Bachmann Refuses to Walk Back Claim of Obama ‘Gangster Government’
- Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:43pm by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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During an interview on Sunday’s “Meet the Press,” Tea Party Caucus leader Michele Bachmann (R-MN) refused to back down from previous (2009) comments characterizing the Obama administration as a “gangster government.” She may have even doubled down.
“I don’t take back my statement on gangster government,” she told host David Gregory. “I think that there have been actions that have been taken by this government that I think are corrupt, thoroughly corrupt.”
“I believe the actions of this government have been emblematic of ones that have not been based on true American values,” she added, before coming close to doubling down on her previous comments: “I think the president’s actions in the last two years speak for themselves.”
The appropriate segment is below:
You can also watch the entire segment, which features Bachmann frustrating Gregory when she sticks to talking points in response to some of his direct questions. The main talking point, however, was a stunner from Bachmann: $105 billion of secret Obamacare funding (appropriations). As NewsBusters points out, Gregory didn’t seem to want to deal with that:
So now that Congress is searching for ways to cut the budget, a very good place to start would be with the 105 BILLION dollars in secret ObamaCare funding, However, David Gregory would rather stubbornly stick to his script about supposed dissension between Tea Party members and the GOP as well other relatively trivial matters.
You can see Bachmann call Obamacare a “crime against democracy” in the full interview below (which also features discussion of her 2012 plans):
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Comments (335)
I-HATE-THE-WORD-DISENFRANCHISE
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:41amI believe she has an accounting law degree? God bless her for standing up for America.
Report Post »Serenna
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:40amMichelle is totally correct!
Out with BO in 2012!
Report Post »Airgun
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:36amI think Miles meant to say “socialist”, but there isn’t a butt hairs difference so who cares.
Report Post »@KLOWEEB-It doesn’t matter that the governments spooky dude collapsed were by and large communist, as he didn’t do it out of some noble innate quality, no.
He did it for fun, which makes him far less of a hero, and far more of a monster.
He picked the countries he did because they were vulnerable, and he stood to make billions, so I hope you aren‘t making the mistake of thinking he’s good for anyone but himself.
If you are then you have my pity.
NHABE64
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:34amI completely agree with her. Obama has ties with all kinds of low life. He refuses to talk against radical islam because he is one of THEM. He allows millions to be sent to rebuild mosques because he is one of THEM. He now openly supports the corrupt unions because he is as corrupt as they are and THEY have contributed millions to his election campaign. He does nothing to support Israel but reaches out to the Hamas because this cockroach is one of THEM. It just goes, I am wondering if we can survive until 2012 without impeaching this monster from hell. He should be impeached NOW. God bless Michelle for standing tall and telling it like it is.
Report Post »Eyeball
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:33amObama was a social worker. A social worker from Chicago is a gangster. A social worker from Chicago that becomes a Senator is supported by the Mob.
Report Post »JEANNIEMAC
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:28amKLOWEEB: Michele Bachmann did not tell “horrible lies” about Obama. She told the truth about this man who is usurping the office of president.
Report Post »Airgun
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:26amLiving in her district is the bee’s knees; I get to keep voting for her- unless she runs for POTUS, that is. :P
Report Post »lorihap
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:20am“I don’t take back my statement on gangster government,” she told host David Gregory. “I think that there have been actions that have been taken by this government that I think are corrupt, thoroughly corrupt.”
Report Post »*************************
David Gregory is a weasel and that was painful to watch. Liberals love to bash Conservatives, especially Conservative women on national t.v. Coo-dos to you Michelle for standing your ground!
Fatheroftwo
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:20amShe’s totally right!!! It’s my way or the beat down!!!
Report Post »drattastic
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:18amWe are going to have to put up a lot of money to defeat that commie this next election ,He will have a 1BILLION DOLLAR war chest ,so we need to DIG DEEP to save our country .Break your piggy banks and dig into your couch cushions folks cause our kid‘s and grandkid’s futures depend on it !
Report Post »Cherynn
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:28amHow much of his war chest was taken from the US treasury and stolen from the American tax payer ??????
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:52amBut he controls the nations printing presses. His treasurer, no doubt will be Tim Geithner, the world’s greatest “Paper Hanger”.
Report Post »EP46
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 4:42amHe had over $800 million last time…tons were illegal contributions via internet. This will be the most CORRUPT election in U.S. history. Plan now…it will be about as honest as an election in a Third World Nation. They will stop at nothing…the New Black Panthers and Acorn were just a beginning.
Report Post »drattastic
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:13amRight between your eyes Gregory ,Bachmann speaks the truth ,we need more just like her .She would get my vote !
Report Post »KL
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:09amI knew Obama was a fake when he was running in 2008, he had a ‘mask’ on and I don’t believe he has totally taken it off. If reelected, then that mask would come off. Do we REALLY want to know exactly who this man is? ( i don’t think so)This country would not survive.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:49amBut, will it survive if we don’t know? If you’re about to walk off a ledge, but you’re blind, are you less likely to get hurt, than if you can see that you’re about to walk off a ledge?
Report Post »Y.b-M.I
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:09amMinnesota can be very proud of Mrs. Bachmann. She has a lot of courage.
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:13amThat she does. And, she has integrity to go with it. BEAUTIFUL woman — inside and out!
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:39am@Y.b-M.I
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:09am
Minnesota can be very proud of Mrs. Bachmann. She has a lot of courage.
***********
Report Post »How DID she ever get past their “Re-count” machine?
Da Kingfish
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:07amWe need to send the boy back to Chicago where can be the king of his domain…http://thejaghunter.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/lets-ask-and-do-tell-is-obama-gay/
Report Post »Y.b-M.I
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:03amDear Mrs. Bachman.
Report Post »Dumbsht
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:01amAgenda Chess
Report Post »Rollo2
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:00amAhhh, Michelle!
You Go girl!!
Report Post »miles from nowhere
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:59pmI am with Bachmann! Obama is a fake, we do not know who he really is and what is this mans real interest is in running this country into the ground. We know that Soros knows who he really is because Obama does everything he tells him. Soros is a commited communist,so what does this make Obama? I am calling Obama a phony and I have no intentions of taking that back until proven wrong.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:24amWhat makes you say Soros is a committed communist? He has helped get rid of communism in many countries.
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:42am@kloweeb
Report Post »Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:24am
What makes you say Soros is a committed communist? He has helped get rid of communism in many countries.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Call him what you please. He is trying to overthrow the entire world for a global government.
Mil Mom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:26am@kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:24am
What makes you say Soros is a committed communist? He has helped get rid of communism in many countries.
**************
Report Post »Haven’t seen much evidence to the getting rid of communism in many countries, but I‘ve sure seen evidence he’s helped to “get rid of the currencies” of many countries. Do you suppose there was a coincidence that the bank failure rumors went out from dem Politicians when McCain picked Palin and surged ahead in the polls? Just asking, didn’t that have a lot to do with the Crash.
Dumbsht
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:57pmNotice what the man in office doesn’t say…..try to weed through what he does.
He started his run for office in the living room of a man who is an unrepentant bomber who tried to blow up a judges house. In that house were children.
Gangsta, terrorist. take your pick. Why are so many in the USA so blind and susceptible to double talk.
His appointees are all scoff laws, even to the point of not prosecuting armed terrorists, at the polls or
Report Post »anywhere else.
Da Kingfish
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:10amhttp://thejaghunter.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/lets-ask-and-do-tell-i
Report Post »neverending
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:55pmMichele is a class act. Another one of the very few politicians that says what she means and means what she says. She can be trusted – her speeches and answers make sense. You go Michele and don;t let the bastards get you down which I know you won’t. We only wish she would not go this heavy, heavy eye makeup and appears false eyelashes. She has a very natural beauty and it just makes her look old. Little off subject there but just an opinion.
Report Post »seeker9
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:17amI don’t think she needs to change a thing. IMHO.
Report Post »I-HATE-THE-WORD-DISENFRANCHISE
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:37amAn elected congresswoman with a backbone. Please run for president
Report Post »godfather
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:25amIt’s funny that you think she has enough experience to be president. Wasn’t it conservatives, and specifically Sarah Palin, who said that Obama did not have any executive experience so he was not fit to become president? Well then, if you still believe that Obama’s lack of executive experience was a problem, why is that not a problem for Bachmann?
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:33am@godfather
Report Post »Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:25am
It’s funny that you think she has enough experience to be president. Wasn’t it conservatives, and specifically Sarah Palin, who said that Obama did not have any executive experience so he was not fit to become president? Well then, if you still believe that Obama’s lack of executive experience was a problem, why is that not a problem for Bachmann?
*******************************
In a Word: BRAINS
NO TELEPROMPTERNEEDED
godfather
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 9:45pm@mill mom
If your only test for intelligence is use of a teleprompter, then according to you, every president since the teleprompter was invented would be considered stupid. Seriously, what is it with people criticizing Obama for his use of a teleprompter? Everyone uses a teleprompter. In case you haven’t been paying attention, Obama does plenty of interviews where he has no notes and answers unscripted questions. Believe it or not, you wouldn’t even need to change the channel from Fox News to see this. Did you happen to be watching Fox before the Super Bowl?
Back to the point of my previous post: why did conservatives attack Obama for his lack of executive experience while you are now supporting a woman, Michelle Bachmann, who also has no executive experience? If lack of executive experience was really that important, you would not be supporting this woman. Or, does this just show that conservatives and tea partiers will criticize anything and everything about Obama regardless of relevancy? I‘m guessing it’s the latter.
Report Post »Bob1943
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:53pmDid Gregory make her tell him she was absolutely certain Obama was born in Hawaii even though he has no Hawaii long-form BC and was a natural born Citizen even though he isn’t?
I’m glad she stuck to her “gangster government” description of the Obama regime…..
Report Post »Dumbsht
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:59pmHe may have been born in Hawaii…..but either way I’m willing to bet that the part of the long form asking what religion says clearly : Musl**.
