Calif. City Changes Zoning Code to Allow Home Bible Study After Couple Was Fined
- Posted on June 22, 2012 at 11:00pm by
Madeleine Morgenstern
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Stephanie and Chuck Fromm were initally fined $300 for holding Bible study sessions in their home. (Image source: Orange County Register)
San Juan Capistrano, Calif. city officials have voted to change their zoning code after a couple was fined $300 for holding home Bible study sessions, KCBS-TV reported.
Chuck and Stephanie Fromm were cited last year after authorities said they were in violation of municipal code 9-3.301, which bars “religious, fraternal or non-profit” gatherings of more than three people in residential neighborhoods without a costly permit. Stephanie held a weekly Bible study that drew about 20 people, while Chuck held a Sunday service that attracted about 50.
The Southern California city ultimately refunded the Fromms their fine after their story sparked a massive outcry, and on Tuesday the city council voted to change its code so that such home-based religious gatherings will not require permits.
According to KCBS, the change conforms with the California Building Code, which does not require permits for such gatherings with less than 50 participants.
“There is no reason why any family in the United States of America should have to worry about the government crashing their home Bible study or whatever meeting they’re having because of arduous rules and unreasonable restrictions,” Brad Dacus, president of Pacific Justice Institute, told the station. The Pacific Justice Institute had represented the Fromms in their appeal against the city.
“We only hope at this point that other cities and counties across the country can learn from this wonderful resolution by the city of San Juan Capistrano to not make the same mistake twice,” Dacus said.
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Comments (170)
davecorkery
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:13amsmasaoka
Report Post »BTW, your “manufacturer’s handbook” wasn’t written by your manufacturer. Not one word. It was written by men, humans, who fooled the gullible (you) into doing their will. The whole process of making the bible is very well explained using Darwin’s theory. You should look it up. Don’t be afraid of thunderbolts hitting you while you read it, because your imaginary friend can’t throw anything.
COFemale
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:35amTo what gain? Your blantant attempt to horrify us Christians #EPICFAIL.
Fine you don’t want to believe in God or the written Bible, but I bet I can prove you follow some of God’s laws now. So that would make you a hypocrite. You don’t believe, but unconiously you follow his laws.
Report Post »bemo234
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:43amYou must come from that planet… uranass. You libs know everything about nothing. Like the trees you spend time hugging, you have no souls, but you will eventually answer to God, then you can explain to him how he doesn’t exist.
Report Post »bemo234
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:44amYou must come from that planet… uranass. You libs know everything about nothing. Like the trees you spend hugging, you have no souls, but you will eventually answer to God, then you can explain to him how he doesn’t exist.
Report Post »bemo234
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:47amto DAVECORKERY and the rest of you pagans,.. You must come from that planet… uranass. You libs know everything about nothing. Like the trees you spend hugging, you have no souls, but you will eventually answer to God, then you can explain to him how he doesn’t exist.
Report Post »Gorp
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:52amI find my neighbor’s weekend parties and in car “Boombox” more annoying than an in home Bible study class.
Instead of calling the cops I go over to them and ask them to turn down the “music”. It usually works. It’s a beootch to not be able to listen to my radio or watch tv over the boombox noise.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:54amThe ELS Coding of the Books of Moses (first five of the Bible)… have every 50th (Jubilee) letter provide a letter in the Word TORAH, meaning LAW!
This has been taken as More Than Natural… not possible without a Computer… and an Inspiration provided by GOD.
Report Post »RepentYe
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:12amYah! Darwin was the most enlightened, in fact his Cousin took his words to heart and together with a bunch of other people they initiated the movement of Eugenics. Like how about this other enlightened quote:
“The chief distinction in the intellectual powers of the two sexes is shewn by man’s attaining to a higher eminence, in whatever he takes up, than can woman—whether requiring deep thought, reason, or imagination, or merely the use of the senses and hands. If two lists were made of the most eminent men and women in poetry, painting, sculpture, music (inclusive both of composition and performance), history, science, and philosophy, with half-a-dozen names under each subject, the two lists would not bear comparison. We may also infer, from the law of the deviation from averages, so well illustrated by Mr. Galton, in his work on ‘Hereditary Genius,’ that if men are capable of a decided pre-eminence over women in many subjects, the average of mental power in man must be above that of woman.”
-Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man, p. 564.
Report Post »RepentYe
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:17amSo Darwin is the gift that keeps on giving:
“At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break [between humans and non-humans] will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the ***** or Australian [aboriginal] and the gorilla.”
-Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man, p. 156.
It was stuff like this that gave lead to Margret Sanger starting Planned Parenthood, seeking to cull the black population through abortion and sterilization. This same idea informed Adolf Hitler… He wrote specifically about things such as race in Mein Kampf. That would be another good book for you to read.
So slick, if given the choice, I will keep reading my “man-made” bible and suffer those consequences. Why don’t you head on over to the Atheist Utopia we know as North Korea. Its nice this time of year, you will like it.
