AP Investigation: Drones Kill Far Fewer Civilians Than Many Pakistanis Are Led to Believe
- Posted on February 25, 2012 at 4:40pm by
Christopher Santarelli
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(AP) — American drone strikes inside Pakistan are killing far fewer civilians than many in the country are led to believe, according to a rare on-the-ground investigation by The Associated Press of 10 of the deadliest attacks in the past 18 months.
The widespread perception in Pakistan that civilians, not militants, are the principal victims — a view that is fostered by leading right-wing politicians, clerics and the fighters themselves — fuels pervasive anti-American sentiment and, some argue, has swelled the ranks of al-Qaida and the Taliban.
But an AP reporter who spoke to about 80 villagers at the sites of the 10 attacks in North Waziristan, the main sanctuary for militants in Pakistan’s northwest tribal region along the Afghan border, was told that a significant majority of the dead were combatants.
Indeed, the AP was told by the villagers that of at least 194 people killed in the attacks, about 70 percent — at least 138 — were militants. The remaining 56 were either civilians or tribal police, and 38 of them were killed in a single attack on March 17, 2011.
Excluding that strike, which inflicted one of the worst civilian death tolls since the drone program started in Pakistan, nearly 90 percent of the people killed were militants, villagers said.
But the civilian deaths in the covert CIA-run program raise legal and ethical concerns, especially given Washington’s reluctance to speak openly about the strikes or compensate the families of innocent victims.
U.S. officials who were shown the AP’s findings rejected the accounts of any civilian casualties but declined to be quoted by name or make their own information public.
The U.S. has carried out at least 280 attacks since 2004 in Pakistan’s tribal region. The area is dangerous and off-limits to most reporters, and death tolls from the strikes usually rely on reports from Pakistani intelligence agents speaking on condition of anonymity.
The numbers gathered by the AP turned out to be very close to those given by Pakistani intelligence on the day of each strike, the main difference being that the officials often did not distinguish between militants and civilians.
The AP breakdown paints a much different picture from that advanced by important Pakistani opinion-shapers.
Syed Munawar Hasan, head of the country’s most powerful Islamist party, Jamaat-e-Islami, recently claimed on TV that the strikes “are killing nearly 100 percent innocent people.”
Imran Khan, a popular opposition politician close to some right-wing Islamic groups, addressed a cheering crowd last April and said: “Those who lie to the nation after every drone attack and say terrorists were killed should be ashamed.”
He called for journalists and activists to go to the tribal region to see that the strikes were killing civilians, not militants.
Some analysts have been skeptical about carrying out on-the-ground investigations, assuming villagers would follow the militants’ narrative of high civilian death tolls to avoid reprisals. But the AP study showed otherwise. While some villagers spoke on condition of anonymity saying they feared for their safety, others let their names be published.
Many knew the dead civilians personally. They also said one way to distinguish civilians from militants was by counting funerals, because the bodies of dead militants would usually be whisked away for burial elsewhere.
An attack near Miran Shah before dawn on Aug. 10, 2011, was one of six on the AP’s list in which villagers said no civilians died.
A drone fired missiles at a large brick compound, killing at least 20 Afghan and Pakistani Taliban fighters, said Sajjad Ali, a local driver. The compound hit was known as a rest house for militants run by the Haqqani network, an Afghan group focused on fighting foreign troops in Afghanistan, he said.
The charred bodies were hastily buried in a graveyard more than a mile (2 kilometers) away, said Ali, who spoke to several people who attended the burial. Those who attended were not allowed to see the victims’ faces, he said.
Supporters of religious political party Jamaat-e-Islami demonstrated against the U.S. and NATO at the site of the an air strike in November. (Image source: Reuters)
A second man who spoke to people who attended the burial confirmed Ali’s account. He requested anonymity.
Before dawn on April 22, 2011, a drone fired missiles at the guest room of a large compound in Hasan Khel, a village in the mountains dominated by Hafiz Gul Bahadur, a Pakistani militant commander fighting foreign troops in Afghanistan.
