‘Anti-Mormon’ Pastor Defends Romney Endorsement: Obama ‘Opposes Biblical Principles’
- Posted on April 16, 2012 at 2:15pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Back in October, you may remember Pastor Robert Jeffress’ controversial statements about Republican president candidate Mitt Romney. The faith leader was introducing Texas Gov. Rick Perry at the Voter Values Summit in Washington, D.C., when he said that Mormonism is a “cult” and that it “is not Christianity.” Now, just months later, Jeffress has endorsed Romney, causing some to further criticize the evangelical preacher.
Pastor Robert Jeffrees
On Sunday, he appeared on “FOX & Friends” to discuss his take on Romney, Obama and Mormonism. Hosts Clayton Morris and Dave Briggs didn’t waste any time launching into what critics have said about Jeffrees, while asking the pastor how he rectifies his past opposition to Romney with his current support.
“I haven’t changed my tune. In fact, I never said Christians should not vote for Mitt Romney,” Jeffrees said when asked why his opinions have evolved. “When I talked about his theology I was answering a question about theology. And I still maintain there are vast differences between Mormons and Christians but we do share many of the same values — like the sanctity of life and religious freedom.”
Jeffrees maintains that there has been “no inconsistency” and that he has said that he would vote for Romney over Obama for some time now. Some of his past comments do seem to corroborate this claim.
During the interview, the pastor did dodge a question about whether he thinks Romney is a Christian. Instead of directly answering the inquiry, Jeffrees cited polls that purportedly show that most Christians see differences between their beliefs and those of individuals who describe themselves as Mormons.
“There’s every reason to support Mitt Romney in this election,” he continued, going on to claim that President Barack Obama “opposes Biblical principles.”
Watch the interview, below:
(H/T: Mediaite)
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Comments (162)
Taxpayer550
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 9:58pmWith all due respect to Pastor Jeffress, he’s entirely too emotional when it comes to arguing Christianity vs. Mormonism. Obviously, there are major differences between mainstream Christianity and Mormonism, but one issue on which they’re identical is adherence to moral values. Our present leadership is completely devoid of that! We’re not hiring a Senior Pastor, we’re electing a President. Obviously, Mitt Romney is a better choice for voters of faith than President Obama. He considers himself under Divine authority, while the President considers himself the highest authority. It’s time to reserve the differences of religious doctrine for the Sanctuary, not the political forum.
Report Post »basilva12
Posted on April 18, 2012 at 5:22pmI would agree with you if the religious right had not been touting ‘faith’ as the central theme of their agenda for the past 50 years. With faith the issue then ‘no’ a believer could not with clear consceince vote for a Mormon. I am sorry it is really clear cut. Mormons are not a sect of Christianity, they claim to have another revelation from God. Bible is real clear there is no other revelation. So with that in mind then no a person of faith could not vote for someone who openly esponses and different belief then their own. The best they could do and keep a clear mind is not to vote for the presidency, but vote everywhere else they believe fits. This is no different then any other paradigm (world view) used to navigate the world.
Report Post »fccblaze
Posted on May 1, 2012 at 12:07pmYes, the Bible says there is to be no other revelation: “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it…” (Deuteronomy 4:2). Oops, that’s out of the Old Testament! Oh yes, we want Revelation 22:19: “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” I think that was it. Oh, I just remembered that the Book of Revelation is NOT the last book chronologically in the Bible. John wrote other books after returning from the Isle of Patmos. Also, the Bible was not even compiled when John wrote his comments in the Book of Revelation. So, what did Moses or the Lord mean in Deuteronomy and John or the Lord mean in the Book of Revelation? Could they mean – as they stated – referring to “this book”: (paraphrasing) Don’t add to, delete, or change what I’ve written in this book, i.e. Deuteronomy or Revelation. Our Bible was compiled many years after these authors and NOT in chronological order, i.e. the Book of Revelation (and, of course, Deuteronomy) were not the last chronological books written in the Bible.
Report Post »LightvsDarkness
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 9:50pmThe problem I see with folks who cast a evil shroud around Mormonism, is that they are so blind to their own religiosity, that they do not realize that to an outsider, their own religion appears wacky. For example, If a jew tried to explain to an atheist the reason he or she believes in God, the atheist would call that person wacky because the whole idea of a God is so foreign to an atheist, so out side what is normal in that atheist little bubble, that to that atheist that jew would be a wack job for believing in such a thing as God. NO but you all already new that. Its not about that I suppose. Its about who you allow into you so called “club of real Christians, not false ones”. You dont want to extend the supposed privilege of belonging to that group to Mormons. I contend that before you propagate this trend, you take a hard look at yourself, and ask if you’ve done your due diligence, and you can stand up with honor and say, I know for sure what I am saying is true or at least to the best of my knowledge, and not just hearsay. Study from the Mormons, study from the anti mormons then think it out. Most importantly, after you’ve studied, ask God, because your soul is to important to trust any Mortal man with it, therefore, ask God in prayer. To learn about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (or Mormons for short) from Mormons go to http://www.mormon.org
Report Post »Tunesmith
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 8:01amDon’t look at anti-Mormon literature.
Don’t look at pro-Mormon literature.
Look at the Word of God, the only source of real truth.
Not the mormon ‘re-interpreted’ bible, not the apocrypha, not the Moroni additions to the scripture, but scripture and scripture alone.
Report Post »Doctor Nordo
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 11:13amTUNESMITH
Interesting that the Jews say the same thing about the Torah.
Report Post »basilva12
Posted on April 18, 2012 at 5:31pmI have done due diligence and stand ready to defend the faith. I have read much of the book of Mormon, studied as much as one can from outside the Mormon church and concluded what Paster Jefress said. “They are a cult,” not a different Christian sect.
Each faith has its rules by which it navigates, Christianity pulls from the Bible. I suggest the only avenue to people of faith who are also republicans is that they should not vote for the presidency, but vote for everything else. If they do not believe Obama is a Christian and it is clear that Mr. Romney identifies himself with the Mormon Church and is therefore not a Christian that is really the only choice.
To suggest that moral values is the test flies in the face of what Jesus Christ taught and spoke about concerning the pharisee and saducee. Whited sepulchres who tout their works, but who are dead on the inside. So works is clearly not a measure. So you can disagree with me and my reasoning, but it is Biblically based, which is a lot more then I can say for Pastor Jefress and other leaders who are clearly more interested in our political nature and the republican party then our spiritual natures.
Report Post »P8riot
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 9:34pmThe issue of “mormonism” will divide the right – not the left.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 11:01pmalmost all republicans know romney is a mormon and have probably made up their mind. the problem is the ignorant independents who will make all their decisions based on what they hear in the next few months. those are the ones you should be concerned about
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 2:25amYes, it will divide the right. That is why I have said that those who are for anybody-but-Obama had to first nominate anybody-but-Romney.
This will not end well for those of us who desperately want to defeat Obama. I do not believe we will win with Romney. To staunch conservatives he’s a flip-flopping liberal who invented Obamacare-the-prequel. And to fundamentalist/evangelical Christians he follows a counterfeit Christ. So these two key components of the gop base will remain unimpressed and unmotivated in the general election.
And the rationally-minded independants … a great many of them will simply not be able to oust our first black President in favor of a man who’s Church taught that black skin is a curse from God.
Bob Dole was a bad choice. John McCain was also bad. But Mitt Romney is worse than either of those two in terms of his ability to beat to guy the Dems are putting forward. Too bad. We really, REALLY needed to take back the Presidency this time.
