Crime

All 9 Bystanders Wounded in Empire State Shooting Were Hit by Police Bullets, Not Gunman’s

All 9 Bystanders Wounded in Empire State Shooting Were Hit by Police Bullets, Not Gunmans

Police said the nine bystanders wounded in Friday's shooting near the Empire State Building were all hit by officers' bullets. (AP)

All nine bystanders wounded in Friday’s shooting near the Empire State Building were hit by bullets fired by police officers, not the gunman they were subduing, the New York Police Department said Saturday.

None of the victims suffered life-threatening injuries; most were graze wounds or were otherwise minor, the Associated Press reported.

According to CNN, the two officers reacting to the gunman fired a total of 16 shots: one officer shot nine and the other shot seven.

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told CNN most of the bystanders were not hit directly by police bullets, but that the officers hit “flowerpots and other objects around, so … their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that’s what caused the wounds.”

Kelly said six of the wounded were treated and released from hospitals by Friday evening while the three others had remained hospitalized.

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg had suggested Friday some of the wounded bystanders may have been accidentally shot by police officers.

Police said gunman Jeffrey Johnson shot and killed a former colleague at the Manhattan offices of the women’s fashion accessories company where Johnson was once employed. He was confronted by the two officers on a busy sidewalk shortly thereafter. Surveillance footage showed Johnson pointed his gun at them and that the officers reacted quickly, firing their weapons at close range.

Comments (277)

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  • cannon12pdr
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:03pm

    The Boys in Blue Gange that couldn’t shoot straight.

    Report Post »  
    • Bill Rowland
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:14pm

      I bet my wife, yesterday, that the wounded were all caused by police shooting – the guy had a .25, you have to be at point blank range to be effective. The Police probably carry .40s and with the adrenaline rush shot way more than they had to.

      OMG Nov 6, 2012

      Report Post »  
    • MeteoricLimbo
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:42pm

      @Bill
      I watched the video, if thats a 25 the guy pulls out of his briefcase its the biggest 25 in the world..looks like a 45 acp to me

      Report Post » MeteoricLimbo  
    • black9897
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:44pm

      Thank God the police were there to project and injure… ..uh..I mean protect and serve.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • doomytram
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:48pm

      The boys in blue lost their virginity to firing their weapons. Couldn’t hit the broadside of City Bus.

      Report Post » doomytram  
    • kenboo1
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:57pm

      You know they talk about taking our high capacity clips away and only allowing the police to have them… Here is a prime example of why they need to take them away from the police. They shoot with impunity and are not responsible enough to hold fire… Plus add to the fact they all are using Close Quarters Combat pistols like a glock and there is no wonder other people got shot. If they carried a more accurate weapon like a revolver, and aimed, one shot one kill.

      Report Post »  
    • The Jewish Avenger
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:02pm

      Anyone notice the mother leaving her kid (in blue) behind? Typical NY attitude?

      Report Post » The Jewish Avenger  
    • nobull14
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:28pm

      It sounds like a lot of law suits coming against NYPD .

      Report Post »  
    • HumbleMan
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:13pm

      You say a .25 cal? …. you’re kidding?

      Report Post » HumbleMan  
    • HumbleMan
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:18pm

      @Kenbo … I’m with you on this. Why is a revolver not the weapon of choice. They don’t jam, are easy to maintain and tend to make you think and care about each shot.

      Report Post » HumbleMan  
    • wynnsjammer
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:57pm

      The New York City Police Department doesn’t consist anymore of people who join to “Protect and Serve”. There mainly joining for something called “Pensions” and “Prestige”. It’s all about “Egos” in this day and age. The Police Department consists of very “Immature” minds who are “Trigger” and “Taser” happy. All they seem to have going for them are there “Badges” which they use to build up there “Self Esteem”. Remember the days when we had Policeman walking the beat with “Batons” and they actually looked quite strong and powerful. Now we have these little “Wimpy” officers coming out of training who really have no clue what is going on and apparently have no clue on how to “Shoot A Gun”. When the going gets tough, you begin to see just how “Inexperienced” the NYC police Dept really is. Not a good thing. I wonder if any of these “Clumsy” cops will be brought up on charges. People in the city aren’t even safe from someone dressed in a blue uniform. Whatever happened to the good old days.

      Report Post »  
    • John 1776
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 6:12pm

      It was a 45acp. Just a typo.

      Saw a CNN blog post saying “Police shouldn’t have guns, it should be like England.” What on earth… Now the gun grabbers are going after the police? Stuff happens and it is unfortunate that this happened on a crowded street, but what were the police suppose to do? Let a murderer walk away and possibly shoot some more people? They probably only had a second to think this out before the guy pulled his gun and took aim.