The strike killed 25 people, including 20 militants, three children and two women, said Mamrez Gul, who owns a shop near the site of the attack. The militants were staying in the guest room, and the civilians were sleeping in a nearby room that was also destroyed by the blasts. A funeral was held for the women and children, but the bodies of the militants were taken away, said Mamrez Gul.
He said the women and children were relatives of the compound’s owner, Gul Sharif, a militant commander loyal to Bahadur. He survived the attack, said two villagers, speaking on condition of anonymity.
A U.S. counterterrorism official in Washington said no women and children were observed in the compound before the strike. But Mamrez Gul, taxi driver Noor Habib Wazir and farmer Gul Paenda Khan said they attended the funeral of the women and children.
A strike on August 14, 2010, on a compound in Issori Boikhel village also illustrated the danger to civilians who live close to militants. The attack killed seven Pakistani Taliban fighters and seven tribesmen, said Shera Deen, the owner of the compound that was hit. Safir Ullah, a student, corroborated the casualty count, as did a third villager who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Deen, who was not in the compound when it was attacked, said he lost two sons, a brother and three nephews, one of them 10 years old.
The seventh tribesman killed was 26-year-old Sohrab Khan, who was leading evening prayers for the Islamic holy month of Ramadan when the missiles struck, the villagers said. According to them, the Taliban fighters entered the compound to join the prayers, which would explain why they were bunched together with civilians.
The tribesmen were buried in a graveyard with a wooden headstone indicating they were victims of a drone attack, the villagers said. The Taliban fighters were buried in a different corner of the same graveyard in an unmarked grave, they said.
U.S. counterterrorism officials disputed the death tolls and other details of some of the strikes, including the exact locations. One said the U.S. “had no reliable evidence” that civilians were killed in any of the strikes examined and questioned the reliability of villagers’ accounts.
The officials all spoke on condition of anonymity because the drone program is classified.
Regarding the March 17, 2011, strike on Shiga village, the bloodiest attack investigated by the AP, U.S. officials familiar with drone operations said the group targeted was heavily armed, some of its members were connected to al-Qaida, and all “acted in a manner consistent with AQ (al-Qaida)-linked militants.”
But villagers and Pakistani officials said the missiles hit a community meeting, or jirga, held to resolve a mining dispute, killing four Pakistani Taliban fighters and 38 civilians and tribal police.
The militants were there because they controlled the area and any decision made would need their approval, said Gul Ahmed, a farmer.
Citing the number visible in the monitoring before and during the attack, U.S. officials said the total of dead was roughly half what villagers reported. But Ahmed said there were 42 caskets lined up at the funeral, and he provided the victims’ names.
Christopher Rogers, a lawyer who has studied civilian casualties in Pakistan from drone attacks and other military action, said that regardless of casualty tolls, the U.S. still needed to make the program more transparent to prove it is complying with international laws on who may be targeted and measures to minimize the loss of innocent lives.
“The percentage of militants killed is an important piece of this, but it is one piece of a larger picture,” said Rogers, who works at Open Society Foundations, an advocacy group in New York City. “The bigger issue here is the covert nature of the program, the complete lack of any transparency and accountability and the lack of information about how the U.S. distinguishes a militant from a civilian.”
The drone program is so secretive that only last month did President Barack Obama publicly acknowledge its existence. He said the strikes “have not caused a huge number of civilian casualties,” but gave no details.
Rights organizations have been unable to verify the number of civilian casualties caused by drones because of the danger and difficulty of getting to sites.
One London-based group, the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, has published drone casualty figures based on media reports, witness testimony and other information. It said strikes have killed between 2,383 and 3,109 people, of whom 464 to 815 were civilians. That implies the percentage of militants killed was roughly 70 to 80 percent. The group said an unidentified U.S. counterterrorism official insisted its civilian casualty figures were much too high.
Drone attacks began during the Bush administration. Obama has ramped them up significantly since he took office but slowed them down in recent months because of increased tension between the U.S. and Pakistan.