Report Post »Nathaniel Horn
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:36am@Davecorkery
You’re entitled to your opinion. Everyone is. It’s God’s gift to us- free will. The freedom to choose. Chocolate/Vanilla. Left/Right. Good/Evil. But I don’t have to tell you because you already know that you’ve made a bad decision. Sorry, just the way it is. That place inside yourself which feels fear when you utter the words you have uttered. It’s a real place. It speaks to us if we are willing to listen. If you look inside yourself, you can see his voice and what he wishes for us. He is in all of us. He guides us from within and without because he wants us to make the decisions in life which will make us happy. It’s not a sterile hallucination as you so one dimensionally allude. It’s so very much more. It’s the overriding reality of all of existence. But then you already knew that, didn’t you? It nags in the back of the mind. It is within all of us. The freedom to choose is merely the freedom to choose God or to choose to turn away from God and our true selves. Look inside and you’ll see that you have chosen badly. But then, you don’t even have to look. You already know, don’t you. Maybe you were brainwashed in school. Maybe you had a rough time of it. Maybe you had too easy a time of it… :) Maybe you are just hyper-sensitive to the fashion of the day. Excuses don’t matter. Only choices do. Choose beauty, love, fellowship, truth and justice or choose death. It’s all up to you. Seems like a game. But it’s not. It’s deadly s
Report Post »SJvet
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:57amDarwin’s theory remains a theory, and a crackpot theory at that. It was based almost solely on the fact that monkeys sort of resemble humans. Zero evidence of evolution between species has ever been found, although evolution within a species is obvious.
Report Post »4QU
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:12pmRepentye: Read your mystical Bible…In the New Testament of the Bible — God’s holy word to his creation — it says that it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. In 1 Timothy chapter 2 it says, “I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.”
There are many places in the Bible where God talks about women. This quote from 1 Corinthians 11, for example, is odd:
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head–it is the same as if her head were shaven. For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels.
In Genesis chapter 3, God punishes Eve, and all women for thousands of years, with greatly increased pain during childbirth. No such pain is inflicted on Adam.
Your God is sexist..and also a mass murderer!
Report Post »4QU
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:22pmThey can devote an entire college course on how silly the Bible and the Christian god is..for example…
We are told that the Bible has no scientific errors and is utterly perfect/protected, yet it says the bat is a bird (Leviticus 11:13 & 19),
hares chew the cud (Leviticus 11:5-6), and some fowl (Leviticus 11:20-21)
and insects (Leviticus 11:22-23) have four legs.
Report Post »RepentYe
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:09pmOh 4QU, my bible does have such things in it, you’ve got me there, but yours does too; I just proved that. My bible has contributed to the moral society that once was this great nation. yours contributed to the horrors of humanism still alive in North Korea. your point is moot. now, run along.
Report Post »blackyb
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:12pmBe assured God is not mocked.
Report Post »The Giver
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:24pmWhy does my “imaginary friend” bother you so much? You are a Darwinist and thus so well informed! Please, use your time for higher causes like calling blacks savages ( as your god Darwin would write).
Report Post »Anyone can come up with a THEORY. It just takes getting some willing people to believe it. My imaginary friend loves you and you would see it if you ask Him to show you. He will.
The Giver
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:38pmWhy would a believer be afraid to be hit by a thunderbolt while reading the Bible? It must be a fear you have. Open it up and expand your your mind, body and spirit. Yes, spirit. If you get hit by a thunderbolt while reading it then maybe that‘s His way to let you know He’s real. The Christian truth come down to LOVE and FORGIVENESS. If you‘ve met people who call themselves Christians but don’t love and forgive… realize that they are also human. We strive to be more like Christ every day.
Report Post »Nicholson William R
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 2:41pmDave , it’s obvious you have all the answers for everybody. Now please tell us all , why are there hundreds of languages and thousands of different dialects ? If we all evolved from a common ancestry which Darwin assumes than why a split in a common language that supposedly was shared by all according to your god , Darwin ? If you can give us a logical answer , please do .
Report Post »anomnomnommm
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 3:17pmI always wondered – if evolution and Darwin’s ideas are just a “theory”, then what are the bible and its teachings considered?
Report Post »are you kidding me
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 5:04pmI just can’t believe that there is a law on the books anywhere that you need a permit to have more than 3 people visiting your residence at the same time. Out standing !
Report Post »CharlesMartel
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 6:16pmRecommend you read Matthew 24:3-31, so you can recognize the events when they happen. We are currently at verse 9 depending on where you live.
Report Post »Stormy1948
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 7:15pmWill this kind of stupidity ever end? Dear God in heaven, it really is the ridiculous watching the hen house, when you get fined for having a
Report Post »Bible Study in your own home.What did they think the people were doing there? Sheeese.
Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:50pm@davecorkery
G-d inspired the Scriptures as is proven by Messianic Prophecy. Precise mathematical proof using the same methodology the post office uses to deliver a letter. A few pieces of vague information on an address label can easily identify 1 out of 6.8 billion people on Earth. Much better Messianic Prophecy uses dozens of pieces of information written by different Prophets over the course of several thousand years to essentially address a letter to a person that would not be born for many centuries. Many Jews, expecting a Messiah because of the prophecies saw that Christ met the conditions of the prophecies and thus Christianity was born. Many of the prophecies were very specific and many could not be purposefully fulfilled. Nor could one man have have accidentally fulfilled the prophecies as demonstrated by the mathematical analysis by Dr. Peter Stoner among others. Christ proved that He was the awaited Messiah and declared that He was the only way to the Father. Therefore we know 2 facts, all other religious claims are false and that Christianity is the One True Faith.
