US

As 9/11 Anniversary Approaches Some People Still Wonder: Was It An Inside Job?

9/11 Truthers Wonder if September 11 Attack Was Inside U.S. Government Job

DALLAS (The Blaze/AP) — In Dealey Plaza, with the white “X” painted on the spot where President Kennedy was assassinated, ask anyone about the grassy knoll and the second gunman.

Conspiracy theories come with the territory here. And at Barbec’s Restaurant on the other side of this sprawling city, six men sit on a covered porch and convene a meeting of the North Texans for 9/11 Truth group and talk about the government’s lies about 9/11.

The group has 50 active members; 200 on the mailing list. And they number among many thousands who, after years of investigations, don’t believe the official version of how the World Trade Center collapsed, who was responsible or what the government knew and when. Below, watch proponents discuss their beliefs:

Politics doesn’t have anything to do with it; two were once staunch, Bush-voting conservatives; two are progressives and two weren’t even interested in current events until after the 2001 attacks.

“Before 9/11, I was a working class person, going through life, pretty much accepting everything given and told to me,” said Bryan Black, a 50-year-old carpenter from Commerce, Texas, “I’m starting to see things. I’m more open to skeptical conversation.”

The skeptics — they prefer the term “9/11 truth activists“ instead of ”truthers” — have persisted, even thrived in the decade since 2001, with proponents from former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel to comedian Rosie O’Donnell. Below, watch O’Donnell unleash her 9/11 theories:

And unlike the years that Kennedy assassination conspiracies took to develop, they have mobilized with lightning-like speed on the Internet, with YouTube videos of the trade center collapsing again and again.

“There’s really a foundation of reality here,” said Ted Walter, who has worked unsuccessfully to prod New York City officials into reopening an investigation of how 7 World Trade Center collapsed on the afternoon of Sept 11. “We believe that if all of the American public saw footage of building 7 on the nightly news, it would lead to widespread skepticism of 9/11.” Below, watch the film “9/11 Interception”:

For many, conspiracy theories aren’t terrifying; they’re more comforting than the idea that an event as terrifying as Sept. 11 could be so — random.

Conspiracies can be a “security blanket” for explaining away the horrific, asserts Patrick Leman, a University of London professor who researches 9/11 theories. “It stops us from having to confront the unpredictability of life.”

Jonathan Kay, a columnist with the Canadian newspaper The National Post and the author of a book about conspiracy theories, said it’s normal for people to seek out complicated and detailed explanations of big events.

“There is something in the human mind that rebels against the idea of random forces or individuals being able to bring down powerful people or powerful icons,” said Kay.

There’s no real estimate of the numbers of people in the 9/11 “truth” movements — there’s no one leader of the skeptics. A group called Remember Building 7 presented New York’s City Council with a petition in 2009 signed by 80,000 people calling for an independent probe into the attacks. Other groups include Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Scholars for 9/11 Truth and the 9/11 Commission Campaign, founded by Gravel.

The “truthers” generally have about a dozen beliefs surrounding what happened on that day, although there are some variations on who was responsible for the attacks and why:

— Explosives brought down the World Trade Center, not hijacked jetliners.

— There were warnings of the impending attacks from 11 different countries, and fighter jets could have intercepted at least one of the four planes that day.

— Criminal conspiracies within the government caused the attacks.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology conducted a probe that took six years to complete of the tower collapses; the last report found that fire caused the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, a skyscraper north of the twin towers. In the collapses of the twin towers, the agency found that extreme heat from the jetliner crashes caused some steel beams to lose strength, causing further failures in the building until the entire structure succumbed.

The investigation “was the most comprehensive examination of a structural failure ever conducted,” said Shyam Sunder, lead investigator of the collapse investigation and led to 40 building code changes to make safer, terror-proof skyscrapers. NIST maintains a website with its reports and computer-based animations that reconstruct its findings to reach out to the public.

Sunder acknowledges it hasn’t reached everyone.

“We really can’t explain why some people question our findings about the WTC collapses when we have done our best to present those findings and how they were derived as clearly as possible,” Sunder wrote in an e-mail.

It begs the question: why is there such a distrust of government when it comes to 9/11? Is it due to feeling alienated from our fractured political system, a bad economy, or something else?

For Bob McIlvaine’s son, it was the injuries found on his son Bobby’s head, arm and skin that made him think the hijacked jetliner and building collapse couldn’t have done it. He believes that explosives were detonated in the towers’ basement before the planes hit the towers.

McIlvaine has not been able to determine where his son was when he died, but from the injuries — which include skin that was burned post-mortem — he assumes that his son was in or near the tower’s lobby. McIlvaine questions the government’s explanation that a fireball came down through the elevator shafts and burned those in the lobby. Back in 2010, he urged New York City’s council to look further into the attacks:

“I spend three hours a day, every day, doing research on 9/11,” said McIlvaine. “To me, this was a murder investigation. My son was murdered.”

Tom Theimer watched the World Trade Center crumble while drinking coffee and watching television in his suburban Dallas home. Shaken, he bought flags for his porch and bumper stickers for his car reading “We will never forget.”

A few years later, a friend of Theimer’s wife casually mentioned that 9/11 “was an inside job.” Theimer was livid and turned to the Internet, to prove the friend wrong.

The websites, the books and the documentaries he saw online persuaded him. He was wrong, and so was the system.

“I was duped,” Theimer said. “It really hurt. I cried. I couldn’t sleep for months.”

