Calif. School District Changes Policy After Trying to Ban Disabled Boy’s Christian Talent-Show Song
- Posted on March 23, 2011 at 10:57am by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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The Los Angeles Unified School District has changed a controversial policy after it tried to prevent a disabled boy from dancing to a Christian song at a school talent show.
In early February, Superior Street Elementary School principal Jerilyn Shubert told one fifth grader and his parents that the boy’s planned performance was too “offensive” because of its Christian elements. The principal said the boy’s dance performance to the song “We Shine” was violation of the “separation of church and state” and asked why he couldn’t “pick a song that does not say Jesus so many times.”
The boy‘s parents sued the district citing a violation of the boy’s First Amendment rights. The school eventually reversed its decision and let the boy perform the song, but parents continued with the suit until the district changed one of its policies. It did. Foxnews.com explains:
The school district has now agreed to a settlement, revising its District Bulletin to read: “Student speakers at student assemblies and extracurricular activities such as sporting events or talent shows may not be selected on a basis that either favors or disfavors religious speech.”
According to the Daily Mail, the young boy suffers from cerebral palsy.
The Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal group that filed lawsuit on the student’s behalf, has now filed a voluntary dismissal of the lawsuit in light of the policy change.
“Christian students shouldn’t be censored at public schools just because district officials consider religious speech to be offensive,” said ADF Senior Counsel David Cortman in a statement.
The statement noted that “officials approved the following songs for the show: ‘Freak the Freak Out,’ focusing on relationship problems, ‘Shake It Up,’ with the theme of dancing and celebrating, and ‘Eye of the Tiger,‘ with lyrics stating that ’we kill with the skill to survive.’”
“The school district is doing the right thing by changing its policy to protect students’ constitutionally protected rights so that censorship of religious speech no longer occurs during student activities,” Cortman added.
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Comments (145)
BetsyRoss1513
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:07pmFor Pete’s sake, its a TALENT show! Leave the kid alone! I’m SO glad my kids are done with school – the schools only job anymore is KILLIING the fun in anything. No wonder kids QUIT! I would too!
Report Post »cashprize
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:04pmActually to put it in modern words. ” Congress shall not make any laws seeking to prop up or disrupt religion and neither shall it do anything to stop it from being freely acted out.”
In short congress should leave religion along as long as it does not infringe on the constitutional rights of another individual.
The wall in Jefferson’s mind keeps government from coercing religion for its own purposes.
It also keep religious people from trying to make the congress coop religion to control the
people..
ITS ALL ABOUT WHAT CONGRESS SHALL NOT DO.!
Report Post »Not what some little child or person might do or say religiously where ever they may do
or say it.
DailyLiberty
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:03pmThere is no real separation of church and state. It was invented much later after the constitution was written. The Constitution mearly prevents the Federal Government from establishing a state mandated religion. It doesn’t prevent the states or local towns from having public talent shows with little kids singing about god. Open your eyes and think for yourself. Stop being such a sheep.
Report Post »jim
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:54amIt takes a law suit to allow something good and wholesome in schools… while songs and rap music with subjects on violence, sex, drugs and anti-American sentiment are perfectly acceptable. Public education in this country, ruled by the liberal progressives, is sadly taking a downward spiral straight to h***. And all of our young citizens… impressionable students… are evolving into hate filled, empty headed pawns of the left.
Report Post »UlyssesP
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:49amThe only “separation” this has to do with is the separation of the fools from the righteous.
Report Post »ProgressiveLiberalMarine
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:07pmYeah, insult atheists, that’ll turn us christian real quick.
Report Post »Rapunzel
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 2:33pm“The fool says in his heart ‘There is no God’.” Psalm 14:1
Report Post »ProgressiveLiberalMarine
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 3:24pm“Using bible passages in a conversation about religion when one of the parties does not believe it’s power is useless.” ProgressiveLiberalMarine March 23, 2011 3:25 pm
Report Post »Libertyluvnmomma
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 5:16pmSo liberal marine- why are you here? something makes you come back day after day.
Report Post »There’s a lot of Christian people here. Are so unhappy you have to argue with people you don’t know?Go live life then. or go to a church and argue face to face. Oh, that would take balls and an argument.
You are above us pathetic churchbots. it is so clear. Aren’t you too busy for us?
sapper
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:42amHere is the actual text from Jefferson’s letter. His assurance was that the government would be prohibited from interfering in religion. Not the other way around. Please note also that at the end he states that he reciprocates their prayers for blessing from the father and creator of man. This was an official letter from him as President which contradicts the modern separation argument pretty clearly.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Report Post »Jan. 1. 1802.
markgl
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:39amOffensive, there is nothing offensive about a christian song.
Report Post »Bill Wallace
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:37amWonderful.
Perhaps the school needs to get educated on what the Separation of Church and State means instead of rambling at the mouth when they clearly have no clue.