      Report Post » John 1776  
    • 502_eagle
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 6:25pm

      Jewish Avenger- WOW I didn’t notice that. Thanks for pointing that out.

      Report Post » 502_eagle  
    • SpeckChaser
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 7:00pm

      Humble man

      Why not revolver?

      Because police officers do not want inferior firepower. It suprises you that they don’t choose weapons with 1/3 of the firepower of currently produced handguns?

      Report Post » SpeckChaser  
    • loriann12
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 7:59pm

      Dang, I shoot better than that.

      Report Post »  
    • Fecal_Matters
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 8:29pm

      Talk about loss of situational awareness and use of force continuum!!! Wonder what Mike “the Midget King” Bloomberg and his lover Ray Ray got to say about this? Maybe we need to take the guns away from NYPD, because they shot more civilians than anyone this year.

      Ever since Amadou Bailo Diallo the NYPD has used excessive force and got away with it…Where’s Kuby on this…I hope the victims take Ray Ray to the cleaners for the lack of proper training!

      Report Post » Fecal_Matters  
    • fdmike
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 9:31pm

      Hey kenboo….twenty years ago officers in NYC were using revolvers. Problem was during gun battles, the peeps were able to count to six and knew when the officer needed to reload….and since most of the perps had semi automatics, the tables were tipped in their favor. None of you morons are from NYC I presume. Maybe revolvers work in your little towns, but here officers die in the line of duty quite frequently.

      Report Post »  
    • RobMac03
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 9:33pm

      NYPD carry 9mil only

      Report Post »  
    • EverybodyStayCalm
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 9:58pm

      Sorry Kenb001, a glock is just as accurate as any revolver with the same length barrel. If you do your part, they’ll do their part. Problem is, most people cant shoot for s**t in high stress situations no matter what gun they’re shooting.

      Report Post »  
    • ChiefGeorge
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 10:29pm

      To serve and protect?

      Report Post » ChiefGeorge  
    • WATER-THE-TREE
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 10:36pm

      Keystone cops

      Report Post » WATER-THE-TREE  
    • CK1911
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 10:50pm

      That’s what happens when your mayor, chief of police, or whoever in charge forces officers to carry duty guns with 12lb triggers. Not exactly easy to keep your sights on target while moving and pulling a heavy ass trigger under stress. But of course Nanny Bloomberg knows best.

      Report Post »  
    • CK1911
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 10:54pm

      Hey Kenboo and Humbleman,
      got get yourselves a .38 special revolver and then go get into a gun fight with a criminal or criminals with extra magazines and we’ll see how your armchair wisdom holds up. this ain’t call of duty 4.

      Report Post »  
    • MCGIRV
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 12:00am

      They need to switch to decaf.

      Report Post » MCGIRV  
    • Mil-Dot
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 8:15am

      Man, ALL nine of them huh? That is classic proof that the cops don‘t give a rat’s ass about the public. “Who cares if we hit some citizens, I want to be able to brag that I killed the guy” they say. Same thing with those 6 Michigan goons that gunned down that street creep with 46 shots. “The public be damned, we like to kill people. If they get hit, oh well”.

      Report Post »  
    • AintLIBSjuzGreat
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 8:29am

      Do you think emperor shiitberg will take away NYPD guns like london bobby`s.

      Report Post »  
    • Wyerd_001
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 9:46am

      @METEOR & @Bill, the news already confirmed it was a .45

      Report Post »  
    • rangerp
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 10:02am

      lots of Monday morning quarterbacks with all manner of comments. I would bet most of these folks have never been in a firefight, where you have cotton mouth, tunnel vision, and stuff is happening real fast around you.

      The shooter had a .45 and just killed a man. Deadly force was the way to go. Most of the wounded civilians came from bullet fragment, and were not direct hits or the result of bad marksmanship.

      I find it funny that most libs that want gun control, believe that only cops should have guns. Any time a cop uses a gun, they cry foul. Not speaking out against cops, but just like military folks, most are not very well trained with a hand gun. Those that are, are generally very conservative, and along with being NRA members, are also competitive shooter.

      Competitive shooting gives you a real edge once you get in a gun fight. Having already fired under stress helps, when you get in the real game.

      From watching the clip, it appears that one of the cops did a very good job.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • Ballot_Box_Revolution
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 10:50am

      this was another orchestrated event….obviously the mass shooting by bad guys were not getting people to change their minds on gun control….so if even the cops can injure 9 people trying to take down the bad guy, just imagine a citizen…

      Report Post » Ballot_Box_Revolution  
    • Listen_then_think
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 11:12am

      it was a .45 the story said so.

