AZ Gov. Signs Bill Allowing Bible Classes in Public Schools
- Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:21am by
Billy Hallowell
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Photo via Flickr user Erwin Vogelaar
Over the past few years, Arizona has become a hotbed of domestic controversy. The ongoing debate over the state’s immigration policies will now be joined by an equally-controversial decision: The inclusion of Bible classes in public school curriculum.
Back in January, The Blaze first told you about Arizona’s consideration of a bill that would ensure that the Bible found its way into public and charter schools. Rather than using proselytizing as the basis for the law, proponents have argued that the Bible’s historical significance warrants its study in the classroom. Well, it seems these individuals have won the debate — at least for the time being.
This week, Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer made it official and signed the controversial bill into law. Arizona is now the sixth state to offer courses in Biblical studies. Now, it’s important to note — before critics find themselves getting worked up over the legislative decision — that the classes aren’t mandatory. Additionally, the elective courses teach students about the Bible’s history as it pertains to its influence on Western civilization (this is starkly different than, say, preaching based on the holy book’s tenets).
Students will learn about the information present in the Old and New Testaments, the history that is recorded in them and the influence that the book has had on law, literature, art, music and cultural values. Despite this historical and academic focus, some groups are still unhappy with the bill’s passage.
The Christian Post has more about this new coursework:
Sponsored by State Representative Terri Proud, House Bill 2563 was passed by a 21 to 9 vote in the state Senate last Thursday and signed by Brewer on Tuesday.
According to HB 2563, “A school district or charter school may offer an elective course pertaining to how the Bible has influenced western culture for pupils in grades nine through twelve.”
“A teacher who instructs a course offered under this section in its appropriate historical context and in good faith shall be immune from civil liability and disciplinary action,” reads the bill.
“This bill is not about improving academic achievement; it’s about introducing religious indoctrination into the schools and currying favor with conservative religious voters,” Americans United for the Separation of Church and State spokesperson Joe Conn told The Christian Post. ”I think most public schools will decide not to offer Bible courses. They are already strapped for funds, so I doubt if they’ll want to use scarce resources to intervene in such a controversial topic.”
Conn says that, because there are many interpretations of the Bible, there may be constitutional and religious conflicts when it comes to trying to parse through the information to teach about the book in a more historical light. But State Representative Terri Proud, the bill’s original sponsor, disagrees.
“Many professors from various universities like Harvard, Yale etc. have stated that biblical knowledge is a key factor to a successful education,” Proud explained, according to the Post. ”As the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly said: ‘[It] might well be said that one’s education is not complete without a study of comparative religion, or the history of religion and its relationship to the advancement of civilization.’”
(H/T: The Christian Post)
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Comments (153)
Prepare for the 2nd Coming
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:55amThank you Gov. Brewer, for simply allowing Americans to make their own choices!
Report Post »HorseCrazy
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:37amexcept now we will have commies distorting the Bible to further their agenda with our children. I woudn‘t in a million years trust a public school teacher to speak intelligently about the Bible’s role in America since the majority of teachers hate both America and the Bible.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:50am“Students will learn about the information present in the Old and New Testaments, the history that is recorded in them and the influence that the book has had on law, literature, art, music and cultural values.” Should prove to be very influential. As the saying goes, “if you actually pay attention to the historical record and context in the seminary you will graduate an atheist.
Report Post »oneshiner
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:21amGOOD! Thank you Gov. Brewer. We need more brave people like you who aren‘t afraid to buck the system for what’s good for America and our inherent beliefs.
Report Post »jhrusky
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 12:24pmI now have to start seriously thinking about relocating from this Union/Nazi-run state (Wisconsin) to Arizona.
Report Post »VanceUppercut
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 12:40pm@Prepare for the 2nd Coming
What about American’s choice to take ethnic studies, which Arizona recently banned, IIRC?
Report Post »db321
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 1:16pmThank you Gov. Brewer – Focus on last book of the Bible – it is a great Lesson of things to come for America!
Report Post »wzanesdad
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 1:47pmJHRUSKY
Report Post »Please do consider it…..Arizona welcomes any freedom loving americans from any state…you won’t regret it.
