Atheists to Hold Massive ‘Woodstock for Non-Belief’ in Washington D.C.
- Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:35am by
Billy Hallowell
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The logo for the "Reason Rally" (Image Credit: ReasonRally.org)
Traditionally, atheists have taken on the faith community through limited legal battles and individual complaints. But as the power of social media and communicative technologies has developed, non-believers have become increasingly organized. As they collaborate through various projects, they’re realizing the power they have as a collective. In fact, on March 24, 2012, they’re planning the “Reason Rally” — a massive event that American Atheists President David Silverman has dubbed a “Woodstock for non-belief.”
The event, which will symbolically be held on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., is being called ”the largest secular event ever,” as non-believers from across America are being encouraged to come and take part in the “historical” gathering. On the event’s web site, its purpose is explained in detail:
The Reason Rally is a movement-wide event sponsored by the country’s major secular organizations. The intent is to unify, energize, and embolden secular people nationwide, while dispelling the negative opinions held by so much of American society… and having a damn good time doing it! It will be the largest secular event in world history. There will be music, comedy, great speakers, and lots of fun… and it’s free! [...]
Across America, in every city, every town, and every school, secularism is on the rise. Whether people call themselves atheists, agnostics, secular Humanists, or any of the other terms used to describe their god-free lifestyle, secularism is coming out of the closet. According to the 2008 American Religious Identification Survey…the percentage of people with no religious affiliation grew in all fifty states. The purpose of this particular rally will be to advance secularism (in the broadest sense of the word) in society.
So, it seems America’s atheist population is on a mission: To grow its numbers, while changing the perceptions the majority of the public public often holds against it. With numbers that appear to be growing, non-believers are looking to form the same cohesiveness they see among America’s faithful.
Below, watch a trailer that provides a preview of all of the presenters and speakers who will be present at the event, which goes from 10 a.m. until 4 p.m. If it’s as large as non-believers say it will be, it could be the first of many such events:
Musicians and speakers will present and perform at the “Reason Rally.” Among those listed on the event’s web site are evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers (whom the Blaze has interacted with in the past), Freedom From Religion Co-President Annie Laurie Gaylor and Jessica Ahlquist (the 16-year-old girl behind the prayer mural ban in Rhode Island).
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Comments (560)
Carlinpa
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:09pmI expect there will be dozens of people at this event. Seriously we should start a pool.. There certainly will not be more than 10,000.. and most of them will be gawkers and media. As the expression goes “ Nothing ventured NOTHING gained” atheist’s beliefs will certainly come to fruition someday..
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:24pmThey could have 50,000 easily. I don;t know if it will be more than 200,000.
It all depends if they can get away from work, have the money & the inclination.
I feel more threatened by rabid atheists than a “church lady”. I don’t think I could find a church lady nowadays to save my life, but I could find plenty of rabid atheists.
Report Post »KickinBack
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:27pmThe largest secular gathering of atheists ever!…That is, until Judgement Day…
Report Post »Dale
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:45pmI noticed ‘the thinking atheist’ produced the video. That should tell you there are many others (who don’t/can’t).
Report Post »ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:00pmI’m very surprised that Atheists have not been more active politically. This is prolly just the beginning.
Report Post »finky555
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:11pmThe first Woodstock was not a gathering for Jesus now was it. The majority were kids rebelling against the establishment that thought they should work for what they wanted. There was a complete mix of religious and non religious, including atheists there. If atheists need to gather together to support each other in their beliefs, they are well within their rights. It’ll be interesting to see what is used to draw their crowd. If they use bands, it won’t be just atheists showing up but music lovers of faith as well.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 3:03pmThe French Revolution: the Deity of Nature is Science & Reason…
Report Post »mike1127
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 3:59pmHey WALKABOUT: Exactly how many people have atheists burned at the stake? How many atheists are even now banning the use of condoms in starving 3rd-world countries? Exactly how many atheists are telling you how to live your life? How many atheists are lobbying Congress to change our laws for their benefit? How many atheists are trying to tell you how to dress your children? The answer to all of the above questions is zero. There are several different church groups doing all of the above, though. I’ll take atheism over religious BS any day of the week. All religious books are man-made crap that only a moron accepts as fact.
Have a nice day.
Report Post »pavepaws
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 4:35pmGives OWS some place to go.
Report Post »pavepaws
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 4:39pmAdam Savage from the Mythbusters, who knew?
Report Post »Antenor
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 4:56pmYou are right, MIKE1127, religious people have the advantage in people burned at the stake. It’s a big number. But it pales in comparison to the deaths in the concentration camps, killing fields and gulags built by aethist regimes. I’m not celebrating any death, but seriously, I will take the hundreds of thousands of religious executions over the past couple thousand years over the hundreds of millions of secular political deaths in just the past century.
I get the aetheist argument, don’t agree with it, but I get it. What I don’t get is the self-blinders worn by those who love to point out the faults of the other side while oblivious to the greater harm their own side has done when it has seized power.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 5:22pmMaybe GB should count. If so there will be 100,000 to 500,000 for sure LOL. As my father always cautioned, there is a need for balance in the world. With all the over zealot believers pushing a religion into political and social areas it does not belong…a rational social backlash is to be expected.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 5:50pmHey Rook
A little bass ackwards…….methinks.
Why don’t you give us a few more examples of that “socialist” balance your father cautioned about.
Pffffffffffffffttttttt.
Report Post »neffy812
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:20pmMy mother is a “church lady”. My aunts are “church ladies”. Several of my cousins are “church ladies”. It’s amazing how ignorant and hateful religious people can be when it comes to atheism. So many people think that everyone has to believe in something. The atheists I know don’t give in to that concept. They would rather enjoy the act of learning about life and the world around them instead of assuming that they know the absolute truth about anything. Atheism is not about attacking other religions. In fact, I respect the beliefs of religious people, but I choose not to believe those things. Most of my time as an atheist is spent defending myself from the hateful attacks by religious people who can‘t just be okay with the fact that I’m not like them. And, of course, I’m sure there will be plenty of hateful replies to my comment by the good Christian readers of The Blaze.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:30pmNo Neffy, not a hateful response,
But if atheism is not about attacking other religions, you should get the word out, because a whole bunch of you are misinformed.
Report Post »beckwasfox
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:32pmI wish these atheists would just sit down, shut up and stop making such a spectacle of their faith. Enough with the proseletyzing already! Yeesh!
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:39pmNeffy
Have you had to defend yourself from the the good Christian readers here?
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:18pmThe 2008 U.S. Census recorded 34,169,000 responses of “no religion specified” and an additional 11,815,000 refused to reply to the question “what is your self-described religious identification” for what you make of that. That’s ~10% of the estimated adult U.S population. 10,000 is ~0.0292% of 34,169,000 and is ~0.617% of the sub-population of self-identified “atheists.” So, the SAFE money is on a SLIGHTLY larger estimate–jeez, you Blazers make such OUTLANDISH assertions on a regular basis, it‘s like taking candy from children pointing out the flaws in ya’ll’s reasoning.
Report Post »ThemDemsLie2much
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:27pmI predict very bad weather on March 24th!
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 10:00pmThe first Woodstock was a rock concert.
Report Post »Trying to show their non belief in God they
are actually showing their need to believe in
something. Hell to me is being in a state
of nothingness(is that a word) separated from
God. Enjoy hell people.
Kirkmouse
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:24pmThis will be the right time for the Westboro Baptist Church to picket – their time will be better-spent.
Report Post »Will someone please notify them of this in-gathering? They know how to “make a big noise”.
PATTY HENRY
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 4:23amI always love it when these “OTHER GROUPS” try to mimic the PATRIOTS who came to DC in 2009 for 9/12. Then again in 2010 for Glenn Beck’s Restoring America … WHY? Because it shows such an amazing contrast between “THOSE PEOPLE” and Patriots.
