Blaze Exclusive: Pro-Life Director Discusses ‘October Baby’ — A Feature Film About Abortion Survival
- Posted on December 4, 2011 at 5:05pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Abortion continues to be one of the most politically-flammable issues in American politics. While it has maintained its position for decades as one of the most talked about and debated issues in society, it rarely gains the in-depth exposure it deserves on television and in movies. Perhaps because it is so controversial, many shy away from exploring its implications in these forums. But “October Baby,” a new film by brothers Andrew (co-director) and Jon Erwin (writer and co-director), takes the issue on without restriction.
While new to feature films, Andrew Erwin, 33, and Jon Erwin, 29, based out of Birmingham, Alabama, have an extensive history working in the music industry. They’ve directed videos and worked with well-known acts in both the Christian and mainstream world — Michael W. Smith, Amy Grant, and Switchfoot to name a few. They’ve even won Dove Awards (the Christian equivalent to the Grammys).
The Blaze caught up with Andrew recently to discuss the impact he hopes the movie, which has so far come out in a limited capacity, will have on the abortion dialogue and on Americans’ views on life. Considering its less-than-conventional nature, “October Baby” is sure to be a discussion starter.
A description of the film on IMDB reads, “October Baby is the coming of age story of a beautiful and naive college freshman who discovers that her entire life is a lie and sets out on a road trip with a host of misfits to discover herself and the answers she craves.”
Hannah (played by Rachel Hendrix), the central character, is a beautiful 19-year-old college freshman. Despite her youth and her good looks, she has always had a sense that something was missing — a sense that she doesn’t really have a right to exist.
Her world is turned upside down when she finds out that she was adopted. While shocking enough on its own, this is the only beginning of her personal tale. In addition to grappling with this new-found knowledge, she also learns that she was the survivor of a failed abortion — a startling fact for the young girl to process. So, she decides to embark on a road trip with her friends in an epic journey to find her birth mother. This, of course, is the premise of “October Baby.”
Below, watch the trailer:
In creating the film, the Erwin brothers weren’t looking to be combative regarding their take on abortion. Instead, they sought to tell a story about forgiveness, redemption and the value of life. In our discussion about the movie, Andrew boiled its main premise down to three words: ”It’s about forgiveness.”
While many women have abortions for a multitude of reasons, Andrew says he believes in “forgiveness and healing” and that he and his brother wanted to pass this sentiment onto their audience. “Its not about throwing stones. [Women who have had abortions] don’t have to live in shame,” he says. The brothers were intent on telling the story through “positivity and love, not hate.”
“My generation is more pro-life than the generation before it. My generation is looking for a positive message to come on board with,” he explains. “Instead of sitting around and throwing stones, we want to lift up the value of life — to lift up the value that every life deserves a chance. And to bring awareness that there are abortion survivors.”
Believe it or not, they initially never set out with an agenda. In fact, Andrew explains that they would have rather tackled other subjects for their first feature film. “If you had originally asked us what we wanted to make a film about, we would have said anything but the subject we chose,” he explained.
Their path toward the completed product was an intriguing one. While watching YouTube clips, Andrew explains that he and Jon encountered Gianna Jessen’s story. Jessen, a survivor of an attempted abortion, has gained notoriety by sharing her story across the nation. The brothers were so moved by her story that they had to take action.
“Gianna is an amazing person with such a lively personality,” Andrew explains. “She survived a saline abortion and after hearing her story we became challenged and motivated.”
To many, abortion survival may seem like a bizarre or improbable notion, however it’s a reality for people like Gianna. Below, watch her story, as told during a 2008 anti-abortion address:
As the brothers began to discuss their plans, they realized Gianna’s story would be much more impactful as told through fiction. “As a documentary, this wouldn’t be palatable,” Andrew explained. “So, we decided to put the story in an entertaining, coming-of-age love film that allowed us to bring awareness.” Thus, they decided to loosely base Hannah‘s journey on Gianna’s personal story.
Andrew explained that he and his brother wanted to get people talking. “Abortion is a complicated issue. We we figured that the best way to look at it was through the eyes of complicated people,” he said. ”I cant really change anyone’s mind until I engage their heart. If I can take you on a journey with a character you care about, it may challenge you to think about the issue another way.”
While documentaries often educate (and/or indoctrinate), the Erwin brothers wanted to tell this story through a softer, gentler and more flexible lens. Andrew hopes that viewers will begin to ask questions about the complicated matters of abortion and abortion survival. Being offensive of brazen wasn’t ever part of the plan in composing “October Baby.”
“From all angles it’s handled with sensitivity, tact and accuracy. We’ve want to capture peoples’ emotions,” Andrew explained. “You fall in love with this girl Hannah and you want to go on this journey with her.”
Making the film wasn’t an easy task, as the brothers did extensive research and engaged with people on all sides of the debate. Interestingly, Andrew says that they encountered a lot of abortion survivors along the way. Gianna, of course, has become a huge fan of the film and was consulted during the production process.
But considering the more leftist nature of Hollywood (teamed with the complicated nature of the movie’s content), one wonders what the industry had to say about the Erwins’ film endeavor.
“We talked to a lot of people who gave us advice on how to approach the subject,” Andrew says. Jon and I have a very unique brand. Our version of faith films is something that’s fresh and hasn’t been seen before. It’s a new style that could add some variety.”
While this may be true, the brothers still faced an uphill battle. Secular experts advised them that “October Baby” wasn’t necessarily a good career move. “We were told to scrap it and break even,” he explains.
The young brothers weren’t sure what to do, but feeling called and compelled to tell the story, they decided to forge on and see it through. In the end, Provident films and American Family Studios got behind the project and it gained the support needed to launch it off the ground.