Clive
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 2:39pmjan brewer has the brains, and face, of a baseball mitt.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 3:08pm“GOOD! Thank you Gov. Brewer. We need more brave people like you who aren‘t afraid to buck the system for what’s good for America and our inherent beliefs.”
buck the system, break the law, ignore the Constitution. whatever floats your boat. hey, policies like these work in Afghanistan and Iran, why not try them here? oh wait, wrong religion. they’re evil!!!! we’ll teach the TRUE God.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 3:14pm@phillyatheist That’s a load of crap. Muslim countries DON‘T offer schools the option to have an elective course on the History of the Bible’s influence in our Western Civilization. That there, what you’re spouting, is fear mongering and a great misrepresentation.
Report Post »ICEDRAGONNITE
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 3:58pmIt’s a start. The primer was the bible at one time here in the USA. What happened? Liberals.
Report Post »mils
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 4:08pmgotta watch those teachers down there….better keep the eyes and ears open WIIIIIDE…orf Jesus will end up being Mexican and fightin at the alamo…
Report Post »I love Jan !!!
Bikkiboo
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 6:31pmAs a retired teacher, I take offense at HORSECRAZY’s “…the majority of teachers hate America and the Bible. I am an Evangelical Christian and patriotic American. Here in fly-over country, many people are both, and most teachers are doing the best they can with the students the parents send us, and with the rules the government sets down (don’t get me started on THAT!). Our state requires a Constitution Day every September, teaching about it; our system requires a flag in every room, the Pledge said daily, and a “moment of silence” – which I explained to my students could be used to think about their day, their friends, or to pray. I have taught comparative religions to my special ed middle schoolers, including the 5 main religions, as part of our World History. Unfortunately, I was uninformed at that time of Islam’s true beliefs. Today, I would be much more complete, tho’ the 72 virgins stuff did come out via our current events studies. Maybe I’m unique, but I don’t think so. In my experience, Teacher’s Unions (they’re called Associations here) did not dictate content. The state has its standards to follow, and teachers are somewhat flexible in HOW they teach them. Most of us are indeed patriotic, and at the least have decent moral standards.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:01pmAs a passionate conservative Christian I beg you not to do this. It sounds like a good idea, but actually plays right into the hands of Satan. Remember the atheist (“the George Soros of athism” we just read about)? He was a believer until he went to college and took a Bible history course. I took a Bible as Literature course as an adult finishing my degree and took on a mission to raise my hand often and correct the lies coming from the teacher. I feared for the souls of my classmate, because the course was written by non-believers who had a vendetta out for Christianity, and our teacher hated God. Every effort was made to turn believers away from their faith by painting the Bible as a bunch of lies, and God as a heartless evil being.
This idea of putting Bible in the classroom is like putting atheists in the pulpit. Will you be able to pick the text, the teacher or the curriculum? We know that the education system has been co-opted by the left. Please don’t hand them Bible to teach as “literature” (meaning, the work of man equivalent to all other ancient mythology). They are rubbing their hands together in glee, saying, “come, little children, let me tell you about this Book and your God….”
Report Post »cgnick
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:15pmDon’t get mad when they are teaching Islam in schools.
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:02pmTeaching the Bible as historical fact in public schools, but gun carriers can’t carry on government property. What is wrong with the Arizona government these days?
Report Post »Fla Del
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:02amCan anyone smell Obama’s ears burning.
Report Post »I smell a law suit coming.
godlovinmom
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 3:58amHorsecrazy…That is exactly my first thought…I wouldn’t want a public school to teach my child anything about God…can you imagine how they would distort God’s word…they’ve already done that with science and history…anyone read a history book lately from public school…not good.
Report Post »johnsnare
Posted on April 21, 2012 at 5:31pmAbsolutely great for our children to learn from the Bible, and consequently, make their own decisions, regarding religion. Finally, we have some level headed politicians, doing the right thing. Our Atheist friends, should learn from this, and not be afraid, that a child who reads the Bible, does not automatically become some religious freak.