Maybe they can figure out what they will use as “PROOF” no GOD exists !! Maybe they will also figure out why they need to force their “so-called NON-BELIEF ” on the rest of us. If they really did not believe, it wouldn’t matter to them one wit what we believed…. It will be interesting to see who shows up, what they do and how they leave it. WE will pray for them and apologize to our BELOVED GOD, as JESUS did “Forgive them, they know not what they do”.
Report Post »txn4justice
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:47pmWell I came upon a child of God, he was walking along the road
Report Post »And I asked him tell where are you going, this he told me:
(He) said, I‘m going down to Yasgur’s farm, going to join in a rock and roll band.
Got to get back to the land, and set my soul free.
We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon,
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden.
GETLIFE
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:52pmGreat! Organize, organize all ye athiests! Another force against the Islamists!
As hard as any group tries to make us forget the history of our western civilization, the Islamists will make us remember.
Report Post »cush3619
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:32pmThe fool hath said in his heart, “There is no God”!! Who calls on God when their ship sinks or something else bad? Maybe some unbelievers!!! You think?
Report Post »dmerwin
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 4:42pmYou stole my thunder. I want to see the media cover this so we can have a count.
Report Post »TH30PH1LUS
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 4:45pmScientists who will NOT BE MENTIONED at this rally:
Michael Faraday, Ruđer Bošković, Daniello Bartoli, Isaac Newton, Nicholas Copernicus, Galileo Galilei, Gregor Mendel, Giovanni Antonelli, Sir Francis Bacon, Louis Pasteur, Georges Lemaître… among MANY others
WHY? Because they all believed in God.
Report Post »THEUNKNOWNPATRIOT
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 5:01pmTo believe in “Not believing”, that is the question. Whether they recognize this or not, their religion consists of believing in no god. We need to turn the tables on them!
Report Post »Alaskan
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:17pmTheir beliefs have come to fruition. They do not believe and no one is trying to convince them otherwise. It is the reverse. They want to take away the right of Christians to worship and believe in GOD. So, do you believe in Buddah? If so what is the big deal. The atheists have a non GOD for their GOD. They do not believe in anything. They think that the world came about by itself and has progressed by itself all the the insistence of hapstance. Ok that is their belief and I don’t have a problem with it so back off and let me have my belief without their interference.
Report Post »Taquoshi
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:21pmI wonder how many Occupiers will be there? Maybe the unions will pay them to show up….
Report Post »Informingall
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:22pmSo many false ideas of what atheism is. Most atheists don’t say that there is no god but there is NO PROOF that a god exists. We aren’t seeking to take away your right to believe whatever you want. What we do want is for you to keep your beliefs to yourself and not push them on everybody else. We want a government free from the influence of religion. We want the shoools to teach factual information and keep myths and legends in a seperate class. We don‘t have to prove that god doesn’t exist since we don‘t say that a god doesn’t exist. Christians make the claim that a god exists so you must back your claims with evidence.
Report Post »Freedon of religion also includes freedom from religion.
JJosh
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 8:29pmANTENOR:
Your statement about religious vs secularist deaths is completely absurd. Concentration camps?Oh You mean like hitler, who was open about his Christianity and how it was the reason for what he did.
” I will take the hundreds of thousands of religious executions over the past couple thousand years over the hundreds of millions of secular political deaths in just the past century.”
Really? Hundreds of Millions of deaths? Okay, and they are????
Look,
After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments — and those governments were both secular and atheistic, right? So weren’t all of those people killed because of atheism — indeed, in the name of atheism and secularism?
No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn’t a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.
People were killed in communist nations for a lot of different reasons. Some were communists who disagreed with those in power and were killed because of that. Some were anti-communists opposed the government and were killed for that. Some were simply in the way or inconvenient and were killed for that. These are political disagreements that people were being killed over, not atheism.
Report Post »JJosh
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 8:32pmANTENOR:
Your statement about religious vs secularist deaths is completely absurd. Concentration camps?Oh You mean like hitler, who was open about his Christianity and how it was the reason for what he did.
And Millions of people killed by secularism?
Really? Hundreds of Millions of deaths? Okay, and they are????
Look, Millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments and they were secularist atheist countries, so you think it was in the name of atheism?
No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn’t a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.
People were killed in communist nations for a lot of different reasons. Some were communists who disagreed with those in power and were killed because of that. Some were anti-communists opposed the government and were killed for that. Some were simply in the way or inconvenient and were killed for that. These are political disagreements that people were being killed over, not atheism.
atheism is not inherently opposed to religion: it is possible to be both an atheist and religious and some religions are themselves atheistic. Atheism also isn’t a belief system or ideology which can, by itself, inspire people to do things — good or bad.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:09pmI support this event. People need to understand there is more to the world then religion. We need to reclaim our humanity. Religion is a thing of the past; throw it away. No person has to follow commandments from religion; we need to find peace within ourselves and have our own moral laws. Can you agree or at least respect my views?
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:18pmNo, because who is to decide what is moral and what isn’t? What makes murder wrong? What makes homosexuality right? Homosexuality is against evolution.
Can you be a moral person without believing in God? Sure you can. But those morals have to come from somewhere. Why was Hitler wrong to gas Jews? He believed he was cleansing his country, why is that wrong?
It is ironic that atheists believe they are logical and intellectual when the opposite is true. There are a million roadblocks to atheism, the only thing keeping you from knowing God is your own unbelief.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:21pmNo person has to follow commandments from religion
_______________
So you don’t have to follow the commandment “Thou shall not murder”?
Or “Thou shall not covet (fill in the blank)”?
Interesting ethos you have.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:24pmYou cannot MAKE a person believe. Blind belief can’t really even be true, if you really think about it. Especially in a human concept like god which is never seen, heard, felt, . . . but only expressed as “being true because some other human SAYS so”.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:31pmLet’s look on the opposite end of the religious coin. People who are secular or non-religious (atheist, agnostic, deist, humanist, etc). Have made many contributions to humanity in the past. People have donated money to charities; helped the poor and less fortunate; influenced programs for science, engineering, and schools. Yes, people of religion (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc) have also been apart in helping humanity. But I feel religion is irrelevant to today’s world. We can make our own laws regarding society and human nature. Many religions and philosophies have came and influenced our mindset on human nature throughout human history. Many which have snowballed into the faiths billions of people practice today like the Abrahmaic faiths are good examples. In my opinion religion is conceived by man throughout history. Faith doesn’t make who we are as a person; understand human nature and trying to find peace within yourself and understand evolution.
Report Post »KMM
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:32pmDEMOCRITUSOILDER267,
First, I can respect your right to hold whatever views you wish. I can respect your right to live according to those views. But, I cannot respect when atheists try to take away my views because they are “offended” by them.
Second, just because I can respect your right to hold to and live according to your views, does not mean I need to respect the views themselves. Strictly speaking, atheism is the assertion that there is no God, or gods. In order to assert such a view, this requires one to be God, or a god, to know the validity of such an assertion. Thus, the view is self-contradictory. Thus, I do not respect such an illogical view. I have more respect for agnosticism and skepticism, as world views, which at least admit one cannot definitively deny the existence of God or any other gods. I still disagree with the views and believe they can be countered. But, I at least respect that the views are more honest, and somewhat more logical, than atheism. Can you respect my rights to believe this and thus to live a world view that believes in God?
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:35pmDeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:24pm
You cannot MAKE a person believe. Blind belief can’t really even be true, if you really think about it. Especially in a human concept like god which is never seen, heard, felt, . . . but only expressed as “being true because some other human SAYS so”.
Report Post »—————————————————————————
I agree with you 100%!!! The piece you are missing is believers KNOW God is real because He lives within them. Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Unbelievers are blind, they do not have ears to hear or eyes to see. It is really their problem, not the believer’s. If you seek you shall find, but you must look earnestly. He is there and once He reveals Himself all doubt is erased. Any born again Christian will tell you this. You just cannot face the fact that there may be more to this than you see.
