Author Outlines ‘10 Cliches Christians Should Never Use’
- Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:55am by
Billy Hallowell
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Editor’s Note: The Blaze did not compose this list, nor are we endorsing it. We are merely reporting on it to spark conversation about some of the more debated social aspects of the Christian faith.
Christian speaker, author, writer and pastor Christian Piatt has been putting together some fascinating — and, no doubt, contentious — advice lists. His dos and don‘ts cover what he believes to be terms and sayings that followers of Jesus Christ should and shouldn’t utter. His first tally, entitled, “Ten Cliches Christians Should Never Use,” highlights some of the most common phrases believers use and is an attempt to frame each of them as inappropriate, nonsensical or simply not worth touting.
A screen shot from Christian Piatt's web site
“We Christians have a remarkable talent for sticking our feet in our mouths,” he writes. “When searching the words most commonly associated with ‘Christian,’ the list ain’t pretty.”
Piatt contends that striking a number of phrases from the Christian vernacular would make followers of Christ “more tolerable.” In essence, he believes that the sayings are not appreciated by non-Christians. So, what are they, you ask?
You can find each phrase, along with a description from Piatt, below (number seven, in particular, is controversial):
1) “Everything happens for a reason.” I’ve heard this said more times than I care to. I’m not sure where it came from either, but it’s definitely not in the Bible. The closest thing I can come up with is “To everything, there is a season,” but that’s not exactly the same. The fact is that faith, by definition, is not reasonable. If it could be empirically verified with facts or by using the scientific method, it wouldn’t be faith. It would be a theory. Also, consider how such a pithy phrase sounds to someone who was raped. Do you really mean to tell them there’s a reason that happened? Better to be quiet, listen and if appropriate, mourn alongside them. But don’t dismiss grief or tragedy with such a meaningless phrase.
2) “If you died today, do you know where you’d spend the rest of eternity?” No, I don’t, and neither do you. So stop asking such a presumptuous question as this that implies you have some insider knowledge that the rest of us don’t. And seriously, if your faith is entirely founded upon the notion of eternal fire insurance, you’re not sharing testimony; you’re peddling propaganda.
3) “He/she is in a better place.” This may or may not be true. Again, we have no real way of knowing. We may believe it, but to speak with such authority about something we don’t actually know is arrogant. Plus, focusing on the passing of a loved one minimizes the grief of the people they left behind.
Christian Piatt
4) “Can I share a little bit about my faith with you?” Too often, Christians presume we have something everyone else needs, without even knowing them first. Ask someone about their story, but maybe not the second you meet them. Christian evangelism often is the equivalent of a randy young teenager trying to get in good with his new girlfriend. When your personal agenda is more important than the humanity of the person you’re talking to, most people can sense the opportunism from a mile a way.
5) “You should come to church with me on Sunday.” It’s not that we should never invite people to church, but too much of the time, it’s the first thing we do when we encounter someone new. My wife, Amy, and I started a new church eight years ago, founded on the principle of “earning the right to invite.” Invest in people first. Listen to their stories. Learn their passions, their longings, and share the same about yourself. Then, after you’ve actually invested in each other, try suggesting something not related to church to help you connect on a spiritual level. If the person really gets to know you and wants to know more about why you live your life the way you do, they’ll make a point to find out. Then again, if you come off as just another opinionated, opportunistic Christian, why should they honor your predatory approach with a visit to the church that taught you how to act that way in the first place?
6) “Have you asked Jesus into your heart?” As many times as I’ve heard this, I still don’t really know what it means. Why my heart? Why not my liver or kidneys? This also makes Christianity sound like a purely emotional experience, rather than a lifelong practice that can never entirely be realized. But yeah, asking someone if they’re engaged in a lifelong discipline to orient their lives toward Christlike compassion, love and mercy doesn’t exactly have the same ring to it.
7) “Do you accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior?” Again, this is not in the Bible. Anywhere. And for me, it goes against the whole Christlike notion of the suffering servant. People tried to elevate Jesus to the status of Lord, but he rejected it. So why do we keep trying? Plus, the whole idea of a lord is so antiquated, it has no real relevance to our lives today. Be more mindful of your words, and really mean what you say.
8) “This could be the end of days.” This is one of my favorites. We Christians love to look for signs of the end of the world; we practically have an apocalyptic fetish. It’s like we can’t wait until everything comes to a smoldering halt so we can stand tall with that “I told you so” look on our faces, while the nonbelievers beg for mercy. Yeah, that sounds like an awesome religion you’ve got going there. Sign me up!
9) “Jesus died for your sins.” I know, this is an all-time Christian favorite. But even if you buy into the concept of substitutionary atonement (the idea that God set Jesus up as a sacrifice to make good for all the bad stuff we’ve done), this is a abysmal way to introduce your faith to someone. I didn’t ask Jesus to die for me, and if I’m not a Christian, I really have no concept of how that could possibly be a good thing. he whole idea of being washed clean by an innocent man’s blood is enough to give any person nightmares, let alone lead them into a deeper conversation about what Christianity is about.
10) “Will all our visitors please stand?” If someone finally is brave enough to walk through the doors of your church, the last thing they want is to be singled out. They probably don’t know the songs you’re singing or the prayers or responsive readings you’re reading. Depending on the translation of the Bible you use, the scripture may not make much sense, and they probably have no idea where the bathroom is. So why add to the discomfort by making them stand so everyone can stare at them? Also, calling someone a visitor already implies they are simply passing through, that they’re not a part of things. Instead of “visitor” or “guest,” try something less loaded like “newcomer.” Better yet, walk up to them, introduce yourself and learn their name.
Now, some Christians will clearly disagree with Piatt’s assessment of these sayings. What do you think? Let us know in the comments section, below. You can also read more about Piatt, who co-founded Milagro Christian Church in Pueblo, Colorado, here.
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Comments (592)
SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:31pm#8
Hey genius ever read Matthew 24:42 ?
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Heretic of the first order.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:36pmWhile I cannot comment on his personal faith and position before God, I can certainly comment that based upon his own words he is in error and teaching false things. Be on guard and be like the Bereans…
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:37pmBut even if you buy into the concept of substitutionary atonement????? what in the world is this guy implying??? Seems like pretty dangerous scarry information he is peddeling….
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:39pmWhy do you call me Lord and not do what I say —-Jesus
…Jesus did not desuade being called Lord in fact he endorsed it and used it to say why then do you not do what I say??
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:44pmWhile I agree only he and God knows the status of his salvation, I can judge by his fruits that IF he is a christian it is in SPITE of his theology. And if he is a christian, he should have a healthy fear of contradicting God’s clear teaching.
Actually, No. He rejects the Lordship of Jesus Christ. I can confidently say that makes him in no way an actual christian. He has invented his own cult religion.
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:14pmABSOLUTELY. THIS poor dolt does not know what he’s talking about. HE has no true knowledge of GOD or what Jesus spoke about. EVERYTHING he claims is wrong is wrong. NOTHING of what he said is correct. I hope for his sake that he’s younger than 30, other wise he has a lot of learning to do!
What a sorry representation of Christianity. EVERYTHING is backwards. Sickening isn’t it?
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:17pmAs a Christian pastor how can I be cool with the youth, relevant in this generation, get my 15 minutes on MSNBC, and sell alot of books?
I will tell the tale of a different Savior, a different God, a different Gospel. I will argue that all these old farts have got it wrong. My Jesus is young, hip, and knows how to stick it to the man! Just like my OWS brothers and sisters!!
Just another rabble-rouser with a different Gospel hoping to make a lil money, and get a lil fame.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:20pmNo argument from me squid. Upon closer inspection he does seem to undermine the basic tenats of the faith. Remember Paul said if anyone preached a different gospel than the one handed down, even if it be an angel, let him be condemned….
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:22pmChristian Piatt sounds like someone that doesn’t know what their talking about, it all sounds more PC, then anything. But that what a lot Christian leaders are about today, and that is PC and the money, they love that money………
Report Post »Truthbeliever2
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:30pmThis guy must be into Theosophy… NOT Christianity.
Report Post »Jesus.H.Christ
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:51pmLet’s be honest, it’s all a load of nonsense, and for adults to believe a 2000 year old Jewish zombie gives a 2nd thought too any one of you, is frankly hilarious.
NHwinter
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:01pmJesus.H.Christ – You are a pathetic soul. Good luck in the afterlife. And, yes, I know you think the afterlife is bunk.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:24pm“When your personal agenda is more important than the humanity of the person you’re talking to, most people can sense the opportunism from a mile a way.” Truer words were never spoken. The majority of evangelicals I have had knock at my door (we appear to be on the training route for the local regional CLDS) it is evident that they either feel obligated to witness to as many people as possible or feel they are in some kind of competition. In the vast majority of cases they are unable to either present or defend their faith. Even to themselves.
Report Post »CPT_GCF
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:26pm# 2: 1 John 5:13 “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.” I DO KNOW where I’m spending eternity!!!
# 4: Don’t we share our faith in order to fulfill the Great Commission because we care about where they spend the rest of eternity and glorify God?
#9: Romans 8:3-4 “For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” The sinner must recognize that his sin must be dealt with and that Jesus Christ died for his (and my) sins!
Like RangerP pointed out, some people just want to be the hippest thing and tell the story in a different way. Often times it leads to perverting the truth. That, my friends, is what we call a lie!
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:37pm@JHC
Oddly enough, I believe the same thing will happen to MY body, too. And I’m a Latter Day Saint.
It’s my spirit that will go to the other side. True, I believe one day my spirit and body will be reunited, but in the interim, my body will rot, the atoms will be used for trees, animals, whatever.
I remember a quote from a Yogi:
Who are you? I am this body that is in front of you. What if I cut off your arms, etc? How much can I cut off and you still be you? Ok, then I am my thoughts and actions. Do you think unpleasant thoughts? Do things you wish you hadn’t? If you are in control, why do these things happen?
Too long to continue, but you get my point. We are more than our bodies, thoughts and actions. There is something else – our spirit. That’s my story, which you are free to belittle, but I’m sticking to it.
Unlike some, I do not condemn you to an eternity of fire and brimstone, but as a reasonable man, you may want to ponder alternatives.
Report Post »DoGooder
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:41pmWhy is this guy even getting press time? He should research the Bible…or even read it.
Report Post »JohnGalt
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:48pm# 1) “Everything happens for a reason.” yes it does, unless you don’t believe in the sovereignty of God, I mean that’s what the whole bible is about!
“Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.”
#2) “If you died today, do you know where you’d spend the rest of eternity?” Well actually if your a christian yes you do know where you will be. And I quote,
“John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
# 3) “He/she is in a better place.” if they are Christian, yes we know, see 2 answer.
“John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.”
I could go on, but the guy just isn’t right!
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:58pmThis is downright hilarious.
All I see on this particular line of threads is, “This guy is teaching false things, it’s all lies!”
Then I see someone say on here,
“NHWINTER
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:01pm
Jesus.H.Christ – You are a pathetic soul. Good luck in the afterlife. And, yes, I know you think the afterlife is bunk.”
So, this WHOLE list is complete and utter lies, and then this person uses item number 2 from the list this article describes to threaten someone.
How grand it is.
Report Post »Jesus.H.Christ
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:14pmBrother_Ed – a perfectly reasonable response and one with which I struggle to argue with. I have spent a good few years looking into religion and alternatives. I understand that on the blaze I may be titled as an “elitist”, but I have both a degree, and a masters degree in history/history of religion.
Just to address a couple of your points though, in terms of having “negative thoughts”, I just presume this is part of our human brains and our understanding of cause and affect. The same brain functions that enabled our evolution into problem solving primates. We are creative beings and these functions have enabled poets as beautiful as Shakespeare or Yeates. I don’t get the equation that leads from:
I don’t understand all of life = I believe in a specific dogma that is untestable and is free from evidence.
I have nothing but respect for your openness and willingness to open a dialogue, but you’ll need to explain how 1+1=576.
Regards
JHC.
Report Post »Jesus.H.Christ
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:20pmSIO – I don’t pretend to “know” that there isn’t a god. However, when you postulate a theory (in this instance – god), the burden of proof is on your side.
I can‘t prove that there isn’t an orally satisfying unicorn, that flies around the globe giving BJ’s to communists/socialists/Marxists like me. I can‘t prove there isn’t, so using your reasoning, that must mean that there definitely is.
It’s not possible to prove a negative (that god DOESN’T exist), so it’s up to you to prove to me, using evidence, that there definitely is a god.
I’m really surprised that people are still using arguments debunked hundreds of years ago.
Report Post »Annuit Coeptis
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:27pm@JHC
“What if that guy’s right, and when he dies, he’ll be buried in the ground, and his body will fertilize the earth. And, from that bit of earth, he will grow into a large and beautiful tree. And one day a big sweaty logger will come stomping through the woods with an ax, and he’ll cut down the beautiful tree and drag him through the woods to a truck that will take him to a paper mill. And what if, from the paper from that beautiful tree, they take the pages… and on those pages… the print the bible…”
-Dane Cook
Report Post »Jesus.H.Christ
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:38pmAC – 2 points.
