Amtrak To Allow Guns on Trains, but Forces Riders to Jump Through Hoops
- Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:19pm by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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Government-subsidized Amtrak is finally coming in line with a federal 2009 mandate that it allow passengers to transport firearms aboard its train cars.
Amtrak says it will now allow unloaded firearms in checked baggage on trains starting Dec. 15. The change forced Amtrak to retrofit its train cars for gun storage.
The new gun allowance, however, doesn’t come without its hoops. Riders are required to make reservations for the firearms at least 24 hours in advance and show up 30 minutes prior to boarding, according to the train service. In addition, riders must store the guns in locked, hard, Amtrak-approved cases, and the transporting passenger must have the only key or combination to the lock.
In 2009, Congress passed a law requiring Amtrak to change its policy to allow firearm transportation or else lose its federal funding.
(H/T: Washington Examiner)
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Comments (74)
AZBOB
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 4:59pmOpen carry , concealed carry without a permit is what we do down here, and has anyone noticed that between SB1070 and Second Amendment advocates our crime rate is dropping. It’s unfortunate that liberal minds cannot process common sense.
Report Post »AZBOB
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 4:47pmOpen carry, concealed carry, auto carry, any type of carry is what we do down here, and has anyone noticed, between SB1070 and no CC permit our crime rate is dropping. I wonder why?
Report Post »booger71
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 4:15pmI love my CC class. We meet, eat some doughnuts, tell some jokes, go shoot 50 rounds, go home. $35 bucks. ( I am retired law enforcement though)
Report Post »REVENANT
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 3:36pmThe Second Amendment to the Constitution IS MY CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT. It is the recognition in plain language that God gives me the right to defend myself, and innocents around me from harm.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 3:48pmVery true.
Of course, no government court around today would dare entertain that plain common sense. On the other hand, if one reads the Temptation of Christ, Satan laid out a pretty clear case that he has dominion over all the kingdoms of the earth over all time. So, there you go.
Report Post »cogito ergo sum
Posted on December 2, 2010 at 8:29am@Revenant and Jefferson’s Ghost
The natural right to self-defense isn’t bound to a gun! If your life was in danger and you did not have a gun close by would you suddenly be unable to exercise your natural right to self defense? Both of you are conflating two very separate things: the natural right of self defense and the tool I use to exercise that right. The right to carry a weapon is a LEGAL right not a natural right. While I am in agreement with the legal right to carry my gun, it by no means is a natural right. The right to self defense no government can take away, that is natural. How I exercise that right within the context of society is predicated upon our legal rights. Do not mistake the two!
Cogito Ergo Sum
Report Post »George Washington
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:41pmIt is the same old story. Take guns away from law abiding citizens so that criminals can have their way. Does AMTRAK actually believe that criminals and/or terrorists will follow their rules?
Report Post »zsclark
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:14pmI‘m going to play a little bit of devil’s advocate here.
Report Post »I am all for natural rights, especially when it comes to the 2nd amendment. I think that all should have the right to keep and bear arms. I also agree that the government, being either the local, state or federal, should not be able to tell us where and when we can exercise our right. That being said, I do believe that there should be some guidelines to go along with that. I know that some are advocates for open or concealed carry without having to have a state or fed permit, however I do not wholeheartedly agree with that. I believe that carrying a firearm is big responsibility and that as long as you are a responsible member of society and in good standings that you should be allowed to carry freely without fear. Now when I say responsible I mean knowing and abiding by the laws. I know here in Tennessee that the permit class is by TN gov law around 10 hours. In that 10 hours you learn a lot of stuff, not only the laws, but also gun safety, shooting, ext… I think this is a good and reasonable requirement for anyone who wants to carry a firearm. I think that everyone on this post would agree, you don‘t want the United States to turn into the wild west and people who don’t know the laws or even how to operate their guns properly carrying one. Maybe it’s not a permit that should be required, but some type of documentation showing that you have sat through some type of class and that you are aware of the gun laws and are able to efficiently shoot your weapon. The last thing I think anyone wants is to be sitting somewhere with their wife and/or loved ones and something happen and Joe Shmoe pulls a gun in a situation that doesn‘t call for it and then he’s shoots someone who doesn’t deserve it.
