Faith

Author Pens ‘10 More Cliches Christians Should Avoid’ (Do You Agree With Him?)

Editor’s Note: The Blaze did not compose this list, nor are we endorsing it. We are merely reporting on it to spark conversation about some of the more debated social aspects of the Christian faith. 

Christian Piatt Gives 10 More Cliches Christians Should Never UseYesterday, we spawned quite a robust conversation surrounding speaker, author, writer and pastor Christian Piatt and his “Ten Cliches Christians Should Never Use” list. The sayings he presented were purportedly common statements that are spouted by followers of Christ. While Piatt believes that these sentiments shouldn‘t be uttered and that they’re better left unsaid, many readers very clearly disagree.

(Related: Author Outlines ‘10 Cliches Christians Should Never Use’)

Today, we have another set of cliches that Piatt wants fellow believers to steer clear of. Once again, some of these are going to be rejected by Christians who see them as truthful and helpful to progressing the gospel message they hold to so dear. But, the list, none-the-less, is a conversation-starter.

Here are 10 more of Piatt’s Christian cliches to avoid:

1) Love the sinner, hate the sin. This is a backhanded way to tell someone you love them, at best. It also ignores the command by Jesus not to focus on the splinter in our neighbors’ eyes while a plank remains in our own. Bottom line: we all screw up, and naming others’ sin as noteworthy while remaining silent about your own is arrogant.

2) The Bible clearly says…Two points on this one. First, unless you’re a Biblical scholar who knows the historical and cultural contexts of the scriptures and can read them in their original languages, the Bible isn’t “clear” about much. Yes, we can pick and choose verses that say one thing or another, but by whom was it originally said, and to whom? Cherry-picking scripture to make a point is called proof-texting, and it’s a theological no-no. Second, the Bible can be used to make nearly any point we care to (anyone want to justify slavery?), so let’s not use it as a billy club against each other.

3) God needed another angel in heaven, so He called him/her home. Another well-meaning but insensitive thing to say. This assumes a lot about what the person you’re speaking to believes, and it also ignores the grief they’re going through. The person who died is, well, dead. Focus on the needs of the living right in front of you.

Christian Piatt Gives 10 More Cliches Christians Should Never Use

4) Are you saved? I’ve addressed the theological understandings of hell and judgment in other pieces, but regardless of whether you believe in hell, this is a very unattractive thing to say. First, it implies a power/privilege imbalance (ie, “I’m saved, but I’m guessing you’re not based on some assumptions I’m making about you), and it also leaps over the hurdle of personal investment and relationship, straight into the deep waters of personal faith. If you take the time to learn someone’s story, you’ll like learn plenty about what they think and believe in the process. And who knows? You might actually learn something too, rather than just telling others what they should believe.

5) The Lord never gives someone more than they can handle. What about people with mental illness? What about people in war-torn countries who are tortured to death? What about the millions of Jews murdered in the Holocaust? And this also implies that, if really horrible things are happening to you, God “gave” it to you. Is this a test? Am I being punished? Is God just arbitrarily cruel? Just don’t say it.

6) America was founded as a Christian nation. Honestly, I find it hard to believe we are still having this conversation, but here we are. Anyone with a cursory understanding of history understands that we were founded on the principle of religious liberty – not just the liberty to be a Christian – and that many of the founding fathers explicitly were not Christian. Thomas Jefferson, anyone?

7) The Bible says it; I believe it; that settles it. If ever there was a top-shelf conversation killer this is it. You’re not inviting any opinion, response, thought or the like. You’re simply making a claim and telling others to shut up. Also, I’ve yet to meet someone who takes EVERY WORD of the Bible literally. Everyone qualifies something in it, like the parts about keeping kosher, wearing blended fibers, stoning adulterers, tossing your virgin daughters into the hands of an angry mob…you get the point.

Christian Piatt Gives 10 More Cliches Christians Should Never Use

8) It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. This is a little “joke” some Christians use to assert the superiority of opposite-sex unions over same-sex ones. But here’s the thing: if you really believe the first and only two people on the planet at one point were Adam and Eve, who did their kids marry and have babies with? This, my friends, is incest (happened again if you believe Noah’s family members were the only survivors of the great flood). This just demonstrates the selective moral blindness many of us Christian have and seriously compromises our credibility about anything else.

9) Jesus was a Democrat/Republican. Seems to me that, when pressed, Jesus was happy to keep church and state separate. Remember the whole thing about giving to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and giving to God what is God’s? And if we choose to, we can pick and choose anecdotes to support Jesus being a liberal (care for the poor, anti death penalty) or a conservative (challenge government authority, practice sexual purity). Jesus was Jesus, and if it was as simple as pegging him to one of two seriously flawed contemporary forms of government, I can promise you I would not be a Christian.

10) (Insert sin here) is an abomination in the eyes of God. Almost always, when this phrase is invoked, it has something to do with sex or sexuality. Seldom do folks care to mention that divorce and remarriage is in that list of so-called abominations. Also, there are several words translated in English Bibles as ‘abomination,’ many of which don’t imply the sort of exceptionalism that such a word makes us think of today. And while we’re on the thread of things scripture says God “hates,’ let’s consider this from Proverbs:

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among  brethren.

What do you think about Piatt’s views? Let us know in the comments section, below.

Comments (323)

1 2 3 ... 7
  • mongastanman
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:51pm

    After reading about this guy’s beliefs, is anyone going to join his church? Anyone… anyone… (didn’t think so)

    Report Post » mongastanman  
    • pdw
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:03pm

      Well if you do not believe what he has posted then why do you not try them out on people and see what their response will be?

      Report Post »  
    • Locked
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:05pm

      @Mongastanman

      “After reading about this guy’s beliefs, is anyone going to join his church? Anyone… anyone… (didn’t think so)”

      I don‘t think he’s stating his beliefs, necessarily, so much as posting a “Things not to say if you actually want to evangelize” guide. He comes off as abrasive and edgy, but really: would any non-believer want religious justifications shoved in their face? No one responds well to adversity and canned phrases. That‘s what’s important to take away from this.

      If you’re getting upset at these, I think it’s worthwhile to ask yourself “Have I ever said one of these?” Then think about the author’s point: can you see why doing so is more likely to lose souls than save them?

      In the same way that an atheist is going to have no success in “converting” a Christian if he comes out with “You believe in an invisible flying Zeus, isn’t that silly?”, confronting a non-believer with these phrases will also instantly shut down a conversation. If you want to save souls you need to treat people as people, not scripted encounters.

      Report Post »  
    • Cavallo
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:11pm

      If anyone does, be careful about running off to Gana or some place.

      Report Post » Cavallo  
    • Drives Like Jehu
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:35pm

      christian piatt is a snake in sheep’s clothing…he combines the worst of ignorance about God’s Word, deception, false teachings, materialism, greed, and hedonism to recommend how Christians should approach the lost. Phooey.

      Report Post » Drives Like Jehu  
    • mitchbarr
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:53pm

      If your a Christian and you believe the Bible especially the Great Commission of Matthew 28:19 and 20 then this gentleman is not going to offend anyone he meets right it to hell.