No wonder schools can’t seem to teach students. The dumb teaching the ignorant. Wonderful.
Report Post »capitalismrocks
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:33am@MissCherryJones – what Jefferson was saying was to protect the Church from Government influence and control as it happened in England during the Reformation period and where it became against the law to be Catholic and you had to pledge yourself to the Church of England or be found to be a heretic.
People MUST keep up the pressure and push back very HARD against the whole myth of Separation of Church and State. MOST IMPORTANTLY – teach your children, give them a copy of the 1st Amendment section on Religion, show that that the govt must give religion equal treatment and the single MOST VITAL STATEMENT – “Gov’t cannot prohibit the free practice of religion” So while there can’t be a mandate for prayer in school, which is fine, no school, no govt building, no public space can ban anyone from practicing their religion. This means that while there isn’t prayer in school, if someone wants to have a minute of silence to pray, or wants to give personal thanks before eating their school lunch (why you’d be thankful for that attrocious food, I don’t know, but…) or if you want to run an after school religion group where you bring your own materials and such, you want a manger or Christmas tree in a front of a town square… these are all protected by the Constitution and no one can ban or prohibit them, if someone wants to put up a Jewish Star next to it, then that is equal treatment, but NO ONE can prohibit religion, its in our Constitution…. teach your children well, give them the knowledge to be able to fight back against school officials and win, we need to stop allowing those who hate religion from dictating what ALL should do. Of course, this is a double-edged sword. While we need to have our religious freedoms, we can‘t do the same to those who don’t believe in religion. If they don’t want it in their lives, we don’t push it on them, they have to learn to stop being babies and learn that if they don‘t like something doesn’t mean that it should be banned by all.
That’s the difference between liberals and conservatives:
If a Conservative doesn’t like something, then they don’t do it themselves.
Report Post »If a Liberals doesn’t like something, they want it banned and removed by all.
Mikee T
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:32amWell it’s refreshing to see that Christians (especially when they have the law on their side….and, unfortunately, have to educate and correct, over and over, agnostics and humanists about what the first amendment really means) are finally fighting back and sticking to it…………We will prevail….
Report Post »IAMMADDOG
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:25amThe blaze should add a tool that will not post if you accidentally hit the post button without typing in a comment.
Report Post »harumph
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:38amWhat if I wanted to say “Add your comments.”?
Report Post »IAMMADDOG
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:24amSeparation of church and state has nothing to do with protecting anyone from hearing religious speak. Rather it prevents the government from establishing a church, and forcing its citizens to be a part of it. Such as Sharia Law. THAT would violate the (law?) of Separation of Church and State. But as we all know liberals will use ANY means of getting their own way.
Report Post »rightwingheroes
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:16amIt’s OK for Christians to get bashed and Muslims to call for their death on a daily basis but if we say one word about a minority then we are automatically racist and bigoted. Fair?
Report Post »mzee26
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:41pmSeems like Muslims get to practice their religion wherever and whenever they want to and expect us to make allowances for them but when it comes to Christianity, it’s offensive. WTF is wrong with that picture?
Report Post »jharper
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:15amCongress published the first Bible in America. It was required in every school. Now look at us.
Report Post »mrlogan3
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:14amI don’t think it should be as big of a deal as it is, but the school is trying to avoid it turning into a bigger issue afterward.
Report Post »Apple Bite
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:14amTimes like this, you wish a certain element in California would fall in the cracks of the earth for supporting Babylonian acts (full support of homosexuality and pro abortion v Love for God and Support for mankind over all). This country was built on the word of God, for the good of the country. A country that doesn’t pay homage to a higher being does not exist. Without that belief in a higher power, no country is capable of standing alone. If certain Californians refuse to acknowledge this fact, let them leave for Iran. Let‘s see them follow Iran’s doctrine for living in their country.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:20amI don’t believe that fault line running through California is a coincidence.
Report Post »ProgressiveLiberalMarine
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:31amWhoa, first Pro-Choice does not mean Pro-Abortion, it means Pro-Choice. Also, it is completely possible for a non-religious country to exist, it doesn’t have to believe in a “Higher Power.”
Report Post »Baikonur
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:36am@’ This country was built on the word of God, for the good of the country. A country that doesn’t pay homage to a higher being does not exist. Without that belief in a higher power, no country is capable of standing alone. If certain Californians refuse to acknowledge this fact, let them leave for Iran.’
Theocrat, I suggest you and your Dark Ages ilk leave for Iran instead. Iranian theocracy has much more in common with your world view than any state in the US.
Report Post »ProgressiveLiberalMarine
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:45amWhile the founding fathers may have been christian (Evidence shows they were diests), that doesn’t mean that it still has to be a christian based society. If something doesn’t evolve, it stagnates, and if something stagnates for long enough, it dies.