This has been evidence proving our claim for 2,000 years. If you do not feel this proves Christianity true, please provide actual evidence for that claim. Otherwise you do not know what you are talking about.
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:31pm@4QU
Atheists murdered more than a 100 million people in the last century. What was it you were saying about G-d….?
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:50pmGuys, you have wandered off into a debate about God vs atheism.
The point here is that an American local government has managed to cancel a basic freedom. They have limited the guests that you may have in your private home, for any reason, to three. Unless, of course, you pay them – a further outrage – and they agree with your reason for the request.
They were obviously responding to a mischievous complaint about a bible group, but that is incidental.
The fact that they can do it at all is the most important point.
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 4:14amAnd 4QU, whose screen name is an unsubtle general insult to everybody here, joined this site a little over a week ago with, apparently, the sole intention of provoking Christians.
All I have to say to 4QU is 4QU2.
Report Post »Hollywood
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 8:23amYes,of course Darwin. Amazing how time and chance produced DNA structures. You are but a poor fool, who ignores, by what is plainly evident around you, that there is a CREATOR. and you stand condemned. Your Human wisdom, is but foolishness, and you will spend eternity wondering how you could havew been so foolish to believe a lie. I pray you will repent.
Report Post »mikerupp1986
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:35pm@Davecorkery When you are on your death bed what will you have to look forward to? When you know your days are come to an end, I highly doubt that you will still believe that God does not exists. I would put money on it but I don’t gamble. I really hope that your heart will be opened because the reason Jesus Christ died for us all was not to save us from the first death but the second which is after this life for the unbelieving or “lost”. God bless and I just wanted to share that with you so please don’t get grumpy :)
Report Post »stans5425
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 9:16pmBy the way, like so many others, Darwin’s entire work was 1) an effort to prove his worth to his father and grandfather, who studied the same topic, but couldn’t stand little Charlie, and 2) that he himself tried to retract his theory, realizing that he was in error, but by then the scientific community liked it so much, they ignored him.
Report Post »Melchizedek
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:49amJust another case of athiests (in this case two lesbians) trying to keep God out of everyone‘s else’s life.
Report Post »silentwatcher
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:27amI find it deplorable that it even got that far. The gov’t, whether federal, state, or local, has NO BUSINESS with what people are doing in their homes. NO BUSINESS.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:58amOn the other hand… Government should not be involved in Religion & Practice in any way; A Church should be Invisible to Government… not Taxed nor subject to Zoning!
Report Post »smasaoka
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:27amIf I am correct, this is the beautiful place where swallows return here every year on a certain day.Why do you suppose they return? Who has ingrained into them this desire? The same ONE who impressed the zoning to be changed. Amen and Amen!
Report Post »Jenny Lind
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:45amBeautifully said. As a little girl we went with our class to see this amazing event, and I remember my mom telling as I left for school it is God’s handiwork I know what nonbelievers and “experts” can say, but “He made all creatures great and small”.
Report Post »50211bs
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:57amSHHHHHH! you shouldn’t let the truth out, it hurts the feelings of the people that complained about the bible study(j/k). I can just hear the discussion of the city council “we better allow this, because when the muslims start moving in they will sue us or blow us up “
Report Post »NatasEvolI
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:05am“Who has ingrained into them this desire?”
I’m pretty sure it was their mother. Your god had nothing to do with it.
Report Post »The Giver
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:06pmI found that our creator’s attention to detail becomes more evident the closer you look, even to the level of cells and atoms. The behavior and actions of all of his creations… is fascinating. I have found that bee keeping has increased my awareness of God. Many people find God through gardening.
Report Post »I started reading the One Year Bible ( NIV version ) and it just makes everything click. Yes, I have received answers when reading the Bible. Don’t treat it like an untouchable ancient text. You’ll never read it then. I decided to have my favorite beverages and comfy throw while reading it. It is one of the many ways that God speaks to us. I can’t wait now to cuddle up with my favorite book every night. I am starting to see the bigger picture now. I am a political junkie and this is helping to put things in perspective.
Darwin’s theory is a theory. And we are supposed to believe that the Big Bang caused all the ordered choreography in nature? God created Darwin… he probably knows that by now. Funny that evolutionists think it’s funny and even primitive to consider the Bible a way to learn more about our Creator and Christ. They don’t laugh at what the THEORY of evolution expects us to believe. Many would be horrified at what Darwin actually believed. To each his own. We have free will. Amen.
Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:46pm@NatasEvolI
Do you have some evidence to support your claim?
Report Post »NatasEvolI
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:51pmPetey, you want me to provide evidence that mothers teach things to their young? Seriously? Do you even think before typing these comments?
The birds returning every year can be explained naturally. Behaviors are learned from their mothers as well as instinct. I’m pretty sure you know this. There is no need to get super natural beings involved.