A poll conducted in May 2011 by the U.S.-based Pew Research Center found that overwhelming majorities of Pakistanis who were aware of drone strikes said they were a bad thing and killed too many innocents. Pakistani officials regularly criticize the strikes as violations of the country’s sovereignty, but there has long been some level of Pakistani acquiescence or help in the program.
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Dismayed Veteran
Posted on February 27, 2012 at 5:06pmI guess my Uncle Jack was a mass murderer when he carpet bombed Germany in WWII.
Am I sorry that innocents are killed? Yes.
Do innocents get hurt and killed in war? Yes
Do I think US military members do the killing? Yes
Does the military kill innocents on purpose? For the most part, No. There are exceptions such as the Mai Lai massacre from my war.
Do I think they like it? No.
War is an ugly business. All the technology that we saw the from the First Gulf War made war appear remote and game-like. It is not.
Report Post »Fanglemeister
Posted on February 27, 2012 at 12:18pmHere’s an interesting twist: Imagine the first and last sentence in this story had the participants reversed.
“Taliban drone strikes inside the United States are killing far fewer civilians than many in the country are led to believe, according to a rare on-the-ground investigation by Al Jazeera of 10 of the deadliest attacks in the past 18 months.”
“A poll conducted in May 2011 by a Pakistan-based Research Center found that overwhelming majorities of U.S. citizens who were aware of drone strikes said they were a bad thing and killed too many innocents. U.S. officials regularly criticize the strikes as violations of the country’s sovereignty, but there has long been some level of American acquiescence or help in the program.”
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 9:25pmDrones could very well be the locusts that the Apostle John saw is his divine visions in the Book of Revelation. Especially the smaller ones, the micros.
Report Post »Copo
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 6:17pmIt’s bad if one is killed. If we NEED to kill somebody and the only way to do so without our civilians dying is to use a drone strike which may kill civilians than we have a duty to do so to protect out people. If there was some other way than these people died for no reason. If a civilians okay to kill then I guess it was okay to kill Bin Laden with a drone in 97 even though a UAE prince was with him, but we didn’t, and it could have saved (we knew he was going to attack and how, just not the when where) tons of our civilian lives.
Report Post »jb.kibs
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 4:31pm“AP Investigation: Drones Kill Far Fewer Civilians Than Many Pakistanis Are Led to Believe”
you just keep telling people that, because if you repeat something enough it just becomes true, right? right.
Report Post »SgtB
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 5:16pmWhy does it matter is drones kill less than they believe? If we kill a single innocent person they should be outraged. How would the US react is a foreign nation had drones flying over our land and shooting missiles into homes of alleged terrorists?
They used to teach this thing in school called the golden rule. You know “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” It seems to me that extremist terrorism is an evil as old as humanity itself that we will never get rid of. In fact, in “our” efforts to curd terrorism, the threat to ourselves has only grown. Soon, homegrown white bread men and women will become so sick and tired of this overburdened dictatorship that we now live in and a revolt will happen. The only reason it hasn’t yet is because while America is the home of the brave and the land of the free, there is one more descriptor that fits the American personality, extremely tolerant. Once people no longer tolerate the gov’t selling their children into the slavery of national debt, things will turn quickly.
Report Post »CynicalLately
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 12:09pmPlease forgive me for posting this, but this is powerful, and THIS is the truth.
This is the MOST difficult thing I have ever watched. THIS is immoral……………
“Warning Graphic Footage! This is HOW USA is spreading our wonderful peace and democracy…
Makes me sick.. Imagine how you would feel having jets bomb you like this!
These people are human too! They live, die, love, work, take care of their children… TOO!!! And these poor little babies & children. This has to stop!!
The War Mongers have taken over our GOV!!!” Afterall, war is very profitable for some.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO SEE THIS : OBAMA’S DRONES WAR ON WOMEN AND CHILDREN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlxJXfdemW8&feature=player_embedded
Report Post »NoNannyState4me
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 12:35pmJust one civilian killed by our drones is too many.
