Bachmann Under Fire Amid Controversial ‘Pray the Gay Away’ Allegations
- Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:30pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Presidential campaigns are bound to bring about controversy, as media outlets seek bombshell stories that further shed light on candidates’ character, habits and likings. In the latest campaign controversy, Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann — a woman who is no stranger to critique — is facing questions surrounding a clinic she owns with her husband, Dr. Marcus Bachmann.
Two of the clinic’s former patients — Andrew Ramirez and John Becker – are accusing Bachmann Counseling & Associates of engaging in a controversial methodology known as “reparative therapy.” This form of counseling encourages gay patients to turn to prayer and the Bible to try and rid themselves of same-sex attraction. Some sources claim that Dr. Bachmann has denied that he employs this at the clinic, yet new video purportedly shows this form of treatment being offered just weeks ago:
Back in 2004, after telling his mother and father that he was gay, Ramirez was sent to Bachmann & Associates for counseling and treatment. It was at the clinic that the young man claims he was faced and treated with the controversial reparative therapy. The Nation has more:
From the outset, Ramirez says, his therapist—one of roughly twenty employed at the Lake Elmo clinic—made it clear that renouncing his sexual orientation was the only moral choice. “He basically said being gay was not an acceptable lifestyle in God’s eyes,” Ramirez recalls. According to Ramirez, his therapist then set about trying to “cure” him. Among other things, he urged Ramirez to pray and read the Bible, particularly verses that cast homosexuality as an abomination, and referred him to a local church for people who had given up the “gay lifestyle.” He even offered to set Ramirez up with an ex-lesbian mentor.
The second “patient,” Becker, a gay rights activist who lives in Vermont, headed to the clinic last month with a hidden camera. His goal? To pose as a patient who was looking for a “cure” to his same-sex attraction. Then, he planned to expose (which he is now doing) what his counselor advised. Becker, who works for a gay rights organization, posted information about the experience on the group’s web site:
I was advised to find a heterosexual “accountability buddy” as I struggled to increase my attraction to women and decrease my attraction to men. I was to confide in, pray with, and be held accountable to this person.
Bachmann & Associates sells a book written by Twin Cities minister and self-proclaimed “ex-lesbian” Janet Boynes. This book chronicles her supposed journey “out of the lesbian lifestyle.” Next to the stack of books was a prominently-displayed, typewritten note that read, “Janet is a friend. I recommend this book as she speaks to the heart of the matter and gives practical insights of truth to set people free. – Marcus Bachmann, PhD.”
Both of these accounts, if true, do show a clinic that utilizes faith in addressing same-sex attraction. Thus, some are claiming that Dr. Bachmann has been dishonest in his claims that the clinic does not utilize reparative therapy. In 2006, he told CityPages.com the following:
“If someone is interested in talking to us about their homosexuality, we are open to talking about that. But if someone comes in a homosexual and they want to stay homosexual, I don’t have a problem with that.”
According to The Daily Beast:
In November 2005, Marcus Bachmann delivered a presentation called “The Truth About the Homosexual Agenda” at the Minnesota Pastors’ Summit. According to a gay activist who attended and spoke to City Pages, Bachmann’s presentation ended with testimony from three people who claimed they’d been gay and had been “cured” and become straight.
Below, listen to a controversial radio interview in which Dr. Bachmann is accused of calling homosexuals “barbarians:”
While it does seem as though Dr. Bachmann is distancing himself from reparative therapy, his statements regarding the clinic — though being thrust upon by the media — are relatively benign. Bachmann’s practice may very well be fine with patients maintaining their homosexuality. But, if a patient does, indeed, ask to be “cured,” perhaps counselors do comply and engage in controversial methods (there is no way to know for sure either way unless Becker releases an unedited version of the videos).
Considering Ramirez’s experience, one could easily assume that his parents spoke with the counselor beforehand and asked for reparative treatment (or, at the very least, spiritual guidance). In terms of Becker’s undercover operation, he was in control of his statements and may have also asked for the aforementioned treatment. But, these thoughts are merely conjecture. They do not address whether the controversial counseling methods are proper or hold any credence.
Neither Bachmann & Associates nor his wife’s political campaign office have commented yet on the controversy, but the presidential candidate does say that she is proud of the clinic’s work and of her ability to create jobs there. Following his undercover heist, Becker concludes:
“Based on my experiences at Bachmann & Associates, there can no longer be any doubt that Marcus Bachmann’s state- and federally-funded clinic endorses and practices reparative therapy aimed at changing a gay person’s sexual orientation, despite the fact that such “therapy” is widely discredited by the scientific and medical communities.”
As the campaign season progresses, the Bachmanns’ opinions on homosexuality will likely become more pronounced. And they may offend some. For example, in June, the presidential candidate was “glittered” by gay rights activists and her husband has been targeted and teased by gay web sites.
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Comments (442)
KickinBack
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:56pmWhy the controversy? I thought liberals didn’t believe in prayer.
Report Post »UBETHECHANGE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:00pmGeneralize much? Don’t be so ignorant.
Report Post »ICEDRAGONNITE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:18pmWhy care if some prays to eliminate homosexuals? Ever hear about Sodom?
Report Post »DieBambi
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:18pmControversy…. A Christian who believes the words of the BIBLE and acts on that faith. How terrible!
Report Post »Rugnuts
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:22pmwhy the controversy? noone forced anyone to do something thy didnt want to do.
Report Post »this guy “voluntarily” went to get reformed.
Clive
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:49pmi think the controversy would be that he took $150,000 of taxpayer money for him to “un gay” people. this kind of waste shouldn’t be tolerated by tea people.
Report Post »Progessives=Fail
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:09pmDoes anyone care what the left thinks anymore? I sure don’t. Last I heard gays are quite the minority, maybe they should stfu….I don’t care.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:21pm@HAPPYSTRETCHEDTHIN
Thank you for your response, it too is well-reasoned. And I agree – a body of scientists can be wrong. But to claim “it’s all politics” is inherently dishonest. Perhaps more studied will be done (and are being done on the presence of “nature versus nurture” if I’ve read correctly). As to whether the therapy works? I agree with your line of thinking: when it fails, it can fail catastrophically.
This therapy may help some people, although even most of the studies I’ve read make it seem unlikely to “cure” homosexuals (one of the criteria, for example, was thinking about gay partners less than 15% of the time while having heterosexual sex. That’d be… awkward for your partner, I bet). My primary issue is it‘s done by a clinic on the taxpayer’s dime, without endorsement, by folks who are unaccredited and/or unlicensed. We kinda got off-topic with the rest of the discussion.
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:24pmThere have always been cults that gather to pray to our Lord Jesus Christ that all humans become Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals, or Transgendered (LGTB).
Because these prayers have been heard, Jesus has created 10% of humans to be LGTB, as a kind of tithe back to those faithful worshipers. Those so ordained queers have no choice. But you can cure them by praying to Jesus harder than the original worshipers did.
Report Post »White Ninja
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:32pmI’m with Clive. Why ARE they being stae and federally funded? Advising someone to pray and turn to scripture if they seek out therapy isn’t the issue.
Report Post »HairOfTheDogSob
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:25pmHeavenly Father, I too Father ask to prayawaythe gay..and all those who pray this prayer say…____
Report Post »HairOfTheDogSob
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:27pmAmen!
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:30pmDrag Queen Loves Michele Bachmann; Asks For Hand In Marriage
Report Post »May 8, 2011
Bear
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:39pmI am for Gay rights but whats the big deal here???? A Gay Activist goes into a Christian clinic and asks for help not to be Gay any more and they tell him to pray it away?????That’s pretty Lame and the Gay Community should be careful not to get so petty in its activism,,I mean you already have the Stupid Gay Glitter attacks,,now you want America to be shocked that some one claiming to be Gay is getting the Christian way to get rid of it ,,at a Christian facility,,,,Thats pretty RetaRdEdd!
Report Post »Rightsofman
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:50pmAnd you’re forced at gunpoint to attend this clinic? Dragged in chains?