Report Post »LightvsDarkness
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 9:11pmI challenge all those who believe The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (or Mormons for short) is a cult, to do their own due diligence and look up in a dictionary the word cult. What you will find is that all religions fit the definition. One definition is: A system of beliefs.
Report Post »A synonym for cult: Church. Of course that is just a very general definition that you will find. If you really want to search out a book on cults they may define it differently, appealing to extremes in their definition. So then, perhaps it never entered into your head that there are good cults, like a baptist congregation of believers, and cults that are bad, like that Manson dude from the 60′s and all his followers. As for calling Mormonism a bad cult, I expect you now to qualify your statement if you feel inclined to call Mormonism a cult. So you could say Mormonism is an evil cult, evil would be a good qualifier. There would be no confusion. But actually, the word cult has got such a bad rap, that when someone says cult, people automatically associate it with something evil. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, to me, does not fit the evil definition. The Church is not Close minded, it funds a huge University system that produces all sorts of research, in all sorts of fields of study, and you don’t have to be a Mormon to go there. Evil cults isolate their members from outside thought. There are many more examples to illustrate my point but I am out of space.
CW3147
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 11:09pmI actually want to defend the pastor. I remember watching the original video when this came out. The Pastor justified his claim by saying Mormonism is a theological cult and (Key phrase) that is did not align with “Traditional Christianity.” As a fellow member of the church, I interpret this into The Great Apostasy Christianity. So I interpret this into inferring that his definition of a cult is a church that does not follow the type of Christianity that evolved after Christ died. So yes, by his definition of a cult, the church is a cult because it is different that other Christian churches.
Report Post »I also agree with him that Obama does not stand for biblical principals. Liberation Theology, I believe is a perversion of the gospel and is a tool for socialists. I don’t think that anyone has ever asked him about it, but it‘s pretty obvious that he believes in it after being in Wright’s church for 20 years while finding Christ through him.
While I still think that the Pastor should have used different words, I believe that he intends no harm and is sincere when he says he is supporting Romney over Obama.
justin.blake
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:25pmI never said truth was unknowable Dogtags. My assertion is that the truth regarding God is unknowable unless it comes from Him. Men in their finite minds work to find understanding, and think they have it, only to ‘discover’ down the road that they were wrong. Look at science and what was believed to be true and concrete 50 years ago is not today. But many reject the pathway of how He communicates His truth since the beginning of time. If you examine the Old Testament, He communicated His will to the people through chosen holy men called Prophets. These Prophets continually spoke Gods commandments along with prophesying about the coming of Christ. Once Christ came and fulfilled the words of those Prophets and the Law, He Himself communicated God’s will to His children, revealed a New Covenant to supersede the Old Covenant (Mosaic Law), suffered for the sins of mankind to break the bands of sin, and laid his life down and took it up again to break the bands of death. He then ascended to stand at the Right Hand of God (per Stephen’s vision). After He left, he provided the Holy Spirit as a witness of His truth to all mankind. His Apostles received continual revelation regarding His will (Paul and his vision, etc)So far sounds like we are speaking the same language about the same Christ.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:11pmfunny how the political tides will change a person’s mind. at least a dozen or so influencial republicans decided mitt was it after it became apparent that he would probably be the nominee
Report Post »hecowe
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:41pmWhat’s funny about? Like that didn’t happen with Obama and Hillary in 2008? It happens every political season for one side or the other.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 11:07pmthanks for the reminder – both parties suck
Report Post »The Realist
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:59pmLook-I have nothing against Mormons, and I have never had a problem with Mitt Romney’s Mormonism-in 2008 or now, but I’m sorry-it’s false teaching and ub-Biblical. For true Christians, they do not “hate” you but would rather not see you deceived and stand before Christ on judgement day and have to tell him that nobody warned you or tried to tell you that you were following a false religion.
Be also warned that “simply believing” (James 2:19 You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.) or “acting nice”/“doing good works” (Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God) will not get you saved either.I suggest a number of people, Mormon or not, read some of the questions here: http://www.gotquestions.org/search.php?zoom_sort=0&zoom_query=mormonism&search.x=0&search.y=0
I implore you folks out there-to consider that you have been misled. The liberals have been misled (albeit to a far greater degree-to outright evil, with their open support for communism, Marxism, etc) and most of them REFUSE to consider that they have been misled. Conservatives are better, smarter than most of them-can you not even consider admitting to yourself, that like the liberals, you may have been misled? Have the courage-your eternity may depend on it.
Report Post »Bearwolf
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:07pmAnd I would say vice versa
Report Post »The Realist
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:25pmBearwolf
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:07pm
“And I would say vice versa”
-I’m sure you (and many others) would. Problem is, true Christianity and the King James Bible (preferably) have had plenty of historical and archaeological evidence to support that it is the true word of God and teachings of Christ. The Bible is also clear at least THREE times, that nothing is to be added or taken away from it. It needs no supplementary books.
Report Post »justin.blake
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:39pmRealist – That is the oldest argument that if examined with any true effort, falls apart in less than one minute. The book of Revelations, was written before the Four Gospels (Rev – 60-68 A.D., Mark approx. 70 A.D., Matthew approx. 80 A.D., Luke and John approx. 90 A.D.). If the book of Revelations says nothing is to be added to “this book”, it is clearly not referring to the Bible as a whole, which was compiled many years later, nor to any book other than Revelations. Furthermore, there is scripture in the Old Testament, that, if you applied the same argument, would wipe out anything after the Pentateuch.
Report Post »The Realist
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:52pmjustin.blake
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:39pm
“Realist – That is the oldest argument that if examined with any true effort, falls apart in less than one minute.”
Book of Revelation is not the only book that says it, hence as I stated above at least three places in the Bible say this: “Although the warning in Revelation 22:18-19 is specific to the Book of Revelation, the principle applies to anyone who seeks to intentionally distort God’s Word. Moses gave a similar warning in Deuteronomy 4:1-2, where he cautioned the Israelites that they must listen to and obey the commandments of the Lord, neither adding to nor taking away from His revealed Word. Proverbs 30:5-6 contains a similar admonition to anyone who would add to God’s words”
Report Post »http://www.gotquestions.org/Revelation-22-18-19.html
**With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is correct?**
http://www.gotquestions.org/correct-religion.html
Bearwolf
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 9:29pm@ the realist
Report Post »We all have our points of doctrine that we defend with different ideas and interpretations. I just always find it funny we people support their argument by saying “I’m right because the bible says so”. We can see from this thread that people interpret the same passages of scripture differently. Same passages, different interpretations.
Bearwolf
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 9:38pm@ The Realist
Report Post »I find it interesting that people can read the same passage of scripture and interpret it differently. I think that makes it difficult for people to state that they are right “because the Bible says so”. I personally believe in the doctrine from James 1:5. The Spirit of God will testify of the truth to us.
P8riot
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 9:55pm@BEARWOLF – Great point. It is irrefutable that the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are based on biblical scripture… even if we interpret them differently than other religions.
This is a perfect example of what was happening in biblical times amongst fellow believers:
changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant, Isa. 24:5
there be divisions among you, 1 Cor. 11:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, 2 Tim. 2:18
being led away with the error of the wicked, 2 Pet. 3:17
Luckily, many were wise enough to turn to the Prophets and Apostles to teach them the truth.
Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”
Those who rejected the prophets and apostles fell away from the truth. Those who prayed to know if these prophets were true prophets of God were blessed for their obedience and wisdom.