Report Post »Rapunzel
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 2:30pm@ProgressiveMarine – You have been misinformed. Pro-choice is a typical liberal euphemism. It is all about abortion, and being in favor of allowing women to murder their unborn babies to avoid inconvenience. Here is Wikipedia’s definition of pro-choice: he abortion-rights movement, often portrayed as the “pro-choice” movement, is a political movement encompassing the ethical view that a woman should have the legal right to terminate a pregnancy.
Report Post »ProgressiveLiberalMarine
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 2:57pmWow, I usually get called out when I use Wikipedia, but whatevs. Since I am very much Pro-Choice, that doesn’t mean I want mothers to have their pregnancies aborted, but I respect their right to choose. Why they do it is not our business and it isn’t anyone elses.
Report Post »VRW Conspirator
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 3:40pm@Progressive
of the 58 Signers of the Declaration of Independence…the people pointed to as the Founding Fathers… 55 were card carrying members of some known denomination of Christianity at the time… only 3 were not ACTIVELY attending a Christian church….of those 3 one was an atheist and even that one acknowledged that the country was build on and should hold to the values traditionally attributed to being “christian values.”
read a little more history…the actual history…the actual words of the Founders…before making comments that have been told over and over and over in the MSM that are utterly FALSE!!
and i am pro-choice as well…and a Roman Catholic…but not pro-choice like you think…
i believe a woman can do with her body what she will…so if she wants to have unprotected sex..so be it…but i also believe in personal responsibility and if she has sex and gets pregnant…she has a responsibility to that LIVING HUMAN BEING in side of her not to MURDER.
she can choose..but choices have consequences….something that a Marine should know…liberal or not….something that children are not being taught today by their parents, schools, or employers…
Report Post »ProgressiveLiberalMarine
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 3:49pmThe problem with many of these discussions is that many of them are based on beliefs, not ideas. Beliefs are much more likely to never change, but ideas are maleable. But thats why I like discussions about beliefs, becuase people are so fervent in their belief structure. I personally don’t think abortion is murder, but that is based on when people think that “Life” begins. Choices are made everyday, and while Abortion is a big one, it is still that… a choice. A choice that we have no part in restricting.
Report Post »VRW Conspirator
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 4:12pm@Progressive
hmm..when life begins..lets start there…if we take an evolutionistic approach…life began when a soup of chemicals was struck by lightning and “poof”…an amino acid was formed… some more lightning strikes and “poof”…a protein was formed as the amino acids bonded together… so on and so forth and eventually, that soup produced a strand of DNA that cobbled together into a cellular structure that started to divide and life was started….
(forget all the problems with the need for enzymes to facilitate the reaction, mitochondria to produce energy, and all those mRNA and tRNA that are required to build protein structures in a cell and allow the cell to reproduce. this isn’t Bible talk..this is high school Biology 101…how a cell divided)
but I know what you mean…classical Biology states that a single celled Amoeba is alive! if is a form of Life. therefore any single celled organism that takes in nutrients, expels waste, and reproduces is classified as alive. using this Biology definition of life that every student learns in high school and every HONEST Genetic Biologist should know by heart….a zygote is alive. the moment the sperm cell penetrates the egg cell there is a chemical reaction and the cell meosis and mitosis cycles begin, HENCE Life in the classical Biology sense.
but does that mean that Abortion is murder…murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human being…DNA states that once cell division starts….the human sex cells can produce nothing other than a human being…so Abortion terminates the life of another human being…thus murder..the only thing that makes Abortion not criminal murder is the decision of 9 men with a political agenda…
Report Post »ProgressiveLiberalMarine
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 4:15pmLook, I understand what you are saying, and I wouldn‘t choose to have an abortion but my argument is that it’s not our right to make the choice for another person.
Report Post »Libertyluvnmomma
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 5:11pmLiberalmarine- the argument about abortion not being right for you-but- others should have the choice – is an elitist argument. I conveys superiority. Not for me but for thee…..Minorities,the poor it’s for people without a choice. Am I right?
Report Post »ProgressiveLiberalMarine
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 6:28pmI’m going to go generic here, if someone said hey I am going to put mayo on my ham sandwich, do you want some? Is it elitist to say no, but if you want mayo it’s none of my business. Letting others have a right to a choice I don‘t necessarily agree with doesn’t make me elitist. To answer your other question, I come here because I like to read as much as I can from both sides and comment on the stuff I read.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:12amIf you like how this turned out, feel free to donate to The Alliance Defense Fund. These people do great work and survive on the charity of those who believe what they stand for!
Report Post »They are the Anti-ACLU!
exdem
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:12amWe must dismantle Christianity in our schools! Its for the Caliphate!
Report Post »My question is, are these anti Christian teachers acting on their own or is it Teacher Union orders??
Libertyluvnmomma
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:22amIt has already been done.
