Media
Beck Responds to MSNBC‘s ’Work of Fiction’ Attack on The Bible
- Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:56pm by
Meredith Jessup
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On Thursday evening, MSNBC host Lawrence O‘Donnell brazenly declared that the Bible’s Book of Revelation is a “work of fiction” about a “truly vicious” mass murdering God that “no half-smart religious person actually believes.”
On Friday morning, conservative radio host Glenn Beck fired back at O’Donnell and his network, asserting “MSNBC has become the most anti‑god network ever put on the air in the history of America.”
O‘Donnell doesn’t understand or believe in the Bible or Book of Revelation, Beck said, because “progressives believe that they are God. They will have collective salvation and they will fix everything.”
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Comments (523)
Eblaze44
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:04pm@fightinglee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:34pm. Silly rabbit. you better go study the history of how the Bible got to be. #1, in itself, it is a collection of “books”, selected and put together by a group of religious “leaders” with their own agenda and belief (and people died who didn’t agree with them). #2, the book of Revelation was one of the earliest of the New Testament “books” written. I’m sure it got stuck in last simply for the uneducated that would think that no one was allowed to add to the book. #3, Now, someone go find me the “perfect” translation of this “Bible” that everyone is praising and stacking their whole belief in.
None of the above proves or disproves God, nor does it prove nor disprove Heaven or Hell.
Report Post »fightinglee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:08pmwhat are you talking about?? You are saying the same thing i said. Are you confused and trying to respond to the other user who was attacking mormons? I wish more people understood how to read and follow posts.
Report Post »clinicalminded
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:46pmYou guys are so funny about your use of the word proof. Correlations prove global warming, uh no. Historical sciences of palentology and NO causal mechanism for evolution yet you believe that. So in actuality, you have faith in man we have faith in God. The only difference is that you use sanctimony as a mechanism of your faith, and we use common sense. Something cannot come from nothing and historical models of something never witnessed that is animals becoming people is nothing more than an outrageous hypothesis. So now give me your causal mechanism for evolution and I will satnd down. Truth is you can only quote some grandiloquent egghead that only knows correlations and theory. Look forward to your response that will undoubtedly contain adhominem attacks and more theory, same a people that believe in the Bible. Go ahead, whats the causal mechanism for evolution? How is a correlation with carbon proof of marco climate change? Cant wait for more theory and opinion. We are all victims of not knowing….but I guess no one taught you that in your subsidized lifestyle. Unless of course you still live at home with your parents.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 2:52pmWow, where to begin? eblaze, “Silly rabbit. you better go study the history of how the Bible got to be. #1, in itself, it is a collection of “books”, selected and put together by a group of religious “leaders” with their own agenda and belief (and people died who didn’t agree with them).”
I know this is a fairly common (and incorrect) generalization, but you failed to mention the metrics for including certain books. And while you imply the “agenda” was manipulative, that is false.
You go on to say “#2, the book of Revelation was one of the earliest of the New Testament “books” written. I’m sure it got stuck in last simply for the uneducated that would think that no one was allowed to add to the book.”
Actually, the book of Revelation was one of the last of the New Testament books written. Most of the books of the New Testament were penned prior to Paul’s murder in Rome. The author of Revelation, John, was the only disciple to reach and die of old age, at around 100 years old, just around the turn of the first century AD. It is commonly accepted that he penned Revelation in the neighborhood of 95 AD.
And finally “#3, Now, someone go find me the “perfect” translation of this “Bible” that everyone is praising and stacking their whole belief in.” Like my hero Bill Clinton, that would depend on what your definition of “perfect” is. Some will only use a bible “authorized” by their bishops. Some will only use the King James Version. There are those who will use multiple translations. At least two translations are not actually “translations” in the strictist sense, as they used an existing translation, but changed words that did not support their theology. Those are only used by their adherents. The other translations have a fidelity that would amaze you. If translations are a big problem for you, you could always learn ancient Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, and go read it directly as penned. There are litterally millions and millions that have done so.
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:55pmNone other than Martin Luther once wished out loud that Revelations could be excised from the Bible, because, he said, “It is not revealing.”
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 2:32pmHi Lloyd, you mean Revelation. Martin also had deep problems with Jews, but I still like him.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:53pm@ DONTBOTHERME
Report Post »God wins? Right, god does indeed kill and incite the death of his supposed “creation.” From the inquisition, to the burning of freethinkers at the stake, I weep for those killed in the name of religion.
338lapua
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:28amReligion and the word of God have nothing in common. You are right on that point, those were some crazy people. If all the money was taken out of religion, there would be none, then the word would stand.
Report Post »jmanuola
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:52amI weep for those who attribute characteristics to God that are completely inherent in man and not in Him. God’s choice is that NONE should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But God, in His love for all of us, thought is more expedient that One Man should perish for us all. However, many speak of the things they utterly know nothing about and will perish because of their ignorance and rejection of the love of God.
The truly sad thing about people like you is that you truly think that the world that exists beyond the scope of your ability to comprehend does not, therefore, exist…merely because you refuse to comprehend it.
Report Post »faithnAO
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 10:35amCatharsis, I don’t think you want to go there. Your atheist hero, Mao was the worst mass murderer in human history. Now for the sanity of the rest of us please go tell your mom that your computer privileges should be removed until you turn 18.
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:30pmCATHARISIS;
So ,you hold to the “theory”… of evolution, and truely it is only a theory no one disputes that. So then what life have you seen evolving / changing into something other than what it already is? Also, if evolution is true, and life as we know it evloved from something other than what it is now, then evolutinary events must still be taking place, so what are you evolving into, or mankind in general, or what proof do you have to show this evolutionary work of “Nature”? Also, if you have some solid proof / evidence that you can present to the world which will clearly dicredit God’s Book, The Bile, then share it with all on “The Blaze, and the world, so that we can examine your evidence for ourselfs. We’re waiting !
____________________________________________________
Bruce // servant to King Jesus……………………… God’s Christ / man’s redeemer !
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:50pmThe burden of proof falls upon the person trying to convince someone else of something. If I said unicorns existed because I just know it in my heart, who here wouldn’t want proof of it? If I said that unicorns exist because I saw one, who here wouldn’t speak up and demand proof of it? If I said that unicorns existed and I had 80% of the American population believing me without proof, brought their children up to believe in them, demanded we pray to unicorns in public schools, and hung laws on courthouse walls regarding the care and feeding of unicorns, and specific instructions on how not to piss them off, all without showing any proof of the existence of unicorns to begin with, who here would have a problem with that?
Report Post »phd1147
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:37pmAll hail the mighty unicorn.
Report Post »Beej13
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:27amI object on behalf of honorable and peaceful griffins everywhere.
Report Post »sm29
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 5:39pmAtheist’s are not deep thinkers, and therefore the Scientific Method is the main threat to their broken thinking. Let’s do some basic scientific thinking. If one man saw a herd of unicorns and no one else did, than it would be foolish to put your faith in the existence of unicorn’s roaming the earth right now.
Report Post »Now lets look at life after death from a scientific point of view. Our families stretch back at least 4000 years and our forefathers keep confirming experiences with a “Great Clean Spirit” and near death experiences where their whole life streams before their minds eye in one second. This is documented 4000 years ago up to today. With 4000 years of history confirming experiences from every culture on earth, it would be foolish not to bank on there being an after-life. The Scientific Method kills corrupt thinking, no matter what your politics.
Beej13
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 5:44am“Atheist’s are not deep thinkers, and therefore the Scientific Method is the main threat to their broken thinking.”
The irony of that statement is remarkable. Deep introspection would serve you well, my friend. I’d recommend trading some of your confidence for an equal amount of curiosity…or humility. Either would be an improvement.
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:46pmSatan’s fools are exposing themselves for what they are in the open now without fear & with boldness. They cannot accept the truth of God because it burns them deep into their souls. They will try to discredit our Bible & Christians with full force. The atheists believe that now is the time for a full on assault. We must unite, stand strong, & follow God. He wins. There is truly no contest. Satan’s workers are not aware of this fact because they have angry hearts & evil mouths.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:50pmGod wins? Right, god does indeed kill and incite the death of his supposed “creation.” From the inquisition, to the burning of freethinkers at the stake, I weep for those killed in the name of religion.
Report Post »Edward
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:52pmwell said, as a born again Christian, I find my patience wearing thinner every day as I see my beliefs ridiculed. Athiests and non-believers alike will, unfortunately, have a rude awaking at the Judgment. Now is the time to recognize Christ, once this world has passed no amount of blame shifting will matter. Mormonism is also another misguided religion set up to deceive people from the Christ of the Holy Bible. That is all the revelation that is needed, Islam and its prophets along with Mormonism have all been deceived by Satan.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:57pmTake a drive around your neighborhood. Count the churches, religious billboards, and bumperstickers. Look at how many people wear some form of religious jewelry, pin, or carry a Bible around with them. Look on a dollar bill and find “In God We Trust”, recite the Pledge of Allegience, or look up how many churches pay taxes (zero).Then tell me how many Atheists you see doing the same thing and come back and tell me about beliefs and religion being shoved down your throat.
Report Post »bullcrapbuster
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:32pmEdward has also been deceived by Satan. Shucks that was easy to say. If he does not believe exactly as I do he is doomed. Probably a preaches trying to hang on to his meal ticket by demonizing other religions.
Report Post »SpiderPig
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:18am@Edward, What is the deal with you and others and attacking the Mormon religion? What proof do you have that is a “misguided” religion? Does the Bible spell that out for you? I think you believe more in the Bible than you do in Christ himself. What “church” do you belong to? How do you know that that church is the true church of God? Because it preaches the Bible? Then that means all churches that preach from the Bible are true. How do you know what your pastor is preaching is not a misguided interpretation of the Bible?
Report Post »It amazes me that so many people attack the Mormon religion simply because of an interpretation they have of the Bible.
Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 2:24pmI did as you suggested. There are three churches, only one of which looks like a church with a steeple and all. There were four bumperstickers that were religious in nature, and 23 that were political, and about 5 that were too crass to assume where they came from. I saw no one wearing any religious jewelry of any kind, nor anyone carrying bible around (and it’s Sunday, but after the church hour). I saw no billboards with any religious message or threats. I looked at the few bills I had in my wallet (after paying all my taxes) and discovered no particular God was mentioned. I think this proves that your sensitivity of religion being shoved down your throat is considerably overblown. Now I can’t print what I saw written on one tee-shirt or mention by name the things hanging from the bumper of a pickup truck. Is that kinda what you are getting at?
Report Post »johnny blaze
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:45pmEverything has a creator look at objects in our homes someone created them. Just like us and the earth God created these things. Things just dont appear in thin air and make itself. Just think we cant see the air but we feel it, just like God we might not see him but for those who believe in him feel his presence.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:49pmYour comment reeks of ignorance. Please study the intimate details of the natural sciences and you will see what I mean.
Report Post »fightinglee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:58pmcatharsis, hahaha. There are many christians who happen to have alot of studies in science. I am an engineer with a masters in applied mathematics. I dont feel my scientific knowledge in any way conflicts with my faith. In fact, it strengthens it. I believe in a God who works through science, howbeit with much more knowledge in the subject than you or I.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:03pmWhat’s that buddy? Math? Come back when you have a degree in evolutionary biology, and you have a working theory that debunks evolution.
Report Post »fightinglee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:10pmI dont need to debunk evolution. Evolution debunks evolution. Maybe you should study it sometime. Its funny how you say that the burden of proof lies on the believer in God, yet there is no burden of proof for evolution. Its a theory, because all smart evolutionists know that while natural selection is common sense, evolution between species is not possible.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 12:54amCatharsis, one of my degrees included courses in Comparative Vertebrate Morphology, Embryology, Genetics, Microbiology, Biology, Human Biology, Evolution, and of course Nuclear Physics and Statistics just for fun. Evolution has not been proven, nor has it ever been observed. Now we can modify our definitions so as to include things like observing changes in genetic frequencies, but of course those remain the same species, and every change is accounted for in the genome. That’s not evolution, that’s simply a way to pretend something has been proven.
Now to engineers, you apparently are unaware of the depth of science that their discipline requires. Certainly it requires a math acuity, but also an understanding of the scientific method, physics, chemistry, corrosion chemistry, and yes, more math. To suppose that because they did not take courses towards a degree in biological sciences makes them unqualified to have an interest and actually study and be well versed in those topics, is what I’d call extreme elitism on your part.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 2:06pmSparky:
And you live where? In a town of 10?
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:25pmFoxhole, what do my degrees have to do with the size town in which I reside?
Just kidding, I suspected your post got put in the wrong place. I currently live in a town with over 3500 people. Other than a few drug dealers, a number of registered sex offenders, an armed robber or two, an occasional high security prison escapee and some democrats (some count double with the aforementioned), it’s a pretty nice place.
Report Post »swehes
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:42pmI trust Glenn Beck. He is doing a great job bringing to light the ideas of the Founding Fathers of this country and more important he help people open their eyes to what is coming. As it says in the scriptures, “Every knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ…” It is a day to look forward to. :)
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:41pmWhat if the existent God is Thor, Zeus or perhaps Allah? I pity you as well as myself, as we are both doomed.
Report Post »fightinglee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:49pmAlright O’Donnell. Good one.
Report Post »I think its funny how atheists spend so much time thinking about something they do not want to believe in. Its almost like a religion in itself.
Double_hawk
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:31amDid you ever think that maybe they’re all talking about the same divine being, just with different views and beliefs about him?
Report Post »TunaBlue
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 2:31amCarthasis,
Why are atheist so angered by something they don’t believe exists in the first place? It seems to me that an atheist wouldn’t waste a moment trying to disprove or even communicate with someone who does believe in God. What’s the payoff?
Report Post »tommee
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 4:50pmHey TUNABLUE
You say, “It seems to me that an atheist wouldn’t waste a moment trying to disprove or even communicate with someone who does believe in God. What’s the payoff?”
Here’s the problem atheists have with religious people. If Christians, for example, kept their beliefs to themselves, I doubt you would ever hear from atheists. But they don’t. The religious right are relentlessly trying to impose their beliefs on others by having their beliefs turned into the law of the land. Abortion, Intelligent Design and Gay Rights are prime examples.
Not all Americans have the same beliefs as religious people, so the imposition of those beliefs onto citizens who do not share those values is a threat to their very being.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 2:10pmHi Tommee, I hope you won’t object that I modified your own words: “Not all Americans have the same beliefs as non-religious people, so the imposition of their beliefs onto citizens who do not share those values is a threat to their very being.”
The real question is who gets to impose their values on others? See, extinguishing the life of an innocent human being is called murder by our judicial system. So, if you abort a baby, you are taking an innocent life. Who is to protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
Many people of faith do not care that evolution is taught in government schools, but do care when it is taught as a fact. An animal has never been observed changing from one species to another, nor can experiments be set up to cause this to happen. No one has been able to produce “life” from inorganic materials, even though we know all the chemicals in a cell. So why be disingenious to teach it as a fact? Because it is the non-believer’s way to try to wrestle the faith out of our children. We say it is only fair if you demand to teach evolution, that you also teach other ways that life could have been created, otherwise, teach evolution only as the “possibility” that it truly is.
As to gay rights, gay people have all the “rights” that I have, and now, perhaps a few more. Is it true that gay males have a much shorter life span than a heterosexual male? In nature, I know of no animal that exclusively remains and has relations with its own sex. Who will you promote next? Why not pedophiles? Why do you not allow them equal rights?
Report Post »tommee
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 6:10pmHello SPARKY, thank you for your comments.
No, I don’t mind your change of words from “religious people” to “non-religious people”. The message remains the same. People should not have the right to impose their beliefs on others who do not hold those beliefs. That being said, your revision suggests that non believers try to force religious folk to behave and live as they do. This is furthest from the truth. You never hear of a non-believer telling others they must have an abortion, or you must teach Evolution in bible class, or you must raise your children to love gay people. The dictatorial element seems to always be on the side of the religious people.
About abortion: Most pro-choice people do not believe a fetus is a sentient human being until well into the pregnancy. They have a difference of opinion from anti-abortionists who maintain that because a fetus has the potential to grow into a human being, it is a human being. Taken to the extreme, some even believe that because human eggs and sperm also have human potential within them, birth control too is a form of murder. That’s stretching it, but who draws the line on what is human or not, or what is right or wrong? The anti-abortionist says, ‘I am right in my opinions so you are not allowed to have an abortion’. The pro-choice person on the other hand says, ‘I don’t agree with your definition of humanity, so I want the choice to have an abortion’. See the difference? The anti-abortionist says, ‘Regardless of your opinions about humanity, I am right, you have no choice, you can‘t have an abortion’. At least the pro-choice person is giving the anti-abortionist the right to choose not to have an abortion. A pro-choice person never tells someone they have to have an abortion, say in the case of rape. Abortion is an example of religious people trying to force their opinionated beliefs on other people who do not share those beliefs.
About Intelligent Design: Evolution, widely regarded as the basis of all biology and modern medicine, is an advanced scientific theory taught in science classes. Music, Art, History, English, or any other non-scientific subject are not a part of any science curriculum. Why should Religion in the form of Intelligent Design be taught there? It’s not that scientists are trying to ban the teaching of Intelligent Design. They are just saying it should be taught in religious classes not science classes. Science is the world of experimentation – hypothesis and verification through evidence -and Evolution is a classic example of scientific theory unfolding according to the scientific method. How does Intelligent Design fit this model? It doesn’t. It’s source is the bible and religious belief. At least the scientists aren’t trying to force religious teachers to teach Evolution! Can you imagine someone going to the clergy to demand that Evolution be taught in Sunday school? It doesn’t happen. Intelligent Design is a belief that religious people try to force on other people by teaching it in areas where it does not belong.
About Gay Rights. To say that gay people have all the rights that you do SPARKY is just wrong. These folks are constantly under attacked by the righteous religious as sinners who don’t have the right to marriage and other privileges that straight people have. To group these millions of law abiding Americans with pedophiles is something I would not have expected from you after reading your comments up to this point. Surely you must know that most pedophiles are not gay but straight, unless you consider the Catholic clergy. But then again, I should not have been surprised. It is an example of religious intolerance to beliefs and lifestyles that are different from the teachings of the bible. Gay people are in a neverending battle to protect their freedoms to choose who they want as life partners in marriage. These good people are either fighting to get the right to marry or fighting to protect that right if they have it. Again religious people are trying to impose their beliefs on others who do not have the same beliefs.
It is little wonder why atheists are so vocal in their anti-religious declarations. They are constantly under attack by a self righteous religious right that is bent on turning their Christian beliefs into the law of the land so everyone will be forced to live as they do. Does that sound like America to you?
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 11:22pmTommee, you have surely twisted most everything I said, and even lied about some of it. Shame on you. Given that this is your style, I’ll only comment on a few things.