Report Post »elisha
Posted on April 22, 2012 at 7:38amThis Lady has more “balls” -sorry, than any other politician in the country. She is fearless even in the face of the federal govt. I wish all our leaders were as courageous as her!! JAN BREWER for president! She couldn’t do any worse.
ILB56
Posted on April 22, 2012 at 9:38amYou hear that? It’s the panic of liberals as they realize America is taking back our country from their Communist manifesto. We‘ve been asleep for 100 years as they’ve destroyed our country. It’s great to see what the effects of the Tea Party has been in such a short period of time.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on April 23, 2012 at 2:26pmYou want to see religious studies in schools? All religions or just yours?
Report Post »tzion
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:49amI still remember one of my high school teachers telling about how there are five aspects to understanding history:
Report Post »Government
Economics
Religion
Military
Society
(GERMS for short)
Without studying the bible‘s role in history one’s knowledge of history is painfully lacking.
VRW Conspirator
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 5:17pmI agree…in order to understand the context of History..something today’s books and classroom teachers utterly IGNORE…(we have several History “teachers” on my campus that hang Soviet and Chinese flags in their rooms and preach about the evils of Capitalism)…you have to look at all aspects of the people who were doing the events…including their faith and belief structure.
to address another point that many addressed..this is an ELECTIVE course…the only teachers that would want to teach it would probably be believers in Christianity or Judaism or Islam and OPEN minded enough not to cloud the issue.
Report Post »i took a class in college…taught by former Presbyterian Minister, Ph.D in History and Theology..who left the Ministry because of the bias in Bible interpretation from his church elder council. We looked at the Bible, Josephus, and other sources…the class was “the Historical Jesus of Nazareth” .. he didn’t preach and our final paper was to write a critical essay about our thoughts from the texts on was Jesus a “sympathetic healer”, “magician”, “revolutionary”, “crazy”, or the “Son of God”…
the CS Lewis tract of Mere Christianity….it was excellent..especially when the atheist students tried to debate him and the rest of us…classic verbal beatdown…i loved it…great class…at UCLA!!
Abraham Young
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:46amhttp://www.face.net
The Bible used to be the standard for education.
Report Post »But the Communist judges who banned school prayer wanted to demoralize the country – and we the people permitted it to happen. Parents, teach your children well.
SekndAmendment
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:25amIt wasn’t communist judges…it was the U.S. Supreme Court. Religion in state funded schools is clearly a violation of separation of church and state. An optional course on biblical history from an objective and secular perspective is fine.andatory prayers however, are not.
Report Post »jeffile
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:18amThe Supreme Court routinely fails to understand the intent of “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” but especially “impeding the free exercise of religion”. Unforrtunetly they use case rather than comstitutional law. Teaching biblical history is not Congress creating a national religion and restricting a treaters right to teach religion is an obvious (to the intent of the writers of the constitution) violation of our rights. Congress, yes, Congress, (did I mention congress?) shall make no law establishing a religion but nothing about a state doing the same.
Report Post »maccow
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 1:49pm@Seknd
Report Post »Religion maybe, but if you are teaching history and social studies, to leave out the bible as a historical and social reference is myopic. It is possible, and totally reasonable to use the bible for its historic perspective without teaching its religious doctrines.
Or are you so blinded that you can not see your way to accept that the bible is historically and socially relevant?
colt1860
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 2:29pmThe Renaissance? The Reformation? The English Civil War? The Enlightenment? ETC. They all include some sort of Religious aspect to them.
Religion and Church are not the same, and neither is Religion and Establishment of Religion. George Washington placed his hand on the Holy Bible to take his Constitutional Oath, and further stated at the end thereof, “So help me God”. George Washington mentioned God and his blessings upon our nation in both his Inaugural and Farewell Addresses. Congress also held prayers at the beginning of the first Session, and passed a resolution to hold a National Day of Prayer and Fasting.
Fisher Ames, known as the primary author of the First Amendment, was a publicist, statesman, judge and congressman from Massachusetts (1791-1797). On September 20, 1789, Fisher Ames was quoted in Paladian Magazine, giving his view of American education:
“We have a dangerous trend beginning to take place in our education. We’re starting to put more and more textbooks into our schools. We’ve become accustomed of late of putting little books into the hands of children, containing fables and moral lessons. We’re spending less time in the classroom on the Bible, which should be the principal text in our schools. The Bible states these great moral lessons better than any other man-made book.”