Evidently we liked being mired in a no win situation that bankrupts our country and our Christian morals. VietNam wasn’t enough for our government. What the government found out in Viet Nam is that they can force control on Americans by instituting fear and anguish on us.
I am NO fan of Islamoshitbags at all. At All. But, we are witnessing the suicide of America let by the Bush Family, the Clintons and Barak Obama. There is no 2 party system here, we have the War Party supported by a plethora of war loving killers that thing America shows it’s greatness by unsuccessfully trying to police the world with murder and force.
Report Post »SandTrout
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 6:18am10-30% collateral damage collateral damage is far better than WW2, where civilians made up about 60% of all casualties, and terrorist acts against Israel and the west in general, where civilians make up nearly 100% of all casualties. Add to this that it looks like a lot of the ‘collateral damage’ is the families of the target, which means that they are directly aiding the fighters against the US and it’s allies, which makes them a legitimate target on their own.
People who decry the US for commiting ‘war crimes’ are ignorant of the definition, the numbers, and the historical perspective. The facts of the matter show the US as the most merciful force in the world, so excuse me if I’m short on sympathy for people who expressly target our civilians when theirs are inadvertently killed.
Report Post »CynicalLately
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 12:10pmThat percentage makes it okay?
Please forgive me for posting this, but this is powerful, and THIS is the truth.
This is the MOST difficult thing I have ever watched. THIS is immoral……………
“Warning Graphic Footage! This is HOW USA is spreading our wonderful peace and democracy…
Makes me sick.. Imagine how you would feel having jets bomb you like this!
THEY ARE NOT A THREAT TO US!!! These people are human too! They live, die, love, work, take care of their children… TOO!!! And these poor little babies & children. This has to stop!!
The War Mongers have taken over our GOV!!!”
EVERYONE NEEDS TO SEE THIS : OBAMA’S DRONES WAR ON WOMEN AND CHILDREN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlxJXfdemW8&feature=player_embedded
Report Post »NoNannyState4me
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 12:37pm.1% is TOO MANY
This crap is coming to America, in the lifetimes of those under 60 for sure, so remember what % you think is okay then.
Report Post »Miyegombo Bayartsogt
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 5:07amReading any AP story nowadays is the same as reading a White House press release. No doubt, if George Bush was still president, AP would be screaming headlines here about unacceptable civilian collateral damage and death by drone. Only here, bad B.O. gets a complete pass for using his nearly unlimited powers of liberal Death From Above. This type of reporting demonstrates that like the splattered and burned Islamists after a Hellfire missile strike, journalism is mostly dead now. This is painfully apparent among the hacks at AP and the others in the misty-eyed messiah media. The free press is supposed to speak truth to power but under Obama the press crouches and licks the hand of their master. These faithless hucksters don’t even try to hide their Obama love anymore as they openly worship the regime they gleefully lied into power.
Report Post »FreedomPurveyor
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 10:26pmThey have no sympathy for the souls lost on 9/11, and I have no sympathy for them.
Report Post »Winedude
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 9:17pmNobody here is supposed to believe this “lamestream” media story. What a collection of mindless rectal pores…
Report Post »GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 9:15pmDrones kill alot more than the west is lead to believe. It’s called state propaganda and much more prevalent in the US than anywhere else in the world, due to the 24/7 coverage we are bombarded w/ so constantly.
Report Post »Link8on
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 1:14pmThe Taliban militants kill to gain and stay in power, nobody reporting on that tidbit over there.
The Taliban victom counts could all be blamed on the foreign drones, and then claim that the Taliban is there to defend the helpless villagers.
Report Post »TRILO
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 6:52pmSo they kill fewer than some say. I guess that makes them ok? Frankly, I want to know why we are in the soveriegn country of Pakistan shooting at anyone? This is what makes peope across the world hostile towards America.
I wonder what people would say if the situation were reversed. Just wondering if the Mexican military gets drones and goes after a group of MS13 gang members (war on drugs) or Al Qaeda terrorists (war on terror) and some people in Texas were unfortunate to be in the wrong place and a very bad time does that justify the use of drones by the Mexican govt in US territory? I think NOT. The same should hold true for the United States.
