Are College Degrees Hindering Innovation? This Author Thinks So
- Posted on October 29, 2011 at 6:41am by
Liz Klimas
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“Mom, Dad, I’m dropping out of college.” These words are probably a parental nightmare. But for Michael Ellsberg the nightmare would sound like this: “Mom, Dad, I’m going to graduate school.”
You see, Ellsberg, author of the recently published “The Education of Millionaires: It’s Not What You Think and It’s Not Too Late,” believes that today’s college graduates, current undergrads and high school students don’t realize the potential they have to find or create a job for themselves — sans degree. Ellsberg says the “system” has taught young people to think a college degree leads to success and more wealth.
But in today’s economy, the opposite can be true. According the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, unemployment for college graduates between age 20 and 24 was at 12 percent in June. And according to Mark Kantrowitz (via the Wall Street Journal), publisher of student-aid websites Fastweb.com and FinAid.org, the average debt for an new B.A. or B.S. graduate this year is $22,900. USA Today also reported earlier this month that student debt will eclipse $1 trillion by the end of this year, exceeding the nation’s credit card debt.
Ellsberg says that college graduates are now getting angry when they leave school with thousands of dollars in debt and the job they get is pouring coffee. Some in the Occupy Wall Street movement, even if you disagree with it, exhibit this rage. Take a look at some of their demographics: 64 percent are under the age of 34, 92 percent have some sort of college education and about 50 percent are employed full-time, according to a survey of 1,619 people who visited the Occupy Wall Street website.
“If you have invested 16 years in your life and you find that the only thing you can do with your human capitol is work at Starbucks then you think ‘maybe I was fed a lie.’”
As for the Occupiers, to whom Ellsberg plans to donate a few copies of his book, “there is a huge mishmash of ideas being circulated down there, many of which I don’t agree with,” Ellsberg said. “But the underlying thing that’s going on is a sense of rage around the system. It’s not working for young people.”
Michael Ellsberg, 34. (Photo: Michael Ellsberg)
ABC News recorded these comments from recent college graduates last year:
“I just graduated from the University of Texas at Austin with a degree in corporate communications and concentrations in business and Chinese,” wrote one. “I thought I would be set once I graduated. Of course, I was wrong. In order to pay the bills, am doing random odd jobs, such as cleaning and helping people pack.”
Another told us: “I’m 22 years old with a degree in management from Hofstra University. I’ve been job hunting since May 2009. I’ve been making some money babysitting, but I don’t want to make a career out of babysitting for the rest of my life.”
Or this: “I graduated from Northern Michigan University in August ‘08 with a BS in mathematics. I have applied for nearly 300 jobs and only heard back from a small handful. Got a personal trainer’s certificate…”
The vast majority of students in college today, according to Ellsberg, are being trained for middle management jobs that just don’t exist anymore.
“In the 1950s, when the current educational system came into its current form, there was a shortage of middle managers,” Ellsberg said. “At that time, we needed ranks and ranks of organization men and this is what parents wanted their kids to become.
“That was great in the 1950s , but everything is turned on its head now. Corporations are downsizing, replacing middle managers with software or an organizational man in India. No longer is being a middle manager a route to job security.”
In his New York Times op-ed over the weekend, Ellsberg, wrote that the current educational system doesn’t teach students about creating jobs or starting businesses, and we therefore have a shortage in our country:
If start-up activity is the true engine of job creation in America, one thing is clear: our current educational system is acting as the brakes. Simply put, from kindergarten through undergraduate and grad school, you learn very few skills or attitudes that would ever help you start a business. Skills like sales, networking, creativity and comfort with failure.
No business in America — and therefore no job creation — happens without someone buying something. But most students learn nothing about sales in college; they are more likely to take a course on why sales (and capitalism) are evil.
Moreover, very few start-ups get off the ground without a wide, vibrant network of advisers and mentors, potential customers and clients, quality vendors and valuable talent to employ. You don’t learn how to network crouched over a desk studying for multiple-choice exams. You learn it outside the classroom, talking to fellow human beings face-to-face.