Today the Lord has once again blessed us with a living, true Prophet. His name is Thomas S. Monson. The ONLY WAY to know if what I’m saying is true is to read his words and pray about it. Read, watch, or listen to his words here – then pray about it –
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/speakers/archive/2012/04?lang=eng&speaker=+Thomas+S.+Monson&view=speakers
I promise you that if you pray to know the truth, with a sincere heart, you will feel the spirit of God touch your heart – then the rest is up to you!
…
Report Post »…
P8riot
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 10:03pm@BEARWOLF – Sorry – the first paragraph was for you –
The rest was for The Realist and anyone else who does not know that God once again speaks to the world through a living Prophet and twelve apostles – exactly how Christ himself set up his Church – which is now called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 10:54pm” Problem is, true Christianity and the King James Bible (preferably) have had plenty of historical and archaeological evidence to support that it is the true word of God and teachings of Christ.”
Oh, I didn’t realize it was comedy night.
Anyone who puts the KJV on a pedestal and claims it’s full of anything but terrible translation errors and changes to help found the Anglican church is full of it. It’s the Bible, but one of the worst (and unfortunately) most common ones out there when it comes to actual translation. Someone who takes it as the gospel truth (pun not intended) is usually the kind of person you’ll never be able to discuss theology with reasonably.
Report Post »rebart
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 11:26pmTHE REALIST is a very confused person. He claims his “christianity” is biblical even though any educated person knows that the concept of the three-in-one Trinity was made up by church leaders under duress by Constantine. This concept of the Godhead has caused people like the realist to persecute, murder, rape, and burn at the stake anyone they don’t agree with. Oh, yeah, witch hunts too, I might add. Just look at the modern version of “witch hunts”: Some Protestant clergymen carry on the same way they did back in Joseph Smith’s day in Missouri where the governor issued an extermination of Mormons order on October 27 1838. Mobs, many led by Protestant ministers, finally did murder Joseph Smith, and that extermination order was not rescinded until June 25, 1976. Not much has changed when you look at the attitude towards Mormons in the last primary elections. In some southern and border states the hate is still the same.
Report Post »ProudKansan
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 12:59amBeing raised a Baptist, I learned from the New Testiment about Jesus and believed in him. I’m not sure that I progressed very far in that faith. Attitudes were very stern, Lots of fire and brimstone sermons. I always felt guilty. I thought that I was going to burn in hell for dancing a hula, as a child. Of course, we were shown an anti-Mormon film and warned about immoral, crazy things that they do. I was familiar with the immoral things that members of the Baptist Church were doing. Even cigarette smoking once Church let out. It just left me wondering. God led me to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Hardest thing to overcome to become a Mormon: accepting the fact that what you have been taught up to the point might not be all there is. I knew that there had been Prophets in the Bible, but now? I “impossible”. When I finally reached a point of sincerety, wanting to know if Joseph Smith was a Prophet, I read his history very carefully, having faith (James 1:5) that God would answer me. As I read, a feeling began to fill my soul; I stopped and asked, dear Father is this true. I heard in my head, “Yes”. I felt the love of God completely fill my soul. The Holy Ghost had answered my prayer. Please respect my beliefs. Read, Ask sinerely, with humility. http://www.lds.org…listen to the conference talks. I’m forgiving, being forgiven, loving and serving others more. Faith, Hope, and Charity. You can’t have them without obeying Christ. Believe him.
Report Post »GWashington2012
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 1:25amYour statements seem to indicate you have not read John 14 and other New Test books for a really long time). Study and then pray about what you have read…”James: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask God…”
http://www.mormon.org
http://www.lds.org/family/proclamation?lang=eng
JOHN 14-God the Father, Christ the Son and Holy Ghost the Comforter
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
15 ¶If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter…
21 He.. that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away..I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
JOHN 3
Report Post »16 ¶For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
P8riot
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 1:28am@PROUDKANSAN – Thanks for sharing your awesome experience!
Report Post »The Realist
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 8:59amLocked
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 10:54pm
” Problem is, true Christianity and the King James Bible (preferably) have had plenty of historical and archaeological evidence to support that it is the true word of God and teachings of Christ.”
Oh, I didn’t realize it was comedy night.
Anyone who puts the KJV on a pedestal and claims it’s full of anything but terrible translation errors and changes to help found the Anglican church is full of it. It’s the Bible, but one of the worst (and unfortunately) most common ones out there when it comes to actual translation. Someone who takes it as the gospel truth (pun not intended) is usually the kind of person you’ll never be able to discuss theology with reasonably.
–Locked, you as a flaming liberal atheist troll have “no dog in this fight.” Go stir up your crap somewhere else or head back to Huffington Post. Your opinion on this (or frankly any other matter of importance) is about as useful as dog excrement on the bottom of a shoe. Don’t you have a Starbucks or 7-11 window to smash out somewhere?
Report Post »The Realist
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 9:35amrebart
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 11:26pm
“THE REALIST is a very confused person. He claims his “christianity” is biblical even though any educated person knows that the concept of the three-in-one Trinity was made up by church leaders under duress by Constantine.”
–Check out http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html for starters
“This concept of the Godhead has caused people like the realist to persecute, murder, rape, and burn at the stake anyone they don’t agree with. Oh, yeah, witch hunts too, I might add. Just look at the modern version of “witch hunts”: Some Protestant clergymen carry on the same way they did back in Joseph Smith’s day in Missouri where the governor issued an extermination of Mormons order on October 27 1838.”
-WOW. Yeah that’s it-all us Christians are out to kill people who don’t believe what we do. Dang, and here I thought we were keeping that under wraps. Yet I’m confused? Lol. Tell you what I‘ll consider that I’m “confused” if you consider that you’re INSANE. While the witch hunt thing may have some truth to it, it’s ANCIENT HISTORY dude. People of all walks of life did crazy things. Come back to present time-and reality.
Report Post »flanny
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 2:45pmRealist,
Report Post »Everyone is mislead but you?
The Realist
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 6:02pmflanny
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 2:45pm
“Realist,
Everyone is mislead but you?”
–Never said that. I will tell you, that everyone not following the Bible, and the Bible alone is misled-yes. God makes no mistakes. He didn’t “forget” to include a book or two or three. All roads DO NOT lead to heaven. “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me-John 14:6. As much as that may offend some people, it’d be better you were “offended” and maybe learn the truth than spend an eternity separate from God.
Report Post »P8riot
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 7:50pm@ The Realist –
You’re joking right? You said that God “didn’t “forget” to include a book or two or three.” You do realize that God did not compile the bible, counsels of men did – right? God most definitely inspired the books that are now contained in the Bible, but he did not compile them and hand it to someone to print. You need to do some homework on how the bible was compiled and by whom and when.
Report Post »jado1981
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 11:20pmNo, that’s right, we are to believe a guy who was a pedophile who used seer stones to read words out of a hat that no one could see, and as it was “lost”, the re-translation was then changed to something else (certainly not because it was just made up).
When Christ came to the earth giving himself up as a worthy sacrifice, so that unworthy people (believers) can have his grace that is alone the payment for our sins, we are made whole and our salvation is sealed. When someone comes along and says, well, you need to do this too, for salvation, there is a problem. Was Christ’s perfect life and death not enough now?
Report Post »basilva12
Posted on April 18, 2012 at 5:40pmWow, you had me until the rant at the end. I am a Christian, a believer, a follower. I also happen to be a liberal, highly educated, archaeologist, evolutionist. The only thing that matters in my little rant is that I am saved by Grace. I am smarter then some and less so then others. I would not presume to give the rant you did as a believer. There is only one source of true Wisdom, which I thought you knew, but maybe not. So brother/sister just a quick reminder – it is not a about us. It is all about God’s revelation and His love. We are actually incidental and inconsistent little beings. That is why it is about Him who is neither incidental, nor inconsistent.