      Report Post »  
    • vanman4446
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 3:00pm

      I wonder if these guys ever went to target practice

      Report Post »  
    • mesaman2
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 3:31pm

      When guns are banned, only NYPD and criminals will have guns. I am teasing. There appears to be a total lack of training in the use of deadly force in this incident. I feel sorry for the innocent bystanders who were shot and hope each one files both criminal and civil lawsuits against the City of New York, and specifically, Bloombird whose attitude of gun confiscation and control contributed to the fiasco that followed. Any litigant who had been armed and who acted against the assailant would surely have been charged as a criminal.

      Report Post » mesaman2  
    • Meggars53
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 4:19pm

      I haven’t seen where is was reported that the suspect carried a .45 ACP and you sure can’t tell by the video. As for those that say its too big to be a .25, I have a S&W 22A .22 cal that’s bigger overall than my 1911 or either of my other .45 ACP pistols. And a .22 at close range is deadly.

      The police need more range time? Probably, but I’d be QB from the sidelines. But 16 rounds and maybe 9 hit home from 8 feet? Does leave you thinking.

      Report Post » Meggars53  
  • Verceofreason
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:03pm

    Cops these days are only trained in Taser and pepper spray.

    Report Post » Verceofreason  
    • dullsville
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:44pm

      Good point. What ever happened to firing range requirements?

      Report Post »  
    • floridareader
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:17pm

      Besides, in the “safest city of USA”, as Bloomberg says, Police is not allowed to use firemars. So when needed, cops forget to aim at the subject.

      Report Post » floridareader  
    • The_Cabrito_Goat
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:29pm

      I posted this in another topic,

      The reasoning is, if you give police an extensive marksmanship training, they will be itchy to practice what they’ve learned. So you give them a mere rudimentary training, and they aren’t as trigger happy.

      Thus police are less confident in their skill, and so they ‘whip it out’ less often. Or so the rationalization leads us to think.

      That’s why more bullets were fired by the police than the perp. Quantity over quality

      Report Post » The_Cabrito_Goat  
    • desertspeaks
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:06pm

      I’ve seen the police practicing at our local indoor shooting range,.. in a word HORRIFIC! It’s no wonder innocent bystanders were ALL shot by the police. They couldn’t hit the side of a barn if they were inside, with the doors closed!

      Report Post » desertspeaks  
    • FREEDOMoverFEAR
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:11pm

      Desert Speaks

      LOL a sheriff accidently shot a person at my range, Rankin Field outside of Visalia, CA. They tried to cover it up and the public outcry was to shut down the freaking range. I‘m not saying all cops can’t shoot just a funny story.

      Report Post » FREEDOMoverFEAR  
    • sWampy
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 9:18pm

      Idiot Yankees, nothing else needs to be said.

      Report Post »  
    • BryanB
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 12:28am

      @dullsville

      “Good point. What ever happened to firing range requirements?”

      That would require the NYPD to pay it’s Police Officers Over-Time………

      Report Post » BryanB  
    • eagledown
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 12:39pm

      With the potential second term of a dictator, somehow I find it comforting that they can’t shoot strait.

      Report Post » eagledown  
    • 00100111
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 2:00pm

      This doesn’t surprise me. Most cops can’t even shoot paper, much less respond in a situation like this. The range I go to is also visited by local and county law enforcement. One afternoon while I was there, a local cop in plain clothes was in the lane next to me. I knew he was a LEO because his badge was on his belt. His marksmanship skills were embarassing. He was all over the paper, no semblance of a group at all. A few times he even hit the rail. My groups took up about a 3″ hole at 15 yards. As I was packing up to leave he said “You’re a great shot, I‘m glad you’re one of the good guys.” I just smiled, he has no idea who I am. And I had to bite my tongue about his performance. I wouldn’t want him on my side.

      Most cops only shoot when they qualify. Many don’t like that they have to carry, and just view it as part of the uniform. It is the power they want, not the duty.

      Report Post »  
    • Sonicfd3
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 10:09pm

      You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I qualify twice a year. Crap i’d be up for qualifying 1 time a month problem is the commissioner answers to the politicians and the politicians aint paying for the ammo or the overtime to cover bringing in guys who are on days off or vacation.
      9MM is a lousy round alot of times it willl go THROUGH the target. That may have happened with some of the shots here I dont know you would have to be the ME and pluck out the bullets. I heard the guy was hit 7 times. Me personally a .45 cal hollowpoint round would be my choice, superior knockdown.
      Also you self proclaimed experts on here try going on a simulator which puts you in real life situations see how many times under stress you hit the target or multiple targets that are firing at you. You would probably crap your pants after the first scenario. Not only do you have to go through the scenario which was a course of 7 different one’s, you have to explain to the range supervisor why you toook the action you did or didnt after each scenario.