KickinBack
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:37pmNah. Without religion, you have governments to deem what is moral or not. And that only holds until that government is replaced by another government with different morals and beliefs…and so on and so forth. Hence, no stability ever. Chaos would reign supreme.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:43pmEveryone is entitled to their own opinions; I can dig it. Over the years I have studied all kinds of faiths, religions; the list goes on and on. There have times I debated with different people or asked them different questions about why they believe in this or that. Everyone interprets this word differently or how they feel about this topic. People who are religious will interpret the word “faith” differently, then someone who an atheist who will see faith as a means in just being a believer in religion. Personally I see myself as a deist. I have always been attracted to deism and masonry. I’m secular in my views, I believe in human nature, reason, common sense, and emotion. I accept evolution since I have studied evolution science. I do believe there is an afterlife and various other mysteries to mankind and the world. I just do not feel you have to believe in this or that to be a good person or in order to go to heaven. Do you understand what I’m saying?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:47pmtrolltrainer, . . . I sincerely looked for god for ~20 years. I know that people claim to “know god exists”, but this is still just an opinion. It is no different than the muslim who “knows Allah is the one true god”.
Report Post »AmazingGrace8
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:55pm“Respect my views” etc. After your first-death, you will get your answer from “The Creator”.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:56pmTrue, people believe all kinds of whacked out things that they believe is real. I cannot argue with you there. If you have an open mind and sincerely seek Him out then I am certain God will reveal Himself to you eventually. I know what I know, nothing can change that. It is not about religion or commandments or trying to live to some moral code. It is simply about accepting Christ. Maybe you have looked in the wrong places? The Gospel of John is the place to go. I know you have already read it…perhaps many times. Read it again, chapter by chapter, in an understandable translation. Think about it, dwell on it.
There is a song by Johnny Cash called “I was there when it happened (so I guess I ought to know).” I am living it and every born again Christian is also. I pray you find Him.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:04pm@ DEMOCRIT……I couldn’t help but to overhear your conversation (sorry). In all your studies of the world religions I would ask you one question. There is only one in which the premise is that God is reaching down to save man right? All others, although the details are different, can essentially be summed up as man reaching up to God trying to save themselves through their good deeds. Only one stands alone. Only one claims that God became flesh and died for his beloved creation. Only one states that you cannot be good enough. If I gave all I had to charity and served others diligently yet for one brief moment broke the law in my life would I still not be guilty of breaking the law no matter how much good I did? Can the good we have done ever be a reasonable defense for breaking the law? You assert that you are partial to common sense and reason, as am I so can you not see the moral dilemma man is in? We all have broken many moral laws such as lying, hating, slandering, pride, etc….Only one faith states that God not man is responsible for salvation. I could do nothing but simply believe in what He did and begin to walk differently according to what he said. If it is evidence you seek then begin looking in three areas bibliographical evidence, internal evidence, and external evidence. These areas will provide a very convincing compilation of what is recorded in the Bible. It is a reasonable faith with many forms of evidence. It is NOT a blind faith. Good da
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:06pmThanks but no thanks. To me Christianity is a lot like all the other religions out there today. I just do not have faith in order to be a Christian. Hopefully you understand what I’m saying.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:16pm@WATCHTHEOTHERHAND: In one of my previous comments I mentioned how people interpret certain subjects differently. I just cannot see eye-to-eye with you on your comment. Imagine this God has all kinds of power and is able to destroy the earth and humanity if we do not follow correctly. Studying the Abrahamic faiths: Christianity, Judaism, Islam. I cannot be the only person who has read the stories of the bible or the quran. Stories like Noah’s Ark just make me sick to my stomach. How can God create all kinds of life and destroy it in a instance? You might imagine Noah, his family, and the animals bouncing up and down in the Ark in the massive water sent from God. But can you imagine all other life suffering as a result? I do not believe the bible to be a historic book so I wouldn’t say what is written accurate. To me the bible was influenced by other religions and philosophies in their environment. That is how I see Jesus and figures who have come before and after him. Jesus to me is an idea that is expressed differently by people throughout history. Jesus is an interesting figure even if he wasn’t real to me people who believer and/or worshiped him shaped human history.
Report Post »Mrs.M
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:16pmwhat is your own “moral law”. Does it look the same for everyone? It would seem the answer is no. Take out God and put in “human moral law” and you get “whatever feels good today”. No religion is a wonderful thing. God is great and I am wondering why it is so hard for people to accept? And who gave you the brain to form reason? Where did all of that come from?
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:22pmDEMOCRITUSOILDER267: I don’t have enough faith to be an ATHIEST! It takes more faith to be athiest…. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWwEI-ky6uI&feature=player_detailpage
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:28pmI just do not do what “feels good” what is acceptable. All my life I have either tried to live by faith or religion and how people would accept me. I have come to the conclusion society is a big part of human understanding. Which is were I come to put together my understanding on people are to live a good positive life. Some people are crazy and many people know how to control people in order to have power over them. I feel if we can understand how easily emotion can be used to influence people; We can more easily have healthy countries and governments.
Report Post »Fiddlesticks
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:34pm@Trolltrainer
People have always decided what is moral. Not God/Gods. Today we consider Slavery immoral. The bible has many passages that endorse slavery in Exodus and Leviticus. What is moral and immoral changes over time and is subject to different variables.
Murder is wrong because you yourself don’t want to be murdered. If you want to find out where human morality comes from you need to do some research on the topic of Altruism which is covered in depth by many human sociologists.
Homosexuality is present in not just humans, its also present in a wide list of animals as well. There is a wide body of scientific evidence covering homosexuality. It took thousands of years and science to figure out why homosexual behaviors exist, not a non factual religious faith text.
There aren’t a million roadblocks to Atheism. If you look at the FACTS and then don’t fall for that oh so human behavior of making things up to fill in knowledge gaps you come to learn that religion was mans first attempt to figure out the unexplainable. There was a time when everybody on Earth believed that Apollo pulled the Sun across the sky with his chariot and if you didn’t believe it, you could be killed. Now we know better.
I sometimes wonder how powerful religion could have been if instead of burning and killing mathematicians & astronomers for trying to discover the truth, it instead embraced them in an effort to discover real universal truths. But we’ll never know will
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:36pm@ DEMOCRIT………If you do not believe the Bible to be a historic work then you cannot believe any work of antiquity to be historic because no other source even comes close to having the same amount of evidence to support it. It has be proven right on times, places, and customs time and time again. It has even been mocked for long periods of time about the existence of such places as Sodom until it was discovered by archeology. If Jesus was only an expression or idea then you should run from it as fast as you can because it would be nothing short of deceptive and dangerous because the “idea” as you described it claimed to be God’s son in the flesh to antire generation that was eyewitness to the things he did. Even the Pharisees who were no friend to Jesus did not contradict the eyewitness accounts recorded in the NT. Even the Roman guards knew who Jesus was and if those things were made up do you not suppose the thousands of people living in those areas at the times could have easily exposed those accounts as frauds. What about the disciples and the miracles they performed? Do you believe they were real? They would have had many witnesses that could of easily debunked what they did, right? We know the NT was written on 3 different continents by several authors all claiming the same thing. Difficult to carry out a hoax in those days with no modern technology for communication don’t you think?