Report Post »TheycallmeJoker
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:58pmWell at least Romney’s not a communist hahaha!
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:09pmyet
Report Post »bullcrapbuster
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:41pm@DogTags your inaccurate bible quote….“You will become like God”
Satan mixes truth with lies just like you do. The bible actually states..Gen ch 3 V5 “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” That is a true statement, unless you think that God does not know good from evil, or that Adam and Eve already did.
Report Post »In verses 3 and 4 Satan lied. When they partook of the fruit Adam and Eve became mortal and would surely die. Adam died at the age of 930 years which is less than a day in the Lords time.
Try to get off the doctrinal pablum and try some meat and potatoes. You sound as foolish as the self rightous progressives who slavishly follow the mantra that everyone who disagrees with them is totally lost.
P8riot
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:51pm@bullcrapbuster – funny enough, every anti-mormon posting here seems to be spiritually lactose intolerant, let alone ready to leave their spiritual vegetarianism (I know you’ll get that one)! This of course applies to the hateful anti-mormons who try to tell me what I believe, not those who sincerely ask a question.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:23pmp8triot
Report Post »we have discussed before what would happen if the democrats attack mormonism. you have said that people like me do not need to worry about ‘defending’ mormonism because the church is well equipped for it. Well, it has been off and on for a few weeks and i have not seen a single influential mormon step up to the plate. I give you A for effort but where is the cavalry???
P8riot
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 9:32pm@SOYBOMB315 – I think you incorrectly remember what I said. I‘ve never said that others don’t need to worry about defending mormonism because we “are well equipped to handle it” – I said that you should not defend mormonism but rather religious liberty. Avoid falling into the liberal trap to be distracted – as many conservatives here are – by false issues.
Honestly, the mormon thing will only be used to divide the right – not the left. We’ll see if it works.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 10:56pmP8riot
Report Post »ok well i guess that is even less desirable position to be in. When MSM and left organizations tell the sheep of this country that mormonism is a cult….we’ll just tell them they shouldnt talk about religion. Then we can be cowards and hypocrites at the same time.
P8riot
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:23pmIt really doesn’t matter to us if this guy, or anyone, thinks we are “Christian.” I don’t remember seeing a copyright symbol next to the title “Christian”…
However, I’ve been saying all along that we need to combine our similar VALUES to do some good in this country… just like with Prop 8.
Report Post »RocketSled
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:35pmI think people are Christians when they are doing things that Christ would do. That is how you can identify the real ones. Just look around and when you see someone helping others being charitable, lightening someone else’s load then you are looking at a Christian. How else would you find a real Christian?
Report Post »azsmitty
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:17pmIt never ceases to amaze the idiocy surrounding religous people………….seems “my way, or the hi-way” applies to all. In this case however we are faced with a situation that requires indepth thinking. Christianity and most other religous entities teach the priciple of “Choices” to be sorted out by their Creator……………..Islam however tells its followers to purge the infidels in this life time. It makes sense when we are faced with a President who has a tendency to “dictate” rather than lead, we need to unite to get rid of him.
Report Post »zoro51
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:00pmI(SLAM N MORMONISM both are MAN MADE CULTS except one fondels n makes u rape young girls call them WIVES.. the other KILLS you for NO reason one is filled iht HATE n death the other FALSE BOOKS of the bible that never were even written… both have NO comparison except mormonism HATES GAYS yet they have a HIGH capacitry of gays in the church.. one endorses HATE N DEATH for NO reason.. the other seculded cities of CONVIENTLY made RAPES.. incests.. .. so whats the latter of the 2.. mormonism .. islam KILLS they murder for NO reason,……
Report Post »Kankokage
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:06pm1 point for creativity, -9 for spelling and grammar, -90 for outright falsehoods.
Fail.
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:12pmThis guy gets it. Why stop at Mormonism and Islam, keep it going.
Report Post »P8riot
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:27pmI heard Zoro was really gay…
Report Post »dietrdeb
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 1:21amZoro you need to take off the mask and try a pair of glasses. The lies you just spewed haven’t been believed by any sane person for over a hundred years. Take your head carefully from your @$$ and find out something true about Mormons.
Report Post »BagpipenAZ
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:56pmThe pastor just said Mitt Romey embraces Biblical principles (3:45) So if he’s not a Christian why does he embrace Biblical principles? Sounds like someone is confused.
Report Post »infortheride
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:43pmHaving lived in Utah and escaped, I have seen and lived under Mormon rules. They are not all that friendly especially if you are not Mormon. After seeing two of my Asian-American granddaughters be shunned for even a sleep over was bad. I then had two other grandchildren, both from white persons, they were invited for sleep overs within their first week living with us. It was hard to see that happen and left a bad taste.
Report Post »Romney like McCain, RINO’s but better than Oblamer
joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:52pmbut.. but.. but.. you don’t know! Go to mormon.org! You have to go to their website to see that they’re actually awesome, nevermind what you may have experienced or seen.
Report Post »RocketSled
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:04pmI am sorry that you had bad experiences and treatment from members of the church. My wife is asian and my kids are mixed. We have had similar experiences with some members of the church. The only explanation I can give you is that not everyone that is taught correct principles decides to live them.
Report Post »I believe the gospel is true and I wish more people would try to live the gospel.
bullcrapbuster
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:09pmSo you were held prisioner in Utah?? Did you ever really live in Utah? I smell a troll.
Report Post »Kankokage
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:10pmIn all my life I have never seen this kind of bigotry in my church, anywhere in the world. Every congregation I have been part of is and has been multiracial. I’m sorry if this really happened, and those who would be behind it would have to answer to God, but I have to say I find it a little too unbelievable.
Report Post »kalli
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:13pmBorn and raised in Utah in a small town, I became a Mormon at age of 9, but kissed the church goodbye 10 yrs. later. I found that living in UT, if you are not Mormon, they look right past you as if you don’t exist. I have learned that UT Mormons are the biggest snobs on earth, but found that Mormons from any place outside of UT were much more personable, hospitable, and friendly. As for their being Christians, may I say that no one has to belong to any church to be a Christian. A Christian is a follower of Christ, and believes John 3:16 that he who believes in Him shall not perish…that Jesus died on the cross in our place to cleanse us from sin. A Christian is to go throughout the world and spread His gospel, His light, and His promises to others as an obedient servant to God. The Mormons are as much a Christian as any other follower of Christ.
Report Post »P8riot
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:21pmIf this is true, its because of those individual people – not the religion. Good thing I don’t judge the southern baptists by the way Britney Spears acts…
Report Post »READRIGHTHERE
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:27pmIt’s unfortunate that you have had a negative experience with members of the LDS church. It is also unfortunate that you have such a bad taste in your mouth concerning Utah.
My wife and I moved to Utah just after we were married, pursuing education in a family friendly and less expensive locale than our native southern California. I grew up LDS but always in the “Mission Field” (Outside of Utah.) At first I thought it was awesome that there were church houses on seemingly every corner, and wards that were only a few blocks square. (My home ward in the San Diego area covered 600 Square miles.) But the transition had its negatives. I found it somewhat disconcerting to be surrounded by the same people I went to church with. They were in a position to know everything about me, and I was in a position to know everything about them.