      As a Christian we are to tell others about our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ out of meekness and love for that person. Not to make a notch in our belts but to bring honour and glory to God.

      We need to study the Bible, have a concern, love and the right motivations, attitude toward our fellow human beings

      Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:29pm

      “Are you saved?” (born again?)

      I bet this question really irritates Christian Piatt! Probably more than most!

      Does not bother me one bit, and I am dead certain of the answer…And ever willing to tell others what Jesus Christ has done for me!

      Report Post »  
    • Weaver
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:40pm

      We are commanded to be “fishers of men”…well how do you fish? gently toss bait to someone; if they take it you got yourself someone willing to listen. If not, move along, there is plenty of “fish” in the water/nation.

      Report Post » Weaver  
    • SonOfThunder
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:41pm

      He is a moron.

      Report Post »  
    • DoGooder
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:50pm

      Truth is, if we are talking to someone about God, we are suppose to allow the Holy Spirit to speak through us. That said, if we are calculating as to what say or not say, we are interjecting ourselves into the work of the Spirit. If someone is offended by that communication from the Spirit because of phraseology, then so be it!

      Report Post » DoGooder  
    • Pontiac
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 6:03pm

      @Locked
      It amazes me how they “don’t get it”. These “bible thumpers” aren’t converting anyone to christianity. They don’t care to. Instead they’re driving people away in droves faster than scientific knowledge could alone. All I need to do is sit back and laugh at them as their dogmatic mythology implodes under their own fervor.

      Report Post » Pontiac  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 6:17pm

      With all due respect PONTIAC…At least as much as I can muster for you…It is YOU who does not get
      it!

      It is not OUR job to “win converts.” The Holy Spirit will unblind those He chooses. Our job is to merely tell others about Christ. That and to lead a Christian life so as to be a light to others…Something most of us fail miserably at…

      As far as your “science vs. religion” argument…You are a lot more ignorant than you know! If anything, the last 3 decades have been victorious for creationists. Science is now on our side, you are just too blind to understand that.

      Report Post »  
    • hayesstephen
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 6:23pm

      O.k. Yesterday I did not agree with most of what he said. However today, yes I agree. One thing we Christians forget is that My Jesus wants NO ONE TO BE CONDEMNED. My Jesus said that loving your neighbor is the greatest commandment. Also He said that on that day, people we come to him saying didn’t we heal the sick, work miracles in My Name……. And if those people did all those thing and did not have love, the are condemned. If you break one of the commandments you stand in judgement for all the laws. 613. Oh I don’t care what anyone else says, 613 and don’t break even one because just like the worst sinner we stand before them. Through grace we and save and through grace will receive eternal life. Pray for your neighbor, pray that your neighbor is praying for you and Love Yahweh your God!!!

      Report Post »  
    • Pontiac
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 6:37pm

      @trolltrainer
      trollolololol. I almost read your entire post but realized it was too stupid to be a serious post. Thanks for the laugh.

      Report Post » Pontiac  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 6:53pm

      It’s okay PONTIAC, I fully understand.

      For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom

      For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

      “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

      Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

      Maybe someday you will see, I pray that may be the case, though I doubt it. But I understand you are blinded now and it is foolishness to you.

      Report Post »  
    • Sparhawk
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 7:16pm

      “Going to church makes you a Christian, just like standing in the garage makes you a car” (paraphrased, original author unknown).

      Report Post »  
    • black9897
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:19pm

      @WEAVER

      No, he did not create all human ethnicities on the 6th day. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that. Different human ethnicity’s came about when God split up everyone at the tower of babel. After people spread out over the world and after a long time period. Due to environment and the God-given ability to allow humans to adapt (some call it MICRO-evolution, NOT macro) we get the different colors of skin, features, etc.

      Tanning is adaption; lifting weights is adaption. When you lift weights you tear down muscle. Your body out of a defense mechanism says we must rebuild stronger so we don’t feel that stress again. It does this because it thinks in animal like ways, and in the “wild” if your body didn’t get stronger you would die. Your body doesn‘t know you don’t‘live in the jungle and don’t need this to happen.
      Same goes for tanning. Your body is simply defending against the sun’s rays. So it gets darker. Thus why over the many generation’s people in Africa and in hot parts of the world adapted, thus they have dark skin

      cont….

      Report Post » black9897  
    • black9897
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:31pm

      @WEAVER

      Ohhh…I see. You’re under the impression that in Gen 1:27 when God says “mankind” it means he created all the people right then and there. That is simply not true. Chapter one gives the chronology of creation, while chapter two provides specific details about the creation. So while yes, “mankind” does mean the human race, it did NOT mean God created ALL people right then. It meant Adam and Eve, the first humans.

      What I said is scientifically correct and Biblically correct about how the different ethnicities (not races. There is only one race, the human race) came about.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • do_it_all_again
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:55pm

      OK, i will say it again, If you visit his website, you can see he is very popular with the atheists, unbelievers, and homosexuals, that alone should tell you something, and if you read anything he writes you can tell it is inspired but the spirit of anti-christ.

      He does not know his Bible very well, just enough to twist it around, just like satan does.
      However, i do agree that everyone could use a little more tact and respect for others, no matter which side of the isle your on.

      Report Post »  
    • do_it_all_again
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:07pm

      @BLACK9897 ,
      You are correct sir

      Report Post »  
    • SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:17pm

      Plenty has been said on the obvious errors and horrendous hermeneutics this particular man applies to reach his conclusions. I believe his assertions make it pretty clear he is part of the emergent “church” movement and their heretical teachings.

      For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:2-4

      12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11

      Take it for what it is worth, but ……… a tree is known by its fruit. Make a tree good and it will bear good fruit, make it bad and it will bear bad fruit — Jesus

      Report Post » SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING  
    • stage9
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:41pm

      9) The Bible says it; I believe it; that settles it.
      a. I would have to agree with this to a point. It’s a true statement, but to the average person it simply isn’t enough to say this. It is not enough to say the Bible is true; it must be shown why it is true. The Apostle Peter made this clear when he said:

      ” …but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect…” 1 Peter 3:15

      b. When a Christian says he takes the Bible literally, what he means is that we are to read and understand the Bible in a plain or straightforward manner. The term “plainly” is probably a more appropriate word.

      Reading the Bible “plainly” means understanding that literal history is literal history, metaphors are metaphors, poetry is poetry, etc. The Bible is written in many different literary styles and should be read accordingly.

      stage9  
    • Amos37
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:44pm

      Basically this guy wants us to be “turn the other cheek” people. Christ wasn’t talking about if someone hits you on the cheek to just turn away. (You better believe that person would have an accident if they did that, ie: slip and fall). He was talking about if someone messes up the number of a verse overlook it to see the broader spiritual meaning. Isn’t about time we had a few more followers with backbones who say “We’re not going to accept your beliefs, we are going to do it by the Book!”?

      Report Post »  
    • SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:50pm

      @ STAGE….wow you put a lot of effort into that!!! Your fingers have got to be tired. Well done. I believe that the emergent church theology is heavily embraced and intertwined with Sojourners…I might not be accurate on this but I believe that is correct….again thanks for your efforts….

      Report Post » SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING  
    • Citizen7154
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 7:54am

      I think this guy is sewing discord among brethren. Some points are valid, but some are not.