Report Post »My Hero-Allen West-click my name
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:08amThey are OK with promoting anything and everything except when it comes to JESUS. Jesus said“Be not dismayed because the persecute you and hate you for they too persecute and hate me”. It simply is a spiritual thing with the evil darkness in people who hate and despise the very name of Jesus. Call evil for want it is. The devil hides in the so called “human nature” as there is no such thing as human nature but we are all influenced in everything we do and say by our father so the question is who is your father, GOD or the devil? No man lives to himself.
Report Post »fancydancy
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:07amAnd at the name of Jesus, every knee will bow when He returns. Today we bow before those who are intolerant of our faith while demanding that we be tolerant of every vice they wish to push on us.
Report Post »and to the republic
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:05amah yeah, another example of the Silent Majority not gonna take it any more……..Good for them and God Bless them all…..
Report Post »Ellbee
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:04amIn CA? Some yahoo will sue to reverse and they’ll cave and change it back.
Report Post »spirited
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 8:14pmDitto!
>California? ;8^>
Report Post »wlcox6801
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:04amLet Freedom Ring! That is great news.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:02amYes… morals, values, truth and love is very offensive
Report Post »MissCherryJones
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:01amLast I checked, “separation of church and state” isn’t in the Constitution. It was an idea by Mr. Jefferson. Can some one tell me why it continues to be OK to bash and ban Christianity under the guise of separation of church and state, but nobody touches Islam, Wicca, Atheism etc?
Report Post »KTSontag
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:11amActually, what Mr. Jefferson said in one of his letters is that there needs to be a “wall between the church and the state”. I don’t think that he ever meant it to mean what it has come to mean today. I think what he meant is that we need to make sure that the federal government never becomes a theocracy and the courts cannot rule by religious laws. Laws must be followed, even if they do not necessarily comply with the laws of your religion, such as sharia law.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:15amYou are correct. The trick they use is to only quote the first half of the actual 1st Amendment addressing religion “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…“ while conveniently excluding the second part of the clause which states ”. or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”.
The 1st amendment wasn’t to protect government from religion, it was to protect religion from government.
Report Post »nomorpc4me
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:17amMISSCHERRYJONES,
You are absolutely correct. Jefferson’s original intent was to keep government intrusion out of religious institutions, not the other way around. But leave it to progresssives and like everything else, they turn it upside down.
Report Post »Bloody Sam
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:19am“Can some one tell me why it continues to be OK to bash and ban Christianity under the guise of separation of church and state, but nobody touches Islam, Wicca, Atheism etc?”
Dunno about Wiccans and Atheists but as for Islam…it’s because cowards fear reprisals and because CAIR is the first to respond with lawsuits and wailing with gnashing of teeth and threats.
Report Post »Trance
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:19amApparently it’s not ok, since he was able to perform his song, and get the school’s rule changed…
I think a lot of it the liberal mindset that Christianity is bad, and needs to be defeated. So they use the “separation of church and state” as an excuse to make rules against it. Even in examples like this case where it is a private citizen rather than a government that is choosing to perform a Christian song. My guess is that there is a general backlash in our previous governmental oversteps in promoting Christianity in our goverment… Such as the “under God” in our pledge of alliegence, and “In God we Trust” on our money.
Although I would be fine with a Separation of Church and State, our constitutional prohibition on enacting a state religion would work just as well if the the courts would enforce it. There will come a time when our government will stop promoting religion because it is unconstitutional (no matter which religion it is), and our country will be better for it.
Report Post »Obama Bin Lying
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:19amI guess when they said the freedom of religion….That didn’t mean Christians.
Report Post »Libertyluvnmomma
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:20amGoogle or search(!) Charlotte Iserbyt
Report Post »or u tube teaching our kids fascism.
Republicans and Democrats are the same. If we don’t pull our kids out of public school or worse charter schools America will never recover.
Charter schools are “order out of chaos”. In order to rebuild progressives/communists/socialists must tear down the old.
Read about B.F. Skinner we are bypassing our kids brains and “training” them (Pavlov)
Beck is right but not all the way. Beck has been so right about Woodrow Wilson- his framework is in place right now.
We don’t attend the “State church” why would liberty lovers put their children in State Schools?
Stop doubting yourselves parents your kids future depends on it.
I don‘t understand why parents aren’t waking up. Even my christian family member roll their eyes.
I’m to the point where I think Christianity has been co-opted.
I love children and this so so preventable.
utube GovSkul the answer to 1984 is 1776
GODSAMERICA
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:20amYou are correct that it is not in the Constitution and it was more than just an idea by Jefferson. What he actually was saying that there needed to be a separation of church and state to prohibit the state from being able to force a specific religion or denomination upon the people. What he meant by this is that there needed to be a clear line to prevent this from happening. He in no way meant for it to be taken the way that it was taken and the people that started this whole separation of church and state knew this and didn’t care. The way he made the statement becomes perfectly clear when it it known that he also stated that God MUST NOT be taken out of the government. And I believe that it was Jefferson(I’m pretty sure it was him) but it may have been one of the other leading founding fathers that stated that if anyone takes God out of the government, they cannot call themselves an American.