Theimer said that he and others in Dallas are planning to show a new 9/11 documentary on the 10th anniversary. Remember Building 7 is trying to raise $1 million by Sept. 11 to support a new investigation into the collapses.

A conference on alternate 9/11 theories is being held in Toronto on Sept. 11.

The conference is headed by the International Center for 9/11 Studies, which was founded by James Gourley, a 31-year-old Dallas-area attorney who began to question the events of Sept. 11 during law school, while watching an activist make his argument on C-Span.

Gourley is aware of the theories about how skeptics are simply trying to justify and explain a random, horrific event.

“It‘s basically a backwards way of saying we’re psychologically deranged,” he said. “It’s questioning the psychology of the people instead of questioning the facts.”

Even in the heart of the conspiracy theory world, some find the alternate theories hard to believe.

At Dealey Plaza in downtown Dallas, Scott Dew hawked commemorative Kennedy assassination newspapers to tourists, standing under an oak tree, just steps from a white “X” painted on the asphalt that marks where President Kennedy was assassinated in 1963.

Dew’s newspapers — which cost $5 each and come encased in a plastic sleeve — devote several pages and diagrams to the varying theories of bullet projectiles and second shooters on the grassy knoll.

Kennedy’s assassination was “a conspiracy by the government,” Dew says. “Back then, in ‘63, this was a money and power deal.”

But Sept. 11? A conspiracy? He shakes his head.

“I believe bin Laden was the attacker. I don’t believe the other theories that President Bush or the government had anything to do with it. That would just be a little too sinful,” he said.

Comments (173)

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  • thecrow
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:11pm

    “The investigation “was the most comprehensive examination of a structural failure ever conducted,” said Shyam Sunder, lead investigator of the collapse investigation and led to 40 building code changes to make safer, terror-proof skyscrapers. NIST maintains a website with its reports and computer-based animations that reconstruct its findings to reach out to the public.

    Sunder acknowledges it hasn’t reached everyone.

    “We really can’t explain why some people question our findings about the WTC collapses when we have done our best to present those findings and how they were derived as clearly as possible,” Sunder wrote in an e-mail.”

    Maybe because your investigation has been proven to be a dry-labbed fraud, Sunder:

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/wrecking-ball/

    Report Post »  
    • thepatriotdave
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 12:23am

      I have looked at all the evidence that every well respected expert, and every nut-job, has made public, and I came to the only logical conclusion that clear thinking people will… A bunch of murdering Islamic dirt-bag terrorist religious zealots plowed loaded jet liners into buildings on that fateful day.

      Could our government have stopped it, probably not. We were ill prepared to connect the dots and then have the picture being taken seriously by any govt agency. For this Bin Laden will burn in hell for eternity!

      http://www.AllenWestforPresident.us

      Report Post » thepatriotdave  
    • GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 1:12am

      The nist report was never peer reviewed or certified by any engineer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V0WQFztLyg
      They won’t explain excessive thermal energy an expect complicit acceptance.

      Report Post »  
    • Excal
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 1:24am

      “Some people still wonder?” Some people still believe the propaganda they are fed.Only those who don’t care enough about the truth to seek it diligently, “to question with boldness,” could still trust the government’s official narrative. Of all people, GB, should know the truth. I wonder why he still denies it and persecutes those who suspect the official line, like Debra Medina?

      You owe her an apology Beck!

      Report Post »  
    • Kurty C Wipe
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 1:43am

      Arlean Specter on JFK case? enough said, then he ripped off tax payers for 50 years.

      Report Post » Kurty C Wipe  
    • old white guy
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 7:54am

      jeez it sure is difficult to see those jets full of fuel smashing into the towers. inside job. what a bunch of loons.

      Report Post »  
    • AvengerK
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 12:01pm

      Van Jones and Rev. Jerry Wright will be wearing party hats and blowing party horns on the Anniversary. We saw Palestinians dancing in the streets on that day.
      Seriously stop and think about this a moment..a man that an elected president made “Czar of Green Jobs” actually believes that one of the most hienous acts of barbarism on American soil was not committed by the terrorists that admitted to it, but rather by a government they vehemently despise. Van Jones…a deluded, bitter, twisted little man given the ability (beyond the reach of congress) to manipulate the employment sector of the entire nation by a d@mned fool of a man (Barack Obama) actually believes that 9/11 was an inside job.

      Report Post »  
    • lookatthefactsjack
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 12:12pm

      Who do you think masterminded this attack? Rube Goldberg? Could it be any more convoluted and far reaching? For this conspiracy to work, “ they” would have to have the buy in from hundreds of individuals… Air traffic controllers all thru NY, Mass, PA, DC, Va,WV. The pilots of the ‘switched” planes and their crews, All of the demolition guys what rigged the WTC, all the politicians, whoever fired the ‘missile’ at the pentagon and all the folks in the fighter wing. Sounds pretty simple so far… then the drones would have to hit the towers at the proper locations so as not to damage or prematurely set off the tons of explosives hidden in the towers. Then what happened to all the people that were on the original flights? where did those planes go? Would it not have been WAY easier to hijack planes mat the last minute that were already in bound to NYC and DC, maybe from overseas. and have them crash? Also concerning the tower collapse, why would the ‘terrorists’ care if the towers fell straight down or not? Seems if they fell sideways, there would have been way more death and destruction. Doesn‘t make sense ’they’ would go to all these extremes and the MINIMIZE the damage. I’m just saying. PS Rosie is VERY misinformed that NEVER has a steel building collapsed from fire. That’s just ignorant.

