Atheists Begin Organizing High School Campus Clubs for Teens
- Posted on July 2, 2012 at 7:35am by
Billy Hallowell
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Atheism is now working its way into public high schools. In a move that’s certain to spawn debate, The Secular Student Alliance (SSA), an organization that works to organize and spread atheism among young people, is working feverishly to bring non-believing clubs to American students. Known for its more than 300 chapters on college campus, the student group is poised to create a rival to the religious organizations that already reside in many public schools.
Already, these student-led groups are growing, mostly because starting a group is simple and interest is increasing. The SSA provides information and guidance to the pupils and then they organize individual chapters. At the beginning of the 2011-2o12 school year, Religion News Service reports that there were only about a dozen clubs across America.
But, this number has now grown to 39 clubs in 17 states — a pretty startling figure when you consider the potential upward trajectory. And 73 students from diverse areas across the nation have requested SSA “starter kits” since January — a fact that will likely lead to even more clubs in the near future. According to the SSA web site, here’s what the kit includes:
- A spiral-bound copy of our 70-page Group Running Guide
- Additional materials on getting your group started
- Neon flyers with contact information for your group
- Thumbtacks to hang the flyers
- Secular Student Alliance brochures, stickers and pens [...]
- We create a “YourSchool@secularstudents.org” address for your group. This e-mail address won’t have a mailbox you have to check – it simply forwards everything sent to it to the e-mail address you used to sign up for the GSP. Learn more at our Email and Web Forwards page.
- We create a page on our website dedicated to your school. This site will link to your Facebook group and e-mail address, as well as other pages on our site that offer information about who we are and what we can do for your group. (See our Sample Website)
J.T. Eberhard, the director of SSA’s high school program, believes that these clubs will be a positive experience for non-believing students. He also claims that they open up positive discussion avenues.
“I am hoping that atheist students having their clubs and religious students having their clubs will promote dialogue,” Eberhard said. “I also hope it will let the atheist students know that you can be an atheist and its okay. You are still a good person. We want to say: Here is a place where you can feel that.”
Considering the ripe group of young people who are more questioning and critical of religion, this is a potential area for atheists to use to bring non-belief more into the mainstream (numerous polls of late have shown Millennials to be the most unbelieving generation we’ve seen).
RNS notes that a recent Pew Forum for Religion and Public Life study (April 2012) found that nearly seven in 10 Millennials “never doubt the existence of God.” While this may seem like a positive indicator for believers, the proportion is down 15 points since 2007.
“Some clubs exist in states that have large numbers of people who claim no religious affiliation, such as New York, Washington and California,” the Huffington Post reports. “Others are located in more religion-centered states, with North Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana and Texas all claiming at least one high school with a club for atheists.”
While these high school clubs are controversial, most schools will need to comply to allow them, seeing as a 1984 law — the Equal Access Act — guarantees that, if publicly-funded schools allow one club, they must allow them all. You can read more about the SSA’s atheist clubs here.
(H/T: Religion News Service)
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Comments (200)
edwest70
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 1:22pmSo many of the old sheep know the truth now, but are too invested and not willing to admit it to their children. These clubs would be great windows of opportunity.
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 1:50pmYes. Hopefully the younger generation will be the grown ups and put the fairy-tales to rest.
Report Post »Dano.50
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 5:16pmYou know, I don’t see Christian groups hauling Athiests into court for hanging their posters on the wall or promoting their belief in and on public property.
And I have seen none of your organization leaders ever publicly condem such actions, telling your more radical members, to leave people of other beliefs alone.” The vast majority of you publicly insult anybody who believes.
And while I always see Athiest groups targeting the likes of Christian and Jewish groups, I’ve yet to see one of you show the guts to take on that “Religion of Peace” Islam claims to be.
The truth is, until you show more bravado than somebully in the school yard who’s yet to have his nose bloodied, why not just admit you’re a gutless bunch of hypocrites?
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 6:29pmYet you Marxists have no problem with the government providing for you losers from cradle to grave.
weisja4
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 6:37pm@Dano.50
First, the reason you don‘t see atheist groups being hauled before the courts is they don’t do things like put religious symbols on public ground or try to bring prayer into school. There are no “beliefs” associated with atheism to “hang on the wall”
to your other point about Islam, i‘d recommend you read Sam Harris’s book “The End of Faith” (i know it should be italics, but I don’t see a way to do that here). The book does exactly what you claim atheist are too afraid to do. Also, it is just a very good read. I think you be surprised at how critical he is to Islam.
Report Post »db321
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:05pmI love the new Faith Editor of the Blaze, Billy Holiday. I’m glad Glenn has the guts to hire a person who wants to throw God out of this Country. It’s about time! Yes, High Schools, Junior High, and Elementary Schools should teach Atheists and Muslim Sharia Law in all our schools. God has been in this Country way too long and look at the mess we are in because of it
Atheists are powerful, just 13% of the population kicked Prayer out of our schools and look how good our Schools and kids are now. America owes a huge debt of Gratitude to every Atheist that voted prayer out.
I am glad that Billy Holiday is bringing these Atheist and Demonic articles to the Blaze, I was really getting tire of all of those articles from those goody two shoes Christians that think America belongs to God Alone.
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:18pmGIT
Report Post »I don’t have a scorecard, so remind me … who are the Marxists?
ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:36pmHowdy DB.
Report Post »Do you really think that Atheists (all 13% of them) voted prayer out of school? Is that the way you understand it?
My understanding is that the United States of America is NOT a democracy. Amen and thank-the-imaginary-Deity-of-your-choice!
The USofA is a Constitutional Republic, and therefore ought not to be subject to the kind of mob rule that a simple democracy often permits.
In fact, the “tyranny of majorities” is something the Founders expressly sought to avoid. This is something you will desperately appreciate should those who adhere to your faith ever constitute less than a majority in your country. Particularly if a majority should ever be — gulp — Muslims.
Yep, thank Zeus Almighty for individual rights and the “L” word … Liberty.
Dale
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:24pmweisja4
“First, the reason you don‘t see atheist groups being hauled before the courts is they don’t do things like put religious symbols on public ground or try to bring prayer into school. There are no “beliefs” associated with atheism to “hang on the wall”” Is that why you guy buy billboard space, because you don‘t have ’beliefs‘ to ’hand on the wall’? Your logic just leaves me breathless. The American majority is religious (boo hoo for you), more specifically Christian. The only way you have any effect is going to court and claim some sort of offense – how can you be offended by something you don’t believe? (See, I just don’t get your logic). Anyway have a nice evening, and don’t try over thinking your weak, illogical, and dangerous “beliefs” – don’t stretch something vital. AND please, don’t try forcing your philosophy on me – I reject it; take me to court!
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:37pmDANO.50 — the reason you do not see Christians hauling atheists for hanging up posters is because a poster on a bulletin-board advertising a club is far different than a SCHOOL-ENDORSED statement of religion. There are Christian groups in school who are free to advertise, and do, their meeting and activities in school.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:40pmDB — prayer was not removed; students are free to pray as they choose. However, the SCHOOL cannot force anyone to pray.