      Report Post »  
    • mitchbarr
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 9:44am

      @STAGE9 BRAVO Well done

      Another thing on point 8. Noah’s sons did not commit incest.Gen 7:7 says “sons wives”

      Report Post »  
    • THERAPTURCOMES
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 10:17am

      Are you kidding? The EMERGENT CHURCH is a tidal wave that is replacing the real churches. This is the apostate church warned of in the bible that would arise in the last days.

      Report Post »  
    • firewhenready
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 12:08pm

      The bible’s sole purpose is to reveal Jesus Christ. The OT was a foreshadow of his coming. Everything hinges on whether JC was who he said he was, period. To get off on tangents is a distraction what is the hard facts of JC. Piatt’s top ten
      1. Hate the sin, love the sinner: We are called to holiness, and our log once removed allows for admonishing in truth and love other believers only.
      2. The bible theme fm old to new: no life outside of God: 1 Jn 5:11:12. …God has given us eternal life this life is in the Son…he who has the son has life…he who does not have the son does not have life. No cherry picking
      3. Only a child would say that
      4. Are you saved: The great commission. Martyrs have stood on the question.
      5. The Lord never gives someone more than they can handle: Starting with JC cruciified with the sins of the world. And JC said if they persecuted me they will persecute you. Nothing held back, but martyr’s and currently persecuted are handling it,,hmmm?.
      6. US founded as Christian Nation: For a bunch of supposed atheists and non-Christians they got the foundation pretty close to God. Choice is still yours
      7.The Bible says it; I believe it; that settles it: JC settles is or he doesn’t. Nothing else is germane
      8. ) It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Adam and Steve is not incest, it is homosexuality.
      Clearly the world was different, just look around at a fallen society
      9. only one he got right
      10. Why worry, the only sin that truly matters is

      Report Post »  
    • maccow
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 1:43pm

      In a world where the humanist, atheists, and marxists are getting louder and more in your face by the day, this “Christian” is telling believers to sit down and shut-up. His theology says not to believe the bible, only a Phd. scholar can understand it, and don’t evangelise for that is not PC and may offend. His straw man arguments concerning the supposed irreparable harm that sharing your faith with strangers may cause if you don’t first spend a few months getting to know them, is not biblical.
      On the day of Pentecost, this weak mealy mouth Christian would have never left the upper room with Peter out of fear of being offensive. He would not have preached boldly like Peter, he would not have pointed out their offense in killing Christ like Peter did, and he never would have brought hundreds into salvation like Peter did. If he would have been in Ephesus instead of the Apostle Paul there would have been no disruption, no uproar, nobody saved.
      Brothers and sisters in Christ, if you are comfortable in a church that teaches Piatt like doctrines, and you are wondering why your not growing, its because you are being fed sweetened condensed milk rather than the meat of the gospel. Modern church’s that are teaching psycho-christianees are the true definition of Laodicea, neither hot nor cold and the Lord will spew them out of His mouth soon.
      Piatt can add a Laodicea quote to his next list.

      Report Post » maccow  
    • maccow
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 2:01pm

      My list of ten Christian Piatt cliches that Christians should avoid;
      1. From “Everything happens for a reason.” Piatt says, “faith, by definition, is not reasonable.” Your faith is grounded in more reason, then any Greek, Humanist, Marxist, Atheist explanations for the purpose of life. It can only be classified as unreasonable if you deny the nature of God.

      2. From “If you died today, do you know where you’d spend the rest of eternity?” Piatt stays, “No, I don’t, and neither do you.” Don’t believe this cliche. Christ has told us what the believer in Him can expect after death and the bible clearly defines the role of the Holy Spirit as the believer’s assurance in eternal life. Piatt is defining for all how a non-spirit filled Christian would view the bible, eternal life, and evangelism.

      3. From “He/she is in a better place.” Piatt says, “to speak with such authority about something we don’t actually know is arrogant.” Christ taught with authority and through the power of the Holy Spirit the authority contained in God‘s word is there for the believer’s use in bring sinners to repentance and salvation. All Piatt has demonstrated in his quote is that he does not know, which is painfully evident to any well grounded Christian.

      Report Post » maccow  
    • maccow
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 2:13pm

      My list of ten Christian Piatt cliches that Christians should avoid; (Continued)

      4. From, “Can I share a little bit about my faith with you?” Piatt says, “Too often, Christians presume we have something everyone else needs, without even knowing them first.” Its not about you or me Piatt, it is about getting them into relationship with Christ. The straw man here is the idea that mature Christians don’t know to do both. What if I only have five minutes with this stranger, and an opportunity to share the gospel arises? Should I just do the Piatt pass on it? Read about Phillip and the Ethiopian eunuch. (Acts 8)

      5. From, “You should come to church with me this Sunday.” Piatt says, “if you come off as just another opinionated, opportunistic Christian, why should they honor your predatory approach.” Another straw man. What kinds of idiot immature Christians does Piatt surround himself with that do “come off” like this?

      6. From, “Have you asked Jesus into your heart?” Piatt says, “As many times as I’ve heard this, I still don’t really know what it means.“ We should all stop here and thank Piatt for revealing to us that he is completely lacking in any basis of Christian theology and therefore the rest of his views on ”Christian” living is irrelevant. (God help his followers)

      Report Post » maccow  
    • maccow
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 2:16pm

      My list of ten Christian Piatt cliches that Christians should avoid; (Continued)

      I could go to the end but you either get the point by now, or you don’t.

      Report Post » maccow  
    • Pigpen
      Posted on July 14, 2012 at 3:47pm

      YAWN! We know, we know, … Christians should also avoid using words like Faith and Hope… it is just embarrassing! And Christians focus WAAAAYYY too much on this “Jesus” person. (Does anyone seriously believe he was ever really born at all much less risen and living again?) And Christians should stop expecting to be able to worship this “Jesus” in the New World Order that our Founding Fathers were REALLY trying to establish when they protested the tax on tea dressed in their obviously homosexual “frocks” as Indian boys… [end sarcasm]

      Sorry Lefties, but… America IS a WHITE CHRISTIAN NATION let Africa, India, South America be and worship however they please, but America is WHITE and CHRISTIAN

      …and…

      JESUS CHRIST is the Savior of the World. JESUS CHRIST was crucified, died, was buried, and rose again on the third day. JESUS CHRIST will come again IN GLORY to judge the living and the dead. I will gladly DIE and REJOICE that I was counted worthy by my LORD JESUS CHRIST to be a martyr for his Word when you FILTH come and haul me off to the Penn State Football Stadium to be beaten to death by homosexual illegal immigrants or whatever you lowlifes fantasize about while planning my demise.

      Report Post » Pigpen  
    • milez5
      Posted on July 14, 2012 at 7:56pm

      Well, I am no great authority on the bible, but regarding number 7, is it not true that Jesus said that he was here to fulfill the law? If that is so, as I have always been told at least, that means basically that one has two choices, accept the gift of grace that was given when Jesus died on the cross for you or live by the law. However—again as I understand it, if one chooses to live by the law then you are responsible to obey the law at all times, and it was because man proved to be to weak for this that Jesus came to save us. If my understanding is correct then modern Christians need not concern themselves at all with the old testament law because they are living under the grace of Christ’s sacrifice for them. Am I wrong?