So far, the audiences who have had the chance to see the film have truly enjoyed it (“October Baby” has an average seven out of 10 rating on IMDB). Andrew says the biggest criticism has been that the movie isn’t in theaters nationwide yet — something that will be rectified in March 2012 when it does, indeed, hit the big screen.
Find out more about “October Baby” here.
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Comments (81)
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Posted on December 5, 2011 at 6:43amMIL MOM
I have adopted 2 girls from China. I tell them what I do know – that their parents could not raise them, so they were abandoned where they would be found. I let them know I don’t know the reason why they were abandoned or who their birth parents are, but I always speak with respect about the when they are discussed. I always tell them that there is no such thing as a perfect parent, so hopefully their expectations of me (and their birth parents) will be more realistic. Kids can deal with the truth at very young ages. Lying to a child only sets up the adoptive parents for failure. I am trying to prepare myself for the future when they might have a stronger interest in who their birth parents are – I can fully understand wanting to know who one is by knowing where one came from – that would be (IMO) a natural inclination. I also expect to hear “You’re not my real mom – you can’t tell me what to do!” – Teens can be quite mean, but I also expect that is part of the growing up process… if it weren‘t for their adoption they’d be saying somethng else just as mean to make their point. I’ve done a lot of reading on this subject, and I know no matter what I read, it won’t truly prepare me for what is to come – but at least I know it’s coming… at least with one of them.
Report Post »conservativewoman
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 1:28amPlease don’t condemn all women who have abortions. So many of them condemn themselves for the rest of their lives. If God forgives, we can forgive. We just need to let them know that.
Remember, pro-abortionists having been conducting a several decades long propaganda convincing women that it is their right and that it is just “tissue” they are removing. The majority of abortions are caused by someone (a boyfriend, spouse, parent) pressuring a young woman into it.
A person can many times justify any of their conduct if they are frightened enough. Especially if they lack a support system. We should be praying for more truth about abortion to be revealed, and a healing for those who have had abortions. God does forgive if you ask. We are all sinners.
Report Post »IslandMama
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 8:17amYou are so right. I will never, ever forgive myself even though I know that Jesus has already paid the price for my sin. I did not realize then what I know now and would encourage any young woman facing this decision to reconsider. I think about it every day and wish I had taken a different path.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 10:04amMay God Bless you both! You are so correct that a frightened young woman/teenage girl is put in a very difficult, frightening position and receives advice based on what our society has become.
My heart breaks for both of you. But you are not condemned! Find comfort, peace and forgiveness in Him. I recommend Beth Moore’s “Breaking Free” and “Get Out of That Pit” as two wonderful books to true forgiveness in Him.
Please work to change our culture so that other young women do not experience what you went and continue to go through! Abstinence and birth prevention are the true answers! Again, God Bless You!
Report Post »riaf-decnalab
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 3:19pmISLANDMAMA
God bless you and the Erwin brothers for the faith witness. This film is long overdue.
Report Post »HappyGirl537
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 8:57pmIslandmama, I felt like you do. for a very long time. I knew Jesus forgave me. But…..I couldn’t forgive myself. You do not need to carry this burden alone. http://www.silentnomore.org. I regret my two abortions. My oldest children would be 24 & 22 year olds, if they had survived my selfishness.
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:57pmOh, my dear hearts, you are not condemned. Do not worry about the judgement of others. Jesus loves you & you are forgiven. Accept His grace & His gift of freedom. I cannot imagine what you are going through, but I love you & will keep you in my prayers. God bless you both.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on December 8, 2011 at 9:22pmGod truly forgives our sins if we are sorry. God bless those who have repented of their past sins. May God give them the graces to believe in His forgiveness.
In the “Diary of Saint Faustina” her spiritual confessor, Father Sopocko, in an attempt to discern whether or not her inspirations were actually coming from Jesus, asked St. Faustina to question Jesus about Father’s last mortal sin. Faustina, under Holy Obedience, proposed this question to Our Lord to which He responded, “tell Him, I don’t remember”.
Jesus, I Trust In You
Report Post »STANDINTHEFIRE
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 12:25am@ Desert Rose
You said, “I don’t think a fetus is entitled to human rights until it can survive without the mother.” In other words a mom could decide to kill her baby anytime before they are somewhere between 2-4years old, right. I don’t know, maybe you had extremely bright kids, but mine couldn’t have survived without their parents until being at least a couple of years old. Even then, surviving is about all it could be called.
And what do you mean you have no right to tell other people how they should behave, we do it all the time, they are called laws. If something is immoral or endagers others then we create laws against it. Murder, rape, incest, stealing, even speeding just to name a few examples. Are you telling me we shouldn’t be punishing those who do these things just because we are legislating morality and telling people how they should act. There is no reason that abortion should be treated any differently than any other crime against another human being. Aside from being wrong, it simply isn’t necessary.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 11:24pmSorry…..must go for tonight. More to say tomorrow. I’ll leave you with this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKyljukBE70
Report Post »BryanLongworth
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 10:34pmI watched a viewing of October Baby in Orlando. It is powerful! Everyone wept! http://bryanlongworth.com/2011/11/08/will-you-help-personhood-florida-reach-every-pastor-every-church-in-your-county-for-life/
Report Post »mr.goodvibe
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 9:26pmWell if you are too lazy or ignorant to use a condom or birth control or maybe pull it out or hell even do the unthinkable and be abstinate there is always the murder option. With todays preventative measures there is no excuse except rape or incest to hbe pregnant with an unwanted child.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 9:34pmExactly!
Report Post »valencyspeaks
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 10:00pmI used to feel the same way: Abortion is wrong except in cases of incest, rape, or if the mother’s life is in danger. However, I have become close friends with a woman who is the product of a rape committed by her mother’s step-father. Why does the pro-life community deem her life any less valuable simply because of the way she was conceived? Coming to know and love her and to appreciate her countless acts of charity provided to those in her community have made me *completely* rethink this particular aspect of the pro-life agenda.