      Report Post »  
  • watersRpeople
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:01pm

    It sure doesn’t seem like they make bullets like they used to, they almost seem to have more collateral damage.

    Report Post »  
  • All Pro
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:59pm

    This is great news for the gun grabbers.
    With the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) currently on the back burner, in just a few days, weapon-prohibitionists will be holding another firearms conference in New York City: the Review Conference 2012 (RevCon 2012).
    RevCon 2012 re-visits the UN’s Programme of Action (PoA) to Prevent, Combat and Eradicate the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects, adopted in 2001.
    While the PoA enumerates many lofty-sounding objectives, to those unfamiliar with the UN’s agenda, to date, with regard to civilian firearm ownership, this might sound like a template for the elimination of human rights abuses. But armed with knowledge of the UN’s past efforts to achieve civilian disarmament, and reading all the provisions contained in the Programme, it is difficult to come away with any impression other than the PoA was really nothing short of a template to accomplish that.
    But if the PoA’s proponents said what they really wanted –just like the rest of the weapon-prohibitionists– they likely wouldn’t have gotten to the stage we’re at now: the implementation of a global, legally -binding Arms Trade Treaty!
    So they camouflaged their real goals a decade ago, and used the PoA as a guideline.
    Read more at Ammoland.com: http://www.ammoland.com/2012/08/23/revcon-2012/#ixzz24aOJkyZt

    Report Post » All Pro  
    • Meggars53
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 4:23pm

      Can we throw the UN out with the trash in January? Throw the UN, Obama, Biden, Reid, Pelosi, Clinton and the rest of the gun grabbing fools. In all fairness to Reid, he is pro 2nd Amendment. but he sucks otherwise.

      Report Post » Meggars53  
  • watersRpeople
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:57pm

    It sure seems like there is a lot more stories about bullets fragmenting lately.

    Report Post »  
  • watersRpeople
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:56pm

    Wow, Bloomberg came to that realization really fast that it may have been police bullets.

    Report Post »  
  • Constructionist
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:53pm

    Notice how it was “9 bystanders shot” when the narrative was anti-gun rhetoric; now suddenly it’s “flowerpots” and “fragments”.

    If it’s true that the gunman shot his intended victim and then turned and calmly walked away, it will go doubly bad for the police officers who sprayed the crowd.

    Report Post » Constructionist  
  • ColoradoDad
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:50pm

    Why in the world would it take 2 cops to shoot 16 rounds at close range to bring down one guy? Does anyone remember the elderly gentleman in the coffee shop that shot at two hoodlums and wounded both without causing harm to anyone else in the place? I would much rather trust law-abiding american patriot citizens with protecting us then with these goons with guns. Man, go take some shooting lessons and get a grip in these situations. One or two shots would have subdued this guy. What a bunch of sissy’s. Thank You NYC

    Report Post » ColoradoDad  
    • GrinningBear
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:53pm

      Say Hey Coloradodad; How about posting your after-action report on your last CQB…. then pontificate on how many rounds are effective in such situations… Just sayn’

      Report Post »  
    • hidden_lion
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:06pm

      Grinning bear-
      It is easier to shoot the perp if you are not turning your body away from him, watch the clip. Indiscriminate fire is what these cops did. They are lucky they hit him at all.

      Report Post » hidden_lion  
    • chicago76
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:52pm

      Yeah, their trained to call for help and wait for backup. When it’s one on one they get a little bit nervous. Well, maybe more than a little bit. Any questions now about why when rioting starts and they are outnumbered the police go find somewhere to hide. Just the way it is. Protection of themselves is more important than your protection. It is the union attitude.

      Report Post »  
  • eternal_vigilance
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:45pm

    Feel safer now?

    Report Post » eternal_vigilance  
    • justangry
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:07pm

      I feel safer knowing people like the old coot in the internet cafe are packing. Not because of these clowns though. Minus the one who stood his ground, that is.

      Report Post » justangry  
    • kenboo1
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:16pm

      Just angry – are you referring to George Zimmerman? The complete story is not out on that case. How can you make a comment on something that the facts are not fully known. Additionally, it has not gone to trial either. Unless you where there, how can you comment?

      From what I have heard and the facts known, I would have done the same thing… George Z. had a lot more taking place if the information is correct:
      1) Travon sucker punched him in the nose. He hadn’t pulled his gun.
      2) George Z fell on the ground, and Travon mounted him and started hitting him. George still hadn’t pulled his gun.
      3) George screams for help and still hasn’t pulled his gun.
      4) Until George felt threatened that Travon was going to take his gun did he pull it and use it.
      If these are the facts, and it appears they are, then George was fully in his right to do so.