      Report Post » lookatthefactsjack  
    • tower7femacamp
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 1:55pm

      I stopped wondering 7 years ago,

      I am POSITIVE 911 was an inside job !!!
      sorry PatriotDave I don’t believe you ever tried to look at the evidence
      with an open mind

      Report Post » tower7femacamp  
    • Force2bewreckin
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 2:19pm

      If you haven’t watched “loose change” then you don’t know the truth. If you watch it and still believe the official story then you are part if the cover up.

      Report Post »  
    • jzs
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 2:45pm

      ENICOM, come on. My posts are ludicrous, they don’t even make sense (after happy hour). I was mocking the conspiracy theorists. It’s called sarcasm.

      Boy, this is a slow crowd if ridiculous nonsense passes right through your BS sensor.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • encinom
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 9:26pm

      @jzs

      I have argued with truthers for the last 10 years, I have seen so many BS arguments honestly made, that unless I know the person I am assume they are a truth.

      Report Post »  
    • @ Coyote2
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 9:58pm

      I worked with structural steel for over 40 years and can say for a fact that they were brought down with controlled demolition. The twin towers central columns were 2‘ X 2’ X 2″ thick and 2‘ X 1’ X 2″ thick tubing and were cut with thermite at about 60 degree angle’s so they could slide down. They were too thick to use regular C-4 shaped cutter charges. These buildings were prepped for demolition under the guis of removing asbestes from them. Silverman told the fire dept. to “pull” building # 7 and a few short hours it went down. #7 would had to have already been prepped and it takes weeks to do that. Every I beam has to be bared at each floor and a couple inches of the web cut out with a torch. Then the C-4 shaped charges are put on the beam flanges where the web has been removed. A couple sticks of regular dynamite as kicker charges are placed on the web just above the cut and timed to go off 15 milliseconds behind the C-4. It takes miles of wire going to the detonator timer.
      It is quite a time consuming operation and would had to have been done when Silverman gave that smiley command to “PULL IT”.

      Report Post »  
    • jzs
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 10:26pm

      ENICOM, the 9-11 conspriracy is and idea is so utterly absurd it ranks right up there with the idea that the world is flat and that we didn’t actually land on the moon. I think that anyone who believes those things should be treated for an overactive imaginition, as in psychosis. I’m mostly serious here, but sometimes not.

      Report Post » jzs  
  • Slayer
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:08pm

    If it was an inside job, that means that Barack Hussein Obama is aware of it as well as many other top Democrats. So let’s start floating that truth around and see just how fast this conspiracy nonsense vanishes.
    One other thing – the video (pilots for truth) has some interesting points. But it fails to take into account the simple fact that dozens and dozens of people spread out over hundreds of miles all getting various pieces of information on a surprise attack the kind of which has never happened in history, won’t make mistakes and be in some sort of confusion as they try to sort out with each other what is happening. And don’t forget that while these planes are moving that these guys all have to go through command structures to get permission to do stuff which is confusing and takes time – as anyone who has experience having done this will know.
    Finally, there is the simple fact that Pilots for Truth assume that rumors are generated by people with malicious intent with this big conspiracy in mind. Do any of you remember all the stuff we were hearing that morning? Car bomb at the State Department? Possible this? Possible that? Reports from all over the place on which plane hit what, etc. Rumors and confusion happen when a surprise attack occurs.
    And what about the people on cell phones in the planes? Did they still have the ability to call after the planes had crashed, suggesting that the planes had not crashed at all? Or did their conversations end right then?

    Report Post » Slayer  
    • Marci
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:21pm

      Slayer is correct. If you believe THIS, then you have to believe everyone in the government is involved, including our current President, his many appointees and lifetime congresscritters. Which also means, this has A LOT to do with politics. In order for you to buy into this theory, you have to believe even those you voted in are responsible. It would have to be a massive collaborative cover up. So if you believe in this and then support those same politicians and their crackpot b.s. (Rosie O’ Donnell hello–Van Jones, scary…), I am calling b.s. on you. MOST of those who go on this theory are only Bush ranters who refuse to call out one name of a Democratic politician, let alone Obama. So not buying their so-called “activism”.

      Report Post » Marci  
    • Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:25pm

      Even the most solid Truther argument in the world still looks like a slice of swiss cheese.

      Report Post » Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American  
    • jzs
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:42pm

      Slayer is correct. What about those cell phone calls from passengers after the plane crashed? How is it the buildings started to fall BEFORE the planes hit??? If this weren’t a conspiracy, why is it that Bush issues a directive (PD-13011) to divert secret service resources from the known threat of Imslamists taking flying lesson to drugs crossing the border???

      And what about the laws of physics? Maybe you can explain to me how Bush managed to defy the laws of physics. I await your response.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • encinom
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:46pm

      JZS, you are an idiot and provinf with each post on this topic.

      Report Post »  
    • GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 10:20pm

      You can’t selectively enforce the laws of physics.
      No credible form of energy, short of fission, can account for the underground fire pit left behind.
      The dust data backs nukes, as does the seismic data, and the FACT no other power source can generate the amount of heat left behind. They were hoping hurricane Erin would wash away the dust and cool down the plasma cavities.
      The $6million dollar man theory (what the MSM and the US fed gov push), doesn’t begin to conform to the LAWS OF PHYSICS!!

