Faith

Beck Shares Rare Book About America‘s ’Holy Experiment,’ Asking Can Man Rule Himself?

Only 500 of these books were made in 1920 and Glenn Beck managed to get his hands on one of them. The book, called The Holy Experiment, tells the story of America. And the American story is one animated by the question: can man rule himself? The answer, of course, is yes.

Beck Shares Rare Book About Americas Holy Experiment, Asking Can Man Rule Himself?

In this clip from his Fox News show, Glenn flips through the book, reads from it, and shares with his audience some of the paintings that adorn its pages:

Comments (128)

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  • louise
    Posted on April 28, 2011 at 5:20am

    This a a really good discussion.
    I have a few thoughts on the subject of “Can man rule himself”.
    I think that there must be a distinction between self-rule and obedience to God. This truth is throughout the Bible.
    When man is separated from God he naturally thinks he can rule himself..plot his own course. What is the overwhelming evidence that this way of living is always good, peace-filled, and loving? The overwhelming evidence throughout history is that man falls very short.
    God is our Heavenly Father, and as Father to His children, obedience on our part is necessary for our own good and eternal salvation. One of the titles for Jesus Christ and King of kings and Lord of lords.
    Also, throughout scripture we see that we are servants in Christ Jesus.
    so what about “freedom”…?
    I have come to the conclusion that I am “free” to be a “slave (or servant, or co-labourer)” in Christ.
    And this is a beautiful and wonderful thing.

    Report Post » louise  
  • Arc
    Posted on April 28, 2011 at 2:17am

    I think one of the reasons that SOME would have ALL believe they can’t rule themselves comes down to one shortcoming in man. GREED, Greed doesn’t necessarily refer to money. It can point to power, morality, intellect and religion. History will show us that man or woman who seizes the opportunity to rule, does so out of a narsisstic state of their particular life. The PROGRESSIVES would have us believe that their morality CANNOT be questioned and most certainly their intellect is far superior to peasants ( poor ) and serfs blue collar). Their AIM is POWER and any real form of religion is THE ENEMY.

    So, to the current crop of Progressives/socialist/marxist or communist I say this.

    Should you be so shallow and arrogant to think you could FORCE me to simply ROLLOVER so you can feed some weird sense of importance, know this. I layed my life on the line for 20 years for our freedom and I WILL NOT stand idly by while you attempt to subvert my country that I know to be HONEST, JUST and FREE. Long live the Republic!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Report Post » Arc  
  • Chief Moolah Eggplant
    Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:35am

    If there was only one man on earth could he “rule himself”?
    Adam?
    If one man alone cannot “rule himself” then what chance is there for billions?

    Report Post »  
  • Conservophiliac
    Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:31am

    The only thing I disrespect about Glen is that he is Mormon. It shows a lack of critical thinking. Mormonism is a false religion and in no way is it Christian. It is extremely disappointing that he has an intellect as such that he cannot see the blatant and ridiculous falsehoods of the Mormon heresy.

    Mormons are nice people and dedicated to their faith and if real Christians did half the things that Mormons do imagine the real impact we could have. But as it is we have a false religion proselytizing while we sit back and do nothing.

    The book of mormon is provably false in so many ways there is no one who can critically look at it and not see it. Brainwashing is a very powerful thing.

    Report Post » Conservophiliac  
    • jwagz75
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:43am

      A quote that is all-too appropriate for this post:

      “You’re asking me about people who hold kooky beliefs. You’re talking to someone who believes that a 30-year-old day laborer who was executed 2000 years ago for disturbing the peace in a country that no longer exists happens to be the clue to the meaning of the universe.”

      ~J. Gordon Melton, Director of the Institute for the Study of American Religion, in a St. Petersburg Times interview on religious groups and the mystery of faith

      Report Post »  
    • LetUsReason
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 1:08am

      Your post doesn’t say anything of real substance. It is simply you expounding on an opinion, without any real analysis. If I was an anti-Mormon onlooker, I’d frankly be embarrassed to have you on my team. You even misspelled Glenn’s name.

      Report Post »  
    • adarra
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 6:27am

      In Galatians 1:8-9 Paul says, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Glenn’s a nice guy, but the LDS is a false church. They teach a different gospel than the apostles taught. Even if an angel did give Joseph Smith the Book of Mormon it’s still a different gospel than what the apostles gave. The book of Mormon is a false revalation.

      Report Post »  
    • mill
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 9:41am

      Those of you that condemn Glenn for being Mormon are the “baddest of the bad’. It is not your place to condemn anyone for their religion. You come across as self righteous piglets. Try running your own home and allow God to do the rest.

      I am not a Mormon nor Christian and think they both lack critical thinking. In your mind you think I’m as crazy as I know you are.

      I believe life and the “hereafter” is about you, you personally, how you live your life, how you treat others, NOT a book.

      Some of the nastiest most self righteous people I have EVER known are “christian”.. Mormons fit in that category, as many religions do. It’s the person, not the book I don’t believe for one moment that God said “if you don‘t’ belong to this particular religion you are going to hell and burn forever”..bullpocky Religion…man’s way of controlling his fellow man.
      Remember..
      “ going to church does not make you a christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car” .

      Report Post »  
    • Conservophiliac
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 11:20am

      @letusreason
      No, I didn’t give any substance because to refute the heresy of mormonism would take a very long time and the brainwashing is so deep it will make zero difference. I was simply stating that to be a mormon is simply to lack critical thinking skills.

