Faith
Are We Religion Illiterate?
- Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:02am by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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If you’re an atheist or agnostic, you might know the most about religion in America. That’s just one of the surprising finds in a new study by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, as reported by CNN. The Pew gauged America’s religious knowledge by using a quiz.
Among the findings:
- Most Americans scored 50 percent or less on a quiz measuring knowledge of the Bible, world religions and what the Constitution says about religion in public life.
- Those who believe the Bible is the literal word of God did slightly worse than average, while those who say it is not the word of God scored slightly better.
- It’s not Bible-belt Southerners who scored highest – they came at the bottom.
- Barely half of all Catholics know that when they take communion, the bread and wine literally become the body and blood of Christ, according to Catholic doctrine.
- Only eight of the 3,412 survey respondents got all 32 questions right. Six got them all wrong.
- While people with a high level of religious commitment do better than average on the religion questions, people with low levels of religious commitment do better than average on the general knowledge questions (which were included for comparison purposes).
“When it comes to religion, there are a lot of things that Americans are unfamiliar with. That’s the main takeaway,” Greg Smith, a senior researcher at the think tank and one of the main authors of the survey, told CNN.
The 32-question quiz polled more than 3,400 Americans by telephone. Visit the CNN website to take a 10-question version of the quiz. You can view the study here.
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Comments (345)
Jamestown
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:04amEVER READ THE GOSPEL OF JOHN?…dig this christian..ch1 vs1….one verse…three complete true statements…grab your shovel and dig this…IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD/THE WORD WAS WITH GOD/THE WORDWAS GOD…JESUS IS THE WORD…JESUS IS GOD…allah is perversion ..Catholics, methodists, pentacostal…You are all deceived already
Report Post »mikemackin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:09amDear Jamestown,
What do you think….upon this rock I will build my church means? I’m seriously wondering?
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:29amThe rock mentioned is the ROCK OF REVELATION. Place this in the context of the whole message.
Report Post »The only sure, true knowledge comes through revelation given by the Holy Ghost. All else is secular knowledge.
Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:53amSure it wasn’t the “altar” found at Spring Hill?
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:05pmJoseph: I realize that you are a Deist from other discussions. That is fine with me. Each person was given by God the free aency to choose the3ir way of life but also to held accountable for the decisions made in that life.
FYI, the rock you mention at Spring Hill, MO is the remains we think of the rock used as an alter that Adam used at Adam Ondi Ahmna (known as Spring Hill). The rock mentioned in Matthews is that which is required to have the purity of Christ’s Gospel kept that way. The rock of Revelation.
Since you’re a Deist, you reject revelation of any kind. Why then should we discuss this further? Howver, IF you wish to have a respectful dialogue, feel free to contact me at captainmoroni2009@live.com
Report Post »mikemackin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:10pmContext is one thing but what about common sense? Here’s a “man” (God) who wants to give His message to all of mankind for all time. Do you think he may want to set up some kind of structure?
Not to mention. He said that to Peter. And wan’t Peter usally the first addresses, first to answer, ect….sort of the head of the apostles. So that fact combines with the “rock” comment makes me think it is a bit more literal.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:20pmBecause it’s amazing that a faith system that has no basis in reality is so deeply believed in.And by reality I mean scholarly,historical,archaeological,or scienitific and not theological.
Report Post »mikemackin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:34pmJoseph’s got ya there Contrarian.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:41pmThanks Mike,but I am not trying to get anyone.Just saying if you use science you can at least prove the basis of Judaism/Christianity.And if you want Islam too,because where Islam has been has been uh rather well documented
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:43pmMike; context is the key to understanding NOT worldly conjecture or theories.
Certainly God wanted a structure to bring His message to the world. Jesus set apart 12 Apostles. From there Paul and others set up futher structure. It wasn’t long however, before false doctrines entered the structure and doctrines. All the Apostes were murdered leaving the Church to the Apostolic Fathers. From there on, we see many teachings being changed until such time as Christ would never have recognized the Church structure and doctrines He established. Fighting and killings ensued. Even today there is much bitteness among Catholic, Protetsans and the hundred of Sects we see. This is all confusion. I don’t blame many to reject Christianity. God, however, is NOT the author of confusion and lie: Lucifer is.
Look at the verses in Matthews. Christ asked them who He was. Peter answered correctly becuase he had a sure witness through the Spirit of Revelation which cannot lie and will not change. No man even the great Peter can match the Holy Ghost and His revelations.
Please, Do NOT rely on the arm of flesh Rely on direct revaltion through the Holy Ghost. That is our safety in this confusing world..
Now I realize that both the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox Churches claim their Priesthood authority based on the interperetation that Peter is the rock mentioned by Christ. It is these Churches very foundations for existence. Take away the foundation of revelation through Apostles and the whole structure falls.
FWIW, The Mormons are the ONLY Church who even claims to have 12 Apostes and continuios revelation, (The stone) All others claim that revelation stopped with the Bible.
Could the whole story of Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church be one big lie? Certainly it COULD but if one relies on Revelation through the Holy Ghost who cannot lie, one can find out for oneself. Try it. you’ll like it. (grin)
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:51pmMike, I’m NOT into “gotcha moments.” The issues involved are much too important for this silliness.
FYI, there is a world reality and a spirtual reality. Therfe is matter qand antimatter. The spirtual cannot be physically seen but it exists and will be opened up to those who have a honest heart and an inquiring mind. Jesus made it quite clear that one must be spiritually in tone to understand the spiritual. There is a scientific method in the physical world to help lead us to truth. There is scientific process also that will lead us to spiritual truths.
BUT as time passes, more and worldly secular science is supporting the claims made in the Book of Mormon. That, however, is NOT the foundation that should be used to understand spiritual things. How often are the claims of science changed as we get further knowledge. As one example, how about medicine?
Only reliance on revelations from the Holy Ghost can lead you to truth both secular and spiritual.
Report Post »IMO any further discussion using gotchas is inapproriate. IF yoy do seek truth through the Spirit, contact me at captainmoroni2009@live.com
Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:06pmJoespeh, based on what scientific evidence and logic do you use to suppoert being a Deist? I realize you reject the notion that there is scientific process that MUST be used to understand spiritual matters. I think that is very unscientific and illogical.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:11pmFaith and clams Con.You still can not produce tangible physical proof of Smith’s claims.You can’t visit a Nephite/Lamanite/jewish american indian city,but Jews and Christians can go visit a good majority of the cities and lands mentioned in the bible.And they can see the coins,swords,vases,etc etc dug up proving historically anyways more then a few of the stories of the bible.You can see the Dead Sea Scrolls,but yet one can not see the golden plates.You can read ancient Hebrew but no one can read or find any Reformed Egyptian outside of what Smith claims.No one in North America can find a single chariot,piece of steel,sword, or scimitar from these people.And no cities.why are there no cities? Odd the bible cities are right there for all to see yet you can’t on a map locate a single one thats described in the bom.You can use science and DNA to prove the Lemba of Africa are descended from the Israelites but yet it proves American Indians are not at all relate to anicent Hebrews.But if your faith is what you believe go for it.It’s a bigger leap then most but thankfully we live in country ruled by law and not man so you have that choice.
“Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere’s past and the society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon.”The National Geographic Society.
Could you Con site a “secular” scienist that has had a peer reviewed paper or similar work that supports the bom? And no FARMS/BYU/etc etc do not count.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:20pmEasy.See the mountains? The ocean? The sky at night,millions and millions of stars? See the happiness on people? The universe,the vastness,the complexity of it all.It couldn’t have happened by mere chance.Something greater then all of us combined set this all in motion.Something to distant and dense for us to understand.But the Creator,the Great Intelliegence,the Big Electron,Joe Pesci,whatever it is called it’s there,still creating,still expanding.Science is the key and this is one place I think Steven Hawking is wrong,something got this ball rolling,but who? We may never know
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:21pmJoesph, yes many achollogical and earth science findings in MesoAmerica. I will gladly send you a book(s) about this. Just write me at captainmoroni2009@live.com
Now I ask for your complete honesty. Can I have it? As a profesweed scientists and logically honest person, you should be able to answer YES.
What if the physical evidence you demand was provided, would that convert you? Would you have the humilty it takes to turn your life over to Christ and try your best to live God’s will? Those are soul seraching questions, not something to give a glib answer to. It takes INTELLECTUAL INTEGRITY!!!! Do you have that?
Report Post »mikemackin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:33pmContrarian, you’ve got some holes. First, Jesus said he would send the hg to guide the church. Was he lying? Second, what confusion? The popes and bishops hav e only handed down waht they were given by Jesus. It is all those outside the Catholic church that have gotton confused. You should study the church fathers and early concil documents.Your intentions are too pure not to openly seek the truth.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:51pmMike, I respect your committemnt to the roman Catholic Church. When I was in the process of finding God’s Church, I got a copy of the Cathoilc “BibLe’ and looked at the Baltimore Catechism. I prayed about this and received a witness from the Holy Ghost that the catholic Church had greatly strayed from the teachings of Christ and His Apostles. You can say I‘m misled and that’s fine.
I would wager however that you haven’t spend the many hours and prayers I did about the Catholic Church about the Restored Gospel. IF you have through prayer and seeking the HG and found that the Restored Gospel is NOT God’s Church, then we’re in a real quandary. IF you haven’t spent that time, you really don’t know do you/
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:53pmGet the angel Moroni to show up at my house tonight,it’s pizza night here,with the golden plates,a map of all the jewish american indian cities,the ship’s magic compass,the sword of laban,Smith’s tophat and seer stone,a white horse,Smith’s masonic Jupiter talisman,and the exact location of Kolob and I’ll think about it.And how would a mere person in the mere corner of the universe presume to know what god’s will is? I can’t and never will,so I’ll just try to do my best in life and raise my daughter.And who knows,maybe one day a missionaire will actually have a D&C or a Pearl of Great Price to give me.I don’t understand why they pass View of the Hebrews..uh I mean the book of mormon off on me.
Thanks for the book offer,but I don’t spend time reading the hack writings of discredited pseudo-scienists.But if you want to read by Erich von Däniken’s latest go for it.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:54pmJOesph, Congratulations. Your finally shred with us your view of the great force. I’m glad you are vDeist that accepts that great organizating force. I say to you live a good life and be true to your beliefs. I’m saddended, however, that this great force in your eys can’t be talked to and become a friend and partner in gaining secular knowledge. It would feel very empty with that approach.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:08pmWe talk to god or whatever you will everyday.Everyday that I read of new scienfitic breakthrough in medicine or pyshics I know just for that mere moment we were just a step closer to seeing and understanding.I know everytime I read a new book or learn something new in class my eyes were opened just a bit more to god.I don’t need revelation,mystery,some ghosts appearing to me in the woods telling they are god.I don’t need to bow,humble or prostrate myself before another man to know or understand god.It‘s why I’m glad I live in a republic and he no desire to belong to any kingdom.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:13pmJoseph, I have treated your Deist beliefs with respect. Haven’t I? You have failed to do the same with mine. It‘s fine to have questions but to mock and ridicule isn’t part of Deistic teachings, is it?
You have admitted publicly that your mind is closed. scientific search for truth has ended ? That is NOT the way of a true scientist or seeker after truth no matter where it leads.
You say NO book or scientific knowledge will change your mind Is that evidence of the scientific method/
. I suggest you look deep inside yourself and see the hyprocisy there.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:28pmSo by bringing up things that are in your teachings,jews in precolumbian america,reformed egyptian,magic seer stones,I’m mocking it? Funny but Muslim play the same card when you quote from the koran or hadith.If what‘s in your teachings and the in the mouth of your prophets makes you embarrased then maybe I’m not the one in error.Remember your church was big on writing down evert little detail as it was being formed.And no,I said actual real science.Not the least silliness by FARMS or FAIR or the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship, kinda sly how you changed the named and made it all fancy,or Nibley,or Trento,or Robinson.But since not a single shred of proof has been dug up yet,i wont hold my breath.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:40pmJoespeh, it’s not that you bring up such things, it is the tone used in doing it.
I can give you credit which you would likely never give me. You have obvioulsy done much digging into Mormon Theology. That is to your intellectual efforts. That siad, I sense that you may have been a Mormon at one time and for various reasons have become very bitter. If that is the case, why did you spend so much time studying Mormonism? What is your motive(s)
No matter the tone you use, I will be respectful in words and tone to your Deistic beliefs. No one has to be religious to use courtesy.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:18pmI was once a mormon (maybe?) That‘s the best laugh I’ve had in a while thanks.But no,I was a catholic till I reached the age of reason,like about 12.No after that I read alot of history and religion until I found Jefferson and Paine.But I couldn’t believe the absurd claims brought about by Smith,Young,Benson etc etc.Then I read about Mountain Meadows,the Navuoo Expostior,the blood oath and theodemocracy, I saw something that was not a belief I could ever be fooled into joining.I could give you credit on say a serious topic like factual history but not the daydreams of a polygamist.Sorry that my tone is not what you like,to be believe in such superstitions and far out claims that don’t hold up,but it’s a free country,so believe in what makes you sleep better at night.But if the golden plates magically reappear come get me,I am curious as to what reformed Egyptian looks like.
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:15pmJoseph_Plumb_Martin,
Report Post »I see you have read many writtings but, have you actually read the Holy Bible, not the ammended Catholic version but the real one? It’s the only writting 100% God breathed and inspired. What I see missing in this interesting conversation is one major factor and the bible pushes it hard….“Faith”. Do you folks actually believe in God and who He is? God said, “I’ve made it plain for you to see who I am” (by what He created and who He created). Forget the scientic data and other peoples writtings, do you have the true faith?
.
Martin Luther, Joe Smith, Ellen G White and all the others considered prophets are simply messangers and if what they say doesn’t match exactly 100% with the bible then they are not true prophets. Do they all match? 100%?
mikemackin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:25pmContrarian,
I’m sure you did pray much over it and I respect your commitment to your religion. But what it boils down to is that we both firmly believe what our churches taught us. Now, we both can’t be right? Correct?
