Alabama Lawmaker Calls for Keeping Teacher Pay Low Out of ‘Biblical Principle’
- Posted on February 4, 2012 at 12:57pm by
Madeleine Morgenstern
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Alabama State Sen. Shadrack McGill (Image source: Times-Journal)
An Alabama state senator made headlines this week when he said teacher pay should not be raised out of “biblical principle.”
“Teachers need to make the money that they need to make. There needs to be a balance there,” State Sen. Shadrack McGill said during a prayer breakfast Monday, the Dekalb County Times-Journal reported. “It’s a biblical principle. If you double a teacher’s pay scale, you‘ll attract people who aren’t called to teach.”
McGill, a Republican, continued, “And these teachers that are called to teach, regardless of the pay scale, they would teach. It’s just in them to do. It‘s the ability that God give ’em.”
His comments came in response to a question about a legislative pay hike passed by his predecessors in 2007. According to the Times-Journal, McGill defended the raise — which increased his salary as a part-time legislator 62 percent to $49,500 — by saying that paying lawmakers more makes them less tempted to take bribes.
“There are also some teachers, it wouldn’t matter how much you would pay them, they would still perform to the same capacity,” he said. “If you don’t keep that in balance, you’re going to attract people who are not called, who don’t need to be teaching our children. So, everything has a balance.”
After his remarks gained national attention, McGill attempted to clarify them, saying he had been misunderstood.
“My reference to biblical principle was in reference to things being in balance,” McGill told the Times-Journal Friday. “I apologize that people took that to mean that I was saying that not getting teachers a raise was biblical principle. I have said many times that I hope to see teachers getting at least a cost-of-living raise soon.”
That didn‘t stop Alabama Democrats from reacting strongly to McGill’s comments, with state Democratic Chairman Mark Kennedy saying he was “stunned” that McGill “would use biblical teachings as an excuse to attack public teachers’ salaries.”
“Apparently a pay raise in exchange for ‘raising someone’s child for eight hours a day,’ as he puts it, might draw wicked people into our schools…but somehow a 62 percent raise is supposed to keep wicked people out of our legislature,” Kennedy told Alabama ABC affiliate WAAY-TV.
“Maybe the Senator could offer me some remedial Sunday school classes,” he continued. “But I wasn’t aware ‘you cannot serve both God and money’ only applied to public school teachers. I don’t think educators are the only ones who need to be called to serve, and Senator McGill’s lack of faith in his colleagues isn’t doing much to inspire confidence in his abilities as a legislator.”
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Comments (116)
BlasberryStrat
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 4:12pmHey, if Obama is going to play the “Religious Card” in is campaign, then it’s fair game for EVERYONE else, right Occupiers? (“This is what democracy looks like”)
Report Post »I grew up inside the “education world”, with father & uncle as School Superintendents, brother as a Teacher, grandmother as a Teacher, etc. I base my life along the values that I watched my father live by and put in to his schools. And growing up I watched as Teachers would come to our house and talk with dad about their “love for teaching and children”. THOSE my friends….where “Teachers”. What I see (close up) now days is that although there still is a pocket of “real” Teachers (that have my highest respect), mostly there is a bunch of whiny – self absorbed “wannabe’s“ that while in their senior year ”thought” being a teacher was a great career choice, but got in the “real world” and now understand that they DON’T get “their way”, DON’T get to have “tons of time off” while expecting the same income as a Lawyer, and find that they actually have to CARE about the children, community, and “teaching”. REAL teachers feel they have had a “calling” to do so, and follow the guidelines of the School Board and constantly hone their values in life. All of the wannabe – whiners need to just lick their wounds and get far away from a job that they thought was going to be a “breeze”, and go back to living in their parents basement while “blogging about how ‘unfair’ they were treated”. Picket
Flashdancer
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 6:46pmI can’t wait until the election is over. It happens everytime. Things are bad, distract them with the ineffective schools largely in inner cities. But wait what does the research say? Schools should not excede 500 students with 400 being optimal? Let’s build another mega-shool and that should solve things! Better yet have people who are not experts in the field make the decisions regarding how we run our schools! BRILLIANT! Do away with school boards and teachers do not need unions. Don’t take what happens in New York and say most schools operate like that. Then this mental giant unleashes on who and who not should make money. WOW. Maybe our elected officials should make no more than our soldiers! We should not elect them if we can’t trust them so his temptation argument is full of holes. If you want to improve education you have to do away with the “there ought to be a law” mentality. Private schools and Charter schools are releived of regulations that bog down the public education system. If you want the best teachers possible you have to pay professional salaries based on education and experience. If not, nothing will change. It give us something to be distracted by during the next election. As it is now a large majority of teachers are women who percieve teaching as a good job to help supplement their husbands salaries. Been in it to long to buy the BS. We will still be here tomorrow doing the best we can do with the new regulations some dip has passed through.
Report Post »AFeatherAdrift
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 3:48pmAnnieOakley: Dear the gunpowder has obviously addled your brain, should you have one. Please please reassure us that you are not procreating. You alone have brought the collective US IQ down a full ten points. Sit in the corner and suck your thumb. You are not bright enough to even nod.
Report Post »gemmeri
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 3:36pmPublic servants should not be paid at all because after all, it’s an honor to serve & they‘ve proven it’s only a part time job anyway & besides there’s no more money!
Report Post »kennebec
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 6:22pmobama wants service employees but as high paid high pensioned pawns for dues to promote fascism
Report Post »2theADDLED
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 8:04pmI agree lose the unions and get more faith based schools where money is not an issue.
Report Post »LIBSALWAYSLIE
Posted on February 6, 2012 at 12:51pmENCINOM, you are clearly mentally impaired, every post by you is just an attempt to statr a fight. You always lie and your posts have no value.
Report Post »JustPeachy
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 3:36pmI don’t care if the man or woman has a D, R, or I beside his/her name:
STOP USING THE BIBLE TO GET WHAT *YOU* WANT!
Better word: MISUSING the Bible to get what you want.
This is just plain stupid.
Here’s another Scripture verse for you, McGill: “Pay a workman his due.”
If someone works for you, pay him fairly–pay her well–in accordance to his/her WORK. Don’t use GOD to be CHEAP or to enhance your political career.
Honestly. This is exactly why the government should be OUT of our education system ALTOGETHER. The government is too STUPID to run it.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 11:41pmIts not the government that is stupid, its Fundie, GOP legislatures that are morons.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 5, 2012 at 3:32amHere’s one for you, Peachy.
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
I don’t see welfare systems in the Bible.
Report Post »LIBSALWAYSLIE
Posted on February 6, 2012 at 12:50pmENCINOM, you are clearly mentally impaired, every post by you is just an attempt to start a fight. You always lie and your posts have no value.
