‘Anti-Gay’ Christian Band Sparks Anger After Lecturing IA Public School Students on Gays, Aborted Fetuses & More
- Posted on March 13, 2012 at 1:43am by
Billy Hallowell
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Bradlee Dean (Image Credit: YouTube)
Bradlee Dean is well-known as a controversial pastor. Last May, the Christian preacher, who is often described as “anti-gay,” drew the ire of politicians and the public, alike, when he questioned President Barack Obama’s faith during a prayer he delivered on the Minnesota House floor.
In his latest flap, Dean is drawing attention for a head-turning speech and performance his ministry delivered at Dunkerton High School in Dunkerton, Iowa.
TPM has more about the events that unfolded at the school:
Dean’s band — Junkyard Prophet, a Christian heavy metal/rap group — performed at Dunkerton High School on Thursday and then split the audience up into several groups: boys, girls and teachers. They reportedly told the girls that they would have mud on their wedding dresses if they weren’t virgins, advised them to take a submissive role in their marriages and showed images of aborted fetuses.
Those at the school who walked out on the program were mocked and shouted down, the WCF Courier reports.
The LaCrosse Tribune adds more:
Everyone anticipated the message from Junkyard Prophet, a traveling band based in Minnesota, to be about bullying and making good choices. Instead, junior and senior high students at Dunkerton High School and faculty members said they were assaulted by the group’s extreme opinions on homosexuality and images of aborted fetuses. [...]
During the breakout session, the young men learned the group’s thoughts on the U.S. Constitution and what one Prophet referred to as its “10 commandments.” The leader also showed images of musicians who died because of drug overdoses, including Elvis Presley. [...]
The girls, meanwhile, were told to save themselves for their husbands and assume a submissive role in the household. According to witnesses, the leader in that effort also forced the young ladies to chant a manta of sorts about remaining pure.
Following the event, some students said that their peers left crying and Dunkerton Community Schools‘ Superintendent Jim Stanton claims that the Junkyard Prophet’s (part of the You Can Run But You Cannot Hide Ministry) “opinion about intolerance” isn‘t in line with the district’s teachings. Apparently, the band had come years before and their past message, according to district staff, was much tamer.
Below, watch the abortion portion of the address, which covers infanticide, Planned Parenthood and offers some other graphic themes and pictures (caution: graphic images):
And here’s the portion on homosexuality:
On Thursday, following the presentation, students reportedly passed around a petition in an attempt to ban anyone like Dean from coming to the school to present or perform again. The district is responding to the incident by providing students with counseling, pledging to come up with an action plan to better vet speakers and presenters and trying to recover the monies provided to the band. Stanton pledged that this sort of debacle “will never happen again.”
On Monday, the WCF Courier also reported that the group is planning to return to the community to clarify its statements, the images it showed and its methods. Junkyard Prophet members feel that their overall message and intentions were misunderstood. However, the only venue — the Dunkerton Community Hall — is unavailable (the board of directors voted not to allow the groups to use it) and the high school won’t permit them back to speak.
Based on the above videos, do you think the presentation went too far? Let us know your thoughts in the comments section.
(H/T: TPM)
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Comments (451)
iamgorilla
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:11amI wish zealots would realise their actions reflect on all of us! Embarrassing!
Report Post »therockczar
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:20amYOU are the idiot!
Report Post »decendentof56
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:55am@Rockczar…….”YOU are the idiot!”
Report Post »I couldn’t agree more.
If Imagorilla thinks that after all the attacks on normal people by gays, lesbians, transsexuals…after OWS, after J Wright, Farrakan, Pelosi, Obama, the CBC, indiscrimminate attacks on whites by blacks at st. fairs, the attacks on our Constitution, our right to bear arms, the indoctrination of our children in schools, and eliminating the use of Christian symbols in schools or on public buildings…that there will not be a backlash or confrontation, then he or she is only kidding him or herself.
I welcome outspokeness towards the leftists. They want to dish it out and force their agenda… then get ready to get it right back.
grudgywoof
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:10amWhat the world needs most is the truth. So many people have grown up in this generation of liars that they don’t know the difference any more. When the truth is spoken it is offensive to those who have been told they have to tollerate sinful behavior and they call those who speak it zealots or homophobes or what ever nasty name pops into their infected minds. I pity you gorilla.
Report Post »IndyGuy
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:12amNewt Gingrich is in a fight with Obama…..WHY IS BECK NOT REPORTING IT???
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:57am@ primate Didn’t watch the videos huh?
Report Post »shy
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:05amI just watched both videos and I don’t see anything wrong with what was said.
Report Post »Phattdad144
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:16amThe basic message of your actions have consequences is not ext ream. Should this kind of common sense be taught in school?
Report Post »mytearoom
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:22amThe truth always blows minds doesnt it?
Report Post »conservativejon
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:29amwhy must we be tolerant of their corrupting lifestyle when they openly mock us for our christian values? thats ok we win in the end.
Report Post »USAF2003
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:31amSo what exactly is the outrage about? Cause I sure didn’t hear/see it. In the short vids here, there was nothing extreme. I would be much more upset over all the stories we’ve seen about Leftist propaganda in our schools, ie “the obama song” and many more over last 2 yrs.
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 8:01amUSA2003
Report Post »The outrage I would assume is coming form
PRO-ABORTION-ILK .
This bands presentation and stance on abortion..
Just put the proverbial FLY in the
Liberal- Puke- Soup…!
Locked
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 8:20amThe videos seemed to pretty clearly explain socially conservative talking points, and nothing seemed too horrible (short of implying Elton John is a pedophile, I suppose, or denying that there’s any biological factor to being gay). But again, those are the social conservative talking points; they obviously left out whatever didn’t help make their point.
I can see why the school would be upset if the group was supposed to talk about bullying and instead went way off-topic, but hey, it’s a view point the kids might not see otherwise. Bring in some left-wing group next (Planned Parenthood?) as the alternate view. All equal then.
Report Post »Tandem2011
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 8:35amRemember the slogan: “Oh Lord, save me from Your followers!”
Report Post »Treaty
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 1:37pmENCINOM,
Report Post »So “if it feels good, do it” right? I reject your immoral and godless viewpoint. Society must have laws and the best, most healthy, laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles. Things were so much better when people like you were in the closet.
encinom
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 1:41pmTreaty
Report Post »Posted on March 13, 2012 at 1:37pm
ENCINOM,
So “if it feels good, do it” right? I reject your immoral and godless viewpoint. Society must have laws and the best, most healthy, laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles. Things were so much better when people like you were in the closet.
____________________________
I find the balance of taoism or the reflection of budhism to be moral. Judeo/Christian principals are about control, not freedom. They are outdated and should not be taken literally.
burnbabylon
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:23pmWe should leave it up to you lukewarm types. (Rev. 3:16) Let’s all just conform to the things of this world. (Rom 12:2) Let us savor the things of man. (Mark 8:33)
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:46pmWow the kids were smacked with the truth and they apparently found it ugly. Imagine that. So the group won’t be able to come back, at least these kids have heard it one time and maybe it will sink into some of them.
I actually found him enlightening and he said the truth – abortion is killing babies. Planned Parenthood should be made to show everyone seeking an abortion a film that shows an abortion. Then lets see how many volunteer to do that to themselves. If you hide the truth or sugar coat it to make the medicine go down, what are you breeding?
Kudo’s to Junkyard Prophet. I like their songs and now I support their traveling awareness presentations.
Report Post »TH30PH1LUS
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:51pmWhat I observed in the videos looked truthful and presented with examples of what was being discussed. If the band misrepresented to the admin what content would be discussed, that’s another matter. But in terms of what was said in the presentation – they were very accurate.
What amazes me is the parents who are fine exposing their kids to movies and games that are filled with cussing, sexuality, drug use, blasphemy, etc etc etc – but those same parents will get “offended” if someone confronts them with TRUTH.
Report Post »db321
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:58pmWOW! This guy is amazing – God bless him – in one speech he has reverse 10 years of Liberal Media BS on abortion and Homosexuality.
He is hitting the Target head on – Let me know when he is on GBTV and I will tune – what guts. Watch this video and tell me that God is not in the Game.
100′s of Pastors will watch these video – but will not have the guts or believes to do what this guy is doing.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:05pmencinom
“I find the balance of taoism or the reflection of budhism to be moral. “I believe” Judeo/Christian principals are about control, not freedom “and that” they are outdated and should not be taken literally.”
I fixed it for you. You were making a general statement that applies to your beliefs and should not be presented as truth that you cannot prove. You will see in all of my comments that I make it clear they are my beliefs and opinion. You are entitled to your beliefs as I am entitled to mine. I have not forced my beliefs on folks yet they are attempting to force their beliefs on me and my children by force of law. California mandate for Gay history in our public schools is an example. The removing of parental notification regarding abortion is another. The problem with parents, is they get in the way of the government desire to indoctrinate children to control the future. That is why they attack parental rights. There is no valid argument for the federal government to be involved with public education. As a free people that are not part of the communist collective group think, the idea that the federal government being involved with every aspect of a child’s life and relationship with their parents sickens me. This is my belief. The control you speak of starts with the indoctrination of our children. No matter your beliefs, it is not the governments job and is one of the most dangerous intrusions today in my opinion.
Report Post »ChiefGeorge
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 12:47amDesperate measures for desperate times! “Thet cried and ran out” Sissies can’t handle some real truth!
Report Post »toto
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 1:28amWonderful! Someone who dares to speak the truth. Can’t handle the truth? The school administrators should be throughly ashamed of themselves. The abortion presentation was completely factual. Why don’t they want the kids to know the truth?
Report Post »The Jewish Avenger
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 8:48amIf stating facts to children that at the mercy of a program that is specifically aimed at destroying anything that involves love for God, Country and Family, then perhaps you are not a part of the “us” that you speak of.
Report Post »4areason
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 9:15amThey appear as zealots because of the lies we have been fed for 40 years. This is truth. When some children ran from the room crying they were simply expressing the emotion that many of us adults feel as well. The thought of humans slaughtering their babies makes me want to run away and cry as well! I heard the truth spoken with love. I did not hear hatred or fanaticism. The truth is only ugly because of the lies that have been allowed to perpetuate for far too long now. Sometimes life is horrible and tragic. Should we just hide our heads in the sand and pray it goes away?
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 9:38amOther than a bunch of zealots attempting to brainwash children into thier cult, no truth was presented. Just opinions based on a book of fables. Opinions that are outdate and based in ancient bigotry.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:55amEncinom – You lefties have no room to criticize others about outdated beliefs and zealous bigotry when you believe in Marxism, which is a zealous bigoted outdated ideology that has proven to fail everywhere that it’s been tried.