That is what you are really upset about.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:41pmCONSERVATIVECANUKLEHEAD — according to GIT-R-DONE, anyone who does not agree with him 100% is a Marxist.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 2:55amCanucklehead – You’re the one making the same statements that the Bolsheviks made in 1917 when they took power. And your country is very dependent upon the government to take care of you from cradle to grave yet you lecture us Christians about independent thinking.
Bruce – How dare I not bow down to the tolerance gestapo.
Report Post »Mark A. Stelter
Posted on July 4, 2012 at 4:22pmChristians will not be suing any atheist clubs anytime soon, I am sure. We believe in free speech and free thought, and are confident that the truth will win out after careful and thoughtful deliberation. I wish atheists gave Christian student organizations the same respect…but then again, maybe they know that truth will win out, and that what frightens them.
Report Post »–Mark A. Stelter, author of The Gospel According to Christ: The Message of Jesus and How We Missed It
guz75
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:59am@RAFFAK
Report Post »Ok, pretty much the point I was trying to make – minus the diplomacy! LOL
Not sure where diplomacy’s got me in the past, maybe I should take a leaf out of your book.
Tax Revolt
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:27amThis is a load of crap. If they allow atheists to have a club on campus in public schools then all religions should be allowed to have a club. Atheism in of itself is a religion. It is a religion of ones self. You are worshiping yourself instead of a GOD.
Report Post »TAC616
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:43amUm, they do. There’s nothing stopping students starting clubs for whatever religion they fancy.
Report Post »IslandAtheist
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:59amYou should read the article before you comment.
Report Post »tmbell87
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 12:01pm@TAX Revolt, We can have our disagreements about theistic and non-theistic beliefs, but you are dead wrong about there being no religious clubs in schools. I understand that you believe atheists like myself are doomed to eternal damnation and fiery torment, but religious freedom goes both ways. I take no issue with religious extra-curricular clubs in school, so you should not be offended if the non-religious have clubs of their own. If you are a true supporter of freedom then you need to be able to defend people who hold views different than your own. Because if you are able to subjugate them and coerce them into your world view, what is to stop someone from doing the same to you when the power changes hands?
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 12:57pmAs long as they don’t stop any certain faith from having a group on campus, I’m not against it. Athiest, Christian, Muslim, whatever. That’s the difference between us and them. As long as you aren’t cramming it down my throat, I don’t care what you do. MY KID will not be joining any atheist group, but they’re free to associate with their own kind if they want to.
Report Post »edwest70
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 1:29pmTotally, and if they expect them to learn all this, they should give them a break for lunch! And a place to put their books, like a storage compartment of some sort!!
Report Post »Grubmeister
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 2:36pmCan you please show me anything…ANYTHING that indicates atheists worship themselves? As an atheist, I “rely” on myself. I sometimes rely on, and even trust, other people. I may even rely on myself to trust you. I do not however worship myself. I know myself and in no way, shape or form do I consider myself qualified to be worshipped. I also have a wife who will strongly support that statement.
Report Post »I am supposing the vast majority of atheists feel the same way.
To be fair, make sure your source it isn’t just one nutjob. It would be terribly dishonest for you to to try to paint us all with the paintbrush of Manson, Mao, Hitler or someone similar. We’d probably hold it against you for some time. You could even say we would choose not to trust you as you’d shown yourself to be unreliable.
davecorkery
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 3:52pmWrong. Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour. We don’t “worship” anyone or any magical sky daddy. The kids aren’t as afraid of life as you are. Darwin’s theory is continuing, with people who do negative things (religion) dying out and the more intelligent will survive.
Report Post »GBMBulletsSKNRD
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:22pmTax Revolt,
Bingo Tax. You said it all.
Report Post »paperpushermj
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:52pmGRUBMEISTER
“Can you please show me anything…ANYTHING that indicates atheists worship themselves? As an atheist, I “rely” on myself”
Report Post ».
How about you mentioning “I ” eight times in this post?.
Git-R-Done
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 6:30pmDavecorkery – The Bolsheviks said the same thing you did when they set up their atheist society in 1917 and look at how that turned out.
Report Post »weisja4
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 6:39pmRight, there are tons of religious groups, such as the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Young Life, First Priority, etc.
Also, atheism is not a religion….not even a little bit.
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 6:39pm@Tac – Uh – no they don’t. Muslims and Jews are allowed clubs, but Christians are NOT allowed to have clubs.
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 6:41pm@weisja4 – The SP has ruled that atheism is, indeed, a religion.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:48pmFROM VIRGINIA — you are absolutely right, schools do not allow Christian student groups…
…except for ALL the Christian student groups in schools.
Report Post »Grubmeister
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 4:30amPaperpushmj
And that’s all you got out of my post???
sigh…
Report Post »anomnomnommm
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 10:52am@Tax_Revolt
They do allow them…
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:46amTo ALL the non-believers—GENEVA (AP) — Scientists working at the world’s biggest atom smasher plan to announce Wednesday that they have gathered enough evidence to show that the long-sought “God particle” answering fundamental questions about the universe almost certainly does exist.—–More to come later?
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:51amUm, you know that’s just a silly name that the media gives the particle to increase interest, right? It’s really called the Higgs Boson.
Report Post »Tax Revolt
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:36amNot to mention it is still a theory. The data they have only shows “footprints” of the particle. The scientists have yet to discover it. It is like searching for bigfoot. Many plaster molds of his footprints, but no physical proof.
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:44am@NJBarFly—I’ll be sure to tell them so when the next article comes out they will correct or acknowledge the momentous error.
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:49am@njbarfly—GENEVA (The Blaze/AP) — It might seem that every couple months over the last year, scientists have been claiming to be just a little closer to finding the Higgs Boson — more informally known as the “God Particle.” This Wednesday though, the wait could (un)officially be over.
Report Post »Silly name?.
Happy now?
ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 12:10pmIt is called the god partial because a publisher wanted it changed – it was originally called the God (Thing that holds back lots of water) particle.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 12:12pmThanks Bikerr
Report Post »Grubmeister
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 2:39pmUsually when they mention the so called “God Particle”, they also tell you it is a phrase that makes nearly all physicists wince.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:46pmThere‘s another topic for this fella’s
Report Post »paperpushermj
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:38amWhats the point of having a club on Campus whose sole mission is they are against something. What could they find that is a positive message other then “Rejoice for you are a Non-Believer” Big Whoop!
Report Post »Leader1776
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:39amI was President of our high school chess club. POHSCC, not POTUS. We were against checkers.
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 2:03pmIn the words of that great philosopher Austin Powers, “It’s about freedom baby, yeah!”
Report Post »Freedom from delusional thinking. Freedom from ancient mythologies and childish fair-tales. Freedom is a good thing. Right?
teapotagnostic
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 3:04pmThere are anti-hate groups, anti-bully groups, and many other kinds of groups on campus. There are bible study groups on campus. These are set up by students for students. I find it curious how many people think that atheists are hate filled and bitter people. This is usually far from the truth. Many of us would love a dialogue with religious people that wouldn’t end with. “Well you are going to burn in hell!” We have reasoned and rational ideas on why we don’t believe in god. It is not faith, it is not a religion. Many of us have no strong dislike of religious people. I encourage everyone who ever lost contact with someone over atheism, be it friend or family member. Open up and talk to us, the odds are we still love you and want to be there in your life. I know that I would love for those in my family who disowned me to still be around.