      Report Post »  
    • jzs
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 10:54pm

      encinom, I prove it with all my posts.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • Wilkins
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 11:06pm

      No bureacracy is clever enough, efficient enough, or well enough co-ordinated to pull off a conspiracy this complicated. If the government tried to do this they’d screw it up like everything else they get involved in. Sorry truthers.

      Report Post »  
    • GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 11:24pm

      @ wilkins And yet u believe a cave dweller in Afghanistan sent a prayer to Ahla and over came the laws of physics and the most sophisticated defense system in the world.
      Sounds like we need to fire the military for being incompetent, and convert to Islam.!.

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 1:24am

      JZS, if you had any sense you would realize that you have a pile of dung you are passing off as evidence. I have heard nearly all the truthiness arguements, they are all bunk. They have no evidence or science supporting them.

      Report Post »  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 5:58am

      Arguing with Truthers is like arguing with a pothead on his tenth bong hit. They have their own sets of facts and logic impervious to rational analysis. Presenting them with actual facts only fuels their paranoia because they “know” that you are either a dupe or a willing part of the conspiracy. I think they are best deprogrammed individually like cult followers.

      But what a pleasant surprise to be here on the same side as Encinom. Good luck folks. I have other things I need to attend to than “debating” with lunatics.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 10:19am

      Groundzero,

      They were not cave dwellers. Over half of them had engineering degrees.

      Truthers will accept nothing as proof other than proof of government conspiracy and that will never ever happen.

      Report Post » Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American  
    • AvengerK
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 12:04pm

      JZS…stop taking LSD. I watched (along with the world) the events of that day. The planes hit, the towers burned for a while, then they fell. IT’S ON VIDEO BY EVERY NEWSSERVICE IN THE LAND YOU NUMBSKULL. “Fell before the planes hit”…put the crackpipe down you buffoon.

      Report Post »  
  • mendolover
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:07pm

    Hey Glenn –
    You may be finally delving into more risque subject matter (it‘s about friggin’ time) since you left Fox, or Fox left you. Whatever. Anyway it looks like your fan base has a way to go still. By the way, anyone who still believes the official story ten years later without even wondering if it is true is an absolute moron.

    Report Post »  
    • Marci
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:24pm

      Mendo-refer to my previous post and consider yourself duly labeled with that of which you so sanctimoniously try to do others. Do you hate all of our government? Just checking. Many of the current top leaders would have to be involved. I don’t see ANYONE trying to pin them down. Only George Bush and Dick Cheney. And if they did so…they would have to have a LOT of cooperation. Do you honestly think the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Reid, Franks and especially Obama wouldn’t let that cat out of the bag?

      Report Post » Marci  
    • encinom
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:27pm

      No, if your believe Alex Jones and the rest of the truthiness movement than you are a brain dead idiot. After ten years the truthiness movement has offered zero evidence to support any one of their numerous theories. Remove the tin foil hat it is cutting off the flow of blood to your brain.

      Report Post »  
  • thecrow
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:07pm

    “For many, conspiracy theories aren’t terrifying; they’re more comforting than the idea that an event as terrifying as Sept. 11 could be so — random.

    Conspiracies can be a ‘security blanket’ for explaining away the horrific, asserts Patrick Leman, a University of London professor who researches 9/11 theories. ‘It stops us from having to confront the unpredictability of life.’”

    ******** psychobabble fallacy.

    Which is more “comforting”: random acts of violence or powerful, well-connected, mass-murdering terrorists at large and above the law?

    This is the actual awakening process:

    “Theimer said. ‘It really hurt. I cried. I couldn’t sleep for months.’”

    Guess he forgot his “security blanket”.

    Report Post »  
  • W@nd@
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:58pm

    The inferno and heat unleashed by all those fully fueled aircraft of living bombs was unfathonable!
    To say it would not melt steel is beyond belief ..how do we get steel girders and beams in the first place?
    My take on it: The construction was a building hanging suspended, thethered inside of an outside shell ..which had never been done to my knowledge up to that point in time…i think to help with the swaying like a shock absorber inside the bldg…. it was the buttresses inside teethering to the outside shell that gave way from the tremedous fireball and heat collapsing and pancaking its way to the ground…it was the weak link ~ i do not thinkl even the perpetrators realized this would happen…maybe my picturing it may be off but when i read it i tried to imagine it trying to see it in my mind ..but right or wrong i just do not see it as our govt doing such a thing (after all it was not a democat administration in power at the time. i think only a democat might conjer up a disaster for their own purposes…seems to be how they deal with a lot of things maybe that is why they are so quick to think this!) It was a real enemy that wants to destroy us and still does tho this admn doesn’t get it!

    Report Post »  
    • GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 10:46pm

      What an exaggeration of ignorance.
      There was a ton of tower for every POUND of plane.
      Not enough energy to take those towers down by hydrocarbon fire PERIOD. Not even under optimum conditions, and the conditions were NO WHERE NEAR OPTIMUM.
      Next u will be saying they were flying 500mph, the drag at sea level flight it way too much to allow that.

      Report Post »  
    • Wilkins
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 11:20pm

      geez groundzero, no one tried to claim it was the kinetic energy of the aircraft impact that brought down the towers.