I have since become aware of the prolific existence of MINO’s (Mormons in Name Only) and those who are the salt of the earth and truly dedicated to their faith. Needless to say I love some neighbors more than others. And because I just might qualify as a MINO myself I am sure that such mixed feelings are mutual.
One thing I have learned is that bigoted thinking doesn’t work here either. No two Mormons are the same (Harry Reid for example, I just don’t get how he thinks, but c’est la vie!). As soon as you have an expectation (negative or positive) Mormon’s will disappoint (Sometimes happily). The moral is… Don’t be a Bigot.
Report Post »justin.blake
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:31pmI do have to admit that people in general IN Utah can be a bit insular. Of course in Utah, the assumption is that you are Mormon, and if you are not, you do not end up connecting with the local congregation easily because many of their activities are in some way church related. However, as a Mormon who has lived in both Utah, Idaho, and other places around the country, you will find that outside Utah, Mormons are pretty much like anyone else. Some of my best friends are Korean, Japanese, Black (I am not PC if you can tell – there are plenty of ‘black skinned’ people not of African descent), Latino, etc. So as a whole, the members of the Mormon church are as accepting of people of all cultures and colors as anyone else. In fact, as many US Mormons have served their missions in foreign countries, they may be more willing to embrace those of other cultures and backgrounds than the average American who has never left the country. So I am sorry that you experienced what you did, but please don’t paint the entire religion with that brush.
Report Post »Bearwolf
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:14pmSo you are defaming a religion because your grand kids didn’t get invited over to a sleep over? What is your point? Mormons aren’t “Christian” because you can point out “unchristian – like” behavior amongst its members? Ya, that stuff would never happen outside Utah. Live under Mormon rule? What are there different laws in Utah that allow the LDS Church to “rule” over you? My guess is there are reasons you want to discredit the LDS Church so you went looking for them. ” they’re racist“ or they ”ruled over me”.
Report Post »Ms Jefferson
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 11:19pmI am a Mormon but have been inactive for most of my adult life. That being said, I am pretty strict (at least I try to be) with my daughter. I have a no sleepover rule in my home. I know it sounds pretty harsh, but I got the advice to not allow slumber parties from my daughter’s Jr. High counselor. She said that I would be shocked to know of some the abuse that has taken place in our school district. So the decision was made based on information I had received and not because of my religion, or judgmental views. Now if the family who denied the first two little girls is the same family who welcomed the newcomers then I may be more inclined to agree with you, but if it was a different family then I believe your judgment of my religion based on only this situation holds quite a few holes. I try very hard to look at the bigger picture instead of my own paradigm.. Read this on Paradigms… very interesting http://geniustypes.com/principles/paradigms/# . I know how upset I would be if I were in your position, but I wish with all my heart we could all try to ‘seek to understand’ instead of making quick assumptions. FYI… your lil ones would be welcomed over at my home any day!
Report Post »ProudKansan
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 1:16amI spent about 25 years being hurt, feeling left out, not loved. Just didn’t fit in. I listened to the Conference talks this April, learned that I have to forgive everyone who has hurt me, ask for forgiveness, and was given peace and love for others. Satan is just wasting your time. You can choose to obey Jesus. He did the suffering for us in the Garden. Take those steps, accept His atonement. He can deal with those who treat you poorly. Let him. Your burdens will be lighter. God bless you. I know how you have felt. You can feel better. Once you overcome this, you will have more strength to progress with other commandments. Prayer, reading scriptures, etc. Line upon line, precept upon precept, until you overcome all things. I say these things with love, your sister in christ
Report Post »dietrdeb
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 1:28amHave been a Mormon my whole life. My brother married an Asian girl from Thailand and has felt a little weird at times too…but that is just how people are. Take your white but to Detroit and see how many sleepovers you get invited to. Mormon’s can be clickish…but in our defense most other religions call us a CULT or the OCCULT. See how friendly you would be after a hundred and fifty years of debasing persecution. We came to Utah because of extermination orders…so next time why don’t you try extending your hand first!
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 2:46pmInfortheride
Same here. I lived in the Avenues in SLC. When the neighbors found out we were Catholic, they wouldn’t let their kids play with mine. I used to get resumes in the mail that put membership in the LDS as one of the qualifications for a job.
Report Post »GeorgieBaby
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 9:56pm@DISABLED VETERAN – The Avenues area very religiously and culturally diverse part of Salt Lake City. I used to live there. I know from experiences that this neighborhood is not one of those insular Mormon neighborhoods that you say. It’s not. There are more people who are not members of the church than there are members.
Report Post »Bearwolf
Posted on April 18, 2012 at 2:11am@dismayed veteran
Report Post »I’m calling bullcrap on your post. As already mentioned, the avenues of SLC are well known to be a diverse group, little population of LDS. If your kids were shunned good chance it wasn’t just by LDS families. Actually unlikely. Second of all a resume is what you send to employers not what they send to you. You must be pretty stellar to get all kinds of requests from employers in the mail. Maybe you could be on Romneys job council when he gets elected. Bottom line: you are full of crap.
ImMormon
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:35pm**Sigh**
http://www.mormon.org
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:43pmSeems like a reliable source. Tell me, will I find anything about the human rights violation perpetrated upon Mormon youth on this website?
Report Post »P8riot
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:41pm@IMMORMON – It does get tiring constantly rebutting the SAME falsities over and over doesn’t it?
@JOE – I’m born and raised in Maricopa County (AZ) and LOVE SHERIFF JOE! He is the only guy in the country right now who is actually doing anything about the illegal immigration pandemic!!! So what’s your problem with him since you use his picture and mock his name? Liberal?
Report Post »dietrdeb
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 1:30amJoe R Piehole do you ever get tired of sounding like a total idiot?!
Report Post »flanny
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 3:04pmJoe Piehole,
Report Post »You have no idea what you are talking about. Where do you get your information? Obviously from some rumorous untruthful source.
smorningstar
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:32pmI am a Christian and a Mormon.
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:43pmThat’s because “Christian” doesn’t mean anything. Even Muslims claim that Jesus was a prophet. However, if you follow the New Testament, you most certainly cannot be a Mormon. Furthermore, if you think a white guy named Joseph Smith was a prophet, you are a fool. Actually, if you think anyone is or was a prophet, you are a fool.
justin.blake
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:33pmOh Boy Piehole…then forget all about the Old Testament and all of the Prophets and Prophecies that were written there, which btw, prophesied about Jesus.
Report Post »READRIGHTHERE
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:57pm@piehole
I am so very glad that not only am I not related to you, and am therefore not required to tolerate your personality, I am also blissfully unaware of us even being neighbors, thanks to the anonymity afforded us here at the Blaze. Having said that, I find it bitterly ironic that in response to your post I would simply flip your comments.
I have studied, and read, and referenced, and have tasted both sides of the arguments, and I can’t see any true New Testament student finding any difficulty whatsoever in considering the LDS faith as a repository of truth. I am not saying the answers are obvious, they never are with God, everything takes faith, but just as there will never be irrefutable proof of the veracity of my faith, there is most certainly no proof of its fallicy. Rumors are rumors, and must be regarded as such.
From my perspective, you simply have not travelled down your path of learning far enough to see the forest for the trees. And I am sure that the feeling is mutual. I respect you right to your own opinion, but I do not respect your vitriol. Its tiresome.
