Citizens Sue to Stop ‘Lord’s Prayer’ Recitation at Delaware County Council Meetings
- Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:19pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Intense debate over the presence of prayers in the public square — especially Christian ones — is nothing new. In recent weeks, we‘ve covered a teen atheist’s successful campaign to ban a prayer mural in a Rhode Island public high school. Now, there’s another battle brewing in Wilmington, Delaware, over recitation of the Lord’s Prayer at public meetings.
On Wednesday, a hearing was held in a lawsuit that aims to stop the Sussex County Council from reciting the well-known prayer before each meeting. Interestingly, much of the argument is centered around whether or not the prayer is explicitly Christian. The county’s attorney, J. Scott Shannon, argues that the prayer is generic and, thus, doesn’t favor any particular faith. The plaintiffs, of course, disagree.
The council has been reciting the Lord’s Prayer at the beginning of each Tuesday morning meeting for the past 41 years. The action, according to The News Journal, has been taken under both Democratic and Republican majorities.
But four residents are asking U.S. District Court Judge Leonard P. Stark to rule that this action violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment. Americans United for Separation of Church and State (AUSCS), a church-state separatist group, is defending the four citizens who would like to see the recitation ruled unconstitutional.
“It affiliates the county government with one single faith — Christianity — and sends a message to the county residents that their county government favors one religion,” said Alex Luchenitser, an attorney for AUSCS. ”The way this prayer is recited has many hallmarks of a religious exercise.”
The county, though, disagrees and is asking the judge to throw the case out. Attorneys for the council believe that a 1983 ruling — March v. Chambers — provides a foundation that defend‘s the use of the Lord’s Prayer. In the ruling, it was found that a government-funded chaplain in Nebraska was constitutionally able to say a prayer before legislative sessions.
“It is not required that a prayer be inoffensive to all or that it be all-inclusive,” Shannon argued, going on to claim that Jesus Christ — a Jew — had originally uttered the prayer. ”(Jesus) was not offering a Christian prayer in the Christian tradition because no Christian tradition existed,” Shannon continues.
The prayer, as you be know, can be found in Matthew 6:9-13:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.’
“I’m afraid you all might have brought me a difficult case because there is no reference to Jesus or Allah” [in the Lord's prayer] Stark said.
There’s no telling what the timeframe on the case will be, as the prayer doesn’t mention, explicitly, Jesus or a specific concept of God. That being said, it did originate, as Luchenitser noted, in the Bible.
(H/T: The News Journal via USA Today)
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Comments (189)
Black Manta
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:56pmFools can’t speak on behalf of Jesus..Jesus and allah don’t compare..You know nothing of the prayer cause you don’t know God…As far as reference the prayer does refer to Jesus, if you knew Jesus, you would know that he is God but, I don’t expect the ignorant to know anything…Jesus died and rose again on the 3rd day which is known as Easter..muhamid is still in his grave…so how can he save you if he couldn’t save his self…I will pray for the lost and it is sooooo many of humans that are lost…Jesus is our Lord and Saviour…
Report Post »ShowLowRuss
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:26pmAmen, Black Manta you are exactly correct!
Report Post »singleparent
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:51pmJust hand the judge a copy of the constitution and a yellow marker and have him show the court where it say’s sepperation of church and state…..The End.
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:57pmSomebody is underwriting these people and there ought to be a counter suit. Follow the money!
Report Post »LastChanceToSaveOurRepublic
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 7:16pmI just found out a few nights ago that this is one of the communist party’s objectives.
Here is the list see #28
Report Post »http://www.rense.com/general32/americ.htm
onejimharris
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 9:57pmYesssssssssssssssssssssssssss Amen Brother In Christ !!
Report Post »since we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained; and since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered, perhaps, as deeply, as finally, staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people. George Washington swearing in with his hand on the Holy Bible
StonyBurk
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 7:00amI agree BM — Only add I will pray our Government(Courts included) will wake up as bone weary of the Unconstitutional fraud this endorsement test–or any other test of logical skill or metaphysical refinement intended to squeeze form the text whatever meaning is desired-other than that seen in the terms used.
Report Post »It time our Government stops trying to dictate the content of prayer or public display for that matter.