Report Post »gemmeri
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 3:34pmThis has got to be the funniest article I’ve ever scanned… The blatant corruption is so laughable & contemptible that I am moving on to something else. I can only hope they vote that asinine joke out of office or have him recalled. The potential for in-fighting here between the teachers’ union & the state legislators would be something to see & some citizen should sell tickets… Otherwise, it looks like pretty typical government business as usual with all the money going to the politicians. Again.
Report Post »Dancing_In_The_Ruins
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:50pm“Apparently a pay raise in exchange for ‘raising someone’s child for eight hours a day,”
There’s your problem right there, no one should raise you children but you. Teachers shouldn’t act as if they are raising children. Most teachers teach for about 6hrs, less if you count the time the kids are working from books, working on worksheets or when the teacher is otherwise sitting at their desk. Of course they are typically suppost to grade papers at this time. Teachers are very well paided when you consider the amount of holidays, winter and easter breaks, summer vaction, sick leave , vaction time and paid “self improvement” days. All together they work 6hr days for about 8 months.
Report Post »Rob
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 3:15pmI teach and am considered a “good” teacher. I have 37 students in each of five classes. The “bad” teacher teaches the same subject, gets the same pay, and has 16 students per class because that is all she can handle… oh well, it is the system.
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:26pm“According to the Times-Journal, McGill defended the raise — which increased his salary as a part-time legislator 62 percent to $49,500 — by saying that paying lawmakers more makes them less tempted to take bribes.”
==================================================
Also commonly known as EXTORTION!…..
Report Post »2smart
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:22pmHey, this is an honorable profession and should be treated as such, just like all the other honorable professions. You hire good professional people, tell them what you want and expect, pay them a decent wage comensurat with the profession and turn them loose to perform. If they DON’T meet expectations that were outlined at the beginning you get rid of them and hire as previously outlined. The ones that do meet expectations you pat on the back, say “well done” and offer a increase in salary that compliments and hopefully keeps them happy in there current position rather than going to the next district. And, as so many teachers exclaim about loving what they do then this should be enough. There is no need of a teachrs union or other bargaining people involved, it messes the whole process up and leads to our current situation. Possibly my spelling and pronunciation above would be better without the help of a teachers union.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:15pmDid you know: Benjamin Franklin would often give speeches at dinner… and open a Bible, citing text, that he was creating ad hoc… just to see if anyone would catch him… so the founders did not want him working upon the Declaration Of Independence!
Report Post »sweetieboat
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:12pmIt disturbs me when Republicans talk without concerning how it may be understood. It is clear that when you say teachers should not get a raise and a raise is good for you, something is wrong with your ability to reason, and as such, you don’t belong in congress. Sometimes it seems to me that our best politicians are those that cannot be elected; those that have been through hard times and learned the lessons.
Report Post »My daughter is a good teacher, on her evaluation enough good could not have been said about her. The kids respect and love her, when she goes into the community they talk to her and hug her, she has volunteered for the debate team and loves it. She calls me and tells me what great kids they are and the happiness in her voice is undeniable. She taught the profound disabled young adults last year because she did not like how they were being treated. She is compassionate and passionate about teaching young adults how to make decisions. She says parents are not teaching their kids reasoning. As a parent I taught her how to reason and she made many bad decisions, but turned her life around and has the ability to reach those troubled young adults, because she did it.
mrmikejohnson
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:10pmTheir is no relationship between higher teacher pay and better student performance. US teachers are th highest compensated, but US students are falling lower every year.
Report Post »dumbgrunt33
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:52pmAgreed, also the comment that ” ‘raising someone’s child for eight hours a day,’ ” that’s the problem. Teachers think they are “raising” our children, when in fact all they are doing is TEACHING them things. Apparently society needs to go back to have the family the largest role in everything. This is what happens when you have people that don’t care about the outcome.
Report Post »texasbeta
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 3:01pmYou are a moron. Did you even look that statement up? Of course you didn’t…just like a conservative. Whatever you think is fact without even the slightest effort in checking. In fact, US teacher salaries are not even close to being at the top. We are, in fact, 11th. We also log the most hours per year statistically per teacher. There is a direct link between pay and attracting talented teachers. This is idiocy…perfect for this website and its ilk.
Report Post »paleoman
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:10pmRead to your child from day one, makes all the difference.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 5, 2012 at 3:39amMy dad read to me until I was old enough to read. Then he made me read to him. Sadly, in first grade, I was the only one in my reading group.. 3 books ahead of the rest of the class.
Report Post »annieoakley
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:09pmMost teachers don’t teach and are in the classroom to indoctrinate the children with the attitudes of the communist party. They have learned at our universities that this is the best government and will lead to Utopia on earth. Thus, there is no need for Heaven as it is right here on earth. And these teachers cannot teach English, History, Math or Science because all of their time in college was spent drinking to excess, hooking up for sex, and being indoctrinated with worshiping Gaia, Algore, social justice etc. Then, they go to “teach” other younger persons and have children their own. The babies (parents) can’t even be bothered to toilet train their offspring.Toddler then can mean a child from about one year to ” Oh, don’t worry, he’ll train himself when HE IS READY. Some never are ready, look at OWS.
Report Post »AFeatherAdrift
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 3:59pmDear, all that gunpowder has addled what little brain you have. Please please assure us that you are not procreating. Dear, you need to sit in the corner, suck your thumb and think about things you have more familiarity with, like blocks or tinkertoys. Leave the thinking to adults.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 5, 2012 at 3:45amI went back to college when I was 33. Carried a 3.5 GPA until my third year when I met my architectural professor. What a perfect example of our screwed up system. I was in Architectural Graphics, and as with all professors, you get a syllabus. Most times, the syllabus states that cell phones need to be silent or off. Although, this wasn’t a class in graphics, per se as it was a film study class on different architects. No lectures, no discussions, no drawing time. I did notice, however, that at several points during each film, he’d get a phone call on his cell phone. He was a tenured professor.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 5, 2012 at 3:46amIn contrast, my CAD professor was GREAT!
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:44pmAlthough I agree with his premise, I do believe he did not explain it well.
If you go into the teaching profession, you enjoy teaching kids. It does not matter what the pay is as long as you can live comfortably. If you attach high wages right off the bat and not allow teachers to earn the higher wage through hard work and merit, more may enter the educational system just for the money with no heart to teach the kids well. This is what Unions are doing, they are raising wages for bad teachers as well as good teachers. If I were a good teacher and a bad teacher gets paid the same, why should I be a good teacher? What is my incentive to work hard and teach the kids if everyone gets paid the same?
This is the concept that escapes Liberals. Good job = more pay; Bad job = less pay or firing.
