Bill Bennett Excoriates Pastor Who Called Mormonism a ‘Cult’
- Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:07pm by
Madeleine Morgenstern
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Radio host Bill Bennett delivered a sharp rebuke Saturday to the pastor who said Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney belongs to a “cult” because he is Mormon.
Speaking at the Values Voter Summit in Washington, D.C. shortly before Romney himself took the stage, Bennett, a former Reagan administration official, exhorted the audience: “Do not give voice to bigotry.”
“I’m thinking of the words of Mr. Jeffress, Pastor Jeffress,” Bennett said adding, “You stepped on and obscured the words of Perry and Santorum and Cain and Bachmann and everyone else who has spoken here. You did Rick Perry no good sir, in what you had to say.”
Inserting some levity, Bennett joked that in the debate between Mormons and evangelical Christians, he’s a Catholic and “was there first.”
“I forgive you all in the name of the Father,” Bennett said to some laughter.
Robert Jeffress, a prominent Southern Baptist leader and major supporter of presidential contender Rick Perry, made his inflammatory comments after introducing the Texas governor at the same event the day before.
“Rick Perry’s a Christian. He’s an evangelical Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ,” Jeffress said Friday. “Mitt Romney’s a good moral person, but he’s not a Christian. Mormonism is not Christianity. It has always been considered a cult by the mainstream of Christianity.”
Following Jeffress’ comments, a Perry spokesman said, “The governor does not believe Mormonism is a cult.” Perry himself said he disagreed with the pastor’s remarks at an Iowa appearance later on Friday.
Romney did not directly address Jeffress’ comments or any of the religion controversy in his remarks, saying only when he came on stage: “Speaking of hitting it out of the park, how about that Bill Bennett?” — a perceived dig at Perry, who said Jeffress “really knocked it out of the park” when he took the stage Friday.
Romney did say that “poisonous language” hurts the conservative cause, but it in reference to Bryan Fischer, a member of the American Family Association who has made controversial comments about Islam, homosexuality and the Mormon faith, scheduled to speak after the candidate.
“We should remember that decency and civility are values too,” Romney said. “One of the speakers who will follow me today, has crossed that line. Poisonous language does not advance our cause. It has never softened a single heart nor changed a single mind.”
(h/t Freedom’s Lighthouse)
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Comments (576)
bombs.girl
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:03pmIs it based on the blood of Jesus getting you right with God the Father and the Spirit living in you? Then and only then it’s right.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:22pmYup. That’s what Christianity based upon.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:37pmYes. It is as well as baptism and sacrement and the Father, the,Son, and the Holy Ghost. Hard to beliebe there is still such bigotry towards Latter Day Saint (Mormons) even to this day when even up until there was an extermination order on the law books in Missouri allowing you to shoot one on sight until the 1970′s.
Not having a paid clergy did not go over well at the time the Faith was introduced (reintroduced according to the Faith by God else it would not have been authentic through an uneducated boy) which I can certainly see how it would make many other Church leaders say some spiteful things whether what they or that young boy was saying was true and from God or not.
This is just what the Lefty Libgressicons want is to give them future fighting points destroying ourselves so they do not have to instead of us not properly vetting our conservative candidates and then sidetracking them with nonsense like is being done with Herman Cain. Do not fall for this trap. MAIN STREAM MEDIA is FULLY compliant with us cannibalizing our candidates and only too glad to help.
Report Post »mad_hatter
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:39pmAnd that is what Mormonism or the LDS faith is based on… good to have that cleared up.
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:43pmYou didn’t even spew your hate with truth! Ask your pastor to give you an updated talking points sheet.
Until then, do your homework: http://mormon.org/humanitarian...
Who has the world’s largest welfare program? The true love of Christ.
Report Post »Gerrymanderer
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:51pmBill’s right. Mormons are a cult. Blasphemous. How could an angel have visited Smith at Palmyra, NY? Hocus Pocus. The true church is headquartered in Rome, Italy at the site of where St. Peter died. Period dot the end.
Pappypatriot
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:06pmThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is far from a cult. One of the only church’s that bear the name of Jesus Christ in their official name. Christ’s church must be a missionary church and The LDS have sent well over 1,000,000 full time missionaries throughout the entire world. It is founded upon apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone. Yes their must be a living prophet or AMOS 3:7 would make no sense Surely the Lord God would do nothing if he did not reveal his secret onto his servants the Prophets. The Book of Mormon is sacred scripture just like the Bible and John 21:25 even says that the Bible in itself is not a complete record of the works of Jesus Christ. The warning given in Revelations 22: 19-20 pertains only to the Book of Revelations as it very clearly states. A similar warning can be found in Deut 4:2 so using those that use this argument against the Book of Mormon using their logic or belief an sincere seeker of truth would conclude that every book after Deuteronomy must be false, God forbid!
Listen I am not taking away from any other church in proclaiming that. I believe any church if it teaches that Jesus Christ is the son of God and that through his atonement all mankind can be saved is a good church.
I just find it very interesting that Perry had no idea what the pastor was going to say. That would be very ill preparation and sloppiness on the part of the Perry team. He already knew this pastor was anti-Mormon.
Report Post »ccr
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:07pmGlad to see the Blaze post this. I didn’t see the original bigoted statement or article about Jeffress post words here, but am grateful to see this.
I‘m hoping to see Beck’s message posted here, too. I caught the last part of it but heard he stood with courage at the beginning.
Enough with Christian dissecting. MORE with Christian ACTIONS and walk.
If we want God to Bless America, we need to be a moral and religious people. That does NOT “crown” evangelicals as THE Christian authority on the earth.
We NEED more Christian walk……..and less talk.
Report Post »Pappypatriot
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:09pmIf you would like to express your opinion to the Pastor here is the number to his church. 214-969-0111 Baptist Church of Dallas.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:11pmGerry. You do not want a Bible thumping contest here and neither does anyone else. I stated some core beliefs of “Mormonism” never attacking another one. THAT IS ROMNEY’S POINT! Nevermind. You must be another paid troll.
Besides John the Revelator was was still alive and writing revelation later known as the Book of Revelations when Peter was killed. In my humble OPINION, lineage to the Apostles and then Jesus should have gone through him, even in exile on Patmos but historically and apparently did not. Anyway that is my opinion, not bashing or “thumping”.
It is atill safe to say Mormons are Christians regardless of any of your words, Gerry.
Report Post »ZeitgeistBuster
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:13pmGlad to see we have some heavyweights who are not afraid of speaking out.
@ Gerrymanderer, sorry but your comments about Rome are an old attempt to limit God and put him in a box. The True Church is a Spiritual Organism that is made up of people that God DIRECTLY CALLS HIMSELF and gives a portion of his Spirit to.
Anyone who has God’s spirit in them is part of the ecclesia (the called out ones — the “church”), anyone without his spirit is not part of the church — EVEN IF HIS BEHIND HAS BEEN WARMING A PEW AT CHURCH, that is not what matters.
Organizations of MEN cannot define the TRUE CHURCH.
Report Post »kralspaces
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:42pmMakes no difference to me but I found this interesting: It’s about the Bible vs the Book of Morman based on historical events: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtq62XQ4jw&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Politically, Obama will exploit this topic now that it has becaome a news item in the campaign.
HankScram
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:51pmMormons will only talk about Jesus here. They refuse to acknowledge their beliefs. So Mormons – be honest – were you taught a secret handshake to use after life on earth? Do explain. Do you have a secret name? Have you read about the Egyptian funeral pyre Joseph smith used to translate the book of Abraham? Go to Wikipedia. It’s a hoot.
Mark Tripp
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:01pmHank? Scram…..
Wiki? Really? You are going to quote Wiki as if they get it right over there.
Every time you try this stuff you end up looking more and more like a jackass…. please stop, its painful to watch.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:06pmHank;
As far as temple ceremonies go, I won’t vulgarize that which is sacred. Such are two polar opposites. As far as the Book of Abraham goes, why do you repeat that which was already answered to you on more than one occasion?
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:16pmHank. Do explain. Do trolls bathe? You are not speaking of your personal hygeine.
The whole idea was planted to subvert the FACT that Mormons are Christians. There have been Christians and Jews throughout Egypt’s history. Try wiki… It’s a blast. Why not try uniting for the common Anti-chaos movement instead of acting like the troll under the bridge on an ipad. Mormons are Christians and wiki isn’t needed to know that. I quote from the First Article of Faith: “We believe in God, the Eternal Father,and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.”
Yep. It’s Christian. I can only show you the path. But you must walk the path. More or less quoting Morpheus there. Anyway, Christian. Try to remember that LDS or Mormons are Christians, too, for future reference and if wiki tells you otherwise, remember there have been many many corrections made by users of wiki and absolutely fallible. Especially considering that anti-Mormon propagandists can make changes there, too. Propaganda is meant to be twisted and always has an agenda.
Report Post »JustTheFactsPlease
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:21pmMormonism is a cult. absolutely no other way to say it. So… anyone who thinks the TRUTH HAS NO AGENDA, would be able to determine that as well.
NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:32pmJustthefactsplease. Please try a little harder to portray the facts. Mormons are a Christian Church, too. END OF LINE.
Report Post »HankScram
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:37pmDarren refuses to discuss the secret name or secret handshake to get into heaven that he was taught in the temple. What other beliefs do Mormons try to hide? They just talk about Jesus and pretend their other beliefs are too “sacred” to discuss. The truth always comes to light. That’s why Mormons are leaving the Mormon church in droves. Though the Mormon church continues to count those whO left and lie about it’s membership numbers to look good in the eyes of men. How pitiful and in-Christ like.
Report Post »Tired of Code Names
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:54pm@pappypatriot.
You take the verse from John 21:25 out of context in that one. John simply was stating in the rest of the sentence that Jesus did so much more on earth that it was impossible to compile it all.
With that said, Why are folks of similar moral conviction arguing religeon when this site is dedicated to getting those who agree on common moral conviction to lock arms and do what is necessary to save this country. Beck gets it just like the founding fathers. They had MANY theological disputes, but, in the end found commond ground on moral character. I am Missouri Synond Lutheran. Martin Luther back in the 1500′s was not happy with the catholic church and was a Priest in that church. He pointed out things he thought were wrong. The 95 thesis he nailed to the door. But, he was never political. Later in his life he wrote “On Jews and their Lies”. The conservative Lutheran Churches have denounced those writings. Yes, Martin Luther was a great man, but, not a prophet. He simply pointed out a very convincing interpretation of the Bible. I worship Jesus Christ in my way as a Lutheran. I may be wrong. I don’t despise the Catholics nor the Baptists etc. Martin Luther was firmly convinced the Jews were missing the point and that‘s mostly why he wrote those words that he’d likely now prefer to take back. But, we are not arguing theology. We are common morally and should keep it to that conversation.
Report Post »Pappypatriot
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:35pm@TIRED OF CODE NAMES, Even the world itself could not contain the books that “Should” not could be written. I am not seeing how I took it out of context, plain as day straight from the Bible.
Report Post »ccr
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 8:08pmYou know what the POINT of this whole situation is???
The point is: This is a POLITICAL RACE not a RELIGIOUS tryout, audition (or whatever they are called) for a preacher.
The choice of one’s RELIGION is not to be used as a litmus test for POLITICAL OFFICE. ARTICLE VI of the CONSTITUTION The Constitution DOES respect religion. A founder of our great country said rightly that the Constitution was written for a moral and religious people, so obviously being religious IS important.
RESPECT for Article VI is extremely important for honest men and women who LOVE AMERICA.
This is a POLITICAL contest. It is NOT a religious audition or conference!
Report Post »HankScram
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 9:59pm@Darren,
You won’t talk about your secret name and handshake because it is “sacred” but you will talk about Jesus. Jesus is sacred not a secret handshake.
Report Post »HankScram
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 12:02amWill Romey be sworn in on a Christian bible? Or the Mormon bible that has all of the footnotes referencing the book of Mormon?
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 12:20amHank… It would be a swearing in on the King James Version of the Bible to answer you question as that is the one Mormons use. It is some of the scripture used. Since you are apparently confused about what the BoM has perhaps we should arrange for a couple of missionaries to bring you one and share it with you…giving, yes giving you one at no cost whatsoever so you could hold and honestly say you have opened one for the first time. You have said a lot of prejudicial things here so we need to move you on to postjudicial after you are exposed to and scrutinize the information you profess to know so well.
Report Post »HankScram
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 12:44amBut does your version of the King James Bible have notes referencing the book of Mormon? Can you answer honestly?
I read BoM. It’s not biblical.
Report Post »youthforlife
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 1:39amThat’s what we believe…. We are Christians!
Report Post »cottonbonds
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 2:28amcult or not a cult….one very simple test, who do you say Jesus is. Mormon folks are some of the very finest people on the planet, That said, there history and leadership propose a Jesus that cant save anyone. All dogs go to heaven in the LDS church, Mormons make it to the highest level, the rest of us to one of two lower heavens. As man is God once was, as God is man may become.
Report Post »DrWho
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 4:00amReality Check- Cain is picking up the evangelical vote from Bachman. Romney has a political glass-jaw with his Mormonism. Secularists wont vote for him and most Protestants and Catholics will have reluctance. If he were the nominee, I am sure that the BATF will find a Mormon compound to raid prior to the election. I believe Romney is a good and moral person, I also believe he can’t beat Obama.
There. I think I just offended most of the people on The Blaze.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 5:15amHank.. Yes. In the KJV many carry in the LDS Church have footnotes cross referencing to other scripture that Mormons use. Most people should not see a problem there as the Faith uses the Bible (which means a collection of writings) which includes topical indeces and even cross references back to within the Bible itself.
The BoM is not meant to be the Bible as put together under Emperor Constantine some 300 years after Christ. The BoM is meant to be another testament proving Christ lived beyond the crucifixion having been resurrected and then visiting other sheep not of the fold in Jerusalem. Therefore it is logical that those who believe such a group of writings would desire cross references among all of their scripture in order to connect passages and better teach Sunday School and others who might have sincere questions about how it would work WITH the Bible as another source of divine word for humans. It is not meant to be “biblical” because it is not the Bible but a different set of scripture much as the Dead Sea scrolls are. They, also are not part of the Bible but testify to the same things but because they are not located between the bindings of the KJV you would proclaim that reading and believing would be blasphemous and an abomination to God despite them having been found fairly well preserved in clay pot along with vials of olive oil and a lot of other neat stuff by a shephardgoing after a sheep that had wandered off. Still waiting on the complete interpretati
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 5:55amCotton… Mormons do not believe that they are the only ones who will make it to the highest degrees of glory, either. They believe all will be judged by their own works and considering all factors and environment in which they were performed. Baptism and other ordinances, however are still believed to be needed which is why they believe the need to perform them here on Earth. There are billions of people here on tjis planet that have never even heard of Jesus Christ among whom may be many good souls doing the best they can morally so neither you nor I could say that they will go any particular place simply because of where they were born. Hencs the Church imminent need for missionary work spreading the Word of Jesus Christ. After all this, if you still believe Mormons are a cult, you either haven’t been reading and listening or all religions are cults. Of the occult is not the same thing either. Mormons are Christians. The scorn by others against them over the past 170 yearshas been to say the least uncalled for. They are not Protestant nor Catholic just as a handful of other Christian Faiths that do not claim lineage through breaking away from the existing Protestant or Catholic institutions when they were organized. Among the others are Seventh Day Adventist, Jehova’s Witness, and Christian Scientist and others if I am not mistaken. And yes, Mormons can drink milk and no, their kids do not have horns growing from their heads. Missionaries aren’t black belt CIA operative
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 6:14amFor the record, Romney is too moderate to be the candidate to repair the damage to our country. Cain would have my vote if he keeps his focus on the problems that must be fixed instead of getting sidetracked in his interviews in the main stream media always trying to divode him from the issues by baiting him with things such as rocks where Perry has gone hunting and how come he didn’t “handle” the audience when a agy soldier was booed when it was his questioned that was booed by about 3 people who were almost certainly Obama plants. I spoke about that on the thread pertaining to it and still do not see charges pending for that soldier violating the UCMJ where soldiers are mandated to not be identified or in uniform and make statements in that capacity much less participate in political campaigning much less a debate of the opposite party that they would for. Soldiers can vote but give up many civilian rights to serve in that capacity and it takes away from unit cohesion to openly campaign in this manner. Military is all about conformity for a plethora of reasons. Also, if every vote should count, why are the military absentee ballots counted instead of discarded before these political speculators declare winners. You want to talk about disrespecting servicemen and women, we should start by addressing their votes not being worth as much as a ccivilian’s.
