Atheist Richard Dawkins Bashes Romney & His Mormon Faith: Joseph Smith Was a ‘Convicted Conman Using Magic Hat to Read Gold Plates’
- Posted on August 9, 2012 at 7:32am by
Billy Hallowell
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Atheist scientist Richard Dawkins (AP)
On Wednesday, atheist leader and evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins took aim at Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney’s faith.
Following a gaffe in which the candidate confused Sikh (a non-Muslim religious adherent) with Sheikh (an Islamic religious leader) during a commentary about the tragic shooting rampage at a temple in Wisconsin last Sunday, Dawkins seized upon the opportunity to lambaste Romney’s The Church of Latter-Day Saints (LDS) membership.
The mistake between Sikh and Sheikh was made while the GOP candidate was speaking at a fundraiser in Iowa, The Hill reports. Romney used the latter word while speaking about the victims who fell prey to the deadly attack. The Republican’s exact comments were as follows (emphasis added):
“I was in Chicago earlier today. We had a moment of silence in honor of the people who lost their lives at that sheikh temple. I noted that it was a tragedy for many, many reasons. Among them are the fact that people, the sheikh people are among the most peaceable and loving individuals you can imagine, as is their faith.”
It was this verbal slippage that Dawkins used as a prime opportunity to bring Mormonism into the fold.
“Romney confuses Sikh with Sheikh,” Dawkins tweeted, going on to tie the oral mistake to Romney’s personal religious beliefs. “Also confuses ‘Prophet’ with ‘convicted conman using magic hat to read gold plates,” he continued.
The link posted with his message went back to a NewStatesman.com article that recapped Romney’s error. The latter part of his tweet — clearly the most controversial — was obviously intended to disparage Joseph Smith, the founder of the LDS church. The intentionally-contentious social media message had far reach, as it was re-tweeted (shared) by 1,175 people on Twitter.
Earlier this summer, TheBlaze reported that Dawkins will be penning a book about his personal path to atheism.
(H/T: The Hill)
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Comments (376)
tothepoint
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:12amI care not if Romney is a Mormon.
Report Post »I do care that our President is a Proven Serial Liar who continues to damage our country economically and in foreign policy.
Our country deserves better than this anti-American, anti-Constitution, anti-military Obama who has shown us all that he not only has a dearth of knowledge on just about anything of which he speaks, but he also cares nothing for America or its citizens.
Obama, who fits the criteria of a clinical Narcissist (Check the DSM IV-tr), cares only for money, power, and votes, not necessarily in that order.
Vote him and his ruthless gang out in 2012.
rfycom
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:21amBoth sides lie equally. Accept it. It is a rush when you finally get to the point where you accept that both sides are nuts, and that meeting in the middle is the only way we move forward.
Report Post »marybethelizabeth
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:40amAccepting false beliefs as true is a sign of inferior reasoning ability and retarded mental acuity.
A man who can not think and reason is not fit to be President.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:47am@ MARY….Mr. Obama ardently proclaims he is indeed a sincere Christian, does he have false beliefs or is he,“ A man who can not think and reason”?
Report Post »flipper1073
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:58am@ MARYBETHELIZABETH
Report Post »So You’re making the Case Against Obama ?
Welcome to the Light !
encinom
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:28amI am sorry, what lies, Romney has a track record of lying. The lies are from Fox news and their over the top bias reporting about Obama.
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:42amHey Mary Beth,
Report Post »Joseph Smith claimed to have seen God and his son Jesus at the age of 14. If that is true, then everything after supports what his mission in life as a prophet was. That very piece of information is what you should test with God. There are not too many 14 year old boys today who could make up that kind of a story and have a world wide church within 4 generations and there not be some truth to it. Why would he live his whole life hounded and then martyred just so he could hide his visit with God and the son? Could it be that it shakes the very foundation of Christianity and the lies it has perpetuated about the trinity? Could it be that once again a prophet and 12 apostles have always been the way the Lord conducts his church? You know, once you peel back the hatred you might find that your Mormon neighbors have a lot more to contribute than you are willing to give them credit for.
buttpatriot
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:53amboxers, briefs or magic underwear?
LibertyGoddess
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:00amWell, it depends on the religion. Several faiths have unique bits of clothing that mostly seem to have the same purpose – to remind believers of who they are and what they have promised to God.
Report Post »Thus the headwear of the Sikh, and the beads, prayer feathers, medicine pouches and shamanic robes of various Indian tribes.
As well as the yarmulke of some Jewish men and the head coverings of some Jewish women, and the aprons, trailing strings and hats of yet more followers of Judaism.
Or the phylacteries and other garments and devices described in particular detail in the Bible.
In that regard, it’s quite possible that Jesus, following the Old Testament Law of Moses and being an observant Jew, wore religiously prescribed garments.
Roman Catholic religious have worn sacred garments for 1,700 years. Similarly, religious garments – or “habits” – have been worn by Anglicans and religious of the Eastern Orthodox, Coptic and Greek Orthodox churches. Some of these garments are priestly, and just for ceremonial purposes, while others are worn constantly as a declaration of faith.
In the Judeo-Christian tradition, specialized articles of religious clothing, of one type or another, have been worn for at least 4,000 years. Some of these have been visible, as a sign to the world, and some have been worn under other clothes, as a reminder to the wearer.
antrancher
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:33amDoes anyone know that Obama gave 1 % of his income to charity? Compare that to Romney’s 10%. Romney also gave his entire inheritance from his family to charity. Mormans do not take any kind of welfare. they assist their own. I do not profess to be an expert on the Morman faith, but I do know that it has been over 100 years since Polygamy was practiced and I am really tired of hearing it. The people in Texas recently are NOT part of the Morman faith. I am also weary of hearing ignorant accusations against the Mormans on that issue.
Report Post »Mutiny
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:55am@ant
Mormons are also held accountable by the church for not tithing enough and believe “good works” will get them exalted to the point one day they will become a god. Giving a lot to charity to gain becoming a god seems like a pretty cheap price. Its a narrative set by Satan, but a still a cheap price.
Report Post »dblaess
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 12:34pm@ encinom
Report Post »Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:28am
I am sorry, what lies, Romney has a track record of lying. The lies are from Fox news and their over the top bias reporting about Obama.
———————————————————————————————
The current ads by the Obama camp are false and even the msm agrees with this. George, I must call you out. When did Harry Reid stop beating his wife? President Obama lies more that Nixon. President Obama has an enemy list. President Obama said we must reward our friends and punish our enemies. You are a paid troll and I have to work for a living. Unfortunally, the country will be destroyed before the msm realize that their life style is gone and there will be no one to save them. You as usual try to make a post that talks about anything other than what the article is about. George, president Obama is your paid front. Lets talk about Harry Reid and when he stopped beating his wife.
txdave22
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:02pmDo you care YOUR TAX DOLLARS PAYING SITTING SENATOR SALARY, VITTER IS ADMITTED ADULTERER AND BREAKER OF COMMANDMENTS? Yet all these christian pubs and cardinals and princes of the church (vitter is catholic) SAY NOTHING? NOTHING!!!———–
Report Post »———–VITTER FOR VEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!Are you and rubio and other senators FOR OR AGAINST ADULTERY AND BREAKING THE COMMANDMENTS?
You never say a thing about vitter, admitted adulterer, whoremonger. —————————–Can we assume adultery so ordinary among pub politicians nothing needs to be said? Sen Ensign’s resignation after aduterous affair last year would seem to suggest adultery rife in the GOP. What do you say?—————What does romney say, rubio, ryan? Nothing. So, if you don’t speak against gay marriage, you must be for it. ——————-If you don’t speak against ADULTERY, WHOREMONGERING, ———-WHICH VITTER ADMITTED, you must be for it. That is not a stretch, logical.
Walkabout
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:13pmmarybethelizabeth
Accepting false beliefs as true is a sign of inferior reasoning ability and retarded mental acuity.
A man who can not think and reason is not fit to be President.
