Atheist Leader Cites Founding Fathers While Defending Demand for Removal of 10 Commandments in N.C.
- Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:16pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Earlier this month, The Blaze told you about a drama unfolding between the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), an atheist and freethinking group based in Wisconsin, and a local government in North Carolina. The non-believing group is demanding that officials remove a Ten Commandments plaque that is hanging in the Newland Town Hall.
(Related: Atheists Demand NC Town Remove Ten Commandments From Town Hall)
In an interview with the Avery Journal’s Matthew Hundley, FFRF’s co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor doubled down on the group’s stance, claiming that the Ten Commandments plaque “belongs in a church” or a private home.
Ten Commandments plaque (Image Credit: GoBlueRidge.net)
So far, though, the town has not complied with the demand and is carefully reviewing the group’s request. Currently, town officials are relying upon legal advice as they weigh the pros and cons associated with the plaque’s presence in the public building.
“Upon the advice of the town’s attorney we are not making any comments now,” claims Newland Mayor Valerie Jaynes.
When asked what would happen if the town refused to remove the plaque, Gaylor seemed more than confident.
“We are more optimistic than you. We are an educational group, a state/church watchdog,” she said. “We find that often (all that is needed is) a little bit of a wake-up call or a letter to public officials who are unknowingly or unwittingly violating the Constitution.”
Then, she proceeded to express her group’s stated successes at stripping Ten Commandments displays from public venues.
“We have had great success,” Gaylor explained. “We have removed 10 Commandments all around the country.”
Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation
Gaylor argues that McCreary County vs. ACLU, a 2005 Supreme Court case, already settled this matter in the atheists’ favor (you can read more about this case here).
“The government has no business telling you what god to worship, how many gods to worship or whether to worship any god at all,” she continued, railing against the presence of the religious document in the Newland Town Hall. “If you want to take the Lord’s name in vain in your own home, then go ahead. The government can’t tell you not to do that.”
Hundley, though, started getting into specifics. He asked Gaylor how she would feel if a religious item were present inside of a public employee’s office rather than in a highly-visible area. In this case, the atheist leader said she may still be opposed.
“That can be workplace discrimination if it is a government employee’s office,” she explained. “Sometimes, you see things like a tiny nativity scene on somebody’s personal desk, but if they are dealing with the public or a lot of employees, that is still a no-no because that is still private property using the city to promote their viewpoint.”
Of course, she ended by claiming that the founding fathers would have never wanted such displays.
“We have no Ten Commandments in our foundational documents, in our Constitution,” she said. “Our founders did not want religion and government to mix.”
This interview follows a Feb. 7 letter that was written to the town by FFRF staff attorney Patrick Elliot. In it, he said, in part, “I’m writing…to urge you to immediately remove the Ten Commandments plaque from Newland Town Hall…Anyone entering the building for necessary government business will be confronted by it.”
(H/T: Avery Journal)
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Comments (186)
Abraham Young
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:53pmLet’s get our story straight here. Communists hate religion, and so do liberal Democrats. They can’t stand to see Christians enjoying their liberty. It interferes with the agenda of the shadow government that we rally around our religion and our patriotism.
Parents, teach your children well. Don’t let them grow up to be liberals.
I will pray for these, our enemies, who seek to remove us from the nation, who seek to belittle us, to betray us, to trample on our rights. I pray for their kingpin, the Big BO, who is a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Isnt’ the Bible right on this , that in the last days perilous times would come? That grievous wolves would enter in among us, not sparing the flock? The flock is the minds of our children.
Look in 1 Samuel 13 where the Israelites had to go to the Philistines to sharpen their weapons.
The Ten Commandments are our weapons. Our children are our weapons. The Philistines are the atheist teachers in our school who give our children a secular education which is hostile to religion. Christianity is our weapon, and FFRF is a Philistine organization dedicated to removing religion’s influence on our government.
When they have lost all morality do you think they will hesitate to draw the sword of government upon us?
Report Post »AJAYW
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:56pmWell stated
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:23pmThat was well said. When Jesus calls his flock, they will come out of the face of Babylon into themselves high in the mountain not carved by hands neither of the planet. Your not there right now because they have imprisoned you in Babylon.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:25pmAnd then they will encamp all about that beloved land and fire will come down out of Heaven to devour them.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:40pmWhat is fire? Well it will be like fire. For the same reason Moses went up on the mount without the children of Israel because they would surely die. As I said the Book of Revelation is unto Blazon of Heraldry. That fire that comes down will be the Face and word of God, and they will be devoured.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 8:05pmHere’s a question I have, why do so many other people seem to know that the mountains spoken of in the Bible are large numbers of people, except most Americans? It‘s because you are too busy with your idols that’s why, and you don’t even listen to song lyrics. Even John Denver knew, and that why at min 3:10 of “Rocky Mountain High” he sings, “Why they have to tear the mountains down to bring in a couple more, more people, more scars upon the land…..”