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 12:21pmWow, the poor dears are now being provided with COUNSELING. I guess the school would have been happier if the band had decided to show the kids a movie like Hostel, American Psycho, I Spit On Your Grave, or anything with porn.
Report Post »johncopeland
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 1:36pmagree
Report Post »mantis
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 3:17pmNothing wrong with the message.He spoke the truth.Watch the videos
Report Post »THEUNKNOWNPATRIOT
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 4:38pmI bet he affected the lives of everybody that day, and from what he said and showed pictures of, it might save someones life in the future. I think he did a great job of laying out the harsh reality of poor decisions, especially to a group of people that are used to getting participation trophies.
Report Post »Blue60
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 5:28pmDitto.
Report Post »Blue60
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 5:32pmHow did it even get that far with this band? Why didn’t someone stop them?
Report Post »do_it_all_again
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 9:58pmi am glad the kids got a chance to see this, i would rather my child see this and turn away from doing it, than to go thru life thinking its ok
Report Post »NOT A CRAZY
Posted on March 15, 2012 at 2:27amI must be a zealot monkeyboy. I totally agree with both videos. Now I am going to go to Pandora and see if they have this band. I love Corpus Christi and Disciple on Pandora.
Report Post »JusttheFactsLady
Posted on April 27, 2012 at 2:35amStating facts, truth and morality is zealotry? Iamgorilla…well named and the embarrassing one.
Thank you, Bradley and the Junkyard Prophets, for courage to tell our youth truths they need to hear and what many aren’t brave or wise enough to tell them honestly. Morals and values used to be our bedrock. Now we have a crumbling foundation and “anything goes” livestyles which are quicksand sucking us down into deprevation.
“The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.” Winston Churchill
“I am aware, that many object to the severity of my language; but is there not cause for severity? I will be as harsh as truth, and as uncompromising as justice. On this subject, I do not wish to think, or speak, or write, with moderation. No! No! Tell a man whose house is on fire, to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hands of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen;–but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present. I am in earnest—I will not equivocate—I will not excuse—I will not retreat a single inch—AND I WILL BE HEARD. The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestand to hasten the resurrection of the dead.”
The great emancipator, William Lloyd Garrison
I will not equivocate—I will not excuse—I will not retreat a single inch—AND I WILL BE HEAR
Report Post »Andy Cooper
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:10amI give this presentation an A+. What exactly are people complaining about, hearing the truth?
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:41amExactly…!
This band is taking the fight to the front lines…!
Telling these kids the REALITY of abortion…!
This band is doing what the “liberal indoctrination propaganda machine”
does…..Reach out to them…“while their young”
Their message is clear and to the point and exactly what our kids
need to SEE ..HEAR…and ..UNDERSTAND..!
to stand up against the lies that have been woven into the fabric ,
of our educational system and society as a whole.
We need more like these guys, going to every school in this Nation.
GOD BLESS THIS BAND….!
Report Post »ClunkerT
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:00amSpot on, this video gets an A+. Abortions would be cut in half almost over night if every school in America and every Church in America would give the same presentation. Pictures are worth a thousands words especially in the abortion debate. We have allowed the liberal media control the debate far too long. It is shameful, but our churches do not do enough to expose the evil of abortion. Pastors all across America have become the sheep they are suppose to be sheparding – useless whimps. The Roman Catholic Church has done much in the fight against abortion. When one participates in the March on Washington every January one can observe many Catholic HS students attending, the Catholic schools close down and sent the kids to Washington. Evangelicals do not do the same. Where the Roman Catholic church fails is in their higher archy, the men dressed in robes are quick to write letters and make declarations but you will rarely see them leading the flock. They all should be like Randle Terry, out there on the streets and on the buses headed to DC every year. When Obama was invited to the Catholic Notre Dame three years ago Randle Terry (the Roman Catholic) was practically standing alone. Oh yes, the Bishops wrote letters, so what, Obama, the pro Abortion President of the Century got standing ovations that day. The protesters got booed, a shameful day for Roman Catholics.
Report Post »Ayla_me
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:07amI, too, applaud this band. They spoke the “truth in love”. May God bless them bunches! (And protect them from those who wish to keep our young people ignorant about the media mind manipulation that goes on.)
Report Post »old white guy
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:11ambeing against perversion and devient behaviour is wrong. heh who`d a thunk it.
Report Post »G-WHIZ
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:55amWe would have NO pics of aborted fetuses, if they were not ripped out from where nature put them to grow into a baby…then no one could take that picture. There is no other animal in the world which ripps-out their own fetuses, besides the human. There is no other animal on this world that murders for fun or profit besides the human. WE have not learned anything from our predicessors(animals).
Report Post »Seasoldier
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:59amA+ for the portions of the presentations made available in this report. Our kids are exposed to a constant barrage of sex, drugs, and rock and roll everywhere they go, including in their classrooms. The money Girl Scouts raise sell cookies can be used to support the Planned Parenthood abortion industry and their efforts to get children hooked on sex. Federal and state governments can use taxpayer money to promote abortion and homosexual activity. It’s time our kids were exposed to the truth in their homes as well as in schools.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:06amAs a Christian who used to live a gay lifestyle, I know just how destructive that lifestyle is. The friends I had in the gay community are either dead or dying, or are living miserable, unfulfilled lives. What is really sad though, is that the love these people are so hopelessly seeking in the beds of strangers is waiting for them in the arms of Jesus.
Good for these guys for telling children the truth and shame on parents who hate their children so much that they would allow them to listen to lies by Liberals that could potentially cause them to grow up and follow a path that is unbelievably self-destructive. If you are allowing your child to be taught that homosexuality is okay, your child will curse the day (s)he believed that lie if (s)he ever gets caught up in that lifestyle.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:58amToleration for evil and perversion all the while intolerant for the truth….. LORD, do not your eyes look for truth? You struck them, but they felt no pain; you crushed them, but they refused correction. They made their faces harder than stone and refused to repent……Therefore say to them, ‘This is the nation that has not obeyed the LORD its God or responded to correction. Truth has perished; it has vanished from their lips…..“They make ready their tongue like a bow, to shoot lies; it is not by truth that they triumph in the land. They go from one sin to another; they do not acknowledge me,” declares the LORD……..Friend deceives friend, and no one speaks the truth. They have taught their tongues to lie; they weary themselves with sinning… — Jeremiah
Report Post »But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God…..Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him……Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”…You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies… Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! —-Jesus
encinom
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 1:37pmThere was no truht onl;y bigotted opinions.
Report Post »maccow
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:28pmWatch The Other Hand
Very well done.
Encinom; You come here and willfully and knowingly and willfully pervert the truth in hopes of leading others into your world of godless, lying, blasphemy. You don’t know and therefore cannot speak a single truthful word because your words flow from The Father of Lies who is the accuser of the believers. When the day comes when you stand face to face with the truth and have to give an account of your persecution of Him for every word you have written hear, your arrogant, self righteous, pride will be your undoing. It will be by your own willful ignorance that you will find yourself cast into the outer darkness with much proverbial weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Yet still Jesus stands at the door and waits. If you knock, He will come in to you, yes even you Ecinom, and dwell with you. You stand no closer or further away from eternal separation from God then does anyone else before accepting Jesus’ atonement by faith.
Report Post »Our momentary joy at our own knowledge and superior intellect, our self proclaimed wisdom and understanding far surpassing other lesser humans, our arrogant pride in what we are so sure of;
ALL Is foolishness and vanity before the righteousness of God.
Choose to exalt yourself before God and He will humble you for eternity.
Choose to humble yourself before God, and He will lift you up and give you an inheritance with His Son.
By your own willful actions, words and deeds, you make your choice known.
encinom
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:30pm@maccow
Report Post »The presentation was the opinions of the “preachers” based on their understanding of a 1500 year old book of ancient Goat herder Myths. It is not “truth”.
ltb
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:40pmEncinom, why do you condemn a book you’ve never read and why do you hate a God you’ve never met? If you were to read the Bible, you’d discover that God truly is good and if you would pray to Jesus, you’d discover that God truly exists. I’ve read your comments before and you are one of the most hateful and spiteful people I’ve ever encountered, which is proof of one thing… the worldview you’ve chosen as your guide in life isn’t working. That is unless you’re goal is to lead a lonely, miserable life where your only source of “pleasure” is to hurl insults at complete strangers. I’m telling you Pal, God is real and he loves you.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 8:48pm@ ENCINOM. I would like to ask you a few questions. What objective evidence do you evaluate to determine the integrity of works of antiquit (hint: there are well known categories) What works of antiquity do you find to be authentic based on those evidences? I doubt you ever respond if you even understand the questions. Your answers will demonstrate if you have even evaluated the evidence objectively.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:12pm@watchtheotherhand
Report Post »Is there yes truth in the old and new testment, yes, there are secondary sources, Roman records, other historical artifacts that prove reigns of certain kings and evidence he wars, etc. There is no evidence of the miracles. The acts of god are as provable as the acts of any diety. Like the works of Homer, which are based on around real events, the bible adds magically flurishes.
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 8:47amActually you do not understand the question or the principles involved in examining works of antiquity. The three broad categoriesare bibliographical, internal, and external. If you were to discount the Bible on bibliographical grounds you would have to deny all other works of antiquity. Most any scholar does not really make much effort in this category because the evidence is quite overwhelming. In regard to external evidence the bible was mocked for years about places like Sodom and Gomorrah, Jericho, Being enslaved in Egypt, etc. until these places were later discovered. External records found in Northern Iraq confirm many of the customs recorded in Genesis as well as places, locations, and kings. With regard to internal evidence, there were as many skeptics then as now and yet the authors often appealed to the knowledge of those who opposed them. If those miracles did not happen then they would easily be proven wrong as cons and crackpots. Do you not think that if 500 people raised from the grave when Christ rose from the grave and went back into town that wouldn’t be easily disproven? Many of those people including their children would have still been alive when those things were written down. Also, when is the last time that a religion fabricated by men advocated peace and love as well as allegiance to Jesus even if it meant death? Do you not know that many of the Pharisees that put Christ to death later converted to Christianity because of the evidence?
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 5:26pm@watchtheotherhand
Again, no independant evidene for the miracles. Bible is mostly correct with locations, cities, kings. With miracles and attacks of God it is no better than the Illiad. There is no evidence of the Jesus Christ Zombie invasion. The Roman kept excellent records.
