Catholic Diocese Makes Bid For Crystal Cathedral Megachurch
- Posted on July 23, 2011 at 4:53pm by
Christopher Santarelli
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Officials announced Friday that the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange made a $50 million cash offer to buy Southern California’s financially struggling Crystal Cathedral. The site in Garden Grove, California, has been the home for Crystal Cathedral Ministries lead by televangelist Rev. Robert H. Schuller for more than 50 years. The current structure was designed by famed architect Philip Johnson and dedicated in 1980. The Crystal Cathedral is the recording location for Schuller’s internationally televised “Hour of Power,” and home of the over 10,000 member congregation.
The Diocese of Orange said its proposal could pull the megachurch out of bankruptcy by the end of the year. The Crystal Cathedral is trying to sell the property and lease back portions of it for use for services to help erase a $36 million mortgage and settle nearly $10 million in unsecured debt. The church has been plagued by financial troubles after a disastrous leadership transition and a devastating slump in donations.
The church is also mulling several other offers. A real estate investment firm offered $46 million, as did Chapman University, which is considering building a medical school on the sprawling campus. A Norco-based church, My Father’s House Church International, also made a $50 million offer for the property, which includes the famous 234-foot glass-spired church designed by architect Philip Johnson.
The diocese, which is looking for a less expensive alternative to building a new cathedral for its 1.2 million parishioners, said its proposal would allow the Crystal Cathedral to lease portions of the property for three years at below market rates.
At the end of the lease, the ministry would have to find a new location with the help of the diocese.
The bid “respects the legacy Rev. Schuller worked so hard to establish,” Diocese of Orange Bishop Tod D. Brown said in a statement. “Our offer also clearly accommodates future diocesan needs for a cathedral and modern administrative campus.”
The Associated Press contributed to this article.
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Comments (241)
jedi.kep
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 10:58pmGo Catholics! It is a beautiful cathedral and worthy of a catholic congregation to be sure.
Report Post »Greenwood
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 11:36pmRev. 18:7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, …………………….For in her heart she keeps saying, I sit a queen………………………..8 That is why in one day her plagues will come……………………..Rev. 17: 7…………..I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the wild beast that is carrying her…………….
Report Post »It’s pretty clear to me who; the mystery…. Babylon the great, the mother of the harlots refers to.
jzs
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 12:11amThe latest is the Muslims will buy that church. They’ve offered 20% more, cash, for the building an property, but we’ll see what happens. I’m not sure what will happen, but the Catholics are going to have up their offer.
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 11:16am@jzs—Really?–You wouldn’t be trying to start something here.If you want us to believe it , show more proof like, where you got the “latest”.
Report Post »bags4funerals
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 2:14pmI’ve been by this building many times and inside once or twice. It is a beautiful place and perfect for a church. I am glad to see it stay a church instead of becoming a convention center or some suce thing… BTW… If you are going to put forth a strong argument, and you wish to be taken seriously, I suggest you learn the difference between “your” and “you’re”. Stating something like “Your an idiot.“ does not go very far in furthering ”your” point. “You’re” going to get much further if you take a moment and think before you type.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 2:30pmI don’t know which is worse defiling a Christian holy place, the catholic or the muslims both seem to always cause great human suffering any where they infest.
Report Post »RJO
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 2:39pm“Greenwood” is without a doubt a bigot toward the Catholic Church.
For all I know…..this “troller” may be on the Soros payroll.
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 2:54pmMuslims are going to by a building made of glass. Just think of the repair costs from all those sanctioned stoning of teen age women.
Report Post »rwinger261
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 3:12pmWhat is forgotten is the legacy of blood the RC church left while trying to stamp out those who tried to give the population the Word of God. How is it that the Inquisition, with it’s unspeakable horror chambers torturing men, women, and children, can be so easily overlooked? There still are a few who haven’t taken her mark.
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 5:30pm@RJO
Report Post »I hate to tell you but when someone states facts it would be very doubtful that they would be on the Soros payroll. Just because you don‘t like what someone says doesn’t mean that you start accusing people of things like that. In fact, making accusations like that is textbook liberal (soros?) wacko. Also, because the facts disprove almost all claims to the legitamacy of the catholic church doesn’t make someone a bad person for stating those facts.
Greenwood
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 6:01pm@ RJO……..I was raised catholic and went to a catholic school in the 60′s.
Report Post »When an organization like this covers up many of the things done over the many years from the inquisition to the priest scandals and just move the priest from one church to another there is something wrong.
Mattew 7: 21-23 “Not everyone saying to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father…………….23 And yet I will confess to them: I never knew YOU ! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.
Greenwood
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 7:20pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toBOML5W4uQ
Report Post »Messenger4God
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 7:31pmI applaud the Catholic Church for making this bold move to serve the needs of the congregation.
Report Post »@ SWAMPY, I live in a predominantly Catholic community and I continue to see Catholic organizations helping out the poor, the homeless, the abused etc. contrary to your statement. Let‘s focus on what’s good instead misdeeds.
AmericablessGod
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 7:43pmYes, this is a beautiful gesture to preserve this glorious building for the worship of God. Too bad this will always bring out the Catholic-haters to bash the Church for what they believe to be the work of Satan. Would Satan have recorded, protected, and preserved the Holy Bible for all believers of future generations? Does Greenwood realize the Bible he quotes comes from the Roman Catholic Church?