Report Post »NewLife56
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:13amThe America that was to be America has died. I will pray, Bible Study, worship God anywhere, and everywhere, I shall obey GOD over men all of my life.
This country is dead, But Chirst, his words and the Gospel shall never die, this world shall pass away, but Christ and his kingdom will never pass away.
Report Post »TEXASGRANNY73
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:15amThis country is not dead.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:48amNot dead, just really sick…Time to repent and turn things around.
Report Post »G-WHIZ
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:03pm…An Ye shall rise from the ashes!!…
Report Post »4QU
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:12amLet’s say that God gave us these rights. Why would he give us a certain number of rights?
The Bill of Rights of this country has 10 stipulations. OK…10 rights. And apparently God was doing sloppy work that week, because we’ve had to ammend the bill of rights an additional 17 times. So God forgot a couple of things, like…SLAVERY. Just slipped his mind.
But let’s say…let’s say God gave us the original 10. He gave the british 13. The british Bill of Rights has 13 stipulations. The Germans have 29, the Belgians have 25, the Sweedish have only 6, and some people in the world have no rights at all. What kind of a god damn god given deal is that!?…NO RIGHTS AT ALL!?
Why would God give different people in different countries a different numbers of different rights?
Boredom? Amusement? Bad arithmetic? Do we find out at long last after all this time that God is weak in math skills? Doesn’t sound like divine planning to me. Sounds more like human planning . Sounds more like one group trying to control another group.
In other words…business as usual in America.
Report Post »smasaoka
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:30amIf you knew your Bible, your Manufacturer’s Handbook, you wouldn’t ask such foolish questions; make such dumb comments!
Report Post »4QU
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:47amYiour Bible is just a book of Hate!
Report Post »Stoic one
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:53am“Sounds more like human planning .”
In your pent up frustrated ramblings there, you had the above gem. you answered you own question. I hope you see this and practice more critical thinking.
Report Post »TEXASGRANNY73
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:50amAbsolutely ignorant. Why would anyone write ignorant commentary? Bored, amusement, bad arithmatic? Evidently all of the above. Try this oh enlightened one. Drip Drip. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the word of God. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Educate yourself. Get a check up from the neck up. Aside from that you have heard of free will?
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:50amBible is an acroym for (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.) Obey Acts 2:38.
Report Post »NatasEvolI
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:08am4QU – Right on. Our rights come from man, not from god.
Report Post »olliehop
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:00pmGod didn‘t ’give us rights’ in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. The Bill or Rights limits the rights of the Government, it doesn’t grant rights to citizens. Our rights are assumed to exist. The original 10 in the Bill of Rights didn’t limit government enough. Additional ammendments were needed including the 13th and 14th to end slavery and define citizenship to include anyone born here (among other things). (Thank you republicans).
Report Post »Further legislation was needed and the Civil rights act was passed in 1964 (after an attempt of 18 DEMOCRATIC and 1 REPUBLICAN senators to fillibuster it).
4QU
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:15pmYou have no “God Given Rights”
Report Post »Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:42pm@4QU
Wow. You say the most ridiculous things. The Founders consider that G-d has given us these rights because if we consider rights to be the gift of other men, the concept of rights dies. You only have permissions as long as the people with the most power feel like it. We built this country to get away from that kind of monarchical society. Your issue isn’t with G-d it’s with America.
Report Post »bravjim
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:29pm@4QU
Report Post »I realize that you are just a troll, and in the grand scheme of things you are pretty much irrelevant. However, to say that the rights we enjoy are not the gift of God is to open you to the possibility of losing your rights, because if rights come from the government, then the government can take those rights away. Perhaps that is the reason why you say it, because you want the government to come along and take your right to say stupid crap on the internet so that you don’t continue to make a fool of yourself, because otherwise you just cannot help yourself.
But more to the point, if the government has the ability to grant you the right to life, they also have the authority to take your right to life away. If the government grants you the right to liberty, they have the ability to take that right away. The right to life is not listed in the bill of rights, does that mean that you don’t have the right to life? Rights are determined by what is just, and government, throughout history, has never been just. As you read the Declaration of Independence, you see that the rights that we enjoy are endowed by the creator, and that governments are created to protect those rights through the consent of the governed, and that when that form of government becomes destructive towards those rights, it becomes the right of the governed to alter or overthrow that government.
kickagrandma
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 7:48amYOU GO, GOD!
satan, you go too right into GOD’s presence where HE WILL DEAL with you.
Report Post »RealLiibertarian
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 7:19amI completely agree that they should be free to hold their religious gatherings on their private property. What was not made clear was if this law was rescinded in regard to other gatherings. Religion should not be exempt from the laws and to carve out exceptions for religion is, and always has been, bad precedent. What I also have to wonder is if all the people commenting here about private property and the right to use it as you wish, would be so tolerant and forgiving if it were the local swingers club gathering once or twice a week, or if it were the locan pagan coven, gathering for skyclad worship in the back yard.
Report Post »Stoic one
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:55amThe article said all meeting at home under 50 participants. check again.