Report Post »BeHeardAmerica
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 8:18amI think the Mormom church over the past few years has been doing wonderful things in the name of Chirst but I also think they have a past and beginning that is not so wonderful.
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 8:32amThe hope of Christianity based on this and this alone, “The Risen LORD Jesus”, For had their been NOT and empty tomb, the risen Savior, having defeated death and the grave, than Christianity would be just another religion,,,vain and empty. Yes Christ paid a price no man/women could pay, yes it is the blood of Christ which one can plea anytime anywhere for the washing away sin, yes Jesus is Who He claim to be,..God, but without the resurrection there is NO hope for life everlasting !
http://www.Jesus-is-Savior.com Mormonism IS a cult read about its weak foundation !
http://www.GodSaid/ManSaid.com Further with Jesus
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 8:50am@ BOMBS.GIRL & DARREN, Just so you’ll both know, Christianity is based on this, and this alone
The resurrection of God’s Christ, LORD Jesus. Had there NOT been an empty tomb, The risen LORD “Physically alive again”, a defeating death & the grave, then Christianity is just another empty and vain religion of man, of the world, as are ALL religions.
The Christian’s Hope of eternal life, of everlasting life in the LORD Jesus is based “SOLELY” on His resurrection from death, and without the resurrection, there is NO hope for mankind….PERIOD.
The Blood of Christ does NOT give eternal life for it is simply for the remission of sin, the Crucifixion does not provide eternal life, for it was the payment God required, It is only believing that Jesus,God’s Christ, DID indeed rise up out of the grave alive again in the same physical body of which HE died and was buried in, as is according to God’s Word, the “KJV” Bible, that provides eternal life,,,nothing else !
Just so you’ll know what Christianity IS Based on !!!!
http://www.Jesus-is-Savior.com
http://www.GodSaid/ManSaid.com
Report Post »ireport uderide
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 9:01amBill Bennett and all ignorant Christians have no idea what Mormons believe.
As an Evangelical Christian I am posting the Catholic response to the cult of Mormonism.
Thank you Joe1234 for your reference.
What does the Catholic Church say about the practices and beliefs of Mormonism?
While individual Mormons may be persons of good conscience, Mormonism itself is a belief system that would reduce the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit from being the three Persons of the one, true, and infinite God to being three limited, finite deities among an uncounted multitude of deities, all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos.
Mormonism teaches that human beings may, by practicing the tenets of its faith, become gods and goddesses themselves, with their own planets full of people worshiping them.
While the Catholic Church would reject nothing that is true or good in Mormonism or any other world religion, Catholic theology would have to note that there is a tremendous amount in Mormonism that is neither true nor good. Further, because Mormonism presents itself as a form of Christianity yet is incompatible with the historic Christian faith, sound pastoral practice would need to warn the Christian faithful: Mormon theology is blasphemous, polytheistic, and cannot be considered on par with the theology of other Christian groups.
Sorry Mitt, I’m tapping out on supporting your bid for POTUS.
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 10:35amWell I can agree with what the Pastor said. –And I likewise agree with what Bill Bennett said. NOTE :
Report Post »Dr.Bennett did not said the Pastor LIED–or that he was mistaken. He did say the remarks did not help
Rick Perry. and strongly suggested they had no place in that forum. Everything I know about the Mormon experiment suggests it is indeed a cult founded by Joseph Smith.But God uses whom HE will. And I have good moral people who are Mormon- and I cannot say these are not believers in the person and work of Jesus of Nazareth called Christ. The only begotten Son of God.I cannot vote for Romney because I do not like his politics–not because of his religious faith. I could vote for –say
Glenn Beck for that Office -but not because he has converted to Mormonism. But because I can agree with much of what Glenn Beck has said on the subjects I care about. I could vote for a Catholic
but Not for a Muslim–because I agree with Noah Webster–and First Chief Justice John Jay we have not only the Right–but the Duty to select and choose for our leaders Just men who will Rule in Fear of God. We are to choose Christians for our leaders–if we are to perpetuate a Christian nation. I can understand Bill Bennetts sensitivity on the subject -as he remembers the foofrah about John Kennedy,because he was Catholic. And Bennett knows American history -but I suggest his view of history -as is my own– is filtered by his strong Catholic faith,and me of the Christian Church.
black9897
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 12:04pmMormonism IS a ‘Cult!
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 5:36pm“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!” Apostle Paul
Don’t listen to the baloney from the angel Moroni. Moron is in his name. This ought to be a clue! There is no “second testament of Jesus Christ.” It is instead another gospel the deceiver has tried to introduce to distort Christ, and then legitimize via good works and missionary efforts of this false church.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 9:27pmwebpreacher;
Mormons very much believe that Jesus’ resurrection was an essential part for eternal salvation and necessary to fulfill all righteousness and the will of the Father.
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on October 10, 2011 at 12:29amGlenn Beck is a member of this cult as well….
Report Post »by faith
Posted on October 10, 2011 at 12:34pmSome Protestants will tell you that the only acceptable version of the Bible is the King James. This position is known as King James-onlyism. Its advocates often make jokes such as, “If the King James Version was good enough for the apostle Paul, it is good enough for me,” or, “My King James Version corrects your Greek text.”
Report Post »They commonly claim that the King James is based on the only perfect set of manuscripts we have (a false claim; there is no perfect set of manuscripts; and the ones used for the KJV were compiled by a Catholic, Erasmus), that it is the only translation that avoids modern, liberal renderings, and that its translators were extremely saintly and scholarly men. Since the King James is also known as “the Authorized Version” (AV), its advocates sometimes argue that it is the only version to ever have been “authorized.” To this one may point out that it was only authorized in the Anglican church, which now uses other translations.
The complete KJV was published in 1611. Over the last three centuries, numerous minor changes (for example, of spelling and grammar) have been made in the King James, with the result that most versions of the KJV currently on the market are significantly different from the original. This has led one publisher to recently re-issue the 1611 King James Version Bible.
@leftfighter
Posted on October 10, 2011 at 3:18pmCult (n)- a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal & transient belief system regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false, & directed by a charismatic, authoritarian leader.
First, Joseph Smith based Mormonism upon a tenet with no scriptural basis: that if you live your life well enough, you can ascend to godhood. He “prophesied” in February 1835 that the end of the world would happen by 1891. This didn’t happen, which makes him as a false prophet. The end result of this theology is the epitome of misguided, unorthodox & false. Secondly, Smith was in fact a charismatic, authoritarian leader (if a ban on music isn’t authoritarian, I don’t know what is).
Sorry, Mormons. It fits the theological definition to a tee.
Come to it, Smith‘s story mirrors Mohammad’s. An angel appears to only one man with a new revelation of God’s will on the basis that “the scriptures have been recopied so many times that it‘s no longer God’s Word.” He then takes multiple wives, the youngest of which is only a child.
The paralells go on, but I ask: since the stories are so similar, which “prophet’s” angel was telling the truth? Is it at all possible that the Enemy sent two demons to deliberately warp the Truth to lead steal souls away from God?
“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the (LDS).”
(Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, verse 1, pg 40)
Jus
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 10, 2011 at 5:30pmEvangelical and Catholic Christians do NOT have a copyright nor any patent on usage of the word “Christian”. If anyone would, it would be Christ himself. The does not refer to Mormons as a non-Christian religion and neither do many Evangelical pastors and preachers because they know enough about the belief system to know better. I just love how so many people not of the Faith like to preach to and tell you what you believe and that, like some childish romper room title fight, saying that you can’t call yourself Christian because we say so. So what is the qualification for real then? Seems that you must either be Roman Catholic or Protestant. Well I am wondering then who gave Protestants permission to use this words or even Catholics. Is there some club or cult that you insinuate must be joined to call yourselves followers of Christ? Mormons fit all of the qualifications you set yet you cannot seem to be able to accept from actual Mormons telling you what they believe and how they worship actually causing you to doubt what your source,whether preacher, pastor or whoever and what they say about others which would mean they bear false witness. Is that preacher in Iran Christian enough for you to give him permission to call himself a Christian? How about the Coptic Christians in Egypt? Please my Christian Brothers and Sisters, do tell. I sincerely want to know why it bothers mainly Evangelicals so bad. I have parents that were Southern Baptist and Methodist most of their live
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:19amLeftfighter…Mormons are not informal nor transient. All Christian Churches have charismatic leaders. Therefore according to your definition, ALL Christian Faiths are cults or Mormons simply are not one. But hey you could still always meet one and see the fruits of their labors and JUDGE them for yourself instead of prejudging them like a bigot who is prejudiced. I admonish you to seek first. Swallowing pride is not easy to do, I know. Admitting you may have been wrong would then follow. Good luck and may God bless you!@
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:01pmSay what you will about the Southern Baptists and evangelicals but you would be hard pressed to make more money as a “man of God” in any other faith. They have mastered the art of using the widows mite for personal enrichment. On top of that when your done taking your share you pass the power down to your children and grand children. That’s not a cult thats a really great way to make a living and keep it in the familly. When Jesus comes back do you think he will make more money than those pastors for preaching the gospel?
Report Post »DukeNukemall
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:09pmInteresting, did you know that Mormons don’t have paid clergy?
Report Post »neocon1
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:16pmso, it is still a cult
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:17pmYes, that was my point.
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:18pmYeah neofan, nobody gets paid. Plus, we have really good pot lucks and carpeted basketball courts in almost every church.lol
Seriously though, I hope you visit sometime : )
Report Post »bellereve
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:23pm@Brian8793,
“carpeted basketball courts” LMAO!!! but, true!! ;) i DID notice that.
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:24pmIf Jesus came to make money off of the poor then the Soutthern Baptists are right on the money so to speak.
Report Post »RabidPatriot
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:40pmThe use of the word cult was not very nice but it was not inaccurate. The LDS church has secularized some of their beliefs to become more widely excepted. Some of their unorthodox beliefs and rituals are kept very secret so as to avoid being more widely classified as a cult. Their beliefs are NOT that of Christianity but have heavily borrowed from it.
Report Post »DukeNukemall
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:41pmWhat is a cult. Webster defines it as “Formal religious veneration”.. In that respect all religions could be considered a “Cult”.
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:47pmI way replying to DukeNukeMall. My point is that if your aim is to make money and keep it in the family then Mormonism is not going to help you. You need to be a Southern Baptist or a pastor from an evangelical church to make money and pass the business down to your kids.
Report Post »Harold B
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:00pmWhat do you want? Disallow the church money I agree funding for everything should come from the government then Obama Pelosi and Ried could be the ones to decide for us what is right or politically correct and we could all be useful idiots for the left to rule. the best wine is aged and it is an old whine straight from the Marxist Constitution of the (former) USSR article 52 _ _ _ a seperation of church and state _ _ _ let liberal degenerate ideology go unabated, You complain about the church and I will complain about you
Report Post »iblvingd
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:03pmDo you have any idea how much the LDS (Mormon) Church does in the world today? You realize that they are among the first responders or sometime even the first responders in the disasters of the world!
They set up the Japanese fisherman with freezers and equipment after the quake and tsunami so they could get back to fishing, they have donated money for fuel and over 800 tons of food and supplies, and it continues to this day. The church puts no requirement of religion upon the help it provides.
No matter what disaster anywhere in the world there has been you will find the LDS church helping.
The LDS church has no paid clergy. The churches money comes from the donations of its members and the ability of the church to be resourceful and the generosity of the members of its church who do nothing but donate to the cause in order to aid people world wide.
The church also aides people, members or not in getting an education so they can support themselves. They teach people to be responsible, resourceful and charitable.
Through their missionary program that is world wide, it keeps able bodied people on the ground who are ready willing and able to help anyone in need.
This church could not accomplish all it does without the help and blessings of the Lord.
The word cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre.
I do not think this church falls into this category.
Report Post »iblvingd
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:10pm@Neofan We all have the right to theological differences! What only matters is how each one of us end up on judgement day. Doesn’t it say in the Ten Commandments” that we are not to judge? We will each be judged by what is in our own hearts, and not what is in yours. We will be judged for judging others as I understand it. Therefore respectfully accept that others may believe differently than you, but it will all be worked out in the end.
We respectfully accept your opinion on your faith. Lets worry more about the matter at hand, will we have this freedom post OBAMA. Will you have the freedom to believe what you believe, if a One World Government and religion evolves from this mess?
Let’s collectively work on getting our corrupt congressman out of office and a new President that can offer hope to repair the damage that has the knowledge a capability to do it.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:21pmSay what you will about LDS, Neos (plural), but that institution has done more good without paid clergy and with the most efficient operating costs in emergaency assistance operations helping others than any government entity or even any other non Faith based charity I can think of.
We are missing the point of what is going on here. These are LibGressicons trying to get us to fight amongst ourselves over who among these candidates is the worst instead who among them is the best. The start with whoever is polling the best and only attack that person this week. They did it to Romney, Perry, Cain, Bachman, Cain again, and now back to Romney. They will get us almost eating each other with typical political mudslinging and use anything dug up on the conservative side later int the general election against the conservative candidate. Anyone who actually knows a Mormon knows they are not a “cultist” as defined by that misconception of the word “cult”. It is not of the OCCULT, but a group of followers who believe the same thing. That would fit most Faiths I dare say. LibGressicons are a cult, then. Just see what they believe in and are occupying against: “we don’t know why we are here“ is the foundation of their ”faith”.
And yes, Mormons are Christians, without a shadow of doubt. It isn’t hard to get 2 clean cut well mannered representatives of the Church to come visit you and share that message with you removing any doubt that Christ is at the core of the Faith.
Report Post »Katydidnt
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:36pmIBLVNGD – I did not want to get into this but that comment about the 10 commandments is not even close. If your knowledge of the Bible is so little that you do not know the 10 commandments, I wouldn’t be advertising that fact when trying to argue religion.
There are two different kinds of judging. One is whether or not some action is a sin. We can do that by comparing it to God’s law and judging the fruit of the actions. You are judging an action. The other kind of judging is saying that this person or that person is going to hell.
Report Post »So I can authoratively state that adultery is a sin because that is what the Bible states. I cannot say that a particular adulterer is going to hell, because he or she may have just repented and stands redeemed in the eyes of God.
SquishyBear
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:49pm@neocon1 you are still an ignorant bigot
Report Post »DukeNukemall
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:53pmWe all have our differences. Let‘s all unite and defend each other’s right to think as we will, be it Mormon, Jew, or other Christian believers. One thing is certain. We have to defeat the evil that is before us. All of our God given rights are at stake in the coming election. God help us to unit to defeat this Godless bunch in Washington. We must stand united to get our Nation back on track.
Report Post »mad_hatter
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:53pmWhat faith are you talking about? Talking from as a third party I have heard of more evangelicals stealing millions, taking money from poor old people and living high on the hog than any mormon I have ever heard of.
People like throwing around the word cult but I say you have no concept of the word and neither does that S. Baptist preacher. Here is the definition: A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. If you remember back in history, when Christianity was started it was called a cult and the people were called Christians because of their faith in a particular figure… JESUS CHRIST. Lutheran’s were also considered a cult by those of the Catholic faith because they were different and they pointed out that Martin Luther was the one they were following… though it was Christ they claimed to follow. Now the Mormon are hit with the same bigotry because yes they like every other church believes in different things about the same Christ, yet they all base their faith off the fact that Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins and it is by his grace they are saved.
Those who would excoriate a faith like Mormons need to look at themselves before judging and repent. In my opinion.