Report Post »Ms Jefferson
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 11:39pmAnybody want to guess what Pie hole really looks like….. All he/she is doing is stirring the pot and you are all buying into his/her hate. Do you really believe that “it” believes the crap ”it” is spewing. Probably a very board middle age ” ? “ who is trying to find some meaning in their life by seeing how many people “it” can get a reaction from….. Ha Ha…. I have just played into “its” little game. Oh well, what can I say, I am a people pleaser….. Hee hee
Report Post »Kankokage
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:27pmAh, the acrid stench of the anti-mormon bigot, so insecure in their own beliefs that they have to invade internet forums to spread their bigotry, hoping that, while the majority will see them as undesirable, some fool here or there will believe their words.
Here’s a tip: if you want to learn about a church – ANY church – ask the church, not its enemy. Give yourself and others the chance to exercise their own God-given judgement.
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:29pmI’ve had conversations with the bicycle riding Mormons, and I’ve never met an unpleasant one. My issue is with their irrational belief system and the history of human rights-violating practice.
Report Post »Kankokage
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:56pmI seriously have to ask: what is the human-rights violating practice? I’ve been a mormon my whole life, AND one of those bicycle-riding mormons, and I’ve never heard of a human-rights violation. Please, enlighten me.
Report Post »P8riot
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:47pm@KANKOKAGE – I was wondering the same thing… but was wary to take the bait he’s been laying on here (especially since I smell a troll since he just created the moniker a few weeks ago and has been replying to every thread spewing venom). I‘m sure he’ll say something like “mountain meadow massacre” or some other other smear campaign. It will be interesting to see if someone comes up with a new lie though! lol
Report Post »Truth_always_wins
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:27pmI don’t ever hear of Catholics not being Christian even though the “Christian” Community denounces some of its (Catholicism) key beliefs about Christ. So we have a religion emerge that believes in the bible and teaches its precepts (Revelation, Angelic ministration…) but because “All revelation stopped with the end of the Apostolic Era” this church cannot be true. Sure there are things about Christ that Mormons believe that Modern Christendom do not but that can be said about almost all the different Christian sects or Churches who believe a lot of different things. A Christian is one who believes in Jesus Christ and nothing less.
Report Post »flagkeeper
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 1:33amIf such an one wanted to learn about Judaism, they could just stroll over to to the local mosque and inquire. They wanted to learn about Reagan and naturally asked Carter.
If I wanted to really drive the point-
How about Christopher Reeve? Well, convinced that Reeve had surely been exposed to kryptonite, they sought to ask Lex Luther why Reeve lost his powers. As they suspected, it was kryptonite…
(Only illustrating an idea. No disrepect to Reeve intended.)
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:06pmThe truth is that Mormonism is a cult, just as any religion can be. However, this story says more about evangelicals than Mormons. Yes, Mormons are the most obviously idiotic religion in America. but evangelicals are the first to pass judgment, and in this case, expose themselves as political rather than faithful. This pastor, and people like him, don’t care about eternity, or growth of humankind, or anything positive that comes from religious experience. They care about power, and they view the current administration as one that doesn’t bow at every request of the idiotic evangelicals of this country.
Bunch of idiots, all promoters of established religion.
Report Post »RocketSled
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:21pmSo again if we assume you are correct then share with all of us from your wisdom who should we look to to help us correct ourselves? Give us the living example of who we should be following?
Report Post »Kankokage
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:24pmSaid the bigot.
Report Post »Gourdy
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:28pmFor someone railing against religions passing judgments, you’re certainly passing quite a few yourself. There is an ugly anti-religion strain in America right now. It’s only dividing us, not making us stronger.
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:32pm@RocketSled
You don’t need to follow anyone. Enjoy your experience here on earth, as an individual self. It is a privilege, and you are wasting it looking for someone to follow.
Report Post »RocketSled
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:43pm@Mr Piehole, with respect I have found it more productive to learn from the example of others that have the qualities and attributes that I desire to have myself and then do what I can to attain those qualities and attributes. In my early years I saw parents that treated their children well and decided that I would try to do the same for my children. I think my children would agree that it was a better approach then aimlessly experimenting with their lives.
Report Post »itsjustgigi
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:17pmMr. Piehole, I would truly appreciate it if you’d shut your piehole. You make Christians look mean, nasty and judgemental. I suspect you need to go back and read the new testament. It appears you missed God’s most important message for us all. I‘d tell you but it’s one of those things you can only learn by opening your bible, your heart and asking God to speak to and through it.
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:36pm@ItsJustGiGi
What made you think I was Christian? I most certainly am not.
Report Post »ClunkerT
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:10pmListen Joe.R.Piehole, you and all the rest of these people commenting here are being led down the road to no where. These little debates over religion accomplishes absolutely nothing. We had a debate about Obama’s 20 year hitch to the Marxist/Communist Black Liberation theologian Jeremiah Wright (Wrong) and it didn’t amount to anything but Wright (Wrong) being thrown under the bus.
Obama is a proven usurper, America just doesn‘t know it yet due to the black out by all of the media outlets and the enabling Congress that know it for a fact but won’t do anything about it. Obama is the “piehole” and is the most dangerous National Security risk in the country today. His Secret Service agents are angels compared to his criminal activity. If a President need a Top Secret clearance (they don’t) Obama would have been disqualified on many fronts. I know, I went through a couple of those clearance procedures and I know Obama would not pass step one. First of all he has no legitimate birth certificate, he has a forged selective service card and his SS# would have been flagged by E-Verify just for starters. The reason a President doesn’t have to go through the rigors of a back ground investigation is because the media and Congress and the Party national committees are suppose to do all of that. None of it happened with Obama, he was given a free pass. If you believe differently Joe. R. Piehole, prove it or shut the hell up.
Report Post »dietrdeb
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 1:37am@ JOEY Boy “What made you think I was Christian? I most certainly am not.” No KIdding!!!!!!
Report Post »flagkeeper
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 1:45amWell, looks like you got it all figured out. It really is that simple and you really are that smart. I am an idiot and other Christians are just too judgmental. Oh, if forgot, only those who have standards can be judged by them. How convenient. How revealing.
Report Post »RocketSled
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:02pmFunny thing that Mitt is in a Cult yet none of the 4 million he has paid in tithing in the last five years will end up in the pocket of Thomas S Monson the president of the LDS church. In fact not a penny of that tithing will end up in the pocket of any clergyman of the LDS church. That is because members and leaders are expected to provide for themselves and their families.
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:14pmPlus, black people are from a different planet. So, there’s also that.
Report Post »xyfbx
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:41pm@JOE.R.PIEHOLE (if that is your real name)
Report Post »Your inter-planetary references speak to you utter ignorance of LDS beliefs. I would imagine you hold the same ignorance on many topics that you comment on.
Kankokage
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:44pmUmmmmm what? I‘m not sure what theology you’re talking about, Joe, but it sure ain’t mormonism. Perhaps one of those weird hippie religions?
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:54pmOk, you caught me. I mixed up scientology with mormonism. Whatever.
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:00pmChristianity and Judaism are the 2 biggest cults in the world.
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 5:57pmMormonism is counterfeit Christianity and Obama opposes biblical prinicples. Where is the contradiction in that? See http://americancreed.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/counterfeit-christianity/
Mormonism believes the same lie the Serpent told Eve in the Garden of Eden “You will become like God.” Mormons believe that the Father was once a man and attained godhood. This man-god then impregnated his wives to create celestial children, which Jesus Christ is the first born. Jesus also attained godhood, and you too someday can attain godhood if you do the right things.
That is certainly not Christianity. As far as lies goes, at least the Mormon lie does tend to create quiet citizens. The lies Obama tells and believes creates disgruntled, vicious, discontented, obnoxious mobs like Occupy Wall Street, the Weather Underground, the New Black Panthers, Environment Liberation Front, Animal Liberation Front, etc.