Would the “Church od Satan” have spread the faith across the globe for the first 1500 years of the Church’s history? If the Church were so evil, would it have created today’s great hospitals, schools, and countless outreach ministries to the poorest of the poor for almost 2000 years?
My Church, the Roman Catholic Church, teaches me to love our enemies and to pray for our separated brethren. Too bad Greenwood can’t bring himself to do the same.
By the way, it‘s Apostolic succession that forever connects today’s Pope and Bishops to the Apostles who walked with the Lord. Whomever leads your denomination came along much later, probably in the past 150 years, born of division and disobedience, not love.
Report Post »Greenwood
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 9:08pm@ AMERICABLESSGOD…………Jesus did say in 1John 5: 19 Yhe whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one…………………….1 John 5: 21 Little children, guard yourselves against idols.
Report Post »Greenwood
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 9:15pmThe whole world………..sorry I know how some of you are about spelling which I am lousy @
Report Post »Cerealface
Posted on July 26, 2011 at 9:05amChurches don’t create jobs.
Convention center please.
Report Post »Gatekeeper
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 10:50pmChrist created the Catholic church.
Report Post »Greenwood
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 11:13pmI think it was Constantine the Great
Report Post »A_Gudino
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 11:33pmAbsolutely right! Christ requested for St. Peter to build his Church on this rock (Petro). St Peters basilica in Rome now stands on the same site where Christ requested and St. Peter became the first Pope of the Holy Catholic Church, the only Church with roots directly connected to our Lord the savior Jesus Christ!
Report Post »Greenwood
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 11:41pm@A_GUDINO………..are you serious???????????
Report Post »Dorkville
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 12:24amMy church has been going 2 years and has a very direct connection to Jesus Christ and it’s not catholic…in fact, I speak with him personally on a daily basis.
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 5:42am@Greenwood
A_GUDINO………..are you serious???????????
Yes I’m afraid he is. The catholic church to justify their authority has been spreading this story out pretty much since Constatine started the catholic church. What gets me is that they like to claim Matthew 16:18 even though it says NOTHING about a catholic church. This is because the Messianic church was the only one and the catholic church wants everyone to believe that they are the only church so to them that scripture means them. I am brokenhearted because when I see people up there tell God that they are to go to heaven just because Jesus said that upon Peter He will build HIS (not the catholic’s church) Church (which by the way catholics, if it is like you say then why did Jesus later call Peter satan?), anyways when God has to tell them that they have been lied to and mislead by the church and it has caused them to follow a perversion of His Word. That will be tragic. Prayerfully I do believe that there are some catholics that have superseded the catholic church and are truly saved. I feel quite certain in saying that no one will see any catholic leaders there though.
Report Post »Wayner
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 8:02amWhat a bunch of mis-lead dummies. When Christ said,“Upon this Rock I will build My Church”. He was speaking of Himself being the Rock. Learn a little Greek…. Petro was Peter (the little rock) PETRA (the Big Rock) was Christ Himself. “What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Lord?” Millions are starving in the world and these so-called religious organizations are concerned with buying beautiful buildings designed by a homosexual queer.
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 10:21am@Wayner
Report Post »I definitely agree with you. While Jesus said that there will always be poor among us when the woman was spreading oil over His feet basically telling us that we cannot eliminate poverty. However, these churches show terrible stewardship, they are building churches for the vanity of man not the Glory of God. There is absolutely NO reason for churches or public buildings either to be this fancy and extravagant. I went to a thesaurus to look for a particular word I wanted to use but all of these words described this too well: absurd, bizarre, costly, crazy, exaggerated, excessive, exorbitant, expensive, extortionate, extreme, fanciful, fancy, fantastic, flamboyant, flashy, foolish, garish, gaudy, grandiose, immoderate, implausible, improvident, imprudent, inordinate, lavish, ludicrous, nonsensical, ornate, ostentatious, outrageous, overpriced, preposterous, pretentious, prodigal, profligate, reckless, ridiculous, showy, silly, spendthrift, steep, unbalanced, unconscionable, unreasonable, unrestrained absurd, bizarre, costly, crazy, exaggerated, excessive, exorbitant, expensive, extortionate, extreme, fanciful, fancy, fantastic, flamboyant, flashy, foolish, garish, gaudy, grandiose, immoderate, implausible, improvident, imprudent, inordinate, lavish, ludicrous, nonsensical, ornate, ostentatious, outrageous, overpriced, preposterous, pretentious, prodigal, profligate, reckless, ridiculous, showy, silly, spendthrift, steep, unbalanced, unconscionable, unreasonable!
BlazingPatriot
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 10:27amJesus had nothing to do with the beginning of Catholicism. This belief had it’s beginnings at the council of Nicea in 320AD. When Jesus spoke of building his church, he was not speaking of a brick and mortar building but rather a group of followers and believers.
Report Post »mycomet123
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 10:47amGREENWOOD, First off I think you should change your name to DRIFTWOOD for you don’t have a CLUE as to how STUPID your comments are! Seriously I’m embarresed for you!
Report Post »JokerWatcher
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 11:01am“St Peters basilica in Rome now stands on the same site where Christ requested…”
WOW, that’s a stretch. Christ was never in Rome (or across the Tibris on the Vatican side). He made the statment in Caesarea Phillipi.
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 11:12amA_Gudino,
Just for your information, Jesus, the Christ of God was never in Rome. His ministry was in Israel.
