US

BYU Student Called in for ‘Counseling’ After He Appears Nearly Naked on Fox Dance Show

On Wednesday, Chase Thomas appeared on one the nation’s top dance shows, “So You Think You Can Dance.” And the world got to see a lot of him:

BYU Student Called in for Counseling After He Appears Nearly Naked on Fox Dance Show

As you can see, Thomas left little to the imagination during his dance on national TV. And during the show, the host made sure to note Thomas’s clothing, or lack thereof, even soliciting cheers from the audience. And while many of the girls were screaming and ogling, administrators at Thomas’s university, BYU, were watching in horror.

After the show aired, Thomas — who is married — was called into the school office by those responsible for enforcing the school’s honor code (which the school takes very seriously) for “counseling” regarding his choice of clothing:

From KSTU-TV:

Thomas says his costume almost cost him his status as a student at BYU because he was told it broke the schools modesty policy. But Thomas says covering more of his body would compromise his art form and take away from his dance.

“It was an amazing experience for sure, the judges absolutely loved it,” Thomas tells FOX 13. “In no way was my solo supposed to be sexual or lewd or anything like that.”

When school officials learned Thomas wore nothing more than a pair of “short” dance shorts during the episode that aired before a national audience he says school officials were not too happy.

Thomas contends that the BYU swim team poses and wears nothing more than swimmer’s briefs for their sport and doesn’t understand why his dance costume is any different.

BYU spokesperson Carrie Jenkins says Thomas was never asked to leave the university. She says his student status is not currently under review, but she says he was called in for counseling.

What do you think?


Comments (214)

1 2 3
  • Dockta
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:13am

    Where are his Jesus jammies?!! Joseph Smith must be PO’d about this.

    Report Post »  
    • flagkeeper
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:41pm

      What could you possibly hope to accomplish? You know not of what you speak. Such comments do you no favors in the arena of credibility, whatever your cause. The lack of restraint on a foolish mouth, among other things, only proves to reassure some that man must be governed. If you have any claim to a good cause, then be an example of it. If mocking bigotry is all your mind can muster, then your cause is all it appears to be- unamerican, unchristian, uncivilized, and unintelligent.

      Report Post » flagkeeper  
  • Jennine
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:10am

    It’s a SCHOOL, one school, and he can go to any school he wants to. He chose to go to BYU and he signed the honor code. He can always switch schools and no Mormon will think less of him for it. I don’t know if you folks realize this, but there are lots of Mormons in lots of colleges. BYU is not the ‘mandatory Mormon school.’ Secondly, this isn’t the LDS Church reviewing the religious status of one of its members, it’s a SCHOOL talking to a STUDENT about whether his dress met the standards of the honor code. He wasn’t removed from the school or punished, and it meant nothing as to his status in the Church. It just happens that this guy ended up on national television, a BYU student wearing little clothing, and that’s not the impression the school wants to give. He’s perfectly welcome to say “Yeah… I’d rather dance on TV in little shorts. I’m transferring to U of U.” No. Big. Deal.

    Report Post »  
    • Lonescrapper
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:24am

      He’s an idiot. Justifying breaking standards in the name of art makes him as impressive as the artist who puts a crucifix in urine (which I bet you he derides as ‘not really art’)

      Report Post » Lonescrapper  
  • king1
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:07am

    Its withing BYU’s right no one is forcing him to attend BYU follow by there rules or go some where else
    freedom of choice isn’t beautiful

    Report Post »  
  • davidwjohnson
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:06am

    What he does off campus is none of the school’s business.

    Before we know it, your barber, your bowling league, and your favorite restaurant will dictate your behavior so as not to defame their good character.

    Report Post »  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:35am

      Yes, it is their business. The guy signed an honor code. The school has standards. I love BYU

      Report Post » riseandshine  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:54am

      BYU has standards, but the standards are so low. In fact, the mormon church’s standards are low, to me. Introspection – zero. Challenging core beliefs – zero. Questioning authority – zero.

      One of the Mormon prophets said not long ago: “when the Prophet speaks, the thinking has been done.”

      Sorry, but if you stop thinking when your church’s prophet speaks, you are not on a spiritual journey. You are just following orders from another guy.

      To me, living like that is following a very low standard.

      Report Post »  
    • Agentuntomyself
      Posted on June 4, 2011 at 10:59pm

      Wow, can we please stop the nonsense? Would you people criticizing BYU please pay attention? When you enroll at BYU, you have to sign an honor code. You agree to dress modestly THE WHOLE TIME you are a BYU student, on or off campus. It is a contract, pure and simple. It has nothing to do with whether or not anyone agrees with the policy: if you sign the honor code, you agree to it. No one is forcing these students to do so. In fact, there is a long line of kids who want to go to BYU but can’t get in who would gladly live by the BYU standards. If you don’t want to live those standards, fine. Go to another school. There are lots of good universities out there who won’t make you dress modestly or abstain from alcohol, drugs or pre-marital sex. Try one of those.

      Report Post »  
  • kyuss80
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:05am

    I did a little YouTube search and found the audition:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjHFh6gdH4M

    I don’t see what the big deal is, the guy seemed very professional.

    Report Post » kyuss80  
    • Ronda
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 4:24pm

      Thanks for the link. I watched it and having sons who are ‘sort of’ body builders, I think he wanted to show off his cut.

      Report Post » Ronda  
  • caprica
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:01am

    this is ia big news
    ‘Birth certificate’ prompts departure of White House counsel News – June 2, 2011 – this is bigger than Watergate
    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=306425

    Report Post »  
  • Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:54am

    Guess he’ll be forced to review the Golden Plates again.

    Where were those things again?

    Report Post » Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker  
  • DREDGE
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:51am

    B-f-d!!!!

    Report Post »  
  • Ricky A. Patriotson
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:49am

    He needs a hair cut.

    Report Post » Ricky A. Patriotson  
  • evilhatemonger
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:45am

    Seriously? BYU confuses me sometimes. Perhaps the “Modesty Police” need to check into the women’s Swim team. They aren’t exactly wearing burkas.

    Report Post » evilhatemonger  
    • Tipdog
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:08am

      Have you ever tried swimming in a Burqa?

      Report Post » Tipdog  
    • consider_this
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:13pm

      I think that is a good point. They have a modesty code but have their swim team in similar outfits (may I remind you) representing them! This guy went for his dream and pretty much accomplished it in my mind. He was a beautiful dancer. He was not their representing the college.
      That is like saying someone can’t go out to a restuarant and drink at the bar b/c they are representing their company. No.
      Religion/ Belief is a personal conviction. If he feels he was right in wearing what he did to dance, there is nothing wrong with it.
      I was a pentecostal once, and went my own way b/c I believed in something different. I completely respect the religion and those who stay in it. Its a personal conviction that puts you in what you believe.
      This guy was not wrong in what he did.
      Another example: going to the Southeastern University but always enjoy going to LSU games. Your saying since I go to that school I should strictly stay committed to only supporting them. No.
      I believe he probably didn’t even think of it that way, b/c he was preforming a sport (a beautiful sport) just as the swimming team. *even though he was not respresenting the school. he was representing himself in the dance.

      Report Post » consider_this  
  • BiteMePETA
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:35am

    It’s their rules and their code of ethics you bunch of WEE-nurs….

    Just because you see it everywhere doesn‘t mean that others don’t have higher standards…

    He’s grown man. If he doesn’t like their ethics standards, he is free to move on to somewhere else.

    Why do i always feel alone in my world of common sense?

    Report Post »  
  • heavyduty
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:26am

    Most so called entertainers today think they have to perform naked to make it in show business. When actually it is because they can’t sing or dance. When you can get up in front of an audience and perform fully clothed, and be judged on your talent instead of your looks. That is what makes a performer. But then again this is my opinion. Which we all know about opinions.