Report Post »Mee the People
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:21amit would be ok if it was a rap rape song or muslin chant
Report Post »leftiesaredangerous
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:22amYes Miss, it’s the the politically correct, God-hating left. In a nutshell anyway.
This shouldn’t even be an issue. When a so-called school board not only decides kids can’t say, write, or do anything Jesus or Bible related, let alone call it offensive (which I find offensive) they need to be removed ASAP.
Report Post »That will slow down this anti-Christ campaign at least some in this country.
Brad Wesselmann
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:22amI think anything related to religion and government must be the sole jurisdiction of the individual states…nothing regarding religion should ever be discussed by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:31amTake that you godless atheist
Report Post »Tony Cat
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:31amWonderful points Miss Jones! I am SO sick & tired of morons who talk about seperation of church & state. Go to Google, and READ the Constitution, and Then do a search on “Thomas Jefferson letter to Danbury priests.” Try learning some history!
They’re needs to be PUNITIVE damages! Somebody needs to be sued and/or LOSE their JOB!! Then and only then will these idiot liberals stop trying to silence Christianity and Freedom of Religious expression!
Seriously, why is it only Christians that catch flack with this type of BS. Have fun trying to keep a Muslim or Hindu from performing some cultural religious song, or firing a Muslim teacher for praying in school. But if a Christian teacher prays over their lunch the ACLU is calling for their head!!
Enough is enough! WE need to SPEAK UP and bring this BS to a halt NOW!!!
We were Founded on Biblical Principles. The Supreme Court has refernces to the 10 Commandments all throughout the building, including a statue of Moses holding the 2 tablets on the top center exterior! When the President is sworn in he puts in hand on the… “what”? A dictionary? No. Rules for Radicals? No.., THE BIBLE!
So all you secular agnostics & atheists – GET OVER IT!!! You have the right to believe whatever you want. But short of Congress passing a law establishing a national religion, prayer in school & the 10 commandments in a post office does Not violate the 1st amendment. So stop Infringing on OUR right to religious free expression!!
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:32am@MissCherryJones
I agree with you completly! Seperation of Church and State is NOT in the constituiton!! When they trash Chritianity the Christain turns the other cheek. Bash Islam and your head gets cut off!!
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:38amHey libertyluvmomma,
Report Post »Parents aren‘t waking up because they’re too busy working to pay the bill or wrapped up in their lives and Fed. ran schools are the cheapest daycare in the country. Alot of parents today shouldn’t be parents as they have no idea of how to raise a respectful,moral,or intelligent child.
banjarmon
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:41amThis win is one for the Christians…Lets keep it going all the way to Washington.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:46amLiberals kill unborn babies, they steal from others those things they can’t afford under the guise of social justice, they are liars who falsely accuse anyone who stands in the way of their agenda, they applaud criminals who break into our country, they sympathize with terrorists who are trying to destroy America, they are vulgar, they celebrate perversity and they hate God. We’ve listened to these punks for the past 40 years and where has it gotten us? A morally bankrupt society whose government is ruled by self-serving bureaucrats and whose economy is raped by greedy corporations. The name of Jesus offends you people? Shut up and sit down, I couldn’t care less!
Report Post »thegrassroots
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:49amGreat Job, parents, holding the school district’s feet to the fire. This issue should be challenged everytime it comes up.
Report Post »Beckofile
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:51amThe seperation was to keep government out of religion and the chuches not the religious out of government.
Report Post »Beckofile
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:01pmTHis has nothing to do with religion. This is the problem with a government monopoly. Can anyone say get the government out of education and return the decisions back to the people.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:02pmKTSontag
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:11am
Actually, what Mr. Jefferson said in one of his letters is that there needs to be a “wall between the church and the state”. I don’t think that he ever meant it to mean what it has come to mean today. I think what he meant is that we need to make sure that the federal government never becomes a theocracy and the courts cannot rule by religious laws. Laws must be followed, even if they do not necessarily comply with the laws of your religion, such as sharia law.
—–
In 1899, the Supreme Court (Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States) concluded that America is a “Christian Nation” and backed its decision with 87 precedents, quotes from the Founding Fathers and excerpts from Congressional Acts. In 1947, however, when the Supreme Court decided that there is a “wall of separation” between Church and State, it took one comment from Thomas Jefferson completely out of context, and did not cite a single precedent.