Report Post »REPUB1
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:02am@Diane TX
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:24am
I also want to add that ONLY the Roman Catholic Church has endured for over 2,000 years. Jesus Christ told Peter/Saul that he was the “rock” that his Church would be built upon. Peter was the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church. That’s why I remain a Catholic. I believe that the Catholic Church was actually founded by Jesus Christ, himself, and I believe that Jesus Christ actually was a real person.
YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus DID NOT TELL PETER that he was a ROCK moron!!!!!! it was baised on the FOUNDATION OF HIS confession that Jesus WAS THE CHRIST…. and AGAIN Peter WAS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pope EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »You Say “ I believe that the Catholic Church was actually founded by Jesus Christ” AGAIN YOU ARE AN IDIOT
JESUS CHRIST IS THE CHURCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not founder of your FAKE catholic church. and it is NOT 2000 yrs old either………. get a REAL BIBLE and read IT for yourself.
mycomet123
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:09amWhy do you have such anger over the Catholic Church? I hope you have this much anger against abortion & all the other injustices & use your anger for something positive, & hopefully PEACEFUL, like stopping abortion & promoting Christian UNITY!
Report Post »dcamp3376
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:17amForgive him/her for he knows not what he does. Smite others and you smite yourself. It’s all a dream and you play to the evil side of you ego. Jesus did not come to create a religion. He came to tell us that the body has not worth, it is just an image that will be cast aside. Your real self resides with the Father, be as he is, totally loving, carry no grudges for they are a burden to your soul.
Report Post »JimL
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:38amThe Word became incarnate to state, “forget the body”?
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:27pmREPUB1: You are so very angry. Peace be with you. May the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob grant you the wisdom to learn love and teach the mercy & love of Christ to others. Anger & name calling negates any good message from the Lord you may wish to convey. I pray that the Holy Spirit helps soften your heart. You must pray this also. God bless & comfort you.
Report Post »shelly99032
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:00amHe told the truth. People don’t like the truth because it confronts them with their sin. People don’t want the light shed on them they would rather hide their ugly deeds in the dark.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:40amSums it pretty accurately. We are to seek the Truth and preach the Truth
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:00amGirls save yourself for marriage? Really?
I think both boys & girls need to save themselves for marriage.
What are we going to have well Johny my beloved your were better than Pete but not as good a Joe? That is always good for a relationship!
Plus I don’t think most liberals know what a biome is let alone could spell it. Those that could will unhesitatingly assure us the Uncle Sam in conjunction with thew high priests of science will find a cure for everything & anything in the biome that could harm us.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:06amI have a problem with the showing of images of fetuses. I really do. They showed fetuses to the girls?
Show it to the boys & girls. Show it during health class when they are discussing sex ed. If you can teach contraception & disease control (using condoms et al) then you damn well should show fetuses in the womb & aborted fetuses.
I have a problem with a band coming in & doing this. But if they don’t who will. the brainwashed brain rotted teachers?
Yes, show both the boys & the girls, because it takes to to tangle.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:12amMy last bitch on this subject is about the submissive part. Maybe the males will always take the lead in a dangerous world, but if anyone believes in Hayek that the ONLY resources in the whole wide world resource is the human mind, then asking women always to play 2nd fiddle is an immoral waste.
The way I have it figured is that the Muslim world wastes 50% of their brainpower straight off the top. This is before all the wastes that results from polygamy/beta males & oligarchies. We are not perfect & have some of the same wastes but they are not of the same magnitude.
Report Post »Red1492
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:05amWalkabout, I agree. This guy is a nut. Playing second fiddle to a man ain’t ever going to happen. Women are starting to leave christianity in higher numbers – see The Barna Group for details. All state that the churches views on women are unfriendly and antiquated. I was raised southern baptist which not only drove me away from christianity but my siblings as well. Telling a woman she’s must be held to a different standard, has to be submissive and bears all the accountability won’t do the religion as a whole any favors. I live in Texas and just as many women describe themselves as “spiritual, deists, agnostic or atheist” as describe themselves christian. Even my friends & acquaintances who do go to church only do so for fellowship and don’t subscribe to church doctrine or share their beliefs. They go as a part of tradition. Church attendance has declined as people have become educated. Men attend church even less than women do. Once women go, so does a church. Women do all of the unpaid grunt work. Once that’s gone….
Report Post »mdeputy7
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:59am@Walkabout
The idea of being submissive is a Biblical principle. It does not mean that you cow down to everything your husband says. What it means is that while you have an opinion that your husband should take strongly into consideration, the husband is the final authority. There always has to be a hierarchy of authority or things just get chaotic. That’s why you see it in businesses, in government, even in school clubs. There has to be a leader, and according to the Bible that should be the man.
That being said, just following the submission part, it also says to men that they need to “love their wives as Christ loved the church.” This basically means that you take the opinion of your wife as more important than yours. The whole issue is hard for many to take, but it works. I promise. My wife and I are very happy in this, and ask her….neither of us would change it for any reason.
Report Post »RonmeyPaulBotsrOdd
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:31amJust an FYI – it is STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION MANDATED in Iowa to have a GLBTG (or whatever the acronym is…) program year. Speaking from experience, having a child come home from school upset and quite sullen after hearing a gays talk about the bullying they have been through and that you HAVE to accept them because they are just people too….HAH! I agree that social issued should be left out of the schools. Heck the 1st fifteen minutes of a school day is “Channel 1” which is nothing more than a liberal indoctrination supplement…and again, appealing to the emotions of your child.
Report Post »This should not be an argument about religion (though basic morals should still apply), but about what is taught in school. Wonder why high schools are lagging other developed countries? Because we got away from the basics of education. As a country, we had better students when all students had was a book, paper and pencil and the teacher taught reading, writing and arithmetic.
RonmeyPaulBotsrOdd
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:34am(Forgive the grammar errors – too early in the a.m. – LOL, should have proofread. Also – the program is mandated to be held every year in schools no different than a water safety class in PE.)
Report Post »YAHSHUARULES
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:20amSomeone had posted this on another Blaze board. If you don’t read it you are doing yourself a disservice. This paper will explain the whole homosexual agenda and how we went from seeing an act “sodomy” as a perversion – to having the act redefined as a person “gay”. The guy that started all this in this country was a member of an occult organization called O.T.O. This was based on what had worked in Germany in the Wiemar republic before Hitler came to power. There is also a secret in the homosexual community they fight to keep from becoming known to the unqueer world, that is this idea of born gay is a lie and they perpetuate it for political reasons and power to continue to engage in filth and not have to deal with the morality of it – saying sexual preference is determined at birth. Yet in their own literature, radical papers and such prominent lesbians and homosexuals are talking about being in relationship with the opposite sex, having affairs with the opposite sex, realizing sexual identity is fluid, not fixed, that what this agenda is is a learned behavior and it can be unlearned. They hate reparative therapy because it works. You can be homosexual and have an affair with the opposite sex as long as you continue to call yourself “gay” for political reasons. There is so much more…I read the whole thing it is an eye opener. I just scratched the surface in my comments:
Report Post »http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/08a/born_gay_hoax/TheBornGayHoax.pdf
spikebu
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:26amI don’t get why we send our children off to the public indoctrination facilities. We all B@#ch about it, but send our children anyway. We do it willingly. No education would be preferable to what our kids are learning. I’d much rather my child learn how to preserve food, sew, hunt, cook, clean, fix an engine, garden, etc, than alternative lifestyles, abortion and self hatred. We know the system is not going to change, but look who’s kids populate the schools. I don’t get it.
Report Post »spikebu
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:57amThanks, Yahshu. I believe I get it now. We’re too busy arguing settled issues to address the unsettled ones. God stated His case on homosexuality. Just as He did on adultery. Have you done research on adultery? How about murder, lying or jealousy? “The wages of sin are death”. I can’t see one sin being worse than another when the penalty for all is death to God. Sin is sin. There aren’t any degrees. Everybody has a choice to make. Our job is to bring people to God, regardless of their sin.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 8:22am@SPIKEBU
Proverbs Chp 6
16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Sounds like there are differences to me. They are all sin and all bring the death penalty but some quicker than others. It has to do with earthly degrees of penalty. Eternal penalty is the same for all.
Report Post »tvtailor
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:06am@Yahshu – or should I say Dr. Yahshu. God may condemn homosexuality, but he also condemns eating shellfish, getting tattoos, rounded haircuts, men with injured penises entering a church, going to a psychic, gossiping, helping your husband in a fight, eating pork, cursing your parents, getting remarried after a divorce, working on the sabbath, women speaking in any church, and losing your virginity before marriage.
How many of us are guilty of any of the above? What gives people the right to hand-pick one, single verse out of the bible with which to discriminate? It is not our lot to judge and until we walk in someone else’s shoes, we know not how they came to be. There is more to this life than meets the eye – there is wonder around every corner. Maybe we need to be good christians and live and let live. Whether someone is gay or straight is of no import to me. I have more important things to worry about. Shame one you for preaching your hate. There is only one that will do the judging and let‘s see what he says when you’re called home after taking your final breath.
Report Post »weremoose
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:32amI’m going to ignore the strawman in your argument and go for the heart of the matter. Homosexuality is different because it is actively teaching others to sin. There is an agenda to force the acceptance of evil unlike any of the other sins (or strawman not-sins) you listed. Lying and adultery are typically shunned, for example. Calling an action for what it is isn’t hate. Refusing to call good that which is evil isn’t hate. And speaking out to inform the innocent before they are led to destruction due to their lack of knowledge is love, not hate.
I guess I’ll address the strawman too. Most of your laundry list comes from Levidical law. It was a law set in place for a specific nation at a specific time, not a guide for determining sin. Sin is dealt with separately in the scripture. Don‘t try to pass it off as God’s command for the modern Christian in an effort to undermine our beliefs, you only come across looking uninformed.
Report Post »YAHSHUARULES
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 12:11pmTo most of you that comment on my post, (Weremoose being the exception on comments) Bud you did not even bother to read the linked paper. I know because of the comments you made. This link is to a paper that gives the history of the homosexual political movement in this country…until you have read it, you have nothing to add to the conversation. Its the same ole liberal, amoral, anything goes, call dark light and light dark relativism. I did not go into what scripture says but there is plenty. We are to mortify the deeds of the flesh, crucify them, not exalt and coddle and justify them. Yes sinners sin, but I for one do not like any sinner trying to ram down my throat their sin and particularly deviant behavior and justify it with PC and lies. Read the paper. It might open some eyes.
Report Post »kushisaac
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:20pmReally Spikebu? So you put stealing paper clips on par with murder? Read God’s law in the OT, the sanctions (on this earth in Israel) against certain crimes were death, others were not. God made a distinction between certain violations, we should too, or we end up saying stealijg paper clips is as bad as murder.