1) If you use Dane Cook for any reason, other than a “who is the worst comedian you can think of right now?” scenario, then your argument becomes invalid.
2) I’m not sure exactly what Mr. Cook’s Botany experience is, but my body may fertilise a tree, but it could never become one, even for the purpose of a scenario based joke that didn’t happen.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:39pmActually in regards to #8 we’ve been living in the end of times since the 1st century. This is the last great age. I can understand #10 where I attend the only time anyone is asked to stand up is if they’ve placed membership. #6 and #7 are definite no-nos because the Bible does not teach these things. We are told what to do when it comes to salvation and saying some prayer or asking Jesus into your heart is not found anywhere.
Report Post »bigpew
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:51pmPeople of no faith can not know the truth. God has hidden the truth from some I can not say why because I am not God. But consider His leviathan. Job 41
Report Post »Annuit Coeptis
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:55pm@JHC – 2 points
1) Lighten up
2) Learn to take a joke without pitching a hissy fit. haha
Report Post »Annuit Coeptis
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 4:00pmAlso, I don’t recall posing an argument. I only posted a silly quote…
Report Post »Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 4:03pm“Christian” speaker, author, writer and pastor ? Hitler claimed He was doing God’s work. Hitler claimed to be a Christian. Obummer claims to be a Christian. Pelosi claims to be a Christian.
This speaker is not a Christian period. His teaching is straight from hell. Several of his comments if quoted correctly and in context are damnable lies.
I would refer to the verse describing false teachers in the end times “many will have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.” The power is Jesus Christ risen from the dead who died for us to pay for our sins. This guy is a false prophet according to all I read in the article. If you don’t study your Bible you will be lead away from the Truth by such satanic teachers.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 4:19pm@JHC
I believe what I believe until something better comes along.
We all make that choice.
The whole point to life (if it has a point) is to learn and grow. I keep testing what I believe in. Somethings are unknowable, thus I exercise faith – to some, that means turning off my brain. When I come to a doctrine I don’t understand, I put it on the back burner. Often times a little patience is required to give the answer time to reveal itself.
I do not expect everyone to see things from my viewpoint. I allow everyone the right to believe as they please. I may be wrong myself and I appreciate others’ patience with me while I try to figure it out.
So far, my faith has given me a better understanding of the world around me. I am a better husband, father and friend because of it.
It’s always a pleasure to talk to someone who tests my views. If my faith cannot stand up to scrutiny, then I would not think it correct. As I said, so far it has, but I try to “question with boldness, even the very existence of God.”
Your educational resume is impressive! Knowledge is a beautiful thing.
Report Post »Annuit Coeptis
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 4:38pmAmen Brother_Ed
I believe the same way. I have tested and tested my faith over the years, and thus far, all my testing has served to strengthen it. I won’t belittle anyone for not believing the same as me, though time to time I may poke a little fun. ;) I welcome any other viewpoints, and admittedly, I may have shared thier opinions at one time or another.
Report Post »FaithfulCitizen
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 4:39pm“every knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord”
but somehow He doesn’t have to be my Lord and savior? How, exactly, does that work?
Sorry – it’s a little too “feel-good” kumbaya for me. Maybe non-believers don’t want to hear it, but there’s a lot that non-believers (and many believers!) need to hear that they don’t like. Oh well!
Report Post »n2motherhood
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 4:56pmNo we do not know the exact time, but He did tell us through scripture, in fact in several scriptures what to watch for. Example Luke 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. In fact if you read Luke 21 and begin with vs 21 and read on, there are a lot of things we are to look for to know that we are close. Matt 24 is another good read to know…While none tell us the time, they do let us know we are close to the second coming
Report Post »Prepare for the 2nd Coming
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 5:01pmBrother, did you hit the nail on the head! Deceiving spirits for sure!
Report Post »MontaraMissileMan
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 5:44pmAnd once again Blaze commentors remind me why the people think I’m kooky for being a conservative and why the left can easily get away with claiming the Christian Right is one step away from being just like Fundamentalist Islam.
Basically the guy is giving his view of worship, the problems he hears from other people and most of you turn towards him and call him evil. I agree with him on almost every point he makes because these are the exact things that drives people away from organized religion.
What makes your interpretation of scripture and the teachings of Christ more valid than his?
Report Post »CHRIS260
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 5:46pmSounds like he might be a JW or prescribe to their theology. I like some of these, but definitely don’t get #7 even JW’s believe Jesus was Lord. Nothing annoys me more then the Kirk Cameron street evangelist questioning though. Definitely respect the fact they are sharing the gospel, but the whole logic is flawed, and makes them look ignorant.
Report Post »CHRIS260
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 5:54pmWell that explains it…He is a member of the Emergent Church and contributor of Huffington Post…Is this a Joke Blaze…
Report Post »alinmatt
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 5:59pmWow! The whole point of his list of ten things not to say is to avoid being an arrogant ass while trying to beat someone in the head with the Bible. If you want to win converts, invest in them first. Then, explain your perspective after getting to know them. Jesus didn’t gain followers with arrogance and legalism, he did it by getting to know others and showing them compassion. People are more open to the rest of your perspective after you’ve earned their trust and respect.
Report Post »With that being said, I’ll read on in the comments to keep witnessing the implosion of Christianity.
crazedbanshee
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:08pm@Jesus – With your argument you imply that if YOU have not experienced it, then it does not exist and for something to exist, for someone else, they must prove to you that it does. No one needs to prove anything to you for it to exist and in fact the existence of God is a reality for me and billions of other people. Do you know every creature, every element? No, you do not. Does this mean element and fauna unknown to you, but daily experienced by others do not exist?
Report Post »The challenge presented to you is to explore other avenues and open your mind. Why? Because many have discovered that God is real, from personal experience, and they would like you to participate in the joy that comes from this knowledge.
Studying religion and religious history is not the correct equation, in and of itself, to know God. The correct equation is to humble yourself before God and realize that human intelligence is nill in comparison. If you want to get out of your box and expand yourself, seek after him through application of scripture not the mere study of it. At first it will seem like complex algorithms that put out the answer 1+1 = 256 (because you applied the equation wrong), but after practice (I am talking years in many cases) you will start to understand the equation and come up with the right answers. Whatever you do with this info does not matter to me. I personally know, yes know, that there is a God. I cannot prove it to you, but God will, if you humble yourself before him
the_zazzy
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:19pmBrother_Ed & JHC,
Report Post »I, too, am a Latter-day Saint (Mormon), and I think Bro Ed has articulated our beliefs perfectly. JHC, unfortunately, we cannot prove the existence of God. To me, though, His existence is proved by all the things we see and use each and every day. The human body, for example, is too perfect to have happened by chance or evolution. The earth and universe is too awesome to have happened by a Big Bang. As one of our church leaders recently said, “You could not get a dictionary as the result of an explosion in a printing shop.” That makes perfect sense. Does it prove God lives, without any doubt? No. But for me, logic outweighs the need for rock solid proof. I have a friend who feels exactly the same way you do…he needs proof of God’s existence. I do not think less of him at all. I actually think the subject of this article has a lot of great points. Sometimes “Christians” are quick to point out others’ faults, which directly contradicts the very teachings they supposedly espouse. I don’t necessarily agree with everything this guy said, but he has some VERY valid points, and it would do all Christians good to listen up and not be so quick to dismiss his reasonings.
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:23pm@ JC…I am not arguing that the burden of proof isn’t on those who claim God exists, but I was trying to see if you understood the issue. If you claimed you knew there was no God that would be an illogical position because you cannot prove a negative existential assertion (as you stated) because you can never say you have examined all evidence. You can reach a logical conlcusion that unicorns do not exist because their is no recorded historical evidence or eyewitness accounts nor any other lines of evidence so that example was fallacious and irrelevant to the beginning of this discussion. Your final comment was also irrelevant as no argument has even been made by me to this point. I would like to know what evidence you have examined objectively to reach the conclusion that God as descrobed in the bible does not exist or is not a logical conclusion given the evidence you have lQQked at. What 3 broad categoreis if you will and then we will explore further if you wish. Having the Master’s degree that you say you should understand what I am looking for. Thanks in advance…
Report Post »CobraBill
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:24pmYou say our spirit and body gets reunited, I am hoping for a better one tell you the truth.
Report Post »This one is getting all worn out!!!!
Drives Like Jehu
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:37pmWOW – Only God can sort which people go to which place, but I’m going out on a limb here and say that as he now stands “Christian” Piatt is obviously very very very very very very inappropriately named.
Report Post »Two Sheds
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 7:20pmSquid, check this out: Corinthians: If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
Spiritual in the afterlife not physical.
Report Post »Occupy_The_Blaze_FORWARD2012
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 7:48pmOr, learn to be less obnoxious like the guy is sayin’. He‘s just sayin’ y’all….LOL…let’s move FORWARD in 2012….
Report Post »Wildape
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 8:25pmSquidvetOhio you are the posterboy for what is wrong with Christians (I bet you are a submariner). Just like your picture of Smeagle, you were a good hobbit that that went insanely south and now you are a monsterous wretch consumed by your “prescious” views.
This writer is spot on and I’m speaking as someone divorced from Christianity. I respect your god, I like Christs teachings, but I cannot stomach most of the self righteous tyrants that fill the pews. There would be no heaven with people like Squid in heaven. Like a turd in a punch bowl I would no longer want to drink from the pitcher.
Want to know what works with people like me? First off, dump the smugness and imperial tone from your voice. Treat those imbeciles like me who are stinking up your “precious” church and presence like equals–at least fake it.. I know that would be difficult for most Fundamentalist Nazis but trust me it is a good start.
Lines that work—”My church is making a food drive for the hungry, would you like to help us?” Then say–thank you. Don’t bless me with your ungodlike lips just say thank you. When you see a new person at church get them to the side and say, “The best thing about this church is Mrs. SquidvetsubmarinerwifeOhio’s coffee. Can I get you a cup.” Then talk about anything that the person brings up. People are looking for fellowship not a life enlistment.
Other lines to avoid–”You haven’t been babtized correctly.“ ”Yeah those fill in the bl
Report Post »db321
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 8:26pmBlaze readers please don’t be mislead. Look at the Author of the Post – the Blaze’s own Billy Hollowell. This guy once did a survey on the Blaze that resulted in 85% of Christians would vote for an atheist. I don’t know why Glenn has this guy publishing Faith Articles for the Blaze, but like Glenn always says – Check it out – do the research.
Don’t be mislead. If you disagree with Billy’s line of BS call him out. Maybe Glen will someday notice that this guy leave little to be desired and he should not be in charge of the Faith section.
If you see another Christian Article that makes your stomach turn, then go to the bottom of the Heading and you will probably see Bill Hollowell’s name. You be the Judge.
Report Post »MontaraMissileMan
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 8:35pm@Wildape: agree with all you said, except for bad mouthing all of us submariners. That’s a low and nasty blow, I‘ve only met one submariner with a mind that closed and he didn’t last long in the fleet. Most of the time you generally see pig-headedness like that in surface fleet personnel (aka Targets).
Report Post »KStret
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 8:37pmJC,
“I don’t pretend to “know” that there isn’t a god. However, when you postulate a theory (in this instance – god), the burden of proof is on your side”
One side believes that God exists and the other believes that God doesn’t exist. Both sides have a burden of proof. What you are saying is that you have no explanatory burden for not believing in X or taking a negative position.The notion that only the positive claim has the burden of proof is a logical fallacy.You do have to explain you own rationale.
“I can‘t prove that there isn’t an orally satisfying unicorn, that flies around the globe giving BJ’s to communists/socialists/Marxists like me.”
You are making a straw-man argument which is another logical fallacy. You are also comparing a unicorn which is physical to God which is non psychical. This is a category error logic fallacy. You are conflating things that there is good evidence that they don’t exist to something that you say there is no evidence for, which is another category error..
“It’s not possible to prove a negative (that god DOESN’T exist), so it’s up to you to prove to me, using evidence, that there definitely is a god.”
Prove to me that married bachelors don’t exist. A married bachelor is self contradictory, so you can prove a negative. Even if you can’t prove it you can still explain your rationale for not believing something.
Report Post »KStret
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 8:39pmJC
“I’m really surprised that people are still using arguments debunked hundreds of years ago.”
I am really surprised that someone who claims that logic and reason is their life’s creed would predicate everything point they made on a logical fallacies. I am really surprised that someone who thinks they are a freethinker would make the exact same points that every youtube atheist activist makes.
Report Post »KStret
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 8:48pmDB,
“This guy once did a survey on the Blaze that resulted in 85% of Christians would vote for an atheist”
If your your choice in this election was between President Obama and Ayn Rand, who would you vote for?
“Maybe Glen will someday notice that this guy leave little to be desired and he should not be in charge of the Faith section.”
Glenn believes that all religion is a essentially good and there is no true religion.