    Report Post »  
    • jcannon98188
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 5:35pm

      Yeah but this guy CAN dance. He was absolutely amazing. It was by far one of the most beautiful dances done in that episode. The outfit he wore he did in good taste, it was in no way sexual. The beauty of the human body is outstanding, and he show cased it in a nonsexual way that added to the power of his dance.

      Report Post »  
  • heavyduty
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:22am

    Then I guess that everyone that wears bathing suits should get counseling also. Sometimes I have to wonder how we have made it this far in life. Only by the grace of God.

    Report Post »  
  • Wolf
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:19am

    So he has to dress himself ‘modestly and in good taste’ while attending class. Big deal- do any mormons ever go to a beach on a hot summer day? Obviously not- unless they’re wearing burkhas and gowns so as to not offend the dress code.
    Will there never be an end to stupid people?

    Report Post »  
  • mikester8888
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:14am

    Just another northern psychopath. Here in the south we would tar and feather that fellow.

    Report Post »  
  • 1989kwg
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:08am

    He sounds like a jerk. He calls out his first girl friend, he calls out BYU. He probably does need counseling.

    Report Post »  
    • kralspaces
      Posted on June 4, 2011 at 7:24pm

      Good point… I didn’t get the relevance of the story about the fiancée. But, I did like his dance routine.

      Report Post » kralspaces  
    • Irish_April
      Posted on June 5, 2011 at 1:44am

      I think someone finally hit the nail on the head. I think it had more to do with the attitude behind his choice of costume than it was the costume or lack thereof. He was interviewed on the local news and his attitude left something to be desired.

      Report Post » Irish_April  
  • Fight for America
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:07am

    There are billions more people on the earth with ?????? penises. Is his really so special that it needs to be on TV other than on a porn channel? I don’t think so.

    Report Post »  
  • eat-more-bacon-USA
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:07am

    The BYU Honor Code requires that students dress modestly – students must agree to abide by the code upon enrollment. Although his attire might have been appropriate at the swimming pool, these athletic shorts are far from modest and dignified for the setting. He was counseled – it is not a big deal.

    “The dress and grooming of both men and women should always be modest, neat, and clean, consistent with the dignity adherent to representing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and any of its institutions of higher education.”

    http://saas.byu.edu/catalog/2010-2011ucat/GeneralInfo/HonorCode.php

    Report Post » eat-more-bacon-USA  
    • encinom
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:12am

      It is a big deal, it is the reach of a zealot cult run univesity into a man’s private life. This was not a BYU sponsored event nor did he represent BYU, if response to the counselors should have been FU BYU.

      Report Post »  
    • eat-more-bacon-USA
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:28am

      @ENCINOM – He chose to attend BYU and he agreed to the Honor Code. As a student of BYU, he is considered a representative of the school (and the Mormon Church) – he knows this. Like it or not, BYU is a Mormon university – they have a strictly enforced code of behavior which applies to students on and off of campus – if he does not want to abide by the rules that he agreed to, he should find another school.

      Report Post » eat-more-bacon-USA  
    • dallas20001
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:28am

      Yeah let’s become religious bigots encinom. I‘m sure you know all about the LDS church it’s standards and the teachings. Can we for once stop the bigotry please? Just because some schools aren’t caving to main stream values( or lack thereof) doesn’t mean they are a cult or weird. There were people who didn’t like Jesus and his teaching maybe you should think about that before you cast stones.

      Report Post »  
    • Lux
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:41am

      well put dallas20001

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Grey Matter
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:42am

      @ Encinom

      Your comment shows your complete ignorance. No one’s actions are ever truly their own. Everything one does is a reflection of their family, school, etc. Whether or not you deem it to be fair does not change the fact that it is. This is true all the way from scholars to athletes. Like Reggie Bush of USC or Ben Shapiro of Harvard. A person (and their actions) is always linked to the University they attended.

      Admission at BYU is not required, is not guaranteed, and is not for everyone. If you don’t like the rules then don’t go. But this student swore to uphold the honor code when he was admitted. If he didn’t like it then he could have chosen to go elsewhere. Violations of the honor code can and have resulted in expulsion from the University. If he had chosen as base a response as you suggested, I guarantee you that the University could and should have expelled him. You fail to understand one of the basic truths of life. You are always free to choose your actions; not the consequences.

      Report Post » Grey Matter  
    • encinom
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:58am

      I am sorry, but the first time americans were slaughter on September 11th, by religous fanatics, didn;t occur in 2001. nor were the zeolots muslim, the LDS killed settlers in 1857, Bringham Young was invovled in the cover up and possibly gave teh order to attack the settlers.

      Lets look at the facts, the person in question was off campus, not representing the school, attending the university is not an invitation for the University to micro manage ones life.

      Report Post »  
    • Tipdog
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:05am

      encinom

      You need to brush up on your history. Now think really hard how fast a horse can travel and where Brigham Young was when that tragic event occurred. To my knowledge, they did not have supersonic aircraft nor did they have the capability of transmitting long distance communications via a satellite back then.

      Report Post » Tipdog  
    • cami777
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:07am

      I’m a fan of SYTYCD, and appropriate dress for dancing ranges wildly from lots of layers with hip-hop, to nearly nothing with contemporary. Little dance shorts and jog bras are normal and acceptable for women. When I saw this guy cueing up for his audition, I kinda held my breath for fear he was going to be disgusting. I was pleasantly surprised–he was a beautiful, talented dancer, and what he wore took nothing away from his performance, and added to the “lines” of his body. His dress was appropriate for his style of dance. The question is, what does he wear out on the street and campus at BYU? I doubt this guy is inappropriate in general. I have nothing against a code of modesty, in fact, I support such a code. But BYU’s code of modesty should take into account the setting–i.e. the swim team, the beach, the dance stage. It would be different if he showed up to class in little lycra shorts!

      Report Post »  
    • dcrabb
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:52am

      Encincom, you need to check your American History Dude. One of the first religious murders in America were committed in the 1692 by the Puritans who killed 25 people during the Salem witch trials. Between 1649 and 1692 about twelve other people were killed by religious fanatics in the colonies simply for being suspected of being witches. Fanatics/nut jobs/simply misled people in all religions (ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition?, 100 Year War in Europe) have committed vile acts in the name of their religion, that doesn’t make that entire religion nor all the others who live that religion bad.
      Regarding the dancer’s outfit: don’t dancers (and swimmers ala Michale Phelps) have those full body leotards? He could have performed his dance in one of those but chose to go with what he wore for the added shock value.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:12pm

      @ DCRABB
      Great post! Don’t waste your time trying to explain anything to ENCINOM. He is a complete fool, who gets his facts from left-wing heresay, and never provides anything constructive. He has no factual-based support on any of his arguements or statements. He obviously has no idea of the persecution and hate that the early-Mormons faced and it’s not worth explaining to him.

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • Grey Matter
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:35pm

      @ Encinom “the person in question was off campus, not representing the school, attending the university is not an invitation for the University to micro manage ones life.”

      It does not matter if it is off campus, during summer break, or the activity took place on Mars. The Honor Code applies as long as a student is currently enrolled no matter where they are. All students attending BYU know this. They have agreed to do it. The University has not forced this on anyone. They have willingly accepted it by choice. Going to BYU is not a right and is not required. You can choose to go to BYU and accept the Honor Code or choose NOT to go to BYU and NOT follow the honor code.