Report Post »truthspeare
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:15amI am a conservative Christian. However, Gays have a right to be gay. It is not ours to judge. To each their own. Harmony is more important than labeling. We need peace. We need tolerance. We all need forgiveness.
Report Post »It is the economy stupid. We are on the verge of economic colapse, sexual preference is not our concern. We are on the verge of constitutional government collapse, contraception is individual choice beyond our concern, forcing others to pay for it is a constitutional issue, such issue smallish given the impending collapse. We need harmony, we need peace, we need tolerance. We need a leader that will unite us. We need a leader that will not divide us. Be harmonious, be peaceful, be tolerant, welcome your oppressors, the tent is big, they instinctively know in the dark of night, when the tears come, when the confusion comes, when the emptiness comes, that there is something better, they will come, they will come. We cannot hate people to the Christian church, we can only love our neighbor, we can only “do unto others as we would have them to do unto us”, a collective golden rule. Politics is only a small part of us. We are so much more, We love our rock, country, rap blues, and classical music, our cinematice movies, our baseball, football, and soccer and all that. Yes, we love our barbecues, we love chevy’s, fords, dodge’s, beamers, and on and on and all that. We love it all, don’t we? Woodstock? Cool. Other stuff, way cool. Great count
Diane TX
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:40amJust “love” your concept of – “I’m OK, you’re OK” How far does your acceptance of sexual depravity go? Does it include adult male on male child? .
Report Post »Cuthalu
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:20amSee people, here is a prime example of the pro-gay side’s arguement. They FOOLISHLY think they we mere humans are judging wether being gay is right or wrong. It is not up to us nor can we undo what GOD has already decided. That is homosexuality is an abomination in God’s eye. If you and others have a problem with something that is from God, take it up with him. Not us. Yet it won’t stop, because year after year, day after day your side thinks that somehow if you were able to convince enough humans on this planet to not see homosexuality as a sin then maybe God will turn around and what….change his mind? Foolish. I tell this to everyone who is pro gay, have a problem with what God has said about it…take it up with him and leave us alone about it.
Report Post »spikebu
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:23amYes. You have a right to be gay. I have a right to lie. I have a right to cuckold my husband. I believe I could even argue I have a right to beat my kids. Thankfully, I have the restraint (might be constraint) of The Holy Spirit. Even thinking about it means I have done it, in God’s eyes. We need to stop thinking in terms of man and remember God.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:46am@ Truthspeare – did younot make it to the end of the Book of Matthew? 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Exactly how do we go about making disciples if we keep it to ourselves? We are called to preach the Gospel which means explaining man’s sinful nature and the need for a Savior. It would be rather difficult to explain the need for a Savior by tolerating and congratulating sin.
I suggest an examination of the scripture and much prayer to help sharpen that “Truth Speare”
Report Post »spikebu
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:47amThere is no argument! Don’t you get it? You either have faith in God, or you don’t. The Way has been know for at least 2 thousand years. The time for arguments is over. It’s time to choose. Help your friends and family.
Report Post »skyaky
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:57amYes, we are to show love to others. No, it is not loving to see someone headed towards destruction and not try to warn them. Kindness, absent of truth is not love.
Your analysis that the current unconstitutional targeting of religious freedom is smallish, is naive at best. This is one of the founding principles that made this country great, and I believe brought God’s favor and blessing. Yes, there are huge economic issues on the horizon. They have been brought about however, not by one poor decision but by tens of thousands of poor decisions. This one however, if find incredibly creepy and I believe is just a glimpse of what is headed our way, when we will be told to bring our churches in line with government mandates. The left has loved to twist the so called “separation of Church and State”. Now when it fits their needs, they suddenly think that there should be influence by one on the other.
Again, you are right to show God’s love to other, just make sure that your foundation in that is scriptural and not left wing humanist tolerance of anything no matter how depraved.
Report Post »DYNA
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:58amBeing “gay” is another misnomer in this world of twisted words. The word gay had a completely different meaning before the 1970′s. The twisted personalities and shortened lives with their bodies falling apart doesn’t look like the original definition of gay to me. Another misnomer is the word “progressive” as it is not progess, but is regressive and oppressive.
It looks like one way to mislead and deceive is to change the meaning and definition of words.
Report Post »skyaky
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 8:10amAlmost forgot, you are going to get your wish with a “Leader that will unite us”. Unfortunately, it is not good to be united with evil. We know that these things are coming in the end times, when humanity will unite around such shallow things as unity absent of truth and morality. It is still frustrating and a little freaky to think that we might actually be witnessing the final steps in this process.
You can find your hope in a great earthly uniter, A.K.A. King who simply squashes those with divergent views. I will follow the King of Kings.
You consider yourself a Conservative Christian. You should really take a timeout and consider what it is that is shaping your worldview. Is it indeed scripture, or is it scripture bent to fit worldly ideologies. And please don’t get frustrated or offended by that suggestion. We all can benefit from blocking out other influences every now and then and truly seeking truth straight from the source, not twisted by those around us with motivations other than truth.
Report Post »DYNA
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 8:14am@Truthspeare
The sting of sin is death. Death includes all the manifestations of being separated from God. One of the many curses of the law of sin and death is poverty. Choosing the sin over the Redemption manifests itself in many destructive ways and includes poverty. Morality and economics are not separate issues as there are judgments of this world.
Report Post »NE1
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:03amIt would be one thing if all that the Gay community wanted was to be left alone have a “live and let live” attitude! But they do not! They want more than to be accepted, they want to enculcate our children and make Christian values obsolete! They have come ‘out of the closet’ and now want to push Christians ‘into the closet.’ They use sophistry, lies, propaganda, mariginalizing of people who hold to conservative views and every other form of deceipt to propagate their ideals.
YES, there is a concerted effort by the gay activist community to indoctrinate and normalize homosexuality. The sad thing is, it’s working! Notice how over at least the last 10 years in almost every movie or TV show there is at least one gay character. Notice how lately, the new talking point is to refer to conservatives/Christians as “in the dark ages,” or something to that effect.
Nobody wants to be the “hater” or the one in the crowd to speak the truth and say “The Emperor is not wearing any clothes!” So, unless Christians speak the truth, nobody will!
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:29amDiane TX
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:40am
Just “love” your concept of – “I’m OK, you’re OK” How far does your acceptance of sexual depravity go? Does it include adult male on male child?
_______________________________
Another Christian idiot, like this “minister.” First and foremost America is not a theocracy, we are not governed by a book compiled 1,500 years ago based on the myths and legends of ancient goat herders.
Homosexuality is not sexual depravity, no matter what your bigoted high priests tell you. Additionally, every American is granted the same freedoms to live their lives as they see fit and bend to the morals of fools.
Report Post »mycomet123
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:18amSO, your solution is don’t judge. Well you can love people into hell if you want! True Christian LOVE is standing for the Truth & telling people that what they are doing is a SIN. If someone you love is driving over a cliff do you just let them because it’s their life & they can kill themselves if they want? It’s hard to take a STAND, it’s so much easier to preach TOLERANCE. Well the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not one of tolerance it is one of standing for the TRUTH no matter the cost!
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:58amEncinom – You Marxists want to take away the rights of Christians to live their lives as they see fit and have them put in jail or have them killed just for believing the way they do. You lefties have killed more people than any religion has.
Report Post »Diane TX
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:09am@ chameleonx,
No, I’m referencing the concept of “time” in the scientific world. It was decided by the religious and non-religious to use the birth of Jesus Christ as the line to record the history of the World. Even those who have no religious beliefs agree that Jesus Christ was an actual person. Muslims also agree that he was a real person. As to the Roman and Greek Gods, no one agrees that they were real persons – that walked on Earth. They were Deities that were invented by Royalty and Rulers to hold power over those they ruled. Julius Caesar declared his self to be a god. Do you believe that Julius Caesar was an actual person, or a fictional character?
Report Post »Diane TX
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:24amI also want to add that ONLY the Roman Catholic Church has endured for over 2,000 years. Jesus Christ told Peter/Saul that he was the “rock” that his Church would be built upon. Peter was the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church. That’s why I remain a Catholic. I believe that the Catholic Church was actually founded by Jesus Christ, himself, and I believe that Jesus Christ actually was a real person.
Report Post »RobMac68
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:16amPeter was the first Pope???? I am going to have to read up on that one. I thought Peter was to reach the Jews and it was Paul/Saul that was sent abroad to the Gentiles to reach them and build churches. Why did you put “Peter/Saul”?
Report Post »MrldPatriot
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:49am@Diane, God bless you! I’m with you on a lot of what you say however I do beg to differ on one important issue. Peter was not the first pope. The Catholic church was not started until approximately 350AD. Peter and the other apostles were part of the purest form of the Christian Church – before it was watered down and defiled by denominations and people who wanted to control others by twisting the truth. Catholics only say that Peter was the first pope to bring more credibility to their form of Christianity. If you research the actual Greek wording used in the Bible the word for Peter was “petros” or “little stone”. Yes, Peter is one of the foundational stones of Christianity but it is Christ who is the “Corner Stone”, the standard that everyone else is to be fashioned after. Christianity is built on Christ, not Peter or anyone else. For a little more background, see http://www.equip.org/perspectives/the-first-pope, and for more see (not as gentle as the 1st site but still has a lot of truth and good information) http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?rome_peter.htm . Again, God bless you for your desire to stand up for the one true God and his Son, Jesus Christ!
Report Post »spikebu
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:04amWhat I was wondering. Peter was always Peter. Saul was converted on the road to Damascus and became Paul. Hadn’t Peter denied Jesus twice by the time the **** had crowed? or something like that?
Report Post »tvtailor
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:15amI believe that Jesus was a real person and a prophet as well. He was also one of MANY hundreds of prophets at the time (although one of the most popular ones) and his stories were recorded by oral history for hundreds of years before a group of christians in approx. 400AD decided what stories the bible was going to include.
No educated person disputes the fact the Jesus was an actual person, but most educated people also agree that the ‘miracles’ in the bible stories were just likely that. Stories. And most educated people also take the bible as a general guide to behaviour, NOT verbatim, word for word.
Report Post »maccow
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:07pmTVTAILOR
Report Post »To believe what modern writers say about words written some 2000 years ago rather than what the words say themselves strikes me as less then educated. When we allow modern thinkers to determine for us what ancient words are clearly capable of saying on their own, we make our selves someone else’s fools. Read the bible for yourself and ask yourself what does God, through the original penmen, intend for me to learn from this passage? Who does Jesus intend for me to understand Him to be.
