Are Working-Class Americans Abandoning Church?
- Posted on August 23, 2011 at 12:53pm by
Billy Hallowell
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There are theories that say the more educated an individual is, the less likely he or she is to embrace faith and to attend church regularly. But new research seems to indicate that working-class Americans who do not have a college degree are abandoning church faster than their more educated counterparts.
Now, it should be noted that overall church attendance rates have remained relatively steady over the past three or four decades. A 2010 study reaffirms this notion, though it indicates that there have been extreme changes in the makeup of congregations during this time. In considering these changes, one wonders how subgroups divided by race, income bracket and geography have changed in their allegiance to faith and their church attendance.
A new study released by the American Sociological Association has found that Americans who have only a high school diploma are dropping out of church faster than those who are more educated. According to LiveScience.com, in the 1970s, half of white Americans with a high school diploma attended church services at least monthly. Now, this proportion has dropped to just 37 percent.
Here’s the irony: 46 percent of Highly-educated, white Americans attend church now. In the end, among non-educated Americans there has been a 13 to 15 percent drop in attendance, compared to only a five percent drop among the highly educated.
This seems to challenge the contention that the more educated you are, the more likely you are to abandon or simply not embrace religion. The Huffington Post has more:
According to the study, in the 1970s, 51 percent of college-educated whites attended religious services monthly or more, compared to 50 percent of moderately educated whites and 38 percent of the least educated whites. In the 2000s, 46 percent of college-educated whites attended on at least a monthly basis, compared to 37 percent of moderately educated whites and 23 percent of the least educated. The study defines the “least educated” as people without high school degrees.
Thus, there seems to be what the study’s researcher W. Bradford Wilcox calls “a retreat from religion” in middle America. Of course, there may be some societal patterns impacting this trend. LiveScience.com writes:
The decline in church attendance among the non-college-educated matches a decline in stable work opportunities and in marriage among the working class, Wilcox said. All three factors interact with one another: Churchgoers are more likely to get married in the first place. Less stable employment might mean you don’t make the leap into marriage, and the unmarried are less likely to attend church. Lack of a steady job might also cause people to shy away from a church community, Wilcox said.
While some will welcome this change (especially non-believers), Wilcox has some concerns. He believes that churches have traditionally served as support systems in times of need. Without this assistance, those individuals who make up middle America may face tough challenges without the safety nets they once enjoyed.
In the end, Americans who make a higher income attend church more frequently and those who have been unemployed any time during the past decade do so less frequently. There are other intriguing patterns as well. It seems the stereotypes regarding the factors that dictate church attendance are not as valid as previously assumed.
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Comments (272)
czuercher
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:35pmIt‘s not about denominations anymore it’s about the body of Christ. The body right now is restoring itself. In the past, denominations put up walls and closed doors and each thought they were the true church. But what we did was close doors on the eye, the hand, the leg, the ear thereby distorting the Body of Christ and cutting off parts of the body. We need to tear walls of denominations and open doors to become a city-wide; nation-wide and worldwide Body of Christ. Yes we have an individual relationship with Jesus Christ but don’t forget the first two and greatest commandments: to Love God and Love people.
Report Post »Itchee Dryback
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:00pm….A new study released by the American Sociological Association …
___________________________________________________________
Well that settles it…might as well pick up some atheist work books.
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:02pmReal Christians do not need Churches to control what we believe – we know what we believe already.
Report Post »Every brick and mortar church contains a cult. Stay out and remain faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ. It is also less expensive and less time consuming if we pray at home. And it saves gas.
becker88
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:30pmWith how things are going do you blame them?
http://politicalbowl.com – Political Videos
Report Post »jkendal
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 3:40pmIf anything, MORE people are turning to God – now more than ever. Destruction of the country’s economy by stupid leftists will have that affect…..
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 4:19pmSleazy Hippo
*Real Christians do not need Churches to control what we believe*
Hippo, I would not be as disciplined as you seem to be. I would be eating, watching tv and not worshiping on a regular basis at home. Then the children would not learn that a Church is a place for fellowship too and soon they would be doing everything but learning the word of God. Maybe you could be holding on to your beliefs but the Children needs you to take them to Church. With all the violence going on that shows a lot of people have not been brought up right or following the wrong crowds. Children need good examples please be one. God be with you, my friend.
This_Individual
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 5:36pmSleazy, well put. That is the same devotion I have toward my Gods.
Report Post »Ddrummer68
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 5:50pmGreat post! You summed that up really well – particulary the two most important commandments. I smiled, just reading it. Thanks.
Report Post »Ready2Rumble
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 6:41pmI think Dietrich Bonhoffer might have a thing or two to say about this trend. My suggestions would be:
1) Quit harping about money. If God wants a church to have something, He will provide it.
Report Post »2) Start preaching the word of God and stop the progressive crap.
3) Perhaps try treating all members of the congregation equally – rich, poor, new, & old are all equal in the eyes of God.
Wyatt's Torch
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 8:00pm@sleazy hippo…I read of a fellow stopping his attendance at Church. The minister eventually came to his home having noticed the nonattendance.. Both knew each other. Both knew what was going to be said. “Where ya been?”
But the pastor was silent. He entered the home and both men sat silently by the fireplace. Eventually, the pastor got up, took the tongs and thrashed the fire around.