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 11:31ammycomet123,
Why do you think Greenwood is stupid? At least he explains his reasons for his views. You have not done that. All you do is call him stupid without any real example. You are the one without facts, all you have is baseless condemnation.
Report Post »mycomet123
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 12:27pmBLACKTOOTH, First off I agree that I did not defend my position with GREENWOOD–I assumed he would not really care for an explanation because some people already have their minds closed. If I assumed wrong than I apologize to GREENWOOD. Look, to state that Constantine founded the Catholic church is STUPID. Christ founded the church. The word catholic means universal which encompasses ALL. CHRISTIANITY WAS ALL ONE CHURCH for the first thousand years, so WHATEVER church you feel the need to criticize please realize that in doing so you are in some aspect tearing down your own churches origin.
Report Post »rharmony
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 1:06pmGatekeeper has it right! Those who are posting comments on “how much it costs and where the money is going, should open their bibles and read all of Judas’s remarks.
Report Post »Old Truckers
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 1:35pmJesus Christ is head of the Christian Congregation of true, loyal followers of our Lord.
Report Post »Does the Catholic Church measure up to that original first century congregation, or is it a product of deviation, apostasy, or a falling away from the pure teachings of Christ? That is a question for each of us individually to find the answer.
Greenwood
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 2:26pm@MYCOMET123 Costantine in 325 ce at the First Council of Nicaea ………first enforced the prohibition against celebrating the Lord’s Supper on the day before the Jewish Passover ( Nisan 14 ) So now we have Easter which comes from Ishtar, Eostre, Eastre the goddess of sex and fertility. Were do you think the bunny and the egg come from. They changed the Sabbath from the 7th day to the first day Sunday. Sun………..that comes from sun worship. Constantine worshiped all the Roman gods. This information is easy to confirm if you do your homework. “Question with boldness” 1 John 4: 1 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspireed expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
It was true then and it’s even more true now
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 2:28pm@mycomet123
Report Post »I got news for you. No one but Constatine and his followers came up with the name catholic to denote a universal church. Constatine STARTED the catholic church as a mixture primarily of the sun worship religion which he was head of and most of the remnant of the believers that agreed to compromise because they were tired of being chased and killed by the ROMANS such as Constatine and other emporers before him. Just because someone decided to make use of the name catholic does not make it THE church that God intended. That would be like me saying that I am the catholic genius of all time, would that make me the universal genius of all time just because I used the word catholic? Another thing for Catholics that like to use Matt. 16:18 with Peter being the rock and being made the first pope, if you wish to claim that then you have to take the good with the bad because soon after Jesus told Peter that He would build His church, he told Peter to “get behind me satan”. So if you want to claim that scripture you also have to claim that Jesus called the first “pope” satan so where does that leave the catholic church based on a charge of being satanic by Jesus Himself. Just remember that if you want to claim something then you have to claim it all. So either Constatine started to the Catholic Church or Jesus started it with Peter and basically charged the church with being satanic. Which is it?
RJO
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 2:48pmI pray for these “Christians” who are full of hatred and ignorance. Though denied, this is a prime example of “divide and destroy”…..the Catholic Church has been persecuted since Peter and will continue to experience this hatred….even from self-identified brothers and sisters in Christ.
Love the sinner and hate the sin.
When I ask the protesters within the thousands of sub-protests that have occurred after Luther, what unifies them…I get a blank stare. And for all of the self-anointed “Popes” within these protests…the individuals and groups who see their ships breaking apart….I pray for you as well.
Instead of spreading and spewing hatred…..rely on love…the love of almighty God. And stop using these outlets and stories as an excuse to hammer.
Report Post »mycomet123
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 3:47pmSOUND THE TRUMPET IN ZION & GREENWOOD. The church that I belong to was founded by Christ. Jesus told Peter that upon this rock I will build my church & the gates of hell will not prevail. First off as a christian there is one thing I WILL NEVER DO & this is to criticize any other christian denomination. I ask you why you are so hell bent on trashing the Catholic church?. I have always viewed (& will always view)fellow christians my brothers & sisters regardless of what christian denomination they belong to. We all belong to THE KINGDOM OF GOD for Jesus states that the KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU. I’m not going to spend my time debating with you about how Constantine influenced the church because I think the more important aspect to contemplate is why christians are so hell bent on destroying other christians. If you want to believe that the Catholic church is satanic than go for it if that makes you feel more fulfilled as a christian. I pray that God may Bless You!
Report Post »mycomet123
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 4:00pmSOUND THE TRUMPET IN ZION—-P.S.– When Jesus told Peter to “get behind me satan” he was stating this because Peter told Jesus he would never allow Jesus to be crucified. I really think that this is SAD the way you equate this to Peter being the first pope & therefore the Catholic church is satanic. I wish you well in whatever church you belong to–it must be an awesome church because they obviously NEVER make mistakes or say or do the wrong things. Congrats on finding THE PERFECT CHURCH.
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 5:37pm@RJO
Report Post »If you think that people that uses facts to prove a point and disprove yours makes them “Christians” who are full of hatred and ignorance.” Then you will really hate when you have to face God‘s Perfect Truth mixed with God’s Perfect Love and balanced with God’s Perfect Justice and you have to tell Him that He is “full of hatred and ignorance” because He tells you that the Catholic Church is what it is proven to be. What do you think He will do when you call Him a hater and ignorant because He disagrees with what you say. I would say that it would be a very GOOD idea to research, study and not stop looking until you find the truth instead of just blindly believing whatever kind of koolaid the Catholic Church decides to give to their congregations that week. THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!!!
Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 5:43pmBTW: We do not hate the Catholic Church. The leadership of the Catholic Church is since they cannot truthfully deny that they don’t know the truth when they reach the level that they do. The people are just trying to follow God and Jesus and it is not fully their fault that they don’t know that the church has been feeding lies to their “people” as long as they came into existence in 320AD. It is comparable to the unions here. The union leaders are crooked as all get out but the large majority of the rank and file union members are not like that. Feel free to tell me I’m a liar, that I hate the Catholic Church, that I hate this and that. It won’t bother me to be told that because I know that all I have to do is wait until the truth is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, and I can safely say that it won’t be me that is proven wrong. Stop trying to act like liberal wackos that blindly accept whatever they are told instead of digging and searching out the truth. The truth has no agenda so it cannot hate the Catholic Church.
Report Post »Greenwood
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 6:23pm@ SOUND THE TRUPET IN ZION……………..well said
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 10:57pm@mycomet123
I hereby state that I am a catholic man. Now I guess that since I’m a catholic man that I encompass all of humankind and therefore all mankind is indebted to me. Actually if you were as knowledgable as you like to think, you would realize that when constatine came up with the name catholic (yes it means universal) but it is used just like the word generic. This means that the name of the catholic religion is just based on what would be considered a generic name. It amazes me how people will make and lay claim to something specific. Say Matthew 16:18 and then claim that it says that Jesus created the catholic church when there is 0% proof of it having anthing to do with any catholic church. Just because the Catholic church “claimed” that particular scripture to use as the basis for the catholic religion doesn’t make it so. That would be the same as walking into a garage and claiming to be a car. It just don’t make it so!
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 8:06am@mycomet
Matthew 16:18 says: “And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”
Now show me where it says that Jesus told Peter “you are hereby the first pope of the catholic church”, or anything else in there about the catholic church? I know you can‘t because it DOESN’T say anything like that. The first leaders of the catholic church after it was created by constatine made that claim on that scripture to give itself authority. But lets get technical here, the Jewish leaders wanted Jesus killed, the Romans (the founders of the catholic church did the physical killing) even though Jesus was not actually “killed” He gave up His life. ANY church denomination has as much right as the catholic church does to claim that scripture for their own denomination. The catholic church does not “own” Peter. If you wanted to truly find out the truth about the catholic church then you would actually study it in depth, including them being made up also of the sun worshipers. Then read God‘s Word and the catholic church would not fit in with God’s words because of the combination of the two religions. However, this does not necessarily affect the people in the church as long as they have truly accepted Christ as their Savior. I believe that anyone in the catholic church will have to answer to God regarding their part in that church. The only true important thing to worry about is accepting Jesus a
Report Post »rqueen
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 8:40amRegardless of which church it is, all of this is actually unimportant compared to whether or not the person has accepted Jesus as their LORD and SAVIOR! However, truth is important too as God says that liars will not be accepted into Heaven. I am not accusing anyone of lying but just stating that speaking only truth is VERY important go God. God WILL decide what importance anything else is on Judgement Day and at that time it won’t matter because it will be too late to change anything. One big thing to remember is that Love will cover a multitude of sins.
1 Peter 4:8 “And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “love will cover a multitude of sins.”
I just pray that everyone will be open to truth and focus on allowing Jesus to be their Lord so that they can be accepted into God’s Kingdom. AMEN!!!
Report Post »DLG123
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 10:23amConstatine did not start the Catholic Church he LEGALIZED IT. Ignatious of Antioch coined the term “Catholic” around 98 A.D.
Report Post »MyComet if you are still out there I don’t know if you have just started posting here but you will find that no matter how much information and you give them (specifically) Sound the Trumpet, Okie, and Greenwood you will never get them to stop spreading lies about the Catholic Church. My guess is that they are either JW‘s or SDA’s (just my guess I may be wrong). But they may be the wacko Fundamentalist that believe the word was created 5000 years ago. I have had this arguement with them about Peter before. Because Jesus didn’t say specifically “YOU ARE POPE” in English that he must have not been Pope. Jesus also never said anything about Bible nor about the Trinity. He did tell about the Eucharist and about men forgiving sins through Him yet they reject these. They are what I call Cafeteria Christians I like this but I don’t like this. What I am trying to say is you are wasting your time trying to convince them since their hearts are hardened. So my advise is to shake the dust from you sandals and move on.
Peace
DLG
This_Individual
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 11:33amGreenwood – Constantine did not create the Catholic church. Constantine saw an opportunity to gain support for his own political gains. He was just another bloodthirsty, totalitarianist, war monger, who was part of a long list of traitors to the Roman Republic.
Report Post »Hisemiester
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 3:09pmGreenwood is correct. There were to Jesus’ One was a Zadokite Zealot his name was Jesus Bar Joseph (Jesus the son of Joseph) This Jesus was written of by Flavous Josephus who lived at the time of Christ and may have been on of Jesus’ coharts. He was caught by the Romans and most likely turned on the rest of Jesus’ group. The other Jesus was made Jesus the Christ by the Roman emperor Constantine in or about the year 325. It was Constantine who made Jesus devine.