Ellsberg noted in his interview with The Blaze that his wife, who is a college dropout that started her own company, employs four people. Although this may not seem like a lot of employees, consider how many people the average college graduate employs themselves. Few probably truly employ anyone unless they are a business owner.
Ellsberg’s perspective is not without opposition. Vartan Gregorian, president of the Carnegie Corporation, wrote in Time that it’s undeniable people with a college degrees are more likely to have a job and earn more than those without. The Huffington Post confirmed this in June with the Bureau of Labor Statistics as finding college graduates were still more employed than those without a degree.
Gregorian also writes that there is a purpose to education beyond financial gain:
[...] the purpose of education, whatever its cost or its source, is not simply to enable one to earn a living but to prepare one for living over the course of an entire lifetime with all the ups and downs that come our way. This is particularly true of the liberal arts which, I believe, are the key to endowing students with the perspective for reflection upon the nature and texture of their own lives.
While Ellsberg notes that he doesn’t believe every college dropout will become an entrepreneurial millionaire or that people striving to become doctors and lawyers should drop out of college — obviously they shouldn’t — at least in himself, he found that he learned many things on his own.
“I couldn’t make the transition. What I valued in college, I couldn’t find jobs in.”
So, does Ellsberg use his degree in international relations? He says the fact that his wife is Australian is about as close as it gets.
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Comments (116)
Charles
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:24amPerhaps in the distant past a college degree was a true intellectual and creative asset. Today it is an indoctrination. The “you need a degree before we’ll accept your application to work here” is a racket. Physicians need to actually work in their field (residency) before they are actually licensed to practice.
Report Post »proudinfidel54
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 3:30pmWhat’s wrong? No one has an opening for any brain-washed, indoctrinated, anarchists, Hmm I heard move on and George Sorroes was hiring. Perhaps if the students would stand up to these “commie proffesors” and demand that they start teaching skills benificial in the work force, then the USA could get back to being a Driving force in the world economy instead of an international joke. I do believe in Protesting but one should know who to protest, perhaps the picket line should start at the College classrooms and end at the administration office or the Dean’s house…“WAKE UP KIDS”
Report Post »mtcountrygrl
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:34pmI dropped out of college in my 2nd year when I saw the debt mounting and the knowledge lacking. I started my own business and delivered pizzas at night while I got it off the ground. I then supported my husband while he started his own business (he interned under a tradesman and skipped college). Now he supports me while I work part time from home and raise and homeschool our kids. We are now launching business number 3. We employee 4 people and whenever we are hiring we skip the college grads. Like my husband says “all a college degree tells me is you have NO work experience and will probably want to be paid more than you are worth because you are deeply in debt”. Well said my dear.
Report Post »robert
Posted on October 30, 2011 at 10:52amCharles
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:24am
“Perhaps in the distant past a college degree was a true intellectual and creative asset. Today it is an indoctrination. ”
You’ve hit the nail right on the head perfectly, guy.
Socially engineering has replaced learning in almost every so-called institute of higher learning in the country, so completely has the insidious poison of political correctness swept across this nation and Europe.
Check out below what this university editorial board thinks about diversity. It’s as if there is nothing more important. PC has reached a cult status with too many of these programmed lemmings, and no other point of view will be considered. And, just like cult members who believe far-fetched kookie nonsense and who have to be kidnapped from their cult community and forced into rehabilitation, these university students need the same thing just in order to view all matters in an objective manner.
http://home.uvawise.edu/highlandcavalier/?p=4700
Affirmative action degrees are worthless because corporate America is aware the recipient doesn’t know what he/she should know in his/her chosen subject, and are VERY reluctant to hire them.
Those students who are not a part of AA and who so doggedly pursue PC over acquiring important, necessary knowledge, are affected negatively as well, because AA dumbs down all course material, resulting in lemmings educated only in social engineering.