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 12:02amValency.. I’m not sure about the “Pro-Life” community deeming those as less important as much as it is individuals thatmay be conceding a little for the greater whole??
Report Post »I personally disagree with that. I am 100% prolife.
copatriots
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 10:22am@ VALENCY,
I took Mr. GOODVIBE’s comment different than you did. I didn’t get the impression that he agreed with abortion in the cases of rape or incest. I took him to mean……..other than cases of rape or incest, there are really no reasons a pregnancy can’t be prevented.
Report Post »thedarkknightreturns
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 9:20pmI was adopted, my biological mother was 17 in high school at the time, and at the time in the 80′s it would have been easy for her to get an abortion. She did not, she insisted she would have me put up for adoption, and her only wish was for me to be brought up in a good christian home. She must be a pretty decent person. I’ve never met her. I often wonder though. My adoptive parents got me at a few weeks and raised me. I am a very fortunate person to have been raised by good people. The pro-life issue for me is somewhat personal, as I could have been a victim of it, but I believe that my biological mother was a good person, I wish her the best wherever she is, I would like to thank her someday. My life hasn’t been an easy one, but I am grateful, I was diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome as a kid, but no one these days would think of me as anything but a bit eccentric, cognitive behavioral therapy really works for younger kids, if you get into it early the child will be better off, Tony Attwood has some great stuff and resources, and Dr. Temple Grandin is really good. If any of the readers on the Blaze need anything regarding this sort of thing I would love to offer any help I can, if its your kids or you yourself or whatever the case, I always like meeting people and working with others with Asperger’s. Just reply on my post if there are questions etc.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on December 8, 2011 at 9:24pmGod Bless You!
Report Post »schroeder123
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 9:17pmvery cool !
Report Post »Free2speakRN
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 8:45pmPro-abortionists probably won’t watch it, but maybe those with an open mind, walking the fence, will find saving life, ‘enlightening’ .
‘Thanks’, to those brave ones that participated in making the film.
Report Post »pamela kay
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 12:44amFREE2SPEAKRN, I agree. I have often wondered why it is legal to have an abortion yet if someone murders a pregnant women they are charged with two counts of murder. One for the woman and one for the unborn child. So a fetus is considered a life after all. I want to see the film . I admire the young woman who survived. At least someone had the decencey to take her to a hospital that gave her treatment and good care. Unlike the case in Chicago where the baby was taken to the hospital and was refused care because it had been an aborted fetus. It was then put in a closet and left to die. It seems the crying was annoying to the staff.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 8:35pmI‘ve worked with kids in a Children’s club, afterschool program and informal friend/counselor to the teen siblings of my children’s Sunday School Class. As a kid enters puberty, for the most part their thinking twists around and this is a common way to look at it. As they’re trying to stretch their legs and stand on their own 2 feet, in what they consider a grown-up world, they begin to decide that their parents can’t possibly be what they thought they were as kids. For most this levels off, (it is hormone induced thinking, and the hormones level out as most kids grow-up.) and they come to realize that the parents who raised them are WOW! I speak, having only a few of these kids being raised by the parents who actually were their parents at birth, and watching, listening, and praying with them as they come to grips with the fact the real parents are the ones who lovingly care for them daily, even daring to discipline. Though none of these kids were abortion survivors, some survived severe abuse and neglect. All developed some sort of fantasy about the [real] parent, that their VERY REAL parents raising them knew nothing about.
Report Post »MOJOG
Posted on January 28, 2012 at 1:23amThank you for this. I have a seven yr old Chinese adoptee with both attachment disorder and asperger’s. My husband and I have been to hell and back with this girl trying to help her. We’ve literally spent millions of hours and thousands of bucks on therapies and alternative medical treatments trying to get her well and have years ahead. We didn’t plan on this but…we love her and want her to have the best life can give her. When I see ANYthing in the media that calls adoptive parents “not the REAL parent” I am EXTREMELY annoyed. This is no disrespect for birth parents; but…who is taking care of, loving, teaching right and wrong, taking to schools/docs/activities, encouraging, supporting, etc. this kid?! I‘ve seen this over and over like genetics is the most important thing in a child’s life; yet all these “Christians” say they want to be ADOPTED children of God. So…why do the Christian filmmakers still continue this propaganda against adoptive parents as not being the REAL parents – the kid yelling at John Scheider in the trailer really made me sick. Sorry.
Report Post »jungle J
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 8:22pmmurderers are all cut from the same cloth.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 8:19pmI can hardly wait for it to come to video (I don’t do movies unless their on the vcr/dvd but this sounds like one powerful movie. Is it being shown in churches?
Report Post »Secessionista
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 7:55pmWomen who have their babies aborted are murderers. Period.
Report Post »FREEDOM_ISNT_FREE
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 3:46amGod doesn’t “grade” sin on a scale; there are no sins bigger or worse than others. Sin is sin. PERIOD. Do you remember the story about the men who were about to stone the adultress when Jesus stepped forth and asked for whoever was without sin to cast the first stone. One by one, her accusers dropped their stones and turned away. After the last one left and only Jesus was there,He asked her where her accusers were. Being the only sinless person who COULD condemn her, He chose not to, instead telling her to go and turn from her sinful ways. Do you remember King David from the Bible? He broke about 6 of the 10 Commandments in around 24 hours. Yet, God still loved him, forgave him, and still sent Jesus to save those who believe on Him through his lineage. I thank God every day for forgiveness and His love. Yes, there is evil in this world. We are all inherently evil creatures, born with an evil nature, yet God still chooses to love us and offer his forgiveness. We have free will. Yes, God could step in and cure all the evil in this world, but where would that leave free will? Until Jesus returns for those who believe and are saved, this world will only continue to get worse. We can be thankful for the children we raise up today that will be the lights in the world in the coming darkness.