If therefor one of us is wrong and one is right how do we find out the truth. Well, you have recieved a witness from the HG that told you what was right. How can anyone argue with that? I, on the other hand, have a whole list of historical, logical, and theological reasons that lead me to a leap of faith.
God would not ask anyone to believe in something that wasn’t logical. For instance, why would God abandon his church for all those centuries when he promised that he would give it the HG and that the gates of hell would not prevail against it? Don’t you think that He knew his apostles would be weak and perhaps fall. The teachings from tradition and scripture are infallable and protected by the HG as God promised. The men may fail from time to time but God wouldn’t let that destroy is teaching.
“Unless you eat my flesh”. How does one deal with that? It is right in the bible. Don’t you think Jesus knew what he was talking about?
I haven’t spent much time studying Mormanism and many other religions for that matter. I was taught the “truth” and then when I was old enough I re-learned it for myself and decide. It can be very simple. For instance, why not just go to the source. Why would I listen to the teaching of..say…Luther or Calvin when there is a direct line from Pope Benedict to Jesus. Who is closer to Jesus…Mohamed or the church fathers of the 3,4,5 centuries. Joseph Smith or John Paul II who recieved his information from Pius the V, who recived it from John the 23rd who recieved it from Piux the 12th right on back to Peter and Jesus.
I just wish we could sit down and talk. Undoubtebly you are a bright guy. And you heart is honest, I can tell. But, could you admit that you may be wrong? I can, but when presented with the proofs I turn back to Jesus’ church everytime.
These serious issues DO require serious investigation. A hard, logical, look. Followed by humble prayer. We need to do both.
Report Post »mikemackin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:35pmJoseph,
You’re reason and logic are refreshing. But I notice you started reading history and other things at age 12. Have you ever gone back and read and Catholic writings post age of reason. You are rightly sceptical about evengelicals and mormans. It doesn’t make any sense that once you accept Jesus and are saved that you automatically go to heaven. And the lack of hard proof for mormanism is tough to swallow. The fact that there are thousands of denominations of protestants means they can‘t agree on the truth and that doesn’t match well with Jesus’ insistance on one faith and one baptism.
Now Catholics have their own hurdles but you gotta admit that it makes the most sense ;)
Report Post »mikemackin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:45pmFloyd,
Please don’t imply that it is faith or science. Love of Jesus or critical historical thinking. Belief in the Word or belief in science.
One can lean on hard scientific facts and still have a deep, loving relationship with Jesus.
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 5:01pmmikemackin
Report Post »I’m not saying scrap all science. Science is important and needed. What I‘m saying is don’t use the sciences to “prove to yourself” that there is or isn’t a God. Unfortuantely, many use that approach instead of actually believing in Him. Science is simply proof that there is a God. The more people try to use science to prove that God doesn’t exist, the more God wll use science to prove He does.
mikemackin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 5:07pmWell put Floyd.
Report Post »Silat
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:04amThe CNN test is flawed. CNN’s description of agnostic is their description of an atheist.
Report Post »Agnostic is to acknowledge. In this case the term agnostic would be used in the description of a power other than oneself involved with creation but unsure of what that power is. That in itself is a god.
Etymology my dear friends. Study it and know it.
Required reading for those wanting to know.
Josephus, otherwise known as Flavius Josephus. 1st century Jewish historian for the Emperor Flavius
Pliny the Younger, son of Pliny the Elder. 1st century Roman Historian that all major universities quote when it is convenient.
Tacitus. 1st century roman historian that major universities quote when convenient.
They all record the death and Crucifix of Christ.
The liberals always want it both ways.
Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:02amThe survey said I know my stuff. The question is easy. I am a God fearing bible believing southerner and I am not surprised that Protestants survey at 15 percent. They believe they will be raptured off, so what’s the use in reading and understanding the bible. Every Christian I know believes they will be raptured off and will not be here when Satan has is time here. That is the sad part. So many so called teachers teaches this false teaching and so many Christians will be unprepared.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:28amNot Mormons. There is a “rapture” however at the time of Christ’s coming before the beginning of the Millenium.
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:49amI don‘t know much about Morman’s beliefs, I just don’t understand why they would believe in Joseph Smith. Jesus told us all things in His Word.
Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
This scripture blows Joseph Smith and any other so called Prophet’s lies out of the water. The Holy Bible is complete. The book of Malichi tells how God will deal with false teachers.
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:53amThere is not rapture. It is not biblical. When Christ returns, He will return to Jerusalem after Satan has already decieved many.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:59amFirst, what I said in my previous post is totally from the Book of Revelations? I did not quote from modern day scriptures?
As to the scripture you quoted, one MUST understand it in the context given. At the time John wrote the Book fo Revelations, the Bible did NOT exists as we know it today. It was even compiled until the 4th Century and only after much dickering by Bishops and other preachers.
That being the case, when John refers to THIS BOOK, he can ONLY be referring to the Book of Revelation. The Bible didn’t EXIST.
So your quote does NOT say that there will not be Prophets again. It warns that those prophets should NOT add to or detract from the Book of Revelations.
Why Joesph Smith as the prophet of the last dispensation before Christ’s return? Mormons believe that many precious doctrines and practices were removed from the Bible over the years by agents of Lucifer. Why? To lead people astray. Look at the thousands of denominations present throughout the Christian world. Confusion reigns. God is NOT the author of confusion.
One example is that the earrly saints did Baptisms for the dead. No other Christian Church except the Mormon Church does baptisms for the dead in our Temples. The baptisms for the dead were restored in Revelations given to Jospeh Smith in the Doctrine and Covenants. I will be galdd to show you where if you wish. Contact me at captainmoroni2009@live.com
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:14pmCountry, I agree that the word Rapture appears no where in the Bible. It is a perfect exmaple of man adding concepts to Christ’s teachings. That’s a major reason why God had to Restore His Gospel.
As Christ decscends at His 2nd Coming, those faithful will be caught up to meet him in the sky, the earth will be cleansed by fire while in the clouds, and all will descend with Jesus and live on a cleansed earth. The earth NOW is fallen and is in Telesetial state.. When cleansed it will be in a Terrestial State with similarities to the Garden of Eden.
I hope you will check out Thessolians and Revelations to verify this. If you wish, we can discuss this further via email at captainmoroni2009@live.com Your call compeletly.
Report Post »WISEPENNY
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:20pmYeah. We’ll wave to you as we are leaving. You aren’t going to like the days following, I promise.
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:31pmYou will not convince me that the book of Mormons is from God. So that being said, I will never believe anything other than what is written in the Holy Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: In Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. In the Book of Revelations, which means to reveal, these seals are reveal to us in the end of the Holy Bible. It is not biblical to baptize a dead person. A person can only be baptized by choose after receiving Christ as Lord and Savior. Shalom
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:49pmWISEPENNY, LOL just make sure you know who exactly you are flying away with. Satan probably looks just like that picture of Jesus on you wall.
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:55pmContrarianthinker, Restore His Gospel? Is that something like restoring honor? Sorry, I couldn’t help it. So if you believe what you just said about meeting Christ in the sky and the earth being cleaned, what is the millennium for? The millennium is only a thousand years, eternity is forever.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:00pmCountry, no one no matterr how great their knowledge or ability to write will ever convince anyone. The only source of convincing truth is the Holy Ghost.
You know what members of other Churches are often told by their preachers to guard them against the Luciferian Mormons? Never them let them bear testimony to you. Never follow their requests to ask the Holy Ghost.
You may disagree with my testimony but you can’t prove it wrong. It’s my testimony based on divine revelation from the Holy Ghost.
The Bible will lead you to much truth but NOT the whole truth. God reveals His mysteries line upon line, precept upon precept. To claim that God doesn’t do this today as He alawys has borders on blasphemy. Who are you to say God can’t speak to Prophets today?? I thought God was a loving God who wants all His children to return to Him. These are evil days. God reveals dotrines and programs that will help us put on ” the whole armour of God.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:03pmCountry, at the end of the Millenium, will shortly come the final judgement and then all will live the in the Kingdoms they earned forever.
WADR. I think you may want to go back and study your Bible more deeply. IMO, you’ve shone quite bit of Bible illeterracy.
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:30pmContrarianthinker, So what is the purpose of the millennium? You can say I’m Bible illeterracy all you want, but I can do this all day. I am not confused. As far as your flying away in the clouds go, I know that you get that from (1 Thes. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.)
Report Post »Hmmm, (Hebrew 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,) could this be the same clouds? and air, check it out in the Greek. “from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by anal. to blow ); “air” (as naturally circumambient): –air. Comp.” Could this be the Breath of Life?
Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:07pmCountry, the purpose of the Millenium is to among other things allow those there to feel and undertstand what total peace and love is like. We will NOT be perfect there so we need to repent. Rememebr that God commands us to be perfect/complete if you prefer. It is NOT just sitting around on a cloud playing harps.It takes time to be Godlike in our qualities.
From Mormon Theology, I learn that it is also a time to do the Temple ordinaces necessary for those who are dead. These people need to be located and that’s why the Mormon Churchh has the largest Geneological records of anyone else. Thre are over a 150 Temples now and there will be 1000′s more in the Millenium.
I understand that you reject the idea of a millenia period. That is fine with me although both the New and Old Testaments clearly outline this period of time. You apparently reject the scripture about meeting Jesus in the clouds as He cleanes the earth. Tat’s fine with me.
I do have a major advantage over you. I accept that God continues to send Revelations to us. The Mormons have living Prophets as well as past revelations in the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Many if NOT most of the different interpretations and misundertsandings about doctrine are cleared up by this sacred latter day revelations.
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:24pmI guess my last post was deleted.
Contrarianthinker, I do believe in the Millennium. I believe in the biblical version. There will be a thousand years after Christ second advent. This is a time for teaching, teaching the truth. God is a God of love and alot of people who did not accept Christ before will have a chance during the millennium. Then Satan will be turned loose to decieve whosoever will let him. Then Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire and then the great white throne judgment. I think you are rude for calling me biblical illeterracy just because I don‘t buy into Joseph Smith’s false teachings.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:42pmCountry, I aplogize. Wecare on the same page now about the millenium and subsaequent events.
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:50pmAs a Christian myself, I do not believe in the so-called “rapture” that many churches teach. From what I’ve heard, many believe that they will be raptured right before the &%$@ hits the fan. Unfortunately, there is no scripture to reinforce that belief. Second, when did God prevent anyone from facing difficult times? He didn’t. He lead them thru them. Noah thru the flood, Daniel in the lions den, Shadrach, Mishach & Abednego thru the furnace and last of all Jesus on the cross. There are many other examples but these are the most common. God was with them all the way.
Report Post ».
We will face the demise of the planet. We will face the wars, sickness, starvation, the new powers, the decline of the United States and everything else that comes our way UNTIL Jesus arrives the second time. It’s the third time (after the 1000 years and the New Jerusalem comes out of heaven and lands on the mount of olives) that satan and his followers burn to ashes in the lake of fire.
firedragon
Posted on September 30, 2010 at 9:06pmI agree country The Bible is the truth let god be the truth & every man a liar !
Report Post »Flagwaver
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:59amI am a general Christian Chaplain Candidate in the Army. I scored 10 out of 10, but that is not the limit to my knowledge. I am also well versed in Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Wicca, Druidism, and several other varying religion both common and “new age.”
Whether you believe or not, there is no reason for ignorance.
Report Post »Hope1620
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:49amThe man on the cross next to Jesus was ignorant, but saved. But knowledge of other religions is very helpful in sharing the gospel of the One True God.
Report Post »http://revelationrainbow.com/
Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:31amFlag, well said. The Mormon Doctrine and Covenants command in a number of places that we have such general knowledge. That is a major reason why Mormons place so much emphasis on education.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:34amHope, he was sent to Paradise, a place of holding of righteous, repentant souls until the Resurrection. The criminal will also have to be taught the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and fully accept it. Then he will need to be baptised but a spirit can’t be baptized? That’s the reason we do baptisms for the dead in Mormon Temples. So that all will be judged and perform the same ordinances whether her in mortality or in the spirit world. God is one of both justice and Mercy.
Report Post »Flagwaver
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:02pmWell, theological differences aside, I fully support religious education in schools. Not pushing one religion or another, but examining all religions and debating their merits. Definitely in the Junior/Senior year of high school, after a person be expected (hopefully) to form a logical opinion.
Unfortunately, it would never fly. Either that or it would face bias or focus on one religion (though I highly doubt it will be Christianity with the current Dept. of Ed.).
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 6:01pmWhile schools do teach religions within a historical context, I see a big problem with debating religions and discussing the “merits” of each. How would you like to be the only Jewish student in that class? Or the only Hindu?
Report Post »JamesonLewis3rd
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:57amI am glad I did not embarrass myself by taking this quiz.
Now, for extra credit, graph this: 0.2344666% answered them all correctly, while 0.1758499% missed them all.
Report Post »BobBlazeReader
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:50amEven “Christian” families are failing to give their children Biblical literacy…to say nothing of a genuine spiritual understanding/relationship with God. Perhaps 2 in 30 in my son’s youth group can even name the first book of the Bible…I am NOT making this up!!
Report Post »country98
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:04amIf you like I will be glad to send you FREE bible reading cards that will take you through the O.T. once and theh N.T twice in a year by reading three different sections of the bible a day. It takes about 30 min. a day. You might be surprised what you read, it is not what comes out of the mouth of the preachers. freebible91@gmail.com
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:41amOne of the many great, inspired programs that Mormon’s have is “Family Home Evening”. This night , USUALLY MONDAY,is set apart ONLY for family scriptural teaching and fun together. No Chruch meetings are permitted on Family night. There is a Family Home Evening Gudie available to help as well as many otherr support materials.
In addition, familys are counseled to have daily study and prayer in both the Morning and Evenings as a FAMILY in addition of course to individual prayer
For teen agers, we have Seminary which usually takes place in early Morning hours everyday that there is school. We hope that all men and women will serve a full-time mission. They need a sound grounding in the scriptures to do this. Even with all this, we lose all to many young people to the lures of Lucifer.