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP7Chi9MPSg
lukerw
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 8:56pmPeople ignorant of History… just assume that Christians are Cowards. History cites that is a BIG Mistake!
Report Post »erasmus48
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 10:04pmAtheism is a religious belief, as are monotheism, pantheism, and polytheism. So why is it when issues of religion come before the court, it always decides in favor of atheism? Would this not be the establishment of atheism as a state religion?
The solution is implied in the First Amendment. Issues of religion are a local matter, not a federal matter. The decision should be made by a vote of the people affected.
We need to be vocal and defend that our religious rights are just as valid as those of the atheist!
Report Post »MammalOne
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 10:06pmlol
Report Post »Amos37
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 10:12pmWhat doesn’t make sense is that atheists have more power (being fools because only a fool says in their hear ‘there is no God’) than those who wish to promote the Word of God. Jesus said not to hinder then children from coming to him, because the children need to learn about God the most. Train a child in the way he shall go and he will not depart from it when he is older.
Report Post »Be an example, prove you love God, study His Word EVERY DAY!
They SMEAR what they FEAR
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 10:45pmHere someone making an honest effort to find TRUTH. Check it for yourself
http://www.monumentalmovie.com/
Report Post »MammalOne
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 11:18pm@AMOS
What are you talking about? How do athiests have all the power? Do you know of a single athiest president – let alone military commanders or federal representatives? We have “In God We Trust” on our MONEY. Athiests represent a minority in this country. The vast majority of americans identify as christian. It‘s pretty hard to pull off being a helpless victim when you’re the ruling majority.
Report Post »BestComment
Posted on February 23, 2012 at 7:26pmHow would you like it if a predominately Muslim town put up Islamic stuff in a Government building. Bet you would freak out. There are many different religions in the US and ALL of them should stay out of Government buildings. By doing this, we protect all religious beliefs.
Report Post »jimv2000
Posted on February 23, 2012 at 9:49pmOh, the poor Christian majority in this country ;_; The rest of us fight to keep them from trampling all over us and they have the gall to cry about persecution.
Report Post »1ClassicLiberal
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:48pmErasmus48 you are correct, a State Religion has been established. Not by Congress as the Founders foresaw but by the Judiciary through legislation by adjudication. The United States Church has many sects including Atheism, Secularism, Humanism, Communism, Naturalism, etc., that all have one common tenet, they are all Anti-Christ. The power of the United States Church is derived from their high priests sitting on the benches of the highest courts in the land blatantly ruling against the Constitution. It is a very well funded Church with a vast organization of crusaders such as the FFRF and the ACLU for whom eradicating Christian symbolism is what they do, that’s all they do. As you say, it‘s time to get out and stand up for what’s right.
Report Post »slowprop26
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:33pmAny of you christians read that bit in the bible about Moses being responsible for the mass genocide of the Midianites.He ordered the mass slaughtof all but the female childrenand .virgins “But all the women, that have not knowna man by lying with him, keep alive for youreselves”(31:18). Bet you lot don’t often get that recited toi your congregration too often. The bloke is the sort of hypocrite that makes his teaching a bit of a sick joke. As for that scizso Abraham- he would have been sectioned
Report Post »Ralpie
Posted on April 29, 2012 at 3:21pmCommunists loved religion..it kept these sheep in line!
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:47pmThese crazy atheists scream “Separation of Church and State” when it’s nowhere to be found in the Constitution. And Thomas Jefferson wrote “Separation of Church and State” in a letter to a Dunesberry Baptist Church, who was concerned over the government adopting an official state religion like the Church of England.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:30pmOK, could you now point the parts of the constitution that affirm the Christian nature of the United States?
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:49pmAmendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
Report Post ».
El Pistoffo
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 10:09pmAmendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
.
A plaque is just that, a plaque. It is not a law. I see no constitutional violation. No where in the amendment above do I see the phrase “ separation of church and state”. That’s total horse **** interjection by ass clowns whom wish it were the case.