I was not born in Nazi Germany– Nor Lenin’s USSR.And I am sick of those who insist America must reflect either.
its_time_to_arrest_our_government
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 4:16pmits long past time for us to stop turning the other cheek and defend ourselves for what we know is right. the left is counting on us to not defend ourselves and our rights. enough is enough even our founders had had enough when they turned on king george. the time has come to turn on king obutthead.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 20, 2012 at 7:47pmAmen. Jesus have mercy on our souls.
Report Post »ARSILHOUETTE
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:55pmThey have been reciting this at every meeting for 41 years, and now it’s unconstitutional? How long have these 4 people lived in this town? Sounds like a set up to me. As for what version they use, I checked all 5 bibles in my house and found 4 different variations but they all mean the same thing.
Report Post »turkey13
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:05pmMan where have you been. These 4 people are Americans – they can be just passing thru and if offended it must stop. It can be anyone – even the KKK or a foreign exchange student – it just took 41 years for the county to be caught.
Report Post »ARSILHOUETTE
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:34pmSo you are saying if someone passing your car parked at a public buliding was offended by a bumper sticker you have, you feel they have the right to tell you to take it off? This political correctness is getting out of hand. What next? I have to take down the cross in my window because it offends the athest across the street?
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 6:07pm@turkey13
If offended, it must stop?!?!
Which amendment guarantees the right to not be offended? Was that the 3 3/4 amendment? City officials shall never behave in a manner offensive to any other American…
What in the world are you doing expressing any other thought than, “Can I have another beer” or “Here’re your fries, sir!”?
Report Post »lanurse1
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 8:28pmI have a “In God We Trust” stamp that I stamp on every envelope sent through the US mail~~I urge you all to do the same~~Let them try to separate that and the US post office will go out of business~~
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 1:05am@turkey13 Most of these judicial opinions favoring secularism, Marxism, or atheism date back to about 60 years. They have never used any historical facts or evidence to support their theories. 400 years in America, and not one shred of support can be found to promote secularism, Marxism or atheism as public policy.
Report Post »woodyb
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:54pmThat has become the n ew American way — let four people dictate what the city council does!!!!!!!!!
The inmates are running the asylum!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »kevin
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:52pmlook at these GODLESS freaks they feel the need to shutdown religion to further their own agendas hanging out on websites such as these to espouse theyre hatred and anti semitism if you dont agree with whats being said why hangout? your agenda must be to make everyone as equally unhappy as you are the day is coming your eyes will be open and youll beg forgiveness
Report Post »OutOfTheAether
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 7:23pmIs it just me, or does it seem that the Atheists are coming out of the woodwork and getting bolder about imposing (or dictating, if you will) their secular brand of religion on the rest of us? And it is a religion, just one without God in it.
Report Post »RossPoldark
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 4:34amI would sue atheist for denying me my freedom of speech, and I would tie them up in court with extensive litigation. Give the idiots a dose of their own medicine.
Report Post »Miami
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:47pmIt’s about time Conservative fight back to defend their rights, Liberal Progressives have been doing this for a hundred years. Manipulating our legal system to change the meaning of constitutional intent and our history. Without any push back, the threat of the ACLU has pressured changes, out of fear of the cost of fighting charges. In each case giving up a bit of freedom too where we stand to day…!
Report Post »justangry
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:44pmWe all know how the court is going to come down on this one. Why take tax payer money and put it in the pockets of lawyers?
Report Post »Miami
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:51pmRemember the Judges need to be reelected…lol
All lower Judges should be elected thus reflecting their communities
Report Post »justangry
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:14pmFair enough.
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 7:18pm@ MIAMI – It’s a federal judge. They are appointed for life.
Report Post »OutOfTheAether
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 7:25pmAll the more reason to get that changed!
Report Post »Miami
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 9:31pmholy ghostbuster
That was the“ L”aughing “O”ut “L”oud
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:43pmI like my bicycle to much to worry about driving a car. Yes, i will but I love the feeling of being free.
Report Post »rockEy47
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:42pmThe Constitution of The United States does not prohibit prayer any where or any place in the Our country. The second amendment prohibits the designation of a national religion. In other words the citizens cannot be compelled to, perhaps , belong to the presidents religion. This was the practice under the leadership of a king. Religious activity cannot be restricted. The concept of seperation of church and state as it is now understood is contrary to the second amendment. This is an example judicial activism as practiced by the Supreme Court, whih I believe should be reverces!
