Cash for Clunkers 2? This Time for ‘Green’ Cars
- Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:04am by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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“Ready for another cash for clunkers program?” asks Kerry Picket in the Washington Times. According to her, the $3 billion free-money giveaway of 2009 predicated on consumers junking their old cars is taking on a new form — this time for “green” vehicles. And it has General Motors giddy.
Picket says the administration is considering changing the already-existent $7,500 tax credit for green cars like the all-electric, and wildly unpopular, Chevy Volt. Instead, and according to a document obtained by Edmunds.com, the credit would become “a rebate that will be available to all consumers immediately at the point of sale.”
Sound familiar? Joe Biden thinks so.
The Detroit News reported last month that the new program has Biden experiencing some Cash-for-Clunkers deja vu:
Last month, the White House endorsed making the $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles available at the time of purchase. “You won’t have to wait,” Vice President Joe Biden said at an a Indiana battery assembly plant, adding it would be like the cash-for-clunkers program.
The Department of Energy sees the parallels too. David Sandalow, assistant secretary for policy and international affairs, explained to Bloomberg News in February:
Consumers who have used hybrid- and electric-vehicle credits have received the benefits when they filed their tax returns. The administration wants to make the cars more affordable at the point of sale, in the same way the 2009 “Cash for Clunkers” program worked, Sandalow said.
One of those leading the charge is Michigan Democratic Senator Debbie Stbenow, whose home state would stand to benefit from propped up demand:
But lest we forget how unsuccessful Cash for Clunkers was, Picket explains via Americans for Tax Reform:
The program began on July 24th with a budget of $1 billion and by July 30th they were out of money. Giving people “free” money to buy cars is definitely popular. Congress then allocated another $2 billion that lasted almost until the end of August. That’s right, $3 billion in under a month. The program didn’t help the economy or auto industry. Despite a bump in the 3rd quarter to GDP and auto sales, consumer spending dropped 0.5% in September and the vehicle output bump was artificial and unsustainable, meaning it will drop off considerably in the next quarter as the market stabilizes to its real level. As Nick Gillespie and Veronique de Rugy pointed out today over at Reason, even the reported GDP bump is misleading, because is includes government spending. So if government spending increases it will increase the GDP, but that doesn’t mean any more was produced.
Naturally, General Motors is excited about the idea. “We are pleased to see Sen. Stabenow’s legislation that integrates all of the components necessary for successful acceleration of electric vehicles in the marketplace,” GM spokesman Greg Martin told the Detroit News. “We look forward to working with Congress on legislation that leads to widespread adoption of electric vehicles.”
But here’s the thing: if you need “legislation” in order to ensure “widespread adoption of electric vehicles” you probably need a) a different product that people actually want, and b) a new business plan.
Unless you’re General Motors.
Read Picket’s entire article.
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Comments (179)
svedka
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:03amI have heard interviews with electric company distribution big wigs saying the capacity for these cars in concentrated areas is simply not there, they do not know how they will deliiver the additional power, well one thing is for certain we might need an “I need a ride from wherever my car stopped working” APP
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:02amANOTHER BRILLIANT idea from our commander in thief! Great.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:24amYou liberals think EVERYTHING Obama does is brilliant! Wake up, you socialist progressive! ;-)
Report Post »Rickfromillinois
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:01amThere are some problems with electric cars that the government never seems to mention. As the number of people who own electric cars increases this is going to increase the demand on the electric grid. Considering how difficult it is to build a new power plant regardless of whether it is coal, natural gas, or nuclear, this is going to be a major problem. The power has to come from somewhere, there is no free ride.
Report Post »What happens when the batteries need to be replaced? The cost of the batteries may be more then what the car is worth after it has been driven for that length of time. Will this make the electric car more or less a “throw away” vehicle? Will this mean that after the batteries are dead you just get a new car? And what is done with the batteries and just how much will that cost?
The relatively short traveling distance for a electric car like the volt would require that people have a second car. Yes, as electric cars become more popular there may be an increase in places where you can get the car recharged, but how much will it cost to do so and maybe even more importantly, how long will it take? Who would want to take it on a long trip if every couple of hours you had to find a place to recharge your batteries and wait there for hours while it recharged. It would also almost make it necessary that hotels, restaurants, and work places provide a recharging station for people. I doubt if they will do it for free. The obvious answer is that you would have to have 2 cars. One to go straight to work and back, and one for everything else. Also as pointed out by another post, what happens when you hit a winter storm, traffic is at a craw, a 1/2 drive turns into a 2 hour drive, and your car charge runs out?
The main thing though is that THE GOVERNMENT IS BROKE! We cannot afford to keep spending money like this, and the government has no business doing it. If or when the electric car becomes attractive enough to the market then people will buy them.
leonardofmainstreet
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:52amBy investing in the future, this Congressional Brute means to have someone hold a gun to someone elses head, in order to “extract funding” for a another person…who also happens to vote for congressional brutes, like the one promoting Clunkers II.Also,I thought “charging america forward” meant getting people to go shopping with a case of the meynardKeynes, credit card crazy. Not plugging in car to majically clean outlets in walls.