We can choose to read God’s word with the same modern day spirit of doubt and skepticism that Satan used in the Garden of Eden, (read Genesis 3, “Did God really say..”) or we can choose to view God’s word through the Spirit of truth that originally authored it. The choice is yours and the fruit of that choice will be self evident.
Contrary to what you think, there are millions of us well educated individuals, especially in the light of modern science, who don’t narrow-mindedly limit ourselves to only what the physical world can show us. It is only in this century that time became recognized as a fourth physical dimension of our existence. Einstein opened the door to the reality that what we view in the physical world cannot be all that exists. But I will stop short of using your own condescending line about what every truly educated person knows, because it depends not on your education but on what you choose to believe.
Does a masters degree in stupid make me smarter than
pwatkins
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:38amhttp://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/12/10657866-lesbians-are-cool-t-shirt-puts-massachusetts-school-in-national-spotlight
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:35am“According to witnesses, the leader in that effort also forced the young ladies to chant a manta of sorts about remaining pure.”
Then they sang a stingray about sobriety, and recited a dogfish about not taking the lord’s name in vain.
Report Post »spikebu
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:14amAnd the Sunfish refused to shine on them!
Report Post »spikebu
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:18amLong live Piers Anthony, and all of his punnish fans!
Report Post »iamgorilla
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:11amWhat an IDIOT! This clown needs his head examined. Just the type to have a metal/rap band.
Report Post »therockczar
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:19amYOU are an idiot!
Report Post »Red1492
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:09amChristian Metal Band? That’s hilarious.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:06am@CAPTAIN CRUNCH: I do not believe in Good and evil. Sin is a fictional concept promoted by religion. In my opinion Jesus was a fiction character as well. I do not believe abortion or homosexuality is evil. Homosexuality is natural in many different species of animals including humans. I looked on Google to see how different animals either abort their unborn offspring or what will happen if they cannot provide for their newborn offspring. Here is a good answer from Yahoo Answers.
“Yes, in some species, it is true. When a mother feels like her resources are extremely limited and knows she will not have enough to nourish the fetus, the fetus is abort as a survival mechanism.
Most animals cannot induce abortion on purpose, but rely on the physiological means to induce it, if necessary. I’m sure there are scientists that argue that no animals can really induce abortion willingly, and that perhaps the young are simply aborted because of physiological reasons. What the author of your book is pointing out is that fetuses are aborted well before the mother’s body ejects it as in the case of a miscarriage. They consider it to be an abortion rather than a miscarriage because the mother somehow is able to avoid waiting until she is completely depleted of nutrients, therefore suggesting that she willfully induces it.
Report Post »http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100410054941AAI1Ial
angiea
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:23amTalk about extreme, do you have any brain cells still living? Perhaps you want to compare yourself to a Norway rat, but I do not. I am human, not an animal. Thank God for people who will spend the time to help inspire our youth that God made them wonderfully, and in His own image,
I’m so glad, Chamellou, that I don’t live in Your make believe world.
How bizaar, talk about http://www.180movie.com/
Report Post »Zeke2020
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:26amThere’s a difference between something being “natural,” as in the natural order, or something simply occuring in nature even though it’s aberrant. The examples of certain animals displaying homosexual tendencies is evidence that………aberrant behavior occurs in animals also! So what? Some animals eat their young. Are you going to suggest that’s “natural” and we should do it as well? Let’s talk about Black Widow spiders and Praying Mantises. (I guess husbands everywhere should watch out.)
Homosexuality, by any concept of what’s natural, is USELESS. It perverts and negates the primary purpose of sexual intercourse, which is to propagate the species. Truly, if animal behaviorists were speaking about a particular group of creatures that were engaging in homosexual conduct, they would say that’s one SCREWED UP group of creatures. LOL. They would be extinct before too long…
Report Post »Diane TX
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:27am@ chameleonx
What? You believe that Jesus Christ was a fictional character? How do you rationalize the existence of the Roman Catholic Church? How about Vatican City? What about humans using A.D. – “in the year of our Lord”, to mark time? Also, in the marking time mode, B.C. stands for “before Christ’. Why in World would everyone decide to use Jesus Christ as the moment to delineate “time” if he was a fictional character?
Report Post »Athenswren
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:39am“For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.” – 2 John 1:7
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:39am@DIANE TX and Angeia: Humans are animals and I view all religion is man-made. Various species have different means of sex and live birth. In our minds we do not understand that process. Christianity has had a big impact on the history of Europe and the world. There are various calenders in use. One which is Julian calendar. By your logic Various Gods and Goddess would exist because there are ancient temples or holy cities. People are dedicated in making sure their faith is practiced in society. Once you understand the history of the Julian calendar you’ll see it was created before Jesus and is used by some countries throughout the world.
Report Post »http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar
In my book there is no evidence to support Jesus as a real person.
chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:40am@ATHENSWREN: Looks like today is annual cheery pick a bible verse day.
Report Post »ArgumentumAdAbsurdum
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:10am@Diane
Report Post »BC/AD wasn‘t devised as a dating system until 525 and wasn’t widely used until much later. Even the catholic church didnt start using it until about the 12th century. To this day most people in the world dont use it, instead either using their own culture’s calendar or when refering to the gregorian calendar use “Common Era” CE and “Before Common Era” BCE. So a dating system created 500 years after the supposed life of it‘s inspiration and who’s use, relatively speaking, isnt actually that widespread (certainly not “everyone” as you put it) is hardly proof of the existance of a historical Jesus. What on Earth does Vatican City prove? Its simply a glorfied church. Is the Parthenon proof that Athena exists? The fact of the matter is there is no objective proof of a historical Jesus. I’m not saying that there wasnt, there very well could have been, but outside of the Bible theres nothing to say there was. And before someone brings up Tacitus or Pliny, those are dubious sources at best.
Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:52amArgumentumAdAbsurdum
“What on Earth does Vatican City prove? Its simply a glorfied church. Is the Parthenon proof that Athena exists?”
The Vatican has been occupied since Peter the apostle. There is a direct line of unbroken history. When was the last time the Parthenon was used and what direct line exists today? Your comparison is very weak and proves nothing.
Report Post »BrianSTC
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:30am@CHAMELEONX. You don’t believe in good and evil? So Hitler and Mother Theresa are exactly the same in your opinion?
Jesus was a fictional character? Wow. Do you not believe in recorded history either? There are lots of other historical writings that mentions Jesus other than the Bible, FYI.
Sin is a fictional concept promoted by religion? Hmmm…. ever wonder where most of Western civilization‘s law’s are historically based? hint: Judeo-Christian values.
Homosexuality is natural? Oh really? Sex, in nature, is the way of procreating. That’s the whole point of it.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 6:54am“The Vatican has been occupied since Peter the apostle.”
Uh, the Vatican wasn’t established until 1929. Before then, popes resided in the general area… but only since 1377. Before then, the “Vatican” moved around a lot. In some years there were multiple popes. Sometimes it caused huge splits in the religion (heyo, Eastern Orthodox).
Might want to check up on your history.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 8:00amChrist IS The Son of God, died, and resurrected. He defeated death as our kinsman redeemer. Accept the gift or experience the 2nd death. The choice is yours.
Report Post »burnteye86
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:01amI didn’t quite get the tittle of this article using the term “Anti Gay” Christian band”. I don‘t think I’ve ever heard of a “Pro Gay” Christian band before. I mean, aren’t they just a “Christian” band? And doesn’t being a “Christian” band imply that you hold certain Biblical principals true. Is that how they are billed, as an “Anti Gay” Christian band?
Report Post »neiman1
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:49amToo far>? Are you kidding me. This is as over the top as it gets. Reminds me of the left when they go over the top. This gives everyone a bad feeling.
Report Post »Kaoscontrol
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:03amFrom the articles text I thought these guys must have been way intense, but after watching the video sample….what’s the big fuss? Progressives get so worked up about this stuff: “OMG! They said marriage should only be between a man and woman! PANIC!!! They said life is sacred and we shouldn’t kill babies and have sex all the time!!! FREAK OU!! Sign a petition! Limit free speech! Make conservative ideas illegal!!”
Report Post »Chill out, people! God’s just trying to speak to youth so they find something solid to hope in. No need to get your undies in a bunch!
Athenswren
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:50amThe speaker was right about how far our culture has fallen. Twenty years ago this talk would not have garnered national shock. Even Elton John sang songs like “When God Created Girls.” Now he says everything is beautiful but man/goat relationships?
Report Post »Athenswren
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:52amSorry, “Since God Invented Girls”
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:03am@ Noman ….Another who didn’t watch the videos and is reacting to the misleading headline I see
Report Post »One Man Progressive Wrecking Crew
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:48am“They reportedly told the girls that they would have mud on their wedding dresses if they weren’t virgins, advised them to take a submissive role in their marriages and showed images of aborted fetuses.”
Oh so he dared be truthful with them huh? I mean, is school the place for that, probably not and especially some band Christian or otherwise.. I mean, he’s a preacher or minister, well so says Sharpton and that whole fake Rev race-baiting cabal who the dems bribe not to run for office for a big chunk of the American Pie Ghetto style.
Report Post »One Man Progressive Wrecking Crew
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:10ambtw I agree with everything he said, everything.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:16amProgressives are shocked because of the mud on the dress comment. Sex should be saved for marriage. It should be reserved for your husband and no one else as a symbol of that special bond. Think of all the STD’s that would not exist today if children were raised by morally competent parents that do not accept the view that sex should be taught in kindergarten and condoms handed out. Condoms have failed to stem the epidemic of teenage STD’s as they do no good for oral copulation that is popularly practiced by students that do not want to get pregnant and actually believe that it is not sex. Thanks President Bill! Abstinence is the biologically and morally correct choice and if promoted as zealously as condom distribution and women’s right to abortion, STD’s AND abortions would be just about non-existent. Imagine that! Since there is no moral guideline for homosexual relationships, they have historically been multiple partner lifestyles. This is exactly how AIDS propagated so quickly. AIDS did not need to kill all the folks it did. It is the false belief that sex without consequence is ok. It is this attitude that has been one of the most destructive in the world today in my opinion.I am guilty myself, but even I see the truth in it. If you do not, you are not being honest.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:21amCorrection: the belief is sex has no consequence and that abortion and condoms eradicate the consequences. This is false and illogical as stated in my argument above.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:26amOld enough to have sex then old enough to deal with the consequences. Irresponsible parenting and especially the undermining of parental authority by our government and public education system is endangering the health of our children regarding sex.
