Faith

Calif. City Plans to Refund Home Bible Study Fines

Remember the San Juan Capistrano, California couple that was fined $300 for holding Bible studies in their home? Well, after launching a legal appeal to challenge the city’s regulations, it seems that a solution to the drama has been reached.

Here’s the original story:

As you’ll recall, Chuck and Stephanie Fromm were found to be in violation of municipal code 9-3.301. The code disallows “religious, fraternal or non-profit” organizations in residential neighborhoods from holding meetings without a permit. The family was hosting worship meetings that ranged in size from 20 to 50 people.

Now, two months after the Blaze first reported on the story, the Fromm family is dropping their appeal after the city agreed to reimburse the $300 in fines they paid as a result of holding the Bible studies (they were cited twice for their refusal to get a permit — the first time for $100 and the second for $200). Additionally, officials have agreed to reassess the controversial regulations.

Fromm Family Settles Home Bible Study Case With San Juan Capistrano

Stephanie and Chuck Fromm (Image Source: The OC Register)

Following media coverage of the incident, the city received angry letters from people across the nation who stood in protest to the fines. The legal action taken by the family along with this mass response has apparently made a difference.

“We’re not looking to head up a battle,” Stephanie reiterated last week. “We‘re just so thankful they’re willing to work with us for the good of all the community.” Following the outcry, it seems the city is willing to do just that.

City Attorney Omar Sandoval said that the Bible studies were never a problem, but that the size of the gatherings caused the city to ask questions. ”It was always a question of whether they were a church or not, and they were not,” he said.

The Fromm family continues to hold Bible studies at their home and looks forward to the ordinance being changed. According to Sandoval, the city plans to be clearer about the regulations governing large gatherings in private homes.

Apparently, clarified rules would state that gatherings that occur less than once per week with fewer than 25 people would not need to apply for a conditional use permit. Other changes may follow.

(H/T: Urban Christian News)

Comments (66)

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  • mrsalvage2
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 4:53pm

    Bow not to unconstitutional Rules and laws (West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette)

    Confront the perverts of the Lawyer ARistorcracy with their Treason as THURSTON BELL wrote of below.

    Report Post » mrsalvage2  
  • tootsie roll
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 4:32pm

    Our government especially Calif. land of fruit and nuts are getting to be like Nazi. We are guaranteed freedoms in our home and this rule is a clear violations of our constitutional freedom. When one neighbor or the city states how many people can be in your home that is like being in a Communists country. As I remember they had a large property so sound would not be a problem. The neighbor is propbably an Atheists

    Report Post »  
  • jungle J
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 3:43pm

    bureaucrats are and always have been very dangerous and self serving.

    Report Post »  
    • SomeRandomPerson
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 4:28pm

      They’d be fighting a loosing battle if they took it to court. It’s like they said, just a few like minded people gathering in their own home. I don’t see a problem with that.

      Report Post »  
  • loriann12
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 3:40pm

    Can we keep it on topic, please?

    Report Post »  
  • Skrewedretiree
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 3:19pm

    Oh, for God’s sake- READ THE CONSTITUTION! The right of the People to peacefully assemble. It says nothing about bible studies, weddings, parties or how often they can assemble. One would expect this from Kalipornia. As for the comments about “opening a door” regarding mooslum calls to prayer, they are already doing that in New York and other places without restraint. What about the Occupy Wall Street crowd? Show me THEIR permits, Kalipornia!

    Report Post » Skrewedretiree  
    • chuckfromm
      Posted on November 24, 2011 at 12:45am

      yes it feels like we are in an ABC culture.. .Anything But Christian

      Report Post » chuckfromm  
  • jessieH
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 2:40pm

    Never should have happened in the first place.

    Report Post »  
  • AmericaTheFree
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 2:15pm

    They should fight these regulations because they will still limit it to less than once a week and for less than 25. The story says that they typically had 25-50 people. Also, what if you wanted to have weekly study? This is no victory.