      Report Post » Grey Matter  
  • Sinista MACE
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:02am

    lmfao

    Report Post » V-MAN MACE  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:06pm

      @ DCRABB
      Great post! Don’t waste your time trying to explain anything to ENCINOM. He is a complete fool, who gets his facts from left-wing heresay, and never provides anything constructive. He has no factual-based support on any of his arguements or statements. He obviously has no idea of the persecution and hate that the early-Mormons faced and it’s not worth explaining to him.

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
  • pavnvet
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 9:58am

    Ah the Church of Later Day Romney’s…. C’mon folks, as said, if this was a swim meet there wouldn’t be a problem. It is part of the double standard Mormons are known for.

    Report Post » pavnvet  
    • El Paco
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:21am

      Hey!!! As an Alumni of the BYU Mens Swim Team, I resent that comment!! This is not a double standard. As an alum of said university, I can say that although they don’t elaborate on what “counseling” is, I’m sure he just got a warning from the Honor Code department. I must say that this is a bit extreme. I watched this show and he wasn’t prancing about saying, “I’m from BYU!!!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEE” so this is a bit extreme on the university part.

      While I was on the swim team, we constantly got complaints from students because of our “nudeness”. We just ignored them and laughed at their hiarity.

      Report Post » El Paco  
    • mlebates
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:05am

      You are completely ignorant. I am a member of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. What double standards are “mormons” known for exactly?? Oh an by the way, Yes this is a University connected to the church, but the university IS NOT THE CHURCH. Leave it to someone like you who knows nothing about a religion just what you hear on tv to leave an ignorant comment like you have. BYU (BYUI, BYUH) don’t exactly make it hidden what their honor code is all about. This article states he was not expelled, he was COUNCILED. How about before you make a comment about a religion you educate yourself to facts.

      Report Post »  
    • pavnvet
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:31am

      What double standards?? LMAO

      How about Marriott Hotels? Owned by an elder, yet will serve alcohol, and coffee. How about the “vision” that it is okay to drink Coca-cola once a Mormon bought a bottling plant. How about being asked why you moved to Utah? And when the expected answer isn’t because of the “Church” you are shunned. Been there, did that…

      Of course, if you are a Jack Mormon, none of this applies.

      Report Post » pavnvet  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:42am

      PAVNVET, you sir, don‘t know what you’re talking about…A swim meet’s a swim meet…it’s not the same thing…..duh

      Report Post » riseandshine  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:46am

      The double standard is judging others – like the mormon church says any christian today can’t reach the highest level of heaven unless that christian is baptized in the mormon church. Say what? And mormons want to be called christians.

      Sounds like they believe Mormons are the true christian – a few notches better than everyone else. Wow, real humility.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:51am

      I, too, am a proud member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and a BYU alumni. I always find it so interesting how Mormons are fair game when it comes to scrutiny and ridicule, even from other “Christians.” When going to BYU, you agree to sign what’s called an “Honor Code.” This is hard to understand for most, since honor (at this level) does not exist at other major universities (see Ohio State, USC, and countless other sporting related scandals). BYU stood it‘s ground and lost a chance at this year’s Final Four because they held a player student accountable to the Honor Code he signed. You will never see BYU involved in these NCAA recruiting violations and scandals in the name of winning, which I find refreshing. This Honor Code is pretty extensive and to most (like ENCINOM) seems like micromanaging. It is not anything you have to sign or are forced to sign. If you want to attend BYU, you sign the honor code. Why is that a difficult principle to understand? I would not have thought that this dance routine would be a violation, but then again, I am not on the honor council that determines such things. Shame on all of you, who criticize and degrade things of virtue and honor.

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • mlebates
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:56am

      AGAIN you’re ignorant. The PEOPLE of the church are free to do WHAT EVER THEY WANT!! They can manage their businesses how they feel is best for them to make money, they can speak how they want, they can walk how they want, they can even pray how they want. The GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST remains the same, never varies. Humans will be humans. The natural man does get the better of us. The Members of the church are not going to be excommunicated for serving alcohol at their place of business. It does not affect them spiritually. Besides. WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ONE PERSON FROM ANOTHER BASED ON A RELIGION YOU OBVIOUSLY DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT?! But I have a question for you. The catholic religion. Members of their clergy have been in the news because of moral issues, and committing crimes agains children. Does that make the religion bad? Because the PEOPLE of the religion make bad choices? Or does the teachings remain the same, and a few bad apples just happened to be apart of the religion? Look in the mirror and fix you, before you go throwing around propaganda that has nothing to do w/ the story that was posted.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:01pm

      @PAVNVET (aka “Jack”)
      How about Marriott Hotels? Owned by an elder, yet will serve alcohol, and coffee. How about the “vision” that it is okay to drink Coca-cola once a Mormon bought a bottling plant. How about being asked why you moved to Utah? And when the expected answer isn’t because of the “Church” you are shunned. Been there, did that…

      Of course, if you are a Jack Mormon, none of this applies.
      ___________________________________________________________________________________
      Marriott Hotels are owned by a member of the church, not the church itself. The church cannot and should not be criticized for that any more than the Catholic church should be criticized for its priests molesting young boys. Please provide the name of the “Mormon” who bought the Coca-cola bottling plant. That is the stupidest argument I have heard on this site. It is a church “recommendation” to avoid caffeine because of its addictive nature, not because it will send you to hell. Each member must choose for his/herself. I drank a Coke in front of my bishop, and gasp….he didn’t even excommunicate me!!!! You’re arguments are stupid and you are ignorant. Sounds like your lifestyle doesn’t fit within church standards and you have become a bitter ex-Mormon. I’m sorry for you.

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • mlebates
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:18pm

      Amen brotha Zazz, AMEN! lol

      Report Post »  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:25pm

      MLEBates, the people of the mormon church are just like people anywhere. It is the teachings of the mormon church that are bad. Brigham Young, the prophet, taught that Adam became God, and that we could become God. Jesus and Satan were spirit brothers. God lives on or near a planet named Kolob. God has a wife and they have “relations” to produce spirits that inhabit earthly bodies. God has a physical body like we do.

      Joseph Smith lied about his translations – for proof look at the Abraham Facsimile – a drawing printed in the book of Abraham (a mormon scripture) purporting to be Abraham, but all experts say the facsimile had nothing to do with Abraham.

      Bad teachings built on a dishonest man – Joseph Smith had multiple wives but never publicly announced he had the revelation from God that man should have multiple wives. On later, when Brigham Young actually said a man would not enter the celestial kingdom with just one wife.

      You’ll say this is all anit-mormon. It comes from LDS books. Research it if you have the free will to do so.

      Report Post »  
    • pavnvet
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:31pm

      As I said, been there did that.

      It’s fine, keep thinking you are better than others. I have been a victim of “Mormon” discrimination.

      I believe a true indication of how this all operates is when “Bring them Young” had a vision that pluralism was no longer proper on earth (but okay when you get to Heaven) in order to gain Statehood, (Well that and offering bribes to major newspapers in the country to support Statehood). So as long as folks that are in leadership have “visions” to amend a beliefs, I cannot take too much of what the LDS church says seriously.

      And although Marriott is an individual, the church doesn’t reject his tithing which is derived from the sale of liquor and other commodities that a “good Mormon” should abstain from…..In case you don’t realize it….it is called a double standard.

      As to the stupid comment that duh,it was not a swim meet. No kidding? It has to do with exposing the male body in the same manner. One was okay because it was a school (i.e., church) sanctioned activity while the other was not. Hence, a double standard. I don’t really expect you to understand that as first you would have to understand the meaning of what a double standard is.