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 3:10pm“The Supreme Court routinely fails to understand the intent of “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” but especially “impeding the free exercise of religion”.
sure, they’re the idiots. they got it all wrong. you should volunteer to take one of their jobs. send them your C.V.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 4:01pmThe bible cannot be even remotely referred to as an educational text. It is a religious text for those who chose to read it. Nothing more.
Report Post »maccow
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 6:13pm@JROOK
Report Post »Not that I have much interest in your opinion or in trying to sway you; many universities, Harvard, and Yale, do use the bible in their history and social studies. You cannot teach the archeology of the middle east without a biblical context because most of what is known of the people and groups in that region, we know because of the bible.
Just one case in point; the biblical city of Nineveh was thought to never have existed up until the 1840s.
cgnick
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:20pmThey will have to offer a Koran class and a class studying whatever book that Buddists read too. Will they be allowed to review the book of Morman in this bible class?
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:40pmThe course will take a look at the influence THE Bible has had in our WESTERN civilization, especially in the US, not in Utah, China, or Arabia. I’m 100% positive that Americans in the 1700′s were NOT influenced by the Koran or Buddhist philosophy.
Report Post »cgnick
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:08amGreek mythology, Roman mythology, Christian mythology, Islamic mythology, I can go on forever. They make electives to discuss what ever religious beliefs that they want but none of these are based on fact. It is just another mythology elective.
Report Post »watashbuddyfriend
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:43amJan Brewer, thanks, BUT, wait! Best to get hold of some Bible Doctrine! Why does THE BIBLE (King James, or any other version) have to be read in the public sector?
Report Post »Abraham Young
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:48amFamiliarity with the Bible might acquaint them with the truthfulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. By small means are great things brought to pass.
Report Post »SekndAmendment
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:26amThat’s a Book Of Mormon quote, not biblical LOL
Report Post »riseandshine
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 12:28pm@Seknd……Yes it is. Great quote.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 2:40pmThe Bible was the book most read and known by the majority of Americans during our founding. Just about every home had a gun, and a bible. It’s significance and influence upon the first settlers and those alive during the Revolution can only be denied by those willing to hide and distort our history.
“Let us enter on this important business under the idea that we are Christians on whom the eyes of the world are now turned… [L]et us earnestly call and beseech Him, for Christ’s sake, to preside in our councils… We can only depend on the all powerful influence of the Spirit of God, Whose Divine aid and assistance it becomes us as a Christian people most devoutly to implore. Therefore I move that some minister of the Gospel be requested to attend this Congress every morning… in order to open the meeting with prayer.” Elias Boudinot, PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; SIGNED THE PEACE TREATY TO END THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION; FIRST ATTORNEY ADMITTED TO THE U. S. SUPREME COURT BAR; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; DIRECTOR OF THE U. S. MINT
On January 21, 1781, Philadelphia printer Robert Aitken (1734-1802) petitioned Congress to officially sanction a publication of the Old and New Testament which he was preparing at his own expense. Congress “highly approve[s] the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as subservient to the interest of religion… in this country, and… they recommend this edition of the bible to the inhabitants of the United States.”
Report Post »dataweaver
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:38amFrom the article:
“This bill is not about improving academic achievement; it’s about introducing religious indoctrination into the schools and currying favor with conservative religious voters,” Americans United for the Separation of Church and State spokesperson Joe Conn told The Christian Post. ”I think most public schools will decide not to offer Bible courses. They are already strapped for funds, so I doubt if they’ll want to use scarce resources to intervene in such a controversial topic.”
There’s a nugget of truth in that last part: a key reason why this bill shouldn’t be controversial is that it _is_ optional: if a given school doesn’t want to offer such a course, they don’t have to.
Report Post »jay1975
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:27amWill they offer classes on the Torah or the Koran? If the law is not inclusive, it will be shot down faster than an Iraqi Scud.