      Report Post » Conservophiliac  
  • jwagz75
    Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:20am

    I’m not commenting to debate theological arguments nor to promote or denounce any particular set of religious beliefs. What I do want to acknowledge is how encouraging it is to see so many people engaged in the discussion about God, and man’s role in this world in relation to God. I do not subscribe to any one particular sect of Christianity, but I find that arguing over religion is not constructive and instead we should find common ground within our beliefs to perhaps better understand them. I find it disheartening to read the comments about Glenn’s faith and why he chose it. I do not claim to “know” the Truth because am not arrogant (for lack of a better word) enough to believe that the beliefs I hold are true and the billions of people in this world who disagree with them are wrong. It does not matter to me in the least if one chooses to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Wiccan, or Atheistist. All that concerns me is the manner in which one conducts themselves and whether they are a good person at heart… but i digress.

    Report Post »  
  • donh2
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 11:36pm

    I heard Glenn mention his admiration for the image of George Washington seen in this book illustration. George Washington was a Master Mason. The pose he strikes is known as “ God Set Fighting ” … http://www.thelemapedia.org/images/d/d7/Sign_earth.gif … It is also the “ As above so below” pose of the magician . … http://www.agoyangyang.com/userfiles/Magician.jpg ..The Glenn Becks / born again people lose me when they romance about how Christian our founding fathers were. Publically they had a facade of christianity , but privately they beheld a secret order practicing old world occultism that dominates our government to this day . The quest is not for man to rule himself but for man to become God . It is this evil quest to be God unto ourselves that has turned America into a mad house of satanic control freaks.

    Report Post »  
  • GIRL
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 11:22pm

    Excellent modern book on William Penn, named by Thomas Jefferson as the greatest lawgiver man has seen and from whose PA laws our Constitution grew, and his “Holy Experiment”: http://www.amazon.com/Seed-Nation-Rediscovering-America/dp/160037204X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303960758&sr=8-1

    Report Post »  
  • reckless
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 11:13pm

    Lawrence O’Donnell knows more about God than does Glenn Beck…
    …he also knows more about God than does God himself.

    Report Post »  
  • thejackal
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:58pm

    Dang Glen, your credibility is fading at an exponential progression now. Just chillax and be mellow. We know Obamahommad is destroying America just like you do. You don’t have to get all freaky about it. Just blend in, nod and grin. Or they’ll take you out first.

    Report Post » thejackal  
  • Suzee
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:49pm

    Jayldd, I am praying that we will all be taken out to be with the Lord, however, when I read the book of Mormon I find some very troubling statements. I think Joseph Smith was a delusional man and the fact that he never finished his work and his son had to after he died is very troubling. I don’t think that one take the Bible and insert oneself into it without having some kind of dementia. The other problem for me is since DNA was given to human inspection by God, it disproves the claim that a group of people were actually Israelite descendants relocated in America.

    Report Post » Suzee  
    • LetUsReason
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:13am

      The belief that one knows when someone‘s work is finished and when it isn’t is dangerous work indeed. I hope you don’t base judgments of people when they die off whether or not you thought their work had been completed. Judgment is the Lord’s.

      I never knew Joseph Smith inserted himself in the Bible. He wasn’t around when it was created, so that would be a tricky task. Perhaps you mean he thought parts had specific applications to him?

      As for DNA, this one continues to puzzle me, especially since I hear it most by people who claim Christianity as the profession of faith. Assuming you carry basic Judeo-Christian beliefs, do you hold scientific “evidence” as the final say in what you will or will not believe? If it was newly discovered that scientific information came forward showing traces of Israelite DNA in an ancient Central American burial ground, would this seal the deal for you? The DNA argument is complex, but when that is someone’s stumblingblock for reading or believing the Book of Mormon, I have to wonder…

      Either way, we are all free to worship as we please, thanks to those who have gone before us. What a fabulous country we live in!

      Report Post »  
    • Jayldd
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:27am

      Don’t you think there is a reason Glenn left the Catholic church? He does not disrespect it but he is a man who constantly studies and seeks a higher truth. He was open to learning more about Christ. He did his research. You might want to. I’m not sure what the DNA argument is or how it impacts the book of mormon. We believe that the Indians are descendants from a tribe in Israel that immigrated to America. If anyone spent the time to research their DNA I think there would be ample proof that is the case. Glenn has talked about some of the artifacts that have been found in America. There are also many archeological ruins from the historical period discussed in the Book of Mormon that support our Church’s history. Don’t trust me. Read the Book of Mormon.

      Report Post »  
  • momprayn
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:35pm

    I’m with those that says “no, man can’t just by himself” — I don’t really know why they say “yes” to this one. The Bible is full of remarks about that — that we all need God and live by His commands in order to succeed, etc. The Jews begged for a “king” so they could be like the other nations, and God didn’t think that was a good idea but He relented anyway & gave them kings — we know what happened. This country was blessed by God because we based our foundation/principles on the Bible & the Founders were mostly very devout Christians. Great site: http://www.wallbuilders.com
    We’re now in decline, in my opiinion, bc of our departure and rebellion of those – so what else is new? Think God is bringing judgement upon us in hopes we will wake up, get things cleaned up, get back to Him and godly laws, etc. so He can bless us…..again.

    Report Post »  
    • BoilitDown
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 11:02pm

      without reading the book, I took the question to mean: Can man survive in a society without being ruled by a ruling class, if it with God?

      Report Post »  
  • Ducky 1
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:35pm

    Sorry to disagree………man is not capable of ruling him self. We try but mess it up every time. That is why Jesus will return and rule some day giving us true freedom. Fascinating book though.