Report Post »Augydoggy
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:19amFirst off. I am not well educated. Perhaps, if I had finished CC I would have done a bit better. I do not know. I know I have worked with PHD types all my life and often wondered what they recived for their money or did they just get short changed? I have a feeling that the intent of the whole student aid program was to keep you enslaved to the goverment for the 15-20 years it takes to pay back big degree’s so that professors can get high dollars to produce people who can not make change or count it back to you . I have carried this around for years. “ Do highly educated people make smarter mistake”… Make ya ponder huh?
Report Post »coindexter
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:49amthe university system is designed to encourage students to spend money within that system…period. the university system cares only about it’s own sustainability. for all the “worthless” degrees churned out by the universities there are few that are worthy of the commitment and expense. where is the accountability of the “career counselors”? when a potential $tudent i$ willing to $pend 80,000 on a musicology degree…does anyone tell them it’s a bad choice or does the university collect the paycheck?…paycheck. and how much are taxpayers on the hook for the student loan program? now or in the future.
Report Post »LukeAppling
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:18amCollege has deteriorated into a propaganda machine for marxism, socialism and all the loves of the radical 60′s professors who have driven the costs of college through the roof with tenure and exorbitant wages for everyone being paid as a college employee. It is ludicrous that colleges should charge many, many thousands of dollars per semester for this tripe and the foolish students, and their equally foolish parents, do nothing but pay and complain privately. The costs of college is a crime perpetrated by the professors now cheering on the OWS protesters who they believe are carrying on their 60′s protests which did nothing but give them free sex and abortion as birth control in the name of freedom.
Report Post »RossPoldark
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:32amBravo! Well said!
Report Post »Hickory
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 2:17pmRight on target LUKE.
Report Post »standuppeople
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 10:54amFirst, a study purporting that a belief in God decreases motivation–now, an article proposing that a degree hinders innovation? Hmmm–a godless, undereducated populace… ?
Report Post »RossPoldark
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:33amWell said!
Report Post »aquablue
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 10:54amI do not believe that 92% of the occupiers have some sort of college education. I see quotes from New York Times and Huffington post here – red flags! NY Times supports occupiers.
Report Post »pwatkins
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 10:50amMore occupy complaints……
Report Post »http://www2.nbc17.com/news/2011/oct/28/raleighs-mayor-questions-way-occupy-raleigh-protes-ar-1551341/
quiltgal
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 10:24amA friend of mine who is a college professor recently told me students these days appear to be either incapable of or resistant to doing critical or creative thinking. They are stumped by assignments that ask for original ideas. Additionally, many feel that if they put anything at all on paper they have fulfilled the assignment and deserve an A, regardless of the merits of what they have produced. This is sad but not surprising. These kids have been brought up in a system that teaches self-esteem divorced from real accomplishment. It must be doubly depressing to graduate and find that in the job market, no one is going to hire you for just being alive!
Report Post »MidWestMom
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:10amI personally know a plumber, a HVAC repairman and an electrician who have more business than they can handle. All have hired new workers in the last 6 mos. And all make a heck of a lot more money than pouring coffee. Too many people have the attitude that “learning a trade” is somehow beneath them. I guess they don’t understand that there will always be pipes that break, furnaces & ac that need fixed and electrical problems.
Report Post »RossPoldark
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:38amAnd yet, college instructors dole out As to many of these type of kids. Many of them have a 4.0 grade point average, or what is it now, 4.5?
Report Post »RossPoldark
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:40amMidwestmom, they interview an OWS welder who said he could not find a job, hand he would not work for anything less than 60.00 and hour. He said he could not possibly take a 15.00 an hour job.
Report Post »MinorityRightsAdvocate
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 1:54pmRossPoldark
Report Post »I saw that interview, that rate of pay is WAY too high for an entry level welder. I know Nuclear welders that don’t get that kind of pay!