Report Post »Dale
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:10amFor the sake of argument, let’s agree that odumba was not born in Hawaii. Suppose he was born in Kenya – would that make him automatically a Kenyan? The US is the only nation I know of granting anchor status (born here = citizen). I don’t believe there is any argument that his mother was a citizen. That being said, and I don’t know for certain so please enlighten me, if a woman has a child in a foreign country; does that child enjoy US citizenship? If the answer is affirmative, then we should end the citizenship question and focus on what they are trying to distract us from. He’s president for another 22 months! What can/should we do to minimize the damage?
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:11amGregory should have had better sense than to have someone on who has better sense.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:32amEverytime I see Gregory .. makes me miss Tim Russert … he was liberal but he was fair. Something sorely lacking in these smug little punks like Gregory.
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:32am@Dale
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:10am
For the sake of argument, let’s agree that odumba was not born in Hawaii. Suppose he was born in Kenya – would that make him automatically a Kenyan? The US is the only nation I know of granting anchor status (born here = citizen). I don’t believe there is any argument that his mother was a citizen. That being said, and I don’t know for certain so please enlighten me, if a woman has a child in a foreign country; does that child enjoy US citizenship? If the answer is affirmative, then we should end the citizenship question and focus on what they are trying to distract us from. He’s president for another 22 months! What can/should we do to minimize the damage?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Constitution of Kenya specifies in Chapter VI, Section 87:
(1) Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963:
Provided that a person shall not become a citizen of Kenya by virtue of this subsection if neither of his parents was born in Kenya.
(2) Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.
****************************************
So, Obama and his father BOTH became citizens of Kenya under the new government’s Constitution.
Obama’s mother did NOT meet the age and residency requirements of Hawaii law in effect at the time of Obama Jr.’s birth in order to pass her own U.S. citizenship to her son. So, Obama was a British subject at the time of his birth and obtained his Kenyan citizenship on 12 December 1963, the same day that his father did.
Since we do not have a judge or Justice in this country with the hangy-downies to persue this “small detail” in a court of law, the most expedient means of evicting him is by impeachment, which would in itself be acknowledging that he was a legitimate POTUS, albeit untrue.
Did that help?
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:38am@Dale ~
I have just quoted the Kenyan Constitution , Chapter VI, Section 87 (1) and (2). I‘m waiting to see if it’s posted.
I have answered your question.
Report Post »Dale
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:45amThanks, Show.
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:54amNo problem. Glad to help.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:13amMaybe the Long Form B-certificate was locked when he was adopted, why doesn’t anyone care about his adoption papers. If his real name is Barry Sotero, then why was he elected to Sen and POTUS using Obama, did he legally take back his old name. And if he was given citizenship in his adopted father’s country, wouldn’t he have had to be naturalized to legally run for Senate in America. Where’s the “Paper Trail” to all that?
Report Post »cheezwhiz
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:35amWhere’s the “Paper Trail” to all that?
Report Post »——
Maybe thats why Hillary’s crack team of ahem..investigators never found any evidence of Obama’s
life as an actual islamic+communist subversive. They were looking for Barack Hussain Obama and he was Barry Sotero or Sotero Hussain or maybe Barry Dunham ..who TF knows
1TrueOne55
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 3:26am@Dale:
You are on the right track, I was born to an Austrian Mother and an American born father that was in the Army right after WWII during the “Occupation” phase after the war rebuilding Europe. He was stationed in Salzburg and met my mother there. They were married in 1952 and I was born 3 years later in France when my father was stationed there, I was considered a US Citizen by birth but my mother at the time was not yet a US Citizen since it took years to get that paperwork filed and she had yet to take her test.
When I was small, to small to remember my dad was stationed near Chicago and from what my mother tells of the time it was very much anti German or anyone with an accent. She to this day also does not like the way that our Government takes care of its people. In her old country and most of Europe there are Gov’t pensions for all their citizens and discounts etc for when you retire. But in America and the Free Market system you are left to your own devices.
I applaud Michele Bachmann for her views and I pray that she makes it farther along in her political career. Truth is the backbone of God’s way of life because if there is no truth then there is no trust.
Obama lost my trust when he was campaigning so I voted for McCain/Palin not for McCain but for Palin since I felt that she brought a measure of truth to the ticket that McCain could not.
Report Post »mharry860
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:50pmNo kidding, Sarah may energize the base, but Bachman actually has enough experience to be a lot more informed.
Report Post »neverending
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:56pmAnd far more professional.
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:10amAnd a lot more effective.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:04amI wouldn’t mind a Bachmann / Palin ticket. Experience, & Bravado all wrapped up in 2.
Report Post »Thevoice
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 7:31amTo the left: Here you have the clear case of a left wing bozo anchor hell bent on trying to discredit ..and nothing more ……GOOD FOR Michele Bachmann …..For hanging in there and getting the real message out. Let the progressive communists know what is coming…. a street wweeper that is going to sweep them into the dust pan of history for once and for all….Done in a Republic at the voting box…God bless Michele Bachmann …..
Report Post »cheezwhiz
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:48pmIts not a
Report Post »“gangster” government
Its a
“gangsta” government.
There is a difference
CatB
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:53pmChicago Chicago a hell of a town …. time to kick it back to Chicago and out of D.C.
Report Post »lillianrose
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:57am“Chicago Chicago a hell of a town …. time to kick it back to Chicago and out of D.C.”
Chicago Chicago a hell of a town …. time to kick him back to Kenya his home.
Report Post »NickDeringer
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:46pmLord I love this woman. Forget Palin. She’s become too caught up in her own celebrity to be POTUS. We need a woman with spine.
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:08amAnd one who, on national television, can ask Chris Matthews, “How’s that tingle working for you now?!”
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:09amRight on!
Report Post »CatB
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:24amI wish we could find some more men with spines also .. I am quite disappointed in Florida’s new Senator .. he seems to be in hiding .. the TEA Party got him elected and now he is MIA.
Report Post »DaytonConserve
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:31amI’m thinking a Newt/Michelle ticket or maybe Herman/Michelle?
Report Post »RepubliCorp
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:30amPalin is a distraction ….she should be part of the RNC
Report Post »Obama is a Un-American Commie low-life that came out of a septic tank call Chicago
Oil_Robb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 6:52amWe complained that Obama didnt have the experience….lets not make the same mistake and nominate Palin. She hasnt got the goods and she did herself a diservice with that show. I think shes a great organizer but IMO I think shes just memorized a few talking points.
Report Post »sawbino
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 10:54am@daytonconserve, you have got to be kidding me with the Newt remark. That man is a sellout! He did that global warming commercial with that disgusting pig, nancy piglosi. I wouldn’t vote for that sellout if he were the last tea party/republican left to vote for.
Report Post »Bluebonnet
Posted on March 8, 2011 at 1:33pmI love Michelle Bachmann too. Love a person who stands for what they believe instead of giving in to special interests. Love Herman Cain, Allen West, but not sure about any of the others. See what happened last time when we collectively HAD to vote for someone we didn’t want? The only reason McCain made the cut was because of Sarah. Love her too, but had to vote for McCain with a clothes pin on my nose. Was not surprised when he lost to Obama, like it was planned for McCain to shrink away from the race toward the last, hmmmmm? Wonder what he got to act so indifferent to lose?
Report Post »CatB
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:45pmGood for her!
Report Post »banjarmon
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:47pmTell it like it is….You GO Bachmann!!!!
Report Post »ManThong
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:47pmIt’s Chicago on the Potomac, what do you expect?
Report Post »cheezwhiz
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:50pmYou can take a thug out of Chicago
Report Post »but
you can’t take Chicago out of a thug
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:55pmGo for it, tell the truth of what the thug incorporated administration is doing; let the reality of each and every one of their dark deeds be shown into the light for the ugliness they are.
Report Post »Copenloaf
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:00amIt’s fun to watch a real conservative go on MTP instead of their regular progressive republicans.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:01amI’ll say it: I’m convinced Obama is anti-American.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:16ami’ll say it, i think anybody who perpetuates horrible lies about the president of the United States of America is anti american.
cheezwhiz
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:22amSo why hasn’t she been called racist yet ?
Report Post »Sore@$$ pays big money to his people to weave a tangled web around the theme of
either ‘ racist’ or ‘fascist’ , whats taking so long ?
Maybe his jihady comrades will call her a “bigot’ and set the ball rolling
cheezwhiz
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:25amkloweeb
i’ll say it, i think anybody who perpetuates horrible lies about the president of the United States of America is anti american.
———
What lies ?
Do tell :D
Cobra Blue
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:29amCorrection…Gangsta govment! Now that is truly what it is. And the way it is spoken in the White House.
Report Post »patriotwoman
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:36am@ Kloweeb: Nothing that Michelle Bachman said was a lie.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:52am@cheezwhiz
Posted on March 6, 2011 at 11:50pm
You can take a thug out of Chicago
but
you can’t take Chicago out of a thug
*********************
Report Post »Nope, the thug just established “Little Chicago on the Potomoc” moving the main gangsters there with him.
aLinedog
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:55amNow I’ll clear it up for you.
Report Post »Anyone professing anti-Republic views is un-American. Furthermore anyone attempting to promote said views borders on treason and should be exiled.. To work towards a dismantling of the Republic and removal of the states as final arbiters of their own sovereignty is to work against our country.
Just because the other 49 states say it’s required that the Great State of Tennessee give up her authority within her lawful borders means only that you can come and try to make us. If you feel otherwise concerning your state’s authority, then you are a traitor to your own state and we don’t need you here (in the U.S.) anyway. So get the hell out.
-Line
Mil Mom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:58am@kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:16am
i’ll say it, i think anybody who perpetuates horrible lies about the president of the United States of America is anti american.
**********************
Report Post »But first you‘ve got to prove they’re lies. Go for it!