Report Post »paperpushermj
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:28pmHead:
Report Post »Your also free not to take a lamaze Class. So are you against Lamaze classes. What’s that you say “No one is requiring you to take a lamaze class” Point being who is requiring you to participate in any faith based event?
We all do things to define who we are to others, maybe your one of those who has to show the world how cool you are by blaring your music to the rest of us thru open car windows. so you are a non-beliver and see that as a defining point, great but why insult and try to diminish what others do as a way of saying to us “This is who I Am”?
paperpushermj
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:39pmteapot:
Report Post »I also am Agnostic although I describe myself as a “Hopeful Agnostic” Meaning I don’t know for sure if there is a God but I hope there is One. I find your statement below curious
.
“I find it curious how many people think that atheists are hate filled and bitter people”.
.
When most Atheists define or announce their Atheism by attacking the faith Community.
ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:22pmPAPER
Report Post »Uhhh, what the heck are you talkin about?
Bruce P.
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:55pmWhy start a campus group that is against something? Well, doesn’t that describe a Christian student group?
Just joking.
In all seriousness, there is far more to it than simply being against the idea of god. Such a group provides mutual support for members, moving in a country that tells them they are evil, immoral, etc. It provides fellowship. A place to discuss the philosophies of their belief.
Report Post »paperpushermj
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 12:13amHead:
Report Post »Take your time, no ones counting, take as many times as you need until you get it.
paperpushermj
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 12:35amBruce:
Report Post »Could you entertain the idea that a Significant majority in the faith community could-care-less if a person is a believer or not. No one cared UNTILL some within the Atheist Community started taking pot shots at them. I said some because I believe the majority of people who don’t believe do so quietly. Some self appointed leaders find purpose in bear baiting the Faith community so If your feelings become bruised because they say something to you, i’m sure you will understand. Let those who speak in your name know you want them to stop… or… except the return arrows..
ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 12:40pmPAPER
Report Post »The response you addressed to me, to my comment, makes no sense because it has nothing to do with my comment. I didn’t say anything about being forced to take certain classes or join certain clubs. I never mentioned being forced to participate in any faith-based events, though that may sometimes happen. Then you ranted on about blaring music (prolly that evil rap music, huh) thru open car windows. Really, what are you talking about???
All I said was that forming a group (like the Atheist club) is just one of those groovy rights that we get to enjoy in a free society. And I think that’s a bit of all right. Don’t you?
AnimalsAsLeaders
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:20amWhy is this news? There are all sorts of theology-related clubs in high schools. Plus, there already are a bunch of athiest groups in high schools – you’re at least 10 years behind the ball on this one… Freedom of religion means freedom to have no religion as well. No controversy here, people are free to organize and believe as they wish – that’s what makes america great.
Report Post »ProbIemSoIver
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:40am“The Secular Student Alliance (SSA), an organization that works to organize and spread atheism among young people, is working feverishly to bring non-believing clubs to American students.”
“spread Atheism” ?
“working feverishly” ?
If they had any respect for others people’s rights they would just form a group, that like-minded could join, without “Speading” or “Working feverishly”.
This is a group of “evangelical” athiests.
I am a libertarian that teeters between athiest and agnostic, but I respect other people’s right to live in peace.
As long as you don’t Violate my rights, I could care less what you believe.
Report Post »tmbell87
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 12:08pm@PROBLEM SOLVER,
Report Post »Are you seriously judging atheists for trying to spread what they believe to be true? How is that any different from any religious group? I agree that the notion of spreading atheism is stupid. Considering I am an atheist myself, I have no desire to convert other people to my world view. Because my non-belief is for me and no one else. It is my personal relationship with the world so having others join me is not my goal. My goal is to understand the world the best that I can and if I have like-minded individuals at my side, then great. My problem with the “atheist movement” is the fact that many of them are a bunch of crazy, progressive leftists.
ProbIemSoIver
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 1:20pmtmbell87
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 12:08pm
@PROBLEM SOLVER,
Are you seriously judging atheists for trying to spread what they believe to be true? How is that any different from any religious group?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I believe in Judge and be Judged. I judge people, and people are free to judge me as long as they don’t violate my inalienable rights.
I don’t condone religious evangelicals either.
Although you almost touched on a point that makes me reflect on my actions.
I am evangelical in the sense that I try and “Spread” the truth here at the Blaze.
I guess this is no different than a religious person or an athiest trying to spread what they believe to be true.
As long as their is no financial gain from such an action, and it is done with the best of intentions
to help their fellow man, than I am for “feverishly working to spread the truth”.
I am usally opposed to these alliances and movements because they are usually done for social and economic reasons and nefarious agendas.
My intentions are to free people from being involuntary debt slaves to a global elite, and being able to be free and prosper.
I have no intention of social (power) or economic gain.
Report Post »bmb776
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:16amWho cares? Let teens decide what they want for themselves. They are young adults more than capable of reasoning and critical thinking. If Religion strikes their fancy, great! If they don’t see the evidence for a creator and choose to be atheistic, agnostic, etc great! Indoctrination doesn’t just happen in public school or universities; it happens in churches, mosques, temples, and every other house of worship. Instead of being so wrapped up in our kids believing hook, line, and sinker everything we do, we should allow them to make-up their own minds.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:57pmBecause allowing them to do what they want, to find their own path in regards to religion, prevents followers of a particular religion from forcing their beliefs on the kids.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 3:12amBruce – But you don’t complain about lefties or other secular groups forcing their beliefs onto others.
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 12:56pmGIT
Report Post »I think you’re really gonna have to ditch this idea that Atheists are all closet-communists.
I’ve seen no evidence of this in my social experiences, and I’ve seen no evidence of it here on these discussion boards.
I, for one, am as fiercely free-enterprise and fiscally conservative as they come.
I believe the glory of the U-S-of-A is that she was designed to be a Constitutional Republic which protects personal liberty and individual rights, rather than a clumsy and sometimes cruel democracy that subjects its citizens to the tyranny of a majority. These are things I fear you do not truly value.
Gonzo
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:14amI started reading “The Harbinger” last night. If you’re a Christian and a patriot, I defy you to read it without weeping.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:21amGonzo…….Did you know that on June 14, 2012 Obama signed the beam that will become the final and highest beam of the new tower with these words……We Remember, We Rebuild, We come Back Stronger.
Report Post »According to Jonathan Cahn that brings the prophecy of defiance full circle. I have a link about this if you are interested.
TheLeftMadeMeRight
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:13amIt’s the same way they brought “it’s ok to be gay” into the schools….
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:01amSince being gay is an abomination to God, then by definition, being gay is already proclaiming yourself an atheist.
Report Post »edwest70
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 1:14pmAnd let those blacks in too!