Report Post »FREEDOM_ISNT_FREE
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 3:48amGod doesn’t “grade” sin on a scale; there are no sins bigger or worse than others. Sin is sin. PERIOD. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Do you remember the story about the men who were about to stone the adultress when Jesus stepped forth and asked for whoever was without sin to cast the first stone. One by one, her accusers dropped their stones and turned away. After the last one left and only Jesus was there,He asked her where her accusers were. Being the only sinless person who COULD condemn her, He chose not to, instead telling her to go and turn from her sinful ways. Do you remember King David from the Bible? He broke about 6 of the 10 Commandments in about 24 hours. Yet, God still loved him, forgave him, and still sent Jesus to save those who believe on Him through his lineage. I thank God every day for forgiveness and His love. Yes, there is evil in this world. We are inherently evil creatures, born with an evil nature, yet God still chooses to love us and offer his forgiveness. We have free will. Yes, God could step in and cure all the evil in this world, but where would that leave free will? Until Jesus returns for those who believe and are saved, this world will only continue to get worse. We can be thankful for the children we raise up today that will be the lights in the world in the coming darkness.
Report Post »the68
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 11:52am@freedomisn’tfree; I agree with most of what you said. However, I disagree with the idea that all sins are totally the same to God because they are not. Otherwise, God would not have punished people differently for different sins throughout the entirety of the Bible. Let’s look at the story in context; Mosaic law calls for the stoning of adulterers. However, Roman law did not allow the Jews to freely punish criminals (read about Jesus’ crucifixion for more on this). The Pharisees were trying to trap Jesus between Mosaic and Roman law. If he said to go ahead and stone her, he would violate Roman law. If he said not to stone her, he would appear to violate Mosaic law. Jesus saw through their ploy and responded in such a way that he would violate neither. He said what he did to the woman because he knew that, even though the Pharisees probably had picked her out because she was involved in questionable activities, their story was unlikely because they had failed to bring the man involved in the alleged acts as required by Mosaic law.
Sins are like cuts; all are the same in that they bleed and scar, marking us as equally unholy before God. However, they are all different in their severity and the amount of treatment they require to heal. Many will heal over time. Some require stitches. Some are fatal. But none will separate us from the forgiveness of God unless we allow them to.
Report Post »objectivetruth
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 3:37pmTell that to the women who already has three kids whose birth control method failed.Shes married to an abusive man.He won’t allow her to live long enough to carry it to term.Or the mother of two who after finding out shes pregnant finds out she has cancer.The treatment will save her and kill her unborn.Is she supposed to die and leave her children motherless just so she can not be a murderer in your eyes?Life baby is in shades of grey not black and white.Make your ridiculous statements of adament prolife once you have grown up and have a life of your own.
Report Post »biplaneguy
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 7:17pmStill waiting for proabortion/prodeath person to tell me the scientific item that happens at the moment of birth to make a baby not human life in the womb and seconds later, human life
Report Post »joan k
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 7:03pmI am the parent of an adopted child. She is pro-life. Anyone who is adopted who isn’t pro-life should have their head examined.
Report Post »hamburgerdude
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 6:48pmI met Gianna many years ago, at a youth event we took our youth to, when she was a teenager, and was touched by her story then, and have never forgotten her story. I am glad to see that someone made her message into a movie.
Report Post »DesertRose1960
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 6:39pmGianna is a very compelling speaker, but her story is fairly unique. She states she was 2lbs at her birth, which is a fairly late term abortion. Abortions this late are quite rare. She also states that she was given immediate care when she was born alive. Yes, her Cerebal Palsy is the result of her birth, but other people have had the same complication with births that were intended and desired. One of my daughters was born with a prolapsed cord and both were delivered with forcepts. Luckily, neither shows ill-effects from these conditions. We were lucky.
I would never have an abortion, but I have known a dozen women who have. Most of them had some regrets, but felt it was the best thing to do at the time, all of them went on to have other children. I can’t condemn a woman for making a choice that I could not. I don’t answer for their choices, and they don’t answer for mine. We all go through life with scars based on other people’s decisions and for our own decisions. I would not want to see abortion returned to back alleys. What do you suppose would have happened to Gianna if she had been born in a kitchen or after hours in the back room of a doctor’s office? I celebrate that Gianna is alive and well and I celebrate the system that allowed her to grow up and helped her cope with her adversities.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 6:57pmWow…..I’m glad for your conviction of not personally considering abortion an option but why do you endorse someone else murdering a baby in the womb as their “choice”? At what point would you consider this baby a human who has rights? If we murder babies at late stage pregnancy, why not murder them after they are born? Perhaps you should draw the connection to the mindset in Nazi Germany when their society accepted killing Jews.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y2KsU_dhwI
In this day and age, I would counter condoms are freely available as well as other forms of birth prevention. Perhaps they would be more readily used if abortions weren’t so easily obtained. We don’t even try to make society accountable for their actions anymore. How very sad to view murder babies as acceptable in our society. God will hold us accountable as a country for turning a blind eye to those most innocent we should be protecting. We are more compassionate to death row inmates.
Report Post »Grey Eagle
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 8:24pmBabies might live if the abortion is done in a hospital. They don’t if born Planned Parenthood. I am against abortions. I am in the Medical Profession and saw a baby who survived many years ago. It was transferred to a large University Hospital, and I saw it in the NICU. I have never forgotten.