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:39pmyet even the disciples often appealed to the knowledge of the Sanhedrin when discussing Jesus and who he was by stating….“As you yourselves know” or “as you yourselves witnessed” People saw the crucifixion happen, entire towns saw the miracles. Know one of reason I know, atheist or otherwise disputes that something powerful occurred at the time of Jesus, all evidence points to His physical existence. Occam‘s Razor my friend Occam’s razor………
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:46pm@WATCHTHEOTHERHAND: This is where I’m always confused by these debates. How sure are you of the authenticity of the bible? Anyone can say they found Noah’s Ark; where they believe Moses spoke to God or received the Torah and commandments. A lot is misinformation to make sure the believer his or her faith is true. When I was studying Judaism many will source Jewish websites that will go over how there is evidence for the Jews in Ancient Egypt. But under closer examination the information was incorrect, fraud, or other similar views. There are records that mention Israel or people native to Israel; but not many Jewish slaves and the events of Exodus as described in either the bible or quran. Seeing this I feel the bible is most likely influenced by ancient man of their past. Here two of the many websites I have used to interpret my skepticism of the bible and biblical history. Look through the websites and see how I interpret the bible differently from you do.
Report Post »http://www.usbible.com/usbible/ and http://www.christianitydisproved.com/
Michael
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:49pmBy free will you may do & say as you like. By the comandments you may expect punishment when the exercise of your free will runs counter to the commandments, which constitutes criminal behavior. So do I respect you or your right to be a criminal? No. Do I think you should be able to spread a gospel of crime and seduce others to your path of destruction? No. This is the march of the age old criminal, Satan, who’s flock is growing in these end times. Let your heart rest peaceful with trust in G-d, we shall be victorious over Satan and the wicked.
Report Post »The Jewish Avenger
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:51pmFYI: In this debate the moment you refer to God as “god” you lost the debate. Lack of respect. Don’t get it now, then you never will. That’s why to most people the word atheists is synonymous to naive or trash. Argue all you want, that’s how most people take it.
Lack of respect = Lack of able to listen to what you have to say.
But hey, enjoy your party at D.C.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:53pmEveryone is entitled to their own opinions and views. I do not believe in Satan or free-will. I believe in human nature. To me there is no such thing as God-given rights and morals.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:06pm@THE JEWISH AVENGER: I could care less if I spell the term God with either a lower or upper case “G”. Jews do not write the entire name for their God because they believe it can be erased and that God’s name is holy. I use Allah when I’m discussing Islam. But it’s me. I try to be as respectful and have my writing understandable to someone.
Report Post »Just_Us
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:27pmTo deny the existence of a creator is akin to denying gravity. There are many thoughts on gravity, many beliefs. But if you climb up on your chair and jump off, regardless of your belief/faith, you will be pulled back down on to the earth. My way of sorting through all of the religions is by putting them to the gravity test. If I can predict an outcome by applying religious principles, then I would have to say it is a reliable religion that I can place my faith in. What makes biblical Christianity distinct is the predictability of outcomes if you follow the directions. Man has created religion to somehow reach God, but God provided one way to reach him. It makes logical sense if you remove religion from the equation. Another way to put it on a more personal level is valentines day. Religion is me deciding my wife wants lingerie without asking her or considering her likes and dislikes. A relationship dictates that if I want a correct answer, I should just ask her and she will tell me….chocolate sir…the more the better! Same with God, religion supposes to know the mind of God and much has been written crediting God as the author. Put all religions to the same litmus test and you will find under equal conditions, one will deliver while others fail. Not saying that men will not fail, but God was intelligent enough to provide a single path to himself that is simple and resonates to all people. That is the HOW TO…..don‘t ask me the WHY because that I just don’t get.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:31pm@ DEMOCRIT…..I appreciate your honest so much, thank you for your questions. They are fair. Let me ask you this. What tests for evidence do you use to determine if something is credible or not? In other words, do you believe any work of antiquity if so why do you believe it. What criteria did you use to fairly evaluate it? If not, why not? What evidence supported the discrediting of that particular work or writing? Example, for years the idea of a place known as Jericho was mocked by modern archeologists, until the day it was discovered with walls that fell outward, not inward as was usual. For years, archeologists mocked the idea of a place called Canaan. However, Ebla tablets discovered in the 1970s in Northern Syria from around 2300 B.C. demonstrate that personal and place names in the Patriarchal accounts are genuine. In use in Ebla was the name “Canaan,” a name critics once said was not used at that time and was used incorrectly in the early chapters of the Bible. This is just one of many examples my friend.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:32pm@ Just-Us: Everyone sees their faith differently. Even though you see your views in this concept; other people would disagree. That doesn’t it is correct or wrong. It is nothing more then faith. Both the big bang and evolution didn’t need a god to come about. As a deist I believe in a Supreme Deity. That is just me and how I see the universe and all life. I just cannot come to terms believe in the Christian God or the Jewish God or whatever. All these religions to me are man-made influenced from their views of the world.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:41pm@WATCHTHEOTHERHAND: I understand what you’re saying. I wouldn’t doubt their are many sites or stories that influenced the bible. What I’m trying to point out I do not see that the bible is historical. Like What the bible describes from verse-to-verse and chapter-to-chapter. I feel people over many, many years influenced the stories of the bible to explain different events, concepts, humanity, etc. I tried looking at the same views as people of faith; I just cannot come to terms in believing what they believe. Throughout the years I have tried to experience Islam by going to the mosque for prayer services and other events; going to different churches and studying the bible, and etc. I just do not have faith in order to believe in religion. Sorry but it’s me. I’m happy where I stand in my life.
Report Post »RightThinking1
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 3:06pm“…and have our own moral laws. ”
Report Post »Well, that would be the problem, wouldn’t it? A ‘personal morality’ (which is what secularists generally claim), is no morality at all. There is no way of substituting law for morality. In a truly moral society, there would be no need for law at all! We have found that human nature is immutable, however, and there will always be some number of miscreants, and thus the necessity for laws that prescribe the manner in which we are to deal them.
My point here is that ‘law’ must spring from a society that possesses a strong, well defined morality, otherwise it degenerates into a tyranny of the majority (using Jefferson’s words). THAT, is actually what secularists desire. Secularists do desire law that springs from morality, they want morality that springs from law. The left have successfully harnessed this inclination, in case you haven’t noticed. Almost all social questions have been converted to legal questions.The measure of morality has become “Is it legal?”, and sometimes, “Is it illegal”? I can think of no better example than ‘Hate Speech” laws. The secular left have recognized that there is no ‘moral’ basis (no matter who defines morality) for suppressing the expression of strongly held opinion. Thus, absent any ‘moral’ imperative, they simply press for (successfully) a law, which by a stroke, simultaneously legitimizes their ‘moral’ perspective and transmutes others into lawbreakers. Nice, huh? Take your choice; Toj
democritusoilder267
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 3:18pmI’m neither left nor right. Humans are social creatures. Which will cause them to form societies but on the majorities customs and practices.
Report Post »Lord_Frostwind
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:34pmAnd I was thinking that Atheists didn’t like organized religion. Yet here they are, well on their way to becoming one themselves.
I hope the irony of the situation is not lost upon the nonbelievers.
Report Post »PeopleDontWantTheTruth
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:38pmThere is nothing scientific, intellectual or reasonable about denying the Creator. That belief flies in the face of the overwhelming evidence. Simply put… it is just plain foolish. (Ps 14:1)
Report Post »cassandra
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:53pmhey where do you think those moral values came from ???
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 7:13pmHitler killed the Jews, and many others, because he was told to. By other Jews. The Bolshevik revolution killed 60 million+. The Civil War (created by the Rothschilds, gifted half the US to Lionel, and the other half to James) killed 5.5million Southern Americans. Only one world system is responsible for these mass murders of the history of the world: Zionism. WWI was to set up the communist (zionist) state of Russia. They failed though, but as soon as the ‘accords’ were dry, WWII was already in the making.
“In 1857, the financial leaders of the Canaanite powers, the House of Rothschild, assembled to
Report Post »celebrate the wedding of Lionel’s daughter, Leonora, to her cousin, Alphonse, son of James de
Rothschild of Paris. At this gathering, Disraeli said, “Under this roof are the heads of the family of
Rothschild-a name famous in every capital of Europe and every division of the globe. If you like,
we shall divide the United States into two parts, one for you, James, and one for you, Lionel.