Report Post »kfalcon22000
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 11:13pmThe first and second amendments list the unalienable rights that come from God, according to the Declaration of Independence. We have to right to worship any God, any time, any where, and any way according to our personal faith. The government does not have the right to interfere with us. By telling us that we can’t bring our faith into a government building or public school, the government is violating the First Amendment.
Not only that, but Congress leads its order of business each day with a prayer. So does the Supreme Court. If you know your history, Ben Franklin recommended that the Congress lead with prayer whenever Congress comes together, beginning in the Constitutional Convention. After making that famous speech, that had bible studies several times a day. Makes it pretty hard to believe what the atheists want us all to believe. THEY ARE JUST WRONG AND IGNORANT.
Report Post »Balpit
Posted on February 23, 2012 at 12:38pmIt‘s shameful how they twist the interpretation of Jefferson’s letter to the Dansbury Baptists, then use it to trump the Constitution.
Report Post »jimv2000
Posted on February 23, 2012 at 9:50pmThe phrase “separation of church and state” is not a specific quote from the Constitution. It’s a name we give to the proper application of the First Amendment.
Report Post »Abraham Young
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:45pmWe need to pepper our lawns with 10 commandment signs. We need them on every partriot’s lawn in America. On our Garage doors, on our front doors, on our trees.
I am sick to death of liars and atheists running our country.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:34pmwho’s preventing you from doing it? You can claim the US is a christian nation. But it has a secular government. You can build churches, express your faith freely and yes, plant the 10 commandments on your lawn. But in courts? Government buildings? Post Offices? Nope…
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:54pm@SoNick
It’s already been done, doofus! Take a trip to the Supreme Court building and see for yourself.
It’s always been okay, until atheists started to breed like rabbits. Now all of a sudden it’s not?
http://www.allabouthistory.org/separation-of-church-and-state.htm
Report Post »RIGEL_ORION
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 8:29pmIf the founders really thought religion being present within government was bad, why was the very first book they commissioned to be printed the Bible? They used US Treasury funds for it and none of the actual framers of the Constitution seemed to find anything wrong with it.
This systematic effort to purge religion from the public square is simply one more example of how evil truly functions. It seldom comes as a great enemy marching upon your home. Instead it takes something good and truthful and simply twists a part of it so slightly that it is very hard to tell the difference between good and evil, between right and wrong.
The separation of church and state was to keep the State out of the Church. The early Pilgrims were fleeing a government who used the Church as another extension of its power. The Anglican church didn’t run the Monarchy. It was the other way around.
So let’s call a spade a spade and this atheist effort what it is. Evil. It’s purpose is to continue to drive religion out of the public square, and to further create an atmosphere where citizens are afraid to ever speak of religion or right and wrong in public.
Think about it. People that have the courage to speak out about religion or have the temerity to state that people shouldn’t have babies out of wedlock are immediately and viciously attacked. Ex) Tebow was HATED by many people simply because he wouldn‘t keep his beliefs ’under a basket’. Hated – because of Jesus.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on February 23, 2012 at 7:15amwell of course it’s already been done. The reason you see more and more of these stories is not because athjeists are breeding like rabbits, but because people are realizing that religion is encroaching on public space it should not occupy. these symbols will be removed more and more. get used to it
Report Post »AJAYW
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:44pm@democritusoilder267
Report Post »I guess your just an IT then
democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:51pmI’m my own individual person. So, are you and everyone else. :)
Report Post »AJAYW
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:59pmTell me why do you hate religion so much are you a communists or did something in your life turn you away .
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:08pmNo, I’m not a communist or a capitalist or whatever. Like I said I’m my own person. For most of my life I had either identified as this or that. I been to churches, synagogues, and mosques. Thankfully people did respect me and my urge to understand more about Christianity, Judaism and Islam. The same can be said about all kinds of people I have met in my life. When I was younger I was a strong believer in Christianity. That was who I was in my teens. Then I feel like a huge weight. Everything turned ugly and I did become bitter. I started to identify as an atheist for a few years. Only one pastor and friend I still have contacts with. Years later I decided that I do believe in a God who is a like a supreme deity. I tried to get different religions and studied them. As time went by I started to learn from the skeptics on why all religion in man-made or influenced from other cultures, myth and legends, etc. Now, I see myself a deist. I just do not have the faith to be a Christian or a Muslim. I like to learn what different people believe but would never follow religion again.