Report Post »ranchoazulmt
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:49pmYou hit this right on the head! We do not get that famous “Giant wall of seperation of Church and State” until we read Thomas Jeffersons letter and take it out of context. We really need to practice jury nullification around here to keeep the Judiciary branch under control. The Supreme Court is not the final say in legal matters, we are!!!
Report Post »jaylew
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:50pmYou are spot on. This is all just more re-defining of reality that progressives especially skeptic ones….try to foist on the generally uninformed public. We notice however don’t we….how each and every one of these prayer haters gladly spend every single United States dollar bill they get their grubby sweaty clammy hands on…even though each one of those bills state “In God We Trust”. What a bunch of phony gas bags they all are. If it wasn’t so pathetic…it would be hilarious.
Report Post »I.Gaspar
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:52pmYou are 100% correct.
Report Post »The activist judges should be tarred and feathered and run out of town.
Every last progressive MUST be voted out and only then do we have a chance of having our country back.
DMan70
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 5:46pm@Rock
I believe you are referring to the ‘First’ Amendment. But I do agree with you nonetheless.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 20, 2012 at 7:53pmFour score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
…
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate — we can not consecrate — we can not hallow — this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion — that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain — that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
May the government of the people, by the people, for the people — including their religious convictions — NEVER perish from the earth!
Report Post »thestan65
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:39pm…it never ends……let everyone one pray who wants to pray…….please GOD PRAY FOR THE NON BELIEVERS>>>>>>…….
Report Post »This_Individual
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 6:19pmSettle down, many of us “non-believers” don‘t mind just sitting there respecfully while y’all pray.
Report Post »Although, if I’m required to pray along with you, there might be a problem.
COFemale
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 6:55pmThis, I agree if you don‘t want to pray don’t. I am not going to point you out and say he/she didn’t pray. I went with a friend to her Catholic church, at the time I identified as Presbyterian. Out of respect, I knelt down on the board and prayed when she did. The bottom line is you don’t have to agree, but don’t disrespect me by forbidding me to exercise my beliefs.
Report Post »Sergei
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:37pmI agree… so as not to offend anyone, there will someone repressenting 33 different faiths at the next coucil meeting. The meeting begins at 7 pm and by the time all prayers for all represented faiths are complete we will begin with the county’s affairs at say, oh I don’t know, 11:46 p.m…. what crap.
“The highest glory of the American Revolution was, it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” – John Quincy Adams
Report Post »TheJeffersonian
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 11:54pmThat’s actually a famously fake quotation. John Quincy Adams never said that. The words were actually written by John Wingate Thornton, and were part of his introduction to a collection of American revolutionary-era sermons published in 1860 and though he attributed that general sentiment to Adams, he did not quote him as having said that, nor did he provide a source for the supposed quotation.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 1:09amThat religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other. – VA Declaration of Rights 1776
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. – John Adams
Finally, let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers were brought hither by their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate its principles with the elements of their society, and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political, or literary. – Daniel Webster
Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments. – Charles Carroll
God and America http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/america.html
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 1:21amThe General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country. – George Washington
I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. – Benjamin Franklin
We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better that the builders of Babel. – James Madison’s notes of the Constitutional Convention
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 1:29amRead it and weep: http://www.pilgrimhall.org/ThanxProc1789.htm
Report Post »gmoneytx
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:36pmI am so sick of this, can’t people just leave well enough alone, if they want to have prayer they should get to do what they want…the rest can go straight to HE!!
Report Post »JRook
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:36pmIf the Lords prayer is in fact a universal prayer, then God must represent all religions. If he represents all religions than one could not claim a superior position or stature. Other than that made up or claimed by that religion through their writings or influence.
dmforman
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:47pmThose fighting Christianity don’t want any religion in our government, schools, etc. They are slowly stripping away religion to get the America that they want. Religion has no place in Socialism/Marxist ideals.
Report Post »ranchoazulmt
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:56pmReligion is always the first thing taken away when transitioning to a authoritarian style government. With religiuos freedom, people still have hope and that can be a dangerous thing when you want the sheeple to follow you off a cliff!
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:03pm@ranchoazulmt
Report Post »No body is coming for your religious freedom, they are just continuing to build that wall of seperation that is enshrined in the Constitution. They are just making sure that the establishment clause is enforced. Pray until your little head pops off, just don’t have a government body, created to serve ALL the people do it.
booger71
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:40pmNo body is coming for your religious freedom, they are just continuing to build that wall of seperation that is enshrined in the Constitution.