    Report Post » Ducky 1  
    • MrButcher
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:59pm

      you lie.

      man can “rule” “himself” without suerstition and demagouges.

      its not easy.

      Report Post » MrButcher  
    • Old Truckers
      Posted on April 29, 2011 at 12:30pm

      Ducky1 did not lie! He told a truth most people do not want to hear.

      Report Post » Old Truckers  
  • MrButcher
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:21pm

    can man rule himself?

    This question is, first off, poorly worded, poorly put and very dated in its use of grammer. It harkens back to times of unchallengeable authorities and infallible monarchs that made subjects and servants of the individual by the state and religion. Updated the question should ask; “Can humanity live free.?”

    Can humanity live free?

    that is the TRUE question.

    ———————–
    it is a loaded question, to say the least.
    ————————-

    Report Post » MrButcher  
    • YellowFin
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 7:36pm

      Can humanity live free?

      Yes! But they have to do it God’s way. God is the Supreme Ruler and His Son is our appointed King.

      If someone refuses to recognize that, then they will not be successful. Deuteronomy 10:12-13

      Report Post » YellowFin  
  • cdzero
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:20pm

    Glenn:
    The bible must be wrong when it says: “O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself; it is not in man that walks to direct his steps”. Of course, the bible is not wrong and of course the answer is NO. Man has proven through the centuries that “one man has rule over another to his own hurt” (Jer. 10:23; Eccl 8:9)

    Report Post »  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:31pm

      Man cannot rule himself unless he first is ruled by God. THEN, and only then is self-rule, and thus true freedom, possible.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • MrButcher
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 11:06pm

      @Isles,

      still at it i see. good for you.

      man created god in his own image to assuage his own fears of himself.

      this is the solipsism that must be broken.

      please don’t bow down to the dictators in your mind nor the ones that actually exist.

      cheers

      Report Post » MrButcher  
  • Jude 4
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:14pm

    Can man rule himself? Not according the the all wise and infallable ruler of all creation;

    I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (Joh 15:5)

    Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
    (Ecc 7:29)

    To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Psa 14:1-3)

    Report Post » Jude 4  
    • DYNA
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 1:12am

      Jude 4,
      I think Glenn is making this distinction. There are those who are subject to and in bondage to this world. A world who’s wisdom is devilish, carnal and hostile to the things of God. And then there are those in Christ Jesus who have not been given a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power, love and self control. Having the mind of Christ,we can do all things in Christ Who strengthens us. As you wrote, apart from Him we can do nothing.

      Report Post »  
    • WhiteFang
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 4:57pm

      Didn’t this idea of ruling ourselves start in the Garden of Eden?
      Satan lied to Eve saying in so many words…you don’t need God to tell you what to do, you can rule yourself, you can decide, eat that fruit, you know you want too.

      So, Eve and then Adam ate the forbidden thing and we see the result of ruling ourselves independent of our Creator.

      Report Post » WhiteFang  
    • Old Truckers
      Posted on April 29, 2011 at 12:26pm

      The world is full of people ignoring the sovereignty of the True God and the kingship of His Son.
      They do not want His instructions found in the Bible, they want to shape God to fit their own desires.
      They even invent religions to match their ideas of what is right and wrong.
      They of course will reap what they sow, and we are seeing it now more than ever.

      Report Post » Old Truckers  
  • GadsdenGurl
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:48pm

    I sent Beck a rare book that you cannot get anymore… called Turning of the Tides. It is the chronicle of the Fabian Socialists and how they planned to use the educational system to change our country to socialism.

    Report Post » GadsdenGurl  
  • Mike Opelka
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:39pm

    If you want to see these amazing paintings in person, they populate the Harrisburg, PA State House. The Holy Experiment was initially printed in an edition of 300, most of which were sent to libraries. I believe 200 were also sent around the world. They are rare gems indeed.

    Report Post » Mike Opelka  
  • SacredHonor1776
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:34pm

    Where are the reprints?!

    Report Post »  
  • Freefromyou
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:30pm

    If only the “intellectually superior” amoung us ie Progressives would allow the rest of us remove the shackles that are our government we might have a fighting chance. The chains of oppression come in many forms, Kings, Dictators but most imprtantly Fear.

    Report Post »  
  • glennisright.com
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:30pm

    What a treaure!

    Report Post » glennisright.com  
  • let us prey
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:26pm

    I will help the helpless, but not the clueless.

    Report Post » let us prey  
    • BoilitDown
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:53pm

      The willfully clueless damn themselves and those with whom they interact.

      Report Post »  
  • NOTYERHUCKLEBERRY
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:25pm

    Would I love to get my hands on one of these.

    Report Post »  
  • Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:21pm

    Yes, we can rule ourselves, the problem is all the others who can’t think for themselves.

    Report Post » Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra  
    • BoilitDown
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:51pm

      I think there are those who naturally and instinctively know that they must rule themselves and then there are those who must be taught this most valuable lesson. Many of the problems we face today stem from those who have been taught that it is not necessary to think for and rule themselves. I also believe that public education can be shown as the cause behind their ignorance in self sufficiency. Rather they have been taught willful dependence on the ruling class.

      Report Post »  
  • jhaydeng
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:19pm

    Where would you even begin to look for this book?