Report Post »Read Constantines sword by James Carroll. Another book to read is the Great Controversy by Ellen G White. Before arguing pro or con, read these books.
DLG123
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 4:00pmEllen G White is a noted anti-Catholic and Seventh Day Adventist who is not only a heretic but tried to tie the number 666 to the Pope by CREATING a title for the Pope that does NOT nor HAS NEVER existed but the funny thing is her name as well as Martin Luther’s name add up to 666. Ellen G. White is famous for making end of the world predictions that obviously never came true.
Report Post »ChristianLayman
Posted on July 26, 2011 at 12:17amNo, for the umpteenth time Constantine the Great did NOT create the Catholic Church. The Council of Nicea was called to refute and condemn Arianism, which is the belief that Christ is of a separate substance than God The Father (and by relation,. separate from the Holy Spirit). The Logical conclusion of this train of thought, would be the belief that God is three completely different entities not connected in any way shape or form. We call this TRI-Theism, which by extension is polytheism.
This was CONDEMNED by the Catholic Church at Nicea as HERESY. The most Constantine did was actually hold and attend the council in an honorary position (well he IS the emperor) while the bishops hammered out the definition of the Trinitarian doctrine (Holy Trinity).
Furthermore, and I’ve posted this on other threads have YET to get a sound rebuttal is that if Constantine indeed “found” the Catholic Church, why do Ignatius and Polycarp, who were alive in the late 1st – mid 2nd Centuries AD make references to the Catholic Church. Are we to believe that Constantine had a TIME MACHINE to which he co-opted the Church right after St. John of Patmos died in all part of diabolical attempt to subvert Christianity to paganism and RULE THE WORLD!!!????
No wonder the Heathens think ALL CHRISTIANS are nuts. They probably think we’re all bitter, hateful, Bible thumping, barely literate redneck fundamentalist quacks, since they use you as the standard to judge us by.
Report Post »ChristianLayman
Posted on July 26, 2011 at 12:30am@ DLG123
Good grief, they believe in the Trinity yet that term isn’t mentioned in the Bible and comes from the very Church Council that they condemn!
I wonder… should I post the Nicene Creed for them to take a look at. It’s pretty much what all Christians, barring apostates have believed explicitly for the past 1680+ years.
Report Post »John14_6
Posted on July 26, 2011 at 1:00pmOn whom is the church build… Peter or Jesus?
1 Corinthians 3:11 “For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”
Who was the Rock… Peter or Jesus?
1 Corinthians 10:4b “For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.”
Here’s some other interesting facts about Peter:
1. In Acts 15, the story of the first church council at Jerusalem. Who led the council? Verse 13 tells us, “After these had finished speaking, James made this answer saying, ‘Brethren, listen to me.’” Who was it that was the head of the council? Not Peter, but James. If Peter had been the pope, he would have led the council
2. Peter was married: Celibacy is something that the Catholic church has required of priests and nuns, however if Peter was the first pope, how is it that he was married putting him in direct contradiction with the doctrines of Catholicism.
Matthew 8:14 “Now when Jesus had come into Peter’s house, He saw his wife’s mother lying sick with a fever.”
3. Scripture gives no indication that Peter was supreme over all the other disciples. This is evident in that no apostle held a supreme position at any time during the New Testament. Luke 22:24-30 gives the account just prior to Christ’s crucifixion. Don’t you think all the times they questioned Jesus as to who the greatest was, He (Jesus) would have indicated Peter, if he was to be the head of the church?
Report Post »John14_6
Posted on July 26, 2011 at 1:03pmBecause the catholic church is founded on a man and not Christ, you have these issues:
In the book, “The Unquenchable Flame” it records this:
Report Post »“After seventy years the people of Rome were fed up; the papal court, after all, had been their city’s greatest source of dignity (and revenue). Thus in 1378, when the College of Cardinals sat in Rome to elect the next pope, a mob besieged them, demanding the election of a proper Italian, and preferably Roman, pope. The terrified cardinals understandably gave in to the mob’s demands. They soon began to regret their decision, however, when they saw how domineering and aggressive the new pope was. Many started voicing the opinion that the election could not have been valid, given that it had been conducted under duress. And so they elected a new pope, a Frenchman. Unfortunately, the first appointee, still in perfect health, refused to stand down, meaning that there were now two popes, who naturally excommunicated each other. Effectively, with two Holy Fathers, this entailed that there were now two Mother Churches.
RightPolitically
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 10:37pmOrganized Religion is BIG BUSINESS and BIG BUCKS. Does God want this kind of earthly shrine? No! Lot’s of suckers out there made it possible and they still went bust. Regardless of how great Schuller was or any other preacher for that matter, this complex and others like it bespeak extreme VANITY!
Report Post »sbenard
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 10:02pmWhen does this country realize that debt really IS a problem?
Report Post »Greenwood
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 10:00pmRevelation 17th and 18th chapters…………..Babylon the Great…………….she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, ……………Too bad, too bad – the great city, clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet, and richly adorned with gold ornament and precious stone and pearl, because in one hour such great riches have been devastated !
Report Post »Who do you think these chapters are referring to?
I Stand With Israel
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 10:14pmThank you. I do not know how the leaders of all of these churches can preach about the humble life of Jesus, and then think they need all the bells and whistles they can get.
Report Post »xfranman
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 2:41amRome, you bigoted ninny. Your a typical smorgasboard thumper tossing out bits and pieces you don’t understand. Constantine the Great didn’t “found” the Church. What a stupid remark. You’re the harlot.