Report Post »nighttrainno9
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 7:14amWell, thats one for freedom, but 300 against freedom in the
Report Post »same time frame. Pay attension to AGENDA21, NDAA, OBAMACARE
and all the non-legislated laws being made by the EPA and other
alphabet soup agencies. One of the things buried in obamacare is
a law making it illegal to have a garden. There are now, so many
little laws that no matter what you do, you probably break 25 laws
a day. This will work well for the govt. when they begin to pick up
people to go to the FEMA concentration camps. You could be
arrested for having the wrong toilet or thermostat, if your on the
list you will be arrested for something.
JACKTHETOAD
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 6:53amThey better be careful there when the Swallows return. :)=
Report Post »Byrrni
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 5:02amI applaud this California city for using common sense and compassion for religious freedom for Christians and not reserving it for only the meditation and chakra sets. With some of the crazy nonsense that you see coming out of that western state it is nice to know that there are some pockets of rational thought left.
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 4:39amGood, California needs all the prayers and studies they can get.
Report Post »MRMANN
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 5:30amI wonder if a penalty would have been issued if the groiup had been either Atheist of Muslim, both religions. I’ll bet “no.”
Report Post »Prepare for the 2nd Coming
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 7:04amAMEN and AMEN!
Report Post »smasaoka
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:34amLest we forget, atheism, Muslims, and such, are religions, whereas Christianity-a personal choice to choose Jesus Christ-isn’t a religion, but a relationship. A big difference. And asking innocently, what songs do the atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, and other “religions” have? Notice they have none about their “Savior”?
Report Post »RealLiibertarian
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:44am@Smasaoka- Well, my faith, Wicca, has a rich body of music praising the Goddess and the people. So you are wrong at least on point.
Report Post »smasaoka
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:14amYour “god” isn’t a God, but a false “goddess”, big difference. Every religion is started by a woman always goes downhill fast and eventually…..
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:59amSmasaoka….
Religion is an institution to express in a divine power. God Bless freedom of religion to good not evil and love not hate.
Report Post »Conservative-Atheist
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:43pmThe ignorance on display in this series of replies is breathtaking.
@MRMANN…..Atheism is not a religion…online dictionaries are just a click away bud.
@smasaoka…..So not believing in god is a religion and christianity is not a religion? I can’t even begin to describe how absurd that is. I mean, come on, give yer head a shake, with all due respect.
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:47pmhttp://www.greatdanpro.com/Battle%20Hymn/index.htm
Report Post »bravjim
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:59pm@conservative atheist:
Report Post »Actually, atheism is a religion, because a religion is a persons or a group of people’s set of beliefs, and not believing in a higher power is just as much a set of beliefs as believing in one. As a conservative atheist, you should know that some sources of online information are not reliable because they are put together by elitist progressives.
scrapadapolis
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 4:38amWell so much for my lavish pool parties with hotties running around half naked,There goes my superbowl party with the big screen in the backyard and 40 screaming drunks yelling kill him.There goes my biker club meeting of 50 guys on harleys parked on my lawn.swilling beer and rough housing..Dam Are you sure Im in america??
Report Post »yippeya
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:04amscrapadapolis@Well so much for my lavish pool parties with hotties running around half naked,There goes my superbowl party with the big screen in the backyard and 40 screaming drunks yelling kill him.There goes my biker club meeting of 50 guys on harleys parked on my lawn.swilling beer and rough housing..Dam Are you sure Im in america??^^^^^^Little different activity then a bible studie, you would agree?????????
Report Post »RealLiibertarian
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:09amNo. Still within the rights and freedoms of the individual and property owner. No religion, including my own, should b e given exceptions and exemptions.
Report Post »stumpy68
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 8:31am@yippeya
Not in principle one group of people peacefully assembling
Report Post »should be the same as any other.
NJBarFly
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:18amIf you were doing it twice a week, like this couple, I can see it getting pretty old, pretty quick. What happened to respecting your neighbors and having a little common courtesy? They should have these meetings in a church or school. I’m sure if they asked, any number of groups would allow them in. The elementary school down the street from me is always holding church and prayer groups after hours.
Report Post »G-WHIZ
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:10pm…And thee hast never heard such a sweet ultra-deep sound as ….GOD’s HARLEY!!! :-)
Report Post »Apple Bite
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 3:29amNext, it will be, “You can’t wipe your backside with “that” motion….
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:09amI am curious how the “authorities” knew to enforce this law on these two? Sounds to me like a zealot atheist living near by found this “zoning code” and stalked and reported these people?
Report Post »Uranium Wedge
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 2:25amOhh thats so nice of them to allow it… As if they had the power in first place.
Report Post »Uranium Wedge
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 2:26amEver hear of the RIGHT TO ASSEMBLE?!!!
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 3:36amThat’s pretty much what I think, too, Cemerius.
But in addition to that, where on earth does any form of authority, from the Fed on down, get to tell an American citizen, a citizen of a FREE country, that they cannot have more than THREE people at their place for ANY reason, let alone a bible group.
If you would like to have three couples around for a Sunday barbeque, must you pay for permission from the local government? Are you insane?