Report Post »Barry Soetoro
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:52amNo MORE cash for clunckers!
Electric cars are really COAL powered cars. Dirty COAL powered cars.
Republicans, do let this more forward. We cannot afford it.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:10amHa! See! Y’all are saying I am a greenie because we own a Prius! But we are even dirtier than you! Take that!
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:48amLooks like my next ride will be the all-electric Ford Focus.
I may as well take advantage of one of these programs that I’ve been paying for, for the past 24 years.
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:03amWhy would you ever do that, unless you don’t drive much? Good luck POWERING up…
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:37amSo, Obama wants billions to convert our M1A2s to Volt technology.
Report Post »AzCowboy
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 10:44amHow much for my Bushmaster c15m4 with night vision ??
Report Post »jH…
crossdraw
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:32amAs that“thing that calls itself president” stated;“ Under my energy policy your electric rates will ”necessarily” skyrocket.” That, in and of itself, is why liberal idiots can’t see the forest for the trees. Their heads are full of flies and if the flies aren’t kept flying they are helpless. Buy a Volt? Not on my best day. My head is full of logic and common sense. Two words that scare the hell out of a liberal fly filled head. Shut your damned government down. It will be a better world. VOLT MY A**
Report Post »aBritishTenther
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:32amI need a better mpg vehicle because my new commute in Obama’s economy is 185 miles round trip, but it has to be cheap NOT $45k, now if I buy a new green car in 4 years it will have 180000 miles on it and will be valued (if still running) at $5k………….what a saving in gas money……thats right gubmint suckling slackers I drive 90 miles for WORK to support my family.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:51amWelcome to my world! You have two choices, diesel or hybrid. Both can get around 50MPG. Both will cost around 25-30K new if you shop smart. Of course used ones come substantially down in price. One deciding factor that not too many people mention is that diesel is substantially more expensive than 87 octane.
We bought a ‘08 Prius new and have not been sorry. It is an ugly car and rear visibility sucks and takes a while to get used to, but it is a tight, quality car. It now has 90,000 miles on it, been all over the eastern half of the US, it eats the miles up. Never had a single issue with it and it is still tight and feels new. Resale value? The Prius is a sought after car, I imagine it is pretty decent, but have not checked. We are not going to trade it but have decided to drive it till it drops. It has some dents and dings being heavily used and I frankly cannot be bothered to do the bodywork on it. It is a workhorse, point A to point B car.
My brother in law had a Honda Hybrid that was fairly equivalent to the Prius. Good car by all accounts. We would argue over them, but the truth is they are both great cars.
That VW TDI is one HOT car though…
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:05amAll liberals who talk to each other on CONSERVTIVE sites are wasting their own time.. which they seem to have a LOT of these days… UNLESS this IS their job? hmmm
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:08amYou calling me a liberal? Lol, that is sad…
Report Post »dawg of gawd
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:11amWhat, gas is $4 a gallon? That’s news to me.
Report Post »Mateytwo Barreett
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:22amTime to head on over to your local F O R D dealer!!
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:30amFound On Road Dead…
I have never cared for Ford, but I will tell you what, that new Super Duty with the 6.7L powerstroke diesel is one hell of a truck. I am thinking about one for my business…
Report Post »Ialmostforgot
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:19amI have a clunker. Its an 8 cylinder Jimi with a bad transmission, but the engine runs great. I hooked up a generator to the engine. Now I can tow it behind my Volt and power the electric motors and the back up engine never comes on. Now thats effeciency!
Report Post »aBritishTenther
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:45amNow here is an engineer in need of stimu-loss cash to explore this idea further…….My idea is for everybody to run their cars A/C full on with the windows open to help cool the planet…….
Report Post »dawg of gawd
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:11amYou’re just frustrated the way all regressives are frustrated by change. It scares you. It’s beyond your intellectual scope to deal with vision and progress and evolution. hate to break it to you, but Leave it to Beaver was a TV show. Andy didn’t really live in Mayberry. And Ronald Reagan wasn’t really a cowboy. We’ll get to alternative energy despite all your conservative efforts to the contrary.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:24amWow…Despite the fact that you are an idiot…I agree with you!
I am sure that as soon as this story starts picking up we will get all the lunatic, gut reaction posts…People are just scared of change, of what they do not understand. The fact is some of the first cars were electric. The idea has always been there, the technology was not until now.
Alternative energy is great…As long as it is not being implemented stupidly. Our government is as stupid as it comes! Just let the private sector do their thing, we do not need incentives or nudges. Oil is not going anywhere for the next half century or so. The smart thing to do would be to start drilling here, now. Then implement alternatives everywhere and anywhere we can. The successful ones will take off, the worthless ones will go back to the drawing board.