Report Post »Wildape
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 9:04pm@montaramissileman Not all submariners are bad. The only fist fight I ever got in was when some submariner called me a target. I thumped him pretty good too. I understand the spirit but never the idea that anyone who wasn’t a submariner was an enemy. But a lot of submariners would be just as comfortable killing members of their own navy as they would the enemy I guess. Me, I would only put my sights on the enemy navy, not my own. But that is just me. In the navy I served killing your own people was considered gross incompetence and treasonous not to mention a greivious misuse of manhours. Did they pin medals for that in the submarine force?
Actually Squido acts a lot like the real submariners I knew. I met a few that were problem children on the subs and quickly jettisoned to be someone elses problem. I don‘t call them submariners per se but I can see how difficult it is to make bad sailors into good ones if you don’t have any sort of leadership skills. Some of those submariner rejects made great sailors. I respect the job that submariners do but it has been my experience that this is a one way street. Most submariners that I’ve met have no respect for anyone else but themselves and see themselves as the ideal to be modeled. I even had one tell me that to win a war all it would take is a submarine fleet and a SEAL team. He was serious too. Maybe you boys down below can step it up and win this war on terror and show the Army and Marines how it is done
Report Post »Wildape
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 9:16pm@montaramissileman I realize that last post was a tad smug. I respect submariners. I really do. I’ve had a bad history with them is all but I know that they have a dangerous job and they have to have a lot of the ball in order survive in that element. If anyone calls me a target they had better be out of swinging distance is all I’m saying. Just some friendly advice, keep the target bravado confined to a submariner audience and you’ll have a lot more respect.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 9:18pm@ KSTRET…seems with both picked up quite a bit on the logical flaws and fallacies in JC’s statements. Not surprising, most atheists have not really thought their positions through, nor have they studied and investigated any real evidence, instead they parrot things they have heard or read from other atheists. When you call them out in their fallacious arguments they will either run or denigrate you personally (not all but many in my experience). To me this demonstrates they are not in sincere pursuit of the truth, they just have a “God” axe to grind. The most striking thing to me is when they claim to base all their beliefs on facts and logic until of course you begin to unravel their logic and present other evidence for which they do not accept because they refuse to change their presupposition that “there is no god”. I should know since I used to be one until I actually objectively examined the evidence. Thanks ahead.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 9:38pmHey, Chrispian Pfffttt, do the “Father, Son and Holy Heretic” stand for Satan, You and the Foul Spirit inside you?
Report Post »TomSawyer
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 9:39pmChristian Piatt is a friend of Jim Wallis. Do not listen to these men. They are anti-Christ.
Instead remember this:
“Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Jesus did not do what Christian Piatt is suggesting. Jesus said the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Christian Piatt is arguing against Jesus. Do not worry about saying anything Jesus said.
Report Post »Patriot Z
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 9:55pm“Remember Paul said if anyone preached a different gospel than the one handed down, even if it be an angel, let him be condemned….”
better hope not Sleazh.(wow you have a long name). otherwise every practicing Cristian is going to hell. the bible itself as you see it(the one in your house) has been mistranslated and revised for various people over and over again for centuries. So many times in fact , The “bible” as it stands today is pretty much SPAM lunch meat. At this point its as about as ‘holy’ as the ingredients on the back of a pack of smokes. im not actually dengrating it. im saying that if you take that book you have in your hands as infoulable you will be in trouble
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 10:12pm@ PATRIOT….you are absolutely 100% wrong. When evaluating literary works of antiquity there are three lines of evidence: bibliographical, external evidence, and internal evidence. The area that answers your assertion would be the bibliographical line of evidence. Crrently we have over 24,000 manuscript copies and this is more than all other works of antiquity combined. The second in line is Homer’s The Iliad at 643. Of those copies they exhibit an accuracy of greater than 99% leaving only 40 lines in question as to whether or not they were in the original manuscripts. Most of those are contained in the story of the woman caught in adultery and the ending of Mark which both are clearly marked as such in modern bibles. The Iliad has over 700 lines in question. Most honest scholars do not question any longer that we have accurate copies of the original manuscripts. Each archeological discovery of earlier manuscripts (Dead Sea scrolls) have only served to strengthen the evidence not weaken it. If you were to discredit the bible along your line of reasoning you would have to, in oder to remain intellectually honest and logical, reject all works of antiquity as unreliable and inaccurate because the evidence for the accuracy of the bible is overwhelming in regaurd to its reflection of the original manuscripts. Please provide your counter argument with lines of evidence and reasoning. You will find my information is absolutely dead on accurate. Thank you in advance…
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 10:22pm@ PATRIOT….I hope you don’t take my enthusiasm as arrogance when stating you were wrong…Not meant that way. Thanks again.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 10:32pm@WILDAPE
SquidvetOhio you are the posterboy for what is wrong with Christians… This writer is spot on and I’m speaking as someone divorced from Christianity.
——-
And you are the posterboy for all the wussies who lack true grit, and for whom this book was written. Feel good now?
=> “I respect your god, I like Christs teachings, but I cannot stomach most of the self righteous tyrants that fill the pews.”
—
God Almighty doesn’t need or want your respect. He COMMANDS all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). He does desire your love, but He loved you before you decided to divorce HIM because of OTHERS, and will never stop loving you even if you are stupid enough to send yourself to hell — where all you will experience up close and personal are demon turds.
Anyone who “neglects so great a salvation” (Heb. 2:3) because of what other people say or do is very, very stupid. But judging by your screen name, I think the bottom line is you prefer the wild ape to the godly man.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:25pmIt is true that evangelical types get wrapped up into the christian culture and the message to unbelievers doesnt make much sense. You have to talk in simple terms that are easy to understand – without all the inside bible knowledge.
It‘s like talking about state’s rights to someone who never read the constitution…..
Report Post »MontaraMissileMan
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:28pm@Wildape
The “target” thing is only a joke and should never be seen as anything but that. If you take offense or think of it as anything else your skin is too thin and you wouldn’t have made it as one of us.
The “submariners” that you’ve met are the wash outs, we break them and kick them to the surface fleet because they don’t understand teamwork or have the work ethic that you need to have in order to survive on a submarine. Whenever I heard a surface sailor complain about how hard I had it I laughed in their face. You never saw the 100+ hour work weeks, the days or weeks without sleep, the port and starboard, port and starboard watch bills, the zero tolerance for errors, the months without seeing the sun, the months without seeing even an email from a loved one.
On a sub you have to look at the person next to you and know, with out a doubt that you can trust them to save your rear from the fire. There’s no room for the garbage behavior you see in the surface fleet. We sent you our rejects because they couldn’t understand the need to be more than just a guy there to collect a paycheck. When they get there the work load is so light compared to what a sub sees that they can’t help but excel.
It should tell you something about what caliber of people subs actually have when our rejects excel compared to what the surface gets fresh.
I know we‘re cocky but there’s a damn good reason for it. When’s the last time you dealt with a nuclear arsenal as enli
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:33pm@SLEAZYHIPPOS ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
In all honesty, no sarcasm or the like intended, you are truly a scholar and a gentleman.
Report Post »MontaraMissileMan
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:45pm@Wildape
A submariner cannot abide stupidity, which is why so many are Conservative or Libertarian. There is a level of responsibility required to be one, no one does your work for you and they expect you to be an adult about things. No one is going to hold your hand.
Not that everyone in it is a saint, I’ve known a few D-Bags in my time who don’t deserve their rank, but even when I was a 3rd I had the ability and duty to tell someone off if they were wrong or effed up as long as I had my fish. Dropping rank on someone was looked down upon, it was nothing but skill and knowledge that truly determined our roles.
Anyways, that’s just me wanting to rant/troll a little because as a submariner I like to push people’s buttons to see how much they can take so that I can vette them and see how much they can be trusted in an extreme situation. Plus, sarcasm, cynicism, and humor are the best way we bubble heads
Still love ya fellow sailor! Sipping mai tais on a ship sure beats catching bullets for a living =P
I just was a little irritated that you insulted the sub community by comparing us all to SquidVet, not everyone is like that.
Report Post »MontaraMissileMan
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:54pm@SleazyHippo
Have you looked at a direct translation of Hebrew to English of the Old Testament? It will change your views on that point.
Plus add in the fact that a dying emperor whose empire was falling apart created a council to determine what was canonical to the New testament of the Bible 400 years after the death of Christ and that’s what we base the Christian faith on, I wouldn’t put too much faith into that.
Report Post »caveman74
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 1:03am#1 he allows all for the good of those who love him
Report Post »I accepted Jesus as my savior and was baptised, so yah..I know where I am going, the book of john says I have a guarantee in god. You would think a pastor would know the book of john
I believe in heaven so if i dont tell people their loved ones are in a better place then what am I saying
we are called into the mission field
we are called to bring people to the lords word
have you asked him into your heart and do you accept him…the only way to heaven is through Jesus
he died for your sins…if you remove that from the conversation then you are teaching old testament…better make sure you are practicing the 10 commandments and while your at it break out the torra. What is this guy teaching his congregation
Nehemiah6.3
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 1:26amHe sounds like an Atheist to me.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 1:59am@ n2motherhood Actually if you read Luke 21 more closely you’ll see what Jesus is talking about. In Mark’s account (Chapter 13) we read that Jesus is talking to Peter, Andrew, James, and John. They’re talking about the temple and Jesus tells them about the destruction of it. Then in Luke’s account Jesus is warning these 4 that they themselves will be delivered to kings and to the synagogues. Then as you read on to verse 20 Jesus starts talking about the destruction of Jerusalem which happened in AD 70. How do I know these verses pertain to this event? Because when Christ comes again nobody is going to be able to flee to the mountains and it won’t matter if a woman is pregnant or not. So it’s important to note that all these signs were not for the end of times this was for that time period so those who were in Jerusalem at that time would know to flee. Those who saw the signs fled to Pella and were saved from Jerusalem’s destruction.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:16am@ MONTAR….In fact I have and you are incorrect about the council. The difficulty you imply in the English translation exists because many Hebrew words and concepts do not have a truly equal counterpart in the English language so the best that can be done is to come as close to the original meaning/concept as possile. However, this does NOT and I repeat does NOT change any foundational doctrinal belief within Christianity.
Report Post »Secondly, Your assertion that a council around 400 AD decided what was canoniacal is inaccurate. This is a distorted view. Long before the councils were convened Christians, especially local church elders were constantly collecting, evaluating, and deciding which of the many writings of their day carried the authority of the apostles. The content of the canon was actually determined by early church usage, not by authoritarian pronouncement. I assume you meant the Synod of Hippo which convened in 393. Listed 27 books to solidify, not pronounce their canonicity. These were already viewed as the word by the early chirstian church, but this made it formal to help prevent frauds from becoming introduced. The early church fathers that accpeted these books were often 1st generation disciples taught by the apostles themsleves.
Finally, if your arument was supported by the evidence then you have a huge coincidence on your hands as very early manuscripts confirm that these books were read and viewed as authoritative scripture. Thank you for your comme
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:17am@ BROTHER ED…..thank you for your kind and encouraging words! If I am anything, I am what I am because of Jesus Christ. God Bless!!!
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:48am@ MONTAR….there were several tests used by the council for inclusion, they were as follows: Is it authoritative, Is it prophetic, is it authentic, is it dynamic (life transforming power of God), was it received collected read and used by the early church fathers. Even Peter recognized Paul’s writings as scripture in 2 PE 3:16. The purpose for convening the council was over the increasing concern of fraudulent and pseudonymous works becoming more prevelant. These often contained heretical teachings that stryaed from the apostles and early church teachings/doctrines so the council set out to solidify what the accpeted cannon already was to prevent corruption. If this had not been done imagine the argument you would possess against the authenticity of the NT being the word of God as many false and heretical books could have become canonized and proven false. So far not one NT book has been proven inaccurate or in contradiction with the rest of scripture. The books hotly debated at the council of Hippo were Hebrews, James, 2 and 3 John, 2 Peter, Jude and Revelation. However, the intense debate and very close scrutiny made their inclusion undeniable and unanimous. Thank you ahead…..
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:08amA little late to the conversation, but…
Only one of his points I really disagree with it number 7. And I don’t disagree in that I think we should use the phrase; I disagree with his reasoning with why we shouldn’t. He says it‘s because the Bible doesn’t mention Jesus as Lord and Savior. Except… it does. Several times. The only thing you might be able to argue is that it never specifically says “This dude, Jesus, is the Savior,“ although it does call both God and the Christ ”Savior” (so moot point).
I would contend we should drop the phrase because it boils down to “Obey Jesus because you must,” as opposed to the idea of free will: “Obey Jesus because you should.”
As for his other points, some of them I find are portrayed abrasively, but I agree with most of them. We should treat people as -people- first, not potential souls for harvesting. We should respect their views and present (but not force) ours to them. In the same way I wouldn’t want an atheist coming up to me and saying “Isn’t it silly to believe in an invisible, all-powerful floating guy in the sky?” would be offensive, saying to an atheist “Isn‘t it tough luck that you’re going to burn in hell?” is just as offensive.