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:58pm1) I looked on the Web – and did not read anywhere that Bachmann & Associates is a Christian counseling center. On the web they are a private business. Marcus Bachmann, PhD. Clinic President, Clinical Therapist Education: MA – Regent University, VA PhD – Clinical Psychology, Union Graduate School, OH.
Report Post »2) They received $137,000.00 in Medicaid payments and $30,00.00 in Federal Job Grants in recent years.
3) Apparently they shut down their websites (bachmanncounselling.com) that were open this morning. (Too many hits?)
AZpatriotmama
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 5:34pmI think everyone is missing the point. The clinic is treating gays who come in for help because they don’t want to be gay. If they enjoyed being gay, why come to the clinic? Marcus Bachmann didn’t search them out; they came in on their own.
His clinic is trying to help people in their time of need in every way he can, including the power of God…and that’s a bad thing?
And because these people can only afford to pay with Medicaid the clinic should turn them away? Wow.
There is a story here but it’s a story of caring, not hatred. No wonder the Left can’t see it.
Report Post »AZpatriotmama
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 5:57pm@Clive, Locked and White Ninja:
So are you saying that gays in search of help should be turned away because they’re on Medicaid?
Do you have a problem with the taxpayer-paid Medicaid program in general, or just when it comes to gays desiring help and the Bachmanns?
Report Post »survivorseed
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 6:41pmIf Blazers are fine with the fact that he received their taxpayer money to pray away the gay (which is the definition of wasting money), it proves that you DON’T care about govt spending in general, just govt spending on liberals. This tea party group is getting smaller and more extreme every day. Bachmann is sharia in english.
Report Post »Dudley Do-Right
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 7:19pm“asks”
Report Post »AZpatriotmama
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:56pm@Survivorseed:
Ummm…what? You should rethink that.
Report Post »Grandmadar
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:09pmYes, why the controversy?? Please don’t be offended if someone perceives in their heart of hearts that they have a “problem” and want to find help to do away with the problem. Isn’t that what women do when they seek abortions to rid themselves of their “problem” and taxpayers pay for that all the time. So now it isn’t right if someone seeks the opposite kind of help on the taxpayers money?
Report Post »ILUVJESUS
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:00amYeah, liberals believe that ignorant people believe in God and pray. Why are they threatened by anyone saying that pray may deliver a gay person?
Report Post »snidley-whiplash
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:05amNo controversy here…………………….Not only do they not believe in prayer they are all gay!
Report Post »B_rad
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:11amTo those of you questioning why the Bachmann’s are taking federal dollars when Michele is talking about govt. waste; if the program is there and the business is legally utilizing it, what is the problem? It is not hypocritical to advocate to reign in spending while utilizing an existing program. It would be hypocritical to argue against this kind of spending and then pass spending that you take advantage of. Why should they let other businesses have unfair advantage because they ideologically are against the spending? When Michele is POTUS and cuts those programs, it shows her integrity for cutting something beneficial to her business, because in the long run it will be beneficial to all of us.
Report Post »lambster5
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 4:19pmDon’t we acknowledge that addicts have a clear chemical make up that makes them more prone to be an addict. Why do we have AA then? Aren‘t we trying to reform someone from a behavior that sometimes isn’t necessarily their fault? What about mass murderers? Can we just say that they have a chemical imbalance and that is why they are a mass murderer so we should legalize their behavior because they can’t help it? Sin is sin. The issue here is that we are dealing with law makers who give no thought to God or His word when addressing this issue. We don‘t hate the homosexual just like we don’t hat the alcoholic. We should hate the sin and help the sinner make a different choice. Participating in any sin is a choice!
Report Post »ohyan2912
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:27pmIt only makes me want to vote for her even more!
Report Post »My older brother is a pervert as is my older sister. er uh H O M O S E X U AL.
They are totally consumed by their sense of self worth and importance. I think it’s the most extreme form of arrogance and as such the Good Lord does has His Holy Word says, “I will give them over to their sins”. For years I have done all I can in love and kindness toward them both and they can only rail against me and have said the MOST hate filled things.
I know this both are the most un-happy people I know! What a life style that is!
And I have all the emails where my brother John Raymond H—- goes on and on about sex with little boys!! So don‘t tell me it’s not a perversion!!
Hiswill
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:56pmA president is the president of all people in a country. He or she can’t pick and choose who they like or dislike. We all have at least one family member that is less than perfect, but we love them anyway. Pray away the sin, but love the sinner.
Report Post »mjhillalabama
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:09pmNot according to Obama. There are HIS people and then there are the enemy (we conservatives.) Of course what this has to do with the ability to run the country is beyond me. Obama claims to be personally against same-sex marriage but doesn’t follow his own beliefs. Some say that’s because he “honors” other’s lifestyles. I think it’s because he wants their votes. Period.
Report Post »Social issues need to be put on the back burner for the next year and four months and let’s concentrate on the economy. Society will take care of itself without the government telling us how to live.
Lucci
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:35pmGood Lord…let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I think that leaves out all.
Report Post »We have a divine creator that all with sin, regardless of how defined in this world, will be held in account.
These types of issues, this BS, kill the GOP. The press are willing accomplices and conservatives, like lemmings, fall in line.
We will have no future if we take our eye off the Obama ball and what he is doing to destroy this country economically.
Clive
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:51pmwell said lucci.
Report Post »Mgindi26
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:04pm@ Lucci,
Report Post »The left and Obama are also trying to destroy this country cultutally and morally. We don‘t endorse wrong actions or ignore them because they aren’t financial. There is more than money to life.
B_rad
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 6:15pmPray away the sin, but love the sinner. Good point. If prayer works for some who wish to be straight, good for them. This activist went in ther for help to not be gay, and they tried to help him go the direction he said he wanted to go. Call the press, what a story! Ridiculous.
Report Post »I’m gay and I struggled with it until I was 34. I finally came to terms with it and accepted myself as who I am. I went to a therapist at a chuch that was part of my insurance plan and close to home. They listened to my situation and politely asked me if I wanted their help to be straight. I told them no, that after decades of struggle I had finally accepted myself, and I wanted help coping with my life. She very nicely referred me to someone who could help me because she could not. I understood that and agreed. There is nothing wrong with someone trying to help a person live straight, if that is indeed the direction they so badly want to go. If they wish for help coping with the fact they are gay, that’s great too, if the therapist can help with that. Not all are equipped or inclined to do so, and that is okay.
So many of you think gay is a disease. It isn’t. So many consider it nurture, not nature. I suppose that’s possible, but certainly not in my case. I was never molested or exposed to any funny business and from a very young age I was attracted to males. I simply don‘t think I’m some error in God’s design.
Michele is great and I hope she weathers the storm the nasty media has in s
DYNA
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 11:08pm@LUCCI
It is the blessing of the Lord that makes one rich and He adds no sorrow to it.
But the prosperity of the fool will destroy him.
Without virtue there no lasting prosperity.
Report Post »cloudsofwar
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:56pmHeadline: media outlets seek bombshell stories on Republicans ONLY. there were no Bombshell stories on OBAMA.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:11pmThought the exact same thing when I read that comment in the article. The media could have had a field day with Obama‘s past and friends if they weren’t biased and actually facilitating his election and, now, his re-election.
Report Post »LittleLordFauntleroy
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:00pmMILF vs WTF
Report Post »1TrueOne55
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:32pmHow about doing an complete expose‘ on Obama’s own writings of his youth where he professes his fondness of “hanging” with Communists, Radicals and “Latinos”. And how they affected his thinking and how we are paying for those philosophy constructs to day in his policy agenda going forward. Or about how his fathers “Dreams” shape him now. His father believed that you could “TAX” 100% of the peoples if they were dependent on the Government for services of any type.
Report Post »TraceyM
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:52pmI think it is a choice for many and not how they are born. There are a few born that way who will never change, othere are being taught, it’s okay to be gay.
Right now the left is doing all it can to attack the only woman int he field. So much for the party of the women!
Report Post »Charlie Justice
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:12pmWhen anything cthat strictly concerns homosexuality becomes the deciding Congressional or Presidential issue in these United States of America then all of us of good mind and common sense will be heading for the tundra plains of Canada to freeze off our unblemished asses.