      Report Post »  
  • romadave
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:50pm

    Insert predictable Christian outrage here.

    I‘m not a fan of these ’provocative’ type stories that have no real answer. I think they are just here to spawn cllicks and comments, must equal to ratings.

    This guy’s list is his own viewpoint. Does not effect my belief system an iota.

    Report Post »  
    • SumoMoses
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:02pm

      Instead of dismissing this as click-bait, just know that most secular-minded people will agree with 10 out of 10 of his statements.

      Try thinking for yourself instead of just fixating what your pastor tells you.

      Report Post »  
    • pdw
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:05pm

      It is my prayer that all of us are not swayed by comments but will use our Scriptures for our main source to build our own testimonies not comments from others..

      Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:33pm

      SumoMoses
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:02pm

      Instead of dismissing this as click-bait, just know that most secular-minded people will agree with 10 out of 10 of his statements.
      ————————————————————————
      This is probably true. Which says more about this “pastor” than anything else.

      He belongs to the world. Christians do not.

      Report Post »  
    • lukerw
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:51pm

      He wants people to Think out of the Box… but requires them to Enter his Box in order to Think!

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • MontaraMissileMan
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 11:18pm

      I would hope the faithful would see this as an honest critique of what drives people away from their pews. Unfortunately I see the same thing as I always see when a story like this appears on The Blaze.

      Report Post »  
    • SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 8:47am

      @ MONTAR….Often times the nature of truth, especially when it comes to dealing with the sinfulness of individuals is offensive. In fact, at the end of Jesus’ ministry shortly before going through his passion and crucifixion pretty much all but the 12 disciples left him stating that his teachings were too hard. While you are right there is most definitely a certain humility that all Christians should possess, knowing that but for the grace of God go I, the message in and of itself is offensive as seen in the anger, hatred, and ultimate murder of Jesus. Thank you in advance…

      Report Post » SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING  
    • THERAPTURCOMES
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 10:19am

      This is the apostate EMERGENT church warned of in these the last days and it is sweeping the world like a tidal wave.

      Report Post »  
    • MontaraMissileMan
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 12:32pm

      @Rapture: The same has been said for every single emerging church since the first split of the Christian faith. I’ll believe it when the 4 horsemen arrive. Until then, I don’t care about the supposed signs. The problem with prophecy is that it is far too easy to misinterpret. The same lines can also describe the emergence of Islam or even Scientology. So take that as what it’s worth. In the meantime, I’m going to continue living my life as best I can and take care of my family. If we are in the end times… well who cares, there’s nothing we can do to stop it.

      If we are in the end times, why should we be worried? If you’re confirmed in your faith why are you afraid?

      Personally, since I lean towards Deism, I don’t think our little speck of dust orbiting an unremarkable star in an unremarkable arm of an unremarkable galaxy is really all that important to the creator of our vast beyond all comprehension universe. But that’s just my view on that…

      Report Post »  
    • MontaraMissileMan
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 12:38pm

      @Sleazy, I‘m not exactly sure what you’re saying in your comment. Can you elaborate more please?

      Report Post »  
  • ed_mann
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:49pm

    This heretic has given me plenty to talk about with my Christian brothers. We took the list yesterday are ripped it apart with scripture. Now i get another list we can do the same with tomorrow. The only thing in yesterdays list we agreed on was #10, the rest was easy to demolish in light of scripture.
    #8 He must think Jesus was morally blind as well. (Matthew 19:4; Mark 10:6).

    I will have more fun with this list later.

    Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:39pm

      Today he is correct on #3 and #9 and #8, while true, is probably not the best thing for a Christian to say depending on the audience.

      As for the rest…And yesterday’s list…Christians can recognize this guy for what he is. The Holy Spirit will open the eyes of those who will choose Christ. Do not worry about all the false gospels, those with ears to hear and eyes to see will recognize truth.

      God bless.

      Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:51pm

      9 is obvious, I guess I better explain #3. Simply bad theology. God created angels and man. Man does not become an angel. However, the fact that Piatt says nothing about that but simply rails that he cannot know what happens after someone dies from this life only proves he is not a Christian at all…No matter what he may call himself…

      Report Post »  
    • HorseCrazy
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:04pm

      ed after reading yesturdays and today’s lists I am convinced this man has not ever completely read his Bible and when he is referring to “don’t comment unless you are a bible scholar” he should be reflecting that portion inwardly. He has no understanding and will poison many with his nonsense. Unfortunately some will believe this and go with it. We can pray they all will wake up to God‘s truth but one thing I am tired of and I mean really sick and tired of is these pastor’s who try to be edgy and or provacative. Church is holy and needs to be kept as such. It needs to be seperate from the world‘s tactics of division and speak the truth from God’s word not man’s madness. Prayers to those who attend this false teachers church.

      Report Post »  
  • JasonGoldtrap
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:48pm

    This guy sounds like a host on MSNBC rather than a preacher. Thomas Jefferson, hello? Actually read what Thomas Jefferson wrote instead of read what liberal commentators think he wrote. The Founding Fathers did not have Muslim names for a reason.

    Report Post » JasonGoldtrap  
    • pdw
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:11pm

      The problem with some of these statements is not if we can refute them using scriptures but will those we are speaking with respond favorably. Paul said you have to fed them the milk before they can eat of the eat. In other words, faith, repentance, and baptism before you can teach them Gospel principals.

      Report Post »  
    • SimpleTruths
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 11:44pm

      You are aware that Jefferson wrote his own version of the Bible aren’t you? He was a deist at best and probably more likely an agnostic.

      Report Post » SimpleTruths  
  • Kaoscontrol
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:45pm

    Piatt’s smugness and arrogant pride is more offensive than anything on his list.

    Report Post » Kaoscontrol  
    • Hollywood
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:56pm

      Agreed, Based on his NO NOs’ I can tell he is not preaching the Gospel at all. If one’s sin is not admitted, and one repents of it,there can be no salvation.. Homosexuality is but one of many sins. His many theological NO NO’s,and positions, are simply too stupid to comment further on.

      Report Post » Hollywood  
    • LeFaux Jew
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:00pm

      Who says that there is no forgiveness of sin without repenting?
      Christians say the same thing about blood sacrifice, even when Jesus said God forgave without sacrifice.
      That is not a gospel of grace (your sins are forgiven) message at all.
      True repentance opens a person up to knowing God who has already forgiven you.
      Christianity is sometimes a hodge podge of belief systems.
      On any given day I can preach the Jesus Gospel to christians and they will deny it.

      Report Post »  
  • Kurt Madey
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:43pm

    Number 6 Thomas Jefferson? If he‘s implying Thomas Jefferson wasn’t a Christian he’s flat out wrong. TJ founded the University of Virginia, trans-denominational, and “Significantly, thirty years earlier, Jefferson had begun actively promoting Christian non-preferentialism in his famous 1786 Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom, which disestablished the Anglican Church as the only legally recognized and established denomination in Virginia and instead placed all Christian denominations on an even footing.” -Wall Builders

    Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:07pm

      I think Thomas Jefferson was accused of being an Atheist by some people(mainly political opponents) at the time.