Every one of the thirteen original colonies had a state-supported Christian religion (e.g., Catholicism, Methodism, Anglicanism, Congregationalism, etc.) and the intent of the First Amendment was to prevent one denomination of Christianity being shown preference over another at the federal level. Simply put, our founding fathers didn’t want a Church of America, akin to the Church of England. Furthermore, if you look in dictionaries that were used in the 18th Century, the word “religion” (as in “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of ‘religion’”) meant “the doctrine of the gospel.” If America’s founders, who started public schools for the purpose of educating children about the Bible, had thought for one second that the First Amendment would be used by future generations to ban Christian teachings from public schools, they would never have ratified it.
You need to go read some books that were written in the late 1700s and early 1800s by our founders, then study the Congressional Records for 06/07/1789 through 09/25/1789. Once you’ve done that, you’ll have a grasp on exactly what our founders intended when they wrote the First Amendment.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:07pmIt is obvious that Mr. Jefferson did not intend what people today like to spin and twist it into. For heavens sake just look at many of the laws that existed back then and how they were rooted in judeo-christian thought. Mr. Thomas Jefferson attended a church service in the CAPITAL just two days after writing his famous “wall of separation between church and state” metaphor in a letter.
The appendices reproduce various pronouncements by Jefferson on the subject of church-state relations, including his 1779 Proclamation (as Governor of Virginia) for a day of Thanksgiving and Prayer
These people forget Jefferson’s famous letter was written more than a decade after the First Amendment and it closes with then PRESIDENT Jefferson stating “I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessings of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you and your religious association, assurances of my high respect and esteem.”
Report Post »VRW Conspirator
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:07pmthere is no reason otherwise than it fits into the secular humanist politcan plan to turn us into an society where religion is in the closet…like in Communist China or USSR…where practiciing your faith in the open can get you jailed or beaten….
as for why the secular humanists only seem to care about Christianity…that is because Christianity is the only outwardly Capitalistic religion….Judaism should be as well since we follow the same teachings of the Old Testament…but the Jewish people in America tend to be more in line with the socialistic mentality than do the Christians…
And you are right….there is no seperation of church and state in the Constitution…the 1st Amendment Establishment Clause was meant to PREVENT the formation of a National Religion, like Anglicanism in England or Catholism in Spain and France. It was NEVER meant to stop religious people from influency or participating in the government through their faith…
Report Post »In fact if you research the words of the Founders over the 50 years that followed the signing of the Constitution…nearly to a man, they all state that society and America CAN NOT survive WITHOUT the morality of a people firmly embedded in their Christian faith….
TexasCommonSense
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:13pmThe first amendment covers this very clearly.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
“or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech”
The school is a government entity and is clearly abridging his free speech. They can allow the boy his rights without endorsing religion.
This should be challenged every time it is tried, up to and including the Supreme Court.
The Bill of Rights is non-negotiable.
Report Post »Notfatbigboned
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 12:57pmJefferson’s letter….
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.
(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Report Post »Jan.1.1802.
ltb
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 1:08pmHave you ever noticed how Liberals squeal like stuck pigs when they first realize their deceit is being exposed (e.g., Global Warming fraud, separation of Church and State myth, Evolution scam, false claims of racism against legal immigration proponents), but then they just kind of go away when they realize no one is buying their lies anymore? Two years ago, so-called Liberals lurked around discussion forums just waiting to pounce on anyone who mentioned that global warming is a ploy by communists to destroy capitalism, but today you don’t see so many of these trolls, because people learned the truth. As more people become informed about the First Amendment and the paramount role that faith played in the lives of our founding fathers, these same trolls have stopped trying to spread lies about the intent of the First Amendment. No matter how tiring it becomes, never, ever miss an opportunity to correct the lie of a ” Liberal,” because the M.O. of these people is to continuously repeat lies in the hopes that they will go unchallenged. Truly, the best antidote for Liberalism/Progressivism/Communism/Socialism is a healthy dose of facts and had there been more people exposing the lies of Obama in 2008, he would never have made it past Iowa.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 1:22pm“I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.”
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Thank you for posting Jefferson’s letter Notfatbigboned. Only a complete idiot, or someone with an agenda would not understand that that Jefferson was saying the First Amendment was meant to prevent the establishment of a national church with the President being the head of that church. Also, his use of the word “sect,” plainly shows that “religion” and “Christian denomination” were synonymous to our founding fathers.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 1:37pm@ LTB…………..I couldn’t agree more that is why I go after even the trolls. Lies cannot be tolerated no matter where they come form. Tell a lie often enough and soon it will become the truth………..
All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true within itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.
—Adolf Hitler , Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X[1]
Report Post »Nobamazone
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 1:48pmThree cheers for Tony Cat! I totally agree, I am SO SICK of their whining, get over it! america WAS founded on biblical principles, period. Like it or not, that is a fact. Thankfully for them, we allow them the freedom to NOT believe a darn thing, go right ahead, we will even allow them to leave and move to a place that was NOT founded on Christianity… so ethier accept it or move on!