Report Post »shorthanded12
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:26amThe only ones frustrated are the Left and Socialist extreme left. I make changes in my life on my own terms I dont need some Government agency or Politician ie (Barry) to tell me were going to transform/change America over night rather I like it or not. I smell a revolution comeing to America and the Left has already instigated it. $50,000.00 electric vehicle with a gov $7500 rebate wow, now thats real fiscal responsible @ other folks tax money. DEBT DEBT DEBT IS all The US Government has given the American people. SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT….Bernie Madoff looks like pennys on the dollar compared to what the Feds STEAL FROM us.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:34amHow are conservatives “obstructing” the process? What does politics have to do with private enterprise? ;-)
What I see this idiotic administration doing is trying to force feed us technology that is not ready and cannot even begin to replace what we have now. Drill baby…
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:00amDawg,
What are you failing to understand here? I am all for advancing alternative energy. We have the time. We just cannot shut down what is in place now and what does work.
I want to defund NPR and all the rest. I want to shrink the federal government back to the bare minimum. I want to give states back the power they should have, such as overseeing education. But what does any if that have to do with PRIVATE companies developing alternative energy sources?
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:34amDawg believes it’s the Governments responsibility to fund R&D for alternative energy and not the private sector. He thinks the government should provide for all needs. In other words he is a socialist.
Report Post »dawg of gawd
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 12:12pmBlackhawk1 – Still smarting, eh? And after all these weeks. Here, let me give you a fresh one.
Yes, I think the government should fund R&D into alternative energy. Why? Because I think the entrenched interests of the energy business are too great to evolve such research at the expense of their own monopolistic interests. i also agreed with government funding of the space program, which took us to the moon. Not all government involvement is bad. You should know, after all, they give you three hots and a cot (and lifetime healthcare).
Now, since you so readily and wrongly assigned motives to my thinking, I’ll do the same. You’re a regressive whose only interest is in maintaing the status quo for the benefit of the few at the expense of progress and change that benefits everyone. If it were up to you we‘d still be bloodletting to release the vapors from people’s skulls.
Mmmmm, freshy fresh. That oughta keep you twisted for another few weeks. Semper fi!
Report Post »shorthanded12
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:59amEveryone keeps harping about the over expensive Chevy Volt….Look into Tesla Motors, Boxer Clinton, Al Gore, Obama and many more All big recipients of campaign donations from Teslas CEO. Tesla received $440,000,000.00 low interest loan from the Dept of Energy WHY?????? When there IPO went public they were able to raise almost $200 million so Why get my tax money to fund a wasteful OVER Priced electric car. This company was given special treatment over numerious other companys….do your home work I did. TESLA WAS IN THE RED SINCE ITS INCEPTION IN 2004 WITH ITS $150,000 ELECTRIC ROADSTER.
Report Post »matt708
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:57amWhy aren’t these car companies testing hydrigen cras which are cheaper and has no pollution
Report Post »shorthanded12
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:01amthats to easy and makes more commen sense which the DemoRats/RINOS lack of.
Report Post »NC
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:56amWhatever happened to the free market system?
On hydrogen, I remember a PSA talking about hydrogen cars, it takes energy to separate the hydrogen from the water, making them inefficient, at least this is what the PSA led the viewer to believe.
NC (waiting for Ford to bring their 50+ MPG diesel mini pickup truck to the States that is being built and sold in Europe)
Report Post »matt708
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:56amno more free money if GM can’t make it in the market then let them go under. Hey Biden this isn‘t your money it’s ours. You are suppose to cut spending not increase it, what don’t you understand?
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:07amNotice nothing more is being mentioned about the UAW workers at GM getting a 4K bonus because GM supposedly made a profit last year. Where is our 35 Billion they still owe the taxpayers? Anyone that still buys a GM or Chrysler until they go private again are fools.
Report Post »Teapartycorner.com
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 5:27pmPerfectly said sir!!!
Report Post »RightUnite
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:55amWhat a friggin joke! There is no way I am going to go into debt for the Government. How many people can afford a $40,000.00 car?? Absolutely not! And you couldn’t pay me to buy a car from Government motors.
Report Post »wodiej
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:43amThe gov’t should not be paying people to buy an electric car. If it’s so wonderful, they should sell themselves. Perhaps if the car companies didn’t gouge customers w their inflated price tag and make them nice looking, more people would buy one. If I ever buy one, it sure won’t be from Government Motors. It will be a Honda.
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 10:13amPrices are inflated due to Union pensions! I DO agree that NO Government money should EVER be put inot a private business!!! Defense, Roads/bridges and SPACE EXPLORATION!!!
Report Post »Teapartycorner.com
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 5:26pmI agree 100% if the cant make a product at a price that people will buy then they should go under. I am so tired of americans money being wasted on nothing.
Report Post »APatriotFirst
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:40amI drive a gas hog 95 Chevy P/U truck with a 454 engine, 4×4 and extended cab. It has 155k miles and isn’t even broke in yet.