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:34pmSo you’re saying, shall-issue but with a short course in law and self defense? In other words, you complete the *short* class and they cannot cite you later for carrying (meaning, no license, you just carry proof of class completion)? Or am I misreading you?
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:36pmBTW, the “wild” west was remarkably tame and peaceful when it came to gun-user violence. The few incidents we all know by rote history because they were so infrequent. In fact, the “wild” west was remarkably egalitarian in many respects, lots of women discovered that they could take a job and prospect just like the boys, and did and were received warmly.
Report Post »cotuit
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:39pmIt is necessary for every American, with becoming energy to endeaver to stop the dissemination of principles, evidently destructive of the cause for which they have bled. It must be the combined virtue of the rulers and of the people to do this, and to rescue and save their civil and religious rights from the outstretched arm of tyranny, which may appear under any mode or form of government.
Mercy Warren 1805
Report Post »NickinSeattle
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:57pmSo then would you also support say a certification in using a laptop as a prerequisite to purchasing a laptop or attending a government approved journalism class before posting to a blog or writing an editorial piece.With great freedom does come great responsibility. With the voluntary surrender of God given rights for supposed safety as the justification comes tyranny.
Report Post »twoifbysea
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 3:28pmIf I’m not mistaken, Tenn. and Va have similar CC requirements. In short, take a required safety course, Va 5 hours, pass a background check and you can conceal carry most anywhere. Courthouses and schools excempted, plus some others. You can carry open in Va (with the exceptions) but if you conceal carry you are required to have the permit on your person. For more info on Va carry laws check http://www.vcdl.org
Report Post »zagfan
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:13pmI‘m sick of being treated like I’m ignorant and can’t take care of myself…It used to be “For the Children” and now it’s “For your Protection” yeah right..it’s none of those. It’s about controlling the masses! If they continue to take guns or restrict them..the criminals have won, they will have the only guns!
It’s the Constitution..stupid!
Report Post »larman
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:59pmWhat do you expect the federal govt runs Amtrak, you’ve seen what they have done with the postal service.
Report Post »______________________________________________________________
http://www.thepathwaytofreedom.com
cotuit
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:53pmCarried by 6 / Judged by 12. You make the call. Challange authority, it’s good for all.
Report Post »cotuit
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:15pmLaws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarms only those who are neither inclined nor determinded to commit crimes… such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailant; they serve rather to encourage rather than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
On Crimes and Punishment
Report Post »Thomas Jefferson
heavyduty
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:52pmAll this is due to the present and prior administration to keep us in line. They can’t overtake us if we are armed. Besides I pretty much go anywhere I want in my own vehicle. That way I don’t have to dance through their hoops.
Report Post »prd1
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:51pmStill protecting the commom criminal.
Report Post »OK3Wire
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:45pmSounds like the Amtrak requirements are identical to the regulations allowing airline passengers to transport weapons — hard case, unloaded, locked with only the passenger having a key, etc. Like the article said, it’s just jumping through hoops.
All it will take is an attack at a train station somewhere and TSA will then implement the rest of the screening procedures for trains. Just a matter of time …
Report Post »barthom
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:45pmExcept for the useless swear words, this was one of the best discussions that I have read in a long time. People, you are being articulate. Keep it up.
Report Post »Longslide7
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:34pmQuiet peasant scum! Don’t you know your Masters have spoken? You can’t be trusted with arms. You might rise up in rebellion against your betters
“The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates.” – Tacitus
Report Post »NO_POTTERSVILLE
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:31pm2012 MIKENLEEDS/PALIN for President…
Report Post »GatorNavy
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:31pmUntameableKate: As of now the people of the great State of Arizona do not need a CCW permit any longer.We get to enjoy our Second Ammendment right as it is written and was intended.