Report Post »DesertRose1960
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 8:45pm@Copatriots, Reducto Ad Hitlerum, it really isn’t the same thing at all. Pregnancy is a natural condition, every human being here got here through one. It’s a funny thing, there are ancient societies that had laws against abortion, Egypt and Rome, for instance, and archeologists have also found instructions on how to induce abortion in those same civilizations! Imagine, making laws against abortion doesn’t make them go away, it just makes the women and the practioners criminals, and endangers the health of the female and any future pregnancies she might have. I don’t think abortions are that easy to get. I didn’t know where to find an abortion clinic until about three years ago. I found out about the location of one because I saw protestors outside the clinic while on my way to a business luncheon, and the other one was through my Church, they were looking for protestors. Most women have to drive for miles/hours to reach a clinic, and late term abortions are only performed by a tiny handful of doctors in the whole country. As to access to birth control, that can be hard, too. Some insurances don’t cover it, and recently, with the Personhood amendment, Mississippi tried to make many legal forms of chemical birth control illegal. And there has been a decline in teaching secondary students about contraception, at the same time they are being pressured to have sex at a young age. Education is the best answer to the abortion issue, not making women criminals.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 8:48pmre : I would never have an abortion, but I have known a dozen women who have. Most of them had some regrets, but felt it was the best thing to do at the time, all of them went on to have other children. I can’t condemn a woman for making a choice that I could not. I don’t answer for their choices, and they don’t answer for mine. We all go through life with scars based on other people’s decisions and for our own decisions. I would not want to see abortion returned to back alleys. What do you suppose would have happened to Gianna if she had been born in a kitchen or after hours in the back room of a doctor’s office? I celebrate that Gianna is alive and well and I celebrate the system that allowed her to grow up and helped her cope with her adversities.
Report Post »***
A good number of years ago, the sister of someone in our church began attending with her 2 kids. God said we needed each other as best friends, (neither of us were so sure then) and we began meeting for Bible Study and prayer, we found we did need each other, (no details) she confessed she’d had an abortion and was haunted by it. My difficult pregnancy with my youngest son was a fight to keep from miscarrying, our sons became close and she found some healing but says she’ll always feel some guilt for her decision. How many of the women you know haunt themselves with guilt. Legality made abortion easy and more women guilty! May they all know God’s forgiveness as my friend has and is finding!
DesertRose1960
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 9:10pm@GreyEagle, Planned Parenthood is a referal agency. They refer women to doctors and clinics for a large variety of tests and procedures. Abortions constitute only 3% of their services. Most Planned Parenthood offices don’t perform abortions at that facility, they send the woman out, and NO Federal funds may be used for her abortion. Now, if an abortion is legal and performed in a hospital or clinic and a live child is born, the doctor has the legal obligation to get care for the child. If abortions are made illegal, then seeking care for the child born after a failed abortion would result in criminal charges for both the woman and the doctor, how likely are either of them to seek aid for the child?
I don’t think abortion is right, but my opinion hasn’t ever stopped someone from having an abortion, the woman or girl has to make the choice and live with the consequences. There are provisions for the medical profession that protect them from having to participate in legal abortions. Why were you involved in an abortion?
Report Post »DesertRose1960
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 9:20pm@ Mil Mom, One of the women considered it a medical procedure, one that she had performed for animals, as she was a Vet student. One said she always remembered the unborn’s projected birthday and their age. And one said she thought it was a terrible choice, but the best one in a bad situation, she was more haunted by the reaction of someone in our Bible study who chose to slip her anti-abortion tracts, a decade after the fact. That was awful for her, it killed the friendship between the two women. C. Everette Koop wanted, with all his heart to find evidence of post-abortion depression and lingering guilt, but no matter how hard he tried, he could never find enough evidence to claim it was a widespread problem. I haven’t met a single person who was “pro-abortion” no one enjoys such things, everyone I knew considered the abortion the least bad of their choices at the time. All of the women I knew either had children, or went on to have at least one child afterwards.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 9:26pmSorry Desert, you are justifying murder no matter how you try to excuse it. You didn’t answer when that baby becomes a human with rights. Do you feel superior using a Latin saying as you justify murder? Latin doesn‘t excuse sympathizing for a baby’s murder. It is no different than a German looking the other way as Jews were murdered. I’m sure they excused it away also….perhaps using Latin.
Our school system has started teaching children about sex before a girl’s body is even capable of reproducing. 53 million abortions in the U.S since Roe v. Wade. Yeah….education is really the answer. And with 53 million, abortions seem rather easy to get if you are seeking to have one. And give me a break, condoms are available everywhere. You know, they could also practice abstinence. I know…..I’m just talking crazy. How horrible of me to expect people to take responsibility over their decisions and being concerned over murdering an innocent baby. It certainly isn’t the babies fault that his/her parents were irresponsible in having unprotected sex. Yet, you advocate a death sentence on that innocent life. Again, wow.
Report Post »arx
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 10:32pmDesertrose,
From one side of your mouth you say “I would never do it” but from the other you say “I won‘t say someone else can’t”. Why wouldn’t you do it? If you‘re willing to vote for some other woman’s ‘right’ to kill her baby, why wouldn’t you? Grow a spine and get off the fence. You can’t have it both ways. Either abortion is the most heinous crime this world knows as the brutal killing of an innocent baby….or it is…what?
What on earth makes you think it can be just a little bit wrong, or something that should be legal but few, or any of that other happy *********? I would have more respect for your logic (but still very little) if you just said abortion is ok and that’s it. As it is, you are just a coward, and your way of ducking the truth is responsible for the murder of millions of innocents. Choke on that.
I’ll press this point a little further. Say this woman who survived an abortion was to someday meet here biological mother. According to you, should they fall into each other’s arms and give teary eyed smooches? Hardly. It would be few and cold words or silence towards the woman who tried to kill her..or forgiveness if she is capable. But wait…according to you it was justifiable….so nothing to forgive, right?