He chose a glowing coal and pulled it out of the fire center, and placed it on the outside of the sparking-ember-catching-grate on a concrete corner. He sat down, silent again.
Both men watched as the glowing coal slowly died.
The pastor reversed the process and used the tongues of fire paraphenalia to lift the dead coal onto the fire center again. Immediately, the lifeless coal began to glow and soon turned orange red with heat and light.
The man who long ago began to skip church finally spoke.
Report Post »“That was the finest sermon you have ever preached pastor. See you Sunday!”
Wyatt's Torch
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 8:01pm@ sleezy hippo…I read of a fellow stopping his attendance at Church. The minister eventually came to his home having noticed the nonattendance.. Both knew each other. Both knew what was going to be said. “Where ya been?”
But the pastor was silent. He entered the home and both men sat silently by the fireplace. Eventually, the pastor got up, took the tongs and thrashed the fire around.
He chose a glowing coal and pulled it out of the fire center, and placed it on the outside of the sparking-ember-catching-grate on a concrete corner. He sat down, silent again.
Both men watched as the glowing coal slowly died.
The pastor reversed the process and used the tongues of fire paraphenalia to lift the dead coal onto the fire center again. Immediately, the lifeless coal began to glow and soon turned orange red with heat and light.
The man who long ago began to skip church finally spoke.
Report Post »“That was the finest sermon you have ever preached pastor. See you Sunday!”
poverty.sucks
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 8:15pmMore and more people leave the traditional work place and become self employed. There’s no requirement that we must attend a church or work for someone else.
If you havn’t a clue, get your ass to church.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 9:03pmYo sleazy;
Report Post »I’m sorry I mean no offence…Stay at home? Where do you read that in the bible?
Help me out here…. if you can prove me wrong I’ll ship you a sleazy rino or animal of your choice.
Shipping costs are on me!!!
the hawk
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 9:35pmChrist said the Kingdon of GOD can Not be found in any building of wood or stone , THE KINGDON OF GOD IS WITH’IN YOU ! Sounds like theres a lot of followers out there..Seek thy own SALVATION!
Report Post ».
4truth2all
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 9:53pmYo Hawk:
Report Post »Are you suggesting that the attending of church is not desired of God?
Cservice
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 10:24pmAmen CZ, Paul from Tarsus agrees with you. Also Christians I believe do need church to strengthen one another and the body of Christ. As a Christian I look for ways to strengthen the faith not dimish it with ISM’s, and I believe the only way we can do that is to put Christ first and focus on him, if we are all looking at Christ then we don’t have time to look at each other.
Report Post »the hawk
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 10:36pmNo I am Not ! I think Christians benefit from friendships with other Christain families, Kids having friends with like minded beliefs ! For Sure ! Just that it Is possable to be Very Christian and not a member of a congregation! Just to many people just go through the movements,never to really study much less ever question whats being preached from the pulpit ! ( like Social Justice for examp. with no mention of the Free will part. And helping your Neighbor as a blessing, not a law !)
Report Post »seek thy own Salvation……In my personal belifs if your pro choice you cant be a Christian! I think the Two examples I stated above are some reasons people are confused and sitting it out ! God Bless !
Gorillabeatz
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 11:46pmSo good, so true, so on the money. Also this article used church in the wrong context considering that the word “church” is never referred to a building in the Bible.
Report Post »Grace1798
Posted on August 24, 2011 at 7:30amYou hit the Nail on the head! Thank you for your post…so true.
Report Post »Johnny C
Posted on August 24, 2011 at 8:28amIn Four years time the church that I attend has grown from 80 members to over 4,000 members, with close to 8,000 at Christmas and Easter services. People are craving the word of God, they just need a church home where they feel comfortable. We have a motto, we don’t care what you wear to church, just wear something. You may not think so but you do NEED church.
Report Post »J-Law
Posted on August 24, 2011 at 8:55amSleaze: I wish the Bible had addressed this specifically. Oh wait….
Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another–and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
Hebrews 10:25 – New International Version (©1984)
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on August 24, 2011 at 9:54amYo J-Law:
Report Post »Thankyou… I try not to do repeat to much scripture here, maybe I should use more to verify what I say. There are many,many verses that would apply to our going to church… NO, going to church does not save you people, however it is what is asked of God if you are saved. So, if the Holy Spirit is indeed in your heart, then your heart should be inclining you to attend a God fearing , bible preaching church. The bible is clear on this issue.
Jamestownrd
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 8:00amJESUS told true believers..,“come out of her”….95% of churches teach ..pre tribulation rapture..pre trib is a lie ..and cowards are afraid of Gods truth!
Report Post »Jamestownrd
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 8:24amEvery single false teaching church is now a 501C3..can you already deceived Christians figure that out on satisfyn ?..satisfy the government by not teaching how evil the big government truly is…Go to hell Butcher!
Report Post »GingerB
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 3:43pmI have read a huge majority of all the posts here and have heard no one speak of our Freedom of Religion…… As Americans, we have been a blessed nation to have our Freedom of Religion, it is almost unheard of in other nations. Some nations persecute their citizens if they do not follow the state accepted religion. WE HAVE BEEN BLESSED BY GOD, AMERICA. I pray that you do not take this freedom so lightly, it was won by the blood of our forefathers…. I would recommend that you find a Bible based church, bring your family, especially your children, so they may learn and appreciate their Judeo-Christian Heritage….. BYW, in my area there are two cathedrals that have standing room only at all masses… It is wonderful to see… God Bless Each of You.