You say my “.. revision suggests that non believers try to force religious folk to behave and live as they do. This is furthest from the truth. You never hear of a non-believer telling others they must have an abortion, or you must teach Evolution in bible class, or you must raise your children to love gay people.”
Non-believers demand that our children in the government schools that we pay for, be taught evolution, and that it be taught as fact to our children. Your value is rammed down our throats. You miss the biblical basis of how the actions of the society affect all in the nation in God’s eyes. Therefore, promoting abortion is anathema to a Christian’s national identity. Your values have been forced down our collective throats.
It is God’s wish that we teach our children to love everyone, and this most certainly includes those who are gay, in addition to those with disabilities, those from other countries and cultures, and those who spitefully use us. However, our schools are now forcing our children to believe that a lifestyle in which the males have a lower life expectancy solely due to that lifestyle, it is a perfectly suitable lifestyle, on par with all others. Scriptures state that this is not a lifestyle that God encourages, but as Christians, we must now have your values and the reverse of our faith shoved down our throats.
You say: “About abortion: Most pro-choice people do not believe a fetus is a sentient human being until well into the pregnancy. They have a difference of opinion from anti-abortionists who maintain that because a fetus has the potential to grow into a human being, it is a human being”
No Tommee, it is a scientific fact that the fetus is a human being, not some emotioinal feeling. This is determined by its DNA. Its DNA is unique in genome from its parents, and also unique in quantity from all other animals. If you were to take some cells from a fetus and give them to a geneticist to identify, they would be identified as human cells. See, it does not grow into a human being, it already is one. And, if no one takes away its life, it will ultimately develop into what we call old age.
And, then there is your lie about what I said. You say I said I group gays with pedophiles, and I never said any such a thing. You say “Surely you must know that most pedophiles are not gay but straight, unless you consider the Catholic clergy.” And I say, I don‘t think that has been established quite the way you’d like. However, terming the Catholic clergy problem as “pedophile Priests” is a misnomer. The predominant cases brought to light involved a Priest with a post-pubescent male. That is not pedophilia.
And while I feel I’ve already wasted too much time with you, I’ll mention what is wrong with evolution and intelligent design. Evolution has never been observed. Creation of life has never been observed. Since observation and repeatability are cornerstones of the Scientific Method, and since neither can be designed into an experiment to prove or disprove evolution due to the estimated time it would take, then it can never be stated as a scientific fact. I never promoted teaching Intelligent Design along with evolution in school. But, to toss it out because some crafty people were successful in casting it as “repackaged creationism” was poor science since another tenent of the Scientific Method is to fully test ideas that might prove a theory false. Further examples of poor science was to fire science professors because they were people of faith. More of your values rammed down our throats. But, I sense that does not bother you one iota.
Report Post »tommee
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 1:33pmHey SPARKY
I too dislike wasting my time, but feel compelled to write a few words to clear up some of your many confusions.
You most certainly did group pedophiles with gay Americans. These are your words: “Who will you promote next? Why not pedophiles? Why do you not allow them equal rights? Your pedophile remarks were made in the same paragraph, immediately after your comments on the gay life style. For me it’s hard to imagine how that is not grouping them together. I also take issue with your use of the word ‘promote’. Gay people do not try to turn anybody who is not into being gay. They are just struggling to live a life reflective of who they are. The only people promoting their lifestyle are religious people who think their values should be everybody else’s.
About your DNA evidence as factual proof that an undeveloped fetus is a sentient human being: What about a strand of hair full of human DNA … do you consider it a human being? How about a glob of spit dripping of human DNA… is this a person too? A corpse… is it a human or human remains? How about a monkey with 95% of it’s DNA being the same as humans… are monkeys 95% human? One would think the 95% shared DNA between humans and monkeys would support the Theory of Evolution! Go figure. Truth is, being human is much more than simply containing the building blocks of humanity. To be a human being is to do the things people do… walk, talk, think, love, work, eat, sleep, play, worship… and so on. Early fetus development sees none of these human activities.
Speaking of evolution, your claim that it is taught as fact in our schools is wrong. Rather, it is taught as the Theory of Evolution. No one that I am aware of has ever claimed it to be complete or proven beyond any doubt in some laboratory. It‘s strength comes from it’s ability to rationally explain our existence in the world. Evolutionary principles are even being used by today’s scientists to deal with the super bug problem of bacteria developing immunity to antibiotics. The Theory of Evolution works, and it does so elegantly.
You know what really ruffles the feathers of the religious folk SPARKY? God is irrelevant in the study of evolution. Evolutionary scientists go about their business with no mention of God at all. What does it matter if God created or didn’t create the world. The world is unfolding in a way that can be observed, described, understood and explained without any reference to any Creator. The only people sticking God into the mix are religious fanatics who feel left out of the picture.
The Theory of Evolution is taught in science classes all over the world. Nobody is “ramming down” value opinions on you or your children SPARKY. If someone wants to study science, they will find Theory of Evolution to be an important part of it. It won’t go away. And I repeat, it is taught all over the world. I’m sure you can send your children to school with a note requesting that they be excused from class when evolution is discussed. But what would that serve? Ignorance is not a virtue in today’s world.
There is something I find troubling your remarks that seems to reveal the true color of the Christian religious element in America. You say, “You miss the biblical basis of how the actions of the society affect all in the nation in God’s eyes. Therefore, promoting abortion is anathema to a Christian’s national identity. Your values have been forced down our collective throats”. At the risk of being called a liar again, you seem be verifying and approving the right of stamping out an individuals freedoms in favor of a collective value system called the “Christian national identity”. This collective mentality in God’s eyes explains why religious fanatics believe they have not only the right, but a duty, to tell other people how they should live their lives.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:01pmTommee, you lied and I exposed you for it. It would have been best for you to apologize for lying about me. But your stupid reply was probably sufficient for all to see how you tried to totally manipulate what I said. I was ROLF with your silly excuse that since I mentioned pedophiles in the same paragraph, that was the same as saying they were the same. What a foolish argument. I thought you were better than that.
Your other drivel is probably as lame. I stopped reading.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:31pmROLF = rolling on lawn far*ing
Report Post »tommee
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 8:33amNice try SPARKY, but your ad hominem attack of calling me a liar me ain’t gonna work. Yes you did associate pedophiles with gay people and it’s a common gay bashing ploy used by religious fanatics across the country these days; a the slippery slope argument that if you give the gays with their dirty filthy lifestyle equal rights, you’ll have to give disgusting pedophiles their rights too. Maybe next time you’ll be more careful in you selection of words. Hope you learn from this. Have a good day.
Report Post »RicohCop
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:37pmIt doesn’t matter if you believe in God or not. You are not that significant and neither am I. In the end if there is no God I lived a good life and I believe Glenn Beck has as well. Can you say that? If there is a God I pitty all who are prepared for that meeting!
Report Post »RicohCop
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:41pmare not prepared……
Report Post »elosogrande
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:34pmO‘Donnell doesn’t think he has a problem, because the devil assured him that there are no atheists in hell.
Report Post »fightinglee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:46pmhahahaha. That was nice. I see what you did there.
Report Post »BB671
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:33pmI believe in God but I do not believe in the Bible!!!!!! As a book of history it is just down right unbelievable…. There are so many reasons why I think the bible is more of a book of wisdom than an accounting of historical fact. The Bible is not the word of God, it is the word of man and therefore cannot be trusted. The true word of God is displayed before us on daily basis and we simply just walk on bye!!! When you contemplate the vastness of space or the simple fact that we exist at all is a miracle of divine inspiration. Science tells us that we only use 10% of our brain….. thats because God exists in the other 90%… I do not need a book to teach me right from wrong!!! I instictually know that if I hurt someone, it is wrong because I then hurt deep inside!!! Religions are so different yet are so similar! Different beliefs built around the same basic basic principles… Most religions are not belief systems, they are simply diets!! Why would a god that created me, my wife, the earth, and universe give 2 cents to whether I eat pork, fried foods, or have to work on Sunday??? Stories created to gain sociatle control… Before there were Governments, there was religion… I will not dismiss the goodness that comes from Religious groups.. The bible is a boiled down lesson plan to a happy and health life.. As lond as religion does no harm, I will do religion no harm and will gladly return a “Merry Christmas”…But if if choses to harm, like the Branch Davidians or the Islamic religion, then it will be met with Gods justic!!! Im just saying!!!!
Report Post »obama_binpharteen
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:48pmwell said…
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:28pmYou are truly lost.
Report Post »Luke21
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:19pmBB671,
Amazing insight. Maybe you should read the Bible – you might be surprised just how much it reveals to you & agrees w/ you on (to a point). Start in Romans and work through Paul’s letters (epistles). Indeed you do know right from wrong w/out anyone telling you. The Bible claims that God put that knowledge on your heart as well as knowledge . You are correct in that the heavens declare He is God and the mountains declare His glory. You will also be glad to know that the dietary laws in the Bible (to distinguish from Islam) were in place for a reason as an illustration (not to mention, health – you can eat under or even un cooked clean animals and not get sick – not so the unclean ones). After Christ came – sacrifice pointed to His atonement as the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world – the dietary laws were abolished (in Acts). I could go on but you’ll have more fun discovering for yourself. As for its historical accuracy – if you do open minded and honest research, you’ll be surprised that there is no history book on the planet like it, not only is it accurate but it has accurately predicted history in advance (Daniel laid out 4 major kindoms in advance w/out question, well before Greece & Rome had risen to power).
Regardless the Smithsonian (no friend of Christianity or the Bible as the word of God) has this to say about its accuracy (http://www.2think.org/ssotb.shtml):
Report Post »In short, it is impossible to verify the actual events recorded in the Biblical account of the flood. On the other hand, much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories. These Biblical records can be and are used as are other ancient documents in archeological work. For the most part, historical events described took place and the peoples cited really existed. This is not to say that names of all peoples and places mentioned can be identified today, or that every event as reported in the historical books happened exactly as stated. There are conflicts between present archeological evidence and historical reports that may result from a lack of information on our part or from misunderstandings or mistakes by the ancient writers.
webpreacher
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:34pmHey BB671,
So you believe in God, well thats good and you are right, God does indeed exist ! So then God created us and everything in the universe and on earth, including the earth and life therein found. That being the truth, wouldn’t it be reasonable then to think that God would want to make himself known, provided a way that we, mankind could know Him, who He is, and what we can expect from Him and what He expects from us? Well, He did, and it is “The Bible”, it is the way God chose to reveal Himself to mankind! Now I know you don’t believe the Bible, you have made your position kinown, however, your argument that the Bible is of man, was written by man, can not hold water ! Also you claim that it is inaccurate in its Historical content, well, nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is, The Bible (KJV), is the MOST HISTORICALLY ACCURATE book in the World, and that has been well established throughtout the world. Every name / person/ date / events/ places/ sceintific information / Kings / timelines / ALL have been accredited and validated as correct and accurate ! Also, as for your claim that the Bible is the words of man, written by man also will not hold water, here’s why, The Bible was written over a period of 2000 years, in three languages by the pen-hand of 40 men, of which most of them never had contact, nor knew one another personally and yet, not one contradition can be found….NOT ONE! So, how do you BB671 explain that, and if you can show any one contrdiction in the Bible, you are most welcomed & invited to show where in the Bible it is and explain why it would be a contrdition. Bare in mind though, over the past 1000 years, hundreds of NON -BELIEVERS have attempted to discredit the Bible ! Many of them, who were in their own right,, great historians, language experts, archeolotist, scientist, even some Lawyers, and ALL have failed miserably, and many of them actually became believers after pouring thourgh the Holy Scritpures, and became preachers of Christ risen & Salvation in His name !!
__________________________________________________
Just so you’ll know,
Bruce // servant to King Jesus…………………………. God’s Christ / man’s redeemer !
Report Post »JohnJoseph
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:29pmI watch Glenn Beck and I learn much about “history and current events”. However, when Glenn Beck tries to talk about “spiritual things” I tune him out. I’m not going to say anything about his religion. I heard him say that he and his family visited many different churches and the reason they attend a Mormon church is because his daughter liked the church. That is a weak reason for attending a church. Glenn is going to be held responsible before God on how he raised his daughter, his daughter will not be held responsible for making the decision. In regards to the book of Revelation. First off Glenn asks about what are the “signs”. Any Bible student will know that “signs and wonders” were given to one group of people only (the Jews/Israel). Glenn keeps referring to what we are going to experience here on earth, but Glenn does not “rightly divide the Word of Truth”. The verses in question about earthquakes (found in Matthew and Revelation) have to do with the Tribulation Period. In Revelation Chapter 4:1 is when the “church” (the body of Christ and the Holy Spirit are taken out of the world). Therefore, I am not looking for earthquakes or famines or any other thing. I am listening for the sound of the trumpet where Jesus will come in the cloud (the Rapture) to take out me and all other believers.
Report Post »KnightofTruth
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:59pmJohnJoseph, I would like to ask you something that I have never really gotten a clear answer to. What exactly IS the Rapture? I am a Christian, and I have heard of it, but it is never spoken of in the Bible. At least, how I understand it, people who believe in the Rapture believe that they as Believers will be taken out of the earth before the suffering and the wars and before evil begins to destroy the earth. Is that the general belief? Understand I am not disputing your beliefs, only wanting to comprehend them.
Report Post »Also, when in revelation it states that God’s spirit will depart from the earth, it simply means that he will cease to keep giving his spirit to sustain people’s life and souls. Thus, people who do not already have his spirit will not be able to get it. Or it will be far, far harder for people to “believe” so to speak, once it is gone. And when his spirit departs, evil and injustice will begin to flourish.
Who knows?
Who really knows?
It could be happening now.
338lapua
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:25pm@knightoftruth. You need to read your Bible. Do NOT listen to religious “leaders”. They will lead you astray. All of the answers you seek are contained in the Bible. You obviously seek him, therefore you will be able to discern the truth. I would answer you, but I don’t even want you to believe me. Salvation is yours for the asking, all the answers are in his word, find them and find him. As I am continually and lovingly told “look it up”. It is the best advice I can give.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 3:41pmKnight, please read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. Then pray for wisdom from the Spirit in understanding what this means.
Report Post »JimConstitution
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 9:27amnot true, matt 24 Jesus says that these and other signs will be before the tribulation. also the great falling away of the chruch (catholics?) and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition must be fulfilled.
Report Post »clockwatcher
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:29pmHate god love the government?????? They are sick at msnbc.
Report Post »Touchdown67
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:26pm“There are no atheists in a foxhole”
Report Post »NancyBee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:29pmTouchdown……………that was a good one!
Report Post »stopspendingourmoney
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:35amPlease watch this foxholeAtheist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVi1GAHrILI
Report Post »Edct
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:23pmThe day is coming when all these morons who don‘t believe in God will be in hell for eternity wishing they weren’t so stupid when they were here…for eternity…a long time for a person to realize their ignorance and narcissism was really not worth it.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:33pmIgnorance and narcissism? If there is any character in this story that reeks of narcissism, it is the god of abraham – yahweh, or whomever. The bible is shockingly ignorant, and is a detestable work worthy of being dismissed.
Report Post »fightinglee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:56pmI think it is these comments that create many problems. If you truly believe in God, then why the hatred for those who dont? Why condemn others to hell for not believing? I personally believe in God, and in so doing, see no reason to even pretend to have the knowledge of just how God will judge in the end. The truth is, there are terrible Christians out there and terrible atheists and then there are good ones of each. I think it would be pretty silly to just suppose because you were christian you were all safe, while at the same time laughing at others who do not and condemning them to hell. Me and you believe in very different Gods. I dont want to be in heaven if it is surrounded by people laughing and mocking the ones in hell.
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:16pm@catharsis. You are free to reject or accept the word of God.We really don’t need you.
Report Post »JimConstitution
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 9:21amCatharsis,
“Ignorance and narcissism? If there is any character in this story that reeks of narcissism, it is the god of abraham – yahweh, or whomever. The bible is shockingly ignorant, and is a detestable work worthy of being dismissed.”
and yet u r here speaking of this foolish book. consider, why r u even here if God didnt send u?
Report Post »Hawke17
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:19pm.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.” – Thomas Pynchon (from Gravity’s Rainbow).
Report Post »JimConstitution
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 9:09amahh obama.
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:16pmFOXHOLEATHEIST
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:59pm
“He’s getting Atheists and Progressives mixed up. While many Atheists are progressives, there are progressives that do believe in god. How can Atheists believe in something that doesn’t exist? To believe in god would mean a belief that you hold magic powers, belief that you are immortal, etc…This is an absolutely stupid blanket statement that only the uneducated would make. Oh wait, Beck IS uneducated. (Foxholeathiest)”
If I follow your line of thinking you don’t believe in GOD, electricity, or oxygen.
Please expound in you infinite wisdom all the merits of athiestism, to another atheist on huff- and- puff post. You know home of Ariana Huffington champion of the unpaid slave labor contributors to her web site. I’m sure they are all atheist too.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:53pmWe can test for oxygen levels and move it from one container to another. We can literally see energy in different forms as well as harness it and show its impact on our physical lives. We can’t see or make a test for god. That is a poor argument.
Report Post »mattymcd
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 8:46amFoxhole…since you apparently only believe scientifically demonstrated results…what scientifically demonstrated results do you have to prove that God does not exist and that this universe all came about randomly without an intelligent design? I‘m sure that since you’re a scientist and since you seem to have this all figured out that you must have the proof…please show it…thanks!!
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 2:02pmThere isn’t a scientific test for god. Until you produce evidence of god, I won’t believe. When god can be observed and tested through the double-blind scientific method and offered up for peer review and pass the scrutiny, and then published and accepted as theory/fact, then I will believe in it.
Report Post »Luke21
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:00pmIs there a double-blind, scientific test for “thought”? I.e. is there a test that some scientist can run to tell us what is in someone’s mind? If not, then you must not believe in thought. How do you double blind test a language, or information? What double blind test can you run on an automobile or a watch (void of any mfg stamping & owners manual) that can prove it had a designer? Do you believe that cars have designers? Watches have watch makers? Ultimately your problem is a willing blindness and perhaps some ignorance in thinking that a finite, temporal being can somehow measure an infinite one, a being that claims to be outside the boundaries of time, a being that ordained the very laws you wish to test Him against.
Report Post »Luke21
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:32pmThe sad truth Fox is that if you would honestly & earnestly seek Him, you would find Him. Proverbs 8:17. He wants you to know Him. But you seem to want so desparetly to “know” He doesn’t exist. I don’t understand why that would be but you do. Jesus said that men reject the light (Him) because their deeds and pursuits are sinful, foolish, good for nothing (John 3). All men have sinned & fallen short of Gods glory & standard for eternal life (Romans 3:23, Matt 5:48). Yet He, God the Son, gave up His life that we might be reconciled to God through Him. He who knew no sin or evil became sin for us (2 Cor 5:21) that we might be reconciled to God.