It’s also presumptuous. As the author said: it’s all faith. Saying FOR A FACT that someone will go to hell, or everything is for a reason, or a deceased friend is in a better place, is a lie. We believe – we don’t know. Author got that right.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:08am@ MONTAR…one of the OT examples I can give you is the commandment typically translated, “Thou shalt not kill”. The more accurate translation when examining the original language should probably be “Thou shalt not murder”. The reasoning for this is A) the original language suggest this meaning in most instances and B) later on in Exodus 22:2. God states that if a thief break in, in the middle of the night and the owner of the house spills his blood, he is not guilty of worngdoing. This is an endorsement of self-defense and God has essentially interpreted his own word when all is taken in context. The NKJB and most newer translations have made the correction to the more accurate concept of murder. Thank you….
Report Post »HappyStretchedThin
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:26am@JHC,
Report Post »Kstret and Sleazy have pointed out some serious logical errors in your thought process. Please allow me to bring up two others in as helpful a way as I can muster. For all your education on the subject, you seem to have missed the concept on: 1. the scientific method; 2. faith.
1. In terms you’ll understand: the “theory” that (a certain Christian conception of a benevolent) God exists takes many things into evidence that your competing theory doesn’t like to allow. But calling it non-admissible evidence is just a word game. The fact is still that the “theory” that God exists PREDICTS certain phenomena that always occur, and thus has perfect explanatory power, and is also FULLY supported by EVERYTHING it claims as evidence. For example, you‘ll say that the regular orbit of planets is not evidence of God’s existence, but if the “theory” of God’s existence predicts exactly that, and it’s therefore evidence despite your wish to throw it out.
2. Faith isn’t irrational or untestable. In fact it’s a principle of motivation, a “hypothesis” in your terms you’ll understand, which BEGS to be tested rationally. Evidence may be subjective, but so is all experience, and this shouldn’t be a deterrent to drawing qualitative conclusions to feed into a process of theorization. Read Gal 5:22, then choose a Christ-like attribute, act like it’s true, and see what changes in your life. You’ll gain testimony like we all do.
HappyStretchedThin
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:40amThis comment thread is interesting. It shows how the diversity of Christian belief systems variously define each other out of Christianity in many respects. It‘s obvious that most of the reading of Piatt’s 10 points was done in an adversarial mode, each looking to find what’s wrong with it, rather than read it first for what Piatt was really addressing, Doing so takes a lot of the controversy out of it, and offers common ground.
Report Post »May I suggest judgment take a back seat to objectively seeing what you CAN get out of a study topic first. By all means, re-engage judgment when you’ve milked all you can out of a text, but reading first through a belief filter doesn’t help you learn anything.
So here’s my take:
1. Of COURSE everything happens for a reason. Piatt‘s not suggesting it doesn’t, just that we should be careful helping people who come through trials. Let THEM come to realize the purpose in their suffering is Piatt’s point. I disagree with him on this: the greatest two comforts I can get from tragedy is knowing it’s temporary, and not wasted.
2. If God is the sole judge, then Piatt’s technically correct. The fish on the hook is “caught”, but it‘s also just a fish story until it’s in the boat, right? Christians can know they’ve fulfilled the criteria for being saved, but that‘s knowledge they’re on the hook, being in the boat won’t come until judgment day. And anyway, Piatt’s just inviting us to share more than saved/not-saved.
Cont…
THERAPTURCOMES
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:45amHe is EMERGENT CHURCH full bore and wont he be surprised when the rapture happens and he realizes all the junk that has come out of his mouth is untrue
Report Post »dejones36
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:49amBeing a ‘Non-Christian’…Heck, a ‘Non-anyreligion’, I find this piece, along with the comments, shall we say…Amusing! :)
Report Post »HappyStretchedThin
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:52amMy take cont…
Report Post »3. Piatt’s overboard here: Christians speak with authority not to steal judgment from God, but to AGREE with Him that the next life comes with rest from physical woes (of course Piatt’s main point is still right that judgment belongs to God alone, and that no one of us are placed well enough to know if a spirit will be suffering torments of soul or peaceful anticipation of rewards in wait for the resurrection and judgment)
4. Christians DO have something everyone needs, and it’s wonderful for them to want to share it. The most effective way to do that does NOT often start with the assumption that the other person WANTS a need filled. However, Piatt is assuming all sharing is agenda-driven, rather than merely, well, SHARING. Let the Spirit guide on how best to approach people is my recommendation.
5. Piatt’s overreaching as he has on most of these so far. He doesn‘t recognize how tight friendships can bond BECAUSE one shares one’s faith, an invitation to church, etc. But he’s also asking for an important corrective for those who need the attitude adjustment: when you’ve done the work to make a person a FRIEND, the FRIEND is more likely to ACCEPT the gift you’re sharing than the random person–show how much you care before you show how much you know isn’t a bad guideline.
6. Jesus DOES come into hearts, and it’s not MERELY emotional when He does so, but perhaps it IS better to think about how we phrase things so they don’t become cliche.
Cont…
HappyStretchedThin
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:02amMy take cont…
Report Post »7. I have no idea where Piatt is pulling this from. It most certainly IS in the bible, and “lordship” is only antiquated if you’ve limited the concept to feudalism. We DO need to turn our lives over to the Lord like stewards, and this concept is abundantly attested in Scripture.
8. Just because Christians from the earliest times also thought the end-times were near should not dissuade anyone from keeping an eye on what in current events might be fulfilling end-times prophecy. Knowing its coming soon has no downside anyway, NOT, as Piatt argues, so we can feel SELF-righteous, but so that we won‘t be AFRAID because we’ve prepared.
9. OK, Piatt may have a point that when dealing with atheists, the idea of an atoning sacrifice for sin isn’t very compelling, but for anyone else to whom the concepts of sin, eternal consequences for sin, and mercy are obvious, stating that Jesus was sacrificed for sin shouldn’t inspire any nightmares for anyone. Even children. Besides, I don’t know a single Christian missionary of any confession who begins with that-instead they begin with we’re all sinners and NEED a way out.
10. Sure we should all get more personal with visitors, but recognizing them so we can THEN make that more personal step isn’t out of line. Those put off by standing up, in my experience, get over it pretty quick when they get invited to dinner.
Piatt calls cliches what most Christians call sincerity. It’s his own uncharitable reading.
vidyohs
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:10amSLEAZYHIPPOS ILLEGITMATE OFFSPRING
“Why do you call me Lord and not do what I say —-Jesus ”
If you read that line and believe it is Jesus saying he is lord, confirming he is lord, or claiming he is lord, then truly you need to cease touching your keyboard because you are a product of that crappy education offered by federally controlled schools. in other words, illiterate, zero reading comprehension.
All Jesus did in that sentence was show his listeners the paradox of their own making, he made no claim to anything except being sharp enough to hang them on the rope of their own making.
“Why do YOU call me lord, and not do as I say?”
Report Post »Brandon1121
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:13amAlso concerning #8.
First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires, (2 Peter 3:3 HCSB)
Report Post »vidyohs
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:27amSQUIDVETOHIO
“42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.”
And, exactly what in that which Mr. Piatt said contradict? What? Your quote isn‘t even a weak argument against Piatt’s #8.
Though I am firmly on the same side of the left-right rift as the participants here at the Blaze, I have to say I am ashamed of how poorly the general run of the mill participant reads and comprehends, on all topics, not just religion. Fortunately the general run of the mill looney lefty reads and comprehends just as poorly.
Report Post »THERAPTURCOMES
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 11:06amjesus.h.christ
Say what you have said after the rapture happens right in front of your very eyes. I did a video on YouTube titled
‘Make your own AFTER RAPTURE PACKETS’
In this video is information that you will need once you see the rapture take place.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 11:07am@ VIDYOHS….you are in complete error as the rest of scripture should always interpret each other. That is one of the basic tenants of good hermeneutics. Your position is illogical because it would swim against the tide of the rest of scripture and what was taught and understood by the apostles who walked with Jesus for 3 years. Your is a presupposition with no logical reasoning or evidence for its conclusion not to mention very very poor hermeneutics…. Eevryone can read for themselves and see who is correct and who is in error. I stand on my argument. BTW you also committed another logical fallacy ad hominem implying that my intelligence is inferior to yours.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 11:19am@ VIDYOH….also your illogical argument does not rest on the understanding that the “hook” you claim Jesus was setting was the fact the he questioned why they called him Lord but did not do what he taught or commanded. The l0ogical conclusion is that they were to do what He commanded and taught becuase they were in fact accurate that he was the Lord. This stands in compelete agreement with other testimony from Jesus and the rest of scripture…..Thanks in advance.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 11:20am@VIDYOHS
Chrispian Pfffttt: “People tried to elevate Jesus to the status of Lord, but he rejected it.” FALSE.
“Ye call me, The Teacher and The Lord, and ye say well, for I am.” (John 13:13, Young’s Literal Translation).
It’s everywhere, but is that instance literal enough for you?
My absolute favorite instance where Jesus proclaimed his Lordship is in Matthew. It unveils an OT reference to Him, but it may be difficult to grasp if you are not a Christian. Jesus confronted the Pharisees and they understood EXACTLY what He was saying, thus their claim to Pilate that Jesus made himself to be God:
==> “While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said to Him, “The Son of David.” He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: ‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Report Post »“Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”’? If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.”
kryptonite
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 11:31am@MONTARAMISSILEMAN
… a dying emperor whose empire was falling apart created a council to determine what was canonical to the New testament of the Bible 400 years after the death of Christ …
—
Hogwash. The APOSTLES determined the NT canon. A hotshot submariner would choose his man carefully if he had something noteworthy to pass on (or at least that’s what your comments convey), so what makes you think Jesus would be so stupid as to let his Gospel of Truth sit idle for 400 years and then fall into the hands of worldly men? Oh the arrogance of fools.
As the inspired Word of God, the NT was solemnly entrusted to Jesus’ top men. The Church (true followers) is built “on the foundation of the apostles and prophets” (Eph. 2:20; see also Rev. 21:14). Isaiah, who was a Messianic OT prophet foretells this: “Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples” (Isa 8:16). I especially like the Jewish version: “Wrap up this docuument, and confine its teaching to those I have instructed.” Notice the word “confine.”
http://www.cogwriter.com/canon.htm
http://godsbreath.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/nt-formation-bible/
So “the people” think you’re a kook for being conservative? Ah, you mean YOUR FRIENDS! And the only reason they get away with claiming the “Christian Right” — it used to be the Religious Right until your friends fell in love with Muslims — is one step away from Islamism, is because you think just like them.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 12:00pmEveryone that has a problem with #7 are basing their entire argument on a piss poor english translation called the King James Bible. Until you can read, write, and speak Koine Greek you‘re not going to know what the New Testament actually says as I’m sure “lord” wasn’t even a word back then. And if you’re reading in Koine Greek, you’re not properly reading the Old Testament because yet again, you’re likely reading a poor translation of Hebrew. You sheeple aren’t worshiping a god. You’re just pile diving into the most convoluted game of telephone ever concocted and picking and choosing whatever parts that allow you to push other simple minded people around with your imaginary sky bully. Whatever fills that empty cavity in your head, I don’t care. Just remember you and your imagination don’t own the rest of us.
@alinmatt
Report Post »I’m about to bust open a bag of popcorn after this.
kryptonite
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 12:11pm@LOCKED
Only one of his points I really disagree with it number 7. And I don’t disagree in that I think we should use the phrase; I disagree with his reasoning with why we shouldn’t.
—
You hit the nail on the head. Notice it gets gradually bad (progressivism-ha!). Second, even when he has a point, the SPIRIT (i.e., why he is saying it) is wrong. Same old trick the devil played on Eve.
# 9 is also heretical. In fact 7 and 9 go together. You can’t be saved unless you have been convicted of sin, and the reason Jesus can save us is that He died for our sins.
Did you visit his website? He mocks the triune nature of God, specifically the Holy Spirit.
Report Post »the_zazzy
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 12:23pm@HAPPYSTRETCHEDTHIN:
Report Post »This is the point I was trying to make, but you did a way better job than I did. Sometimes, as Christians, we do have a tendency to be overbearing about our beliefs, and for good reason. We want to share our knowledge with others and have them experience the same joy we do. In so doing, we can sometimes come of as “holier than thou” to others. I think many of the points he was trying to make are just to throttle back and be a good example to others. Living your religion each day, in every situation, carries more weight than condemning others for not living your beliefs. Christ did not cram himself into everyone’s face…he simply lived an exemplary life and encouraged others to follow Him by serving them. Like I said, I don’t agree 100% with Piatt, but if people carefully read what he is saying, they could gain something from it. God bless!!
StanO360
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 2:19pm. . . and yet JESUS.H.CHRIST doesn’t live this life as if he is just a meaningless animal. Why would someone that believes live is meaningless and without value spend so much time at a web site devoted to news about values?
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 2:20pm@ZAZZY
Christ did not cram himself into everyone’s face…he simply lived an exemplary life and encouraged others to follow Him by serving them.