Report Post »Robert999
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:35pmMost public school teachers are liberals or Commies using the classrooms to spread their Left Wing lies. They have limited intellectual ability, that‘s why they’re Commies and that‘s why they’re teachers. If they had better qualifications, they wouldn’t be teachers. Don’t pay them more, they aren’t worth it.
Report Post »AFeatherAdrift
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 3:54pmJoin Annie Oakley in the corner. Both of you should organize M & M’s alphabetically.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 5, 2012 at 3:48amFeather’s a lib? How did I guess? Disparaging remarks aside, I mean…
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:30pmHe said politicians should be paid more so they wont take bribes…I think Politicians should NEVER be paid and do it out of public service. Then if they take a bribe shoot them in the head….But I’m a little bias…I hate Politicians.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 5, 2012 at 3:51amLol, how many people do you think will run for ‘public office’ once that insider information ban bill is passed? How many current ‘pubic servants’ will decide not to run, their next election? Oh, I’m on the edge of my seat, waiting for that one. What would be EVEN better, is if they implemented retro-prosecution for all those that profited in the past. Oh, what a glorious say that would be!!
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:25pmThere is an Economic Theory that Wealth & Industry create population centers, which attract the rural populations to a city — but I do not recall where the Biblical Principle is cited in text?
Report Post »TXPilot
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:35pmI believe that a teachers pay should be based on merit. There are too many terrible teachers in this country, as well as some really great ones, and the good ones should be compensated based on their ability and dedication to doing their job well. Tenure, both at the primary school and university level is something that should be eliminated also. There are too many teachers that have ultra-secure jobs with very high pay, based on nothing more than tenure, and that is not right.
Report Post »VApatriot2
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:22pmYou do not devalue our educators. You simply make them qualified to do what they’re getting paid to do. If that relates to a big salary, so be it. They can pay for their own pensions!
Report Post »Watchyer6
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:21pmThe fact that his name is “Shadrack” is about all you need to know about this guy.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:36pmHey, that was a prominent name since the 1700′s. It is an unusual name, but I had several relatives dating back in the mid to late 1800′s, who served as judicial grand jurors for the state of North Carolina and Kentucky. So eluding that his name attributes to his IQ is downright ridiculous and uncalled for.
So give us your first name so we can make fun?
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:16pmHere we go again.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:05pmHey MOD, attempting at answering your question. I’ll give you my thoughts. Be gentle on me because it’s a difficult one to answer. But, before that, I wasn’t suggesting (although I saw Billy did) that you copy and paste. Rather, I was saying that I couldn’t quote you verbatim on why I commented “you hate Christianity” because I don’t have your other posts. It was more from my memory (which isn’t the greatest lol) and my sense from reading your words. I was trying to tell you that I couldn’t quote your exact words that led me to say what I did. I hope that helps.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:21pmAs to why I believe God creates life even though He knows what will occur. I actually don’t intend to use Scripture. But here’s how I view it. First, I do believe God creates all life. But He also gives us free will. When He creates a life within a woman that she subsequently murders (sorry I just can’t term it anything else), I do believe God knows the woman will make that decision since I believe He is all-knowing. How is the woman’s free will decision to end that life any different than a murder that takes place when a child is 5 or 10 or a grown adult? The question becomes…….what value did that life that was created have? All life has a purpose so what was the purpose of that precious life. For that, I believe the answer will vary depending on the people involved.
As for me, I lost a brother and a dear friend when they were too young in my mind. Both had tremendous impact in my life and I am grateful for their time here on earth.
More in a moment.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:37pmAnother way I view it is as a reflection of our decline as a society. I do consider the wars, bloodshed and entire wiping out of peoples from the OT……especially since I’ve just re-read that part of the Bible. That is some tough stuff. But I see His overall plan in it (to the best of my ability). Far too much to go into here. But I mention it because it taught us to value human life. What kind of society have we become 2,500 to 3,000 years since the OT if our society makes the decision to murder babies in the womb? Where does it go from here?
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:45pmI’m not sure if this will come across correctly but (forgive the Scripture reference) for my life I consider the words of the apostle Paul “to live is Christ, to die is gain”. I surely do not have a death wish. But I do view heaven as my ultimate home and I truly look forward to going there. So, while I do believe we should value human life on earth, inside or outside of the womb, I consider those dear aborted babies as having returned to heaven. I surely don’t believe it is right to end their life but I do believe they are in heaven.
Therein lies my meager attempt at answering your question.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:53pmOh….it looks like you are on the other thread. I’ll go over there. :-)
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:54pmWell I appreciate your answer, and I’m glad I actually came here to see if anybody commented on my post because I was looking for your answer in the topic lol.
And I understand where you are coming from but it leaves a lot of holes which even you admit. I understand that sometimes people say, “Well I don’t know how “X” works, but I have to trust God.” or when people say, “There are somethings that are beyond human understanding” but you also have to understand that to someone who doesn’t believe in a God, that sounds like a major cop out.
If God is all knowing, all loving, and values every human life, then he should simply not give babies to women who he knows will get an abortion. Our free will is irrelevant because he is still giving that baby to that woman This is something where you and me will just view it differently. I once thought like you did, but I eventually went away from that thinking because it has too many holes in my mind.
The Old Testament is filled with theft, rape and genocide(sorry to use such terms, but I don’t think you would disagree). What’s worse is that it was Godly ordained where I believe you had Moses telling people invade a land, kill all the men, boys and women who weren’t virgins, but to keep the virgin girls for some reason. What you’re saying then is that all of those things are okay…..as long as they’re ordained by God, which I think calls into question your God’s “goodness.” Again, we probably won’t agr
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 3:01pmThe way I sometimes view how Christianity was formed was people of that time looked at the God of the OT and said, “Man this God is a jerk” and saw a lot of the laws that Jews had to “abide by.”
So they then started believing in a Jesus. There may have been a Jew at that time wondering around making a bunch of claims about being the son of God, but also being God(or they would be breaking the 1st commandment). They made Jesus as a person, awesome, kind gentle, etc but by tying themselves down the OT, they tie Jesus into some of the absolute backwards teachings that the OT had. I won‘t go into how I view Jesus being crucified as you’ve probably already seen it and even if you haven’t, it’s irrelevant.
But you have Presidential candidates(Santorum) talking about how “God gave us this land.” Well I mean, we “discovered” this land, which already had people on it so it brings into question why we use the word “discover” and then we killed the people and took the land, and then killed more people to take more land. So if we’re saying that God gave us this land to do whatever, you are then saying God ordained how we got this land, which is through murder. I am only calling into questions God’s role in how we attained this land, not how we got this land.