Report Post »old white guy
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:18pmdocmd. i say ditto. perversion and devient behavior have been with us since the dawn of time but that still does not make it natural, normal or ok.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:20pmUnfortunately the article isn’t being very truthful. The issue is about two things, and the article makes only a tiny issue of the second:
1. “Pray away the gay” therapy has zero scientific credibility. A lot of people see it as simple brainwashing, and it’s a social hot-button issue to gay activists. This is what the article focuses on.
2. Dr. Bachmann’s clinic takes federal funds. Much the same way as many social conservatives decry Planned Parenthood for taking federal funds while providing abortion, Bachmann’s clinic does the same thing for unproven therapies based on religion… and that Dr. Bachmann seems to not have an APA-accredited degree, and is not licensed to practice mental health in Minnesota (note that licenses are not required to do so in that state).
Think of it as if he were a liberal Democrat. An unlicensed, unaccredited doctor is practicing a controversial therapy disavowed by the APA that relies on non-scientific formula (say, crystal healing) and is receiving federal funding. Top it off that his spouse is running on cutting frivolous spending, especially in healthcare.
That’s the issue.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:23pmThese poor abused children of God should be prayed for and treated for their illness, we should be ashamed we sick our heads in the sand pretend the abuse didn’t happen and they are normal. 5000 years of science taught us the cause and the treatment, a few politically motivated people in the 60′s being allowed to use data corrupted by money and outright deceit should never have been allowed to have brought suffering to the millions that have been abused over the years because of their fraud.
Report Post »LOOKING_BOTH_WAYS
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:31pmeveryone seems to ignore the ““barbarian”” comment , and i wonder if Michele feels the same, if so? well that‘s just wrong to call gays sub human’s
Report Post »USAF2003
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:32pmAs a Christian it IS your duty to witness to the lost. And if you are “born” gay you can break the sinful curse by turning to God. So what his clinic is doing is the only right thing to do. Gays can choose to be gay but they can also be “born” gay as a curse passed on by extreme sins of their parents, grandparents, etc. but it can be broken through the word of God.
Report Post »nlpeabody
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:38pmNobody is born that way. They have a choice in what they do and what they become. Dahmer , Manson and Anthony weren’t born evil. They chose evil. Just as others choose to do good things. OMG how horrible is it that the doctor tries to heal them through the teachings of the bible! (Sarcasm) Someday these liberal, progressive, gay, way left wingers will wish they did have the faith that 85% of this country has in our God and our Country.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:40pm@Swampy
“5000 years of science taught us the cause and the treatment”
There is so much wrong with this statement…
1. “Science” as we know it (ie, the scientific method) is at best a few hundred years old. If you really want to stretch empiricism, we can go back to Aristotle (ie, 2400 years ago).
2. There is still no sure “cause” of homosexuality. Unless you‘re saying it’s 100% natural, and even then there’s been no distinct gay gene found. There are factor involved and correlations, but no direct causation.
3. Treatment is likewise dubious. Since we can’t identify a distinct cause, the only treatment is the symptoms, ie, making sure nothing physical occurs.
I mean, maybe the Catholic church was right and its demons possessing people… or they’re witches. But to say such a view is science is incorrect.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:42pm@NLPeabody:
“Nobody is born that way. They have a choice in what they do and what they become.”
Your first statement does not negate your second. A person can be born with a homosexual attraction; whether they act on it is the difference. But who someone is inherently attracted to is the very definition of “born that way.”
Report Post »70S_KIDS_FIGHTING_SOCIALISM
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:48pmWe are all born in sin. So all sin is inherited in our genes. The fact is that they are claiming that an abnormality is occurring more often than any other abnormality disease or birth defect by 1000′s of times. No way!!! That is not happening. People are being talked into it as a cool fad if you surround yourself with others believing the same thing. Plus the advantage of being classified as a special person better than others so that your worth more than other types of people through hate crimes legislation and all other special anti-discrimination legislation. The more gays the demoncrats can create the more voters they will have. Gays being on the side of progressive communist gets you special treatment now. But when the commie dictatorship is established you can thank Rachel Madcow and others when your sent to mental institutions. At least Tammy Bruce knows which side the gay people should be on.
TEA!!!
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:49pmUSAF2003: Passed on by the sins of their parents?? My gods are we still in the Dark ages or what? I can’t believe some of these posts. Do you think that all of these disgusting people desire to be found disgusting by heterosexuals?? lol I’d say about 70% of it is innate; 30% lifestyle choices. Regardless they need seek help otherwise they will bankrupt the nation through the spreading of AIDS!
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:54pm“that‘s just wrong to call gays sub human’s”
Looking both ways, why do you equate “barbarian” with sub-human? The terms aren’t remotely the same. A barbarian refers to someone lacking in civilization, one whose thoughts and conduct are unrefined, unenlightened or incompatible with civilized society. Children are often called barbarians because they haven’t yet been civilized through education. A sub-human isn’t capable of being civilized. You can civilize an aborigine but not a gorilla.
Frankly I agree that homosexuality is a mark of barbarism. It rejects the need to control one’s sexual desire. But gays aren’t the only barbarians in our society. The entire sexual revolution was a celebration of sexual barbarism and you can see its lawless depravity trumpeted from the TV, Cinema, Radio and many of our courts. Go read the last couple of chapters of the book of Judges to see what barbarism looks like one everyone follows their own desires.
Report Post »nlpeabody
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:56pm@Locked My statements were correct. I am a woman. I see a beautiful woman and think ” Wow, she’s beautiful!“ Or ”Wow, she has a beautiful body!” But that doesn’t mean I want to have sex with her! I have a choice. My choice is to mate with a man that I love and procreate with him. As it is meant to be. People who claim they are born that way know they weren’t. They say it to make them feel better about the wrong they know they are doing.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:57pmReparative Therapy is legitimate, but since the Bible is written largely from the perspective that the reader already knows that homosexuality is abnormal, there is no effort to explain why.
The “reparative” in Reparative Therapy refers to the reparative drive that is expressed in homosexual acts, such as the sense of freedom and rebellion that they say the feel when engaged in it; What is happening is that homosexuals are attempting to reclaim a sense of lost gender identity, and their desire to bond with their own gender is inappropriately manifested in same sex attraction.
For more, read this article BEFORE citing evidence to the contrary. You’ll notice that religion is not a necessary component of Reparative Therapy.
The Meaning of Same-Sex Attraction
Report Post »http://www.narth.com/docs/niconew.html
Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:14pm@NLPeabody
“But that doesn’t mean I want to have sex with her! I have a choice. My choice is to mate with a man that I love and procreate with him. As it is meant to be. ”
Exactly. And you don‘t see a woman and want to have sex because you’re a heterosexual. But a homosexual woman could. They don’t have to act on it; being homosexual isn’t “having gay sex” it’s being sexually attracted to members of the same sex.
I think we agree that everyone has a choice to act on their desires. The difference is, homosexuals and heterosexuals have different desires upon which they want to act in the first place.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:21pm@A Doctor
What is your definition of legitimate? Neither the APA nor the ACA endorse it (the latter actually cautions against it). Is there a more legitimate organization when it comes to mental health in our country than the APA? (hint: no).
“For more, read this article BEFORE citing evidence to the contrary. You’ll notice that religion is not a necessary component of Reparative Therapy.”
Report Post »For the topic on hand, please refer to the article we’re actually responding about. There is zero doubt that religion and praying are a component of Dr. Bachmann’s therapy. As stated in theblaze article:
“Among other things, he urged Ramirez to pray and read the Bible, particularly verses that cast homosexuality as an abomination.”
mvivian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:23pmNo one is born a homosexual but with a sin nature. Sin is a choice and we are all guilty of it. People of faith, real faith believe what God says in His Word which is that WITH HIM ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE, INCLUDING LEAVING THE GAY LIFESTYLE. 85% of people who are practicing homosexuality had been victims of molestation. I am a Rape Crisis Advocate and a Christian. People leave that lifestyle every day and every single one of them can change through the healing power of Christ Jesus.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:26pm“Treatment is likewise dubious. Since we can’t identify a distinct cause”
@Locked, the problem with the above statement is that it ignores the clinical study of homosexuality before the APA voted to not list it as a pathology. They did this without any consultation of those doing work in the field. It was entirely a political vote. Until then the science was coming to very strong understandings of the root cuases of homosexuality. That work has continued, but with the political condemnation of the APA now. Because they claim that they alone represent the scientific position anyone who disagrees with their decision is labled unscientific. It’s a bogus argument.