Report Post »Sound The Trumpet In Zion
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 5:49am@xfranman
“Rome, you bigoted ninny. Your a typical smorgasboard thumper tossing out bits and pieces you don’t understand. Constantine the Great didn’t “found” the Church. What a stupid remark. You’re the harlot.”
You are correct that constatine didn’t “found” the church since it was never lost. He DID start it after he made it palatible to his sun worship group which he was head of so that he could mix the two up and in reality create a “sun worshiping god and son of god” of whom he was in charge of and could control. If there is any question about this, look at the staff that the catholic priest carries around when they are parading. The sunburst has always been the symbol of the sun worshipers, and it can be seen plain as day on their sun worship symbol placed on the cross.
Report Post »gogol
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 12:02pmWho are what is Babylon the Great? Possibly the U.S.A. (Babylon the Great) or New York City (the Lesser Babylon.) I‘m not saying it is or it isn’t. But the idea is interesting.
http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/survival/new_york_mystery_babylon.html
Report Post »ChristianLayman
Posted on July 26, 2011 at 12:35amThe Old Jerusalem you cretin. Because that’s exactly how the 1st Century Church interpreted Revelation.
Report Post »poverty.sucks
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 9:16pmUnconstructive prayers result in waste.
Report Post »Gypsy123
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 8:29pmBuilt by human hands will not stand.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 2:57pmDo you pray is a church or at home? Either way it was built by man.
Report Post »Pastor Melissa
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 8:10pmChapman University = Disciples of Christ university
Interesting how the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) dissed the ministry of the Crystal Cathedral at the recent General Assembly.
Report Post »Maybe there is no connection…. but it is interesting.
LVMerrily
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 8:06pmToo bad the finances got so out of hand. I remember when it was started as a renovated drive-in theater. That way families could go to church and the kids not bother anybody else. It was a small close-knit congregation. Then it gradually turned commercial and into big business. The Christmas pageants were spectacular.
Report Post »landmark
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 7:38pmI‘m sure this was all brought about by Allen Hunt’s book “Confessions of a Mega Church Pastor.”
Nice job Allen Hunt………………………..
Report Post »Utah_Carl
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 7:18pmHow much for the ego?
Report Post »john654
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 7:03pmI watched the Crystal Cathedral being built and could see from my kitchen window blocks away. Trust me, it’s a bird avery. It’s a huge modern building with no inside walls. A glass house on shaky ground!
John
Report Post »LibertyGirl USA
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 4:14pmIs it as ugly in person as it is in the picture? I am not a fan of modern looking churches.
Report Post »NYHuguenot
Posted on July 25, 2011 at 6:39pmI grew up in Schuller’s denomination The Reformed Church In America, descended from the Dutch Reformed Church In America founded in New Netherlands in 1628. My family were members since they came here from the Netherlands. I even have family that have been seminary professors and a president. They went downhill 100 or so years ago. Marble Collegiate called a Methodist Norman Vincent Peale to it’s pulpit. Methodists are not Reformed. Schuller was Peale’s main disciple. The RCA said nothing about the departure form sound teaching because tehy brought in lots of money. Ordaining Homosexuals is not far away for them. Their partners the ELCA and PCUSA and ECUSA already do. Schuller had no theology, it was always about feeling good about yourself. Positive thinking. I’m pleased with myself so that means God is too. A friend who is a PCA pastor went there once to speak on something by invitation. Every time he mentioned Jesus and salvation Schuller winced. People who think they are doing great don’t need Jesus, they are saving themselves.To watch the succession issues at Chrystal was not surprising. Schuller retired and appointed his son to replace him. The son tried to return to orthodoxy so father fired him and then appointed his daughter. They built up factions and destroyed their congregation. God needs to send a tornado agaginst the place and destroy every piece of glass.
Report Post »heavyduty
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 6:27pmLooks like they should have used the money that was given to better use. It all belongs to God and He can take it away if you don’t manage it right.
Report Post »rbyerly
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 6:24pmRegardless of the failings of the messenger, the message is flawless. Our country’s deliverance and success stands between Deuteronomy and 2nd Corinthians. Rev Shuller‘s ministry will be here or won’t pending G-d’s plan for it. The same is true for us all.
Report Post »conservativewoman
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 6:09pmMy husband (a Catholic) helped build the church and remodeled Schuller‘s son’s house. The son lived in high style with a lot of expensive goodies.
Report Post »The son didn’t much care about the church, so the daughter took over.
thomas
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 8:36pm“conservativegossipingwoman Your an old crow sitting in the tree and calling out to passerbys to listen to your ridiculous tales about others.
Report Post »Go to the kitchen and cook up something meaningful there would ya.
DR4SOUL
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 2:12amNot really! As I observed it, the son, Robert Schuller, in his television messages attempted to swing the emphasis toward a more Biblical, Bible teaching ministry. And, he was doing a pretty good job. But, Dad, Dr. Robert Schuller, decided he didn’t want to go that direction and took his son out of the television pulpit, brought in experience-centered guest speakers and ultimately put his daughter in charge. Now we are seeing the result of this unfortunate decision. The “Possibility Thinking” ministry of Dr. Robert Schuller has apparently run short of possibilities. I would like to see a strong conservative evangelical ministry step up to the plate and turn that place into a flagship Bible teaching ministry. Are you listening John MacArthur and David Jeremiah? Anybody out there have $50,000,000 to make this possible?