    Report Post » AmericaTheFree  
    • NoRoomForSocialismHere
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 2:41pm

      Carefull, if you want to open the door in your neighborhood to the call to prayer by the Muslims. Your home is your castle and place of privacy. A guiet Bible study inside the house is one thing but 50 people singing and such is not what you want while your baby is taking a nap. Not acceptable

      Report Post »  
    • Jomil48
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 2:45pm

      I agree, they should continue the appeal, as long as they are not disturbing the neighbors, and not violating a noise regulation, it is no ones buissness what they hold in their home. Does that mean you could never have a family reunion at their house.

      Report Post »  
    • chuckfromm
      Posted on November 24, 2011 at 12:48am

      YES WE ARE !! but the momentum in SJC (thanks to the media interestingly enough) is awakening basic instincts for freedom and moving are way for more common sence and less regulative state. WE ARE FIGHTING THE GOAL IS THE SAME .. TACTICS CAN CHANGE

      Report Post » chuckfromm  
  • SFsuper49er
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 2:01pm

    Wow… Look what you can do when good people stick together…. That’s what needs to happen for the Country…

    Report Post »  
    • Dont-hate-on-me-2
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 2:22pm

      Apparently, clarified rules would state that gatherings that occur less than once per week with fewer than 25 people would not need to apply for a conditional use permit. Other changes may follow.

      So basicly your private porperty is no longer yours to do as you please with. This in no party we are talking about, we are talking about people freely- choosing to gather and pray. The city is still unwilling to yeild that what you do and how many is none of there bizness. I say its none of there f ing business if i choose to invite 30 people to my house 2, 3 or even 7 days a week. I wouldnt tho, the parking would be a mess. But the piont is, do we live in a free country….. We are at the mercy of the nobles basicly

      Report Post » Dont-hate-on-me-2  
  • Locked
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:58pm

    Glad they will change the ordinance. I‘m sure it started from an angry neighbor who didn’t like their worship, but the point of the ordinance in the first place was understandable: no one wants every side of the street filled up with cars. Hopefully they will reach a happy medium where people will be satisfied.

    Report Post »  
  • Thurston Bell
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:51pm

    What!?
    Justice? Really?

    The problem is the ordinance. It is completely the issue of the ordinance since the 1st Amendment sets for the Freedom of Religion, Association, and Assembly, and the 5th Amendment gurantees Private Property Rights.

    Then when that is coupled with the case of West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, it is clear that no rule, law, or ordinance can interfere with unalienable Rights.

    As if that was not enough, the Preamble to the Bill of Rights completely removed the authority of the Court to do anything but protect individual rights against assault by the State. Nevertheless, despite the stated duty fo the Court to protect unalienable RIghts in Byars v. US and Mugler v. Kanses, the Court did not follow the Preamble, its Oath of Office, and Oath as a Lawyer.

    Why that is, the Book that the Law Clerks, Lawyers, Court Clerks, Law Students, and Judges practice from has removed the Preamble of the Bill of Rights from any consideration in the government officials executing their duty to Justice..

    Report Post » Thurston Bell  
  • mbean
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:22pm

    The power of prayer: “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you”

    Report Post » mbean  
    • Ruler4You
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:26pm

      “refunding” their money isn’t the issue. It‘s that ’government’ thinks it has the authority to act this way in the first place.

      Report Post » Ruler4You  
    • NoRoomForSocialismHere
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 2:45pm

      The issue is your privacey at home, freedom from the outside world. You are opeining the door to freedoms not normal in a neighborhood. Islam and strip joints next. BLOCKED DRIVEWAYS, dont be idiots, your acting like OWS now

      Report Post »  
  • B-Neil
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:18pm

    You will find thet elected officials conduct meetings in there homes without permits. Polosi land what can you expect. CARRY ON McDUFF

    Report Post »  
    • Locked
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:51pm

      “Polosi land what can you expect. ”

      (Raises a dubious eyebrow)
      Pelosi is the representative of the 8th congressional district, which is in and around San Francisco. San Juan Capistrano, the city in question, is in the 44th and 48th congressional districts. The distance between the two is over 400 miles; or roughly the driving distance from Jacksonville FL, to Fayetteville, NC.