Napoleon shall do exactly and all that I shall advise him”(p. 228, “The Rothschilds,” by John
Reeves).” (pre-Civil war)
brother_ed
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 7:23pm@DEMOCRITUSOILDER267
I do not agree, but I do respect your point of view.
As a Latter Day Saint, I stand by our 11th Article of Faith which reads:
“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where or what they may.”
With a little respect, we can all get along.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 7:46pm@Demo: Pick up some Eustace Mullins.
Canaanites refer the sons of Canaan, whom Noah cursed. Mizraim, one of Ham’s sons, founded Egypt. ‘Hebrew’ or Habiriu, simply means ‘one who is from across the river’ In Ancient Egypt, Habiriu was never seen without the ideogram, ‘sagaz’ which means cutthroat, or destroyer. So the Hebrews before the time of Moses, were known as the ‘cutthroat bandits from across the river’. The Canaanites developed a monopoly on purple dye, which was extremely popular, so they renamed themselves the Phoenecians, after ‘phoenicia’ which means purple.
“Chambers Encyclopaedia notes that ”After 1200 B.C. the name of Canaanites vanished from history. They changed their name to Phoenician.” Thus the most notorious and most hated people on earth received a new lease on life. The barbaric Canaanites had disappeared. The more civilized Phoenicians, seemingly harmless merchant folk, took their place. Having obtained a monopoly on purple dye, which was highly prized throughout the ancient world, the Canaanites advertised their control over this product by calling themselves Phoenicians, from phoenicia (phoenikiea), the Greek word for purple.
Report Post »Zenzazin
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:31pm@KAdams – “Hitler killed the Jews… because he was told to. By other Jews.” – So Hitler was taking orders from the people he despised most? Very logical.
“WWI was to set up the communist (zionist) state of Russia. They failed though, but as soon as the ‘accords’ were dry, WWII was already in the making.” – So my family, who was persecuted and murdered and those lucky enough to survive flee Russia before WWI and not end up in concentration camps, were really going through all that to create the homeland? That is both offensive and illogical.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 10:47pmNo-one ever claimed Satan was logical, and he certainly doesn‘t care whether or not anyone’s offended. We are chattel. So has been prescribed to us by those that control the world. I’m not the one who came up with it, so don’t get mad at me.
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 4:34amAtheists take advantage of the fact that CHRISTIANS know they will spend eternity in hell if they don’t see the light and come to Christ. They are not trying to get you atheists to believe what they believe just to ‘gather you up’ or ‘not have any opposition’… it’s because we believe what GOD told us and what lies ahead for you poor, illogical and lost souls.
Report Post »Where do you poor loosers think LOVE comes from? What caused the BIG BANG and the materials that exploded came from? YOU have 0 proof that there is no GOD and we have unlimited proof that He does. I personally don’t care what happens to you other than I feel the duty to share the GOSPEL (GOOD NEWS) in hopes that you will see the light, but otherwise, I find you obnoxious, cruel, unenlightened and frankly the most self-centered, blinded group of people en masse that exists on earth today aside from the Muslims. YOU are paid by GEORGE SOROS of course. Poor silly old man. He’ll find out soon enough what happens to non-believers in hell.
Zenzazin
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 5:31pm@Bryan from Florida – “We have all seen this before. You are going to have group of people all gathered together to tell everyone how superior and better they are all others that do not share there beliefs.” –
I know!!! Sounds exactly like “Restoring Honor/Courage”!!!
“The only difference from this Rally and the other ones from the past, is there will not be any BIG RED FLAGS with a SICKLE & HAMMER or a SWASTIKA on it. But you know, there might be.”
– nor will there be people calling for the deaths or for physical harm to come upon those they disagree with… unlike almost every single poster on the Blaze.
@KAdams – how convenient you can justify your bigotry and anti-semitism based on the devil. Using actual logic and facts might be more useful, though.
Report Post »Informingall
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:29pm@girlnurse…. You don’t have the faith necessary to question everything that religion has ever taught you? Look at it this way. I just believe in 1 fewer god than you do.
Report Post »moderatelogic
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 9:11pmexactly it‘s pretty easy to see what’s best logically for a civilized society.. working together compromise.. working for a better world.. cause when you don’t have an after life.. all that matters is what you do now.. you make your mark on the world by what you do and the lives you touch.. and everyone that is changed by you’re presence.. which is why you have to be so careful with you’re life.. you don’t get a second chance.. you have one chance to get it right.. one chance to make the world a more beautiful place.. one chance to teach you’re children right and one chance to touch everyone around you.. you don’t get to take back anything you do.. Darn proud to be a secular humanist..
Report Post »BoomSlander
Posted on February 19, 2012 at 12:46pm@TROLLTRAINER
”
No, because who is to decide what is moral and what isn’t? What makes murder wrong? What makes homosexuality right? Homosexuality is against evolution.
Can you be a moral person without believing in God? Sure you can. But those morals have to come from somewhere. Why was Hitler wrong to gas Jews? He believed he was cleansing his country, why is that wrong?
It is ironic that atheists believe they are logical and intellectual when the opposite is true. There are a million roadblocks to atheism, the only thing keeping you from knowing God is your own unbelief.”
I find it pretty terrifying that you need a book that is thousands of years old to tell you that murder and stealing is wrong.
By the way, Hammurabi’s Code is where we get “Do not murder” and “Do not steal”. In fact, pretty much every law we‘ve adopted from the 10 commandments was actually adopted from Hammurabi’s code.
Report Post »13th Imam
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:01pmTHE BLAZE should do an expose on what hoops Glenn & Co, had to go thru to do 8/28. All the permits, their costs, the actual costs. Insurance?? Sanitation?? Security??
Since the ANTI-Thiests have a website , don’t they have to follow the same rules??
Nah , didn’t think so. And 8/28 was a great day.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:04pmNo more than OWS, another of the administration’s protected class of idiots.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:54amTwo thoughts:
1. More power to ‘em
2. Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Report Post »oldguy49
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:05pmbe sure to have plenty of clean up and police personrel on duty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »JesusAddict
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:11pmWhy would people be so against God?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:20pmIt has nothing to do with being “against god”. You can’t be against a fictitious literary character. I am not really sure what they will do, but probably have some speakers, some things for sale, . . . stuff like that.
I went to something similar one time. Didn’t really care for it, and didn’t feel like I fit in. Oh well.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:24pmDo you believe in unicorns? If not, why are you against unicorns? Why are you anti-unicorns? What did they have do to you.
Do you believe in fairies? If not, why are you against fairies? What did they ever do to you? Did you once have a bad experience with fairies that turned you away from them?
Atheists can‘t be against something they don’t think exists. They can however, be against people who claim to say God exists.
Get it?
That being said, even if I lived near this area I wouldn’t go to the event. I’ve never been the one to feel like I have to be part of a group or that I NEED to be around people who think like I do…..which is why I come here, lol.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:37pmHey MOD,
If you can’t be against something that does not exist, why do you spend so much time here doing just that?
Is that more of your atheistic logic?
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:40pmOh I see now,
You are just against people that believe?
Is that what it is?
You are just against us, not something that does not exist?
Against us huh?
Are you at war with us?
Seems like it.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:46pmHey MOD
Funny that you and DEVO, (in another thread on this page) are both using the “Fairies” comparison.
Is that the new atheist talking points word for the day?
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:24pmJohn 7:7
The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil.
John 14:17
The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
1 Corinthians 1:27
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
Romans 1:22
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
Romans 8
Report Post »7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
The Jewish Avenger
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:54pmMost athiests are “faeries” I hope they poll to find out what % are gay or transgender. That percent should be at least 70%.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:12pmJewish Avenger, . . . you’re really being ignorant here. It is okay to debate, but you should lay off the strawman fallacies. They make you look desperate. Sound arguments work better.