When many people say that they don‘t know the causes of homosexuality it is really just an admission that they don’t want to examine the evidence. They don’t WANT an explanation.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:37pm“Is there a more legitimate organization when it comes to mental health in our country than the APA?”
I would think almost any organization would have more credibility. The APA lost all credibility when they caved to political pressure in 1972 and delisted homosexuality as a mental disorder without respect to the results of clinical study.
Report Post »LOOKING_BOTH_WAYS
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:38pm@Islesfordian.. I agree my words ““ sub Human ” was out of place but i still feel calling a group of CIVILIZED citizens Barbarians is uncalled for, it ranks right up there with being called a Racist,, you may disagree with other people but it’s no cause for name calling ……………………..
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:53pm@Islesfordian
“I would think almost any organization would have more credibility. The APA lost all credibility when they caved to political pressure in 1972 and delisted homosexuality as a mental disorder without respect to the results of clinical study.”
Why would you say it’s political, if the gay rights movement didn’t take off until until years later? There wasn’t nearly the political pressure in the early 1970s as there would be in the 1990s (or today). No, I disagree with your assessment; imagine (shock!) that the APA actually did so because the evidence said that it wasn’t a mental disorder! After years upon years of research showing no significant correlation between family issues and homosexuality (as posited by Freud), the APA changed their stance. Socially there were politics (Stonewall riots in 1969 for example), but nowhere near as much as today; nor was homosexuality nearly as accepted.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:01pm“Why would you say it’s political”
Because it was done on a popular vote, including every member of the APA regardless of whether they had experience in the field, and it was done without taking the testimony of those who HAD done work in the field regarding treatment of homosexuals. Thus, seeking the truth wasn’t the agenda. It wasn’t a scientific discussion or a scientific decision. Just because a scientists says something that doesn’t make what he says a scientific statement, but that is what the APA would have us believe.
Report Post »HappyStretchedThin
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:03pm@ Locked
Report Post »You reason well, but have forgotten to question some key assumptions. The APA is a body of scientists, yes, but that doesn’t make every vote they take solidly founded in empirical proof. The fact that they even vote on some things is proof that the truth in some matters is not settled, and it’s only a matter of opinion. There are plenty of other examples out there of scientific questions that can‘t be asked yet because it’s politically unpalatable to do so (global warming anyone?). If Doctor’s Labor is correct, then “reparative therapy” needs to be disproved scientifically, not “agreed” out of existence by the fiat of a professional group’s opinion. Interestingly, the reason the APA doesn’t like reparative therapy is because of the cognitive dissonance it may cause–essentially they think it does more harm than good to try to get people to question what gender they’re attracted to. They DON‘T argue that reparative therapy doesn’t have success, just that enough cases aren’t successful, and when they fail, they fail badly. In any case, the appeal to cognitive dissonance suggests a fundamental belief that homosexuality is a function of nature, not nurture. This is an assumption, not a proven fact. The problem is that scientists can’t get funding to hypothesize the opposite because of that APA stamp of dissaproval. We’ll never know until we are allowed to ask and study the question properly.
Walkabout
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:10pmZero credibility? Maybe most people would not want to investigate it. The gai lobby made a ruckus during a a 1973 meeting of psychologists. As a result the Diagnostic And Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders was changed to please them. Maybe it is only a placebo effect. But placebos have been shown to have a statistical effect. Maybe not a large one, but it isn’t noise.
So want I want to know is what is their success rate? The only thing I have seen is complaints on a gai site about ex gai for pay might only be ex gai for money. But they gave no stats on efficacy or not.
Deaf people have lobbied for operations not be given to deaf newborns or young kids to enable them to hear. They are more concerned about the number and survival of their COMMUNITY than for the individuals. Are gays afraid that it might work?
What is the success rate initially or after five years? Are psychologists even trying or comparing other methods.
Gais want everyone to be gay so no one will then say it is wrong. And so they have a greater variery of partners. Of course they have standards because they are all like Adonis or the “Most interesting man of the Year”.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:15pm“i still feel calling a group of CIVILIZED citizens Barbarians is uncalled for”
That’s begging the question. If they are civilized of course you wouldn’t call them barbarians. But what if their behavior calls into question their being fully civilized? Would you be uncomfortable calling Michael Vick’s treatment of dogs barbaric? I’m not. And if he behaves in a barbaric fashion he is in that sense a barbarian, regardless of his mode of dress and artistic sophistication etc. Hitler was a barbarian orf the civilized order, the worst kind. A simple poor farmer who nderstands the rule of law and how to treat others with dignity is far more civilized than a rich “cultured” robber baron who thinks the rules don’t apply to him and the weak are to be ruled by the strong.
You seem to approach the term civilezed and barbarian the way others do the term Christian or pagan. They see it as a mark of disrespect to call someone unChristian, even if his beliefs are clearly not Christian. For them words have little intrinsic meaning but are used as diplomatic niceties. This is…nice…but entirely useless as a way of communicating.
When we say that homosexuality is barbaric and that those who embrace it are being barbarians, we are saying that such behavior is at odds with the kind of morality required by “civilized” society, and that when society no longer cares about such things it will gradually, and then all at once, cease to be reconizably civilized and distinct from
Report Post »crazyrightwingmom
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 5:05pmFirst of all, it’s 1-3% of the population, not 10% (that’s an old myth put out by “activists’). Secondly, NO ONE knows why people become same-gender attracted, but the consensus is it is a combination of Nature and Nurture.
Report Post »Some people wish to live a hetero lifestyle and are able to put the **** in the background, or have it completely diminish.
WHATEVER WORKS, prayer, education, therapy….it is a person’s choice. Nothing…that’s fine also.
I know many “gays” who are happily married.
AZpatriotmama
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 6:09pm@Locked:
Please tell me you aren’t comparing “praying away the gay” to killing an unborn child.
If that’s not a great example of left-thinking I don’t know what is!
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:50pmSeriously GB/Blaze why are we so obsessed with Bachmann? Let’s hear about our leader Romney for a change ok? It almost appears as if there is a smear job going on.. We expect that out of the Marxist Media but I thought your site would be different.. Is it just a Mormon thing? Sort of like I got your back Mitt?
On another note I’ve not seen the first post on Rupert and Roger’s status.. You know the people that you have such respect for and trust in? Since they have been involved in and implicated in one o the most despicable scandals reported to date, I’d expect to see the Blaze update on their predicament. Especially since you were so fond of them and had such admiration for their character. Maybe this proves that you are really not that good of a judge of Character.. Maybe we shouldn’t be sending our young men and women to the Middle East to die for Israel after all? Maybe Israel is not the good and every one that questions their Supremacy the bad?
Makes me wonder about you and your organization Glenn. I’m beginning to think that you are a fraud.. A Deceiver!
Report Post »Wayner
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:00pmRomney is a RINO.
Report Post »k9nemesis
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:20pmA typical response from someone trying to discredit the only source of “truth in journalism” in America!
Report Post »IAMMADDOG
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:31pmTwo words….Romney Care.
Report Post »Czar Casm
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:34pmIt‘s what you don’t report also that can put you in the same classifacation of worthless journalism that most if not all off the MSN finds themselves.
Report Post »Got to be bold and secure enough to report all news fairly and let the debates occur.
jrfox
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:49pmA decade ago, a group of gay men (if one could call them ‘men’) went to a doctor as a group and tried to be corrected.
Report Post »Within a few weeks they were all becoming normal and natural men again.
It is caused mostly be hormonal imbalances and that can be corrected. Some of them may be victims of sexual offenders which would be called behavoir abnormalities. These can be treated by theropy.
They can be saved if they recognize thier un-natural behavoir.
Have a good day.
MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:38pmProvide a link to the study.