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 2:06pmNice one Ed.
Report Post »weisja4
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 6:45pm@Git-R-Done
You realize the very notion of a “Marxist Dictatorship” is an impossibility right? Do you even know what Marxism is? How about the difference between Marxism, Communism and Fascism? Do everyone a favor, read up a bit on different political ideologies before you start throwing them around. It just makes you look dumb.
Thanks
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 12:05amWEISJA4 — let him continue on the way he is. Let him expose himself.
I’ve complained to the Blaze moderators about how he addresses other posters; he cannot do so without using ad hominems. They have yet to take any action.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 3:10amWesja4 – Only somebody with no brain would think that Marxism would work voluntarily.
Bruce – So much for you being a freedom of speech supporter. No surprise that you don‘t like people who dare to say anything you don’t like.
Report Post »jungle J
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:00amfreedom.
Report Post »ProbIemSoIver
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:18amWhy can’t we focus on our many commonalities, and quit obsessing over our few differerences ?
This Country was designed so that we could all do what we wanted in peace, unless we violated someone else’s rights.
Someone practicing their religion, does not violate you or your constitutional rights.
Someone not believing in god, does not violate you or your constitutional rights.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:25pm“It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my bones if my neighbor believes in twenty Gods or no Gods.” Thomas Jefferson
But lead by example for the ones who believe in no God. Be a pillar of your community, be the light of humanity, and always ask others to walk with you.
Report Post »fatfreetoothpaste
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:59amTo the person above who said teachers are underpaid and hardworking.
That’s a lie.
Teachers are way overpaid. They work 9 mos a year. Most do not work extra hours. In many cases have stellar health plans and pensions.
In addition, many of them aren’t very smart, let alone good teachers.
I know this, because I taught school for 10 years. Public school teachers and are among the dumbest people I’ve ever met. They are for the most part, resistant to change, usually overly emotional and unprofessional when dealing with any kind of criticism.
Report Post »ProbIemSoIver
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:25amSchool teachers would be smart to show this 3 minute film to their students:
This is more education in 3 minutes, than some learn in a lifetime.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RewUP-Fdhqk
Report Post »ProbIemSoIver
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:32am*then :p
Report Post »TAC616
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:58amYes, call me a liar, way to win me over to your side.
-Teachers are way overpaid. They work 9 mos a year
Good on paper. Not in reality. If you want to get paid for the summer months, it comes out of your paycheck for the “regular” nine months.
I‘m sorry you’ve had such a negative experience with public teachers, but my experiences with them have never been anything like that. One of my teachers in high school was truly an idiot and everyone in the class knew it, but the rest were dedicated people who really cared about the students. Or at least managed to fake it well enough.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:32pmI’m 18, and I’ve truly only felt an intellectual “buzz” when listening to Mr. Beck, which is why I’m here. I dearly miss his TV show. My whole view of life was changed after just a few months of watching it. But I didn’t just let Glenn alone tell me what to think, I educated myself. I studied literature (C.S. Lewis is my favorite author, Beowulf my favorite story) and this sort of educational empowerment was not shown to me by my teachers unfortunately.
Boring story about myself aside….
So maybe my experience was not very positive. They were good people though, some underpaid (at first however) like you said. But I could tell they tried their best. Like you’ve previously said Tac, it’s the Department of Education, and the public school system model that are flawed, not just all of their employees. It would be a delight to see the accomplished ones co-opted by private institutions in a great vacuum should the DoE ever be dismantled.
Report Post »RamonPreston
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:53amBut you can NOT have a Bible study on school grounds. Or mention God; grounds for termination. I was.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:27amYeah, actually you can. There are many groups like “See You at the Flag Pole” where high school kids meet at the flag pole and pray and talk about who’s going to hell and do whatever other exciting stuff you Christians like to do. It‘s just teacher led prayer that isn’t allowed and rightfully so.
Report Post »Dde13
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:09am@NJBARFLY
Report Post »Have you ever been to a“see at the flag pole da”? I doubt it!!!! It takes place before school starts.We sings songs, share our testimonies and give prais to our lord Jesus Christ. If you think Christians sit around and talk about people going to Hell you are one lost puppy. I’m a Teacher and along with other teachers we join in with the students to give praise. It’s once a year. There is a Christian Club as well on campus that meets after school once a month. Just because you choose not to believe that’s your call, but for me and my family we choose to believe. Your rightfully so comment is way off the mark, I see kids reading bibles during lunch I here kids have discussions about their faiths. A lot of Christian activities happen without Teachers leading the way.
NJBarFly
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:13amDde13 – I honestly don’t care what you do at those flag pole gatherings. I was simply stating that Christian clubs ARE allowed to meet in public schools. And apparently, you just backed up what I said. There is a myth that prayer has been taken out of schools. Clearly, kids are praying, reading the bible, and forming Christian groups.
Report Post »jeffile
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:16amThere is nothing wrong with teacher led prayer. The first amendment reads”Congress shall make no law. Simply put, it means they cannot create a mandated national religion. I think the writers of the Constitution knew what they meant and that is exactly what they meant. In fact, at the time of the writing of the Constitution, many states had a religion they supported. There is nothing about public display of nativity scenes, the Ten Commandments or any other religious icon. There is nothing wrong with a school having any religious symbols or even teaching the specifics of a religion. It’s called freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. You ought to do your own research and see how much the writers participated in public religious activities including activities in government buildings,*
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:19am“But you can NOT have a Bible study on school grounds.”
What? Of course you can. And by “you” I mean “student-led groups,” the same as those talked about with atheist students in this article.
“Or mention God; grounds for termination. I was.”
Oh, yeah, in that case you’re right. You cannot have a teacher on the government dime preaching to children about religion or against it.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:23amjeffile – Fortunately, the Supreme Court disagrees with you. Being that they decide what is constitutional and what isn’t, that would make you wrong. What Jeffile thinks the constitution means is irrelevant.
Report Post »Dde13
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:30am@ fly
Report Post »Then I must understood the part were you said “who’s going to hell and do whatever other exciting stuff you Christians like to do.
jeffile
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:45amI’m sorry but I do believe in the Constitution. Based upon your statement of belief in the SC rather than the constitution I have to assume you believe the Dread Scott decisions were constitutional and good. The problem with courts is they rule based upon case law not constitutional law. The first amendment is quite clear concerning not allowing Congress to authorize a national religion and also they CANNOT stop someone from practicing their own religious beliefs. However, there is nothing which states an atheist can force their non belief on me as well as me forcing my beliefs on others.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:57am@Jeffile – “I assume you believe the Dread Scott decisions were constitutional and good.”
The Dread Scott decision WAS constitutional. Because the supreme court decides what is constitutional and what is not, Congress AMENDED the Constitution. Due to the 13, 14 and 15 amendments, the decision is no longer constitutional.
“The problem with courts is they rule based upon case law not constitutional law.”
Um, no, the Supreme Court makes decisions based on constitutional law.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:49pmWe had only one non-secular group at my old school, “The Fellowship of Christian Athletes” (sports and holiness mix like beer and peanuts) but they were required to meet off campus. Maybe it’s not that way in all schools, but mine did.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 6:33pmNJ is stupid enough to believe that the courts use the Constitution to interpret law.