AS PER ANY DEFINITION, MORMONISM IS NOT A CULT OR IF THEY ARE ALL CHURCHES THAT PROFESS IN CHRIST ARE BY DEFINITION A CULT.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:57pmKaty;
“that comment about the 10 commandments is not even close”
IB spoke about not udging, correct? Doesn’t one of the Ten Commandments say something about bearing false witness?
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:59pmJudging in life cannot be avoided. We make no decisions without making a judgement of some kind usually based on the facts we have whether true or not. We also make prejudicial judgements based on whether or not we have been done right or wrong by individuals of groups or by groups of individuals. Society MUST have judges and even had them in the Books of Moses. They should be as fair and just as they can and will be accountable if they knowingly misjudge especially in their position. Our system shares the judgement of guilt or innocence with having a jury.
Report Post »Katydidnt
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:10pmDarren,
Report Post »The Ten Commandments is the establishment of the law by which we are the be judged. Any comments about not judging do not appear until about 600 years later with the coming of Christ and mercy. I was not bearing false witness. I absolutely stand by my comment that you shall not judge is not even close to the Ten Commandments.
The Ten Commandments were the laws set up by which the people of Israel were to judge others. The penalty for breaking most of them was death. Please tell me how this jibes with the New Testement commandment of “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”
The Law needed to be established so we would know our transgressions. There cannot be repentance without knowledge of sin, and without repentence we cannot access mercy. We obtain mercy by realizing that Jesus bore the punishment for our transgression, that is death.
Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:43pmKaty;
“I was not bearing false witness.”
I didn’t say you were but you did say that not judging is hadrly part ofthe Ten Commandments. clearly it is.
Report Post »FranciscoDAnconia
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:23pmHANKSCRAM:
Seriously what the hell is wrong with christians? Why in the world would you spend so much time worrying about the Mormons. And how in the world do you really think you are going to prove that you are right. Isn’t that a little antithetical? How arrogant and silly is it to try to prove your faith by using any thing. You can’t prove faith, otherwise it would be science. This is not hard. How are you going to prove any thing from the bible that is faith based. Can you prove that Jesus Christ personally atoned for every single person on earth? Of course you can’t. And you are not suppose to. The holy spirit is whom testifies the validity of Jesus The Christ. Can you prove that Moses spoke with a burning bush? Of course you can’t. So you are right-those crazy Mormons believe that Joseph Smith talked to god, but of its not crazy that Moses spoke to god as a burning bush. Listen to yourself you sound preposterous. You are shooting yourself in the foot and look completely foolish. I have listened to these agreements thousands of times and its futile. Paul says to the corinthians that spiritual things are taught only by the spirit of Christ. I believe in Jesus Christ just like any of you do. I have professed that belief and proclaimed it to the world. How am I not christian? I read the bible many times and I actually follow what it says. But somehow according to christian bigots I am not a christian. Judge not that ye be not judged, for with what judgment you judge
Report Post »Nlitend1
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:05pmMormons are generally such nice people. Look at Brian’s post above–you called his religion a cult and he invited you to church. I guess glenn beck is less nice, but from my point of view, mormons are taught and behave with much more tolerance and kindness than your average christian…especially many/most of the christians populating this site.
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 9:57pmNext time I will not try to use sarcasm. I don’t find religion or selling the gospel for personal gain in any way legitimate. The idea that you make money from the gospel which Jesus Christ gave to all men for free is sickening to me. In my opinion calling yourself a “man of God” and taking a paycheck for doing it is the definition of a hypocrite. When your salary competes with the poor and hungry the latter will always lose.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:34pmRabidPatriot.
The Church has not changed for the sake of “acceptance”. If it HAD changed it would have lost followers for that reason alon being there is the belief that God does not change and neither does His gospel… according to Mormon belief. Only new revelation given to a living Prophet could make changes in policy, scripture writing or revelation, or even doctrine but not gospel. It will always be that Jesus Christ is the savior and to pray to the Father in the name of the Son. The Articles of Faith are meant to pretty much make out all of the points so that the beliefs are clear to those wanting to know.
Report Post »HankScram
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 12:04amThe book of Mormon won a bunch of Tony awards. Good fiction but not Christian.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 12:13amHank… I don’t recall the BoM ever addressing fiction. Much less winning any awards.
Report Post »Goldenyears22
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 2:29amThe definition of a cult is what they do with the Diety of Christ. The Bible clearly says that Jesus Christ is the second person of the God Head, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus was with God from the beginning, is the Creator of this Universe. He was not created and this is where we find the Mormons to be a cult. They believe that Jesus was created by God and is a brother to Lucifer who later fell from heaven and became Satan who plagues the world. There are a lot of other very sharp differences in Christianity and Mormonism. No they are not Christian even if they call themselves Christian because they change the Diety of Christ to a created being when he was The Word and The Word was with God and always was, is and will always be. We have come to a time that the end times speaks of when whatever people want to believe will be alright and take you to heaven. Mormons do not believe a lot of the Bible. Why tell me do they call God a liar? They said that He came to Joseph Smith and told him he had a better church, the right church. So God made a mistake in the Bible? I think not, the Bible tells us that God is always the same, yesterday, today and forever, God does not change. So God did not change to suit Joseph Smith and become a different God than what He gave us in His written Word the Bible. Wake up people to the truth. They are good people, they live good moral lives, but they are not Christian by the definition that God gives us.
Report Post »Goldenyears22
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 2:33amI think you do not have a clue as to what you are talking about. Some large churches pay their pastors better, they can. But there are thousands of smaller SBC churches who do not pay their pastors large salaries. It is the same with all denominations, the larger the congregation, they can afford to pay better, the smaller the churches they pay what they can.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 6:36amGolden… The Bible does not define a cult. That is the flaw in your argument. Also try and remember that it was man that was arguing over what books to include or not include in the Bible as it was assembled under Emperor Constantine. Mormons believe the Bible as far as it is is translated correctly. Over thousands of years passed through human hands at times memorized by monks for safe keeping when written copies of it were periodically destroyed. The possibility of error MAY creep in because of human error, not God’s error. IF the complete truth was lost, according to the Mormon belief, then God himself was required for restoration of the complete truth.
So far as Mormons know, Jehova was always here from the beginning to the end. Your words regarding their beliefs are simply inaccurate and a human error. Nothing more or less.
Your definition of a cult fits SBCs as well. “We believe in God the Father, in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.”
That would make Mormons to be Christians not to mention that everything in their Church is centered on Christ. This argument has become silly and all too repetitive. It is meant to divide a large Judeo Christian movement by taking out and separating one piece at a time whittling away at its structural integrity. You should accept the fact that Mormons are Christians and move on instead of trying to be divisive and helping the true enemies of our country who would allow us no freedom of religion or the ability to t
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 9:05am@DUKENUKEMALL, So, clergy do not get paid in the Mormon church, well just goes to show you how UN-BIBLICAL they are in their doctrine and teachings. For clearly in the New Testament Scriptures, those who Worked as leaders within the Body Of Christ, which is His Church, received compensation (were taken care of, needs meet) for their work as leaders, within the Church !
http://www.Jesus-is-Savior.com
http://www.GodSaid/ManSaid.com
Report Post »DukeNukemall
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:01pmReligions are made up of imperfect people. There’s bound to be a bad apple in every bushel, however, I judge a religion by it’s works, not what some minister says. Just as I judge radical Islam. By their works ye shall know them.. Don’t judge them until you know them.
Report Post »wise grandma
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:21pmBy works alone you may not be saved least any man should boast, but only through the Grace of God.
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:46pmYou didn’t even spew your hate with truth! Ask your pastor to give you an updated talking points sheet. Mormons DO NOT BELIEVE IN BEING SAVED BY WORKS FOR THE LAST TIME.
Until then, do your homework: http://mormon.org/humanitarian...
Who has the world’s largest welfare program? The true love of Christ
Report Post »DukeNukemall
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:10pmMy point of “Works” was that if a religion tells you to go out and kill others because they don’t believe as you do there is something wrong with their “Works”, it isn’t of God. If a religion tells you to demean another’s religion that is not of God either. We should respect each other regardless of our beliefs. God loves the Mormon just as much as he does the Baptist or the Jew.
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 10:00am@DUKENUUKEMALL, You are right, ALL religions ARE cults, ALL the religions in this world are man made, they are of the world not of God. Religion is simply man’s attempt to reconcile himself to God in his own way, in and of himself, which is empty and vain. Christianity is NOT a religion, Not of mankind, Not of this world, but is of God, and is not about having a religion, but having a relationship with God, by faith in His Christ,, LORD Jesus. Christianity is God’s Truth, His provision for the lost and dying in this world. Jesus, who is God, said of himself, “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one goes to the Father but by me” ! Faith in Christ Jesus, is not believing in a religion, but in the Truth of God’s Word, which is the establishing of a relationship having believed on the Only “begotten” of the Father…Jesus, the LORD.and redeemer of souls !
Just so you’ll know !
http://www.Jesus-is-Savior.com
Report Post »http://www.GodSaid/ManSaid.com
thclad
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:00pmBill Bennett is a fat bloated pig with a drinking and gambling problem. Mr. Values. Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:58pmI have no problem with this Pastor thinking the Mormon Church is a cult. The Bible is clear that Christ’s Church will not be “popular.”
The Mormon Church is definitely not popular, and never will be. Amen to that…
Report Post »skellmeyer
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:10pmBRIAN8793,
If Mormonism is Christ’s Church, then why is the Book of Mormon wrong on so many counts? There is ZERO evidence of any major civilizations in North America such as the Book of Mormon describes. A lot of the Book of Mormon is cribbed from the KJV. What isn’t plagiarized is historically false. If Jesus Christ is the Truth, then Mormonism is…. what?
Report Post »rdietz7
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:11pmMormonism is popular. There is a whole cable show dedicated to Mormonism. Big Love. Evangelicals have not had a popular show since Seventh Heaven.
Just the fact that Romney has made it to where he is proves that Mormonism is generally accepted by the secular community.
The body of Christ are people committed to turning their lives over to Jesus. Jesus! Not a prophet! Not their earthly father, husband or wife. The body of Christ is not in a building, temple or amongst statues of angels and other human forms.
There are not many true Christians in any community. ESP. Mormonism and Catholicism because they are the religions twisting the gospels and adding to prophecy and scripture.
If you believe in what you just said, let me assure you that your afterlife will eternally suck.
Reject your cult Mormons! Follow Christ alone.
You won’t though because you are afraid to loose your friends and family and acceptance in your church. Give up wordly comforts because they are just dust in the wind.
Never let a Mormon have political power, they are in the church of the morning star posing as this Moroni. Lucifer!
Report Post »ripcord506
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:14pmA Cult is organized religion- may be that applies to all religions. Though I do believe in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:16pmWhere in the Bible does it say to look for archeological and scientific evidence when searching for Christ?
I always thought it was the spirit that testified to the truth.
Report Post »wise grandma
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:19pmPopularity is not the answer. Does it agree with the one and only holy Bible as it is written in the original languages then and only then is it a Christian faith. I don’t think Christ ever heard about the book of mormon. I agree no Christian church is perfect, but adding on to what Christ taught with your own ideas does not a Christian make.
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:21pmBig Love, if anything, makes fun of modern day Polygamy.
Tom Hanks even said Mormons are “un-American,” and I’m pretty sure Tom Hanks was the EXECUTIVE PRODUCER of that show.
“Mormons are popular.”lol NEVER, and thank God for that.
Report Post »Liberty One
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:24pmI like Romney. I will vote for him based on what he can do to put our country back on track. Not on what religion he is part of. We are a country of freedoms and the expression of our faith whatever they may be is one of them.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:26pm“Never let a Mormon have political power, they are in the church of the morning star posing as this Moroni. Lucifer!”
” 2 For behold, their wars are exceedingly fierce among themselves; and because of their hatred they put to death every Nephite that will not deny the Christ.
3 And I, Moroni, will not deny the Christ; wherefore, I wander whithersoever I can for the safety of mine own life.” (Moroni 1)
Not exactly the words of Lucifer, eh?
Report Post »rdietz7
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:36pmBig Love is a good show in my opinion. I think it does justly portray the differences between LDS and polygamists. Not sure what Tom Hanks said about Mormonism.
Brian get real. The Big Love was the intro to the message I had not only about Mormonism but all organized religions. Mormons, like the Mega churches your mocking, all have a tendency to put their congregation, status, family girlfriends and husbands etc… before their faith in Jesus Christ.
Religions in fact, all distort Christ’s message anduse their interpretation of it for their own gain. Your bishops included. Man is more interested in power than money anyways. So even if they are not rolling around in Bentley’s like priests they are in it for the power.
Plus none of you have any idea what these Mormon prophets and bishops gain financialoy out of their position. ESP. If your a fellow Mormon. Your leaders keep you in the dark more than anyone.
Report Post »blamb61
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:28pmRDIETZ7
Bishops (in the LDS church) are asked by those in authority above them to be the Bishop. There is no seeking, campaigning etc. to be a Bishop in the LDS church so there is not power seeking and the call often comes as a big suprise.
People volunteer time because they believe in the cause even though they hold down full time jobs to support their families. You do not know what you are talking about.
From a former LDS Bishop
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:38pm@Skell… Are you saying that there is no evidence of the existence of the Aztec, Toltec, Olmec, Mayan, Incan, etc., in the Americas at all? Wow, the brainwashing institutions are worse than we thought. The majority of the BoM is typically (though not said through any doctrine with absolute certainty) said to have been central America. The beleif is that throughout its coverage over 3200 years, the people here were moving around making it impossible to say even ny a historian guessing what exactly was being done when and by whom even if they know the “where”. There is evidence that white was worshipped as a god when arriving here as a returning 1.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:51pm@RDIET7
Mormons do not worship nor devote their lives to a Prophet. THAT is a common misunderstanding almost exclusively from people who know next to nothing about the Faith. Only the anti literature they have heard from their Pastor’s pulpit or their church of the libgressive mainstream media. The Church embodie the idea of personal revelation from God whenever necessary else you could never say that God helped you do anything. The Prophet speaks and the members each have a responsibility to go home and get on their knees and pray for their own revelation as to the veracity of the Prophet’s words. You, it seems have LDS Mormons confused with FLDS.
Report Post »Amica
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:17pmRdiet27:
Report Post »Big Love??? Really? Not about Mormons, duh!
That was funny, the rest of your post? Y-A-W-N!
I just wish you and people like you would just, please, COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!!
Reduce.Our.Govt.Footprint
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:27pmYou are either very judgemental, or a hypocrite, first of all Tom Hanks is a liberal, the problem with these actors trying to become politicians or political is that they are simply one sided, what ever makes them popular or whatever they can profit from the most. Secondly…he said that anyone who supports proposition 8 was un-american, guess what, that consists of many people, christians and actors! If you are going to spew your hate, at least get the facts right.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:20pmThe problem with hollywood getting political and voicing their agendas and opinions is that most of them have no personal identity of their own. They actually start to believe they are real doctors, lawyers, parents, superheroes, etc. and it truly goes to their heads. There are a few exceptions including John Voight, Gary Sinise, etc. Actors are professional liars, pretenders, and are always directed what to do. They do not know how to form their own independent cohesive character not compiled of the sum of all the characters they have portrayed. On top of that is the screen actors guild and union they worship. I really liked Heston and could see true grit in him such as John Wayne. Heston spoke out in a Warner Brothers shareholder meeting against certain hate hate and crime provoking music and the body quickly told the board to shut up and let him talk. You just can’t tell Heston to shut up. It almost seems like a sin to tell the guy that played Moses and Judah Ben Hur to shut it.
Anyway, these actors are not as smart and their opinions are not as important as society, the mainstream media, and our youth have been programmed to believed. They are professional deceivers.
Report Post »AxelPhantom
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:57pmI don’t like chest thumping from any group when it comes to religion, God knows your heart and He, not us, will sit in final judgment of who is worthy of His gifts.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:28pmI agree though I find it difficult not to defend your core beliefs in the face of atrocious propagated falseties. Sometimes you have to stand and correct them. As for our country’s problems today we have to unite despite our differences of doctrinal beliefs or we may lose the freedom to practice them.