Again, it usually comes back to religious people thinking, “well God is good so there‘s no way that’s true” and I’m fine with that answer, but it doesn’t provide evidence for your claims. Be we
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 3:06pmBe well
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 4:16pmI am through 30 mins of the video and it’s interesting. I just waned to go through some of my “issues” so far.
I would say that the same reason he chooses to believe in the Bible is the same reason every religion chooses to believe in their book. Some historical evidence, some prophecy and that it’s a divine word.
Historical evidence(ie Some name is mentioned, some place is mentioned, some event happened) doesn’t then lend credence to supernatural claims. All religions have prophecy, and prophecy by definition means predicting something, then something happens. The only problem is, once you make a prediction, you, or other people you know, or other people who have heard what you said, can then actively try to fulfill that prophecy, so a prophecy can easily be fulfilled by anybody who is willing to go through what the prophecy said to make it full. And finally saying it’s a divine word, doesn‘t give proof that it’s a divine word. Lastly, when talking about “if there were digs that proved Christianity wrong, we would have heard about it.” There has been (evolution), but people either reject it, or conform it to their beliefs.
Secondly, he misunderstands the argument against him. We‘re not saying you’re defending the Bible, but he’s using the Bible to defend his point. If the Bible holds no divine power to me, it is irrelevant to me what it says. Do you care what the Quran says about life, death, hell? etc no of course not.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 4:20pmLastly, when he talks about eye witnesses and it’s all the same.
In the NT itself, I believe Matthew and Luke talk about the birth of Jesus but Mark and John don’t. Why is that? Surely the birth of your savior is worth even a mention in the book? Also, he talks about eye witnesses and alibi‘s and how a guy in wouldn’t be in jail if his alibi came through, etc.
Well, alibi’s and eye witnesses can lie and be under a misapprehension. When forming the Bible, they left out certain things, is that so they could get a coherent story that is all somewhat the same? So that would be similar to have 40 people witness a car crash, 30 people say one thing happened, 10 people witness another thing happened so what do you do? That’s right, ignore the statements of the 10 people and say that everything the 30 people said is completely true and without fault.
Anyways, I’ll get back to the video.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 4:55pmVery interesting video, made some solid points and not so solid points. I enjoy hearing the other side of the argument, which is why I try to go across the aisle and see where other people are coming from. I read books on atheism and not too long ago read the book by Francis S. Collins called, “The language of God.”
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 5, 2012 at 4:01am@Mod:
Report Post »There’s really only one thing you need to understand, when attributing something to God as being ‘good’. That is the fact that God’s ways are not our ways. We attribute whatever connotation we have been taught to the word ‘good’, so that is your only comprehension. The people that God said had to die in the OT were people that were sacrificing their children to Baal and Molech. God‘s people were never sent to just ’wipe out’ a nation on a whim.
copatriots
Posted on February 5, 2012 at 11:06amHey Mod. Going through your responses and considering continuing dialog. But, here’s my problem. I am not clear on your intent. I am happy to explain my faith and answers I found to the numerous questions that seem to resemble ones you are asking. You commented above that why “this book” in lieu of others. It was that this one is the only one that truly answered all of my major questions. Did I find all of the answers? No. And thankfully. But no other religion could even come close.
When I see a comment like this from you, it makes me wonder at your genuine level of “reaching across the aisle” or sitting it judgment just waiting for anyone (including me) to make a mistake. We are imperfect humans. Alternatively, you don’t possess a set of standards one can judge. Should we start saying when we see you mock, condemn, judge “how atheistic of you?”
“In such a rush to condemn someone to hell, and to show joy at it for that matter. How Christ-like of you.”
Report Post »When I see this type of comment from you
copatriots
Posted on February 5, 2012 at 11:29amI have questions for you as I’m considering yours:
You said that you don’t know if God exists. Why do you consider yourself as atheist instead of agnostic?
Much of your logic seems to be the struggle of good versus evil. You seem to be questioning that if God is good then why does He allow all of the bad. From the OT wiping out of people to abortions to America’s acquiring this country. That really isn’t as much of a question nor requires a response. It’s more an observation that you may want to reflect further on or research further for your own personal development if you are at all interested in pursuing. I just found it consistent in your responses.
Are we in agreement of the Founding Fathers firm reliance on God? What benefits do you see from America’s Judeo-Christian rich history?
How do you reconcile the fact that mankind never does improve morally? This is the main reason why I reject Buddhism. Good teachings for daily living but not a shred of evidence that mankind or society ever improve. In fact…..just the opposite, as the Bible shows repeatedly and speaks of at the end times. It will be every bit as bad as Sodom and Gomorrah. Do you find that interesting that 2,500 the Bible said mankind would never improve morally?
Scratching the surface on my questions for you.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 11:34amAlso, Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Revelation all speak of STUNNING prophecies. In Daniel for example, many have been fulfilled concerning the empires that followed. But, Revelation speaks of at the end times a one world government, one language and one currency among many other predictions. Do you find that curious as you reflect on today’s world?
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 11:52am@COPATRIOTS
The only intent I have is to have a conservation based around logic. If you want to question what I think, the same way I question you then I am all for it and will try to answer your question to the best of my ability. What questions of yours did the Bible answer?
When I say, “how Christ-like of you” I am speaking to that specific person who I think is doing a bad job of representing their savior. It usually comes down to when they see someone mocking their belief, instead of saying, “I will pray for him.” or any other peaceful answer. Instead, they’re so quick to make some kind of comment about going to hell, or that he deserves it and that they’ll be laughing from Heaven while Maher is in hell. Does every Christian speak this way? No of course not but there are quite a few people that are eager to assume someone is going to be in hell.
I know no one is perfect and don’t wait for you to make a mistake. What I would like is that if I present a logical argument, you acknowledge it and then boil your faith into God into just that “faith.” I don’t care if people believe in Jesus, Zeus, Allah or anything. Just please don‘t come at me saying that it’s all true and that I should think like you. I don’t think there is a God, but I don’t have undeniable proof, and I make that clear in every discussion I have. Religion views their book as 100% true and nothing will get them to change their mind. That’s not reasonable.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 11:52amStarting a response on your questions as time permits.
I don‘t view ’the holes’ as you term them sufficient to discredit the entirety of the argument for God. You don‘t like to hear that there are things we can’t answer. Nor that those who have walked in His ways for years do learn more of His character. That He IS good and true and righteous. Those aren’t merely cop-out answers. When you seek Him, you do find Him…..and even more than you expect. Why do you think so many Christians answer in that way? It isn’t a cop-out, MOD. It is a genuine relationship that is thrilling and mysterious and full of love and truth. I am sadder for people who don‘t find life’s answers because of their pride, disinterest or lack of genuine pursuit. God gives meaning to life that is incomparable. But it is one’s choice to live the way they see fit.