Report Post »Red1492
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:21amYet nothing reprimanding men on their sexual mores. This is an inherent problem with Christianity and why they are losing followers. Christianity like Islam, blames women for male depravity. They hold women accountable for the actions of men. Men can’t control themselves, blame women. Men aren’t good fathers, blame his mother. Men rape women, blame women. Men make bad decisions, blame women. Women be submissive to men? This is why the evangelicals are labeled the Christian Taliban. Women want lives of their own and make their own decisions. They don’t need a man to do that for them.
I abandoned christianity in 1996 after the Fathers day sermon. On Mothers Day, our pastor delivered a sermon about all the evil women in the world and what makes a woman a terrible mother…instead of honoring mothers. Then on Fathers Day, our pastor talked about all the evil women in the world and how they make a man do bad things. My husband & I both decided together religion wasn’t for us. Pick a religion, any religion and you’ll find the degradation and subjugation of women. No thanks.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 12:20pmMelvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:16am
Progressives are shocked because of the mud on the dress comment. Sex should be saved for marriage. It should be reserved for your husband and no one else as a symbol of that special bond.
________________________________
That is your choice and opinion. Do not force your moral view on me. Do not force my children to listen to your churches brainwashing.
Abstinence is a moral choice, it not correct or biologically true. Abstinence only education that this preacher is pushing didn’t help knocked-up Palin.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 1:05pmencinom
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 12:20pm
Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:16am
“Progressives are shocked because of the mud on the dress comment. Sex should be saved for marriage. It should be reserved for your husband and no one else as a symbol of that special bond.
________________________________
That is your choice and opinion. Do not force your moral view on me. Do not force my children to listen to your churches brainwashing.
Abstinence is a moral choice, it not correct or biologically true. Abstinence only education that this preacher is pushing didn’t help knocked-up Palin.”
You are correct that it is my opinion. I provided logical reasoning to articulate what I based my opinion on. At what point is there any indication that I am forcing it on you? I see that in absence of a reasoned argument, you choose to assign the “Scarlet Letter” label of “Bible Thumper” to expect folks to accept your argument because you have officially declared a group Bible Thumpers, and therefore ending the argument in your mind. Do you not see the weakness of your position? Resorting to sophistry as a tool to argue your point only serves to deceive and desperately attempt to support the indefensible.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 1:25pmRed1492
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:21am
“Yet nothing reprimanding men on their sexual mores.”
Men are just as guilty. It take two to tango. STD’s cannot be transmitted if one is monogamous. It is society’s attempt to address an epidemic of abortion, unwanted pregnancy, and STD’s through false flag programs of feminism and rights that hide how insidious and dangerous immorality is to the body and soul. What do you think the impact of abstinence and monogamy would have on unwanted pregnancy, abortion, and STD’s? Would the women’s right to choose ever have had a champion? I say no because the issue would not even exist or be so rare and insignificant, it would not beg a solution. Immorality has brought this danger to body and soul upon our society. If you are not religious, you cannot ignore the impact on health and mental stability. Our society’s solution was to cover a lie in the truths clothing and use the “Scarlet Letter” labels of bigot, homophobe, racist, misogynist, to silence dissent because they know that their “fix” is not a fix, but a condom and birth control patch and clear danger to public health.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 12:02pmEncinom – You lefties have NO morals to begin with. And you lefties have your beliefs based on anti-Christian BIGOTRY while preaching tolerance and diversity. You lefties also have no problem with legislating your beliefs down everybody else’s throats. So you have no room to criticize people you perceive to be theocrats.
Report Post »Diane TX
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:48amThe right to life is not only a religious concept, but it’s actually written into the Constitution of the United States of American. Experiencing a miscarriage is not the same as deliberately murdering a potential human being that was conceived through no fault of it’s own. It‘s outrageous that the innocent potential human being receives a penalty of death because of the irresponsible actions of it’s parents.
It was also interesting that Elton John wouldn’t rape a goat. Does that mean that he’s anti-Muslim? I agree with everything presented in these two short clips, and don’t see anything wrong with what was presented. I also don’t see how any high school student was “traumatized” by factual information.
Report Post »dukeofpaducah
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 7:02am@diane TX….You rock!
Report Post »Read all your posts. You are definitely a true disciple.
tvtailor
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:29amA true disciple? Yes. A disciple who is uneducated in history and/or biblical history? Also yes.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 9:41amAnother bible thumpoer that wants a government small enough to block a women rights to determine what happens to her own body. The Christians are proving that they are just like the Taleban and other fringe religious groups.
Report Post »Docroxall
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:27amPolitical Correctness has eliminated the possibility of speaking the truth. We should have fought it harder, we should have INSISTED that freedom of speech is more important than a controlled agenda of progressive memes. But we slept, while the fix was put in. Now, the standard is to lie and rationalize behavior that ruins lives and makes us slaves to lies.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:39amPolitical correctness demands silence of dissenting opinion. It is a tool of tyrants to control society as a whole through false morality. Those that support politically correct ideas know that their politically correct agenda cannot survive critical scrutiny so they quickly intimidate any that do and brand them any number of modern day “Scarlet Letter” terms, such as bigot, intolerant, racist, homophobic, misogynist, etc.. The label is dreaded and will effectively silence the dissent of the weak minded and easily lead.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:40amcorrection easily led.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 5:45amOnly the weak minded will tolerate a lie to escape ridicule or sanction. I never compromise on my beliefs unless I am proven wrong through critical and close scrutiny of my argument and that my friend has yet to happen. Be a slave to a lie or be free through the truth.
Report Post »jessix
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:23amI’d make an example of this band and sic GLORIA ALLRUD on them, suing them for verbal ASSAULT and emotional abuse committed on underage males and females, and taking advantage of school children in a classroom setting.
Did any of the students have same sex parents? That would make the lawsuit more interesting. We Might as well put Ms. Allrud to good use and give her something to do when her attempted attacks on rush Limbaugh fail.
BTW: The group violated some sort of law created by Madelain Murry when they forced their religious views on the children. Can’t do what they did. That’s why the school officials are behaving so strangely – and paranoid.
Report Post »unbound1
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:05amTelling people what you believe and showing reasons why you believe it is not forcing religion on anyone. At the end of the day, they can still choose what they believe and do what they want to do. These kids are constantly hearing the other side of the story about why it’s okay, so what‘s wrong with showing them why it’s not?
Report Post »Diane TX
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:11amMadalyn Murray was murdered by one of her atheist followers. You should read the book written by her son, William J. Murray – “MY LIFE WITHOUT GOD”. He describes the Socialism/Communism attributes of his mother. He REJECTED all connections with the American Atheists in 1977. In 1980, he started the Faith Foundation, Inc., an organization that counteracts the forces of humanism and atheism in the United States.
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:15amSiccing Gloria Allrud on anyone is subjecting them to emotional abuse.
Report Post »Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:23amI can Understand having to see a play or something,but don’t churches have motivational speakers and music ministries? I see nothing educational here that parents can not teach at home and Ministers can not teach in Church. School is no place for anti-Butt piracy or anything else that is not Educational. Wednesday Evenings and Sunday mornings are for Church. Weekdays are for learning. That also includes USELESS Motivational speakers.Every time they left we wanted to drink or smoke or do drugs just so we would not be as lame as them!
Report Post »angiea
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:11amActually, schools are not for learning, but for indoctrination, surely you are aware of that. I think the school should be commended and applauded for their efforts in showing the other side of the coin.
Report Post »This is what I would hope my kids could hear/see in opposition to the immoral garbage that the media puts out on a daily basis. Extreme? When has good clean living ever been extreme?
Nunya.Bizness
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:10amMy new FAVORITE band!!!
Report Post »Kawligasdad
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:08amThis Group is dead on, they only spoke the truth and nothing but the truth. This lecture was awesome and should be repeated at every single Junior High and High School as part of the curriculum. Showing the Murdered Babies is the truth and is the only way to get through to these kids that Abortion is murdering a baby. Their speech on Homosexuality is right on the money as well. Marriage is between a man and a woman (Adam and Eve) not (Adam and Steve) or (Eve and Eva). It is funny how the Homosexuals and the Pro Choice(Pro Death) groups spout Tolerance but only if it in what they are preaching about, the minute a Christian comes along it is hate speech and intolerance, well Tolerance is a two way street and if you refuse to be tolerant then why should we?
Report Post »Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:26amThen Next week Obama and and an Imam can speak to them.Take your kids to church on Sundays,let them learn during the week.
Report Post »Red1492
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:25amAgreed Smokey Bojangles. I don’t want my kids exposed to any religion while at school. They are at school to learn – not be brainwashed. The right talks about how their children are being politically indoctrinated at school (which is true) but the right religiously indoctrinates just as the left politically indoctrinates. I don’t want neither of those scenarios for my children.
Report Post »Veritas
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:03amI didn‘t see anything there that I wouldn’t want my teenager to know. It is the truth and BTW, I make sure my kids hear it!
Report Post »Shego
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:03amDisgusting. Thankfully, I‘m out of high school and don’t have to sit through manditory tripe like this.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:16amThen this is for you:
http://www.180movie.com/
You can thank me later as well.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:30amHere are a couple of pro-choice heroes doing their part for a woman’s right to choose:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/two-abortion-docs-charged-with-murder-after-35-late-term-babies-found-in-freezer/
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:25amI KNOW it’s an abortion. I said as much.
Report Post »I said, in paraphrasing, an abortion is defined as something that ends.
To abort a mission, means to call it off.
A miscarriage is yes—an abortion, by definition.
But in today’s society, we call an “abortion” an abortion because it’s just the name it was given.
Again–we’re splitting hairs over terminology.
My point is not in the term, but in HOW the abortion is conducted.
Incidentally by miscarriage? Or by choice, in which case, that’s killing someone willfully.
JJ Coolay
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:28amThat was meant to be in the next thread, below.
Report Post »PaxInVeritate
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:37amMELVIN SPITTLE, thank you, thank you, thank you. I’m doing research on late term abortions for a Right To Life pod cast “LifeReport”. I was away for Christmas and didn’t remember to down load that when I got back home. Again, thank you.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:40pmPaxInVeritate
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:37am
“MELVIN SPITTLE, thank you, thank you, thank you.”