Report Post »—————————————————-
Still looking for that wall of separation in the Constitution
holy ghostbuster
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 7:24pm@ BOOGER71 – I‘ll bet you don’t read your bible as literally as you do the Constitution. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.“ Establishment of religion is where the ”establishment clause” comes from and has been interpreted by the courts to mean a separation of church and state.
Report Post »maroon67
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:33pmAfter reading the messages from this yesterday, why would you even question the ‘Lord’s Prayer’?
http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:41pmCause its the right thing to do, its a clear violation of the Establishment Clause,
1) the Our Father, is clearly Christian and excludes all other religions;
2) the version they are using is from teh King James Bible, and different from the Catholic version of the pray, the counsel is choosing which sect of Christianity to endorse;
3) ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE PERIOD
Report Post »qpwillie
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:52pm@encinom
The constitution says nothing about saying a prayer at county council meetings. It addresses CONGRESS making laws.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:04pm14th Amendment incorporates the Bill of Rights to the States and the various State sub-dividions (i.e. Countys). Learn basic civics before you comment.
Report Post »booger71
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:52pmThe 14 Amendment does not say anything in respect to counties. Good try, try again later
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 5:59pm@Booger, when you finally pass High School civics post it, till then your screen name fits. Try reading the 150 years of 14th Amendment jurispurdence before you prove you are an a$$.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 7:03pmNO it is not Encinom. You are not comprehending what you read. Separation of church and state does not exist in the Constitution. It says the Federal government can’t establish a state religion. it says it can’t pass a law to block the free exercise thereof. Where in the Constitution does it call out specifically government employees are banned from exercising their 1st Amendment. I guess you failed reading comprehension in school didn’t you?
You and your Liberal cretins are twisting the what the Constitution says to suit your own agenda. So in other words you are big fat LIARS.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 7:18pm@COFemale,
A Government official can not take an actions that would appear to be endorsing one religion over another, in his official duties. A Counsel man at home, in private life can pray until eyes bleed, when he is acting on behalf of the people in an official capacity, he is bound by the Establishment Clause. Clerks in New York State can not deny marriage licesnes to gay couples, regardless of their religious beliefs, cause while acting in the employment they are representing the State.
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 7:31pm@ QPWILLIE – If the 1st Amendment only that Congress shall make no law…, then would you favor a city council passing an ordinance that you could not display your presidential candidate’s bumper sticker on your car while traveling through their town or banning a newspaper article unfavorable to that city council? After all, the 1st Amendment only states what Congress can not do. Right? If you take that position with respect to religion, then you must take the same position with respect to free speech and freedom of the press.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 12:51am@encinom IMO, based on research and study, the 14th amendment has been misused, abused, and taken advantage of in order to apply to it an interpretation or meaning it was never intended to support or promote. This has distorted its original and sole intent for the purpose of continuing the radical and progressive change in our form of Government. It has been liberally and corruptly used and implemented to change our traditions and society’s culture. That has happened, whether you agree or disagree with the change. The fourteenth Amendment to an extent has enforced Nationalism, and opposed Federalism. Our founding fathers established a union of republican states, and desired to avoid any form of centralized or absolute National Government. See the ninth and tenth amendments.
Report Post »Ronko
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:32pmThis really ticks me off, only 4 people object and the prayer lasta only a minute. I hope this gets thrown out.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:32pmLiberals don’t understand freedom, and liberal judges don’t respect the constitutions.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:41pmConservatives don’t care for or about the Constitution.
Report Post »EarthtoMel
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:47pmConservatives most certainly DO care…..the liberals have ruined this country.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:53pmWe are as a country are like a married couple that hate each other. We reach the point of irreconcilable differences there’s no more give and take they keep taking and rghe federal judges keep giving. It’s time to divorce the atheist from our nation. Run out on a rail Carry their butt to south American drop them off if they poke their heads over the border blow it off.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:57pmencinom please stop projecting, it doesn’t work, never has, just makes you look even less bright, if that is possible, and a bigger liar than you actually are.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:06pmsmithclar3nc3
Report Post »Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:53pm
We are as a country are like a married couple that hate each other. We reach the point of irreconcilable differences there’s no more give and take they keep taking and rghe federal judges keep giving. It’s time to divorce the atheist from our nation. Run out on a rail Carry their butt to south American drop them off if they poke their heads over the border blow it off.