***
Romney’s reasoning ability is very good. He graduated form Harvard Law & Business School. Could you do the same? As liberals so often point out everything is set up for WASPs. Romney is no protestant. So by your line of reasoning they should have had it in for him. Romney also ran the Salt Lake City Olympics well. It was in the black& no in the red. Compare that to the Lon don Olympics which has cost London a lot of money & is a financial disaster. Overall tourism is down for the whole summer & the bump form the Olympics is not going to cover for it. Romney ran Bain Capital well. other people are copying the way it ran. When the organization Bain Capital was spun off from was failing, Romney came in reorganized it saved it. Before them many people were jumping ship.
Obama came from Chicago. Two of his associates (Valerie Jarret & Rezco) built, managed or owned substandard housing. They should both be in jail. Rezco is. Obama did not improve housing or education in Chicago. Obama surrounds himself with people whose only skill in politics is being vicious. They cannot however fix anything. Obama associate, Rahm Emanuel using typical Democrat ways cannot save Chicago. Crime is up.
Chicago Murder Rate Surges as New York’s Drops to Record Low
Report Post »http://www.thedailybeast.com 7
Kenszen
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:18pm“Mutiny” is ignorant on the true beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We believe that we are saved by grace after all that we can do. There is no way that anyone can “buy” their way to heaven. And he infers by saying that members are “held accountable” for not paying tithing that it is a punitive system. It is not. The church does not send “tithing police” or bills for tithing or “enforce” the payment of tithing in any way. The only time whether one pays tithing or not comes into play is when a bishop of the church interviews you for admittance into one of our temples where only temple-worthy members may enter.
I only post this for those who may be interested and not to debate or argue with religious bigots as that is a waste of time.
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:20pmUntil 1978 the Moron Church was overtly, expressly, formally bigoted.
And Romney was a full-size, all growed-up adult by that time.
Report Post »Let’s imagine that Romney was opposed to the bigotry of his faith … Why did he goose-step along with something he didn’t agree with? That’s a troubling question to ask about the man who would be POTUS. The only alternative explanation is that he did NOT disagree with the bigotry, which is more troubling still.
MOM-ENTS in News
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:31pm@ Mutiny
Report Post »Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints do not believe that good works can essentially buy our way to heaven but rather that good works, obedience to the commandments of Jesus Christ and faith in His Atonement and saving power will allow members the access to repentance through that Atonement. We believe Jesus Christ is the Savior through which repentance and salvation is possible.
In the O.C.
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:41pmOkay, okay, everybody PLEASE CALM DOWN. It is POINTLESS to argue the obvious doctrinal differences between Mormonism and “mainstream Christianity” HERE – NOW. Dawkins’ claims and accusations are not worth the time and effort. He’s just an intellectually gifted biologist and atheist and will most likely die an atheist. He’s for Obama, too. STAY TOGETHER, FOLKS. This is not the time to get into a pi$$ing contest. Save it for another time, PLEASE. Romney is the choice offered for President, and he’s a hell of lot better than Obama could ever hope to be. You want to fight about doctrinal differences, WAIT FOR ANOTHER TIME, PLEASE. WAIT UNTIL AFTER NOVEMBER 6th, please. Save it.
Report Post »saranda
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 2:08pm@libertygoddes – since you brought it up, how do you reconcile the fact that Joseph Smith presented three contradictory versions of the first visitation. And my other big problem, aside from the date issues, is his “translation” of the book of Abraham which was completely bogus. Tough to get my head around those.
Report Post »Revere2
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 2:13pmI agree 200%.
Report Post »Gold Coin & Economic News
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 2:20pmI’m not a fan of Richard Dawkins, he’s a vile human being, but I don’t know how you get around the fact that Mormonism s a cult. Is there a single shred of evidence that Mormonism is true, some archaeological evidence or something?
Report Post »Mutiny
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 3:13pm@Kenszen
Where in my post did I say you had to do good works to be saved?
“The only time whether one pays tithing or not comes into play is when a bishop of the church interviews you for admittance into one of our temples where only temple-worthy members may enter.”
So if your tithes are not what they are supposed to be you could be denied being “worthy temple members”. So pay to play huh?
Pretty much you misquoted me and agreed with what I said. You sir are not ignorant you are blinded by Satan. Satan has tricked you and I will pray for you find the way to the one true God and the Jesus Christ of the Bible.
Report Post »makamae
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 3:14pmRFYCOM said: “Both sides lie equally. Accept it. It is a rush when you finally get to the point where you accept that both sides are nuts, and that meeting in the middle is the only way we move forward.”
Real ignorant post, RFYCOM. Both sides certainly do NOT lie equally. You‘d never hear Republicans claiming the Dems are going to starve our children because they didn’t increase a spending measure quite as much as the other party wanted.
The middle is for those who don’t stand for anything.
Report Post »makamae
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 3:16pmLibertygoddess – “If that is true, then everything after supports what his mission in life as a prophet was.”
Sooooo, when Joseph Smith was convicted of conning people out of their money WELL after he was 14, that supports his mission in life as a “prophet.”
Wow, what an idiot.
Report Post »Mutiny
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 3:18pmMOM-ENTS in News
You Mormons and you scripted talking points. Learn to read. I didnt say it got you to Heaven. Here I will put the exact post down for you to re read.
“Mormons are also held accountable by the church for not tithing enough and believe “good works” will get them exalted to the point one day they will become a god. Giving a lot to charity to gain becoming a god seems like a pretty cheap price. Its a narrative set by Satan, but a still a cheap price.”
Notice I didnt say buy your way into Heaven. The good works buy your “god” status when you get their so you can rule your own planet.
Report Post »saranda
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 3:24pmMy post above should have read DNA evidence. But I am interested in how one reconciled the book of Abraham problem and the multiple visions all being described as the first but having contradictory descriptions.
Btw, I have read the bofm twice as I live in a highly Mormon populated area a day my daughters have had to deal with much have being directed to them as a result of not being LDS. I read bofm so I might understand the parents of these kids better. Today I am just curiously asking to betterunderstand mitt and bis ability as an adult to look beyond what I see as inconsistencies interest LDS faith.
Report Post »black9897
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 3:38pmYeah, I don’t care what Romney is. Although I do agree that Smith was a fake and his work should Never be taken as God’s word.
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 3:57pmMutiny:
“The good works buy your “god” status when you get their so you can rule your own planet.”
This, also, is not a belief of the LDS church. In the LDS faith, grace from the Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation as well as exaltation.
Report Post »Leader1776
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 3:58pm@LibertyGoddess
Report Post »EXCELLENT. All too often cherry-picking on boards rises to the level of an Olympic sport without the rigor to compete. Thanks for keeping the issue in perspective.
OutOfTheAether
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 4:08pmI’m in total agreement with IN THE O.C.. Will all you KNUCKLEHEADS just CAN IT!!! Ok, so Romney’s faith has peculiarities in its doctrine. So what!!?? Every, and I do mean EVERY, religion has them – without exception. Just depends on who you’re talking to.
The important point is what is what you deem important on Nov 6th: Someone who has a chance of getting us out of this mess, or someone who’s intent on driving the bus over the cliff.
So, Get with the program people, AND QUIT BICKERING!!
(Gee, sounds like I’m talking to my kids all over again :/ )
Report Post »MOM-ENTS in News
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 4:10pmMutiny
Report Post »I can see that you did not say Heaven and I concede that I read it that way and still do possibly based on my belief on heaven. However I think that you are again misconstruing what it is LDS members believe about heaven. I believe (and this doesn’t mean that I speak for all members) once one has sufficient faith in Christ and has found salvation through repentance and His grace (as I don’t pretend to think that I have reached such a level) you are worthy to be admitted into heaven. Once in heaven I believe that like on Earth you are able to continue growing and maturing, gaining knowledge and such. I think that such growth in God‘s presence and with His guidance would qualify you as something higher than man but whether that ever reaches our Heavenly Father’s level I don’t know. But I think that you could classify said growth and experience as becoming gods without saying that you think that you would be exactly like God. But I also don’t think that becoming like God is out of the question either. We are all his children and just as I would want my children to acquire the highest level of success I think that God would want me and all others to experience his same success. Again though – it is not doctrine really taught from the pulpit as a set in stone principle just people trying to grasp Heavenly Father’s plan for us.