      While he may have “followed” Jesus’s teachings, some of his writings definitely seem to infer that he called into question the supernatural claims of the Bible.

      ““And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.” —Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 ”

      “”Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.”"

      “”The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves…these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.”"

      SOURCE: Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:20pm

      I think where both “sides(if you will call them that)” are so interested in proving their side is correct, that they may miss the big picture.

      They will take quotes that fit their viewpoint and will use those, not checking to see its veracity
      They will then take quotes that don’t fit their viewpoint and will not accept them, or find some way to spin it to fit their agenda.

      This is especially true since the invention of the internet where it’s easy for something to get taken out of context and passed around to people who have the same view point as “proof” and to show how stupid and uninformed the other side is. Some people do this knowingly to prove their point, some people do it without knowing it.

      This issue has become so polarized that I think many people don‘t realize that it’s possible that the foundation is a mixture of everything.

      Christians see “their America” slipping away, and are trying to take it back.

      Non Christians may see this as the time to finally stick it to the dominate religion of our country.

      While I don‘t think it’s true to say “all of our founders were Christians” or “This is a Christian nation”(because as I said above, I don’t know exactly what this means). I think something we all can agree on is that our founders(well most of them) valued religious freedom to worship or not worship as you see fit and they did their best trying to create a system of governance that would support that.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:30pm

      I listed these quotes

      “”Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.””

      “”The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves…these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.””

      SOURCE: Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

      Upon reviewing and trying to find the actual source, I was unable to verify if “SOURCE: Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat”was from a well known and accepted book, speech, or anything else that could help determine the veracity behind the quotes, therefore they can be ignored.

      My bad.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:47pm

      Hey Mod,

      Is “veracity” your new word for the day?

      I noticed that you left a rather snide and sniping reply to someone in another story earlier today.

      What’s that all about?

      You are not living up to your name, Mod.

      Remember?…………”ergo, moderation is best”

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:55pm

      @THERIGHTSOFBILLY

      If you remember it well enough to comment to me about it, why not tell me what it is I said? Why do you just accuse me of something without evidence or proof?

      Do you not want to give me a chance to defend my supposed statements?

      Please tell me what I said, I am interested in seeing what you define as “snide.”

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:25pm

      ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:27am

      @RAFA2DESIGN

      Hahaha, now I’ve heard it all.

      http://www.theblaze.com/stories/are-you-ready-for-the-massive-bible-museum-being-planned-for-washington-d-c/

      Sounds a bit snide to me Mod. The poster was not even talking to you, but yet you felt the need to mock.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:53pm

      @Billy

      Oh that?

      I‘m sorry that I can’t see, “Many don’t realize that if it were not for the Bible, we wouldn’t even be here typing these comments.” without bursting into laughter.

      I think that’s an odd one to point out though, I have said much worse things. Then again, I have pointed out your fallacy of anytime I make a “less than moderate” comment that it proves that I don’t practice moderation.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 6:02pm

      Mod,

      The posters comment has nothing to do with the fact that you were snide. Which is something that you usually deny being.

      But at least this time you were honest and admit to having said worse things.

      Bravo

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 7:03pm

      @Billy
      “This time?”

      I‘ve said before that I’ve said worse things. You have no argument here Billy.

      Report Post »  
  • mountainmover101
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:42pm

    I’ve never heard of this guy. He sounds sort of like Rick Warren. I think he is trying to be hip and cool. Christianity is not about being hip and cool. It is about obedience, humility and service and not bending over backwards fit into the world’s mold. I don’t know if this guy is a Christian or not. I am not equiped to make that determination. It seems however that he espouses some beliefs that are not Biblical. I, therefore, will not put too much stock in anything he says.

    Report Post »  
    • ed_mann
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:02pm

      Christian no, heretic yes.
      2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

      Report Post »  
    • King David
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:17pm

      I dont think he is being hip and cool. I has a person I worked with years ago that wanted to go to school to become a preacher so he could lie to people about what was in the bible.

      Report Post »  
  • Gypsy123
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:42pm

    Just looked up his association with Willow Creek Church and the Emergent churches. He is not christian so he is on the other side for sure.

    Report Post » Gypsy123  
  • Gypsy123
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:39pm

    Christians should not associate with demons. And he is trying to influence christianity so you know what that makes him.

    Report Post » Gypsy123  
  • jman-6
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:39pm

    As to point 7 Im glad i never met him!

    Report Post »  
  • Eric_The_Red_State
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:32pm

    A Muslim – an Illegal Immigrant and a Soclialist walk into a bar – the bartender says –

    What will you have Mr. President?

    Report Post » Eric_The_Red_State  
    • jman-6
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:37pm

      lol

      Report Post »  
    • Shifty6
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:56pm

      that is fantastic

      Report Post »  
    • JoeInOKC
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:40pm

      That‘s funny right there I don’t care who you are that’s funny right there.“ ”Lord I apologize, for talkin’ ’bout the president being illegal, and muslim, and be with the starving pigmies in new Guinea amen!” -Larry the Cable Guy.

      Seems appropo, n’est pas?

      Report Post » JoeInOKC  
  • Hammerdown
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:32pm

    Do I agree with him? I don’t agree with The Blaze posting more of these.

    Report Post »  
  • jman-6
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:30pm

    This guy is a total joke. I will address 8. This was not incest as GOD made Eve from Adams rib not from his loins. And yes GOD created Adam n Eve not adam n steve. This fella really needs us to pray for him to come to the saving knowledge of Jesus. My bible warns not to bid people like this God speed!

    Report Post »  
    • SumoMoses
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:42pm

      Biology 101 refresher:

      The DNA in your ribs is the same as the DNA in your “loins”. Either way, you have to ask, who did their children procreate with? There’s incest going on there nomatter how you interpret it.

      Report Post »  
    • Locked
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:48pm

      “This was not incest as GOD made Eve from Adams rib not from his loins.”

      Let’s assume that incest is only with family members. Fine, Adam and Eve were not incestuous (I suppose it would be like having sex with your clone, or something).

      Their children most certainly had to be incestuous, thus proving his point anyway.

      Report Post »  
    • Kaoscontrol
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:51pm

      You atheists think you are so clever with the whole “incest” argument. Read your bible– Incest wasn’t forbidden until the Mosaic Law was given much later. Stupid atheists…what an ignorant bunch of idiots.

      Report Post » Kaoscontrol  
    • Texasboyscout
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:56pm

      No, Adam/Eve’s “spawn”, as you call them, did not mate with each other. They were NOT the only people on the earth at the time. Remember Cain went off to “the land of Nod” and found a wife. Where did THEY come from?

      Report Post »  
    • antitheist
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:59pm

      Yes kaos, and what a disgusting and evil compilation the bible is for allowing such a disgusting act to take place unpunished. We could also assume that homosexuality was also unpunished and that it may have taken place.

      Report Post » antitheist  
    • antitheist
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:03pm

      Texas, they probably came from the planet Tataouine and had bastard children with the Nephilim and non-cannon jinn.