BMartin1776
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:59am^click it^
Ditto! Why should she take it back? She is speaking the truth, and its clear this admin and their ilk have a problem with anyone putting the truth out. I mean look at the attack dogs BHO has set on Beck yet only once has he had to correct something he said on air about Van Jones. They never went at him over anything else b/c all that he covers like Bachmanns comment is the truth!
The truth has no agenda!….SavingtheRepublic.com
Report Post »Lunar
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:00amI like the sound of a Christie/Bachmann ticket more than C./Palin. For Palin were going to need a new SecState anyway.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:22amI was just being a smart a** about A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right’s comment. i honestly believe it is a little hipocritical to say everyone who doesn’t believe what you believe regarding politics is anti-american. All the while stating over and over again that you don’t like our governent, how the country is ran, a vast majority of the people in it or many of the laws in place. Isn’t that a little anti-american? I just don’t understand what makes an american anti-american . The way I see it from the people on the far right, you are anti-american if you don’t agree with the far right. It is the American way to have different parties, different point of views, checks and balances. Obama is very liberal, I will certianly give you that, but liberal does not = anti-american, liberal has been around since the birth of America.
But sine you a asked, she pushed the lie about death panals in health care. And she has insinuated that the presited is not a citezin.
Report Post »cheezwhiz
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:40amkloweeb
Report Post »Plz define what YOU mean by :
1. Anti-American
2. Far-right
theCREATORisGOD
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:06amDear Jesus,
I know you don’t get involved with matters like these as I am about to request, but can you please ensure that Bachmann is on the 2012 ticket?
Thank you and amen.
Report Post »dr_funk
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:31amIndeed…Capone and Hoffa would be proud.
Report Post »avenger
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 6:01amI love you Michelle !!!!!!!
Report Post »Jim from Maine
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 6:43am@Kloweeb
If anyone has been spreading lies about our President, I might have to agree with you ….but I have not heard any lies so far from any on the people who love this country …only from the President and his defenders …every time they open thier mouths.
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 6:46am@ KLOWEEB…….Id call it execizing the First ammendment
Report Post »Ruler4You
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 6:55amShe’s dead on target.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 7:09amGIVE ME A BREAK!!!!
Oh really Ms. Bachman? If the “gangster government” bothered you so much why did you recently vote to keep their Gestapo powers in place? You can’t support the Patriot Act and then peddle your “gangster government” comments afterwards.
I can’t hear what you say because what you do is screaming too loudly in my ear.
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 7:10amMichele Bachmann is showing the GOP how it is done on news shows other than FOX. Don’t let the media pimps take you off your game, get flustered and look like you don’t know what you are doing or saying. Their goal is to put you on defense and the GOP needs to turn it right back on them, putting them on defense. Now that would be a good tutorial to have after the Constitution study group and prayer.
Report Post »decendentof56
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 7:16amKLOWEEB
Your President said in the campaign that energy prices would necessarily have to skyrocket…that if a company tried to build a coal-fired plant he would bankrupt them. He has shut down off-shore drilling for oil, leaving us completely vulnerable to conflict in oil-producing areas. Hows that working at the pump these days?
He shamelessly used the race card when he said “I don’t look like those other guys on the dollar bills.” Hows that for being a ‘uniter’? He bows..he apologizes, he wants to give known, evil terrorists civil trials, he placed American-hating Van Jones as ‘Green-Jobs’ Czar, he in fact created the ‘Czars’, he is friends with J Wright, Wm Ayars. He even told us he would ‘fundamentally transform’ America. Get your head out of your a$$.
Report Post »decendentof56
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 7:34amKLOWEEB
Liberal now does = anti-American. The Libs have been co-opted and completely taken over by unions and anti-Capitalist environmental zealots. Do you think those rising gas prices are just the actions of greedy gas companies? The radical environmentalists love this. They want us all to sit in a cave and eat leaves.
With theTea Party now pushing Conservatives towards the Constitution, we are heading for a showdown to either go Socialistic, or get back to Constitutional government. The Socialists are entrenched, and some Americans are so dumbed down to what is at stake, that we will probably see violence to put down this ‘fundamental transformation’.
Oh, btw…Michelle did what so many leftists do. She stuck to her plan of explaining the pay-off in the healthcare bill. Go ahead, Michelle, frustrate the _astards! How’d you like that, WALKWITHME?
Report Post »Toastery
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 7:58amStick to your guns Congresswoman! Many of us have been saying the same thing for two years!
Report Post »sbish
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 8:00amWhile I am glad that she didn’t take back the comment about our gangster in chief, I continue to be put off by her inability to talk straight and answer questions directly. Every interview that she does, she appears paralized by the thought of moving off of her talking points. It seems like a lot of people are really impressed by her on this board, but I can’t help but to be confused by her. After the 10th time she mentioned the $105 Billion of hidden costs in Obamacare, David whatchmayacallit kind of just gave up and moved on. I can’t blame him, I was frustrated too, as I yelled at the TV, “Answer the questions!”
Report Post »Miguelito
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 8:05amWhen the truth is the truth! What’s not to love about that! I don’t care who you are and what party you are with no one is above the law! We used to be a nation of law but now we have a nation of privilege. Time to get back to a nation of laws for everybody including the president!
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 9:26amQuite right. It‘s nothing that people around most neighborhoods aren’t saying amongst themselves these days. The favors, pay offs and corruption are not even being hidden, they’re just being ignored. But we all see it, if we have eyes to see.
Report Post »veruca salt
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 9:44amMichele Bachmann, welfare queen
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/14/inside-washington-farm-subsidies-staying-power/
ltb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 10:05amGood for Michelle for not backing down from the truth. Obama and his gang of thugs are a bunch of petty criminals who would be pushing crack on the streets of Chicago if they hadn’t duped Americans voters.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 10:35am@veruca salt
“Michele Bachmann, welfare queen”
Argumentum tu quoque. Again. Do they educate you people to do nothing more than basic character attacks these days?
If you wish to have a discussion about the content of her statements according to this article, that would be fine. If you can indulge in nothing besides sneering character attacks, then you will simply be ignored. Please, try to do better. 2/10.
Report Post »nothingbuthetruth
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 10:43amI think bauchman should run in 2012
Report Post »DisillusionedDaily
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 11:05amWhile I agree with her comments, I hope that she is not considering a run for the presidency. She cannot beat Obama. I really wish she could, but she would not pull in the independents. She is too abrasive.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 11:22amand you wonder why she in not in leadership? Really, the tea-party has more nuts than planter’s delivery truck.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 11:56am@decendentof56
Actually Ronald Reagan was the first president to appoint Czars but thank you for pointing out another lie pushed by the far right, to scare people. Do any of you read any other news outlet besides Fox news?
For those of you who said you don’t need lies to look bad, then why use them? Why say over and over he is not a citizen, he is muslim, he created czars, there are death panals in the health care bill, he is a racist. I love how someone on here said that he “plays the race card” becasue he said he doesn’t look like all the othier presidents on the bills. He doesn’t, that’s a fact. Isn’t it Beck who says not to be afraid of “political correctness”? and isn’t it beck who actually called the president of the united states of america a racist? Which is playing the race card? Stating a fact that he looks different, that is undisputable, or saying he is a racist? And before anybody responds with “well it is a fact that he is a racist” not that is not a fact, it is an opinion. you can say you have all the evidence in the world but it would still be an opinion unless the president came out on record and said I am a racist.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:13pm@kloweeb
“Actually Ronald Reagan was the first president to appoint Czars but thank you for pointing out another lie pushed by the far right, to scare people. Do any of you read any other news outlet besides Fox news?”
Actually, FDR appointed them back in his days, the term at the time was “Dictators” but the office and powers given to them were the same as what we call “Czars” now. The name “Dictator” was changed once it was realized that we’d be going to war soon of course. The first president to use the term Czar explicitly was, I believe, Nixon. If you’re going to criticize “the right” and bandy about “lies!”, it might behoove you to at least try to get your facts in order sir.
“For those of you who said you don’t need lies to look bad, then why use them?”
Can’t say I use lies, that I’m aware of.
“Why say over and over he is not a citizen, he is muslim,”
I haven’t said that.
“he created czars,”
Not created, rather, appointed more of them than any other President in history.
“there are death panals in the health care bill,”
There are.
“he is a racist.”
He may or may not be, but given his actions, words and associations, he’s trending more towards it than against it currently.
“not that is not a fact, it is an opinion.”
Opinions and facts are not mutually exclusive. Where do you get that they are?
“you can say you have all the evidence in the world but it would still be an opinion unless the president came out on record and said I am a racist.”
Using that as a standard, David Duke is not a racist. Nor Hitler.
Report Post »docgreen
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:16pmI’m starting to believe God is on our side! The more people stand up to the Obamanation of Desolation, the better off we are! You Go Girl!………………..
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:20pm@encinom
“and you wonder why she in not in leadership? Really, the tea-party has more nuts than planter’s delivery truck.”
She’s actually spot on, regarding “gangster government”. How any good Liberal could turn a blind eye to Obama handing over so much money and power to a private company (General Electric) is beyond me. Seems to me that a good Liberal would be livid about something like that, just as they were when they were accusing Dubya of being in bed with the oil industry. Yet somehow, that’s all ignored now. His blatant political hardball tactics and political cronyism also go uncommented on by the Left. Odd. But let one person on “the right” point out things that the Left should be going nuts over, and the Left cannot demonize that person quick enough.
Guess all that blabber by the Left about being against corporatism and being for the little guy was all bullsh*t. Figures.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:31pm@GhostOfJefferson
You are right that FDR was the first to appoint Czars. The point was that Obama did not create them. Kudos to you for knowing that, clearly there are those on this site who do not.
Also I suppose you I are right about the definition of racism I used, so I will rephrase it, If the president comes out and saiys, “Americans are bad, lets exterminate them” it will be fact.