I could put one of these electric cars in the truck’s bed as a spare.
You drive the elect. car, I will keep my truck. And after the accident, with some illegal alien with NO drivers license, I will still be alive.
Report Post »mom4times
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:49amI’m with you….got an 06 3/4 ton suburban….can’t haul the car trailor without it…..wouldn’t trade it in for all the money we owe to China…..my husband had one of those prius’s too….for work….had to trade to another co-worker, it bothered his back but he did say that no matter how he ran it…..it never died
Report Post »tower7femacamp
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:38amI say we spend 1 trillion to convert coal to oil
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:38amThey must be insane. Only someone with a single digit IQ would buy a Volt or Leaf. Electric ranges are laughable. 99.9% of businesses have no charging stations while you’re at work. Range is less than advertised. Range of the battery, like ALL batteries, goes way down in cold weather. Whatever savings you have in gas costs, you more than make up in much higher monthly electric bills, and even if you’re the biggest Mother Earth greenie moron, at some point you have to figure out you‘re accomplishing NOTHING as they are most likely using a COAL FIRED electric plant on your grid that’s recharging you batteries. All that to buy a piece of junk that will cost between $40-$48K to buy and, since a new battery is prohibitively expensive, have a car that’s worthless on trade-in.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:00amYou have some points but they are exaggerated…Naturally…1) Most people drive 15-30 miles to work. If the battery got 40 miles on a charge that is most of the work commute for the average person. Many people live in a city where an electric vehicle is ideal. 2) While not too many businesses have charging stations that would change if more people bought electric vehicles. This is an argument any time a new technology comes out and always proves moot. 3) yeah, but by how much? Where is the data. Batteries do wear down…But…Battery technology has advanced by leaps and bounds during the last decade. I fly electric RC and I can tell you advances have been HUGE! Bottom line is how far do you drive to work. If it is 15 miles or less then electric is ideal for you. A business traveler? Not so much…4) Cost is an exaggerated argument. It takes pennies to charge the car, it takes half a Benjamin to fill the tank….now, and if you are lucky and have a small tank…I ran into this argument with our Prius, it is even in Beck’s books. The cost of the car outweighs the savings in gas. But…How much are you paying for any car to begin with? Our Prius was 26K, which is an average price for a midgrade car. My Tacoma pickup cost 15K, gets 28MPG and I love the truck. But how many people (buying a new car) are going to drive a base model that cheap? Now, 45K for a Volt? No…Never…5) See my reply to the first post. You know…Hard as it is to believe…Not everyone who will opt for an electric is a “greenie.” Especially with gas prices on the rise and no effort on the part of the government to allow domestic production, many people are just looking for a cheaper alternative.
I live in central Florida near the Villages (of Lady Lake). This place is a retirement mecca that encourages golf carts. The whole town is tailored to golf cart use and they are quite popular. It is a great alternative for “closed” communities and would be a great solution for inner cities where commutes are only a few miles at a time.
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:28amTroll..great..use it in Central Florida. But it gets a tad cooler north of the Georgia state line and no one bothers to factor what COLD does to a battery. So YOU live in a state where you can drive a golf cart to work. Great. Imagine a mother with kids stuck on I 94 in a snow drift wondering if she should waste the precious battery charge on trying to “rock” the car out of the snow, or keep a now ELECTRIC heater on to keep her kids from freezing.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:40amTeddrunk,
Why is this an “all or nothing” argument for you? If this is truly a problem then electric is not an option for you. But I have traveled all the way to NY state, Pittsburgh, Chicago and other places north and have seen as many Prius’ up there as there are down here. It does not seem to be an issue. Will the Volt or Leaf have an issue? Guess we will see, but I somehow doubt it. In fact, I think starting a cold internal combustion motor poses a greater problem. It is also easier to warm the battery than the block. Just sayin’…
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:25amTroll
Unfortunately you fell for the big green lie just like the people that fell for the Solar Panel lie. You will never recover the extra cost of a green vehicle just like you will never recover the cost in savings by using solar. Trade in value according to Kelly Blue Book for a 2010 Prius with 20K miles fully loaded is 20K. The cost when bought new is over 30K. That’s some pretty fast depreciation….No Thanks
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:26amTroll, the REAL point of it is this IS America. If YOU want to buy a toy electric car, do it! But with YOUR OWN MONEY! Why should I have to subsidize it. We ALREADY subsidize the trains & buses that go empty in America to keep the Mother Earth people happy.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:38amBlackhawk 1:
Unfortunately you fell for the big green lie just like the people that fell for the Solar Panel lie. You will never recover the extra cost of a green vehicle just like you will never recover the cost in savings by using solar. Trade in value according to Kelly Blue Book for a 2010 Prius with 20K miles fully loaded is 20K. The cost when bought new is over 30K. That’s some pretty fast depreciation….No Thanks
Report Post »————————————————-
What lie? Are you ever going to recover the cost from ANY vehicle? The cost of our ‘08 Prius in ’09 was $26,000. That compares to most Buicks, chevys, Fords… See what the trade in value for any of those cars is under the same condition. People WANT to buy the Prius, there is usually a waiting list, and we have had several offers from our dealer to buy it back. But that is beside the point as the car is paid in full and we will drive it till it drops then see what the best MPG car on the market is at that time.
trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:41amTeddrunk,
I would not argue with that!!! Never said anything to the contrary. I am also against hybrid parking spaces and would NEVER use one. Meanwhile we have all the A-holes in here talking about parking their Suburbans in these parking spaces just to make some kind of point.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:55amTroll
To each their own. Here in the U.P. there are 2 Prius I see running around town when the weather is nice. Haven’t seen them all winter….One idiot even has a smart car that I haven’t seen. Why buy a car that depreciates at an accelerated rate that you can’t drive but a few months out of the year. That is the difference. It may work in Florida. Just saying the big picture of Obama‘s and the green movement doesn’t apply to most of the country.
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:30am.
Report Post »You just can’t fix stupid……………..
felina g
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:46amThe Federal Reserve is no more “Federal” than Federal Express.
Report Post »GETLIFE
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:17amExactly how I am feeling about the news today. Hope we are wrong.
Report Post »TexasCommonSense
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:33amfelina g, you’re right. The real question is who owns it? Just try and find the answer to that one.
Report Post »robin.kevin
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 10:18amnot even with duck tape!
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:25amWill somebody explain why the hydrogen cell engine (that works extremely well), which Bush “invested” in, is never mentioned by Obama as an alternative to battery operated toy cars? Is it because Bush pushed for it and Obama doesn’t want to copy Bush…again?
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:35amI was JUST wondering that as I typed the post above. I have not heard much about hydrogen in a couple years now.
Report Post »CatholiConservative
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:47amTroll trainer- didn’t you know, when something WORKS & does so well- bammy, by default, cannot support it!
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:51amI read up on it a couple of years back and Honda had one that worked great! One issue is setting up fueling equipment at existing stations. The fuel is steep now because it’s such a rare comodity. Introduce the freee market and competion, the price will drop. If you gave tax incentives to station owners, I’m sure it can be done. After all, when the first Fords rolled off the line, there weren’t any gas stations at all out there. I find it extremely odd the Mr. Green energy has never even uttered the word hydrogen cell. I‘m sure it’s because some of the people financing his campaigns have a vested interest in the failure of hydrogen cell technology.
Report Post »aBritishTenther
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:20ambetter bet, but hydrogen has to be generated first and that takes electicity……….
Report Post »Conkuur
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:08amThis should answer some of your questions Gonzo. http://www.viddler.com/explore/etika/videos/7/
Report Post »robin.kevin
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 10:17amFrom what I know about them the only issue they have with them is they need a large fuel cell to travel any distance. They are working on ways to make a smaller fuel cell but why not just make a larger car to store the cell.
Report Post »Soldier_FORTHERECORD
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:25amWhere do I sign up for my “Obama Cash”?!? This is a perfect way to give away money to people who don’t pay taxes to begin with…. assuming they can raise the $45K to buy a “greener” car in the first place.
Report Post »maumau
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 10:08amhe will just have the financing officers at GM make sure to trust that pimp with 13 yr old girlfriends and baby mamas so that he can reap the benefits of only paying a portion over a long lease, and we know youre good for it because pimping is profitable.
Report Post »ShyLow
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 2:17pmCost 5,ooo dollars and gets 40 mpg…has any one ever driven one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JqfCmYmQmI&feature=related
Report Post »Independent Tess
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:12amDon’t these guys who tout “clean” electricity ever think one step further than the end of their noses? Where does electricity come from you dimwits? COAL!!
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:25amNot that I am on any particular side on this issue, but the argument you present is usually one of the first ones that come up against electric cars. I have to ask, how is it relevant? The reality is that instead of having the coal plant producing electricity AND vehicles burning gas, at least now you ONLY have the coal plant. Would electricity consumption go WAY up if we ALL had electric vehicles? Yeah, it would. But we all do NOT have electric vehicles and I do not think a few million Chevy Volts is going to make that much difference on the grid. Besides, I do not think they will sell that many, the car is too expensive. The flip side is if we all went electric it would force the production of more electricity and they would have to build nuclear and clean coal plants. That would be worth it just to get off the foreign oil teat, as we are obviously screwing ourselves by limiting onshore drilling.
Of course natural gas is a good alternative too. The key is not to jump on the “stupid” bandwagon on either side of this issue. My wife drives a Prius and I cannot tell you how many times i get all the green arguments. The truth is I do not give a damn about green. We like the 50MPG and are quite happy with the car. It is quality construction that at 90,000 miles STILL feels like a new car with no problems ever and no squeaks or rattles. I would buy another one in a heartbeat.