Report Post »mharris2012
Posted on August 26, 2011 at 5:58pmyes I agree its not about demoniations its about a realtionship with christ weve gotten away from that. Our model now is if it makes you feel good do it look at the so called reality shows people let there children look at.And the liberal press make it no better with there sorry reporting.If it wasnt for FOX news I wouldnt hear any news at all. I live in CA where the media think there stars.ITS about CHRIST and GOD BLESS ISRAEL.
Report Post »conservative_teacher
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:34pm“god” I hope so.
Report Post »Spyder
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:43pmObvious troll is obvious /b/
Report Post »conservative_teacher
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:21pmOh Spyder, did you learn a new online term and just can’t get enough of it? Why is it with the religious right that anyone with a dissenting opinion/comment is a troll? Get a grip.
Report Post »platitude
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 3:18pmouch! the teacher just got schooled!
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 3:18pmhow about brain-dead liberal atheist? its such an apt description….
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on August 28, 2011 at 10:33pmHow did Conservative_Teacher get “schooled” as a “brain-dead liberal atheist”? Just more conclusions without evidence from soft skinned religious zealots. Just keep stereotyping and alienating yourselves…
Report Post »Steel Awesome
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:33pmBeck has warned that the Communists are, and have been, infiltrating churches with their beliefs. Man-made global warming is one such belief which is perpetuated by a lot of churches. The other big item is illegal immigration which is pushed by a lot of churches.
Report Post »beckisnuts
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:12pmYes. The communists actually have camps where these infiltrators are trained from a very young age to sneak into churches and go through all the motions to appear to be believers. Then when they are leaving, they tempt the pastors to become communists by offering them dishes of cooked cabbage and beans and giving them woolen mittens and scarves. It’s a very effective ploy, but it doesn’t fool people with razor sharp minds and tin foil hats, like Glenn Beck.
Report Post »Exrepublisheep
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:54pmI see why the price of tinfoil has been going up.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 3:18pmAhh so it is the churches that are spreading the global warming hoax. Perhaps they are powering their pipe organs with CO2 and just trying to divert attention to their contribution. Well certainly GB got one thing right in that churches are our pillars of hypocrisy. As far as illegal immigrants I think it might be a numbers game by the Catholic church….
Report Post »Jack of Hearts
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 3:36pm“illegal immigration which is pushed by a lot of churches”. You mean churches are actually advertising illegal immigration? OK, I see a way we can stop this – let us know where the ads appear. Now, if only we can prove that CO2 doesn’t warm the atmosphere we can fix the commies as well.
Report Post »Spqr1
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 4:23pm“Communists infiltrating churches…” Statements like this is why thinking people consider Beck delusional…
Report Post »Spqr1
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 4:25pmRight up there with fluoride in the drinking water being a communist mind control plot. Same insanity, different generation. And you all will be laughed at by History just the same….
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 11:11pmI‘m Catholic and I’ve had priests speak in support of illegal immigration.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 11:12pmI had a priest in my church express support for illegal immigration.
Report Post »Oldtimer2
Posted on August 24, 2011 at 12:04amsteel awesome is correct. The program is called the Green Shepard project. It’s one of spooky dudes faith based projects. Look it up. The progressives have also come out with the Green Letter Bible as opposed to the Red Letter Bible which has the words of Christ in red. The Green Letter Bible has all the environmentally useful passages in Green. It has a forward with reviews by all the global warming and social justice crowd like McLaren and Al Gore and it comes complete with an organic linen cover. The good news isn’t that Jesus saves,…according to this green version, the “good news” is that God is green. Geeeze!!
Report Post »veruca salt
Posted on August 24, 2011 at 6:01amFirst our churches, and then, our precious bodily fluids
Report Post »Jamestownrd
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 8:28amThe shortest book of The Bible ..The book ofJude…“certain men crept in unawares”..into the pulpit
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:32pmThat goes to show that all educated aren’t necessarily smart. Example is how are economy is going. I am proud to go to church and the fellowship means so much to me. You may have got involved with a church that wasn‘t up to high standard but that doesn’t mean you should give up just keeping trying a different churches until you find one that is truly God like. As we go through life we find that we do need God to get us through problems, illnesses, loneliness, grief or whatever passes our way. Keep smiling and laughing. Good is better then evil and a lot less stressful. God Bless America and all of you.
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:32pmReal Christians do not need to affiliate with organized religion.
Report Post »We know what to believe already.
We are 100% righteous and will not be told what to do by some formally educated pastor or smarty pants priest or hairy rabbi.
We don’t need to share bread, see graven images and pray to beads.
We don’t need to bicycle around NYC for a year to feel like missionaries.
PatriotDaze
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:59pmReal Christians. 100% righteous. All SELF proclaimed.
Report Post »Now that right there was funny.
Itchee Dryback
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:08pmSleazy Hippo
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:32pm
__________________________________________________
As a true Scotsman…I mean Christian..how do express your “real” version of being a Christian?
Report Post »This_Individual
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 5:52pmITCHEE – Does devotion to your God really hinge on congregating at a communal place of worship and increasing “the flock”?