      If Im off base, opps sorry!!! Just saying… Later

      Report Post »  
    • FREEDOMoverFEAR
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:08pm

      Just_Angry

      I thought the same thing. That old man did the right thing and ran closer to the shooter to ensure he hit his target and nothing else.

      Report Post » FREEDOMoverFEAR  
    • FREEDOMoverFEAR
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:09pm

      Haha

      Doesn’t the word ensure make you think of Jamie Lee Curtis taking a dump!

      Report Post » FREEDOMoverFEAR  
    • justangry
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:24pm

      Yes, you are off base. I was talking about the old timer with the CWP that shot at and wounded the two thugs that came in trying to rob the joint with guns. Not only did they get shot by an old man, all their cellmates are sure to see them on “World’s Dumbest” or some other clip show. It was some good stuff. Sorry you missed it.

      Report Post » justangry  
    • Wool-Free Vision
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 6:32pm

      Thanks for that visual, FreedomOverFear. From this point forward, I will always connect the word “ensure” with that image. I am still laughing.

      Report Post » Wool-Free Vision  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 7:22pm

      FREEDOMOVERFEAR, Bwahahahaha, I thought it was that yogurt she’s been plugging.

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
    • justangry
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 7:40pm

      LOL, it’s the Bifidus Regularis…

      Report Post » justangry  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 7:58pm

      JUSTANGRY, LOL
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLDHK_RiXFc

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
    • pamela kay
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 2:54am

      It scares the crap out of me. Is this how they are trained? Is this what we can expect from crowd control if they deem it neccessary? I will be curious as to how this plays out. Guns in the hands of civilians a threat? CCW carriers are better trained , yet they go after them. What defence is there for these cops? Will the cops be held accountable? Will they still recieve their pay and pensions? How many law suits will come of this? How will they spin this as far as gun control regulations? This will be interesting to say the least.

      Report Post » pamela kay  
  • FREEDOMoverFEAR
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:44pm

    The officer that doesn’t retreat looks like he did a good job. The one who ran and was firing indiscriminantly probably hit the majority of the 9 people. Fire one give the other a medal.

    Report Post » FREEDOMoverFEAR  
    • The Gooch
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:53pm

      Finally. A voice of reason. This story (as expected) has been a jumblefudge of speculation. This was a bad situation. I’m not sure what the bandwagon expects, but there sure are a lot of cowboys who are asserting they could’ve done better. Sure… whatever.

      Report Post »  
    • RepubliCorp
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:11pm

      Bingo!

      Report Post » RepubliCorp  
    • Rickfromillinois
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 9:23am

      Regardless of the stressful situation, someone messed up big time. You can come up a whole butt load of excuses but the glaring fact remains that the Police wounded 9 innocent bystanders while the shooter never fired a single round at them. NOT ONE. The main purpose of having a police force is to protect the public, and in this case the police themselves were the main threat to public safety.

      Report Post » Rickfromillinois  
    • The Gooch
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 2:14pm

      Rickfromillinois
      The guy had killed, was running thru a crowded urban area with a weapon & was turning on the cops w/what appears to be intent. People who believe bullets always fly straight & true seem a bit ignorant of detailed history (and I’m not a JFK conspiracist). By all means, be aware of what is beyond your target, but this was a tuff call that, IMO, went about as well as it could.
      You seem to be hinting there should have been some odd Marques of Queensberry rules referenced by the police before they took this murdering nut out. He gets to fire off a few rounds in their general direction before they can act? Here’s my take on the rules of engagement: When you’re the boots on the ground, best to engage before consulting a manual or a desk jockey.
      We’re all critics now. So be it. It just seems this could’ve been a helluva lot worse, The one cop who fired his weapon gansta style while skipping away should be looked at first, &, by all means, let the powers that be attempt to figure out how any wound was inflicted upon bystanders. Hell, I’m all for an independent investigation by a reputable entity (bigfoot chasers & truthers can keep walking… they’ve already figured out this was big conspiracy… as usual).
      So the cops hunker down & let this guy pull his .45. Maybe he eats one of his own rounds, maybe he fires on the cops, maybe he decides on suicide by cop by plinking at whatever moves.
      There is simply no pleasing some people.

      Report Post »  
  • RJJinGadsden
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:43pm

    WALKABOUT,
    Looks like I was wrong. They were both staining their underwear and shooting wildly. Doomberg will be paying for this. Those millions upon millions would have been better spent on more training though.

    Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
  • FREEDOMoverFEAR
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:38pm

    You guys are so stupid criticizing cops. Cops put their lifes on the line. Do you know what that means? That means they should NOT have to risk getting shot because they took time to get a good back stop! Putting your life on the line means your safety is more important than civilians. You‘ve never been in a fire fight so you can’t judge these cops. Who cares one cop fires with one hand while running? Who cares the other officer draws and maybe begins firing at the wrong person in the video?