That guy was a fool, as are most of OWS. He does not have a job by choice, and Herman Cain correctly observed. There are jobs out there for welders that pay over 15/hr, but he is just not willing to go to where they are and take up the work, instead he was hoping to be picked up by the union? Why did that not get a follow up? The fact is the unions are exclusive, and they pool and control available jobs which might pay well when you get a job, but are in short supply and infrequent. I know of some union electricians that go for long periods between jobs and have to carefully plan their spending, and ironically collect your tax dollars in unemployment between jobs, then when they get a job, it is way over paid, and short term.
MidWestMom
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 4:18pm@RossPoldark
Then he is a fool – especially in this economy. The folks I mentioned are paying new hires $22/hr on the average plus some benefits. 90% of the new employees are in their 20′s.
Report Post »Taquoshi
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 5:30pmOur son just got his Associates Degree from the local Community College after being homeschooled. He was absolutely floored when he watched other students in his classes prove they hadn’t a CLUE as to what they were doing or even supposed to do.
As for finding a job, sadly the work ethic just isn’t there. The summer intern program at my job was a catastrophe. We had one really good intern and another that was a real problem. My spouse’s business has had a number of young employees who think nothing of ripping off the company or goofing off.
Report Post »tobywil2
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 10:18amCapitalism has been replaced by Cronyism: what is Cronyism? See cartoon: http://commonsense21c.com/images/cronyism-2.jpg What do you expect when deployment of capital is determined by political expediency instead of the potential to create wealth and profit. http://commonsense21c.com/
Report Post »hi
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 10:06amMy kids are going to go to college and grad school. They just need to choose the right majors and stay away from courses such as Porn 101 a Yale. (yes Yale does have that!) They can innovate while going or when they graduate.
Report Post »The disgruntled Starbucks employee should start his own business or have a great attitude so he can work his way up in the company, not complain at how horrible his degree is. He needs an attitude adjustment, not pity.
carbonyes
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 10:36amThey also need to choose the “right” school, not many of them around, mostly “left” schools, who will do there damnedest to turn your kid into a commie or a socialist, or at the very least a sympathizer and a supporter of big government, government handouts with the welfare mentality and we know best fro you. Until we have a wholesale dismantling of the higher education system with the progressive, elitist academia sent packing and replaced by real thinkers with character, integrity, a fundamental family value system and a further belief in property rights and the free enterprise, in many cases we be sending our children into a college and university environment to become sacrificial lambs.
Report Post »Sicialian Eyeball
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:48amIn The Wizard Of Oz, the scarecrow wanted a brain,so the wizard gave him a fancy diploma from a learned institution. He was still the same idiot as he was before the diploma. Sound familiar? Crap in. Crap out. It’s like the American car industry building too many cars.Too many idiots thinking they have a brain. Education doesnt create real intelligence. Only some students that test well.
Report Post »carbonyes
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 10:51amNever a truer statement made! If we started boycotting many of these institutions of lower learning, and saved the money spent, we could find better means of educating our students, or temporarily convince them that to acquire a trade would bring them a better opportunity for a job now with money in their pockets, and consider pursuing an academic degree later, if they should so choose, with a bit more maturity, and more time to select an academic degree and less susceptible to becoming indoctrinated with progressive liberalism.
Report Post »In addition, the academic frauds might have to take a significant pay cut, as their steady stream of high school graduates will have been going on to bigger and better things without being funneled through the liberal academia pipeline. Academia’s chant will be, “How could they live without us?”
The response would be, “Just fine, thank you.”
FNTM
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:09amWell said. We are being brainwashed by educators. They are at best self serving. In the late 80′s I was in low-middle mangement with BellSouth. I just attained my MBA-wow. Still, most of my peers, some much better and some not so good, for the most part had NO degrees. It was not the degree that got us our positions. Today, of course, no one would have the opportunity to get that level without at least a 4 year degree. Why has this happened? The need for the degree has not made management one bit better. Only more in debt.