Report Post »AmeriCat
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 3:26am@ Dr4Soul…my exact sentiments.
Magnificent buildings and grounds,
We, too, appreciated the more Biblical nature of the son’s preachings.
We were sorry to see him leave.
Yes, we have been hoping a God LOVING organization
….of perhaps Beck University….
would find this site perfect for their message.
Report Post »Aequitas
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:43pmArchitectually it’s a magnificent structure. It’s too bad they waste it on something as silly as religion
Report Post »The Gooch
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:59pmMan, I remember hearing about Schuller attacking a flight attendant back in the ’90s. Wacky. I have no problem with faith… and no love for organized religion.
Report Post »AnEpiphany
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 2:04amAequitas(some others)-It‘s not as silly as you stating it’s a waste because it religious. I am guessing your one of the people thinks it wrong because you don’t believe. Well it a right for any person to have their beliefs and dreams not stomped on. Think of others not about yourself imposing righteousness. Also, for those who think the same as you do.
Have a blessed day.
Report Post »sundance_sp
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 4:03amSilly as religion??? Hmmm,, let’s see. If you may, please express your suggestions on the “mangificent structures” where atheism is an inspiration? I would like to see them. Actually, the CC is a very poor example in the case of a “higher” inspiration, in at least my opinion, but if you think so, that is ok.
Report Post »pennswoods
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 8:15pmThe Catholic Church has always been a friend of art, architecture, music and all creativity that can spread the message of the Gospels and inspire or teach us. Nothing “silly” about the great Gothic Cathedrals of the Middle ages, beautiful Baroque churches or the Sistine Chapel ceiling or a long long list of other beautiful art and architectural treasures the Catholic Church has contributed to Western Civilization and given to all of humanity to appreciate and be inspired by.
Report Post »stevoschmidt
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:35pmlooks like another bailout on the horizon lol
Report Post »Orwell_Was_An_Optimist
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:33pmAbout five years ago, my church put forward two sets of plans:
1.) Spent $4.3 (cash on hand) for a new sanctuary.
2.) Double the support to our missions. Also, outfit two vans with the newest ultrsound devices and show young women the children in their wombs, and support them through their pregnancies.
We chose the latter. We have crappy, busted up pews, but there are about 120 more children under five in the world because of the decision.
Report Post »curmudgeon60
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 6:08pmBingo!!! ; > )
Report Post »Jenny Lind
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 11:47pmExcellent choice to be totaly commended.
Report Post »olddog
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:29pmIt’s a great showplace, been to many Christmas pagements there and were spectacular , but way to large to be a church with warmth, basically a giant showplace…I like a church where people know each other, not one where you look for your car in the lot for 2-hours or sit to far away to hear and see the service..
Report Post »Bernard
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:23pmReligion has always included business be it Cathedrals in the West or Temples in the East. But that does not negate the fact that the practice of any faith can be done by each individual.
Report Post »capitalismrocks
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:23pmI like this idea, I would like to see more of a presence by the Catholic church, especially in the era of McMosque’s going up all over the place…
However, here in NY the Arch Diocese has closed quite a few Catholic Schools and several in NJ which truly saddens me. I lived down the street from our Catholic church and school, went to CCD there as I was sent to Public School because we couldn’t afford Catholic School, but I had wished I had gone.
I would like to see the Catholic Diocese work a little harder in keeping open, expanding and increasing its Catholic Schools, kids from private education always score higher and do better then kids from public schools on average, though I was fortunate that my Conservative views and my strong work ethic and entrepreneurial spirit allowed me to excel in my life and career, backed but my Catholic upbringing that taught me that you are an individual and you are responsible for yourself and how you keep your house (meaning yourself, your soul, your ethics) in order… there is no collective salvation, each is judged individually.
Report Post »PASWA
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:39pmActually, the Vatican recently announced they will be looking into the matter of Catholic Churches in the U.S. closing and sending an emissary to the U.S. in the fall. Seems they are quite concerned about it as well.
Report Post »angelcat
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 8:15pmCatholic schools do an amazing job of educating children both morally and academically on little money, proving that it isn’t money that educates a child, it is attitude, parental involvement, the ability to discipline the child. All of those things cost time, energy, and committment to a child – but NOT money.
Report Post »JGraham III
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:16pmThis certainly does little to lay to rest the suspicion that for much of “christianity in America” it is really about big business and not the Gospel. There is not much more hypocritical than a Roman Catholic priest preaching about how poor Jesus was and why we all should emulate Him and then looking at all the $$$ thrown about to buy such a monstrosity as the Crystal Cathedral. Right along side of that is the overweight but oh so nicely dressed mega-church pastor who in his porkiness preaches about the sin of gluttony….
Report Post »I don‘t care what the RC’s do with the money they take from their faithful as they are responsible to God for how it is used, nor do I particularly care what the Crystal Cathedral does with the money they get for their building. I just would like to hear both groups ‘splain how this fits into what James said about taking care of the widows and the orphans… of course I won’t hold my breath.
Ranubis
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:28pmWell said.
Report Post »vennoye
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:51pmIt breaks your heart to think about how many children are starving in the world today!! 1st and 2nd century people met in homes with small numbers attending….were no Pastors or Fathers or Rabbis for the small groups. Think how much money would take care of the needy without building funds, buildings, building maintenance, salaries, etc.