Report Post »4merhipie
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 5:57pmIf you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, (which I do), the Bible says to not forsake the assembling of yourself with others.(Hebrews 10:24-25) It encourages you in the Lord, to meet with others that share your faith. You also learn and grow when you expose yourself to other Christians. I believe its very important to meet with other believers. No, it does not save you to go to church. Only faith in the Lord Jesus saves you. PERIOD
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 7:13pmNow you see how Satan is dividing us? You all fell right into step with him. SHAME ON ALL OF YOU.
Report Post »Where is your humility?
grace by faith
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 8:53pmSleazy Hippo, Your statements are 100% INCORRECT! There is absolutely no doctrine that supports your statements on your “special view” of Christianity. We are not 100% righteous, we are wretched! Jesus didn’t come die for “righteous” people. It’s His righteousness that allows us to even know God. Please stop misleading people. That’s the problem today is people are trying to confirm the Creator into something that works for them instead of understanding they are the one who was Created. God‘s Word hasn’t changed, we just try to change it to fit us. This is a perfect example.
Report Post »Homeschoolmama
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 6:25amThe Bible tells us that if we have a Church near enough to attend that is following the example set by the apostles in the New Testament then we are to assemble with that Church and not forsake it. However, if there is no true church near enough to attend we are still to join together and worship God on the first day of the week. My family has been unable to find a true church nearby but we hold service in our homes every Sunday. The Church is not there to brain wash you. Read your Bible and attend a Church that follows it. Any other organization calling itself a church, but not following the New Testament is a false church. Don’t forsake the Church or blame it because of the sins of men in false organizations calling themselves the church.
Report Post »sle
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:31pmsome of us are sick and tired of churches (and politicians) paying for and dragging in every foreign person and criminals that end up on the welfare, social security, and medical. try TAKING CARE OF OUR OWN FOR A CHANGE!
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:49pmWouldn’t that be grand, make America the greatest nation in the world again, clean it up, then clean up the world.
Report Post »Utahcatholic
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 6:37pmDitto
Report Post »scrapadapolis
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:31pmWhy would I give my time to any one god when so many belive that the catholic church is corrupt as the pediphile preist the protect..I choose agnostic I belive in more than what is told.
Report Post »Attention2Detail
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:29pmFolks, There are many good churches that teach and live the Bible. Find one and go. I agree, stay away from the liberal feel good social gospel churches, but don‘t use them as an excuse to stay home and pretend that you’re a good Christian, when you’re really doing the same thing these phoney churches are doing. Anyone who uses the Bible to back up their views rather than adopting Biblical views as their own is a hypocrite. That’s right, I said ANYONE and that might mean you.
Report Post »nephewofdboone
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:27pmI would guess that any church that pushes social justice would be losing the middle class worker, who’s being demonized in the process. I‘d quit hanging out with anyone who wishes me to be robbed by those who believe they’re entitled to take my possessions because they want them.
Report Post »paulusmaximus
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:25pmThis survey seems in it self to be jaded if once a month is considered faithful attendance. Fifty years ago the most liberal thinking would have concluded ever Sunday those of faith would be in some religious service. I am afraid that the truth is rich or poor, even just comfortable it is as Jesus said of the religious of his day: “They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.”
Report Post »abbygirl1994
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:25pmWe give 10% of our earnings every month to our church, we also pay a Fast offering to feed the poor. In our church we know where the money goes.. and they do exactly what they say they will do with it. Our money does not go to pay any pastor.. it goes to build up the Kingdom of God! Our church leaders are not paid they give of their selves freely!
Report Post »twofoot_trucker
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:24pmStepping away from the religion part of the story for a moment, I am sick of hearing “working class” used to seperate people that do physical jobs versus people that do mental jobs. If you get up and go to work in the morning, you ARE the “working class”. No matter if that job is as an auto mechanic, a truck driver, or an executive.
There are two classes of people in this country, the productive class (working), and the leeches.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:31pmdead bang on
Report Post »Spyder
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:34pmGood catch!
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:45pmAnd organized religion, like Ayn Rand teaches us, is pro-Leech.
Report Post »Itchee Dryback
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:04pmSleazy Hippo
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:45pm
And organized religion, like Ayn Rand teaches us, is pro-Leech.
______________________________________________________
Explain it in your own words please…because I don’t think you can and are simply tossing.
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 3:05pmITCHEE DRYBACK:
Glenn rightly teaches us it is best to do our own homework, so i insist you try to refudiate my words, which are inspired by my extreme belief. Your amateurish trick will not work in Glenn’s house.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 9:50pmYo hippo:
Report Post »Correction > refudiate… is not a word.
Refute would have been sufficient. I’m not mocking… had to double check the spelling of sufficient. I only used one f. At any rate to refute you is quite easy as long as we play by the same rules.You make mention of doing your homework…. well your homework assignment IS reading the bible. There was a group of people mentioned in Acts 17:11 called the BEREANS. When they listened to someone speak they would go and check out there own books to make sure what was said was true. So it has become a statement to “BE A BEREAN” when we encourage one another to make sure we are believing the correct teaching. It does not sound to me like you are “being a Berean”, based on the comments I have read from you…. You have just been refudiated…. it’s OK, humility is in the bible, but don’t believe me….be…………………….!