The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:05amI see no issue with presenting all the information available. Though its unclear what should be dOne about public schools. As of late, I’ve heard nothing but glowing reports about home schooling (8 grade levels above average reading, wow) and of course public schools are still terrible and sometimes even unsafe.
They say love of money is the root of unhappiness. And it seems that public employed teacher’s only concern is about money and their pensions rather than the education of their students. Teaching is a calling, not a job.
Report Post »TAC616
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:16amDo any of you blaming the avarice of teachers actually, you know, know any? I haven’t met any public teachers that could be described as making enough money to be more than lower middle class. And I do mean LOWER. Public teaching pays crap, has brutal hours, and only mediocre benefits. This BS about teachers ruining us has got to stop, it’s propaganda, misdirecting rage from the real problems.
Report Post »Leader1776
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:02am@TAC616
You’re joking, right? Public school teachers for the most part are highly overpaid for the product/service they provide. Their salary is for 9 months and some have unbelievable benefit packages. (Add obligatory ‘…… not all teachers BLAH, BLAH, BLAH’ – HERE.) Many have no qualms using all sick days whether they need to or not. Some have ELECTIVE surgery during the school year.
The US spends per classroom and pupil much more than just about any other country while putting out illiterate graduates. Yes, I know, we can blame liberal/progressives for the dumbing down of children/curriculums. But to say teachers are somehow under-paid and THAT is a travesty in American schools is a lie and has nothing to do with the plight of our children and their education.
Three possibilities TAC616: (1) you’re a teacher ….. and not a good one; or (2) a union thug trying to protect your outrageous thug salary; (3) YOU don’t know any/many teachers or haven’t put children through schools.
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:08amTAC, the average teacher salary here is $56,000.00. If you add in benefits, total compensation comes to $100,005.00 The district pays $0.72 per dollar earned by the teacher towards their pension, versus an average of $0.24 per private sector. Cry me a river about under paid 9 month a year employees that public school, teachers are.
Report Post »TAC616
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:14am@LEADER
-Public school teachers for the most part are highly overpaid for the product/service they provide.-
First thing, preparing our children for the future is, what, a minor service?
-Their salary is for 9 months and some have unbelievable benefit packages.
Yes, and ONLY those 9 months unless you have money set aside for summer. During summer, you get NOTHING. How is this part even an issue? As for the benefits, some have nice benefits. Some.
-Many have no qualms using all sick days whether they need to or not.
I’ve found being a bad employee to be a rather human trait, hardly reserved for teachers.
-The US spends per classroom and pupil much more than just about any other country while putting out illiterate graduates.
I’m sorry, but… ********.
Source? Then why is Education regularly the first thing on the chopping block when it comes time to do the budget? The only reason my high school even HAD a drama/music department AT ALL was because the teacher who ran it promised 20 years previously that if they let her have it, she would NEVER ask for money for it again. Anything they wanted to do(trips, supplies, etc) they had to fund themselves.
-Three possibilities TAC616: (1) you’re a teacher ….. and not a good one; or (2) a union thug trying to protect your outrageous thug salary; (3) YOU don’t know any/many teachers or haven’t put children through schools
Report Post »This I’ll respond next post, hit the size limit.
TAC616
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:28amThree possibilities TAC616: (1) you’re a teacher ….. and not a good one; or (2) a union thug trying to protect your outrageous thug salary; (3) YOU don’t know any/many teachers or haven’t put children through schools.
1) Screw you. Seriously. You don’t know me or anything about what I do. For the record, no I’m not a teacher myself. I didn’t start throwing out the old Ad Hominems, but that’s about par for the course here…
2)See 1. No, I’m not part of any union, of any kind.
3) My mother is a teacher. For more than 20 years.
Yes, I’ll admit bias because of that, but her and most of the people around her I’ve met are NOTHING like you any of you describe. She doesn’t make anywhere in the range of money you describe and works 12+ hour days rather frequently, regularly has to work weekends, and doesn’t get overtime for it.
Treating teachers as the enemy is not helping. It‘s the system itself that’s broken.
Report Post »Leader1776
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 12:04pm@TAC
I take it back. I do. You’re none of the three choices. You’re a 20-something with little life experience or perspective. You do respect your mother and defend her position. However, you do nothing to counter the arguments here.
Your description of your mother’s work ethic is laudable. However, she is nothing special as far as what she has to do to make a living today. However, what we do know is that if she’s a bad teacher (not saying she is) nothing will happen to her or she heads to the infamous rubber room with full pay.
The era is over where teachers, only because that is their chosen profession, are praiseworthy. Like so many other liberal/progressive/union boondoggles, the taxpayers have been taxed to death getting illiterates coming our of our public schools. Of course, not all are illiterates, and teachers are NOT the only issue in the equation. Nonetheless, TAC, the numbers are not in your favor.
Having put four children up through and completion of college, we’ve praised good public school teachers and climbed on the bad ones. We’ve read their textbooks and tutored them. We were involved all along the chain up to the school board level and seen the inner workings. Your Mother’s chosen profession aside, please, no lectures ………. doubt you have the knowledge to defend your position.
And the ‘screw you’ ……… does your mother teach that?
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:22pmHey, hey none of that. Tac has said that the system is in need of a solution. There’s something you two can agree on.
Report Post »Freedom1984
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:53amUgh…. more Atheists…… GOD WHERE ARE YOU????? sigh……………..
Report Post »raffak
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:07amIn your imagination.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:45amgive it more time. He may respond in another couple thousand years.
Report Post »commonsensefreethinker1
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:50amYep that’s right folks! Quit trying to pound your imaginary god into our kids heads. After all if it were real history it would be in the text books and taught every day, but when there is no proof or facts to back it up then that pig just won’t fly. All you have is an old book and had to build your own fictitious schools (churches) so that you could twist the minds of the weak and needy.So just do us all a favor and stay in your little jesus shelter of a world and keep it to yourselves.
Report Post »USACommoner
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:19amI think we ought to stop pounding the imaginary theory of “evolution” into our kids’ heads, too. Whatcha think about that…? This theory also has no facts or truths to back it up, but all you people INSIST it HAS to be true. Boo-ya.
Report Post »TheLeftMadeMeRight
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:25am“Quit trying to pound your imaginary god into our kids heads.”
Nobody is trying to pound anything into “your” kids heads. In fact, I met your kids the other day. They were the ones screaming in the restaurant because they didn’t get the color of crayon the other one had.
So why don’t YOU stop spreading your atheist HATE! If you can’t believe or understand something that others have, others enjoy, others turn to in times of joy and trouble, then you whine and cry and post on websites you know you are not welcome on. Well go call your mommy and ask her for a ew BIG box of crayons….
Report Post »commonsensefreethinker1
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:00amThat’s funny, I never mentioned anything about evolution or wanting crayons, and you people take the bible word for word literally. HMMM! and my post was only 30 mins. old but you believe a book that was on he said she said accounts written over a period of 1500 years. Point proven that you are quite gullible. BTW my (kids) have not used crayons for many years so it wasn’t mine you saw in your imaginary restaurant setting.