      Also as for your problem with the temperature of a jet fuel flame, saw dust isn’t explosive, but get enough in the air, add a spark, and you’ve got a catastrophe. The aircraft, fueled for a trans-continent flight, hit the towers with enough force to spray their fuel loads into a fine mist throughout the penetrated floors. Sure the resulting fire was hot enough to weaken the steel, and once those floors started to collapse the steel below couldn’t withstand the impacts. The towers were brought down by the collapsing mass of the structure above.

      Your objections are too simplistic.

      Report Post »  
    • wildbill_b
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 5:31pm

      @GroundZero

      What is the proper Stoichiometric ratio for optimal burn of “heavy hydrocarbons”?

      What did one of the planes hitting on the 81 floors in the twoway area?

      What is the ignition temperature of the 180,000 lbs of Aluminum and Magnesium airframe of the plane?

      What is the burning temperature of above non ferrous metals?

      What is the result of the addition of H20 to FE heated above 500F? Is this reaction endothermic or exothermic? Why did they stop spraying “salt” water on the fires?

      What is the maximum speed Boeing aircraft which hit the building at “Sea level” in a descending flight path?

      If the buildings fell “at free fall speed” (whatever that is supposed to mean), how fast then, in your opinion, were the pieces seen falling FASTER than the building going? What is the source of that acceleration?

      If you can manage to answer these basic questions in some rational form, Then I will concede that you have the first clue about what you are posting. However, considering how absurd your comments are on their face, I feel confident that you lack the ability to answer or even begin to understand the mechanics of the collapses.

      Have a nice day.

      Report Post »  
    • GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 7:09pm

      What is this? Ask a thousand questions and if I get one wrong all my statements are discredited.
      C12H26(l) + 37/2 O2(g) → 12 CO2(g) + 13 H2O(g); ∆H˚ = -7513 kJ
      Is English your 1st language? Show me 1000 passenger seats, and tubines (that would not have been destroyed in the $6million man theory u support)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBpTWYUgvcM
      I suppose you throw beer cans in the burning barrel out back and they spontaneously combust? Why would temp be relative to weight?
      Magnesium is not a MAJOR component in aircraft construction, it is used but not like u imply. Please SA, name a magnesium component on a 767.
      Ever try to light a cheap sparkler, it ain’t easy. Aprox 2k F
      If it were to catch, the light would be a giveaway.
      Steam, neither ex or endo. How did they even get sw to the fire?
      Max sl speed, it was calculated by the video images as 220 but they may get close to 300. NO WHERE NEAR 400!! US gov claimed over 500, complete BS.
      Accl of gravity is 32.2 ft/sec 9.8 m/sec, BASIC INFO ANY1 SHOULD KNOW!
      “165759239.061504 Joules at impact alone.”
      U don’t understand significant digits very well. A later post discloses a conservative acct of my formal education.
      For every pound of plane, there was a ton of tower. U don’t have to be a math wiz to fig the effect.
      A typical debunker will no longer respond at this point, pick a forum and we will debate more.
      Started out as a tool maker.

      Report Post »  
  • Eric Von Zipper
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:56pm

    My friends… I’ve never actually seen a person with their head up their ass… but I guess these loser fools prove that they really do exist…

    Report Post » Eric Von Zipper  
  • 13th Imam
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:53pm

    What I do know is that the Barry Whitehouse along with Eric Holder gave Weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels, one of which killed a US Agent. That piece of filth in the Whitehouse should be in prison.

    Report Post » 13th Imam  
  • Maxim Crux
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:49pm

    Everyone should know by now that the WAR ON TERROR is a farce. We are in the longest war of the history of this country because they started a war on something that can never, ever be won by man…and we all fell for it.

    Report Post »  
  • momprayn
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:45pm

    I haven‘t researched any of this but I do think there could have been some traitors in our Govn’t/White House (but not GWB, Cheney, Rumsfield)’; bin Laden/radical Islamic terrorists did it, but maybe in conjunction somehow with “our” traitors – and maybe there were explosives as that theory goes. It‘s naive to think we haven’t had/have dangerous traitors up there who hate America that are giving out our secret info, whatever – and scheming to destroy us, involve us in war – whatever & blame it on the radical Muslims only to give them cover as they continue. I believe we have them there as we speak…manipulating (we already know of some, right?). But if so, no, Pres. Bush, Cheney, etc. weren’t aware of it – in my opinion.

    Report Post »  
    • joe3
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 11:09pm

      my gut tells me bush was not behind 911 in any way, his response in that class room said it all, he was shocked and pissed off. i can not rule out other foreign actors, such as george soros. who is to say al quaida is not a private merc army similar to blackwater. the world bank, the IMF, they certainly could be players, we borrowed lots of their money for these wars, we are now a police state, with the tsa, the banker bailouts, the FED devaluing the dollar, and the totalitarian patriot act in place for the patriots who are not happy with the country going totalitarian. these foreign banking cartels have looted our economy, and they have a big brother thug heavy in place to stop any one from demanding we put their asses in jail. 50 of the worlds 100 largest economies are private corporations, obviously they like china more than america. 911 was the first shot in the war that has brought our country to second rate status, i am very willing to look beyond the story that men in caves are the only ones bringing down america, we are being brought down by internationalists, look at who they put in the white house and look at what he is doing to america. asking questions is good, saying something is true without proof is not good. how is asking questions about 911 bad?
      i am willing to look into all questions, im not willing to blindly blame george bush. my gut says bush had nothing to do with it, soros and ilk, i bet they had a hand in 911.