You are very welcome. I invite you to consider both sides of the argument. I have come to the conclusion over the years that the feminist movement and pro-choice were society’s false solution to immorality. Consider that in my opinion, feminism and pro-choice would not have gained a foothold had not society in general adopted the belief that premarital sex is a threat to health and soul and the issue of intentional abortion, unwanted pregnancy, and STD’s would not exist as the epidemic it is today. Instead we have our own government and the Dept of Education undermining the rights of parents leading to the STD health and abortion crisis we have today as they have chosen to condone the behavior as a protected right. Now we have reports of Australian eugenics proponents arguing for post birth murder of children as a parental right. Where does the madness stop? It will not stop if good people give in to being shouted down and labeled by politically correct agenda’s that cannot survive critically logical scrutiny of their argument. Those that champion morality cannot give in to the attack on their beliefs. We are already seeing gay, pro-choice, and birth control agendas being forced on our children by the force of law here in the morally corrupt state of California.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:00amAbortion is not “baby murder” and the gay lifestyle is not “perverted”. Show some respect and understanding.
Report Post »adeleeeee
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:11amTruth hurts.
Report Post »adeleeeee
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:13amTruth hurts!
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:14amThen this one is for you. You can thank me later.
http://www.180movie.com/
Report Post »mcsledge
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:17amAbortion is the murder of a living fetus. Abortion is a woman’s way of hiding the results (in most cases) of promiscuous sexual relations. The man is equally at fault. Abortion is anti-creation and therefore is anti-God for God commanded that man procreate.
Nature by its very definition represents a state of creation/procreation. Trees and flowers are pollinated; trees, flowers and weeds all create seeds for further creation. Insects create offspring. Animals create offspring. People create offspring. And you say that two men or two woman engaged in an act that is contrary to creation (nature) is not a perversion of the very act driven by nature?
Ignorance must be bliss.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:18amThanks Melvin. Here is a good side-by-side answer of that film.
Report Post »http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/180,_the_Movie
Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:22amI challenge you to back up your position. Abortion cannot be defended logically. Not one person has ever defended abortion without resorting to sophistry. Again, view this video and provide a logical and defensible argument if you dare:
http://www.180movie.com/
Report Post »Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:24amSo Molesting babies is ok?
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:30am@MCSLEDGE: I would have to respectfully disagree. It is a woman’s choice to to have an abortion. “Abortion is defined as the termination of pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus or embryo prior to viability. An abortion can occur spontaneously, in which case it is usually called a miscarriage, or it can be purposely induced…” Of course you wouldn’t say a miscarriage was murder. Abortion is not “anti-creation” or against some God. That is like saying cheerios is “anti-creation” because so and so. I would have to disagree with your view of the bible and creation. I feel you do not understand abortion and why a woman would chose to have an abortion.
Report Post »http://www.usbible.com/law/abortion.htm
When you read the bible you’ll see many mothers and children where killed by God. Whether it be in the Old Testament (Hebrew bible or Tanach) or the Christian bible.
chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:42am@MELVIN SPITTLE: I would view that poorly constructed and poorly argued movie. But I can already say I will support a woman’s right to chose abortion. Reading the side-by-side review and response by Rationalwiki I can say this movie is another typical Christian movie where they have poor arguments and resort to using Adolf Hitler. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/180,_the_Movie
Report Post »Like I mention review the link I offered. Do not be a hypocrite.
JJ Coolay
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:49amThat’s a pathetic argument.
Why would anyone call a miscarriage murder? A miscarriage is not someone choosing to end the life that is growing inside you. A miscarriage is incidental.
If two people were talking on a balcony of a 20 story building and one fell off, the other person didn’t murder the person that fell. But if the 2nd person pushed the 1st, it’s murder.
Report Post »One is incidental, one is a choice.
JJ Coolay
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:50amWOW.
Cheerios is anti-creation because of so-and-so.
Seriously, how old are you? Your arguments are extremely weak.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:57amchameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:18am
Thanks Melvin. Here is a good side-by-side answer of that film.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/180,_the_Movie
I asked for your argument. Not for anthers. I have seen this response before and I will give you a critical response to one of the counter points:
Here is the moral dilemma. Do you agree that killing an unwanted baby after they are born is wrong? I will assume your answer is yes.
If scientists themselves cannot determine where life begins, they generally acknowledge that they “suspect but cannot prove” that it logically may begin at conception.
If you believe killing a baby is wrong after they are born, how can you defend killing what possibly may be a baby? You are an adult and know that the issue is not decided yet would defend killing what could possibly be proven by science in the future is actually a life and not just a fetus.
Explain to me where life begins. If you cannot, you have no argument to support abortion if you believe that killing a baby is wrong after it is born. You can’t have it both ways.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:58am@JJ: That is the definition for abortion from when I searched online.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:00am@JJ COOLAY: I’m extremely sarcastic. My point is a man and woman having a child is not creation is neither proof of creation.
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:11amThe definition of abortion and I’m paraphrasing, is merely to end something.
Report Post »A miscarriage is a pregnancy that ended on its own.
An abortion is the typical name given when a mother CHOOSES to end the pregnancy, so don’t split hairs over the terminology.
Nobody calls a miscarriage murder because nobody killed somebody else.
But when someone CHOOSES to end a life, that’s murder. There’s the difference.
chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:16am@JJ: “Miscarriage or spontaneous abortion is the spontaneous end of a pregnancy at a stage where the embryo or fetus is incapable of surviving independently, generally defined in humans at prior to 20 weeks of gestation. Miscarriage is the most common complication of early pregnancy…” A miscarriage is an abortion. Just because you say it isn‘t doesn’t make it so.
Report Post »http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
venture291
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:18amwhat planet do you live on again
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:25amI can agree you guys present interesting arguments. I will continue to look into abortion, how humans are infected by abortion, what science says on this topic and how it relates to animals. We can go on and on. I’m not going to change my mind without serious study and I know I will not change your opinion on this subject. At least we respected one another during this debate-if you want to call it that.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:50am@MELVIN SPITTLE: “I would view that poorly constructed and poorly argued movie. But I can already say I will support a woman’s right to chose abortion……..Like I mention review the link I offered. Do not be a hypocrite.”
You asked for a respectful argument yet you have resorted to ad hominem attacks. You also admit that you are willing to trust rational wiki’s analysis without viewing the video being argued. I will not waste time on a closed mind. Convince me then of the morally superior pro abortion argument. I gave you my argument where is yours? You state that the Rational wiki argument is a good argument. I have given you examples of their logical fallacies. Are you afraid to view the video and respond with your critique? I have found some inconsistency with their video as well, but my argument is mine alone. What is YOUR argument? What point are you making with the miscarriage statement? Miscarriage is not a choice. Abortion is. How are they similar? I am arguing from a non-religious perspective although I am a Christian. As stated before, I do not believe in capital punishment but I would kill in defense of life. Feel free to chip away at my argument and feel free to continue the ad hminem. I will overlook it for the sake of the argument. I really want to understand your moral defense of abortion.
Report Post »mcsledge
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:18pmTouche’ – I would concur that there are very limited number of legitimate reasons for abortions (i.e., mother’s health, rape, incest), but the majority of abortions do not fall under these categories.
God is just. She who commits an abortion for viable reasons I believe will not be condemned. However, she who chooses an abortion due to inconvenience, selfishness, etc. will be condemned before God (not my words, HIS).
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 1:57amThis is just disgusting. This is why I dislike Christianity. Christians users on the Blaze; I know most of you are Christian, do you agree with this idiots comment? Do you actually agree with his lectures? This is disgusting! Bradlee Dean and his band showing pictures of aborted fetus; telling young the young girls to be submissive to their husbands. I can agree both men and women to save it for the special occasion. Of course I do not support sex till marriage. What this person did is wrong and I feel disgusted reading what happened.
Report Post »RobMac68
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:02amI feel disgusted that it is the norm to murder babies and considered disgusting to show those babies afterwards. If this effected one young woman enough to be responsible in her sexuality in that it saves one baby’s life, I can not judge them for what they did.
Report Post »Shego
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:04amWell said, ChameleonX.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:08amYes, both women and men should have more responsibly when having sex. In order to prevent the spread of STD’s and unwanted pregnancy. However I support abortion and I do not see it as evil. “Abortion is defined as the termination of pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus or embryo prior to viability. An abortion can occur spontaneously, in which case it is usually called a miscarriage, or it can be purposely induced. The term abortion most commonly refers to the induced abortion of a human pregnancy…” Wikipedia has a good article on abortion. A woman has the right to chose to have an abortion or give the child up for adoption or raise the child.
Report Post »adeleeeee
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:09amI disagree with him by presenting “Christianity” in a wrong way. This is why ppl see conservative in a wrong way through this. My Christianity is more relating to deeds not sermon/words. You see a good Christian by their deeds like Mother Teresa. This guy I don’t know… maybe he is angry… maybe because he hurts and haven’t got heal in a way… I can‘t judge this guy simply because I can’t…
Report Post »Don’t get angry with “Christianity.” Why don’t you read the Bible and make a judge by yourself. Why let a fresh influence on you with something that is so important which is related to your eternal life?
chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:15amI can agree with your comment ADELEEEEE. To be honest there is all kinds of Christians throughout the world. Even though I’m critical of Christianity I dislike Christians who are just “bad eggs”. What I dislike is Christians trying to enforce to religion on others and complain what others believe in, practice or whatever is either evil and/or a lie. We need to have respect in this country. I wouldn’t mind having a debate with someone who is against abortion. Just try to do it in a well though out and in a respectful way. I will treat you the same way in return.
Report Post »spacemanspiff78
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:18amBy that logic, you also hate Islam for the Islamic terrorists, Democrats for creating the KKK, and Africans for the warlords. Unless you’re hypocritical and only use that justification for Chritianity which is about par for the course in society these days.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:25amYes, of course I dislike Islam and Islamic terrorist. The same for the KKK (I doubt the Democrats had a hand in creating the KKK but I don’t doubt many American politicians were or supported the KKK), etc. What I dislike is people who are against reason, logic, common sense and respect. In my opinion religion and many religious people are against what I believe in my life.
Report Post »RobMac68
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:25amADELEEEEE…”My Christianity is more relating to deeds not sermon/words”
I am glad Jesus didn’t agree to this kind of “Christianity” or else we would have to erase Matthew chapters 5 thru 7.
Report Post »Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:29amI agree with his lecture.I do not agree with the location or the time of day. Make Religios lectures in Church….Or no church will have the band?