    Report Post »  
    • AffirmationChick
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:54pm

      There are hundreds of rare book dealers in the world who regularly publish catalogs, as well as websites like http://www.abaa.org (Antiquarian Booksellers’ Association of America) and http://www.abebooks.com. There is actually a copy for sale for $4,500 right now — cheap enough to get one with the change in your sofa!

      Report Post »  
  • miles from nowhere
    Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:18pm

    This one is way over my head!

    Report Post »  
    • MODEL82A1
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:41pm

      Glenn Beck actively went searching for a church after he hit bottom as an addict (he WAS NOT a Christian before that). The fact that he chose the Mormon, LDS Church, speaks volumes to me about his thought and judgment process.

      Report Post » MODEL82A1  
    • YouGottaProblemWithThat
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:42pm

      Now now now Glenn, there you’ve gone and done it again, bringing God into the whole thing, Don’t you know that Larry says Jesus is a socialist? Don’t you know that Larry knows more about God than you do? Glenn, you had better stop talking about God on TV, especially on FOX, because Larry doesn’t like conservatives talking about God. You saw how Larry talked to Franklin and to Rush didn’t you?

      Report Post » YouGottaProblemWithThat  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:44pm

      The Holy Bible continues to be the only reference we need, everything else is trivial.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • MEESHEL
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 9:51pm

      I personally saw those paintings as a child (ok… 20ish), but the impression from then to now is so much different. I thought I was reasonably well read… but I need to learn more and right now.

      Report Post »  
    • banjarmon
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:04pm

      Neat book

      Report Post » banjarmon  
    • Stoic one
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:12pm

      Maybe Glenn can reprint it????

      Report Post » Stoic one  
    • Professional Infidel
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:15pm

      I can rule myself. Only me. I won’t let myself be ruled by another. it must work i’m still on the outside.

      Report Post »  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:18pm

      Make God laugh by telling him YOUR plans.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • Jayldd
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:29pm

      This is an interesting book. However I strongly encourage you all to read the book of mormon. Glenn has talked about his LDS faith some and I expect him to do so more in the future but I think it is very important for every conservative to read the book of mormon before making any final judgments on Mitt Romney. He is the man to lead this Country. The book of mormon is another testimony of Jesus Christ and simply adds to the truths in the Holy Bible. For the good of this Country and for your own personal good I hope you will at least read the book of mormon with an open heart. As Christians we all need to come together and respect each other and get behind the right candidate.

      Report Post »  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 10:29pm

      The Greatest Commandment is to Love the Lord our God with all of your Heart, all of your Soul, and all of your Strength. 2nd, Love your neighbor as much as you do yourself. The Holy Bible has a great deal to say about being oriented to the needs of others. Therefore, reject the humanistic self-focused models.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • Big Tuna
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 11:27pm

      Actually Glenn was Catholic before joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

      Report Post »  
    • LetUsReason
      Posted on April 27, 2011 at 11:34pm

      Model, I hope it does speak volumes about his judgment to you. You watch Glenn, I presume. I watch Glenn, and it seems most here watch and/or listen to Glenn regularly. Is he faking his Christian views? No, I don’t think so. Is his conviction of Christ and His saving grace insincere? Again, I don’t think so. So, if as you claim Glenn had no inclination to Christianity before his joining the LDS Church, then wouldn’t that also “speak volumes” to what the LDS (Mormon) Church teaches and believes? Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles?? I would urge everyone to not get caught up in the ever so popular “hate Mormons” bandwagon.

      And Poverty, the faith v. works argument causes rage and anger like no other among those who misunderstand it, but those who persist in believing that Mormons believe salvation comes through works simply do not understand LDS theology and obviously have never read the Book of Mormon. A sermon entitled “What Think Ye of Salvation By Grace?” by Bruce McConkie clearly lays out the argument as it is believed in this particular faith. If you continue to believe that works are held in higher regard than the saving blood of Christ, then I have to assume that you are grossly ignorant on the topic. A second quick read is Believing Christ, a book written by an LDS author. There are many sources, but the Bible and Book of Mormon can work together is the best source of knowledge on Christ and His gospel. I would encourage any and all who truly seek truth (and aren’t simply looking to gratify their vain ambitions) to study the message contained therein.

      Report Post »  
    • hillbillyinny
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:05am

      @ MODEL82A1

      Actually, if you read Glenn’s story as to how they chose becoming LDS, you will find that his girls (two older girls) particularly liked the church during their church seeking time. I believe that his wife is much more active within the church, and that Glenn has been strongly influenced by the evangelical protestents with whom he rubs elbows such as David Barton and others. I do believe Glenn completely understands having a personal relationship with God, the sacrifice of God’s Son Jesus for the payment of our sins, that he understands Eternal Life based on the Resurrection of Jesus and that in this world Christians will be known by the “fruit” they produce. These beliefs are central to Christian Faith, do not need to be “enhanced” by additional teachings and are the message of Salvation for a life dedicated for God’s work. May God guide him in his journey as he witnesses to others.

      Report Post »  
    • TheGreyPiper
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:07am

      Thank you, Captain Non Sequiter.

      Report Post » TheGreyPiper  
    • tketterer
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:34am

      jayldd……Revelations 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone ADDS anything to them, God will add to him the plagues in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are decsribed in this book…………………PLEASE read something other than what you are told to read by the authorities. Why first revelation change 3 times? Why wait so long to mention it? Why join another Christian denomination before writing the bom if it is the only true religion? Why NEVER while alive bring the palygamy revelation to the masses? God was flesh and not the only True God? Know the history of this cult and turn back to Jesus of the Bible before it is too late. i pray for you.