      Report Post »  
  • Stu D. Baker-Hawk
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:37pm

    Rosie O’Donnell makes the perfect reverse barometer: Whatever she says, the reverse must be true. Thanks, Rosie!

    Report Post »  
    • Dustoff
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 9:44am

      Yeah, she’s really up there in the IQ level.

      Report Post » Dustoff  
    • GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 10:12am

      And yet they accomplished this task from the top of the tower, with LESS energy than the 1st attempt.

      COMPLETELY AGREE, SOME PEOPLE REALLY ARE STUCK ON STUPID!!

      Report Post »  
    • wildbill_b
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 5:46pm

      GroundZero
      And yet they accomplished this task from the top of the tower, with LESS energy than the 1st attempt.

      How much “energy” was used on the first attempt? How much “energy” did the plane impart to the building? Here is the grade school math that seems to elude you.
      KE= 1/2 mv*2

      Using the lightest flight weight for a 757-200 we have 99,800 kilos. Using a average speed (far below the estimated speed of impact ) of 643.7376 kph (400 mph/ 178.816 m per sec) we arrive at a value of 165759239.061504 Joules at impact alone. I bet you are not overly competent in the fields of math and physics at a guess.

      Report Post »  
  • GabeTheGreat
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:35pm

    All you need to know about the twin towers is that they fell at free-fall speed. The laws of physics are the ultimate authority and they say that you must move the mass below the falling portion or you will not reach free-fall speed. Any physicist that looks at the falling buildings and doesnt immediately see that is a bad physicist.

    About the jfk, just dont watch him, keep your eyes on the DRIVER of the car he’s the one who delivers the kill shot over his rt shoulder, his name was spcl agnt william greer and the passenger was also a spcl agent and he was driving, this is all old news exposed by william cooper a long time ago.

    also, if people who ask questions are “truthers” because they want the truth, doesnt that mean you’re a non-truther and want the lie? seems logical to me.

    Report Post » GabeTheGreat  
    • Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:52pm

      They didn’t fall at free fall speed. This is a common truther fib. For the driver to have shot JFK, everyone in the car would have to have been in on it as well as everyone on the grassy knoll.

      Report Post » Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American  
    • 13th Imam
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:56pm

      Gravity is a funny thing. Apples fall straight down. Except in a very stiff wind.

      Report Post » 13th Imam  
    • Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:59pm

      I‘ve been reading about the JFK conspiracies for a loooooong time and this driver theory is THE NUTTIEST one I’ve ever heard. Ever. Complete lunacy.

      Report Post » Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American  
    • GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 11:07pm

      Yet his head goes front to back, meaning he was shot in the FACE not he back of the head. This is a function called conservation of energy. I have NEVER seen a target move into the path of a bullet, after being hit. And b/c the LAWS OF PHYSICS don’t agree w/ the rule gov, we are said to wear tin hats.

      Gee, who wrote the commission report?? Maybe phillip zelikow from HUSTON TEXAS. O, well what was his graduate thesis on?? Maybe “how myths perpetuate through society”. Ever hear of the Brown Bros? Maybe you heard of the Co they started called KBR (b is 4 brown), only the lions share of Halliburton.
      Read, “The Halliburton Agenda” Briody learn some un-sanitized history. Ya fed gov brainwashed shills.
      In the last quarter of this interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssnlbnAGGV0
      He tells of the agent who investigated LHO’s former job in LA, where ALL those who asso w/ LHO, w/i a yr, took jobs in Huston WITH NASA!!

      Report Post »  
    • lookatthefactsjack
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 11:14am

      If you investigate for your self, the truth becomes self evident. Free burning kerosene produces heat of around 900 degrees. (Please check ALL of these facts before you make a judgement). According to the Machinery’s Handbook (20th edition, printed in 1976, before 911) structural steel looses 51% of its strength at 930 degrees. Generally, steel beams in multi-story buildings are coated with a heavy layer of insulation to keep fire from impinging directly on the steel (thereby weakening it) for some number of hours. (depending on the expected fire response and local fire suppression (sprinklers) and the expected evacuation times) This this is called the fire rating expressed in hours. In the case of the WTC, logic would dictate that at least some of the sprayed-on insulation was knocked off on impact. If so, would it also make sense that those beams were weakened, at least somewhat?? If they were weakened and the weight from above (maybe a million of pounds) started to descend(even 1 inch), wouldn’t that put greater load on the surrounding beams causing them to buckle and allow the load to move even more? Thereby causing the chain reaction that we saw on TV of the floors collapsing onto one another?

      Report Post » lookatthefactsjack  
    • GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 12:22pm

      @Lookat I use the 23rd ed of Machinist hand book.
      This temp quote is an OPTIMUM burn temp. With black smoke billowing out, it was no where near optimum.
      In addition, nist freely admits the fuel burned off in the 1st ten minutes. It takes about 20min to bring steel up to thermal equilibrium (i.e. equal to the source temp) Steel conducts thermal energy very well, and such a hotspot on a single beam is stretching logic to the extreme.
      At least you are trying to justify it, more than any other debunker here has attempted to do.

      Report Post »  
    • tower7femacamp
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 1:59pm

      Does hot metal bend or disintegrate ????

      Why did 3 sky skyscrapers fall into their own foot print on sept 11
      yet building around the world burn for days without this effect ?