Report Post »Eternal life is for the asking (John 3:16, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13). God offers forgiveness of all sin (past, present, future) and promises to remember them no more (Psalm 103:12, Jeremiah 31:34). If you want proof that God exists, then seek Him w/ all your heart and mind. He will reveal Himself to you, but you won’t find Him in a petri dish (though you will see His handy work :-)). God bless you in spite of your doubt.
Jaycen
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:12pmI don’t care if someone is an Atheist. What’s funny to me, is how evangelical so many Atheists are. They will proselytize more than any “religious” person I know.
It’s shocking how aggressive Atheists can be when trying to convince others of their beliefs. I believe there is a God. I think the Jewish faith is probably the closest “best understanding” of God, as I perceive it. No offense to my Christian neighbors, but worship of Jesus as if he were God is too close to breaking the 1st Commandment in my mind.
Having said that, I’d never put down a Christian for his beliefs. I’d hope that in this country, we could agree to disagree over the specifics without resorting to personal attacks.
Report Post »SHASTADIANE1
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:40pmJaycen
Report Post »@ The Bible also says that Jesus said “no one shall come to the Father except through me”. Your salvation depends on your belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God who died for our sins and was ressurected in 3 days. The Jews have always been God’s chosen people. When Israel is attacked and driven into the Negrev, I doubt that there will be any of them by this time that do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God. Also, we look at the earthquakes and wars we see these days, and cry “oh no, it must be the end of the world”. No, I believe it is the “days of sorrows” leading up to the Great Tribulation. That little earthquake in Japan was NOTHING to what there will coming, that is my understanding of it. Check out http://www.tribulationperiod.com. Click on The Blog. You might learn a little, and if not, then nothing ventured nothing gained. I do feel sorry for those who believe there is nothing else but this world. Are you sure you are Jewish or Catholic, whatever it was? Sounds more like Jehovah Witness. Just wondering, and I don’t mean to be disrespectful, just trying to understand your thinking.
338lapua
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:08pmThe jews were the example we were NOT to follow. They repeatedly did not fulfill what God asked of them. Time and time again in the Bible Jesus admonishes the jews to be what they are supposed to be. And they did what they wanted instead. This is not a hateful screed, just a reminder. Do not emulate the jews, do what God tells you clearly in his word.
Report Post »Luke21
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:45pmJaycen,
What do you mean by “the Jewish faith”? Do you mean Kabbalah? Or are do you mean “Old Testament” Judaism? From your comment I suspect the latter. If you read the Old Covenant (testament) carefully you’ll realize that Israel was always looking for her Messiah (Son of God). The difference between Christianity and traditional Judaism is that the disciples of Jesus believed He was Him (the Messiah), whereas traditional Judaism is still looking for Him (which oddly comes to the rise of the beast & false prophet in Revelation also foretold in the OT, see the prince of the people to come of Daniel 9 and the 70 weeks). The gospel accounts in the New Covenant (Testament) makes it clear that the Pharisees understood who Jesus claimed to be – they weren’t arguing w/ Jesus that there is no Son of God (Messiah), they were just not pleased it was Him… By the way the first “Christians” were Jews. Christianity is a Jewish “religion” (Christians tend to speak of Christianity as a relationship w/ the Living God, not a religion). We don’t worship a man we worship God who has revealed Himself as 3 persons, the Father, the Son (who always was God and clothed Himself in humanity to be acquainted w/ our weaknesses and to be a willing and perfect substitute in atoning for the sins of mankind), and the Holy Spirit – who dwells in Christ’s own. 3 persons that make 1 God. The old school Jews believe the same (Deuteronomy 6:4 and Genesis 1:26 give you clues to the triune nature of God) – they just don’t except Yeshua (Jesus) as Messiah. God bless you and may you know the truth. He says that He loves those who love Him and if you will earnestly seek Him you will find Him (proverbs 8:17).
Report Post »JimConstitution
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 8:58amJesus is God. He is the 2nd person of the Godhead.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 1:59pmWe are aggressive because we are frustrated at the level of ignorance religion perpetuates. If you see a child who can’t read, don’t you want to teach him/her? When they refuse to want to learn to read, don’t you feel a level of pity and frustration for them? Then when they try to argue with you about something intellectual without knowing anything about the subject, what do you feel? Of course we are passionate about our stand on religion. We are passionate about knowledge. We want to share it with you and open your eyes.
Report Post »Kathleen
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:11pmThis really is becoming the battle between the Devil and God. The Devil knows where the truth is and that is that it is in the Bible so now he is openly making his moves to attack it.
Report Post »SevenTrumpets42
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:10pmThis man’s ignorance is immense. Revelation, along with Daniel, provide a glimpse into the end times, or the time of Jacob’s Trouble. This is the time just prior to Christ’s second coming where the fullness of evil is revealed, the saint’s are persecuted/martyred and all living persons end up in one of two “camps.” Ample revelation of the nature of sin and the nature of God’s love is on display. Worldwide catastrophes mark the end of corporate grace and the unleashing of Satan’s powers. Jesus permits this to occur to show the full effects of sin and the nature of evil so it will not raise it’s ugly head throughout the rest of eternity. God permits distress to bring a wayword world to Him since the still small voice of the Holy Spirit has been ignored. In the end, Satan is vanquished and all who choose evil. The saints spend eternity in the presence of their Saviour in new physical bodies! Amen!
Report Post »commonsenseguy
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:10pmfiction?????? okay,when you get to the pearly gates,remember god will ask you why you called his laws,fiction,i just ask that if i am behind him,in line,or anyone else,that god let us move over a little bit before he opens the door to hell, Glenn,has stirred up a hornets nest,and the left can’t help but get stung, by their actions and words, so keep it Glenn they are pulling out their hair. and may god continue to bless you and your family and hard working staff, with out you ,we would all still be in the dark,and that is not where i want to be again. THANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:41pmI can give it plenty of reasons why I would call its book a work of fiction and then demand a reason why it was so poorly written.
Report Post »Venom
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:58pmWhy does it never surprise me when an Atheist wants visual proof to believe in God…There is visual proof everywhere, look at your body, the most complex thing ever devised, that man himself could never dream of creating anything like it, but that was made by some chain reaction right? Yeah, but i have a blind faith right?? Look in the mirror.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:41pmVenom, perhaps you should make a YouTube video about this? ;)
Report Post »S G Applebee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:37pmCOMMONSENSEGUY
Report Post »Why is it that the only people who see the “Pearly Gates” when they have a near death experience, are people who believe in the Bible?
hillbillyinny
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:58pmFoxholeatheist:
Your comments about the Bible being poorly written–are you reading the original Keone Greek where the writing can be correctly judged? What are your scholarly credentials to critique this ancient language?
Or are you basing your assumptions on one or various translations including the “old English” of the KJV? When you don’t know “the language” (idioms that are used specifically in the books compiled into the Bible), how would you expect to properly understand the message?
Let him that has ears, hear; and him that has eyes, see. “At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: ‘O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike.’” Matthew 11:25 (NLT 2007)
Report Post »tommee
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 4:02pmVENOM or anybody else… please answer a question for me.
You say you have visual proof for God’s existence. Your proof is to look at your body to see “the most complex thing ever devised, that man himself could never dream of creating anything like it”.
I say it’s reasonable to assume if God created man he would have to be at least as complex as man, which leads to this question: If God is at least as complex as man, who created Him?
But my question for you is slightly different: How can you feel uncomfortable with man’s complexity and at the same time not feel the need to ask the same complexity question of God?
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 11:26pmTommee, my question to you is that if matter (or energy) can neither be created or destroyed, where did all this matter come from? And the energy?
Report Post »salvawhoray
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:07pmWatch a movie called “the Man From Earth”
Report Post »klevalt
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:01pmpretty scary when anyone questions the truths written by God. I will pray for them
Report Post »Taquoshi
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:53pmWalkwithme1966 -
Revelation was written by the Apostle John on the Island of Patmos where he was exiled. He records quite accurately that he had a vision of the end times. Can you believe in Jesus Christ and not believe in Revelation? Yeah. Revelation is a prophetic book that has not yet occurred, to the best of my knowledge, those it is getting real scary with the “wars and rumors of wars” breaking out all over the place, along with all of the natural disasters. Do I understand Revelations? Not particularly well, but I am content in the fact that I believe God is sovereign and He is in control. I’m willing to trust Him with my life and think He knows what he is about. I sure don’t.
I don’t know if that answered any of your questions, but I don’t see any benefit in arguing with people about whether there are athetists in foxholes, or whether belief in the prophecies in Revelation will get someone into Heaven. Those are so much dust in the wind. The bottom line is Jesus Christ and his Redemptive work on the cross. Everything else is gravy.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:50pmOnly they weren’t written by God, but by men.
Report Post »Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:32pmtaquoshi: Much of the book of Revelation has already happened. There is very little of prophecy left to be fulfilled. I did a time-line of Revelation several years ago and found it to be a most amazing book. To call Revelation fictitious is ridiculous because that would be denying past history that is recorded, and some that we and our parents have lived through.
Report Post »Revelation 22: 11 tells us: Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.
We are coming to a time in history when TRUTH is going to cover the earth, and those that want to understand truth will seek it and attain it. We are also coming to a time when God is going to put His Whole House of Israel together again as we find in Ezekiel 37. Satan’s greatest fear is that people will come out of the darkness of ignorance, and come into the light (knowledge). Then he knows that his last gasp has come to an end and he faces hells fires FOREVER. Satan will do everything he can to stop God’s family Israel from coming together; he can’t stand even the thought of it happening! Isaiah 14: 17 tells us that the man (speaking about satan in this chapter) who made the world a desert (a sterile place), who overthrew its cities AND WOULD NOT LET HIS CAPTIVES GO HOME?…refers to the fact that satan kept people in ignorance and so destroyed their origin that they could not find their way home…especially the 12 tribes of Israel. That is why the people behind the one world order and the open society are so busy at work…doing the work of their father satan. Verses 1 – 2 of Isaiah 14 tell us: The Lord will have COMPASSION ON JACOB (all 12 tribes of Israel); ONCE AGAIN HE WILL CHOOSE ISRAEL (as we see in Ezekiel 37 – 38) and will settle them in their own land. Aliens (Gentiles) will join them and UNITE with the HOUSE OF JACOB. Nations will take them (the Israelites) and BRING THEM TO THEIR OWN PLACE. And THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL (of the Northern Kingdom of Israel that were taken captive to Assyria and never returned to the Promised Land, and those of the Southern Kingdom of Judah that went into captivity to Babylon but were later allowed to return to the Promised Land) WILL POSSESS THE NATIONS (plural) as menservants and maidservants in the Lord’s land. THEY WILL MAKE CAPTIVES OF THEIR CAPTORS and RULE OVER THEIR OPPRESSORS.
The Bible tells us that even our idle words spoken in this life, we will have to give an account for. To speak evil of God Almighty is a terrible thing. There will come a day when those that engage in such things will regret that they spoke against God. King David said that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God…I would not want to be in the shoes of those that have done so.
My how the news media has changed over the years…going from reporting the news, to making it. We live in terrible times, but those that TRUST IN GOD will come out of it intact! We have God’s Word on that!!! :)
Katayno
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:55pmEncinom: God is into writing on TABLETS…men are inspired by God to write the scriptures.
Report Post »Your comment made NO sense.
stopspendingourmoney
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:10amAny of you atheists out there may want to watch this and is also good for people that believe in God.
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-v1Fppjlvc
WISEPENNY
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:35amMary M. Tebbe: Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:32pm
Report Post »taquoshi: Much of the book of Revelation has already happened. There is very little of prophecy left to be fulfilled. I did a time-line of Revelation several years ago and found it to be a most amazing book.
—————————————————————————————–
We are in the last verses of chapter 3 because the start of chapter 4 clearly indicates a “type and shadow” of the rapture of the church, and representative of the “gathering together” about to take place. Chapter 5 introduces the book with the seven seals that is opened in the first verse of chapter 6 that unleashes the white horse (NWO). We are seeing the stage set for that event to unfold and you ain’t seen nothing yet!
Study that timeline some more. You missed it the first time through, Sista. :-)
ICANHANDLETHETRUTH
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:59pmAll I can say is ” we are in some crazy times ‘. odonnel is so full of himself it is pathetic.
Report Post »WhiteTeaParty
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:50pmI’m sorry it is Beck who is full of himself.
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:55pm@whiteteaparty, dear sally, we have heard the one trick pony that is white teaparty. YAWN Please go back to MOVEON or HUFFPO. You have NOTHING TO SAY! And you are a SALLY SALLY SALLY
Report Post »WhiteTeaParty
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:47pm@338
I’m here to stay darlin, you don’t like it??? Oh well!
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:16am@WTP…I love it, your hate nourishes me.
Report Post »~~~~~~~~BURP~~~~~~~~
338lapua
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:22amIt would be nice if your soros funded persona would come up with AT LEAST a couple more topics of hate.
Report Post »All your ilk hate Glenn…….what about, oh I don’t know,Bush Palin Haliburton Cheney The Koch brothers,etc,etc,etc
You are a broken record, you throw bombs and run away. When I stop responding….you will be ignored!
Soros don’t pay no societal misfit….oh wait,my bad.
tradexpertbuysell
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 9:01amWASAMATTA WHITTIE SALLY
Does the TRUTH scare you that much that you have to keep venting your ignorance.
I love you, you’re so NASTY! Thank GOD the “wise” are kept ignorant so lhat they cannot see it and be healed!
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:59pmHe’s getting Atheists and Progressives mixed up. While many Atheists are progressives, there are progressives that do believe in god. How can Atheists believe in something that doesn’t exist? To believe in god would mean a belief that you hold magic powers, belief that you are immortal, etc…This is an absolutely stupid blanket statement that only the uneducated would make. Oh wait, Beck IS uneducated.
And while we’re at it, what sort of beliefs does Mr. Beck hold as far as becoming a god as far as his Mormon beliefs are concerned?
Jaycen
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:05pm“To believe in god would mean a belief that you hold magic powers, belief that you are immortal, etc…”
Can you please explain this statement to me? Are you saying that if I believe in God, I would have to believe that I hold magic powers and I’m immortal?
I don‘t see how a belief in God requires a belief that I’m an immortal magician.
jacobstroubles
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:07pmThis in itself is conflicting. Mormons in fact do exactly what the BIBLE specifically tells people not to do. 2nd John. They have another book! Sorry..but there is only one book The Bible,,, no matter how much they would like to bleive The Book Of Mormon…it is simply not so.
They beleive they will be GODs themselves, they beleive GOD lives on a plantet callled Kolob, they beleive that they each will rule over their own plant, and ya, and let’s not forget about the mulitple wife bonus, they’ll each get, when the end days are complete.
trolltrainer
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:10pmblah, blah, blah…
Beck was wrong about one thing though, the signs of the times he was talking about are in 2 Peter, not Revelation…
Report Post »PrfctlyFrank
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:16pmAnswer this one simple question FOXHOLE.. Would you rather there were a God? Would you rather there is no God??
Just simple yes or no’s will suffice??
Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:17pmWell put foxhole. It‘s a breath of fresh air to see another poster who hasn’t succumbed to the delusion that is religion and blind faith in the supernatural.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:21pm@ PRFCTLYFRANK
I’m not foxhole, but I am an atheist. Your question is disingenuous, and says nothing about the evidence or reasons for not believing in any of the world’s fictitious gods (all). One‘s desire doesn’t speak for reality.
Report Post »PrfctlyFrank
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:22pmIt’s also shocking to me how ignorant people can be about things they willingly and publicly offer up their opinions about.. Myself, I’ve learned to trust Glenn Beck.. I believe him to be a thinker, and a finisher.. I honestly believe he seeks the truth.. I don’t believe he confines that attraction to the truth to politics..
commonsenseguy
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:23pmpeople,FOXHOLEATHEIST must be a soros or huffington post plant,please don’t feed the troll,or better yet,just ignore the communist loving moron, if he don’t believe in god and the bible,then he has to answer for his ignorance, o yeah.uneducated,man that is lame,Glenn has more commonsense than all of your left wing nut job friends,and that is why you can’t take any other views,all you can do with your education is follow your soros and the anti america left , thanks but no thanks,i love my freedom. so if you don’t like want is posted here,please leave and go back to your side of of the universe or under your rock.
Dstarr55
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:23pmFox, I cannot follow your rational: “How can Atheists believe in something that doesn’t exist?” That is their belief, that there is no God. You may not believe God doesn’t exist, but that doesn’t prove there is no God. Since you cannot prove the existence of God (or the non-existence of God) than believing or not believing is based on faith. Also, how does a belief in God equate to believing you hold ‘magic powers’ or that you are immortal? I can’t even begin to fathom your thinking in regards to this – please explain. I will also dispute Glenn being uneducated – what is that based on? Just because you don’t agree with someone hardly makes them stupid or uneducated – argue the facts as name calling adds nothing to the debate. Your last statement might be typed incorrectly. Not sure what you were trying to convey.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:23pmGod creates these people with flaws and then punishes them for it.
God is omniscient, therefore
this is a God of despotism.
cheezwhiz
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:24pmIs koran a ‘ work of fiction” ?
Report Post »I wish some sooperstar of the MFMedia takes up this subject next, since people are looking at the Bible and the end of times
BECAUSE OF THE KORAN and its followers.
PrfctlyFrank
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:28pmCATHARSIS… BS.. There is plenty of evidence supporting each and every argument regarding religion and belief in God, or not.. It is how you choose to view that evidence that forms your belief system.. But then again if you hold people of religion in contempt, then you’re an elitist puke and have no standing..
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:30pm@DSTARR55
You incorrect. Lackin belief in God is not a positive statement. People of faith – people who propound the existence of god are making a positive assertion, and thus the burden of proof falls upon the believer not the non-beleiver.
dgboy
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:32pmWhat kind of insane logic are you babbling?
At least Beck talks sense when he talks!
fightinglee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:34pmJacobsTrouble
This in itself is conflicting. Mormons in fact do exactly what the BIBLE specifically tells people not to do. 2nd John. They have another book! Sorry..but there is only one book The Bible . . .
————
Report Post »I hate to break this to you, but “the bible” was not compiled as the bible when John wrote revelations my friend. You are ignorant on the bible obviously. They didnt have a book that they passed around to each other and each added their feelings. When John wrote that, he was not holding a bible in his hands smart guy. Wow. What ignorance. And did you know that the same passage can be found in Deuteronomy as well? Well, I guess nothing after Deuteronomy is valid according to you. Or maybe, just maybe, the writer was talking about his specific writings and the fact that no one should alter his writings or add to his words. What complete ignorance. I cant believe you thought that John was writing in a compiled bible as we have today.
Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:35pm@PRFCTLYFRANK
Oh really? Make a believer out of me Frank; go ahead. What evidence is there? Cold hard visible fact that cannot be denied. I’m waiting, and please don’t offer up an explanation that is ignorant of scientific fact.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:39pmThe modern God concept defines this deity as an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent creature, but ignores the fact that there is an inherent contradiction and absurdity in this very definition. It is absurd and impossible.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:40pmSorry Jaycen, I meant to say a belief that you are a god, not a belief in a god. My mistake for trying to listen and type at the same time.
Report Post »RicohCop
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:41pmDoes it really matter what you think? Are you really that significant? I don’t think so (neither am I). In the end if you are right I lived a good life and so did Glenn Beck. If there is a God I pity those who are ready for that meeting. I believe there is a God and I believe he talks to me through other Christians, prayer and the Bible. Cool thing is I am a proud American and am glad you have a right to believe whatever you want – wish you would do so respectfully however.
fightinglee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:41pmOh, and to add to that JacobsTroubles, it is widely believed by scholars that Peters writing came after the book of revelations. Oh, but I guess you probably also had no clue that the compiled bible that you obviously dont read was not compiled in chronological order for the most part.
Report Post »fightinglee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:44pmIn what way does God punish us for having weakness Catharsis? Maybe the problem here is that you have a predetermined belief in God that not everyone shares. Perhaps your idea of God is not everyone’s idea.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:44pmAnother facet of religious logic that I don’t understand is the assertion that “if I’m wrong then I loose nothing, but if I’m right then eternal bliss… et al.” What if we were both wrong, and the existent deity is neither your god nor mine? Then we would both loose. There are thousands of gods who are and have been worshipped throughout human history, whats to say you picked the right one? As for me, I go one step further by proposing that there exists ONE LESS god then then you do.
Report Post »ottodiedacktick
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:45pm@FOXHOLEATHEIST
I‘m going to pray that Lawrence O’Donnell increases his ratings and stays on the air ’cause his rants are really funny and he looks completely unhinged. The people at NBC in general act wacky. Except for Rick Santelli. Come to think of it, he’s funny and wacky too, but at least I agree with him.
They look really desperate. I”m not even half smart (I think I use a tenth of my brain) and I can tell when someone doesn’t know how to read the Bible. Catholics are not fond of the Book of Revelations (I’m Catholic), but I disagree with my church on this one.
Go Larry! Go Larry! Keep calling people Krazy.
Report Post »Go Larry! Go Larry! Keep calling people Krazy.
WhiteTeaParty
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:54pmBeck just when I think you can’t get any stupider, you do.
The Left or Progressives don’t believe they are God, but one thing we do believe is that you are an idiot. Beck you are not a messenger nor a prophet. You are a moron, I mean Mormon.
Mormon‘s are not Christian’s.
Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a difference Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians.
Beck do us all a favor and preach to your own flock and followers in Utah. Christian‘s don’t care about what you have to say.
Report Post »bullcrapbuster
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:54pmpatriotdave said: My greatest hope is that when Larry dies, he burns in hell for eternity!
Dave you have to be kidding.(:
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:57pmHey, everybody look! It’s the magical Sky Fairy floating in space, with a secret realm made of gold and eternal bliss. This earthly life alone is not good enough, I want more!
trolltrainer
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:57pmCatharsis,
You want proof? Look in the mirror. How did you get here? You can attempt to explain that without some kind of god but you will never succeed.
Is the burden of proof on the believer? I do not think so, we know something you do not. We have a relationship with our Savior, our God is a living God. Once you believe…You know. Trying to prove God to you is like trying to prove what color your car is to a blind man. It is futile, meaningless.
I seriously hope you seek out Christ and find Him someday. It seems that the most militant atheists are also the most likely to eventually find God. I suppose because they are questioning things and eventually they all realize that God provides the only real answers.
But I am not going to waste time trying to “prove” anything to you because you simply reject the proof. If you want a place to start try the “empty tomb argument.”
pajamash
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:57pmI believe foxhole is confusing those that have faith with Charlie “The Warlock” Sheen. “Duh!”
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:00pmI hope there is no god because if there is then there is no reasoning with it due to it having a severe case of Down’s Syndrome. No questions would be answered and no reasons behind the atrocities committed in its name. Only pure frustration.
poverty.sucks
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:00pmIf your faith is in Jesus Christ and through him is to our father creator Lord our God, you need not place your faith in food insurance. He will provide.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:00pmI have no proof to offer anyone, but there’s this special virtue called blindness…. I mean faith.
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:03pm“Well put foxhole. It‘s a breath of fresh air to see another poster who hasn’t succumbed to the delusion that is religion and blind faith in the supernatural.”
Interesting coming from a poster whose persona is a word typically associated with a religious experience.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:07pmTrolltrainer, just because you don’t have a clue or understand something does not mean “god did it”. If we stopped there and were satisfied with that answer we wouldn’t have modern medicine, the internet, or the printing press which your people so gleefully use to pump out different versions of the same fairytale book that is holding back even better technological advances. We would still be sacrificing virgins and burning witches and watching plagues wipe out entire villages.
Report Post »Greyhound424
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:09pmBrainless a$$. You WILL believe when you die and are facing GOD and his wrath. You will pee yourself.
GONESURFING
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:09pmThe fool has said in his heart that there is no God.
Report Post »Catharsis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:09pm@ PAJAMASH
I consider myself sympathetic to romanticism (e.g. Shelley, Keats, Wagner), and expression of emotion and passion via the arts.
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:11pm“and thus the burden of proof falls upon the believer not the non-beleiver.”
And in catharsis’ world one is guilty until proven innocent.
Report Post »thepatriotdave
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:12pmdgboy
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:32pm
What kind of insane logic are you babbling?
At least Beck talks sense when he talks!
———————————————————-
Ding Ding Ding. You won this fight! Congrats.
Who do you want to run for POTUS in 2012?
Report Post »http://www.americasteapartynews.com/tea-blog.php#/news/
ottodiedacktick
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:14pm@CATHARSIS
Have you ever seen your brain? Then, how do you know you have one? For now, I have faith that I have a brain, but I’ve never seen it even with a microscope.
Report Post »Black3Actual
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:20pmFoxhole,
When you can explain to me how you can have something from nothing, or how the finite can understand the infinite, then you can start to explain to me how you believe there is no Creator – not until. Until you can deal with these issues satisfactorily, you are choosing not to believe. That is a different issue – and a dangerous one at that.
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:21pm“There are thousands of gods who are and have been worshipped throughout human history…”
catharsis, is there not a hint of scientific basis just in that statement? Why is it that man is continually directed to a higher being if there is no higher being. I’ll put my “faith” in the law of averages that billions of people believing have it correct over the small percentage of those with no faith being correct.
And as Jesus said to Thomas, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Report Post »Dale
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:22pm“no half-smart religious person actually believes.” He almost got it right, what he meant to say was, ‘no smart, half-religious person actually believes.”
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:24pmfoxhole,
We have talked before, I respect you. But you are misguided about several things. First of all, the reason for evil is God gave man…and angels…free will. Otherwise, what is the point? Why create something mindless that just automatically worships you? Like cheap trick sang, God wants you to want Him. Atrocities committed in His name are from man, we are plagued by sin, even Christians. Even the Pope.
As far as the god of the gaps thing, it is an atheist delusion that Christians are “ignorant” of science. Believe me, we want to find answers as bad as anyone. We just know that in the end it does boil down to God. But that does nothing to keep us from trying to explore the world around us. We just operate under a different premise than you do. I love science, and I bet I know at least as much about the theory of evolution as you do…Most likely much more. I know that nothing about the theory works and nothing is proven. It does nothing to explain origins or how we evolved from even other hominids let alone simpler creatures.
But you know what? I think most believers would just be content with a little respect. I mean, do you honestly think that with all the believers in a forum like this that we are all just blindly stupid? Do you not think that we may all have a reason for our belief? Maybe it is YOU who is missing something? Maybe not…But again, a little respect would be nice. I am not going to bash your for your disbelief, though to me you are just as blind and foolish as you think I am.
Report Post »ottodiedacktick
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:34pm@CATHARSIS
Hello Catharsis, I have faith that you’re still there. Halo, halo, ara ju theah?
Report Post »mhojai
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:44pmTo believe God doesn’t exist is still a belief … a secular religion …. which would fall equally into your category of “stupid blanket statement” — a choice of believing there is an intelligent Source (“Design” if you will — implying a “Designer”) or that “somehow, everything “magically” came together. It has been statistically established that the time given for evolution would not be suffici8net for the complex formation within the most minute cell.
Report Post »Seems YOU,FoxholeAtheist, are more a believe in magic than those who have a religious perspective.
Deal with it ….
encinom
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:44pmI see its more of the Holy Roller hour with Rev. Beck and his travel revival show. Sorry, but if I want religious paranoia and end of days fairy tales I turn the 700 Club, I don’t religious mumble-jumble with my news and politics, been there, done that and saw some witches burnt in Salem.
“Beck said, because ‘progressives believe that they are God. They will have collective salvation and they will fix everything.’” Who here see the irony of this statement, Beck is a mormon, Beck believes that he WILL BECOME A GOD and he is falsely attacking progressives for holding a similar belief. To the dwindling few that still take this nut seriously, why?
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:47pm“Believe me, we want to find answers as bad as anyone. We just know that in the end it does boil down to God. But that does nothing to keep us from trying to explore the world around us.”
It is an excellent point trolltrainer. I had a science teacher at the christian leaning high school that I attended that was a devout man. He explained to us that a belief in science does not have to exclude a belief in religion and a belief in religion does not have to exclude a belief in science. he posed the question to us one day, “Science leads us to believe that man evolved but could God not have played a part in that evolution?”.
Report Post »Kalish
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:49pmO‘Donnell will see it’s true, but by then it will be to late, to understand revelations, you have to understand Jewish apocalypticism, it does not mean it is fiction, it is just a way that they tried to describe what ever they are seeing or telling about.
Report Post »Obake
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:52pmI’ve seen a lot of anti-mormon posts here…cool. The funny thing is that those who make the posts tend to profess to “know” what Mormons believe. I’ve always found it facinating, myself being Mormon, that everyone seems to be able to decipher Mormonism and Mormon teachings. Hmmmm…..interesting.
Report Post »Kalish
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:52pmThe real work if fiction is the spin that the liberal media puts on most of their stories
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:54pmencinom – It is wholly obvious you had Glenn Beck and those of us that read and post on The Blaze. If that is the case…why do you come on here and more interestingly post on such a regular basis?
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:56pm“It is wholly obvious you had Glenn Beck…”
Sorry ment to type hate rather than had.
Report Post »colonial10
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:04pmI think a true atheist would not even flinch on any comment about God if there was no belief. I sure have seen atheist’s get real emotional trying to convince me and others that there is not a God without any substantial proof or truth. Maybe when he‘s comparing the two together he’s just talking about the ones that have one thing in common. There are progressives who do not believe in God, which would put them in the same bracket as the atheists. There are progressives who believe in God as well. I don‘t think he’s talking about these people. I believe people individually behind the scenes and away from other influences are still battling if there is a God or not. People who are more outspoken may be trying to call out to the universe to prove that God exists or not. It’s all a personal choice anyways.
Report Post »M-O-O-N Spells Moon
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:07pmFolks, please. I know the Internet let’s us all be anonymous and that usually means that people act out exactly as their emotions lead them. But the anonymity of the Internet also means that you are free to be exactly the person you aspire to be. We will be much closer to attaining our goals for saving America and our traditional way of life if we calmly discuss these topics without name-calling and derision of others’ views.
Report Post »The beauty of religion is that by choosing to believe something for which there is no experimental proof or hard evidence is that it lets you access an aspect of humanity that would otherwise be unattainable: morality. Without a belief in something greater than yourself to answer to, there is no strong guidance for morality. There is no sense of wonder. There is only the interaction of chemicals within a carbon-based animal lifeform. There is only instinct and personal survival. There is no art. There is no higher philosophy. There is only that which serves your greed. What an empty existence.
If that is true, and I admit this is only my opinion and this view is open for debate, then I CHOOSE to believe in a higher reality containing a consciousness that I choose to call God. I let the idea guide my beliefs and choices. I let those choices and beliefs inform my personal morality.
The liberals are right about a few things. The book that we see as the Bible today was written and edited in more than one church council over the history of the Christian Church. To believe that this book was inscribed directly by the hand of God is showing a lack of intellectual analysis. On the other hand, to believe that the ideas contained within the book are the signposts of a journey toward spiritual enlightenment, may actually be the beginning of higher thought. I invite you all to think about it. But please, show some respect for each other, even the progressives, and keep the peace.
I’ll go off in my corner and be quiet now.
phd1147
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:17pm@ jacobstroubles
Report Post »I am a mormon and I don’t believe I will be the god of my own plant. As a matter of fact I only have one plant in my home right now and I struggle keeping it alive. I don’t think I would make a very good plant god. And if I were the god of my own plant would I only eat meat, I sure couldn‘t be a vegan because that means I would have to kill all the plants I’m the god of. Nope I don’t want to be a plant god. And my heavenly father doesn’t live on kolob. Not sure what kind of plant that is. It’s funny but when I try to search all of these silly things people say about the mormon church they always show up on anti mormon sites. So sayeth the plant god.
calamari12
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:30pm@trolltrainer-The signs of the end times are in many other books as well. Isaiah, Jeremaiah, Daniel, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, 2nd Peter, AND Revelation. There are a slew of signs to watch and be ready for.
Also, for me, while Mr. Beck is a Mormon and the Mormon church does many things that are against the Bible, I would emphasize the fact that he has made clear that whatever you believe you are welcome to believe it in this country. What he is against, religiously speaking, is being forced to listen to people demean your beliefs while theirs are touted as “fact”
Report Post »awakeandalive2
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:33pmI would challenge anyone to show me an atheist that isn’t a progressive. I don’t think they exist (although there has got to be one or two somewhere to prove the rule) so his using them interchangeably is irrelevant. Every atheist I know is a far far far far far far far left progressive or socialist (same thing).
Report Post »phd1147
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:36pmAnd as far as that multiple wives thing goes, no thanks. Multiple wives means multiple mothers in law.
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:44pmThe very concept of liberalisn is anathema to a Godly existence. Liberals can be religious, but that also is not a Biblical existence. Progressives cannot co-exist with an alternate power structure that threatens their “self/government” superiority beliefs. Talk to enough of them and you realize that you need to wipe the dirt off your sandals and move on to the next town.
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:51pmI did forget to mention, Gods hand is extended to all. All will not accept. Those of us with understanding accept that. We know that when you are ready( and that day may never come) You will be accepted in the kingdom. But You need to want it. The kingdom has no room for religion, or partial believers. Put down your life, take up my cross and follow me. Without that you truly don’t matter.
Report Post »Chad
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:53pmhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5585125669588896670#
The SETI Institute has been searching for life for over 50 years… all they need is a simple pattern to confirm Intelligent life. An entire DNA sequence would fill 200 1,000-page New York City telephone directories. DNA is found in all living things. If you unwrap all the DNA you have in all your cells, you could reach the moon 6000 times! It would take a person typing 60 words per minute, eight hours a day, around 50 years to type the human genome. One million bases (called a megabase and abbreviated Mb) of DNA sequence data is roughly equivalent to 1 megabyte of computer data storage space.
As an Athiest, how can you seriously doubt God with these facts?
God gave man his book of instructions, people disobeyed and cursed God. He then sent his only beloved Son, Jesus, man killed him and asks why there is no God?
1 Corinthians 3:18-23
Report Post »18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”[a]; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”[b] 21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[c] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.
Luke21
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:02pm@fightinglee
You wrote:
“I hate to break this to you, but “the bible” was not compiled as the bible when John wrote revelations my friend. You are ignorant on the bible obviously…”
AND again:
“Oh, and to add to that JacobsTroubles, it is widely believed by scholars that Peters writing came after the book of revelations. Oh, but I guess you probably also had no clue that the compiled bible that you obviously dont read”
I resisted the temptation until I saw it a second time. In two posts in which you deride another’s ignorance (in your estimation), you revealed your own. It’s NOT revelations it’s the Revelation (singular) of Jesus Christ. Look it up for yourself (any bible will do), rather than listening to the “experts” you get your “facts” from on the Bible, its origin, and its historical accuracy. While I encourage you to read it cover to cover, by my estimation it shouldn’t take more than a couple of seconds for such a learned individual to read the first sentence so that when you go on the attack again at least you’ll have that fact straight.
To the rest of the naysayers & Catharsis in particular
Do you have faith in gravity (i.e. do you believe in it)? Can you see it? Of course not, nor can you see an electron. Using that as a standard, then neither exist. However there’s evidence all around that they exist. Most likely you experience them – which is all the more reason you know they exist. That is Biblical faith – while we cannot see God and live, we have all of creation to prove a God exists (you choose to ignore that evidence – akin to someone who thinks there’s no gravity, just lots of fairy dust. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness (right standing w/ God). His faith was not blind – God proved Himself beforehand. He made promises to Abraham and when Abraham stood on the promise that God made, he exercised faith
.
The Bible doesn’t need any defender’s and you can find all sorts of detractors but in the end it will prove to be just what it claims to be – the source of the truth and the Word of the Living God, and He makes no apologies to those that disagree, but in His sovereign will He grants you your will to do just that. Romans Chapter 1 was written to you, John chapter 3 also (check it out) – note the part about rejecting the light. The book of the God you say doesn’t exist speaks directly to you:
Romans 1:16-25 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. (17) For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” (18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, (19) because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (20) For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, (21) because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. (22) Professing to be wise, they became fools, (23) and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. (24) Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, (25) who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
In the end, make no mistake you will bow your knee and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10-11.
Darren
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:11pmCatharsis;
I’ve absolutely no desire to convince you of anything. That’s between you and God. I absolutely have no desire to debate anything, particularly aspects of theology. I do, however, like to share beliefs.
As for man’s imperfections they inherit, here’s what I think is a great explanation why:
“And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.”
Ether 12:27
The primary reason God gives man weakness is to be humbe and help them come unto God. As the verse states, God will thus make their weaknesses strengths. It is not to be “punished”. Man has weaknesses to overcome and become stronger in the end from those weaknesses. Same applies to imperfections. There is much to learn from our imperfections. I know I’ve learned many valuable principles in life from my own weaknesses and imperfections.
As for “evidence” of God, i find the following three scriptural verses helpful:
“And when they shall have received this, which is expedient that they should have first, to try their faith, and if it shall so be that they shall believe these things then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them.”
