Atheist Family Loses Lawsuit to Have ‘Under God’ Removed From the Pledge of Allegiance
- Posted on June 11, 2012 at 10:55am by
Billy Hallowell
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Back in February, we told you about an atheist family in Massachusetts that has been engaged in a legal battle to have “under God” removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. In a press release sent out on Monday morning, the American Humanist Association announced that the Middlesex Superior Court ruled against the family. According to the statement, the atheist parents are already planning an appeal.
(Related: Atheist Family Sues to Have ‘Under God’ Removed From Pledge of Allegiance)
As The Blaze previously reported, the family decided to sue the Acton-Boxborough school system, claiming that the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance with the words “under God” discriminates against their children. The parents, who wish to remain anonymous, are identified only as John and Jane Doe. They have three children in the district — one in high school and two others in middle school.
In Middlesex Superior Court earlier this year, David Niosie, the family’s lawyer asked that the words be taken out of the expression of loyalty to America. Now, the atheist and humanist community is already reacting with fervor to the family’s loss. In the press release, the AHA railed against the court’s decision and stated plans to continue fighting the matter. The official decision can be read here.
“No child should go to school every day, from kindergarten to grade twelve, to be faced with an exercise that defines patriotism according to religious belief,” said Niose, who also serves as the president of the AHA. “If conducting a daily classroom exercise that marginalizes one religious group while exalting another does not violate basic principles of equal rights and nondiscrimination, then I don’t know what does.”
Rather than tackling the federal government, the family — led by the AHA — went after the state’s use of “under God,” claiming that it was a violation of the Massachusetts constitution.
“If the federal government decides to write a discriminatory Pledge, the Massachusetts Constitution nevertheless protects children in the Commonwealth from the discrimination that would occur from daily recitation of the Pledge in classrooms,” Niose continued.
The main issue, the AHA president claims, is that the Pledge is “a daily indoctrination.” The recitation essentially, in his view, defines patriotism as a belief in the ideal that a higher power exists.
“When we define patriotism with a religious truth claim—that the nation is in fact under a god—we define nonbelievers as less patriotic,” he said.
It seems the battle will likely continue, via an appeal, as the family seeks to ensure that the Pledge and its supposed indoctrination be halted.
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Comments (313)
65Mustang
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:44amOnce again, if people do not like the Constitution, the Pledge of Allegiance, the phrase “under God, and all the freedoms that America once had, please move to another country and don’t come back.
Report Post »Want our country back
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:50amGod – 1 and won
Report Post »Atheist – wake up
TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:56amanother olympic class leap. has nothing to do with the constitution; it merely has to do with an ADDED phrase at the end of the pledge that wasn’t added until the cold war. why do you have to be christian to be a patriot? I don’t even agree with these atheist dopes but the generalizations on this board are maddening.
Report Post »Bluebonnet
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:56amThank God, thank God for common sense, we’re free at last! This Country is founded on belief in God and if you others don’t approve, move on.org and get the hell out of our country.
Report Post »oldguy49
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:56amthank god
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:23pmFamilies should not be able to remain anonymous.
Report Post »black9897
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:31pmGood. People need to get over themselves. If something “offends” you then don’t say it, listen to it, watch it, etc. Why on earth this would “offend” anyone is beyond me.
Report Post »pyeatte
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:45pmMight I suggest North Korea.
Report Post »GIDEON612
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 1:44pmPraise GOD !!!!
Report Post »blackyb
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 1:47pmI second that.
Report Post »ctec67
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 1:49pmAmen!
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 2:14pm@Jerk – “Families should not be able to remain anonymous.”
Why not? Do you want to bring your angry mob, with their torches and pitchforks, to harass and lynch them for exercising their legal rights in court?
Report Post »Jilly33
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 2:20pmActually, I do not think you understand the Constitution, as it guarentee’s the separation of Church and State. The goverment is not allowed to favor any specific religious ideologies, period. The Pledge did not have the words “Under God” in it when it was originally made. The phrase was added in 1957 in response to the Cold War and was pushed through congress by religious senators in response to said Cold War. It needs to be taken out and it needs to be taken out now. The religious right have taken over this country, and forcing atheists to recite their “religious phrases” as an oath of patriotism is not what the founding fathers had intended for this country and is discriminatory at best. This was the reason why the “Separation of Church and State” was included in the Constitution, so these things didn’t happen. If this is the way they wanted things, they wouldn’t have bothered with this clause in the Constitution, don’t you think?