P8riot
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 4:49pm@mutiny –
I haven’t been able to check in for quite a while, but I knew as soon as I saw the title to this article that you would be here.
This comment might take you back a few months, but again —- Feel free to share YOUR beliefs and PLEASE refrain from trying to tell people what OTHERS believe – especially when you’re completely mininformed on the subject.
Report Post »Mutiny
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 4:57pm@MOM-ENTS in News
First off not all people are God’s children. You become a adopted child of God by accepting Jesus Christ of the Bible as your lord and savior. There are many verses in the Bible that clear make a distinction between the children of God and people not children of God. I do realize that conflicts and kind of messes up the Mormon plan to become like God but its true. The Bible is also very clear there is only one God. To believe you can one day become a god is contradicting God’s words from the Bible.
Mormons love to say that isnt in the cannon, or not taught by the LDS but lets not act like it is not a belief. I didnt come up with these ideas on my own. One of my best friends is a Mormon he has told me these things very clearly. You can say I twist things, but the true is most Mormons ignore their churches history and the words of their prophets. If they didnt, they would have left the church long ago. Which brings up another reason for Mormons being so unwilling to leave their church, the pressure felt from the church and other LDS members on people wanting to leave the church is very large. My friend basically told me he would lose his wife, kids, and his parents if he tried to leave the church. I have heard many others stories about business owners who have left the church being pushed out of business because remaining church members excommunicate them.
Report Post »Mutiny
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 5:12pm@p8riot
I also knew this topic would bring out the Mormon propaganda copy and paste team.
Report Post »Mutiny
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 5:14pm@kupo
What does a Mormon get by being exalted in Heaven?
Report Post »txdave22
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 5:25pmIf mittens so righteous, why does he never speak out against GOP SITTING SENATOR, ADMITTED ADULTERER, WHOREMONGER, BREAKER OF COMMANDMENTS? Neither do other pub leaders and the cardinals and princes of the church.
Is adultery OK in the republican party now? just no gay marriage?
VITTER FOR VEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!Are you and rubio and other senators FOR OR AGAINST ADULTERY AND BREAKING THE COMMANDMENTS? You never say a thing about vitter, admitted adulterer, whoremonger. Can we assume adultery so ordinary among pub politicians nothing needs to be said? Sen Ensign’s resignation after aduterous affair last year would seem to suggest adultery rife in the GOP. What do you say?What does romney say, rubio, ryan? Nothing. So, if you don’t speak against gay marriage, you must be for it. If you don’t speak against ADULTERY, WHOREMONGERING, WHICH VITTER ADMITTED, you must be for it. That is not a stretch, logical.
Report Post »—————————-
bullcrapbuster
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 6:51pm@ marybethelizabeth…you should know that Dawkins is not running for president. You silly thing you.
Report Post »title_of_liberty
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 7:50pmIt grieves me that whenever an article that has anything to do with the Mormons is put out that the trolls come out in force. Even many people who normally post good comments start attacking us for what we believe. I appreciate those who comment in our defense, and I respect those who don’t believe everything the trolls say, but for those of you who are attacking us, get out. You are spreading vile lies. I‘m amazed that even though we are one of America’s most conservative demographics that many of you hate us as much as the liberals do. If you think that Obama and the democrats are fighting a war on your religion, why don’t you take a moment to stand in our shoes. They mock, insult, and attack us relentlessly especially because they are threatened by Romney. And then many conservatives join them, and many more say nothing about it. Again I am deeply grateful for those defending us, but there are too many so called freedom fighters who do nothing regardless of the fact that we help defend your freedom. You may not like us. Most of us are used to it. I know that within a few hours some troll will probably remove this comment. But for those of you who read this, remember what I said. “Choose you this day whom ye will serve… but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:15
Report Post »Independent4233
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:46pm“Atheist Richard Dawkins Bashes Romney & His Mormon Faith: Joseph Smith Was a ‘Convicted Conman Using Magic Hat to Read Gold Plates’”
I‘ll lay 100 to 1 odds that this cowardly dork wouldn’t NEVER EVER say anything so offensive about Muhammed.
Notice also theat the vile-speaking, Christian-hating homosexuals never ever utter anything about Islam’s disgust of homosexuals.
Both they and the Dawkins types know they would have to go into hiding if they did.
Report Post »rusooperman
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:06pmMan…The anti-mormons are out in full force.
All I can say Dawkins, is that if Joseph Smith was a fraud, he was SMARTER THAN YOU! 95% of the world population believes in a supreme being of some kind. So we should all abandon our beliefs because you are so smart and have figured out that God doesn’t exist?
DON’T LISTEN TO THE HATERS! Decide for yourself.
Report Post »http://www.mormon.org
NOT A CRAZY
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:29pmB.O. is a Muslim infiltrator. He is a liar, a con, a cheat, a foreigner. He is destroying America. That is the stuff that matters.
Report Post »sophillyjimmy
Posted on August 10, 2012 at 1:41amThis guy Dawkins claims to be a scientist and an atheist and he talks about magic hats, but if given the chance I be he would want to gaze into Obama’s darkened crystal balls and he will believe the first thing that popped up and quickly swallow the magic gism that shoots into his open mouth.
Report Post »mcsledge
Posted on August 10, 2012 at 2:52ammarybethelizabeth – You question one who would accept false doctrine. Who said the teachings of Joseph Smith were false. God didn’t. Christ certainly didn’t because he told Joseph what to say and teach. And what did the Prophet Joseph teach:
That God, The Father, and His Only Begotten, Jesus Christ, appeared to him. [Nothing new - Stephan saw both the Father and the Son before being stoned]
That God, The Father, and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct beings. [Nothing new - the majority of Christ's very words make this case known]
That God, The Father and Jesus Christ have glorified bodies. [Nothing new - didn't God say He created man after His own image]
That the power and authority to act in the name of God (i.e., the Holy Priesthood) was restored. [Nothing new - no man taketh this honor unless he be called of God as was Aaron - I believe an ordination performed by Peter, James and John makes this point]
That God revealed His word to other people outside of Jerusalem and that these words were later translated for our benefit in The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. (Companion scripture to the Bible).
That God expected a House to be built unto Him (i.e. a Temple – House of the Lord). [Didn't Christ during His very life chastise many for violating God's Holy Temple - The Temple was not a Mosaic Law edifice]
I suggest you pick and choose wisely what you so casually take as fact. It may cost you your eternal salvation.
Report Post »Watchingtheweasels
Posted on August 10, 2012 at 10:54amNeither Obama nor Romney are Christians, both are globalists, but only one is a communist.
Report Post »DamocleAurelius
Posted on August 10, 2012 at 4:04pm@Lock
you can’t convict someone a “felon” for a misdemeanor, you toady. Just one more evidence that the critics here are clueless.
Report Post »Dally38
Posted on August 10, 2012 at 5:15pmDidn’t Dawkins say he is sure biology will prove life was created, but that Aliens did it? He needs to get off his high horse about strange beliefs.
Report Post »bojax
Posted on August 10, 2012 at 10:22pm@rfycom…. A wise man once told me that the only thing that‘s sure to hapeen to anyone who stands in the middle of the road is that sooner or later they’re gonna get run over. Think about it. Just saying…
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:12amThe last resort for a coward is to call other people names.
I am totally indifferent to Romney’s religion. He chooses to believe what he believes, as do I. This whole religion thing is a fur ball. Very rarely can one person convince another to change religious faiths.
I just want the socialist/communist out of office.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:15am“The last resort for a coward is to call other people names.”
Just checking, but I didn‘t see anyone called names in Dawkins’ tweet… are you referring to something else?