Report Post »AJAYW
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:25pmWell I do respect you for you standing up and being yourself, however I don‘t think we have the right to tell other folks that they can or can’t believe. Do you understand that there is a movement to use religion as a wedge to devide our country. I assure you I am not a bible thumper, I do think that its peoples right to believe. I can not accept islam as a religion I think its a political movement that teaches hate and killing of others in the name of a (god). I don’t any god would do this. I welcome all others
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:36pm@DEMO That is good that you have studied other religions..you are not finished. Yawveh..Supreme and His Son Yeshuah created everything from the foundations of the world..they even created the angels..You say you do not have the faith to be a Christian.. you can pray for that faith..your prayer will be answered.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:49pmNo thanks. To me religion is all up to interpretation. I feel it is not going to hurt me if I do not follow this or that.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 8:07pm@DEMO… Evidently you have been searching..so you do care.. I suspect that you have not found a church where you feel the Holy Spirit of God.. when you find that church and my bet is that you will search until you do..you will not want to let go.. You can most probably just live out your life here in the flesh..but if you want to live forever in the heavenly kingdom.. you will seek it out and you will find it..Good luck..I am praying for you.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 8:21pmNo thanks. Church holds no importance in my life. As a deist I believe there is an afterlife. But I do not following a religion will lead me to a good afterlife.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 8:48pm@DEMO A religion will not lead you to a good afterlife..but believing that Jesus/Yeshuah is the only begotten Son of God..the one with God creating from the foundations of the world and who was born of woman..who was pure and without sin..who took the sins of the world upon His back..was crucified and rose the third day.and who sits at the right hand of God..and if we believe and live freely within His laws and love Him and are obedient..is the only way to an afterl ife beyond your wildest dreams..you cannot know real love until you know Him..any other way is separation from Him forever. We are not without the Holy Spirit of God right now.upon the earth .but there will come a time when the church will be removed from the earth..the days of tribulation it may be..and there will be many saved during that time and they will live into the millenial kingdom. But those people who will be saved will come into the knowledge of the saving grace of God..The ones who never believe will not be spared,,ether in this life or the life to come. Our only chance is while we are in our earth suits now..the day we draw our last breath will be our last.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 9:00pmNo thanks. I have no interest in the Christian faith. I can respect your views but they’re not for me. I do not need faith in my life or to worship something. In my book I believe there is a supreme deity who created all life in the universe. There is sound science and there are also mysteries. No one is perfect and there is no sin. But there are evils that many can commit; as well goods beings can help others and their environment. Which I believe will lead us to a great afterlife. Throughout the years I have come my own views in my life. I’m happy and wish the same for you.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 10:02pm@DEMO you seem to be a very kind person..I hope somewhere along the way..that you will join us in the kingdom of God..I hope something extraordinary happens for you and that you find Him..Blessings..
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:33pmSo, I’d like to see FFRF go after the Ten Commandments in the halls of the Supreme Court. They need to do that now and settle this once and for all. If the Supreme Court capitulates, then it becomes settled. Will some one file a suit against the Supreme Court using FFRF’s name and see how fast they back track saying they did not file the suit?
Report Post »stheide1
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:32pmFoxholeatheist
Please remove your head from your butt and clean the crap out of your ears. If you would do that you might be able to get something other then the lib talking points out. Just stating the facts.
Report Post »AJAYW
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:29pmDam Annie Laurie Gaylor looks like shes been road hard and put up wet in her picture.
Report Post »hatchetjob
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:22pmWhat is it with atheists and their neverending whining? Can’t they find something constructive to do with the short time they have on earth?
Report Post »Bill from NJ
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:37pmDon’t worry too much, I foresee them having all of eternity to openly complain while shoveling coal…
Report Post »where they are headed.
TJexcite
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:08pmShe might be right BUT the founder would have school and Church interchangeable and no state controlled schools. The state does not control the school so that the school is not a extension of the state.
Report Post »mycomet123
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:08pmWhat next? The removal of In God We Trust from our money?? That nasty three letter word that so many people have a problem with (including alot of so called Christians). “Were Christian but we just want God to get the Hell out of our government”????????????????? This IS NOT Christianity!!!!!!. The truth of the matter is that if everyone that “called themselves a christian” would make a STAND we wouldn’t be dealing with this issue right now.
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:52pmIt used to say “E Pluribus Unum.” What was wrong with that?
Report Post »momprayn
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:05pm“We are an educational group, a state/church watchdog,” she said. “We find that often (all that is needed is) a little bit of a wake-up call or a letter to public officials who are unknowingly or unwittingly violating the Constitution.”