Report Post »SpeckChaser
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 5:45pmBilly
In regard to this article, does the phare “misery loves company” ring a bell.
BTW, what did you think of my suggestion of citing rules for radicals rule #’s?
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:13pmHi Speckchaser,
Yep, “Misery Loves Company” That could be the poster slogan for the event.
Or maybe “The reason rally………for no reason at all”
Or maybe as I saw mentioned elsewhere here earlier….”Nothing ventured…..Nothing gained”
Your idea is a good one Speck. I will work on that. Of course you know that JZS will come back with………”I never even really heard of that guy Alinski until Beck started ranting about him. Didn’t he write some silly little book back in the sixties or something”
He‘s a funny guy isn’t he?
Speaking of JZS, I see that you saw his “abstract” reply to your post in the Platypus story. I was hoping that you would.
Report Post »SpeckChaser
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:29pmBILLY
You know, not much suprises me on this site. However, when I saw the abstract comment I was left temporarily speechless.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:48am@ModerationIsBest:
Unicorn: “A mythical creature resembling a horse, with a single horn in the center of its forehead”
I myself don’t believe in unicorns, but I also want presume to say it is impossible for them to exist. Although if you would like to make the case for the existence of unicorns I would be glad to hear, figuratively speaking.
Now, I don’t consider myself anti-unicorn although I have been labeled as such. But really, just because I‘m constantly protesting them and find my money well spent in billboards and signs denouncing them as myths doesn’t mean I’m anti-unicorn, I’m simply aunicornist.
Report Post »Dutchracer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:53amThat’s exactly what I was thinking!!! “All Us Atheists! Let’s All Gather Together and Show the Country and the World that We Believe in NOTHING!”
And nothing you will become!
Report Post »What a Movement!
ZeldaZick
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:06pmMy thoughts also, a non-religion that believes in nothing.
Report Post »The Jewish Avenger
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:56pmAnd I’m really getting sick and tired of them claiming that science is an atheists POV as well. Very little of science has any remoteness of conflicting with Biblical views, that is of course unless you believe we can from alien fecal bacteria….
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:48pm@Avenger
Report Post »I completely agree. After all, even evolution doesn’t contradict G-d’s existence. All it does is help us understand G-d’s wisdom in creation. It shows that he built his creations to last by allowing them to change as their environment does. And who’s to say he has no role in directing those changes.
KAdams
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 7:18pm“Five things did Canaan charge his sons: love one another, love robbery, love lewdness, hate your masters, and do not speak the truth.” Pes. 113b.
Report Post »moderatelogic
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 9:03pmI wish i could go should be pretty go.. i’d love to hear some intellectual conversation.. but as the fact that I have 4 kids… and have to work.. no go.. to bad.. Maybe I‘ll take the kids when they’re older.. think they’d really enjoy it..
Report Post »amerbur
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:52amThey should be so proud of their unbelief. It has to be such a struggle for them…having to live their lives believing they are nothing but a teaspoon full of chemicals, disconnected from the source of life, the creator of heaven and earth, all along, trying to define values, morals and boundries based on generations of intellectually declining and emotionally warped individuals looking through the ever shifting overtone window.
Report Post »Nicealltype
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:19pmIts fine to believe you are nothing but a teaspoon full of chemicals but where did the chemicals come from?
Report Post »Mrs.M
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 5:47pmNo wonder athiests are so grumpy. It takes a lot of energy to not believe and then fight about it!
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:51amIronically, Hell is having the same event.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:55amHeh, yeah. Think of it as the after party…They will all be along soon enough…
Report Post »BassChick
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:55am@SQUIDVETOHIO
Best belly laugh in a long while…thanks!
Report Post »Not your average Joe
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:13pmSo why did your God create Satan and evil? You can’t say that Satan rebelled against God, because according to Christian dogma, God is all-knowing. That means He knows everything, past, present, and future. So God created Satan knowing that he would rebel. That is, God created Satan for the purpose of rebelling, ergo, God created evil. Of course, if Satan took God by surprise, then God couldn’t be all-knowing. That, then, begs the question: What else isn’t God?
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:20pmGod created angels and people with free will. You get to choose to follow God. Lucifer decided he was better than God. So do atheists.
Report Post »Winedude
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:22pmAverage Joe…here is something more to contemplate: Either God can prevent evil but chooses not to, which means he is not all-good, or he wishes to prevent evil but cannot, which means he is not all-powerful.
Report Post »God gives all of us free will,…and when we come to the fork in the road where one path will lead us to heaven and one to hell, we have a choice, and God is not responsible for what choice we make. But, if God is all knowing, he would know which path we take.
All this being said, what’s the point?
SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:34pm@NOT YOUR AVERAGE JOE. You’re mis-understanding of biblical theology, has apparently lead you to post this. Let me educate you. First of all, I believe the Bible not church dogma. The Bible (KJV) is the ultimate authority on christian theology.
Now to your point, God did create Satan, or Lucifer by his original name. God did NOT create evil. He created free will. God did not create unwilling slaves. Lucifer’s exalted position caused his pride to betray him. He used his FREE WILL to rebel against God and caused a third of the angels to follow him. God created HELL for Satan and his angels, not for humans. God does not “send” people to hell, we go voluntarily. “God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance”. Lastly, the notion that you, the creature has the audacity to question the creator who wills your every breath is abominable. “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God.”
I pray you rethink, and study the Bible. Your opinion or my opinion of God is irrelevant. Truth is Truth. The Bible is truth whether you and I believe it or not.
It‘s the coming to grips with our sinfulness and accepting God’s forgiveness through His Son is what separates a Christian from an infidel.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:39pmBut IF the bible is actually true, there IS no real “choice”. If it weren’t just “people telling me to believe this way or else something bad will happen to me when I die”, . . . and were actually something that made an effort to personally reach me, . . . then there may be something to this “choice”. But there isn’t. IF. . . . [and that is a BIG "if"] the bible is true, yet leaves nothing but “blind faith” as being “the only way this god accepts you. . . . . because you just happened to be open enough to believe something without a shread of credible evidence”, yet tortures you for eternity if you don’t. . .then he‘s an immoral being who doesn’t deserve any “worship” anyway [and the idea of 'worship' is another topic for another time].
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:39pm@WINEDUDE Those are straw men options. God is not confined to man’s sense of righteousness. “As heaven is above earth, so are My ways above your ways” saith the Lord. God’s glory is shown through His grace and forgiveness. This is why He allows evil to happen. Because He knows His chosen will repent of it and glorify and worship Him. He said that He is a jealous God. He desires and deserves to be worshipped. That does not diminish His omnipotence, omnipresence or His omniscience! I know when my kid is about to misbehave but, I give him a change to do right before I correct him/her. Why would God be any different?
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:46pmWinedude
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1
God gives all of us free will,…and when we come to the fork in the road where one path will lead us to heaven and one to hell, we have a choice, and God is not responsible for what choice we make. But, if God is all knowing, he would know which path we take.
All this being said, what’s the point?
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This is the silliest argument of all, and I have had it for years now with otherwise intelligent people.
This is a non sequitur. God having foreknowledge of your decision has nothing to do with the fact that you still make the decision. It changes nothing on your end. God is omnipresent and timeless, time does not exist for Him. He sees all at once. He knows every hair on your head and what you will do next year on this day. That does not change the fact that you still decide what you do second by second in our dimension.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:48pm“because you just happened to be open enough to believe something without a shread of credible evidence”
That is laughable and demonstrates that you either don’t understand the Bible as it pertains to history, science, archeology, statistics or you are just proclaiming your opinion. I could write for days of the provable validity of the Bible. I’ll keep it short though, the mere existance of Israel fulfills Old Testament prophesies that were thought dead after the Romans sacked Jeruasalem in 70AD and scattered the Jews (as prophesized by Ezekial). The oldest book of the Bible (Job) declared that the earth was round. It also provides the concept of Pi (3.14) as measuring circles.