    Typical response of ex cops and ex military.

    Report Post » FREEDOMoverFEAR  
    • RLTW
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:04pm

      When one serves as a true professional Soldier he or she is never ex, but will always be former. many of us trained at very high levels and have also been in real fire fights, based on the video the problem is clearly psychological, weapons training and fear of target proximity, all things that can be overcome with the proper training and attitude.

      I suggest they contact Mr. Lamb at VTAC

      Report Post »  
    • meeknotweak
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:34pm

      My reply in ( ), to the informed idtot who wrote this post.
      You guys are so stupid criticizing cops. Cops put their lifes on the line. Do you know what that means? (You sir are the idiot, these cops CHOSE this employment, KNOWING the risks, no special considerations required, period.) That means they should NOT have to risk getting shot because they took time to get a good back stop! (Again wrong sir, there job is to protect society not themselves first, idiot.) Putting your life on the line means your safety is more important than civilians. (seriously go jump off a bridge moron, police are not there to protet themselves first and make sure their life is ahead of others.) You‘ve never been in a fire fight (yes sir I have and I know what I am talking about, so I can) so you can’t judge these cops. Who cares one cop fires with one hand while running? Really idiot, those innocent bystanders care, the taxpayers care for 1) putting these loose cannons on hte beat with a gun, and to then pay for those injured) Who cares the other officer draws and maybe begins firing at the wrong person in the video? (I do you idiot, Please please do something to get a Darwin award, you too are wasting my tax dollars.)

      Typical response of ex cops and ex military.

      Report Post » meeknotweak  
    • FREEDOMoverFEAR
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:02pm

      Meak on Tweak

      Go to google and type “define facetious.”

      Report Post » FREEDOMoverFEAR  
    • FREEDOMoverFEAR
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:05pm

      BTW MeakNOTweak

      I love the passion and I love that you said all of the things I was trying to illustrate. Such as cops signed up for it and it’s their duty to risk their a55es to protect citizens.

      Report Post » FREEDOMoverFEAR  
    • Rickfromillinois
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 8:30pm

      If you are in fear of your own safety and decide to run away, fine, do it. Just don’t shoot a bunch of innocent people on your way to hide under your bed after dropping off your badge and gun to the proper authorities. 16 rounds were fired at the murderer before he was killed at a relatively short range. This could be the result of poor training, poor nerves, or light loads being fired from a lower power pistol such as a 9mm. If I were a cop I would spend a whole lot of time at the pistol range honing my shooting skills even though chances are I would never need them. Poor nerves can partially be blamed on poor training in combat situations and a lack of intestinal fortitude. As for the actual rounds being used, in many police departments that is a political choice. In the final analysis it comes down to the individual doing the shooting, the running away, and those who attempt to do both. There is no good excuse for police officers wounding 9 innocent bystanders and I have been in a fire fight so I guess I can criticize them.

      Report Post » Rickfromillinois  
  • endthemindlessspending
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:33pm

    Awesome to see cops using the spray and pray tactics. I would love to see how they pro form when they are shooting at the range. My cousin is a Marine and told me while at bootcamp, half of his class never shot a gun before arriving there. Wonder how many cops fall into this category also.

    Report Post »  
    • FREEDOMoverFEAR
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:46pm

      I’ve watched the video about a dozen times now and I really want a Serta, but also I noticed one officer seems to be aiming and doesn‘t retreat at all the other runs away and fires with one and and doesn’t appear to be aiming. So it looks like the one who retreated probably hit the most civilians. The officer who didn’t retreat must need a bowling ball bag to carry his testicles around.

      Report Post » FREEDOMoverFEAR  
    • endthemindlessspending
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:03pm

      Yeah, I know there are some that are very good with their hand guns. The sad thing is like you said the one’s that are running away shooting without aiming. The would be more help sitting in the car eating doughnuts.

      Report Post »  
    • Lord_Frostwind
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 12:18am

      You can train all you want, it’s a whole different ball game when the targets are shooting back.

      Report Post » Lord_Frostwind  
  • GoodStuff
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:33pm

    Sounds like the po-po need more training. or to be fired.

    Report Post »  
  • nobama2012yeswecan
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:32pm

    16 bullets ,1 dead, 9 wounded…good days work!!
    these cops need to put down their weapons and walk away..
    take one in the vest and tackle the guy..
    If you’re a cop and have a family..who comes first?? citizens or family??
    If you answered family,you need to find another job..
    Those cops flynched and fired erratically..damn near **** their pants..thought they weren’t going home..
    THANK GOD THEY DIDN’T KILL INNOCENT BYSTANDERS..but it was close

    Report Post » nobama2012yeswecan  
  • HKS
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:30pm

    It would appear to me that if no cops at all were around, nine people would be a lot better off today. The cops shot more people than the shooter.