Report Post »MontanaRob
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 3:14pmMissCherryJones wrote:
“Can some one tell me why it continues to be OK to bash and ban Christianity under the guise of separation of church and state, but nobody touches Islam, Wicca, Atheism etc?”
It is an all out assault on Christendom (Judeo-Christian ethic, Western Civilization). My suggested reading to all who post here is:
The World Turned Upside Down: The Global Battle Over God, Truth, and Power by Melanie Philllips
The Death of the Grown-up: How America’s Arrested Development Is Bringing Down Western Civilization by Diana West( I think this fits nearly all prfressives to a tee)
The Shadow Party by David Horowitz and Richard Poe
Grave Influence: 21 Radicals and Their Worldviews that Rule America from the Grave by Brannon Howse
and next up on my reading list
Dupes: How America’s Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century by Paul Kengor
These books will answer so many questions for so many. Much of it is available elsewhere as well as things we have all heard from Glenn and Sean Hannity and Rushbo, but these distill it down so that you get a tremendous ammount of info in just a few sources.
Report Post »VRW Conspirator
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 3:20pm@Trace
unfortunately, your logic is off Trace… putting “In God We Trust” on our currency or putting “under God” in the pledge has nothing to do with promoting Christianity. God is ambiguous…it does not say…the Christian God..or Jesus Christ….
Report Post »the God of Abraham is the God mentioned…who is the God of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims of the world…which means about half the worlds population subscribe to this God….
if it said Jesus Christ, that would still be okay…since Christianity is a not a religion it is a philosophy.
Baptist is a religion…Evangelical, Lutheran, Catholic, Mormon are religions…Christianity is an ideology, a philosophy, a way of life…
the 1st Amendment Establishment Clause forbids Congress from enacting a law saying ” the United States is hereby….” this certain denomination …that is all it does…it does not forbid prayer in school or at government functions …it does not forbid the posting of the Ten Commandments in a public space or public building….it does not stop the Bible from being used as a teaching document in schools..
it ONLY forbids Congress from taking religious action..not the people, the States, or a private or public organization….
it is called ORIGINAL INTENT…learn it..even if the Supreme Court has forgotten their obligation to uphold it….
godlovinmom
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 3:35pmwhat I want to know is..why do they find Jesus so offensive? I find atheism, islam, very offensive..but you never hear the government or otherwise say how offensive these “religions” are…just christianity…its like they have a rulebook that whenever something christian comes out..attack it!
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 4:14pm@ GODLUVINMOM…………The answer to your question lies behind the forces influencing the opposition. Jesus Christ is the son of God and Satan has always sought to oppose him and his people. Other religions do not get attacked in the same manner on a whole because a house divided against itself cannot stand. Of course Christians fight back against these forces whether they see them as dark or not so you certainly have criticism out there. And certain individuals may also be critical. But taken on a whole they enjoy a benefit of the doubt that Christians on a whole do not in the influential cultural centers of society and politics..
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush[b] your head,
and you will strike his heel.” ——— Genesis 3
Revelation 12:17
Report Post »Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
peter469
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 4:55pmA decision by the Supreme Court in 1947 (I think) tied the 1st Amendment together with the 14th Amendments “Equal Protection” clause to say that the Federal prohibition binds the States as well. I don’t agree with their decision but I believe that is the precedent being used. It needs to be expertly challenged at the Supreme Court level again or we need to pass an Amendment to the Constitution redefining the terms of the 14th Amendment and redefine the equal protection clause more clearly. In addition we need to repeal the 17th Amendment giving the States the right to appoint their Senators as the Founders intended.
Report Post »Libertyluvnmomma
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 5:07pmSMITHCLAR3NC3
Report Post »I am referring to even the Conservatives here, not your average run of the mill parents. Those people are zombies.
I am talking about Christian Tea Party Patriots who are “all up against the system” . And yet, they still excuse their children’s schooling.
Those are the ones I find frustrating. Kevin Jennings wasn’t enough.
Peraslax
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 7:01pmJefferson wrote that letter to reassure a group of babtist ministers that there is be a wall between church and state that would forbid government from silencing them in the political arena because the ministers were worried that the government would eventually stop their participation in government activities because of the amendment. It’s a terrible irony that the letter Jefferson wrote to guarentee those ministers that the government would not be able to silence religious participation in government has been turned around to mean exactly the opposite. And it’s just amazing to me that this letter is even considered when Jefferson wasnt even in the country when the Bill of Rights was written and had nothing to do with them. But his one letter is the soul authority on why we can no longer have prayer in school or a Christmas tree on public property.
Report Post »wildbill_b
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 7:08pmYou are correct LTB.
The best way to establish intent is to READ the words of the people who said it.