Report Post »mtcountrygrl
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:52pmWell said. Our public school system is a joke in this country (I homeschool because I don’t want stupid / immoral kids). I have a great solution to fix them and bail out our underwater state budgets. SELL THE SCHOOLS! That’s right sell the schools to private investors. Take the money and bail out the pension plans and budget shortfalls. Then take the money per kid (about $10K in most states) and send it to the parents. Let the parents spend the $10K per year on educating their children however they choose. I spend about $1200 per year on homeschool supplies and extra lessons (music instruments, sports, etc). The remaining money would compensate me for staying home and not working. Think about how many more families could homeschool! And good teachers (the ones who should be running schools) could start small home based schools and become small business owners. As for the big “public” schools, private investors could run them however they saw fit. And parents could vote with their pocketbooks. No more sending moms to jail for false addresses, just trying to get their kids a good education. And best of all no more teacher’s union!!!
Report Post »tobywil2
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:36amn 1957 a graduated from the Georgia Institute of Technology with a degree in engineering. My tuition was paid from my earnings as an inspector and an aluminum anodizing plant. A quarter’s tuition consumed about 1 1/2 weeks take-home pay. Of course, you can do that today. The bureaucratic nonsense has sent most manufacturing jobs to China.
Report Post »http://commonsense21c.com/
tobywil2
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:25amIt is not College education that is limiting innovation it is the tyranny of the Bureaucracy: see cartoon:
Report Post »http://commonsense21c.com/images/STATUS_QUO.jpg
Hickory
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:15amI spent many years in business as an executive and a business owner. I found that many of the people I hired came in three groups. The first group was honest hard working people where some had degrees and some didn’t. But the common trait of this group was they had earned everything they had achieved. The second group was the pampered kids who either went to school on their parents’ payout or….. they were welfare soaks who went to school on the dole. The third were the PhDs. Only about 20 to 25% of them were worth a damn. I saw a lot of inflated resumes from this crowd.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:33amHow about all the one‘s who have had trig and yet they can’t even do simple math?
Report Post »Well guess what? Young adults today have problems doing basic math in their heads, and when the computers go down at the stores they work at they find it difficult making change. The culprit? Calculators, and the education system building children to be controllable rather than intelligent. And schools should be teaching students how to do short-cuts. Young adults today rarely have spherical and spacial thinking. Ask them to do simple math and they have to write it down usually because they can not picture it in their head, and haven’t learned their own mental short-cuts. Ask them oh like maybe what’s 163-85, and someone might take 150-80 add 8? They will write it down rather than do it in their head.
Eliasim
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:36amThey are literally building children into being dumber than apes.
Report Post »Cat
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:34amHickory
That situation is within all business and in all education.
My father’s advice …
Your life depends on you.
Your education depends on you.
Your success depends on you.
Your government thinks otherwise.
If you have God given talent, you’re considered gifted, but not indoctrinated.
Report Post »You will be penalized for refusing indoctrination, and penalized for working hard and doing well.
Have been living that scenario over 44 years.
YepImaConservative
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:04amMany college students are waiting for some big pay off upon graduation, which typically doesn’t exist and most college grads unfortunately have no concept of the stage of the job market that is designated as “entry level”, which no matter what their collegiate experience, they need to complete before leading to their “successful working ventures”. Plus some of the most important education we receive is right after college by figuring out apartment rent, bills, working more than one job, and setting career goals. You can’t get that by going straight from college to a high-paying power job… they may be impatient to be successful, but I think it’s so important for them to remember that success is not measured by dollar signs but by experience.
Report Post »HKS
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:11amI think the technical content of college education is probably good however its the attitude that they teach that’s killing us. It’s for the most part a “you owe me, socialist attitude” It takes away the personal drive it takes to innovate. Relentless drive is not a product of a college education, it’s more of a detriment to it. There is only a small percentage that reject this brainwashing.