      Same state, but hardly “Pelosi land”

      Report Post »  
    • Locked
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 2:33pm

      Also note that their representative is a Republican.

      Report Post »  
  • svan71
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:16pm

    Im sure every party with more than 25 people in CA receives a permit..

    Report Post » svan71  
  • SREGN
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:15pm

    We were supposed to be a nation of sovereign individuals. Now we are all subservient subjects of the state. Time for another revolution.

    Report Post »  
  • NewLife56
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:03pm

    I miss the United States of America, what a great nation we once were. We were able to worship as we wished without any Government intervention. One of the main reasons we became a nation, now along with Obama, were about back to where we started. Tyranny.

    Report Post » NewLife56  
    • mtnhimike
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:09pm

      Amen !!!

      Report Post »  
    • garyM
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:14pm

      These people think returning this fine money will set things right with God? They will pay for their sins lest they repent and take the free gift Jesus offers. They know not what they do, if they did, they would not do it!

      Report Post »  
    • rs9
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:16pm

      I wonder what would happen if they were holding “Bug Chaser” parties

      Report Post »  
  • garyM
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:01pm

    OFF TOPIC:
    Michelle recently mentioned loving steak and arugula, she misses turnip greens because they have been outlawed in the White House! LOL

    Report Post »  
  • smackdown33
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:53pm

    The incessant attack on Christianity is what this is all about. They throw it up on the wall. If it sticks great. If not, nothing lost. Lawyers are the enemy to a free society. Actually, it’s the out of control system constructed by lawyers.

    Report Post »  
  • bigfatslob
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:46pm

    And this happened in San Juan Capistrano. the home mission of Father Uniperro Sara , I guess the damn City Council forgot their roots…ehhh????

    Report Post » bigfatslob  
    • drattastic
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:50pm

      My question is would the city ever have tried to fine a gathering of atheist ? or a party of some kind ? Of course they wouldn’t . So what does that tell us ?

      Report Post » drattastic  
    • JMJMX4
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 2:00pm

      It’s Father Junipero Serra, but I agree that it’s ironic. I wish the couple would have challenged the legality of the case and not just drop it. Someone else might have to fight that battle because the left will never stop.

      Report Post »  
  • SingerGuy
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:45pm

    My church has something called “firesides” for our youth. It would not be uncommon for 40 teenagers and their leaders to gather at someone’s home on a Sunday night to listen to a religiously inspiring speaker. My home has been the venue several times over the years. It sounds like they still want to make gatherings like that get a permit. This is Exhibit A for government out of control.

    Report Post » SingerGuy  
  • Sniper342
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:39pm

    It all goes back to big brother being able to tell you what you can do on your own property. I too think the suit should go forward. It is time for all patriots to rise up and tell the government ( local and federal) to get the hell out of our lives.

    Report Post »  
    • Anonymous T. Irrelevant
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:58pm

      I agree. The city was stepping on their right to religious freedom in the privacy of their own home.
      I doubt they would make a group of swingers get a permit to have an orgy.

      Report Post » Anonymous T. Irrelevant  
    • Mtroom
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:37pm

      In my opinion, this law isn’t part of that “big brother” stuff you speak of…I bet if you check on it and when it was written, this law was to combat against something completely different than this issue..Being that it is written in black and white, over the years the true reason for this law has been lost..There are still many laws on the books that are out dated, and have been misinterpreted…One I can recall off the top of my head is…Did you know?..It is illegal to bathe with your horse in New Jersey.. What we see as a person bathing with a horse today, would not be what the law was intended for. Your get the “big brother out” stuff I fully agree with, but this law, I feel, was just misinterpreted. People are attacking all religions, from all sides now, more than they have in centuries..All faiths are pulling together at record rates..The war of religions has never stopped and never will…Sorry to say that, but it’s true..Even here in America, where you are free to your religious beliefs, the war continues…Think this way a second…Utah..First thing in your mind? Mormons…Kansas…Bible belt…Pennsylvania ….Quaker state..Even in America it has been divided…While some religions tolerate others, they still divide themselves..