Report Post »friuliveneto
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:30amLocked, you need to refine your reading skills. Calling someone a “convicted conman” certainly fits the definition of name calling. Of course, that particular lie –that Joseph Smith was convicted of being a conman–gets a lot of traction even though it’s false.
Report Post »Tradition Dies Here
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:47amRegardless, Joseph Smith is an absurd man who made absurd claims. You claim that religious beliefs are irrelevant when it comes to a position in politics? I fancy that were Mitt a Muslim, many on the right would be singing a different tune. Mormonism, however, we’ll give him the pass on that one.
Report Post »antitheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:50amI’m not sure of him being a convicted conman, but he was certainly “convicted” of marrying already married women.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 12:26pm@Fri
Odd, looks like the Blaze doesn’t want me posting things from BYU. So, to summarize: there have been historical records found calling Joseph Smith a felon after his 1826 trial about glass-looking, where he was convicted of fraud. The originals were found in the 70s, and given to the LDS in 2005.
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:33pmYep, young Joe Smith was a co-man alright.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:06pmCanucklehead – And here you leftists whine about tolerance and diversity and claim that marriage is a civil right when you’re denouncing polygamy, hypocrite.
Clean up your own bigotry first before lecturing others on theirs.
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:36pm“leftist”?
“denouncing polygamy”?
“bigotry”?
What the heck are you talking about???
Report Post »Zombee
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:08amAtheism Is A Religion.
Report Post »They have their own worldview, their own orthodoxy, their own brand of apostasy.They have their own prophets: Nietzsche, Russell, Feuerbach, Lenin, Marx. They have their own preachers and evangelists.Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, and Hitchens.They have faith. Theirs is a faith-based enterprise. The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. To deny it takes faith. Evolution has no explanation for why our universe is orderly, predictable, measurable. In fact (atheistic) evolutionary theory has no rational explanation for why there is such a thing as rational explanation. There is no accounting for the things they hope you won’t ask: Why do we have self-awareness? What makes us conscious? From what source is there a universal sense of right and wrong? They just take such unexplained things by … faith. Their main goal is to deny U.S. citizens of their religious freedoms (Christians in particular).
Darckilo
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:22amWith that sort of logic. I cannot prove unicorns dont exist so they must. As far as a religion… thats a stretch. I study christianity but I could hardly call my doing so a religion.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:28amwow, it’s hard to write that many words and be 100% wrong. well done.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:58am@ DARCK….”With that sort of logic. I cannot prove unicorns dont exist so they must. As far as a religion”….Has there been collected evidence on the existence of unicorns? Is anyone claiming to have archeological evidence for these creatures? What about supposed eyewitness accounts? Is there any evidence that coould in any way be examined for the existence of unicorns?
Your rebuttal was nonsensical in that you committed the fallacy of strawman by misrepresenting the actual case of Intelligent design vs Cosmic ex nihlo both of which have a substantial amount of evidence to examine and support their conclusions.
Secondly, you committed a logical fallacy by claiming you could not prove unicorns do not exist using the previous posters “logic”. Regardless of what they stated, you can NEVER prove a negative existential assertion. That is a non sequitur. So your assertion that the original poster had a flawed logical argument is, itself a flawd assertion logically speaking. Thank you….
Report Post »Locked
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:18am“Evolution has no explanation for why our universe is orderly, predictable, measurable.”
Odd. Last time I checked, Evolution was a scientific theory explaining how creatures change over many generations. It made no contentions about the order, predictability, or measurement of the universe.
Perhaps you do not know what evolution actually is?
Report Post »conservative beckhater
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:08amNot believing in the supernatural is not a religion. Stop lying. Be honest. Think clearly. Stop spreading false information. Try logic and critical thought instead of mouthing off with a bunch of hogwash.
Report Post »hidden_lion
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:13amDarkilo-
Report Post »Unicorns and Dragons may well have existed, Trolls still do…They just hide under the bridge of technology.
antitheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:55am@Sleazy
I wonder why you always seem so eager to correct the non-believers in this site while ignoring the fallacies committed by the believers. Like zombee has done here by misrepresenting religion and evolution and equating them to things that do not belong.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 12:43pmI don’t see how Atheism is like religion.
Atheism is the rejection of a claim that there is a God. To say that it takes “faith” to think that no God exists is silly. You have yet to meet the burden of proof(for me personally) to make me think that a God exists.
There is no one book that we all read, and all get our “atheism” from but then use different interpretations to define our version of Atheism.
While we do like certain writers, we don’t think any of them are divinely inspired. Hitchens was a great man, but I don’t hold him in any higher regard then a normal human being. I don’t say that he died of pneumonia to save humanity.
I don’ think that everyone that disagrees with me is going to suffer on an eternal punishment on an alternate plane of existence.
I don’t go to an “atheist” church, hell I don’t even meet with other atheists. Most of what I do is go online and watch debates between an atheist and a religious person. One thing that it isn’t is someone telling me what to think and saying I must obey it all or go to hell.
When was the last time that you were in church and heard an argument from an Atheist/Muslim/Mormon? Would I guess correctly if I said never? Church is the ultimate echo chamber.
Atheism doesn’t take anything on faith, we take it on evidence. If evolution is later on falsified, we would no longer accept it as a viable theory. We couldn’t dogmatically deny that it had been proven false.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 3:30pm@ ANTITHEIST….First, have you seen all my posts? I have argued agianst illogical arguments from Christians when they are pertinent to what I am discussing. Secondly, I do not respond to all atheists comments that possess illogical flaws either. Thirdly, I could inquire of you the same question regarding your position and comments? Do you correct atheists when they make logical flawed arguments? Perhaps you do, perhaps you don’t, it realy doesn’t bother me either way. Am I being intellectually dishonest for not arguing for or against those you disagree with? Am I obliged to do so? Why do you presume I see any illogical statement in the original post? I neither approved or disapproved of the original comment. Perhaps you could be more specific as to what exactly was illogical in the original comment so that I might respond. I have always argued that “storng atheism” is very much likened to a religion possessing all the necessary components. Agnosticism comes the closest to a nonreligion. Thnak you….
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on August 10, 2012 at 8:01am@ MOD…Cosmic ex nihlo is taken by faith?
Report Post »tothepoint
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:06amTo the atheists who pretend their godless religion is not a “religion.”
Report Post »Atheism fits the criteria and description of a religion.
We know it is difficult for atheists to admit it, so you may continue your denial.
Your denial does not change facts.
Do the research.
In the USA, you are permitted to have your atheist godless religion. Just stop trying to force it on others. Atheists accuse other religions of trying to force their religion onto people and that is mere projection on the part of atheists.
Thatsitivehadenough
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:08amI couldn’t agree with you more. They just don‘t get it that just because they aren’t holding a bible, they are still trying to convert people to their belief. Same with the Marxists. And both groups use political activism to force their ‘belief’ onto everyone else.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:37amme thinks you too don’t know what a religion is. consider Atheists like football commentators. we don’t play the game, but we talk about it, study it, and analyze it. none of that means that Bob Costas can strap on pads and play on Sunday.
Atheists find religion interesting, in that we have a hard time grasping the stuff that Theists are willing to swallow in regards to their faith. furthermore, we have serious skin in the game – religion has arrived in a big way on the Political landscape. we don’t like that. we voice our opinion.
Report Post »stumpy68
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:50amIf a person truly didn’t believe in GOD they
Report Post »wouldn’t care what you or i believed or did because
it wouldn’t matter and why would it be worth their limited time to
try and convince us? the most you would expect from a true atheist
is a good chuckle at those of us who do believe.