In your answer above, you note that you reject God because He doesn’t operate the way you think He should. To that I say Praise Him! I know myself……..and I surely wouldn’t want God operating the way I think He should. I might do some good in my life and think good thoughts but deep down I know my true nature. All have lied, stolen or have impure thoughts or desires.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 11:58amHey….Good Morning :-)
As to the wiping out of peoples that God ordained. KADAMS touched on it. But I will add that God was using the history of the Israelites as His chosen people as a model for later generations. Those that were wiped out were sacrificing their children by burning. They were worshipping Baal. Coincidentally, you can watch the GBTV clip explaining Baal worship that The Blaze posted a couple days ago. Pure evil. Sadly, as human nature goes, the Israelites adopted many of the neighboring tribes idol worship over the years. Again, I ask you…..if they Bible weren’t falsified, why wouldn’t the Israelites have edited that part out? But, nope, we get the good, bad and ugly parts. The Israelites couldn’t even make it to the Promised Land without breaking the laws.
Sadly, we see the same evil prevailing today. How far away are we from pedophilia, bestiality and euthanasia as a culture? Where do you see all of this heading?
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 12:00pmAlright……must go for now. I’ll catch you another time. I really want to address Jesus fulfilling the OT prophecies because it surely wasn’t that “this God is a jerk”. The Jews surely didn’t expect what they got in Jesus. Again, I find that wonderful!
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 12:03pmAny atheist who is honest with themselves will say, “I don’t think there is a God, but I can‘t give undeniable proof that there isn’t a God.” Atheism is simply, “You haven’t given me sufficient evidence to think a God exists, much less your specific God.” You are an atheist when it comes to Islam, Buddhism, Zeus, etc, I just don’t think there is any God. Since I can’t prove without a shadow of a doubt my position, the only rational point I can stand on is that while I don’t think there is a God, I could be wrong. This is a position most religious people refuse to stand on. Even Christopher Hitchens, a well known Atheist said, “None of us can prove that this all isn’t some grand design.” The fact is, I can‘t prove a God doesn’t exist, and you can’t prove a God does exist.
My question doesn’t come down to good vs evil. It comes down to religions thinking their God is good no matter what their Bible says. By saying the heavenly ordained theft, rape and genocide that occurs in the OT was necessary, you are then saying that those evil acts are okay…as long as they come from God. I don‘t think that’s a good God.
I don’t disagree that there were some of our founding fathers that were Christians, probably even a majority and I don’t have a problem with that despite the fact that they never mention Jesus in the Constitution , etc. What I don’t agree on is that they came here to found a Christian nation that should be governed by the Bible.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 12:04pmSorry…..I’m a bit distracted this morning. Not much proofing taking place.
“If the Bible WERE falsified” among many other corrections in my posts above.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 12:15pmAs to where you say that mankind never improves morally, I would argue what you mean?
We are getting more moral if you compare to the history of mankind. Are we perfect? no, but no one ever said we are. I don‘t see how you can say there is no shred of evidence that we haven’t improved morally, but that might just be your beliefs kicking in and you that humans are born evil and need Jesus to be saved.
I would then ask you about your morality. I don’t intend to offend, but I have made this argument on here before, but in case you haven’t seen it, I will now.
You believe that Jesus, that was both God and man, had to be crucified to die for your sins. How is that moral thinking? If given the chance to go back and stop Jesus from getting murdered, you would choose NOT to do it, right? How is that moral? Abraham attempted to sacrifice his son because he thought God told him to and he wanted to obey God. Yes God stopped him,but that is irrelevant, the fact is Abraham thought it was in God’s character to sacrifice his son. How is that moral?
We are a society that is improving every generation from slavery, to women’s right, to civil rights. I love my Grandma, but she is 91 and is an out and out racist. I am not, how is that not more moral? My parents didn’t raise me in a religious household. How can you explain that for the first time in almost ever, more than 50% of people think abortion is wrong? Isn’t that more moral?
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 12:27pmI’m not looking at holes trying to disprove anything, just showing where I disagree.
I agree there are things we can’t answer, and there are things that we can answer that we are likely wrong on. It is religions inability to admit that they may be wrong which is frustrating. You have to realize that those answers SEEM like cop outs.
Especially when people talk about their God being all loving, all powerful, etc and then I show them examples from their own Bible or from experience, or logic that God ISN’T exhibiting those traits, I get a “well God is mysterious” or “we can’t explain everything.” Similar to
A. Something Good happens
B. God is good, praise God, God rewards his followers, etc
A. Something bad Happens
B. God works in mysterious ways, who are we to understand God’s will, etc
Well wait a minute, in the first scenario, you are saying you understand God, and now you’re asking how we are supposed to understand God? I just seek for consistency but no matter what is said, religion always think their God is good and seeks rationalizations or ignorance for bad things.
I’m sad that you can look at all the hatred, anger, despair in the world and say, “yeah an all powerful, all knowing God created this, but we messed it up.” Going by logic, the same all knowing God created us knowing that we would eat the apple, and introduce sin into the world. Either that or your God isn’t all knowing. No offense intended, just showing you my thi
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 4:55pmI wanted the same answers most thinking people ask…..the basic of questions. Where did I come from? Where did everything come from? Where do we go? What is our purpose? Why do I of all beings have mind, logic, reason, feelings, etc? Why do we have body and seemingly eternal spirit?
Honestly, I find it difficult for anyone to believe in evolution. Have you fully researched that and not found it wanting?
Are you familiar with the intent to remove God from our society to overtake it? Do you ever wonder why?
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 5:01pmHere’s a morality question…..what do you think should be done when an adult man rapes and murders a child?
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 5:07pmFor what it’s worth, I am not at all an atheist to Islam. I do think there is a god behind their worship. As for the Quran, it was indeed written by one evil and corrupt man. The writings in it are easily understood and discredited.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 5:21pmMy heart goes out to you for desiring logic to find the answers. I understand that more than you know. From experience, I will tell you……from that approach you will never receive the answers to suit you. What part does your heart play if only logic is involved? I can and do study the Bible from cover to cover and am truly amazed at what I find there. But nothing is more precious than letting the truth seep to my heart and soul.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 5:31pmWe do disagree concerning the Founding Fathers. Why did the “pilgrims’ come across on the Mayflower to begin with? The history of Jamestown speaks to the early settlers learning from native Americans. I encourage you to read Ira Stoll’s book about Samuel Adams. Also, read the letters written from that time. They surely relied on their faith and likened America’s founding to that of Israel escaping Egypt. The Bible was taught in schools in this country.
As to decline of morality, America is the perfect example. I can look at the last 40 years as we remove God from our schools, government and culture. Do you not see the downward immoral trend at the exact same time in history?