Report Post »RocketSled
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:04pmAnd what does the truth and the true church create? Please give us the name of the true church and true “christians”? That way we can all observe and learn by the example of those following the real truth.
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:20pmOpen an New Testament, Sled, and start reading. You’ll see what the Church should look like. Does every single congregation in America resemble a New Testament church? No. But it would be a fallacy to then assume that all of Christianity must be tossed for not being “true” because of the imperfect people trying to live like Christ.
Report Post »RocketSled
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:27pmIf you know who is wrong then you must have some idea of who is right. Share that with us. Give us your idea of who comes the closest to the church that Christ created? Do you not have faith that this “Church” which is not a cult can stand up to the scrutiny of the group here?
Report Post »RareConservativeInWA
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:23pm<3 you dog tags. Your link inspired me. John 1 pretty much sums up the truth. God = Word = Word became flesh (Jesus). John 1:14 God = Jesus. And Satan's first trick he ever pulled was tricking eve into believing she could become a God. Gen 3:5.
Report Post »ksondere
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:30pmDogtags, It‘s such a world of irony isn’t it? Most evangelic‘s teach that Mormon’s aren‘t Christian because they don’t ascribe to the Nicene Creed. But it’s so confusing, the Nicene Creed was of course a series of Catholic Councils in the 4th century which decided the nature of God by committee. Of course what cause‘s me confusion is why Protestant’s defend Catholic doctrine so dogmatically, but on other occasions they kill each other. Thing’s I will never understand I suppose :-)
Report Post »flagkeeper
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 1:57amMuch of this bantering sounds so familiar…
2 Nephi 29
7 Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us.
Report Post »8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.
9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.
10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.
11 Yea, they have all gone out of the away; they have become corrupted.
flagkeeper
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 2:12amLuke 9
49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
It sounds like you are saying Christ’s grace is insufficient even for an imperfect understanding of doctrine, notwithstanding the unseen heart of a man. Therefore, it is up to what amounts to modern Sadducees and Pharisees to take it upon themselves to chastize, exclude, condemn, forbid and/or correct those who folleweth not with you? What a burden to bear…being worthy to cast all those stones must be exhausting, someone’s got to do it, right?
Good luck with that. So much for “good news”.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 5:50pmwe’re voting against obama, period.
obama’s a communist and so is his anti-American wife. but for even more proof than everything else they’ve done, look at their daughters names. seriously.
Report Post »the Left‘s savior’s FIRSTBORN is named for MAO…seriously… malia ann obama. == M.A.O. ..wow, China must be SO impressed.
and the younger one is actually named natasha ?! how much more Russki can you get. no wonder why Russia is laughing at this guy and all of his inane anti-America Traitor appeasing.
joe.r.piehole
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 5:56pmThe fact that you have existed in this world long enough to learn a language and communicate through a keyboard astounds me. You are clearly a very, very stupid person and I hope you haven’t already procreated.
Report Post »READRIGHTHERE
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:11pm@piehole
You did not just perch yourself on the precipice of assuming the right to compare the intelligence of one as inferior to your own! Now, now, I don’t expect much, but surely…Oh wait, nevermind. There I go again, ascribing innate abilities to one capable of finding and actually reading theblaze.com, let alone being able to set up their own account, profile picture, and use, what appears to be proper language and typing skills. At least before I could define you as misguided. I am so disappointed, well, maybe that is an exaggeration.
Report Post »Gourdy
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 5:44pmPeople, like this preacher, who call the LDS a cult simply haven’t read basic information about Mormonism. It’s kind of like we Catholics calling Protestant churches cults because they broke off from the original Church. To remain vital, Christianity will continue to have branches like Mormonism pop up from time to time in the future. It’s a good thing.
Report Post »xyfbx
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 5:59pmCatholics would call break away churches apostates.
Report Post »Tobnameless
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 5:35pmI bet 99% of Christians couldn‘t tell you accurately what Mormons believe or don’t believe. Most people could not tell you what the word Christian means. (Follower of Christ) While I have been a Christian since I was a preteen, it is sad to note that Christians tend to be the most judgmental and under educated people I have known. Just because a pastor says it, doesn’t make it true. I have heard many pastors say things that I could prove inaccurate scripturally, but the congregation takes it as the very word of God. Mr. Romney‘s faith is not relevant to his ability to lead this country any more than Kennedy’s Catholicism was a factor in his ability to lead this country. If you want to know what a Mormon believes, ask a Mormon; don’t ask someone else. My wife likes to say if you want to learn how to bake a cake ask a baker not a butcher. As far as Mormonism being a cult; yes, it is; as is all religions. Get a dictionary, a cult is a system of beliefs. Stop looking for a reason to make people look bad. Look for reasons to help others reach their potential to lead. Our country is in dire need of leadership. We haven’t had any real leadership is Ronald Reagan. We will stop being a country soon if we, the population, don’t step up and find a leader who wants to make this country great again.
Report Post »Gourdy
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 5:47pmAll religions are not cults!!
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:03pmThe real argument is not whether Mormonism is a cult. The real argument is if it is consistent with Christian theology. It is not. Mormonism is based on the same lie the serpent told Eve in the Garden “You will become like God.“ Just because it hurts the feelings of Mormons for me to say that does not make it improperly ”judgmental.” We are, in fact, to make judgments of the false doctrines people believe and preach. We are to oppose them, not just for ourselves, but for those who are listening to the lies.
Report Post »SilverBlaze
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:20pmI like your opinion.
Report Post »RocketSled
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:24pmSo then DogTags you are saying we should not strive to be like God. To be more Christlike? Should we not aspire to be more like our father in heaven? Why not?
Report Post »Gourdy
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:25pmDogtags, I’ll leave it to a Mormon to verify your understanding of their faith. Regardless, do you think his faith disqualifies Romney from being president … Or even just a decent, moral guy?
Report Post »xyfbx
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:38pm@DOGTAGS
Your notion about the importance of the Fall of Admin and LDS teachings are interesting.
How do you reconcile the notion of original sin taught in the Roman Catholic theology compared to evangelical theology? Are their difference between the two?
Report Post »Bronco II
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:41pmThank you for speaking truth.I study and I agree most christians listen to men ( no gender intended ) instead of getting into GODS WORD for themselves and learning what GODS SAYS not flesh they are imperfect as I and can make mistakes and can be a stumbling block instead of leading the lost to GOD let them learn of GODS LOVE FOR THEM.Cherry picking scripture and sugar coating it is not truth and worrying about the offering plate instead of being a shepherd to their flocks and feeding them no not food but GODS WORD and letting them know GOD sent us a Savior who died for our iniquities and sins so we might live in eternity.If they don‘t know their scripture they won’t know when their being decieved or misguided.THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE GODS TRUTH. Even the Pastor I study with tells us don‘t believe even what he says check him out in GODS WORD make sure what he is saying or teaching aligns with the word of GOD I have never heard a Pastor say that they usually not all act like they know GOD more then we do and play the one upmanship role they are no better then I and I’m no better then them even though I study chapter and verse I still have so much to learn but what I have learned has blessed my life and given me such peace in my heart so again thank you and GOD BLESS.
Report Post »etoddt
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:59pm@DogTags
So, if the real issues isn’t being a “cult”… and is in fact the orthodoxy… then why don’t traditional Christians concede that Mormonism is simly an “unorthodox Christian” faith? Wouldn’t that definition be closer to the truth? And then we could get away from all this useless “cult” and “non-Christian” back and forth we keep having to endure here.
