CNN Panel Debates Why America‘s Youth Are Allegedly Beginning to Doubt God’s Existence
- Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:19pm by
Erica Ritz
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Don Lemon had two atheists on his show recently to debate why, statistically, more people under thirty allegedly doubt the existence of God than they did in 2007.
According to the Pew Research Center, the number dropped from 83% who “never doubted” God’s existence in 2007, to 68% in 2012.
“God. Does He exist? More and more young people doubt He does, or She…” Lemon said.
Watch the clip, below:
“What gives here, why the growing divide? Why the growing doubt?” Lemon asked.
But the atheists first explained why they personally don’t believe in God.
“I was brought up in a secular household. I was taught morals without belief in a God or gods,” Jesse Galef said. “It wasn’t until I went off to college that I was exposed to all these other worldviews and realized that people take religion very seriously, and I explored and wanted to understand why and what they believed, and ended up becoming an activist on campus…and I think that’s what more and more secular Americans are finding.”
Hemant Mehta said that, while he had a religious upbringing, when he “went to college he had a chance to really explore that and had a chance to really become an activist [in atheism]“ after realizing that ”no religion had the answers.”
So why are young people supposedly believing in God less and less? According to the panelists and Don Lemon, the Internet may play a large role.
“You can now fact-check what your pastor is saying in church, it’s wonderful,” Mehta said.
But is that really the case? Do you believe the study is accurate, and if so, why do you think the numbers have changed so drastically in the last few years?
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Comments (499)
338lapua
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:17pmI absolutely ENCOURAGE fact checking of religions…….they all fail. Not a single one of the adheres to the teachings of the Bible. ENJOY CHURCH TOMORROW!!!!!!! When you realize that church is not God, you will enter the kingdom. Lets start TOMORROW!
Report Post »LAWDOGG
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:58amWhen all religious zealots stop killing/going to war in the name of god…. There will be peace on earth.
Organized religion is the best way to pit good humans against each other and an even better way to control them.
Taldren
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:55am@Lawdogg, Explain the massacres that have happened in secular socialist countries like the USSR and Nazi Germany then. The rise of socialism and secularism are historically linked and often leads to a massacre.
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:02amTALDREN, when dealing with these sorts, the following quote comes to mind:
“Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”
Report Post »LAWDOGG
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:49amLet me rephrase. American warmongering has ALWAYS used god as a reason for going to war. I am open minded but do not know the answer to why USSR and Nazi Germany did what they did. I can tell you that the crusades are a black eye in christian history and was done in the name of god.
@MELVIN
I am sorry you lack the intelligence and/or patience to debate with others that don’t share your views. I’m also sorry that you feel that name calling is an appropriate and mature response among adults.
Grow up.
bornbitter
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:51amI agree with doing your own study… but who do you ‘fact check’ your pastor against? Possibly the other guy who claims that your pastor is wrong? And how do you know if he is right that your pastor is wrong? Who sets the standard for that kind of thing?
Let’s not be absurd; when it comes to fact-checking your pastor, the internet is not the place to go. The Holy Spirit of God is the only way to know. Is your church the right one? Well, how about you ask God… you know, the guy the church claims is in charge? Crazy, I know, but hey, perhaps that blogger who quoted a few verses knows better than the one who wrote them, right?
Report Post »Taldren
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 4:48am@Lawdogg, The crusades have nothing to do with the modern church … it was 800 years ago. It’s so strange that you fixate on ancient history when all the modern massacres are caused by secularists killing off massive amounts of the religious … be it during WW2 against secular SS/Nazi’s Holocaust against the Jews, the USSR secular Stalin’s Red Holocaust against the Christians, or China’s Mou secular massacres of Buddhists. Radical Islamists have nothing on the secularists.
Report Post »LAWDOGG
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 5:05am@MELVIN
Funny you use the reference that since it happened 800 years ago it is no longer applicable, yet the bible was fabricated much earlier than that yet still holds credence for modern day events. The Nazi’s were christian by all claims.
Did you know that the depiction, history and story of Jesus Christ is a direct copy of Horus the Sun God of Egypt in 3000BC? He also was born on Dec 25th of a virgin, with a bright star in the east (sirius) performed miracles, had twelve followers, was adored by 3 kings, was a teacher at twelve, baptized at 30, and was crucified and resurrected after 3 days.
If you do just a little research on Christianity you’ll find that it is celestially based using constellation events and dates EXACT, not similar, but EXACT to those of many other gods before him.
Your religion is one of the biggest lies ever told to modern civilization. THAT information can now be pieced together with ease and is why you’re finding less and less people believing in Jesus Christ.
Report Post »Taldren
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 5:28am@LAWDOGG, Thank you for proving my point. Not only do you not address the hypocrisy of your secular propaganda in regards to the very modern massacres and holocausts caused by them, but then try to run off on a tangent on a completely debunked Zionist Jesus myth. I am not going to follow you down the rabbit hole on that one, you can look it up yourself and feel free to facepalm yourself repeatedly for believing that tripe.