TEIN
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:38am@phillyatheist..your logic is confusing to me…if atheist are just on the sideline commenting and pointing out the game, then why is the “Holy Bible” banned in schools?? If there is no God or proof of a God then the book is myth and stories at worst and a different philosophy at best….Yet each person who has written a philosophy book, a book about different sexual life style, or psychology self help are embraced and encourage and are in the schools…if there is no God then there is no religion therefore no religion to separate from the state only philosophies …But, religion is defined by law, and by its definition, atheist is a religion being supported by judges who are ruling in favor of whatever atheist spew out..please don’t play this just “watcher”, “observer”, “analyzer” bs…I flushed that down the toilet this morning….atheist are trying to shape this country in a Godless image…
Report Post »antitheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:58amThe bible isn’t banned in schools. It can still be taught as a piece of literature. The reason you think the bible is banned in public schools is because America has a constitution that we strive to follow and we have institutions that do so.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 12:03pm” why is the “Holy Bible” banned in schools??”
maybe because school is for learning, ya know, actual stuff. we have Church, Bible Study, and private schools for learning Theology.
“if there is no God then there is no religion therefore no religion to separate from the state only philosophies …”
talk about circular reasoning. we most certainly can have Religion without there being an actual God. it’s most likely happening now. there are religions centered around self proclaimed messiah’s all over the world. are they really God? of course not, but that doesn‘t make the religion it’s based on any less real. stop being stupid.
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:44pmWow STUMPY. You one dumb bunny.
Report Post »Of course the delusional mythologies of religious believers has effect in the real world. 9-11 comes to mind as just one example.
jsciai
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:59amI find it interesting that those who ‘know’ about any religion tend to get their info from sources other than the religion itself. Religion is a question of faith. Faith demands a belief in something that cannot be ‘proven’ but is true nonetheless. Dawkins doesn’t have faith in atheism but he obviously believes it strongly. What he is doing has been replicated throughout history–where the godless attack the faithful. They often use “logic”, intimidation and they attack the points of faith that cannot be “proven”. Dawkins has never felt the confirming presence of the spirit that would dispel his belief in atheism. This attack on Romney’s religion is really an attack on all religions. Those of you deriding the Mormons had better watch out. When dawkins and others succeed in destroying the Mormons their next target will be your religion.( I don’t’ think that will happen-just hypothetical but the concept is true).
The founding fathers understood that tolerance in religion is fundamental to a stable and prospering society. They experienced what happened when one belief system(church, faith, belief) dominated and intimidated others. Dawkins is in true violation of the religious freedom we enjoy since his object is to destroy, not to build up, as he promotes his ‘religion’ onto others. I would have no argument with him if he tried to ‘convert’ folks to atheism without tearing down the faith of others. But, of course, that is impossible.
Report Post »conservative beckhater
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:18amGods are created by the imaginations of men. They are not real. They do not exist.
Geography, physics, chemistry, biology, genetics, hygiene, mathmatics – who had it right? Us or ancient people? We do of course. So why would anyone believe their ideas about the supernatural? And why would some great all-knowing deity that created the universe and everything in it make itself known to human beings and lay down a collection of rules on how to behave but neglect to address how women were being treated as second class citizens? And why were humans alive in our current form for at least 100,000 years while this great entity hid from us, only supposedly making its presence known a few thousand years ago (and no one has seen it since?)
It’s obvious that religion is man made. All religions.
Report Post »JawaJam
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:00pmwow the trolls are out in force today
Report Post »Nunyunuwi
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:58amI know the living family members of Joseph Smith Jr. I know a lot about their history, Josephs families history, they Fought in the Revolution, they stood to found this great nation and its Freedoms, only to have Joseph murdered with the knowledge of the Gov. Ford of Illinois who ate dinner at Josephs home served by Emma (Josephs Wife) While he was being murdered / assassinated. Part of the reason was he was an Abolitionist, and outspoken about restoring America to the Founding fathers ideals even then. Those who like slavery got together with others full of hate, and these evil wicked men did kill him and his brother, eventually these evil groups would force the little church to leave American boarders to avoid extermination by the Government. Interesting that they still were patriots, even when their religious rights, and property rights, and basic Constitutional rights were forbidden them by wicked men, who were a lot like the progressives of today. What history will be spoken of by You, those who are patriots, those who like Glenn and the other patriots, Obama-nation will vilify you, and if they stay in power where will you go to hide, when they come to reeducate or imprison, or delete you? there is no other place to go. I know the truth, I know our savior Jesus Christ, I know Joseph Smith Jr. was a good person, I know the Book of Mormon to be a part of the lost history of my ancestor’s, for we know the stories it contains. Some are Warnings for us, God Bless America.
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 2:05pmYou are fully immersed in the delusion I see.
Report Post »Nunyunuwi
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:44amWell this guy is way off base, like most liberal progressives, they prefer the Created history verses Actual facts.
Report Post »Joseph Smith Jr, was arrested on trumped up charges many times, acquitted on them all, there have been False hoods, lies written and re-written about his history and the foundation or Restoration of what today is known as ‘The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints‘ Now like normal when the church’s growth became successful, and preachers were loosing their congregations ie. paychecks as priest craft (getting payed to preach) was a very normal thing then as now. However Christ to my knowledge never allowed priest craft but taught a lay ministry.
However some of the statement is based on incorrect information, some is mixed up with a few stories. Like obama people had to accept a New history back then.
Many reasons why people choose to create lies, that became taught then believed now accepted as truth even though they are not.
The Book of Mormon was given to Joseph to Translate, yes it was made of Gold alloys, yes it was an ancient record, some of my Native cousins new of its existence the stories mentioned in it are Old native lore, it relates to many Pre Columbus inhabitants of this land. Evidences added here, http://hiddennorthamericanarchaeology.blogspot.com/ were you can begin real & interesting facts. This is again a Smear Campaign, this atheist has no clue about truth, Joseph was an Honorable man Murdered for Not denying belief in Jesus
JosephsMyth
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:09am“Joseph was an Honorable man Murdered for Not denying belief in Jesus”
Joseph arrested for having his followers destroy the newspaper the Nauvoo Expositor (written by former followers) which exposed his polygamy and polyandry. He subsequently was killed in a gun fight with an armed mob that stormed the jail. It’s my opinion, it was the polyandry that did him in. I think his followers would have been fine with the polygamy, but when he started asking for their own wives that was just too much. Joseph should have known that men aren’t too crazy about sharing their wife with another man even if he is the Prophet.
Report Post »marybethelizabeth
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:11amThe evidence seems to indicate that Joseph Smith was running a fortune telling scam using some magic glasses in 1825 and he was arrested for this and admitted his guilt, and promised to reform.
It wasn’t until 1827 that he claimed to have found the ancient writings that became The Book of Mormon.
Report Post »Darckilo
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:14amCan you also tell me about the parts that say blacks will be slaves in heaven?
Report Post »Darckilo
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:26amI was always taught “Where there is smoke there is fire”… Joseph Smith was most likely a swindler and cheat the way history has portrayed him.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:23amDARCK: “where there is smoke ”…you sound like a typical Obama tool. The Obama Left Alinskys also like to target their opponents with smears and allegations. They figure people like you will interpret the “smoke” allegations they send out to be proof that there is indeed a fire . How does it feel to be a fool-tool of the Obama crowd and their Lap Dog media ??
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:57amHere we go again. Mary Beth consider yourself schooled and stop posting lies. You just love to post lies made up by hateful pastors that have been corrected again and again. Joseph heard about treasures buried in the area he had grown up in, and with others they would go looking for them. When he had his visitation with God and Jesus he was 14. He was not shown the plates until he was 18. The first print was years later after translating.
As for the printing press story, every time this group started printing stories about the Mormons (mostly lies) the mobs would start all over again and cause severe problems for the Mormons. Joseph was wrong to order it destroyed, but he thought he was doing it to stop the mobs again. It is written history that the Mormons were beaten, stolen from, raped and murdered again and again.
There was no polyandry. There were women who had themselves married to Joseph after his death because they were afraid their own husbands couldn’t get them to the celestial kingdom. That practice was stopped and since been corrected. As for the one woman who was married and Joseph asked the husband for her in marriage, after the man gave his consent, Joseph immediately retracted his proposal and admitted he was testing the man to see if he would really follow a prophet. A bad test, but he never married another man’s wife.