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 5:41pmI’m not sure that anyone would suggest the founders wanted to form a Christian nation or be governed by the Bible. There were denominations among the States at that point in time. They felt that states themselves could establish a religion but the agreement to unify the States precluded an agreement for all to follow the same denomination.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 5:50pmCan’t imagine how you possibly think mankind is becoming more moral. WWII hasn’t been all that long ago. Really interested in your perspective of how you think society is more moral. You said you don’t think abortion is correct. The ones we know about in America alone is 53 million since Roe v. Wade. I shudder when I think about China.
One seriously can look at how quickly people devolve just by looking at the Occupy crowd.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 6:07pmJust got to your last and more personal arguments. I’m not bailing on those…..just out of time for now. Be back later.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 6:39pmSorry MOD, I don‘t think I’m addressing everything in the order you are asking it. I assure you I am not dodging answers. I’m just responding as they hit me. FWIW, I will be the first to tell you that there is much that is unprovable and based on faith and faith alone. But, then again, there is much that you won’t entertain in logical consideration that I would say would deem God provable. I did physically receive the Holy Spirit at baptism. I truly never expected or even conceived it….but it, in fact and without doubt, did happen. There are other physical manifestations I could speak to but I know none will matter. Hearsay is only worth so much to a logic-oriented person……that is surely no reflection on you, I know of what I speak in that regard.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 7:10pmI am re-reading your thoughts about God giving us this land. Again, I am struck with your concept of good versus evil. I mean that in all sincerity because I think you may not be taking it that way. You seem to have a genuine sense of goodness. And yet there is un-goodness (forgive the word) in people. What do you do with that?
As much as I abhor the eventual treatment of the native Americans, I also see what many did to accommodate the culture. I have personally seen the compensation the U.S. govt still pays tribe members who can prove their tribal ancestors.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 7:24pmYour personal comments as to morality. You use your views versus your grandmother’s on racism and over 50% against abortion. YIKES! First of all, good for you. Surely, people can make wise choices without God. I know this one because I surely wasn’t raised in a religious home.
But 50% of Americans being anti-abortion is certainly not a valid argument. I am certainly glad for those result but I would suggest that in 1960, 90% + of Americans were anti-abortion. The greater question is……how did abortion even become legal in this country?
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 7:33pmAs to my morality being a gauge, all I can say to that is…….put your trust in no person. For example, I have a lot of respect for Tim Tebow. But, I am extremely cautious of the media attention over him. He is still a man and has human frailty. I do think he is living out his faith as many should and I applaud his faith walk. But, he isn’t perfect. The media seems to be licking their chops waiting for him to fail.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 7:36pmOkay…..out for now. Take care until the next time.
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 11:48pmIn regards to evolution. I think it is an acceptable theory as to how human beings came to be. Do more links still need to be found? Yes. Am I so stubborn and so fully “believe” in evolution that if proven wrong I will refuse to accept the evidence that refutes it? No
Plus, you give no evidence to why you think a belief in a specific God answers those questions. You are going by the Bible, which says it’s true(how convenient) and everything else you leave it up to “belief.”
I think the man who rapes and murders a child should be put to death.
Let me ask you a scenario, for this sake please assume everything that I say is correct.
Person A : Evil guy, murders, rapes does very horrible things. On his death bed, accept Jesus Christ as his lord and savior
Person B : Great guy, helps people out because he likes to, great father, just all around great human being. During his lifetime he never accepts Jesus Christ and dies a non-believer.
According to your book, which guy gets an eternity in Heaven, which guy gets an eternity of torture in hell?
If you are to say that guy A goes to Heaven and guy B goes to hell, I would ask you how any moral person could accept that answer, and how any all loving God would come to that conclusion.
If you believe Islam has a God, then you believe in polytheism not monotheism. Christianity is a monotheistic religion by definition, “ is the belief in the existence of one god or in the oneness of God”
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Posted on February 5, 2012 at 11:58pmMy heart pumps oxygenated blood throughout my body. My heart doesn’t search for answers, my brain does.
They came here so they could practice their religion freely, not establish a Christian nation. While there were definitely writings in favor of Christianity, there are also writings against Christianity.
How are you saying we are removing God from our Government? The congress and Senate just passed a resolution to keep the official US motto, “In God We Trust” and it passed with overwhelming support(great use of time given the economy).
We constantly have politicians talking about God, some even want to use prayer and scripture to create public policy. Cain, Perry and Bachmann all said God told them to run(I can get you the quotes if you want, it wasn’t the MSM). Have you seen an open Atheist run for President? Hell no, they would get ZERO support.
There is a correlation to many things as to why we are struggling. One could argue the feminist movement in the 60s hurt our culture. Women who were home makers, now started going out into the workplace, meaning kids were left alone after school or with a baby sitter.
You could look at the continual wars we fight, which sometimes leave kids without a father figure for years(especially if the father dies in war).
If you look at how consumerism has taken over our country, in that people keep needing the next best thing, that both parents have to work two jobs to maintain the lifestyle they want.
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 12:06amHow can you say we haven’t gotten MORE moral?
Look at the Bible. Moses told followers to go into town, kill all of the men, women, boys, but keep the virgins for later use.
That is generally NOT accepted anymore. There still may be evil people out there that will do that, but when it does, you hear an outcry from civilized people saying that it’s wrong, and the transgressors get prosecuted. Look at the uproar over US soldiers urinating on dead Taliban members, and how much of a mess it caused.
Any personal thing you claim to have, proves God to you, it doesn’t prove God to me. I can’t accept a God based on what personal things he has done for you.
The way people become “more good” is by coming together as a people and deciding on what we view is good.
Not too long ago, black people couldn’t vote. Not too long ago, women weren’t treated as equal.
Here’s a situation.
You say Christians came to this land, and I don’t disagree. Well then Christians came to this land, not viewing women as equal(which the Bible is explicit in) and having slaves(which again the Bible is okay with).
If we have become a less Christian society, but have made women equal to men and don’t have slaves, then where did that morality come from? Certainly not the Christian faith, because those institutions of inequality were prevalent in our society. You then have to argue, by making women equal to men, and no longer having slaves, we are losing Christian values.
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 12:16amExactly, we have decided, as people that if we have any hope at ever making any kind of amends for what we did, the best thing we can do(besides giving the land back) is pay them money and land.
Give me some real stats about abortion in the 60s, I won’t accept your “suggestion” as fact. They said that it is over 50% for the first time in a while, which means it’s going BACK up. If we are becoming a less Christian nation, then should that number should be FALLING.
I don‘t trust any one person and I don’t know where you got that I do. I am always questioning everything and am an independent person. I am weary of anybody who says, “You have to believe in me” which is why I would be weary about Jesus in his time lol.
