Church May Sue Wash. State After Gov’t Prevented Baptism in Public Park
- Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:38am by
Billy Hallowell
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Are you ready for another epic church versus state battle royale with the potential to set a national precedent?
Over this past weekend, Reality Church in Olympia, Washington, was hoping to host a simple barbecue and baptismal ceremony. In the end, the state government denied the church’s request to hold the event at Heritage Park — a public space (i.e. government owned) near the state’s Capitol Campus.
Rather than utilizing the park’s 260-acre man-made lake to conduct the water baptismal, Reality Church officials were planning to use a portable baptistery. Regardless, the state’s Department of General Administration (GA) which handles special requests for park use, refused to grant the house of worship permission. As a result, the church is weighing its legal options following the government‘s claim that the intended use of the land would have violated the state’s constitution.
In contrast, the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ), led by attorney Jordan Sekulow, claims that the decision to deny access was morally and legally wrongheaded. In an interview with Fox News Radio, Sekulow said:
“They’re basically saying the barbecue is just fine – but…you can’t baptize anyone…So now you’ve got a state saying this is too much religious activity so it’s not really speech anymore. This violates the U.S. Constitution.”
Heritage Park is located near the Washington State Capitol
In explaining the reasoning behind the state’s refusal, Steve Valandra, a government spokesman, told Fox News Radio the following:
“We approved their permit for the barbecue, but our state constitution does not allow public grounds or funds to be used for religious ceremonies so we got advice from our attorney general’s office and we denied their permit for the baptism.”
Because a baptism is a form of religious worship and exercise, state officials believe that it stands in violation of the law. So, what does the Washington State Constitution say, exactly? According to Fox News, Article One reads:
“No public money shall be appropriated or applied to any religious worship, exercise or instruction, or the support of any religious establishment.”
The regulations on religious displays and events are complex. Brad Shannon of The Olympian writes that the GA no longer allows any private religious displays to be shown inside of Capitol Campus buildings. To clarify, this includes any “indoor religious displays” that are not sponsored by the state of Washington.
This rule was instituted in December 2008 following debate surrounding various religious displays. The Bellingham Herald further explains these incidents, writing that the government “was caught in [a] church-state controversy over the display of atheist signs near a nativity and a menorah inside the Capitol.” By issuing harsher regulations, the state may be hoping to avoid similar issues in the future.
However, Washington’s restriction of this most recent event does seem, to a degree, contradictory considering past allowances. Shannon explains:
But GA has allowed other events that carried at least a patina of religious exercise, if not the appearance of worship, near the Capitol. One was a mid-July 2009 prayer rally near the campus’ Tivoli Fountain that drew Gov. Chris Gregoire, Auditor Brian Sontagg, a few legislators, and several hundred other participants.
Considering these facts, a court battle may actually lead to some clarity on exactly what is and is not considered acceptable behavior on government land. Currently, a final decision regarding next legal steps has yet to be made. Sekulow claims that the church will ultimately decide whether the case deserves its day in court. The end result holds the potential to set national precedent.
Despite Sekulow’s belief that the church is correct in its assertion that the baptism should have been allowed, the state, too, believes it stands on firm constitutional — and legal — grounds.
(h/t Fox News)
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Comments (102)
affinnity
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 11:05amThis is why most denominations in my state own private camp grounds.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 11:21amThe 1st amendment says government shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion OR PROHIBIT THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.
Report Post »Sounds like someone just made a law prohibiting religion……
The church not only has a case it is a slam dunk case. I notice the atheist at the aclu are sitting this one out….Good because help from Satan is like endorsing Satan.
turkey13
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 12:04pmI guess I’m in trouble too. The Church of Christ I’m a member of uses a local lake to baptize those that have come forward confessing their sins!
Report Post »JGraham III
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 2:19pmWho is surprised? They don’t call Washington the Soviet State of Washington for nothing. Never met a democrat they didn’t like: why look at who is on the bogus “supercommittee”..none other than the Tennis Shoe Mom aka Patty Murray. She is Harry Reid’s favorite lapdog. Reality Church should go ahead and do it anyway and tell the fools in Olympia to arrest all of them if they have the testicular fortitude to do it. I’d love to see the firestorm that would erupt over Olympia because of that. The Church better grow a pair and start standing up to the cowardly left before they get too much power. Take what Elijah the prophet said to his fearful aide when confronted by the Syrian army “there be more with us than be with them”. Remember that!