To Mormons we believe “THAT NO OTHER SUCCESS IN LIFE WILL COMPENSATE FOR FAILURE IN THE HOME.”
Report Post »Sam T. Mullins
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:45amI a Conservative born again evangelical Christian of the Baptist denomination, born and raised in the south, living in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida for the past 47 years of my life, and I got 10 of 10 right…
I wonder the results would be different demographics by age and region as well ? ? ?
Oh Well…
Report Post »God Bless…
Jamestown
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:44amIts a PEW poll…left wing BULLSH T..Jesus told you something twice …right in a row…LEARN THE PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE..well did ya big shot?…LEARN THE PARABLE OF THE FI TREE…YOU GOT ORDERS CHRISTIAN…..what is about tohappen will rotqlly airprise you..the government ia shutting down…ask a marine…glen gave us a clue…FEAR+HUNGER=THE END
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:08amI know the parable of the figrtree. ;) Do you have the Key of David? Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:50amThe key of David? Jesus Christ came through the loins of Judah through David. Both Mary and Joseph were decended from Judah.
This key as well as many other priesthood keys in the latter days resides in Joseph Smith who is a direct descendant of Ephraim and Judah. These keys have been passed down to each subsequent Mormon Prophet and now reside with Thomas Monson.
Eventaully all these Priesthood keys will be passed back to Jesus Christ at a place in the scriptures called Adam Andi Ammon. Notice that the ancient of days presides. This person is Adam. Once Adam receives all the keys from all the Prophets of every eartly dispensation, Adam will then pass these keys back to Jesus Christ who will then become literally King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Shortly therefater, Christ will come to all peoples and be the world’s King to reign throughout the Millenia period.
I hope this helps answer the question?.
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:06pmDo Mormons believe that Jesus is God?
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:06pmGod the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says. Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 742
So yeah,where does Joseph fit in?
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:12pmThe key is the answer to the mystery that is given to us in the Word if we learn it with understand. It has nothing to do with anything in the book of Mormans. Christ came though the king bloodline of Judah and He also came the the Priest bloodline of the Levits. There is not mistakes in God’s word and it is complete.
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:14pmJamestown, Yep I see you do know the Key of David. ;)
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:24pmCountry, we believe that there is a Godhead made up up of (1) God the Father who we worship, (2) Jesus Christ the son who is savior of the world and our advocate with the Father, and (3) the Holy Ghost who is a testator of the divinity of Jesus Christ and the source to ALL truth.
All three are GODs but serve different functions. Jesus and the HG are subserviant to the Father but are of the same mind,, totally unified. What one thinks and does, the others do also.
We reject the orthodox teachings of three God but ONLY one God. To know more about this contact me at captainmoroni2009@live.com
Joespeh, thank you for actually posting the words rather than telling us. Let us judge for ourselves.
I admit that I don’t undertsand your final comment nor what you feel we should conclude. If you remain respectful as I am of your Deisim, I willing to continue a respectful dialogue but perhaps better offline at captainmoroni2009@live.com
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:35pmAnd Con thank you for admitting your religion is polytheism.No wonder mainstream christian doesn’t accept the teachings of Smith or whatever your current prophet claims
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:38pmYou said “Jesus Christ came through the loins of Judah through David. Both Mary and Joseph were decended from Judah.” Yet your church teaches that your god heavenly father literally,physically impregnanted Mary.So how does Joseph’s loins fit into this narrative?
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:43pmContrarianthinker, What about Melchisedec? Jesus is God, if you seen the Son, you seen the Father. The Holy Spirit is God’s spirit. One God, born in flesh to defeat Satan and offer us salvation if we believe and repent. Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:16pmFolks, this is NOT a website about different religions.
FYI, I’m a convert since 1965. Many of those years, I’ve been a called or voluntary missionary. I have heard ALL the objections given to Mormonism. I’ve honestly looked at every objection and took it to the Holy Ghost. There is nothing new under the son.
Bottom line is that all truth comes from the Holy Ghost. If one refuses to go to the source of all truth, there is nothing I can say that will help you.
FWIW, Glenn is a solid Mormon convert like me. I can tell you that his approaches are being led by the revelations he gets through the Holy Ghost. He often quotes Mormon Theology on his TV show. Maybe you better stop watching because Glen is the servant of Lucifer.
However,anyone who attended 8/28 felt the Sprit of God there. Glenn e has the Melchezidec Priesthood. God blessed Glenn and the whole event. Many there felt the love and spirit of the Holy Ghost.
IF you want to discuss this further, contact me at captainmoroni2009@live.com
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:42pmContrarianthinker, Those who attended the 8/28 probably felt each others spirit. What do you mean by saying Glenn has Melchisedec Priesthood? I know Glenn pushes his religion on his show, I do not watch his show for his religion, I am turned off by that and haven’t watch his who much because of it. I watch Glenn’s show for current events. He has a great staff and he continues to tell about all this deciet going on with our counrty. Do you know who Melchisedec is?
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:19pmCountry, the spirit of brotherhood/sisterhood was felt and this happened because the Holy Spirit settled on those of us who are spititually in tune. Almost like the day of Pentacost.
The Melchediek Priesthoos is taught clearly in Hebrews and other places as well as in the Old Tesament. I would suggest you use a Bible Concordence to study this. It may prove eye opening.
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:32pmI know who Melchisedec, He is Christ, Jesus, God. Abraham paid tithes to Him, Melchisedec is the only One Abraham would pay tithes too.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:47pmCountry, I realize that yours is the orthodox interpreetation BUT if one looks clsoely at the whole discussion in Hebrews, one will see that Melchezidek was one like unto Christ, He was NOT Chriust but served as a shadow of Christ. The Melchedek Priesthood has no beginning of days or end of years. And it is necessary to claim the authority of God to do things in His name.
Be glad to talk about this more at captainmoroni2009@live.com Your call.
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:03pmMatthew 1
The Genealogy of Jesus
1A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,
7Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[a] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13Zerubbabel the father of Abiud,
Abiud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Eliud,
15Eliud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.[b]
The Birth of Jesus Christ
18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[c] because he will save his people from their sins.”
22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23″The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[d]—which means, “God with us.”
24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
Report Post »Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:08pmFloyd57, That is Joseph’s geneolgy in Matthews. Mary’s geneology is in Luke 3. Jesus did not come from Solomon’s line, but though Nathan’s line. King Solomon took alot of wives with false idols. Mary is from the line of Judah and Levit because her cousin Elizabeth was a Levit. This mades Jesus a King and a Priest by law.
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:29pmCountry,
Report Post »This is as titled and copied directly form the bible, “The genealogy of Jesus”. Luke and Matthews are the basicallyt the same. Their both correct. The difference is, Matthew begins with Abraham (the father of the Jewish people) while Luke traces the line in the reverse order and goes back to Adam showing Jesus’ relationship to the whole human race.
Country
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 7:47pmLook again, Nathan son of David is from Mary’s linage and Joseph comes from the linage of Solomon. Jesus did not come from the linage of Solomon.
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 29, 2010 at 3:35pmCountry,
Report Post »I copied and pasted Matthew 1 directly from Biblegateway.com using the New International Version bible. You can find any bible version you want on this site. This entire scripture is directly from the bible so whoever taught you is absolutely wrong. If your using a catholic, mormon or jehovas witness version, those have been changed to fit their own beliefs.
Country
Posted on September 29, 2010 at 8:46pmLuke 3:31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David, JKV
Matthew 1:6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; JKV
Jesus boldline came thru Mary, and she is a descendant of Nathan, not Solomon. Jesus did not have Joseph’s blood who is a descendant of King Solomon. King Solomon and Nathan are half brothers. I don’t understand the confusion and why you think whoever taught is absolutely wrong. I study from the King James Version which is more accurate then the NIV.
Report Post »jettson
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:41am8 out of 10 and I believe Jesus Christ is the only way
Report Post »Jamestown
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:50amRIGHT ON JETTSON…ONE WAY STREET DUDE..JESUS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN GIVE ETERNAL LOFE…3Nails+1The cross of Jesus=4GIVEN
Report Post »country98
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:34amIf you go and read and study the Law of Moses you will find Israel was not to learn about the religions of those in the land or around them. Why? It would cause them to turn from the one true God. They did not keep the Word of God and they were driven from the promise land.
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:50amGood response! Also, where are all of those various “religions” in the old testament? Gone as will 99% of today’s religions. God created one way, His way. Why people worship creations instead of the one any only Creator is amazing. But hey, as it is written, “one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess” .
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:06amCountry98,
I suggest you speak to a rabbi on this point–I doubt any but the most ultra-orthodox would suggest you take this as a hard-and-fast rule that requires you to be ignorant of those around you.
But, of course, if you are a Christian, you have already broken this rule by reading the Christian scriptures, so it’s a moot point.
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:24pmPubliusPencilman,
Report Post »Country98 isn’t refering to Christian sciptures, he’s refering to to word of God also known as the Holy Bible (see 2 Timothy 23:16-17). God didn’t create the Christian religion, man did. The bible is completely God inspired, as in, God used man as His writing instrument. The apostles and disciples where originally known as followers of “The Way”. Learn why God created the Jews, what their purpose was, why they completely failed and how He implemeted Plan B, Option 2 and you’ll see where you come into play.
PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:49pmHa! If I just learn those things then I will come to enlightenment? Why didn’t I think of that! And here I am, dwelling in darkness, knowing things about the religions of this planet. How stupid am I!
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:42pmPubliusPencilman,
Report Post »You can learn all the religions you want, and good luck because there’s thousands of them out there but there is only one “way” to the pearly gates…..buy the “way”, don’t go knocking on that “big front door”, the “little one” on the side will get you in….(oh, before I forget, God, the one that created everything, said, I am the “way”).
PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 5:57pmAgain, thanks for that thoroughly helpful answer. I should have no trouble at all in the afterlife–but I appreciate your concern.
Report Post »Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:33amThere is a very good reason why people are illiterate when it comes to spiritual things. Don’t take my word for it. This is what the Bible says about the matter.
Report Post »Jeremiah 23: 1 – 8 tells us, “Woe to the shepherds (our religious leaders) who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture! declares the Lord. Therefore this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done, declares the Lord. I myself will gather the remnant of my flock OUT OF ALL THE COUNTRIES WHERE I HAVE DRIVEN THEM AND WILL BRING THEM BACK TO THEIR PASTURE (Israel), where they will be fruitful and increase in number. I will place shepherds (new religious leaders) over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing, declares the Lord. The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. In his days JUDAH WILL BE SAVED (meaning, the Southern Kingdom of Judah that was taken captive to Babylon, but was later allowed to return to the land of Israel) and ISRAEL WILL LIVE IN SAFETY (In Scripture the name Israel means, the people of the Northern Kingdom of Israel that went into captivity to Assyria, but never returned to the Promised Land and are still lost to this day). This is the name by which he will be called: The Lord Our Righteousness. So then, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when people will no longer say, As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt (in Moses’ day), but they will say, As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the DESCENDANTS OF ISRAEL up out of the land of the north and OUT OF ALL THE COUNTRIES WHERE HE HAD BANISHED THEM (this has not happened to this day). Then they will live in their own land.”
Ezekiel 34: 1 – 31 tells us basically the same thing. “The word of the Lord came to me (Ezekiel): Son of man, prophesy AGAINST THE SHEPHERDS of Israel; prophesy and say to them: This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the shepherds (the religious leaders) of Israel WHO ONLY TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock. You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays (meaning the Jews scattered and dispersed around the world) or searched for the lost (the Lost Tribes of Israel that are still not identified to this day). You have ruled them harshly and brutally. So they were scattered BECAUSE THERE WAS NO SHEPHERD, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild animals (their enemies). My sheep wandered OVER ALL THE MOUNTAINS (mountains means nations in Scripture) and ON EVERY HIGH HILL (hill means country in Scripture). They were SCATTERED OVER THE WHOLE EARTH, and NO ONE SEARCHED OR LOOKED FOR THEM. Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, BECAUSE MY FLOCK LACKS A SHEPHERD and so has been plundered and has become food for all the wild animals (their enemies), and because my shepherds (religious leaders) did not search for my flock but cared for themselves rather than for my flock, therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I AM AGAINST THE SHEPHERDS AND WILL HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR MY FLOCK. I will REMOVE THEM from tending the flock so that the shepherds CAN NO LONGER FEED THEMSELVES. I WILL RESCUE MY FLOCK from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them. For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself will SEARCH FOR MY SHEEP and look after them. As a shepherd looks after his SCATTERED FLOCK when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from ALL THE PLACES where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness (the days of destruction that the Israelites suffered at the hands of their enemies). I WILL BRING THEM OUT OF THE NATIONS AND GATHER THEM FROM THE COUNTRIES, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. I will tend them in a good pasture, and the mountain heights of Israel will be their grazing land. There they will lie down in good grazing land, and there they will feed in a rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign Lord. I will SEARCH FOR THE LOST (the Lost Tribes of Israel) and bring back THE STRAYS (the Jews scattered around the world). I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with JUSTICE. As for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will judge between one sheep and another, and between rams and goats. Is it not enough for you to feed on good pasture (speaking to the religious leaders that take the best and give little back to God’s people)? Must you also TRAMPLE THE REST OF YOUR PASTURE WITH YOUR FEET? Must my flock feed on WHAT YOU HAVE TRAMPLED AND DRINK WHAT YOU HAVE MUDDIED WITH YOUR FEET? (The religious leaders have built their empires and then turned around and feed God’s people with muddy water, not teaching them the whole truth.) Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says to them: See, I myself will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. Because you shove with flank and shoulder, butting all the weak sheep with your horns UNTIL YOU HAVE DRIVEN THEM AWAY, I will SAVE MY FLOCK, and they will no longer be plundered. I will judge between one sheep and another. I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. I the Lord will be THEIR GOD, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the Lord have spoken. I will make a covenant of peace with them and rid the land of wild beasts (the enemies of Israelites) so that they may live in the desert and sleep in the forests in safety. I will BLESS THEM and the places surrounding my hill (country). I will send down showers in season; there will be SHOWERS OF BLESSING. The trees of the field will yield their fruit and the ground will yield its crops; the people will be secure in their land. They will know that I am the Lord, when I break the bars of their yoke and rescue them FROM THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO ENSLAVED THEM. They will no longer be plundered by the nations, nor will wild animals devour them. They will live in safety; and no one will make them afraid. I will provide them A LAND renowned for its crops, and they will no longer be victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations. Then they will know that I, the Lord their God, am with them and that they, THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL (meaning all 12 tribes of Israel), are my people, declares the Sovereign Lord. You my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are people, and I am your God, declares the Sovereign Lord.”