      Report Post »  
    • LetUsReason
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:41am

      Hillbillyinny, you make some good comments. However, I‘ve noticed a popular trend in some to suppose that Glenn isn’t a real Mormon. He’s a watered-down version and his wife and kids make him go….or something of that sort. I think this is simply a matter of people trying to harmonize their knowledge that Glenn is LDS with the observation that he believes in Christ, His gospel, His salvation, etc….an odd fact for those who still hold to the notion that Mormons are somehow not Christian.

      It is clear to those who are LDS, and who watch and listen to him regularly, that although his kids surely had an impact on his conversion process, Glenn is definitely legit. He will many times “take the edge off”, if you will, in order to be more viewer friendly, but that is the extent of it. His associate Pat Gray is also LDS, as are many of his closest friends and mentors (Huntsman Sr, for one). Many times I have noticed a phrase or comment here or there that was a quote from the Book of Mormon, but he often will leave it unquoted. It simply becomes part of his beliefs, and he does not feel the need to quote every single line that isn’t originally his, whether that be a Book of Mormon writer or a past US president, etc. He frequently mentions tithing and other doctrines that he came to understand since joining the church. He rubs shoulders with many Evangelicals and others, which is great. The fact that he is good at building bridges with a variety of people should not be confused in any way with the idea that he does not sincerely stand by the faith he has chosen to adopt.

      Report Post »  
    • LetUsReason
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:54am

      TKETTERER, there is no need to make your posts sound frantic. We’re all adults here. Revelation 22:18-19 is the most used and most (purposefully?) misunderstood scripture when it comes to figuring out a reason why NOT to read the Book of Mormon. Deuteronomy 4:2 is nearly identical to the scripture in Revelation, but you wouldn’t discount all scripture past the Torah would you? John was making the statement as it pertained to his book (Revelation) that he was commanded to write. Meaning, “Don‘t add or detract from the revelation as I’ve laid it out here.” It is widely believed by scholars that his own testament of Christ was written after Revelation, which if your interpretation is correct, would nullify it as scripture. Additionally, many of the Pauline epistles are chronologically newer than is Revelation. The Bible is not compiled chronologically. To say that John was stating that after he received command to record his revelation from God, it would be blasphemous to record any further revelation is a strange view of the Gospel of Christ.

      Report Post »  
    • ruben
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 12:59am

      Poverty isn’t Cool:

      How did you come to the conclusion that the Bible is the only reference we need?

      Is it something that a religious figure told you? Is it something you’ve learned through personal experience? Is it something that God himself told you? Is it something you learned by reading the book itself? Is it knowledge you gained from the Holy Ghost?

      Report Post »  
    • tketterer
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 1:04am

      letusreason…You want frantic? Watching a dear friends daughter while vulnerable be converted by dating into this cult. They did exactly as they have done for centuries by giving the milk and not the meat. By telling her not to listen or read anything that she was not told to read. They came and stole her from her mother and destroyed the family. I have absolutely no sympathy for any mormon who believes anything written by josmith or young or any of the others who claime revelation from your god. You all are not christians and I will do everything I can to bring you back to Jesus of the Bible so that you truly will go to the one true heaven (although you won’t get your spiritual polygamist wives or produce your spirit babies that you can god over on you planet.) I pray for you as well.

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    • LetUsReason
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 1:19am

      letusreason…You want frantic? Watching a dear friends daughter while vulnerable be converted by dating into this cult. They did exactly as they have done for centuries by giving the milk and not the meat. By telling her not to listen or read anything that she was not told to read. They came and stole her from her mother and destroyed the family. I have absolutely no sympathy for any mormon who believes anything written by josmith or young or any of the others who claime revelation from your god. You all are not christians and I will do everything I can to bring you back to Jesus of the Bible so that you truly will go to the one true heaven (although you won’t get your spiritual polygamist wives or produce your spirit babies that you can god over on you planet.) I pray for you as well.

      TKETTERER….Ah, it seems that you carry some personal angst into this thread. If the Mormon missionaries came to your friend and forced her from her mother’s bosom, ransacked her home, and made her bow down to idols, then I offer my sincerest apologies. The LDS Church promotes the welfare and sanctity of the family, and it is not the intent to offend other members of the family through one’s personal decision to follow Christ as they deem right. Would you prefer that people did not have the choice to select their own faith? Again, I’m not here to stir things up, but your post is nothing more than an irrational, emotional rant.

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    • BetterDays
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 1:19am

      It seems to me a good thing that a man rule his own self. To stand honest, straightforwards, and with GOD his answers too in judgement. Self control, integrity, peacefulness and praiseworthy, these are lofty goals to achieve, humility a required act. once lost a reputation is most difficult to regain, and trust a thing seldom renewed. for me, no matter the eyes upon me of man, it’s GOD I seek first to please and to render my actions an honor unto HIM who created me. but retched man am I that does the thing I despise and does not the things I desire, Oh who shall save me and remake me, none save the Son of GOD. If you desire wisdom, inquire of GOD it shall come to you, one step at a time, unfolding before you like a flower never fading.
      As for me and my house WE shall serve the Lord
      What does the Lord require of a man? Do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly before the Lord.

      Thanks Jesus, I get it!

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    • LetUsReason
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 1:23am

      By the way, I find it curious that you never addressed my rebuttal to your claim in Revelation. In all seriousness, I’d be interested to hear that argument in more depth because whenever someone throws that one out there, they switch to something new like polygamy whenever they discover that it actually doesn’t hold water.