      Report Post » pavnvet  
    • Joey8
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:38pm

      @PAVNVET
      “What double standards?? LMAO

      How about Marriott Hotels? Owned by an elder, yet will serve alcohol, and coffee. How about the “vision” that it is okay to drink Coca-cola once a Mormon bought a bottling plant. How about being asked why you moved to Utah? And when the expected answer isn’t because of the “Church” you are shunned. Been there, did that…”

      I don’t think you understand what double standards are. Here: any code or set of principles containing different provisions for one group of people than for another. So the standard you gave as an example is drinking alcohol. The standard we choose is to not drink alcohol. That code or principle is for all members of the church. If an individual in the church chooses to drink, does that change the standard for the whole church? If a member wants to chose to follow or not follow the principles, how does that make the whole entire religion a double standard? As for your coca cola theory, can’t just pull stories out of your butt and expect people to believe them. Church leaders have urged members to avoid addictive substance, but the only ones listed as a commandment to avoid are coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol, and illegal drugs. And some mormons were mean to you so the whole religion is flawed? Great logic there. I had a catholic spit on me once but I don’t blame catholicism. Where do you people come from?

      Report Post »  
    • Joey8
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:55pm

      @PERNICIOUSD
      Copy and paste from anti-mormon websites, good stuff man. Ive been a member my whole life and read the actual quotes that whatever website you copied from take out of context. You‘re winning us all over which I’m sure is your objective being the loving Christian you are. Would you be willing to tell us what website you use or are you going to say you’ve studied it all yourself from original readings

      Report Post »  
    • pavnvet
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:14pm

      As I said, you don’t understand what is a double standard, and as to that comment about a Catholic spitting on you, I wish that was all that I experienced.

      I am sure you had fun on your mission and hope you can find some nice wives to marry when you reach your reward… I have had enough of this conversation. In Utah, every conversation turns to religion.

      This topic would not have even been here if the kid attended Norte Dame. IT IS HERE BECAUSE HE WENT TO BYU and someone out there wanted to publicize the stupidity of it all.

      The end.

      Report Post » pavnvet  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:18pm

      Joey, there was no internet when I researched the LDS Church. I went to a library. I read LDS materials, books, etc. I read a lot of old stuff as well. It was during my six or seven meeting schedule with the missionaries. They could not answer my questions, so I did some research. They would come the next week, I’d have more questions, I did more research. I found the missionaries and most all of my mormon friends had absolutely no idea about the mormon churches history – the teachings from the past. They thought I was making the stuff up.

      I’ve picked up a few things since the advent of the internet. First, DNA shows migration from Asia and does not show migration from Israel. Second, a portion of the papyrus was found in a museum in N.Y. in 1967 and facsimile one, which is published in the book of abraham, has nothing to do with Abraham, according to experts. Three, the temple ceremonies have been changed many times, including removing the gesture of cutting the throat. Four, there were more changes to the book of mormon than I had originally been aware of.

      You can do the research if you want. You probably don’t want to. And you know what – if you comfortable with your life, you probably should not do it. If you content, that’s awesome. Only for people who have questions and may not feel the mormon church is the answer for them.

      Report Post »  
    • SkipSloan
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:28pm

      @THE_ZAZZY…

      You said… ” I drank a Coke in front of my bishop, and gasp….he didn’t even excommunicate me!!!!”

      I think here you are either glossing over, or are ignorant to the history. Whatever your may or may not be doing now doesn’t effect the the history. Coffee was, and I’m sure in places still is, held as an beverage to be shunned entirely.

      You see this is the issue I have with the Mormon church, no one cops to the history. And it seems the history is hidden from young members. I don’t know if your holding back, or just haven’t figured it out yet.

      Report Post » SkipSloan  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:39pm

      Joey,

      Best place to research Mormon doctrine in my opinion is this: Read the oldest version of the Doctrine and Covenants you can find. There have been changes, so you need an older copy. This from Wikipedia: “The book originally contained two parts: a sequence of lectures setting forth basic church doctrine, followed by a compilation of important revelations, or “covenants” of the church: thus the name Doctrine and Covenants. The “doctrine” portion of the book, however, has been removed by both the LDS Church . . . ” Read the Doctrine portion – you’ll see why LDS Church does not publicize that any more.

      Read writings of mormons from the 1830-1860 period – the faithful and those who left the faith, even some original “witnesses” to the golden plates left the church.

      Read FAIR articles – you’ll never see more contorting and twisting to explain the simplest things.

      then, you can hit the anti-mormon websites – postmormon.org, exmormon.org. Probably others out there.

      Peace

      Report Post »  
    • Joey8
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:45pm

      @PERNICIOUSD
      you and every other person I’ve spoken with on my religion claims they researched themselves yet you all have the same repeated and tired points even written word for word. Again, you’re missing the whole basis of religion, faith. Do you believe the Bible because of all the physical evidence or do you believe it because you read it and prayed about it. Do you believe in Jesus Christ because of evidence that he might have existed, or because, as Peter, “flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” You’re going about it the wrong way trying to convince people what you believe is true. you said your points are really “Only for people who have questions and may not feel the mormon church is the answer for them.” How about you ask those people to do what the Bible says James 1:5-6:
      5If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

      6But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
      That’s how you find out, not by visiting websites that have lists of why they think Mormons suck.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:48pm

      @SKIPSLOAN:
      I think here you are either glossing over, or are ignorant to the history. Whatever your may or may not be doing now doesn’t effect the the history. Coffee was, and I’m sure in places still is, held as an beverage to be shunned entirely.
      You see this is the issue I have with the Mormon church, no one cops to the history. And it seems the history is hidden from young members. I don’t know if your holding back, or just haven’t figured it out yet.
      __________________________________________________________________________________
      What? Your post makes absolutely no sense, so I’ll try to respond to the parts that do. Yes, you are right…drinking coffee is against our religion. Good point! I’m not sure how that relates to the point I was making in the post you were referencing??? You still haven’t answered my question…what religion are you?

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • mlebates
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:51pm

      JOEY, mormons knock on doors. When a person opens the door and says, “i’m a christian” the mormons don’t say great – and then leave. No, the mormons say we want to share the gospel with you. Because Mormons think they are the true church. Is that hate? Is it a hateful heart to share your point of view?

      Pernicious:
      Was it hateful when JESUS knocked on doors and offered his teachings to others even though they were living the law of moses? We go door to door (I was a sister missionary) to spread the word and work of the Lord because He has commanded us to go forth and preach. We as a religion aren’t the only ones who go on missions. MANY go door to door and teach in other countries, and even in our own. I will pray that those who read our comments recognize that the ONLY WAY you will know the truthfulness of the words that anyone speaks in regards to religion is if you pray to God and ask him w/ full heart, willingness to change, and an honest need/want to know the truth. As missionaries we ALWAYS committed our investigators to pray about what we were teaching them. Not to go off what we said, or how we felt, but to listen to the Spirit of God and acknowledge the role of our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost in our lives. We ALWAYS advised them to listen to the promptings they received from Heavenly Father and to act upon those answers. I challenge everyone RIGHT NOW who questions us to pray to Heavenly Father and ASK if it’s the TRUE GOSP

      Report Post »  
    • SkipSloan
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:05pm

      @JOEY8…

      You said… “Again, you’re missing the whole basis of religion, faith. Do you believe the Bible because of all the physical evidence or do you believe it because you read it and prayed about it.”

      I don’t believe it because it elicits a warmth in my chest. The warm feeling in your bosom is the oldest parlor trick of the lot. It is a psychosomatic response. If you concentrate hard enough you can make you foot hurt, or your finger itch, and after your good at it, it’s easy.

      Does your faith require that you disregard reason? I’m an unshakable Christian because I have faith that God, and his redemption, are real, and I have “reason” which daily bolsters that which I believe.

      Don‘t ever strap into a religion that doesn’t let you think!