Report Post »TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:48pmWe choose to sin; homosexuality is a sin; people choose to engage. We choose to sin; murder is a sin; people choose to murder. Sin is sin and can only be overcome by faith in Jesus Christ.
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:50pmWe (some of us) choose to be Mormon or Catholic instead of Christian.Others are born again that way.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:51pmTechnically sodomy is the sin, right? I don’t believe the bible says “don’t be attracted to people of the same sex”; I mostly hear “to lie with another man is an abomination” and that Sodom and Gomorrah were smote for their namesake (sodomy).
Which of course, is any sex besides ******* (according to the Bible). So if you have ever given or received a BJ, I‘m afraid you’re as bad a sinner as a homosexual.
Firebrand
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:43pm@locked
Report Post »Can you reference the verses that explicitly state that ******* intercourse is the only “heaven approved” way to have sex?
Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:03pmNo, because instead it’s the definition of sodomy of the time, which was any immoral non-procreation sex act. In S&G, sodomites were rapists; in Ezekiel it doesn’t even mention sex acts; in Deuteronomy it mis-translates the word Qadesh (shrine prostitutes, rather than sodomites); in the Epistle of Jude it’s general “immorality” and “going after strange flesh.”
Anyway, the original definition is still used by medical dictionaries and the military rules and regulations of today. Oral or anal sex is sodomy, with a member of the same sex, opposite sex, or an animal.
Report Post »OneofMany
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:48pmJust another Satanic lie (that people are born that way) to break the family unit apart. All the “research” they come out with “proving” their is a gay gene or some how it’s a biological issue (as opposed to a spiritual, emotional issue) gets blown out of the water as soon as it gets to the public… only gay advocate scientist support their bizarre and unethical “research”.
You either believe God or you don’t. There is NO middle ground.
Bachmann has it RIGHT… a guy from the EXODUS group (reformed gays) came to our church once to speak and set the record straight…
Report Post »mvivian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:28pmamen!
Report Post »MarketsClear
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:43pmI love the false dichotomy presented by fundamentalist literalists who selectively read the bible and are hopeless naive of the culture in which it was written. There are many christians out there who have read and studied the bible and understand that those few passage dealing in what we now consider homosexuality don’t mean what the our english translations literally read.
Report Post »Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:44pmoneofmany: Homosexuality is a way for satan to destroy God’s family. Satan perverted God’s plan of reproduction, just as satan perverted all the plans that he saw in heaven when he was Lucifer, the archangel. Today, as in ages past, we wrestle not against flesh and blood (humans), but we wrestle against principalities and powers that are not of this world, which points to satan’s earthly kingdom. We are in a battle of good vs. evil. God’s way of reproduction is good…satan’s perversion of it is evil. In other words…homosexuality is demonic. End of story…
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:33pm“There are many christians out there who have read and studied the bible and understand that those few passage dealing in what we now consider homosexuality don’t mean what the our english translations literally read.”
Thos of us who actually know the languages and study the historical contexts of the texts know that that argument is entirely specious with little grounding in actual scholarship but that it is useful to confuse others who also don’t know the facts very well. The liars all claim “scholarship” but if you ask them to back it up they come up empty. But usually they ignore the demand to prove it. The last thing they want to do is argue with actual scholars.
Report Post »MarketsClear
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:02pm@Islesfordian
Lev 20 uses the hebrew term “toevah” to describe a man laying with another man. The other times we see this term used in the Old testament is with cultural and ritual violations, but never with other things we know to be sins.
The only reason literalists have to believe that the sin of sodom was homosexuality was that the people of Sodom demanded the angel so that they could have s3x with them. If the story is put back into context, the culture at the time demanded that travelers and strangers be treated with hospitality and generosity as they were passing through towns. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah were comparatively wealthy and disregarded this cultural obligation. It is not likely that they wanted to have s3x with the angels out of lust, but to violently r@pe them out of a desire to humiliate and denigrate foreigners.
Every time “homosexuals” appears in our translation of the new testament, it is a mistranslation of the greek word arsenokoites. This word is not defined by Paul and literally translated from greek roots it is closer to “man of beds.”
When things are put back in context, its not obvious why God would consider a loving monogamous homosexual relationship sinful.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:35pmMarketsclear, your kind like to claim it “isn’t clear” by denying all the evidence that makes it clear. You don‘t connect Romans 1 to Paul’s mention of arsenekoi. You ignore Jude’s discussion of Sodom. You pretend to make an observation about language related to the levitical treatment of homosexual acts, but you have no actual possitive argument. Furthermore, you ignore the vast body of Rabbinc and early christian witness to the meaning of the texts. It‘s easy to make things unclear when you can separate everything and raise questions that weren’t asked back then.
I‘m sure Casey Anthony’s lawyers played similar tricks.
Report Post »MarketsClear
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 5:27pm@Islesfordian
As to Jude’s discussion of Sodom, Jewish culture had a legend in the first century that the people of Sodom were fornicating with angels. In that context “strange flesh” makes more sense as angelic as opposed to same-sex flesh.
I didn’t bring up Romans 1 before because I ran out of room. If you look at Romans 1 as a general social commentary, you can only assume that Paul is daft. It does, however, make sense if put into the context of Romans sex rites and idol worship. In viewing Roman culture and religion from a Jewish perspective, he saw the orgies associated with Roman fertility cults as the epitome of idolatry. He also saw much of Greek and Roman culture through the lens of a Jew who probably still abstained from eating pork.
You bringing up Rabbinical scholarship seems to be a non sequitur. I don’t know of any scholarship that separates homosexuality from the rest of the holiness code. Also from my research, I’m pretty sure the Jews rarely associated Sodom with homosexuality. Ezekiel 16 explicitly spells out the sin of sodom, and its not homosexulaity.
Clearly you don’t understand leviticus very well if you want to disregard the subtleties of the language. If you want to use leviticus to condemn homosexuals then you must use it to condemn seafood eaters.
To blanketly condemn homosexuality based on Paul’s critique of Roman religion and the levitical holiness code shows a naive and simplistic view of the word of God.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 6:10pm” If you want to use leviticus to condemn homosexuals then you must use it to condemn seafood eaters.”
Again, this is where puting all the pieces to gether makes things clear. Paul shows that there was an instinctive difference between dietary diffreneces in the holiness code and sexual practices. He makes no list of shellfish eaters among the signs of spiritual disorder. In the Council of Jerusalem the apostolic church commanded the Gentile Christians merely to avoid strangled meat and sexual immorality. The list of what constituted sexual immorality is in the holiness code. Obviously they saw that mere conjunction with dietary items did not mean they were of equal value.
Report Post »TH30PH1LUS
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 7:20pm@ MARKETSCLEAR: you write “…its not obvious why God would consider a loving monogamous homosexual relationship sinful.”
Excuse me but the ALMIGHTY designed the first human sexual relationship in a perfect, sinless setting – and made them MALE & FEMALE. This was His design for sex and marriage. See Genesis.
Report Post »binge_thinker
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:17pmIt’s perplexing to think that the same loud and obnoxious voices who champion ‘equal rights for all’ seem so intent on limiting the rights and views of Christians which seem to be the only ones not tolerated in our culture of tolerance.
The total disintegration of the American family is the ultimate goal of many deranged and demented liberals.
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 11:02pmYou either believe God or you don’t. There is NO middle ground.
Yes there is a middle ground and there are millions and millions of people there, many of them intelligent. We believe in God, but don’t believe that he personally spoke to one group of people in one part of the world thousands of years ago and gave them a book of rules for all people everywhere, forever, and that this is the one true book of rules, and everywhere else that people claim that God gave them a book that has a lot of the same rules, but also some that are different, they are lying or crazy, just like the people today who claim that God talks to them. We also believe that if your perfect book that comes from a perfect God says not to eat pigs or clams and that if a guy has sex with an animal you have to kill the guy AND the animal, but it never mentions that slavery is wrong, then whether it comes from God or from people it’s probably only meant for the people of the time and place it was written and not everybody everywhere forever.
Report Post »thegman
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:48pmIt is only highly controversially to those who are liberal.