Report Post »LOL – she is just showing her ignorance/stupidity/rebellion/troublemaking personality. If they are truly an “educational” group – they would have checked it out first about being unconstitutional don’t you think? (It’s perfectly constitutional) You are not declaring the state must have this “religion” (which is what church/state deal is about) when you put religious sayings, whatever out – anywhere. It was everywhere in our public buildings at the beginning until the atheists/libs started using the false twisting of “church/state” deal which they shouldn’t have been allowed to ever get away with. But we did and so now we face this stuff.
http://www.wallbuilders.com
Doesn’t take long to find out when you search for the truth..which they don’t.
Wha’ts disappointing is after all this time and so many similar cases, so many people still don’t know….no – the ones who have agreed to their false notices don’t do it b/c they are right. They comply b/c they are either ignorant/don‘t care and don’t want to bother with messing with it. Sadly, it then makes them look “right” and makes them continue even more. Shame on all those who do not fight this each and every time it happens.
MATT IN MN
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:04pmThe founders wanted freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. There is a huge difference. “of” means you can practice it. “from” would mean you can’t. I don’t understand why they feel they should push their values (or lack there of) on us and tell us what we can’t do while we let them do whatever they want (as long as they don’t break they law). If they don’t believe that is their choice. If I do that’s mine.
Report Post »kfalcon22000
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:10pmThey push atheism because they are very zealous for their religion. Remember that the Supreme Court determined that atheism is a religion. Hence, by pushing atheism in schools and public buildings, the government is creating a national religion.
Report Post »TexBork
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:03pm“Our founders did not want religion and government to mix.” Really? If I’m not mistaken, the whole Constitution was founded on religious principles. Still, I’ve not heard all the prayers our leaders have offered up to God in the House and Senate, but I’ve not heard yet the prayer that religion would never have influence the morals of our laws and government, but rather our law should be based on the fallicy of man over the infinite wisdom of God. I do know that the national socialists have always removed religion from society and even from the schools and based everything on secularism. Germany did the same thing when they started turning against the Jews just as the left is in the US now as they support the “social justice” demands of the radical Islamic Muslim Brotherhood does and they do the insurgent Occupiers in the US trying to overturn western capitalism.
Report Post »kangaroo
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:50pmLambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and three were Roman Catholics (C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.
A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[14][15][16] (who created the so-called “Jefferson Bible”) and Benjamin Franklin.[17] A few others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.[18]
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:57pmYes, many of our Founding Fathers were Christians and members of various churches. Some were deist. I feel that many didn’t want a official church or religion for the country. Earlier in our birth we were more welcoming to Christianity in the government and schools. But as America progressed and people of all faiths and what not it has become unpopular to have Christianity in the classrooms or in government. Personally I feel keep religion in privet homes or in the temples.
Report Post »kfalcon22000
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:00pmHow anti clerical do you think that Ben Franklin was? He was the one who suggested, at the Constitutional Convention, that the Congress start its proceedings each day with prayer. This still occurs in the Congress each time that they convene.
Report Post »kfalcon22000
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:03pmThomas Jefferson was so anti-clerical that as President, and head of the Washington D.C. schools, he selected the bible as an official school text.
Report Post »kfalcon22000
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:07pmLet us not forget that Christianity is not a religion. All religions at that time for based in Christianity. What they meant by the Freedom of Religion clause in the First Amendment, was that the government could not interfere with anyone’s religious faith, with the most dangerous part being if the government decided to make one of the established denominations into the national religion.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:15pmName the ones who were Deist Demo, so we know you aren’t blowing smoke out your ___________.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:27pmDidn‘t you read Kangaroo’s comment? He listed Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and a few others as deist. On a list from Wikipedia Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, and James Madison are listed as deist. Personally I feel we need respect in this country. Maybe study your faith on break. Let the government solve its own issues. I love this quote by George Carlin: “I’m completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.”
Report Post »selectedpete
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:08pmThat someone calls a founder “deist” does not make them so (even in Wikipedia, which is no final arbiter of these discussions). “Deist” has been thrown around for decades as some sort of conversation stopper when talking about founders such as Jefferson and Franklin, but you have to take their lives, sayings and writings in totality, and in context to discern where they were coming from. Atheists don’t like context WRT founders because it screws up their side of the debate.
Jefferson certainly had his issues with some of the Bible, and there is no dispute there, really. What is interesting to me is that even Jefferson would be counted as much more pro-Christian than any current “Christian” legislators today. Consider carefully that Jefferson not only attended church regularly in the US Capitol (oh the humanity) with his family, but he also advocated Tax money and US resources to hire ministers to teach Scripture to the Indians and to build churches for them.