Report Post »The people that are fighting these issues are Americans in the truest sense of the word. They fight for ALL Americans, not just the ones that believe in God. They have the interests of all, not just the ones that follow Christian principles, at heart.
mcsledge
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 2:28pmThe_Jerk – the KKK is another anonomous party. They claim to stand for something, but hide behind hoods. I think it is fair to say that those who stand for character, principle and standards, find no shame in revealing themselves.
Report Post »jjcostandi
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 2:41pmto @65MUSTANG i say:
no! i‘m here and i’m staying here. you and your folks move to the vatican if you want to.
i can hardly understand why the “under god” promoters and defenders are offended and become angry and obnoxious when i recite my pledge of allegiance as follows:
“i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and the republic for which it stands, one nation, under LAW, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
the pledge of allegiance with the “under god” phrase included divides people and sets them against one another. and to do this for children and set them against one another is both unconscionable and unpardonable.
it takes a real hater like you @65MUSTANG and the likes of you to be offended by my recitation of the pledge.
and by the way, our creator is the LAW of nature … whether you like it or not.
Report Post »Grubmeister
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:17pmLike most people, I stand and recite the pledge. When those words, “under god” come up, my lips stop moving and I make no sound. I pick it up again after the prayer session is finished.
Report Post »That the phrase was added to the pledge sounds bizarre these days. Kind of like living in Pleasantville, before color arrived. I can only state my own preferences here and that would be to remove it. It may be difficult for someone of the xtian persuasion to believe, but every time it comes up, I feel like an outcase in my own country. I just don’t think it is necessary and I do believe the intention of the first amendment was to prevent this kind of thing from happening. I think Jefferson and Madison would have found a way to have the proposal tabled before it gained any traction.
LRE
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:24pm@Jilly
The words/phrase “Separation of Church and State” don’t/doesn’t appear in the US Constitution. It states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
Fact is that this country WAS founded upon Christian values/teachings and a belief in God. You don’t have to believe in God… that’s your right… but you don’t have a right to change history or the facts.
If the atheist children want to omit “under God” while reciting the Pledge, that’s their right… but for a minority to restrict the majority by eliminating it altogether is simply wrong. The majority can use the same constitutional argument that the government can’t restrict them from saying “under God” (i.e., exercising the free exercise of their religion).
Obviously, the Court agrees.
Incidently, the phrase “Separation of Church and State” came from a letter written by Jefferson to a group of Baptist leaders in 1802 (well after the US Constitution was adopted)… in this letter, Jefferson referred to a “wall of separation” between Church and State.
Report Post »IslandAtheist
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:34pmPeople are waking up, that‘s why they’re atheists. Have you heard of the Clergy Project? http://clergyproject.org/
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:48pmThe Pledge was changed by conservatives to include the words “Under God” in 1954–it is the RIGHT who are the revisionists here, so if anyone is rewriting sacred American tradition and deserves to be kicked out of the country on this issue, it’s conservatives.
Report Post »mental
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:51pmPeople are quick to point out the founding fathers and their great nation under god.
“Under God” was not originally in the Pledge of Allegiance, it was added in the 1950′s.
“In God We Trust” was formally adopted in 1956.. it was originally E pluribus unum.
God is not mentioned in the Constitution at all. All the constitution guarantees is your freedom to believe what you want to believe, and my freedom not to be forced to share your views.
Report Post »IslandAtheist
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:52pmThe Federalist Papers, which argued for the ratification of the Constitution, were written anonymously by our founding fathers.
Report Post »alrunner58
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:55pmI agree. If you don’t like it get the he11 out of here. I’m sick of these people trying to change America. Just to say the pledge if you a commie.
Report Post »Allieann
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 4:22pmIt is amazing that they would not relocate to a part of the world where their belief (or lack thereof) system will be okey-dokey. Our constitution, religious freedom is the basis for America, if your goal is to denounce such, tout Atheism, enforce Shariah laws or radical Islam. go somewhere else. America was created by a strong group of people who knew what they would and would not tolerate or live with… tyranny and threats to freedom. Guess what we still are willing to see this through for future generations and our safety! Keep pushing your agendas and you are going to be re-educated in America Patriotism.
Report Post »4GODUSAANDISRAEL
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 4:39pm@ third…actually, the addition of “under God” to the pledge was passed UNANIMOUSLY by the congress, not just conservatives.
Report Post »MRjensee
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 5:11pmMost Athiests don’t worry about such things, these are obviously liberal athiests. Their mindset is to force everone else suffer to please themselves.
Report Post »pamela kay
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 6:41pmAmen
Report Post »davidp4660
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 7:08pmAgreed. It’s either that, or don’t be hypocritical and use US currency, becasue it still has “In God We Trust” on it. You want all of God out of your life? Then by all means, turn in your money in. I haven’t seen one true atheist denounce his/her money. Until that happens, they are nothing but hypocrites.