3 Nephi 26:9
“And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the etrial of your faith.”
Ether 12:6
“And there were many whose faith was so exceedingly strong, even before Christ came, who could not be kept from within the veil, but truly saw with their eyes the things which they had beheld with an eye of faith, and they were glad.”
Ether 12:19
I find this process of learning about God and knowing He is true universally applicable. One starts with faith. The individual places his or her faith in something and follows it. Through faithfulness and progression more knowledge is given. There will comwe a point in time where that individual will know for him or herself that God exists. I have found that it does not matter what aspect of learning this entails, the process is the same. That the individual always starts on faith. Without that starting point, pure knowledge is impossible to acquire.
I have found that digligent scripture study, prayer, fasting, and, perhaps most importantly, living by good works to others, is the pathway to God and to know of God.
Take care and God bless.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:11pmJacobstroubles;
LOL, tell me, sir, how many books are there in the Bible?
Report Post »Polk County Patriot
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:15pmWhy don’t all of you atheist find you a Muslim page to spew your garbage on, and let us know how that turns out for you. Those folks aren’t peace loving and they love to slice and dice. I believe all of the big talk will just fade away.
Report Post »Deanna in Missouri
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:22pmWhat will you say when you face GOD?
Report Post »ColdHeartedCapitalist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:26pm@Moon
Refreshing to read an intelligent and level headed response to this string. My only suggestion would be that you read 2 Timothy chapter 3, specifically verse 16 & 17. The only point I’m going to disagree with you on is “To believe that this book was inscribed directly by the hand of God is showing a lack of intellectual analysis”. Different translations use different words to say the same thing. As for me, I have faith enough to believe what God himself said through this passage.
As for those professing to be atheists, the only one who can convince you that God does exist is yourself. You clearly have and are exercising your free will to not believe, that’s your right, and I’m not going to tell you otherwise. A debate on a message forum like this is certainly unlikely to convince you of God‘s existence any more so than your views are likely to convince a believer that God doesn’t exist. I would encourage you to read a book or two on the historical evidence that exists suggesting that God is real (several good ones on amazon.com). If you can examine that evidence and remain unconvinced, so be it, but at least you make an informed decision. Please think twice before deciding that your disbelief renders those of us who do believe as unintellectual, unreasonable, or anything but people who have faith. After all, we can’t see the wind or gravity but I think pretty much everyone accepts that they exist. You can see leaves being moved by the wind, or a stone falling to the ground when dropped. Likewise one might choose to believe that God has helped to form the circumstances and events of our lives, such as a successfully getting a job offer, or meeting someone who later becomes your spouse. Is that really all that silly?
Report Post »dealer@678
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:26pmToo bad we cant ask Madelyn Murray Ohair what she believes now
Report Post »Allan
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:28pmThere are many scientific studies which show that religious people are happier, more productive, less stressed and live longer than people who are not religious. Seems to me there must be something right about that. I’m pretty sure they classified all you evangelical athiests as non-religious! So….if you are more interested relying on your own “monumental intelect” than living a happier longer, more productive life, keep on truckin’ and good luck to ya. ( As Glen so often says “Go and do a little research on your own”).
Report Post »S G Applebee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:35pmThe Book of Revelation? It’s hard to believe that anybody would believe God could be so cruel and Evil.
Report Post »Ken from Louisiana
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:36pmFox, here are the problems that I have. Genocide, mass murder, destruction of the planet, children getting cancer, children and women being raped or abused, the mass slaughter of whales and dolphins by some countries ever year. I could go on and on, but it upsets me. Sure I can look around me at some amazing stuff. Animals are a real miracle. so are people, but so many of them really suck. god would not allow that.
Report Post »Lucy Larue
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:41pmFOXHOLEATHEIST,
Your post is not good. It is not.
HOLE, do you know what infinity means? HOLE, do you understand that scientists can explain how a humble blade of grass grows….,but cannot explain where the seed came from?
I think you should do far more research before you take the stance that you have. It makes no sense.
“Never utter these words:I do not know this,therefore itis false. One must study to know;know to understand; understand to judge.”
Apothegm of Narada
“Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world.;all knowledge of our current reality starts from experience and end in it.Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely EMPTY of reality. Then we must enter the world od Metaphysics.”
Albert Einstein
Do not be so smug HOLE. Please get your learn on.
Report Post »dealer@678
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:45pmDoes anyone notice that when the name of God is spoken on this website every demon on earth attacks. Keep doing what your doing Beck. This is a good sign
Report Post »SheriS
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:48pmYour statements are sadly, the most out of touch statements and what Glenn’s religion is would be frankly none of your business. Perhaps if you knew about one tenth of what Glenn knows about the Bible, you might be able to comment with some knowledge! Other wise your remark was stupid!
Report Post »Thats A rap
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:03pmWe are now entering a re-founding revolution. Our choice of weapon is the freedom of us speakin. We choose to fight in the arena OF THOUGHT and our founders had superior. But now in OUR house they all snub the constitution. Did they swear to us to GOD or some sort of alien. If to GOD what a shame but one day they‘ll meet with him and if to us then there LIARS and it’s time for us to replace all them. OUR CONSTITUTION our BILL OF RIGHTS and no interpretation that‘s how we’ll finish this re-founding revolution. So now it’s time for the 28th amendment “No authority can tax a SOVERIGN STATE CITIZEN” It’s also time for OUR state representatives to come back home and start representing them. After that we’ll be headed towards a different place, a place OUR founders intended for the human race. So much HOPE so much CHANGE and new innovation. WE pray to GOD for this re-founding revolution. Hey U.N. we’re sorry for all the confusion, but those treaties that we signed are against OUR CONSTITUION. So what were saying is that it’s time for us to hit the road and that building in New York will be sub-divided into condos… So much HOPE so much CHANGE and new innovation WE pray to GOD for this re-founding REVOLUTION. Rise Up People!!!!!!
Report Post »americansfightingforcommonsense
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:14pm@Jacobstroubles
Report Post »The Bible is NOT a book, persay. It is many books gathered togther and puit into one location (The Bible) “Do not add or take away from this Book…” Is not talking about the ‘BIBLE”!!!!
NSDQ
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:36pmTo sit here on one of twelve rocks along with a giant ball of fire floating through the galaxy which is suspended in the middle of eternity and our lives mere fractions of a sec compared to the age of the universe and you can make the most arrogant of claims that you KNOW the inner workings of the universe and can say to all there is no possibility that creation has a creator.
Report Post »ellisrobert
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:46pm“Mormons in fact do exactly what the BIBLE specifically tells people not to do. 2nd John. They have another book! Sorry..but there is only one book The Bible,,,” Is God the same yesterday today and forever…has he not always called prophets and given revelation to the children of men? The answer is yes and he still does today. Let me ask you how did the Bible come to be? Did it suddenly appear in paper back form? No. Did Jesus put it together when he was on the Earth? No. It was put together by men long after the death of Christ. Each “book” in the bible is in reality a separate and distinct work of literature written by each prophet at different times and compiled by men devoid of revelation. Mose in Deut. said add no more to this book are we to disregard the New Testament and all the prophets post-Moses????
Report Post »brliantedj
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:46pmHey FOX, just wonderingwhat you call those “ATHIESTS” that dont belong to a regious group and still believe in GOD!!! You’re actually leaving out a large portion of the population.
Report Post »GIDEON612
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:09pmIt is not worth the time to argue with this person, Jaycen. The name says it all to begin with. You know that this person has cried out to God before, everyone has. I am no magician but have prayed and laid hands upon people in faith and seen God heal them. No one will ever tell me contrary. The problem with these people are that they are so insecure in themselves and their beliefs that they have to tell all that they know, or will listen, because the inner voice is telling them, “here I AM”.
Report Post »The sad part is that these deceived people often reach more than a Christian will because of their insecurity. The need to convince others, when they are constantly unsure of their deluded beliefs, becomes an obsession and a need. Meanwhile all too many Christians are afraid to be criticized by these that are animated by satan that they bury their talent in the ground.
snidley-whiplash
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:29pmyou misspelled the A word it’s the lowest of lower case………… atheists……..
Report Post »Thatsitivehadenough
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:34pmIt’s so easy to get atheists and progressives mixed up. You can’t be a progressive (who are socialists/communists) and believe in God. It’s illegal to believe in God under communism (keeping in mind that socialism/communism are more or less the same, just a matter of degree) and it is treated like a sickness. And progressives fall into a few categories: communists, dupes, useful idiots, fellow travelers, to name a few. If ‘progressives’ don’t understand this, then it proves my point that they are one of the others. And, btw, socialism is just the bridge from capitalism to communism. You really should read more books.
Report Post »truthbased
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:37pmGod is not magic God understands how the universe works. Look at it this way if you went back in time and were to show people what we know now they might think your magic it wouldn‘t make it so or mean they are crazy or stupid but just that they don’t know what we do.
Report Post »jackrorabbit
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:44pmSo then, you must come from a monkey. Congrats on that! You have proven that you might be the missing link. You may be an atheist now, but you better hope that you are right, because it will be very hot in hell for a long, long time if you are wrong.
Report Post »WISEPENNY
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:51pmAnd while we’re at it, what sort of beliefs does Mr. Beck hold as far as becoming a god as far as his Mormon beliefs are concerned?
———————————————————
I don’t know what Beck believes, incisively, but here is something that tells me he basically ignores a truth that’s out there that REALLY needs to be brought into the light of day. Since “truth has no agenda”, and I fully agree, this will interest Mormons and Christians very much. After all, we’re practically twin sisters, aren’t we? Correct me if I‘m wrong and don’t take my word for it. Verify it for yourselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1mFdO1wB08
Report Post »jblaze
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:06amLuke21
Report Post »Amen Brother! You must be a Philadelphian! Peace be with you!
Beej13
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:11amWithout pointing fingers at any particular members, I find it remarkable how people can so often profess to stand for certain principles or beliefs — all of which are noble and admirable — and then completely disregard those tenets in order to berate and insult those who do not share their beliefs.
Atheism and conservatism are not mutually-exclusive or competing concepts. I’m a conservative because I want to preserve the principles — honor, integrity, character, honesty, independence, self-reliance, respect — and the freedoms that have traditionally afforded people the opportunity to live a decent life, enjoy the fruits of their labor and take an active role in maintaining the best that life and society have to offer for future generations.
None of these things require an intrusive federal government picking winners and losers or the redistribution of wealth from people who achieve to people who merely exist.
As humans, we have a limited time (70-80 years on average) to get all that done before our turn is up and the cycle of life continues on without us. Humans are not the original inhabitants of this planet and one day — for any number of reasons — we will cease to exist altogether, replaced by some other life form. It’s a cycle that undoubtedly repeats all over the Universe. Only, we don’t have the ability to observe or understand all these things in our lifetimes. That’s why we record our discoveries for future generations…to pick up the ball and take it as far as they can until it’s their time to hand it over.
Understandably, it‘s a lot to wrap one’s head around. For many, the brevity and finality of life is just too depressing to even consider. For others, it goes against the all-too-familiar narcissistic concept that mankind is the center of the Universe and everything was created for man’s domination and utilization. If earthquakes and tsunamis don’t make you rethink that falsehood, I don’t know what will.
Nonetheless, people from all different faiths have subscribed to a belief in one deity or another for eons. Their reasons differ, but it’s safe to say that faith has played a large role in the lives of billions and billions of people since the beginning of humanity. That’s fine. I get it. I understand why people turn to a god or gods for solace or simply to make sense of the world around them and I don’t begrudge or belittle them for their beliefs.
All major religions incorporate generally accepted truths and principles…like The Golden Rule, for example. The extent to which people bicker over the particulars that differentiate one faith from another seems a bit absurd to a non-believer like myself, but whatever. As a baptized Presbyterian, I remember enough from Bible School to say that, generally speaking, the basic tenets of Christianity are a fantastic blueprint for life. The same could be said for practically any organized religion.
The problem isn’t the words or the concepts of morality and decency…it’s the individuals who misconstrue and take the wrong messages away from the sermons. It’s the people who fail to “practice what they preach” who cause the most division and hostility.
I‘m an atheist because I don’t believe in the existence of a higher being. That does not make me — or those who share my view — a “communist loving moron” or a “leftist” or a “troll.” It makes us rational, sane, educated, thinking adults who have given the issue CONSIDERABLE thought and have come to a different conclusion than most. It’s not a decision we take lightly. It is one we make with absolute certainty, however.
As in this comment section, my life experiences have shown that the most judgmental, disrespectful, intolerant and vitriolic individuals tend not to be atheists, but the self-described “good Christians” who don’t appreciate the fact that many in America have chosen a different path. There’s more to being a good Christian or Muslim or Jew or person of any faith than simply showing up for services. It’s about understanding and internalizing the positive, constructive messages and then applying them to your daily lives.
It’s NOT about condemning others who hold different views with threats of “[burning] in hell“ or ”facing GOD and his wrath” upon their demise. Clearly, some of you need to listen a little closer this Sunday.
Report Post »jmanuola
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:37amHow truly sad that the extent of your intelligence goes no further than what you poor mind can somehow conceive. By your very statements you would have sided with the geocentrists and flat-earthers of several hundred years ago. They, too, could not conceive of an universe not centered around the earth, nor could then conceive of a global earth. You must feel terribly despaired by the “fact” that your world is essentially over…there is no more for you to discover beyond what you can see, hear, taste, touch and smell. Your poor family, if you even have one. They must be terribly lonely since you cannot even reach beyond what you can “prove”…so are truly incapable of loving them or experiencing their love for you. Oh wait, maybe you can experience love, since it does include some sort of chemical reaction…..whoohoo..those chemicals are flying now…yeehaw. I can just see it…kneeling on one knee in front of the woman who stirs those chemicals most….ring in hand…more chemicals rushing through your body (we call it nervousness…but since you can only ‘prove’ it by the chemical mixtures inside you…we’ll avoid those terribly archaic terms)…looking up into her eyes…seeing deep, wonderful chemical reaction in them…You speak, “My dear, I have such astounding amount of chemical reaction in my brain when I’m around you…will you mix your chemicals with mine and perhaps we’ll be able to bond in intellectual ineptitude together. Will you exchange words with me in front of another human being and share rings too?
Report Post »davidg
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:40amTO: jacobstroubles
RE: All that Mormon bashing non-sense
I don’t want to aruge religion with you Jake. I really like Glenn’s take on scripture and his sincere, straightforward explanation. But you went off on Mormons and I just wanted to maybe counter some of what you said. In a kind way. I hope.
First you said that Mormons believe in more scripture than the bible, specificially the Book of Mormon. You’re right. But then you say they’re somehow evil for claiming that the cannon of scripture is not closed, but open. Meaning, that God can‘t speak to prophets or apostles anymore and they can’t write down those revelations, and those revelations can’t be accepted by people as the word of god. That’s pretty much the process the bible went through. Then you tell everyone that at the end of the Book of Revelations John tells people not to add or take away from his words or God will take away from them. Here’s the actual reference from King James version of the bible:
Revelations 22:18-19
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall aadd unto these things, God shall add unto him the bplagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the abook of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
If you look at it fairly you would have to say that John is talking about his prophecy, not the entire bible. If you also take into account the fact that when John recieved revelations on the Isle of Patmos the Bible had not been assembled in any form, that adds more strength to the idea that maybe John was just talking about his prophecies of the last days, and not the entire bible. Then if you add to that, the fact that John actually wrote his prophecies years before over half of the books of the New Testament were written, that brings into question half of the New Testament, unless, of course, you adhere to the fact that John was likely talking about his book a not other books writte by other prophets and aposltes. Add to that line of thinking that when the Bible was organized into an Old and New Testament and all the different books were collected and placed in some sort of order, the didn’t do it chronologically. In fact if you go to the front of most bibles you notice in the index pages that the books were organized according to four topics history, prophetic revelation, poetry (like psalms) and I can’t remember the last topic. I’ll have to go look it up. I’m just writing this on the fly.
Add to this the idea that the book of Deuteronomy, Acts, Isaiah and Micha all contain similar warnings not to take any words or add any words to the text, and you have a pretty good argument for saying GOD MUST STILL HAVE THE ABILITY to call prophets and apostles, and have them write down revelations into books. That’s all Mormons are saying about The Book of Mormon. That the cannon of scripture is not closed. That God still speaks to men and women through prophets and apostles. And that the Book of Mormon, though and ancient record of people living in America between 600 BC and 400 AD took place during and after the events recorded in the Bible, is another testament of Jesus Christ. If you get nothing else from the Book of Mormon record, it should be a strong statement that GOD is NOT DEAD. That he speaks to prophets. Its certainly worth a read. And certainly isn‘t a wise thing to throw out all sorts of weird aspersions against something that claims to testify of Jesus Christ’s mission, his atonement, His crucifixions, and his ressurection.
I‘m just sayin’
Report Post »Beej13
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 2:02amM-O-O-N Spells Moon…
While I genuinely appreciate your viewpoint — and the tone in which it was delivered — you offered an opinion which rings a little hollow to me.
You stated:
“The beauty of religion is that by choosing to believe something for which there is no experimental proof or hard evidence is that it lets you access an aspect of humanity that would otherwise be unattainable: morality.”
Morality can come from any number of sources. Adherence to a particular faith or religious doctrine is not necessary to form a value system or personal code of conduct that adheres to social norms. Our interpretations of right/wrong and good/bad are largely cultural and familial in nature.
Now, if you come from a family or home where religion and faith were prominent, that may very well be your basis for morality. But, as we know, bad kids also come from good Christian homes. There’s more to being a good person and a productive member of society than simply sitting in a pew on Sunday morning.
As an atheist, I conduct myself in a manner that, hopefully, inspires others to be introspective. I take pride in my integrity, honor, honesty and self-reliance. People know they can trust me…and that’s important to me. They know that I hold myself to a higher standard. They know that I keep my promises and they know that I won’t cheat them.
That’s because my value system as an adult is based on the way I want others to act toward me. My hope is that if I lead by example, the people I interact with will take something away from that and employ those values in their own lives.
Whether you’re a person of faith or not, honor, honesty and integrity are just a necessary way of life if you expect people to trust and respect you. Your word has to mean something.
You continued:
“Without a belief in something greater than yourself to answer to, there is no strong guidance for morality. There is no sense of wonder. There is only the interaction of chemicals within a carbon-based animal lifeform. There is only instinct and personal survival. There is no art. There is no higher philosophy. There is only that which serves your greed. What an empty existence.”
Again, I disagree. As an artist, musician, amateur astronomer, genealogist, computer geek and business owner who obsesses over politics, law, history, design, sports, foreign cultures and languages, I find that my “deep-thinking” and sense of wonder FAR surpass those of the general population.