Report Post »kralspaces
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:17pmIt’s in our DNA, just like being consevative or liberal. However, our environment can change it and that is called evolution or revolution.
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:52pmEvery Gay I know was told they were that way by our Lord Jesus Christ, speaking to them in prayer. Many of them heard His holy voice Out Loud.
TEA
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:53pmOr those who care about taxpayer money going to unapproved and unscientific pseudo therapy. You know, social conservatives.
Report Post »nysparkie
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:46pmYou can ask God to help by praying. I say just enforce decency and a US Constitution. There is no way I am being allowed to purse happiness with these cretins marching around in crotchless chaps.
Report Post »saranda
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:54pmSo it is only about YOUR right to pursue happiness? What about the people you might offend? Do they have the right to not seeing you live your life as it might impede their ability to pursue happiness.
Report Post »I have friends who are afraid of guns. Do they have the right to pursue happiness without having to deal with the gun ownership lifestyle? I may have a problem with a particular church group, so how do I get to make it stop impeding on my pursuit of happiness.
Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:02pmsaranda: Homosexuality is not a right…it is a perversion. It is a choice, and choices have consequences. It cannot be compared to guns and churches. Homosexuality pertains to ones choice of how they will use their own personal body. Only the laws of God pertain to perversions. What God calls a sin, is a sin. What God calls detestable and perverse, is detestable and perverse. Guns and Churches are not detestable and perverse, and they are not sin.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:46pmThis practice is only controversial among thse who refuse to believe what was the long accepted and obvious fact that homosexuality is but one of many psychological pathologies which can be treated clinically and/or spiritually. If you can “cure”, or sober up, an alchoholic there is little reason that a similar treatment cannot be applied to sexual disfunction, though experience has shown that homosexuality, having deeper roots than alchoholism, is more intractable.
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:55pmI wonder if any of these yahoos have heard of Exodus International. Alan Chambers, the president of Exodus, is doing exceptional work with those who choose to leave the gay lifestyle. He should know what he’s talking about, too: he left that lifestyle himself to lead a straight Christian life.
Report Post »Uncurable wound
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:46pmPray for Michelle and her family…
Report Post »Do not let her fight alone!
Stand up Christians…
Enough bowing to the enemy,its time for some CONQUERING!
I stand with Michelle,and she stands with God…
binge_thinker
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:22pmAnd liberals pretty much hate everybody who lives a lifestyle they do not approve of.
It would be difficult to find another group as filled with hate and intolerance as modern American liberals.
Report Post »ryanr313
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:46pmWhy is this even an issue. No one is forcing this therapy on anyone. This is so stupid
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:05pmThe best comment I have read
Report Post »cloudsofwar
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:10pmit’s only an issue for the Libs and Progressives. now where is the hetrosexaul parade? oh thats right we don’t have one because we are normal. and normal people don’t need to parade themselves.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:26pmI agree RYANR313 … and why doesn’t the MSM look into Obama? … lots of unanswered questions there!
TEA!
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:14pm@Ryan
Agreed. The only issue is that taxpayer money is funding the clinic it happens at. As long as it doesn’t pay for the therapy itself, I see no issue.
Report Post »jmbogstad
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:45pmObviously it works for some people, so why not try, or do these people want to be outcasts, do they want the attention they get by being gay? Why not get attention in other ways, like the guy in this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On8eTIqhqRE
Report Post »OneofMany
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:45pmMichele STOP APOLOGIZING!!! YOU HAVE IT RIGHT!!! DON”T Conform to the world, be transformed to the image of Jesus!!
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:43pmOh Lord, please don’t let them make people pray. That is a punishment greater than any person can bear. I don’t see why anyone would want to “cure” someone of homosexuality anyways, it is not an illness, it is a CHOICE! DUH If they don’t want to pray then they can go somewhere else. If they want to choose to keep being homosexual then go somewhere else. If they want to stay stupid and ignorant they don’t have to go anywhere, that is with them everywhere they go.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:23pmIt is no more a choice than one’ sskin color. Quacks like Bachmann’s Husband have been milking the US Tax Payer for these fake cures.
Report Post »Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:39pm“One’s Skin”
Report Post »adouglass1
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:13pm@ encinom
What is wrong with you?
Im Black and cant wake up one morning and be like “oh I dont feel like being Black today” I cant change it on a newly formed opinion or new idea I found out. But when the Nazi gestapo comes for the gay man or women they will quickly be like “what we not gay dude shoot this is my brother or sister lol. I get so tired of having this gay sinful evil disgusting lifestyle try to be painted in a natural normal way. Also as an American Im offended when the gays try to portray their struggle to the civil rights movement I say BS to that!!
Report Post »freedoc
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:18pmFake cure or not, I see no reason for Federal support. Period.
Never thought I would agree with Encinom, but there it is.
Report Post »Mgindi26
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:01pm@ Enicom
Report Post »Actually it’s much more of a choice than skin color. Skin Color is a part of your physical make up unless your Michael Jackson you can’t change your skin color.
Homosexuality is an action an action one chooses to perform. If one does not commit a homosexual act then they are not a homosexual. Wheras skin color requires no action if one is black, white, yellow or brown they are the color they are no action required.
If one has an interest in performing a homosexual act but doesn’t act then they are not a homosexual.
Homesexuality is a choice, you have to choose to engage in the act.
compatriotshonor
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:42pmI want to know, if this treatment can cure the disease, that is socialism?
Report Post »Erabin
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:45pmI want to know, if, you can, actually, pray people away that, use, commas, like this, because that, ,would be, pretty neat,
Report Post »Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:35pmBe careful, Monice/Encinom might cite you for your sentence structure.
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:39pmIf; you keep. comma-mernting, like that. it will, actually, damage your Colon: That is, your choice, alone.
Report Post »HADEN0UGH
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:02pm“comma-menting”
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:47pmLike, “touche”
Report Post »I Hear the Wolves
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:40pm“touché”
Don’t be lazy! The diacritic is important.
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:53pmNot as important as a blog critic!
LOL
Report Post »TEA
I Hear the Wolves
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:17pm“Not as important as a blog critic!”
Well played.
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:28pmDemocracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. …. H.L. Mencken
I hear the Wolves are being trained as Gurkhas…. …. H.L. Mencken
Report Post »I Hear the Wolves
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 5:12pmMencken had a razor sharp wit, but he is far too cynical for my tastes. No, I’m afraid the Sesame Street reference went right over your head. Apparently you aren’t a fan of Count von Count or Stinky the Stinkweed.
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 5:35pmMy bad!
I thought Elmo said, “I hear SOME wolves.”
(Muppet’s Peter & The Wolf)
Report Post »I Hear the Wolves
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 5:58pmActually, it was Stinky the Stinkweed who said it, and it was more like “Hark! I hear some wool-uh-vuh-s-uh!” That just didn’t seem like a very practical handle, with all the dashes and bangs in it.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:41pmRegardless of your position on the underlying issue, we have yet another politician who has trouble with the truth. No doubt somewhat associated with being managed and advised by staff who want her to be as electable as possible. As a candidate who implies she is of good moral standing and strong character, such half truths (giving her the benefit of the doubt here) are of course worse offenses.
Report Post »Obama Snake Oil Co
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:50pmSo in the scheme of things…what has this go to do with Michelle? Did she say it or is this guilt by association? How desperate the left is when they fear a candidate, just like Palin, caught them with their pants down, they, got there panties in a wad. Is the left going after all of Bachmans family? We saw what a class act they were against Palins. We didn’t forget folks, we saw and heard what you did. Did you wonder why you lost the house? Well, good luck with that hopey changey stuff. Anyone but Obama will be the next president. Sniffle and whine….anyone but Obama. Jimmy Carter is smiling big….he knows Obama will be known has the worst in history and he will move up a notch….
Report Post »I Hear the Wolves
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:56pmSadly, I am inclined to agree with you. I say sadly, because I really want to like Bachmann. While I think it premature to come to any firm conclusions based on what I’ve seen, it does seem that the congresswoman is being less than completely honest here. If she and her husband believe that homosexuals can be delivered from their lifestyle through prayer and other therapy, she should stand by that proudly and damn the political consequences. If she is willing to compromise on this issue to get elected, then she is only showing that she is willing to compromise in the future to further her politcal career. I really appreciated what Glenn Beck told the Knesset yesterday about politicians speaking the truth. No one has the courage to speak plainly what they believe anymore.