Here, he writes to Benjamin Rush (another ardent, outspoken Christian founder): “My views…are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others.” –Thomas Jef
Report Post »KickinBack
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:46pmFrom the Constitution, Article VII
“…done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the states present the Seventeenth day of September in THE YEAR OF OUR LORD one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven…”
Emphasis added. Just wanted libs to know they ain’t talking about Obama when it says Lord.
Report Post »The American People
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:00pmWell said! I would like to add for the liberals and the Atheist Progressives that “Freedom FROM Religion” is not reading things that are religious or keeping your mouth shut when people sing songs or pray. The Ten Commandments plaque isn’t forcing you to look at it, or believe it for that matter. This and every case like it simply requires some common sense. I hope the Judges don’t do something irresponsible and give these value wreckers their way. American core values are at stake.
Report Post »jimv2000
Posted on February 23, 2012 at 9:52pmSo you’re telling me that the Founding Fathers established the US as a Christian nation just by adding the date on to the end in the traditional manner? HA HA, that‘s about the flimsiest support I’ve seen.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:38pmPeople still don’t get it. Why can spiritual people leave atheists alone in their beliefs, but Atheists can’t leave spiritual people alone? Because the darkness doesn’t understand the light, you frighten them. And Atheists want to cheat people out of remembering any part of a past life other than whoring after women. Because the Commandments of God will teach people to find other non-earthly things more exhilarating which will carry over into the next life. That’s why people have to be born again to acquire the kingdom of heaven. That‘s why there’s porn everywhere. They want people to carry porn over to their next life.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:42pmYou know the part in Genesis when God tells Noah all the beasts of the field will have the dread of Noah? That’s not just animals, but it’s Atheists too.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:42pmYou call people telling me that I‘m going to get tortured for an eternity in hell if I don’t believe in a God as “being left alone?”
You call turning on the TV and hearing constant talk of Satan and God from PRESIDENTIAL candidates as “being left alone?”
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:44pmNo God isn’t going to torture you, you will torture yourself with complete utter dis-contentedness. It will seem as if it is a sea of fire.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:46pmSee, Atheists are on a sea of fire, and they burn intensely over anything spiritual, because they fear the spiritual while in their burning discontent.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:50pmI think it‘s time to call a duck a duck don’t you think? I mean unless you want to be a falling star.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:52pmLol, so funny.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:56pmModerationIsBest,
Report Post »Really, is it funny, or maybe you are just detracting. The things I speak are more mainstream than you know. You may recall a certain Presidential Candidate calling himself “The cream that rises to the top.”
FoxholeAtheist
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:57pmWhen you start leaving science, billboards, reproductive rights, my doorbell on a weekend, and other people’s children alone, we will leave you alone.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:58pmFoxholeAtheist,
Report Post »It doesn’t matter to me because when plagues riddle the earth, after, you’ll never be human again.
FoxholeAtheist
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:01pmI don’t think you have a very good grasp on either science or reality.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:01pm@Tim: what are you talking about? Atheist do not believe in the bible or even god.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:03pmTim, I’d say you read too much science fiction, but then I’d be making a statement about your reading habits that probably are pretty far off the mark.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:06pmdemocritusoilder267,
Report Post »It is written that the Lord reaps where he hasn’t sown.
Itsjusttim
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:09pmOnly a fool says in his heart he has no father.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:11pmHey MOD,
How much evil does one need to accept, before he or she reaches the state of moderation that is best?
IYHO
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:39pmMODERATIONISBEST Says:
“You call people telling me that I‘m going to get tortured for an eternity in hell if I don’t believe in a God as “being left alone?”
Mod, we have been through this before. No one is chasing you around telling you these things, unless you instigate it.
And if you are going to once again make the claim that it is your “freinds” that keep hounding you with statements, I am going to once again tell you that you need some new freinds.
You must be able to find at least a couple of atheists near by that you would consider “friend worthy”
No?
This persecution act of yours is becoming quite tiresome.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:45pm@Tim
“Really, is it funny, or maybe you are just detracting. The things I speak are more mainstream than you know. You may recall a certain Presidential Candidate calling himself “The cream that rises to the top.”
”
I was laughing at the hypocrisy of your entire argument that you seem to miss.
You stated off by asking why can spiritual people leave Atheists alone, but atheists can’t leave spiritual people alone?
I countered by showing you ways that I’m NOT left alone by religious people and then you go on about how atheists are “burning in a sea of fire over anything spiritual.”