Report Post »Obamammy
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 7:25pmHow much you wanna bet, being that this is Phaggachusetts, that John and Jane doe are actually John Doe and John Doe? Hoarding the boys in question until they are ripe to sell to the other John Doe’s.
Atheists are funny little creatures.
Report Post »Quack Addict
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 7:59pmAtheism is a mental disease. These dopey little people are tying up our court system and acting like whiny little 2 year olds. Seriously, why does the minority always try and push their agenda on the majority of people in America? Let’s vote on it…oh yeah…that doesn’t work well for gays or atheists.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 8:39pmThe Supreme Court will do the same thing they did last time and not choose to hear the argument.
They know it’s unconstitutional to have the words “under God” but they know the religious people will throw a hissy fit if it gets removed.
Again, it wasn’t added until the 50s so please stop with this “tradition!“ or ”Christian nation!” garbage.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 8:46pm@QUACK ADDICT
It didn’t work for black people or women for the longest time either.
The Constitution is designed to keep the minority free from the tyranny of the majority.
Oh and whoever the idiot that said, “until an Atheist turns in their money, they’re a hypocrite” is a hilarious moron. Way to make a completely ridiculous and incoherent argument to try to make some asinine point.
Report Post »commonsensefreethinker1
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 8:49pm@bluebonnet
Report Post »First of all the commonsense and fact is that god and gods were thought to exist way before this country (The U.S.) was even touched by a human. I don’t give a flying $uck what it says on a piece of paper or what you believe what is written. Your jesus and your god storybook was created in the middle of a frickin dessert by people who today without electricity, guns, and automobiles still live as they did 3000 years ago. I mean really what have they invented in the past 100 years? and then compare it with the U.S. DUH! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. and you want people to believe in what a bunch of delusional camel and sheep hearders with heat stroke have to say,PLEASE! I am so sorry that you have to live a lie that was created so long ago that you cannot even think for yourself any more. jesus is not your answer to life and death he is only the death that blinds you of reason and truth. I know people that say jesus helps me through the day . well, what I say is so does coffee,sex,and booze. The best part is I can taste and feel all three as jesus is just a word and an excuse.
DWilliams08
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 9:40pm“Under God” (note that it is capitalized), was added by an act of congress in 1954. This puts it on very loose constitutional ground as the first amendment says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”. An act of congress is by definition the making of law. However, cases like this are a waste of the court’s time and my taxes.
Report Post »stumpy68
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 12:15amIf they truly don’t believe in God the the only
Report Post »concern should be the 1.5 second wast of time
each day its called common courtesy tell your children
they can skip the under god part but remain quiet out of respect
for those who do believe the same way id respect an atheist
belief in the lack of anything by not preaching to them
if asked not to.
ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 12:51am@STUMPY68
You are completely missing the point.
I am courteous and respectful when I hang out with religious friends. When they pray before a meal, I remain silent and still(granted I don’t close my eyes or mumble any thoughts in my head).
When I was a groomsmen in my friends wedding, I was polite and bowed my head(to not mess up any potential photos) but again, didn’t close my eyes or mumble any thoughts in my head.
But when you’re including the word “God” into a public declaration of patriotism, that oversteps the boundaries. As someone else said, this was voted on by our Government. It is put into our countries patriotic songs(and declarations of allegiance) AFTER the fact of their creation. It is put on our dollar bills after the fact and spread as a motto of our nation “In God We Trust.”
Again, these are faith based declarations, put in place by our Government that are then deemed to apply for all US citizens.
So when you say “be respectful” I say be respectful of history, tradition and stop condoning Government intervention in dealings of faith.
Report Post »A Edwards
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 3:42amThis is a nation of people and country is above God when we talk about the safety of our nation. To those who disagree I ask; If God seems to favor another country, do you take arms against the U.S.? If your answer is ‘yes’ shouldn’t YOU be asked to leave rather than us?
Wake up? To what? To your version of reality?
Lastly, a Creator doesn’t limit the idea to God, Allah, or anything else. It could be a speck of dust, a lightning bolt, or a big bang that gave us our equality. You act like your listening to a song, and saying that since it reminds you of your situation, it was written about you – so no one else can listen.
Quit being so dang selfish, Christians – or give us Atheists our own country and take out the parts of the Constitution you don‘t like when we’ve left. If Jews get Isreal, then we can have a country too. If you don’t want us around, we’d be happy to leave you to your fundamentalism.
Report Post »tradexpertbuysell
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:20amI think it’s time for an awakening in America that will topple the enemy to religious freedom that was establishied almost one hundred years ago.