There isn’t enough time in the day for all the things I enjoy and not enough days in my lifetime for everything I want to learn.
Your assertion is that those of us who have made a conscious decision to be “godless” must live a self-absorbed, hollow, primitive existence. I assure you, that couldn’t be farther from the truth. It is our healthy sense of curiosity and wonderment that led us to question the existence of God in the first place…when so many others merely accepted what they were told to believe at an early age.
You wrapped it up with:
“If that is true, and I admit this is only my opinion and this view is open for debate, then I CHOOSE to believe in a higher reality containing a consciousness that I choose to call God.”
And that‘s what it’s all about…the freedom to choose. You choose to believe and I respect your choice. I choose not to believe and only ask the same in return.
Good day, sir.
Report Post »CTHULHUWILLEATYOUFIRST
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 2:17amBla, bla, bla. Beck is a Mormon, right? That makes him a cultist.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 3:39amWisePenny;
Save you breathe. All in that video is nothing but rehashed anti-Mormon arguments presented in a newer fashion.
Here’s some typical arguments:
Language: The lack of linguistic connection to the Book of Mormon is compatible with the story of the Book of mormon itself.
Archeology: There is a growing amount of geological evidence verifying the story of the Book of Mormon.
DNA: There is some compatibility. For those who hold to this argument to “disprove” the Book of Mormon, to this date I do not know what an ancient Jew DNA looks like. Do you?
1) The language argument self-implodes upon itself.
Report Post »2) Frankly, the presenters in that video are either liars or grossly misled in their own research. There have been large amounts of archeological evidences since its first publication. Despite the archeological evidences of the Book of Mormon, truth is I do not believe any more in the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon because of these evidences; nor would I believe any less in the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon with the lack of archeological evidences. That’s done by the Holy Spirit. You also understand that geology and archeology have been used against the Bible as well? To that I respond the same. I do not believe any more in the Bible’s truth with these scientific evidences; nor would I believe any less in the truthfulness of the Bible without them.
3) Are we so perfected in our understanding and application of DNA that we can now use it to decide who truly follows and worships Jesus? That’s silly to say on its face, no? Yet that’s pretty much what the anti-Mormon DNA appologist argue. Building on what I previously mentioned about the lack of identification of an ancient Jewish DNA, you do realize that Lehi, the Nephite civilization’s patriarch, was NOT Jewish? The DNA(ers) don’t seem to embrace that fact.
ccarrngt
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 3:59amChoosing to be an Atheist is certainly your right and I, nor anyone else, should deny you that and I hope before your death you recognize the hope around you. But it would behoove you to be better trained against your opposition albeit Christ or Beck or whoever. Believing in God and the Grace of Christ has nothing to do with magic. Believing does not grant anything accept an enormous accountability of character to believe in others as Christ’s Grace believes in you. If what you said was true, then I would be a magician and an immortal. I assure you I am neither. I am like you. I get confused, I feel pain, I can bleed and I promise I will be dead one day. Eternal Glory is another conversation and even if Heaven is an eternity, it doesn’t make you immortal; you have to die here to go there. Christ proved that.
And just as well, if you do not believe in Christ or God, it is at the very least a fact that Christ lived at some point in time on this Earth. And, it is fairly obvious that people believe in him and follow him. Yet, they are not magicians or immortals. When you say Christians, you are identifying Christ’s followers, that’s it. Whether he was just a man or God Himself, followers of either conviction are not magically endowed or immortal.
I would like to leave you with this thought though. In order for any one of us to declare (and understand our declaration) that something does not exist, we have to concede that the opposite is also true. How else would we be able to identify the antithesis? Research and enjoy the wonders of the world my friend with no burden to believe and at that point that you are in awe over something spectacular, ask yourself if it would require more faith to deny than to believe.
Report Post »Searreigh
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 4:12amThis age old argument is futile. The end all be all cannot be described. God is the only plausible explanation for infinity.
Report Post »No1YaKnow
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 4:28amFoxhole—feel free to post your massive credentials. We‘d like to see them as you have decided anyone who doesn’t fall in line with your thinking is “uneducated”. It speaks volumes you feel the need to say that. So, please, enlighten us with your credentials. Also, an atheist isn’t always a progressive, but almost ALWAYS a progressive IS an atheist. God is the government–or more importantly–they are god. It might interest you to know that most of us will still lead happier lives than you can ever dream of. Cynical is not skeptical–cynical is just a good way to alienate yourself and hasten the heart attack. Enjoy.
Report Post »BobParker2003
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 6:29amYou know I am amazed that you don’t see the connection between “progressives” and old fashion Communists. They are all the same. Communists don’t believe in God because it hurts their goal of having followers look to the state to solve their problems. How can you not remember that? Glen is correct! MSNBC is and has always been anti-God because they aren’t anything more than old fashion Communists! To quote a very intelligent woman you progressives all hate; “…You can’t put lipstick on a pig…“ Go read the classic ”1984“ and ”Animal Farm” and read a little history.
Report Post »DemonHunterGT
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 8:15amAgreed Jaycen, An as far as the Mormons belife. They belive that we’re here on earth to become like god. But you may never understand, what it means to develop christlike atributes.
Report Post »SeasonOfReason
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 8:29amI’m not sure if it has been said yet but I would like to clarify one thing. Being an atheist does not mean you claim there is no God. It only means you reject the claim that there is a God because of insufficient evidence. Gnosticism/agnosticism is a claim on what we can know. A gnostic theist believes in a God and knows it while an agnostic theist believes there is a God but does not make that claim of certainty. One can also be a gnostic atheist or an agnostic atheist.
Report Post »tradexpertbuysell
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 8:42amHark!
One of Satin’s turds weighs in against GOD and Glenn! Priceless.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 8:44amShame on O’Donnell for not treating religion for what it is: a personal thing between a man or woman and his/her creator (just as George Washington said) that should not be discussed in connection with politics. He‘s playing Beck’s game here, and its a mistake.
Report Post »mattymcd
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 8:48amI love people who claim not to believe in something and who spend a ton of time trying to prove they don’t believe it…I don’t know who Foxhole is trying to convince…us…or himself.
Report Post »Ken from Louisiana
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 8:55amM-o-o-n, well stated. I think though, that your rhetoric would be better used on sites where people are a bit more open minded. I do not believe that there is some omnipresent god. I plant numerous trees and bushes to help the environment,. I have bushes to help with the bee population. I have shelter for wildlife. I’ve raised orphaned baby opossums. I’ve given (free) money to employees so that they could see the doctor. I give money to charity, including a Christian charity for battered women. I have cried over the senseless slaughter of humans and animals. My children have grown up to be the same. I consider myself to be a caring person not devoid of anything in my life simply because I don’t believe in god. And I think that I have less hatred in my heart than most of these “religious ” people. Maybe, though, I’m going to hell. so be it.
Report Post »smitdawg
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 9:32amOh look every one.Wize words from the pompous, elitist, all knowing world of academia, who’s dictatorial message to the mindless commoner must always be punctuated with a poignant exsposure to the lesser educational status of ones opinionated adversary.But let us remember, that without the added personal attacks, these wise liberal articulations could NOT be taken seriously.This is the only way that the astute liberal memorandum can be properly received,Until the big bad bully on the playground grabs the A-HOLE and pounds the snot out of him. P.S. Albert Einstien never graduated high school smart ass.
Report Post »Thats A rap
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 9:58amWe are now entering a re-founding revolution. Our choice of weapon is the freedom of us speakin. We choose to fight in the arena OF THOUGHT and our founders had superior. But now in OUR house they all snub the constitution. Did they swear to us to GOD or some sort of alien. If to GOD what a shame but one day they‘ll meet with him and if to us then there LIARS and it’s time for us to replace all them. OUR CONSTITUTION our BILL OF RIGHTS and no interpretation that‘s how we’ll finish this re-founding revolution. So now it’s time for the 28th amendment “No authority can tax a SOVERIGN STATE CITIZEN” It’s also time for OUR state representatives to come back home and start representing them. After that we’ll be headed towards a different place, a place OUR founders intended for the human race. So much HOPE so much CHANGE and new innovation. WE pray to GOD for this re-founding revolution. Hey U.N. we’re sorry for all the confusion, but those treaties that we signed are against OUR CONSTITUION. So what were saying is that it’s time for us to hit the road and that building in New York will be sub-divided into condos… So much HOPE so much CHANGE and new innovation WE pray to GOD for this re-founding REVOLUTION. Rise Up People!!!!!!
http://www.wethepeopleunited.us
Report Post »NickyLouse
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 10:01amAtheists are really agnostics who do not want to admit that they are unsure that they don’t think they can know the truth. It is illogical to claim that ANY THING does not exist. Follow this:
Blue and pink bunnies that poop orange turds do not exist.
How do you know?
Have you ever seen one or seen any evidence of one.
No.
There you go.
In theory, blue and pink bunnies that poop orange turds could exist. If someone said that they saw one or saw orange bunny turds near tufts of blue and pink fur, you have the option of disbelieving them, but you cannot refute them. God is spirit and cannot be seen unless He chooses to reveal Himself. However, there is evidence of His existence that includes creation, prophecies that have been reported to have been fulfilled and probably most incriminating are millions of changed lives of people who were once just like you who have begun living for the glory of Jesus.
One last thing, if you want to go into the Twilight Zone and say that reality does not exist, then I don’t think we have anything left to discuss since you are not here and neither am I.
Report Post »S G Applebee
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 10:11amhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urlTBBKTO68
Report Post »heavyduty
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 10:22amI have seen many foxhole atheists crying out for God or some higher power when they are under fire. You sir have neither been in foxhole or under fire to make a statement like that. There is a higher power whether or not you choose to believe in it or not. Progressives think that they are gods, and that is what makes them stupid. To believe all this just happened by chance makes no sense whatsoever.
Report Post »chris.g
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 11:26amSince atheists can’t prove that God does not exist, that there is no soul, that there is no afterlife, they too require blind faith to adhere to their belief system. Funny thing about atheists and secularists…. as much as they abhor any and all religions, especially Christianity, they wrap themselves in their dogma and proselytize it as if it were- of all things, a religion.
Report Post »S G Applebee
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:18pmCHRIS G: “Since atheists can’t prove that God does not exist, that there is no soul, that there is no afterlife, they too require blind faith to adhere to their belief system…”
Report Post »Belivers just can’t seem to get through their thick skulls that a LACK OF BELIEF is NOT a belief; the LACK OF FAITH is NOT faith; or that the person DENYING a cliam made by another DOES NOT have to PROVE anything.
Does a non believer have to prove unicorns, Santa Claus, or Leprechauns do not exist?
WHITE LOTUS2x
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:58pmMonkeyholeathiest: The remark, a statement only an un educated person would make, is asinine. God is not magic. God is spiritual and as real as you and I. Someday if ,lucky, you will know. Seems you have riled a few people with your post and I would bet they are better educated than you. While it is your right to be insulting and degrading to those that believe, my guess is that you monkeyhole are a radical progressive liberal and a real asinine through and through. White Lotus.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 2:42pmFoxholeathiest (like most athiests I’ve heard) shows his ignorance of the Bible and his pechant for trying to upset his followers with blastphemy. He says “I hope there is no god because if there is then there is no reasoning with it due to it having a severe case of Down’s (sic) Syndrome.”
Foxholeathiest obviously knows so little about Abram (Abraham), Job, David and Daniel, and their relationship with God. I’d suggest he go read the book before he pretends to know what it says.
Report Post »venerablebede
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 3:10pmYeah we all know about the progressives your talking about, they worship the Golden Calf.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 3:18pmBEEJ says”There’s more to being a good Christian or Muslim or Jew or person of any faith than simply showing up for services. It’s about understanding and internalizing the positive, constructive messages and then applying them to your daily lives.”
And this is one reason he/she is an athiest – totally missing the point. A lot of people think Christianity is worthwhile for the “good lessons” it teaches (it is this, but so much more). They miss the forest for the trees (as BEEJ has just equivocated). Jesus did not come to this earth to teach us to become “good” people, or “better” people. Isaiah said it this way “your good works are like filthy rags before the Lord.”
Go figure. If Jesus didn’t come to show us how to act “better,” then why did he come? I suppose his own words, recorded for history, should suffice (read John 3:17).
Trying to be better is not the point, but is the result. Read 1Kings 22:5 and Matthew 6:33. Being “good’ is not the point, seeking God is. If you seek him with your whole heart (deuteronomy 4:29, 1 Chronicles 28:9, Galations 2:15), you will find him. Then all these things will be added to you.
I used to get disturbed when people would quote the Bible to me. Now that I know where to look, I’d prefer to give you the verses. That way you can read them in the silence of your own abode, and ponder them, and know for yourself.
But, know this Fox and BEEJ, you miss the point if you think Christianity is all about becoming a better person. Perhaps this is why Fox is so distainful of Christians – because of his ignorance of the Bible, he simply has the wrong idea.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 3:25pmPubliusPencilman’s statement about Christianity being private, runs directly counter to Jesus’ own words in Matthew 28:19-20. I think I’ll follow Jesus on this one too.
Report Post »dswynne1
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 4:28pmThe problem with your argument is that both atheists and progressives are secular-oriented, which means more power to the state. Beck has been targeted by both groups not because of his religious stance, but for pointing out this out, and that both tend to be for positive liberties (i.e. what the state can and should do for and to you). That’s the situation.
Report Post »Joseph
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 6:27pmThose have ears let them hear
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 9:27pmIf you believe there is no god then you believe your rights come from the government and the government can take them away. If your right then we are all screwed.
Report Post »Beej13
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 10:52pmSparky101…
Thank you for replying. I find it interesting that you chose to focus on one sentence in an 11-paragraph post…one in which I pointed out the hypocrisy, vitriol and wrong-headedness of individuals who engage in personal attacks to discredit others for believing differently.
Why not point out the paragraph where I stated:
“As a baptized Presbyterian, I remember enough from Bible School to say that, generally speaking, the basic tenets of Christianity are a fantastic blueprint for life. The same could be said for practically any organized religion.”
Regardless, you took issue with the notion that people of faith should take something constructive away from sermons and apply those concepts to their daily lives. Really? If that’s your assertion, then why does your pastor even bother writing a sermon? Why have services at all? If the point of the sermon isn’t to engage in discourse and examine moral and ethical lessons exemplified in Bible passages, what is?
This one really got my attention:
“But, know this Fox and BEEJ, you miss the point if you think Christianity is all about becoming a better person.”
Based on the majority of posts in this discussion, I’d concur. In fact, taking steps to become a “better person” doesn’t appear to be priority at all for many.
If your contention is that the primary aim of Christianity is to encourage followers to “seek God” with the expectation of a great reward (primarily in Heaven), does it matter how you treat your fellow man here on Earth? In other words, is it perfectly fine to demean and denigrate others while “seeking God”…or is that generally frowned upon in Christianity?
I ask because here are some examples of the terms used by self-described Christians in this discussion to address atheists like myself:
“ignorant”
“soros or huffington post plant”
“troll”
“communist loving moron”
“uneducated”
“left wing nut job”
“anti america left”
“brainless a$$”
“blind and foolish”
“demon”
“deceived people”
That’s just from the first-half of Page 1.
Later on, we find out that we’re also “Satan’s tools,“ living an ”empty existence”…and, apparently (according to half a dozen people), we’ll be “burning in hell” before too long.
Is THAT what Christianity teaches you? I don’t think so…at least, not from what I remember. Rather, I think there are a lot of very poor examples of humanity who hide behind their faith in order to attack others who disagree with them…sort of like how pedophiles, misogynists, sadists and homosexuals have hidden behind the cloth of the Catholic Church for centuries.
I’ll just re-iterate my opening sentence from my first post:
“Without pointing fingers at any particular members, I find it remarkable how people can so often profess to stand for certain principles or beliefs — all of which are noble and admirable — and then completely disregard those tenets in order to berate and insult those who do not share their beliefs.”
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 11:26pmCatharsis, are you stating that there positively is no God? And you know this how?
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 11:47pmphd1147, your response to jacobstroubles was fantastic: “I am a mormon and I don’t believe I will be the god of my own plant. As a matter of fact I only have one plant in my home right now and I struggle keeping it alive. I don’t think I would make a very good plant god.” Thanks for the chuckle. I bet he and a lot of others are scratching their heads over this.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 12:10amBeej13, thank you for replying. I think you just supported the phrase “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.”
You obviously did not read the verses I gave you, so you continue to miss the point. I suppose that is just your way, you know what you know and are loath to begin to understand that you don’t understand. It’s safer your way. Stay ignorant.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 12:31amBeej13, since you took the time to bring it up, know that I spent a lot of time yesterday, calling attention to the rants of an athiest who all by himself called believers:
foolish
mentally lazy
stupid
ignorant
silly
Batman worshippers
naive
dumb
arrogant
fools
too stupid
morons
rediculous beliefs
hypocrites
decitful
jerks
mushy minded
ignoramuses
half-wits
crazy
insecure
pathetic
not very smart
idiots
parasites
know nothings
incapable of rational thought
lazy and confused
This was just from a half page, so since my list is much longer than your list, does this mean that athiests are meaner than Christians? Apparently, if I use your faulted logic.
When you say you attended Bible School, do you mean like a Bible College, or something like confirmation or perhaps Sunday School?
In response to one of your questions, about the values of a Pastor, I can say that a Pastor is a qualified teacher who explains who God is and what he has done. A Pastor has us open the word and teaches us how to read the Bible more effectively. But, there comes a time when a Christian should grow up and start feeding himself. Once the Pastor has shown the way, we need to grow up as Christians. Worshipping together is a priviledge. The sermons should cause us to think, and to go read our Bibles to learn more about God. If a sermon was simply to tell me how to conduct myself, and to be kind to others, then I’d change churches rapidly. After all, when Jesus came, he explained that knowing the truth would set you free, not keep you in chains. The Law is instructive, but I’m not under the law. I am free in Christ.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 1:17amAnd beej, you say “It is our healthy sense of curiosity and wonderment that led us to question the existence of God in the first place…when so many others merely accepted what they were told to believe at an early age.”
If this is how you believe people become Christians, then I can understand your confusion. Like you really believe that Christians don’t similarly have “ a healthy sense of curiosity and wonderment”? I sensed a bias that may help explain something under the surface, something untrue and contrived, but there all the same.
Report Post »spikebu
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 1:41amThe Bible is God’s Word. If any of you have questions about that, you need to go back and talk to God. How can anybody believe in God if He can’t even keep His own Word straight? Do you really believe He would let His Word become perverted? It’s His communication with us. He IS the Word! I don‘t believe He’d allow it to be twisted. @Catharsis–Wrong. The burden of proof rests on you. The majority accept God. We call it Faith. You have no scientific backing either. What do you call your fervent belief in something that doesn’t exist, scientifically? Prove your negative, Dude!