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 8:09pmMOD,
Here’s your quote from above.
“You call turning on the TV and hearing constant talk of Satan and God from PRESIDENTIAL candidates as “being left alone?”
Is that what you were referring to when you said this just now…….
“I countered by showing you ways that I’m NOT left alone by religious people”
Are you serious? First of all, I would like to see some proof that any politicians are talking about satan on TV.
Sure, some are talking about GOD, but are they looking directly at you and saying……..”MOD, you are going to be punished for an eternity, now shut up while I stuff this theocracy down your throat.” ?
No, I don’t think so. Just more of your whining.
So what I take from your post is that you will not be happy until the word “GOD” is banned from even being uttered on TV or radio, or even printed on a page you might just happen to see somewhere, sometime.
Seems almost like you want the whole idea of religion to be forever stricken.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 23, 2012 at 2:55pm@ModerationIsBest:
I suppose it depends on how you see “being left alone”.
Now it seems you see being left alone as never having to hear or see something ever again, and if that‘s the case then no you won’t be left alone. However, I see “being left alone” as me being able to do what I please without it being impeded on.
As such, I would never oppose Atheists or Christians buying billboards or talking on tv just so I don’t have to hear certain things.
@foxholeatheist:
By “leaving science alone” do you mean that Christians should get out of science? By “billboards” do you mean you oppose our rights to purchase certain goods or services? By “reproductive rights” do you mean rights for the woman but not for the man or child? By leaving “my doorbell on the weekend” do you mean you would rather have them knock or do you mean your to cheap to buy a “No Soliciting” sign? By “other people’s children alone” do you mean….what do you mean exactly?
Report Post »let us prey
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:35pmCarlin said
Report Post »“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post ‘Thou shalt not steal,‘ ’Thou shalt not commit adultery,‘ and ’Thou shalt not lie’ in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”
Countrygirl1362
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:44pmSo very true.
Report Post »jackbauer2012
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:32pmReally! Using the founding fathers to prove we should have any symbols of God in our Country. Is she talking about the same founding fathers who were excited to use the Capital Building as a church during the weekend.
Report Post »JP4JOY
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:30pmIf the founding fathers didn’t want religious symbology to be part of the national creed they would not have put it on almost every statue, monument, entry way to almost every judicial space in the country. The FFRF needs to be sued for wanton desecration of public spaces and made to return all those who they have affected to their original state at their own expense.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:04pmShow me where in the Constitution it says we are a Xtian nation.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:44pm@FOXHOLE
Does it really need to spelled out for you?
Are you incapable of connecting the dots?
How much actual evidence do you need?
Would you like to see it “WRITTEN IN STONE” ?
Sheeeeesh……..kids these days…….I tell ya……….
Report Post »jimv2000
Posted on February 23, 2012 at 9:55pm@Foxhole – The Christians seem to think that if they act indignant enough about your question, somehow it will answer itself. The facts are the facts, and the fact in this case is that the only religious references in the Constitution prohibit a religious test for someone running for office and prohibit the government from being involved with religion.
Report Post »kangaroo
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:29pm*******, take on muslims if you dare.
Report Post »kangaroo
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:32pmLove the little star thing they insert when they think you are swearing, gives you lot more freedom of choice to which profanity you wish to use instead. Mine was mild refering to cats crikeys
Report Post »let us prey
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:38pmKangaroo
Report Post »They will never take on the mooselimbs. The atheist argument is, they think it is implied that it includes all religions. They are cowards and will never call them out. I had a discussion with an atheist and that was his take.
BurntHills
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:28pman atheist screams louder than anyone else on the battlefield for God or Jesus to save them after they are shot.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:31pmProof?
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:01pmReally? And you’ve heard these Atheists screaming on the battlefield?
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:26pmI can agree with the FFRF on this topic. Our laws allow us to have freedom of religion but not one government religion.
Report Post »Joshua7
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:10pmHow is putting the Ten Commandments on a wall creating a government religion?
Can you also tell me what, exactly, our laws are based on, if not in part the Ten Commandments and Judeo-Christian values?
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:16pmWould you be offended if there was a plaque dedicated to Islam or any other religion? Any religion has no relation to government.
Report Post »AJAYW
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:33pm@democritusoilder267
Report Post »Your just another one of useless obama liberal idiots.
Joshua7
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:37pmI’ll repeat myself: Can you also tell me what, exactly, our laws are based on, if not in part the Ten Commandments and Judeo-Christian values?