      Report Post » tower7femacamp  
  • GOTT-EM-MAUSER
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:33pm

    Whatever the finer details of the 911 event may be, WE will NEVER KNOW them, of that you can be SURE. Based on MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE gained from it, rest assured of three Constants concerning GOVERNMENT DISCLOSURE:

    1. EVERYTHING that the “GOVERNMENT” tells the People, about such things, is a LIE.

    2. NOTHING is EVER what it APPEARS to be, filtered through the GOVERNMENT LOOKING GLASS.

    3. EVERYTHING HAPPENS for a REASON, and it is NEVER the one we are given.

    So the “TRUTH about 911” is, that it achieved, that which it was intended to achieve, for BOTH SIDES.

    Report Post »  
  • progressiveslayer
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:31pm

    Most of us complain how inept government is,does anyone think the government could pull it off if they’re that inept? Not an inside job folks.And no I don‘t trust the government but they didn’t pull off 9/11.

    Report Post » progressiveslayer  
    • jzs
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:43pm

      Sorry slayer, you’re wrong. All evidence points to George Bush masterminding the entire thing. Physics proves it, all the videos prove it. Sorry, you can’t proclaim that this was an act of divinity. It was an act of sheer physics as somebody pointed out. And all the direction and velocity vectors point directly at Bush. Stop embracing fantasy land and take the time to understand physics. Take a course at a local junior college or whatever, just like Gabby (above) must have.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:55pm

      If a simple understanding of basic physics explains it all then why are no structural engineers, physicists, or architects on the Truther’s side? You’re talking about the single most scrutinized engineering failure in the history of human civilization with countless pages of independent research published on it and yet there is still ZERO concrete evidence.

      Sorry, but no matter how many hours you spend watching and rewatching youtube clips it still won’t turn total speculation and assumption into hard evidence.

      Report Post » Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American  
    • encinom
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:35pm

      I agree with ProgressiveSlayer on this, if you are a truther you have no understanding of science, zero. The researchers at NIST, MIT and other leading universities have put the science to rest. The psuedo science of Steve Jones and Dick Gage do not pass the sniff test.

      The truther movement is a money making racket of Alex Jones and others to take advantage of ignorant fool’s paranoia.

      Report Post »  
    • jjufon
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 11:03pm

      yet somehow, some dummys training in the desert pulled off many “first time in history” events?

      NEVER has a sky scrapper been destroyed by fire; never.

      the black box has been found from every crash; except these.

      Fire fighter are on film telling people to get back from buld 7; telling them “they are going to blow it”

      Fire fighters who arrived in the lobby, stated “a bomb went off in here”

      the jet fuel didn’t “hang-around” all day. 99% burned off on first impact. the fuel DID NOT increase the temp of the fire.

      Report Post »  
    • Elena2010
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 12:05am

      @JJ — the flight recorders were found. We have the voices of the terrorists on tape forever.

      Report Post » Elena2010  
    • jjufon
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 10:40am

      No, only flight 93 was found

      Report Post »  
  • kickagrandma
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:31pm

    I cannot believe she is still walking around free. Oh, that’s right. This IS AMERICA. You aren’t put in prison here or killed here for your opinions. Even big, fat, ugly anti-AMERICAN women who have gotten rich spewing their vitriol all over the rest of us who LOVE AMERICA, can still mouth off whenever they choose.

    Inside job?

    Try the bought/forced/illegal election of an illegal candidate who has been ‘ACTING’ for his whole life who is ILLEGALLY not serving as “resident” in OUR HOUSE if you want to talk about “inside jobs”. There you go, rosie.

    Report Post »  
  • Essobk
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:28pm

    Any body want to fully understand the wtc7 collapsing by only having a little debris hitting it. Go and pour some concrete and then set it on fire. Get back with me on the results.
    Here is the video of the fire of WTC7 that is to be believed as what collapsed the building “within its footprint”. You tell me.

    Report Post »  
    • Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:57pm

      Take the time to look at the way the building was constructed as well as the number of load-bearing supports versus upper-floor weight.

      Not a single structural engineer agrees with truthers. But they must be in on it, right?

      Report Post » Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American  
    • encinom
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 9:39pm

      Only WTC7 was hit by several hundred tons of falling steel from WTC 1, had raging interal fires (not external as your experiment suggests) and was not a solely a concret building, but similar to the steel and glass construction of the rest of the complex. You, like the truhiness movement, are an idiot.

      Report Post »  
  • llotus
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:28pm

    On this tenth anniversary…I have to wonder just what these people have planned…..if anything. Lotus.

    Report Post »  
  • SavingtheRepublic.com
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:27pm

    OMG are they really going to touch on this. If anyone has a clue on building demolitions and how those building were constructed you know it wasnt an inside job. As for WTC I have seen vids of it internally before it collapsed as well as a very rare shot of it from the outside where there IS heavy damage. Again if you know demolitions understand shape charges etc and how they are constructed you know it was impossible to do. Of course the conspiracy nuts fabricate new technologies with no shred of proof like micro thermite and whatever else they can dream up when they are proven clueless.

    As for the Pentagon again I have seen photos (internally and externally) most havent and understand the physics not to mention seeing footage shortly after of countless eyewitnesses who “saw the plane fly over real low and fast… where it looked like it first hit the ground then bounced into the building”

    Conspiracists cannot accept the fact that 19 dirtbags studied our airline security measures in place at the time and ran a perfect operation slamming those planes into the WTC, Pentagon.