Report Post »mycomet123
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:59amWhat’s next? The streets are public property, I suppose christians will not be able to picket anything that’s against christianity. You know they can have parades on public streets for whatever anti-God agenda they want but God forbid it has anything to do with standing up for God. There seems to be only a one way street out there now & it leads to hell.
Report Post »Wishkah
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 11:59amwhen the hell are people going to learn what separation of church and state actually means??
Report Post »BJC
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 12:44pmI don‘t guess they consider it seperation of church and state when they allow the Muslims in Michigan and other states to take over the school cafeteria’s for hours so the Muslims can hold their prayers? I would use this example in my court case.
Report Post »mycomet123
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 2:20pmWISHKAH, I think you’ll find the answer to your question within your question–IN HELL!!
Report Post »The-Monk
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:57pm@Wishkah
Report Post »Please show me exactly where the words, “Separation of Church and State” appear in the Constitution or The Declaration of Independence. It’s an interpretation that progressives have been using for decades. Show me, please! I’m waiting.
The-Monk
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:42pm@Wishkah
Report Post »I’m still waiting…. Are you reading The Constitution yet?
jerrygar
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:57amThe left wing nut jobs moved up here from CA. a long time ago. This is the result.
Report Post »HorseCrazy
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 11:18amyes this state of mine has been completely ruined. I watch my property taxes skyrocket and keep dreaming of moving my business to our lovely next door neighbor, Idaho.
Report Post »ressex
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 2:38pm@ jerrygar
I don’t have a problem with you refering to the ******** from CA, but don’t assume all or even most of CA is full of ********. I grew up in CA and live here again (I’ve lived in WA too…) and I met more ******** in WA that I have met in CA. There is a high concentration of ******** in SF and the bay area, the north coastal area (hippies), LA, and San Diego. The entire rest of the state (and we’re talking a HUGH area) is largely conservative. I work in the capital for the state, and most of the people I know here are conservative. I’ve only met a few ********, and boy are they dumb and narrow minded. …anyway…
the 1st amendment…
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
What part of this is NOT CRYSTAL CLEAR? WA is going to lose this one in severe fashion, or there needs to be an immediate removal of a judge from the bench, and removal of public officials for passing that law or “guideline” that they are spewing.
ps – and why is BO still in office??? Why can he break laws and go on unchallenged? WHERE IS YOUR SPINE CONGRESS?????????????? Wussies!!!! Yea, I said WUSSIES…!!! Tom McClintock is awesome but what do you need to get an impeachment going??? Get started NOW!!!!!
Report Post »evilhatemonger
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:51amSo for the state to be theoretically compliant to the first amendment, it must crap on the first amendment rights of others?
Report Post »barackem
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:48amAs the government keeps taking over more and more of our lives, expropriating more and more of our land, owning more and more of our mortgages, running more and more of our economy through the Washington sewer, soon we will be told how to pray and who to pray to, most likely whoever our great leader happens to be. People had better wake up soon because we are almost at the tipping point when we have no say left at all.
Report Post »thegreatcarnac
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:39amIf the Muslims wanted to have a foot-washing ceremony in the river…the gov’t would have said nothing.Chistians need to block-vote and get rid of government officials which are prejudicial towards them. If that does not work…then…we must do some things more drastic.
Report Post »oneopin
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:31amOne day that 15 panel healthcare commission will be banning prayer on our death bed.
Report Post »letonagasi
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:56amEvery year in St Louis Mo we hold the STL Pagan Picnic .Now some would call this a heathen fest but its still a church picnic.The city loves having the picnic because the park looks better after the picnic. The park folks tell us that after Pride fest and Earth day the park always looks like heck.They told us that they always trash the park out.Seems to me no matter what religion you are we “people who believe in a higher power”take care of ourselves.Hey Goverment get out of our way and let us worship!!!