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:38pmI’m neither a liberal nor did I ever vote for President Obama. To me President Obama is crooked like every other politician.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:48pmAre laws are based on from various sources. The Founding Fathers and early Americans didn’t just copy American law and democracy from the Christian bible. To me the United States is not a Christian nation; but we have Christian ancestry. The Founding Fathers and early Americans wanted freedom of religion and a just government. No one wanted a official church or religion. But our government did allow people to openly practice their faith. So, I can guess we can both agree that American does in fact have Christian roots but we’re not a Christian nation. The link I included will go over the influences of American government and law.
Report Post »http://mysite.verizon.net/cronalds/11th%20Grade%20PDF%20Files/Chapter%205%20Notes.pdf
Abraham Young
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:57pmWe are a christian nation:
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=23909
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:01pm@ABRAHAM YOUNG: I respectfully disagree with the United States being a Christian nation. Our nation is secular but we have a Christian heritage. Now, now before you or anyone else thinks I lost my mind think about our history. As America progressed into a more multicultural country. We lost favor with the Christian tradition based in our government, schools, etc. You can still see people practicing prayer, reading religious text or even Presidents being sworn in on the bible. The latest being President Obama who is a Christian. I feel fundamental Christians want a theocracy based of their view of Christianity. Which our Founding Fathers and early leaders wanted to avoid.
Report Post »Joshua7
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:11pmYes, it’s true that Greek and Roman governments and philosophy influenced the founders but my point is it, there was more to it. The founders also drew ideas from the ideas, principles and stories that christianity teaches.
The founders even wanted to inshrine that influence on the official seal of the United States. The commitee consisting of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and even Benjamin Franklin, recomended originally that one side of the seal portray the Israelites being led through the wilderness by God’s pillar of fire. The only reason it was rejected was because it was too complicated to put on a small seal.
So if the same founders who created the constitution would’ve put that on the seal, why would they want the Ten Commandments taken down from government buildings?
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:21pmTimes change. Christianity and all religion is becoming a hot topic and unpopular. The Constitution is up to interpretation in trying to see what is legal or against the laws of the country. I believe earlier in our countries’ birth Christianity was practiced; regardless of denomination or group by the majority of Americans. Going to church, bible and prayer in school, etc. In fact many Christian religions like Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses were founded in the U.S. I believe. But as we got older and new and new immigrates brought in their religions or people converted to new religions the practice Christianity became more common with church attendance. We became more and more secular as the years went by. Do you agree?
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:50pm@DEMOC
Ahhhh, so now we see where you are truly coming from.
Times change, do they?
Becoming unpopular, huh?
Up to interpretation?
What a tool you are.
Report Post »Joshua7
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 7:54pmYes, it’s true. Our culture and our government has gotten more secular as time goes by. I think lies about the founders and our history is a large part of that. I also think that becoming more secular and ignorant of chistianities infuence on our government and over all society has not been a good thing.
Which brings me to my over all point about the Ten Commandments: Having them there is a recognition of our Judeo-Christian roots and, yes, even an encouragement to return to those ideals and principles that made us great. There is nothing in the constitution, by the founders intent, that prohibits that message.
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 8:26pmWhat one government religion does the 10 commandments endorse? Besides Judaism and Catholicism there are over 5000 protestant churches (Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc). Your comment doesn’t address this and like the atheists seem to lump all Judeo-Christians into one nebulous blob. In other words, it’s a nonsensical argument.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:26pmWhy are liberal atheist women always so ugly? Oh that’s right, that’s WHY they are liberal atheists!
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:28pmEh? I find Healthyaddict and Sarah Moglia very cute.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:33pmWhat does a woman’s looks have to do with her stance on this issue?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 23, 2012 at 9:40amCan’t forget about zomgitscriss, right democritusoldier. :-)
And, blackhawk1, I have seen PLENTY of “ugly” christian women. What you have said is ridiculous.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:24pmobviously the obamacommunists have never studied the Founding Fathers… who had prayers at the start of every session.
Report Post »Robert-CA
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:22pmThe Founding Fathers protected Religion from any Government control .
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 5:40pmIndeed.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:00pmThe founding fathers were Freemasons.
Report Post »Joshua7
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 6:13pmExactly. The first amendment is very specific about what the government can’t do. It can’t make an official state religion. It says nothing about putting up the Ten Commandments on the wall of a government building.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 23, 2012 at 2:16am@FOXHOLE
And the democrats of today are FREELOADERS
So what’s your point?
Report Post »