Report Post »tower7femacamp
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:35amWhat ever happened with Cash for Bankers ?
Report Post »americansfightingforcommonsense
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:52amThat’s right I almost forgot about hydrogen cars! What happened to the idea. Sounded very promising just a few years ago. Wait a minute…. That doesn‘t fit Obama’s plan to destroy our economy and redistribute the wealth.
Report Post »Ironmaan
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:52amTroll—
Report Post »It’s relevant because the INTENT is to replace all gas burning vehicles with electric. I agree it will never happen, but the green argument is for cleaner greener vehicles and the fact of the matter is they aren’t. Coal is what ultimately powers them. For an owner of an electric vehicle the to believe they are doing something for the environment is delusional. If the argument is to reduce dependance on foreign oil that’s a different story.
http://guerillatics.com
ISeeDanger.com
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 7:55amMost are missing the BIG issue, and the issue that should make you furious.
A VOLT, is around $44,000. Who is buying a $44k “plug-in” car?
Upper income Americans. The average buyer has a household income of over $185k.
Who is subsidizing them? The “average guy / woman” that that is getting up everyday, going to work and putting food on the table for their kids. A form of “social / energy engineering”.
It is becoming a sad day in this country when we take from MANY to give to a FEW that really don’t need it. Guess that should become our new “tag line”.
http://www.ISeeDanger.com
Report Post »lovenfl3
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:03amThere is no such thing as “green” cars. They might use less gas from oil, but they need energy in one form or another to operate. And it’s not “green” energy. We can’t afford to subsidize this stuff anymore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=619wI12Ky20
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:07amIroonman,
Who’s intent? The government? Lol, as O’Reilly says, I am just a simple man…I do not know what their foolish world domination schemes are…And I am all FOR new coal plants!!! Cheap electricity is a necessity. Why not lump more of the transportation percentage into electric too then? Just makes economic sense. Electric will never dominate transportation, but it is a good alternative for many.
Iseedanger,
Yeah, well…As far as this story goes I agree…The government needs to get its nose out of everything. The Volt is a good idea and would probably sell like hotcakes…If it were half the cost. As it is? Forget it…
Report Post »Mateytwo Barreett
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:09am@ trolltrainer
Report Post »Electric cars!?! Wow, gee whiz. How do they work. Oh,yeah! plug “em in. Where do the batteries come from? Yep, Oil for the casing and God knows what is on the inside anymeore. But we do know its acidic. Coal power plants? Seen one being built lately? Generation capacity in the US? Rolling backouts in Kaliforica. Time? 12 hour charge for a 40 mile ride! AND the argument to end all discussion. “smart meter” on your dwelling! I,m feeling the luv already!!!! But they said. . . . . . .
aBritishTenther
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:18amAnd lets not forget that in Germany with all their ‘green’ wind turbines that they have to have conventional power plants running simultaneously for when the wind drops and ‘green power’ stops, plus the Volt uses gas after 30-40 miles and its batteries have to be shipped from Korera in oil powered vessels, brilliant planning !
Report Post »fertlmind
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:40amWhy stop there?
Report Post »why not a cash for clunkers for the space shuttle program ?
it’s only money
TXMD
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:42amOne really good thing about the last Cash-for-Clunkers is that the program got a lot of Obama stickers off the highways! This second go-round will eliminate even more.
Report Post »Tifn8r
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:51amThe government buys art, pays for plays, and subsidizes cars because they’re crap that nobody would buy on their own. Thus, the government “justifies” asking for more money next year because they spent all the money they took from us THIS year. (HT to Andrew Wilkow)
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:52amHere we go again, Government Motors (GM) builds a car nobody wants at taxpayer expense and now that they can’t sell them take more taxpayer money to subsidize it. I won’t buy another GM product until the UAW goes away and the company is back in the private sector. Why pay money for a vehicle that you already paid money to produce? Socialism at it’s most exposed level.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:55amOh yeah I almost forgot. Here in Michigan the batteries don’t even last for a 40 mile ride because of the climate. Imagine you build an electric car in a state that it’s useless in. Only Government Motors and the UAW would come up with an asinine idea like that.
Report Post »Dustyluv
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:57amI will buy a green car as soon as they put a loaded gun in my mouth and force me to buy one. Every time I see a Prius I want to sideswipe it with my truck.
Report Post »If anyone wants a piece of crap, I have some in my toilet for free…
trolltrainer
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:06amDustyluv writes:
Every time I see a Prius I want to sideswipe it with my truck.
—————————————————————-
Ha! I bet you are a VERY irritated driver!
You should test drive one, you may be surprised.
Report Post »GETLIFE
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:14amCash for Coal Cars! How cool is that?
Report Post »Or how about that uncontainable feeling that while driving you are just a step removed from being a nuclear power plant technician!
GETLIFE
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:19am“GREEN” has never had it so good!