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 2:20am@BEEJ13
BEEJ13 wrote:
“Morality can come from any number of sources. Adherence to a particular faith or religious doctrine is not necessary to form a value system or personal code of conduct that adheres to social norms. Our interpretations of right/wrong and good/bad are largely cultural and familial in nature.”
Atheist is by definition an individual whom believes in zero God, nothing.
Define cultural as I understand it to origin from “cult” in which the “cult” was the tribes religion, belief, making ones culture. Your saying your an atheist ( believes in zero God) but yet come from a cult or religion. I think your confused and ignorant.
Claiming to be atheist but then stating you adhere to or “believe” in a morality code is ignorance. Ignorance not in a name calling but by it’s own definition. I will further elaborate so you do not take you being ignorant and I pointing it out as an insult.
Morality is defined as concern between right/wrong, good/bad
Those who do believe in God get their moral code from God, giving God authority thru and by this code. Atheist arrive at concern over right and wrong (morality) why? By not believing in anything why concern yourself with right/wrong? In order to determine what is right/wrong doesn’t there need to be authority over this code just as God is over those who believe in God? If not who determines which code is right as my moral code will be much different then yours and yours not like mine…..This is your ignorance over morality.
To have morals one must have authority to determine right/wrong. Those who believe in God believe he is the authority and he gives the code. If you adhere to a moral code, your submitting to the code you follow and the person who created it making them your God.
Feel relieved as this ignorance is gone now and understand you have a choice to accept it or to be stupid and ignore it. Your choice and no insult, just truth.
“As an atheist, I conduct myself in a manner that, hopefully, inspires others to be introspective. I take pride in my integrity, honor, honesty and self-reliance. People know they can trust me…and that’s important to me. They know that I hold myself to a higher standard. They know that I keep my promises and they know that I won’t cheat them.”
It is fascinating that you claim to be Atheist and again talk integrity, honor, honesty etc. Believing in nothing, zero God, why would one care of and for these things? Who determines right/wrong? As i see Atheists as having zero honor for denying God first and having zero honesty for lying to themselves second.
Who determines if I am right or if your right? I believe God, you believe?????no one????? Thus the reason as to why you are concerned with right/wrong (morality)…….
“Your assertion is that those of us who have made a conscious decision to be “godless” must live a self-absorbed, hollow, primitive existence. I assure you, that couldn’t be farther from the truth. It is our healthy sense of curiosity and wonderment that led us to question the existence of God in the first place…when so many others merely accepted what they were told to believe at an early age.”
Each day God allows you to awake you have a choice: live for God and do his works, or not live for God and do as you wish.
You claim your Atheist. You choose to help others. You do this for YOU not God as you believe in zero God. This equals to serve ones self.
Those who believe in God choose to follow God’s order and help others and serve them FOR God, not ones self…
Again you can choose to be stupid or accept this truth as it has been laid before you. Being ignorant is no longer an option as the information to truth is right before you.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 2:59am@BEEJ13
“I‘m an atheist because I don’t believe in the existence of a higher being. That does not make me — or those who share my view — a “communist loving moron” or a “leftist” or a “troll.” It makes us rational, sane, educated, thinking adults who have given the issue CONSIDERABLE thought and have come to a different conclusion than most. It’s not a decision we take lightly. It is one we make with absolute certainty, however.”
You state because you believe in nothing, zero God, this makes you rational, sane, educated, thinking adults……
Would I be correct in understanding This statement as you come to be rational, sane, educated because your Atheist and those who are not Atheist aren’t? it is kind of irrational to insult someone then complain of being insulted, isn’t it?
Being Atheist simply means you believe in nothing. It does equal sane, educated, nor rational but simply you do not believe in anything, zero God. If something doesn’t exist to you, you therefore can’t think of it. So one could also say an Atheist is one who can not think of God, right? Not being able to think of God while others can/do would equal those who can not having less power/ability then those who do, correct? That’s rational, right?
This absolute certainty you proclaim would be suffice to proves ones point. To bad you obtain it not for us to see otherwise proving your point. Fact is you have zero absolute and simply have nothing but your own thoughts or limitations of thought. Thoughts I have shown you, you haven’t quite thought thru.
I hope and do pray for you BEEJ13. God does exist and until you have proof otherwise, you have zero argument and nothing to talk about as you believe in nothing.
Report Post »digjam53
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 7:12amblogmates,
Report Post »Two things to consider. Atheists are not anti-religion. Quite to the contrary, they follow their own religious doctrine,, aka, a belief in things unseen. To be atheist, you must accept abiogenic origins of life, when the odds of a double helix, nucleic structure, cellular organalles, semi-permiable cellular structure, and of course,, REPLICATION BY DESTROYING ITSELF, an abiogenic original cell (there had to be one before many), would have to work in contradiction to the odds (nearly infinite) and against it’s own best interest. This is proof of a “belief in things unseen”, aka: religious doctrine.
Second, as to my brothers who believe, which bible is correct?,,If you check most any bookstore, there are at least a dozen different bibles in publication. They all differ. Trying to discern which is and which isn’t the true and absolutely inspired word of God, is a fool’s errand, as we have no capacity to divine (pun intended) such a thing. Hence, maybe it’d be more “Godly” of us, to be tolerant of other’s beliefs? We don’t have the capacity to be critical, as such.
Thanks for reading.
Beej13
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 7:43amSparky101…
Hello, again.
“You obviously did not read the verses I gave you, so you continue to miss the point. I suppose that is just your way, you know what you know and are loath to begin to understand that you don’t understand. It’s safer your way. Stay ignorant.”
Save the condescending tone for someone less capable.
Yes, I read the passages you cited…all of which confirmed your point that the primary goal of followers should be to seek God’s enlightenment. That should have been obvious in my follow up post. My question was relating to the abhorrent and, I’d say, hypocritical conduct of self-described Christians in this discussion, however. Your reply made no effort to address that.
“This was just from a half page, so since my list is much longer than your list, does this mean that athiests are meaner than Christians?”
Not at all. You cited the derogatory rantings of one individual. He speaks only for himself…and his conduct reflects poorly on him alone.
The examples I offered were only a brief sampling of what has transpired for (now) seven pages. The individuals responsible are too numerous to dismiss as a simple anomaly. Rather, there appears to be a “group think” mentality which allows people to feel comfortable questioning the intellect, motives and fate of others who have made a different choice in life.
I don‘t think you’re an idiot for believing in God. I think you followed the path that makes the most sense to you. It’s not my place to question your motives or convince you otherwise. The same consideration is all I ask in return.
That said, you completely evaded my question by trying to equate one person’s bad behavior with that of others. So, I’ll ask again:
Is it perfectly fine to demean and denigrate others while “seeking God”…or is that generally frowned upon in Christianity?
Either God condones reprehensible behavior done in His name or these individuals are exceedingly poor examples of the Christian faith. Take your pick.
“When you say you attended Bible School, do you mean like a Bible College, or something like confirmation or perhaps Sunday School?”
Sunday school. We called it Bible school, but that’s what it was.
“If this is how you believe people become Christians, then I can understand your confusion. Like you really believe that Christians don’t similarly have ‘a healthy sense of curiosity and wonderment’? I sensed a bias that may help explain something under the surface, something untrue and contrived, but there all the same.”
There’s no confusion here. I was referring to another poster’s assertion that atheists (apparently, we’re a monolithic entity) lack curiosity and a sense of wonder about the world around us. It’s an absurd statement and more than a little insulting.
Of course, Christians have those same traits. We’re all human. The point was that at an age (16-20) where many of us really started to question the things we were taught from early childhood, a lot of people simply went with the “safe” bet out of fear or apprehension. That‘s not to say that those people didn’t actively “seek God” later in life. In their youth, however, their faith was less than unshakable…but they weren’t prepared to take the big step and question the existence of God.
Any bias you sense stems from your own preconceived notions of what constitutes an atheist. I’ve been nothing but cordial and thoughtful in my responses.
Report Post »Beej13
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 9:31amOkie from Muskogee…
Hello. Thank you for replying.
Your etymological dissertation on the word “cultural” is interesting, but irrelevant to my explanation.
By cultural, I’m referencing the “activities and ideas of a group of people with shared traditions, which are transmitted and reinforced by members of the group.” There’s no inherent theological basis in that definition. You can make assumptions about what “ideas” means, but I focus on the “shared traditions” aspect.
The bottom line is that there are accepted and unaccepted — “right” and “wrong” — codes of social behavior within any particular group. In the absence of religious doctrine, groups of people are still capable of making a collective (NOT in the communist sense) decision of what they constitute as “good” and “bad” behavior. The authority to enforce that code comes from the individual(s) chosen to be leader(s) of the group.
You have an abbreviated understanding of morality…one that does not venture beyond religious doctrine as a starting point. Morality is simply conformity to the established rules or standards of acceptable conduct. A belief in God is not required to form opinions of right and wrong based on personal experiences.
If I think it’s wrong for people to punch each other in the head, it‘s because I don’t like being punched in the head, myself. God didn’t suggest it to me. My sore head did.
“It is fascinating that you claim to be Atheist and again talk integrity, honor, honesty etc. Believing in nothing, zero God, why would one care of and for these things? Who determines right/wrong? As i see Atheists as having zero honor for denying God first and having zero honesty for lying to themselves second.”
I can’t really speak to your odd sense of humanity. Your assertion appears to be that without God in their lives, people are incapable of honor, integrity, decency or honesty. That’s just bizarre. I‘m not sure that you’ve really thought that one through very well.
“You claim your Atheist. You choose to help others. You do this for YOU not God as you believe in zero God. This equals to serve ones self.”
No. I try to lead by example to help others improve their OWN lives…not mine. I’ll continue to conduct myself with honor and integrity whether anyone follows or not. My view is that society would benefit if everyone — individually — were more respectful and accountable. Whether that happens or not, my values will remain the same.
“Again you can choose to be stupid or accept this truth as it has been laid before you. Being ignorant is no longer an option as the information to truth is right before you.”
You confuse your “beliefs” for “truth”…while disparaging anyone who chooses not to see it your way. That’s unfortunate.
“Would I be correct in understanding This statement as you come to be rational, sane, educated because your Atheist and those who are not Atheist aren’t?”
No. It‘s my assertion that it’s entirely possible for us both to be rational, sane and educated individuals…yet, still arrive at different conclusions. You seem to feel differently.
“Being Atheist simply means you believe in nothing.”
No. It means I don’t believe in God…nothing more, nothing less.
“If something doesn’t exist to you, you therefore can’t think of it. So one could also say an Atheist is one who can not think of God, right?”
No. As long as there are people like yourself in the world — to introduce and define the concept of God in glorious detail to all us knuckle-dragging heathens — there will be people like me who rationally and reasonably weigh the totality of the evidence and conclude differently.
“Fact is you have zero absolute and simply have nothing but your own thoughts or limitations of thought.”
I’m as certain in my conclusion as I am my very existence.
“I hope and do pray for you BEEJ13. God does exist and until you have proof otherwise, you have zero argument and nothing to talk about as you believe in nothing.”
While considerate, your prayers would be better spent on people who share your belief system. The onus is not on me to prove anything, as I’m not trying to convert you to my way of thinking. You’ve made your choice and I wish you well. I actually believe in a great number of things and can discuss them in considerable depth. God is not on that list.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 11:44amBEEJ, what you said is in quotes below. My responses follow:
“Save the condescending tone for someone less capable.”
I purposely did as you did. See, you say one thing and then claim you said another, or you say something and then deride another for doing the same. I can’t play by your rules, as they are contradictory.
“Yes, I read the passages you cited…all of which confirmed your point that the primary goal of followers should be to seek God’s enlightenment.”
No, you missed the obvious point once again. These verses (continuous throughout the scriptures) do not say to seek enlightenment, they say to seek God, and seek him with your whole heart, mind, strength and soul (meaning, in part, that it should involve an intellectual effort, not a mindless acceptance). It means the goal is pursuing God, not what God gives.
“You cited the derogatory rantings of one individual. He speaks only for himself…and his conduct reflects poorly on him alone. The examples I offered were only a brief sampling of what has transpired for (now) seven pages. The individuals responsible are too numerous to dismiss as a simple anomaly. Rather, there appears to be a “group think” mentality which allows people to feel comfortable questioning the intellect, motives and fate of others who have made a different choice in life.”
Again, you sidestep a measured response to the issue you brought up. This is another example of your contradictions. You bring to my attention some of what you feel are derogatory statements made by (in your opinion, Christians), but you excuse away the rants of a self described atheist (who by the way, only repeats what other self described atheists have said over and over on the Blaze and on CNN, and on MSNBC blogs). Might I add that you specifically said:
“It is our healthy sense of curiosity and wonderment that led us to question the existence of God in the first place…when so many others merely accepted what they were told to believe at an early age.”
You don’t find that to be a condescending bit of divination that artificially elevates you and your atheist friends above Christians? But more to the point, what does Jesus mean in Matthew 11:25 and most importantly in Matthew 18:3?
“Is it perfectly fine to demean and denigrate others while “seeking God”…or is that generally frowned upon in Christianity?”
Again, you miss the greater point. Shouldn’t your question be “is it perfectly fine for anyone to demean another”? It has nothing at all to do with “seeking God,” and everything to do with being unkind (for whatever reason). Why would you hold Christians to a higher standard than an atheist? See, you look at a few and generalize about the many. It’s convenient, and supports your bias, but it is on a foundation of sand that you built your house. Pursuing God is a process, commonly referred to as “the walk.” All people are in different places, and all are human – subject to human emotions and faults. I could point you to thousands of Christians who would never speak poorly of another. I could put them all in my box (as you have done) and label it “Christians.” Then I could say that all Christians are great followers of God. But, just like your box labeled “Christians,” my box would be false.
“Sunday school. We called it Bible school, but that’s what it was.”
I didn’t go to Sunday School. My parents were pretty spotty on Church attendance. When we did go, all I saw were hypocrites, not Christians. I was blind and did not have ears to hear. I was judgmental and filled with pride. I was better than them. Did your Bible School teach exactly why Jesus was nailed to a tree, what he said as he was dying, and that he rose out of the tomb AND that there were as many as 500 eyewitnesses (some named) who saw him after he left the tomb, and that there are no biblical or extra biblical writings that refuted those eyewitnesses?
“There’s no confusion here. I was referring to another poster’s assertion that atheists (apparently, we’re a monolithic entity) lack curiosity and a sense of wonder about the world around us. It’s an absurd statement and more than a little insulting.”
I can understand your sensitivity to that. It is most certainly not correct. So, why did you say (“It is our healthy sense of curiosity and wonderment that led us to question the existence of God in the first place…when so many others merely accepted what they were told to believe at an early age.”)?
“Of course, Christians have those same traits. We’re all human. The point was that at an age (16-20) where many of us really started to question the things we were taught from early childhood, a lot of people simply went with the “safe” bet out of fear or apprehension.”
Once again your divination and clairvoyance wells up. What “fear” and “apprehension” did YOU experience, and more importantly was that scriptural?
“…but they weren’t prepared to take the big step and question the existence of God.”
How do you know this? How can you say that about anyone but yourself? How do you know what others think? What is a word for a person that puts their own thoughts into the mouths of others, and based on that, then forms an opinion about those people?
“Any bias you sense stems from your own preconceived notions of what constitutes an atheist. I’ve been nothing but cordial and thoughtful in my responses.”
I believe I’ve competently exposed your bias. I know what constitutes an atheist. I once was one and so were all my companions. It was comfortable and fun to feel I knew it all. Then one day, I realized I really knew no one who was a real Christian, yet I held them in such low esteem. As an educated person, I began to investigate how I came to such an opinion. I considered myself “open minded” and could comfortably entertain discussions on any topic save one, Christianity.
That epiphany stoked my interest so much that I decided to really know what it was all about. That was just over 21 years ago. I’m even more stoked now and still learning. Bless you for honestly sharing your opinions. I think you should cut Christians more slack. I think you are as wrong about them as many on this vine are about atheists. But, I do think you are intelligent and thinking, and that much of what you say bears some merit. I’d recommend that you make the effort to gain a Christian friend that meets your standards, and unless your standards are unrealistic, then you’ll discover that you’ve made a truly great friend.
Report Post »Jezcruzen
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 12:06pmWell, Mr. atheist, why is it then that you of superior intellect and understanding can’t just leave us uneducated heathens alone with our mystical beliefs instead of mounting court challenges every time someone erects a cross? Feel left out or something? You don’t understand what being “left out” really is, but you’re going to.
Report Post »ying
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 12:33pmFoxhole, you said, “…..While many Atheists are progressives, there are progressives that do believe in god……”. They will tell you that they believe in God, but in the same sentence also tell you that Jesus isn’t His son. But, THAT means they DON’T believe in God BECAUSE God DOES have a son named Jesus! There is only ONE God, and THAT one is somebody else!
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 1:16pm@BEEJ13
“By cultural, I’m referencing the “activities and ideas of a group of people with shared traditions, which are transmitted and reinforced by members of the group.” There’s no inherent theological basis in that definition. You can make assumptions about what “ideas” means, but I focus on the “shared traditions” aspect.”
Yes the activities and ideas of a group of people (tribe) or cult, which is reinforced by members (authority God) creates a culture. Learn and understand language before you speak of it.
“The bottom line is that there are accepted and unaccepted — “right” and “wrong” — codes of social behavior within any particular group. In the absence of religious doctrine, groups of people are still capable of making a collective (NOT in the communist sense) decision of what they constitute as “good” and “bad” behavior. The authority to enforce that code comes from the individual(s) chosen to be leader(s) of the group.”
If my tribe believes it’s moral to kick your tribe in the nuts, is that ok and who is right? According to your logic as long as my tribe creates a moral order it’s ok. That goes to my point, some figure must over see this moral code. That figure is a God whether you accept it or not. Slavery was once thought of to be moral wasn’t it? If your tribe has slaves and my tribe believes it’s wrong who is to determine who is right or if slavery is moral? My point is God does……The supreme being does.
You have an abbreviated understanding of morality and it’s origins. Do some research on morality.
“If I think it’s wrong for people to punch each other in the head, it‘s because I don’t like being punched in the head, myself. God didn’t suggest it to me. My sore head did.”
If I like to get hit in the head does it make it ok to hit you in the head? Your logic would say yes correct?
“I can’t really speak to your odd sense of humanity. Your assertion appears to be that without God in their lives, people are incapable of honor, integrity, decency or honesty. That’s just bizarre. I‘m not sure that you’ve really thought that one through very well.”
If one answers to nothing, one has no reason to have honor, integrity, or honesty. Like a child who has no parent you will do as you please regardless of rules as there is not a supreme to reinforce the code. Without God you do not have honor, integrity, honesty etc.