——
Absolutely not, Zazzy. That is so religious and patently untrue, it does not proceed from God. While it is true that Jesus preached about heaven and the kingdom of heaven far more than on any other subject, the one other subject on which he preached extensively was sin/sinfulness. Moreover Jesus made some pretty harsh references to hell (~11x), Hades (3x), outer darkness (3), everlasting fire (2), devil’s influence on people (4), demons’ influence on people (4), the wicked/wickedness (10), those who perish (4) and those who do not enter heaven (4), for a total of ~ 45x (but remember only a small portion of his ministry is recorded).
So He did openly judge and condemn those who deserved it. So much so, that people tried to KILL him more than once. You are confusing Jesus with Ghandi. Jesus was a fiery preacher and was not afraid to confront evil. Even his family was offended in him. Christ was and will always be authoritative, not to be confused with authoritarian.
Report Post »the_zazzy
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 2:52pm@Kryptonite
Report Post »I did not claim that it “proceeded from God.” It proceeded from me and my belief that Jesus taught by example, as well as some harsh sermons and lessons at times, no doubt. Please abscond from putting words into my mouth. I am impressed with your knowledge of the Bible and of the Lord’s teachings. You are indeed, well-versed.
To your other point about Him condemning those who deserved it, yes He did…I agree. He will be their judge…you and I will not. However, it was usually to the hypocritical Sadducees and Pharisees, rather than every day people who may not have bought into what He was teaching. These are the same people that “tried to KILL him more than once.” To my point about Him forgiving and preaching tolerance, why did He not condemn the Roman soldiers who mocked Him, beat Him, and eventually killed Him? Don’t you think they “deserved it.” To my point, He lived what He taught. No, He is not Ghandi…again, I agree. Ghandi is not the Son of God. I do not believe Him to be “fiery,” forceful, harsh, critical, or beligerant. I believe He is influential and the ultimate example of how He wants us to live. But, I do respect your view of Him.
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:05pm@ PONTIAC…while I understand your concern for accuracy you can be assured that Jesus was understood to be the Lord God by his disciples. While the term lord can have several conotations we must lQQk at the context and the actual language used within that contex. When Doubting Thomas placed his fingers in the wounds of Christ he fell to his knees and proclaimed my Lord and my God and Jesus did not correct him. Now then when he coupled the phrase My God and Lord together he was indicating his divinity. Hence the title for Jesus, Lord of lords and King of kings. Hope this helps clear up your confusion, but we most definitely can know the intention of the original language.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:34pm@ Pontiac…we can also use the teaching of Christ himself when he identified himself with Jehovah by applying the title “I am” to himself with the greek words “ego eimi” in John 8:58. The response of the religious jews makes it clear that they understood him to be referring to himself as God Jehovah, as known in the OT, because they were very angry at this idea (much like you) and charged him with blasphemy. My guess you object to the Lordship of Jesus because you are a Jehovah’s witness. Let me know if I am wrong. Nonetheless, you are completely incorrect in your comments not to mention your logic and hermeneutics. Thank you.
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:34pmWhat SLEAZYHIPPOs said.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:47pm@ PONTIAC and VIDYHO……my assumption is you both are Jehovah’s Witnesses and this would then explain the comments you have both shared. You struggle because you rely on a faulty translation of the bible produced and endorsed by the watchtower society. It is full of inaccuracies and errors. I hope you don’t take this as offensive it is merely an objective conclusion when their tranlsation is compared to the original language. If it was accurate then I would rely on it to form my opinions, however, it is significantly flawed by any objective standard of appropraite translation methodology. No personal attacks just making an objective argument to provide context to your previous comments. Thank you….
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:32pm@ PONTIAC…after reading your comment again, I do not believe you are a JW but merely an unbeliever. I do however believe VIDYOH is of the JW persuasion…
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 7:40pmYo SleazyH I O:
I save 5 minutes by not typing your full name and just wasted them by exlaining … you are correct in your assumptions about pontiac … good luck. I have tried ( maybe poorly) … he doesn’t appreciate me much for it. This thread is interesting and mostly civil and I have been appreciating your posts elsewhere. I was glad to see your correction of the history of the compliation of scripture ( the 400 years after). Learning takes time and effort … time and effort makes for learning, applying that learning makes an eternity.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:10pm@ZAZZY
Jesus called the P & S hypocrites, but he also spoke strong words to the Jews/crowds (Matt. 11:20-24). Those crowds openly tried to kill him (Matt. 26: 3-5; John 7: 19-20), while the chief priests and scribes plotted in secret (Lk. 4:28-9). See also John 8:22-59, where Jesus calls the Jews “of your father the devil” and “liars,” and the Jews, in turn, try to stone Him. It was the same crowds who cried “Crucify him! His blood be on us and on our children!” (Boy did they curse themselves and their families with that one).
Jesus would have come across as belligerent by our modern PC standards. In his day, however, God had raised men like Elijah, so Jesus was not viewed as “ungodly” because he was impassioned (better?).
Here’s my personal take on why the Lord did not condemn the Roman soldiers: The crucifixion was the hour of darkness upon Planet Earth, and all those who participated in the act — Jews and gentiles alike — were tools of Satan and every demon in hell. It was the moment of man’s redemption, when propitiation was made for our sins. So Jesus did not defend himself or condemn anyone. He was the Lamb of God taking the sin of the world upon Him. One cannot be lamb and lion at the same time, don’t you agree? If ever God required that I give my life for Him, I would not resist. Otherwise, “the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men do take it by force (Matt. 11:12).” (CONT.)
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:16pm@ZAZZY (CONT.)
It took me literally years to understand that verse. None of the interpretations I read made sense, and that’s because people had been — and many still are — so deceived by passive Christianity that they had become as ineffectual as the Israelites: “…those who afflict you, who have said to you, ‘Lie down, that we may walk over you.’ And you have laid your body like the ground, and as the street for those who walk over.”(Isa. 51:23).
Now more than ever Christians across the nation need to wake up and hear the voice of the Shepherd. The Lamb was slain, but the risen Christ is the Lion of Judah, “the Lord mighty in battle,” at whose feet John fell like a dead man because of His unsurpassed glory and might.
~120,000 people die every day in the world. Most of them go to hell. What will our excuse be, that we thought Chrispy was right about not stepping on anyone’s toes? Here’s an AWESOME teaching on Matt. 11:12 by a Jewish believer. You can’t beat their ability to connect the Old and the New. Hope you read it; I promise you will be blessed. :)
Report Post »http://www.seedofabraham.net/kingdomv.html
KStret
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:54pmSleazy,
“I should know since I used to be one until I actually objectively examined the evidence. Thanks ahead.”
Really? I have never actually had a conversation with an atheist where they were open minded. What was it that changed your mind?
“seems with both picked up quite a bit on the logical flaws and fallacies in JC’s statements……..the most striking thing to me is when they claim to base all their beliefs on facts and logic until of course you begin to unravel their logic ”
This is what I find so bizarre. After they give you all their catch phrase bumper sticker slogan arguments and you challenge their poor reasoning and logic, they disappear and a day later then they are ridiculing Christians on another message board. If they value logic and reason so much, you would think that they might have a moment of introspection and rethink their positions rather than go back to proclaiming how dumb Christians are and how smart they are.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:57pmYo Kryptonight:
How goes it … hope you don’t mind if I comment on the verse you speak of … I quickly read the link …my prior understanding from the Lord would be .. that He cleared the way and made it possible. We who seek Him have an enemy, and we must fight that enemy till we die. we fight for ourselves and others ( princes and principalities in dark places). All the glory will go to God, but we must fight!
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:24pm@ 4TRUTH2ALL…..Thank you so much for your kind words, but all glory to the Lord. I have nothing except that which I have been given. Sorry for my long screen name. There is an inside story to it, but ta long time ago there used to be a liberal poster on here who went by the name SLEAZYHIPPO. We always debated everything and I teased her one time and said I must be her illegitimate offspring since we disagreed on everything and the name stuck haha. Thanks again for your encouragement !
@ KSTRET….really it was a combination of things. Realizing that there is a certain commonality to all men in all times and cultures, namely that there was a deep inherent understanding of morality and knowing that there MUST be a moral absolute. That means there must be a moral law giver. When an OBJECTIVE (that is the key, sincerity, no prejudice) examination of the evidence (not what atheists claim or what they argue, but a true lQQking into things myself) it became clear and evident that even when I wanted to do good evil was right there with me. The evidence was overwhelming. I also was given the blessing of being able to see me for who I was in my heart and this allowed me to realy humble myself and understand who I had been before God and that I was powerless in myself to change that proud, self-loving person’s heart. God reaching down to me! It made so much sense. All other religions are you being the best you, you can be to hopefully please some version of God….c
Report Post »do_it_all_again
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:26pmIf you visit his website, you can see he is very popular with the atheists, unbelievers, and homosexuals,
Report Post »that alone should tell you something, and if you read anything he writes you can tell it is inspired but the spirit of anti-christ.
He does not know his Bible very well, just enough to twist it around, just like satan does.
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:37pm@ KSTRET….But Christianity offered somehting that nothing else did…. GRACE….Then when one begins to actually study the word and sees contained within the OT stories everywhere the bigger picture of Jesus dying and redeeming his people form their sin. From the story of Adam and Eve (Adam representing Christ being put to sleep (crucifixion of Christ) and Eve (the church) being taken from His rib, all by the purpose of the Father, creating a people unto himself just like Eve was to Adam), to the story of Noah (The ark of safety representing Christ and the waters representing the judgment of God, only in Christ is there safety from the judgement against sin) even to Sampson sleeping with a prostitute ( representing the real STRONG MAN Jesus who was willing to become intimate spiritually with a spiritual prostitute, humanity. In that story Sampson awakes in the night to escape his enemies(Jesus resurrection defeating Satan) ripping the door frames off its hinges and carries it the up the hill on his shoulders (picture of the cross upon Jesus) the very hill Jesus would later be crucified on. It is too incredible to be coincidence. Literally every story in the OT somehow reflects the truth of Jesus and the cross, redemption and ressurection. This brought me to the point of knowing this word came from an almighty, all-loving, all-knowing God who gave himself for his enemy—-ME…God truly does lead us into repentance with his kindness. Anyway that is my story. Thanks…
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on July 13, 2012 at 1:28am@4THRUTH2ALL
Hey, TRUTH. Hadn’t seen you here for a while. Really glad you read the link. Yes, I agree we MUST fight, both to seize what belongs to God (like the Israelites did when they fought for the land God had already promised them), and to “undo the works of the devil” until Jesus returns for his Church.
Lately, I’ve been hearing different prophets, proven men of God, say the same thing. They all seem to agree that God is entering into judgment with America. As you well know, once we fall, so will the rest of the free world. We will have to fight for souls even as we fight for our country, because the two go hand in hand. There’s a great final harvest coming, despite satanic mouthpieces like Chrispy Pfftt, who make a mockery of the work of the Holy Spirit.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on July 13, 2012 at 2:38am@KSTRET
After they give you all their catch phrase bumper sticker slogan arguments and you challenge their poor reasoning and logic, they disappear and a day later then they are ridiculing Christians on another message board.
——-
Yup, that’s their MO. To that scorpion “tolerance” is always one-sided. He’ll sting you even if you give him the proverbial ride across the river on your back.
The Bible says to be ready to preach the Word in season and out of season (2 Tim. 4:2). But for the anti-God crowd it’s always “shut up season” if you’re a Christian — and ever since Hussein took over it’s “shut up you terrorist” season. John the Baptist got his head chopped off because he told Herod it was unlawful for him to have his brother’s wife. I’m not advocating rash actions or statements, but we need to grow a pair and get bold. They spew nothing but BS, so why can’t we speak the truth?
Report Post »sbenard
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:28pmI walk away from this list wondering if this guy is an anti-Christ, rather than a Christian!
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:40pmIt would not be illogical to at least wonder given those comments…
Report Post »HorseCrazy
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:32pmI am left feeling like you…is he just wanting attention has he ever read his bible? what is the matter with these “christians” who decide they just want to be provacative and new or interesting instead of actually following their faith. way to not know what you are taking about mr top 10 list and way to try and divide the Christians walking among you. maybe he should be reading up on about trying to divide the church and the faith body which we are all members of.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:01pmI think it’s always funny to see Christians talk of other Christians as not being a “true Christian.”
Report Post »undercover
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:03pm#7 In the New Testament Christ is called “Lord Jesus” 118 times – He is LORD!
Report Post »Dave
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:38pm@MODERATIONISBEST: well if they don‘t meet the requirements of being a Christian then i guess they aren’t a true Christian. or are they Christians just because they say “im a Christian.”? if yes then since i want to be part of the “hip croud” i am now an atheist. i still believe there is a God but since i am calling myself an atheist i must therefor be an atheist.
Report Post »Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 4:07pmYip. According to my Bible this guy is an anti christ. Another false prophet from hell teaching satans lies. If folks would read their Bible the lies can be easily discerned. His teaching about Jesus Christs work on the cross paying for our sins is all I needed to read to know he is a total false prophet on his way to hell and trying to take many with him.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:03pm@DAVE
You obviously don’t get the absurdity of it.
Atheism is the rejection of the notion of a God, therefore you can’t follow a God and be an Atheist.