      Report Post » antitheist  
    • hjbones
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:05pm

      You should also remember that Adam and Eve probably had a near perfect genetic structure. That would mean that genetic disorders wouldn’t be much of a problem when their children “mated”. Those disorders that make having children with close relatives dangerous today would come later due to mutations and things.

      Report Post » hjbones  
    • steviegirl23
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:07pm

      The law not to marry a sibling did not come into practice until the time of Moses. Of course, Adam‘s and Eve’s children married each other….or their neices and nephews. The chromosomal abnormalities and other issues that come from marrying a close relative, were not really an issue yet because it was only the second generation. As more generations were born, there was opportunity for defect and flaws to emerge.

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    • ed_mann
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:18pm

      @Texasboyscout
      I don’t know what Bible you are reading but Cain did not go off to Nod to find a wife. He knew his wife and had a son Enoch, which he named a city after. Genesis 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

      The only other people were Adam and Eve’s kids.

      Report Post »  
    • ed_mann
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:24pm

      This is covered in Leviticus 18.

      Report Post »  
    • SumoMoses
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:49pm

      @KAOS

      Ah, gotcha. So you openly admit that biblical creation myth involves incest, it’s just no big deal because incest was cool back then. Ya know, until god changed his mind laster down the road, that is.

      Understood loud and clear.

      Report Post »  
    • Weaver
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:18pm

      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air…….27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 31. And God saw every thing thar he had made and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
      Genesis 2 :2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made and he rested………
      Genesis 2: 7 AND THE LORD GOD FORMED MAN OF THE DUST OF THE GROUND AMD BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE AND MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL.

      Now for all you Bible Scholars…….all the races of humanity were created on the six day, God rested on the seventh, then Adam and Eve were created on the EIGHTH DAY.

      Report Post » Weaver  
    • black9897
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:45pm

      @WEAVER

      You have misunderstood these verses.

      You’re under the impression that in Gen 1:27 when God says “mankind” it means he created all the people right then and there. That is simply not true. Chapter one gives the chronology of creation, while chapter two provides specific details about the creation. So while yes, “mankind” does mean the human race, it did NOT mean God created ALL people right then. It meant Adam and Eve, the first humans.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • Alessandre
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:25pm

      @Antitheist: thank you for your honesty. you are opposed to God, against Him. it’s interesting, you‘re name means you believe in God because you can’t oppose someone whom you do not acknowledge as real but if I could send you a cookie, I would because you are the 1st anti-theist I’ve encountered who is willing to acknowledge who you are & what you are actually doing, opposing God. there’s hope! (Jacob fought w/ God too.)

      Report Post »  
    • holy ghostbuster
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 10:31pm

      @KAOSCONTROL – “Incest wasn’t forbidden until the Mosaic Law was given much later.” What a moral god!

      Report Post » holy ghostbuster  
    • holy ghostbuster
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 10:33pm

      Maybe Adam and Eve’s children screwed the talking snake? After all, we evolved from reptiles.

      Report Post » holy ghostbuster  
  • ChildofJesus
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:29pm

    I don’t agree with #5. why? Because I was born with as burgers syndrome and for 24 years of my life have thought it wasn’t fair and it was a curse. It‘s still difficult for me some days but I’ve come to see why he allowed it for me to trust and lean on him more because I‘m weaker and in areas and so I could bless others with with the strengths he’s given me

    Report Post »  
    • SumoMoses
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:46pm

      So just because you personally were able to overcome your disadvantages, you assume EVERYONE can?

      What about infants born with their hearts outside of their bodies who die within a matter of hours?
      What about people who commit suicide as a result of their mental illnesses?

      That’s the problem with christians, they always cherry-pick anecdotes that support their beliefs, and ignore the plethora of other cases that would indicate the contrary.

      Report Post »  
    • antitheist
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:08pm

      Sumomoses, if such people can’t overcome their own misfortune it is because they are lazy and socialists. They would be fine if they would just pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

      Report Post » antitheist  
    • The Bulletproof Patriot
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:37pm

      @SUMOMOSES

      …that’s the problem with non-christians, they always cherry-pick anecdotes that support their beliefs, and ignore the plethora of other cases that would indicate the contrary.

      http://www.thebulletproofpatriot.com

      Report Post »  
    • LeFaux Jew
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 7:32pm

      I am sorry to hear of your troubles….christians used to use # 5 on me too, after my daughter was diagnosed with brain cancer…and they still kept it up when my brother tried to committ suicide on her birthday.
      Its a good thing I never told them about being forced to watch my sister get raped when I was 6 years old. I ran away in terror while I was chased through a creek with a slime ball telling me he was going to slit my throat when he caught me (God placed my feet on the rocks, and he fell).
      .

      Report Post »  
    • Alessandre
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:47pm

      “The Lord never gives someone more than they can handle” usually refers to 1 Cor 10:13 “God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.”

      while searching for the citation, I found this which is applicable particularly for those who scoff at God: The truth is that God gives us more than we can handle all of the time. On purpose. Is He being mean? Does He care? If He’s God, why doesn’t He enter in and take the pain, and stress away? Or give us the ability to do it in our own strength? Because it is only when we cant handle it anymore that we run to Him, really run to Him… and He becomes everything we need and more.

      I’ve faced many horrors & difficulties in my life. for those who are interested, you can read about some of them here: http://heirsinhope.blogspot.com/ (start at the 1st post & work forward – I include all kinds of topics on my blog). there have been many times when I don’t want to hear about not being tempted (or tested) beyond my limits & other times when that is exactly what I need to hear. it depends on how raw I am, what I’m facing, whether I’m engaging in drama or really hurting. #5 is something I’d probably only say to a close friend unless I am moved by the Holy Spirit to say it. a Christian belongs to God & speaks as He directs.

      Report Post »  
  • skiz
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:29pm

    So much stuff, I dont know where to begin and it would take a book to reply to this garbage! First of all this IS a christian nation, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! “Thomas Jefferson anybody” What a dunce, Thomas Jefferson was a christian not an athiest like most people falsely think. Look at all his writings he talked about God all the time in them. Secondly~ if you dont ask someone if they are saved, you wont know. I dont get the harm in it.Next we have the idiotic notion that “Jesus was happy to keep church and state separate”. Giving to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and giving to God what is God’s” has nothing to do with seperation of church and state. I cant continue. This is just completely moronic. Beleive what you want me and mine are covered in the blood of the lamb (Jesus to you evil ones)

    Report Post » skiz  
    • UpholderOftheConstitution
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:47pm

      I agree he was a believer in God, but he was a Deist. Which a Deist believes in God but believes that God does not interact in our lives (this of course is a simple explanation, so don’t run me into the ground explaining to me all the nuances of a Deist, people!).

      But Jefferson did believe in having faith in God and asking for His guidance in the construction of this great Nation (sorry Obama it is still great and it will always be the epitome of a superior nation, so suck it). Which kind of contradicts him being a Deist, right? Well not exactly. Jefferson was a Deist to a certain degree but he believed that God directs men for a common good, but does not interact with a person individually. See in his mind America was a country given to man by God to create a great country. Jefferson held church services in the Capitol building thus we have than damnable letter about separation of church and state, and if Jefferson was alive today he would throw one of his famous outrages about our government excluding anything religious from public site!