We as a society have a duty to protect the innocent. And it is some sad commentary that in our society, the only group that doesn’t have a voice is the group who is torn to pieces like so many lambs in the slaughterhouse.
Report Post »DesertRose1960
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 10:40pm@Copatriot, You‘re still raving about something that isn’t your business. What goes on in my body is my business, not yours and not the state’s. How many children have you given birth to? I had my twins at 25, having set the goal at 16, in my Sex Ed class. Why do you and the state get to make choices of such a personal, intimate nature for me?
When do I think a fetus has human rights? At viability, which is about 24 weeks, up until then, I think it is only a potential human life with soul from conception, but I don’t think a fetus is entitled to human rights until it can survive without the mother. I choose not to have an abortion because I view it as taking a life, but I can’t make that choice for other people. The Sixth Commandment, for Protestants, at least, is “Thou shalt not commit murder”, it doesn’t say anything about killing in self-defense or in war. I would not take a life in self-defense, I would not serve on a capital murder case, I would not join the military, I believe suicide is a mortal sin, and I would not commit active euthanasia. I would not take a life even when most would justify it.
I don’t believe in those fake “Chastity Pledges” that a lot of “Good Chrisitans” force on their kids. So far, it’s resulted in a huge number of kids learning about oral and anal sex, because the hymen remains intact. Gross! It doesn’t stop sex at all.
The term is “dog Latin” for a fallacy of irrelevance, “Reductio Ad Absurdum” is another
Report Post »DesertRose1960
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 10:55pm@Arx, Do you think I care if you respect me? I see a great deal of binary thinking, not uncommon with a Marine. You’re taught to follow orders and to not think about things. I‘ve thought about pregnancy and I’ve gone through one. Have you? And no, watching your wife doesn’t count. Have you raised a child to maturity? I have. Mine are 25. As I said before, I don‘t think it’s a baby until its born, up until then, it’s a fetus and a potential human life. I could never be a Marine, I couldn’t kill anyone just because I was ordered to; I couldn’t kill someone else because they would kill me. Gandhi is my hero, “There is much for which I am willing to die, there is nothing for which I am willing to kill.” What other women chose to do with their bodies isn’t my concern. I said I knew a dozen women who had abortions, but I had nothing to do with their choice, in some cases, I hadn’t even met them yet. There are child molesters out there, am I a coward because they exist and commit their crimes without my consent or knowledge? I happen to believe that human life is sacred, and should be protected at all stages. I don’t believe in the death penalty, are you a bad person because you do? I believe in educating people about morals and fetal development and contraception and then allowing them to make their own informed choices. That’s what freedom means. I even support your right to be a Marine and to believe in the death penalty.
Report Post »arx
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 11:05pmDesert Rose says:
“What goes on in my body is my business…” Sure, your body would have to carry another body for 9 months, but it isn’t YOUR body that is torn to shreds while writhing in agony.
“When do I think a fetus has human rights? At viability, which is about 24 weeks…” About? About??? We‘re talking about an innocent baby’s LIFE here..and you say “about”? I wonder if you would have been ok with “about” when you were in your momma’s womb.
“…I don’t think a fetus is entitled to human rights until it can survive without the mother.” So 100 years ago Desertrose was ok with killing a 7 month old fetus (baby). But now DesertRose has to make allowances for those pesky medical advances, and is only ok with killing a 5 month old baby (fetus). There’s hope yet people! In 100 years Desert Rose will be pro-life! Too bad she’ll have faced her Maker before then.
What kind of twisted mentality wouldn’t fire a bullet in defense of itself or friends, wouldn’t vote to execute a murderer who made his choices…but doesn‘t have the moral courage to tell others that they can’t murder innocent babies? A bridge just too far…
And we all wonder why the country is going to hell in a handbasket.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 1:52am@DesertRose1960 That little thing in your womb forming and developing is not your body. That is a separate body. You’re already fully developed and grown. No baby on earth today can survive without its mother. Period. That baby needs nourishment and care from his mother. Not even at 4 years old can a young child live independently, away from any parental guidance and care. To assume that because that thing (maybe it’s broccoli?) cannot speak for itself yet may for that reason be forcefully killed is ridiculous. If anything, because that child in the womb is innocent and defenseless, it should be the more protected. And by far, a baby in the womb is always well protected. I’m sure you agree with that, as you have been a mother. The state does have an interest to protect all human Life, especially that which is innocent and defenseless, even within the womb. Courts can punish a man for killing a baby inside the womb of a mother. Heck, not even Child Services would allow an overly negligent and violently abusive parent to remain with their child. One purpose of Government is to secure the right TO LIFE.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 1:55am@DesertRose1960 And since you mentioned the Bible. Have you considered this:
Life is in the blood. Leviticus 17:11-14; Genesis 9:4, 6-7
Here are some scientific facts to consider also:
“Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child’s own blood, often a different type than the mothers’.”
nrlc.org/abortion/facts/fetaldevelopment.html
“5 weeks: Also the placenta begins functioning, known as the chorionic villi and the umbilical cord, through which the baby will receive nourishment and oxygen.”
baby2see.com/development/first_trimester.html
“The placenta has been described as a pancake-shaped organ that attaches to the inside of the uterus and is connected to the fetus by the umbilical cord…The placenta is responsible for working as a trading post between the mother‘s and the baby’s blood supply. Small blood vessels carrying the fetal blood run through the placenta, which is full of maternal blood. Nutrients and oxygen from the mother’s blood are transferred to the fetal blood, while waste products are transferred from the fetal blood to the maternal blood, without the two blood supplies mixing.”