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:25amWhy don’t they attack long haul trucking, that is where the over whelming majority of the fuel used for transportation in this nation goes, and where actual savings could easily be accomplished, fairly cheaply. There are thousands and trucks that go from Dallas to CA, Dallas to Atlanta, Dallas to Chicago non stop daily, these could all go on rail and use 1/200th the fuel of individual trucks, 1/400th the pollution, save thousands and thousands of lives taken in interstate accidents involving trucks every year, tens of millions in damages caused in these accidents, and save billions on interstate/highway repairs from the damage caused by long haul truckers.
Also if you look at these electric cars, when you put the energy used/pollution generated to produce the batteries, and the energy used/pollution generated to dispose/recycle the batteries, they end up using more energy and producing more pollution than a modern diesel car would over it’s life span.
Report Post »TXPilot
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:29amThats exactly what I want….a nice, electric car to drive, so when the radicals finally takes over in this country, I will have something to drive past all the boarded up buildings, mosques and people being stoned to death, to obtain my government supplied, monthly roll of toilet paper. It’s gonna suck if its more than a few miles from my house though, since my toy car will run down and I will be forced to walk the rest of the way.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:30amWhy would any one other than corn farmers want to use ethanol to fuel cars? We can produce synthetic oil from tree tops, corn cobs, corn plants, stuff we would burn or bury for a cost less than ethanol, that uses less energy to produce, the waste from the process is fertilizer, the oil produced can be refined in existing refineries into gas, heating oil, or diesel, that burns cleanly and efficiently,
Report Post »AzDebi
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:46amWell…when you can’t sell those cars…you just give em away! (of course, at the tax payers expense)…”By whatever means necessary…”
Report Post »robin.kevin
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:52amSwampy writes:
Why would any one other than corn farmers want to use ethanol to fuel cars? We can produce synthetic oil from tree tops, corn cobs, corn plants, stuff we would burn or bury for a cost less than ethanol, that uses less energy to produce, the waste from the process is fertilizer, the oil produced can be refined in existing refineries into gas, heating oil, or diesel, that burns cleanly and efficiently,
_________________________________________________
This is true, however those items alone are not available at a large enough of volume to replace oil gas. It kinda goes on the scale of what we could do if everyone recycled… Nice fairytale but that’s about where it ends. Not saying those oils don’t have use as they do and are great to replace other products that needs oil to be made. Also if the government stops paying farmers not to grow tobacco that’s less money out of tax payers pockets, the farmers can make up their loss with a new crop “corn”. Those farmers in return pay taxes when that corn is sold for oil. Its the whole picture you have to look at not just one little part.
I am by no means the smartest man, but I do have strong common sense and it makes sense. As does reducing the number of long haul trucks on the road as you mention.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 9:57amTo interject my thoughts I find all the talk about “greener” to be irrelevant anyway as the argument for man-made global warming is an absolute farce scientifically. Now if you want to decrease dependence fine have it, but the science for electric cars is in its infancy and has a long way to go before it becomes practical to meet the needs on a national scale. For now one way to decrease dependence on foreign oil is to drill all that we have. We currently have known more reserves than Saudi Arabia. And Canada’s tar sand they have practically begged us to buy from them. Yet since we are idiots good ole China has stepped in to fill that roll. Another secret that science believes to be true that oil companies and OPEC doesn’t want you to know is that oil fields seem to be refilling and sometimes rapidly so this garbage about running out or increasing shortages does not seem to be supported by the most recent data at all.
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/oilfieldsrefilling10apr05.shtml
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 10:01amHere is another resource to go along with my last comment.
http://www.infowars.com/articles/economy/peak_oil_index.htm
Report Post »maumau
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 10:05ampaying farmers not to grow….buying a car company…pushing “green cars”….“helps” those who wouldn’t be able to afford one….how can no one see where this man is always going? im scared , uh first sign — ” just like cash for clunkers..” how quick do they think we forget? my goodness wake up!
(maybe he’ll fine us for having gas cars, untill we take his money and get an electric one, hey just like health care)
Report Post »right-wing-waco
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 11:10amLets face it, the goal of the left is to create further dependance on the government and maybe control our travels. We have enough oil right here in the USA to last for a long time. Do we need something cleaner, cheaper, and better… YES. Electric cars are part of the answer but they still need lots of work. When you can go 400 miles on a charge and not have to wait 4-8 hours to continue on… ok. There should be NO cash for anything from the government as this is really cash from the taxpayers.
To continue on with this mentality that we should buy oil from our enemies and ban drilling here in America is sheer ignorance. American business has for over 200 years solved problems without the help or mandate of government and we can do it again if left alone. To quote Ronald Reagan, Government is not the answer to our problems, Government IS the problem.