This is precisely why people do not know much about Christianity and the Bible. They have depended on their shepherds, their religious leaders to guide them, and these very religious leaders have failed them. The New Testament is the blueprint for the true Christian (Christ-like) Church, but today, because of divisions in the Church, and man‘s opinions there are multiple religions and factions in this Church and TRUTH HAS BEEN THROWN TO THE GROUND and God’s people go out into eternity lost, because their shepherds have feed them nothing but dirty water.
country98
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:08amI read all of what you wrote! It shows you read the bible. When you read ALL of the Word of God you cannot be duped!! Go Girl!!
Report Post »WISEPENNY
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:59amI just read it in it’s entirety. We will pray for your A.D.D., BOBBLAZEREADER. Thanks, Mary. God bless you for that Manna.
Report Post »NoName22
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:11pmI just want to back up those quotes of Jeremiah and Ezekiel….
All of us that know World History know the Bible ties right in…..excuse me World History ties into the Bible……anyway:
Jews leave Egypt, move to Promised Land (Israel)
Assyrians (Persians) move in after Joash restores the Temple and Zedekiah sins so bad that God can’t deal with it anymore. So the Jewish people are swept up and taken into the Persian empire.
Cyrus subsequently lets them return to rebuild the temple.
Rome takes over the world, and Jesus is born into a Roman controlled Jewish population…
The Ottoman Turks come in and run everyone north into Eastern Europe.
Hitler comes along and is thankfully vanquished, Israel is reinstated and Jews are able to move back.
Point is: All this movement around the world, Hebrew bloodlines have surely been mixed in everywhere……God will surely gather his sheep…..The LORD works in mysterious ways.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:24pmNoName, I testify that the gathering of Israel is occuring as I speak. It is the role given to Ephriam in Jacob’s blessing. Most Priesthood holdres and sisters are linked to Ephriam. It will NOT be long when all those who accept christ will be gathered in.
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:26amPoll Christians with bible questions and poll Muslims on the quran if you want to know their knowledge of their beliefs. When it comes to “religions” I (a Christian) do not know squat about hinduism, budism, islam and really don’t care to. I’ll stick solely with the “creator of the heavens, earth, the seas and all that is in them”.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:55pmOK, but do me a favor and don’t pretend you can understand anything about U.S. foreign policy, since you have no interest in learning anything about the rest of the world.
Report Post »Floyd57
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:53pmNow your comparing apples to eggs. Politics is life or all of the “BS” on this planet and yes, you had better be aware of the changes and struggles of this world and learn how to adapt and survive but, that’s all it is, life on this planet. Religion or belief in God is life on this planet AND the everlasting life with God. There is more to living than just spending time on this sphere to survive. With God, He said I am the way which means there are no other options. Politics? We have plenty all ready.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 5:55pmSo you don’t vote?
Report Post »DRAIN_THE_CESSPOOL
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:23amOk, I took the test. Super easy. But this test doesn’t prove anything. It only proves that I know a few general things about different religions. They are trivia questions. This made front page on CNN? I think it’s very misleading and aims to make religious people look bad. For example, my mother may not know who Joseph Smith is, but she can give you theological explanations about any topic in the bible…
Report Post »longhorn mama
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:46amI think you are right. I got a perfect score but there were no real questions on the nuances of Christianity. Now if there had been more questions on the nuances of other religions, like Hindu or something, I would have had more difficulty.
Report Post »donbcg
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:07amNo doubt that we all could use a little more study of the Word. But understanding the workngs of other religions does not a saved person make.
Salvation is for those who relinquish their soul to the will of God. To allow your sins to flow from you to Him. Simply being scholarly does not give yu greater favor.
That being said. We should understand the variances of not only other religions, but also variations in our own faith. All have thier place and as Americans we should share insight with our neighbors and try to allow value to any religion. We should aspouse to find equality for all men regardless of faith.
I suspect the reason Aitheests/Agnostics have a greater knowlege of other faiths is that they have placed the challenge internally. They have sought to disprove the faith or reigion that 99% of all men have. Wise choice.
As far as why the Bible Belt faiths have less knowledge of other faiths probably has more to do with the much ,arger presence of like mind faiths. The northern states have far greater diversity of international faiths. In my town we have 87 churches. All are Christian. Hard to know what Islam is about if you only associate with Christians.
Report Post »moriarty70
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:40amJust one agnostic opinion here, but I don’t try to disprove anything. If anything, I try to respect the practicies of any religious building I happen to be in, and I have been in my share over the years.
My biggest contention with all organized religion has been that none have ever struck me as true, but simply self serving and trying to get the most people. “Not only do I offer salvation, but unlike those guys over there, I also come with bacon!”
So, after looking around for years I came to the conclusion that if there is a higher power they’d have more respect for me if I live a good life instead of focusing on a worshipful life.
But again, that‘s just my view and I can’t say if it applies to everyone.
Report Post »NoName22
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:56amMoriarty
You have a problem with religion, like most atheists and agnostics. Not a problem with faith.
Christianity, Islam, Judaism, these are faiths.
Baptism, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Sufi, Sunni, Shiite, Wahabbi…..these are religions.
Let not a preacher or pastor or imam, who preaches the word for his own gain, steer you from the path. Atheists that I have met refuse to believe in God, simply because of this. Why would you let a person with evil intentions dictate what God is to you? Learn for yourself. Pick up the books and read them yourself. God only asks that we say thank you and exalt his name, for all that he has given to us.
I happen to believe that alot of what Jesus and Buddha teach go hand in hand. But the words Jesus shares are just like nothing else….
Report Post »moriarty70
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:22amWell that’s just it. I don’t let anyone, evil or otherwise, dictate what God is to me. All those questions and searches have been an internal task for me. Even as a kid I saw some elements in the basics of many religions that didn’t mesh with my logic. You could almost say that common sense turned me away from any particular faith.
That being said, I mentioned before I don‘t fault anyone their belief’s. They had to come to theirs just as I came to mine. And just as I would respect the traditions of a friends house, I try to respect the traditions of any house of worship I happen to enter.
Report Post »NoName22
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:54pmMoriarty I’ll leave you with this:
Stephen Hawking came out and said matter and energy created the universe, therefore God has no reason to exist.
Two things wrong with that:
Report Post »1. Where is the start button for matter and energy?
2. Just because Hawking explained HOW the universe came into existence, does not explain WHY the universe came into existence. This knowledge alone rests with God. The intention of life, the purpose of life, WHY life exists.
moriarty70
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:03pmI actually picked up The Grand Design recently. I haven’t had the time to sit down and read it yet, but I hope he does address some of those issues over the course of it.
Report Post »donbcg
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:41pmI think you fail to understand the truth about Jesus. I will try to explain it for I was once an Athiest.
Jesus died on the cross to allow for all men to be relieved of sin. During His time the church had done what many have done in this day. Made the church the house of God. Or as many preachers say, “This is God’s house.” Not so much. Jesus was to teach us that God resides not in the house, but in the spirit. And that spirit resides in all men.
You see the church or temple of God is inside of you. The church building is where we go to show reverence as a group.
In many ways religion that chooses the building version use an almost collective salvation theology. Through this house, through this minister, through this saint, through this Pope. That is a perversion of the Gospel. Each person was removed of sin by Jesus because God can have no sin before Him.
We are all men of flesh and flesh is corrupt. Adam and Eve were the first to be corrupted. Moses taught us His law. And Jesus was sent to wash away the sin that keeps us from being in direct contact with God. Once you have been saved, all your sins have been forgiven. You do not need a minister, or church to contact God because He is inside you now.
Many believe Jesus will someday come back and deliver us from evil. And I for one hope he does. I don‘t know if he will or if he won’t. But, whether he does or not scripture tells us that he already come, died, and risen. He came in the physical to teach us, He died to suffer our sins, and he arose inside each of us so that we no longer would be tempted in our faith to worship a building, a Pope, a minister, or whatever.
You see your opinion unfortunately has been scewed by a perversion of the faith. I am not the most scholarly theologist in world, but I do read and I do understand Jesus. He was to teach us that no man is above Him. Not even Jesus. So, you can be a believer and be saved all the same without even joining a religion. Because in Jesus there is no religion. There is only one church. There is one church for each of us. The church is in you.
That is the difference between 2 key issues we face today. Individual Salvation vs. Collective Salvation. Divine Provedence vs. Manifest Destiny. The latter of both require a mediator. I prefer the former.
I hope this helps. If you need more let me know on Twitter. Same call sign.
God Bless You.
Report Post »NoName22
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:05pmDONBCG, that is straight up…..
Alot of what you said I have inferred from reading about Buddha, and I find the teachings of Jesus correlate well with what you have said, as well as what Buddha has said.
But I‘m gonna be hanging onto what you’ve shared.
Report Post »moriarty70
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:45pm@DonBCG
Now we’re getting down to the crux of it. It sounds like you and I are on the same board as to organized systems that are becoming nothing different than the money changers in many ways.
The real sticking point for me with Christianity itself, and one of the reasons I never got behind it as a whole, is the divinity of Jesus. To me I find more inspiration in a man who is a great leader of men since that is something everyone has the potential to reach. Once you look at Jesus as divine then all the good has the potential to be viewed as beyond human.
I know that’s not how most people view the situation, and really, at the level we’re talking about with each other I guess it comes down to semantics.
And may I just say to everyone here that I’ve loved this thread today. Many times I play devils advocate when my friends bring up points or people are talking religion, and many of them are quick to point to someone who disagrees as flat out wrong and or stupid and that’s that. It‘s really refreshing to deal with people who aren’t afraid of questions.
Report Post »donbcg
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:26pmNoName22 & Moriarty70-
Sadly, most do not understand that most religions actually believe very similar things. Maybe under different pretexts but the nitty gitty is really the same. Typically, it‘s the end game and how we get back to God that’s the sticker.
The problem with organized religion is that you cannot organize individual spirit. At the end of the day we all have free will, right? I go to church every Sunday. I belong to a Southern Baptist Missionary Church. Which in the end is like saying I belong to club med. And like the place enough to go every week.
I also attend bible study and teach biblical priciples to people who have yet to transition from somewhat to full believer.
I in no way am trying to convince you of your faith. I simply point to the obvious and alllow the juices to flow until you can decide for yourself. I go to church and do what I do with the church because it is where I find acceptance.
All humans need that acceptance. Regardless of how tough we are in mind and body. No one wants to be alone. We all flock to religion for acceptance of our beliefs, validated by others who share similar belief. At the end of the day, I find that even in this tight little group at my church everyone has a slightly different take on what He says. Or what they think is truth. You know, my way, your way, and the right way.
The only true test I have found for anyone to see God’s work is to really let go and be a part of it. When I say let go, I mean enter with no question. Enter boldly and be a part of the discussion. There are no wrong answers. There are no right answers. Because each of us must answer alone regardless.
The problem I have seen is that when you go to church as an Agnostic, there is a little baggage in the coffer. A hint of disbelief that is not embraced by those in the church. They view you as an outsider. You sense this and further withdraw because you do not feel the acceptance you require as a child of God. The church is wrong because that is not God’s work. We must embrace you regardless becuase you are not there for them, and they are not responsible for your relationship with God. They become a manifest destiny crowd. Leaving those who may doubt in further doubt.
There is no perfect church. There is no perfect person. Once you feel that acceptance, it is like suddenly God has wrapped you in his arms and says “you get it now!”. And you say, “Yes” and mean it.
I honestly think that is the key to God and if not God, to lasting peace. Whatever your choice of faith may be, find that peace and that acceptance. If you do not keep looking.
Report Post »printdesignchicago.com
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:38amand ONE THING ALL RELIGIONS HAVE IN COMMON – SALVATION
Report Post »NHBuckeye
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:47amNo, they all recognize the NEED for salvation.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:22amPrint, no othodox Christianity condemns you to hellfire IF you don‘t accept Christeven if you weren’t given the opprotunity to her of Christ in this life.
I love Mormon Theology because if one is a truly good person and say is an athiest or Buddhist, they will NOT go to a fiery hell. They will be sent to spirit prison until the time of the resurrection. While there they will be taught the pure Gospel of Christ. They can either reject it or accept it. Mormons do Temple work for the dead for those all because we don’t know who will accept or reject. We KNOW thyat God is both just and merciful.
We have a concept of three degrees of Glory/Heaven and also outer darkness ( fiery hell) where Lucifer and his angels reside. There will be but few people who lived on earth who will assigned to outer darkness.
Good people will be assigned to the Terrestrial Glory where they will have the opportunity to commune with Jesus Christ BUT NO God the Father. The restored Gospel provides ordinanaces in our Temples that can lead back to the Clestial Glory where God Himself resides.
For anyone wanting to better understand this, go to the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 76. Feel free to contact me at captainmoroni2009@live.com
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:41amContrarianthinker,
And you wonder why people cannot accept Mormonism? Nothing you said here has anything to do with the teachings of Jesus in the Bible. You are following a whole new religion that has no faithful scriptural adherence to God’s Word.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:46amBut we can all dream of those fun summer nights on Kolob can’t we?
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:35pmWhiteFang, sorry but all are referenced in the Bible. The problem is that they were known by the early members so when they are mentioned briefly, they understood by today‘s Christians have received so much false doctrine that they don’t have the eyes to see nor the ears rto hear. If you want proof of this, contact me at captainmoroni2009@live.com. Have your Bible open and ready.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:45pmContrarianthinker,
The book of Mormon is a new book which Mormons accept over the Bible. I talked to some Mormons who said ‘the Bible is true as long as it conforms to the book of Mormon’. So, if Gods Word says a certain thing and the book of Mormon says something different, Mormons will take their new book over the Bible every time. My previous statement stands!