Let’s pray and turn from our wicked ways that instead of the progressives celebrating their 100th birthday that they will be mourning their death instead. In Jesus’ name.
And all GODs’ people said, “Amen!”
Report Post »davecorkery
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:08amThis is not the first nor the last challenge to fixing the PoA. The one good thing about this is that we atheists only have to get lucky once, you guys have to get lucky every time. Faith is no reason.
Report Post »zman85
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 12:00pmI think that maybe we should make a mutual agreement. once we can get all the crap that they teach in schools about evolution, big bang theory and such out of the text books, then maybe we will take that out of the pledge. they complain about “under God” in the pledge, yet the public school systems teach theorys like they are fact, and never mention the alternative that I and most others in the country believe because they are not alowed. As far as the separtation of religion and state, it works both ways.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 12:15pmzman85 – Most others in this country do not support creationism. Not only do a majority of people support evolution and the big bang, but an overwhelming majority of biologists support evolution and an overwhelming number of physicists support big bang cosmology. This is science, not religion. We teach science in science classrooms. And fortunately, the courts agree.
Report Post »IIIcorp
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 3:05pmLet’s try this. Have the government make a separate for of money without ‘In God We Trust’ on it so the atheist are not offended. That would be valued at 2% of the ‘In God We Trust’ currency. Let’s see how long they protest indoctrination.
Report Post »AlcoholicMB
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:06pmGo do research on who came up with the Pledge of Allegiance, and you might just rethink having it in schools at all.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:17pm@ZMAN85
That’s because “creationism” isn’t based in science.
Creationism is about having an already preset ideas of how the earth came to be and then fitting already accept scientific principles into that view.
If there was a scientific breakthrough that countered what was taught in the Bible, as a creationist you would have to reject the science, and keep your faith. I’m sorry, but that’s just not what science is about.
Also, in 2007 50% of Americans answered “True” to the question, “The sun orbits the earth and takes 365 days to do so” Should we teach “both sides” in this debate?
The purpose of education is to overcome ignorance, not to validate it.
You also don’t fully understand what the term “theory” is. Gravity is a theory, do you still say it’s not a proven fact?
Report Post »Carlinpa
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:41amChalk one up for Massachusetts! Thanks God! Notice all the atheist always claim their main injury is
Report Post »“feel”? they feel excluded, their actually excluded. Someone should insist that their “feelings” don’t exist, can they prove it? LOL
Git-R-Done
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 10:58pmWho cares if they feel excluded. Nobody ever gave anybody the right to not be offended.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:38amMight I suggest this family home school if they don’t want their kids to repeat the pledge with “under God”. Also, I could be wrong here, but can’t you just tell your kids when that phrase comes up, don’t say it and then continue with the pledge. Just because your family does not recognize a higher power than you narcissitic special entitled brats is no reason to deny the rest of us who respect God and country from reciting the pledge as it currently stands.
Might I also suggest someone send this family the graduation speech by the princinipal (?) who spoke at graduation on “YOUR NOT SPECIAL”.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:46amgreat post! the only thing i would argue against is calling the kids spoiled brats. it could just be the parents making an attention grab and the kids themselves are embarassed. that aside, I fully agree! great to see an oppinion posted without any sweeping generalizations.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:52amOh, I was calling the parent and kids brats. The parents are the biggest BRATS. It won’t be long before those kids will be just like their parents.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:57am@ cofe – sadly, you are probably right.
Report Post »Bluebonnet
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:11pmThis is as bad and disgusting as the Principal in NY who wants to eliminate GOD BLESS THE USA from her school so it doesn’t OFFEND the little children. Give me a break.
That’s about like me moving to IRAN and asking them to stop praying out in the open 5X a day as it really offends me. ‘scuse me! Although I don’t agree with it, it’s their country and they can pray openly as often as they like, whether I am offended or not.
The same for America, the land of the Free, founded by Christians who were looking for freedom of religion and person freedom. If you don‘t like us worshiping God in song at the gov’t schools, get out and teach your own kids, or move the hell out of America, the Land of the Free for all who love America. It’s obvious, you Don’t love it here.
Report Post »Jilly33
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:02pmMight I suggest if you want religious creeds taught to your children you send them to religious school and not to public school?
Report Post »Grubmeister
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:24pmI’m curious, just how would you have responded to the same bile sent your prior to 1957, when the shoe was on the other foot.
Report Post »Do you think the pre 1957 pledge somehow discriminated against people who believed in god? Seems to me they always had the right to worship, they just didn’t have that one opportunity to put it on public display. Driving a wedge like that must’ve been quite satisfying to those who pushed the change. I just don’t understand why it was necessary or even allowed by the majority in power at the time.