You know, I have previously admitted that my country still carries a slight tinge of socialism, which we are gradually removing bit by little bit, but we have nothing that even approaches this outrage. And good luck to the NZ politician that tries to institute it.
This has nothing to do with religious belief. This is the basis of a free existence. It is private property. PRIVATE property.
Why do any of you guys, left or right, religious or not, tolerate this for so much as a heartbeat?
Are you not the land of the free?
Report Post »VoteRightDammit
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 4:51amAs I said, a lesbian lives 2 houses away and was bitter because the Fromms’ church was a vocal supporter of Prop 8. They called another lesbian who works for the city Planning dept who issued the fine. Continuing to have gatherings would have then required a permit that cost (??? can’t remember exactly, some huge sum as if it were a rock concert or something).
Glad for once the weight of the law came from the side of good against the gays, instead of the usual legal extortion they so often use against us.
Report Post »bravjim
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:30pmNzkiwi:
Report Post »Well, they say that we are a free nation, but the progressives here are trying to do something about that. This story took place in California, where they are much further along in destroying their freedom at the state level, but even some of the more conservative states have dumb politicians who think they are helping by growing the government. So, are we the land of the free? Sure, at least for now. This is just one story, there are more every day.
nzkiwi
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:09pm@ Bravjim
I have been an admirer of America all of my adult life (and have lived and worked in your country previously).
America is without doubt the leader of the free world, and deserves much more credit for this than it gets.
While my respect for the USA remains undiminshed, as you have probably deduced from my comments, this story has shaken me to the core.
I understand that CA is undoubtably your most liberal state, but I can’t imagine why even they would tolerate this.
If this is allowed to stand, (and they haven’t really changed anything, but just swerved out of the way of imminent backlash) what on earth will come next?
Socialism, like rust, never sleeps. It is very well funded and has an army of zealots. Your sole defence is your constitution. This is critically important, and yet some people are getting lost in a squabble about God, atheism, and Darwin.
This, no doubt, will give any socialists on this site a reason to quietly smile as they continue their provocations and lead people away from the actual outrage.
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:38amI am so glad that the policy (& money) was reversed.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:24amrofl, what a crazy rule!
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 3:43amYou’re so glad? What’s wrong with you.
This is an outrage. Who the hell do these people think they are?
People on this site talk about defending the second amendment to the last bullet, and yet, apparently, sat quietly by while this monstrous attack on your freedom was instituted.
Good grief.
Report Post »VoteRightDammit
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:34amI clearly remember this local story.
THIS WAS GAY HATRED AGAINST THE FROMMs BECAUSE THEY SUPPORTED PROP 8
A lesbian next in the neighborhood had a coven meeting the day of a Bible study; they cackled about the ‘Damned Christians who fought for Prop 8″ and called another lesbian who worked in the Planning dept. She issued the fine … and the City felt obliged to support their agent.
And gays wonder why people are coming to so despise them and their actions …….
Report Post »Dale
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:42amDo you mean that it was a selectively used/enforced zoning provision? I can’t believe that!
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 3:45amI can’t believe any of it.
Report Post »spikebu
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 5:59amI wasn’t aware lesbians had covens. I thought covens were witches? Never heard of a coven of lesbians.
Report Post »Thatsenough
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 3:38pmIs there a correlation between atheism and antisocial personality disorder? It must be…because instead of finding like minds, they troll these websites, attempting to foment hate and discontent. Stalin, for sure, Hitler pretended he was a christian but he was actually some kind of teutonic pagan, Mao Ze Dong, yes, Lenin, Marx, Singer (who cares for his ailing mother when she meets his criteria for a useless eater) Alfred Kinsey, I would count the late Christopher Hitchens but he’s found out all ready
Report Post »There’s anecdoctal evidence at at the moment of death, STalin sat up in bed, looked toward a corner of luminosity, shook his hands at it and died. Sad.
bravjim
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:18pmThat’s enough:
Report Post »Actually, the Blaze has been running a series on an atheist activist. He seems to be somewhat misinformed, but handles himself reasonably, unlike the trolls we see in here. He did however attend a catholic institution before attending college, and that might be why he seems capable of reasonable debate. Those trolls are Godless and have never had His influence in their lives, and that is why they are so nasty.
Warpspeedpetey
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:57pm@spikebu
Well, we already have a “coven” of witches, a “pride” of lions, and a “murder” of crows. How about a “butch” of lesbians?
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:13amWhile I agree that more than 3 people should be allowed to gather for whatever reason, I would get annoyed if my neighbors in my quiet suburban neighborhood had weekly meetings of 50+ people. Meetings of that size are just not appropriate for residential neighborhoods.
Report Post »marine249
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:25ammove
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:39am@Marine – Why should I move? This is a quiet residential neighborhood that isn’t zoned for this type of gathering. They just aren’t appropriate. At the very least, these meetings can lower my property value if they are a nuisance. Have meetings in a local church. Churches in my town allow other religious groups to gather after hours, all the time.