Report Post »BQI
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:38amFLASH————Religion does not save you and get you to heaven. The path is Jesus Christ.
Black Conservative Blog: http://www.blackquillandink.com
Report Post »Marylou7
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:59amAmen!! Love your website.
Report Post »Zoe
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:09amRight you are…..!
Hung by by religion the way I look at it…..
A lot of carnal knowledge will get you real far to understand religion……
But a quality relation with any one requires that you spend time with them…….
So you leave that out of the equation to “understand” by spending quite time in His presence as well as prayer and reading His word…..
of course you won’t find Him………………..You (maybe unintentionally) are denying Him before you get started…
You were not seeking Him in the first place………………..
The choice is yours, it’s a free will deal come as you are………
The Gideons will give you a book if you just need head knowledge……..
Peace
Report Post »WISEPENNY
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:27amJohn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: NO MAN can come unto the Father, but by me.
Report Post »If you don’t get that FACT straight, then proceed from there, all your “so called and self proclaimed” wisdom and faith in anything is pure futility. End of Story. You can argue at the top of your lungs, but after your spirit (you) departs from your body (you die) you WILL meet Jesus Christ face to face and one of two things will happen. You will either be exceedingly glad to meet the one that you adore, or you will fear and tremble as your life filled with “dead and worthless works” of self perceived goodness become exposed by the TRUTH. These “works of darkness and deceit” will pass before you one by one at the “speed of thought” with an overwhelming sense of fully deserving punishment for those evil deeds that filled your life. (Remember, you will be standing in the presence of pure truth.) He will then say to you, since you stubbornly decided to find your own path to God and reject the blood sacrifice that was provided (the only possible ritual of atonement for your evil deeds that God the Father deems adequate to cleanse you from your otherwise uncleanable, miserable state of selfishness), Jesus will cast you into banishment from God forever. There will never be any parole hearing. It will be an “eternal life sentence”, irrevocable.
The irony of the whole scenario will be those that chose to believe the truth and allow Jesus to be their substitute will receive an “irrevocable” gift of eternal membership in the real Kingdom of the real Creator. Thus, the saying pertaining to the “wailing and gnashing of teeth‘ will be demonstrated by the one’s that fell for the lie about how there “are many paths to God”. All you atheists and pretend “pew warming” Christians better group up the facts and ask Jesus the Christ’s Holy Spirit to possess you, quickly, before the door to the only entrance to Heaven is slammed shut in your face. Today is the day to receive the blessed assurance of the promises of God to those that love Him. Ask Jesus Christ to begin to guide your paths from this day forward or suffer the unavoidable outcome for rejecting Him.
Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:47pmWise, what a solid testimony. No one can prove a testimony wrong no matter how loud they shout. The sceptics refuse to follow the required process to gain a testimony similar to your. They have total pride and no humilty. Their mind and intellect are all there is.
Report Post »printdesignchicago.com
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:38amany survey can be made in such a way to produce desired results. fox news does it all the time with the questions in their ‘sidebar polls’ they take. the questions are geared towards an answer of a particular result. this is the main reason why these ‘polls’ and ‘surveys’ are not wholly indicative of the general opinions on a subject.
Report Post »Andrewk369
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:19pmsoooo true
Report Post »jarhead6523
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:30amThis quiz is stupid!!! Knowledge about religion is not knowledge about the most important thing (the bible, the Word of God)!!! Knowing who Luther was or what religion Joseph Smith has nothing to do with the salvation of my soul.
Report Post »Jackson
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:51amI agree that salvation is personal, but being aware of others is a good thing too.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:57amAgreed Jackson
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:10amJarhead:
Paul the Apostle was a great missionary. He counseled us wisely. He said that I become all things to all men so that by some means I might convert some. Paraphrasing.
Mormons receive a great honest education in world religions. We send missionaries to every country that allows the Gospel of Jesus Christ to be preached. Even in those countries that won’t allow preaching like Israel, we send Missionaries to help with poverty, etc.
Like other religions, we have some more committed than others. BUT, if you take advantage of the programs, you will recieve a great education about the religions and peoples of the world.
BTW, we do NOT attack the theologies of Baptists, etc but present their religious positions as fairly as we can. For all to many fundamentalists and evangleicals, there lessons about Mormons are simply false wirness attacks on Mormonism We try very hard to obey the 9th Commandment and only ask others to do the same.
Report Post »mikemackin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:16amReally? What if Luther told you not to read the bible? Would he be unimportant then? You only believe sola scripture because that is what Luther taught.
Not to mention, Jesus passed his Word on by word of mouth for the first few hundred years so do you think it wasn’t important to those first century christians who they believed?
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:24amMike, who are you addressing your post to? What key conclusions are you asking us to take?
Report Post »NoName22
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:43amThe problem I have with Christianity (not Jesus Christ) but Christianity is this:
Exodus 20:4-6
“4 ”You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Colossians 1:15
” 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”
All I can say is this is the New International Version…..But there seems to be a bit of a discrepancy. Notice that Paul says this.
Again, this is why I can sympathize with Muslims saying that an image of Muhammed (pbuh out of respect) is wrong to make. Because the fact that Christians worship the cross and Jesus himself, seems to go against the 2nd Commandment.
Please don’t take my words in an offensive manner, I only seek truth.
Report Post »mikemackin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:16pmI’m adressing Jarhead. He is implying that the messenger has nothing to do with your salvation. I’m saying it has everything to do with it. If salvation comes from Jesus then shouldn’t one deal with His “messenger”. I’m Catholic. Sola Scripture doesn‘t isn’t logical. The books weren’t written until a hundred years later. At the end of the Gospels it tells us that so much more was written that it couldn’t be contained in books.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:42pmMike; that’s true. That’s the exact reason why we need God chosen and annoited Prophets today to bring us the pure word right from the mouth of God. Christianity is a mixture of truth and man’s “wisdom” That is why there is so much confusion. I don’t blame anyone fro rejecting the confusion of orthodox Christianty.
Report Post »americanfirst
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:12pmJoseph Plumb Martin – as per said survey chances are you don’t even know the Bible too well – so quit making believe you know ANYTHING valid about Mormonism. Truth is if you haven’t checked it out for yourself and hung out with them awhile – chances are you don‘t know squat about what you’re talking about and take advantage of every little negative bit you can google. Given the number of posts you have here – you’re evidently investing WAY TOO MUCH time looking for material to bash Mormons with and too little time representing God well.
Contrarian – get a life too! Quite being so ….contrarian all the time!!
Quit trying to defend something you’re not that good at defending.
You two – GET A LIFE and walk away from your monitors for 30 minutes. You’re grounded! :)
Disagreeing is fine – but try not to be disagreeable and quit monopolizing the forum for yourself. The argument is stale already.
Report Post »rocktruth
Posted on September 29, 2010 at 7:44amIt was not a moral quiz but a quiz of peoples general understanding of different religions.
It’s okay to know what others believe too as long as we have a way to distinguish truth. The bible works the best for that purpose.
Report Post »wingedwolf
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:29amAll sincere paths lead to God. Unless, of course, you’re sincerely a demolibersocialcommunist.
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:07amhere’s the immortal George Carlin on the 10 commandments. a classic bit with much wisdom. enjoy
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzEs2nj7iZM
Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:02amButcher, sarcasm : is it the a true measure of intelliugence and fairness? Carlin IMO has a very filthy mouth.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:23amButcher well played..and may Joe Pesci bless you
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:50pmContrarian, I don’t think anyone is contesting that George Carlin has a filthy mouth. That would be a hard case to make. The fact is, some people just don’t get satire, and that’s unfortunate.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:56pmOne of the best satarists of all time was Benjamin Franklin. He didn’t have to use a filthy mouth. The same with Mark Twain. Carlin could have reached more people if he cleaned up his language. I think he however choose the type of audiences who liked vulgarity.
BTW, I love good satire.
Report Post »Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Czar
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 7:25pmwhy can‘t i just be a conservative who doesn’t believe in a god?
Report Post »stitch
Posted on September 29, 2010 at 1:20amwait a minute, my happy little semi white Pagan self doesn’t agree, i was raised protestant, and having read the bible, can’t accept the hypocrisies that seem to run rampant. Yes, i’m a female consertave republican, but I’m also Pagan, and I will be voting these jagoffs out of office. take that as you will.
Report Post »kierstin1989
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:24amDisturbing. And I fear that I would not do too well either. Time to pick up my Bible…
Report Post »Hugh Williams
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:15amVery few of the questions were about what is in the Bible. I did get all 10 correct and I am from the south and I believe in God.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:43am10 out of 10 and I didn’t even have to use my copy of “The Age of Reason”
Report Post »LordHowardHurts
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:22amSort of on subject; If you read the postings at: http://www.scribd.com/my_document_collections/2640629 You will find something about religion that might be interesting to some.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:00amSeems like you MAY be blowing your own horn?
Report Post »Marylou7
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:22amJust took their quiz just to see how dumb this Bible belt Southern Baptist is on religion. Got 9 out of 10, sorry missed the one about Lutherans. Bible Belt Christians are not stupid. Very few questions were about the actual Bible but rather about other religions. Southerners may not know much about Islam or Buddhism but they do know Jesus.
Report Post »BQI
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:35amAMEN ……..sister
Black Conservative Blog: http://www.blackquillandink.com
Report Post »Jackson
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:49amMaryLou,
Report Post »9 out of 10 too. Missed the Indonesia question. We should do this as a team sport. Glenn Becker’s and Blazers vs CNN, MSNBC, Obama adminstration. Do you think we could take ‘em?
Marylou7
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:57am:) Jackson, in a skinny minute. :)
Report Post »moriarty70
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:29amThe numbers are an average, individual scores obviously vary, and the actual survey was 32 questions, not the 10 put up on CNN. Also, they never said it was a look at how well you know YOUR religion, but religion in general, particularly the rules and history of.
And I can see the practical use of something like this. The more you know about someone the more you are capable of empathizing with them. Same goes for groups of people.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:56amSorry MaryLou,
Report Post »I got 10 for 10, so you’re still 10% dumber than me!
Just teasing you.
ME
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:03amNine out of ten as well, just missed the sabbath question knew it was not Sunday but did not know it started on Friday. I would like to know if these are people that claim to be in a religion or are actually practicing? Obama claims to be a christian but can not give credit to the creator makes you wonder?
Report Post »everythinguknowiswrong
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:35amJackson– if you don’t know that most of the people in Indonesia are muslim, then you are unbelievably ignorant of the political landscape in a very volatile and important part of the world. Of course, you and most people who watch fox news probably can’t even find it on the map. Try to broaden your horizons.
Report Post »ME
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:44ameverythinguknowiswrong
every thing u know is wrong = well knowing that is the first steep just ask and we can help you move on. Thinking you are a intellectual superior there is no help for and you must learn that you know nothing then you can learn, but who am I to lecture you and all your glorious knowledge please bless me with your intellect I am but a desert that thirsts for water open your flood gates and enlighten us all.
Report Post »George1
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:54amThis isn’t just a general overview quiz with a dash of religion. Hardly a study of religious knowledge. What does knowing the dominant religion in Indonesia have to do with knowledge of actual religion? This article really trumped up this quiz inaccurately (as being about religion and some epiphany into the ignorance of Americans regarding their own religion).
Report Post »grandmommie
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:04amI’ll give you a great big AMEN to that!
Report Post »Libertyluvnmomma
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:25amI got the indonesia question wrong too! 9 out of ten though. I don’t pay too much attention to other religions. I pay attention as much as possible to the teaching of Jesus. Even then I’m not perfect. Was there a score for devotion to Christ redeeming me on the cross?
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:46pmAs far as the Indonesia question: many of you would not hesitate to declare yourselves experts on Islam, so I would think knowing that Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country in the world would be part of that.
Report Post »Takkiya
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:20amAdd your comments
Report Post »Indomitus
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:19amGiven that this “study” is flawed on its face, it is not surprising to note how spiritual ignorance mirrors the general ignorance that pervades our spoon-fed society. Why should one study what one believes or why one believes it? Is it not sufficient to believe as one has been told to believe?
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” Buddha
“As regards philosophy in its proper and genuine sense, we find put forward without any hesitation, as an entirely sufficient equivalent for the long course of mental discipline–for that profound and fruitful process through which the human spirit attains to knowledge–the direct revelation of the divine and the healthy common sense of mankind, unconcerned with and undisciplined by any other knowledge or by proper philosophical reflection. These are held to be a good substitute for real philosophy, much in the way that chicory is lauded as a substitute for coffee. It is not a very pleasing spectacle to observe uncultivated ignorance and crudity of mind, with neither form nor taste, without the capacity to concentrate its thoughts on an abstract proposition, still less on a connected statement of such propositions, confidently proclaiming itself to be intellectual freedom and toleration, and even the inspiration of genius.” Hegel
” … but far from liberating somebody, that mode of awareness [meditative awareness] merely cements their ignorance of their embeddedness, an ignorance that allows social and cultural interests—patriarchal, sexist, ethnocentric, androcentric—to ride undetected into the awareness of a meditator even during satori. Satori is therefore just a big cement job on intersubjective ignorance, allowing oppression and marginalization of dialogical realities.” Ken Wilber
“There are in fact four very different stumbling blocks in the way of grasping the truth… the example of weak and unworthy authority, longstanding custom, the feeling of the ignorant crowd, and the hiding of our own ignorance while making a display of our apparent knowledge.”
Roger Bacon
“What is the cause of ignorance? Inappropriate attention. Stupidity arises from corrupt attention.” Nagarjuna, Verses from the Center
“Evil (ignorance) is like a shadow–it has no real substance of its own, it is simply a lack of light. You cannot cause a shadow to disappear by trying to fight it, stomp on it, by railing against it, or any other form of emotional or physical resistance. In order to cause a shadow to disappear, you must shine light on it.”