Report Post »americanpregnancy.org/duringpregnancy/fetallifesupportsystem.html
copatriots
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 9:23amDesert, Sorry I had to leave the conversation last night. I seriously doubt your position will change but I feel compelled to finish this dialog. Um, talk about raving…..I hardly consider my part of the discussion raving but you seem to take this personally and are choosing to attack.
To answer your questions however.
I consider it society’s business (thus, my business) when a woman creates another life which occurs at conception then subsequently chooses to murder that child. The woman made the choice over her own body (in the majority cases as I mentioned in a below post. 99% of the time a woman is impregnated of her own free will.) to have unprotected sex. The moment she created a life, she forfeited her right to murder that child.
You say one “can’t tell you what to do with your own body”. You also say you attend church. I question how you get past the Scriptures that say “your body is not your own” 1Cor 6:19-20. Or the one I already quoted indicating God creates us. Do you not believe that God creates all life?
You also say that a baby has rights at around 24 weeks. Who made you the judge of determining a baby is a human at 24 weeks? Did you see the video I posted above “From Conception to Birth”? And, what if you are wrong? Why should your standard of 24 weeks be the one determined for when God created life? Others argue it’s at first breath. Others argue conception.
cont.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 9:40amWhy would God create a life only to have it ended in the womb?
Interesting you accuse me of presenting an irrelevant argument……which it was not. (I’ll come back to that in a moment.) However, you use the exact same logic in advancing war as an argument in accepting abortion to get around the commandment “Thou Shall Not Murder”. War is Biblical. God commanded war. In the history of our country, our Founders sought God’s will to determine if they should go to war. (Certainly, our leaders no longer seek His will but that is yet another area where we have lost our way in this country.) But to think through your logic using war, in no instance in the Bible does it discuss acceptability or seeking God’s will to kill a baby in the womb. Quite the opposite, pagans were condemned by God for such practices…….they were actually sacrificing their children after they were born.
You say that you view abortion as taking a life but you can’t make that choice for other people. This is where we are truly at disagreement. This is exactly the slippery slope of how we have lost our way in this country. Why do we have any laws? Not everyone agrees that stealing is wrong so let’s get rid of those laws. How about same-sex marriage? Our military just accepted bestiality……should that societally be acceptable? cont
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 9:56am“It’s their body”….you argue they should do what they want with it. At what point, do we stand for what is right and say “our society prohibits this”? Instead of closing our eyes as the Germans did with the Jews, society MUST do a better job protecting the unborn as well as raising young women to understand the REAL consequences of unprotected sex, not the Planned Parenthood version. If women like you brush it off as “it’s their body, their choice” we are truly doomed. You are an intelligent, Christian woman who by your own words believe abortion is “taking a life”. The reason I continued in this dialog was to hopefully have you consider God’s truth that He is the Creator of all things and a woman loses her rights to her body when she chooses to have unprotected sex.
I have incredible compassion & forgiveness for any woman who suffers from an abortion decision she made in her past. You describe women who feel they made the right decision at the time. I would bet when they truly reflect in their quiet moment before God their responses are far more likely like the dear women’s posts above. If we, as a society, continue down the same path we have been on for 40 years, how will we ever change?
I beg forgiveness to those who have had abortions in bluntly calling it murder. I don’t mean to be harsh but the time for sugarcoating it in this country has to end. If a teenage girl really understood what she was doing, I believe many lives would have bee
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 6:09pmThank you, Blaze staff, for bringing such a powerful story of a beautiful, strong, loving woman. Gianna’s sweet soul and forgiving nature is touching beyond reason. I look forward to supporting this movie and buying multiple copies of it when it’s released. This is exactly the positive message that inspires Americans which has been completely lost on Hollywood and their horrific, leftist views.
May God bless you, Gianna! I pray for miraculous, complete healing while knowing you are glorifying Him in your life with your “gift”. Praise Him….just Praise Him.
Report Post »Mrs. Bowers
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 6:02pmI hope it sky rockets to the top! Thanks to those who had the courage to make this movie!
Report Post »sissykatz
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 5:51pmWow this is a powerful message. I hope it is a success for the
Brothers. They are awfully brave to film this. I hope it can save
some lives.
“They’ve directed videos and worked with well-known acts in both the Christian and mainstream world ” don’t you all find it troubling and sad that Our United states
Report Post »of America has to be described by the words above. CHRISTIAN AND
MAINSTREAM……..How very sad that Christian is not the mainstream.
QuantumVerp
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 5:48pmAt the urging of my father, my mother took amphetamines our family doctor prescribed to miscarriage Me. It didn’t work, nice try! Great visuals and a jump on understanding Life!
What’s the big deal? If they had of succeeded I would have only come out of someone else’s uterus. The biggest deal is they still wish to blame much on Me…but having solved all the fundamental problems of their psychology with Transactional Analysis, I can only laugh at their pitiful script which they think has been at my expense. I am blessed by G_d and NOT parents.
Oh, and now they are great followers of one of them middle eastern religions, don’t matter much which one, so pro-life! Onward X-tian Soldiers!
Report Post »CarlyinNJ
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 5:55pmYes, you are certainly BLESSED by God, Quantumverp and your parents were also blessed by your birth even if they don’t totally realize it….:-)
Report Post »hi
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 8:14pmGod bless you quantumverp! I pray the Lord blesses you with your own awesome family full of love.