Report Post »jeffile
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:31amCommonsensefreethinker:
Report Post »If you didn’t get the gist of what the the person who responded was saying then you are being disingenuous. Then again many people fail to understand what the simplicity of written text in the bible declares. You seem to believe in nothing but that is alright, that is your right. The real question is why are you, and others, get so upset when another group wishes to talk about their beliefs?
Git-R-Done
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 2:57amThey’re the same as the Bolsheviks in 1917. They act like they‘re doing something that’s never been done before when they’re doing the same thing as what the Bolsheviks did in 1917.
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 4:47pmI’m gonna try a group/thread response.
FREEDOM
Yeah, the Deity is like REALLY hard to find. (I can’t find him/her/it anywhere.)
RAFFAK
Nice one. Pithy.
PHILLY
Freedom and his friends are perfectly willing to wait that long. There patience endureth forever.
COMMONSENSEFREETHINKER1
“The fool says in his heart, I will quote scripture to prove my some point.” They do it all the time.
USACOMMONER
“Boo-ya.” I couldn’t possibly add anything to that.
THELEFT
Why do you believers always do stuff like that? You immediately jump to how evolution is like totally ridiculous, and how Atheists are all hate-filled Communists who worship themselves. To quote the philosopher, Will Ferrell, “Yer just coming off as stupid.” (Step Brothers)
COMMONSENSEFREETHINKER1
Keep laughing brother. The time of fairy-tale believing, delusional minds may finally be passing.
JEFFILE
Oh yeah, this is the other one … Atheists believe in “nothing”. Ironically, that’s one way of describing what Atheists think you “believe” in.
GIT-R-DONE
Report Post »Bolsheviks! By all means GIT, stay on guard against those dang Bolsheviks!
Only thing is … all the Atheists I know are free-enterprise Conservatives. Weird, huh?
lgccac
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:43amSatan is very busy in this country these days, folks.
Mat_24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come
Report Post »commonsensefreethinker1
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:55amu, oh! lookout,
Report Post »more scripture .uuugh, I forgot because it is written therefore it is real. Damn!
their good.
phillyatheist
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:55ambig guy, red suit, horns and a tail? he went thataway ===>
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:54pmMr. Philly, I know a great book for you, “Paradise Lost”. It doesn‘t have that ’religious hooey‘ you don’t like because it’s read like a novel. Although it’s about God and Lucifer, it’s purely metaphorical. It puts an entirely new spin on the garden of Eden story, and it has powerful lessons about good and evil.
It’s no mistake that John Milton (the author) described Lucifer as originally being the favorite angel of God. Because all evil begins in the human heart. Evil is not something lurking out there, it is not found without, but within. I highly recommend it.
Report Post »Silversmith
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:41amIt’s strange to me, this need in atheism to “be” something. “WE DON”T BELIEVE WE – DON“T BELIEVE” It’s passionate about a non action. They really really really don’t believe. In fact, if they believed, they’d be zealots. I also think that, in time, this atheist movement will become ugly. When your identity is disagreement with another’s act of faith, how can it lead anywhere but aggression?
Silversmith
Report Post »guz75
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:05amI’ve asked myself that question a lot; for a long time I wouldn’t describe myself as atheist, because it carries connotations of being anti religion, which is not the case. As I‘ve got older I’ve found myself becoming more militant and outspoken in my atheism. I think the reason lies in your description of atheism as aggressive, without understanding that having someone telling you you’re going to burn in hell etc. and treating you as a lesser human being because you don’t follow their faith, also feels like an act of aggression. In honesty there have been a lot of times that I’ve felt, as an atheist, I do a better job of living by Christian values than some Christians, who will use their faith and the bible to attack anyone that doesn’t fit their ideology. I guess this is probably why you have atheist groups and people that feel the need to belong to them and I suppose in all honesty it is as much about being anti religion as it is about not believing. As long as not believing continues to be treated with disdain, the more confrontational those that don’t believe will become I guess.
Report Post »Silversmith
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:57am@ GUZ75 I didn’t say that atheism is aggressive innately. I ask how an identity based on opposition can avoid becoming so. This concept can apply to more than atheism. In fact, some of the aggression you site coming from the religious is based on the same model. It all depends on why you are getting involved in the discussion in the first place. This article speaks about what amounts to a campaign for membership to a group of people opposed to something – exclusionary for exclusion’s sake. There are nut jobs in all walks of life, but my experience so far of the religious is that they entreat and invite people to join (missionaries etc.) and if anyone doesn’t want to sign up, the worst that could happen is that they would pray for you, as they have a faith based in a loving creed. But when your “faith” is a non belief – a state that requires believers to create your identity of opposition to something – where does that lead you as your campaign gains momentum? What tenets do atheists live by? What moral code? I’m not maligning here, just asking what differentiates this identity from a mob.
Silversmith
Report Post »Leader1776
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:12am@SILVERSMITH
Report Post »Thoughtful. The aggression will be by the ‘radicalized’ segment …… always is. The others will silently agree and not come forward against their violent colleagues (WWII Germans, moderate Muslims). There is plenty of history with the likes of Stalin, Mao, etc. showing atheists, despite what they spew, are no more non-violent, humanitarian or ethical than the religious. Of course, that claim must be made in an attempt to level the playing field. It is nothing more than two sides of the same ‘religious playing card’.
guz75
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:16amI see what you mean. I think the point is that atheist groups form not so much on the basis of collectively not believing in something, as feeling that their lack of belief pushes them down a step in society. For example an atheist is considerably less likely to become the POS, even though their morality and ability to do the job may be as good, if not better than a Christian rival and in the sense of separation of church and state, it should make no difference. I don‘t think it’s unusual or unhealthy for a reasonable person to want to spend time with others who share the same view point. From my own personal perspective I would like the same respect extended to me as I give to those of faith and their beliefs and reading some of the comments here it doesn’t always feel that way. I’m aware this cuts both ways, but surely these sorts of groups being available at college level ensure sensible discussion and understanding from both sides, at a pivotal point in a young persons life. I would certainly hate to think it was about indoctrination from either side.
Report Post »Leader1776
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:50am@GUZ75
I don’t know how old you are, but I’ve been in a similar position for 40+ years. You have to ask you’re self how YOU put yourself into a position where you were told you’d burn in hell? I’ve run the religious gamut as far as friends are concerned …. Pentecostals, Evangelicals, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus. No one told me this (burning in hell) and none of them have ever approached me to save me. They know upfront it is none of their business.
As far as what goes on in the public square ………. as long as it’s constitutional and is not forced on anyone else ……… that’s just fine. What Dawkins, Hitchens and their ilk never will admit is atheism is a religion …… their FAITH that no higher being exists). They worship the physical world. Although their high-mindedness would never allow the word worship assigned to their position. Their position is ‘reason, logic, and science’ don’t you know. They don’t believe in some unseen mystic being. Yet the Higgs Boson is unseen ……… only its effects can be measured. As far as I know the species that links man and apes is yet unseen after a century and a half of search. EVERYTHING not explainable is explainable (or will be) in the physical world. You can go on and on.