However; you can be a Christian, but differ with other Christians on
Evolution
Rapture
Teachings
It’s why there are
Catholics, Methodists, Protestants, Lutherans, Calvinists
Didn‘t Rick Santorum recently say that Protestants weren’t Christians anymore?
Protestants?!
Report Post »crazedbanshee
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:48pm@moderationisbest – you forgot to put Mormons in there with your list. May as well have more examples to prove your point.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:28pm@CRAZEDBANSHEE
I’m an atheist but even I view Mormonism as a hijacking of Christianity.
I also view Christianity, Islam and Mormonism as a hijacking of Judaism.
I view Judaism as a religion that took a “buffet style” approach to the common beliefs that were held in that time and used it to fit a story and belief system that suited them.
Report Post »Max jones
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:50pmthere are ‘Christians’ and then there are ‘disciples’ of Christ. It is a lot more difficult to be a disciple, as this implies and requires discipline. Discipline requires effort and effort is not easy enough for most Christians. “Once saved always saved” comes with a disclaimer. Undisciplined faith fails, and fails miserably, every time.
Report Post »THERAPTURCOMES
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:51am@MODERATION
There is only one true church and Mormonism, is not Christian nor Catholicism, SDA, JW or any of the others like the EMERGENT church that are cultist at best.
A person cannot believe in evolution and claim to be Christian by any means. this is a part of the end times apostasy movement
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 12:09pmThe only problem is.
Evolution isn’t a belief.
I can’t “believe” in something that is scientific, testable and potentially falsifiable.
Now you can feel free to say that based on the evidence presented, you don’t find it sufficient enough to claim that evolution is fact, but to say “I don’t believe in evolution” is nonsense.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:25pm@ Moderation…actually, not to be argumentative, evolution is a belief. As all people possesss the exact same evidence and may arrive at different conclusions to explain that evidence. Evolution is simply an explanation (theory) of the evidence that exists. Those who hold to the theory of evolution are placing confidence in the soundness and reasonableness of that theory (explanation) to explain the evidence. If different evidence is made available then someone might espouse a different theory or at least a modified one (which has happened many times) and if convinced that theory better explains the body of evidence, the belief changes to favor the new theory. Either way it is, in the strictist sense, a belief. It may be a correct belief that is logically supported by testable, empirical, objective evidence. Or it may be a false belief that could be altered or proved wrong by that same evidence. Nonetheless, logic dictates that our beliefs change when the evidence can no longer support our conclusions whether they are labeled scientific or not…thank you in advance….
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 11:11pm@SLEAZYHIPPOS ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Evolution simply isn’t a belief, and to say that it is generalizing the word belief to mean “anything that we potentially accept.”
Evolution is potentially falsifiable-While I think it is unlikely, I freely admit that evolution could potentially be proven untrue. People who accept evolution are continually trying ti disprove evolution(imagine the accolades one would receive for disproving Darwin’s work)
Faith isn’t falsifiable, it‘s why it’s faith. There’s nothing that I could offer that could prove your faith untrue. I can try to point out maybe why I think the Bible is untrue but faith will always find some kind rationalization or justification as to why it’s still true.
In a discussion I had someone tell me both “the Bible is infallible” and that “many parts of the Bible are mistranslated, modified and embellished.” I don‘t see Pope’s, Pastors and other religious leaders trying to debunk Christianity. Some Christians(or at least a lot I come across) don’t actually think critically or logically when it comes to their belief.
It’s how they can say “God is love” when something good happens and in the very next sentence say, “God is mysterious” when something bad happens. Now that’s not all Christians or religious people, but quite a few.
Report Post »Brentley
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:28pmOne last thing if this guy is a PASTOR of a church. I will make sure not to attend. THIS IS A PASTORS JOB..TO MAKE SURE HIS FLOCK IS READY FOR THE NEXT LIFE…not ASKING ARE YOU SAVED..HAVE YOU ASKED CHRIST INTO YOUR HEART..if these questions are not being asked he is A PASTOR YOU WANT TO STAY FAR AWAY FROM…
Report Post »woemcat
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:50pmi went to seminary w/ him and his wife and had a few classes w/ them. i’m no fan of his or hers.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:22pmSmall world
Report Post »blackyb
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:27pmYou will know if you are saved for you will have the witness in you that you want to share. You will not care what people tell you to say or not to say. The Holy Bible is true, every word. People need to study to show themselves approved. Do not let others tell you what is in or not in the Holy Bible. It was written for you. It is a will and testament left by Christ for you. He died and left you the New Testament. The Old Testament is a history, a true one before Christ and told of his coming. The King James Version original and schofield are the ones I use. These new, revised and added to or taken away from the Word should not be used. That is why many people are confused. Non-saved people do not understand nor do they have a desire to read the Bible. They should pray to have the strength to find the truth. They should ask for salvation. They need to confess, repent (turn away from sin) and ask for salvation in order to get it. You will know. Do not let anyone tell you that you do not know for that is not true.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:35pm“People need to study to show themselves approved. Do not let others tell you what is in or not in the Holy Bible.”
Very, very good advice. Trust no one, not even your preacher ( and I love mine ) but they are men and are prone to be wrong too.
Report Post »DiscipleMaker
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:21pm@ Squid
Very good advice of your own. I love my preacher as well, and am very good friends with he and the associate pastor (Who studied under David Platt…for those reading this, he is in no way affiliated with Christian Piatt…those are 2 different last names)…and both will tell you to double check everything they tell you…to look for yourselves…even guys that you trust and love to read (Piper, Sproules, MacArthur, Grudem, etc.), its always good to double check what they say.
Report Post »Cavallo
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:38pmBlackyB, I would suggest you learn Hewbrew, Greek, Latin, and German. Read the Bible in all those languages. Read the RCC versions as well as the protestant versions. The King James is likely a very bad translation as it was commissioned by.. King James.
Report Post »Passerby
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 7:25pmFalse, you do not use the original King James Version. It had different entire books than virtually all current versions of the King James.
What books go in the Bible has always been a matter of opinion, the Catholics and Protestants have different books even.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:26pm“7) “Do you accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior?” Again, this is not in the Bible. Anywhere. And for me, it goes against the whole Christlike notion of the suffering servant. People tried to elevate Jesus to the status of Lord, but he rejected it.”
BEWARE! This man is no christian. He is a text book heretic.
Jesus accepted worship. He rebuked Judas for chastising Mary for using the expensive perfume to worship Him. He claimed to be God “Before Abraham was, I AM”.
WHAT ?!!! Clearly, this idiot has never actually read the Bible. He must have gotten his theology from Jesus Christ Superstar.
Report Post »hatchetjob
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:37pmNo kidding SQUIDVETOHIO, I think so too.
Report Post »Nepenthe
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:37pmIn no way did Mary ‘worship’ Jesus with her perfume.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:48pmShe poured the very expensive perfume on his feet and washed it with her hair. Not to mention she called Him her lord when she found the tomb empty. Jesus went on to tell Judas about the importance of proper worship. There’s no denying she was worshipping Him.
I would only wash someone’s feet with my hair if I were worshipping them.
Report Post »Nasado
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:54pmActually, Mary used the perfume to honor him, not worship him. And the guy is right, nowhere in the Bible does it say those words. Now, that does not mean that we don’t need to but I have to agree with him that Christians should not say what he has on the list. 99% of people who hear these things have heard them 100x’s before and it does nothing but turn them away even further. I was a missionary for 2 years and I learned what to say and what not to say. Most of the statements listed come across as condecending and superior to the non believer. I am not saying these things are not important but we need to find better ways to share them then the same old tired adage. And the author is correct that most of these statements and invitations need to be offered only after you have invested significant time, energy, and love into that person. Then they will be more willing to accept and be open to them. SI agree with the premise of the article, maybe not tall the reasons he gives though.
Report Post »Pounding_hammer
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:05pm@ SQUIDVETOHIO
Thanks for pointing out these false teachings, SQUIDVETOHIO.
I’m what translation this Piatt uses (I’ll blame it on that), but I don’t agree with his statement:”People tried to elevate Jesus to the status of Lord, but he rejected it”
Most people were trying to deny His God-hood, and saw Him as heretical when He called Himself God.
John 10:30:
“I and the Father are one. The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
John 13:13: “You call me Teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am.”
I think these verses alone, prove that Piatt is out to lunch, heretical, and out to diminish Jesus Christ. I would feel comfortable calling him out as a false prophet in this case!
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:12pm@NASADO,
It happened twice. I contend both were worshipping Him. I suspect you are mormon and that is why you want to deny the worshipping aspect of what she did. Am I correct?
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:04pmSQUID
Are you insinuating that Mormons don’t worship Jesus? You’d be wrong.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:13pm@SQUIDVETOHIO
All Latter Day Saints are not the same.
I think it‘s a fine line between ’honoring‘ and ’worshipping’ in this instance.
It is evident that she recognized Jesus for who He was, in contrast to his host who offered no such dignities.
It is true we must be ‘born again’, but NASADO was pointing out that this is a life-long event. We must continually repent, ask for forgiveness, and endure to the end for our salvation to be sure. Even then, it is only through the grace and mercy of Christ that we are saved.
Everyone has their own style and personality. God knows that and places people within our reach that we may be able to help them. Sometimes cliches are effective, other times they are not. We must always rely on the Spirit; He will guide us if we let Him. After all, I cannot convert anyone, that‘s the Spirit’s job. He testifies of the truth, we ate to speak it.
Report Post »Nasado
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:25pmActually, there were 2 different Mary’s not the same on and one time was annointing His head and feet with oil and the other is washing His feet with tears. 2 seperate occasions with 2 sperate people. Now when it comes to worship, the tears were in a sense, honoring Christ because it was the custom of the day to wash an honored guests feet when they were over for a meal and yet the individual did not do so but Mary did.(are you saying that Jesus was worshiping the apostles when He washed their feet?) Now the other Mary who annointed Him did so out of respect, love, and honor. It was simbolic of His body being annointed before burial. Now, honor and worship can be used interchangably in these 2 cases so both statements are correct. I was simply stating that the author was correct in that Christ never said to worship him. That does not mean He did not accept worship. And as I said, I agree with the premis of what the author wrote about how those common Christian statements usually o more harm than good and we need to find a better way to invite those who do not have the truth. That does not mean I agree with the reasons he states in the article. I hope that clears it up.
Report Post »checkmate0831
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:44pmAmen to heretic.
#6 and #7 – Romans 10: 9-13
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile —the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
#8 – Revelations 1:3
3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
#2 – Luke 23:
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[d]”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Enjoy!
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:04pm@NASADO
Then we are pretty much in agreement. You are correct that Jesus did not demand worship while on earth. He would have us willingly worship Him (as I believe Mary did). Not by dictate. Sorry for any confusion.
I apologize for the mormon question. I did not mean disrespect. I know that mormons worship Jesus. I should have framed it better. I was referring to the Trinity and the equality of Christ and God the Father. I realize mormons disagree and I’m not trying to start that debate. I was trying to know where he was coming from.
Report Post »BeeAlert
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:35pmActually, the theology in JC Superstar isn’t this bad, if you account for the fact that it’s a story told from the viewpoint of Judas.
Report Post »marvel
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 7:21pmJust for the record, I am a latter-day saint, and I admit without any reservation that I worship Jesus Christ, as I do the Father. I believe the Bible is clear enough on the matter, as I accept the belief that Jesus Christ was known as Jehovah, and LORD in the Old Testament, and that He was the object of worship of the ancient Israelites. However, in case that is not enough, I have the Book of Mormon, which considers Christ, the Eternal God (see the Title Page). Other passages in the Book of Mormon confirm that Christ is the “Holy One of Israel” and that we must “bow down before him, and worship him” ( see 2 Ne. 25:29).
I agree that there are better ways to share one’s beliefs with others, but the author of the list is clearly mistaken on a few items of doctrine.
Report Post »Wildape
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 8:42pm@squidvetohio I bet you are god’s sockpuppet.
What I find both amusing and telling is your lack of faith in your own god. As if god needs your help to properly witness and turn a man to Christ. Faith is a personal journey. I think the writer is right. Why must every encounter be about immediate compliance? What if you are right Squid and you bungle your attempt to convert someone. Is that part of god’s great plan too? Will god hold you accountable for your incompetence? And if you have driven people from god’s grace what then should be the price of ruin a soul and confining it to an eternity of damnation as you rest in heaven? For certainly if you have an ounce of credit in bringing a man to Christ then you have an ounce in driving them away. And if you have no effect whatsoever then who cares what this writer says or does?
The truth is that you enjoy dominating every person and bending them to your thinking or will. I think it compensates for your real feelings of inequity that you have deep down. I’ve met so many people like you who use the love of god to beat the snot out of people. I have never missed being away from a church. I have prospered after leaving the faith and embracing the new. My faith doesn’t recruit but what is funny is guys like you bring them to us. Keep up the Christian cheer Squid.
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:24pmI just tell them they are going to hell///
Report Post »sbenard
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:32pmLOL!