Report Post »Dale
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:40amAnd what if one of your neighbors decided you had a particularly obnoxious habit and persuaded officials to cite you? If you have no respect for private property you probably should not have any.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:49amDale – Every town has local ordinances as well as zoning laws. If I had an obnoxious habit that violated one of those ordinances, such as having a broken down car on my front lawn or grass that is over a foot tall, my neighbors would complain and the town would most certainly fine me. If I lived in the middle of nowhere this wouldn’t be an issue. But when you live in communities where the houses are less than 100′ apart, you cannot be an island unto yourself. Your actions affect the people around you.
Report Post »Dale
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:08amYou seem to be alright with that arrangement. I would prefer having property rights freedom (in case you don’t understand – that right is Constitutionally guaranteed – pursuit of happiness (property)). If you were my obnoxious neighbor with a broken down car – I’d try to help you fix it – you, it appears, would rather call the zoning department.
Report Post »marine249
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:15amNJBARFLY
were they running up and down the street?
Report Post »were they making to much noise?
were they drinking on the front lawn?
were they studying God book? Yes.
oh now I see the problem.
Captain Crunch
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:28am@NJBarFly
I‘m glad I don’t have neighbors like you. If you were my neighbor and you called a zoning board or some such authority on me for something that irritated you I would make your extreme unhappiness and sleepless nights my second career, with the goal of convincing you to move. On the other hand, if you came to me eyeball to eyeball like a person with courage and self respect, I’d probably want to try to get along with you and do what I could to be a good neighbor. Remember that next time you think about trying to be the neighborhood Marxist and calling the authorities on a neighbor.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:28am“that right is Constitutionally guaranteed – pursuit of happiness (property)”
That right is not guaranteed by the Constitution. You are thinking of the Declaration of Independence, which preceded the Constitution by many years. I do understand where you are coming from though. I would rather not call the zoning board on someone. The vast majority of people are responsible and respect their neighbors. I do my best to not be a nuisance to the community. If I had a minor issue with a neighbor, I would probably talk to them about it, rather than get any authorities involved.
There are a small minority of people however that don’t give a **** that they are living in a community. They have no problem lowering the property values of a community by 100′s of thousands of dollars. We have local ordinances and zoning laws to go after this very small minority of people. I don’t want to be that jerk, but if one house is causing a willfully causing a nuisance to the entire community, then I do believe the town has a right to fine them. I guess we just disagree on this matter.
Report Post »marine249
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:33amthat‘s God’s book
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:45amCaptain – I would only contact authorities if you were doing something well above and beyond the accepted community standard. From your comments, you also seem like a bully. I certainly wouldn’t be intimidated by someone like you and believe me, you would regret coming after me.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 1:49amMarine – This may be hard to believe, but I actually believe in religious freedom. I don’t care if this is a bible group or the local swingers club meeting twice a week. If it’s in my neighborhood and causing a nuisance, I would have a problem with it.
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 4:05amWell in this country, Barfly, if the party is too loud, the local council can order you to turn it down after a complaint. If you don’t, they can confiscate the stereo. They cannot order your guests off your property. Or fine you for having more than three.
If students have a party after their final university exams are completed, and set fire to their old couch in the street (and this happens every year), the fire department comes around and puts the fire out, while the police suggest they all calm down and go home before someone gets detained at Her Majesty’s pleasure. It would never occur to them to order your guests from your property unless they were throwing bottles around (also happens) or otherwise being obnoxious (this too – young, drunk and free).
But a bible group of more than three guests? You have set up a straw man.
I hate to keep disagreeing with you, but seriously, you can’t defend this.
Report Post »Conservative-Atheist
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:25pmWell I came to the comments convinced that this is just wrong, seemed like too much government control and out of line. But, NJBARFLY makes some very good points, like usual, now I’m not so sure. That’s why I come read the comments I guess. Always good to hear both sides of any issue.
Report Post »bravjim
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:34pmI can see your point barfly; I could understand it if it was just every once in a while, but once a week with that many cars and that many people could get a little frustrating, especially considering I work the graveyard shift.
Report Post »Diane TX
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:11amI wonder if municipal code 9-3.301, which bars “religious, fraternal or non-profit” gatherings of more than three people in residential neighborhoods without a costly permit, was aimed at Muslims. I have Muslim neighbors, and on Fridays, about 6 or 7 vehicles pull up with other Muslims in them. They all enter my neighbor’s house – stay a few hours, and then all leave about the same time.
This doesn’t happen every Friday, but about 2 Fridays a month. There isn’t any loud noise involved , and they don’t block my driveway – though they’re right up to the edge of my driveway on both sides. I wouldn’t have even noticed them, except for the extra vehicles.
Report Post »JesusWasBlack
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:04amAmerica needs to move forwards to be an accepting, socialist democracy that respects all races and ALL RELIGIONS!!!! THE CONSTITUTION was the original sin, made to oppress the black man and women.
It’s time to rewrite the constitution as a socialist democracy that respects all races, religions, and genders! America needs to re-learn the teachings of Derrick Bell so we might become a more perfect union. God Bless America.
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:07amTraitor and communist; go back to whatever commie country you came from. America is a true Republic becoming dominated by infiltrators and government paid lackies such as yourself; if you think socialism and communism are so fine go back to North Korea and China.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:13amChina, the perfect example of a capitalist command economy, and North Korea, with no economy to speak of–yes, EXEMPLARS of socialism and/or communism.