In this instance, less is more. “One nation” speaks to more of us than “One nation, under god”. Keep in mind, we’re not illegal immigrant. We’re citizens, just the same as you.
goengo
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 6:06pm@COFEMALE: That was a wonderful graduation speech, wasn’t it? The speech was given by a high school English teacher.
Report Post »JediKnight
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 7:09pm@Grub: It was necessary because Communists were actively trying to undermine the country, except they were mostly from without, not within (like today). It’s even more necessary today.
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 8:55pm@Jilly – No – YOU leave. We had to leave Europe because of people like you. This is OUR country. You don’t like it YOU just go back to the mother country. They are post God now. Rot in hell with the rest of them.
Report Post »greatgrandma
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 5:33amWhy Atheist always use their children in this way? They can’t stand on their own merit? Do they realize in using their children they are setting them apart from the rest of the kids who will bully them, ostracize them from the group? Remember, the first person to do this,Madalyn O’hara, (spell check) who used her son for her agenda grew up to be a preacher. Totally denouncing her.
Report Post »IslandAtheist
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:34amRestore our Pledge http://youtu.be/33-5MbIE7eQ
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 1:06pmlove it. sounds so much better that way.
Report Post »HowTruthHurts
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 1:32pmRestore American History:
Declaration of Independence:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”
Out found fathers were INDEED believers in the “Creator”
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 2:03pmHOW – true. of course many denied an intervening God. and notice not a thing about Christianity or Jesus?
Report Post »HowTruthHurts
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 2:18pm@Philly
1 – apparently not enough (if any) founding fathers disagreed with an intervening God to appose this text. In fact, their is NO recorded history of an objection. Only mythology created by atheists.
2 – I NEVER stated in my post that they believed in Christ or Christianity. I only proved that this nation and all that she stands for was indeed based on the Creator weather atheists like it or not.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 2:28pmHOW – nothing in that text refers to an personal God, simply a generic Creator. i’m certain that the Barton followers will jump on this, but Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, and Washington were all deists. they had much contempt for organized Religion.
second, how can a Nation be “based on a Creator”? i’m not even sure what that means. if you mean Judeo-Christian values, there is some merit in that. but ultimately, the US was formed as a secular government allowing for Religious freedom for all. that was the beauty in it. it was completely unique idea that government be impartial to Religion. now many Christians would like to eliminate that beautiful thing and have Christianity be in charge. that is sad.
Report Post »HowTruthHurts
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 2:52pm1 – Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, and Washington were NOT against organized religion. They were against RESTRICTIONS of religion. These men were not searching for freedom FROM religion but freedom OF religion.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”
2 – I honestly don’t see how this is complicated (all sarcasm aside). The above statement clearly states that the authority of our “unalienable Rights” (which rights are the very reason our nation was formed) are founded on the Creator. Thus, the basis (as in foundation) of our nation, justice system, and liberties are based on the Creator.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:02pmHOW – if that’s true, then why don’t we use the Bible instead of the Constitution? why don’t we have laws allowing for stoning people to death? why isn’t it against the law to work on Sunday?
allowing for “God Given Rights” is just a way of saying that all people should have certain liberties. these are not liberties that you will find in the Bible (word of God, right?). these are liberties that men have decided are important, despite the Bible’s teachings.
Report Post »Raven249
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:40pmJust a thought..
Third paragraph of the Massachusetts state constitution.
We, therefore, the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the great Legislator of the universe, in affording us, in the course of His providence, an opportunity, deliberately and peaceably, without fraud, violence or surprise, of entering into an original, explicit, and solemn compact with each other; and of forming a new constitution of civil government, for ourselves and posterity; and devoutly imploring His direction in so interesting a design, do agree upon, ordain and establish the following Declaration of Rights, and Frame of Government, as the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Article II. It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.
Report Post »http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/Constitution Plenty of God references for you there. Tell me again how is ‘under God’ is unconstitutional?
The Third Archon
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 4:23pmJust because the founding fathers may or may not have been deeply religious (there was diversity among them on the subject, as among any sufficiently large population) and may or may not have gone about non Establishment differently doesn’t mean A) That their religious beliefs were factually correct, or B) That their policies on religion were the most DESIRABLE policies on the subject
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 4:55pm@ Philly- George Washington was a deist? Then please explain to me his Thanksgiving Proclamation: “Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, TO OBEY HIS WILL, to be grateful for his benefits, AND HUMBLY TO IMPLORE HIS PROTECTION AND FAVOR– and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness.”