Report Post »But you may not be far from the truth! Those who die without availing themselves of His grace will indeed pay for their own sins! That IS one definition of hell!
grudgywoof
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:02pmYall are goin to hell……god hates ****’s………you better get right or your goin to burn!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »Somehow I don’t want to stand in the Judgement of God with the devil saying you were no different than them so should you not burn for eternity. What do I say in defense? I was trying to tell them that Jesus loves them? Most homosexuals don’t want to be and live in a state of self loathing because of their sin…..would it not be better to tell them Jesus still loves them and there is a way out? With me it’s women and I have been married 25 years but I still lust after woman. Jesus said if I lust after women in my heart I have already commited adultry with them. Then, if that is true and since Jesus said it I beleive it is, am I better than the homosexual. No, I am not. We all deserve hell and that’s where I would be going but Jesus told me to knock and I did, and he came in. It‘s that simple and it’s a gift of grace that I accept on faith. That‘s what it’s all about Charlie Brown.
Brentley
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:24pmHmmm in order.
1. To them THAT KNOW THE LORD there is a purpose and reason.
2 John 3:16 John 14
3. if you BELIEVE IN JESUS and HAVE become a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN..then YES YOU DO KNOW
4 GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD AND PREACH THE GOSPEL
5. This comes under number 4
6 ROMANS …FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD..HENCE FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
7 SEE 6
8 END DAYS SEE REVELATION… NO MAN KNOWS THE TIME…but we have list of what to look for.
9 See 6 AGAIN
10. Maybe not stand but in our church we ask they raise hand. This way everyone knows who is visiting so we can greet them and make them feel welcome. To many churches get so large and a visitor is overlooked. Should not be that way. Everyone is important not just the visitor but the regulart attendee as well.
To sum it up….IF THE BIBLE SAYS IT..THAT SHOULD SETTLE IT..SIMPLE AS THAT.
Report Post »Nasado
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:44pmWhat is a born again Christian? What is the difference between that and a regular Christian? Does it mean you prayed a prayer, accepted Jesus as your Savior, decided to try to live your life following him?If you are born again, are you saved? Do all you have to do is say the born again prayer? If so I have been born again like 30 times. Is it a momentary process or is it a lifelong journey? These an many other questions are why he is correct and not you for I have heard many different answers to each of these.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:55pmNASADO,
Being born again is an event. The words used like “asking Jesus into your heart” are used probably too often but, the famouse verses in John chapter 3:16-19, Jesus explains in about 3 verses why people go to heaven and why people go to hell. The Gospel in a nutshell.
Just walking an isle and saying a prayer does not mean that you are “born-again”. But if you are convicted of you sin and want to repent of it and that conviction drives you to your knees to cry out for mercy from the God that created you and you are separated from, that is when true salvation happens.
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”
Romans 10:13
John 3:3
Report Post »“Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
grudgywoof
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:16pmIt’s not if you believe in Jesus! Even the devil beleives in Jesus and fears him. It’s that you accept him as your lord and savior and repent. Satanist beleive in Jesus for gosh sakes but they reject him. Stop this screaming your rightiousness at people. You are not rightious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are like me a fithy rag not worthy to eat the scraps from the fathers table……No man is good only God.
Report Post »Nasado
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:18pmActually, I reject the claim that it is an event because it was not for me. I grew up learning of Christ and I believed, mainly to the fact that my parents believed. As I grew and gained knowledge I understood more on my own and my faith began to develope based on my studies, my prayers, and my experiences. There was not a point where I was forgiven, where I felt changed, but I was continueally forgiven and I continue to change. I posed those questions becuase many believe being born again is a single event… and for some, that is true, but not all. I don’t want people to get set on an idea that may not be true for them. (just like the rapture, many believe that the rightous will disappear one day and be spared from the chaos that will occur but nowhere in the Bible does it say that. Yes the rightous will be lifted to meet Christ but we do not know when that will happen. I fear manys faith will be shaken and lost if and when the rapture does not occur)
Report Post »Halloween
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:37pmOnly problem with what you say is that the bible has been PROVEN, not guessed at or deduced, to be incorrect and unreliable. A religion based on unreliable and incorrect information with no back up is open to ANY interpretation.
Report Post »ChildofJesus
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:50pmwhy do folks skip over the next verse?
For God did not send His Son into the world to CONDEMN the world but to SAVE the world THROUGH Him. God isn’t willing that ANY should perish but that they come to him for salvation.
Report Post »Being-sold-short
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:09pmHalloween, you are wrong. the bible has been proved many times by many different old sources. the issue is, people don’t want to believe it to be true, so they try to ignore the truth and call it false. Which unfortunately works and everyone else begins to see the bible as false.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:10pm@HOLLOWEEN
If I had a dollar for every time I’ve blown up some supposed mistake or contradiction in the Bible, I’d be rich. I know I’ll never change your mind because the issue is your heart. But, I’ll humor you. Point out an error and I‘ll show you how you’re wrong. (And it‘s not because I’m super smart, it’s because the Bible is inerreant and fairly easy to understand)
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:18pm@NASADO
I think you have confused salvation with maturity. I would have told you I believe in Jesus when I was a child too. But looking back I know I wasn’t saved. I had no real conviction of my guilt or understanding whe He actually was. I had no relationship with HIm. “Even the demons believe and tremble”. It wasn’t until I was 25. I was broken over my sin and finally realized that I was separated from God because of it. I knew I deserved hell. That was the point when I was saved. That was 12 years ago. I have grown (and fallen) in some aspects of my life. It’s a change in your fellowship with God, not in the status of your salvation. That’s my opinion anyways and I believe I it jives with scripture.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:19pm@BEING-SOLD-SHORT
The only problem is,
Halloween made a claim that the Bible has been proven to be unreliable, and gave no evidence.
You said that the Bible has been proven reliable, and gave no evidence.
Both of your arguments are idiotic to me because you lack what any rational person would demand when told a claim. Evidence.
If you’re going to make a claim, please at least TRY to provide evidence.
Don’t just make a claim and move onto the next post.
Report Post »DiscipleMaker
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:44pm@ Nasado
You are right…and wrong. Being born again is an instantaneous act referred to as justification, where God makes a legal declaration and declares us righteous by imputing Christ’s righteousness on us. Adam sinned, his sin was imputed to all of humanity. Christ was crucified, all sin was imputed on him and he endured God’s wrath, now, through justification, God imputes Christ’s righteousness on us. The process leading up to justification could be what you are referring to. First is the Gospel call, where we hear the good news about what Christ has done for us. Then there is regeneration, where the Holy Spirit moves in you and starts to work on you internally. Then there is conversion, where you repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior. The time frame between regeneration and conversion is what is different for everybody. Not everybody has an experience of a dramatic conversion. After justification come sanctification, where you are continually growing to be more like Christ (John 17, Jesus prays for God to sanctify the apostles by His truth).
So, to sum it up, just because you did not experience a dramatic conversion does not mean that when you were born again was not instantaneous. God does not sit there and twiddle his thumbs trying to make up His mind. By the way, salvation is not based on any action of our own, only faith, because it is the one action that completely relies on someone else.
Report Post »bigpew
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 4:48pmnasado,
Report Post »You obviously have not been serious with God. You cannot lose your salvation only the blessing God has in store for those love and obey Him. If one truly seeks God and asks Jesus to indwell in their heart one will know that something changed. The thirty or so time you said the sinners prayer if you were sincere than you were saved. Not all who accept Christ into their lives see or even feel anything immediately (accept I’m sure it was an emotional time), some are changed instantly their whole world changes. Our relationship with God is a lifetime journey. The only people that will even seek God are the ones God was seeking first. Although God deeply desires all to be saved and come to Him, some were created for destruction. Again I do not why because I am not God.
Nasado
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:12pm@bigpew
Report Post »I am sorry but scriptually where it states that you cannot lose your salvation? I not interested into getting into a theological debate but there is nowhere that I am aware of that indicates that after a certain moment in your life your salvation is ensured. I believe that we are saved after all we can do, meaning that we need to do all we can to follow God but no matter what we do we will always fall short. But if we do all we can, then in the end Christ takes all our efforts unto Himself and He make up the difference for us.
alinmatt
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 7:42pm@squidvetohio, I have a contradiction for you and many more if you’d like, but it only takes one. 2 kings 8:26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2. Was Ahaziah 22 years old or 42 when he became king? You may want to write that one off as a transcription error, so I have a better one.
Genesis 11:26
26 Now Terah lived seventy years, and begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
Genesis 11:32
32 So the days of Terah were 205 years, and Terah died in Haran.
Genesis 12:4
4 So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him, and Lot went with him. And Abram was 75 years old when he departed from Haran.
Genesis 16:16
16 Abram was 86 years old when Hagar bore Ishmael to Abram.
Acts 7:2-4
2 And he said, “Brethren and fathers, listen: The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran, 3 and said to him, ‘Get out of your country and from your relatives, and come to a land that I will show you.’ 4 Then he came out of the land of the Chaldeans and dwelt in Haran. And from there, when his father was dead, He moved him to this land in which you now dwell.
In Genesis, Abram moves from Haran at the age of 75, yet according to the author of Acts in the New Testament, Abram left Haran after his father died. Abraham was 135 years old when his father died. So was he 75 years old or 135 years old when he left Haran. Furthermore, according to Genesis, Abram’s son Ishmael was born to him at the age of 86, which would have been after he lef
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 8:30pm@BIGPEW
“Although God deeply desires all to be saved and come to Him, some were created for destruction.”
Glad you admitted your God creates people to go to hell.
So loving!
It’s also horribly disingenuous to say, “The only people that will even seek God are the ones God was seeking first.”
and then say immediately after that, “……God deeply desires all to be saved and come to Him.”
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:23pmHe’s like a kid who knows he will get attention by saying somthing profound and different. We have a glut of pastors and teachers today who are all competing for their idea of percieved relevance in the Christian world. It’s a form of pride and vanity.
Everyone knows a “guy” like this. He turns every question around 180 degrees, all of his answers are in the form of a question, and he see‘s himself as a super smart guru who has reached enlightenment and now it’s his job to enlighten the rest of us who have not arrived, probabally because of our pre-concieved and wrong notions.
In reality he’s just a guy who had a few too many philosophy classes in community college, and enjoys arguing about stuff, for the sake of arguing.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:33pmSpot on!
Report Post »woemcat
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:51pmi know this guy. you are spot-on.
Report Post »SeeingThingsClearly
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:22pm#1, #4 and #10, I can see where he’s coming from. But the rest lead me ask “Are you really a Christian sir?“ The apostles all referred to Christ as ”Lord”, Jesus did die for our sins even if that makes other people feel uncomfortable. This guy introduces many of these phrases wrong by putting them into the context of being said to a virtual stranger, which does make it awkward. But saying it to someone at church, to a friend, an acquaintance, is fine. For a “pastor” he sure does make Christians appear egotistical which is not what most of us are.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:21pm2) “If you died today, do you know where you’d spend the rest of eternity?” No, I don’t, and neither do you. So stop asking such a presumptuous question as this that implies you have some insider knowledge that the rest of us don’t. And seriously, if your faith is entirely founded upon the notion of eternal fire insurance, you’re not sharing testimony; you’re peddling propaganda.
We do know something everyone don’t:
“Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;…” II Corinthians 5:11
Yes, I do know if I’m going to heaven:
“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” I John 5:11
Fire insurance? Really?
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should PERISH, but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9
“Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?” Ezekial 33:11
Sorry buffoon, but you are leading people astray. The gospel is not touchy-feely trying to make people feel good. It is divisive. It forces a decision. The Lord was “killed” for preaching it. Wise up pal. If you’re a christian, you need some remedial theology.
Report Post »applehill
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:19pmI agree with the Christian failure to actually get to know people. We seem to look for trophies instead of fellow believers and friends.
Report Post »awakeningiscoming
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:20pmI agree! I chose, by myself, to become a Christian at a very young age… I had an amazing family of missionaries and pastors… and grew up in a [non-flaky] spirit-filled home with parents who were the furthest thing from ‘seeker’ friendly and PC. But I completely agree with this author’s statements. Our lives have become a script&there’s no love any more to our motives. Jesus healed people who He knew would never return to Him or give another thought to Him. Why? Because He cared for them anyway. He didn‘t love them because one day maybe they’d get saved, or to “love them to salvation”, HE LOVED them because ITS WHO HE IS. He couldn’t help it. I believe we can love like that today, but we‘ve gotta ask God for that pure love that doesn’t have any strings attatched. For God ALREADY loved the world that HE GAVE His only Son… He sent His son BECAUSE He loved them. We have to look within ourselves& ask if we really love people or do we just want another trophy because we saved someone from hell?
Christianity is NOT all about saving people from hell, it’s about eternal reconciliation. That means even here&now. If we aren’t willing to disciple those&give our time, money, emotions, etc. to those who we SAY we want to “save from hell”, we are NOT doing a very good job being Christians. THUS WHY SOCIALISM IS ON THE CLIMB IN THE US. WE AREN’T willing to sacrifice A THING!