    Report Post » HKS  
    • Verceofreason
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 3:06pm

      Can you imagine private citizens in a dark movie theater.
      They’d we shooting in direction of fire and be shooting at eachother.

      Report Post » Verceofreason  
    • The Gooch
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:51pm

      Verceofreason
      That’s nothing more than a logic argument revealing bias. “Surely if agents of the state can’t be trusted (to control bullets and fragments in an urban setting), the rubes would be shooting each other with abandon!” I can imagine a helluva lot, including your disdain for firearms and private ownership thereof.
      Funny how the left and right are revelling over this event. Wacky. People sure don’t have a problem filtering any given concern thru their twisted, little ideological filters. Keep up the good work.

      Report Post »  
    • 502_eagle
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 6:37pm

      VERCEOFREASON

      Can you imagine a place where a majority of people where so dumb:
      They actually voted for Obama?

      Report Post » 502_eagle  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 7:52pm

      Hey INCAPABLEOFREASONING, instead of me hooking a leash to that ring in your nose and leading you around. Take a few moments and look up some stats regarding the number of accidental shootings of bystanders by armed citizen compared to those by the police. You’ll find that the numbers for police are about six times higher and than armed citizens. I hate to admit that considering I am a former police officer. But, it is true. Had there been the ability to allow legally armed citizens in that theater and the shooter had known it. He would have had more than second thoughts about even making the attempt. It’s like so many have posted here, about the safest place that you can be out in public is at a gun show.

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
  • ThePostman
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:29pm

    To hit 9 people with 16 shots is hardly an accident.

    The shooter only shot one guy. The police, 9. Tell me who the enemy is again?

    Since no one can own any guns in New Your City, and it’s the safest place on Earth according to hizzonor, I think the police there don’t need to carry guns either now. Let them have a small can of mace, one each.

    Report Post »  
    • AintLIBSjuzGreat
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 9:09am

      Thats right Lord Blahberg should disarm NYPD if heis serious about gun control. FACT: 9 less people would have been shot if it were NY bobby`s

      Report Post »  
  • NHwinter
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:23pm

    “firing their weapons at close range.” Does this suggest that they need a lot more time at the firing range to practice. Not so good when police hit bystanders.

    Report Post » NHwinter  
    • wboehmer
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:36pm

      “Does this suggest that they need a lot more time at the firing range to practice.”

      I’d say so. Of course, Bloomberg thinks this kind of thing can’t happen in NYC because of his strict gun control, so police marksmanship may not be a top priority.

      You can see in the video that, contrary to initial reports, the gunman wasn’t firing indiscriminately at people on the street. Rather, after shooting his intended victim, he only drew his gun again when challehged by police. After some range time, the NYPD also may want to brush up on their technique for confronting an armed suspect.

      Report Post »  
  • AJAYW
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:22pm

    No problem, just collateral damage. If the 9 were killed as long as they got their man some will say – they are justified in responding the way they did. However when you hear of someone shooting to protect themself they scream you could have hit some bystander.

    Report Post »  
  • Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:22pm

    And this is why we need to take all guns away from all people so my police don’t have to shoot innocent people. In fact, I am going to take away the guns from my police, they should be able to shoot anyone either. Only me and my security will be able to have guns and shoot people.

    This is Mayor Bloomberg, your King for life, now kiss my feet and grovel, or I will have my police shoot you.

    Report Post » Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra  
  • FreedomWitness
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:20pm

    The gang that couldn’t shoot straight?

    Report Post » FreedomWitness  
  • docgreen
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:20pm

    What can you say about this? Is it possible this was from Crossfire; richocheting, or is it just bad aim? I guess when someones shooting at you and your shooting back, people could get hurt! Or could it be, the Gaulker Slowdown with Casualties?

    Report Post »  
    • docgreen
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:30pm

      A wise person told me, when you step out of the Rig and hear Gun Fire, drop to the Ground! Don’t stand there and do the 360 tournaround trying to figure out where it came from! Thats the difference between Street Smart Paramedics and Book Smart Paramedics! LOL!….

      Report Post »  
  • Optimist4now
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:19pm

    Sixteen rounds at close range, nine bystanders wounded — looks like a trip to the optometrist and six months of range training for these two NYC finest. Maybe they should be promoted to Bloomberg’s security team.

    Report Post »  
  • noland
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:19pm

    Hope thier all doing well and if thier all voters, they are voting for the GOOD side!

    Report Post »  
  • bobbyjoe
    Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:19pm

    Maybe some more range time. What, they were at “close range”

    Report Post » bobbyjoe  
    • FREEDOMoverFEAR
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:50pm

      Watch the video then repost.