More importantly, the Book of Daniel prophesized TO THE DAY when Jesus would enter Jerusalem and proclaimed King. He also prophesized the Babylonian empire, the Greek Empire, Alexander the Great splitting the Medo Persian Empires, The Romans and the new world order yet to come.
If that isn’t at least a “shred”, than you are willingly not looking my friend.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:23pm“I’ll keep it short though, the mere existance of Israel fulfills Old Testament prophesies that were thought dead after the Romans sacked Jeruasalem in 70AD and scattered the Jews (as prophesized by Ezekial). The oldest book of the Bible (Job) declared that the earth was round. It also provides the concept of Pi (3.14) as measuring circles.
More importantly, the Book of Daniel prophesized TO THE DAY when Jesus would enter Jerusalem and proclaimed King. He also prophesized the Babylonian empire, the Greek Empire, Alexander the Great splitting the Medo Persian Empires, The Romans and the new world order yet to come. ”
Because a book has historical facts doesn’t mean that everything in it is [therefore] true. The “prophetic” sections of the bible are either misinterpretations, misunderstandings, or fabrications based upon nothing previously being stated. Much of Matthews “prophecies” are that way.
And how can anyone who wrote the biblical texts “prophesy” a culture that outdated it? :-/
It didn’t state Pi as 3.14 at all. But even if it were, that would give no evidence of anything other than a person who happened to understand math more than others.
And “the CIRCLE of the earth” doesn’t not equate to “sphere”, especially when all the other references to the earth were “flat” in nature.
Remember, you can INTERPRET anything from the bible, given the right word sequences.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 3:03pm“And how can anyone who wrote the biblical texts “prophesy” a culture that outdated it? :-/”
Because they were divinely influenced. That’s kind of the point. Nothing has been mis-interepreted. I know the historical context and the audience to whom the differencc books were written. It’s an easy and convenient argument to claim misinterpretation. Give an example. You can’t because I will own you on fact. The OT prophesized where and when Jesus was born, that he would be crucified, the words he said while on the cross, that He would be betrayed for 30 peices of silver, that most of His own people would reject Him, that He would perform miracles.
All almost 500 years before He was born. You want to believe this is “min-interepreted” because accepting it means you have to aknowledge Him as your judge and creator which you WILL do anyways. It means there might be things about your life that is wrong. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.“ and ”There is none righteous, no not one.” Whether you believe it or not means nothing to me. I KNOW it to be true as I know 2 + 2 = 4.
“Without faith, it is impossible to please God.”
Because of this, He will never fully reveal Himself until the Second Coming. By then, it is too late for His mercy.
No, it doesn’t say Pi = 3.14. It says a cubit divided by the breath of a hand. A survey of 100 people done showed the average to be about 3.14. Unless I mis-interpreted.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 4:29pmSquid, it doesn’t matter if you believe you would “own me” on this. People can interpret passages to mean MANY things. Because they may have a similar viewpoint, they automatically become “prophecy”, yet when read in their contexts, it is clear they are not. You can make all sorts of things appear to be absolute, but toss out that which didn’t correspond. So, for YOU [or the apologist], you believe yourself to be “absolutely right”.
You take a section of a story . . . and because of similar events, assume it to be prophetic. “Dogs surrounding me” suddenly transform into Roman Soldiers. Piercing hands look confirming until you realize that NOT all of Jesus’ bones were “out of joint”. But you would say that metaphoric language is at use. THAT is the point. Begging the story to mean whatever you want it to.
These “prophecies” are about as convincing as “the circle of the earth” meaning a sphere, in stark contradiction to the many other sections showing “flat earth” thinking.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 7:51pm@Troll:
Sorry, the angels aren’t given free will. They were created for the sole purpose of serving God. Lucifer and the 1/3 of the host (out of tens of thousands) that fell ‘lost their first estate’. That‘s why there’s the lake of burning fire. Jesus didn’t come for the salvation of the angels. There is no salvation for those angels that fell. “Misery loves company” certainly applies, in this case, because Satan’s doing everything he can to get as many people to join him in his eternal torment.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:01pmHebrews
13:7-9 “Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.”
What Jesus said at the beginning of the earth, what he said during his time on earth, and what he will say in the future is the same, and will always be the same. “Be not carried about with diverse and strange doctrines” = All the different (copywritten = mammon) bibles.
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Luke 16:13
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Copywritten bibles server their master, mammon.
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:49amIf they had one iota of intellect they would call themselves agnostic. How could they know everything that there is to know to rule out God? Come on, I know some atheists are out there…I know you trashed the definitions.
Report Post »moderatelogic
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 9:07pm99.999% sure of something isn‘t 100 but it’s close enough to say it’s good.. I’m just curious what the deists do.. those who believe in a higher power but no exact religion.. alot of the founding fathers were deists
Report Post »NewLife56
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:49amWatch this be a Tax Free one.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:48amSo what. Nuts deserve to have fun too.
Report Post »cookcountypatriot
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:47amknow jesus ,know peace….no jesus,no peace
Report Post »JesusAddict
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:14pmthats the truth
Report Post »Mitchm999
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:47amIt is about time that this is happening. I am sure this will bring out lots of scared, religious freaks who are afraid of the atheists message. It seems the christians have very little confidence in their beliefs.
Report Post »HorseCrazy
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:00pmoh yes we Christians are just nuts right? all of that don’t lie, don’t murder, love one another. oh yes so crazy to live by a code of ethics. Just look at all the secularists have done for society the breakdown of the family unit, abortion, false agenda driven science, barack obama, the aclu ….should be fun to watch the little hate filled trolls spewing their nonsense. Those who profess to hate religion and churches have created their own church of non belief they are too blind to see it.
Report Post »troymac20
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:42pmSorry but Christians lie and murder everyday.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:35pmYou missed the proof train. Please try and back up that ridiculous argument. Remember, don‘t confuse ’Catholics’ with Christians, or pagans with Christians or Canaanites with Christians.
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:47am.
Well it’s about time, I don’t believe in Obama either…..What?…..My Bad Ya’ll, wrong belief…..
Maybe we’ll get lucky a God will provide a tornado, flood or something, to make belivers out of them…..
Report Post »JBaer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:46amWell D.C. would be the place to hold it. Satan has such a stronghold there. Ungodly sheeple.
Report Post »STEEEEVE53
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:46amI fully expect the atheists to have a gathering as successful as Ed Schultz’s was…..I just hope they leave the place as clean as Ed’s people did………
Report Post »Stoic one
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:58amWhat? nobody showed up?
Report Post »momprayn
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:46amI thought they did this in the “60′s”????? Did a great job too. Oh – new generation — gotta do it again………..
Report Post »People (Satan vs. God) never changes or ends……hearing there is also a huge Christian revival – mainly with the youth….biggest one ever. End times you know.
Stoic one
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:46amWell let us see….. if this amounts to anything on March 24th. Then perhaps I will pay attention a little more.
Report Post »John1863
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:45amSo this is how far they have come? Woodstock was a bunch of hippie, drugged out non-believers also so how is this different? I find it funny that a non-believer needs to throw a party so everyone knows that they don’t believe.
Report Post »Harry Assenback
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:44amSo…….the purpose is to get to together and talk about nothing? Makes sense.
Report Post »Mitchm999
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:48amThat is about the level of understanding of philosophical questions that you get from a typical christian.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:00pmThink I will hold a rally for those who do not believe in Bigfoot. It is about time we spread our message to the masses that there is no Bigfoot and that those who believe in him are intellectually challenged. That is why we make it our life’s mission to dispel belief in Sasquatch.