Report Post »adeleeeee
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:30am@CHAMELEONX to a certain point do you notice the pic of abortion? It offense you in a way it is presented but doesn’t it bother you the story behind the pic? The invisible hand behind the pic offenses me not the band who presented it.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:35amAs I mentioned it is a woman’s choice to have an abortion. Let’s say a woman chooses not have an abortion and she is struggling to raise the child. Will you help improve welfare so she can help pay rent, her other bill and buy food from the store? I always find it funny many conservatives can be pro-war, pro- death penalty, pro-gun; but a woman having an abortion? That is just ridiculous.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:38amchameleonx by your many xenophobic and theophobic comments you state that you want to have a logical debate yet in the same comment, you make illogical statements and assumptions. Yes it was the Democratic party that was pro segregation and started the KKK. It is a historical fact that is easily verified. The fact that you make such a statement shows your inability to present a valid argument and defend it. I am afraid you are not equipped to do so. Judging from your comments I take it you are a woman. I am respectfully stating my assessment of your comments> If you still would like to debate this issue, I recommend you get help. Substantial help.
Report Post »adeleeeee
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:42am@ROBMAC68 You are not helping here. I shouldn’t use the word “sermon.” How could I abolish what had Jesus taught? But … everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another. (John13:35) Isn’t Matthew 5-7 are more about deeds than words? Jesus is the words Himself, isn’t He?
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:46am@MELVIN SPITTLE: Melvin I have honesty defended my position on this topic and answered each users questions truthfully. Yes, we’re going to disagree. I can agree many democrats in the past were either member of the KKK or supported the KKK; as well many people of other political parties supported the KKK. Today you’ll be surprised to see many conservatives who are racist. All you have to do is look on the internet. Not all conservatives are racist but I have seen videos by many who racist. FYI I’m a man. 23 year old deist.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:51am@MELVIN SPITTLE and other users: I’m not an expert in abortion. My position is that a woman has a right to an abortion. Unless she chooses not to have one or takes birth control. In my view using the bible to support pro-life choices is hypocritical. Since I view the bible has many verses in where babies where killed in the wombs of their mothers or killed after birth. Furthermore, numerous examples exist in the Bible when and where God specifically commands forced abortions (Numbers 31:15-17, Hosea 9:14, Hosea 9:16). According to the Book of Genesis, God killed countless women, children and unborn babies of every species. That aside, there are multitudes of examples specifically written in Scripture that shows that God commanded abortions to take place; commanding a pregnant woman to be burned alive (Genesis 38:24); causes abortions to punish unfaithful wives (Numbers 5:21, 27-28); forcing the Israelites to kill the unborn babies of their enemies,
Report Post »“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” — Hosea 13:16
Not to mention, the Bible even says happiness can be achieved by killing children: “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones” (Psalm 137:9).
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/180,_the_Movie
Captain Crunch
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:56amSorry that you are so offended by the truth. It just goes to illustrate to you how you have been convinced that good is evil and evil is good. It’s called sin and sin becomes acceptable as we are brainwashed into accepting it as normal. Abortion is bad, homosexuality is bad. They both result in more evil. Evil is self defeating and ends in ones’ own self destruction. “…the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is life through Jesus Christ. Actually very simple, and logical.
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:58amAbortion IS evil and it has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with what is right and what is wrong.
Report Post »A baby that grows inside a woman’s body is not part of that woman and does not belong to that woman. It’s a separate life. The baby NEEDS the mother to sustain itself for 7 months or so, otherwise it could not live on it’s own, but that does not make it part of the woman. It‘s not like it’s her liver or her kidney. It’s a SEPARATE life. She can choose what she wants to do with HER body, but not the body or life of someone else. That is the crux of abortion and the 2 sides. People who are ok with or support abortion rights are not getting the fact that the human life inside of the woman IS NOT her own.
One Man Progressive Wrecking Crew
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:00amThey wanna show dead corpses and innards from humans on cigarette boxes so what’s so offensive about showing them what out of wedlock sex will end up costing far too many of the young girls, especially in urban ‘Schools’ which are just pre incarceration bins frankly, because I’ll bet half the teachers already woman and man are already trying to hump half of them nowadays in between periods, sick pun intended.
So that’s kind of a red herring when abortions are being done and babies are already being ripped from their young and developing wombs, I mean many haven‘t even barely had their first periods and these animals are preying on them and now the boys are hunted game for all these freaking liberal ’I am woman hear me roar’ chickies who rape young boys as well, their idea of equal opportunity I guess.
Go count em over at WND’s Big List…. women gone wild…http://www.wnd.com/2011/06/39783/
Report Post »adeleeeee
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:06amI am pro-death because you have to paid what you did. Actually I believe death penalty help to maintain human civilization.
Report Post »I am pro-war because G-d declare war on injustice. We sinful human being declare war in a wrong way but when a Hilter-like regime is on the rise we should do something about it.
You cannot bisect the problem on pro-something-anti-something as an argument. There is always something more than meets the eye.
About woman’s choice… do you know performing abortion has counter effect on woman’s health? When an invasive medical procedure conducts on woman’s body to stop the pregnancy which is already on the process is OK for woman? When you are having a baby, you don’t really have any choice. I had visited a salmon can factory and witness an accident happen during the middle of the process segment. They had no choice but to stop the process it costed them terribly because they have to restart the whole process of producing salmon can from the very beginning. All the unfinished can before the problem segment had to discard. I tend to think this is very like the process of pregnancy, if you stop it, it has profound effect on woman’s health. Why I heard no one talk about it?
Woman, we need to wake up. Chastity outside of marriage is the way to stop all these debates.
Zeke2020
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:13am@chameleonx
“Abortion is defined as the termination of pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus or embryo prior to viability.”
So, what constitutes viability? That the baby can survive outside the womb? Let me ask you this: what baby or even toddler can survive outside the womb without its mother? By that definition newborns and toddlers aren’t viable and should be eligible for termination as well. (That’s being argued by medical ethicists right now.)
When a woman is pregnant she doesn’t say, “I’m having a fetus!“ or ”I’m having an embryo!” She says, “I’m having a BABY!“ The only difference between that baby been allowed to live or being killed ”legally” right now is a matter of months. The equivalent would be to say that six months from now you’d be safe, but until those six moths pass you’re fair game and we can kill YOU. (Or me.) Do you see how illogical that is?
I have no problem with the graphic images. Like the German people before they visited the concentration camps, women today aren’t really aware of what an abortion DOES. They need to see it and then maybe they’ll twice before they support abortion….or have one.
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:21amZeke.. you’re absolutely correct.
Report Post »How many times have we seen on the news, someone leaves a newborn baby in a dumpster? If that baby dies, that becomes a murder.
That child cannot survive on his own at that point, no more than it can when it’s in the womb.
The idea of “viability” only pertains to whether the life can be sustained (with assistance from other people) outside the womb. But without the assistance of those other people, the “living” baby would die as well. So the idea of viability is flawed with regards to abortion.
Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 3:56amchameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:51am
“@MELVIN SPITTLE and other users: I’m not an expert in abortion. My position is that a woman has a right to an abortion. Unless she chooses not to have one or takes birth control. In my view using the bible to support pro-life choices is hypocritical.”
That is the second time you called me a hypocrite. Not once did I argue from a religious perspective. Your bias has blinded you and rendered your argument ineffective and unsupported other than it is your belief. Do you not have a logical argument to support your beliefs especially for an issue as important and personal as abortion other than it is your belief? Support your belief with a logical argument. You can call me whatever you want. I will sort through the name calling to extract your point.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 4:38amchameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:46am
@MELVIN SPITTLE: “Melvin I have honesty defended my position on this topic and answered each users questions truthfully. Yes, we’re going to disagree. I can agree many democrats in the past were either member of the KKK or supported the KKK; as well many people of other political parties supported the KKK. Today you’ll be surprised to see many conservatives who are racist. All you have to do is look on the internet. Not all conservatives are racist but I have seen videos by many who racist. FYI I’m a man. 23 year old deist.”
Not to be condescending, but it makes sense now that I know your age. I think you would gain some needed skill by studying the great debaters of their time, Plato and Socrates. Even they were fallible. I agree that you answered honestly. the question is do your arguments stand the test of critical scrutiny and logic. At 23 I struggled with articulating what I believed to be true into a logical argument. If I could not, I then gathered data to support what I believed but more importantly, questioned my own hypothesis critically. Unfortunately that is missing from debate. Rational Wiki is strife with hyperbole and an entrenchment that doe not allow possibility other than their conclusion. The irony runs thick at that site in my opinion. Ray Comfort is on the right track but he is like yourself in many ways in that he struggles to articulate his argument without hyperbole and emotional rant.
Report Post »Marine25
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 10:34am@spaceman
Report Post »I think christians claim the KKK. Started by a christian, southern, democrat, (N. B. Forrest) the organization doesn’t refuse members because of their party, but they don’t take non-christians. Nice try, but the klan is an admitted christians-only club.
jstan442
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 8:13pm!my-!you obviously don’t know anything about the Bible–you look up scripture but don’t use it in context–num. 31:15-16 nothing about abortions here–but they were told kill ALL the midianites–which they did not do-why? becoz they wanted the women(who have influence over men and these women were idolaters,possibly halrots-don’t think they are like women today–these were evil people )–the midianites were idolaters and gave their children to molech–a satanic god that they gave live babies into the arms of a statue that had a fire inside of it-does that sound decent to you??hosea 9:14,16 again no talk about abortion–but for the evil of israel of following the ways of the pagans around them hosea asks God to judge israel–having no children would be a terrible affliction—num 5:21,27-28 there was nothing ‘drink’ but if the woman did commit adultery then she would give herself up thru the fear of the side effects that this drink would bring–if she was innocent she had no fear and her husband would believe the rsults–ps 137:9 this verse wants what the babylonians did to the israelite children to be done to them–i think after 9/11 we know what that feels like
Report Post »LadyGreenEyes
Posted on March 15, 2012 at 12:03amWhat is disgusting is that people would rather teach teenagers immoral behavior, and lie to them about ending a life. Those are BABIES, and that “viable” crap doesn’t fly. Do you also condone killing the disabled, the elderly, etc? After all, they need people to help care for them, right? This group was very accurate, and nothing they said was wrong.
Report Post »bullcrapbuster
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 1:55amMusn’t inform the kids about baby murder and perverts.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:25amchameleonx
Posted on March 13, 2012 at 2:15am
“I can agree with your comment ADELEEEEE. To be honest there is all kinds of Christians throughout the world. Even though I’m critical of Christianity I dislike Christians who are just “bad eggs”. What I dislike is Christians trying to enforce to religion on others and complain what others believe in, practice or whatever is either evil and/or a lie. We need to have respect in this country. I wouldn’t mind having a debate with someone who is against abortion. Just try to do it in a well though out and in a respectful way. I will treat you the same way in return.”
Here is a respectful argument since you asked for it:
http://www.180movie.com/
You can reply with your respectful and logical defense for your pro-abortion position.
Report Post »