Report Post »drphil69
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 11:22amNobody wants them. I doubt this program will be successful. “free money” to buy a $40k car, reducing its price to $32.5k, when MUCH nicer gasoline cars are available for much less money. It is all BS anyway. The volt is not an electric vehicle, it is a plug in hybrid. And as far as hybrids go, it isn’t even that good when using gas – significantly less milage than a prius, and about the same as my Mom’s Chevy Cobalt (37 mpg). I really don’t want to subsidize rich liberals who are the only people that will buy the volt anyway!
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 11:48amThere are cars that run on compressed air. Where are those?
Report Post »CatB
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 11:57amNO they DON’T understand TESS .. they think Electricity just MAGICALLY comes out of the outlet!
They are IDIOTS!
Report Post »GODSAMERICA
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 12:10pmAnyone dumb enough to buy one of these electrical cars, etc deserve what they get. Such as for instance, along the Gulf Coast when there is a hurricane coming in, it is very difficult to find gas to fill up the car with but if it is kept pretty full then there is no worries. However, with an electric car, if it is charged up and a hurricane comes onto land what are they going to do since these junkers go only a few miles on a charge. I’ve read something like one that is good for about 40 – 50 miles. So they take off for safer areas and after these few miles they have to recharge again. I dare them to be able to find someplace as well as the time to recharge their car before the hurricane comes in. They would have to do this probably at least a half dozen times to have a chance to get to anywhere that might even be considered slightly safe. If these geniuses want a car like that and want to put their families in harms way then so be it. I feel for the children and even some of the spouses that might have to pay for this stupidity. Prayerfully, the innocents won’t lose their lives because of it.
Report Post »FSM_47
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 12:16pmyeah—I am going to buy an all electric car that can get me from Albuquerque to Santa Fe. It just won’t get me back again. I guess I can take the train that is losing millions of tax dollars. I have a 10-year GEO that get 45 miles to the gallon. This is just another Democrat giveaway to help THEIR car company and THEIR union.
Report Post »geonj
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 1:57pm@trolltrainer
who cares what you drive. fact remains, fossil fuel is still being burned to produce the electricity. yet the “greenies” tout how clean an all electric car would be. this is all just an aspect of the GM/GE(charging station manufacturer in china)/obama green “revolution” axis of fools.
Report Post »Contrarian51
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 3:40pmRobin.Kevin, do some research on Hoover (suburb of Birmingham), Alabama and how they fuel their vehicle fleet, then tell us that there are insufficient resources to make enough non-corn ethanol and biodiesel to make a dent. Last I checked, they were 90% self-sufficient, only having to buy oil-based fuel for 10% of their needs. I don’t see us running out of wood chips or used deep fryer oil any time soon, unless Michelle Obama manages to shut down all the McDonalds and Burger Kings.
The other thing that drives me nuts is when I hear these lefties and greens use that old line about how long it would take the oil to come to market or affect oil prices if “we started drilling tomorrow.” First, it’s false. Oil prices are based on futures, which are forward looking and based in large part of the psychology of the traders. If we were to announce issuance of 100 permits and exploration in ANWR tomorrow, the price of oil would drop 10% in a week, and more as we actually got to work. Second, what is wrong with starting to do something now that might take 5 years to pay off? Is instant gratification a non-negotiable requirement for everything? This bogus argument, and Obama threw it out just a couple weeks ago, has been trotted out every so often, always by the left, since Jimmy Freaking Carter. But what do you expect from clowns who would not only have us burn food to make fuel, but subsidize that as well as subsidizing other farmers to NOT grow other crops.
It’s a sorry time in our history. Companies can‘t look past the next quarterly results because so much of the executives’ bonus plans are geared to each quarter’s stock price, and government can’t look past what will generate votes in the next election. Then you hear some throw away B.S. about what will be the burden left for our children and grandchildren. Right. And it’s not just politicians and businesses. Check out how many people have zero retirement savings, zero savings for college, zero savings for emergencies. And I’m not talking about those who have been hurt by this recession because there were a bunch of these folks putting nothing away during the booms, too.
Report Post »docvet
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 4:04pmSomebody‘s staying up nights trying to find a way to bankrupt this country by looking for ways to spend more money we don’t have. Way to go Biden, we know where you stand, don’t we!
Report Post »Jedi Master
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 8:41pmElectricity comes from fairy dust. Blame Bush! Long live Barack Hussein Muhammad Obama Bin Laden!
Report Post »1TrueOne55
Posted on March 30, 2011 at 11:59pmI have a better fuel source Hydrogen you get it from breaking water into its base parts of hydrogen and oxygen. Honda already has one in California called the Clarity…Chevy has an SUV powered by it. It is the cleanest fuel and it don’t need electricity to power the car.
Report Post »right-wing-waco
Posted on March 31, 2011 at 8:08am@ 1TrueOne55
Report Post »Hydrogen is very clean burning, but, now go do some research into how you go about breaking the water into hydrogen and oxygen. It takes MASSIVE amounts of electricity. I rad up on this last year and came away with the conclusion that the process is not clean.