Report Post »FranciscoDAnconia
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:34pmDarren,
Go climb back up into your cave. Yeah bro, the mormon church is going to take over the world. Really? Let me guess the mormon church is the anti-christ to? And the government is also responsible for 9/11. They have low standards on who can comment on this board. The more time I spend on this board the more liberal I become. I am tired of battling conservatives on religion. Liberals are much more accepting of people. What a bunch of racist bigots.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 9:32pmFrancis;
Ummmm, when did I post on this subthread? And what are you talking about?
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:51pmFrancis… Liberals are highly intolerant of conservative beliefs and even Mormons moreso. Harry Reid is an anomaly of some kind. I still respect most people here despite my religious beliefs having differences from them but still desire to set the record straight when I see anyone propagating untruth smearing me regardless of who it is. I will still treat others with respect. Admittedly, however, I still can get wound up and passionate about my beliefs but I, like some others here have been a democrat or liberal follower at some point in my life. The whole time, looking back, made me feel like I needed a bath after being among them to at least wash off the hate. I can’t really think of how else it makes you feel except as a traitor to your beliefs. Would like to see you stay around.
Report Post »gracentruth
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 12:10amAmen.
Report Post »Nlitend1
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 11:29amHey Francis,
Report Post »this is nothing, this is actually quite civil in comparison to some other comment boards. You should check out the article about serena williams a few weeks ago. Completely infested with racism.
brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:52pmThese mega-super-duper Pastors are making MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Why would they like The Mormon Church? This is simple economics folks. The Mormon Church is a true non-profit organization. This means that nobody gets paid.
These people are fighting to keep their way of life. To many Christian Pastor’s, Church is simply their way to earn a living…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:12pmoh yeah I’m glad the mormons are SO spiritual and above filthy lucre…
The president is also supplied with a home. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, Aug. 27, 1994, p. E1, the president of the LDS Church lives in a “downtown condominium, the official residence of church presidents.” In the Salt Lake Tribune, Dec. 8, 1988, we read “The $1.2 million condominium at 40 N. State that is home to the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be exempt from property taxes, Salt Lake County commissioners ruled Tuesday.”
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:26pmYou think he should live in a shack? The man has a lot of work to do. The Church is allowed to provide for people who do not work. Besides, most of the Apostles and Presidents of our Church didn’t “MOVE UP” by becoming Church Authority. Most of them(maybe all i’m not sure) took drastic cuts, but they don’t seem to mind : )
My comment was rude, however. After I wrote it, I wanted to erase it. I apologize if I offended you, and I hope you have a great day.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:43pmthats ok…there are far too many people in all churches who are after money…warren for example, who prays in the name of ‘issa’ at obama’s inauguration….
Report Post »rdietz7
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:45pmI‘m against all organized religions but Brian man please Drop you argument about the Mormons being better because they aren’t in it for the money $$$$!
We have all driven by or visited you huge majestic EXPENSIVE Temples. Get real. Your brainwashed.
Someone needs to tell ya. Run away from your suppressors dude before they control what’s left of your life. And lead you away from Christ through false doctrine and pipe dreams of owning your own planet.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:52pmJoe;
The President of the LDs church does not own the condominium by which he resides. Since the Church’s president does not labor at all for wages it is earthly impossible to gain money while serving in that capacity. The $1.2 million price tag is relative to the fact that the condo is located in downtown Salt Lake City where typically one gets ar less value from living quarters than from outside downtown. Also, whatever taxes are decided are for elected officials to decide. The location of the residence is for the president to be located close to Church offices. While I‘m sure they are nice places to live I don’t think they qualify as “filthy lucre” especially in light of the fact that the president ofthe LDs church resigns his employment to focus on the LDS Church. In these situations the Church has always reserved the right to provide a home.
Report Post »Fargo44
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:19pmActually I liked your comment Brian. It may have been hasty and maybe intemperate but many of the bigots posting this page deserve it. I am a conservative and veteran but many of the commentors to this article IMO seem arrogant, supercilious, and certainly bigoted. They talk like jerks with a stick up their butt? I listen a lot to GBTV but I guess many of Glen followers think little of him. I mean they must because Glen is a Mormon right too right?
Report Post »rdietz7
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:04pmFargo 44 has no clue. Do you even know or have known a real Morman? Born and raised Morman. Not a adult convert like Glenn. BiG difference. Your a bigot Fargo! Mainly due to your ignorance.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 12:01amI don‘t see any problems with Fargo’s logic or with him or her stating their opinion.
Now Joe1234 appears to have been hijacked and not the same logical poster I have spoken with on other threads on the Blaze. He sounds like JOEI234 usually does.
Report Post »slr4528
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:50pmGood for Bennett!
Report Post »Netsurfer2
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:46pmI have seen Catholicism, Mormon, Jehovah witness, Southern Baptist, and many other churches. No one is holier than thou, including me! Believe what you want, it’s your right, but the truth reality will set you free! I believe what is truly in your heart will be what you are judged on! It’s not for me to say what you do or even tell you what you should not do! That is my choice and no one has the right to control my choices but me. What would be nice is less lawyers and less government! Seems that all they are more and more are just a bunch of vampires sucking the life out of everyone.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:51pmWell said.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 12:09amabsolutely believe we need less lawyers IN government as well as less career politicians. It is good to see in this day, however that finally Mormons can be elected to offices outside of Utah.
Report Post »guntotinsquaw
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:44pmChief Joseph was right.. churches will teach man to quarral about the Creator of All Things…Glad I wasn’t raised in one.
Report Post »bellereve
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:43pmwow, when i really wanted to know what LDS was, i asked some missionaries, went to the church, and lo and behold, they are NORMAL Christ worshipping people. with no weird stuff. (i was actually hoping they would be a bit weirder for my tastes, but the nicest people i have EVER met in my entire life, and very family-friendly.)
I have went to almost every other christian faith based church over my lifetime, and really, find most of them so hypocritical and judgemental… or “REALLY” out there. eek, the ones that “feel the spirit”…yi-ikes. i run from them. the super churches? don’t get me started on those hotbeds of hypocrisy. (we have the biggest one in louisville… some of the most hateful people you’ll ever meet, but their “6 flags over jesus” sure is pretty.) i couldn’t even stand a whole hateful, hypocritical sermon there. not to mention the fact jesus would probably throw up at how much they COULD have helped the poor without pouring it into that monstrosity.
so now, if i do want to go and have fellowship with honest, good people, i actually go back to the LDS church i visited.
people really need to grow up and research before inserting their religion in one another’s mouths.
by the way, i was agnostic, and minored in theology in college. glenn actually got me searching for the light again.
Report Post »dnewton
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:00pmMormons are the nicest bunch of people in the world. I had a brother who was in the Mormon faith, but they are going to hell every one of them if they pretend that Jesus is not the only way of salvation and they insist that they are or can be gods. If Romney can save the country before going to hell, I will thank him very much.
Report Post »bellereve
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:10pmum, yeah, it’s people like you that keep me agnostic. thanks freak. yowza.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:06pm“I had a brother who was in the Mormon faith, but they are going to hell every one of them if they pretend that Jesus is not the only way of salvation and they insist that they are or can be gods”
Good to know that God has it all planned out where good people are going straight to hell, eh? It‘s also good that Mormons don’t think that Jesus is not the only way towards salvation and that even Jesus called the saints “gods”.
Report Post »sister1_rm
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:49pmHey, DNEWTON
Ok, here’s a joke for you: A man died and went to heaven and St Peter showed him to his mansion. After a while the man gets curious about Hell, so he goes to St Peter and says, “Heaven is so wonderful. I absolutely love it here, but I’m curious about what Hell is like. Do you think I could take a brief tour of Hell”. St Pete says, “Why of course. I’ll take you myself and show you around” So down they go and St Peter takes the man on a tour through hell. They see plenty of damnation, suffering and mush hell-fire, but then they come to a beautiful place with rolling fields of grain and fruit orchards, and lush flower gardens. Staring in shock and wonder at the beauty surrounding him, the man asks St Peter, what’s this? I thought this was Hell?”, to which St Peter says, “Oh you know those Mormons. They can irrigate anything”.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:49pmsister;
LOL!
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:59pmThank you for sharing BELLEREVE.
Report Post »TrueBlue68
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:43pmI am constantly amazed at the level of hatred, bigotry and mis-information that is constantly being spread about my faith: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I believe in and follow Jesus Christ to the best of my ability every day. Just like the rest of you I often fall short. In the New Testament, those who followed Christ after his crucifixion, were dubbed Christians by those who hated them. We follow Christ and by the purest definition of the word are Christians. What gives the Catholic church, the Baptist church or any other church the right to determine who should be considered Christian or not? Is that not for God to judge? Furthermore, the Savior said, “by their fruits, ye shall know them?”. For which offense are we convicted by other so-called Christians? Worshipping Jesus Christ? Following the prophets? Belief in the traditional family? Belief that the Ten Commandments still matter? Trying to be good citizens and neighbors? Equating that with a cult is more than just merely offensive. Are we like Jim Jones and his followers? No. Do we worship Satan? No. Do we protest at the funerals of American soldiers? No. If you want to find a cult, look there. You don’t have to agree with my beliefs, but why is it necessary to attack me? And if you want to know my beliefs ask me or go to mormon.org, do not ask a Baptist preacher. If I want to know his beliefs I will ask him rather than a Catholic. Words matter, let us all be more Christ-like.
Report Post »capecodsully
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:53pmTRUEBLUE68 – I’ve known Catholics that hate Baptists, Baptists that hate Catholics, Pentacostals that hate Catholics, some fruit huh?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:03pmwhat Christ do you follow? christianity is a religion of grace and faith…mormonism is a religion of works…in order to be exalted you have to do works, be baptized, etc….
Report Post »TrueBlue68
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:06pmI will gladly stand with anyone, of any faith, who fights for truth, freedom and the restoration of governance under the Constitution. I don’t care what church they belong to as long as I believe they are good, sincere and honest people. If those of us with common beliefs in the political arena do not stand together we will all fall separately. There is NO religious litmus test for service in our government. If the religious peoples of the country create one, we are doomed. Liberals don’t create such divisions amongst themselves because liberalism is their god. Will we allow them to divide and conquer us or will we stand together and work for the survival of this nation that we all love so dearly?
Report Post »TrueBlue68
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:16pmJoe1234 my friend–there is only one Christ. If we only believed in works, what would be the point of even believing in Christ? Without him we are nothing and this life is pointless. Faith and grace are key elements of our faith. However, we don’t believe that you can commit murder and simply be forgiven by confessing Christ. We have to make restituion and repent while availing ourselves of the cleansing power of the Atonement of the Savior. This is what we believe, “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:30pm“there is only one Christ.”
true…I wish that were true (ok I couldn’t resist…sorry ;-) )
the jesus of the muslims, for example, is not the Jesus of the Bible…nor is the Jesus of the mormons…
Report Post »TrueBlue68
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:45pmDoes it strike you as odd that you think you know more about my faith and who I worship than I do? I know who I worship. The Muslims don’t even believe in the divinity of Christ–they think he was only a teacher or a prophet. That is quite a comparitive stretch.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:03pmJoe;
“in order to be exalted you have to do works, be baptized, etc….”
Are you talking about Mormonism or Catholicism? You seem to embrace Catholicicsm as far as it condemns Mormonism and then you condemn mormonism for things they believe which are equivalent to Catholicism. And is being baptized not biblical or Christian?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:36pmtrue, I can read what your church writes….
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).
.Jesus’ sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
“Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
thats the mormon Jesus…not the Jesus of the bible
Report Post »Mark Tripp
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:08pm@Joe1234
You are very much correct when you say the Jesus of the LDS faith is NOT the Jesus you worship. YOUR Jesus says a person who never heard the name Jesus in his life must burn in the same hell next to Hitler. That the Jews, murdered in the camps, but did not believe Jesus was Lord, also burn in hell next to those who murdered them. I can go on, but that is YOUR Jesus and you are welcome to him.
MY Jesus saved everyone, has a plan for everyone, and knows who should burn in Hell, and who should be in Paradise with him.
Thanks for playing the game, we have lovely parting gifts…..
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:25pm“YOUR Jesus says a person who never heard the name Jesus in his life must burn in the same hell next to Hitler.”
really? I missed that verse…can you post it for me?
“MY Jesus saved everyone, has a plan for everyone, and knows who should burn in Hell, and who should be in Paradise with him.”
how can anyone be in hell if Jesus saves everyone…..
thanks for playing…and good luck with YOUR jesus saving you….
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:33pmjoe;
“true, I can read what your church writes”
But what you obviosly cannot do is distinguish what the LDS Church writes from what individuals withing the LDS Church write. You cited no LDS source of doctrine. None. “Mormon Doctrine”? nope. no Mormon Doctrine. Journal of Discourse? nope. Not Mormon doctrine. “Jesus the Christ”? While not official Mormon Doctrine it is close to it.
James E. Talmage was asked by the First Presidency to write that book and, unlike the former two which have absolutely no relation with LDS doctrine and therefore nothing to do with itas faith or worship, what Talmage said is LDS doctrine. But if Jesus is not a being of flesh and bone then could you show me biblicly when jesus got rid of His resurrected body? Please? If you do I’ll believe you. If you want ot cite that “God is a spirit” I’ll ask to to first ponder and prepare to answer: 1) Is that before or after Christi’s reurrection? 2) Arent’ you and I spirit?
Thanks in advance. Keep up with your reading. Just try and develope your own gift of discernment.
Report Post »FranciscoDAnconia
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:42pmJOE-
I would rather spend an eternity in your fictional hell than be anywhere near such an incompetent ignorant, bigot like yourself. Everyone who thinks differently than you goes to hell. Great concept genius. Sounds like a just god doesn’t it. Let me know when your step out of your bubble because I have news for you, not everyone in the world has heard of Jesus Christ. So I guess the people that haven’t are going to hell. All be hanging out with them while your playing the harp with the rest of the angels. Glad I could be somewhere warm maybe all get a tan. Pray for me will you captain enlightenment.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:22pmjoe;
“really? I missed that verse…can you post it for me? ”
I thought you knew your Bible: ” 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” (Mark 16). do Jews believe? Were they baptized? They used to be forced to be baptized but that’s proven to be quite the fallible practice. While the LDS absolutely believe in this Bible verse, it is unique in that the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ has revealed to man how all of God’s children will hear of the word of Christ and have their own opportunity to accept Him.
So, do you believe in the words of Jesus in Mark 16:16? I think you do and so how are Jews saved?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:07pm“But what you obviosly cannot do is distinguish what the LDS Church writes from what individuals withing the LDS Church write.”
yeah it keep changing all the time….like polygamy…and changing the words of your holy book…
With such testimony from angelic beings affirming the accuracy of the Book of Mormon—a translation which is seen to be “the most correct of any book on earth,” one wonders how any errors could have crept into the original 1830 edition. Yet, the “Brief Explanation” introduction found in current editions notes:
“About this edition: Some minor errors in the text have been perpetuated in past editions of the Book of Mormon. This edition contains corrections that seem appropriate to bring the material into conformity with prepublication manuscripts and early editions edited by the Prophet Joseph Smith.”—1981 ed.
http://4mormon.org/mormon-church-true.php#translation
joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:09pmfrom the same source…
In his book Address to All Believers in Christ, David Whitmer (who was one of the “Three Witnesses” in the Book of Mormon) described the process Joseph Smith employed in translating the Book of Mormon from the gold plates. 3. According to Whitmer, Joseph Smith was able to obtain an exact translation of the “reformed Egyptian” by use of a “seer stone” in which the individual characters and specific words appeared before his eyes. Such an exact translation does not leave room for any corrections or even spelling errors! Yet, from the original 1830 edition to the present day editions, over 4,000 changes have been counted and contrary to LDS claims, not all of them have been “minor.”