Report Post »TEAlover
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 6:04pmJGRAHAM III said (regarding the Catholic Church spending moeney on the Cathdral): “I just would like to hear both groups ‘splain how this fits into what James said about taking care of the widows and the orphans… of course I won’t hold my breath.”
No need to hold your breath, or be concerned. For your edification, Catholic Charities USA is the second largest social service provider in the United States, surpassed only by the federal government.
Catholic Charities, USA (CCUSA), with headquarters in Alexandria, Virginia, was founded in 1910 as the National Conference of Catholic Charities. In 2010, Catholic Charities’ centennial year, more than 1,700 agencies, institutions and organizations composed the Catholic Charities network – including individual organizations of the dioceses, such as the Archdiocese of Chicago. Nearly 90 cents of every dollar donated to Catholic Charities agencies goes directly to programs and services. In 2008, Catholic Charities agencies served over 8 million individuals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charities
We Catholics sleep well at night knowing that our donated dollars are going to people who need it. But thank you for your concern anyway.
Report Post »conservativewoman
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 6:12pmMy 3 parish priests live in a little duplex next to the church and drive older economy cars.
Report Post »ME
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 6:22pmNo worry the self righteous will ride in and justify anything for the salvation that will only be in there mind. No Church can bring you to God only salvation and it comes free for the asking without any strings of man. I know the church Christ talked about had no pews or doors that is all for mans glory not Gods. The church that spent its money one vans for monograms is one of very few.
Report Post »taskmaster78
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:05pmMaybe they should reduce the pay for their pastor now a multi millionaire.
Report Post »Exrepublisheep
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:15pmThere’s a special place reserved for those who use God to make themeselves rich off the flock.
Report Post »the hawk
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:34pmYeah it’s called the grave ! as shameless as it is.
Report Post »It’s funny that some people believe God Kills indiscrimately but punishes discrimately.
I think Virgin records should buy it and have Rock concerts selling alcohol ect. 3-5 times a week !
buisness as usual !…………………………………………….
but better the cathlics than the Saudi’s………………………..
youshuthehellup
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:02pmwhen can i stop being embarrassed by the catholic church i belong to? i wonder if the bishop asked parishoners if they want to FUND A NEW CATHEDRAL…?! how about pay for some abuse therepy?
Report Post »I love the catholic church but come on?
Fly Old Glory 24/7 365
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:08pmreading the story I was wondering how long it would take before the abuse scandal was mentioned. 2 posts and there it is….I’ll bet this story will be full of abuse comments….
Report Post »Libertyluvnmomma
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:21pmYou can continue to be embarrassed as long as you belong..shutthehellup.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:45pmyoushuthehellup,
You know you should get out of there don’t you? Revelation 18:1-4, 5-24
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:58pmIt has been said that Christ suffered three humiliations: The Incarnation, the crucifixion, and the church.
If he can stand it I guess we can.
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 9:02pm@ISLESFORDIAN – don’t forget the fourth humiliation… The Catholic Church’s “No Child’s Behind Left” program.
- Holy Ghostbuster (recovering Catholic)
Report Post »WMAPAL
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 12:01amSpeaking as a Catholic, I think we’ve all paid enough for theropy………move on.
Report Post »rose-ellen
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 8:09amIf you can’t beat em join em;if this helps brings people into the Church and those who have been lured by protestent evangelization back to Mother Church then kudos.Hope they’re successful.
Report Post »masimo
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 10:01amWhy continue to go to the catholic church then? I was raised a Catholic and now I go to a simple non-denominational church that actually reads from the Bible, verse by verse, chapter by chapter.
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 11:22amWhitefang,
Revelation 18 applies to all false religion, not just the catholic church.
Report Post »BionicBetty27
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 4:01pmFor Masimo:
Report Post »Every Mass in the Catholic Church has two things: The Word of God (3 readings & Psalms every Mass, the whole book in a three year cycle) and the presence of Jesus Christ in the most Holy Eucharist. It’s shame that so many folks who went to Catholic Churches did not learn their faith…. no one would willingly leave the LORD if they recognized His presence. For those who do not recognize him, I invite you to read John Chapter six. Then read it again. And again.
I understand most objections to Catholicism are based on false ideas about what it really is.
Get ‘Answering Objections” by Scott Hahn for a scripturally based defence of the faith. As for defending the actions of those fallen in the church…. we all fall. Some more than others. Real catholics do not put their faith in the people, they put it in the teachings and graces we access in the church. We, who have faith in the Son of God and his salvation which we access by grace – poured out on the cross, should STOP pointing fingers at each other and pray for the world. It is in dire straights right now. It needs us united as His children. God bless you in spite of our failings.
Greenwood
Posted on July 24, 2011 at 6:10pm@BLACKTOOTH…………..yes it refers to all false religion but the catholic church claims to be the mother church…………..so she is the mother of the harlets Rev. 17: 5 And upon her forehead was written a name mystery: Babylon the Great the mother of the harlets………………..( the empire of false religion)
Report Post »Secessionista
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 4:58pmDoesn’t this belong under the heading “stuff we don’t care about”?
Report Post »lorgrom
Posted on July 23, 2011 at 5:18pmThis is no worse then the “freak show” (i.e. Debt Ceiling/Budget talks) going on between El Presidentay and the House!
Report Post »