“No. I try to lead by example to help others improve their OWN lives…not mine. I’ll continue to conduct myself with honor and integrity whether anyone follows or not. My view is that society would benefit if everyone — individually — were more respectful and accountable. Whether that happens or not, my values will remain the same”
First you say you do this for others. The next sentence you say you do it for yourself. Which is it? Are you serving others or are you serving your self? It seems as if you do this to make you feel good and to lift you up.
BEEJ13 I can continue on and on and on with many points but I will not. I will conclude and leave you simply by saying this: if you’re atheist you believe in zero SUPREME being, zero God….. Understand that would include yourself. Understand the definition of worship, submitting, and God. You submit to a moral code and worship the supreme reinforcement leader of this code. This is fact. Without a supreme one can not have order. Truth is before you. Peace be with you.
Report Post »sonnetswan
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 4:44pmArtifice
A hurricane approaches near the coast
with winds that reach like tentacles on land.
Its flurries breach each crack in wall and post
to douse the candles held by trembling hand.
A voice of reason climbs above the roar
declaring logic’s edge must now prevail;
the fittest wit retreats beneath the floor
to bunkers built and planned in great detail.
They sit in safety, though without God’s light,
for aptitude desires no help from prayers.
The ocean rises up to mountain height
then crashes down the sanctuary stairs.
While some decree man’s intellect supreme,
Report Post »a cemetery bursts this wishful dream.
Luke21
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 6:44pmBeej13
Are you saying you know there is no God or are you saying you believe there is insufficient evidence to support the existence of God? I’ve read many of your posts and I think it’s the former but I don’t wish to put words in your mouth. You’re obviously an intelligent fellow, well spoken (written), and you’ve given considerable thought to your position. On the other hand if you are stating that there is no God you are making a positive statement of fact at which you are then accountable for stating your proof (evidence) and are in the same conundrum that you claim the “believers” are in.
Now if you are stating there is insufficient evidence that there is a God and on that basis the burden of proof is on the believers to produce such proof, then I would simply say there is ample “evidence” be it DNA (which is organized, encoded information & any computer scientist would laugh at the assertion that computers & compilers & higher level programming languages came into existence by chance), the Anthropic principle, the fossil layer (& lack of transitional species) and so on, so forth.
We simply disagree on what the evidence means. You might for example look at the Grand Canyon and see a river carving it over millions if not billions of years. I look at the same canyon & see something that could easily have been carved in days if not hours by a great deluge of water, e.g. a flood, or an earthquake (we simply need to look at Japan to see what destruction & land re-shaping water and earthquakes can produce).
I’m sure you are aware of the problems with Darwinism and those still defending it, generally defend it using ad hominem attacks. Despite the fact that if evolution were true, nature should produce countless examples of it (in Darwin’s own words the fossil record should bare it out) yet those still searching for the holy grail of evolution (be it chemical or biological or other) to date have done so (& I assert will do so “forever”) in vain. Richard Dawkins, a self-proclaimed apologist for atheists, perhaps recognizing where the evidence is leading, has even posited a theory that man might have been seeded here by “aliens”.
Mind you, your position (atheism) up until the past century was considered silly (and that century brought us the bloodiest century in all of human history). The assertion that we need to “prove” the existence of God contradicts the Bible and most all human history until the 1800s and the likes of Marx, Freud, and Darwin (to name a few), came along. Yet such great scientific minds such as Newton, Maxwell, and Einstein never entertained atheism (if science could prove there to be no God, one would think they could have done it). The founders themselves stated in the Declaration of Independence “we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men were endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights…”. In other words the existence of God (a Creator) is axiomatic (self-evident truth) for which no argumentative proof is necessary. Which is the precise argument that Paul uses in Romans 1, the creation declares His glory…
You say you’re a moral man, you even like to use biblical morals in your charge against believers. Let me ask you, where do your morals or ethics come from? If there is no God (which you know means judge or law giver), then, not to be flippant, who is to say your morals or ethics are any better than Hitler’s, Stalin’s, Or Mau’s? Seriously? You might say its a silly question, and the problems w/ their morals were obvious. But why? If there is no supreme law giver, there is no supreme law. Therefore the law is left to man to give to himself, and what makes one man’s law any better than another (he who has a bigger gun)? On that point, atheists make themselves god.
That said, I’d like to point out something that you probably agree w/ but may have been lost in the shuffle. First, all that believe in God (as you know) – even all that believe in the God of the Bible are not Christians (truly regenerated, born again followers/disciples of Jesus Christ). Not all here claiming God’s existence are Christian. Those of us that are Christians and posting boorishly as you’ve claimed need to repent and if possible apologize (myself included). If we are being offensive through name calling, shame on us. If on the other hand what offends you is the word of God (or those telling you what the Bible says) that is a different matter.
Jesus offended many – most actually (most notably the religious leaders) and made no apology for it. To the Jew (the keepers of the law) the cross (Christ crucified) is a stumbling block, to the Greek (intellectual) it is offensive (1 Corinthians 1:23). God proclaims that His people parish (are destroyed) for a lack of knowledge (ignorance) – Hosea 4:6. He holds us all accountable for the revelation (light) given us. Be it general revelation (the heavens, the earth and its fullness) – Romans chapter 1, or direct through the oracles of God, the prophets, and last and most importantly God the Son. All men are w/out excuse (Romans 2:1).
In closing, Jesus will not be debating w/ any of us His existence on the day of judgment. He won’t be judging us on our belief or lack of belief in God (His existence will certainly be self-evident). He will judge us on whether or not we knew the Living God and He knew us (Matthew 7:21-23), whether or not we put our trust (our faith, our belief) in Him (John 3). I know who the president is, but he doesn’t know me. I cannot call him & invite myself to the Whitehouse. On the other hand if he knew me, then (presuming a good relationship) I could make that phone call and be received. The good news is that those who call on the name of the Lord will be saved:
Romans 10:4-18 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (5) For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “THE MAN WHO DOES THOSE THINGS SHALL LIVE BY THEM.” (6) But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) (7) or, ” ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). (8) But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): (9) that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (10) For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (11) For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM WILL NOT BE PUT TO SHAME.” (12) For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. (13) For “WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.” (14) How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? (15) And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO PREACH THE GOSPEL OF PEACE, WHO BRING GLAD TIDINGS OF GOOD THINGS!” (16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” (17) So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (18) But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: “THEIR SOUND HAS GONE OUT TO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.”
@ JBLAZE: Grace & Peace to you brother, thank you. Truthfully though I’d say closer to Ephesus or Laodicea. God bless you & I’ll see you at His coming. Amen
Report Post »Ken from Louisiana
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 8:09pmBeej, I completely appreciate the time you have spent in addressing your beliefs. I feel the same way. I am sure that you live an exemplary lifestyle and should there wind up being a god he or she will see how well you lived your life and appreciate you for it. That is how I live my life. I do more than my share tending to “god’s” planet and all of his lesser creatures. God may say to me.”hey, you didn’t believe in me” and I’ll just reply”nope, but I teated every one and everything as though I did.” If you’ve never heard this you should check it out…This is one of a few interviews with Bart Ehrman, who is a bible scholar and chairman of the religious studies department at one of the major universities in North Carolina. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5052156
Report Post »Don’t get all crazy everybody…even the writers of these stories will at times link to an NPR story.
TXMD
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 9:57pmThe THREE LITTLE PIGS IS NOT A GRIMM TALE – IT’S ENGLISH (~1943), but the bottom line is valid and now apparently untaught.
The tale of the Three Little Pigs and the Big Bad Wolf was included in Nursery Rhymes and Nursery Tales (London, c.1843), by James Orchard Halliwell-Phillipps.[1] The story in its arguably best-known form appeared English Fairy Tales by Joseph Jacobs, first published in 1890 and crediting Halliwell as his source.[2] The story begins with the title characters being sent out into the world by their mother, to “seek their fortune”. The first little pig builds a house of straw, but a wolf blows it down and eats the first little pig. The second pig builds a house of sticks, but with the same ultimate result. Each exchange between wolf and pig features ringing proverbial phrases, namely:
“Little pig, little pig, let me come in.”
“No, no, by the hair on my chiny chin chin.”
“Then I’ll huff, and I’ll puff, and I’ll blow your house in.[3]
The third pig builds a house of hard bricks. The wolf couldn’t huff and puff hard enough to blow the house down. He attempts to trick the little pig out of the house, but the pig outsmarts him at every turn. Finally, the wolf resolves to come down the chimney, whereupon the pig boils a pot of water into which the wolf plunges, at which point the pig quickly covers the pot and cooks the wolf for supper.
The story utilizes the literary Rule of three, expressed in this case as a “contrasting three”, as the third pig’s house turns out to be the only one which is adequate to withstand the wolf.[4]
Report Post »Ken from Louisiana
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 10:50pmdigjam53, I did not notice your post earlier. well said.
Report Post »I consider myself to be an atheist, but have no disrespect for any religion. In fact, I am tolerant and respectful of all religions. I will gladly participate in the rituals of any religion. ( I do have a problem with zealots of any religion, though.) I will still offer people a “god bless you” when someone is helpful to me or other people that I care about. I do not have a problem with Merry Christmas and am hearty about offering one even though I have never been a Christian. honestly, I was a man of faith once, but like many of us who fall from religion I had a problem with the intolerance of all religions and an inability to reconcile suffering in god’s master plan.
JN
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:43amThis is what happens when people who don’t fully understand the Problem of Evil make comments. Asserting that God cannot exist because he created something capable of evil is saying that someone who creates a painting does not exist (or is a despot) because his painting has the capability of being ruined. God created people, and revealed to people that he loves them and gives them a chance at redemption. That choice is what separates us from being automatons that love God blindly. If you do not believe that God’s revelation is not true, that is your statement of faith, but don’t look down on others for having a different faith than you.
Report Post »Tomr
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 1:28pm@ CHAD
Excellant post, right on target. Also, thanks for the heads up on a great video.
Report Post »Beej13
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 3:19amSparky101…
Hello, again, my friend.
~~~”I purposely did as you did. See, you say one thing and then claim you said another, or you say something and then deride another for doing the same. I can’t play by your rules, as they are contradictory.”
I believe I‘ve been consistent throughout and I’ve done as much as I can — space permitting — to make my views clear as day for anyone interested. Likewise, I’ve been nothing but cordial to you…even though, you have continued to question my sincerity and integrity with each reply. If there’s been any confusion or misunderstanding, it’s been in your analysis of my words.
~~~”No, you missed the obvious point once again. These verses … do not say to seek enlightenment, they say to seek God, and seek him with your whole heart, mind, strength and soul … It means the goal is pursuing God, not what God gives.”
Really?
- “But Jehoshaphat also said to the king of Israel, ‘First SEEK THE COUNSEL of the Lord.’” (1 Kings 22:5)
- “But SEEK FIRST HIS KINGDOM and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, and all these things will be given to you as well.” (Matthew 6:33)
By your own examples, individuals are directed to seek the COUNSEL, RIGHTEOUSNESS and KINGDOM of God…not simply God.
Now, in the general sense, when someone seeks the counsel of another, is he not, by definition, seeking enlightenment? You wouldn’t seek the counsel of someone who knows LESS than you, right? In the theological sense, “counsel” is prescribed “for aid in attaining moral perfection.” Again, does this not equate to a degree of instruction or enlightenment for a specific purpose?
I don’t speak in riddles, so I have to take these words at face value. Now, if there‘s some hidden meaning behind these lines of scripture that my heathen brain can’t possibly process in their proper context, so be it. I openly confess that I am not a theologian. Once again, we appear to be looking at the same information and reaching different conclusions.
Regardless, the assertion that I made no effort to look up the lines you cited was false…and your subsequent tone was unnecessarily accusatory. I wouldn‘t be here if I weren’t a serious person willing to give your arguments full consideration.
~~~”You bring to my attention some of what you feel are derogatory statements made by [Christians] … but you excuse away the rants of a self described atheist….”
No. I stated:
“He speaks only for himself…and his conduct REFLECTS POORLY on him alone.”
I’m not sure how much clearer I can be. I obviously disapprove of that person’s conduct and would not engage in such name-calling myself. Bad behavior is bad behavior. There’s something to be said about the VOLUME of poor conduct on display, though.
One person proudly displaying his lack of manners does not equate to eight pages of self-described Christians citing biblical passages to justify their condemnation, disparagement and disrespect of those who believe differently. Perhaps, those individuals need to re-examine Commandments #3 and #9.
~~~”You don’t find that to be a condescending bit of divination that artificially elevates you and your atheist friends above Christians?”
No. I find that to be another example of you processing my thoughts through your own preconceptions and — consciously or subconsciously — misconstruing my words to fit your argument. You asked me to clarify that statement and I did, yet you are still unwilling to accept my honest explanation. What more can I do?
~~~“I believe I’ve competently exposed your bias. I know what constitutes an atheist. I once was one and so were all my companions.”
Honestly, what you exposed was your own bias. Your life is not my life and your past experiences are not my past experiences. Your reasons for abandoning any notion of God in your youth were not necessarily the same as mine…and your subsequent transformation suggests nothing about the strength of my convictions going forward. We are simply different people who have carefully considered and chosen different paths in life.
~~~“Bless you for honestly sharing your opinions. I think you should cut Christians more slack. I think you are as wrong about them as many on this vine are about atheists. But, I do think you are intelligent and thinking, and that much of what you say bears some merit.”
I wish you all the best, as well. My intentions were never to demean or denigrate the views of anyone else…only to defend my own. My family provides ample proof that there are very good people of faith. My rebuke was solely directed at some of the individuals participating in this discussion, not people of faith in general.
More than anything, I wanted to dispel the notion that atheists are, by definition, left-of-center elitists who want to tear down America and restrict others’ right to express their religious freedoms as they see fit.
Such people obviously exist, but they are merely the vocal minority who get all the attention. I would never freely associate with such people. The reality is, most are like me…perfectly happy to respect your beliefs and traditions. All we ask is that you extend the same basic decency in return. I like to think that we can disagree without being disagreeable to one another.
Report Post »Beej13
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 5:16amOkie from Muskogee…
Hello again, Okie.
Please refrain from condescension. I‘m sure that you’re perfectly capable of expressing your thoughts without resorting to belittling asides. They do nothing to diminish my argument and only reflect poorly on you.
~~~”If my tribe believes it’s moral to kick your tribe in the nuts, is that ok and who is right?”
Well, you’ve changed the hypothesis from how values are established within a group in the absence of God to how multiple groups with competing value systems co-exist. That’s a completely different issue.
I assure you, my group would not stand idly by and allow you to go Chuck Norris on our beans. There would be substantial repercussions — after we regained consciousness — and something as bad or worse would be done in return. After that, we may fight to the death, reach a peaceful agreement, assimilate or part ways completely.
None of those options addresses the reality that my group’s sense of right and wrong (as it pertains to the assault on our now grapefruit-sized testicles) formed in the complete absence of a belief in God, however.
~~~”If I like to get hit in the head does it make it ok to hit you in the head? Your logic would say yes correct?”
If I liked it, too, yes. If, however, I stabbed you in the eye to show my displeasure (assuming you don’t like that, as well), you‘d quickly learn that it’s not acceptable to hit me in the head…regardless of how much you, personally, enjoy it. Between us, we would arrive at an agreement of what behavior is acceptable and what behavior is unacceptable. A belief in God is not necessary for us to reach a mutual understanding.
~~~“If one answers to nothing, one has no reason to have honor, integrity, or honesty. Like a child who has no parent you will do as you please regardless of rules as there is not a supreme to reinforce the code. Without God you do not have honor, integrity, honesty etc.”
No. Authority comes in many forms not relating to the existence of God.
If you have two parents who arrive at a mutual code of conduct — a sense of morality — in the manner described above, those values could be passed down to their offspring. Positive and negative reinforcement would be used to establish the boundaries of acceptability. Through that, the character traits of honor, integrity and honesty would be shaped and promoted until the child made the right decisions on his own…seeking positive re-enforcement (approval) and avoiding the behavior that resulted in negative reinforcement (punishment).
There’s still no need for a belief in God in order to establish and abide by a set of values…or pass them on to others.
~~~“First you say you do this for others. The next sentence you say you do it for yourself. Which is it? Are you serving others or are you serving your self? It seems as if you do this to make you feel good and to lift you up.”
No. I conduct myself in a manner that I believe to be honorable. In a lot of ways, it goes above and beyond what society deems acceptable these days. It’s not about lifting myself up. It’s about adhering to my personal sense of right and wrong.
To the extent that others take something away from their interactions with me and make positive changes to their own behavior, I can’t say. I believe many people could benefit from integrating mutual respect and common decency into their lives, but it has no bearing on my intentions or desire to continue adhering to my own code.
~~~“Understand the definition of worship, submitting, and God. You submit to a moral code and worship the supreme reinforcement leader of this code. This is fact. Without a supreme one can not have order. Truth is before you. Peace be with you.”
I think I’ve more than sufficiently illustrated that to be a false premise, but we’ll have to agree to disagree. Best wishes to you, Okie.
Report Post »Beej13
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 6:20amLuke21…
Thank you for replying. That was a very good read…thoughtful and well-explained.
Stated properly, I believe there is no higher being called God or anything else. It is, in fact, my belief…as I cannot possibly prove it in life or death. The unflinching strength of that belief, however, is of a magnitude that often leads me to speak with a degree of certainty. Admittedly, that is careless on my part.
Evolution, like the Theory of Universal Gravity, has unresolved problems. I do not profess to be an expert on either or to have all the answers. I’m perfectly willing to concede that while science has advanced the ball considerably, it is still woefully inadequate to explain the origins of life. That‘s not to say that we’ll NEVER know…only that contemporary methods, testing and analysis are too insufficient to satisfy even basic human curiosity on the matter.
I assure you, I’m not offended by the “word of God” or your faith in the least. To my knowledge, I’m the only atheist in my family. Nonetheless, I love my family dearly and do not think them foolish for believing differently.
I believe I’ve already answered your other concerns in the replies above, so I won’t address them again here.
Thank you, again, and best wishes.
Report Post »Beej13
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 6:33amKen from Louisiana…
Thank you for your kind words. It’s my contention that atheists like you and me represent the majority…not the trouble-making crackpots who file lawsuits over Christmas carols, graduation invocations and such.
I believe I’ve read excerpts from Mr. Ehrman’s findings before. The degree to which those texts have been mistranslated, improperly transcribed, edited, misinterpreted and misrepresented over centuries and centuries is remarkable. Nonetheless, pointing out such inconsistencies in a public forum never seems to end well. I generally find it more productive to avoid the topic altogether and just be respectful of other peoples’ beliefs.
Take care.
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