Report Post »Shakti Gawain
JD Carp
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:32pmWith 100 years of progressives driving God out of America what would one expect.
Report Post »QweeQwa
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:20amIt doesn’t surprise me to see atheist/agnostic at the top of the list.
Report Post »GnomeChomsky
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:07amNor does it surprise me, we actually study and research subjects before coming to a conclusion not just be told the conclusion by someone on tv/radio and accept it as fact and repeat it
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:01amwhy? as an atheist, qweeqwa, i can assure you i and others like me are very well read on the subject. if you’re going to be against something you should know what it is you are against. i’m not surprised by this at all. as penn jillette said, nothing will make you and atheist quicker than reading the damn bible. that goes for all revealed religion as well. cheers
Report Post »longhorn mama
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:39amWell, I am one of those Southern, true believer, bible-belters and I got a perfect score.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:57amI do give credence that atheits to their credit do really study things out. THE PROBLEM IS OFTEN THAT SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE CAN ONLY BE GAINED THOUGH THE SPIRIT. IT’S LIKE EXPECTING TO GET AN ACCURATE MEASUREMENT WITHOUT A GOOD RULER. The methods of learning truth are deficient so athiets will never learn the truth until they humble themselves. Go to the Book of Mormon, Alma 32 to find out how to find out truth.
It did NOT surprise me as a Mormon to see that our people are the most informed of any Christian group. I would actually have expected much higher. THE IRONIC THING IS THAT MORMONS ARE CALLED NONCHRISTIANS BY MANY FUNDAMENTALISTS AND EVANGELICALS. We’ve eben been attacked here on the Blaze.
They claim that we don’t use and undertsand the Bible.
NFYRx
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:00amI am surprised. If I knew there was no god or any truth to religion. I would spend my time studying something useful like automotive repair. Call me crazy.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:21amYeah,seems all that book-learning does pay off
Report Post »abc
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:55pmContrarian, please define “spiritual knowledge.” And tell me how I can differentiate the supposedly legitimate kind (e.g., water into wine, parting the Red Sea, etc.) from the illegitimate kind (e.g., Santa Claus, Salem witchcraft, etc.). Perhaps atheists and agnostics would love to have a loving God controlling the universe, but we just can’t find any good data to support that theory, so we stick with the only kinds of knowledge that has been proven for thousands of years: mathematical truth and empirical information.
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:30pmSome honest thoughtful questions. It is great nto find this here. I will do my best to address your questions or at least part of them
Spiritual Knowledge is in a totally different sphere from secular knowldege. The world of secular knowledge has developed a great approach to gaining truth… the scientific process. A very similar process can be used to gain Spiritual Knowledge. The problem is that I have rarely found anyone who claims to be inteelectually open to try the spritual scientific method. If I am NOT one to use the secular scientific method because of prejudice, do I lose out in terms of knowledge? YES.
The same applies to those who refuse to use the spiritual scientific method.
Just as there is matterr and antimatter, there is a physical world and a spiritual world. In a revelation given to Joesph Smith, he was told that both worlds are made up of matter that cannot be created or destroyed. The matter in the spiritual rhelm was of a much finer form such that both the material world and the spiritual world exist in the same space.
I will stop there. IF you wish to pursue this further, I suggest you contact me at captianmoroni2009@live.com
Report Post »abc
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:47pmContrarian, either the spiritual knowledge and progress impacts the empirically observable world or it doesn’t. If it does, then I should be able to indirectly see its existence and begin to ascertain its impact. If it doesn’t, then no one should care about it until after they leave this world. To the extent that Indian Yogi’s and buddhist monks can enlarge portions of their brain by doing intense spiritual meditations, then this can be measured since it shows up on an MRI. That is spiritual knowledge that makes sense to me. But the Mormon teachings about the spiritual world being firmer than ours cannot be measured and has no measureable impact. So it is analytically the same to a rational scientists as saying that the Easter Bunny exists. That is a huge problem. So while I agree that our minds (the real meaning of spirit) can benefit from certain religious practices and ideas, the extent of that benefit is that which can be measured and whose pros and cons can be determined. Merely asserting magical benefits in a magical place is not good enough and shouldn’t be, unless, of course, it gives you so much more peace of mind, that it helps your mind, your heart, etc. But that might only help you personally. Let me smoke marajuana to calm my nerves and I’ll let you believe in unprovable things to calm yours.
NoName22
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:49pmLet me back up Contrarians post above:
Secular means material: Mathematical and empirical data only explain material things.
For example, some non-believers wonder why some evil doers, like half the people running Washington and Wall St., get to where they are and God lets them. Well first off, God didn’t invent money. Give to Caesar what is Caesar‘s and give to God what is God’s.
Some non-believers wonder why if God exists, why does he let car accidents happen? Well, maybe man was so caught up in inventing something that could get him somewhere quicker, he didn’t think about the unintended consequences. How many times are things invented, that 20 years later, give us continuing and new problems (the internet is a great example with viruses, identity theft.) Pharmaceuticals are another great example, Avandia being restricted more.
Thirdly, if God existed, this is just an example, why did he allow 9/11 to happen? I dunno, but I look at it like this: World Trade Center (money, greed) Pentagon (military, weapons) were hit, but the tower going for Congress (law which comes from God) was taken over by some of the bravest Americans ever. THINK about it.
Again, if you need a sign from God to believe, how can you know what sign that is if you don’t believe in him?
Report Post »abc
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:04pmContrarian, if spiritual means “of the mind,” then there is ample evidence that religious practices can enhance our peace of mind. For example, Indian Yogi’s and Buddhist monks, after years of meditative practice, can enlarge the portions of their brain responsible for serenity. This has been observed on MRI. So this kind of spiritual development is real and should be promoted by religious and non-religious people alike. Similarly, Mormons tend to live longer and be happier than most Americans; and even if part of that comes from believing in things that are empirically wrong or unprovable (e.g., that Jews came to America several thousand years ago, which has been proven false with DNA testing; or that the spiritual world is on “firmer” ground, as you assert), it doesn’t matter to the serenity of their minds. Ignorance can be bliss. The problem is when unprovable or provably false ideas are allowed to hurt progress of science or well-being. Objections to stem cell research and false claims about global warming made by religious people who prefer ideological fantasy to hard, cold facts…these things can hurt us and often do. This is where the tolerance level of atheists and agnostics goes to zero. For just as investors or parents will make risk-averse decisions on the basis of facts rather than ignorant claims, so should we as a society guard against the perils of basing decisions on bad information. And if you cannot prove something with empirical evidence, you cannot show it isn’t bad information. Keeping your religion personal is the best guard against such mischief, but, sadly, I see few scientific people spreading the great benefits of scientific method and intellectual honesty, but I see many devout people spreading scientific falsehoods in the name of their personal religious crusades. Laozi was truly sage when he noted: those that speak don’t know, while those that know don’t speak…
Report Post »abc
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:14pmNoName, I am truly confused. Religious people believe in an omnipotent, loving God. However, this presents logical problems given the existence of evil, as the great Epicurus observed:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?”
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:30pmABC, I wish all nonbeleivers were as couteous as you. We could then a reqal dialogue without any name calling.
You ask about why God would allow evil? That has been a philosophical question that hasn’t been answered until the Retsored Gospel came forth beginning in1820. IF you would like to continue this dialogue, contact me at captainmoroni2009@live.com
Report Post »Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:52pmABC, I really enjoy our dialogues. The problem with your last quote is that a Christian would be violating the Command from Jeus Christ to go an preach/witness to the entire world. Some folks, maybe me (grin) can go overboard I grant.
I do recogbize that some Christians make some unscientific statements like God literally orgainzed the earth in six days. That there is NOT anything such as evolution. I fully accept and Mormon scientists have proven that there is micro evolution. The issue is the validity of macro evolution.
I don’t try to defend much of orthodox teachings. I can only procalim the truths of the Restored Gospel and invite everyone to find out for themselves.
Report Post »NoName22
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:02pmABC, lemme take you back to Genesis, where all the answers are: Genesis 3:1-5
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,
3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”
4 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman.
5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
I’ve read the serpent could be translated as the nervous system of the human body. Think about the head of a snake and how it is one long muscle, similar to the brain with the spinal cord. These verses could be interpreted as the birth of our sentience. The fruit would represent what comes along with it, knowledge of good and evil. Again, we have the knowledge to build cars, which can be good, but look at the accidents, drunk driving, etc. evil that comes with it.
So is being as smart as we are and able to do what we can do with our sentience really something to be proud of? It is and it isn’t. In the Garden of Eden, there were just plants and animals and two people. No plasma tv’s, no football games, nothing wildly entertaining…..but there was peace, rest on all sides.
As for God having the power to protect us from all things evil…..Some people believe Satan is the tempter and to do evil is to allow your soul to be consumed by him. Taking what I just said about the serpent, and you could say man is the devil. That by acting on our desires, which come forth from our knowledge of good and evil, we do it to ourselves. If you believe in free will, then God just can’t drop in and stop you from everything. How could a child grow into a successful adult if his/her parents made sure everything went ok for them?
Again, the main thing that I believe, is that I can only HOPE to know. I only have limited knowledge, true wisdom rests with God alone. Anyone who seeks truth should read it for themselves.
Report Post »moriarty70
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:03pm@Contrarian,
I know I’ve been fairly quite in this post, mostly because I had my say and not much more, and I’m not ABC but would you mind me getting a hold of you as well?
I‘ll admit I’ve not heard about the spiritual scientific method and I’d like to know more. Consider it a lifelong quest to minimize my own ignorance.
Report Post »SeasonOfChange
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 5:36pmWow, this story has rally brought out the diversity!
Refreshing to see that the name-calling has been kept to a minimum too. I think that religion has room for science and vice-versa. I don’t understand why anyone would want to believe that life is it and there is nothing else nor do I understand how anyone can fathom that life just happened but we are sentient beings and capable of coming to our conclusions whatever they may be.
I saw that someone had posed the question about God being omnipotent but allowing evil. You have to understand the purpose of life here. Presuming you believe in God, then life, on earth would need to have some purpose. In this case, the purpose is free agency. The freedom to choose, as a test, to find out if we are true and faithful. In order for there to be choice, there must needs be an opposition. Evil is a fundamental and necessary part of progression. Where is the test if the answers are given to you or worse, forced upon you? Omnipotence exists within the eternal laws and order that exists within all things. Imagine the chaos if all things were subject to the whims of a supreme being. Matter has a way of behaving and honestly, there can’t be two sets of rules, one for God and one for the rest of us. He just has a greater understanding of the laws and that is where the power essentially eminates from.
In short, evil exists so that man may be judged. Without evil, there would be no test and thus no judgement. Evil is permitted to exist and to happen so that those who commit the evils, may be judged according to their actions. Small consolation for the victims who must live with the aftermath.
I find that science comfortably coexists with faith except for when leaps are made to fill in the gaps on either side. God is a God of order, from pre-existence to the after-life, his omnipotence comes from the fact that he made many of the rules and is not hindered by the fact that he must also abide by them.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 5:52pmWoah. Are we really going to let NoName get away with implying that the victims of 9/11 deserved to die because they went to work? Or that Congress was spared because it represents law from God? You guys HATE Congress! Anyway, I know you were just speculating, but that’s an incredibly stupid theory, and it’s insulting. Perhaps you shouldn’t even attempt to explain “God’s plan.”
Report Post »roninshaman
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:33pm@ABC
The reason their is evil is freedom of choice or free will. God created spiritual beings with rights to choose. If we had no choice, we could not truly love God. We would be brainwashed slaves or automatons. God wants to have a willing and loving relationship with his creation.
Report Post »PostProgressiveAmerican
Posted on September 29, 2010 at 5:59am@NFYRX, I did not just wake up one day and realize “I am an atheist.” I actuality spent a lot of time exploring my beliefs and various religions before coming to the conclusion that I am an atheist. So, it is not necessarily that atheists study religions, it is more that we studied religions and became atheists. But also keep in mind that not all atheists are immoral, anti-religious Socialists…I, for one, am none of those things.
(10 for 10)
Report Post »rocktruth
Posted on September 29, 2010 at 7:01amI just took the 15 question quiz and got 14 out 15 right. I scored better than 97% of the public. Big deal.
Most non-denominational bible teaching churches like “Calvary Chapels” would most likely have the highest scores. They are among the smartest people I know regarding biblical Christianity & Apologetics. The way they brought these religious groups together, made this survey biased at least, and deceptive for most. Also, trying to say that Atheist somehow know more than Christian’s about biblical faith is not true.
Take the quiz here: http://features.pewforum.org/quiz/us-religious-knowledge/
Chuck Missler: A teacher for intellectual Christian’s and Atheist.
Report Post »What is truth : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcpVfop6-7c
Holography: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaKS0Egq-1c
Thomas Payne
Posted on September 29, 2010 at 2:24pmTo Moriarty70
Brotherhood of the Snake
OF ALL THE animals revered in ancient human societies, none were as prominent or as important as the snake. The snake was the logo of a group which had become very influential in early human societies of both Hemispheres. That group was a disciplined Brotherhood dedicated to the dissemination of spiritual knowledge and the attainment of spiritual freedom. This Brotherhood of the Snake (also known as the “Brotherhood of the Serpent,” but which I will often refer to as simply the “Brotherhood”) opposed the enslavement of spiritual beings and, according to Egyptian writings, it sought to liberate the human race from Custodial bondage.*
* Because Brotherhood teachings included physical healing through spiritual means, the snake also came to symbolize physical healing. Today the snake is featured on the logo of the American Medical Association.
The Brotherhood also imparted scientific knowledge and encouraged the high aesthetics that existed in many ancient societies. For these and other reasons, the snake had become a venerated symbol to humans and, according to Egyptian and biblical texts, an object of Custodial hatred. When we look to discover who founded the Brotherhood, Mesopotamian texts point right back to that rebellious “God,” Prince Ea. Ancient Mesopotamian tablets relate that Ea and his father, Anu, possessed profound ethical and spiritual knowledge. This was the same knowledge that was later symbolized as trees in the Biblical Adam and Eve story.