Report Post »jeffile
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 1:24pmOne cannot understand our constitution or the intent of the writers without a knowledge of biblical history. But that would instill critical thinking which was lost to academia long ago,
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 2:52pm@jay1975 Education shouldn’t be the fourth branch of Government, but a Power reserved for the People of the several States, not to politicians. FORCED diversity and multiculturalism is destroying most European nations, and it will destroy us too. Should our Government also allow Communism and Marxism to be taught to our children right next to Republicanism and Federalism? Should our schools offer courses on Jihad and Sharia? Absolutely NOT!
Samuel Adams wrote a letter on October 4, 1790 to his cousin John Adams, who was vice president of the United States: “Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age, by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, of inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity and universal philanthropy, and in subordination to these great principles, the love of their country; of instructing them in the art of self-government… in short, of leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system. Knowledge apart from God and His truth is little better than complete ignorance, because the most important aspect of education is the imbuing of moral principles. All education is religious – it imparts a basic set of principles and ideals, a worldview. How the youth are educated today will determine the course a nation takes in the future.”
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 3:25pm@jay1975 The course will include the influence the Bible has had on our Western Civilization. Last time I checked, the overwhelming majority of Americans from the 1600′s-1800‘s didn’t read the Koran, or Buddhist texts, nor did the people of that time attend or participate in any services or rituals associated with those foreign religions. The Declaration of Independence speaks of a Creator, Supreme Judge and Divine Being, and not of any worldly philosopher. To compare them, or uphold them as similar, is ridiculous and seditious to our history, and tantamount to distorting the truth for the purpose of perpetuating a foreign agenda destructive to our nation and way of life.
Report Post »enzomedici
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:33amThat’s great. Here’s a few bible passages for you.
Report Post »Timothy 2:12 ESV
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.”
(I Corinthians 11:8-9)
“For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.”
(I Timothy 2:11-14)
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
(I Corinthians 14:34-35)
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
EddardStark
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:49amWait, you mean vague references to “professors from Harvard, Yale, etc.” aren’t enough for you? I mean those passages certainly reflect the social values of the humans that produced the Bible, in its historical context I mean.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:04amGoof grief. You sound like YourSensi / JustTim….tell me it isn’t so….at least you aren’t doing the Tourette bit…
Report Post »Cell92
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:11amAnd here’s a few more great quotes you can use, Enzomedici:
Romans 16:1: Now, I recommend to you, Phoebe, our sister, who is a deaconess of the assembly which is at Cenchrea … (Wuest translation)
Romans 16:7: Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow countrymen and my fellow prisoners who are of excellent reputation among the apostles … (Wuest)
1 Corinthians 11:5: But every woman praying or prophesying with her head unveiled dishonors her head. For it is one and the same thing as if she were shaved. (WEB)
Galatians 3:28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (ESV)
Women speaking in church and leading? Men and women can serve Jesus equally? Oops, sorry, I didn’t mean to mess up your “the Bible is sexist” argument, Enzomedici. Context helps understanding, you know. Peace.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:41amWhat? You mean the Bible contradicts itself?
Report Post »Stephen Markovich
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 1:41pmyou miss the entire gist
Report Post »vaman
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 3:24pmThis is a great example. Bible thumpers always want people to take the bible literally when it promotes their backwards agendas, but you never see them quoting anything like this. I guess they wouldn’t take sections like this seriously or as literally.
Report Post »RightUnite
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:32amOk, I guess the DOJ will be stepping in any minute now…. 5….4…..3….2….1
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:09pmMany Bible as Lit texts are very anti-faith. It plays right into their hands, to have the Bible torn apart in a non-faith-friendly environment to “help” young minds realise that all that their parents have taught them is wrong, and now they are smarter than their parents. It is a movement to kill the faith of our children (not that Jan Brewer has this intention, as I understand she is a great lady), but I hope they examine the text and study actual courses and their impact across the nation before taking this plunge. The left loves these courses, and even relishes teaching them.
Report Post »MittensKittens
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:31amCall it however you want to call it, historical significance or whatever…I think it’s great, that’s what this country needs.