IN England There was 2 sets of law. Common /statute Law and Ecclesiastical Law or the LAW of the of the Church. Google Books has “Ecclesiastical law, Volume 1 By Richard Burn 1763″
For any perceived transgression You may be brought before the court of the Church, thus the Church to varying degrees had great power over the people. Jefferson’s comments related the denying the Church from exercising any power within the government. The first Amendment on the other hand simple denies the government from Establishing (creating) or Prohibiting (Stopping YOU from creating any religion YOU want to create however ridiculous it might seem to me so long as you harm no one) any religion. The “history and fact” taught today is niether reflective of history nor factual in any way.
Report Post »There is in this country FEDERAL Statute creating a day of prayer. Nearly every year Congress passes legislation establishing “God” and the Bible the Basis of this country. But YOU are supposed to forget.
The National Day of Prayer (36 U.S.C. § 119) is an annual day of observance held on the first Thursday of May, designated by the United States Congress, when people are asked “to turn to God in prayer and meditation”. The law formalizing its annual observance was enacted in 1952.
JustJP
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 7:36pmwell said Miss
Report Post »silentwatcher
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 8:21pmCan you imagine when Jesus comes back to tend his flock,,,the ‘politically correct’ censures tell Jesus that He cannot do so because they find it offensive?
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:15pmHey Watch…I guess I already knew the answer to my question…stay in the light my brother!
Report Post »BloodSweatandTears
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 11:41pmJefferson intention was to protect religion from the state, not the state from religion. How this has been turned upside down is anyone’s guess.
Report Post »Jackers
Posted on March 24, 2011 at 6:35amIt’s the never-ending war against Christianity… We’re supposed to honor one God – the government – but the tables are slowly starting to turn…
PC is going out while common sense is finally coming back. It’s about time that we, as Christians, start standing up to this ongoing persecution of the free expression of our religious beliefs!
Report Post »ltb
Posted on March 24, 2011 at 10:29amgodlovinmom
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 3:35pm
what I want to know is..why do they find Jesus so offensive? I find atheism, islam, very offensive..but you never hear the government or otherwise say how offensive these “religions” are…just christianity…its like they have a rulebook that whenever something christian comes out..attack it!
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The world hates Christians because of Jesus. Jesus came into the world and showed the world that people are evil and in need of a savior. Most people don’t like being told that they’re evil, because most people don’t want to recognize that every human being is rotten at our core. Other religions, like Islam, don’t bother the world, because they are lies. For instance, Islam tells people that they are basically good and that they don’t need a savior, rather they just need to do more good than evil; unfortunately, Islam doesn’t tell people how they know if they’ve done enough good to avoid Hell (i.e., unless they kill infidels, which is a free ticket out of Hell). Anyone who has survived high school knows that people are not basically good and the older you get, the more you realize that people rarely change from how they were in high school.
…..
“But when the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles was near, Jesus’ brothers said to him, ‘You ought to leave here and go to Judea, so that your disciples may see the miracles you do. No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.’ For even his own brothers did not believe in him. Therefore Jesus told them, ‘The right time for me has not yet come; for you any time is right. The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil. You go to the Feast. I am not yet going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come.’” (Jn 7:2-8)
..
“’If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you: “No servant is greater than his master.” If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: “They hated me without reason.”’” (Jn 15:18)
..
“Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.” (1 Jn 3:13-14)
Report Post »ltb
Posted on March 24, 2011 at 10:50amLibertyluvnmomma
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 5:07pm
SMITHCLAR3NC3
I am referring to even the Conservatives here, not your average run of the mill parents. Those people are zombies.
I am talking about Christian Tea Party Patriots who are “all up against the system” . And yet, they still excuse their children’s schooling.
Those are the ones I find frustrating. Kevin Jennings wasn’t enough.
—–
I couldn’t agree with you more. It is unbelievably frustrating that Christians allow their children to be sent to State run schools where they are taught lies about American history and lies about evolution. We have too many lukewarm Christians (I was one once too), who need to realize that we are in a war for the soul of this country. Unfortunately, most Christians send their children to the enemy’s camp for training five days a week without thinking about the consequences. I don’t have children, but if I did, they would not be in a State school and if I couldn’t afford a private Christian school, I would homeschool them. One thing that Christian homeschoolers need to do is to contact their churches to ask if they can meet in Sunday school classrooms, which often sit empty during the week. That way, homeschooling parents could spread the load (e.g., one parent teach history, one teach math, etc.) and homeschooled children would be able to socialize. Keep up the good fight!
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on March 24, 2011 at 3:11pmLTB…and that is exactly why I homeschool…I do not want my child to get a distorted view of history…I want my child to know the truth about God…I like your idea of sharing the responsibilities of homeschooling in your church…my problem is finding a church thats bibically sound..very hard to find one these days..I wish that schools would go back to their local communities educating our children…instead of our progressive government..alot of people in my family give me a bad time about homeschooling due to the fact of socializing…well..if socializing means my daughter has a facebook and a cell phone and wears makeup all at 13..(like most of her friends) they can have it..I’m more concerned about my daughters soul!
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