Doctrinal changes such as the one at 1 Nephi 13:40 in which “the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father” has been changed to read “the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father.” 4. leaves one to doubt the validity of LDS claims regarding its accuracy.
oooopss…but thats OK, you’re used to following false prophets…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:14pmI would rather spend an eternity in your fictional hell than be anywhere near such an incompetent ignorant, bigot like yourself.”
well I hope you get your wish you hate-filled ignorant wacko.
” Everyone who thinks differently than you goes to hell. Great concept genius.”
you obviously don’t think very much at all there gomer.
“Sounds like a just god doesn’t it. Let me know when your step out of your bubble because I have news for you, not everyone in the world has heard of Jesus Christ.”
I have news for you, you’re dumb as a box of rocks…but then thats not news to you is it now?
” So I guess the people that haven’t are going to hell. ”
yeah ignorant morons like you would say something like that…I would explain it to you, but I don’t like casting pearls before swine…
“Glad I could be somewhere warm maybe all get a tan.”
never get between a fool and the fire…enjoy!!!
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:22pm“While the LDS absolutely believe in this Bible verse, it is unique in that the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ has revealed to man how all of God’s children will hear of the word of Christ and have their own opportunity to accept Him. ”
this is more BS.
romans 8
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
God has decided who will be saved from before the world existed…and He will lose none of them.. He will reveal Himself to them….that includes those before Jesus came to earth, like Melchezedik (sp?)
Ephesians 1;
5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
His will will be done…learn the lesson of jacob and esau…
Romans 9:
10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:30pm14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
Report Post »and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”[i]
Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 9:45pmJoe;
LDS doctrine has change maybe a few times during its existence. It’s one of the most constant things in the world. And when it does change there is much struggle to commune with the Lord regarding the doctrine, if it changes, and then to what. Changes in the Book of Mormon have been done the vast majority of the time from grammar errors in the printing process. The LDS Church did not own any printing press machinery and so it was liscenced out. Back in the day each letter had to be set and coppied onto a sheet of paper. It was also expensive so it was highly impractible to change every error every time one was found. Other changes were to move away from the Hebrew styule in writing to a more modern-times English one.
Finally, as you noted, minor changes were made in 1981 to reflect Joseph Smith’s manuscripts. This does not change it being “the most correct of any book”. In fact, changes inthe Book of mormon is miniscule compared ot changes of biblical translations.
Don‘t blame the LDS Church if you don’t understand what is doctrine and what is not. That’s your ignorance, not the Church’s. If you would like to understand it I’m 100% willing to help you understand it. Iv’e done so with others and would be glad to do so with you. So, if you would like to know, just ask. You’ll probably learn more by asking than by casting blame.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:06pmJoe;
it’s great that you can spew out tons of scriptures and talk about predestination but I believe I aksed four simple questions. Here they are again. I combined two questions into one in #3.
1) Do you believe in Mark 16:16? This says, ” 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
2) Do Jews believe and are they baptized?
3) So, do you believe in the words of Jesus in Mark 16:16?
4) How are Jews saved?
So, it’s great that you believe in predestined salvation, the Calvinists did as well as I recall but my question, and I believe I phrased it quite clearly, was focused on the need to believe in Christ and be baptized. Those who are not will be damned according to Mark 16:16. Do you believe this?
Note that there is no need to cite anything else in the Bible unrelated to answering your belief that the Jews need to believe in Christ and be baptized in order to be saved. If so, how do you think that will be done?
Report Post »HankScram
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:10pm@joe1234 has studied scripture and is very knowledgeable. @Darren is full of excuses about why you shouldn‘t pay attention to Joseph Smith and Brigham Young’s sermons. He doesn’t want any accountability for mormOn leaders the past 150 years. You should learn from joe1234. Btw, how many witnesses to the golden plates left or were kicked out of the mormon church? Why did Joseph Smith’s wife and son leave too?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:12pm“LDS doctrine has change maybe a few times during its existence. It’s one of the most constant things in the world. And when it does change there is much struggle to commune with the Lord regarding the doctrine, ”
yeah I know, the god of the mormon changes….the God of the bible does not.
“Don‘t blame the LDS Church if you don’t understand what is doctrine and what is not. That’s your ignorance, not the Church’s. If you would like to understand it I’m 100% willing to help you understand it. Iv’e done so with others and would be glad to do so with you. So, if you would like to know, just ask. You’ll probably learn more by asking than by casting blame.”
I don‘t ’blame’ the mormon church…I find their arrogance, in their belief that only they are the TRUE church emblematic of a cult. their twisting of scripture is another sign of a pseudo-christian cult…I feel sorry for people like you blinded by their lies…and willing to follow false prophets…may the real God of the bible have mercy on your soul.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:20pm“How are Jews saved?”
the same way everyone else is saved…through the work of Christ….no surprise you don’t understand the story of Jacob and Esau… the Lord knows who are His, and He saves them.
and no you don’t have to be baptized to be saved…see the thief on the cross…we’ve gone over this before…its one of your false mormon doctrines of salvation by works that you have to be baptized…
“I believe I phrased it quite clearly, was focused on the need to believe in Christ and be baptized. Those who are not will be damned according to Mark 16:16. Do you believe this?”
so how was Abraham saved then hmmmm??? Jesus didn’t die on the cross for another 2,000 years…
give you a hint, Abraham was saved by the same way we are…the work of Jesus….nothing abraham did….yet he was just as saved when he was alive as we are…as Job said…
so no there is no chance after people die…and if mormons believe this, its just another false doctrine.
Job 19:26
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
how did Job know this? he was even before Abraham…more than 2000 years before Jesus died on the cross….
God saves those who are His. and He saves them…He doesn’t need our help…see Paul….
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:22pm“@joe1234 has studied scripture and is very knowledgeable. @Darren is full of excuses about why you shouldn‘t pay attention to Joseph Smith and Brigham Young’s sermons. He doesn’t want any accountability for mormOn leaders the past 150 years. You should learn from joe1234. Btw, how many witnesses to the golden plates left or were kicked out of the mormon church? Why did Joseph Smith’s wife and son leave too?”
thank you…and very true….
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:31pmoh and this isn‘t a ’minor’ change..
Doctrinal changes such as the one at 1 Nephi 13:40 in which “the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father” has been changed to read “the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father.” 4. leaves one to doubt the validity of LDS claims regarding its accuracy.
you totally changed the meaning of the verse…
just like with the doctrine of polygamy…totally changed…like the racist mormon doctrine that blacks couldn’t become priests…
I don’t see how anyone can follow a church with a history of false prophets and changing doctrine like this….
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 1:01amJoe or whoever hijacked Joe’s account this time.. The Old Testament is not the entire historyof humanity much less polygamy at the time. How many wives and concubines did Solomon have?
To say that Christ is enough and if you say we make our choice if we just walk away or not is tantamount to saying if you just say“Jesus” you do not have to worry about accountability for any of the actions you take for th rest of your life.
I see you armed with an arsenal of the same old hogwash I have heard in the South. I stand with my true countrymen and will pray with and for anyone. I beseech you to commit to the same.
Darren… Good job man.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 7:49amJoe… Mormons do indeed know the story of Jacob and Esau. Do you even know the story of Isaac and Ishmael?
Patriarchial blessings are still an important part of the Mormon Christian Faith.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 3:13pm“Joe or whoever hijacked Joe’s account this time.. The Old Testament is not the entire historyof humanity much less polygamy at the time. How many wives and concubines did Solomon have? ”
lots…and look what it did to him…polygamy degrades women…oh yeah you‘ll be a ’god’ (in your dreams) but your many concubines ‘spirit women’ won’t be godesses…what a joke.
just like the racism of your mormon church….wouldn’t let black people become priests….clearly contradicting the bible….and then your false mormon god changed his mind in the 70s…what a joke.
you follow false prophets and gods who change their mind…you’re not christian, you’re polytheists.
“To say that Christ is enough and if you say we make our choice if we just walk away or not is tantamount to saying if you just say“Jesus” you do not have to worry about accountability for any of the actions you take for th rest of your life. ”
Yeah Christ is enough. didn‘t say we don’t have accountability…nice lie…you mormons tend to do that quite a lot. hey good luck working your way to ‘exaltation’
“I see you armed with an arsenal of the same old hogwash I have heard in the South. I stand with my true countrymen and will pray with and for anyone. I beseech you to commit to the same.”
I see you’re armed with the same old arsenal of lies and deceit….what gods do you pray to?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 3:15pm“Joe… Mormons do indeed know the story of Jacob and Esau. Do you even know the story of Isaac and Ishmael?”
yeah but you sure don’t understand it….obviously….good luck working your way to heaven…better get baptized a few more times…see if that will work!
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:11amJoe.. If you read my posts you will see I never said I was one. But I do know a heck of a lot more about them than you do. Also I am not a hypocritical bigot.
The “Mormon God” as you like to call him does not change. Changes to policy, however, are given through revelation through a living Prophet according to their belief. This is acceptable just as much so as the Law was when it was given to Moses which would also have been looked at as a CHANGE IN THEIR CURRENT STANDING RULES AND LAWS. If they were not given such as instruction on what was not clean to eat, the Israelites would have gotten all manner of sicknesses we even see today from consuming undercooked meat, microorganisms in shellfish, eating animals that died as opposed to slaughtering healthy ones, etc. Biblically speaking, God has given direction through revelation when needed to help humanity. You apparently see that as a changing God when it suits your argument.
Get over it. You and Webpreacher both. The actions of Mormons as their belief system do not define them as a cult. Neither are they a protestant Christian religion. They are Christian, however, no matter how you personally choose to try and insult them. By the way, Faith without works is dead.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:36amJoe.. I see from you a lot of judging others not interpreting scriptures your way leading you to condemn people to Hell. I am not sure you are as knowledgable of the Bible as you seem to beag that you are. There is a lot to understand about the Patriarch Abraham and his sons Ishmael ans Isaac. I find it interesting that you say you understand everything about it and Mormons understand nothing about it. In other posts you have actually seemed half way reasonable and deceptively intelligent. Jacob and Esau are another accounting of grand significance but after seeing your cut and paste attacks spewing false witness against a religion that is Christian… It definitely leaves doubt as to the veracity of any of your arguments. I wish that was not so but alas, you are blatantly and obviously full of hatred and scorn where none should be. Soften your heart and remember that if you indeed wish to have the Spirit of God with you to convince others of the truthfulness of your words then He cannot be with you in your hatred. You will never convince anyone to have a change of heart, much less Faith, with the manner in which you abuse God’s words.
I will pray for you.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:43amJoe… I do wonder if according to your judgement we should classify Mennonites, Amish, Jehovah’s Witness, Christian,Scientists, Seventh Day Adventist, etc. as Christians or cults. Do tell.
Report Post »Leavon
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:42pmTheir religion is classified as a Cult, but at least its not pedophiles scribblings.
Report Post »Latter-Day-Soldier
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:17pmAnd just who has classified the L.D.S. church as a “cult”?
Report Post »neocon1
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:30pmummmm the Christian bible….
Report Post »sister1_rm
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:56pm@DNEWTON
How interesting. I don’t recall where in the Bible it says the Mormons or the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Letter-day Saints is a cult. Please give me the reference and which translation of the Bible I can find it in. I can’t seem to find it in the King James Version, maybe it’s in yours?
Report Post »Trex
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:27pmFunny thing is the word Christian is only in the bible three times. Each time, read in context it sounds like it’s talking about people just like Mormons. Imagine that.
Report Post »Latter-Day-Soldier
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 3:48am@Neocon1:
Report Post »uuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmm your talking out of total ignorance, see Sister1_rm’s comment directly below.
@Sister1_RM: Great post and very well said.
NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 6:49amNeo… The Bible, yes the same one most other Christians use as does the Mormon or LDS religion doe not classify a cult anywhere much less Mormons in specific. Meet a Mormon sometime and you, too thencan see the fruits of their labor defining their character. Then maybe you should pray and ask God if you are being deceived by a cultist. I would be very interested to know how that turns out for you. Good luck to you!
Report Post »capecodsully
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:40pmWhen satans faithful come to chop my head off, I will be standing shoulder to shoulder with Christians of all denominations as well as my Jewish brothers and sisters. I doubt if I’ll be taking time out to disagree over differences in theology. Maybe back in the day they had nothing better to do than slam each other on differences, but I think this is a new day.
Report Post »Tim Law
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:13pmAmen brother or sister. It‘s time all Christian’s stand together. If we believe in our LORD JESUS and try to live our lives accordingly then we will all be saved. The LORD can read the hearts of men. If your heart is in the LORD and the LORD is in your heart. Then you are saved and will remain in the LORD forever. Amen
Report Post »rdietz7
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:25pmThe problem in what you just said is the theological misunderstanding. Trust me if Satan is going to attack Christians you won’t be surrounded by Mormons, Jews and Catholics. There faith in man made religion would never give them the amount of faith required to stare true evil down. As a matter of fact, if you ever find yourself in that predicament Satan will get one of those religions to do his bidding in decapitations of Christians. Love them but you gotta know where you stand if you are truly following Christ. If not, I‘ll have to watch out for fakers like yourself doing Satan’s bidding.
Report Post »capecodsully
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:53pmRDIETZ7 – Judaism is a man made religion? Your “faking” right? Holy crap.
Report Post »rdietz7
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:53pmI guarantee you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to Judaism. Jews that don’t have a relationship with Christ are the rake of society. Almost all Jews are Dems, voted for Obama, cable in New age cults, are purely ritualistic and they think they are better than say, WASP’s.
I believe in standing with Israel as far asthem being a US ally.but as far as the Jewish religion is concerned, it obsolete and irrelevant.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 7:17amRDIETZ7… The Israeli Jews could not and most would not have voted for that socialist even if they could have. Many American Jews have expressed buyer’s remorse over electing Barry. The last time socialists had dominion over Jews oh only 7,000,000 of them lost their lives before our progressive socialist President got involved after turning away thousands of refugees from Germany. We were lucky Einstein was not among those turned away. That President refused to get involved in a world war already underway until Pearl Harbor. I have pondered long over why American Jews have voted democrat alongside people who hate them, are the worst anti-semites, and have none of the same values but evenafter directly inquiring from several American Jews can only deduce that they do it out of misguided and misplaced loyalty for the democrat (progressive socialist) party that “rescued” them from the fascist socialists. This is akin to anarchists organizing with socialists on Wall Street. It makes no sense.
Jews are still relevant because they are still God’s chosen people from whose loins Christ was born into the world and they were to be made example of if they follow their doctrine and be blessed abundantly when righteous and cursed and hated when they do not. Yet another testament that God is real and fulfills revelation He has given to us through scripture. They will also have a part to play in the Second Coming.
I simply don’t see your logic in stating that Jews are irrelevant
Report Post »Jason K
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:37pmWell, at least the Catholics and the Mormons claim divine origins rather than tracing their roots to someone who got sick of what they grew up with and started their own cults. Oops….did I say that out loud?
It is often better to say nothing than to expose your ignorance.
Report Post »KEL
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:36pmMormons are good hard working people, but mormonism rejects sound biblical doctrine of christian faith, this matters to a christian, and somebody needs to say it. That not bigotry, thats an honest conversation. The Founders that laid the Great Republic were not mormons, they were christians.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:44pmI have an extremely difficult time in accepting that the Founding GFathers would offer fear-provoking rhetoric against the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints had Mormonism existed from the beginning of this nation. Several did openly reject many forms of Christianity and I’ve no doubt many would have rejected Mormonism. But not accepting other religions is different from conveying fear of other religions.
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:44pmChrist‘s Church wasn’t restored until 1831. How could the founders have been MORMON?
Secondly, up until 1790 NOBODY ON PLANET EARTH HAD ULTIMATE FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
Naturally the first amendment would have to be passed in order for Christ’s TRUE Church to be restored. Even with that beautiful Amendment, The Prophet Joseph Smith was butchered after being falsely imprisoned, but the Church survived!