Report Post »untameable-kate
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:56pmYour right, I forgot, sorry. I got my brains bashed in in a roll over car accident and my memory is crap.
Report Post »Soapymac
Posted on December 2, 2010 at 4:57pm…and to the start of this thread…about carrying or not carrying on AMTRAK…tell me, who owns AMTRAk? We the people, or each individual state? And…if AMTRAK is a federal function, then would not Federal law apply and be applicable should any wrong-doing occur (robbery, assault, etc.?) If federal law applies, then does not the second amendment trump any state law?
Jest askin’.
Report Post »CaliforniaConservative
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:22pmYou think there aren’t already lots of people carrying guns on trains? Due to the lack of draconian TSA screenings for Amtrak, I’m sure there are plenty of guns – legal and illegal – on trains now.
The part that reallly bothers me about this is that, unlike airlines, trains make many stops; lots of time when the baggage car doors are open and accessible to many baggage handlers and many stations. Lots of opportunity for theft!
Report Post »mikenleeds
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:57pmif i was president i d make it law for everyone to be a gun owner and that would be the end of the terrorist and crime as we know it
Report Post »untameable-kate
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:22pmOh God forbid. Man I love guns and I’m a card carrying member of the NRA, but I do NOT want everyone to carry a gun. Holy crap, have you seen the stupidity of some of the people out there?? I started teaching my son gun safety when he was three years old and got him his own gun at four. I still have to remind him sometimes not to blow my freakin head off because he isn‘t paying attention to where I am in relation to where he is pointing his weapon and he’s 13 now. NO, guns are not for everyone, they have a right to carry one but I don’t want ANY of these people who are afraid of them or uncomfortable or trigger happy to be forced to carry.
Report Post »westfayetteville
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:54pmhey if they can violate your 4th amendment at airports under the guides of safety what makes you thing they wouldent violate your 2nd. They have been waiting for years to do that shameful
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:10pmGood question. It comes down to this. Will we as individuals allow our individual natural rights to be violated, or won’t we? If we submit, we have nobody to blame but ourselves, as individuals. If we do not, then we are waking up to the fact that we are free men and have no obligation to beg government to allow us to exercise our natural rights.
Report Post »blacksmith
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:50pmLook now to the expansion of the TSA into train travel.This is why the government wants to force us onto public transportation. Cattle are loaded onto cars and transported to the slaughterhouse. The Jews and the other so called undesirables were transported to the death camps by train. Is it a coincidence that this administration continues to attempt to force public transportation. The TSA will be expanded and look for them soon to be an armed force. How can they keep US safe if they are not armed? Safety is the main goal of the Obama administration and the more We are controlled the safer that WE will be.Whether it is the food supply,transportation,water,air or whatever.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:03pmAgreed.
Our governor elect, an actual good guy that I’ve had dinner with and drinks with, is rejecting all calls for train building in Ohio. Outright rejecting it, and when he’s confronted in the press, laughs at them and says “nope, not here, not now, not ever”. He also attended tea party gatherings long before he ran for governor and trashed both GOP and DEMs for all the right reasons.
There may be cattle cars in the future, but they won’t be going through the Buckeye state. :)
Report Post »cognitivedissonance
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 10:04pmCome on guys, TRAINS ARE AWESOME! Seriously, how can you not love riding the train? It’s more relaxing than flying, its easier to sleep and its way better than the bus and you can get drunk on a train, can’t do that while driving. Trains are cool.
Report Post »PS90shooter
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:48pmJC – I agree but there would still be issues raised by the gun grabbers. They’d be making comparisions to the airlines, etc.
I carry my FNP .357 SIG everywhere I go now.
As the old saying goes, I’d rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.
Report Post »PS90shooter
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:44pmYet another assinine gun law. I’m sure Schmucky Schumer loves the no bullets criteria.
Freaking morons. Bernie Goetz had it right.
Report Post »J.C. McGlynn
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:41pmNeed the federal “National Carry” to go through. That way you cancarry on Amtrak without having to worry about varying state laws. Most are the same as federal laws and non-carry states would be forced to obey fed laws.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:46pmBeing from NJ I would welcome that. However, then the Feds would have the names of each and every person that has a gun! Can you say “easier confiscation”?