When I read a book about science, specifically evolution, or the big bang theory or space I don’t read it and go, “wow this is all true, and anything that contradicts it is wrong.”
I view it as, “okay this is how we understand this subject now, but it could be proven wrong and if proven wrong, I will no longer think this.”
It seems you read the Bible as, “This is all true, because the book says it’s true and I am not open to new evidence that is contrary to what this book says.“ or ”If evidence that is contrary to my Bible and factual, I will then rationalize my Bible to this new information.”
I noticed you didn’t answer my question on how someone who is moral, wouldn’t go back and save Jesus from being crucified. May I as
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 11:39amAlright MOD, our time is coming to an end on this discussion. I don’tI have much more I can add. Your walk and line of reasoning is your own. Bottom line……..it boils down to the Book I believe that you don’t. Interestingly, the same way you “believe” in evolution (also convenient) takes more faith than the words of the Bible written so very long ago. How in the world would they have known to start the Bible with those very words? “Let there be light”. Biblical creation is every bit as convincing as any proof you have for evolution but you summarily discount it where I find it most worthy for pursuing great knowledge.
Your answer to the morality question is that you believe the rapist/murderer should be put to death. I don’t disagree….in my humanity, I think he deserves murder. To God who is the perfect Judge, He views our sin the same way. We deserve death because we are all sinners. That is exactly the point of the animal sacrifice in the OT and the reason for Jesus’ death in the NT. But, you know all this MOD from other poster so I don’t think I am adding anything here.
I didn’t intentionally not answer your hypothetical. I can‘t go back to the time of Jesus’ death. I imagine I would be like Peter and want to save Jesus from death. But, ultimately, God’s purposes would prevail as they did. If I understood what purpose was served in eternity for His death, I would hate it but would understand it’s necessity and likely not try to
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 11:50amthe end of that was…….I would not try to prevent it. Likewise with Abraham, it was a test of faith for Abraham’s benefit and blessing. It was also a foreshadowing of God giving His only son as the means for our restoration to Him.
Yep, your A & B scenario is accurate. Because it is about accepting Jesus for that restoration to a Holy and Righteous Judge. God knows the intent of the person in A and the sincerity of reliance and acceptance.
No, I don’t believe in polytheism. My point was that satan exists. He is no God but wants to be….again this is in the Bible that you wholly reject. Satan is certainly the “god” or idol behind Islam which is why approx 700 years after Christ we have the negative polar opposite of the Bible advanced by Mohammed. I also find it fascinating (and equally frightening) that 2,000 years after it was written that the “religion” on the anti-Christ is being advanced as it was written. As an intellectual, how do you find no interest in researching that?
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 12:09pmMOD, you seem to believe the statistics and learning of liberal colleges or websites whereas I read original sources. How can I possibly provide you with abortion statistics prior to Roe v. Wade when abortion wasn‘t legal and statistics weren’t kept? You don‘t seem to consider the liberal agenda that has infiltrated this country since the 1960’s overtaking education, government, unions, etc. You also don’t seem to want to recognize the truth of the Alinsky-model that Obama taught and for which he is the figure-head. Did you vote for him? Will you again in the coming election?
Given the talking points in the rest of you communication, I see where we are at polar opposites and I can only re-state to you what others have said. And, no absolutely not, that doesn‘t mean I’m close-minded. It’s just that I have researched, asked and answered with an open-mind the questions to which you are clearly close-minded. I do continue to learn and hopefully will to my dying day…..not the least of which is material about this country’s history and how we got to where we are today. But, the fundamental questions which you reject have long been resolved for me. Every single thing I have read since then only validates my decision.
Meanwhile, it’s my Bible study and devotional time. All the best to you.
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 2:19pm@Patriots
I will make this short and sweet as you seem uninterested in continuing this.
I don’t “believe” in evolution. It is a generally accepted theory that has interesting evidence to support it. If something comes along and completely debunks evolution, I will no longer think that way and will search for the correct answer.
Can you say the same thing about Christianity? I think not
How is Biblical creation has no proof. It has a book that says how the universe came to be, and all the book is true, because the book says it’s true and anything that refutes it is wrong and should be ignored.
I‘m sorry that you wouldn’t try to stop a human sacrifice that you thought was “necessary”. I hope one day you realize how immoral that thinking is.
Your God sending the murderer and rapists to Heaven and the good man to Hell tells me all I need to know about your God. He may exists, but if he thinks like that, he is certainly not good or righteous. This is something that we just won’t agree on.
If you believe there is a God behind Islam, then you are a polytheist. You should instead be saying that they are following a false prophet or human who was completely insane. Not a “God.”
Prophecies can be controlled to happen. How is Islam being advanced? We have a whole country here who hates Muslims, lol.
You gave ZERO evidence as to me accepting stats or teachings of liberal websites, and that you have “original sources” so please don’t mak
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 2:27pmIf you can provide statistics about abortion, then don’t make the claim that you would “suggest” what the percentage was against abortion at that time.
You can’t make a claim, then back it up with no evidence, but still want your claim to be considered true. That was my point.
I never talked about Obama so I don’t know where this is coming from. I never said I don‘t think there aren’t Alinsky tactics at work so again, I don’t know where this is coming from. I voted against Obama in 2008 and won’t vote for him in 2012, but that doesn’t mean the republicans have my vote in the bag. It is these religious zealots who say they want to consult prayer and scripture and comport civil law with a higher law that turns me away from the Republican party.
I am a fiscal conservative, probably more than most, but have some liberal thoughts and ideas when it comes to gay marriage and religion in our schools. I think it‘s a shame our political affiliations come down to R or D and most people don’t go outside of those designations when voting.
Both sides can’t agree on much, but they both agree there shouldn’t be a 3rd party….why is that?
You ignored my claim that if we are becoming a less Christian society, and we derive our morals from Christianity, that the number of people against abortion is RISING. You also ignored my points about feminism, civil rights and equality in regards to becoming a less Christian society, but passing equality laws.
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 2:33pmUntil you answer those claims, I will assume you don‘t have an answer or simply can’t answer those questions.
That’s okay, and I hope you keep doing research and finding out what you think and why you think that.
How much research do you do of the world outside of the Bible?
Yes, you are right, you have asked, researched and answered those questions, but what you fail to realize is………….answers can be wrong.
I have asked, researched and answered those questions, the difference is, I realize that I can be wrong when it comes to those answers. If those answers are proven wrong, I will no longer think those are correct answers.
Can you make the same claim? Until you make that realization, you can’t claim to be open-minded, you just can’t.
I’ve said my peace. Be well.