Report Post »azsmitty
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:56amGee, do you think DOJ and Holder will file suit against Washington State for usurping what is clearly a Federal issue? I mean what part of “Congress shall make no law establishing a religon or the free excercise thereof” is so hard for Washington State to understand………..they cannot set up a religon but they cannot restrict the excercise of religon. Religous people pay taxes as well as non-religous people, to give access to public facilities for events sponsored by non-religous entities but deny the same access because of religon would be unconstitutional under the equal protection clause of the constitution. This could turn the athiests arguments on it ear.
Report Post »momsense
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:49amSomeone should remind them that the second part of the establishment clause is ” or prevent the free exercise thereof. “
Report Post »Centralsville
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:46amI would not want to be baptized in a public place in a left-wing state like Washington.
Report Post »DonnaA
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:22amStand for what you believe in! Sue the crap out of those thugs!!!
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:22amif this was a muslim group, the state of WA would have BOWED DOWN and done whatever they wanted and more….
Report Post »bullcrapbuster
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:21amObama has zero chance of being re-elected. He will probably bow out before the election and the dog will step in. Many of the folks that “somewhat approve” of his performance will not vote for Obama. Many will probably just stay home and not vote.
Report Post »philipzhao
Posted on August 27, 2011 at 9:08pmIn 2012, a vote for Obama will be a vote for America’s destruction !
Report Post »JLGunner
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:20amMuslims can dropped a towel on the ground and pray away, but we can’t splash a little water on some kids head?
Report Post »RepubliCorp
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:14amI guess I wont be Sacrificing my goat there. I know I am going to catch it but I agree with the state on this one.
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:36amBut yeah no way will you ever be able to sacrifice an animal. Nude PETA people would stop you in a heart beat.
Report Post »2ndrevolution
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 11:44amSo you don’t believe in the Constitution??
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for redress of grievances.”
Another invertebrate. People like you are why America, as it was founded, is being destroyed by the left.
You either believe in the Constitution or you don’t.
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:13amWA State is the darkest state in the Union.
This Present Darkness by Peretti is pretty much about life on Vashon Island WA.
Report Post »mattmo79
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:12amSince when does our constitutional right for religous freedom break any laws. More facist progressive liberal B.S.!
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:27amWell stated. Clear, concise and cogent.
Report Post »pinnybogg
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:56amIf this is against the laws, then why are prayer mats and an area provided for Muslim prayers at the White House and other Govt buildings??????????????????????? Even on the streets of New York!!!!!!!!
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:17amThe 1st amendment says government shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion OR PROHIBIT THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.
Report Post »Sounds like someone just made a law prohibiting religion……
The church not only has a case it is a slam dunk case
momsense
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:52amWhen I taught in a tax payer supported Public school system rooms were set aside for Muslim students to pray during Ramadan, yet there can be no manifesttion of any other religions present.
Report Post »Leader1776
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:51amRemember, the governments (State, Local, Fed) are acting they way they are because of the fear of ACLU law suits. If they start being sued by the other side of the issue they will likely be forced to read and understand the constitution before acting. Situations like this story won’t happen again.
Also, @WILLNOTBACKDOWN, the ACLU are not hypocrites. They know exactly what they’re doing. That is, to actually redefine the Constitution on their terms. This is a prime example.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:23amvery true, its why the ACLU defends NAMBLA….
Report Post »GabeTheGreat
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:44amYou need to look at it from the other foot as well. Would it be ok for all religions to start doing their ceremonies on public grounds? we cannot be partial to any of them, and in america, religion is a private matter and must not be brought into political affairs. The state is right on this one. (very rare, i know)
Report Post »MidWestMom
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:55amI agree. What is allowed to one must be allowed to others. But I‘m betting they wouldn’t do this if it was a marriage service, conducted by a minister, for a gay couple. They would be too afraid of the protests.
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:25amHow would the state be supporting/promoting one religion over another by allowing a simple baptism? It’s not like the state is not prohibiting other religions to do what they would want to do on the same piece of “public property”. But that is what they will do now or should do. Not allow any religious ceremony of any faith on any public property…yeah there ya go that’s what America is about, eh? NOT! So much for freedom of religion, eh?