Yet, what the atheist centers on and what the religious centers on, I would pose, are not at odd with each other …… just a matter of interpretation. Healthy debate is just that ……. healthy. Unfort
Report Post »raffak
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:32amNon-believers are simply responding to the avalanche of religious messages that bears down upon us daily.
Religion gets carte blanche to be as vocal as it wants, to knock on our doors and accost us in our homes, in our places of work, in our personal and professional lives. Believers are charged with a life mission to preach, teach, disciple, shout it from the mountaintops and to “go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” Religion…is everywhere.
Ask yourself. When’s the last time an atheist rang your doorbell with the Good News of Humanism? How often do you find Richard Dawkins books in the dresser drawers of your hotel rooms? When was the last atheist temple erected in your neighborhood? Have you ever attended an atheist revival? Has atheism demanded 10% of your household income? How many dedicated atheist television channels come through your satellite dish? How many atheist verses were you instructed to memorize as a child? When’s the last time someone thanked a FARMER (or even the cook) at the dinner table instead of God?
On a more radical front, what’s the name of the last atheist who sawed the head off of an “infidel?” Or sentenced a shrouded woman to death for displeasing an oppressive husband? Or strapped explosives to his belt in order to kill hundreds in a public square? Or publicly hung a gay person for his lifestyle?
It’s everywhere. Religion is a pounding drum that has gone mostly unanswered for a long, long time.
Report Post »raffak
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:37amAnd religion is not satisfied with merely existing quietly in the homes and hearts of the faithful. Its very nature compels the believer to proselytize, preach, promote, convince, convert and prevail. If you play on the team of the religious, your game plan is to stay, always, on offense.
Throughout our history, those who raise a simple hand of protest against these advances have been portrayed as the real problem. Religion has attempted to marginalize and defeat legitimate questions and concerns by indignantly portraying any resistors as misguided, immoral, rudderless, angry, miserable, lost and alone.
And when skepticism challenges wildly improbable (or impossible) stories found in the bible, the Qur’an and other holy books, the religious wail, “Why can’t you just leave us alone?”
The irony is thick.
Report Post »Silversmith
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:49am@GUZ75 I hear what you’re saying. And some of the commentary here makes me shake my head as well. I guess my leap of faith is that most folks don’t have a hellfire and brimstone attitude about life. But I have to point out that this article is about atheist groups in high school, not college. And while I agree that in college this is a normal exploration, just as religious groups in college are; in high school there is no answer allowed from the religious side of the discussion. And really, is high school the place for any of that kind of debate? Maybe, but it shouldn’t be instigated by national organizations from either group. In my view, kids are still being raised by their parents at that age.
Silversmith
Report Post »Silversmith
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 1:18pm@Raffak You sound like you feel persecuted. And I’m sorry if that is indeed the case. However it also makes your commentary sound a little extreme in it’s view. I don’t see an “avalanche” of religious messages in the world, nor do I see religion having carte blanche as opposed to any other idea in our society. All kinds of ideas are free to “accost us” in this country. Our doorbells ring with representatives of many non religious affiliates from schools to scouting to surveys and charities, all of which are secular. National Geographic and the Smithsonian are offered in public places just as the Gideon’s offer the Bible. I don’t know where you live and work, but the only places I can think of that offer the degree of religious proselytizing and constant advocacy that you speak of are religious organizations themselves. And I doubt you are employed in one of those.
I have said that some of the comments here make me shake my head. I had been referring to the religious zealots who condemn all who don’t believe as they do, but you join their ranks with this diatribe. I sincerely hope your world is not as ugly as you describe it.
Silversmith
Report Post »momrules
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:25amAtheists spend an inordinate amount of time PREACHING their BELIEF that there is no God. Any one who helps convert someone to that belief will eventually be held accountable to God.
My suggestion to Christian students……….continue in your faith and pray that God will increase your faith. Lead by example and teach when possible. These atheist children have been led astray by evil but good will prevail.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:12amI would be more than okay with myself pulling a reverse Kass Sunstein, and “infiltrating” these groups like he has done with the tea party. Would I annoy and disrupt like OWS? No, I would politely point out mistruths spoken and correct them.
I‘m sure they’ll use the crusades as a stick to beat us with. But the crusades were actually an act of self defense to protect the remnants of the eastern roman empire. What about the fact most wars are religiously inspired? Nope, about 7% are, and half of those were Islamic wars. ( I can provide you with a link, Bruce P.)
Report Post »Taquoshi
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:45amSo, what will be the point of the group? No one believes in God. Okay, now for our next discussion, who likes peanut butter and mayonnaise sandwiches?
Honestly, are they going to go out and do things like cleaning up trash in public parks, painting the homes of the elderly, or collecting supplies for the nearest homeless shelter? What’s the point of the club?
I would have to guess that it would be activism against Christians and other believers.
Report Post »Leader1776
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:34amI would suggest that Christians, especially Evangelicals, preach the word of the Lord incessantly. But that’s OK, right? They are ‘called’ to do it, right? Don’t you find that just a bit convenient …… and hypocritical in this argument? No, wait …..(place Bible verse here)….. said I should preach. Please, what’s good for the goose is phenomenal for the gander.
Back to the article ………… the atheists are non-believers of an entity they refuse to acknowledge. That’s their choice. Should they have missionaries as do churches (of any and all stripes)? What this article is hinting is they want missionary-like status in schools. If religious meetings of LIKE-MINDED individuals are allowed to convene in a given school, why then shouldn’t the atheists? If the religious groups have a missionary purpose in these meetings …… why not the atheists? Ooops, forgot ……. because ……(place Bible verse here)……. said they can’t.
Report Post »Taquoshi
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 2:45pmTo Leader1776 – There are tons of non-believers that I know. I guess one would call them atheists. They don’t go to church, they don’t pray, they don’t believe. They just get on with their lives. You speak of those who “preach the word of the Lord incessantly.” Are you talking about people in the business world or are you watching Christian cable programs and listening to Christian radio? Those are the only people I know of that are preaching incessantly.
Your comment about “If religious meetings of LIKE-MINDED individuals are allowed to convene in a given school, why then shouldn’t the atheists?” Fine. But if these students are meeting because they don’t believe in something, they don’t really have any commonality. Someone earlier made a comment that she/he was the president of the Chess Club & the members hated checkers. Okay, but they got together to work on playing their game. Chess was the commonality, not their hatred of checkers. Debate Club, the Hindi culture Club would be the same, as would Latin Club or the Auto Repair Club. Each of them had a goal, which basically was to improve skills, knowledge and fellowship. As for the Bible clubs, studies, fellowships – what have you, the goal is basically the same, improving skills, knowledge and fellowship.