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 1:31pmReally? The country needs to know that kids who are disrespectful should be killed, that a woman who gets rapped and who doesn’t scream loud enough is at fault for the rape and that killing babies is OK as long as they are of the wrong religion/tribe?
Really? How will that help matters?
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 3:04pmWell if folks are taking passages and verses out of context, misconstruing them, and distorting their meaning or intent, then maybe we should teach it more often and with more diligence.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 4:33pmSo, when someone points out something in your book you don’t like, it’s taken out of context. When there is something presented in it that is more kid friendly, you’re suddenly an expert on it. We already know the Bible has both positive and negative elements to it. We focus on the negative, because you cherry pickers seem to conveniently forget about them. We don’t make excuses for it but rather sit back and enjoy how you people are going to try to spin it this time. It is you that misrepresents your religion. You are dishonest.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:20pmCareful what you ask for. Picture a left leaning teacher teaching your Christian kids “Bible as Literature”. Will they leave the course with more faith, or will they have been rung through the ringer, being a captive audience for a semester of a year of a Bible hater, who twists and turns in his or her teaching to paint the Bible as a useless and in-congruent piece of literature? As an adult about 6 years ago, I took a “Bible as literature” course as an adult, and had to constantly raise my hands to correct the professor, and to show the kids the truth as she took it as her mission to destroy faith. Extra reading included a novel about Jacob’s wives, which portrayed them as worshippers of a goddess who required (strange and x-rated) sorts of worship. I had to stop reading at some point, though it was required, and demanded an alternative reading option. I demanded it for myself, as well as any of the young kids who may choose to also, but I alone was given the alternative (which angered me beyond measure). It was deemed appropriate reading material because the fictional novel was based on the time of the fictional Bible. The book was called “The Red Tent”. If you own a copy, burn it. And if it is included in the reading material with your Bible as Lit class, change classes and don’t let your kids take the course. From what I understand, this was not just my own isolated experience, but is a gateway for atheist activists to reach our kids.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:03pmI believe the Bible to be 100% true. I don’t apologize like other Christians. YES, I believe in THAT God of the Bible. In many instances, the way folks try to impersonate God is not realistic, true, or even within context. Sometimes, these folks will try that bully tactic, name calling. The US murdered hundreds of German Nazi’s (humans!) during WW2. Does that make the US military evil? No. There are concepts known as War, Justice, Judgement, Treason, Reward, Punishment, International Laws, Sovereignty, Repercussions, Wickedness, Collateral Damage, etc. News Flash! The US nuked two cities! In it, killing and injuring thousand of thousands of people not fighting, in combat, or in military service; including innocent civilians, children, mothers, etc. Does that make the US a monster? If it does, why are YOU still living here, and willingly owing allegiance to this monster? And do try to grasp the point I’m making here.
“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.”
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:48pmSo Colt, you believe in a firmament? You believe the sun revolves around the earth and we are at the center of the universe? You believe the earth is held up by pillars and does not move? You believe that if you show a pregnant animal stripes then the offspring is going to be born with stripes? You believe that mouthy children should be stoned to death? You believe virgins of a conquered nation should be taken as sex slaves and war trophies?
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 4:15pm@FoxholeAtheist LOL. You’ve taken things way out of context, misinterpreted them, twisted their meaning, and used modern words which don’t fully translate the words from those ancient languages. Your understanding of those passages is wrong.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on April 23, 2012 at 2:28pmColt says “I believe the Bible to be 100% true”. How is pointing out the fallacies of the Bible out of context after that statement? Or is your original statement also conveniently out of context?
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on April 23, 2012 at 2:35pmSo, are you saying the Bible is dated, Colt? Your original statement was that you believe the Bible to be 100% true, now you are saying that it’s unfair I point out logical and scientific fallacies of your book which we both know were written by people who had no understanding of science and nature, let alone morality. Which is it? The Bible contradicts itself and is scientifically incorrect, or it’s not. I can open to any number of pages and point out its weak points. The “out of context” argument is used only when it suits you and your agenda. I say that you are the one guilty of taking it “out of context”. You cherry pick what you need from it and forget the rest.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on April 23, 2012 at 2:40pmThe Catholic church imprisoned a man because he dared to challenge their “out of context” interpretation of what the Bible had to say about celestial bodies revolving around each other.