      So in a large nutshell I agree with you that we are and have always been a Christian nation. There is no dispute in that fact (and yes it is a fact liberals, you cannot rewrite someones owns words! while you try to rewrite history!). So God Bless and this Christian Piatt is a jackass know-it-all about nothing and should stop calling himself a Christian and call himself a Buddhist. Gosh what a moron! Sorry but he is, this is trash!

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:55pm

      You made a bunch of claims and provided no evidence especially about our nation and our founders.

      It seems to me a lot of people fail to understand the difference between the pilgrims(who were undoubtedly Christians) who traveled here to escape persecution, and our founding fathers(who were composed of Theists, Deists, Atheists, free thinkers and men who were well educated in different forms of philosophy) who wrote the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, etc.

      Right now I’m going through a book called, “The Faith of our Fathers : What America’s Founders Really Believed.” It’s interesting and insightful. I can list off some well known quotes from our Founders or you can look them up yourself.

      Read up on why the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was penned, it may surprise you.

      Secondly, what does it mean to be a “Christian nation”? A nation of all Christians? A nation of mostly Christians?(would this imply that America is a “white nation” since white people make up he majority? A nation that respects only Christianity? A nation that gives special privilege to Christianity?

      To say that we’re a Christian nation denies the melting pot idea that is America.

      I suggest you look up some dates.
      Search when “Under God” was put into our pledge
      Search when “In God we Trust” became our official motto and got put on our paper money.

      Report Post »  
    • UpholderOftheConstitution
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:17pm

      ModerationIsBest – please insight us to this book that has given you the answers to what our Founding Fathers truly thought about religion. I would like to here it. You talk about it but yet provide no facts behind it. Basically what you have accused another of doing.

      A Christian nation is talking about our value system being rooted in the Judea-Christian beliefs to build the nations law ethics. But yet why am I explaining this to you, for you have all the answers. It is not talking about the ratio of Christians in the nation, it is about the Founding Fathers belief in this Judea-Christian structure brought forth from the Bible. Benjamin Franklin (who yes was not a signer) wanted prayer before every meeting because even him, who was a huge Deists, believed in the power of prayer (which contradicts his Deist belief) for the forming of this nation.

      The significant difference to our Revolution and the French was our belief system in Judea-Christian beliefs. While the French Revolution was rooted in humanism which many scholars believe led to its demise. Why you ask? Because ultimately our Founding Fathers understood that this belief system had structure while humanism bucks at a per-ordained structure. So in closing this is why we call America a Christian nation.

      I would advise putting down this book and reading an actual history book that has proven the test of time before you go all hog wild with your statements. Enjoy the history lesson.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:41pm

      @Upholder

      “…You talk about it but yet provide no facts behind it. Basically what you have accused another of doing.”

      Are you seriously making this argument? Here is verbatim what I said about the book, “Right now I’m going through a book called, “The Faith of our Fathers : What America’s Founders Really Believed.” It’s interesting and insightful. I can list off some well known quotes from our Founders or you can look them up yourself.”

      I said nothing about the book, except I am reading it. Good one there.

      “A Christian nation is talking about our value system being rooted in the Judea-Christian beliefs to build the nations law ethics. But yet why am I explaining this to you, for you have all the answers” Again, another straw man. I never said anything of the like.

      “Benjamin Franklin (who yes was not a signer) wanted prayer before every meeting because even him, who was a huge Deists, believed in the power of prayer (which contradicts his Deist belief) for the forming of this nation.” What does this prove? I’m an atheist, but I don’t care about prayer. You just showed that while Franklin was a deist(not a Christian), that he still believed in the power of prayer(Christian-like). So he had a different idea of what religion, belief, spirituality, Christianity was from common day people.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:51pm

      @Upholder

      “”I would advise putting down this book and reading an actual history book that has proven the test of time before you go all hog wild with your statements. Enjoy the history lesson.”

      What statements did I make again?

      I think in my entire post, the things I asked the person to do were
      Talked about the difference between the pilgrims and the founders(not in the book)
      Read the book themselves if they want
      Look up the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom(which I knew before the book)
      Look up some things regarding our motto, pledge, etc(isn’t in the book)

      I didn’t talk about ANY of the claims in the book outside of me calling them “insightful” and “interesting.”

      I also just said that saying we’re a Christian nation goes against the idea of the melting pot.

      “A Christian nation is talking about our value system being rooted in the Judea-Christian beliefs to build the nations law ethics. But yet why am I explaining this to you, for you have all the answers. ”

      People take “a Christian nation” to mean different things, that’s the whole point of my questioning. Also to say that the Judea-Christian beliefs “build the nations law ethics” is hilarious.

      I commend you for creating a gigantic straw man and then thoroughly knocking it down. Good job.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:11pm

      “This review is from: The Faiths of Our Fathers: What America’s Founders Really Believed (Paperback)
      Mapp’s The Faiths of our Fathers is a light read, appropriate for high school students perhaps. But the editing is poor, factual assertions are inaccurate, and all too often the analysis is weak and deep understanding absent.”

      http://www.amazon.com/The-Faiths-Our-Fathers-Americas/product-reviews/0742531155/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_three?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addThreeStar

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 5:48pm

      @Billy
      Your point?

      You really do make me laugh Billy.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 6:06pm

      I think the point is rather obvious……..is it not?

      At least I think it is.

      To most, anyway.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 6:59pm

      @Billy

      I read books because I find them interesting. Some things are so difficult to prove as infallible(which is why Christians love the Bible so much, because they get to claim that with no evidence).

      I am finding this book interesting, as did I find that guys review of the book(of which he still gave 3 out of 5 stars).

      Let me go through what you are inferring as negative things for this book.

      “Mapp’s The Faiths of our Fathers is a light read” So that’s a bad thing? I was at the book store buying a different book, saw this in the “Under $6 section” and picked it up.

      One of the claims the reviewer makes of the author is not going into more detail about Jefferson’s personal beliefs. Well he only spent 19 pages on a complex man who had complex ideas. He covers 11 founding fathers in 143 pages. Obviously this is by no means the DEFINITIVE book on all their personal beliefs.

      I don’t know why he(author) never explicitly said that Jefferson was a Unitarian, but it cold be implied by his belief in God but not the trinity.

      I too noticed a spelling error or two(or what I thought were spelling errors). At two different points the author mentions a guy name “Rev Mr. Hiter“ but then mentions the name ”Rev Mr. Hite” Maybe it was a different person, maybe it was a spelling error, I really don’t know. I don‘t disagree that it looks foolish to have errors in published books but we’re all prone to mistakes(especially when it comes to names).

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 7:05pm

      @Billy

      I find this book interesting, I don’t accept it as gospel. And without reading it, i might not have learned some things I might have otherwise not learned(including the difference of opinion from the reviewer). Some historian might come along and prove that some of the things that the reviewer claimed is wrong(notice in his review he didn’t site any sources?)

      Either way, both points of view are interesting.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 7:45pm

      Mod,

      You also make me laugh……a lot.

      When you continually miss the point, and ignore the obvious, (just like you did last week with my link to the urban dictionary), is it intentional, or unintentional?