There are not death panals in Healthcare reform. The fact that you believe that shows your ignorance, that is nonsence. Please show me in the bill where there is anything resembling death panals. The actual bill, not a news segment from Fox news saying there is.
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 12:53pm@kloweeb
“You are right that FDR was the first to appoint Czars”
Yes, I know I am, or I would not have brought him up.
“The point was that Obama did not create them. Kudos to you for knowing that, clearly there are those on this site who do not.”
So you‘re noticing that it’s a matter of individuals then, instead of “the right”? You were previously blanket accusing everybody on “the right” as holding the opinions you outlined. I don’t know of many people on the right, left or libertarian front who thinks Obama invented “czars”. Some may exist, but they’re not the norm, they’re the exception.
“Also I suppose you I are right about the definition of racism I used,”
Yes, I know. Ibid above.
“so I will rephrase it, If the president comes out and saiys, “Americans are bad, lets exterminate them” it will be fact.”
Americans are not a race, we’re a nationality.
“There are not death panals in Healthcare reform.”
Oh? So when Obama said this:
“”that at least we (the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research) can let doctors know and your mom know that…this isn’t going to help. Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller.“ ”
What precisely was he referring to?
And Cass Sunstein’s explicitly expressed view (the same Cass Sunstein in charge of the regulatory aspects of the Health Care Bill) of doling out health care resources (aka allowing or disallowing you to be treated) to people based on what he calls “quality-adjusted life years” means what precisely then?
And then there’s H.R. 1 (2009) authored by Tom Daschle, passed not too much before the HCB, which creates the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research, which according to the bill (now passed) is “to empower an unelected bureaucracy to make the hard decisions about health care rationing that elected politicians are politically unable to make. The end result is to slow costly medical advancement and consumption”.
Now I’ll grant you that H.R. 1 was not the Health Care Bill. It was authored just prior, but contained many provisions that strangely enough, linked to the subsequent Health Care Bill. Anybody with a functioning mind and the ability to not compartmentalize everything into “stand alone” segments devoid of historical and future context can see what’s being set up.
Fact is there are End Of Life Counseling panels, as they’re called, which will encourage older or more terminally ill people to stop “consuming health care resources”. Couple that with Daschle’s brain child on deciding ultimately who will and will not receive “health care resources” and you end up with what can accurately be pointed at as a death panel.
“The fact that you believe that shows your ignorance, that is nonsence.”
Ignorance? Strange, where in this universe, small as it is, does one dig up legislation and names and still remain ignorant I wonder?
“Please show me in the bill where there is anything resembling death panals. The actual bill, not a news segment from Fox news saying there is.”
I know you’re thumping on a talking point. It’s standard fare of course, to assume that “the right” is made up of a swath of ignorant hillbillies despite ample evidence to the contrary.
Why you would think that I base my views off of Fox News, except outside of some kind of “collective guilt” assumption which speaks poorly to reality and individuals, is beyond me.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:08pm@kloweeb,
“i honestly believe it is a little hipocritical to say everyone who doesn’t believe what you believe regarding politics is anti-american. All the while stating over and over again that you don’t like our governent, how the country is ran, a vast majority of the people in it or many of the laws in place. Isn’t that a little anti-american?”
The issue is not whether people disagree with me, per se. The issue is whether they disagree with the Constitution.
America is defined by our Constitution, which recognizes the god-given rights of individual liberty and property (liberty to keep what you work for means you get to keep property).
Therefore – and as @aLinedog noted – anyone working to impose anything but a Republic on us is anti-American.
See Article 4, Section 4, of the Constitution:
“The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.”
(FYI – Oddly, this part of the Constitution was not read when the new House took over.)
“I just don’t understand what makes an american anti-american . The way I see it from the people on the far right, you are anti-american if you don’t agree with the far right. It is the American way to have different parties, different point of views, checks and balances.”
It is the American way to, not so much have different parties or points of view (though that’s going to be the case to some extent), but to have the freedom to speak your mind so that you can challenge government when it violates the individual’s unalienable rights.
See, the Founders had an agenda to advance a particular ideology about the nature of man and his relationship to any other man. This agenda included individual liberty, property rights, that government was needed to secure the rights of their respective societies, and that since government is funded by the production of its society, government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed.
I wouldn’t dream of trying to silence anyone for their far Leftist views because I know that kind of freedom is required in order to stave off tyrannical government.
Socialists do not believe in individual liberty and property rights, but collective rights (another way of saying “majority rule”, or democracy [which we are not, because democracies violate the individual liberty of the minority]).
Americans welcome Socialists to the marketplace of ideas because their views need to be, and can only be, corrected there.
“Obama is very liberal, I will certianly give you that, but liberal does not = anti-american, liberal has been around since the birth of America.”
As @decendentof56 noted, Liberal has a different meaning now, than it did before, so now it DOES mean anti-American. See here for an explanation.
Defining and Understanding the Left
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1217
“But sine you a asked, she pushed the lie about death panals in health care. And she has insinuated that the presited is not a citezin.”
End of life planning, in the context of government regulations on health care, requires government to consider whether grandma can be kept alive a little bit longer on the amount of money left in the pool of money, which, in the case of Obamacare, belongs to the different participating insurance companies, collectively.
See here:
Return of ‘Death Panels’? Obama to Enact End-of-Life Planning for Medicare
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/return-of-death-panels-obama-to-enact-end-of-life-planning-for-medicare/
You might think that because the pool of money is owned by a collective in the private sector, that free market people would be ok with this. But the fact that the government would be forcing these insurance companies to share the risks of guaranteed insurance coverage, and because the cost-saving nature of insurance requires that not everyone can be covered all the time (which is cheaper than being guaranteed health care by paying the doctor, directly), both the participating insurance companies and the doctors whose services they cover, will be economically crippled, and then fewer people will have health care.
Obama knows Obamacare will fail, because he’s using it as a transition step to a complete government takeover of health care.
See below.
Obama Holds Health Care Forum in Portsmouth
http://www.nhpr.org/node/12592
“Transitioning a system is a very difficult and costly and lengthy enterprise. It’s not like you could turn on a switch and you go from one system to another.”
Glenn Beck: What Changed Dennis Kucinich’s Mind?
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/38077/
“It is my belief that not just politically but also economically, it’s better for us to start getting a system in place — a universal health care system signed into law by the end of my first term as president and build off that system to further — to make it more rational — by the way, Canada did not start off immediately with a single-payer system. They had a similar transition step.”
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:15pm@kloweeb,
“Why say over and over he is not a citizen, he is muslim …”
While he is a citizen, he works against his country (see my earlier post)
And while he is not a Muslim, he is currently showing favoritism to Muslims, and dangerously so. See here.
The Man Behind the Mosque
Report Post »Detailed look at Imam Rauf’s history of radical rhetoric
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/index.html#/v/4309025/the-man-behind-the-mosque/
A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:24pm@kloweeb,
“Why say over and over … he is a racist.”
Glenn Beck walked back his accusation that Obama is racist, by I still do believe he is – as with anyone else who finds identity in the color of their skin, as Obama does.
“I love how someone on here said that he “plays the race card” becasue he said he doesn’t look like all the othier presidents on the bills. He doesn’t, that’s a fact.”
Ahh, but since he DOES look like a HUMAN, like anyone else who’s been on our currency, it’s not worth bringing up …
UNLESS, of course, the point is to draw attention to the color of his skin as compared to anyone else who’s been on our currency. Which is a racist point to make.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:28pm@GhostOfJeffersonot
When I said that Obama was not the first to name Czars it was at another person’s post. I responded to that person.
You did not reference anything saying will be death panals. Decissions need to be made about health care for everyone, specifying who that will be left to does not at all mean they will be deciding who lives or dies. People make those decissions now. And i have news for you, the private company you are relying on to make compasionate decission about a person who developes a disease that is expensive to treat already make those decissions. So i guess you can say that they have “Death panals” if you are using rational that if someone has to make fiscal decissions regarding healthcare is in charge of death panals.
You also just regertitated a bunch of Fox News rhetoric. I said to show me it in the bill.
Further more, I said far right. I think there are many great and important aspects of the republican party. Fiscal responsibility is imparative to our country. I have absalutely no issue with conservative people. My very close friend is a woman who lived in a communist country until she was 13. She is conservative in every way. She is well educated and speaks passionatly and informitivly about her political views. Although we often disagree, i can see her point and often take it into consideration. my husband’s best friend from birth is just right of center, he is very fiscally conservative, although he is a Christian, he does not take relegion into politics. It appears that the far right today, are the people that instead of having educated debates choose to use, or be persuated by, fear tactics. Using death panals and ethnicity instead of actual political issues. These are the poeple who often state that they do not like “leftists” which means anybody who does not think like them. That is dangerous. I have strong beliefs. But i realize that this country would not work if there were not checks and balances. I am always open to the opposing point oof view, given that it is based on facts and not feelings and fear.
Report Post »DarthVader
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:31pmShe’s Flying Mammal Doodoo Crazy!!! Oh no, now she’ll want to investigate me for being Anti-American.
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_pN2IPAw6E
kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:57pm@A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
That is not racist, it is racial. To pretend that it makes no difference to anyone in America between Obama and any other white president is ignorant. I hate to use that word so much, but it fits. It would be ignoring the fact that there are people who care that he is not white. Who are aftaid that he has a different back ground then the “average american” as Orielly would put it. If he were John Johnson, another white guy, birth certificates and religion would have never been brought up. It is not racist for him to point that out, it is confronting reality.
To be clear, I do not think that all birthers are racist. I do not at all believe that the tea party is racist. But I think racial fears have been exploited. People fear what is different from them. It is easy to exploit that. Espicially in a politically correct age where people are ashemed to admit it.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 1:57pm@kloweeb
“When I said that Obama was not the first to name Czars it was at another person’s post. I responded to that person.”