In fact, the Biblical tree symbol came from pre-Biblical Mesopotamian works, such as one showing a snake wrapped around the trunk of a tree, identical to later portrayals of the snake in Eden. From the tree in the Mesopotamian depiction hang two pieces of fruit. To the right of the tree is the half-moon symbol of Ea; to the left is the planet symbol of Anu. The drawing indicates that Ea and Anu were associated with the snake and its teachings. This connection is affirmed by other Mesopotamian texts which describe Anu’s palace in the “heavens” as being guarded by a God of the Tree of Truth and a God of the Tree of Life.
In one instance, Ea reportedly sent a human to be educated in that very knowledge:
Adapa [the name of an early man], thou art going
before Anu, the King;
The road to Heaven thou wilt take.
When to Heaven thou has ascended, and hast
approached the gate of Anu, the “Bearer of Life” and
the “Grower of Truth” at the gate of Anu will be
standing.1
We therefore find Ea designated as the reputed culprit who tried to teach early man (Adam) the way to spiritual freedom. This suggests that Ea intended his creation, **** sapiens, to be suited for Earth labor, but at some point he changed his mind about using spiritual enslavement as a means. If Ea was a true historical personality as the Sumerians claimed, then he was the probable leader of the Brotherhood at its founding on Earth. The Brotherhood may have adopted the snake as its logo because Ea’s first home on Earth was said to have been constructed by a serpent-infested swampland which Ea called Snake Marsh. Another possible explanation for the snake logo is offered by Mr. Sitchin who says that the biblical word for “snake” is nahash, which comes from the root word NHSH, meaning “to decipher, to find out.”
Despite all of their reported good intentions, the legendary Ea and early Brotherhood clearly failed to free the human race. Ancient Mesopotamian, Egyptian, and biblical texts relate that the “snake” was quickly defeated by other Custodial factions. The Bible informs us that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was overcome before it was able to complete its mission and give Adam and Eve the “fruit” from the second ”tree.” Ea (who was also symbolized as a snake) was banished to Earth and was extensively villainized by his opponents to ensure that he could never again secure a widespread following among human beings.
excerpt from The Gods of Eden, William Brambley 1993
Report Post »Takkiya
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:19amI’m still looking for an appropriate avatar for here!
Takkiya
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:23amThough, misconception is the Muslim way ;)…….
Report Post »GlennBeckIsADemagogue
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:54amLeave out the word “religion” from the headline, and one only has to read the comments on this website to answer “yes”
iahp_mom
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:43am9 out of 10 here too. I missed the Indonesia question. I wish they had the entire 32 question quiz available.
Report Post »NFYRx
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:47amLOL I don’t believe the bible, koran etc. But, I‘ll believe anyone putting out a poll and telling me it’s legit. Especially if it makes me feel good….wait, now you sound just like…
Report Post »ProgressivesLoveAmerica
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:49amThere have been a lot of cross-cultural studies of what social scientists call “religious fanaticism” – not just people who go to church, but they’re really kind of fanatic about it, it’s the kind of fanatic commitment that permeates your whole life. And what these studies demonstrate is that this is a typical characteristic of pre-industrial societies – in fact it correlates very closely with industrialization: as industrialization goes up, this kind of religious fanaticism goes down.
There are two countries that don’t follow this trend. One of them is Canada, which has more fundamentalist commitment than you would expect given its level of industrialization. The other is the United States, which is totally off the chart: we’re like a shattered peasant society. The United States was at the level of Bangladesh in 1980. It was very close to Iran.
There are two countries that don’t follow this trend. One of them is Canada, which has more fundamentalist commitment than you would expect given its level of industrialization. The other is the United States, which is totally off the chart: we’re like a shattered peasant society. The United States was at the level of Bangladesh in 1980. It was very close to Iran.
80% of Americans literally believe in miracles. 50% believe the earth was created a couple of thosand years ago and that fossils were put here to mislead people or something – HALF the population. You just don’t find things like that in other industrial societies.
Political scientists and others have tried to figure out why this aberration exists. It’s one of the many aspects in which the U.S. is unusual, so you want to see if it’s related to some of the others.
For instance, the U.S. has an unusually weak labor movement. Think: there is no other industrialized Western country that doesn’t have a labor-based political party, and we haven’t had one here since the Populist Party in the 1890s.
So we have a very depoliticized population and that could be one cause of this phenomenon: if social and political life don’t offer you opportunities to form communities and associate yourself with things that are meaningful to you, people look for other ways to do it, and religion’s an obvious one
But the point is, if things ever really come to a crunch in the U.S., this massive part of the population -one third of the adult population- could be the basis for some kind of fascist movement, readily. For example, if the country sinks deeply into a recession, a depoliticized population could very easily be mobilized into thinking it‘s somebody else’s fault.
There have to be bad guys out there doing something for things to be going so badly – and the bad guys can be Jews, homosexuals, blacks, Communists, whatever you pick. If you can whip people into irrational frenzies like that, they can be extremely dangerous: that’s what 1930s fascism came from, and something like that could very easily happen here.
abc
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:52pmProgressives,
Your observations are correct, but your explanation seems lacking. There is little difference between the levels of labor unions power across Europe and the levels of religiosity, so I don’t think you are focused on the right independent variable. What is more likely, according to analysis that I’ve read, is the power of the state in the US versus Western Europe or developed East Asia. First, there is separation of church and state, which limits the official power of religious bodies in government in the US, unlike elsewhere. This means that religious groups don’t need to organize or become politically active to get policies that they want. They merely need to work within the bureaucracy to obtain their share of tax revenue to support their causes. This means less activism is required than in the US. Second, the central state in those other countries sets the curriculum and does so on the basis of rational factors that will support rising living standards and material wealth. Hence, they do not allow children to waste time learning about creation science in their bio class or exaggerated accounts about how Christianity led to the building of America in their history class. Secular humanism, which has won the battle of ideas, is the sole ideology produced in the school systems of those countries. Hence, it is hard to graduate from high school in Germany or Japan believing in angels or fundamentalist Christianity. The inverse correlation between industrialization and religion does hold in most places, as this reflects rising levels of literacy and education; however, the US education is run by very local communities that do not reflect the best and brightest that the industrialized West has achieved. Rather, it reflects a pre-industrialized mind-set of the 1830′s great revival. Or perhaps it reflects a post-post-industrialized reality that higher levels of education and wealth do not provide satisfactory answers, so people prefer to keep their mythologies. As long as those people do not impair continued technological progress, then thy are entitled to it. When they block stem cell research and other efforts in science, then they should be cast out of the technological Eden and be forced to rely on witch doctors rather than MDs, smoke signals rather than cell phones, mules rather than jet aircraft. At least that is how I see it.
Report Post »Independent Tess
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:06pm10 out of 10, hah! (evangelical christian)
Report Post »urik84
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:08pmProgressivesLoveAmerica in your post you make write as if left leaning movements are the norm, and some how if we dont think that way we are in danger of becoming facist. how is the socialist labor movments in the rest of the world any diffrent from facism, and i mean real diffrences. there both just another form of totalitaren rule. both equaly as ugly.
Report Post »“Political scientists and others have tried to figure out why this aberration exists.”
Aberration is a nice way of saying. wow this dosent fit our agenda how do we explain it away.
your byass clouds your logic step back and really look at what your writing
Contrarianthinker
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:37pmProgressive: quite a good post with many valid concerns. Jesus did say you are either for me OR your’re against me. You either serve God or Mammon. These are radical statements aren’t they?
After many dialogues with skeptics and Progressive s, Ive found one thing lacking that is a MUST for gaining knowledge and truth. PRIDE totally in one’s INTELLECT as the source for all truth. Certainly if one accepts that premise and one is logical from there, one arrives at many of the consluisons you and others do. I totally reject that premise.
God gave us very wise counsel when He said PRIDE proceedth the fall. That applies to both asecular and spiritual knowledge.
Report Post »Indomitus
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:50pmProgressivesloveamerica,
Not only is your outdated post-modernism ludicrously prejudicial, summarizing a progressive political interpretation which lacks any understanding aside from reductionist material fundamentalism, your history is wholly inaccurate as to the origins of fascism, which have invariably arisen from the socialist labor movements you champion.
It is not the religious “fanatics”, as you call them, who are in danger of being mobilized into “irrational frenzy”. Rather, it is the labor movement, the anarchists, the communists, the progressives, and all their ilk and kindred who are mobilizing their base, using fear of the pious as their battle cry. The fear-mongering is coming, in large part, from the left. Further, it is not irrational to fear that which has proven itself to be dangerous:
Hitler – Anti-Christian, Socialist, labor (10,000,000 dead)
Report Post »Stalin – Anti-Religion, Socialist, labor (20,000,000 dead)
Mao Zedung – Anti-Religion, Socialist, labor (100,000,000 dead)
Mussolini – Anti-Christian, Nietszchean socialist, opposed “Imperialist” and “Reactionary” regimes in favor of the “working class”.
Franco – Although an exception both in his Catholicism and strict militarism, his regime leveraged its position on an anarchistic/socialist revolution, and itself depended on interventionist contributions from German and Italian socialists, and American progressives.
(190,000-500,000 dead)
donbcg
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:09pmProgressive-
Your lack of understanding is striking. Although I see your point. I mean face we Christians are justa bunch of boneheads with very little education. I mean if we all had college degrees we could so readily see the truth right. I mean my Quaker ancestors went around pulling fingernails from non believers and said the prodestants did it.
Seriously. Your lack of understanding in human nature is what is at stake. Somehow, in the last 30 or so years a few have found a way to disprove the need for the billions of others on the planet to have religion. As if we all are Taliban members. I mean the perplexing thing here is that you actually think that the ideas and I mean ideas of a few so called experts can negate the beliefs of billions. Whether Christian or Muslim or whatever. 99.9999% of human beings believe in a power greater than themselves.
I find almost rude that you should think you are somehow correct. That science can disprove the beliefs of the spirit. You see my friend, religion isn’t physical. It’s meta-physical.
Yes, I would argue that fossils were here before 200 years ago. That they were not placed here by conspiratorial right wingers hell bent on proving God exists.
Genesis is the meta-physical awakening. He said let there be light. And there was light. It was the light of the spirit. Seriously, you need to actually read it or sit down with a biblical scholar.
It is simple once you grasp the the difference between meta-physical and physical. Progressive thought and ideology is based on worship of men and things. And then using those things to exercise mens control on the people they rule. God is self regulation the self preservation. You follow His laws and serve Him. You denounce all other God’s before Him. In return He will judge you kindly in the after life. That is Christianity. Not some pseudo fascist control regiem. Wash the feet of your fellow man, for he is a child of the same God. Not, hey do it die.
The one thing I believe Athiests/Agnostic or Progressives get wrong is that throughout history and in most every story in Bible, the meaning behind the story is that you get with God, you get comfortable, you invalidate God, you fall away from God, society falls apart, and back to the beginning. Each time the human spirit and our desire for something greater than the frailty of man prevail. That’s it. So, regardless of your theories or those of your cited experts we are just in the cycle of faith. Roughly at the society falls apart stage.
I hope you can see one day, and you find God’s grace. It truly will be the best day for the rest of your life. God blees you for trying though.
Report Post »Joseph_Plumb_Martin
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:45pmINDOM,
Some kill in the name of government,some in the name of god.Does it really matter?
60,000,000—-Mongol Conquests
20,000,000—Conquests of Timur
11,500,000—Thirty Years’ War
1,500,000—Armenian Genocide
3,000,000—1971 Bangladesh atrocities
2,000,000—European colonization of the Americas
2,000,000—Crusades
2,000,000—French Wars of Religion
1,000,000—The Vendée
Report Post »donbcg
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:02pmJoseph_Plumb_Martin
No. But both are the convictions of man. Not God.
Report Post »ProgressivesLoveAmerica
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:12pmURIK84 this isn’t about thinking that what you call “left leaning movements” are the norm. The truth is that what you call “left leaning movements” actually happen to serve the interests of the people, rather than concentrated power.
There is a difference between “labor movement” and “socialism.” Please KNOW the difference. As with many conservatives, you seem to call anything you don’t like or anything that makes you uncomfortable “socialism.” Although not always distinct from one another, there IS a difference between socialism & labor movements.
Populist labor movements are the exact opposite of fascism. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum. Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.
Benito Mussolini said, “Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.” Labor movements actively try to fight illegitimate sources of authoritarian power, whether that power is from the government or coming from corporate power.
The aberration refers to religious FANATICISM as opposed to ordinary raligious commitment. By the way, I am a person of faith & I proudly go to church at least once a week. I was making a SOCIOLOGICAL OBSERVATION and analysis. There’s no “agenda” involved. I humbly suggest you abandon the conspiracy theory.
Report Post »Wingedfire
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:22pmThe entire survey and results are on the Pew Forum
Report Post »ProgressivesLoveAmerica
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:25pmCONTRARIANTHINKER, thankyou for the compliment and respectful demeanor. I familiar with what Jesus said about either serving God or Mammon. Did you remember what Mammon is supposed to represent in the Bible? Mammon represents GREED! Greed is good if you happen to be Milton Friedman, the intellectual architect of Reaganomics, which conservatives STILL praise as the ultimate moral & economic model. In terms of Biblical history, I wouldn‘t say Jesus’ statement was that radical. The Bible is full of many commands & examples warning people not to be greedy & to feed the poor, care for the “alien” immigrant, & take care of those less fortunate. However, in modern terms, I’d that statement is QUITE radical! A lot conservatives would simply condemn God as a “socialist,” and never have anything to do with Him again. Don’t you think?
I don’t believe I was being prideful. I was simply providing another perspective on the issue of faith in America. I didn’t call anybody any names, and certainly wasn‘t trying to demean anybody’s intellect. I think back to the Founding Fathers and the progenitors of the Protestant Reformation. These people had something in common: They were immersed in the Elightenment Era philosophical perspective known as Rationalism. Protestant Reformers, the Founding Fathers would be appalled to know how many people read the whole Bible literally & believe the earth is Six Thousand Years old! Jesus is probably appalled right now!