PatriotDaze
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:24pmMany churches concerned more with telling their members what to think…instead of what to believe….drive people away.
Report Post »DonnaA
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:20pmI feel the church doctrines, creeds, idols, etc. are wrong. If churches taught the Bible then they would be true churches. I give my tithing to those in need. It doesn’t have to go to a church.
Report Post »Yaakov
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:32pmNicely stated. But, your not done, unless you care not for your soul. I suggest that if you start reading Genesis 1:1, then read all the way to the end of Deuteronomy you will find some truth, Laws, means to test and then to know the truth. IF you just follow anyone’s directions without mind and heart deciding, you have given your soul’s future over to them. Only you can damage your soul. Only one G-D can clean it for you, and NO DEATH was or is required, only to return with all of your heart and all of your soul. This is stated through out the Prophets of Israel in HIS NAME.
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 7:04pm@YAAKOV – don’t be afraid to spell the word GOD. It’s just a word. You won’t get struck by lightning.
Report Post »Yaakov
Posted on August 24, 2011 at 2:41amholy ghostbuster, It maybe, to your mind, that lowering a word used as a representation of The One and Only G-D, the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, The G-D of Abraham, The G-D of Isaac, The G-D of Jacob, to a common everyday usage for everything man has ever worshiped being o.k., that would be between HIM and Your Soul. For me, I will strive to keep the elevation for the NAME OF MY G-D, just to show respect to HIM.
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on August 24, 2011 at 4:21pmYaakov,
What is the NAME of your God?
The word “God” is not a name, it is the title of the One True God and Creator of us all.
Obama is a name but his title is “president” , president Obama. “God” is the title of,,, who?
Come on, I know you know the answer.
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on August 24, 2011 at 4:41pmIs it wrong to withhold spelling out my title?
My title is “Man” but my name is bearfoot. ;-)
So would you refer to my title as M-n? Or how about spelling my name as B——t?
Report Post »Would that show respect towards me or would I be aggravated at your insensibility?
Bearfoot
Posted on August 24, 2011 at 4:53pmExodus 6:2 – And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:
3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.- KJV
Exodus 6:2 – And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am Jehovah:
3 and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty; but by my name Jehovah I was not known to them. – ASV
Exodus 6:2 – And God went on to speak to Moses and to say to him: “I am Jehovah. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them. – NWT
If the True God wants us to know and use His Name (YHWH), then why are you refusing to do so?
Report Post »Yaakov
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 2:04pmHurry Bearfoot, you seem to have knowledge, from the xtian perspective, maybe even a Jehovah’s Witness. You seem to have missed Exodus 3:15 “And God said moreover unto Moses: ‘Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations.” In fact Exodus 3 is a great bit of information about G-D.
Save for this last verse, G-D has been known by many names, all of which are descriptions of human perceptions of G-D. Even “I Am, that I Am” is not understandable from the original Hebrew text. The name you listed Je- is never pronounced. The reason I act as I do is: Exodus 20:6 “Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.” I believe that in anyway I might damage the name of G-D, it would not be good for my soul. You must worry about your soul.
You can check out what I have know to be true at http://truthintorah.blogspot.com. Shalom
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 2:47pmY-F
Exodus 20:7 – “You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah will not leave the one unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way.
The True God gave Moses and the Israelites knowledge of who He was and is, including His NAME.
If God did not want them to know and use His NAME, represented by the Hebrew letters YHWH, then why give them His name in the first place?
Taking God’s name in vain does not mean using His name in a respectful, worshipful way. Look, I realize you being a Jew requires you to take your tradition seriously but others look at your refusal to spell out the word “GOD” as unreasonable and inappropriate. Thanks to Jewish traditions, the actual pronunciation of God’s name has been lost due to the Jews tradition of not using it. So, now we can only estimate the correct pronunciation and the most widely accepted is now Jehovah or Yahweh.
Someday God’s Name will be correctly used in all the earth. It is God’s will. – Isaiah 42:8-9
Report Post »YellowFin
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 2:55pmOh, oh,
Report Post »Yaakov spelled out God’s name in his first sentence replying to bearfoot. Now what?
Yaakov
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 3:05pmBearfoot, I take the Writings of Moses, given by G-D as the Law with explanations of what is expected of me. Tradition plays little in my worship of G-D, I even find that traditions get in the way of finding G-D. Isaiah 29:13 “And the Lord said: Forasmuch as this people draw near, and with their mouth and with their lips do honour Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear of Me is a commandment of men learned by rote;”
I find that a dying father’s words to his son, from his death bed say it very well. 1 Kings 2:2) ‘I go the way of all the earth; be thou strong therefore, and show thyself a man; 3) and keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in His ways, to keep His statutes, and His commandments, and His ordinances, and His testimonies, according to that which is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself; 4) that the LORD may establish His word which He spoke concerning me, saying: If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before Me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee, said He, a man on the throne of Israel.” These are the words of King David to King Solomon. It seems they are both evidence of the truth of the words. -Shalom
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 3:19pmYaakov,
All right my friend, thank you for your dignified comments, I think we understand each other.
Report Post »Peace be with you.
Yaakov
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 3:35pmYellowfin, Come on –keep up, the item you hold in question is a quote from the JPS 1917 version of the Tanach(old testament) and the Torah(Writings of Moses- first five books of the old testament). It is therefor not my use of that name.