Report Post »YtownSports
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:20amThe fact that the course is not mandatory is a good thing. However, is there going to be a class on the impact of other religions on our culture? This opens Pandora’s Box. I’m uncomfortable with this being part of a public school curriculum.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:40amThe bill specifically mentions only the Bible as a basis for the class. I’d say this is actually both a salve for your fears, and the weakest portion of the legislation (and the part most likely to cause a court to deem it unconstitutional). Opponents will likely argue that by ONLY allowing the Bible to be presented in a class studying the historical context of religion, the state is endorsing one religion over others in a public school setting.
To make it Constitutional, the legislation will likely need to be amended to allow for any religious text that includes history, providing it meets acceptable guidelines and criteria and is done with a secular focus.
That would be my guess, at least. But no, you don’t need to worry, at least immediately, about non-Christian religious texts being shown in public schools.
Report Post »dataweaver
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:56amI’d be fine if that happens, as long as it doesn’t involve an equivalent of the Fairness Doctrine. Individual schools should be able to freely choose which of these courses to offer, if any (and specifically _without_ any sort of “equal access” mandate); the courses should never be mandatory; and parents should be kept in the loop as to what is actually being taught in those classes, and should be free to pull their children out at a moment’s notice and without undue consequences.
Report Post »lgccac
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:05amOutstanding. I like Jan Brewer.
Report Post »Dde13
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:01amVoter ID upheld, taking on the government re: boarder patrol, gov Brewer, sheriff Apaio and now this! I got to say I really like Arizona!!!!! God Bless em…
Report Post »Winedude
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 12:43pmFor all of the reasons you mention, I have no trouble staying the hell away from AZ. I’ve been there many times in the past and never felt a need to return. Hopefully this absurd behavior will stay in Arizona and not turn other states into this type of cesspool.
Report Post »shannyg
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 1:10pmDDE13, it is a great state. Wouldn’t leave it for anything. We need more decent people and less Californians moving here expecting it to make it like California.
Report Post »only easy day was yesterday
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:01amI wished we had a governor like Jan in N.C.Doesn‘t look like that’s going to happen, any time soon.
Report Post »The only problem I would have is having someone teach the class that doesn’t believe the Bible is the Word of God. My son took a class in college on the Old Testament and the instructor didn’t believe any
thing in the Old Testament.
321481
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:59amThe earliest education classes in the USA they first used … The Holy Bible!! Our forefathers learned the Bible FIRST. It was part of the formula used to make our founders great, now for the most part this country want to take out an essential ingrediate that made American leaders great, the Bible. It‘s like shooting ourselves in the foot and wonder why our country has lost it’s way.
Report Post »nawma
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:07amI completely agree. It was good enough for our Founding Fathers who had it printed to be the first text books in our country and it is good enough for our children now. The good Lord knows our children are in need of some moral foundations in their lives. God Bless Arizona!
Report Post »JanetteA
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:59amGood for Jan Brewer, I love her! Now let’s see how fast Obama and Holder file a lawsuit.
Report Post »Teabunny
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:58amyyyyeeeeeeaaaahhhh! Praise God!
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:49amI am glad to see its been signed by our governor; the challenges now will come fast from the Federal level, especially with Holder and Obama hating this state as much as they do. Even offered as an elective course they will initially find some bleeding hearted libertine justice to oveturn it.
Report Post »Nations
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:48amI went to High School during GREASE (1961 GRAD). We had prayers daily to start everything off. On Wednesdays we had YOUTH FOR CHRIST in the auditorium with pastors from many of the area’s churches. I loved it. I felt like I lived in America. We were free and things were great. Then we put Kennedy into office and the whole thing went SOUTH. My grandfathers were democrats and I became on too. But one day I woke up and realized that something was going wrong with my country. Hippies and such started their leveraging of our minds and we again went SOUTH. I truly dislike anyone who messes with my country. I hope we awaken to what once was before I die an old man.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:47amI am a Catholic. I attended Pacific Lutheran University in the 60′s. Religious studies were required. One of the classes I took was the impact of the Bible on the US. I also had a class concerning the impact of the bible on European and American political systems. I found no overtones of the Lutheran faith in the classes except for the fact the Catholic bible has 4 additional books.