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    • tketterer
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 2:21am

      letsreason……And your response to my bringing up polygamy is again the standard mormon response to bringing up polygamy, yet it IS the most astounding revelation of the false prophet jsmith. So why keep it from the masses? Why did it take Brigham young thinking it was safe to bring it up once in utah? Yes false prophet, because if you believe as you state that the quote from revelations about not altering the book, your bro jojo smith changed/reduced it 85 times in the jojo smith translation of the kjv making him false prophet.

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    • Jayldd
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 2:44am

      TKETTERER

      It is not reasonable to think we can understand God’s plan fully here on earth. You may not understand polygamy and I don’t fully understand it either. I know at one time the LDS Church practiced polygamy and for whatever reason the Lord revealed that it should no longer be practiced here on earth. I don‘t know the mystery of God’s plan. Although it is no longer practiced here on earth, we believe that polygamy will be practiced in the highest degree of heaven when we leave this world. You can make fun of things you don’t understand but instead of making fun why not take the time to educate yourself and read the Book of Mormon. It can’t hurt and it just might change your life.

      Report Post »  
    • LetUsReason
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 3:23am

      TKETTERER….I have no problem addressing polygamy if that is the issue at hand. My point is that rather than settle one issue, you find it easier to quickly move on to something unrelated.

      Polygamy was a biblical practice. That’s not in dispute. Would I like to practice it? No. Was it practiced by prophets in the Bible? Yes. Does that make you uncomfortable to know that people who you (I’m assuming) regard as prophets of God had multiple wives? I speak of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and others. David and Solomon also were given many wives by the Lord, and it wasn‘t until they took for themselves what wasn’t given of God that it became an issue. So, your real question then must be, was Joseph Smith a real prophet? That‘s the real issue because we’ve already established that polygamy (which our ethnocentric view doesn’t condone) has, according to written history, been not only acceptable to God, but at times commanded.

      You also made a half-effort attempt at settling the Revelation issue, but rather than breaking it down logically for me, you just throw out insults which aren’t helpful. “your bro jojo smith”? Is this a junior high school kid that I’m working with here? It is clear that you don‘t really care about the doctrines or principles we’re discussing, and your arguments are quickly dissolving into nonsense. Regardless, I’ll still address your last argument about the “changing” 85 times. Honestly, I don’t know the number, but it was probably more than that. These “changes” are actually revisions of how the text was originally or to enhance its true meaning lost by translation. If your concern is about adding to or taking away, then your beef isn’t with Joseph Smith, since he is simply putting back that which was already taken away. But since the original concern wasn’t about Biblical corrections to translation, but rather the authenticity of the Book of Mormon as it relates to the scripture in Revelation, you‘ve digressed once again and still haven’t addressed the original rebuttal.

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    • GETLIFE
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 7:14am

      JAYLDD, sorry, but I could’t disagree more. To each his holy books. The Constitution, although steeped in Christain ideals, does not hold one religion above the other, but protects individual religion as long as it is under the law. One’s professed religion is not a guarantee of character. The Constitution protects freedom of religion. A free religion does not necessarily support the Constitution.

      Report Post » GETLIFE  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 7:39am

      @RUBEN Jesus defined poverty, it isn’t cool, it’s dispicabke

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • Libertyluvnmomma
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 8:02am

      LetUsreason-
      how about commenting on the article and not living out life in the blogosphere. I know how much time can get spent keyboard commanding the intellect pants off everyone but, from your written words your time should be more valuable.
      We have disagreed on the cultish nature of LDS before.
      The Bible is the very breathe of our Lord no other book is required.
      `

      Report Post » Libertyluvnmomma  
    • Libertyluvnmomma
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 8:12am

      You also said essentially without Joseph Smith the Word of God and His Holy Spirit will be unable to carry out His work.
      Your twisting of scripture and ‘theology” make me nervous because there are a lot of people like you.
      If you are baptized by the Holy Spirit your eyes will see differently.

      Report Post » Libertyluvnmomma  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 8:44am

      @RUBEN – to be in poverty is despicable.

      I happen to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. He leads me our father creator. Jesus Christ has never changed, what he has taught is still applicable today. Believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God our creator.  Believe what he has taught. Then you’ll believe that he will be victorious in the final analysis.  If that faith isn’t present, you’ll be swept along with the world system.

      By the way, the book of Mormons manipulate the truths of the Holy Bible.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • mill
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 9:08am

      NO… When man gets power he goes crazy…he wants to reach out and “manage” the lives of others. We have had centuries to perfect our desire to rule others…
      We see it in religions and politics…do as I say, not as I do…or…wait a minute while I change the long set writings/rules to suit my needs to rule you…or….lets make a law for the stupid little people/sheep that we ‘ll not follow personally.

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    • Charbet
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 9:20am

      Hey Model! Or should I say George? I have seen your posts all over this site. I laugh and laugh each time I read them! I think you missed your exit to Huff-po? :-P

      Report Post » Charbet  
    • its_time_to_arrest_our_government
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 10:33am

      Natural born citizens, Political Elites, Main Stream Media, Obama’s eligibility
      Obama has declared war on the Constitution
      Share | | (4) Comments | Subscribe | Print friendly | Contact Us
      – Lawrence Sellin Thursday, April 28, 2011
      It is now the patriotic duty of individual states to rescue the United States.

      Before the 2012 election, we must push our state legislatures to pass laws requiring Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates to prove that they are natural born citizens i.e. born in the United States, of citizen parents at the time of birth, in order for them to appear on the state ballot.