Report Post »In Christ,
HI
Mil Mom
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 9:15pmWoW! Congratulations for being a lifetime member of the “Overcomers” club. You’re right that if God wanted you to be born it WOULD HAVE HAPPENED NO MATTER WHAT, but I think of His words to the prophet, “BEFORE I FORMED THEE IN THE BELLY, I KNEW THEE AND BEFORE THOU CAMEST FORTH OUT OF THE WOMB I SANCTIFIED THEE…” (Jeremiah 1:5) I believe that every life (even the one who doesn’t make it to birth) is given for some purpose. For some, that purpose is to show what kind of people the parents are, (and hopefully turn them to God) for others, to achieve some great goal on the earth. God alone knows why He put you within the womb He did, but someday those very confused, guilty people will stand before Him, and all they’ve chosen to believe will fall away! Then they’ll realize what a wonderful gift God gave them in you, and how they chose to treat that gift, AND THE GIVER!!!! You’ve made the FAR BETTER CHOICE, May God bless you daily.
Report Post »NOBALONEY
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 5:43pmChoose Life!
Report Post »Jenny Lind
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 5:41pmGod bless every survivor of this terrible “medical” attempted murder. God bless every woman who made that choice, and has to live with that every day of their lives. May they turn to God for forgiveness, and find mercy and peace.
Report Post »korbin
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 5:16pmIt’s really sad people use this as birth control. But your a racists or pro lifer if you disagree. pro l;ifer is supposed to be a disparaging term, I am one. What gets me is how willing people are to accept this murder, as long as they can picture some white blonde woman being raped by a aids infected black man and thus impregnated her somehow thats the scene people want. The ruth is most inner city blacks use this method for birth control, so the majority of abortions are not the blonde rape victim. I say if someone chooses to murder their baby not much I can do but how does anyone justify using my tax dollars for birth control. Man we are a fun med up society these days. Just look at OWS people
Report Post »CarlyinNJ
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 5:47pmKorbin: Too bad yours is the first comment here; because your conclusions about who and why women get abortions is absurd. The majority of women whatever their race or ethnic background, DO NOT use abortion for the purpose of birth control.
Report Post »Regarding this film, “October Baby,” God Bless the Erwin brothers for making the movie and telling this amazing and heart breaking story. Much good will come from their work!!
korbin
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 5:52pmCarly thanks for your input, however I believe in what I said and have seen statistics regarding such. Either way wether its a majority of one race over the other wasn’t the point as much as the fact ABORTIONS are being used as birth control and they are using MY personal taxes to do so. Don’t see a problem with my opinion.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 6:27pmActually, CARLY, women do use abortions as a form of birth control. The more typical scenario, however, is a woman has unprotected sex by her own free will and choice. Shockingly (cynicism), she gets pregnant. In all likelihood, the father is no longer a part of her life by the time she realizes she is pregnant. At this point, she doesn’t like the consequences of the choice she made to have unprotected sex. Thus, continuing in her selfish ways and poor decision-making, she aborts the child. Regardless of your dislike of the term, women do use abortion as a form of birth control. The scenario I described likely accounts for 70% of abortions. Does that make you feel better than Korbin’s scenario?
Report Post »CarlyinNJ
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 7:12pmKorbin and Copatriots:
Report Post »While there might be some women who “use abortion as birthcontrol” I still hold to my statement that most women who get abortions are not doing so lightly and many many women who have had abortions have terrible guilt about having an abortion until the day they die. It seems that it is much easier to point the finger at a woman who has an abortion and/or is considering one then to do what this movie “October Baby” does and not pass judgement.
We can still fight for the unborn and innocent babies whose lives hang in the balance without all the accusations.
Again, most women are NOT using abortion as birth control; most women who have had to face this terrible choice are conflicted and guilt stricken!
Sadly, many women who go to a “womans clinic” for counseling concerning “an unwanted pregnancy” are told that abortion is a simple procedure and that the fetus (baby) is just a blob of unfeeling cells that is not even human. These woman are told that the abortion procedures are safe and simple and there is no pain for the fetus (baby).
Many of the women who are lied to at these facilities would not have an abortion if they knew the TRUTH and that is the blessing of this movie. The story of “October Baby” will save many lives
thekuligs
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 7:20pmYou should google race statistics in abortion. I believe something like half of all black babies are aborted. It is very sad, and very telling of what is wrong in our country.
A majority of the abortions are done just because a woman does not wish to be pregnant–very few are done for medical reasons (despite what Princess Pelosi would lead us to believe) So that suggests they are, in fact, using it for birth control. Most later term abortions are done because tests have shown their is something wrong with the baby in utero. Just a note on that I have had a false postive every single time I consented to one of those tests, and all my kids are perfectly healthy.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 7:29pmI hope and pray the movie does save many lives. I have great compassion for the plight of women who have made this terrible choice…..especially those who were wrongly counseled at abortion clinics. As you describe, these women suffer for years, some the rest of their lives. They can come to forgiveness and find peace in Our Redeemer. I never once said they make the decision lightly……but however they come to the decision they do, in fact, to terminate the birth of an innocent child…..a form of birth control.
However, my heart is greater burdened for the innocent lives He created who are carelessly, horrifically murdered. I truly understand your love for the mothers who have made that decision and I do not sit in judgment of them. I would prefer we change as a society to stop permitting abortions and making people accountable for birth PREVENTION if they don’t want to get pregnant. So long as we make abortions easy, the murders of innocent lives will continue. If women made better decisions about how not to get pregnant in the first place, they wouldn’t have to deal with choosing to murder the innocent child and living with that decision for the rest of their life. A far better alternative!
Report Post »objectivetruth
Posted on December 5, 2011 at 3:50pm@corbin
Report Post »Don’t know where you live.Maybe your state sponsors abortions not all states do.Most abortions aren’t performed as birth control.They are performed due to birth control failing.If a women is using abortion as birth control she needs her head examined.
lukerw
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 5:16pmGet… a REAL Life!
Report Post »biplaneguy
Posted on December 4, 2011 at 7:22pmThe same type people who could burn/gas/shoot/hang/beat/starve millions of jews to their deaths just 70 years ago, still walk among us.
Report Post »