Report Post »Randy
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:39amOne of the big issues that I have noticed over the past twenty years is a movement towards over emphasis of education over experience. We have LPN‘s training RN’s how to do their job, we have case workers training social workers how to do their jobs, yet the LPN and the Case Worker can not upgrade through a test with their experience, they must take more college courses on stuff they already know, before taking an exam they could already pass. The same has applied to many management positions. I saw one Security Manager position come up for hire 5 times in two years, so I applied and interviewed and it was arrogantly pointed out to me that a 4 year degree was preferred, he then stated as a person with a four year degree he looks for others like him. I calmly told the H.R. Manager that I see why the job keeps coming up and that it was because he was emphasizing on the wrong area and therefore hiring the wrong people. I then told him I have friend who spent 6 years full time in a University to get a 4 year degree, before I excused myself and wished him good luck. The job came up two more times that year and after the HR Manager “no longer worked for the company”, I only saw it posted one more time, that was over three years ago.
Report Post »YepImaConservative
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:41amGood point. That’s the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation and drive…. one being internal and the other being external.
Report Post »YepImaConservative
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 10:09am>HKS. My above comment was in relation to your statement.
>RANDY. Agreed. College can be very overrated in many instances and the best person for the job is not necessarily the one with the degree. I was a Medical Services Recruiter for the U.S. Army in the ‘80’s. Believe it or not I mostly recruited R.N.’s for the Army as my primary recruiting function. I am not an R.N. and never have been… I held the “MOS” Army Job skill of “Combat Engineer” at the time, Lol.
In the beginning I didn’t know my arse from a hole in the ground in dealing with this profession, but over time was putting Nurses (Nursing BSN Seniors and experienced “working” R.N.’S) in boots in droves and sending them down range (Officer Basic Course) because of the Nursing Recruitment mentoring system which taught me the Human Resources, product knowledge and sales skills to be a successful MS Recruiter.
When I retired from the Army I went out and searched for Recruiting positions at Hospitals. I was rejected for these positions because I was NOT an R.N., but had years of experience in this field and was even told by Nursing Educators and Professionals that they always thought I was in the Medical Field… until told otherwise, lol. Of course I could not perform the Clinical side of Nursing, I could however recruit the he77 outa‘ the profession and put ’em in Clinical settings.
Report Post »ares338
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 8:51amYou dumbass…..a degree doesn’t hinder anything! Everyone is different and yes college isn’t for everyone but most would probably benefit from a college education. Seeing as how this person sympathizes with the protestors I can see why he thinks like this.
Report Post »Hickory
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:21amMost owners of small businesses are wise now to the shortcomings of our upper tier university system. When I owned my own business, I would not interview an Ivy leaguer. They were not worth the powder required to blow their nose. On the other hand, I really liked those thirty something guys who were going to night school. They gave me eight hours work for eight hours pay every day. And, they seemed to be smarter than the ivy snots.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 8:41amdecendentof56 said
Garym…….
I want to respectfully disagree with you on the correlation you make between college and being a leader.
That wasn‘t the point that I intended to make but rather if a person who went to college without a scholarship to get out of work and be in a do nothing supervisory capacity they probably didn’t have any leadership skills. There are probably more people with leadership skills without college than with college, I agree with you decendentof56!
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 8:56amI think students using calculators from grade-school through college dampens their ability to have multi-dimensional thinking.
Report Post »Robert Hawk
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:01amSupervisors are not “do nothing” and a college degree does not give one the ability to supervise. This is a misconception within some business avenues. Others, don’t adhere to this false claim.
The need for a college education is based on the competency requirements of the job or need of the business. All college educated do not wind up in management, most wind up performing a specific and very focused task (Accounting, Physician, Various forms of Engineering, Research, Specific Education), beyond that, there is simply not much need for a college degree. Interestingly enough when I was younger, an industrial Engineering degree was simply a two year degree as were many Engineering degrees, now they have all grown into four year degrees with a vast array of useless electives thrown in which add no value to the technical knowledge required of an Industrial Engineering position. They were placed there by the colleges to provide them with increased revenue and an opportunity to subvert the student into Stoic-Sophist doctrine.