If our Founding Fathers were indeed deists or the original intent was to separate church and state then why did our government request for a day of Thanksgiving? I recommend reading the whole proclamation and then tell me that our Founders intended to keep Christianity separate from governing issues.
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 9:01pmOh Philly -We DID use the bible in our beginnings. Schools were only built to teach children how to read thebible. Harvard was a bible college.
Report Post »TEIN
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:33amDidn’t the USA start by groups leaving other countries to avoid this same type of attitude and control that the atheists present?? Atheism is the state religion that T.J. warned about…..Atheism do worship a God, but it is on the earth instead of heaven….
Report Post »Grubmeister
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:35pmI think you’re skewing your argument beyond recognition. They came here to escape oppression by England and the state religion.
Report Post »The problem many people are having here is that they’re stuck in the past. Trying to use people from 200 years ago to establish the way we should be today is a mistake. I believe most people who support linkage between church and state would be highly unhappy to find themselves transported back in time to live with the original settlers. If you believed differently than they, it could be a miserable experience. Roger Williams moved his bunch out for this exact reason.
Restraining ourselves from overreaching is not failure. It is good government.
From Virginia
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 9:31pm@Grub – And in the meantime you and your kind are making life a lving hell for those of us who believe. You accept islam everywhere (even closing down NY streets) yet you want crossed removed from war memorials, under God removed from the pledge and the creche from Christmas. Good lord – you suck te traditins and fun out of eveything that made us America. You Suck!
Report Post »GeorgeWashingtonslept here
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:32amWow, don’t these people have anything better to do with their money? I wonder what it actually cost them to take this to court………..?
Report Post »goengo
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 6:27pmI don’t know, but my first guess would be that the ACLU or an atheist organization provided legal counsel.
Report Post »Nevermind
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:29amAS i child i would refuse to say the pledge to to the words under god, school system and my family had a few battles over it but understood. I was rasied by a black jew from compton and a italian catholic from Brooklyn so religion is weird to me. It didnt mean i was less patriotic just that i didnt think my patriotism was based on god. I am a 3rd gen war vet so my family and i not only claim to be patriots but actually signed up to defend this country to dont start with this communist crap.
Besides… the original pledge had no mention of god and was only put in durin gthe cold war , fighting those godless communists. So why shouldnt it go back to the original?
Report Post »bcope01
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:35am“So why shouldnt it go back to the original?” Because you are in the minority. Good enough? Works for me.
Report Post »John 3:16
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:37amOur founders believed in GOD. That is good enough for me: They were wise men. Without faith in a loving and caring God we are reduced to animals of the worst kind. “In GOD we trust”
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:43amAnother reason in favor of school choice.
Open your own school, or home teach. It is only a problem because it is in a public school which has to please everyone – which mean no one is pleased.
I‘m pretty sure we don’t have a right to NOT be offended. I see advertisements for strip clubs, sex in TV, and Obama bumper stickers all around me which I find offensive. People use the Lord’s name in vain, which offends me. Oh well…
Get the government out of education.
Report Post »IslandAtheist
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:47amMost of our founding Fathers were deists from the age of reason, they didn’t believe in your intervening god.
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:53am@ Island
Everyone who worked to establish our country from the lowest slave to the highest politician is a founder of our nation. It’s silly to limit “founder” to those rich and free men who could spend time philosophizing about it.
Report Post »GeorgeWashingtonslept here
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:55amYep, your arse is in the minority. Nuf said.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:00pm@ISLANDATHIEST
That tired arguement has been disproven so many times that it’s barely worth replying to. Outside of Paine, name some of the deists founding fathers and I or the other Blazers will blow it up in about 30 seconds. sigh……
Report Post »Jessff00
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:17pmIslandAtheist…..MOST OF OUR FOUNDERS WERE NOT DIEST!!!! EDUCATE YOURSELF!!!…..lies liberals use to make things fit thier way. Did you know 26 of the founding fathers a christian siminary degrees????? http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html Here educate yourself with this link….
Report Post »Grubmeister
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:48pm@BCOPE01
Actually, I think you’ve made the most true, and useful, statement in this entire thread. It seems obvious the ongoing debate is not changing many minds. Perhaps raw brute political force is the only thing that will effect change.
I suggest anyone looking to restore the pledge to it’s pre-1957 form band together in a single organization. They might then be able to put enough pressure on congress to get the graffiti removed.
A good place to start would be:
http://www.Secular.org
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to point this out. I’ll mention your name if it ever comes up.
Report Post »goengo
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 6:36pmWhile I disagree that the Pledge should be returned to the original, I do not doubt your patriotism. And, thank you for your service to this great country!