To deny the impact of the bible on the foundation of the US is foolish and poor teaching. We are a Christian nation. The different sects may step on each other’s toes on purpose or by accident but we all understand the foundation of the house call the United Stated of America.
Report Post »lynnissmart
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:43amHey Jan….keep on socking it to them……(another reason for the pos to sue Arizona)? Jan, just doK whatever it takes…….Kudos
Report Post »The Jewish Avenger
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:43amBoo yeah!
Go Arizona!
Seconds later, I wonder which anti-Christian group with a personal agenda claiming to be for equality is going to try to mess this all up.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:42amDoesn’t seem like a bad idea at all. Studying the Bible (or any other holy book) from a historical perspective would be quite interesting in a class. They offer similar classes at public universities, so why not an elective in high schools?
The only potential conflict I see is when ultra-religious and ultra-atheist students clash. I anticipate there being some issues like where one student will bring out a critique of the Bible, and another will be quoting Scripture in response. That quickly gets away from the secular point of the class… but I still think the benefits outweigh the potential draw-backs.
Report Post »THGIC
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:51amLOCKED,
I agree completely. Seeing that Universities as credible as Harvard, Yale, etc. are offering those courses, why not have a High School offer those? And get this — they are not mandatory! You have the choice to choose that class. No one will “force” you to take the class.
This is brilliant, and will ultimately give the younger generations a choice in whether they wish to study religion or not. I think it is only fair that they can choose for themselves, instead of their parents telling them they have to, or telling them they can’t.
Way to go Jan Brewer!
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 3:18pm“This is brilliant, and will ultimately give the younger generations a choice in whether they wish to study religion or not.”
except for a couple of things. one, they are only being exposed to 1 religion, not all of them. two, you mention schools such as Harvard and Yale offering those courses. you do realize that are private schools that cost a lot of money. we’re talking about Public schools here. these classes will be divisive to students, and potentially discriminatory. also, there are so many interpretations that some Christian denomination will be offended.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:32amAs in the begining of this Great Nation… and should always be…
Report Post »65Mustang
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:32amThank you Governor Jan Brewer, your state will be blessed.
Report Post »NHwinter
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:31amYou just have to love the Arizona Governor! Keep up your efforts!!
Report Post »DoseofReality
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:28amAs an Atheist Im 100% fine with this – as long as the classes are elective and not mandatory.
Report Post »disenlightened
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:35amExactly.
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:55amSame here.
Having an understanding of the Bible is vital to understanding many great literary works and the evolution of Western Civilization.
Religion absolutely should be taught in public schools because it is an important element of humanity. Being ignorant of it is a mistake.
Report Post »The Jewish Avenger
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:12amBecause of the potential of other religions and beliefs being taught, it is important to keep it as an elective. IMO, it’s morally mandatory, but as we know, that argument can alter as to which should be considered morally mandatory.
IN short, as much as “I” would love for this to be mandatory the elective is the safest option.
Report Post »NewLife56
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:23amIt is an elective, and thank you for your common sense, we all need more of that.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:43am@The Jewish Avenger
“Because of the potential of other religions and beliefs being taught, it is important to keep it as an elective.”
There is not potential for other religions and beliefs to be taught; the legislation clearly states that only teaching from the Bible will be protected by the new law (see the blue section at the very end: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/2r/bills/hb2473p.pdf). Other religious books and faiths are not allowed by AZ law.
That fact will likely be the source of the lawsuits. Allowing all faiths an equal chance would be fine; only protecting the Bible being taught will probably go to the courts to decide if it crosses the establishment line or not.
Report Post »THGIC
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:55amLOCKED,
As a Christian, I love the thought of the Bible being taught in Public Schools; however, it is not alright if my religion is acceptable to teach, and then other religions cannot be taught. That is not equal, and is not fair to other religions.
Right again you are sir.
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