Report Post »Wango
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:17amBABAR2 . . .“like to target their opponents with smears and allegations”
Obama is Muslim. Obama was born in Kenya. Obama is a drug addict. You’re a good posterboy for Alinsky. I‘m beginning to think you’re a troll sent here to make conservatives look like raging hypocrites. How much is Spooky Dude paying you?
Report Post »conservative beckhater
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:23amThat is total nonsense nunyunuwi.
wow
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:31pmWango
Wango Rezko & Obama are connected at the hip. The Land deal that Rezko made with Obama is a quid pro quo. the openly reason Obama is free is because most people don’t care. Rezko & Valerie Jarret provided substandard housing for the poor & profited from it. Obama knows this & still supports them so long his political career will survive (i.e Jarrett & Rezko not so much). And you support Obama It sure says a lot about you.
Report Post »JosephsMyth
Posted on August 10, 2012 at 2:32am“There was no polyandry. …., but he never married another man’s wife.” — LibertyGoddess
Absolutely false. Even Mormon scholars now admit the Joe Smith’s harem included married women. It is believed at least 11 of his plural wives were already married when Joe wed them. The Nauvoo Expositor was written by former followers some of whom Joe had asked that he be allowed to marry their wives. I still contend that is was the polyandry that did old Joe in.
Since you will not believe any non-mormon source, I would recommend you go read the FARMS (Mormon apologists) review of Todd Compton’s “In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith.” While citing lack of sufficient evidence on a few of the marriages, they affirm 29 of the marriages (8 of which were polyandrous). There is just too much evidence, even the guys at FARMS have to admit Joe practiced both polygamy and polyandry.
Report Post »john vincent
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:44amNot a fan of Jos. Smith, Dawkins, or Romney. But why should Mr Dawkins profit from a slip-of-speech by Romney? Appears he is solely drawing attention to himself and his own ‘religion’ of no relogion.
Romney misspeaks, You misspeak, I misspeak, But Mr Obama does far greater damage by speaking correctly! Romney had a slip of the tongue, Obama has a forked tongue, and in this Mr Dawkins has a companion. Dawkins is like the man who publickly praises a person, not to point to his achievements, but only to be noticed himself. He is akin to a leech.
Atheism is an old worn out wagon, pulled by they who are their own god, while they mock anybody who dare believe in a true GOd. Mormonism? full of flaws, but so what, I’lll find fault will all sects, the issue is not the color t-shirt a man wears, how well he can dribble a ball, or how well he can read a teleprompter,..
I’ll take an honest man who makes mistakes over a great pretender all day long.
Report Post »Nunyunuwi
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:00amWell said.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:04amWell stated and valid points.
Report Post »john vincent
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:18amtkx
u may appreciate this as well, re. a comment made yesterday about the ‘50’s.’
http://sienna48.blog.com/2012/08/09/the-fifties/
Report Post »Wango
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:22pmBut but but . . . wait . . . I mean, what am I going to do with this “57states Hmmmmmm?” I have saved on my clipboard? I use it every day. I can’t just NOT use that. Come on, is now really the time to be reasonable? I know it makes sense since you‘re defending OUR guy and that we’d never offer up such a mature and even-handed approach with “that one” . . . Oh . . . Hey! . . . OK, I guess I can still use it, just not in this thread and not right now. Is that right? OK, I get it. Great. Carry on.
Report Post »Americaisbeautiful
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:41amAnyone who has read Dawkins knows that he is an angry man! He truly must have been bored between books! And he is not happy unless he is degrading anyone’s faith! How else would he make himself relevant to the discussion? In “The God Delusion”, he generally demeans all religion , but especially Judaism and Christianity! I personally wrote him after reading “The God Delusion” and told him that on the day of Judgment he too would bow to the the great Creator whether he likes it or not! I told him that he would give an account of all his deeds as will we all, and that he would not escape into nothingness as he believes! I hope that got his attention! But I fear that he only laughed! I mean really, who pays Dawkins any mind?? Romney got the word wrong , really, has anyone heard Obama gaffs? The two words sound alike and I am sure Romney is not the only one who has mingled the two words before! Dawkins is so rabbid in this thought that he gets everyone’s attention to see how offensive he can be! He knows that in this maddness called the social media, anything he says will be around the world in 2 sec. flat! He relishes the thought of controvercial dialogue otherwise, no one gives him thought! Dawkins thinks he’s smarter than everyone else because he is a scientist and he believes those credentials give him expertise on religion, a subject he soundly rejects so he criticizes it at every turn! He like Obama loves the sound of his own voice!
Report Post »conservative beckhater
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 12:54pmWhat you wrote is utter garbage. Hogwash. Lies. Nonsense.
Report Post »Granny58
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 6:18amI don’t see how any part of this is a lie. It is basically a recount of the writer’s own actions taken in response to a book (and why lie about that?) and then an opinion. Not really stating any lie as a fact or vice versa.
Report Post »WithoutGuile
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:31amNow this is fun piece because an avowed atheist is quoting from the same lies that anti-mormon christians have been quoting from for years. Never mind the fact that Joseph Smith was NEVER let me repeat NEVER convicted of any crime. Though he was jailed and brought up on false charges nearly 100 times. The liars who bore false witness against him could never get their facts strait…something all liars struggle with. The main problem with Joseph Smith… he had a different view of God and Christ..(he said they had physical bodies). and the other ministers saw it as a threat(they had a different view)….and so (like Jesus, Joseph Smith was most hated by the “ paid ministers and in power leaders of established religions” who used the arm of Government to do the dirty deed of actually killing him.
Any close and meaningful and unbiased discussion of the Mormon faith would have to include some absolutely marvelous compliments for what they have accomplished as a people, and the phenomenal amount of good they have done and continue to do quietly in the world. Just read the Mormon FAQ here for example http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/
This honest discussion would also have to include the FACT that Mormons actually have far more doctrine and worship and writings about Jesus Christ than any other Christian faith. Reading the Book of Mormon would help to clarify how very very very Christian the Mormons really are.
Report Post »Polarized America
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:00amMy ..FAQ…are never answered when i ask them….. i would like to know a little more about what Mormons believe about the after life and about the term .. Sealing …< so I'll say something that may be stupid ….So does a person/spirit go to another planet and awwww who gets to fallow them there ?. and why all the secrecy ?…its hard to understand or fallow a Faith that people know so little about …..
Report Post »I hope that wasn't too stupid …..but they are Q's & A's that would never be put on your FAQ. page
Polarized America
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:11amWell I’ve been checking in on you for awhile now and i guess you wish to re mane secretive, even though i see that you have answered others long after my comment …well thank you for not calling me names like you did to others
and o..btw …from what I’ve read J. Smith was nothing at all like Jesus …shame on you
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:10amPolarized, no one is being secretive. However, a religious discussion of the magnitude you are requesting is probably not going to happen on a blog. There is no secrecy. Everything there is about Mormons can be found on the internet or asking some of those cute missionaries you see out and about. ..or better yet, see if you have any neighbors as members.
Yes, there is an after life and all the components of that structure can be found scripturally in the Bible and supported further by the BOM. The big difference between LDS beliefs and modern day Christians is Mormons believe everyone will be resurrected and receive a different place in heaven according to their works. No one can work their way to heaven, as Christ’s atonement unlocked that door that stopped us from entering. However, there would be no “final judgment” if works were not important. Salvation is two parts, not one, and when this earth life test is over, we will not be forgotten just because we happened to be born in some remote part of the world who never even heard the name Jesus Christ.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 12:29pm“Any close and meaningful and unbiased discussion of the Mormon faith would have to include some absolutely marvelous compliments for what they have accomplished as a people, and the phenomenal amount of good they have done and continue to do quietly in the world. ”
False
The deeds done by someone do nothing to support the truthfulness of their claims.
Report Post »conservative beckhater
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:28amSince when is making an accurate and true statement “bashing?” If Hallowell is going to make that claim, he needs to back it up with proof. of course, he can’t because there is none. There is proof that Joseph Smith is exactly as he is described by Professor Dawkins however. TRUTH BEFORE IDEOLOGY BILLY.