I have dismissed many a college student in engineering, who simply could not apply what they had learned in a manufacturing environment. You see it goes beyond a simple college degree. One must posses mechanical aptitude first, then learn and apply engineering techniques in addition to that aptitude, in order to be effective in manufacturing. The same holds true for any other field. There are a plethora of the former and very few of the latt
Report Post »The_Almighty_Creestof
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 8:29amThey should have a poll where students honestly answer if they are going on to college because:
Report Post »a) A college degree is needed to get a better/higher paying job.
b) I really want the additional knowledge/instruction in order to fullfill my lifes dream.
c) I really just want to stay in school and not face reality for another few years.
loriann12
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 8:57amMy mother-in-law adopted 2 girls a generation younger than my husband (after being foster parents for quite some time). The older one wanted to go to college, but my MIL knew her well enough to know that she only wanted it because she was good at school, and didn’t want to take a chance in the real world. She told her to apply for scholarships because she wasn’t going to pay for it. At first I thought that was cruel, but I look at her now, and it was the best thing for her.
Report Post »Concerned Green Beret
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 8:05amToday’s American Colleges not only hinder the creative spirit, they destroy the American Spirit, the Human Spirit, and for the most part are just evil places.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 10:19amSo true. There is no creativity and ingenuity allowed in schools anymore. It used to be that you went to school to learn a trade or profession, not to learn about it. Most college students expect a job to be handed out to them once they graduate. They don’t think they actually have to work to get the job first.
Report Post »decendentof56
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 7:45amTo determine at 18 y/o what career will leave you both fulfilled and hungry to achieve at 50 y/o is very difficult.
Report Post »As long as I can remember, young men and women have been told to “get a college degree.” That is fine as long as you know exactly what you want AND there will be a need for that profession.
To spend 40k-50k+ for that degree, you had better have done your research!
Both of my daughters are good examples:
my oldest was a designer and made good money. She got tired of it and now works part-time in a gift shop at a national park.
my youngest quit college after two years, worked for the phone co. and made good money, but was not fulfilled being a service rep. She went back to school while rasing 3 kids and is now a teacher.
loriann12
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 9:00amI went to college with a major in Art, emphasis in commercial art, and a minor in journalism. After a year and a semester, I quit and joined the navy. I wish I had learned more about journalism, but not from college.
Report Post »Cat
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 11:58amLoriann12
Report Post »Just do it …
A design professor in my freshman year of architectural school asked me this question.
“What are you doing here?”
He was right.
I quit and became a real estate developer, AND, designed award winning high-end, single-family dwellings for the wealthy.
marybethelizabeth
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 7:30amWithout an education people like Mr. Beck can lie to you without you knowing it, like he did on his show Friday to that fireman caller, misstating the facts regarding FDR and social security.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 7:50amI’m surprised you saw Beck Friday, much have been too cold for you down on Wall Street! I noticed you made accusations without stating what Beck’s point of view and what mistake you accused him of making, You had plenty of character left too. typical democrat!
Report Post »keithh1981
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 8:35amIt is funny how Glenn Beck has yet to be proven wrong anything in any of the facts he presented, you need to grow up child and study your history. If you get your history from the Democrats then I am sorry for you.
One of the main problems I see is that most of these kids get out of college and think they can get a top spot right away which is untrue. They still have to work at the bottom and work their way up the latter chain. Entitlement is their problem, and stupidity is their game.
I agree though, unless you are going for a skilled position like a doctor, lawyer etc., colleges are not good since I believe colleges help take creative thinking away from people. Colleges are supposed to show students how it is done but get the students to apply themselves to the problem, not have students be drones and just write down specific dates and effects.
Mary, maybe if you would not haven‘t went to college you wouldn’t have wasted your money being indoctrinated by the socialist teachers that now have you most likely jobless and worthless.
Report Post »Robert Hawk
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 8:47amMary Beth,
What you don’t understand is that college educations were very rare in the United State up until the late 1950 when they were used to escape the draft. The college educations mills started churning out vast numbers of college students who they discovered it was quite simple to subvert using Soviet tactics. Once the Vietnam war was over, the colleges had grown accustomed to their control over society and their vast numbers of students. They pushed the idea that those without a college degree was inept and incapable. I can personally attest to the fact that that, Mary is completely false.