      By publicly releasing his long-form birth certificate, Obama has officially announced that he is not a natural born citizen and is arrogantly challenging the legitimacy of the Constitution.

      Not surprisingly, the political elites and the main stream media (MSM) seemed unanimously elated after the release of his alleged long-form Certificate of Live Birth.

      I imagine that they all had tingles running up their legs.

      Both the Republicans and Democrats in Washington, D.C. insist that we should put the issue of Obama’s eligibility behind us, so they may focus on the “more serious” issues facing the country.

      First, there is no more important issue for the country than the integrity of the Constitution. Without it, the federal government is null and void and the rule of law is undermined.

      Second, the political elites want to move on because they have been complicit in a flagrant contravention of the Constitution, the Founders intent and judicial precedence by substituting political fiat for the legal processes involved in amending the Constitution.

      The political elites and the MSM have always known that they were promoting an infringement of the Constitution by protecting Obama.

      Facts are stubborn things.

      For the first time in US history, an individual, who is not a natural born citizen, was knowingly elected President of the United States.

      Sadly, I do not remember a time when there has been such a collection of fools and scoundrels populating the federal government and the MSM as there has been in recent years.

      In my opinion, it is useless to petition Congress about Obama’s ineligibility. They have dishonored their oaths of office to support and defend the Constitution. They are frightened and they will do nothing because they all share the blame for the Constitutional crisis in which we now find ourselves.

      Article II, Section I of the Constitution requires that a person be a natural born citizen to be eligible for the Presidency.

      The Constitution does not say “citizen”, but specifically combines the legal concepts of jus soli (right of the soil) and of citizen parents, jus sanguinis (right of blood). It was intentionally designed by the Framers to prevent a President from having dual allegiance.

      The authors of the Constitution no doubt based their understanding of the term “natural

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 11:38am

      The author of the books was a devote Socialist. These books are proof of the dishonesty of Beck’s litmus tests for patriotism. Beck is a fraud, following the teachings of a fraud, a fraud so etreme in his views that the LDS distanted themselves from him.

      Report Post »  
    • DogTags
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 2:10pm

      Man can only rule himself if he has an inner moral restraint. The only source for that inner moral restraint is a belief in God. Secular humanists, atheists, agnostics are incapable of governing themselves because their morality is based on a subjective, relativistic feeling, which always devolves into morality by majority or might equals right. Take away the dominant Christian influence in the nation and you get flash mobs, abortion on demand, homosexual marriage, high crime rates, worship of the green planet, high poverty rate, anarchy that leads to tyranny that leads to anarchy that leads to tyranny…..

      Report Post »  
    • LetUsReason
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 2:29pm

      @LIBERTYLUVNMAMA

      Yes, we’ve disagreed before. I usually do comment on the article, and I don’t use the blaze as my platform to promote my faith. If you look at my first comment, I was defending Glenn and his faith from someone who posted something unrelated to the article. It wasn’t an out-of-the-blue plug for Mormonism as you like to suggest. If someone spreads hate and lies about a topic for which I know better, than it is my prerogative to set the record straight. I’m sorry if that offends you.

      I don’t appreciate you putting words in my mouth, either. “You also said essentially without Joseph Smith the Word of God and His Holy Spirit will be unable to carry out His work.” I neither said this, nor implied this, nor is this what I believe. You then go on to say, “Your twisting of scripture and ‘theology” make me nervous because there are a lot of people like you. If you are baptized by the Holy Spirit your eyes will see differently.” If the faith of another makes you nervous, then you are very insecure in your own faith and need much introspection. Nothing was twisted, and you offer zero examples of such.

      As far as the Bible being the very “breath of God”….don’t let your enthusiasm for Christianity degrade into mysticism. The Bible wasn’t written by God, it was written by men and translated, sifted through, and eventually compiled by men; albeit, inspired men (mostly), but fallible men. Is the Bible the Word of God? Of course. It leads people to Christ, who is the only Way to salvation. But to say that the Bible is a perfect book in its current state is simply ignorance. The Song of Solomon was slipped into the mix, even though it is uninspired and should have been relegated probably to the Apocrypha. The Book of Revelation was extremely close to not being included in the canon. Scholars and men of theology at the time could not agree on it. There are many epistles that Paul (and likely others) wrote, which were lost and hence not included. We find references made to them in the New Testament. Gross translation errors can be found, in addition to inconsistencies, and even the name of Shakespeare tossed in to Psalms by his friend King James. I love the Bible and value it as a treasure among books, so don’t misunderstand my purpose here. I find it amusing…hmm…perhaps troubling is a better word….that so many “mainstream Christians” grit their teeth and hold to it obstinately as some kind of pristine record given directly from God to the printing press. That ideology feels safe to them, so when the idea of continuing revelation and an open canon are presented, these people recoil in fear and suspicion. The Bible contains the Word of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ, but you would understand it in much greater depth when used in complement to the Book of Mormon.

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    • ruben
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 2:43pm

      @Poverty:

      I don’t quite understand how what you wrote answers the questions I posed.

      Is it your claim that because you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, the Bible is the only reference that is necessary? If so, why do you draw that conclusion?

      Is it your claim that because Jesus Christ our Father Creator leads you, the Bible is the only reference that is necessary? If so, why do you draw that conclusion?

      Is it your conclusion that because Jesus Christ has never changed, the Bible is the only reference that is needed? If so, why do you draw that conclusion?