Report Post »WithoutGuile
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:35amSpoken like a true idiot…and probably a divorced one. You can tell a lot about someone who has such a closed, small and bigoted mind. You are obviously unhappy and except for the other very unhappy and ignorant people who may hang out with you because you lack real friends.. you are lonely, sad and blaming others for it. Sad
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:43amWITHOUT – judge not lest you be judged (or something like that). worse yet, you’re judging someone based on so little information (really no information at all). try practicing your faith responsibly.
Report Post »flipper1073
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:49am@ WITHOUT
While I Disagree with beckhater on Most if not All his Points.
I can’t Understand how you make the jump to
Divorced, Unhappy, No Friends.
Atheists are Free to Not Believe in GOD.
The Same as Christians are Free to Believe.
Where I Part Company with Atheists is When
They Substitute Government for God.
If You Believe that Government Is or Should be
The ALL Powerfull an Driving Force in Your Life.
Then You have Substituted One God for Another.
Hi, Philly !
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:17amhey FLIP – long time no see.
Report Post »flipper1073
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 1:03pm@Philly
Report Post »You know me Just ******* off Both sides of the Isle.
But Hey It’s What I do .
I think for Myself an Encourage Everyone Else to do the Same.
nmontague
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 2:42pmGood question. The more apprpriate question though is where did Hawkins make “an accurate and true statement”? The man is flat out lying.
Report Post »nmontague
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 2:52pmClearly I’m having trouble spelling today.
Report Post »vaman
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:27amLike all cult leaders, religious leaders are all con men. They peddle an eternity in heaven in exchange for total obedience (no matter how outrageous or ridiculous) and a lifetime of pay offs. Keep tithing or burn in hell. This of course applies to the extremist groups like evangelicals.
Report Post »WCJ
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:13amDude, you have a broad brush.
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 4:13pm” Keep tithing or burn in hell.”
Mormons do not believe this.
Report Post »JosephsMyth
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:25amDawkins is flat out wrong. He is right about Smith being a convicted conman, but the hat was not magic. The “translation” of the non-existent golden plates came from gazing at the seer stone in the hat.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:34am“Dawkins is flat out wrong.”
Not completely wrong. Romney did call Sikhs “Sheikhs” (which is an entirely different faith). His comments about Mormonism were insulting, of course, but that’s because Dawkins sets out to be insulting in order to get a rise out of people. It seems to be working.
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:07amIf the hat was not magic, what was it for? Why not just read through the stones out in the open?
Report Post »utahpatriot
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:21amIf you can write a 500 page book that internally consistent, consistent with all other scriptures and so inspiring that it encourages millions to keep the commandments of God and live purposeful and successful lives I would buy your book. The Book of Mormon could not have been written by Joseph Smith who was a very young uneducated man when it was translated (not written). If you read it with an open mind, you will be inspired and educated spiritually. You will feel in your heart by way of the Spirit that this book is inspired of God.
All of those close to him were convinced that he was not making up the book, but being inspired on his translation by help from God. God works in mysterious ways, this is one of those evidences. There is no way that he could have just spouted out of his mind the Book of Mormon as it was being recorded by his scribes unless was the second most incredible individual to have ever lived.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:22amLocked: have noticed a well of anger and hurt in the atheists who comment here. They have “ different” / non-traditional views from the mainstream They not only seem to want to state their opinion but to want to hurt people who don’t agree with them . Think the Obama people purposely try to tap into those feelings of alienation and hurt in order to stir up their base . Obama definitely appeals to “ minority” groups and he does so with Blame / victim/ angry rhetoric. Very damaging.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:31am@Barber2
“have noticed a well of anger and hurt in the atheists who comment here. ”
I’ve noticed it from a lot of posters, no matter their view. The logical reason being that the comments section of an opinion site usually is not the place for well-reseached, well-cited debate and conjecture. Sure, we have a bit of that; but for every one post, we’ll have five going “I hate X group because they’re all idiots and totally wrong about Y topic!”
Usually with more colorful language…
Report Post »Mutiny
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:52am@Utah
I believe there is only one real God. The God of the Bible. I believe in Jesus Christ of the Bible. I believe Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven. That being said I believe their are only two teams playing. God‘s team and Satan’s team. By that account all other religions are and have been created by Satan to trick humans. So is it possible who Joseph Smith met in the woods was God or Jesus but Satan? Could Satan have helped craft this book you say has no errors in?
Remember the idea of one day becoming like God was not the idea of humans, it was the idea of Satan and it was the first sin.
Report Post »nmontague
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 2:44pmActually, he isn’t Joseph was never convicted of a single crime.
Report Post »Mutiny
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 5:17pm@nmontague
Actually you are wrong. Joseph Smith was charged and found guilty. There is public records of it. Do a little research.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:18amHmmm…I am not going to dismiss Dawkin’s point here, but to me not believing there is a God is much dumber than not quite understanding who God is. Just sayin’…
Report Post »tothepoint
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:16amHey Dawkins – Stop trying to shove your godless religion down our throats.
Report Post »You religious atheist extremists have no more right to your beliefs than others have to their personal beliefs.
Your ridicule of others tells a great deal about you.
phillyatheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:41am” Stop trying to shove your godless religion down our throats.”
um, it was a tweet. don’t read it. don’t follow him. you know, how you want Atheists to handle religious symbols on public land.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:52amphillyatheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:41am
” Stop trying to shove your godless religion down our throats.”
um, it was a tweet. don’t read it. don’t follow him. you know, how you want Atheists to handle religious symbols on public land.
Report Post »———————————————————
Hey, you’re finally right about something! Congrats!
tothepoint
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:03amTo those who posted comments to mine, please re read my post.
Report Post »It stands.
Your comments do not fit what I was writing about. Perhaps you were responding to someone else.
phillyatheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:39amTOTHEPOINT – i quoted your post directly.
Report Post »Irishtech
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:54amDawkins like all other atheist are not godless. they have something they worship on a daily basis.
Report Post »tothepoint
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:32amTo maryelizabeth – It is your opinion that those are false beliefs. You cannot prove they are not true.
Report Post »Obama believes we have 57 states. No other candidate has ever not known there are 50 states.
Obama believes it is ok to let newborn babies die, who are born alive to botched abortions.
Obama believes his friendship with terrorist Bill Ayers and Ayers’ convicted terrorist wife Bernardine Dohrn is ok, even though they bombed American homes and public building.
Obama has many beliefs which decent Americans believe are false.
Lloyd Drako
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:56amHow exactly is Dawkins trying to shove his views down anybody’s throat? The man is expressing an opinion.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:07pmLloyd Drako – Yet you crazy leftists whine about religious people shoving their beliefs down your throat just by even mentioning their religious beliefs, hypocrite.
Report Post »Fonz777
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:10amyep, Joseph was a con man and false prophet I have no doubt whatsoever. If still alive I’m voting for Romney
Report Post »SonOfThunder
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:21amAgreed and Romney/whoever in 2012. I don’t know an evangelical who is not voting for Romney. Mr. abortionist Bamster loses in a landslide!
Report Post »WithoutGuile
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:43amhttp://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2006-fair-conference/2006-legal-trials-of-the-prophet-joseph-smiths-life-in-court 200 Suits brought against Joseph Smith… never convicted! Why…because like Romney people just wanted to lie about him because he believed differently. WOW, and it’s still happening …here on the blaze. Get accurate or get out!
Report Post »saranda
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 6:14pm@withoutguile- do some homework outside of LDS propaga, J Smith was convicted. You will find it easily enough if you choose to look.
While at it read a little about the Book of Abraham issues in his “translation”. And while reading bad stuff maybe look up how many version so of the first visit Smith told, all contradictory. While I amateur it, you might look into why Smith applied to join the Methodists a full eight years after his God told him not to join any existing religions as they were all wrong. Too many things to study? Maybe add DNA.