      Report Post » Mtroom  
    • deeberj
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:49pm

      I completely agree with you. The law will be changed this way: “Apparently, clarified rules would state that gatherings that occur less than once per week with fewer than 25 people would not need to apply for a conditional use permit. Other changes may follow.”

      I would keep the lawsuit to make sure “other changes” will definately follow. Maybe I am reading this wrong, but it sounds like they are saying if they have 26 or more people show up ever, or if they have a meeting once a week with however many people, they will be breaking the law again unless they get a permit. This is too gov’t intrusive, I think.

      Report Post » deeberj  
    • deeberj
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:53pm

      MTRoom, you said:

      ” People are attacking all religions, from all sides now, more than they have in centuries”

      I think a few religions are left out from being attacked in the USA. When it the last time you heard Islam attacked except by those attempting to highlight it’s violence? It’s politically incorrect to call Islam anything other than a peaceful religion.

      Report Post » deeberj  
  • takingonissues.com
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:33pm

    The commies & socialists start to break down a country by breaking down the religious sector…watch out America, this is only the beginning. http://www.takingonissues.com

    Report Post »  
  • cemerius
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:28pm

    Too many politicians in California!!!!

    Report Post » cemerius  
    • Detroit paperboy
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:36pm

      Our government is cmpletely and totally out of control on every level, it could be slashed fifty percent across the board and nobody would notice. Except the lazy govt workers of course, and their due collecting union thugs….

      Report Post »  
    • VoteRightDammit
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:46pm

      Oh, heck – if the woes here in California were that simple it would be an outright blessing. Unfortunately, it goes way, way farther than that.

      The unions (correctly) consider Sacramento as a wholly-owned subsidiary. There is such an absence of ‘democracy’ in the state that even Jerry BROWN can get himself elected. And, despite the well-known impending collapse of the state’s economy, there is a total of ZERO interest in turning away from the mad dash toward the cliff.

      The fact this could happen to a large state – once a shining example of prosperity – makes me very, very nervous about the future of our country.

      Report Post » VoteRightDammit  
  • paulusmaximus
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:26pm

    City Attorney Omar Sandoval said” that the Bible studies were never a problem, but that the size of the gatherings caused the city to ask questions.”
    ”It was always a question of whether they were a church or not, and they were not,” he said.
    So bible study is not illegal only churches! The suit should go forward!

    Report Post » paulusmaximus  
    • seesawprd
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:41pm

      Amen! California will surely lead the downfall of the other 56 states if we allow it to. We REALLY need to wake up as socialists infest our govt. I personally thank God for Glenn and others at the Blaze for bringing issues to light.

      Report Post »  
    • TheVoice1
      Posted on November 22, 2011 at 1:13pm

      See
      California will surely lead the downfall of the other 56 states

      Been listening to Obama a tad too much, we do not have 57 states here in America. I agree with the thought though.

      Stand Strong America

      Report Post » TheVoice1  
  • bassist237
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:25pm

    So what about birthday parties with more than 25 people, need a permit for that too? Or, crap, Thanksgiving is coming up, if your family has more than 25 people, you must be screwed? Or, wait, Christmas comes right after that, that is a religious holiday, that surely must be fined… Stupid no common sense laws. This country is writhe with them.

    Report Post » bassist237  
  • lukerw
    Posted on November 22, 2011 at 12:24pm

    Forming… a Phalanx… works!

    Report Post » lukerw  
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