Report Post »skellmeyer
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:52pmDarren,
The Founding Fathers absolutely engaged in fear-mongering against Catholics: in 1788, John Jay urged the New York Legislature to require office-holders to renounce foreign authorities “in all matters ecclesiastical as well as civil.”.Thomas Jefferson wrote: “History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government,” and, “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.”
I’m sure they would have felt the same way about Mormons.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:01pm“Christ‘s Church wasn’t restored until 1831. How could the founders have been MORMON?”
so why do you want to call yourselves christian…since the rest of us ‘apostates’ have been calling ourselves that for 2000 YEARS?? hmmmm???
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:06pmYou guys called us Mormons. That’s just a nickname. We are Christians, Saints, and true believers in The Lord Jesus Christ. You might not think so but that‘s only because you haven’t “tested the spirits”
PEACE!
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:11pmJoe, God only holds us responsible for things we know. Prophesy is never ending. He gives us what we need, when we need it. This is why he gives us Prophets. Without a Prophet giving constant revelation, The Church can’t last more than a day. How long did it last after the Apostle John died?(unless you’re Catholic)
Amos 3:7
Report Post »Surely the Lord GOD will do NOTHING, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:17pm“. You might not think so but that‘s only because you haven’t “tested the spirits” ”
uh yeah we do test the spirits…its why we don’t consider mormons christians…
“Prophesy is never ending. He gives us what we need, when we need it. This is why he gives us Prophets.”
why do you follow false prophets then?
“Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.”
didn’t happen.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:58pmSkell;
“in 1788, John Jay urged the New York Legislature to require office-holders to renounce foreign authorities “in all matters ecclesiastical as well as civil.”
I do not find that “fear-provoking” but prudent. Perhaps there’s some context which I do not know about.
Report Post »HankScram
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:57pmMormons have no connection to the Founders. Mormons taught all other religions were an abomination. Thus, the religious founders who ensured Christian values were the bedrock of this Country – they were involved in an “abomination.”. Sorry Joseph Smith. The Christian faith of many of our Founders was not an abomination.
Report Post »godhead
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:36pmBill Bennett as the arbiter of righteousness. That’s a good one. Somebody should quote him some scripture on the evils of gambling.
Hey, wasn’t he a czar? Well, by gosh by golly, I do believe he was. Communist! Marxist! Fascist! Baby killer!
(My how those empty hypocritical histrionics come back to bite you in the a$$, eh?)
Swim in it, you conservative freaks.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:40pmyou really need professional help.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:40pmIf your life was openly published then i’m sure we can find one or two things naughty about you as well. Bill Bennett should not gamble and Jeffers should not convect fear of Mormonism to others. There are moral reasons to justify noth those declarations.
Report Post »skellmeyer
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:48pmYes, that old evil of gambling!
Using lots to choose things, like the patriarchs or the apostles did, is absolutely evil and prohibited by Scripture, which is why it was a valid way for the apostles to choose a new apostle to fill Judas’ office (Acts 1 & 2).
Oh, wait…
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:58pmYeah, please quote us those scriptures on the evils of gambling, if you can find them. They are unfamiliar to me.
Report Post »godhead
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:19pmYeah, having that self-righteosness of yours torn apart in front of you hurts.
Choosing an apostle? Is that what Bennett was doing? Only if the apostle’s name was Mistress Lee.
Don’t replace god with gambling as your provider.
Proverbs 13:11 Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.
I don’t see that posted anywhere in Vegas.
God, you people have some low standards.
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:35pmThank you Mr. Bennett. You are a TRUE Christian.
Report Post »the hawk
Posted on October 10, 2011 at 10:55amthere is no -one worthy of judging anyone else on this site ! And the like of openmindedness here is unbelieveable . And regligious biass is shamefull you all should concentrate on what you have in common! I dont beileve in the trinity nEVER WILL, BUT i WOULD NEVER SIT HERE AND TELL YOU ALL HOW CLUELESS YOU ARE ! pEACE OUT AND PICK US A PRESIDENT BEFORE IT’S TOLATE! Then we can all to our favorit house’s of worship !
Report Post »Marine 1
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:34pmPastor Jeffress made comments were way out of line and I‘m betting that those remarks will atleast put a dent in Perry’s campaign. Mormons, regardless of what people say, are Chrisitians and I think their “fruits” bear witness of that fact. I think people from other religions are just upset because the Mormon church went from being nothing to something in a relatively short period of time and is now massively wealthy. (That’s probaby due to the collecting of tithes of 10%, offerings and wealthy members like Romney and Beck.) The Mormon church owns it’s own trucking company, storehouses where people can obtain food and other supplies for emergencies, ranches and farms, communications network, and much more. I’m betting that Pastor Jeffress is lucky to have a thousand bucks in the plate when it gets passed every Sunday. No wonder the guy is bashing the Mormon church.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:49pmYou make some good point which i think have much validity. There are those who disdain the LDS Church for being “wealthy” but the fact of the matter is that the wealth produced is used form a whole lot of Christian good in the world. When you donate tothe LDS Church for a cause, like the earthquake in Haiti, you can rest assured that well over 90% of those donations make it to the cause. By owning its own trucking company and by having a nonpaid clergy, overhead costs are slashed to an absolute minimum.
Report Post »neocon1
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:18pmit IS a cult period.
Report Post »captainutah
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:23pmNEOCON1, it’s interesting to me how Darren backs up the points he makes with examples and citations whereas you seem to make absolutist statements without any form of evidence. Just an observation.
Report Post »HankScram
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:04pmDarren,
How much of the tithing by Mormons in England went to charity last year? Nothing. In England Mormon church must disclose finances. Here it doesn’t. We don’t know what Mormon church gives to charity. We do know it just built a 3 billion dollar mall in SLC. I know you‘ll say it didn’t come from tithing. Really? How did the Mormon church get any money to start it’s businesses? Lol
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:13pmHank;
“How much of the tithing by Mormons in England went to charity last year? Nothing.’
Tithing is used for the church. Fast offerings are for external charities.
But do keep enlightening me, sir. Thus far you’ve failed 100% but, hey, if at first you don’t succeed, try and try again that which cause you to fail in the first place.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:30pm“Inserting some levity, Bennett joked that in the debate between Mormons and evangelical Christians, he’s a Catholic and “was there first.”’
That’s funny.
Good job for Bill Bennet. Folks like Joe1234 could learn how to be a better Christain from rebukes like the one Bill Bennet just offered.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:34pmoh yeah please explain…do you mean I should deny what the truth is?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:35pmhow is lying being a better christian?
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:10pmWho asked you to lie? Nobody. Always speak the truth but how you do it is your choice.
Report Post »neocon1
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:19pmjoe you are 100% spot on
Report Post »being PC does not change things, I Love Glenn but it is still a cult.
robspectre
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:29pmRemember, Jesus and his followers were considered a Cult. I am a Proud member of His Cult (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints…aka….MORMONS).
Report Post »neocon1
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:25pmgays are PROUD also….BFD
Report Post »Latter-Day-Soldier
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 4:50amHey Rob,
I too am Mormon, in the military and proud to be serving in both.
Report Post »edie1945
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:24pmPlease, let us not fight among ourselves. Religion is “used” for both good and evil. Those of us that read the Blaze understand that.
Report Post »tess q
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:34pmi agree edie1945, this is the kind of division obama wants. would that be ironic after all of obama‘s make love not war with the muslim’s the right would turn on each other over Mormonism. the left doesn’t act like they like Romney because they think he is center, they like him because they know some will not vote at all if he get’s the nomination because he is Mormon. playing right into the left’s hands, always happens.
Report Post »slr4528
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:55pmGood point.
Report Post »DukeNukemall
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:52pmAmen to that. We have got to defeat the Obamanation of desolation.. If he get’s back in none of us will have a pot to piss in.
Report Post »skellmeyer
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:22pmWell, Jeffress is correct.
Historically, all mainstream Christian denominations (all denominations with any kind of liturgy, so that would include Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, etc.) consider Mormonism a cult.
Most Anabaptist traditions (Baptist, Assemblies of God, etc.) also consider Mormonism a cult (to be fair, the Anabaptist tradition also considers Catholicism a cult).
What is there for Perry to apologize for?
Report Post »Is he sorry that one of his supporters repeated a fact?
Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:35pmI think Perry was correct in distancing himself from Jefferess. And do note that even Jeffress would vote for Romney if he became the GOP nominee.
You’re absolutely correct in that “cult” applies to all freligious denominations. Modern parlance is such that “cult” is used to scare people away from certain religions but the literal meaning of “cult” applies to all religious denominations.
Report Post »FranciscoDAnconia
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:35pmAnd catholics would consider Christianity a cult. It goes both ways genius. And all other atheists would say that all religions are cults. If I asked you how you know the bible was true? I bet you would respond by stating thats “Its true because the bible says its true.” Lol. Lets quit the debate on theology for one minute. This is politics and all evangelicals want to talk about is how their church is true and everyone else’s is false. Please do we really need to get into theological debates. I did this for two years and really don’t feel like getting into it.
Report Post »Doctor Nordo
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:39pmThe problem is the negative connotation that the word “cult” implies. By the truest definition of the word, Mormonism is absolutely a cult, but that is not an insult. Early Christianity was absolutely a cult as well, as any Jew would be glad to tell you.
Cult
1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
So you see, there is nothing insulting regarding the true definition of the word. The problem is that when most people think of cults, they think of crazy fanatics, Jonestown kool-aid drinkers and/or people waiting for the Mothership to arrive.
Jesus Christ was the head of a cult. As a follower of Jesus Christ, if that makes me a cultist then it makes me a cultist and I will not weep over the semantics of the word.
Report Post »skellmeyer
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:47pmCatholics tend to use words according to older meanings. Thus, when a Catholic says “worship”, the word generally means “honor”, in the same sense that an Englishman would address a judge as “Your Worship” instead of “Your Honor.” Ditto for cult – it had an older meaning that was not negative.
However, when an American who is not a Catholic uses the word “cult”, they imply something negative. Most Christian denominations consider Mormonism a cult in the negative sense of the word. Anabaptists consider Catholics a cult in the negative sense of the word.
Apart from Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses and other fringe groups, Catholics do NOT refer to other Christian denominations as cults at all.
Report Post »GKS
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:47pmBill Bennett is a Roman Catholic and he well knows that the Roman Catholic Church considers Mormonism a cult. It is not “Christian” for multiple reasons. Instead, it has its own “scripture” (the Book of Mormon) and a rather bizarre, erotic understanding of Jesus Christ as the particular “God” of this universe who is continually fathering “spirit children” with his wives to populate it. Each Mormon has the ability of being the “God” of another universe and having endless celestial sex with his wives, etc. etc.. Ultimately what one believes is one’s own business but Mormonism is guilty of false advertising. Bennett is guilty of being politically correct, in spite of facts, for the sake of politics and he knows it. Presumably the question at hand is whether someone could seriously believe the Mormon “reality” and be the president of the nation. It is a very valid concern.
Report Post »Mandors
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:53pmCommon guys, Jeffress was using the term “cult” to marginalize Romney on the basis of his beliefs. Semantics don’t play out in this instance. Connotation not denotation.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:09pmJeffress is right about the religious nature of mormonism. Bennett is right that such divisive comment have no business in a political forum when we should be gathering men of good will of ALL creeds together. The political division should not be between Christian and Jew, Protestant and Catholic, Mormon and Evangelical, but between those who embrace the need for faith in civic affairs and those who are hostile to vibrant faith.
But Bennett was wrong to characterize Jefress’ statements as “bigotry”. That language also serves no useful purpose and tends to encourage the belief that serious doctrinal distinctions are erroneous rather than just irrelevant to the political needs of the occasion. As a Christian I dislike Judaism as being a false understanding of the meaning of the Law. That is not bigotry. That is Christian theology. I believe that Muhammda and Joseph Smith were both false prophets. Again that is not bigotry. Mormons believe that the church corrupted the faith in the 4th century. That is also not bigotry. It is historically ignorant, but not bigotted. :-)
Let’s be honest about our own beliefs and how much we disagree, rather vehemently, on matters of faith, yet at the same time showing that we can work together on the lesser matters of this world and treat each other as brothers under Adam, if not in Christ.
Report Post »Mandors
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:11pmGKS, You are incorrect. The Church views LDS as a “sect” of Christianity, like Baptists, Lutherans and other Protestants churches. “Sect” is not equivalent at all to cult, but rather is an old term originally used to differentiate early Christian groups.
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:12pmWell the SBC also believes the Earth is 6000 years old so we already know they aren’t exactly right in the head.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:18pm@Islesfordian very true!!
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:08pmIsles;
Like Jeffers using “cults” connotates fear I do agree that Bennett should perhaps avoid the usage of “bigoted” for the same reason.
Report Post »FranciscoDAnconia
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:29pmJoe123456789,
I guess all mormons are going to hell anyways right? Anybody that thinks differently than you is going to spend eternity in scorching fire. Sounds like a convenient belief system to make others compelled to listen. Good luck with your bible thumping. All take my Jesus and you can take yours. We will see who is at the pearly gates in the end. “By their fruits ye shall know them.”
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:10pm“. We will see who is at the pearly gates in the end. “By their fruits ye shall know them.””
thats right we will…we’ll see if your fictional jesus can save you…but your other mormon friends told me jesus saves everyone….so who is lying? you or other mormons? hmmmm??
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:17pmHe sure is right that Jeffress “did Rick Perry no good” — Perry is tanking like I have never seen and he is desperate. Perry knows Jeffress very well. He knew what Jeffress was going to say. Yet another Perry blunder.
Report Post »Also, I very much liked Bennett’s quoting Washington as I had never heard that particular quote. Especially interesting that Washington spoke against RACIAL bigotry as well as religious bigotry.
joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:21pmwhats bigotry about telling the truth?
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:38pmJoe;
Jeffers did speak the truth in a literal sense. Mormonism is a cult. Read Skellmeyer’s post and find out exactly why.
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:56pmFortunately, Bill Bennett did Mr. Perry no good either. Nothing could make Perry look worse than someone else saying exactly what he should have said the first time he got a chance to comment on the incident.
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 11:46amGood point, Chet.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:17pmbennet is a catholic…wonder if he knows what the catholics say about mormonism??
While the Catholic Church would reject nothing that is true or good in Mormonism or any other world religion, Catholic theology would have to note that there is a tremendous amount in Mormonism that is neither true nor good. Further, because Mormonism presents itself as a form of Christianity yet is incompatible with the historic Christian faith, sound pastoral practice would need to warn the Christian faithful: Mormon theology is blasphemous, polytheistic, and cannot be considered on par with the theology of other Christian groups.
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-does-the-catholic-church-say-about-the-practices-and-beliefs-of-mormonism
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:28pmWho cares what some Catholics say about Mormonism? If certain Catholics whish to condemn their own early Christian fathers as not being Christian then, let them. I really don’t care.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:32pmdarren, they’re not the only christian group that denies mormonism is christian…just the largest…you can babble on and on about the ‘church fathers’ all you want…mormonism is not christian…sorry.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:33pmoh yeah ‘certain catholics’ LOL catholic.com…just a few huh?
Report Post »FreedomMissMeYet
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:36pmReal relevant @Joe. If you actually watched the man’s talk to the end, you’d see it has nothing to do with denomination, but rather the underlying Judeo-Christian Principles that many denominations have in common. They happened to be the same principles that this country was founded on.
Report Post »FranciscoDAnconia
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:38pmJoe- Did you just graduate from High School? Christians don’t like Catholicism at all. Christians only think they are christian even though its Catholics that introduced Christianity to the world. To be honest with you, I have spoken with hundreds of Christian pastors. I know what they think and believe me they all have different philosophical doctrines. Lets be honest with each other for a minute. Trying to discredit the tooth fairy in the name of Santa Clause is a little bit childish don’t you think? If you can’t understand the metaphor than you really are benighted.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:39pmthe truth is always relevent, don’t you agree?