Report Post »jackact
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:05amAt what point did the liberal/progressive ideology morph into the Spanish Inquisition?
Report Post »They refuse to debate on point and principal and them condem as an angry mob.
The constant prejudice and lack of tolerance seems so hypocritical and diminishes any hope of reason.
It took the progressive ideology only 100 years to collapse on its face.
They will not realize what they sacrificed all until the well runs dry.
And that will be soon……
Exiled
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:04amDawkins? Never heard of the guy. I’m trying to figure out why I should care what he thinks.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:13am“Dawkins? Never heard of the guy.”
This is relatively the equivalent of saying “Thomas Aquinas? Never heard of the guy.” I can understand being dismissive of the man’s rhetoric because he intentionally is out to stir up trouble, but if you’ve honestly never heard of him you also probably know absolutely nothing about the atheist movement. As a Christian, I feel we have a duty to know our critics and their arguments in order to respond accurately and factually to them.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:46amLOCKED – i like you.
Report Post »john vincent
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:53amexile
Report Post »To be fair, its helpful to know a little of your opponents view. For instance; the great mind Paul @ Mars Hill used as a springboard the Athenians current thoughts on ‘the unknown god,’ and turned it into an evangelistic masterpiece. On another occaison, he used Roman law to further his mission, either way, having a well rounded and balance of knowledge goes a long way.
ebaybus
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:04amDawkin’s is right, It’s a fact that Joseph Smith was a con man and the entire Mormon religion is a cult. With that being said I am still going to vote for Romney in November because he isn’t a socialist.
It still amazes me that a smart man like Glenn Beck would join such a cult founded by a crook. Please look up good ol Joseph Smith and decide for yourself.
Report Post »WithoutGuile
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:51amIt may amaze you that what Glen would fall for…but it should amaze you to consider what you have fallen for. This atheist is quoting the same lies and anti-mormon hate that your christian fore-fathers spewed over a 150 years ago because they viewed Joseph Smith and his “restored chritianity” as a major threat. They lied about him…and continue to lie to this day… they now actually quote previously published lies…liars quoting liars and convincing themselves that it’s true so they can attack what is different and threatening to their way of thinking or believing. Remember it was the religious leaders who lied about Jesus Christ – he threatened their way, their power, and their authority. They used the Romans/Govt to drive the nails…but their lies drove the Romans. I invite you to stop being a tool of hate and of liars and of the devil. Joseph Smith was not perfect..but he was NEVER convicted of any crimes… though he had nearly 200 suits brought against him… can anyone say “false witness”… it happens hear on the blaze every day…and mostly by so called Christians. Sad.
Report Post »SimpleTruths
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 10:03amBeck joined the cult founded by a con man because birds of feather stick together. Beck was a FM DJ who had a flair and talent for building a following. His job now is just an extension of what was then and is good at, building a following. I‘m wouldn’t be surprised that privately he thinks you all are just a bunch of rubes.
Report Post »nmontague
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 2:48pmActually, it makes perfect sense why an intelligent man Glenn Beck would Join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It’s true.
Read the Book of Mormon. Read the Bible. They will confirm it. Read the testimony of the Prophets and Apostles. Read Joseph Smith’s own words. When you actually look at what they say and not what liars claim they said, you will see the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Report Post »Lonescrapper
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:01amHey, isn’t Nelson Mandela a convicted traitor?
Report Post »nmontague
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 2:49pmOddly, enough, so is Jesus Christ. And we know how accurate that conviction was.
Report Post »mtsnj
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:00amWhat we are suppose to be experts in everyone else religion?
Report Post »Aetheism is a faith they just choose to believe in nothing.
This is just more distractions for a poor presidency..if he was that good run on his record of accomplishments…oh yea there aren’t any
tothepoint
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:17amAtheism is a religion of godlessness.
Report Post »The atheists despise the fact that is true, but it is true nonetheless.
They are religious zealots of godlessness.
conservative beckhater
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:24amLack of belief in something, especially something that cannot be proven, is not a religion no matter how many times ignorant people like yourself make the claim.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:11am“conservative beckhater:“ can tell from your name that we will always get an ”unbiased” opinion…straight from the Obamaloney crowd !
Report Post »JohnLarson
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 7:58amWell.. he’s right. Joseph Smith was a convicted conman and fraud.
I doubt Romney really believes Joseph Smith was a prophet.
And for the people saying why doesn’t Dawkins criticize Islam.. if you’ve ever read him, he does.
Report Post »WithoutGuile
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:40amOver 200 suits were brought against Joseph Smith in his young life (he was killed by an angry mob with painted faces) while supposedly in protective custody. But you are wrong about him being convicted… he never was. http://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2006-fair-conference/2006-legal-trials-of-the-prophet-joseph-smiths-life-in-court He died for what he believed and lived what he believed…and it drove the ignorant masses nuts….because he was prosperous and happy…and never got paid for his preaching.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 9:08amJohn: I don’t know much about Smith, but I do know that many men have been killed on trumpeted up charges and / or by angry mobs. Charges and statements are only as valid as those who make them. Witness the Big Lies from the Obama crowd with all of their phony ” 99%” baloney !
Report Post »SamboCaesar
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 7:47amYou can be sure this coward would never say anything about muhammad. He ain’t good, but he’s slow.
Report Post »JohnLarson
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 7:59amDawkins: “Islam is one of the great evils in the world”
Report Post »Locked
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:15am“You can be sure this coward would never say anything about muhammad. He ain’t good, but he’s slow.”
Actually, he has. Plenty of times. Christianity is just more powerful and prominent in the audiences he caters do, so our faith is more often his focus. He certainly has criticized Islam, however.
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 7:43amrichard dawkins, such a fine, upstanding man. NOT! Good to know you have the financial backing of soros and sickos that follow him. you are in for the shock of your misled life when you discover how wrong you have been and continue to be. you, of course, are “bashing” the wrong folks. Wouldn’t life be easier for us all if no one felt “bashing” others were a viable use of our time and efforts?
Report Post »conservative beckhater
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 8:25amTelling the truth is not bashing. This headline is just another example of why Billy Hallowell is not a real journalist. He writes propaganda and he knows it.
Report Post »nmontague
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 2:50pmAgain, Dawkins didn’t tell the truth. He flat out lied.
Report Post »PATRIOTMAMA
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 7:43amI‘m not going to read this because I’m trying to avoid blood shootig from my eyes this morning. But in response to the title:
I’m so sick of the ENORMOUS double standard these frickin people have in this country. This isn’t about Mormons or Christianity in any form. This is constantly about finding ways to degrade Romney. Ya the Mormon faith may have some pretty weird beginnings I don‘t know for sure as I haven’t actually read up on it. HOWEVER, last time I checked there were some pretty outrageous things said about Mohammed and in the Karan. But none of these “atheists” are going after any Islamic leaders or elected officials. Oh, no, crickets are heard on that side of things. If these people truly don‘t believe there is a God and are going after any religion that is pushing itself onto the American people who don’t believe in it, then where are you on ISLAM??!!!! Either have the same standards for all or sit down and SHUT UP!!!
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 7:51amLike your post and agree with the “sitting down and shutting up” part!
Report Post »Lonescrapper
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 7:56amIf Jeremiah Wright has no place in the discussion about Obama’s fitness to serve, certainly Joseph Smith doesn’t when it comes to Mitt Romney. Romney, at least, did not sit in a church listening to Joseph Smith.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on August 9, 2012 at 11:32pm[But none of these “atheists” are going after any Islamic leaders or elected officials.]
Dawkins does debate Muslims but he’s not going to say something so stupid as to be murdered by them like you wish for. I don’t know why every atheist is “required” to go after a religion that isn’t prominent in their culture.
I remember Dawkins in a video or two saying he thinks Obama is an Atheist and he’s just “hiding” it. Well that would just mean he’s lying to everyone about it. Why would I vote for a liar? At least be honest about where you stand.
I’ll take a honest Mormon over a lying Black Liberation Theologists any day. However I am not voting for Romney so much as against Obama.
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