And when you responded to that person, you quite incorrectly identified the initial source of Presidential appointed Czars as being Reagan. Clearly not the case, hence the correction.
“You did not reference anything saying will be death panals. ”
Ooooh, you want the actual words “Death Panels”. I see. You just want the words. Ok, the bill does not say “Death Panels” explicitly in those words. Of course H.R. 1 creates a panel which is charged with allowing government bureaucrats to decide if life saving treatment gets withheld from individuals, and if that treatment is withheld the life will terminate. But they don’t explicitly call it a Death Panel.
Well won point for you. Semantics for the win.
“Decissions need to be made about health care for everyone, specifying who that will be left to does not at all mean they will be deciding who lives or dies. ”
So if they withhold treatment from grandma because she‘s 101 and had a full life and that withholding of treatment causes her to expire where she wouldn’t otherwise, that doesn’t *mean* that they caused her to die. Ok, got it.
“People make those decissions now.”
Yes, privately, at the discretion of the person receiving the treatment.
“And i have news for you, the private company you are relying on to make compasionate decission about a person who developes a disease that is expensive to treat already make those decissions. ”
Currently, you are not forced to belong to an insurance company that you feel may work against your interests. The government makes no such provision, once they’re in charge, you have no discretion nor option, their word is law, period. See the difference?
“So i guess you can say that they have “Death panals” if you are using rational that if someone has to make fiscal decissions regarding healthcare is in charge of death panals.”
And I did already, of course noting that we’ll have no recourse and cannot “change companies” once the government gets that final say. Quite a chilling world to want to create if ask me. Thank you for ceding the point, ultimately.
“You also just regertitated a bunch of Fox News rhetoric. I said to show me it in the bill.”
Um, no I didn’t. I did not reference Fox, thanks. It’s an Aristotelian “Necessarily” that you’re missing in this context I think. Disagreement != Fox News *Necessarily*.
“Further more, I said far right.”
A distinction without a meaning, since any major philosophical disagreement could cause that label to be applied. You’d likely label me “far right” based on some of the philosophical axioms I hold. Yet, alas, that would be incorrect.
“I think there are many great and important aspects of the republican party. Fiscal responsibility is imparative to our country.”
Well see, that‘s the rub isn’t it? Fiscal responsibility is not the forte of the GOP when it’s controlled by “moderates”. In fact, the GOP once it’s in full power tends to run up amazing deficits. They are not fiscally responsible by any stretch of the imagination. It is only the new breed, tea party types that have been calling for actual fiscal responsibility the last few years, usually to the chagrin of the establishment GOP. Their attempts at implementing actual fiscal responsibility has resulted, of course, in riots by the left.
“I have absalutely no issue with conservative people.”
Their war mongering and some of their social positions wear on my nerves at times. That said, by and large I tend to trust your average conservative more in real life terms than most liberals I know, who leave me wanting most of the time philosophically.
“My very close friend is a woman who lived in a communist country until she was 13. She is conservative in every way. She is well educated and speaks passionatly and informitivly about her political views. Although we often disagree, i can see her point and often take it into consideration.”
Many people who fled from communism (or were brought here by their parents from it) are passionately anti-progressive, and with good reason, they had to live the life progressives want to force on us, and they know where it leads. You don’t have to see too many people machine gunned trying to get over a barbed wire fence to figure out that Leftist Utopia is actually a dystopian nightmare.
“my husband’s best friend from birth is just right of center, he is very fiscally conservative, although he is a Christian, he does not take relegion into politics.”
Sounds like a decent man.
“It appears that the far right today, are the people that instead of having educated debates choose to use, or be persuated by, fear tactics.”
I’ve heard that repeated endlessly about the “far right” in letters from left wing organizations soliciting me for donations in order to fend off those nasty right wingers. Funny ol’ thing, life. :)
“Using death panals and ethnicity instead of actual political issues.”
Well, the first part is a valid concern. The second part, the “ethnicity”, is tossed up at every opportunity by the Left too, so that’s something I view as human nature more than belonging to any given ideology.
“These are the poeple who often state that they do not like “leftists” which means anybody who does not think like them. That is dangerous.”
That’s not dangerous. There is nothing, anywhere, that states that you have to like somebody who holds views contrary to your own. However, “not liking” is not the same as advocating violence. If it were, the Wisconsin union thugs with their cross-hair and “hang’em!” signs would all be in jail today.
“I have strong beliefs. But i realize that this country would not work if there were not checks and balances”
Checks and balances in government are good. Requiring me to “like” people who are fundamentally against many of my life beliefs, is not good. As an individual it is up to my discretion alone who I choose to like and not like. Thank goodness, I say, because I have no desire to buddy up to a Hitler, Stalin or Mao, in fact I view holding those people and people like them in contempt something of a mark of character.
” I am always open to the opposing point oof view, given that it is based on facts and not feelings and fear.”
Sure, me too.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:11pm@kloweeb,
“There are not death panals in Healthcare reform. The fact that you believe that shows your ignorance, that is nonsence. Please show me in the bill where there is anything resembling death panals. The actual bill, not a news segment from Fox news saying there is.”
You can find it here.
H.R.3200
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:
Section 1233
“(B) The level of treatment indicated under subparagraph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treatment to an indication to limit some or all or specified interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may include indications respecting, among other items—
“(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac or pulmonary problems;
“(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer to a hospital or remaining at the current care setting;
“(iii) the use of antibiotics; and
“(iv) the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration.”
Report Post »docgreen
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:28pm@kloweeb
@Ghostof
You know In order to understand it you have to pass it! Hmmm, maybe if you two fools had any brains you’d be dangerous! No it doesn’t talk about dealth panels; let me say this. When they put a group together to oversee what medical attention you get, the young, the old, and the handicapped will get the short fall! So, it doesn’t come right out and say it, but yet in order to cut costs this will happen! Mark my words! Maybe you should read this story! And then you can spout off! Ignorant, Imbiciles!
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/british-socialized-hc-official-some-premature-babies-should-be-left-to-die/comment-page-2/#comment-762211
Last I want you to explain to me how you cover 40million more people for less money, without reducing the level of care someone gets! Oh, I’m sure you have waited an hour or longer in Urgent Care; so tell me, if you waited that long then, how long are you going to have to wait to get seen when they add 40million more? You two Are F-ing Idiots! I hope you two are the first to utilize and get put on a ventilator; I’d be the first one too turn it off, with Obama’s Health Care program!
Report Post »PatriotComeLately
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:29pmPlease, please, please stop the discussion with KLOWEEB. He/she is obviously a product of the government school system, and apart from the lame talking points, their lack of correct spelling and grammar really jars as I read through the thread
Report Post »gdnctr
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:34pmkloweeb
i’ll say it, i think anybody who perpetuates horrible lies about the president of the United States of America is anti american.
Really? What “lies” are you talking about? Michelle speaks the Truth about Obummer & Co.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:38pm@GhostOfJefferson
my friend has not issue with “leftists” or progressives. She thinks the people who say liberals are communists are crazy. She has seen it, she has been there. And yes my husband’s friend is a very good man, so is my husband, who is liberal.
I can see how you like Glenn beck. No fact in your statements. Just feelings and opinions. Yes you are right that you are not forced to like peoplein this great country . But many Beck follwers have been manipulated into hating liberals. and i do not use the word hate lightly. I have seen people on here insinuate liberals kill there children. In microwaves, not abortion. So to be clear I meant it is dangerous to be manipulated into hating a very large group of americans. It is dangerous to be manipulated into believing that because someone opposes your point of view they are coming to get you. It means that a group of people who care enough about there country to get involved have been talked into closing there minds. And closed minds don’t solve real problems. It makes for a combatitive conversation. How many issues have you solved going into a conversation thinking, everything this person thinks is wrong and I am just not going to listen. You take that to a whole other level when you go into a conversation thinking, this person is against me and my way of life, they want me dead, they want to enslave me and kill my grandma and mentaelly ill brother. Bek has done a wonderful job making sure none of his followers listen to any opposing views.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:43pm@docgreen
“@kloweeb
@Ghostof
You know In order to understand it you have to pass it! Hmmm, maybe if you two fools had any brains you’d be dangerous! No it doesn’t talk about dealth panels; let me say this. When they put a group together to oversee what medical attention you get, the young, the old, and the handicapped will get the short fall! So, it doesn’t come right out and say it, but yet in order to cut costs this will happen! Mark my words! Maybe you should read this story! And then you can spout off! Ignorant, Imbiciles!”
Pardon me? Polish your reading comprehension skills some before spouting insults and ad hominem please. You clearly did not notice that I said that there *were* death panels (if not explicitly called that, I cited H.R.1′s creation of said panel).
“http://www.theblaze.com/stories/british-socialized-hc-official-some-premature-babies-should-be-left-to-die/comment-page-2/#comment-762211″
A story which you’ll notice I commented on. What was my comment please? Go look.
“Last I want you to explain to me how you cover 40million more people for less money, without reducing the level of care someone gets! Oh, I’m sure you have waited an hour or longer in Urgent Care; so tell me, if you waited that long then, how long are you going to have to wait to get seen when they add 40million more? You two Are F-ing Idiots! I hope you two are the first to utilize and get put on a ventilator; I’d be the first one too turn it off, with Obama’s Health Care program!”
Holy crap. I‘m arguing against Obama’s socialized medicine, and you don’t realize it, then claim you want to have me killed by your own hand in a hypothetical future.
Again, if you’re going to spout that amount of vitriol, be sure of your target before you pull the trigger. Good gravy.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:46pm@docgreen
My goodness you are a hateful little person.
Having seen my father on a ventilator, and then die of cancer. I wouldn’t wish that on anybody. God bless you and yoru loved ones, I hope you never have to experience what I have. Althoug i have had heated words with Ghostof is sincerely hope he/she never experiences anything like that. I also hope he/she hasn’t because I would not want your hateful words to bring the image to another persons mind that you just brought to mine.