Report Post »Spyder
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:20pmI wonder if this started once a large portion of the churches really started to embrace “Social Justice?” I believe in God, but I have not stepped foot into a church for years because the message is no longer a message of the personal relationship between God and I. It is now all about the community, which to me means it is a form of the ‘Tower of Babel.’ I am unique; as God intended. And I prefer to be a stone; not a brick.
Report Post »Spyder
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:36pmChurches should hold firm to the message of God; not conform to the people to keep up attendance.
Report Post »Yaakov
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:27pmGreetings Spyder, you are correct, I have seen not even one church or religion or one person that can stand between me and G-D, when I am judged. I have not found any religion that the G-D of Abraham, G-D of Isaac, G-D of Jacob endorses. NOT ONE. However, Self Study is required to know the LAW and what G-D requires from you and everyone of us. In the writings of Moses(Genesis 1:1 through Deuteronomy 34:12) you can find out who G-D is, how many there are, exactly what is expected of you and the evidence with which to test for the truth. You should go to a group of seekers(religious service) if only to live the example of what you know to be true. It will strengthen you and you may find others that know G-D also. Shalom
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 9:09pm@spyder
“Love thy neighbor as thyself”
“don’t covet thy neighbors goods”
——————
Think on these things and then get back to us.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:14pmThe churches need to wake up, who wants to attend and give to a church that spends 95% of the money that comes in on staff and mission work in 3rd world nations, while our nation spirals into a black hole of moral decay, while the church do nothing?
Report Post »thenannerpus
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:22pmAre you referring to a specific church or all churches? And where did you come up with that number? Seems like blanket statement with no real facts…
We are commanded to go forth and preach to all nations, not just our own. Besides, our tithe is not for us to make sure it’s spent well. That responsibility falls on the church leaders, and they will be held accountable for what they do with that money.
Report Post »Viper1
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:30pmMy wife and I have attended many churches in the Villages Florida. The problem that I keep running into is the fact that I was raised in the Methodist church, but the Methodist churches down here, not only believe in Social Justice, but they avidly push the agenda. Both my wife and I are Christians and we both read our bible every day and do the best that we can to live by the teachings of Jesus Christ. We would both love to be involved in a church system again, but so far we just haven’t been able to find one that we feel Christ has sent us to. P.S. We will!
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:51pmViper1,
Pray for God’s guidance, and then have the courage and the wisdom to recognize it. You will.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:03pmI don’t know a specific number, know in the last 3 churches I have been involved in it was at least that high. My current church has around 300 members that average making around 40k a year family income, and yet pay the pastor, the assistant, the music guy, they music guy all over 90k, give them all houses, buy them cars, pay for their gas, etc. Given thousands and thousands to foreign missions, and take trips all over the world to spend a few days and drop off trinkets. Their only local outreach is Sunday morning they go to the local nursing home and give a devotional, and have a program to teach illegals how to speak English well enough to get on food stamps, welfare, etc, and sign them up to vote democratic. I really think we should get this countries house in order before we try to solve others problems.
Report Post »Utahcatholic
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:32pmSwampy,
I agree with your thesis. In my case, the church(Catholic) left me, I didn’t leave them. Their support and advocacy of progressive liberal agenda while at the same time ignoring their own house caused me to leave……..they will support and house “illegal” immigrants with my contributions……….they will cover up and transfer sexual deviant priests to new parishes and pay out millions in judgements against those priests……….all the while closing Catholic schools claiming lack of funds. Doesn’t wash for me.
I’ve essentially stopped going to church. As far as charity, I give to cancer research, St. Judes childrens hospital, deceased military veterans families and local families in need after tragedy strikes. That way I’m more confident my money is being spent on things closer to my heart and not wasted on hopeless touchy-feely causes.
Report Post »jcizarter
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:11pmMy scriptures do not instruct me to go to church. If I could find it in my scriptures I would go.
Report Post »Tanach
WhiteFang
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:25pmJCIXARTER,
Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near.
I do not blame you in the least for not wanting to get involved with a erroneous church. But you can find the true congregation, if you try. Ask God for HIS direction and put aside YOUR direction. If you are sincere, you will find them.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:30pmScriptures do say that 2 or more gather in HIS name, HE will be there.
Report Post »momprayn
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:30pm“..not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together (worship services), as is the manner of some…exhorting one another….” Hebrews 10:25
Report Post »Yaakov
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:33pmShalom Tanach, If you truly know the G-D of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and accept the Covenants, you are a witness by your actions and presence. If you do not try to be a witness, you fail G-D.
Isaiah 43:10) Ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD, and My servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He; before Me there was no God formed, neither shall any be after Me. 11) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour. 12) I have declared, and I have saved, and I have announced, and there was no strange god among you; therefore ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD, and I am God.
Shalom
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:11pmMaybe it because these people see their Preachers driving new cars,new boats,living in much larger houses and put 2 and 2 together. Orginized Religion is becoming nothing more than a business at will adress itself to get a big base. Take Abortion for instance churches supposedly oppose it yet they allow women who have them continue to be part of their church. Or how about Homosexuality same thing Churches have gay preachers and gay attendees. The church was once a palce that required something from it parishioners that is no longer the case the only requirement now is 10% of what you earn. Yeah,man has taken God’s word and turned it into quite a lucrative endevor.