Can’t wait for the drones to start flying over our country especially now that the shores of America are now considered a war zone thanks to the NDAA. It should be real interesting when they arm them. It will bring a whole new meaning to a SWAT raid gone bad.
Welcome to the United Police States of America.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 6:27pmCertified Robotic Killers… just what the World needs!
Report Post »ccrabill
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 6:04pmWait until 30,000 are deployed over America to keep us all in line. Will the death of ONE innocent American by a drone be OK with us? Why should one innocent Pakistani, Afgani, etc, be OK either?
Report Post »brntout
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 8:47pmClick…..Boom!…. 1 down 29,999 to go.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:41pmNow that doesn’t surprise me.
Report Post »justangry
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:31pmThey’re just people. Who cares, right?
Report Post »Crazy Times
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:40pmit’s called propaganda. in other words a public relations. in other words lies. In other words the exact same thing you are doing on this website with your post.
Report Post »AnAmerican111
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:27pmBummer! The more the better!
Report Post »Pigpen
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 4:53pmHa Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !!!
PUH-LEASE !!!
The hypocrisy is MIND BOGGLING! Show of hands, how many of you Blazers believe that the AP would EVER run a headline like this if the President of the United States was a Republican? But hey, we have to at least TRY to justify passing up the Dalai Llama (who used to be so in vogue with these lefties) and giving it to the US President Hussein who, when he accepted the highest award for Peace, expounded upon the concept of a Just War and that sometimes the ONLY way to PEACE is through WAR!
HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!
Report Post »How do these people live with themselves? How is it that ANYONE still gives credence to ANYTHING they print?
Crazy Times
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:41pmagain, it’s all just propaganda.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:45pmI’m sure the collateral damage for the most part has been uniform throughout both Administrations, but now they are fearing how a backlash may affect the Arab Spring creation.
Report Post »Crazy Times
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 6:19pmyes, the whole drone issue is very strange…
It is like the Gov puts out news thru the bias MSM to have us look one way while they are building the cage of 30,000 drones to inprision us with our backs turned.
… God save us.
Report Post »TheObamanation
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 4:48pmAbsolutely love the drone program …
Report Post »Miyegombo Bayartsogt
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 5:10amEvery drone story with a happy ending for the terrorist via Hellfire missile makes me moist.
Report Post »Ferrarello
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 4:44pmSo that makes it ok huh ? They only kill 20 innocent children insted of 100…..well then…I guess its worth it. WTF ???
Report Post »Weiners Wiener
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:04pmYes. It makes it plenty fair. 9/11 makes it fair.
Report Post »Crazy Times
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:44pmGo back to listening to your liberal teacher ferrarello.
“Nazis, I hate these guys” – Indiana Jones
Report Post »SgtB
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 5:22pmWeiner & Crazy,
I am a US Marine and Libertarian. I am not a big gov’t liberal or a neocon. I am a registered Republican and always have been.
First off, there is an old saying that two wrongs don’t make a right. Furthermore, it is not right or conscionable to murder those who are innocent in order to bring justice upon the guilty. Your assertion that 9/11 makes it okay for the US to conduct missile strikes into the homes of people in a foreign nation is at best invalid and moronic. Your opinions are like those of a child and quite frankly, it is people like you that make this republic so hard to keep.
I sincerely hope that the both of you either come to your senses. If that never happens, then I wish sterility upon you both so that your thoughts and opinions may die with you.
Report Post »TrueLibertarian
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 9:42pm@Weiners Wiener
“Yes. It makes it plenty fair. 9/11 makes it fair.”
Using the same argument Al Qaeda makes. You Sir are the king of morons.
So 9/11 excuses the deaths of people who had nothing to do with 9/11. Just like Al Queda excuses its actions because of US interference in their countries. By your shared retarded logic everyone can kill everyone because someone in their nation transgressed against them. Is that how it goes you moron.
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