      Report Post » SkipSloan  
    • Joey8
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:20pm

      @SKIPSLOAN
      by disregarding the Holy Ghost, you’re building on a sandy foundation. You can mock the Holy Ghost all you want, but when you pick and chose what you want to believe in based on your finite knowledge and disregard the Holy Ghost with infinite knowledge, you open the doors for false doctrine. According to you, you only believe in the things that make sense to you. Think of Noah and the flood. Would you have followed the prophet because of faith or would you reason that it doesn’t make sense that a flood would wipe out the entire world. Read the Bible and put yourself there, especially the instances when people were asked to do things that didn’t make sense to them. Smear this lambs blood on your door and it will save your first born. What would your reasoning in that instance? To answer your question, I always put my faith in Jesus Christ over my own reasoning, as He has the big picture and I’m an idiot although the Air Force did make me a little smarter

      Report Post »  
  • nacilbuper
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 9:56am

    was this the same guy that jumped in the pool?

    Report Post » nacilbuper  
  • beckisnuts
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 9:55am

    Why is this newsworthy on the Blaze?

    Report Post »  
  • CaptainKook
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 9:55am

    Uh….this is here because…..?

    BYU – strange institution.

    I wonder if their basketball team performs in trousers…

    Report Post »  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:39am

      It’s an awesome university

      Report Post » riseandshine  
    • CaptainKook
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:57pm

      I’ve seen TV broadcasts of the BYU choir on PBS – they have a very good choral and music program.

      Report Post »  
  • LoisLane1951
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 9:54am

    That photo is amazing. How did he keep from falling over backwards?

    Report Post » LoisLane1951  
  • TRONINTHEMORNING
    Posted on June 3, 2011 at 9:53am

    Yuck.

    Report Post »  
    • Ironmaan
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:08am

      I hear Rep. Weiners photo was similiar.
      http://guerillatics.com

      Report Post »  
    • biohazard23
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:13am

      Can we get a shot of Rep. Aaron Schock like this instead?

      Report Post » biohazard23  
    • Cerealface
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:15am

      World’s Muscle building contest wear less.

      World full of idiots!

      Report Post » Cerealface  
    • El Paco
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:22am

      The part of the episode was rather funny. Sad how there was someone from my alumni who was lame enough to “honor code” this guy… :(

      Report Post » El Paco  
    • ozchambers
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:24am

      Just based on this photo, its hard to give an informed opinion, but a male dancer in shorts doesnt seem particularly offensive to me unless the dance was sexually suggestive or lewd.

      Report Post » ozchambers  
    • Sheepdog911
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:33am

      Maybe this guy is the one who hacked Weiner’s account.

      Report Post » Sheepdog911  
    • dr_funk
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:38am

      None of the school’s business what he does outside of school.

      Report Post »  
    • D0ntTread0nMe
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 10:59am

      here’s the thing… I didn’t WANT to see this guy half naked… OK 90% naked… but I don’t think he needs counseling… he’s a dancer, that’s kinda how they roll.
      http://www.mythoughtsfromthemiddle.blogspot.com

      Report Post » D0ntTread0nMe  
    • Tipdog
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:00am

      dr_funk

      Actually it is when you sign a contract in agreement to follow the honor code.

      Report Post » Tipdog  
    • DTOM_Jericho (escaped PA)
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:10am

      I would like to see Barney Frank in such an outfit.

      Report Post » DTOM_Jericho (Creator vindicator)  
    • kaydeebeau
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:55am

      People no longer seem to think their word or agreements / contracts signed mean anything anymore. When all is said and done the only thing we really have is our word. And we wonder why our society is in the shape it is in now???

      Report Post » kaydeebeau  
    • grandmaof5
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:57am

      Personally I thought he could have done a better job with what he wore to audition. He got the reaction he was looking for so he will have to take the consequences. We’ll see how he fairs in Las Vegas and will be interested to see how he dresses.

      Report Post »  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 11:57am

      BYU has standards, but the standards are so low. In fact, the mormon church’s standards are low, to me. Introspection – zero. Challenging core beliefs – zero. Questioning authority – zero. Remember, Mormons believe that the President of their Church is a Living Prophet – they don’t publicize that a lot anymore.

      One of the Mormon prophets said about 15 years ago: “when the Prophet speaks, the thinking has been done.”

      Sorry, but if you stop thinking when your church’s prophet speaks, you are not on a spiritual journey. You are just following orders from another guy.

      To me, living like that is following a very low standard.

      Report Post »  
    • Joey8
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:20pm

      @PERNICIOUSD
      let me correct you. The president is a prophet, seer, and revelator, as are the apostles. The ‘thinking’ is figuring out if that’s true. Once God reveals to you it’s true, how often do you need to question it? How did questioning the prophet go for the israelites trying to get to the promised land? Once you believe God is God, how often do you question His authority? I’m sure the Canaanites thought the Israelites were living a very low standard believing in a prophet and all. Looking at your comments, you have some real hate in your heart. Hope you figure out before it destroys you.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:29pm

      @PerniciousD
      What prophet said that? You seem to know a lot about the church! The fact that you say the church does not “publicize” the belief that we have a living prohet anymore shows your complete ignorance. That is one of the main differentiating factors our our religion and it is talked about quite often. Your comments about the LDS church having low standards are ridiculous. How many other religions preach abstinence until marriage, refraining from alcohol consumption, paying a full 10% tithe on your income, honoring your marriage covenants, attending church weekly and keeping the Sabbath Day holy, etc. I can go on and on and on. The truth is that you could never live those standards and so you have to criticize those who do as blind sheep, who cannot think for themselves. I live the way I live because I choose to, not because a prophet has done my thinking for me.

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:30pm

      JOEY, mormons knock on doors. When a person opens the door and says, “i’m a christian” the mormons don’t say great – and then leave. No, the mormons say we want to share the gospel with you. Because Mormons think they are the true church. Is that hate? Is it a hateful heart to share your point of view?

      I think many people suffer in the mormon church because many mormons have told me to my face how much they suffer. I think encouraging people – including mormons – to think, to challenge the words of the mormon prophet – to research the LDS church history . . . . I don’t think that is hateful. I think it is encouraging mormons to follow a path out of the mormon church and towards insight, freedom, and God. I think mormons have been seriously mislead. I hope to say things to make some mormons think – and escape. Then, hopefully, they will not burden their children with the entire fabrication – so when the kid wants to live a different life, he is not shunned. Good luck, brother!

      Report Post »  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:42pm

      You wonder why Christians are reluctant to vote for Romney? Read the posts here and see how arrogant Mormons are. They think they live to a higher standard than everyone else. They think they have some moral code better than the rest.

      Just read the posts. Maybe when the mormon church shows some humility and maybe when the Mormon church stops knocking on Christians doors and trying to convert them – maybe Christians will accept them.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:43pm

      @PerniciousD
      You may not have hate for the Mormon church, but you sound exactly like a friend of mine, who grew up in the church and ultimately fell away because of the church’s stance on gay marriage. He let the fact that we believe in the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman destroy him. I don’t know about your God, but my God holds us, his children, to certain standards. There is one way back to him, not a different way for each of us. If killing is wrong, it is wrong for everyone. If being gay is wrong, it is wrong. You see, finding a church that “matches” your lifestyle is weak-minded. Changing your ways to fit what God has asked you to do takes strength and conviction, something I wouldn’t expect you to understand. Peace out, brother!