    Report Post » SavingtheRepublic.com  
  • llotus
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:25pm

    I dont think it was an inside job and nutjobs like rosie confirms it. To me any way. Why are they always on the side of the enemy? It may be cause they are also the enemy? They sure sound like the enemy. Lotus.

    Report Post »  
    • Shasta
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:27pm

      They sound like Jane Fonda, the enemy indeed.

      Report Post » Shasta  
  • whatthecrazy
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:22pm

    And some people are still stuck on stupid

    Report Post »  
    • Dustoff
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 9:50am

      Your not kidding… These fools forget, they tired to drop the buildings once before.

      Report Post » Dustoff  
    • GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 1:19pm

      And yet they accomplished this task from the top of the tower, with LESS energy than the 1st attempt.

      COMPLETELY AGREE, SOME PEOPLE REALLY ARE STUCK ON STUPID!!

      (my comment was redirected to the wrong reply)

      Report Post »  
  • N37BU6
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:22pm

    The “why” argument is far more important than the “how” one. But it gets sidelined.

    Report Post » N37BU6  
  • patriot4ever
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:21pm

    any nut-job theory to take the blame off the Islamic terrorists that did it. Truthers are denying the truth by making up this crap because they can’t handle the truth,

    Report Post » patriot4ever  
  • beckwasfox
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:14pm

    One thing is certain…when Rosie O’dumbbell takes up a cause people are bound to shut it out of their minds.

    Report Post » beckwasfox  
    • Weiners Wiener
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:27pm

      I remember when Rosie O’Donnel made her statements. It was then only DAYS later that a bridge in Oakland collapse because ‘fire melted steel’. Oops!

      Report Post »  
    • joe3
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 11:21pm

      weiner, fire does not melt steel, that was the first time in history a building over 15 stories fell from fire, and it 3 fell that day. for instance earlier this year a sky scraper in china burnt for a week, full blown inferno, did not fall. does that mean 911 was an “inside job”, no, not at all. the only thing takes down buildings like that is thermite, used by demolition crews, and wow, there was thermite found in the foot print. however that points to a much more innocent answer, its called risk management, and likely was the right call, “pull it” before the building tips over and kills 50,000 people. remember, these buildings were attacked before, and the terrorists said we will drop these buildings. if i was the owner if the WTC, I sure as hell would have had those buildings ready to be brought down in a controlled safe manner in the event some crazy parks another large bomb in the basement, tipping them over like red wood on the rest of the city. 3000+ people who died largely got trapped inside by bodies stacked in the doorways, many folks got out, but that could have easily been much worse. thats my best guess, i just do not see a inside job as likely as pick the best bad option. who knows the fire may have dropped them the first and only time ever….

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 12:38am

      @mindless joe

      The steel didn’t melt on 9/11, the only ones to argue that point is truthers. The steel was weakened, but didn’t melt.

      The first time in history statement is an error of logic given that at no other time in history did any other buildings, built as the trade center was, was hit by 767′s flying at high speed.

      Thermite was not found at the WTC site, the only evidence is a suspect paper by a disgraced professors who prior to 9/11 was looking for historical evidence of Chirst in America after the resurection. What the paper reports finding is sulfer, rust, aluminum and other materials common in drywall and other building materials.

      The pull it comment relates to WTC 7 and if made has nothing to do with demolition.

      Report Post »  
    • GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 12:39am

      @joe3 thermite is a red herring. It was never considered a theory until Dimitri Khalezov published his book and gave complementary copies to congress. Steven E. Jones dust data supports Khalezov by showing an elemental correlation to the granite bedrock. The white vapor rising shortly after the fall is Al2O3 (aluminum oxide) evaporating out of the bedrock, due to extreme heat. Notice the subterranean pit left behind (they claim it is due to centuries of glacial wear) how it is grey in contrast due to the Al2O3 being forced out. Granite is 72% SiO2, and yet Jones is baffled as to where the silicone in his results came from. Notice the trace elements of granite show as trace elements in the dust. Deutsche bank’s 1st dust analysis show MOLYBDENUM spheres as a strange anomaly. It takes 4700 deg F to melt molybdenum, an alloy of structual steel.

      Report Post »  
    • 13th Imam
      Posted on August 12, 2011 at 8:30am

      Joe
      It was M-80′s, a couple of cherry bombs, and a box a sparklers

      Report Post » 13th Imam  
  • claymoremacm
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:12pm

    Idiots will always think it was a conspiracy…I am I.right Rosie?

    Report Post » claymoremacm  
    • Kurty C Wipe
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:19pm

      Do you trust your own government? Really, do you?

      Report Post » Kurty C Wipe  
    • Charles
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 10:11pm

      I dont trust the government. On the other hand it would take way too many people with way too much discipline and intelligence in high echelons to make this happen. They just aren’t there. This happened because the government did what I do most certainly trust it to do. It failed. Miserably.

      Report Post »  
  • Patrick in AZ
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:10pm

    Was It An Inside Job?
    —————————
    Nope

    Report Post » Patrick in AZ  
  • poverty.sucks
    Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:09pm

    Yes it was an inside job, Barack Hussein Obama Jr had knowledge.

    Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • Shasta
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:17pm

      Rosie was wright about one thing when she asked “What do you have to do to get impeached in the country?” Obummer has to go.

      Report Post » Shasta  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on August 11, 2011 at 8:18pm

      Next he wiped Israel off the White House map.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
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