I hope you can loose all the hate you have, I will pray for you.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 2:56pm@kloweeb
“my friend has not issue with “leftists” or progressives.”
I can understand Leftists. Progressives on the other hand have been more or less modeled after Fabian Socialists from England. There’s not a lot of disagreement between Fabian Socialists and Communists, and what difference there is in in matters of implementation, not goals.
“She thinks the people who say liberals are communists are crazy. ”
And she would be correct on that count. Progressives on the other hand, well, they’re close enough to not be far off the X ring in applying such a label, if one looks at the goals if not methods.
“She has seen it, she has been there.”
I’m well traveled and was a rather…traveled…military member way back when. I know what communism and socialism do to a people. It’s ugly.
“I can see how you like Glenn beck.”
I like lots of people. Beck is right on some things, wrong on others. I don’t idolize the man, but I don‘t detract from him where he’s right like many of the folks on your side of the fence do. Give a man his due where earned, I figure, it’s the best way to maintain intellectual honesty.
” No fact in your statements. Just feelings and opinions.”
H.R. 1 is not a fact? The quote from Obama is not a fact (I heard it when he said it btw)? Cass Sunstein’s published and stated methods of health care cost containment are not a fact? I had no idea. Thank you for the correction.
“Yes you are right that you are not forced to like peoplein this great country.”
Yes, I know.
“But many Beck follwers have been manipulated into hating liberals.”
Correction. Many on the right have always had a high level of contempt for the progressive left. And rightly so. This kind of talk isn’t new, I’ve heard it in gun shops and from business owners for decades. Welcome to the real world, I guess, where most of us don’t like progressivism. All hail the interwebs. :)
“and i do not use the word hate lightly. I have seen people on here insinuate liberals kill there children. In microwaves, not abortion.”
Oh? Got a link to back that up with?
“So to be clear I meant it is dangerous to be manipulated into hating a very large group of americans.”
I see a lot of people here praying for progressives. There are the haters to be sure. But there is no One Attitude I’m afraid.
“It is dangerous to be manipulated into believing that because someone opposes your point of view they are coming to get you.”
Why do you not credit people with having active minds, I wonder? If they dislike your viewpoint, clearly they’ve been manipulated? Where flies free will then? Strange.
“It means that a group of people who care enough about there country to get involved have been talked into closing there minds. And closed minds don’t solve real problems. It makes for a combatitive conversation.”
I’ve seen progressive/far leftists win argument after argument over the decades through cowing their opposition with some kind of presumptive collective guilt. Those days are drawing to a close I’m afraid, and there is no shame in standing up and saying “no more, this is it, you have no power here any longer”. It‘s only closed minded if you don’t take time to actually understand your adversary. And frankly, since your President even is known to turn a fun phrase such as “if they hit us, we hit back twice as hard“ and ”we must punish our enemies” when referring to Americans, and you say nothing about that, then I believe your outrage is a bit selective.
“How many issues have you solved going into a conversation thinking, everything this person thinks is wrong and I am just not going to listen.”
Oh, clearly that‘s not good if you don’t know the other party’s thoughts. If you know their thoughts though, if they’ve spent decades outlining them in no uncertain way, then there is no call to pretend that they mean you well when they don’t. To do such would be suicidal.
“You take that to a whole other level when you go into a conversation thinking, this person is against me and my way of life, they want me dead, they want to enslave me and kill my grandma and mentaelly ill brother.”
It’s not that they want that, necessarily, rather, their policies will bring about those ends regardless of their intentions now. That’s what I fight against, and I don’t care how nice the intentions.
“Bek has done a wonderful job making sure none of his followers listen to any opposing views”
Interesting again. The opposition to you is brainwashed and cannot think, as demonstrated by the fact that they do not agree with you. Very interesting.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 3:23pm@Ghostof
I have repetedly said that I respect opposing points of view. It is not all conservatives or libraterians that I take issue with, It is the specific group of people who choose not to listen to anything other then far right conspiracies. I am very open to listening to opposing points of view. I find it very enlightning. It would be boring if everybody thought like me. I must admit i have been swayed by my conservative friends on issues in the past. i am grateful to have access to their point of view.
I am interested in hearing your definition of “progressive” hontestly I was under the impression that if you are planning on voting for Obama in 2012 you are a progressive, in the tea party’s opinion. i don‘t htink that’s a far jump, since it appears to be a tea party belief that Obama is a socialist, progressive who is trying to take over the world. Now if I am correct in my assumption then that would make nearly all democrats, progressives. i will admit that is up for debate, as I do not know your definition of progressive. Bringing me back to my origional question, honestly, what is your definition of a “progressive”? As a self described liberal, would I be a progressive, and thus someone to be feard?
Report Post »docvet
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 3:25pmLets really spin up the libs – Cain/Bachman or vice versa in 2012.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 3:29pm@PatriotComeLately
Report Post »i actually went to private schools right up to college. I apologise for my incorrect spelling and grammer. I am on a laptop that sometimes moves my curser as I am typing. I am also doing several things at once, so I am typing fast and then submitting before proof reading. As this is a blog and not a work product I am not too worried about it.
kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 3:36pm@GhostOfJefferson
Here is the statement from a poster insinuating obama supporters microwave their children.
thejackal
Posted on February 17, 2011 at 11:14pm
At least the baby was only duct taped. Obama supporters like Caira here often do far worse to their children then just bind them. For example placing kids in microwaves, apparently is such a prevelant thing that the cops have a term for it…. “Ghetto Lobster”. Unfortunately, this is as real as it gets. Maybe these Obama supporters just need more ‘redistributive efforts’ to help themselves along. Then they could hire babysitters, instead of using tape, when they go on their crack runs.”
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/another-young-mom-arrested-for-duct-taping-baby/
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 3:41pm@kloweeb,
“That is not racist, it is racial. To pretend that it makes no difference to anyone in America between Obama and any other white president is ignorant.”
To pretend that there are a few white people who also find identity in the color of their skin, like the black community does, is ignorant?
You need to make a distinction between the color of people’s skin, and the beliefs they may hold about the color of their own skin.
“I hate to use that word so much, but it fits. It would be ignoring the fact that there are people who care that he is not white. Who are aftaid that he has a different back ground then the “average american” as Orielly would put it.”
(O‘Reilly’s views would be off, if he said that.)
If by background, you mean PERSONAL experiences, then that is not a racial issue, except to say that there were many INDIVIDUALS who held a view about black people which allowed them to oppress people of color.
The relevance of mentioning that they were individuals is that only those racist individuals who oppressed people of color are actually guilty of anything, and are actually capable of making restitution. Further, only those black people who were directly oppressed can receive restitution – and only then from the individuals who oppressed them.
Once either individual dies, the issue of racism becomes moot.
But if you make the same mistake as the Weather Underground, and include in your definition of “background” the racism experienced by the ancestors of ANY black person – who may not have experienced any racism at all, themselves – then what you are doing is perpetuating a racial class warfare. This is what Bill Ayers, the Weather Underground, Obama, et al, have either failed to realize, or choose to ignore.
Your race CANNOT define you, unless you choose to self-identify as such. It doesn’t control what you believe or how you behave.
The solution to racism should have always been to convince people that the color of their skin and their ancestors, were never able to define them.
We are individuals. There’s no such thing as a “white machine” that oppresses colored people, and there never was. Just like there’s really no such thing as the “black community”, which is a racist designation. If you decide you want to identify yourself by the color of your skin, even if there are many of you, you do so as an individual – again, because it’s not possible for the color of your skin to decide for you how you will live your life, or what you will believe.
Or, as Joyce, from Obama’s book, “Dreams from my Father”, said:
“[Joyce's] voice cracked, and I thought she was going to cry. “It’s not white people who are making me choose. Maybe it used to be that way, but now they’re willing to treat me like a person. No – it’s black people who always have to make everything racial. They’re the ones making me choose. They‘re the ones who are telling me that I can’t be who I am …”
“If he were John Johnson, another white guy, birth certificates and religion would have never been brought up. It is not racist for him to point that out, it is confronting reality.”
Piven is white. Bill Ayers is white. We try to expose them for the radicals they are, as well. No racism, there.
“To be clear, I do not think that all birthers are racist. I do not at all believe that the tea party is racist. But I think racial fears have been exploited. People fear what is different from them. It is easy to exploit that. Espicially in a politically correct age where people are ashemed to admit it.”
Nobody fears “differences”. People fear things that go against what is perceived to be in their best interest.
I’m not concerned, as Bertha Lewis would have you believe, that “white people” are becoming the “minority”.
Yawn.
Of course, what Bertha Lewis means by colored and white people, is something different than mere skin color. What Lewis refers to is the racist ideology held by those who do choose to identify themselves by the color of their skin.
See here.
ACORN’s Bertha Lewis Makes Socialist Case for Open Immigration
Report Post »http://www.breitbart.tv/acorns-bertha-lewis-makes-socialist-case-for-open-immigration/
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 3:49pm@kloweeb
“I have repetedly said that I respect opposing points of view. It is not all conservatives or libraterians that I take issue with, It is the specific group of people who choose not to listen to anything other then far right conspiracies.”
Um, ok, then why are we belaboring this point? I have no time for conspiracy theorists. On the other hand, I do believe that people can plan and execute plans, and I also believe that human social groups can and often do build on the accomplishments of their predecessors and move forward from that.
“I am very open to listening to opposing points of view. I find it very enlightning. It would be boring if everybody thought like me. I must admit i have been swayed by my conservative friends on issues in the past. i am grateful to have access to their point of view.”
I don’t think it would be boring if people held the same politics I had, but that wouldn’t necessitate them agreeing with me personally about much at all, except the minimal political framework. The less people actually have to debate about the role of government out of necessity, the better in my view.