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • Joey8
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:47pm

      @PERNICIOUSD
      We can all feel the love and concern you have for us especially when you mock our beliefs as being very low standard and not Christian and being a ‘double standard’ church. I don’t get offended, I just don’t buy bigots bull when they try to tell me how much they care for me after trying to tear down my beliefs. I don’t vote for the politician that rips into other candidates, I vote for the one that tells me what he believes in. Seems that peoples only way to tell us mormons what they believe in is by telling us how mislead and unChristian and two-faced we are. Which of the thousands of Christian denominations do you belong to that I should join then? Rather than tell us how wrong we are, convince us of how right you are.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 12:58pm

      @PerniciousD
      I think it is funny that you call living our religion “arrogant.” Can you please show me one instance in this post where I, or any of the other Mormons, have said we are better than you. I’ve said we live with high standards. I tend to get a little defensive when ignorant people such as yourself and ENCINOM tell me what my beliefs are and what the Mormon history is. You are more than welcome to join the church and live the same standards…we don’t exclude anyone. What the church does not do, however, is change its standards to make people like you feel comfortable joining. I’m not better than you, nor did I ever claim to be. I would be real sad if fellow Christian conservatives did not vote for a candidate such as Romney, because of bigoted hatred to the Mormon church, and would rather this Socialist dictator serve another term.

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • SkipSloan
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:07pm

      @THE_ZAZZY…

      Your not keeping the Sabbath. What you honor is what the Catholic Church calls the Lord’s Day. It is fairly well defined history… The Sabbath is Saturday, unless the prophet overruled God and I didn’t get the memo.

      Report Post » SkipSloan  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:09pm

      Joey, you make an excellent point. I’d prefer to convince someone a different perspective is better. I’ve found, however, that mormons will not read anything that challenges their faith. Some mormons believe that if someone tries to convince them something else is true – that is Satan talking. There is some deep fear in many mormons of questioning their church. So, I’ve found the best approach is to first raise some questions – so someone’s mind opens up a bit – then they can actually listen.

      Try this out if you’re open. Go listen to Hinckley’s interviews on youtube, in particular the one where he denies the Church teaches about man becoming a god. Is that a lie? Or, do you even know about the church’s history of teaching that man can become a god?

      Are you actually open to being convinced that something else could be right? Seriously. Are you? Are you willing to tell you Bishop that you are going to a lecture somewhere that is geared towards showing some other spiritual truth – something other than the LDS church?

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:19pm

      @SkipSloan
      Your not keeping the Sabbath. What you honor is what the Catholic Church calls the Lord’s Day. It is fairly well defined history… The Sabbath is Saturday, unless the prophet overruled God and I didn’t get the memo.
      ___________________________________________________________________________________
      I am very impressed with your knowedge! You are correct in what you said, and that must mean the Mormon chruch is wrong, because we refer to Sunday as the Sabbath Day. Thank you for calling me and entire religion out on this obvious violation of basic Christianity!!! Apparently we didn’t get the “memo!” C’mon, funny guy, does it make a difference if our church refers to Sunday (the Lord’s Day) as Sabbath? What religion are you? Be a man now, and own up!!

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:26pm

      The Zazzy: you said:

      “Can you please show me one instance in this post where I, or any of the other Mormons, have said we are better than you?”

      Yes, your earlier post where you said: “How many other religions preach abstinence until marriage, refraining from alcohol consumption, paying a full 10% tithe on your income, honoring your marriage covenants, attending church weekly and keeping the Sabbath Day holy, etc. I can go on and on and on. The truth is that you could never live those standards”

      Really? I think God calls on us to do much more than that. I think God calls on us to question and to use the mind he gave us. Following someone who claims to be a living prophet – and believing it is true because the living prophet said so, I think that is a low standard – not God’s standard.

      You said you had a gay friend who left the mormon church. Most gays probably don’t leave the church. Many probably get married, go to church, some become Bishops. Just like many mormons drink, some molest kids, some do drugs, etc. Mormons are no different than anyone else. Except – Mormons go around saying they are the “one true church” and condemn people. Arrogance? kicking someone out of the Church because they have sinned? Don’t we all sin? Doesn’t Jesus want the sinner going to church?

      Report Post »  
    • Joey8
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:31pm

      @PERNICIOUSD
      Im still confused as to what you are trying to convince us of. Are you content with just showing us were wrong or showing us your way is right? Or is your way the anything-but-mormon way. The problem you face with people like me is that I‘ve read and prayed about the Book of Mormon and asked God to confirm to me that it’s true. He’s done that, and that’s never going to change. Same thing with the Bible, I read it and asked God to confirm it and he did. You’ll never change that no matter how hard you try. You‘ll never be able to convince me that God didn’t tell me the Bible was true because I was there, you weren’t. Because God told me the Book of Mormon was true, he also told me that Joseph Smith, who translated it, did because he was a prophet because a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. The Book of Mormon was his fruits, and by their fruits you can know if they’re true prophets. God also revealed to me that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world and you’ll never convince me otherwise.I don’t claim to understand everything the church teaches, but God also revealed that the president is a prophet. He can say that God revealed to him that we shouldn‘t wear socks anymore and I wouldn’t wear socks. You can mock me for that, but when the Israelites were bitten by serpents, Moses held up a rod and all they had to do was look and be healed. Many didn‘t because it didn’t make sense.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:38pm

      @PerniciousD
      You just proved my point. I still do not see where I said that I was better than you. I said our church has higher standards than most and that you likely could not live them, which is why you feel threatened. Dude, you show all the signs of someone who has left the church. That’s fine…it’s your perogative. We do all sin. I have more than my share, believe me! The difference between you and I is that I recognize when I have sinned and I don’t hold the church, or anyone else, accountable to my sins. You see, rather than correcting/repenting of sins, people leave the church and become bitter. If you knew what you were talking about, you would KNOW that the Mormon chruch encourages people to come to church, even when they have sinned, make it right in their lives and continue on. If you listened to conference, you would hear repeatedly talks on repentance and forgiveness, not chastisements and hellfire and brimstone. Your perception is grossly misled.

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • SkipSloan
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:41pm

      @THE_ZAZZY…

      You couldn’t have said it better… “I am very impressed with your knowedge! You are correct in what you said,”

      But then you kinda rambled a bit, and ended up here… “What religion are you? Be a man now, and own up!!”

      Sounds kind of condescending! Fact is, I am a Christian. I place my faith, belief, and only hope in the Lord Jesus Christ. He is in fact, the Fact! I don’t think I have to convince you of that. Yet there are lesser facts you might also want to realize. And one of those is that when “YOU” try to lord over others, others get dismayed. The Mormon church has done that for years. And it gets just as condescending as you do when it feels it is better than you.

      Report Post » SkipSloan  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:48pm

      Joey, I respect the fact that you have made you mind up (per God’s instruction) – and that you are not going to change. Hence, I think you would agree any discussion is pointless. There is nothing I could say, there is no archeological information, no theological argument, no genetic evidence, etc. that will ever change your mind. So, I could never convince you something else is right. Seriously, I think its cool that you’ve got your path. Best wishes. You may run into trouble when one of your kids chooses a different path, if they do. That is usually when things get crazy in families.

      The Zazzy – I never left the mormon church. I never joined. My entire network of friends, girlfriends, co-workers were mormons – for years. I went through the missionary lessons – they used to do a lesson program back then – something like seven lessons. I read the BoM, I prayed, I asked lots of questions. I went and did a lot of research in the library. People freaked when I talked about what I had read. That was some time ago. Some of that info is general information, but I‘m still stunned how little current day mormons know about the church’s doctrine and history – and the significant changes that have occurred. Anyways, I obviously did not join. God told me it was not the one true church. God told me to follow him, so I have done my best to do so.