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:47pmWe have National carry. It’s called the 2nd Amendment.
Maybe we should stop petitioning government for permission to exercise our natural rights. We no more need Federal permission to pack than we need Federal permission to read the newspaper.
Less laws, not more.
Report Post »untameable-kate
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:53pmStates like Arizona have it right, if you’re not a felon you can carry a gun in the open as much as you like. You have to get a permit for CC but unless posted, guns are fine.
cessna152
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:55pmGhostOfJefferson,
I agree with you. However, try that in NJ and you’ll be behind bars. The NRA is useless here. I use my FL for neighboring states, but NJ is the next East Berlin. i need to sell the house, console the kids and get out of this F’d up state.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:59pmI like Arizona’s gun laws. Ohio’s have just changed (in late 2009) to “permit” open carry without license, and CCW concealed. I still hold that there is no authority granted to any government to dictate how or where I must or must not carry in the public, however, in this case some is better than none. Now, my thought is, let’s do the full push and eliminate licensing altogether for the exercise of natural rights.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:01pm@Cessna
I know, NJ has become a travesty in so many ways. It’s a shame too because contrary to popular belief, your average New Jersian (is that your self reference, btw?) is a decent, good person.
It‘s coming to the point that I’m afraid we’re going to have to start taking risks and reasserting our natural rights, without fear of consequence. I‘m simply putting the bug in people’s ears that they have rights that are not dependent on government permission, and that they should consider casting off the chains that declare that freedom only comes with a government permit.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:22pm@ghost,
I agree and the time is not quite right for that. However, more people are getting involved and we are seeing groups going the legal route…. which has not been done in this state for quite some time. BTW, you want to buy a house in SOUTHERN,NJ? It ain’t like the Northern trashy part and is quite pretty… BTW, there are more Conservatives than liberals in my part. Just wish NJEA was out, taxes lowered and fundamental rights restored… then it would be a nice state.
Report Post »SgtB
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:02pm@ Untamablekate,
Why should a “felon” not be given the right of self defense? I agree that there probably are people who don’t deserve to have a gun, but should these people have the right to live among us if they are so ill willed that we cannot even trust them to use a tool for self defense without fear that they will instead use it to murder and mame. Maybe we should take a good long look at what crimes are actually criminal and would require a person to be taken out of the general population and which are petty and require only correction. Then we could tailor our jail system to the two groups, those who will rot in prison without any rights and the men and women who are to be simply punished by a year or less in a prison where they will be taught that what they have done is wrong and why.
Remember, improper storage of a firearm in a state like California can be a felony. Should we really take away those “felons” rights for such an “offense?”
Report Post »untameable-kate
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 5:52pmSGTB, I didn’t write the law. I was corrected below about the CCW, Az changed the law and you don’t need a permit for that either. As far as the felons are concerned maybe the courts don‘t want to be tied up with who is dangerous and who isn’t so they lump them all together, again, I didn’t write the law.
Report Post »Alphonso
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:29pmWhy can’t a CCW permit holder just carry on Amtrak like they can carry (most) everywhere else?
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:33pmI’ll see that and up your ante.
Why can’t any law abiding citizen carry a gun, exterior or concealed, without a “permit”, anywhere he wishes, except for as posted on *private property*?
AMTRAK, I’m ashamed to note, is public property. There should be no laws dictating how or when or where you carry on those trains, Constitutionally. Remember, “regulated” in the 2nd meant practiced and drilled, and nothing more.
Report Post »TrueGrit
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:38pmBecause it isn’t nice to shoot a bad guy?
Wolverine
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:40pmBecause they can’t take over honest citizens that are armed, silly…..