Report Post »I HIGHLY recommend Damon Thompson’s series “The Grace to Live Simply”AND watch “Furious
ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 3:41pmYup, Jesus loved them so much that he lived by the creed, “worship me or go to hell.”
What unconditional love!
Report Post »Tractorboy
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 10:33pm@moderationbest, If you mean Jesus’s creed is worship me or go to hell. If there is a heaven do you want to be cozied up next to someone who lies?, murders? steals? does everthing un to others he wouldn’t do un to himself? Are those the people you like to hang with? Not Me, I will try my best to be like the son of God, Jesus. The bible is complex but the message is simple. love like Jesus, be like Jesus..I do worship Jesus, because of what he did and who he forgave I probably couldn’t do that, he was a true peace maker unlike any man that walks the earth now…..Our trophy in life is to live by the teachings of Jesus, and to help bring others along with us, it makes for a good life and afterlife.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:36pm@Tractorboy
“If there is a heaven do you want to be cozied up next to someone who lies?, murders? steals? does everthing un to others he wouldn’t do un to himself?”
Granted, I don‘t know your specific brand of Christianity but that isn’t what mainstream Christianity of today teaches. I could try to live a good life, I could be kind, charitable an all around stand up person of humanity, but because I didn’t accept Jesus as my savoir, I’m going to hell.
“The bible is complex but the message is simple. love like Jesus, be like Jesus.” Again, that’s not the simple message. The simple message is, “accept me as your personal savior or go to hell”
Do you accept the evil teachings of original sin? That because of Adam, every human being is born worthy of an eternal torture? That when a newborn comes into this world, they’re automatically condemned to an eternity of hellfire unless they accept Jesus as their lord and personal savior?
You try to go with some feel good version of a God. Do you go around with the intellectually dishonest claim of “God is good, God is love”?
No, your God DEMANDS worship, and if you don’t, he’s got a special place for you, and it’s not going to be pretty. It’s a sick and evil joke that is taught to children as little as 2 years old(some earlier) that without Jesus, they are worthless, pitiful, wretched and are worthy of being burned in a lake of fire for an eternity. It’s evil teaching.
Report Post »Tractorboy
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:39pm@moderationisbest,
At our house of worship, we refer to hell as a separation from the father, and Jesus in the afterlife, nothing about lakes of fire. Our brand of Christanity, I’m non denominational, what I wrote in my post, is what we follow, bible based, our church does partner with other denominations, on certain things because there is much devision in Christanity, they are trying to bring together us brother and sisters in Christ.
Anyway, Original Sin, that is old testament, God‘s new covenant is he gave the wrath of man’s sins to his son, his son paid the price for all sin, past, present, and future, that does not give us a license to sin, The Loving God the father wants to be close to his children, you, me, everone, If we love him 1st and live by his comandments so called Worship you will be close to him, now and forever.
Also there are lots of Christains that noway reassemble Jesus, if you try to fashion your life to be like Jesus, and reject the nonsense of sin, not at all easy, I mess up all the time, that is why I pray, pray for wisdom, pray for good judgement, pray for forgiveness on the things I mess up on, and thank God that he sent his only son to pay for our sins, otherwise who would get into heaven? If you call this appreciation I have as worship, I am guilty. I don’t know how you get to heaven any other way, who’s teachings do You follow? Do you just follow what’s OK in our culture? Yikes! I’ll stick with Jesus. God Bless friend, have a goo
Report Post »awakeningiscoming
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 7:57pm@moderationisbest
God doesn’t “send” anyone to hell if they don’t worship Him, and the whole point of Jesus is because there was separation from God.. that MAN chose. We chose that separation. The whole point of Jesus is not to get to heaven, but to bridge that separation. Not only for eternity, but for the present. My life as a Christian does NOT revolve around heaven. It revolves around having the opportunity to have a relationship with God NOW. [The history of the tabernacle and how Jesus ripped the veil in the tabernacle showed me how its just not only about heaven and hell…)
But that‘s what made me understand Jesus didn’t come to condemn the world (John 3:17) but to save an already condemned world who chose themselves to be condemned. It’s not about “worship me or die”, its about bridging the gap. He cares about healing the human heart, FIRST and foremost. Like I said previously, Jesus actually actively loved people He KNEW would never even say thanks and would even betray Him. That’s love. And He still loves today.
There’s a lot to being a Christian that you really have to sift through. It took me years to really sift through the unbiblical and prideful stuff that’s out there that people actually think Christianity is all about. Its kinda like how everyone thought Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house—TINA FEY pretending to BE Palin said that. That’s how a lot of stuff gets misconstrued for ChristiaN
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:58pm@AWAKENINGISCOMING
I chose nothing. If you accept the idea of original sin, I was born condemned and worthy of hell and unless I accept Jesus, I’m screwed.
The way I am speaking is just the blunt truth of you believed, you just don’t like it said in such sharp terms.
Fact is, if I don’t love Jesus and accept him as my personal savior, I’m going to hell(as taught by mainstream Christianity).
There are some Calvinist who say that God pre-determines everyone’s life. That there are just some people that God created go to hell. That no matter what I do, I”m going to hell. I know you might say, “well that’s not MY form of Christianity” but for quite a lot of people it is.
God doesn’t ask for worship, he demands it. Look at how egotistical and vain the first commandment is.
Report Post »bitterclinger
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:19pmMeh. I’d read it just to read it, but he does come off like a know-it-all. I’d love for him to meet this guy, who is rock solid in his faith and amazing in a debate!
http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=41663
Report Post »QuintusFabius
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:19pmWhat a bunch of horse hoowey, this guy is so not getting the point of half of these. Like #’s 1 or 3 are not bad, and the rest is just how some people are… I’ve heard muslims and jews and sihks say their religious equivalents many many times. If someone is offended by these, be thick skinned, get TFOI please. A person should be able to express their religion, thats part of the restoring love deal right? And its kindof an important thing for the country too… Rhymes with …. No pollution, Resolution….
Why arent people standing up for their beleifs?!? Freakin Grow a pair!
Report Post »ITGuy
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:19pmI only agree with a couple of those, but I think he’s missing one real one. “God is in control”. No….no he isn’t. The very fact that God gave us free will means he has no control over us or what we do, and how we affect other people and things. We need to stop saying that. I’ve heard it in church all my christian life, and it just dawned on me one day. How?
Report Post »hatchetjob
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:28pmYes, we do have free will, but ultimately God is in control of things.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:39pmWe don’t even truly have free will until you become a christian because we are “a slave to sin and trespasses”. We are forced to do what is in our nature. That’s why christianity is so paradoxial. Loving your enemies, giving your coat to someone who just stole your shirt. This is opposite of our nature and is external evidence of your true faith.
Report Post »ITGuy
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 4:02pmNo he is not, that is by design. He doesn’t control you if you up and decide to kill an entire family cause the dad cut you off in traffic. He may tell you not to through the holy spririt but YOU make that decision. He offers opportunities but you have to decide to take them or follow what he says or not. No…God is not in control, by his own design.
Report Post »SenatorLoser
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 6:47ammy question is then why should we pray for things? His word states we have not because we ask not or because we ask amiss that we may consume it upon our own lusts. Why would he instruct us to pray without ceasing if he did not have control? I would say He is most certainly in control and we also have free will. I know we do not pray just to ask for things but that is however one of the things implied from the verse.
Report Post »million
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:19pmThis guy is a total hack and as much a Christian as Obama is. Why the Blaze would even post such dribble is beyond me. Oh, and where did he buy his bible from, a Islamic outlet store?
Report Post »guz75
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:54pm‘Why the Blaze would even post such dribble is beyond me.’ – So you’d have something to be pointlessly outraged at…….. Mission accomplished.
Report Post »hatchetjob
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:00pmI agree, this story really didn’t need to be posted, unless of course it helps someone to see Jesus and turn their life around.
Report Post »hatchetjob
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:02pmGUZ75, The Blaze is for us all to speak our mind. If we are pleased with a story or outraged what does it matter?
Report Post »guz75
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:15pm@HATCHETJOB – Surely you get the hypocrisy of that comment??
Report Post »hatchetjob
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:32pmGUZ, I had a brain freeze, sorry.
Report Post »Kiwon
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:17pmSounds like Christian Piatt should change his name to “Doubting Piatt.”
Report Post »Swamp_Hunter
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:14pmMuch of this is just wrong. Determinism, or universal causality for example, is clearly codified in the “Golden Chain of Salvation” found in Romans, and elsewhere in the bible. Is God not the Alpha and the Omega? The beginning AND the end? I personally do not believe there ever has been, or ever will be, a single atom out of place in God’s universe. The example of rape that was given DOES have a cause. In that case the cause of the rape is a demented lunatic, and he became a demented lunatic due to any number of other causes. I would go on down the rest of the list, but from reading it I can tell there is little agreement I would find with this guy…
Report Post »MrNairb
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:25pmHe wasn‘t saying it didn’t have a cause, but that saying “everything happens for a reason” isn’t going to help someone through that situation.
Report Post »saranda
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:29pmSwampy – you gave the rapists side but what of the victim? Did what happened to them “happen for a reason”?
I lime this guy. His type could reform the view of Christians bynon believers. Sadly, as the comments on here suggest, the overly pious and pompous will not give his type room to get their word out.
Report Post »hatchetjob
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:12pmSARAN WRAP, I haven’t read any “pious” comments here, just the truth from the Holy Bible.
Report Post »deeberj
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:36pmSaranda, you said “His type could reform the view of Christians bynon believers. ”
I don’t think Christians should be lukewarm and iffy in their beliefs in order to make non-believers like us.
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:14pmHe must read a different BOOK than I read. Too “feel goody” for me.
Report Post »Sol Invictus
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 5:08pmReal Christians do “FEEL GOOD”.We know you grandma and have already established you’re no Christian. I think you’ll find he READ the NEW TESTAMENT.
Report Post »This man talks SENSE – you wouldn’t UNDERSTAND it. Also you notice that the RANDOM use of CAPITALS is not a form of punctuation.
ninja97
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:13pmI wholeheartedly agree with 1, 3, 5, 6, 9, 10.
Report Post »I wholeheartedly disagree with 2 and 8. (Yes, we can know, and yes, it is)
I’m ambivalent on 4.
I agree with 7 being listed, but the reasoning in the description is 100% wrong. John 8:58 – Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
hatchetjob
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:19pmIt surprises me that he doesn‘t know where he’ll spend eternity.
Report Post »proliance
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:38pmNo one should claim they know where they will spend eternity. Jesus said very few will be chosen. He wasn’t talking about non-believers, he was talking about those who claim to follow him. If you say you know for sure you’re going to heaven, then you’re committing the grave sin of arrogance. You probably feel comfortable saying that because some preacher said all your sins, past, present and future are already forgiven.
Nope. They can be forgiven but there’s nothing automatic about it. Nothing unclean shall enter the kingdom of heaven, and that includes so called Christians who believe they can get away with anything and not make atonement.
Report Post »hatchetjob
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:10pmAs far as #8 goes (This could be the end of days), he has it all wrong. Christians see the signs and hope the end comes soon so that Jesus will come and get us out of here. It has nothing to do with rubbing anything in anyone’s face.
Report Post »Redwood Elf
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 1:07pmWhereas Islamist extremists try to bring about the “End Times” so that Mohammed will come and slaughter anyone who isn’t an Islamist Extremist, while Liberals call them “Largely Secular” and say they “eschew Violence” (Who uses the word “Eschew” in casual conversation anyway?)
Report Post »Tractorboy
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:10pmSorry if us Christains make any of you uncomfortable, that is not the intent. We too are uncomfortable, with the unholy being made holy everyday, and then trying to make us feel weird, we are not the ones that condone killing, lying, stealing, sexual sins, and then try to pawn it as normal.
Report Post »PingPongPing
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:07pmif the Holy Spirit would urge a believer to say any of the 10 so called “cliches”, to whom should we then listen to, this author, or the Holy Spirit?
Report Post »antitheist
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:24pmWell if you believe that you are being contacted by a ghost, then I would suggest you seek the attention of a psychiatrist immediately.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:01pm@PINGPONGPING
Excellent answer.
Report Post »mongastanman
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:03pmHow can a pychiatrist help you with a ghost they don’t believe in? (Quack! Quack!)
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 12:06pmSomeone just slap Christian Piatt and let’s move on shall we? He seems to be embarrassed about being christian.
Report Post »toiletclogga
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:59amI only agree with #10. The author appears to be a know-it-all when it comes to Christianity. Stay away from these people.
Report Post »mongastanman
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 2:00pmSame here. I agree with not treating people who don’t go to your church(or christian at all) like they’re alittle below you. But I can definitly see why he started his own church.
Report Post »Tri-ox
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 11:58amHuh?
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:07pmThats what I‘m thinking the whole time I’m reading this article…huh…My #11…things christians shouldn’t say..and living with a carnal mind that I do….you can kiss my chrisitan butt!…sorry Lord!
Report Post »EGV in Utah
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 1:02amThis guy sounds like a minion of Jim Wallace. We were warned by the apostle Peter when he wrote about guys like this: “And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother, Paul, aslo according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:15, 16
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