      Report Post »  
    • Joey8
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:57pm

      @PERNICIOUSD
      And I respect your choice. And I never tried to convince you that my way was right or better. This was all about you and others trying to show how wrong my religion is. Focus more on telling people what you do believe rather than tearing down their beliefs, you’ll get much better reactions. I don‘t tear down other’s beliefs and I‘m sorry if you know mormons that have but that’s not the right way. The Good News isn’t about how wrong someone is, its about how right Jesus is.

      Report Post »  
    • Ironman42
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:59pm

      Will someone please educate me on what BYU‘s honor code on campus has anything to do with this guys personal life outside the University’s compound…hmmmmmm!

      Report Post »  
    • PIL
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:59pm

      Yuck? I wish I had a body like that. I’d be getting laid all the time.
      http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

      Report Post » PIL  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 1:59pm

      @SKIPSLOAN
      Well then, we have more in common than you think, as I, too, place all my faith and beliefs in the Lord Jesus Christ. What comes across as condescending to you, is a result of a lifetime of having to defend my beliefs at the hands of “Christians” such as yourself. Christianity is not a denomination, it is a belief system. Mormons, Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, etc. are all Christians. Do you attend church every Sunday? Do you pay a full 10% tithing on you income? Are you tolerant of other’s beliefs? What I have observed for most “Christians” is that they attend church when it is convenient. They donate a little money to their church when they have it. They treat the Sabbath (whether it is Saturday or Sunday) as any other day of the week. They do not pratice abstinence until marriage. They criticize other beliefs, such as Mormons. Mormon people have their issues, just like everyone else. Stop being so hyper-sensitive and feeling that we are being condescending by saying that we live standards that most of the rest of the world does not. That is a fact…watch the news!

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • Hep Cat
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:01pm

      @ joey & zazzy,

      I am an LDS member as well. You guys should know by now that arguing with people is not the way to help them see the truth. I defiantly don‘t agree with these other guys but arguing isn’t the answer. You guys know what is going to happen when all is said and done. We all work out our own salvation and we will all get the chance to hear the truth. We each have to accept it or not. It’s our own choice.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:07pm

      @PerniciousD
      I suspected something like that. You speak as if you had a background with the Church. Dude, I totally respect the fact that you looked into it, studied it, prayed about it, and came to a decision. If you decided against it, that’s OK. I don’t think you are going to hell for that and our religion, despite what some may think, does not preach that. I think we’ve had a good discussion here and I harbor no bad feelings for you. All I would ask is that you do not hold against the Church the failings of its members. We are not perfect and do not claim to be. What we, as Christians, need to do is unite on the things that we have in common. Can I safely assume you think Obama is the worst president ever?

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • SkipSloan
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:17pm

      @THE_ZAZZY…

      You said… “Stop being so hyper-sensitive and feeling that we are being condescending by saying that we live standards that most of the rest of the world does not. That is a fact…watch the news!”

      Classic Mormon! Look at my works, know that I am holy! You’re a SINNER!!! Same as I am. We have all fallen short. What you offer is the same thing I have heard my whole life, which I am sure is longer than yours, We are better! We are Holy! We do good works! You can‘t be saved unless you’re one of US!!!

      Report Post » SkipSloan  
    • SkipSloan
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:29pm

      @THE_ZAZZY…

      Again it goes back to history. You’re comment that we may have more in common than I realize, and that Christianity isn’t a denomination, has no basis in Mormon history. Mormonism has always claimed it is the ONLY church. And it is only after many, many years of that condescension that we’ve come to a position where you have to defend your faith against mainstream Christians.

      The Church was built on the prophets position that everyone else was wrong. It‘s only in recent years that the Church has adopted this ’big happy family’ mentality. And you won’t even pick up a book and read about it.

      Report Post » SkipSloan  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:33pm

      @SKIPSLOAN
      You are trying to make this into a heated arguement, and I don’t want to. I have obviously struck a nerve with you, because you took out the one sentence that you could use to prove a point and left out all the rest. I am sorry you feel so jaded and persecuted by us evil Mormons. You answered none of my questions and have obviously not read the rest of my posts, therefore, I am finished. Thank you for the discussion. Have a wonderful day. Romney 2012!!!

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:34pm

      The Zazzy, I don’t hold the Church doctrines and teachings against the members. Mormons are good people on the whole, the same way I feel about most groups.

      My opinion of Obama? You and him share something in common. Obama has been trying to convince people he is Christian. Mormon’s have been trying to convince people they are Christian. Many don’t believe Obama is a Christian. Many don’t believe Mormons are Christian. Regardless, I don’t think the label we put on someone makes them a good or bad president – or a good a bad person – or a good or bad mormon. It’s the person, not the label. Unfortunately, as you know so well, once someone labels someone in their mind, they have passed judgment on that person.

      Just between you and me, I actually relate to some of the more far out LDS doctrine – which the church tends to distance itself from. I don’t think the notion of progression, etc. is nuts. I’m intrigued by some of it – but more from a figurative interpretation, rather than literal.

      Report Post »  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:35pm

      ARE MORMONS CHRISTIANS? Yes, sure. But, mormons believe in a different Jesus than many Christians- which is okay. Mormons believe Jesus appeared in America. I believe Joseph Smith taught the Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Mormon prophets in the past taught that God had a physical relationship with Mary, resulting in Jesus’ conception. It’s different. It’s okay, but different.

      Fine by me if you want to call yourself Christian. But the word is just a label. The real question is what do people believe. The beliefs are different, no matter what label you use.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:44pm

      @PerniciousD
      Agreed and very well said! The only point I disagree with you on is that Obama and I alike. It has nothing to do with him trying to convince us of his Christian roots. It has everything to do with his hatred of our country and our way of life.

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • SkipSloan
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:45pm

      @THE_ZAZZY…

      Again… “What I have observed for most “Christians” is that they attend church when it is convenient. They donate a little money to their church when they have it. They treat the Sabbath (whether it is Saturday or Sunday) as any other day of the week.”

      Are you passing ‘your’ judgement? This is probably the biggest spiritual pitfall you can fall into. You are reminded daily that your faith is ‘stronger’ because your works are ‘greater’. It lulls you into believing that somehow your salvation is deserved. Remember the two men in the temple, and one was well to do, and had done great works, and knew it, and the other was a complete sinner throwing ashes on his head and crying out for forgiveness… You remember how that one ended, right? If not, I’ll give you a hint, they were both very surpised.

      Report Post » SkipSloan  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 2:52pm

      @SKIPSLOAN

      OK..thanks!

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 3:05pm

      The Zazzy, when you say he hates “our way of life” – do you mean the mormon way of life? There are many things I don’t like about the mormon way of life – a primary one being told to follow the prophet, etc.

      But, I think its absurd some Christians would not vote for Romney based on his faith. If they disagreed with his position and/or history on abortion, gays, etc. that would be different, but just to discount him on his faith is absurd. Unless, he said he would follow the prophet in his position as President. That would be troubling.

      But the irony is delicious. Mormons reject people who don’t believe in the “one true church.” Nobody suffers more than non-believing members, And, most members don’t believe. That’s why only 30% of the 14 million actually attend. So, its ironic to see a group who claims to be living a higher standard than others – to see them rejected by a group of (some) Christians who believe mormons are living a lower standard by not accepting the true Christ.

      Its ironic. Not fair in my opinion. Mormons don’t know the absolute truth, others don’t either. But the fight between those who claim absolute authority from God is fun to watch.

      Report Post »  
    • SkipSloan
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 3:16pm

      @THE_ZAZZY… you said…

      @SKIPSLOAN
      You are trying to make this into a heated arguement, and I don’t want to. I have obviously struck a nerve with you, because you took out the one sentence that you could use to prove a point and left out all the rest. I am sorry you feel so jaded and persecuted by us evil Mormons. You answered none of my questions and have obviously not read the rest of my posts, therefore, I am finished. Thank you for the discussion. Have a wonderful day. Romney 2012!!!