Indeed, all knowledge and wisdom issues forth from God. This is what Sir Isaac Newton and many other scientists throughout history have been driven by: knowing God’s ways through studying science! Unfortunately, this point has been lost by many in the Evangelical community.
Report Post »ProgressivesLoveAmerica
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:35pmINDOMITUS, I don’t believe I was being prejudicial. I’m not a material fundamentalist. I am a person of faith myself. I was speaking of religious fanaticism as opposed to ordinary religious observance, such as going to church once a week. I’m talking about the people who think the earth is sixt thousand years old, the people who believe in a “rapture,” the people who read the WHOLE Bible literally treating it like a foreign policy magazine, and people who constantly think the earth is about to end in five years. Think of Pentecostals, Charismatic Worshipers, Evangelicals, Azusa Street Revivalists, etc.
As for your revision of history, I believe fascism had support mainly from the business community because corporatism was the main tenet of Fascism. Benito Mussolini said it best when he said “Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.” Most scholars generally agree that Fascism is a far RIGHT movement. Basically, as long as business gets their cut of the benefits, they could care less what the government’s policy is on mass genocide & gas chambers.
Labor movements that have not been corrupted by influences from illegitimate authoritarian power are not going to result in any mass genocide.
Report Post »ProgressivesLoveAmerica
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:54pmDONBCG, I am a Christian, so I really wasn’t trying to demean anybody, definitely not other Christians. I don’t lack an understanding of human nature. Did I ever say I was an atheist or agnostic? Absolutely not! I smply provided an observation of current trends in American society & made an analysis of those trends! It’s called sociology.
I know that religion isn’t physical. Unfortunately this point is lost by the very people I was talking about! Evangelicals in this country tend to orient their theological constructs almost totally around the physical world. It is this perversion of the Christian faith that I would personally define as fanaticism. It’s what leads them to think the erath is six thousand years old. I didn’t say I was totally right on anything
I think you and I might agree on matters of faith. Your take on Genesis seems to closely resemble my perspective on it.
I’m pretty sure Progressive values can easily be said to be in synchronicity with religious values, particularly in Christianity, but also in Judaism. Look up Dorothy Day to discover that progressive policy initiatives can be in synchronicity with Christianity. Although Glenn Beck constantly denounces the very idea, you read about the roots of progressivism in the Bible all the time: Clothe the naked, take care of the alien (immigrant), take care of those less fortunate, etc.
I think your problem is ideological: if government does anything it’s bad, it’ll lead to socialism, somebody will bring Vladimir Lenin back to life & we’ll have totalitarian socialism, etc etc etc. It’s a slippery slope to the conspiratorial nonsense.
I totally agree with you on the idea that if a nation falls from from God, they will suffer & if they get back to God they will be rewarded. This is the true meaning of “do unto others what you would have done unto you” because “whatsoever you do to the least of my people you do unto Me.” Unfortunately we’re all tied up in ideological nonsense of small-government-shoot-yourself-in-the-foot politics. If you constantly want to cut benefits for the middle class, cut “entitlements,” and get rid of welfare for the poor, you’re shooting yourself in the foot. What I don’t like about conservatism is that it perverts Christian values & fosters a CONTEMPT for the poor and needy, which then comes back to HAUNT EVERYBODY later on!
Report Post »CedarCityMom
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:04pmEveryone makes Faith so complicated. I was raised Catholic, Influenced & “shown” God by family friends who are Methodise, and am now currently Southern Baptist. I live in “Mormon” country (Southern Utah) and have somewhat studied their religion for understanding the beliefs of the people who are my main neighbors. I have visited a few churches of other (& no denomination) too. I found that we all share a belief in Jesus the Lord of Heaven & Earth & below (by His reserection conquiring death). Our differances come in the form of doctrine & interpitation. No matter the name given to the religion (as long as they’re Christ centered) and teach from the Holy Bible then we’re all brothers & sisters in Christ. For there is only one church in Christ.
As for the Agnositics & Athiests, well 1st let me thank you for your respect of all the personal feelings here on this forum. As for proof of God, that’s between you & the Lord. Your personal exceptance of Him or your refusual of Him. Food for thought of the Literal Bible questions. I do believe the Bible is Literaly Inspired by God Himself. I believe it is the only Guide book needed. I do believe that God created the earth in 6 days & rested on the seventh as said. Now, my food for thought: God’s time is not our time. God was, is, and will be. How can human time be the same as God’s time when He was there at the begining, is here now, and will be there till the end and then some?
And last but not least; I have a very personal relationship with my Lord, however, for those who do not: I’d rather believe in God & be wrong & just die to nothing, then to not believe (and follow) God and be wrong and end up in Hell. Each to their own ways and life. We all live and we all die. The differance is in the after life.
P.S. I got 7 of 10 right. The ones I got wrong were on foriegn religions tha are not Christ based. For those how are Hindu & Muslim &/or other non-Christian religions please forgive my ignorance of such things for I’m not them nor will I ever be.
Report Post »JimConstitution
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:40pmpla, i noticed you dont care for the people that actually worship and love God by the ones you named. i can actually see the venom in your words. your obviously a member of a cult.
1930s? progressives caused that pain by trying to control the economy. it took a very long time to recover financially.
now think about the 1020s. economy went down same as the 30s. the difference was 2 presidents that were conservatives. they told the country that the fed gov. was going to do nothing at all about it, and let the free market work. that recession was much shorter and came back to health in a robust way. it was even called the roaring 20s. home appliances started coming into homes, radios were flying off the shelves. henry ford started making autos the ave. guy could afford.
the hardship of the 30s was different. why? because 2 presents following the first 2 were bleeding heart liberals, that would rather give a fish then tell the people to go to the lake and fish. those difficulties you talked about were not present in the 20s.
religious fanatics, what a joke. your involved a cult in my opinion. who are the ones that see Jesus in a piece of toast, or cheese, potato, worship a man and kiss his hand or ring, pray to and worship the dead, saying a woman that had 8 or 10 children, a virgin, have statues everywhere, build enormous buildings worth multi millions of dollars and the poor you pointed to are not cared for? as long as some priest waves his hands around as they shout at him and wave, he goes his way and they are still poor.(that is if you can find one thats not hiding away with an altar boy).
worshipers that love and worship God with hands raised to you are fanatics. Jesus said, you dont know what you worship, that God was looking for people to worship Him in spirit in and truth, something you find fanatical.
yet how many have a crucifix around their neck and hold to it like a good luck charm and cross theirs hearts when in fear.
many times education by liberals so corrupt students its basically impossible for them to hear the gospel. the gospel is independence and individual freedom rather than a social gospel that can not save from sin. salvation is a one to one knowledge of Jesus, not a tortured man statue of a man on a cross, but a risen savior from death.
and what is progressive obama doing? like the two presidents in the 30s. what good is education if history is ignored? liberal education and teachers that care more about pay and benefits than the children. (except for the ones molesting 15 yr old boys.)
Report Post »Indomitus
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:45pmJPMartin,
In the end it does not matter the cause of the killing, certainly not to the dead, I will grant you. However, my point was to clarify just who or what presents a more immanent danger in our present circumstance. You reached out over a thousand years of war and conquest, with numbers that are far from verifiable due to their antiquity, and included examples that were far from religious in nature – certainly not the Mongols or the Mughals (Timur), for instance – and still could not equal the number killed in a single century, by their own governments, not by conquest, in the name of socialism. I think my point, that marxism/socialism is dangerous, and those who fear it are not irrational to do so, is still well taken.
Report Post »Indomitus
Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:56pmProgressive,
Report Post »My apologies if certain aspects of your arguments indicated a different perspective on your part. However, your belief that corporatism is at the heart of fascism discounts the fact that socialism/fascism works as it does because socialists suborn the corporate mechanism and pervert it by their attempts at social and economic engineering – attempts that invariably fail, ending in famine, poverty, oppression, and mass murder.
Free market capitalism in a self-governed, libertine society works just as life itself does, in a beautiful, self-ordered synergy. Aside from a presumptive mandate to protect its participants from the inevitable few who will abuse their fellows, when you start to muck about with its particulars, you end up killing the goose that lays the golden eggs – bloodily and brutally – every time.
PostProgressiveAmerican
Posted on September 29, 2010 at 6:06amMy opinion (for what it is worth)
I would contend that America’s founding on a firm moral base, religious freedom and reliance on God-given rights is exactly what makes us unique in the world. This foundation has traditionally promoted individual responsibility and self-reliance unseen elsewhere in the world and, as originally conceived, the limited Government lacked the centralized power to dominate the population. Although the foundation has been slowly eroded away, the concepts, the individual bricks, still remain and the foundation is, for the moment, repairable.
I would also contend that the basic tenants of Judeo-Christian philosophies still apply and are, in fact, essential to the survival of the America that we know with all of the Freedoms we enjoy. People and the Government that represents them MUST have a basic philosophical AND MORAL compass to guide them or they will lose direction…”stand for something or you will fall for anything” comes to mind. Our diverse religious base, individual freedoms and inherent distrust of government do make us unique.
True, there are issues related to personal belief systems which cause conflict between science and religion, but I have viewed these conflicts as a benefit to both sides. Religion must review the science, as applied to the belief system, which forces a certain introspection and evaluation of those beliefs; science must go beyond the facts and the experiments and view the issues and findings from a moral perspective which is typically lacking in science. When open and honest discussions are allowed, both sides benefit. The religious nature of our society should not be viewed as a bane to our advancement (notice I choose not to use ‘progress’), it should be celebrated for the social and political guidance it can provide.
Also true, religious zealotry (like Islam…although I would argue Islam is a political and social ideology wrapped in a shroud of religion) can lead to nasty events, but in modern societies these are the exception, not the norm. It is when an atheistic or quasi-religious government co-opts or abolishes religion that the really horrific things happen (reference communism: 100,000,000 killed and counting); without a moral compass, anything goes. And before anyone points out that religion has been used to justify slavery and bigotry, please remember that science has been, too.
And that brings us to the real issue: Socialism. This political ideology is completely contrary to everything for which America stands. Socialism co-opts religion and God-given rights, replacing them with the government itself and rights created and handed out to the masses by its good graces; what the government gives, the government can (and does) take away. It replaces morality and individualism with the good of the collective, removing individual responsibility. It eliminates individual rewards for initiative and innovation, destroying productivity and self-worth; no rewards for initiative and no penalty for sloth. I would also contend that the basic philosophy of Socialism (“from each according to his ability to each according to his need”) leads to societal stagnation since there are no great successes or failures and is, therefore, an impediment to the advancement of humanity.
Regarding Unions, I agree that they did serve a purpose and improved the working conditions for many Americans, but I would argue that they have become counter-productive and have outlived their usefulness. The Unions have been co-opted by ‘bosses’ who are criminals, Socialists, Marxist and Communists and are NOT interested in the plight of the workers; instead, they (the bosses, not the rank-and-file members who are merely pawns for the bosses) are anti-business, anti-free market. The Unions have devolved into nothing more than anti-American political organizations. Union dues are used to pay high salaries to the bosses who promote and lobby Congress for laws and policies that will actually hurt the workers, destroying the job base in this country. Further, I contend that Unions are, if fact, a monopoly on labor and the anti-trust laws should be applied. We can have ‘collective bargaining’ between employer and employees at the local level, but we do not need state-wide, national or international organizations to do so, and we must NOT allow compulsory Union membership to work anywhere (that is an individual decision). We must return the workplace to the free market system.
Report Post »donbcg
Posted on September 29, 2010 at 9:14amProgressive-
You are very bright and also very in tune with your belief. Obviously you have studied many hours coming to your conclusions. But, I want to point some very interesting people to you. Ones who founded much of the modern progressive agenda.
Margeret Sanger – Planned Parenthood and mother of Eugenics.
Helen Keller – Devout Socialist
Woodrow Wilson – Marxist/Socialist Seperatist
I could go on and on. But here is the common thread.
Progressives believe that the people are simply pawns. We cannot rule ourselves. We cannot be trusted to make decisions that are sound. We are incapable of leading our own lives.
The progressive believes that since we cannot function independently in our own best interest, they have been charged by a higher entity to place controls on the people. First they are nice, then they lose patience and force us into it.
Progressivism is not a people’s movement. It’s a dictatorship. The people, you included are not part of the equation accept in form. You provide the means by which they can perform their actions. Simply another form of Democratic Socialism.
You can call it what you will. You say that the faith and progressivism can live and breathe joined at the hip. But, at some point the tides will turn. Man is inherantly flawed. The power they will have over you is astronomical. In the end you will be laid to rest in the ashes of the same grave I will lay. I am the enemy, you are simply the tool.
No matter what you call it, this evil is never going to be perfected. Regardless of how you change the game. Socialism ends in death everytime. Millions have died because some people believe they can build the perfect society. I get it. It all sounds good. I mean it’s heaven on earth right.
But, please ask yourself these questions. Who on earth is so perfect, so immune to the flaws of man, so removed from his sin that he or she could have dominion over you? Your brother? Your sister? Your children? You mother? Your fathe? Your grandchildren? Who could you trust to hold back temptation of power, of money, of all the things you say progreesives lack?
That is why instead of socialism, our founders chose God to hold dominion over us. They knew as long as God was the power, the people could rule themselves. No guns required.
Man is flawed. I will take my chances with God and self rule over any one man or woman. No amount of goodwill on man’s part can hold back the drug of power. It works for a short while. But, in the end it’s always the same. Death and despair.
Report Post »Appaulled
Posted on September 29, 2010 at 5:41pmTakkiya, am I the only one laughing like an idiot to you ‘avatar’?
Report Post »Humor is (one) of the best medicines!
delbert
Posted on October 3, 2010 at 11:36amAdd your comments
Report Post »delbert
Posted on October 3, 2010 at 11:43amDon’t you people know , we are what’s left of the tribe of Mannasseh- the son of Joseph?
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