This is about the level of understanding of philosophical questions that you get from a typical atheist.
Report Post »Harry Assenback
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:05pmMITCH……..Can you explain to me how God does not exist. Would to love to hear the answer from such a deep thinker as yourself.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:10pmActually that would be a good cause, I’m tired of the bigfoot nonsense lol.
The only difference is, those who think Bigfoot exists don’t pray to him, and believe that we get our morals from him, or that we should live our life by his laws and don’t believe that others will spend an eternity getting tortured for not believing in him.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:15pmHarry, I would love to hear your proof that Faeries do not exist. Do that, then I will give you evidence that god doesn’t exist.
Report Post »ZeldaZick
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:27pm@Deavon
Report Post »Hello my friend, so what do you believe in and how do you know it’s real? Please don’t answer with a question, as you often do. What do you know/can prove is real?
trolltrainer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:28pm“The only difference is, those who think Bigfoot exists don’t pray to him, and believe that we get our morals from him, or that we should live our life by his laws and don’t believe that others will spend an eternity getting tortured for not believing in him.”
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So where DID you get your morals? Maybe MY morals are better than yours?
Seriously, why does it bother you what I believe? I have to live with liberals and atheists, why are you too good to live with Christians? Do you care if I believe in extra-terrestrial life? Global warming? Santa Clause?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:33pmHey, Zelda. I can’t really answer that. Many things don’t have an absolute proof. On a simplistic level, I know that the computer I am typing this on is real. The ground I walk on, the air I breath, the water I drink. Things which can be tested with repeatability have ample evidence as to the state of their reality. Things that are subjective are harder to “prove”.
Report Post »ZeldaZick
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:46pm@Deavon
Report Post »What harm comes from believing? Check out Blaze Pascal, the brillant mind who decided that you put yourself more at risk as a non-believer than a person of Faith.
My friend, you are going to think I’m crazy, but I KNOW that there is a God. He spoke to me once, for a brief moment. I won’t go into details. Faith is not something you can find thru logic, and if God does not want you to find Him, you won’t either.
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:51pm@Troll
Some will argue object morality doesn’t exist, that we as a society dictate what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. Look at it this way, if tomorrow if you were to become an atheists, are you saying that you would have no reason not to kill everyone? That you would no reason not to rape everyone of the opposite sex you see? If so, I question your morality.
Look at our history as a proclaimed “Christian Nation” Well not too long ago we had slavery and inequality for women. Did Christians suddenly say that “wow, the Bible actually doesn’t condone slavery and treat women like second class citizens” or did we as a society gradually change over time and dictate that those things are unacceptable? Look at children, if we dictate “right” and “wrong” from a Godly being, then you wouldn’t have times when scolding a kid for doing something “wrong” you ask them, “do you understand why what you did was wrong?“ and they say ”no” and then you have to explain why it‘s unacceptable and hope they won’t do it again. The kid should just KNOW it it’s wrong then, right?
Also, if you claim to get your morals from God(a specific God), then you are not being moral, you are being obedient. There is a difference between the two.
I have no problem with you as I hope you have no problem with me. I live in a heavily Christian area, and I have many friends. Some atheists go too far, just like some religions go too far.
Report Post »Harry Assenback
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:52pmDeavon……..Fairies do not exist??? Take the next plane to San Fran. Awaiting your answer.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:03pmZelda, . . . Pascal’s Wager is problematic. He only accounted for the ONE god of christianity being true. IF there had only been one religion in the world, there may be something to it. But that isn’t the case.
Now, there is nothing wrong with having faith in it. When that faith hurts others, though, . . . that’s where the problem lies.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:04pmI understand your argument MODERATION… I used to think there were millions of shades of gray myself. I clearly remember laughing at a Christian (I was not at the time) girlfriend who tried to argue that everything is black and white. Now I am saved and you know what? She was right. You can make arguments for or against anything, but God’s Word is clear. Sometimes I will do wrong for a good reason, like my wife asking if she looks fat…but a lie is still a lie.
You are a smart guy (gal) and you present good arguments and are always polite and tolerant. I respect that. Like I have stated elsewhere here, I know what I know. I could not become an atheist because I have accepted Christ and He abides within. I am now His and nothing can tear me from His grasp.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:05pmHarry, . . . please don’t be insensitive to people. And you know which FAERIES I’m talking about. . . .and why I spelled it that way. There are many people who believe in The Fae. When you can prove them wrong, I will address your question.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:05pm@MOD
You really are desperate, aren’t you?
Why do you so need to convince others that your non-belief is relevant?
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:23pm@Troll
I use to believe like you do now, so it seems like we switched spots, lol. Ironically, a “conversion” either way gives no proof to either one of our claims, that‘s what’s so funny about the whole thing to me.
Thank you for your kind words and I wish you the best.
Report Post »Mitchm999
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:26pmGee, harry, that is a great way to ask a deep philosophical question: xplain why something doesn’t exist. It’s like asking, “Explain why alternate universes don‘t exist or flying cows or other things about on par with christians’ beliefs. There are lots of things you can‘t prove don’t exist but that doesn’t make them true.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:44pm“Now, there is nothing wrong with having faith in it. When that faith hurts others, though, . . . that’s where the problem lies.:”
atheism has SLAUGHTERED hundreds of millions and ENSLAVED billions….
the faith of atheism sure is a problem.
Report Post »moderatelogic
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 9:05pmI think the purpose is more like holocaust survivers getting together.. when you have been attacked constantly for you’re beliefs.. it’s nice to get together with people who understand your struggles..
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:43amMud will be there 2.
Report Post »13th Imam
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:43amThis would be a great time for church groups everywhere to schedule trips to DC. I will be there with T-shirts for sale, GOD BLESS AMERICA, sales may be lite but, the reactions , priceless. and I will be videoed.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:15pmWhy would you feel the need to do this?
So you‘re saying you’re going there trying to provoke people? How would that be any different than anything you claim atheists do?
Except you claim to have a loving God who said things like, “turn the other cheek”, “love your enemies”, “Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult” and “Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them”
If you claim to be the bigger person, with the better morals, show it in your daily life.
Report Post »Balpit
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:31pmThe FFRF provokes people every December by setting up a plaque that mocks religion and its followers. But that’s OK.
Report Post »13th Imam
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:31pmAt 8/28 many Leftists strolled among us. No reaction. No arrests. No harsh words.
Can these “Peaceful Anti-Theists say the same?? We shall find out.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:03pmHey MOD
Very curious.
Why would you consider setting up a booth selling t-shirts that say “GOD BLESS AMERICA”, a provocation?
What is provocative about that?
How is that any different than what you do here every day?
Quoting you:
“Except you claim to have a loving God who said things like, “turn the other cheek”, “love your enemies”, “Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult” and “Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them”
Are you claiming that selling shirts that say “GOD BLESS AMERICA” is repaying evil with evil?
Or that it is insulting you with insult?
That is very interesting Mod.
To me, “GOD BLESS AMERICA” brings about feelings of good, not evil and insult.
Report Post »dbl_blnd
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:50pmGreat idea, 13th imam! I will buy one and scratch out the “B”.
Report Post »BassChick
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:42am…and this is to accomplish what exactly?
Report Post »ZeldaZick
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:09pmN-o-t-h-i-n-g!
Report Post »Nemo13
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:42amMan, these lame people really are trying hard to get people to take an interest in them. (*YAWN*) Who cares about atheists? they are almost as boring as scientologists…
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:39amMan those old radicals are working hard…gathering up sheep…
Report Post »Obama Snake Oil Co
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:49amAt least the muslims will be able to gather them up first in one big sweep! I think it will help fill those ice water salesmen positions that Satan has posted. Wow, bad working conditions, 24 hours a day, no AC and customers that got there just they way they treated other people. I wonder how much Hell Pays?
Report Post »ThatsWhy
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:38amWell good for them.
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