If you think that college professors do not lie to you and do not subvert students into Stoic-Sophist doctrine then you are allowing yourself to be deceived. The college systems have been used since the early 1970s as the hot bed for churning out subverted believers in Stoic-Sophist doctrine. This is why they so completely embrace the various denominations of that doctrine such as socialism or communism or progressivism or objectivism or darwinism or the most vial and despicable of them all Liberation Theology. But don’t take my dumb uneducated word for it! Dig the truth out yourself. Go look it up! discover the based doctrine for Hegel, who educated the Young Hegelians such as Marx & Engels, Discover the based doctrine for Henri Saint Simon, and George B Shaw, and Lenin and Mau, and Castro and countless others. Its all the same its all based upon Stoic-Sophism.
Report Post »MrMagoo
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 7:28amSome of us don’t need a piece of paper that says B ************F.At any age!
TEA!
Report Post »dnewton
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 7:28amAnother factor not mentioned is that many people with degrees don’t work the field they trained for in college. Air Traffic Controllers have a high fraction of college degrees that don’t practice the skills on their diploma. Another category of mismatch is the person with a degree who is doing the jobs that do not requiring a college degree. There is an artificial education bubble out there that is constantly pumped up much like the housing bubble. Why do you have to have a masters degree to teach the third grade? It is easy to find non-management people with a college degree at a Wal-Mart. Pre-Kindergarden is just sophisticated, state-operated and expensive baby sitting. Even after getting the teaching job, additional courses and training are allegedly needed to keep up “proficiency.” Home schoolers get more output with less input consistently. Many scientist and engineers find that they can not work in a public school upon retirement without going back to school even though they have been training others and attending continuing education courses their whole life.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 7:16amLet’s face the facts, all people are not made for college and are not leaders. The reason most people go to college when they get out of high school is they are too lazy to do manual labor. They will even go into debt trying to prevent doing manual labor or worse yet, get their parents into deep debt and then drop out of college. With the ******* head professors we have now, they don’t learn anything but lies anyway. Somewhere back in the 60′s we wrote a new commandment it was every parents duty to pay for all their kids college and support them until they were 35 years old. If a high school graduate doesn’t have enough academic achievement to get a scholarship, chances are they aren’t going to achieve in the work force either, even with a college degree. Answer, if you don’t get a scholarship, go to work and quit whining!
Report Post »decendentof56
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 7:58amGarym…….
I want to respectfully disagree with you on the correlation you make between college and being a leader.
You can be a leader regardless of your level of education. I was leader of a group of techs. I had no degree, but was very experienced, organized, focused, and had a good work ethic. I always tried to put into perspective for the other techs why they were very fortunate to have a job with the freedom they had (co. truck; no reporting center; no boss to watch over them; etc), and that they had primary properties to maintain, and would be the face of the company at those sites. If they got done early with their work for that day, they went home, or maybe went shopping. No one cared.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 8:31amdecendentof56, you missed my point, I wasn’t saying that it requires college to be a leader, quiet the contrary! I was saying that if a person went to college to get out of work, they probably would not be a leader!
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 7:12amThere has always been a problem… in Licensing Professional Activity… where Testing and Judging knowledge and ability lead to Standards… and where Standards prohibit Inovation and Creativity. Centurys ago using Leeches to Bleed a person in order to balance the bodies systems were Standard, and people died from the Treatment because they had illnesses that increased. Every profession is subject to the same problem: Security in current Standards prevents Advancement!
Report Post »Abraham Young
Posted on October 29, 2011 at 7:11amPeter Schiff is right – government subsidies and loans are distorting the process of education and making it more expensive, and less economically pertinent. It matters whether you spend your own money or someone else’s. Tuition goes up because “everyone can afford it now” and the responsibility to make it count seems secondary.
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