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:41pmYeah, let’s all wonder what othher people have to say. That’s what Christ wants us to do.lol
Take your stupid links somewhere else…
Report Post »FranciscoDAnconia
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:48pmJoe1234-
Joe I hate to say this but you are coming off as a redneck, bigoted, unintelligent, and blindly ignorant. You don’t need to cause fighting within the conservative party. Picking a fight with the Mormons is a fight you can’t win buddy. Sorry to tell you this but the Mormons are here to stay okay. Even if they believe hat Jesus and satan are brothers ha ha. Do you really think that Mormons care what you think of them. Go play on your tractor and memorize more bible scriptures so that you can debate with the Mormon missionaries next time they are around. Why don’t you put a tattoo right on your forehead that reads “Mormons are cults” and see if people care.
Report Post »neilacardwell
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:50pmJoe,
I believe in the Christ that atoned for my sins on the cross and for the sins of all. I believe in the christ who lives again and who will return. I believe in the christ who teaches us to love our neighbors and our enemies.
Which Christ do you believe in that would make the christ I believe in as a mormon different than yours.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:55pm“Joe I hate to say this but you are coming off as a redneck, bigoted, unintelligent, and blindly ignorant. ”
you may want to take the log out of your eye before you take the spec out of mine…so are you calling the catholic church that?
“Picking a fight with the Mormons is a fight you can’t win buddy. Sorry to tell you this but the Mormons are here to stay okay”
the mormons decided to ‘pick a fight’ with the rest of christians a long time ago…according to them we’re all apostate, they’re the only true church.
“Do you really think that Mormons care what you think of them”
given the reaction from people like you yeah I sure do…its obvious the truth hurts.
“Why don’t you put a tattoo right on your forehead that reads “Mormons are cults” and see if people care.”
I‘m bettin you’re the one who will be getting a mark on your forehead…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:57pm“Take your stupid links somewhere else…”
more luv from the mormons I see…yeah you all are SUCH good christians….
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:59pmNeal, I believe in the Jesus of the bible, who is part of the Triune God…He is the creator of all things…no gods before none after…He is eternal, not created.
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:14pmJoe, what I said might have been wrong, but you sure do hold a “cult” to a high standard.
“Take your stupid link somewhere else?” A little over the top, but certainly not satanic. With that being said, I apologize.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:21pmjoe;
Yes “some Catholics”. “Catholic.com”, though very accurate in professing the Catholic faith, is not an official part of the Roman Catholic Church as I understand it. That site probably has a couple dozen regular posters and in light of the over one billion members the Roman Catholic Church has then, I think “some” is a correct assessment. Feel free to disagree.
Catholics also see all other forms of Christian denominations as apostate. That the Holy romnan Cahtolic Church is the one true church in the world.
And, yes, I stand by the naotion that they are only condemning their own early Christian Fathers, some of which are saints within the Catholic Church, taught Christ being separate from the Father and a servant to the Father as well as Christ’s purpose being to make us like Him (deification). Both of which were latter condemned as heretic. The Catholic Church is well aware of this fact and if they condemn Mormonism for teaching the separation of the Father and the Son and for deification, then so be it. I really don’t care.
What matters is that the Holy Spirit tells me, and has told me man times, that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is Gods true church on earth today. Whatever man says against that is irrelevant to me.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:24pmBrian, thank you, thats very nice of you…..I hope francis is not a mormon…
you know I don’t mind a few insults…I tend to insult left-wing wackos regularly….I really have nothing against mormons personally…I like them, the ones I have known are very nice….but I think its important to proclaim the truth…I’m not catholic, for example…but Bennet is.
the pastor probably shouldn’t have talked about this in a poltical gathering…it wasn’t appropriate…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:27pm“Catholics also see all other forms of Christian denominations as apostate. That the Holy romnan Cahtolic Church is the one true church in the world. ”
they don’t see us as apostate…just not as ‘complete’ as the roman church…I disagree with catholics about quite a few things, but I still see them as christian…they believe in the Trinity…which is the one issue that sets apart christians from those who are not. more than any other issue…its the nature of God Himself that matters….as Jesus said…who do you say I am?
who is He?? is He a created being, or the Eternal God of the Universe? the great I AM…who spoke and the world existed….the alpha and omega…no gods before…none after…(isaiah 43:10)
its the central question that we all face in life…the answer is very important…..
and look Smith is a false prophet…how can you follow a false prophet?
Report Post »neocon1
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:38pm“how can you follow a false prophet?”
you cant UNLESS……..
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:19pmJoe;
Martin Luther saw the Catholic Church as having apostasized from the scriptures and sought to reform the Catholic faith from within. He did not intend on creating an external gropu of Christians who became known as Protestants. The Roman Catholic Church absolutely views Protestants as apostates. Though recent moves to bring them into communion does depart a bit from that position as I understand it. Whatever they say regarding Mormonism means nothing to me. i will stand up for what I believe, and know by God’s Holy Spirit, to be correct, but whatever they view as Mormonism to be makes no difference to me.
(con’t)
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:31pm(con’t);
Yes, the Bible does teach there is one God. mormons absolutely view the Father, the Son, and the hoyl Ghost as “One Eternal God” but just because it takes, for example, ‘ 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:” (Ephisians 3) and, ” 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,” (Acts 7) as literal, how is that unChristian and how is it being unbiblical? Taking them literally does go against the grain of traditional Christianity, but how is it unChristian or unbiblical in its nature?
Now, regarding your denouncing Brian and his unloving words: unless you now renounce, or show how you have already renounced (or if it was your clone “joei”), or apologize, for your having previously called me a liar and a follower of Satan (the father of lies) on another post, then I find that you are living a double standard when it comes to integrity. I think you’re an overall good person but you brought up standardss of decency with Brian and Francis.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:31pm“unless you now renounce, or show how you have already renounced (or if it was your clone “joei”), or apologize, for your having previously called me a liar and a follower of Satan (the father of lies) on another post, then I find that you are living a double standard when it comes to integrity.”
why? when you lied repeatedly in that thread.
as far as mormons believing in the trinity…right..
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. “That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).
“And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3).
the Trinity is One God in 3 persons…mormons use the same words, but twist the meaning of the words.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:32pmdarren, I also notice you didn’t dispute that smith is a false prophet…again why do you follow a false prophet?
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:01pmJoe;
“why? when you lied repeatedly in that thread. ”
No. When you called me a liar for having a different theological point of the bible. What you did there is more egregious than what Brian and Francis did here. And Brian did what was right here.
“as far as mormons believing in the trinity…right..”
They don’t believe in the “Holy Trinity” in its traditional sense but “One Eternal God”.
” 28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.” (Doctrine and Covenants 20).
By your own standards I should call you a liar in that you just lied about me. But I didn’t, nor would I.
Yes, Mormonism does have a unique, modern-day, application to theology. That is no secret, nor in dispute; but how is interpreting Ephesians 3:9 and Act 7;55 literally not Christian or unbiblical?
“darren, I also notice you didn’t dispute that smith is a false prophet…”
Yes, after all I’ve said it is just so logical to conclude that I think Joseph Smith is a false prophet.
/sarc off
So, how is interpreting Ephesians 3:9 and Act 7;55 literally not Christian or unbiblical?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:12pm“No. When you called me a liar for having a different theological point of the bible. What you did there is more egregious than what Brian and Francis did here. And Brian did what was right here.”
now you see why I called you a liar.
“in its traditional sense but “One Eternal God”.”
you don’t believe in one eternal god..
.God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s…” (D&C 130:22).
God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3).
.”God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see,” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).
.God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105).
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:13pm“Yes, after all I’ve said it is just so logical to conclude that I think Joseph Smith is a false prophet.”
Smith is a false prophet…
“Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
wrong
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:20pm“Yes, Mormonism does have a unique, modern-day, application to theology. That is no secret, nor in dispute;”
yeah and EVERYONE else was wrong for 2,000 years until that false prophet smith came along….right.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:40pm“now you see why I called you a liar.”
And I also see that you held Brian’s indescrete rudness as ameans to judge his Christianity. You said I lied against Jesus and therefore I follow Satan. What’s worse, being called “stupid” or a servant of Satan. I’m perfectly content ot allow all others to read this and judge for themselves.
Journal of Discourse is NOT MORMON DOCTRINE. By your standards you should now be called a liar and a servant of Satan. But that’s *your* standards; not mine (yet). Whatever was spoken about inthe JoD is NOT to be considered as part ofthe LDS faith or worship. Same goes for “Church History”.
Doctrine and covenants is LDS doctrine as well as the Bible. So, again, please: 1) Show me biblicly when Jesus got rid of His resurrected body. 2) How is interpreting Ephesians 3:9 and Act 7;55 literally not Christian or unbiblical?
You don’t have to use Journal of Discourse, Mormon Doctrine, Jesus the Christ, just the Holy Bible which you know well.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:43pmjoe;
Just for clarity, here‘s what i wrote to you in TrueBlue68’s post:
[QUOTE]
But what you obviosly cannot do is distinguish what the LDS Church writes from what individuals withing the LDS Church write. You cited no LDS source of doctrine. None. “Mormon Doctrine”? nope. no Mormon Doctrine. Journal of Discourse? nope. Not Mormon doctrine. “Jesus the Christ”? While not official Mormon Doctrine it is close to it.
James E. Talmage was asked by the First Presidency to write that book and, unlike the former two which have absolutely no relation with LDS doctrine and therefore nothing to do with itas faith or worship, what Talmage said is LDS doctrine. But if Jesus is not a being of flesh and bone then could you show me biblicly when jesus got rid of His resurrected body? Please? If you do I’ll believe you. If you want ot cite that “God is a spirit” I’ll ask to to first ponder and prepare to answer: 1) Is that before or after Christi’s reurrection? 2) Arent’ you and I spirit?
Thanks in advance. Keep up with your reading. Just try and develope your own gift of discernment.
[END QUOTE]
(con’t)
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:06pm(con’t);
More than once you have asked how Chritians have been wrong for 2,00 years until the restoration. Consider the following:
1) martin Luther came mid millenia and declared God’s truth. To reform Christianity to me more like it was anciently. Should we simply go around and say that Christianity was wrong for 1,500 years or that corruption happened over time? i say the latter but you’re free to choose the best answer for yourself. But do share your conclusions. We’re all friends here.
2) “11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.” (Amos 8). This prophecy of a famine ofthe Word of God, which the Lord God Himself would send is known as the Great Apostacy in the LDS Church. As you well know, the word of God has always been among men yet here is a prophecy of a time where no matter where one travels, one will not find it. So it‘s not the literal absence of God’s word but rather man‘s interpretation of God’s word so deviating the word of God as to make it unrecognizable. Such a famine could and was resolved through the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
(con’t)
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:08pmjoe (con’t);
So…1) Show me biblicly when Jesus got rid of His resurrected body. 2) How is interpreting Ephesians 3:9 and Act 7;55 literally not Christian or unbiblical?
Thanks in advance for your answers.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:49pm“And I also see that you held Brian’s indescrete rudness as ameans to judge his Christianity. You said I lied against Jesus and therefore I follow Satan. What’s worse, being called “stupid” or a servant of Satan. I’m perfectly content ot allow all others to read this and judge for themselves.”
well people can look at that thread and judge for themselves….I don’t remember what you said exactly, your words aren’t that memorable…sorry….so why are you posting to me at all then?
“Journal of Discourse is NOT MORMON DOCTRINE. ”
oh yes, here we go again…its NEVER mormon doctrine until YOU say it is…right. your church has changed it story so many times….like how black people were second class citizens…unable to become priests…then SHAZAM the mormon god spoke in the 70s an all of sudden they could become priests……your god changes his mind….
“just the Holy Bible which you know well.”
this is just laughable….you can’t use the bible, because you disagree with the bible…..remember mormons only use the bible as its ‘properly translated’ in other words you ignore what you disagree with.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:01pm“martin Luther came mid millenia and declared God’s truth. To reform Christianity to me more like it was anciently. Should we simply go around and say that Christianity was wrong for 1,500 years or that corruption happened over time? ”
uh it wasn’t wrong for 1,500 years…the catholic church kept the essential doctrines of the faith…they just added things onto it…but they believed in the Trinity for example…mormons do not…
“This prophecy of a famine ofthe Word of God, which the Lord God Himself would send is known as the Great Apostacy in the LDS Church”
this is such BS. you twist the word of God for your own purposes…that prophecy was never meant for you…rather the children of Israel..and you are not a jew. you consider us apostate…yet you want to claim to be christians…its laughable…
as far as Ephesians 3:9 Paul was talking about himself…read 3:8…and the gospel…not about mormons…you twist the scripture with your false prophets…and you claim people are apostles..and they are not…the apostles saw the risen christ…none of your deceivers saw the risen christ.
Acts 7:55…again you distort what it says…Jesus standing next to God…yes 3 persons ONE GOD..how hard is this?
you mormons have a god in your own image…its why you think you’ll become gods….keep dreaming.
Report Post »HankScram
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:22pmMormons crave acceptance by Christians. Look at how much they carry on here. Look, we don’t believe Jesus appeared in America. We don’t believe God revealed the Book of Mormon to Joseph Smith as holy scripture. You do. Sorry, you have a different belief about God and God’s word. Whynot be honest and admit it. You want all Christians to convert to the Mormon church. We won’t. We believe different. We will never agree that your oft is Christian theology. If Jesus Christ is truly enough, then walk away from the book of Mormon. If you don’t, you made your choice.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:23pmJoe;
‘so why are you posting to me at all then? ”
Cuz you interjected yourself into that thread. That’s how blogging works. And you were the one telling me that speaking to me was like casting pearls before swine and I even invited you at one point to stop talking to me but you still did.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/sherlock-holmes-book-axed-from-6th-grade-reading-lists-after-anti-mormon-claims/comment-page-3/?corder=desc#comments
The fireworks began on page 3. “darren…again you’re calling Jesus a liar…” (just a sample). You also said that I lied about Catholics and their beliefs that works are necessary for salvation,. I’m 100% content for anyone to read and judge those posts for themselves.
So, is it worse to say that one of your links was stupid or to accuse someone in calling Jesus a liar. You have used similar rhetoric against Jehovah witnesses. And here it was you who held up one‘ demeanor as a means to judge another’s Christianity.
“oh yes, here we go again…its NEVER mormon doctrine until YOU say it is…right.’
I answered this above. If you’d like to learn how a declaration becomes official Mormon Doctrine, just ask. I’d be more than happy to explain it to you. Instead of casting blame for your own lack of knowledge, seek the knowledge you lack. Especially if you desire to dialogue on a topic based on that knowledge.
(con’t)
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:37pm“The fireworks began on page 3. “darren…again you’re calling Jesus a liar…” (just a sample). You also said that I lied about Catholics and their beliefs that works are necessary for salvation,. I’m 100% content for anyone to read and judge those posts for themselves. ”
oh I am too . you keep changing your story…and making up excuses for your lies and the lies of the mormon church…and yes you do lie about Jesus…I am so glad our exchange stuck in your craw…truth hurts doesn’t it?
“So, is it worse to say that one of your links was stupid or to accuse someone in calling Jesus a liar. You have used similar rhetoric against Jehovah witnesses. And here it was you who held up one‘ demeanor as a means to judge another’s Christianity.”
yes you do call Jesus a liar…as in the example of the thief on the cross…you say baptism is necessary for salvation..yet Jesus told that thief he would be in paradise….and your lame excuse is ‘its a one time deal’ right.
you also lie about His nature…He clearly says He and the Father are ONE….yet you make them out to be separate beings…
lets go point by point through that thread again….and you will expose yourself for the liar you are.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:42pm(con’t);
“this is just laughable….you can’t use the bible, because you disagree with the bible…..remember mormons only use the bible as its ‘properly translated’ in other words you ignore what you disagree with.”
We embrace all truth which includes all of God’s words revealed to man. God’s word is infallible, man’s translation is not. The bible was used to justify forced baptism of Jews, American Indians and to enslave blacks.
“this is such BS. you twist the word of God for your own purposes…that prophecy was never meant for you…rather the children of Israel..and you are not a jew.”