Report Post »Elena2010
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:42amI hate to break into your reverie, but the US Constitution does respect all ethnicities and genders.
The problem lies in those who selectively enforce it.
One more thing — Jesus was every color under the rainbow, if that is what you need. Ethnically, He is Jewish, sort of olive complected w/dark hair and eyes.
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 4:15amI couldn’t agree with you more, Snow.
Off to China with him. The land that not only controls your guests, defines an appropriate income for you, and murders your second child.
Report Post »JACKTHETOAD
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 6:51amThe only thing you’re right about is your screenname.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:56amYeshua was not black. Nimrod was black.
Report Post »Bay0Wulf
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:19pmUmmm … I think YOU are a HATE CRIME!
Go back to drinking your Jeff Jones Kool-Aid.
Normally I try to stick to reasonable, well thought out and logical responses. In this case however … there is no purpose to it. To quote a stupid phrase that is applicable here; “You are too stupid to live!”
Report Post »bravjim
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:06pmwow, you truly are brilliant aren’t you. this country does respect all religions, and if you want to live in a socialist nation, I hear that europe is beautiful this time of year, as is Venezuela, China, Russia, N. Korea. You can live in the oppressive nations of the world, we live in the greatest nation on earth because we have a constitution that guarantees our liberty as long as we remein vigilant in defending it. And to say that the Constitution was set up to oppress the black man, then how the hell did Barack Obama get elected? THe sad part is that you don’t even seem to be aware of just how stupid you sound. My guess, your one of those black liberation theology guys idea of social democracy means that the black man gets paid, while the rest of us get oppressed. You don’t even know how lucky you are to live in this country, considering that you could still be in Africa living in real poverty, not the made up poverty they talk about in this country. Or you could be living in one of those wonderful socialist nations that are either falling apart financially even as we speak, or living in poverty and not having the rights to free speech that even someone with your lack of intelligence.
Report Post »Haroldm1
Posted on June 22, 2012 at 11:35pmHow did the municipal code 9-3.301 get on the books in the first place…What caused the city council to limit gatherings to three people..This is completely out of touch with reality. It also sounds like the voting population should vote with more caution. I can’t imagine having a governing body so full of it that they would actually vote in favor of such a code. I expect that some one complained and they dug up this little code to satisfy the complainee…
Report Post »24iconoclast24
Posted on June 22, 2012 at 11:32pmIf a mega-mosque is to built without any apparent funding (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2012/06/mysterious-money-and-motive-behind-monster-mosque-in-mufreesboro.html) the DOJ gets involved because the claim is that the Muslims are being discriminated against. No one in Justice asks where all the funding is coming from.
On the other hand, if a small group of Christians wishes to meet in a home to study the Bible they are restricted by zoning and they have to appeal to a private, independent Justice group.
Something is wrong with this picture.
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 4:25amIndeed there is.
The muslim brotherhood, through its subsidiary groups, has succeeded in berating your various forms of government (state, federal, and local), punishing them with endless litigation, until they are whipped, whimpering, and compliant.
Meanwhile, these same officials land on ordinary, decent people like anvils.
Report Post »Thatsenough
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 3:43pmAgreed
Report Post »rickc34
Posted on June 22, 2012 at 11:31pmIt is getting to the point of a sci fi movie. Big brother is everywhere. I am glad this has been setteled for now but what if Obama wins? You know how much he hates God.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on June 22, 2012 at 11:16pmClearly a First Amendment issue. Local governments have no right regulating who can gather and for what reason. Good for the Fromms for fighting this!
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:11amWell they do have some reason to regulate public gatherings, and even to some degree private ones, but this is WAY over the line. It’s a clear overstepping of municipal authority and a violation of AT LEAST the 1st Amendment.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 12:35amI have to respectfully disagree. I think people should certainly have a right to assemble, but having two meetings a week of 20 to 50 people is excessive. If this is a small quiet neighborhood, I can see this becoming a nuisance. Zoning laws are there for a reason. They should assemble in a church, hall or other appropriate facility that can provide amenities like parking.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 2:20amIf people get out of hand, there are laws on the books against domestic disturbance–or just be a human and use your words and TALK to them if you have a problem. We are a LIBERAL democracy, by which I mean a nation of laws, governed by the rule of law, and a nation of civil liberties constituted within those laws. Those civil liberties constitute the privileges and immunities of citizenship. One of those civil liberties protects our right to the free exercise of religion as suits our conscience. Others secure our privacy, our papers, our person, our property, and our homes, from arbitrary intrusion. These are valuable human necessities for our society, and we must respect them to be a just and great nation.
Plus, I DOUBT a BIBLE STUDY of geriatrics is getting really rowdy.
However, your concerns are valid, I simply feel there are protections in place to deal with those kinds of issues.
Report Post »marine249
Posted on June 22, 2012 at 11:14pma ray of [ture] hope
Report Post »wordweaver
Posted on June 22, 2012 at 11:08pmNice to see common sense and clear thinking eventually win out once in a while in this crazy world.
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