Report Post »Listen_then_think
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:26amFinally some common sense! Atheists are not true atheists, they are sue happy, attention whores. Take away all the media and limelight and these spotlight hogs would disappear.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:36pmcmon cofe! why do atheists have to feel special? shouldn’t it be the other way around? I don’t mean this in a demeaning way, but if I thought i was worshipping the one true god who had great things in store for me i would certainly feel special. at present, I feel like just another person with responsibilities, goals, etc.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:24amAtheists are working overtime to get America from *under God* and His protection.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:36amimpossible and a completely useless statement. if your god has a plan, nothing the atheists or you do will make any difference whatsoever. nobody can change god’s mind, right? what are you worried about?
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:44amEver hear of Free Will?
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:49amGod has a plan, but we do not know when it will occur. Until that time actually happens, I will fight all you atheist out their until my dying breath. I get that you feel you are special and do not have to answer to anyone greater than yourself (narcissitic) and that your rules are the only rules you have to follow (arrogant), and that you could never possibly admit you could be wrong (pride).
I will make a win/win situation for you rather than a win/lose or lose/lose situation. I won‘t try to convert you to Christianity if you won’t try to prevent me from practicing mine.
FYI: neither one of us is special in each others eyes.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:52amfree will yes. but our free will has nothing to do with the machinations of gods plan. we can only effect each other, not the lord himself or his infallible plan (according to christian doctrine)
Report Post »whatthecrazy
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:53amMomrules i agree with you.I just don’t understand how some peoples minds work…………….
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:06pm@THEARBITOR
“if your god has a plan, nothing the atheists or you do will make any difference whatsoever. nobody can change god’s mind, right? what are you worried about?”
You are correct. I’m not worried about anything. You should be…….
Report Post »” And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
-Revelation 20:15
Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:07pmWhere are you finding “G-ds plan” in her original statement?
Report Post »Dale
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:24amI cannot be certain about Massachusetts’ constitution, but I believe that every states’ preamble mentions deity. If that is so (Mass) how could anyone use a state constitution to strike down “under God” from the pledge. Apparently, humanist does not equal rational.
Report Post »4GODUSAANDISRAEL
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:34amWhat about the states who’s mottos come straight from the Bible. Ohio’s state motto is “With God all things are possible”, It can also be found on Ohio’s official state seal.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:23amwasting all that time to get that removed? how about just sit down chill and not listen to it and let the folks do it.
Report Post »lisa2994
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:23amIf they do not want to hear it or say it let them leave the class room. Very simple!! But don‘t take away everyone else’s rights to say it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tired of hearing about all of this!
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:32amThat would make their children feel like outcast and damage their inner psyche, don’t you know.
Also, can you stop putting logic and common sense into your post. LOL.
Report Post »Tri-ox
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:21amThese stupid obamaturds should be flushed.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:34amno proof they support obama. atheist does not always equal liberal, believe it or not.
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:46amAtheist does not equal liberal, but it cannot equal conservative. Ergo….
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:48amArbiter,
Matthew 7:13-14 – “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.
There can be only one truth.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:47pmwhy can’t an atheist be conservative? you provide no evidence to support this claim. If an atheist believes in limited government, personal responsibility, and staunchly defends the constitution and the american way of life, why not? Not all atheists are the foaming-at-the-mouth maniacs who tear everyone else down every chane they get, nor do we all think anyone should have atheistic ideals jammed down the throats of believers. This atheist here agrees with the court’s decision.
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 1:01pmBecause conservatism necessarily admits to an objective morality as the basis for fiscal, political and social goals. Rejecting G-d is rejecting a referentially objective morality. Thus the atheist may admire conservatism, may even agree to the goals of conservatism as a matter of utility but they cannot be conservatives themselves.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 1:16pmChristianity has some examples of objective morality but so do dozens of other philosophies. Coveting, for example, is certainly not an example of an objective moral; it is glaringly subjective. Especially when propped up next to capitalism. Without coveting, capitalism falls. Ayn Rand herself referred to christianity as the kindergarten of communism. Now, who can i think of that was inspired by ayn rand…
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 1:50pmWhat do dozens of other false philosophies have to do with anything? As I mentioned Christ fulfilled the Messianic Prophecies. That is extremely precise and mathematically ironclad proof that Christianity is the One True Faith. That excludes any other competing religious or moral claims. Thus all moral statements that agree with the Judeo/Christian ethics are from the Judeo/Christian G-d. Simply recognizing the moral truth and enunciating does not require a knowledge of G-d.
Report Post »Capitalism does not require the immoral desire for other peoples property which is what covetousness as a moral concept is. Nor is Christianity synonymous with any political or economic system.
TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 2:10pmwarp says “Nor is Christianity synonymous with any political or economic system.” correct sir. not synonymous but in direct conflict.
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:15pmChristianity is founded on the fulfillment of Messianic Prophecies that provide an extremely precise and mathematically ironclad proof that Christ is the Messiah. Therefore all other religious claims are false. Capitalism does not rely on immorally desiring another persons property which is what it means to covet in the moral sense. Nor is Christianity synonymous with any particular political or economic system.
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 3:17pmI don’t understand what that statement is meant to convey.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 12, 2012 at 7:31amfulfilment of messianic prophecies? is anyone to take that seriously? “the beginning of my book says a messiah will be born, and then in the beginning of the second half of same text it happens!”
So, because in the beginning of the Star Wars saga they speak of a being conceived by the force and then that actually happens, that too is a mathematically ironclad faith as well, yes?
Report Post »TXGal
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:18amNon-believers are only those who refuse to know the truth.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:38amwhich truth? The catholic truth? Jehovah’s witnesses truth? muslim truth? perhaps scientology truth!?the truth hurts!
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:42amChristianity is the One True Faith as demonstrated by Christs fulfillment of Messianic Prophecy. There is only one truth and that is ours.
Report Post »PRESENTSOFMIND
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:46amThey will know the truth when they stand in judgement, unfortunately, it will be too late for them.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:50am@ warp : ours? the mormons or the baptists? or maybe the born agains or the catholics? what about greek orthodox? all of these christians have very different ideas of the truth.
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:00pmWe all believe Christ fulfilled Messianic Prophecy. Roman Catholics and Orthodox Catholics are the essentially the same faith, Mormons are not Trinitarian Christians and Baptists are Evangelicals. The difference is in our interpretation of Scripture, not it’s truth value.
Report Post »IslandMama
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:16amI fail to understand how someone else’s belief in something can offend someone who does not believe in that very same thing. If you don’t believe it exists, how can you be offended by the fact that others do? What are atheists so afraid of that they have to wage lawsuits … the wrath of God? Perhaps they should be.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:38amso gay marriage is fine by that logic, amirite?
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:49amRedefining marriage to include homosexual relationships is aq long way from mere belief or disbelief.
Report Post »lel2007
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:15amSounds likethis “family” has no need of God or Country. Betcha they‘d kick grandma from the train if they thought they’d get away with it.
Report Post »piper60
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:21amPerhaps a permanent vacation to the yukon.
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:42amwhat a leap! they like the pledge, just not the god part. relax.
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:13amWhy do these atheist litigants always insist n being anonymous? If they feel so strongly about it, then why hide behind their lawyer?
Report Post »TheArbiter
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:44am…says the anonymous poster.
Report Post »whatthecrazy
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:14pmBio are you anonymous because you are ashamed of your opinions or because thats what is the safe thing to do? I would say the latter however this family who wants to hide who they are know that they are going against the will of the majority.Atheism and its ilk are a definate threat to humanity no matter how they spin it.
Report Post »lel2007
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:11amAhhh, a family that prays together, stays ……. OH! never mind …..
Report Post »ZAP
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:09amHarden hearts working in Massachusetts
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:08amThank YOU, GOD! And, thank you court!!!
Report Post »sooner12
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:07amTo all you atheists out there………TOUGH
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:05amI am impressed that this court took this direction, but am even more impressed that it is in the state of Massachusetts.
Report Post »Bluebonnet
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 12:15pmAMEN! ‘scuse me for my vile language above, but I get so disgusted with others telling us how to worship in America, when others are allowed to do as theywish. Too passionate at times.
Report Post »FEISTY
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:01amGood!
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:01amGet rid of the pledge. PERIOD!
Free people do not need to declare and pledge their allegiance to their homelands everyday in schools.
The Pledge is very sinister and it was written by a socialist.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:07amThank you for your comments Madalyn Murray O’Hair.
Report Post »Dale
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:30amGet rid of MrButcher, period!
Report Post »4GODUSAANDISRAEL
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:31amI disagree with the pledge being sinister, i believe it is an affirmation of a person’s patriotism to our great country. However, he is correct, it was written by a Christian Socialist named Francis Bellamy in 1892. His original pledge read “I pledge allegience to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Later, under the leadership of the American Legion, and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changes were put into the pledge where it would then read “The flage of the United States of America” instead of just “my flag. In 1954, Congress (after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus for the change) added the words “under God” so it could be used as both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on June 11, 2012 at 11:00amThank you Middlesex Superior Court. It’s nice to know there is still some sanity in our court system.
Report Post »