Report Post »SgtB
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:54pm@ GhostofJefferson,
Report Post »I’m sure that you realize the 2nd ammendment only states on paper the natural right that every being is granted by nature or God. Be it man or mammal, fish or whale, every living thing in the universe is guaranteed the right to defend itself from death and harm by whatever means it may take. I just want everybody to think about it not as a 2nd ammendment right that can be written out of existance, but instead, we should think about it as just a right. Something that no person or thing may take away, like the right to believe in God or anything else for that matter.
mrlogan3
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:22pmC’mon Ghostie, gun manufacturers don’t care; it’s a business. They’d love to have everybody (not just law abiding citizens) carry. They’ll make a killing and they would sell to anybody. Not too mention all criminals start out as law abiding citizens.
jds7171
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:37pmYou can. Unless of course your in a non-concealed state. If its concealed they won’t know unless you are stupid and flash it to everyone.
Report Post »untameable-kate
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:52pmhey MRLOGAN I was just reading a site where people were discussing the Az law re: concealed carry law. One of the libturds was holding forth that they would now have to get a gun to protect themselves from “Arizona racists, homophobes and mad white dudes”. Is that about the way you feel?
Report Post »The Life Of Reilly
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:26pmNow when you board the Amtrak train, you will feel very safe until the criminal that hasn‘t heard you can’t have bullets in your gun robs you. How far can you throw a handgun?
Report Post »untameable-kate
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 12:48pmNot sure but I could probably beat him to death with my shotgun if it wasn‘t locked up nice and safe for ’my’ protection.
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 1:23pmoh, but I checked and they don’t have a case large eneough for my 20 MM cannon, or my M1A1, I think I should sue because they are being preferential to small guns.
Report Post »snowleopard3200 {mix art}
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:11pmMake sure the gun case is made of hardened steel, or cast iron on one portion; will be effective when applied to someones skull or such. That will be all it is worth by Amtrak standards.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:19pm@SgtB
We are on exactly the same page. Rights are rights, not grants or privileges. They cannot be taken away. Their exercise can be prevented, temporarily, but the right remains.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 2:31pm@mrlogan3
**C’mon Ghostie, gun manufacturers don’t care; it’s a business. **
And thank goodness for that!
**They’d love to have everybody (not just law abiding citizens) carry. They’ll make a killing and they would sell to anybody. Not too mention all criminals start out as law abiding citizens.**
Fortunately, under rule of law and the Constitution, a person is not guilty of a crime until they’ve been convicted of a crime. You cannot prohibit freedom because somebody might become a criminal some day.
Interesting post of yours. Anti-capitalism and anti-gun as well. Doesn’t that script ever get boring (I mean to you)? Is liberty that frightening, sir and/or madame, that you have to advocate control of all and you’re forced to demean good people who offer products on the market?
I invite you to read through the documents of the Founding Fathers, the Federalist Papers are a good starting point after the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. There is also absolute treasure to be found in the writings of John Locke and Adam Smith, if you’re up to the challenge. Please though, consider not believing whatever you were taught by angry envious professors who were insulated from reality most of their lives. I invite you to start down the path of independent thought, and wish you the best in your journey if you choose to make it.
Slainte
Report Post »DagneyT
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 3:04pmPrecisely! A whole bunch of hype to accomplish not a doggone thing!
Report Post »akim
Posted on December 1, 2010 at 8:42pmAMTRACK LUGGAGE IS NOT KEPT IN SECURE AREA.
Employees can easily detect weapons in baggage and steal it. You can trust a suicide bomber more than AMTRACK. Why can’t people legally armed be allowed on the train with their firearm. Its for protection. The 911 hijackers knew no one was armed on their planes.
Report Post »CYCLONE
Posted on December 2, 2010 at 1:09pmI’ll take my shotgun and up you one handgun… good riddance…
Report Post »oldoldtimer
Posted on December 2, 2010 at 2:22pmObama’s election in 2008 did more for the gun industry than any war in history. Same for ammo makers. Booming business. Why? Because the majority see Obama as a threat to the constitution and freedom. The gov’t has ever reason to fear ex military. We we discharged from the Armed Forces but the oath is forever. Against all enemies foreign and domestic. Wonder why they wrote in the domestic?
Report Post »