      The answer to that question will help me greatly with my future responses to you.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:08pm

      @Billy

      Wait, is this another one of those times where you ask a question, and I answer it and then you‘ll say it’s rhetorical? I can never tell with you anymore.

      Once again you continually ask me questions and I continually answer them.

      I ask you questions and you claim, “You already know my views” and refuse to answer my questions.

      It is clear you have no interest in expressing your own views, you just want to troll my posts, ask me questions, receive my answers, then claim your question is rhetorical and then refuse to answer my questions about you.

      You showed a lot about yourself when you knew I wasn’t going to respond to your posts, yet you still kept commenting at me and directing your “questions.”

      What’s funny is you tell me that I “miss the point.” I ask in what way I am missing your point(actually trying to understand where you are coming from), and then you don’t respond with any evidence or proof, in fact you usually don’t respond at all.

      I wonder if you’ll answer my question here or like usual you will just move onto the next thread I comment on, ask me a question, get my response and then say again, “You miss the point.”

      Admit it Billy, you have no point.

      At least some other people on here respond to me in substance and express some kind of knowledge. You just try to score “points.” Notice you come to this thread, to bring up something I said in an unrelated article.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:34pm

      What did I show about myself when I continued to respond to you, even when you were not responding back?

      Determination?
      Tenacity?
      Doggedness?
      Persistence?

      All admirable traits in my mind.

      Besides, it worked, didn’t it?

      Now tell the truth, you didn’t click my link to the urban dictionary last week, did you?

      Because if you did, my snide and sniping joke was more than obvious.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 8:40pm

      Hi Billy,

      Poor mod…. Some people never learn : (

      Off topic, You might enjoy this movie.
      http://shop.history.com/secrets-of-body-language-dvd/detail.php?p=73929

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • cariboodragon
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:23pm

      so if you do not believe in your GOD you are evil? My GOD wears snake skin boots and is the one true GOD and you and yours are actually the evil ones following a weak, selfish and insane GOD.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 11:19pm

      @Billy

      Man I got you pegged Billy.

      It is clear as day that you have no interest in holding a conversation. You are just here to continually bug me. As seen on other posts, I will try to hold a conversation with someone else, and what do you do? Come in here with the, “wait, why aren’t you being rude like you use to be?” No substance, no valuable input.

      I once again asked you that if I am truly missing your point, to re-iterate it so that I could respond. You once again, just asked me another question, didn’t state your claim and move on. You have no point, none at all.

      I’m done with you. You’re wasting my time.

      Feel free to keep posting to me like you use to, I’m not going to respond to your nonsense.

      I will watch as your so called tenacity leads you to wasting time off your life responding to someone who you know isn’t going to respond.

      Farewell.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on July 13, 2012 at 12:22am

      Au contraire,

      I mostly point out when you ARE rude.

      And I do so mainly because you usually claim that you are not rude.

      You say you want only to have civil discourse, and then you pounce with your usual rancor.

      I gave up attempting logical debate with you long ago. As others have pointed out previously, you keep moving the goal post.

      I don’t stalk you Mod, but once a week or so I stumble upon something of yours, and have to interject with my thoughts and questions. The questions may sometimes be rhetorical, but they most often are designed to expose, or illuminate something or other. That’s how I roll.

      Whether you respond, or not, is your choice.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
  • ozchambers
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:27pm

    Am I allowed to say “WHY DON’T YOU SHUT YOUR BIG YAPPER!!” cuz that’s kinda fun to say sometimes.

    Report Post » ozchambers  
  • SenatorLoser
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:27pm

    Wow if he doesnt believe the bible then why is he even a pastor? Why even claim to be christian if you are not going to follow anything that Christ taught?

    Report Post »  
  • bartleby2012
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:26pm

    After reading the second list of ten, I thought of Romans 1:16. “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God to everyone who believes….”

    And after he gets around to studying the Bible, maybe he can pick up a copy of David Barton’s new book to correct the fallacy recited in #6 about Jefferson’s faith (or lack thereof)

    Report Post »  
    • bartleby2012
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:35pm

      oops…. “power of God *for salvation* to everyone who believes….”

      Report Post »  
  • Suzanne912
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:24pm

    There are only two groups of people… those who believe the Bible is the inspired (God breathed) Word of God and those who dont….. I would put him in the latter group…..

    Report Post »  
    • God_Is_Not
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:21pm

      According to your statement, that would make him correct. Although, I get the impression you’re not intentionally trying to add credibility to his opinions.

      Report Post »  
  • PoliticalTs.com
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:24pm

    This author is taking to many biblical statements out of context, a very common thing to do, especially with people who are trying to convince us that the bible should be relegated to a secondary status.

    Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 4:25pm

      Can you please list the Bible statements he quoted out of context?

      Granted I didn‘t read the entire list but I didn’t see many(if any at all) actual scriptural verses in there.

      I think that’s kind of the guys point.

      At least in my experience, many Christians use the dogma that they are taught in their church or see other Christians use, and then apply it to their life.

      I have many close Christian friends, and I hear these arguments made over and over. I also don’t consider my friends “dumb Christians.” They read the Bible everyday, they are very devote and are also pretty smart outside of the confines of their religion, yet I still hear them use these arguments to defend their faith.

      Report Post »  
    • God_Is_Not
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 10:37pm

      The vast majority of the time, ‘out of context’ = ‘does not meet my personal expectations’.

      Report Post »  
  • 00gabooga
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:23pm

    Considering the vast majority of people who say these things are not Theologians, nor are the people they are saying these things to, I can agree with the spirit of this list. But I’ve never heard my Priest say any of these things, so I think it’s unfair to consider someone someone who does an accurate representation of all Christians. There is a difference between an authorized representative and a practitioner.

    Report Post » 00gabooga  
  • jungle J
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:23pm

    you can make the purest best tasting cookies but add a booger to them and you are eating boogers…like it or not…the sane understand…the “cute” are dangerous…

    Report Post »  
  • Gonzo
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:17pm

    I think this guy would be happier if we just didn’t talk about Christ at all.

    Report Post » Gonzo  
  • kickagrandma
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:16pm

    It’s not about us. It is about HIM.

    While the author makes some valid point, others are erroneous and misleading to anyone who is not a Christian. He’d be better suited to having his discussions among friends rather than publishing books which appeal to men to makes us all feel better about ourselves.

    Report Post »  
  • MeteoricLimbo
    Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:14pm

    Never say never….again

    Report Post » MeteoricLimbo  
    • JRook
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:23pm

      “America was founded as a Christian nation. Honestly, I find it hard to believe we are still having this conversation, but here we are. Anyone with a cursory understanding of history understands that we were founded on the principle of religious liberty – not just the liberty to be a Christian” A wonderful notion being promoted by the conservative propaganda outlets (hint), along with many other self serving revelations about the founding fathers and what they intended in the constitution. Oh wait, sounds a lot like the point Piatt is making. Selective referencing and self serving interpretation of history and historical writings. On the constitution, best left up to the SCOTUS. Certainly not people who miss-quote their own religious text.

      Report Post »  
    • jman-6
      Posted on July 12, 2012 at 3:34pm

      jrook- thats exactly what we need to do leave everything up to SCOTUS. stupid is stupid does. nuff said

      Report Post »  
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