      I had to go back and reread… You asked five questions… Q: What is my religion? A: (already answered) I am a Christian… Q: Does the day of the Sabbath matter. A: Yes, I think it does matter, but given the state of Christianity, I don’t think it is critical…

      The other three questions were these… “Do you attend church every Sunday? Do you pay a full 10% tithing on you income? Are you tolerant of other’s beliefs?” And if it helps to boost your ego… No, No, and Yes. Now here is a good one I’d like you to answer… Does that make me less than you? But it’s a rhetorical question, because by your asking, and the context you asked in, it shows that you do judge me based on my works. And I have a long history of that same judgement placed on me by the “Church.” It is a difficult thing when Mormonism tears a family apart, and those torn away are coddled into believing they must cut all ties because my Christianity isn’t the right one. READ THE HISTORY!!!

      Report Post » SkipSloan  
    • LetUsReason
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 3:50pm

      Oh PERNICIOUSD……I’ve had the unfortunate task of reading many of your posts. Always hate-filled, so nothing new there, and always looking for ways to take a jab at the LDS faith. If there’s a story about Romney, or Utah, or BYU, or anything that might in any way lead to a discussion of Mormons, you always seem to throw yourself in the mix with hatred, slander, and deception. As Joey pointed out earlier, I hope you figure out your ugly inner self before it destroys you.

      Report Post »  
    • JRook
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 4:10pm

      Don’t the administrators at BYU have something important to do with their time. So the men‘s and women’s swim teams wear what?? How can we expect adolescents to act mature towards the human body and sexuality when adults who are supposed to be learned can’t. Let’s bring back school uniforms and short hair requirements to bring such terrible youths in line.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 4:29pm

      @SKIPSLOAN
      Since you took the time to answer my questions, I will continue on with our discussion and answer yours.
      1) I guess you and I are the same religion, because I, too, am Christian. Just like we’re both earthlings. I am a Christian first. There that is cleared up.
      2) Sabbath day…we can splits hairs on this all day. Saturday or Sunday, I choose to keep the Sabbath day holy. By not attending a worship service of some sort, you do not. Therefore, I am living the higher standard. Is it easy to get up early, get the kids ready, and go sit in church for 3 hours each week? No…it requires a sacrifice on my part, which is what makes it a higher standard than not attending anything and treating Sunday (or Saturday) like any other day. Convince me otherwise.
      3) Since you do not attend church anyway, who are you to call me wrong for saying that the Sabbath day is on Sunday? Enough said on this topic.
      4) The Bible says pay tithing. I do…you do not. Therefore, I am living the higher standard. It is not easy and requires sacrifice. See response above concerning sacrifice.
      5) You said you are tolerant of other’s beliefs, yet all throughout this thread have criticized and degraded Mormons. Mmmmm…you may want to rethink your answer on that. I didn;t ask you to join the Mormon church, but simply to tolerate it and not berate it. It is your problem if you feel threatned by its teachings.

      To be continued…

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 4:35pm

      @SKIPSLOAN
      To answer your question, “Does that make me less than you?” No, and I never said that it did. I simply asked you those questions to show you that Mormons hold themselves to and typically live higher standards than the rest of the world. If you have feelings of guilt for claiming to be Christian, yet you do not attend church or pay a full tithe, please do not put words in my mouth ans accuse me of saying I am holier than thou. It sounds like you harbor resentment and anger towards the Church for something in your past. That’s not my business, but I do wish you would stop hurling the “typical Mormon” phrase around to make yourself feel better about leaving the Church. The Church did not tear your family apart…the people in your family tore your family apart. I am sorry for the hostility you obviously have and hope that you are able to work those issues out the the Lord and your family. Best wishes to you.

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • JRook
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 5:05pm

      @the_zazzy Are you serious the Mormons hold themselves to a higher standard then the rest of the world. Have you ever met or got to know an orthodox Jew. They are so much more spiritually disciplined and steadfast than any Christian group or individual I have ever come in contact with. So please refrain from the “i’m in the best religion or part of an enlightened group” rhetoric. I have no doubt there is a higher power in the universe and I also have no doubt that humans have no clue what it is or any ability to reflect it in verse or prayer. The notion of claiming any major religion or branch thereof is superior or has a better view is to practice the highest form of arrogance.

      Report Post »  
    • the_zazzy
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 5:25pm

      @JROOK

      Cool..thanks!

      Report Post » the_zazzy  
    • jcannon98188
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 5:37pm

      Drinking caffeine has NEVER been against church standards. Drinking Coffee is yes. Drinking Coke no. Energy Drinks yes. Again soda, no. People who claim that drinking coke is against the word of wisdom know little about mormon doctrine. The prophets have never claimed that we should not drink soda. They have however taken stands against Coffee and Energy Drinks, leading people to assume (and you know what happens when you assume) that ALL caffeine is bad. But if ALL caffeine is bad, then we would be unable to eat chocolate also. Which is clearly not the case.

      Report Post »  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 8:56pm

      forget caffeine. Drinking BEER was not against word of wisdom at one time. Joseph Smith actually wrote in a diary about drinking a beer. You have to go back to older LDS publications to find that entry though – that sentence has been removed from more current publications.

      @LetUsReason, if I’ve misstated mormon church doctrine, please let me know how. I’ve noticed that mormons usually call someone “hateful” or “anti” or something like that, but that they never say how someone misstated the doctrine. Either because they don’t actually know the doctrine or they are embarrassed to admit what the doctrine is. For the life of me I don’t know why mormons are more concerned about being widely accepted than they are about being honest about what their faith is. People will find out sooner or later. If they like it, they will stay. If not, they leave. Most people that signed up originally have left. Just look at the attendance.

      But no hatred here. I’m a happy dude spreading the good news, hopefully getting a few people to do some research and get free from mormon church. Find Jesus.

      Report Post »  
    • PerniciousD
      Posted on June 3, 2011 at 9:15pm

      LetUsReason,

      Hey Romney just came out and said global warming is real and that man has contributed to global warming. I may not agree with him on that but I respect that he can break with conservatives and take a strong position. PerniciousD has said plenty of nice things about Romney just read the posts.
      Try not to be thin-skinned and react with anger. Just let me know when I’m wrong on the facts and take the kidding on non-factual statements in stride.

      Report Post »  
    • richard the lion-hearted
      Posted on June 5, 2011 at 12:17am

      I read many, many comments here tonight & I am truly amazed at you ‘greeny’ mormons continuing discussions (arguements) with closed-minded, underlying hateful, hypocrites (they are blind because THEY will not see). I am also equally amazed at the frenzied ramblings of so-called christians who think they get closer to God by calling themselves better than another. I also find it interesting as well as distubing that so-called christians reject or pick and choose the ten commandments (reject one and your spiritual growth can only go so far) they want to obey (Remember the Sabbath to KEEP IT HOLY), the countless scriptures (both old and new testaments of The Holy Bible as well as The Book of Mormon) refering to being chaste, virtuous, modest in your clothing, doing all things in truth and soberness, being MEEK, SUBMISSIVE, & HUMBLE, etc. One fatal flaw of many younger, less-studied christians is their failure to recognize the importance of not only refraining from sin themselves but also NOT causing another to sin by their own actions, words, or appearances (Which would be worse, the sins they commit against themselves before Heavenly Father or the sins they cause others to think, do or say?), such as revealing clothing, the company they keep that can lead to misunderstandings at best of who they may actually be or how they personally carry themselves. Finally, for a christian (?) to say that he doesn’t follow the Holy Spirit of which Christ himself testified of…’nuff sai

      Report Post » richard the lion-hearted  
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