__________________
But you Religious Conservatives are not facists and love the Constitution. Looks like you have no idea what liberty is, just another Facist wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
binge_thinker
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 11:16pmWestern nations and Western Civilization have produced more liberty and more prosperity for more people than any other culture in History. Christianity is the foundation of the culture upon which Western civilization was built. A genuinely Christian populace will reject collectivism and support individualism. A genuine Christian populace will live moral lives and thus they will support governmental policy that encourages individual, personal, moral responsibility. A genuine Christian populace will reject collectivism and centralized government. A morally debauched populace will look to the government to support them and shelter them from their bad moral choices. Thus for the collectivist Liberal bent on imposing socialism upon a nation, Christianity is the number one enemy above all other enemies. Christianity must be eliminated.
Liberals are dangerous and destructive people.
Report Post »Rebecca Olesen
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 6:12amThis is at ENCINOM – dude your 2nd reply to swampy is idiotic, in that you are commenting a reply to someone else, for one thing.
Secondly, Obama is the one who goes against the constitution with complete and blatant disregard at every turn, states that the constitution is faulty, etc. Funny that I am a conservative, and yet I don’t want to force my views on anybody, i just want to be left alone and am finding that more and more impossible as so called LIBERAL (read: FASCISTS) keep telling me what I can say, where I can say it, and making ‘hate’ a crime (but only for SOME people and not others). Isn’t all crime hate? Don’t you feel that someone must hate another person to beat them to death, regardless of whether or not they are the same or different race? Why does a white man get a greater sentence for attacking a black man when the #1 cause of death for black males in america is homicide at the hands of other black males?
Why do I have to give a **** about gay marriage? Why are the rights of others more important than mine? I want to be able to say what I think and not be told by worthless sacks such as yourself that my beliefs or thoughts are a ‘crime’ or that religion is for ‘loonies’ – I don’t care what the hell you believe in, as long as you believe in leaving me the hell alone.
I don’t attack others, I defend myself against people who claim they are ‘anti-fascists’ and yet terrorize and physically attack people who disagree with them, jus
Report Post »Troll Patrol
Posted on January 20, 2012 at 3:50am@Encinom
Troll Patrol is advising readers to ignore you!
Troll: one who posts a deliberately provocative, false or misleading comment with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.
Tempus fugit.
Report Post »lisa2994
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:31pmThe famine of the end times is not for bread it is for the word of GOD… Seeing prophecy come true! But I know who wins in the end.. ;)
Report Post »Krazy_Kreepy_Ketchup
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:37pmAmen to that
Report Post »Faith1029
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:10pmLISA: “The famine of the end times is not for bread it is for the word of GOD… Seeing prophecy come true! But I know who wins in the end.. ;)”
All the more reason for us to read the Bible and get it in our hearts and minds before they come to take the Bibles away.
Report Post »Krazy_Kreepy_Ketchup
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:31pmNot to get off subject (YET as we will all be muslims or dhimmi’s if this carrys on)
A WHITE amle was beaten to death the other night in front of the Liberty Bell Plaza in Philadelphia. The mayor, today announced a reward for suspects as there were MANY witnesses. The problem…
You cannot find a description of the assailants anywhere. Why? because it was scrubbed. The assailants are MIDDLE EASTERN.
CAIR would say what about this?
Anyway, they cant hide everything. Here is the original article thanks to creepingsharia.
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2012/01/18/police-seek-middle-eastern-males-in-fatal-philly-beating/
From the article:
Report Post »“The description of the suspects at the end of this article was omitted from the accompanying video on CBS Philly’s website. via Police Continue To Investigate Fatal Old City Beating, Mayor Nutter Offers Condolences « CBS Philly”
GreatGu
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:31pmFour people against the majority. If this goes through, it will set a precedent to outlaw the Bible.
Report Post »pamela kay
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:40pmGREATGU, You are so right. I am so tired of this. God be with us, we need you now more than ever Lord.
Report Post »ReynMansson
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 7:18pmYou think we’ll be that lucky?
Report Post »TheJeffersonian
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 11:59pmThis is a standard enactment of the establishment clause set set forth in the 1st amendment. It’s a huge reach to suggest that keeping the local government from endorsing one religion will precipitate an elimination of the right to practice religion freely. This IS a preservation of freedom of religion, in that it keeps Christian council members from using government time and money to practice their religion. In no way does that threaten their ability to practice their religion on their own time.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 1:25am@TheJeffersonian What law was passed by the Council to establish any form of religion? Heck, them picking their noses, talking on the their phones, looking out the window, daydreaming, combing their hair, buying $300 leather seats, and talking about the weather is A BIGGER WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY, than humbly seeking God’s protection and blessings.