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 4:13pmThe conversation seems pointless to continue because it has become nothing more than intellectual arguing serving no real purpose. There are enough words above for us to know we will agree to disagree. I honestly don’t understand why you would even want further dialog. You can argue your point which you do effectively but it would have no impact. If my extensive reading and searching only increased my faith, I can assure you that your reasoning would have no impact. And I have stated my case to you. I have made numerous references to why the Bible is worthy of studying that you dismiss. As I said, I can add nothing further that you will find of interest that other posters haven’t already discussed with you. You summarily reject the Bible and consider God not good which makes further discussion pointless.
As to the morality declining and using the examples you have, how do you consider abolishing slavery, women’s rights, et al as not having foundations in a Christian nation? I asked the benefit of living under in a Judeo-Christian influenced culture to which you want to extend no credit. As to the decline over the last 40 years and the religious views (including abortion) of the majority of Americans, that is from witnessing our culture over the years. From breaking down the family structure to abortion to accepting gays to removing God from schools, etc. All of which are undeniable. The fact you think we are becoming more moral is stunning.
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 4:28pmWrapping this up, you argument isn’t any different than any other I have read or heard over the years. Nothing that science has given lends any viable evidence against God. As I said before, no one will be able to offer you proof. I do encourage you to study Revelation though in that if what is predicted comes to pass in your lifetime I would think you would want to know. Personally, I would consider that proof. How could one not? Something written 2,000 years ago coming true is pretty darn good evidence in my mind. We are moving to a one world government. Islam is being advanced in this country before your very eyes just as it is in Europe. Again, look at the last 40 years. Surely you can find those statistics of Muslims in this country then versus now. I also recommend the free online movie “Obsession”. BTW, I said “god” with little “g” and then clarified “idol”. I am rather sure that I explained that sufficiently. I said it that way originally as Muslims certainly consider their idol as a god and there is a source behind their worship. Again, Revelation speaks to it. There will be a false prophet but satan is surely behind the evil of that religion.
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Posted on February 6, 2012 at 4:37pmThe Obama reference was a mis-read on my part. Your comments above seem straight from liberal land i.e. consumerism, God not being removed from our government. etc. Sorry but that is where you lost me. Every day we have new movements and headlines pushing “separation of church and state” in some manner or other. If you really think Christianity is not being pushed out of every facet of our government, again, I am stunned. By your admission, it is what you stated you want.
Alright, this has been enlightening and I thank you for sharing your views. I wish you well in your learning and pursuits.
Report Post »applehill
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:13pmEver since I was a kid all I’ve ever heard was teachers are under paid and over worked. If you don‘t like the job and think you’re under paid, find another job.There is too much taxing in Alabama already for ‘Teachers’. Most of it goes to the school board members anyway. They make 100K+ a year
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:26pm“If you don‘t like the job and think you’re under paid, find another job.”
Now that’s just ignorance. Most teachers love the job itself, and are absolutely convinced that they are serving the public good. However, such inadequate compensation for such a difficult job makes life quite difficult for those committed to the profession. Stop whining about how much you are taxed, and give teachers a wage that is commensurate with their contribution to their country.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:48pmWe would Publius, but Democrats won’t let us eliminate the bad teachers. They insist they get the same pay as a good teacher and insist we can’t fire them.
When we try to change this fact, listen to how fast UNIONS whine and teachers protest; then get back to me.
Report Post »Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:57pmMy Father was a teacher in a right to work state.No Teachers union.He loved it.Said the pay was great.The Benefits were great.PLUS he could retire after 21 years.It Beat Digging Ditches,Crawling under Houses,being outside on a 90 degree day,Being shot at(He was former military and a Police man) plus you get lots of time off and A bunch Of Sick days.
Report Post »nightjc
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:10pmI hate to say it, but I think the democrats have it right on this one. Then again, I am a teacher, so I’m bias. This kind of devaluing of educators is rampant in America, and it makes an already difficult career that much harder.
Report Post »ZAP
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:31pmJudging by your results you don’t deserve nuttin !
Report Post »HKS
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:36pmThe best teachers are not teaching just for the money, given they do have to care for themselves and that is a given, the development and knowledge in young people and the future is their reward. I have had a few of them in my lifetime and what an honer it is to know them. The rush of human bonding with young people and their success is almost like a drug. What if mothers and fathers had to be paid for what they do? What do you think they would produce? That’s the human class and dynamics that are in play with teaching. Money brings the undesirables and the unions protect them, soon you have a cesspool at all levels of education, as we do now.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:00pmTell me, if a bad teacher was paid the same as you (assuming you a good teacher) and received raises the same as you, you would be okay with this? What is your incentive for continuing to be a good teacher when bad performance gets rewarded the same as you?
I’m an instructor too, except at the college level. I am part-time, thus no tenure. I can choose not to teach or the school has the right not to renew me for the next semester. I work my patooty off and by the time all is said and done with the amount of hours I put in over the 45 semester hours of the class, I may make an equivalent of $6.00 per hour. Yet if you looked at the rate, 41.00 per semester hour, you’d think I was well compensated. However, I don’t have health insurance or any other benefits except PERA, which is Colorado’s equivalent to a 401K. We are not union and don’t want to be. Colorado ranks 20th for average IQ’s. It is not great, but Colorado is making strides to eliminate poor performing schools, as well as teachers. However, that may artificially increase our average IQ rating the next time around.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:09pm“Apparently a pay raise in exchange for ‘raising someone’s child for eight hours a day,’ as he puts it, might draw wicked people into our schools…but somehow a 62 percent raise is supposed to keep wicked people out of our legislature.”
ZING! There is something indeed sketchy about a politician talking about “balancing” other peoples’ wages while the government constantly increases its own payments through our money. Seem like McGill should be a Democrat instead of a Republican; he’s using leftist language already!
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:07pmGOOD GRIEF!!! It‘s people like this who give OUR PRECIOUS BIBLE it’s bad name. NOT TRUE. Nothing in Bible talks about not paying Teachers… the better verse is the warning about preverting or harming a child..better to pluck out your eye.
THE BIBLE is ONE story of the Glorious GOD who created everything and His Love for us, that (John 3:16) when it became necessary to save us, he sent Jesus. The GREAT ADVENTURE BIBLE study, About the best there is, anwers all your questions, links the various Books together and it makes perfect sense.
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:31pmThey only use the Bible and Constitution when it serves them. They know neither…
Report Post »hi
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 1:04pmI don‘t care about teacher’s pay. Pay them a lot. Just don’t give them pensions.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on February 4, 2012 at 2:04pmThere is nothing wrong with pensions, as long as they contribute a percentage of their pay and/or the state matches up to 6% like 401Ks and corporations do. There should be NO 100% pension with no contributions on their part.
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