I guess the atheists could do the same, but the commonality that it is based on is a negative – i.e. what you don’t believe in rather than what you do. It’ll sure be interesting to see
Report Post »davecorkery
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 3:49pmHey, Mom
Exactly how is atheism “evil”? 95% of inmates in prison are christian, Less than 1% are atheist. You’re just believing what a man, a pastor, told you. You never checked it out. To be a christian you must lie to your kids when they ask if there is a god. The answer is “no one knows,”, you’re lying if you say there is. Great way to start a young life, with lies and deceit coming from your fears. These kids will do well in life. They won’t be afraid of some thunderbolt coming after them.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 4:39pmA lot of prisoners do quick conversions in prison because of readily available priests, libraries stocked with scriptures and churches inside the complex. Not to mention the Pascal’s Choice phenomenom (do your homework kids) and the old saying “Some people don‘t look up until they’re lying flat on their backs.”
I’m paraphrasing beyond belief here, but one of the apostles asked Jesus once why he ate dinner with a scoundrel like a tax collector (haha) and Jesus replied,
“If somebody owes a debtor 50 pence, and another 500 pence, and he forgives them both, which act of forgiveness makes him more holy?”
“Who he forgave the most.”
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 6:35pmDavecorkery – What makes atheists like you good people in the first place? And why do countries that have higher atheist populations have higher suicide rates?
Report Post »momrules
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 6:51pmDAVECORKERY……………Yes, I told my children that God is their Creator and that Jesus Christ is their Savior. If you are a parent and you have told your children that there is no God then you have lied to them.
Report Post »Believe as you will. Jesus Christ came the first time as a servant, teacher and sacrifice. When He returns He will come as a warrior King. You will one day meet that warrior King.
Joyzee
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:23amAny atheist‘ in there last moment of life dying in their own arm’s and know it!..will seek faith from the devil..with final breath and Wonder.
Report Post »Tandem2011
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:30amI doubt it. Atheists rationalize everything away to suit their smug indifferences. It’s just another religious cult without a belief in something greater than their own cynical egos.
Report Post »Steelhead
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:21amBilly if you dig deep enough you will eventually reach China.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:33amMan cannot live by bread alone.
All you offer them is buzz & some titillation.
Steelhead I hope if you were to dig more than a 1/2 mile down that you wear a cooling suit to prevent heat stroke.
Report Post »biffo
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:17amAs long as high school students organize and get their Christian high school groups going this is ok. If these Christians in these high schools allow this to happen with no response then the next commie step is in place. Removing religion from our children. Wonder how many teachers are behind this? The only safe educational environment these days is a religious school, home schooling, charter school. The muslims will take full advantage of this and boldly, using our own system against us, set up their own, murdering islam high school groups. While we Christians wring our hands and watch our rights, along with our childrens lives, go down the poop chute of communism. Why a parent sends their children to public school is beyond me, or it is deliberate child neglect.
let
Report Post »TAC616
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:44amSo if Christians use their right to form such a club it’s ok. But if Muslims do it they’re a terror group? Muslims already have the right to make a club on campus if they are so inclined, welcome to America. These Atheists have just as much a right to do this as any Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, or anyone else.
Report Post »biffo
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:15ammuslims are a terror group by default. Christians should get their groups going ASAP! Some are not allowed. I think all muslims should leave the USA btw.
Report Post »TAC616
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:42am@BIFFO
Report Post »-muslims are a terror group by default.
Says you. I’m sure there are a Muslims telling each other the same thing about Christians.
-Christians should get their groups going ASAP!
Get them going? Most schools already have them.
-I think all muslims should leave the USA btw.
Well then you’re standing in direct opposition to why this country was founded. The First Amendment applies equally. If you advocate nullifying it for one group of people you’re advocating such a possible use against yourself.
beverlee
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:06amObama’s fundamental transformation taking hold in a school system near you…
Report Post »biffo
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:24amNext thing on the list. Children report on your family gun ownership, political leanings, cigarette smoking, tax dodging, finances, etc. Their teachers are not teaching since the 60s. The teachers are a good parent’s enemy in todays government schools. Try to visit your school and get information on the courses content and teachers backgrounds. You will be arrested. Get your children out of public schools or you are contributing to the downfall of the USA.
Report Post »Thornyrose13
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 7:59amIt works two ways folks. The rules simply mean that if religous groups can form(and there are plenty of such groups out there) then atheist groups can meet. And vice versa. This sort of thing strengthens our rights. These groups can’t magically “de-convert” believers. People who go to them either have doubts or already have decided on their religous beliefs. So long as they interact civililly with students who do believe, how is it UnAmerican or bad?
Report Post »TAC616
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:08amBecause this is The Blaze, any mention of Atheists and you’d think think they were invading like it was Red Dawn. Expect much pearl clutching in this thread. They just won‘t see that it’s a two way street, that the rights that those they oppose to do this are the se rights same they themselves have. Someone is just using them in a way they don’t like, so the sky is obviously falling.
Report Post »clinging-to-my-guns-and-religion
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 7:48amI wonder how long before atheists are a protected class. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit if sometime soon, some crazy lunatic in the govt tried to introduce legislation outlawing the profession of faith in the presence of an athiest simply because it might hurt their feelings. Why people can’t make the direct correlation between the decline of America and the further supression of GOD is beyond me.
Report Post »Godless_baby_eater
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 11:49pmYou do of course realize that will never happen because of the first amendment right? They won’t pass a law like that and no one would vote for that, the hypothetical law you’re mentioning is blatantly unconstitutional. As an Atheist, I am not offended by people professing their faith, heck I encourage them too, I get offended and angry when they try to have their specific brand of faith taught in a public school system.
Report Post »LovingAmerica
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 7:40amNope. Not allowed. If Christians cannot gather and pray in schools, the atheists do not get to gather, either. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Report Post »TAC616
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 9:00amLast I checked, there’s nobody stopping the forming of Christian clubs. My High School had one.
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 7:38amSince removing GOD from schools, atheism has been on campus. Puleeze, this is not news.
What the high school campuses need are BIBLE STUDY GROUPS and YOUTH FOR CHRIST groups.
Make that TEACHERS FOR CHRIST groups.
Make that HOME SCHOOLING for CHRIST, AMERICA and our FUTURE.
No taxes on property where kids are home schooled. There you go!
Report Post »Tandem2011
Posted on July 2, 2012 at 8:35amIf students were taught with comparative religious studies (objectively studying all belief systems) in combination with a healthy respect for the sciences, they would learn how to think for themselves by the time they move out into the world on their own.
Report Post »Hosfac
Posted on July 3, 2012 at 3:47amThese are student created and run groups, so there is nothing stopping anyone from creating a bible study group or a “Youths for Christ” group. These groups aren’t funded by the schools, so there’s no constitutionality issues to consider here. So, why do you suppose these groups don’t exist? My guess is that churches have pretty much already organized this kind of thing and anyone with an interest in that are already involved in those. It would be redundant.
The major problem here is that Christians want to force their beliefs on other people, yet when someone organizes something that’s contrary, Christians see it as a personal attack. You want to be free to espouse your beliefs, but you don’t want anyone else to be able to do the same. That’s what is called a “double standard.” Freedom is great, so long as you’re the only one who has it.
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