Report Post »TheJeffersonian
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 12:00pm@Colt
The word “law” doesn’t even appear in my first response, so I don’t see why you felt it necessary to suppose it did as part of my argument. Lovely straw man you’ve got there. And as to your claim it’s not the biggest waste of time for the council… Irrelevant to the fact that it IS a waste of time, and should be eliminated. If they want to hold an all-inclusive, non-denominational prayer, that would be fine according to the laws of our country. But to use an explicitly Christian prayer for a government agency is tantamount to endorsing Christianity.
I wonder how you’d feel if the council were performing Muslim prayers every day and it were a Christian council member asking that they stop.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 21, 2012 at 6:27am@TheJeffersonian I’m okay with it being a Christian prayer. And heck, Christian prayers used to be okay in this country for more than 300 years, before the Liberals and Marxists took over, about 60+ years ago. The Muslim religion and faith never had any great or minimal influence on the lives of the American people, nor did our founding fathers ever consider Muslim principles when establishing our Nation. It was the Protestant Christian faith which most influenced and guided colonial Americans.
Even Thomas Jefferson when authoring the Declaration of Rights for Virginia in 1776, knew that it was our Christian faith which allowed us to be free and to tolerate those of other beliefs:
Sec. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:29pmthat filthy animal obama has encouraged the very dregs of his communist party to crawl out of his rear end to revile ALL of America’s traditions and Judeo-Christian foundation.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:38pmQuite a detailed picture you paint sir.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:27pmI wonder what percentage of American teenagers could recite the Lord’s Prayer from memory at this point. I‘m guessing that it’s shockingly small. Sad times we live in.
Report Post »nomnomnom
Posted on January 19, 2012 at 7:06pmDoes it matter to anyone else but you? Aren’t people free to believe in whatever they want? Or should they be forced to believe like you?
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:27pmit will be even more interesting to see if those 4 atheists are still around Delaware OR in America in the next year.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:26pmThe U.S congress starts each session with a prayer so what’s the deal with this rinky dink town?
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:40pmSlayer, not sure that’s such a good argument. I mean look at the results we get from congress.
Report Post »Nobar
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:25pmFather forgive them, for they know not what they do.
Report Post »ReynMansson
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 7:21pmSure we do and my dad’s dead. He was an life-long atheist as were his parents and grandparents, all part of the Freethinker movement in Europe in early 1800s
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:25pmwill be interesting how the judge rules, and if he is still in America, or breathing, in 2013. a lot of those obamacommunist anti-America judges who have ruled against AMERICA & AMERICANS should be half-packed by now for when they have to flee to their obamacommunist safe houses overseas.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:23pmPersonally I feel others should respect the different faiths people follow. I feel their should be a prayer for everyone; not just one from Christianity. Something that will blend well with all faiths and secular views.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:28pmI bet you have one of those coexist bumper stickers on your Prius.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:34pmNo, I do not know how to drive and would never purchase one of those stickers.
Report Post »-KACK-
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:37pmsounds like faithist bigotry to me.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:39pmWell, maybe someday, huh?
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:51pmThat is such a PC answer. The reason you have NO clue is because you don’t know that Christianity is the basis for our culture. Just like Sharia and the Koran is the basis of Middle East culture. You bought into this “Coexist” BS and tolerance for all, This is OUR culture and Jesus’ word should not offend anyone. Teaches about kindness, humble attitude, working hard, mercy, grace, etc. Sorry, this is OUR culture…don’t like it? I WILL not be denied OUR freedom to respect MY culture…don’t like it? Leave…
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 3:56pmI was born and raised in the U.S. Sadly many American do not see how the United States is a secular country built on the “freedom of religion”. I will defend the values the Founders of the nation wanted America to be open to anyone of any faith or non-belief. This is not politically correct-this is respect to other individuals. As a Muslim I have strong faith in Jesus (PBUH). God would want everyone to be happy. Not just certain people.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on January 18, 2012 at 4:16pmNo disrespect, but where does God say in the Bible to practice and respect other religions? That’s when trouble starts…
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