Report Post »I Hear the Wolves
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:26pm@Obama Snake Oil Co
“Did she say it or is this guilt by association?”
Guilt by association? She owns the place with her husband. Shouldn’t she be held accountable for what the business practices? I’m not saying I disagree with the idea of “reparitive therapy”, but if that is what they do there, she should not deny it, and neither should her husband. I’m waiting to make a judgment on this one, but I would say her credibility and integrity is definitely in question on this issue.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:18pmHold on, where exactly do you find these “half-truths” from Michelle? Are you relying on reporters’ descriptions of what she said, and their piecing together snippets of her statements? That would hardly be a fair hearing of her position, as any conservative should know. Let’s be specific in identifying what she actually has said and not let her enemies paint her words for her.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:20pm“it does seem that the congresswoman is being less than completely honest here.”
How so? Be specific in quoting her.
Report Post »CommonSenseis Missing
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:40pmAnyone who thinks the gay lifestyle is a choice is living in a fantasy world. It is not a disease to be cured, or a choice to be changed. People who think otherwise are delusional.
This woman is not electable. The sooner true fiscal conservatives realize it the better our chances in 2012.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:43pmThe fiscal conservatives have been driven out of the GOP, they are not invited to the Tea Party with the little girls in charge.
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:47pmYou are absolutely right commonsenseis missing. Yours definitely is missing but don’t expect us to help you find it, you gotta do that on your own. Homosexuality is a CHOICE and the only ones that don’t believe that are the ones living that CHOICE and that way they can deny that they can be helped.
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:47pmAre you speaking from experience?
Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature because the absolute goal of a species is reproduction. So, I would argue that it is, indeed, a choice. Now, whether that choice is subconscious is another matter.
Report Post »Kromlik
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:48pmUmm.. Common sense would tell you that having another mans ***** up your arse is definetly not a good choice. The hell with praying for them. I say we go Spartan on the C***suckers
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:50pm@encinom
Report Post »Don’t you wish! We are theTea Party, we are the GOP. We will soon have all of your RINO buddies out of the GOP. We are the ones fighting for this nation, our freedom and for the restoration of our Godly Constitution. If you don‘t like it you can always leave but you’re not worth us worrying about if you do or not.
drattastic
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:54pm@encinom
Report Post »That sounds like a sexist remark to me. Thought you loons were against the ISMums ,oh never mind that only counts when it’s YOUR kind. Your hackery is pathetic as usual.
drattastic
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:00pm@Kromlik
Report Post »Uh might want to check out the history on the Spartans,not sure you want to go Spartan on them .They had notorious homosexual lifestyles.
MONICNE
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:47pmMichelle is so womanly, so busty, so fecund and so beautiful she could straighten out Elton John!
I love seeing her run, especially her eye makeup; and when she is elected I will be keeping her calendar girl poses over my toolbox out in the back of the auto garage.
She will be the President all young men, gay and straight can pay attention to day after day!
Her sexy images will decorate fighter jets and amphibious landing craft.
TEA! Sch-ween!
Report Post »CommonSenseis Missing
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:41pmI’m no RINO, but I’m alos not a homophobe like so many of you. Think about it, why would anyone “choose” that life style. As you say it is not natural, nor is it a choice. Gay people are born that way. Nothing you or I or anyone else can do about it. Deal with it.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:28pmWhy would anyone “choose” to be agoraphobic so that he fears leaving the house? No one. Are people with that affliction born that way or does something go wrong in their psychological development?
And if you respond, “Are you comparing sexual attraction to a fear of open spaces?”, yes, I am comparing them, which is different from equating them.
Show me how they are fundamentally different without question begging arguments.
Report Post »TH30PH1LUS
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:40pmNews Flash: in the last 5,000 years of recorded human civilization, homosexual/gay activity has been considered deviant.
It’s only NEWS to those who are so disconnected from history and religion that they are SHOCKED when they actually hear the truth.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:50pm“News Flash: in the last 5,000 years of recorded human civilization, homosexual/gay activity has been considered deviant.”
Also slavery was considered okay during that same time period, I guess that is why Bachmann had no problem signing the Family’s pledge.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:01pm@ENICOM
Do you not know that slavery is still going on? … look at the welfare class in this country .. that is slavery. Some other third world countries have out and out slavery .. with NO escape.
Report Post »TH30PH1LUS
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:14pm@Encinom: FYI slavery is a multi billion dollar business going on right now. It’s called “human trafficking”. IF you support illegal immigration, you also support human trafficking. IF you support the “sex industry”, you also support human trafficking.
Report Post »k9nemesis
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:15pmWell stated!
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:18pmenc: yeah your party, the democrats, promoted and advanced the cause of slavery..the KKK, jim crow and racism…
Report Post »encinom
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:26pmCatB
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:01pm
@ENICOM
Do you not know that slavery is still going on? … look at the welfare class in this country .. that is slavery.
_______________________________
Report Post »Really, are you going to compare a social safety net to slavery, I guess you dropped out of home school before they taught common sense.
encinom
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:29pmjoe1234
Report Post »Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:18pm
enc: yeah your party, the democrats, promoted and advanced the cause of slavery..the KKK, jim crow and racism…
___________________________________
Yes, the southern half of the party did, of course when the Democrats cleaned house, Nixon and the GOP were all to happy to have the Southern bigots join the party.
Firebrand
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:48pm@TH3Op
Report Post »It has depended on the culture. For instance, it was common for Samurai and Roman soldiers to consider the love of a man superior to the love of a woman, as women were considered to be inferior.
beckwasfox
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:46pmMost of them stayed in your party. Al Gore and his father, Senator Byrd and the list continues. You keep people dependent through welfare and the destruction of the family unit. Face the truth, Encino, yours is the party of bigots. No, yours is the philosophy of bigotry.
Report Post »JohnBirch
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:37pmWhat’s wrong with that?
Report Post »Less painful than a punch in the mouth.
Kromlik
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:52pmOr a Rooster in the rear
Report Post »TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:35pmI believe homosexuality is a sin that people are born with just like all the other sins we are born with but are at liberty not to committ. It’s a fallen world and we are a fallen race. Prayer is exactly what we are to do daily for everything and every situation.
Report Post »Erabin
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:48pm“Prayer is exactly what we are to do daily for everything and every situation.”
I’d rather drink a tea. It helps just as much and is way more comfortable and dare I say, even tasty.
Report Post »Divineliberty
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:35pmShe is right Homosexuality is a choice…and mostly a escape from abuse…every time I have seen it that has been the cause.
Report Post »saranda
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:49pmI think you need to expand your world if that is the only way you have viewed the gay lifestyle. I have a gay brother who was not abused nor chose to be gay. If anything he fought it until his 40′s and now lives without the burden of living a lie. And the best part is that is a Christian with a pastor who accepts who he is. I have never met a gay person who claimed to be gay due to choice or abuse. This is a strange world you live in.
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:19pm@Saranda
When you say “fought it”, you make it seem like being a **** is a temptation, no different than food or alcohol, or sex; meaning, it’s all in the mind; which then has to mean that homosexuality is, in fact, a choice.
This isn’t really that complicated. Species aren’t created NOT to reproduce; it’s 100 percent the opposite. Species exist to reproduce. It cannot get any simpler than that.
Claiming that people are “born” gay takes all the focus and responsibility off the person; it was an ingenious proposition, for sure.
Report Post »adouglass1
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:23pm@ Hchild
Dont try to debate using logic whats wrong with you? lol
Report Post »Firebrand
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:02pm@Haus
A different argument along the same lines is that if homosexuality was a genetic trait, it would have been dropped from the gene pool a long time ago. If we go back to a time when mankind didn’t have the ability to rationally think and only operated on instinct and impulse, the selective pressure on homosexuality would have easily led to it’s own demise (classic bottle neck to extinction). You can‘t pass genes to the next generation if you don’t reproduce. That leads to a debate on homosexuality and bisexuality. If this is the case then you are arguing genetic codominance or at least recessive carry over, in which case you should see see a phenotypic segregation among siblings. You don’t. Hence, homosexuality is not genetic, though it could be a genetic abnormality.