“I am interested in hearing your definition of “progressive” hontestly”
In my opinion, its base is a Fabian socialist dialogue from the 19th century Western European mindset, specifically ones present in England’s working classes, France‘s intelligentsia and Germany’s early 19th century social dialogue prior to Bismark’s consolidation of the German state, with some sprinklings from Hegel (the Hegelian Dialectic specifically as a policy tool), Schopenhauer, post-Lenin communist theory and other assorted minor thinkers since the mid 1900′s. It’s adherents claim to work for social equality and justice, and it claims to use scientific as opposed to non-scientific epistemological sources when formulating its axioms and policies. They differ from communists just as the Fabian socialists did, that is, the goals of a classless society where the means of production is owned by “the people” is agreed upon, however the implementation of such a goal differs between the two, with communists preferring immediate violent revolution and “struggle”, while Fabians take a more piece meal long term approach that lacks a short term violent revolutionary component. In practice of course, they end up both relying on brute force, brutality and de-humanizing the individual while glorifying the faceless collective to achieve their goals, and take little to no human facets into consideration *after* their paradigm is realized in a society.
“I was under the impression that if you are planning on voting for Obama in 2012 you are a progressive, in the tea party’s opinion.”
There is no monolithic tea party opinion, nor even much agreement on anything outside of a a few basic tenants (reduced government size, scope and reduced taxes seeming to be the common themes).
“i don‘t htink that’s a far jump, since it appears to be a tea party belief that Obama is a socialist, progressive who is trying to take over the world.”
It’s not a belief so much as a simple conclusion based off of judging his actions, associations and expressed words. I take the man at face value based on those things, and based on those things he’s clearly a strange mixture of Fascist and Socialist.
“Now if I am correct in my assumption then that would make nearly all democrats, progressives.”
No, not at all. There are plenty of Democrats who disagree with Obama but will vote for him rather than voting for a GOP or Libertarian candidate. Just like there are plenty of people who despised McCain but held their noses and pulled the lever for him in 2008. Again, you’re making a mistake in assuming an Aristotelian “Necessarily” in your rhetoric.
“i will admit that is up for debate, as I do not know your definition of progressive. Bringing me back to my origional question, honestly, what is your definition of a “progressive”? As a self described liberal, would I be a progressive, and thus someone to be feard?”
Liberals are not progressives necessarily, though all progressives hold *some* liberal positions. And I fear no man, thank you. Working against a horrid ideology doesn’t mean that I quiver in my bed and hide from shadows, thank you, but I’m well aware of my adversary and its intended goals and policies.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 3:52pm@A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
I meant to respond to you on this thread. Great posting thus far, thanks for the specific “panel” citations, as well as your wonderfully constructed posts against *all* forms of racism.
Slainte!
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 3:57pm@kloweeb
“Here is the statement from a poster insinuating obama supporters microwave their children.”
Thank you for the link. That is clearly a revolting thing to imply. I’m not hip to group all people together if I can help it, and that’s what he did by association. I disapprove of that and find it a nasty, hurtful tactic.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 4:17pm@GhostOfJefferson,
“Slainte!”
High fives, all around! Great discussion, everyone!
Report Post »veruca salt
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 4:49pmGhost, as somoeone who should just be ignored, I apparently got your attention. Thanks for the response. Yes, you’re correct my “welfare queen” statement was an ad hominem, but the fact remains that a woman who is staking herself out as a Tea Party leader, is, along with her family, latched on to the same government teat she rails against. Perhaps it‘s OK to take farm subsidies as long as you say you’re against them first.
Sunday morning, Gregory actually was being kind to Bachmann by allowing her, in a national forum, to walk back one of many disparaging statements about the president she’s built her reputation making (remember the $200K/day trip to India?). She could have taken advantage of this opportunity to appeal to a wider swath of the country than just her most rabid fans if she is really a serious presidential candidate, but she missed her chance. Outside of her fans, she will still be known as someone who makes off the cuff statements to rile up her base and these statements really make her look like a nitwit to the rest of the voting country. I know Blaze readers don‘t give credence to Politifact unless it’s trashing Maddow, but check out her Politifact file. Not too good. And yes, with the farm subsidies, she’s a hypocrite to boot.
Just because she trashes the president at every given opportunity and says she loves Jesus is no reason to suspend one’s critical thinking skills about this woman.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 4:51pm@GhostOfJefferson
Well thantk you. It is comforting to know that kind of talk is not the norm on this website. I do realize that is the point you have been trying to prove =-)
Being more specific about my question about your definition of a progressive, what is your definition of progressive in America today? I do agree with Obama’s politics. i do believe in social help and government mandates. i am grateful we have minimum wage and employee laws. If they weren’t in place we would have the very wealthy exploiting the middle class more so then they do already. The company I most recently worked for is hiring at minimum wage for a position that required at least a BA. You work with criminals in a psychological setting. It is sometimes hostile and the work load is spread incredibly thin. But when I left there were 200 appliants, because of the economy. If we did not have laws in place to protect workers, there is no way that company would pay minimum wage, i am all for capitialism and the American dream, but that doesn’t mean that the government should not be involved in any way. I am not a socialist. i am a liberal.
i was more interested in your definition of progressive and not websters. If I take what your opinion was after the definition you gave, i would deduce that if you like obama you are a progressive. Would I be right in that assumption?
Also as far as conspiracies go, do you believe that the president and other like minded government officials are conspiring to implement complete socialism to the united states and eventually the entire world? If so you would beliteve that there is a conspiricy. Thus making it a theory of a conspiricy or Conspiracy Theory. Glenn Beck definitly has a conspiracy theory. i do not believe anyone would dispute that he believes there is an elaborate conspiracy that will result in a caliphate. Even if it were totally proven to be true and the end started today, it would just show that the conspiring worked and the theory was proven true.
Report Post »docgreen
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 5:47pm@GhostOfJefferson
Sorry, if I had taken your Blog wrong! My sincerest Apology!…… Id wouldn’t want to ever take someones life, I guess Vent Up Frustration just got the Best of me!……
@kloweeb
Report Post »Kloweeb, I’ve seen lots of people in the same way your Father was, I’m sorry for your Loss, I want you to know we should Not Play God! Ever! So that same Hate you said I have, has to be understood in your position too! Its not US, who should decide who dies and whom lives!…
A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 5:53pm@kloweeb,
“I do agree with Obama’s politics. i do believe in social help and government mandates.”
Just about everyone believes in social help, you’ve had the wool pulled over your eyes.
The Right isn‘t typically against government funded social help because they’re greedy – although some are. We’re against those things because it is the private sector that creates all the wealth in the first place, and the best way to end poverty is not to take from the productive and give it to the less productive, but to set the economy free to innovate and produce a lot of wealth – because when the wealthy produce things, the prices come down.
Don’t be fooled by the phrase “income disparity”, because income disparity does not equal “poverty” – it does NOT. I can afford more things than I could before when those who can produce more do so.
See here.
Stossel Show – The Battle for the Future! (Part 5/6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa3ffFbcvkY
Also, do not be fooled by terms such as the “middle class”, or the “working class”, because in a truly free market society there’s no such thing – EVERYONE is free to own the means of production; and EVERYONE who trades anything in a free market works – ESPECIALLY the rich entrepreneur who worked to earn the capital he now uses to pay wages. And only rich people can pay wages.
“i am grateful we have minimum wage and employee laws. If they weren’t in place we would have the very wealthy exploiting the middle class more so then they do already.”
I am so glad you brought up the minimum wage, because I can help you understand what the Right is saying.
See, cash and wealth are two different things. And since cash is worthless, in and of itself, yet is pegged to the value of actual goods and services (more or less), it increases and decreases in value with the number of dollars available just like any other good or service, yet it’s value is completely relative to the goods and services it is used to buy.
In other words, if there were only 100 dollars in circulation to represent all the available goods and services available in the market, then a single penny would buy quite a bit.
And in still other words, if you could buy a car for 10 dollars, then you could also buy a ton of cheeseburgers with it, also.
What the minimum wage does is both decrease the value of the dollar, since it takes more of them to pay the workers you use to make products (which increases the number of dollars it takes to buy those products); AND it allows other countries to underbid us by simply charging less than the minimum wage for labor.
And it also means that business owners will choose to let some of their employees go to reduce the cost of production – and since the business belongs to the owner, they are right to let their employees go, since businesses DO NOT exist to create jobs, but to make money for the people who created it.
The minimum wage only seems like a good idea because it takes a little while for it to affect the entire market – eventually, though, all pricess rise, and then you have to raise the minimum wage again (if you don‘t know that it’s damaging).
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 6:09pm@docgreen
Thank you for your sentiment. Given that you have seen something that terrible over and over I can certainly understand your passion for the issue.
The truth is there are no death panals in the bill. I would be the first to be out rallying against them if there were. I understand the concern about government deciding who gets medical or not. They would only be deciding who gets government medical. The same way they do now. there will still be private insurance companies, and thanks to this bill, they can not discriminate against pre existing conditions. That is huge to me. That means that people with cancer won’t be denied health care becasue they have cancer. I think that’s the exact opposite of a death panal. If the bill were meant to weed out the week, people with pre existing conditions would be the first to go.
Obviousley you disagree. And if you are as passionate about this because of a good service you do for ill people, God bless you. I am sorry for what you have seen.
Report Post »kloweeb
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 6:25pm@A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
That is called inflation and it happens in a capitalist society. What would be your answer to that? We should all live on a commune and trade services and supplies and have money have not value?
“Just about everyone believes in social help, you’ve had the wool pulled over your eyes.”
So in your opinion, becasue i care that the poor children and jobless people in this country have help when needed, a warm bed and food when they are homeless and foster families when they are abused, I have had the wool pulled over my eyes? These are things I decided by myself well before I started paying attention to politics. I worked in the community at 18 years old, I saw suffering children. What do you suggest we do for them?