Arbitrary assignment. If that’s what you think then fine by me, I’ve no quarrel with what you believe.
“as far as Ephesians 3:9 Paul was talking about himself”
So what? What does that have to do with the declaration that “all things were made through Christ”? If Paul was speaking to himself or to anyone else, he still declared “all things were made through Christ”.
“Jesus standing next to God…yes 3 persons ONE GOD..how hard is this?
Where does it say Stephen saw “three in one”? It doesn’t and you avoided my questions. Here we go, once again: 1) Show me biblicly when Jesus got rid of His resurrected body. 2) How is interpreting Ephesians 3:9 and Acts 7:55 literally not being a Christian or how would that be unbiblical?
Since you’re a Christian, I’m sure you can answer.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:43pmlets go through your lies…
““christianity believes Jesus is God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth…mormons do not. ‘
Yes, they do:
”
no they don’t…mormons believe Jesus is a created being…the spirit brother of lucifer….christians believe Jesus created lucifer…so its impossible for the mormon jesus to be the creator of heaven and earth…sorry.
and lets go over your obfuscations and evasions…
“joe;
“10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.”
So how do you reconcile the following: “44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. ” (John 6)
The Father sent Jesus.
”
John 6 has NOTHING to do with Isaiah 43:10…your response is so much BS…
“No, the Nicene Creed **says** the Bible is tinitarian.”
this is another lie of yours…the bible is trinitarian from beginning to end……
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:47pmand this post of mine was and is SO true…
darren…again you’re calling Jesus a liar…mormons says Jesus was a ‘spirit child’ of the Father, so Jesus had to come AFTER the Father…but Jesus says…
Revelation 1
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
the mormon ‘jesus’ isn’t the Jesus of the bible..
you can babble on and on about the nicene creed, your doctrines deny Jesus, and call Him a liar…and who do you think I am going to believe??? hmmmm??
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:49pmand your PATHETIC attempt to justify polygamy and racism in the mormon church…
“Not all the tribes of Israel received the Priesthood, did they? Yet in Christ’s time He gave this authority to His Apostles to spread the gospel throughout the world. The Priesthood, which you don’t even believe in n the first place, is under God’s direction and He will grant it to those whom He pleases in His own due time. Polygamy was once practice in the Bible, correct?”
how can you live with yourself? Murder was practiced in the bible too..doesn’t make it right….
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:55pm“We embrace all truth which includes all of God’s words revealed to man. God’s word is infallible, man’s translation is not. The bible was used to justify forced baptism of Jews, American Indians and to enslave blacks. ”
what BS, you sound like a typical liberal wacko….who was it who freed the slaves?? oh yeah CHRISTIANS…real christians…not mormons…
Alma 3: 6 “And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.”
you justify your racism in the name of God….people had to twist the scripture to support slavery…
here’s what the bible says about slavery…
“He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.” (Exodus 21:16)
so the form of slavery used in the US and other lands, was strictly forbidden by the bible…
9.Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that. For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord’s freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ’s slave. You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. (1 Corinthians 7:21-23)
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:58pmmore mormon racism..
“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.
This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race–that they should be the “servant of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed.”
Brigham Young-President and second ‘Prophet’ of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:03pm““christianity believes Jesus is God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth…mormons do not. ‘”
“5 Yea, I know that ye know that in the body he shall show himself unto those at Jerusalem, from whence we came; for it is expedient that it should be among them; for it behooveth the great Creator that he suffereth himself to become subject unto man in the flesh, and die for all men, that all men might become subject unto him.” (2 nephi 9)”
“so its impossible for the mormon jesus to be the creator of heaven and earth”
And yet it is. Abundantly clear.
He’s also the lod God Almighty: 5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all deternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.” (Mosiah 3)
Nothing ambiguous about that, eh?
“how can you live with yourself? Murder was practiced in the bible too..doesn’t make it right….’
Murder was condemned by death. Giving the Priesthood to those whome the Lord desired was fully practiced and sanctioned. Polygamy was as well.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:04pmWhere does it say Stephen saw “three in one”? It doesn’t and you avoided my questions. Here we go, once again: 1) Show me biblicly when Jesus got rid of His resurrected body. 2) How is interpreting Ephesians 3:9 and Acts 7:55 literally not being a Christian or how would that be unbiblical?
uh Stephen didn’t see the Holy Spirit obviously…He saw the God the Father and God the Son…2 beings of the Trinity…1 God…3 persons…how hard is this? you falsely intepret this as separate beings…where do you get that at? oh yeah the false doctrine of the mormon church…
1) Jesus never got rid of his resurrected body..where do you get such idiocy at?
2) you don’t interpret them literally…you impose your false mormon doctrine upon them.
”
Arbitrary assignment. If that’s what you think then fine by me, I’ve no quarrel with what you believe.
”
more BS…it sure wasn’t written to the mormons…it was written to the jews…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:05pmDarren, I noticed you couldn’t answer my question about how Abraham and Job were saved…so long before Jesus died on the cross….no surprise…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:07pm“so its impossible for the mormon jesus to be the creator of heaven and earth”
And yet it is. Abundantly clear.
”
no its not……since mormons say Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers…created at the same time…then Jesus cannot be the creator…since He Himself IS created…how hard is this???
you should try logic 101….If satan was not created by Jesus…then Jesus is not the creator…get it??
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:09pm“Murder was condemned by death. Giving the Priesthood to those whome the Lord desired was fully practiced and sanctioned. Polygamy was as well.”
the Lord gave the priesthood to ALL BELIEVERS in the New testament…the racist mormon church took it away from black people.
show me the verses where polygamy was sanctioned…you’re a liar.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:12pm“what BS, you sound like a typical liberal wacko….who was it who freed the slaves?? oh yeah CHRISTIANS…real christians…not mormons…”
Who was it that strpped them to poles and whipped them? Oh, yeah, Protestants, real Christians, not Mormons. If you bothered to read the lionks on blacks I provided more than once for you on pa previous thread (I think it was the same one) you’ll see that blacks enjoyed far more rights and liberty in Utah than in the rest of the US (by “real” Christians who also drove the Mormons out of the country).
“John 6 has NOTHING to do with Isaiah 43:10…your response is so much BS…”
They are both about Jesus. God sent Jesus. Do real Christians not believe that?
“you justify your racism in the name of God….people had to twist the scripture to support slavery…”
I agree with twisting scripture. That was actually my point. People twist scripture. Even “real” Christians. But hopefully those who twisted it were predestined to be saved. that would be nice.
Journal of Discourse is not doctrine. The pearl of Great Price makes it clear that Cain’s curse was a protection.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:13pmoh and polygamy was practiced by 15 or so of the people in the OT…thats it…
polygamy is a degredation of women…treating them like sex slaves….they don’t get to become gods…they’re just used for sex…
its a sick and evil practice.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:31pmjoe;
You answered my two questions. Thank you. Two points from that were: a) Interpreting the passage where Stephen saw two beings literally, ergo; there were two distinct divine beings before him before he died is not unChristian, nor unbiblical. b) The fact that there is record of Jesus resurrecting with His body of flesh and bone, ‘ 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.’ 9John 24) and no recorde of Him ever changing after that significantly limits your suposition that teaching God having flesh and bone is not Christian.
“oh and polygamy was practiced by 15 or so of the people in the OT…thats it…”
if you learned the history of Israel you’ll learn that it was much more a common practice than that. And of the Mormon history, the vast majority of Mormons didn’t practice it either. While I agree it is a hardship on women, it’s not inherently degrading and hardly a natural form of sex slavery. Now promescuity, that’s a different story. furthermore, great men of God practiced it. If you’re content to declare them practitioners of sickness and evil, then so be it. Note that Joe 1234 believes that God’s chosen servants practiced sickness and evil before the eyes of God.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:50pmjoe;
“I noticed you couldn’t answer my question about how Abraham and Job were saved…so long before Jesus died on the cross….no surprise…’
You mean the question you posted in another subthread while you and I were engaged on this subthread?
I believe that the atonement yet to come is what saved Abraham and Job (and all others pre-Jesus). Since God is omniscient He can do that. You seem to believe the same thing and it’s no surprise.
So, as per Mark 16:16, do Jews believe in Jesus and are they baptized. That was the original question. There’;s no disagreement that God did His part for them but God also demanded two things in Mark 16: 16. Those things were belief and baptism.
I’m done for this night. I’ll check back tomorrow.
Report Post »HankScram
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 2:40amDarren, why are you so desperate to have joe1234 and other Christians consider Mormons to be a Christian? I dont hear joe1234 pleading with you to consider him a Mormon. Lol
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 10:21am“I believe that the atonement yet to come is what saved Abraham and Job (and all others pre-Jesus). ”
yeah and Abraham and job were never baptized, yet they are in heaven.
“. Those things were belief and baptism.”
uh no, just the belief part….
Romans 4:3
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
“there were two distinct divine beings before him before he died is not unChristian, nor unbiblical”
no not two distinctive beings…
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.
ONE God in 3 persons…not 3 gods…and you will never be a god.
“your suposition that teaching God having flesh and bone is not Christian. ”
never said that.
As far as polygamy, no verses to support it…no surprise….it degrades women…
“Joe 1234 believes that God’s chosen servants practiced sickness and evil before the eyes of God.”
yeah because we’re all fallen…how hard is this? David was an adulterer and murderer…for example
Hank…
yeah the mormons are desperate to be called christian, while at the same time telling us that we‘re apostate and they’re the only true church…hubris and arrogance…
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 9:42pmJoe;
To say that righteous men of the Old Testament are in heaven but yet were not baptized has validity to it though for another topic perhaps on another day the LDS do believe baptism is essential and the God has revealed the manner which all His children will receive the opportunity to be baptized. But do recall the origin of this dialogue. That Jews who died in the concentration camp will go to Hell just like Hitler as Mark Tripp phrased it. No doubt the ancient Jews believed in the Messiah, a child to be born “unto us” as Isaiah scripted. That Messiah was Jesus Christ. Do modern-day Jews believe this? What of Hindu, Bhuddists, Atheists, Muslims, Shintaoists, etc? What’s the predestination of these?
Whaen The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day saints teaches that all must come unto Christ it means it in the strictest sense. The LDS Church is emphatically Christ-centered. in fact, you cannot get more Christ-centered than that of LDS doctrine. I’m not saying at all that other den,oinations and faiths are not Christ-centered but the true makr of a Christian is that all beliefs revolve around Jesus the Christ. The LDS Church teaches this and embraces this. It teaches not only repentence through Christ but to live as Christ would have one to live. There is no more pure a Christian teaching.
Now for some final remarks to you…
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 9:52pm(con’t);
“7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.”
Who gave King David “wives”? It was the Lord. What is given of the Lord is not “sick” or “evil” in any way, shape, or form. Is there any reason to conclude that such was not done with Moses and Abraham and many other of the Lord’s servants? The only conclusion we can make is that the scriptures available to man today does not speak about it one way or the other. We also know that great men of God had plural wives and were not condemned for it by any other servant or prophet of God. But as we shall see, the Prophet Nathan did reprimand king David for adultery…
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 10:06pm…
” 10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
11 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.”
(2 Samuel 12)
Now I do need a qualifier before continuing. When I said previously that what is given by the Lord is not “sick” or “evil” it was in the context of being blessed by the Lord. King David, who was a great and righteous man before God, was blessed, in part, with many wives. these wives were given to him by the Lord. But after sinning, these same wvies by which he was blessed with will be taken and “given to his neighbor.” this is clearly in the context of being cursed. to strengthen the fact that this was a curse it is written that these wives will lie with David’s neighbor “in the light of this sun.” Here you do have an example of sex slaves. Previously when with David in his righteousness these wives were a blessing to him by the Lord for his righteousness.
So, in thew verses above, how did David despise the Lord? By taking Bethsheba? Why would this despise the Lord? Because it was adultery. What was the difference between Bethsheba and David’s previous multiple wives…
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 10:16pm…
That answer was adultery. David had many wives because the lord blessed him with them. David, however, despised the Lord by taking Bethsheba. I’m not at all forlorning the sin of murder. Clearily the curse placed upon David by Nathan was in part for killing Uziah. But for the sake of the posts here, I want to focus on the nature of plural marriage and the nature of it before the Lord in the Old Testament times. There was a distinction between polygamy, which was provided by the Lord, and there was adultery, never provided by the Lord.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 10, 2011 at 1:17amJoe;
One last note which didn’t get published. Although there‘s more to say about the contradiction of some of your previous statements I’d like to close with this. In the thread I link which you begin to call me aliar, I told you to never do that to me again. Besides the fact that you are violating the terms of use on this website by doing so, it’s simply void of intelligence, edification, anything profound, and simply infatile. Besides, to be consistant, you’d have to call everyone wh oprays to Holy Mary a liar, believes in baptism a liar, and who do not worship on the Sabbath (Saturday) a liar worships and all therefore are servants of Satan.
So, while I told you thee first time I’ll ask this second time to cease doing this. I will not tell or ask you to do this again.
God bless.
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on October 10, 2011 at 2:01am@ Darren
Report Post »You present vital matters in a logical and informed way. Nevertheless, I have the image of crushed pearls in my mind’s eye.
joe1234
Posted on October 10, 2011 at 9:55am‘”That Jews who died in the concentration camp will go to Hell just like Hitler as Mark Tripp phrased it. No doubt the ancient Jews believed in the Messiah, a child to be born “unto us” as Isaiah scripted. That Messiah was Jesus Christ. Do modern-day Jews believe this? What of Hindu, Bhuddists, Atheists, Muslims, Shintaoists, etc? What’s the predestination of these?”
this is such an arrogant statement…you and I don‘t know the state of another’s soul….when Jesus said don’t judge…He meant exactly what you are doing. amazing. The Lord knows who are His, and He will save them…He doesn’t need us. but the hubris and arrogance of judging the eternal fate of another person…wow.
“The LDS Church is emphatically Christ-centered. in fact, you cannot get more Christ-centered than that of LDS doctrine”
this is delusional….you add WORKS to the FINISHED work of Christ…you denigrate what He did by requiring your own works for salvation…this is blasphemy of the highest order…the sin or pride…the original sin of satan.
you also denigrate Him by making Him a created being…He is the CREATOR…not a created being…the Eternal God, no beginnning no end.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 10, 2011 at 10:02am“Who gave King David “wives”? It was the Lord. What is given of the Lord is not “sick” or “evil” in any way, shape, or form”
who killed Job’s children? who gave Job sickness and disease…yes it was Satan..but the Lord allowed it…isn‘t what happened to Job ’given of the Lord’ hmmmmm?
I find it more than amusing that supposedly your church has abandoned polygamy, yet you defend it SO vociferously…and the mental gymnastics you use to justify polygamy, with this verse to David…The Lord gave those things to David…not to you, or to me, or anyone else.
Polygamy has always been a disaster….you say Abraham was a polygamist, which I dispute, but nevertheless…it has led to 4,000 years of hatred and war between the sons of Ishamel and Isaac….
Polygamy led Solomon into sin…same for David…and you are telling me its from the Lord??? you are DELUSIONAL.
Polygamy was NEVER provided by the Lord…it was always a sin…from the beginning HE made adam and EVE…not adam, and eve, and cheri, and joan, and jeanne…get a clue.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 10, 2011 at 10:11am“So, while I told you thee first time I’ll ask this second time to cease doing this. I will not tell or ask you to do this again.”
is this a threat? and yes I’ve been threatened on this web site before…and nothing was done about it.
if you don’t like the way I type to you, then don’t respond to my posts. I don’t see any contradictions in what I posted or any falsehoods….I call it like I see it, and if that upsets you oh well.
Report Post »NukeHaze
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:52amThat is what SOME Catholics say. The leadership of the Church itself does not speak ill of other Churches that I have ever seen or heard. Some of their lower level congregational leaders have often said or done things that the Vatican has had to rebuke and redress because it was not Catholic policy. Joe of all people should know this. He knows more than us all about these things. Others here seem to go to his school as well unfortunately.
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