      Is it your conclusion that because what Jesus taught is still applicable today, the Bible is the only reference that is needed? If so, why do you draw that conclusion?

      And I understand that it is your claim that I need to believe what Jesus Christ taught and that I lack faith in Jesus Christ’s teachings. Is that what leads you to the conclusion that the Bible is the only reference necessary? If so, why?

      Is it your conclusion that because the Book of Mormon manipulates truth, the Bible is the only reference necessary? If so, why?

      Report Post »  
    • WhiteFang
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 4:25pm

      If we look at the over 6000 years of recorded history, have we ever seen a successful example of any human ruling himself, or others?
      To be successful at ruling ourselves would require a long lasting and satisfying life, with no regrets and consequences over past errors of judgment and sins committed.

      “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step. 24 Correct me, O Jehovah, however with judgment; not in your anger, that you may not reduce me to nothing.” – Jeremiah 10:23-24

      Report Post » WhiteFang  
    • proliance
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 5:09pm

      @Ruben: You’re trying to argue against circular reasoning. Sola scriptura is a paradox that says there is no source of religious knowledge but the Bible. However, the Bible doesn’t say that, so that information must come from somewhere else. So that source cannot be believed.

      Wait… what?

      Report Post » proliance  
    • flintfireforge49
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 10:00pm

      JAYLDO: The Book of Mormon is anything BUT a second testimony to Jesus Christ. It is, to be blunt, a fraud. Testimony to that effect, along with the character of Joseph Smith Jr. and his entire family, gathered from contemporary sources by E.D. Howe verify this beyond doubt. Solomon Spaulding was plegiarised by Smith over a decade after Spaulding’s death, so he couldn’t contest it. But verified testimony as to the content of Spaulding’s work, right down to names and literary devices, that are found word for word in the Book of Mormon, has also been gathered and made public. Further, a look at Smith’s own accounts have him originally saying that Moroni gave him the supposed plates, was later said by Smith to be Nephi giving them, then switched back again to Moroni. Smith couldn’t even get his plegiarism from the Bible itself set straight. Then too, if Smith was a 19th century American from New York, how is it his supposed translation of an alleged ancient book comes out sounding like King James’ English from 1611? I could go on, but I’ll stop with this: there is no archeological, anthropological, geological, genetic, or any kind of scientific proof that the cities, animals, and weaponry, or even the Indians’ supposed descent from transplanted Jewish people, in existence. No iron or steel weapons, no remains of over two million people, no chickens or elephants, no silk, nothing. One can call Mormonism a religion, but it has nothing to do with Jesus Christ other than trying to assume His Name to legitimize itself.

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    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on April 28, 2011 at 11:07pm

      @Ruben, I relate to God by grace. The more you see what Christ has done for you, thats going to change you and grow you. That only comes by reading the Holy Bible and reflect on how it applies in your life. May your curiosity in my response be redirected and seek counsel from the Lord our Savior Jesus Christ, son of God our father.

      Should you decide to deny Him, you’ll live in poverty as defined by Christ.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • ruben
      Posted on April 29, 2011 at 1:12am

      @Poverty,

      How did you come to the conclusion that you can only relate to God by grace by reading the Bible and reflecting on how it applies in your life? How did you come to the conclusion that you can only see what Christ has done for you by reading the Bible and reflecting on how it applies in your life? How did you come to the conclusion that you can only be changed and grown by Christ by reading the Bible and reflecting on how it applies in your life?

      Your invitation that I redirect my inquiry to the Lord would be consistent with the teaching of James if I had found myself lacking in wisdom. However, I am inquiring of you of your knowledge and your personal experience. Accordingly, the questions are more appropriately directed to you. There are plenty of other matters in regard to which it is appropriate to seek knowledge directly from the Lord.

      Report Post »  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on April 29, 2011 at 9:13am

      RUBEN – Your concerns have been addressed. My testimony won’t be revealed for your mockery. The Bible is filled with the breath of God. It’s been concluded that from His words we can live an extraordinary life. Here and eternally. Therefore seek Him first.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • ruben
      Posted on April 29, 2011 at 10:38am

      @Poverty:

      How can you say that my questions have been addressed when you haven’t answered my questions? How can you conclude that I am going to mock your testimony? Where, in anything that I wrote, did I mock your testimony? Where, in anything that I wrote, did I mock you in any other way? Where, in anything that I wrote, did I write something that leads you to conclude that I will mock your testimony? Do you conclude that because I am asking you to identify the source of your knowledge that I am mocking your testimony? If so, why?

      Who is denying that the Bible is the word of God? Not me.

      Who is denying that we can live an extraordinary life by holding to the word of God? Not me.

      Do you conclude that because I’m asking you questions, I am necessarily not seeking the Lord? If so, why do you draw that conclusion?

      Report Post »  
    • rose-ellen
      Posted on April 29, 2011 at 10:48am

      Isn’t there an anger named MORONI?That name tells me that maybe Mormonism started with Mr.Smith in a bar having a drink with a stanger and getting into a dicussion about religion and Mr.Smith saying that religion is the product of deluded,superstitious and brainwahed people while his partner believed that Christianity was true.Maybe then he made a bet with the guy at the bar that he could start a religion because people are so gullibe they can be manipulated to believe anything [no matter how moronic].Hence he set out to prove his point and started his religion and as a joke between himself and the guy at the bar he made the bet with,named the angel Moroni.[How else to explain the name Moroni for an angel sent by God with a message that surpasses the Good News of Jesus Christ?

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