The terms working class and middle class are very much alive in this society. How would you classify the difference between the wealthy, the average citizen and the poor?
Report Post »Toastery
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 6:32pmStick to your accusation, Michelle!!
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 6:35pm@kloweeb,
“there will still be private insurance companies, and thanks to this bill, they can not discriminate against pre existing conditions. That is huge to me. That means that people with cancer won’t be denied health care becasue they have cancer.”
The benefit of private insurance companies is that they can compete in technology, efficiency, and prices. But because of Obamacare, they are forced to share the risks of guaranteed coverage.
What you’re not seeing is that health care actually costs doctors and hospitals something, both in the debt they owe to their schools, and in the time and energy they use to do their job – health care, therefore, is NOT a right.
Health insurance companies lower the cost of health care PRECISELY BECAUSE they do not cover everyone all the time. That’s how ALL insurance companies work.
You can still pretty much be guaranteed to receive health care if you can afford it – and if the government got out of the private sector’s way, it would create more wealth which would create both more jobs and lower prices.
Keep in mind that Obama is deliberately crippling the American economy. You should be mad at the Left, not the rich.
“That is huge to me. That means that people with cancer won’t be denied health care becasue they have cancer. I think that’s the exact opposite of a death panal. If the bill were meant to weed out the week, people with pre existing conditions would be the first to go.”
No one is denied health care, typically, if they can afford it. And keep in mind that the goal of health insurance companies IS NOT to provide health care, but to make health care as cheap as possible for everyone who’s using the insurance – both those who have cancer, and those who don’t.
If you can’t afford medical care, then you NEED insurance. But cancer patients aren’t the only ones who need insurance, and they aren’t the only ones who have signed up to receive insurance. The insurance companies are NOT being greedy, typically (though, I’m sure there are some that are), rather they are being thrifty.
You say, “They are being thrifty when it comes to people’s lives?” But what you‘re not seeing is that they are being thrifty when it comes to the lives of every person who has that company’s insurance. If all the terminal patients got the very best treatment health care could offer, and were covered by insurance, then that insurance company would quickly go out of business, and then NOBODY could get insurance unless they could pay the doctors and hospitals directly.
End the government regulations, and the private sector will take care of tech, efficiency, and prices – because it DOES cost health care workers something to do their job, and only the private sector can create the wealth to pay them.
Report Post »docgreen
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 6:59pm@kloweeb
Report Post »You still haven’t answered my question about cutting costs and the covering of more people! You talk about them not discriminating, Then why put in a Medical board that decides policy and procedures for cutting costs? Does that mean we instead of women getting mamograms at 40 we push that back to 50? See, they say these things but when the Time comes, their going to be deciding whom lives and whom dies! This has to happen to cut costs!
encinom
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 7:01pm@GhostofJefferson:
Oh? So when Obama said this:
“”that at least we (the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research) can let doctors know and your mom know that…this isn’t going to help. Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller.“ ”
What precisely was he referring to?
Since like most tea-baggers you are clueless about anuthing that happens outside of the militia compound, I went through this with my Dad, their comes a time with cancer or other terminal illnesses, where a cure is not possible, and care focuses on pain relief not recovery. The end of life consult was to reimburse doctors for having these discusstions with families, to have the talk where the reality of situation is presented and the options explored.
But you are correct when you say there are death panels, only they are not in DC, but in corporate parks where insurance companys set policy and deny claims for bigger year end bonuses and dividends.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 7:04pm@kloweeb,
“That is called inflation and it happens in a capitalist society. What would be your answer to that? We should all live on a commune and trade services and supplies and have money have not value?”
Inflation happens in all societies which trade – the value of goods and services inflate and deflate, like they’re supposed to, when the amount of it increases or demand decreases, or when the amount decreases, or demand increases, respectively. If everyone is growing carrots, it’s going to take a lot of them to buy something else.
The problem with money, though, is that, unlike with carrots which do have actual value, money is worthless. So the number of dollars you have only matters after it represents something of real value. Again, if 20 dollars buys a car, then a penny buys lunch for a few months.
Please read this, because this is what both Bush‘s and Obama’s policies are about to do to the American economy, if the government doesn’t stop spending.
Gonzalo Lira: What Hyperinflation Will Look Like In America
http://www.businessinsider.com/gonzalo-lira-what-hyperinflation-will-look-like-2010-9
“So in your opinion, becasue i care that the poor children and jobless people in this country have help when needed, a warm bed and food when they are homeless and foster families when they are abused, I have had the wool pulled over my eyes?”
No, that’s not the reason. The reason is because you don’t realize that the manner in which you propose to solve this problem actually hurts everyone – and it hurts the poor the most.
See here.
Stossel Show – The Tragedy Of The Commons! (Part 1/4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tlVHAr_02c
“These are things I decided by myself well before I started paying attention to politics. I worked in the community at 18 years old, I saw suffering children. What do you suggest we do for them?”
What needs to be done is to get the government out of the way so that people can be free to produce more and lower prices and innovate. This creates MANY more opportunities for jobs, and therefore charity.
“The terms working class and middle class are very much alive in this society. How would you classify the difference between the wealthy, the average citizen and the poor?”
The term “working class” makes an arbitrary distinction between those who work for someone else, and those who employ or use capital to produce wealth.
In a free society, people are free to earn capital to begin producing capital for themselves, or to work for someone else – and everyone is susceptible to the markets in a free society, such that a worker can become an employer, and a business owner can become poor.
But because of the government regulations, the private sector is not free, and our economy is suffering because of it.
The term middle class is meaningless in a free market society for the same reason “working class” is meaningless – it’s because no one is prohibiting you from being productive, or guaranteeing that you WILL be productive (thus the incentive to work harder, innovate, and lower prices).
And so “middle class” simply becomes a matter of where you’re at right now – you don’t have to stay there.
Report Post »ColtAnaconda
Posted on March 7, 2011 at 9:24pmShe better watch out, obamer will be coming around lookin for somebodie’s ass to kick. sure dont want to be bringin no knife to a gun fight.now that bammy has got that car out of the ditch, she is now gonna be regular rider in the backseat.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on March 8, 2011 at 8:01amWhy can’t the people see this Sen. Bachmann is dead on in her comments about this adminstration. What I can figure out is why so many don’t see it.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on March 8, 2011 at 8:12amHey kloweeb, I thought Bush senior was anti-American when he talked about establishing the NWO. I voted for Clinton because of that one thing. And while Obama has come out and said the same tyhing he has hinted around at it and his major supporters do believe in a one world government. YOU CAN’T GET MORE ANTI-AMERICAN OR ANTI-CONSTITUTIONAL THAN THAT HERE’S TO THE KICKER THE SAME LEFTIST THAT ATTACKED BUSH SR. FOR THE NEW WORLD ORDER ARE NOW SUPPORTING IT UNDER OBAMA. More over even if the NWO isn’t in Obama or the leftist true agenda what is cloward and pivens? Socialist revolution,communist revolution…it‘s certainly isn’t a Constituitional Republic. As Obama as circumvented congressional authority to push his agenda which is actually a circumvention of the people authority.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 8, 2011 at 9:03am@kloweeb
“Well thantk you. It is comforting to know that kind of talk is not the norm on this website. I do realize that is the point you have been trying to prove =-)”
I don‘t think that’s the norm on most political web sites. It’s kind of a revolting thing, nobody should tolerate that.
“Being more specific about my question about your definition of a progressive, what is your definition of progressive in America today?”
Thought I answered that?
“I do agree with Obama’s politics. i do believe in social help and government mandates.”
“Social help” is not in question, humans are compassionate social beings. In question is the means to produce that help. Hence the difference between political ideologies across the spectrum. Some, myself for example, believe the best way to help others is to do so without force and coercian from outside forces (government). Others, do not.
“i was more interested in your definition of progressive and not websters.”
That was my definition. I think for myself, and quite deeply on some topics. Politics and philosophy are topics that interest me, so I prefer to be as precise and accurate as I can about my words, in order to clearly define what I do and do not adhere to in life. I’m not a bumper sticker catch phrase kind of guy, sorry.
“If I take what your opinion was after the definition you gave, i would deduce that if you like obama you are a progressive. Would I be right in that assumption?”
False. Absolutely false. I try to present an accurate definition as best as I understand. In doing so without ad hominem or slurs I suppose it may look like I’m being kind to the political ideology. I’m not, just trying to be as clear as I can. Never had much use for ad hominem or trash talking to be honest, so I’m sorry if this causes confusion.
“Also as far as conspiracies go, do you believe that the president and other like minded government officials are conspiring to implement complete socialism to the united states and eventually the entire world? ”
I don‘t think there’s a conspiracy as in some dark shady group, rather, I note that there are open groups calling for many to most of the socialist platform to be implemented in this nation. It’s not hidden or somehow suspect, it’s simply a fact of the matter.
“If so you would beliteve that there is a conspiricy. Thus making it a theory of a conspiricy or Conspiracy Theory. Glenn Beck definitly has a conspiracy theory. i do not believe anyone would dispute that he believes there is an elaborate conspiracy that will result in a caliphate. Even if it were totally proven to be true and the end started today, it would just show that the conspiring worked and the theory was proven true.”
Sounds like something you need to discuss with Beck.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 8, 2011 at 10:43amThis is going to sting.
I have to retract something I posted earlier.
I posted what I thought was the part of Obamacare that required “death panels” from HR3200. But that is not Obamacare.
The link for Obamacare is below, and I AM NOT ABLE TO CITE, AS OF YET, THE TEXT WHICH REQUIRES “DEATH PANELS”.
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.3590:
I’ll look into this further.
Report Post »Lost in the Flyover
Posted on March 8, 2011 at 2:28pm@KLOWEEB.. I just have one question that maybe you can help me out with. Is Obama running Trumka or is Trumka running Obama, who is directing who? I know who holds the campaign purse strings, and possibly an extra set of keys to the White House.
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