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:17pmWhat church do you go to? My pastor doesn’t have a fancy car, doesn’t have a house bigger than mine, but he does believe people can make a mistake and still be forgiven (regarding not excommunicationg someone because she had an abortion). And he preaches what this government is doing to religion.
Report Post »thenannerpus
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:26pmBlanket statements do not make good points…they’re rather inciteful.
Certainly there are some charlatans in the church, but there are also many good churches and church leaders.
Also, a person who has had an abortion or who has gay tendencies are sinners just like the rest of us, if they are looking for healing. I agree that churches that accept such lifestyle choices as okay are certainly not preaching the word of God.
Report Post »Obama Snake Oil Co
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:27pmSorry, but the Catholic Church doesn’t keep you in if you are gay or have an abortion. The only issue I have with them is Pelosi for supporting it and claiming to be Catholic. We have to hold politicians to the same morals as the church they profess to belong to.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:39pmthe Catholic Church will accept gay/lesbian members if they remain celibate. Practicing gay/lesbian acts remains a major sin in the church’s eye.
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:46pmAyn Rand had it right. You do not need a pastor to be righteous.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 3:01pmI‘m not saying excommunicate sinners but you certainly don’t embrace or tolerate the sin and by retrospect the sinner. Sam does drugs he‘s beats his wife and lives a life of debauchery yet he’s allowed to go to his church every sunday and is welcomed with open arms.
Report Post »I’m not saying a woman who has an abortion should be shunned for one mistake. But a woman who has an abortion and continues to live the life that resulted in that first abortion should be.
There’s has to be consequences for ones actions. And if the church can embrace the hyocrit that‘s a christian 3 hours a week and a abusive drug addict the other it’s not a church.
When Christ forgave mary for beinging a prosistute he didn‘t say go and keep doing it and I’ll forgive you every sunday. HE SAY GO AND SIN NO MORE. That in itself is impossible as sin is all around us but she was aware that spreading for bread is a sin and should stop that one for starters. The life of Christian isn‘t one of perfection and sinlessness it’s one of striving for perfection and battling our sins. If we have sinful flaws we strive to stop them some are easier than others.
I‘m a Christian and a sinner but I’m fighting everyday to be a better Christian and a lesser sinner.
My biggest one is judging but I have a feeling that in this day and age it’s everyones biggest one. I can admit that .
You spend your whole life turning away refusing to see as society crumbles and then you realize someone has to say something before
loriann12
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 11:34pmI’m Baptist. I actually had a church excommunicate someone through the procedures in the Bible. he was caught in a scandle. The deacon who discovered it went to him alone. They guy attacked him and base security had to get involved. Then the deacon went to the Pastor, and they both confronted him. He still refused to repent, so they brought it in front of the church (without going into detail) and said he was no longer welcome at that church until he came forward to admit and confess, and repent. he never came back. And yes it was adultery, as well as bilking the congregation out of money for fraudulent reasons. And he claimed cancer to hide the affair.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:09pm“Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them. – Matthew 5:3
Not everyone can recognize this need.
Report Post »Educated or not, anyone can gain accurate knowledge if they want it. John 17:3
TxMadMac
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:08pmI am bemused by your elitist comments pro educated versus lesser educated attending church. Why didn’t you ask; would you rather be seen in a unholy, worldly church or just stay at home and read your bible ? I would prefer the latter !
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:15pmThey also forgot to mention that because of Obama, the economy is so bad, some people actually have to work 2 jobs and sometimes that involves working Sundays. It’s either that or starve. The “better educated” more likely than not have a better paying job.
Report Post »Attention2Detail
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:24pmThose are not the only two options. There are many good Bible believing, Bible teaching churches. Find one of those and go. Or stick with your transparent excuse for not going. It’s your choice.
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:05pmSol Alinsky taught Church is Good to Organize socialists, Ayn Rand taught Church is bad for staying on top of the market.
Who do YOU want to worship?
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 11:22pmNobody is Holy and righteous on this earth. We’re all sinners. That doesn’t mean that we embrace the sins.
Report Post »Jamestownrd
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 8:05amYou are absolutely correctMADMAX
Report Post »firstHat
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:03pmHonestly, I think that most of our traditional religions have moved so far away from the real freedom-loving attitudes of the working class, and towards “social justice” that people just feel uncomfortable in their churchs and don’t know why.
Report Post »JLGunner
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:03pmI think it’s the mandated 10% of your income you half to cough up to belong to a church. I can’t afford to go to church.
Report Post »swehes
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:34pmIt is a matter of faith in God that he will help you if you do your part.
Malachi 3:10 “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”
A promise from God that he will bless those who willingly give a full tithe to help those in need.
Also Jesus recognize those who give of the little they have in Luke 21:1-4:
1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
There is no information of the blessings that that widow got from her great sacrifice, but in accordance to Malachi, I am pretty sure she got a blessing so great that she couldn’t not receive it, as God is a god of truth, or he can not be God.
Report Post »totallyfedup2
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:36pm@JLGunner………It does not say anywhere in the bible that giving 10% of your income is manditory. Where I go to church you give from the heart what you can, if you can‘t give they won’t even know let alone ex-communicate you!