      Report Post » FREEDOMoverFEAR  
    • The Gooch
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 2:55pm

      Standing still and shooting at paper is a world away from a running handgun battle.

      Report Post »  
    • hidden_lion
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:15pm

      Gooch-
      Not a handgun battle, the perp didn’t fire at all. It was cops firing without regard to their surroundings and no fire discipline. Every story of police shooting the suspects has the same narrative, they require to many shots to take down one guy, while stories involving regular joes using their guns for self defense use only one or two rounds to get the same effect?. Who is the professional?

      Report Post » hidden_lion  
    • The Gooch
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 4:43pm

      hidden_lion
      Let me preface this by saying I’m not a cheerleader for cops. I’ve worked with cops in my capacity as a mental health professional for 13 years. Some of the guys and gals are cut above, many are the “regular Joes” you speak of and more than enough are thugs with guns and badges.
      Um… the perp didn’t fire because the cops KILLED him before he could. He sure as hell didn’t seem ready and willing to surrender. You may WANT this to be a “they shot first and didn’t want questions asked later” scenario, but I see an armed man who, by report, had killed earlier, turn on two cops. So, yes, this was a running handgun battle, not some poor, misidentified boob getting gunned down in the street. Hell, it appears those injured took no direct rounds, but does that matter to you? As the old addage goes, you can’t stop the bullet once it leaves the barrel. Shrapnel from rounds… hell, that’s a whole new level of chaos. You’re overgeneralizing and clearly have a bias. Cops don’t have shoot outs on a regular basis… and neither do regular Joes.
      Seems to me the department has been VERY forthright in accepting responsibility. I pray I‘m never in such a situation even though I’d like to believe I’m prepared. I believe this is one time the cops don’t have to worry about The Rolling Stones turning this event into a song.
      Believe as you will.

      Report Post »  
    • hidden_lion
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 5:45pm

      The cops firing on this guy was the correct choice. Missing there target enough times to injure 9 bystanders is not. The majority of police shootings have them excessively expending their ammo. If both those officers put two rounds into the guy, that would have been more than enough and people would not have been hit. Back when they used revolvers, they were more careful with their rounds.

      Report Post » hidden_lion  
    • The Gooch
      Posted on August 25, 2012 at 6:25pm

      hidden_lion
      I concede you make some very good points. I prefer revolvers over a semi-auto pistol for both for accuracy and stopping power (when comparing available calibers), but the semi-auto has the advantage with capacity and ease/speed of loading. In the end, jams (however infrequent) infuriate me. I’ve also seen in my own family when you give folks more ammo and the ability to send it out quicky, much more ammo is used… and accuracy tends to suffer.
      It appears one of the cops kept his cool and the other freaked out a bit. It will be interesting to see who caused a majority of the casualties and who actually hit the perp. I believe these guys did their duty. Could they have done better? Hindsight is always 20/20. Some of the posters on this forum seem to be hinting NOTHING should have been done. Brilliant. And it appears many posters want to take a bad situatin and make it worse or have some ideological ax to grind (both left-leaning and right-leaning).
      Thanks for your time. This story sure as hell is turning out to be a far cry from what was initially reported yesterday. Go figure. Lesson: Do your best to be prepared for ANYTHING no matter where you’re at.

      Report Post »  
    • RaydocX
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 1:57am

      I’ve said before, the boys in blue were lucky the perp didn’t have an accomplice… If they ran through their mags, baddie 2 would’ve had them for lunch.

      And flasher or other frangible rounds at least at the top of the mag, would’ve limited collateral damage.
      Revolvers may increase consideration but limit capacity which I believe police need.

      I also believe bloomies boys need to rethink tactics… When a bird dog flinches, he needs more work before he’s put on the job.

      Shoot was righteous all the way, even if ‘suicide by cop’ but 9 innocents injured isn‘t acceptable in Iraq or the ’Stan, so shouldn’t be here.

      Report Post » RaydocX  
    • The Gooch
      Posted on August 26, 2012 at 2:25pm

      RaydocX
      Fair point on the collateral damage, but do you think that’s really an accurate comparison? Pistols and rifles are a world apart when it comes to expectations and you’re comparing two war zones to metropolitan NY.
      I like your bird dog metaphor. The one cop seemed WAY out of his element, but who the hell is this normal for? Seems to me we collectively like to p!ss & moan about lawyers and the lawsuit lottery, but a huge swath of people are chanting for a pound of flesh (or at least a big ol’ payday) over this event. We might wanna be REAL careful about what precedent we set here. By all means, cover medical expenses and time lost from work. Maybe even a small “for your troubles” acknowledgement, but no “Here’s to your early retirement!” monies.

      Report Post »  
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