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:41pmI don’t think it disqualifies him. That he can be deceived is certainly relevant (like his once position on the global warming hoax, and his government mandated healthcare in Mass.) Mormonism does have a tendency to make citizens that respect the law. Christianity does that too. But theologically, they are not the same. I will vote for Romney over Obama. Obama has forfeited the right to govern a free people.
Report Post »Doctor Nordo
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 11:51amDogtags, you keep throwing around that Genesis scripture but for some reason only in a truncated form, leaving out the rest of the sentence:
Ye shall be like God, knowing good from evil; not ye shall be like God, ruling over heaven and earth.
Report Post »flanny
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 3:18pmTobnameless,
Report Post »Well said!
abbygirl1994
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 5:27pmDid the Pastor do the back track dance!! I am still upset that he called us a cult! We are one of the fastest growing churches in the world! We are Christian’s! At least he will vote for for Romney!
Report Post »ksmike
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:01pmLet’s get over the “cult” name calling thing. In its loosest meaning of the word we are “A system or community of religious worship and ritual” (American Heritage Dictionary) so I will refuse to be offended, even if offense is meant. And I will not get upset when they say we are not Christian. What they are really meaning is we are not Creedal Christian–we do not believe the extra-Biblical creeds like Nicene, etc. That is correct. We worship Christ but there are admitted differences. But we do have much more in common–a respect for the rule of law, the 1st amendment, respect for life, the desire for less government regulation, a greater ability to exercise free will, and of course, an attorney general who will defend marriage. Let’s unify around what we have in common and be bigger than those who refuse to understand us and try to belittle us. We can have thicker skins than that, especially for a common cause.
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:15pmIf “Christian” mean “little Christ” then Mormons are not “Christians” in that sense either because the Jesus Christ the Mormons believe in did not exist. Your faith in Mormonism will sadly lead you to an eternity apart from God, but, at least we can “unify around what we have in common.”
There are those who merely ridicule you for believing in a (not so clever) lie. Then there are those who are genuinely concerned about you, that you wake up from your deception and believe in the only true God, Jesus Christ who ascended to heaven after his resurrection and did not live on earth in the Americas. You can have liberty here on earth, but a belief in Mormonism will only lead to tyranny in eternity.
Report Post »Kankokage
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 6:51pmDogtags, I implore you to learn of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I’m not talking about what your pastor or what some obscure website says; I mean go to the source.
Pick up the Book of Mormon, read it, pray about it, and follow the spirit. And when you die, please don’t be startled to see all the mormons with you in paradise.
Report Post »justin.blake
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:49pm@ Dogtags, I find it interesting how you can be so positive that your interpretation of Biblical text is more correct than the next guy. Furthermore, it is even more interesting that you have been given such a clear understanding of theology that Mormons are deceived, and headed for eternal suffering. I am curious how you came to those conclusions. Most of those that I know who espouse those beliefs usually rely on their, or their Pastors/Christian Sects Exegesis of biblical text. By this I mean the understanding they have come to based on their study of the Bible and the history/language surrounding said text. However, that all still comes down to a human being/beings interpreting holy scripture. Why do you think there are so many versions of Christianity? Can you not recognize that your interpretation may be flawed? Can you have the strength to do a deep and personal inventory and come up with anything other than the conclusion that you may not be 100% correct, and choose to live to the best of your understanding, without mocking and condemning those who have come to a different conclusion? If you cannot, then I would submit that you are the one who is living a lie.
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:02pmJustin Blake, I reject your assertion that truth is unknowable. It is illogical to think that. How can YOU know the truth that truth is unknowable? I’ll give you a few seconds to ponder that….
Ok, I’m back. Just because a whole bunch of people can take words and twist them does not mean you cannot come to the true meaning.
There is only one version of Christianity. God the Father, almighty Maker of Heaven and earth is God. Jesus Christ, who God who became a man (not a man who became god) sacrificed himself for my sin, died, resurrected in bodily form, and ascended to heaven where he sits at the right hand of the Father. God the Spirit came to earth as the Comforter. Any other version/interpretation is a lie.
I reject your accusation that I am mocking and condemning people who do not believe in the truth. My pointing out that people believe in lies is not mean, hateful, mocking or condemning. It is compassionate, because I want everyone to believe in truth.
Report Post »justin.blake
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:28pmSorry, forgot to hit reply Dogtags..I never said truth was unknowable Dogtags. My assertion is that the truth regarding God is unknowable unless it comes from Him. Men in their finite minds work to find understanding, and think they have it, only to ‘discover’ down the road that they were wrong. Look at science and what was believed to be true and concrete 50 years ago is not today. But many reject the pathway of how He communicates His truth since the beginning of time. If you examine the Old Testament, He communicated His will to the people through chosen holy men called Prophets. These Prophets continually spoke Gods commandments along with prophesying about the coming of Christ. Once Christ came and fulfilled the words of those Prophets and the Law, He Himself communicated God’s will to His children, revealed a New Covenant to supersede the Old Covenant (Mosaic Law), suffered for the sins of mankind to break the bands of sin, and laid his life down and took it up again to break the bands of death. He then ascended to stand at the Right Hand of God (per Stephen’s vision). After He left, he provided the Holy Spirit as a witness of His truth to all mankind. His Apostles received continual revelation regarding His will (Paul and his vision, etc)So far sounds like we are speaking the same language about the same Christ.
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 8:40pmSo where do we differ? Do you believe in “Another Testament of Jesus?” If so, we part ways. Do you believe God the Father was once a man and attained godhood? We part ways. If you believe Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer, we part ways. If you believe you, too, can attain godhood, we part ways. There is no compromising and allowing for “other interpretations” of core doctrine about the nature of God. Jesus is either the Eternal God, who was, is and is to come like Christians believe, or he is a created being like the mormons believe. There is no room for compromise. You either believe Truth, or lies. For him that has an ear to hear, let him hear.
Report Post »justin.blake
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 9:04pmAnd thus the disconnect. What you call Truth, another calls fallacy. There is no compromise on your end, as there is no compromise on mine. Truth is Eternal, and what I see and feel is Truth, from my own study (rational Exegesis) and my own confirmation of Truth by the Holy Spirit (Revealed Exegesis) has led me down my path. Not as a blind sheep, nor as a generational follower, but as a disciple of Jesus Christ who strives every day to become the man He has asked me to be. I dare not compromise on the Truth that has been revealed to me by the Holy Spirit, for I would be denying God. So I respectfully disagree with you, and wish you all the best. But I would at least ask that you respect the fact that my testimony of Christ is something I find as deeply sacred as you find yours. I won‘t bother to contend points of doctrine such as God’s spirit children, as my earlier post regarding Trinitarianism would also apply to the doctrine of ex-Nihilo. Let us celebrate that each of us has had sacred experiences with God and lives to emulate His Son, regardless of theological disagreements.
Report Post »thedweh
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 10:52pmright on justin blake!
Report Post »The Realist
Posted on April 17, 2012 at 6:13pmthedweh
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 10:52pm
“right on justin blake!”
–Just make sure you aren’t “high-fiving” your way into separation from God. All roads DO NOT lead to heaven. While Mormonism does have some core similarities to Christianity it also has many polar-opposite teachings that simply aren’t in the Bible. Christianity and Mormonism cannot BOTH be right any more than Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christians could be. God makes NO mistakes. He didn’t “forget” to include, or otherwise make available, additional/supplementary books to be used in conjunction with the one-and-only Bible.
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