Report Post »tersky
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 3:15pm@TOTALLYFEDUP2
Actually, it does. The word “tithe” means a tenth. See the quote from Malachi above. In the New Testament you will recall, people were told to give all. Repeatedly. The 10% might be considered a minimum.
That said, in my church, tithes and offerings are paid privately and are between you and your church leaders. If you honestly can’t pay 10%, you’re asked to pay it in faith and the Church will pick up the slack, so you would generally get more than your 10% back. No one gets kicked out of church for not paying their tithing, but the benefits of paying it far outweigh the actual cost.
And just so you know, you‘re getting this information from someone who lives so far below the poverty line that I can’t even see the top of the hole I’m in. My car has got over 145,000 miles on it and could die at any moment and I’m looking for babysitting and dogsitting jobs so I can get my rent paid in a couple weeks. My car is still running because members of church-family have given up whole days to fix it for me. My bishop covered the cost of parts. What extra work I need to get the bills paid will probably also come through church friends.
There is something to be said for being “no more strangers and foreigners”, being part of that “fellowship with the saints and of the household of God.”
It’s a matter of faith, and if you haven’t got it, you might find it worthwhile to give it a try.
Report Post »saranda
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 4:31pmThen don’t give it to your church. I give more than 10% of my income to those I feel are deserving. I connected with a dentist who works with underprivledged kids and help pay for braces and such for kids. I give to charities I understand and get close to. I offer help to people I read about who I deem deserving. I don’t need a middle man to take a piece on the way and use a good chunk to run church sponsored programs that may or may not be useful. And none of mine goes to buy more real estate or create a large investment portfolio for the church. I give where I want and how I want and it feels great.
Report Post »Utahcatholic
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 6:50pmI’m quite sure the 10% mandatory minimum is enforced aggressively by the LDS/Mormons. If you don‘t keep up with your tithe you don’t get in the door. You can maybe(?) go to a Ward House but you won‘t get in a Temple if you’re not in “good standing”.
Report Post »gregnboutz
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 10:17pmGiving because you‘re being forced to give is not giving in God’s eyes. He tells us to give from our hearts as we prosper not because we’re being forced to or compelled to. The old testiment has a %, but the new testiment doesn’t. Our world is much more complicated than the past. Giving to others in any way we please is giving even if it is not monetary as long as we are giving because we want to be giving.
Report Post »mdlwoods
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:02pmthis is totally ridiculous! It has been proven over and over again throughout history that when times get tough, people return to the Church. This is just an attempt to make it seem like people are flocking away from the Church! Watch what happens in the next couple of years. I think there will be a great awakening and a return to the Church as never been seen before.
Report Post »Yaakov
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 2:40pmHow every optimistic of you –“ couple of years”? I would guess that you do not know the signs and portents of prophecy from the Tanach(Old Testament). Maybe your church has not done so well at teaching you. Suggestion: Pick up your King James Bible and start reading on page one. You have must to learn and there is only a little time left –hurry.
Report Post »FEW2012
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 6:06pmI think Mr. Yaakov is right
Report Post »LibertarianForLife
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:02pmChurch-going is much different then believing in God. It is completetly true that the more educated you are, the less likely you are to have imaginary friends. I know of at least 10 studies off hand that comfirm this. People go to church for many other reasons the christian fools needing there religious crutch.
Report Post »thenannerpus
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:20pm“Libertarian”…yet you ridicule something outside of the scope of your beliefs? Hate to break it to ya, you’re not a libertarian.
Furthermore, belief in God has been around longer and accepted by a vast majority of people the world over.
But keep doing you’re thing man, seems to be working for you!
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:20pmName calling like a 3rd grade school girl sure makes you look enlightened, not! There are pretty much 2 ways to keep order in a society, through religious conviction, or through military might, some fantasize that enlightened people can police themselves, but history has shown over and over that this isn’t the case. Real intelligent people are smart enough to study history and realize this.
Report Post »Steel Awesome
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:25pmI think you meant “their” instead of “there” in your sentence. No problem – God forgives you.
Report Post »Handsome Pete
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:36pmUtah is arguably the most religious state in the union. The conventional wisdom would then say that Utah would be, consequently, the most uneducated state in the union. Yet Utah has annually produced more scientists per capita than any other state for the past 50 years. I‘m simply not buying the idea that it’s only the “stupid”, the “fools”, or the uneducated who believe in God or are religious. Even if it’s a self-proclaimed libertarian that tells me so.
Report Post »LibertariansUniteisanidiot
Posted on August 26, 2011 at 1:44pmYou are a hateful little thing aren’t you “Libertarianforlife?”
Report Post »Elena2010
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:00pmHow sad for our nation. The church & synagogue have formed the core of our beliefs in what is good and moral verses what it evil and bad. Without the religious foundation, secular humanism will fall apart more quickly. Flash mobs will rule instead of a civilized and self-governing populace. Woe betide us!
Report Post »JLGunner
Posted on August 23, 2011 at 1:24pmI don’t think people really understand the difference between good and evil anymore. I see de
Report Post »Jamestownrd
Posted on August 25, 2011 at 8:38amEZEKIEL CH 13..”Woe to You Who Teach my children to fly to their salvation…tell johnhagee he is full of false teaching ….mega churches …Total BS..,
Report Post »