This is the other side of the argument. If it is a mutation, again it would be more rare than what we see, as it is a lethal phenotype (self-removing from the population). From this, you could conclude that homosexuality is most likely along the same lines as a fetish. As it fits in this behavioral category pretty well.
I’m not defending this point of view, just giving it as an alternative.
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 3:56pm@Firebrand,
I agree completely. And, I do so not necessarily because of religion or empathy, but reason and facts.
This is one of those issues people way over-complicate. Nature provides the answer.
Report Post »saranda
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:08pm@hauschild – or you could look at my use of the phrase “fought it” as an indication that no one would choose to be gay (if indeed they could choose) and so he tried to conform to the hetero expectations placed on him and lived a lie until his 40′s. So though you worked through an argument, it fails with the simple understanding that no one would choose to gay, and if you have ever known a teen struggling with their growing truth that they are gay you would see that it is not a choice.
@adouglass1 – thanks for adding nothing to the conversation. Logic in this case is on the side of the person who knows they cannot live as a hetero but has to endure people like you with their small minds and smaller world due to something they cannot change.
Report Post »adouglass1
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 6:01pm@ Saranda
Right back at you, you are the only one that has a small mind that is also closed. You keep tiptoeing to your party line about homosexuality because that’s all you know. Keep saying they are born that way so that they will feel better about themselves and their disgusting sin as that is so typical. You are so very atypical of the type of characters and personalities that brought down the Roman empire. You actually provide nothing so all you do is attack that is your programming grow up and grow a pair you stink of sin and are very judgemental. You are of the viewpoint that if someone does not agree to your views than they provide nothing typical liberal. Also just because you can do something does not mean that you should. Lets just throw the rule book out and lets all do what we want right? Whatever makes you happy sheep#$$##, child abusing, murdering etc etc just do it becuase we dont wnat to offend anyone. By the way get over yourself im not impressed!!
Report Post »adouglass1
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 6:12pmExcuse me the Republic of Rome than the Empire than nothing…
Report Post »saranda
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 7:31pm@ADOUGLASS1 – nice attack. But it always comes back to the question of “who would choose to be gay, if they were truly given the choice”? I think any argument about people choosing to live life this way has to address that question. The gay lifestyle exists in all mankind, no matter where they live or were brought up. From ancient China to preColumbian American and including the Mayans, homosexuality has been recorded. It is hard to deny that God created some people this way.
You do not agree with it and I can accept that, but I wonder what you think of those who believe the Bible points to Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathon as gay couples – not exactly what I would choose to believe but it has been said.
BTW, I am not a lib but calling me out as one obviously fulfilled some kind of need in you so please continue.
Report Post »adouglass1
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:14pm@
Saranda
Not an attack just the truth, also I have never (I repeat) never heard about the people in the bible you mentioned being gay couples. Show me some evidence some proof a link not just your opinion or something you heard somewhere. Also Like I already said just because you can do something does not mean you should. I as well respect your opinion thanks for the discussion. Yes throughout time there have been gays or whatever but it is not the norm nor has it ever been accepted as the norm. If gays were to get their way they would not reproduce the human race out of existence. That’s because you can do all the adopting you want but that does not actually make the baby. Its a sexual act and a choice period plain and simple.
It takes
Report Post »1 man and 1 woman=baby
1 woman and 1 man=baby
1 man and 1 man=no baby
1women and 1 women=no baby
No matter how you slice it their only two possible combinations that make a baby and they both require a man and a woman.
adouglass1
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:44pm@ Saranda
I dont have any gay friends nor do I so desire, and if I did or do or one became one I would shun them. I would not choose to hang out or buddy around with anyone that was of that deviant lifestyle. It is a sin as well and I would not want that sin reflected on me. By the way dont paint me as close minded I have every right to decide that in my life. It is a perversion, Im a man and the sexualness of a man does not in any way shape or form appeal to me its disgusting. I look at myself in the mirror can appreciate the human body but if their was two of them in the same bed yuck and gross etc.
That is my opinion, now of course the party line is “ oh its more than sex” yes sure and bs. At the end of the day after taking care of bills, house, kids etc. You express yourself and your thanks to your mate either your man or your your woman sexually either with sex or a kiss or a touch some physical form of expression. I could not imagine doing that with another guy the parts dont even match lets actually talk this out. A womans ****** is made for a mans penis a mans penis is made for a ******. You can not reproduce using two men or two women. Therefore if everyone was gay their would indeed be no human race as their sex acts are not indeed for reproduction and just a sex act. Oh I know the gays would have to keep some useful heteros around for that pesky act of reproduction. Yes it is a sin and a abomination in the eyes of GOD i.e. Sodom and Gommorah.
Report Post »adouglass1
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 2:04pmAlso the gay party line is simple and easy to figure out. Get accepted period. Why? I don’t care. I have figured it out but I honestly don’t care. Get accepted and become the norm BS. Have more in the “lifestyle” which gives more partner choice of course. But I as a hetero Christian male dad Black American don’t want to see that poured down my throat. It’s not cool to be gay and everyone is not gay a little sometimes in their life. But if you watch mainstream media TV etc it is. The gay pride parades the wanting of extra/ special rights the trying to get extra attention why?
Just be yourselves just acclimate to the rest of society you deserve no more than me because of who you choose to be with or what you decide to do in your bedroom period. It’s when you decide to take it in the streets and act like weirdoes. Real men and women would not act like that, not attacking the sex acts they decide to do rather the thinking and behavior that comes along with it. I’m 36 and for years I have seen the slow change a little bit at a time. But I won’t ever change shoot put me up against the wall in a firing squad I still won’t change my opinion. Why do 2-3 % of people get to choose for everyone else?
Report Post »adouglass1
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 2:12pm@ Saranda
One more thing I also tend to disagree and say that not God did not create that sin but does allow it be because it is part of the plan and serves a purpose for now. What I have no idea but I am not God.
Report Post »fertlmind
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:33pmDo you think if we all get together we can pray Obamma away?
Report Post »Oldphoto678
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 2:24pmI don’t think all of you together could pray away a pimple.
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:33pmQ: if a person can change sexual orientations by prayer or other “therapy,” would it work as well straight-to-gay as gay-to-straight?
Report Post »fertlmind
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:40pmI don’t know for sure,….
Report Post »why don’t you try it and report your findings to us
Islesfordian
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:42pmGiven how sexual molestation of children results in a high percentage of them developing sexual dysfunction including homosexuality, yes, you can turn someone away from being straight. It’s just like bending any maleable substance. The human psyche has set normal parameters which can be influenced and distorted through gradual environmental factors or through sudden traumatic events. Any priest or psychiatrist could tell you as much.
Report Post »Captain Crunch
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 12:43pmGo ahead and pray to be gay….what an idiot!
Report Post »Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:05pmWho really gives a crap? You know this was a setup to begin with. Does Dr. Bachmann have a SSN from Connecticut or did he post a fake birth certificate? Does Michelle also go by the alias Harrison J. Bounel?
Report Post »bullcrapbuster
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 1:07pmI agree with the Bachmann’s. Homosexuality is a disorder. A disease riddin lifestyle that endangers society at large. History shows that It can be cured. If the druggies got themselves organized into a voting block they could get their lifestyle legitimized and be issued drug vouchers. It’s all politics folks.
Report Post »decendentof56
Posted on July 12, 2011 at 4:46pmWell, who really cares?
Report Post »All I know is that the deamonization of Bachmann has only started. Sol Alinsky is alive and well. The Dem-Devils will stop at nothing to continue their agenda and, besides, hasn’t it worked for the last 50 years? They will stop at nothing, and nothing will stop me until I get to the booth and help vote Obama out!
Firebrand
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:09am@Drako
Report Post »Sure. Anyone can be brainwashed. The political class have convinced the public to take it in the rear for years…