They allow Christian Marriage Ceremonies at Point Defiance Park in Tacoma…
Typical liberal bureaucrat got his panties in a bunch and doesn’t know boo about squat and creates a mess. What’s new in wa state anyhoo. Same stuff different day in the darkest state of the union.
Report Post »willnotbackdown
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:34amAlways remember the American communist loony assc. (aclu) and the goverment are hipocrites. They beleive they are allowed to force religions to violate their tenants but religon should not be allowed to infuance they (unless it is Islam and sharia law).
Report Post »MidWestMom
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:52amWonder if the city would do the same if it was a gay marriage ceremony conducted by a minister? Doubtful.
Report Post »AllAmericanGirl22
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:31amSue! Get big Government out of my business!
Report Post »BBReggie
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:27amThe US Constitution is very clear on this subject. Congress can make no law regarding the establishment of religion OR restricting the free exercise thereof. This clearly violates the free exercise clause. Of the other hand, perhaps states and local governments can do so.
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:31amState can’t trump federal law…they can if many states challenge the federal law and win in the courts or by putting it to a vote of all states. Much like what is going on with the HC law.
Report Post »AlansTigg
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:00amstates were allowed to make their own religions and most originally had them, it’s not trumping federal law…it’s only the feds who are restricted
Report Post »txbigfoot
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:07amSue them.
Sent by: Retired Vice Admiral Bob Scarborough of Arlington, VA .
“I wanted to give you all some disturbing information on our wonderful president
I work with the Catch-A-Dream Foundation, which provides hunting and fishing trips to children with life-threatening illnesses.
This past weekend we had our annual banquet/fundraiser event in Starkville.
As a part of our program, we had scheduled Sgt. 1st Class Greg Stube to come; he’s a highly decorated U. S. Army Green Beret and inspirational speaker who was severely injured while deployed overseas and didn’t have much of a chance for survival.
Greg is stationed at Ft. Bragg, NC and received permission from his commanding officer to come speak at our function.
Everything was on go until Obama made a policy that NO U. S. SERVICEMAN CAN SPEAK AT ANY FAITH-BASED PUBLIC EVENTS ANYMORE. Needless to say, Greg had to cancel his speaking event with us. Didn’t know if anyone else was aware of this new policy.
You’re just starting to see the Obamanation.
This is just how the Nazis did it in the 1930s — slowly, one step at a time.
This should be forwarded to everyone regardless of party affiliation!
We have lost 50% of our freedom of speech in the last 2 years. The new media is not allowed to print anything negative about this evil Obama.
ARE YOU STILL GOING TO REELECT HIM?
Report Post »1776jazzycat
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:18amI plan to vote for anybody but Obama. However, this story is false, check it out on Snopes.
Report Post »Shiroi Raion
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:24amThis new law violates both freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Obama thinks he’s a dictator or a god. I’m an Atheist, but I still agree with you in this as evil. I’m not one of those crazy religion haters. I’m simply uninvolved and uninterested in religion. I am, however, interested in keeping America free and equal under the law, keeping government under control, upholding The Constitution, and maintaining America’s history.
Report Post »For our government to tell you that you that you cannot speak of what you believe in. It’s truly evil.
You know… if they can tell you that you cannot speak of God in public, then I would argue that Atheists cannot speak of their disbelief as well, and that would include in schools. You cannot have laws specifically for discriminating against people for what they believe or don’t believe. It’s unequal justice.
The entire “separation of church and state” issue should be taken back to the Supreme Court because we know without a doubt that they got it backwards last time. David Barton could explain it so even those robed Liberal fools could understand.
Shiroi Raion
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:27amOh it’s false. Wow. I got duped. With all the BS the Liberals have pulled, I wouldn’t have put it past them to do this.
Report Post »Ron_WA
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 3:45amAre you sure about that? The previous policy has been that no service member may speak in uniform or in an official duty status as a formal representative of the US military at religious or political events but it’s fine to do it as a private citizen while off duty & not in uniform.
Report Post »