Report Post »As for the crusade, the church has changed since then. During the crusade the church was focused on the people that were teaching the bible rather than the subject matter of what was being taught. It’s sort of like today where people listen to talking heads that claim they know what is in the constitution vs those that actually took the time to read it for themselves.
burnteye86
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 6:06amLAWDOG, the fact that you will capitalize the word Nazi and purposely not capitalize the words Christian or God shows your intellectual dishonesty and bias. You aren’t fooling anybody.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 8:04amDid someone mention the Crusades..where millions of bibles were burned and millions of protestant Christians were killed to keep the truth from the Roman Catholics and the Muslims? Funny how this depiction tells the start of it all..and the reason behind it’s beginnings was that the Pope wanted Jerusalem for the Vatican City..but it didn’t work out..the Vatican was in talks with Netanyahu last fall telling him if he didn’t relinquish control of the Holy sites in Jerusalem…that there would never be peace in the ME.. http://www.remnantofgod.org/books/docs/how-the-vatican-created-islam.pdf
Report Post »This is the Vatican in talks with Netanyahu last fall http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/150757
ashestoashes
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 8:12amThis is the reason behind what Nazi Germany did is still going on today.. and that is to establish the NWO..THere were secret societies in Germany..Thule and Vrile..and there was also the Loeb Cune bank and of course Shell Oil…. loads of money to be made in the ME .and the goal of establishing the NWO with the Rothchilds at the helm..Here is an account of what greed and lust for material and land acquistion did for their fellow man…very sad..
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw9Qm_TejCo&skipcontrinter=1
Treaty
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 8:53amCNN is dying by 1000 cuts. Good luck with those viewership numbers LOL.
Report Post »GoddessGeek
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 10:08amTaldren, the only reason that some of the atrocities caused by the Christians is ‘ancient’ is because the church is no longer the head of state. Sure, the Crusades were 800 years ago, but modern governments do not send their people on crusades because the governments are secular. The English Civil War was in the 17th century, not 800 years ago. The Peasants’ War, the Counter-Reformation, the Balkan war of of 1912-13 were between Muslims and Christians, as were the second and third Balkan wars (the latter being 1991-2001). World War I started, ultimately, as disputes between Russia, who viewed itself as the defender of Orthodoxy against Islam in the formerly Greek Orthodox strongholds and against the holdings of Jerusalem by Islam and Latins. That was less than 100 years ago. Anwar Sadat was murdered by the Muslim Brotherhood, over..religion. Conflicts between Iraq and Iran, between the Palestinians and Israel, in Lebanon, the Troubles in Ireland – all religious.
As for Hitler (since you Godwinned the comments)
“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.
- Adolf Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936
There are thousands of Hitler quotes available to look up. No fair saying ‘but he’s not a real Christian’. Since there are thousands of Christian sects around, who are you to judge?
Report Post »CptStubbing
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 10:29amJesus wasn’t’ born on Dec 25th and the bible doesn’t say when he was born. Claiming Horus was born on that day makes the Horus comparison very weak.
Isis being married to Osiris for quite a while before Horus was born also makes your virgin Comparison very weak. Also, seeing as the official story of Horus’s birth has Isis reclaiming the body parts of Osiris and molding them together into a phallus so she could impregnate herself also makes your comparison weak.
Seeing as the earliest recorded crucifixion was in 519 B.C. and not anywhere near the time of the Egyptian gods, makes your crucifixion comparison weak.
There is no historical record of a star or 3 kings visiting Horus at his birth and even if there were Jesus was visited by three Magi, thus your argument is still weak.
I don’t even know where you got the age 12 thing for Horus.
Horus only had 12 followers? Well, Jesus had 72 at one point, and then it went down to 12, and then it went to 11, because one betrayed him, and then it went up into the hundreds after the crucifixion and then billions after Pentecost. It’s a shame Horus only ever had 12 followers. Of course accounts say Horus had 4 semi-god followers, 16 noble followers, and many blacksmiths following him as well.
Egyptians weren’t baptized as adults they were immersed as newborns to purify them from their mothers’ wombs or when they died. Also, there is no record of Horus being baptized.
janedough1
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 10:40amLawdogg, you absolutely prove that the depth of your fact checking is laughable. If a person claims they are a dog, we send for the straight jacket. If a person claims to be honest, and is in fact a thief, we send for the police. If a person claims to be a Christian, we accept that at face value? Jesus Christ gave us a test for recognizing his followers, but you haven’t bothered to read the book, so you don’t know what it is. If that is the depth of your fact checking, then I bet you did real good in school… If it was a baby course that only required you to warm a chair every so often, you passed. If was chemistry, that required you to actually read, study and memorize, not so much.
Report Post »CptStubbing
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 10:41amBTW the Crusades were originally fought to defend against Muslim invaders coming up through Greece into Western Europe. So, if you don’t care for the way Muslims are forced to live in their countries you should be thankful for the crusades and the efforts those people put forth to keep Christianity as the dominant religion in Europe.
I’m sure those of you who continually spew hate and lies aren’t interested, but for those who would like to know how Christianity has helped change the world, I would suggest the aptly named book, “How Christianity Changed the World.”
Report Post »Taldren
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 10:51am@GoddessGeek, The crusades were 800 years ago as that is what Lawdogg was arguing in his pro-secular statements over the church. The context is that religion is responsible for all wars and suffering, but it was in fact secularism that has caused some of the greatest holocausts and massacres in our modern area. Millions, if not 10s of millions, died in each of these … which sort of puts your whole English Civil War to shame in terms of body counts.
Report Post »As for what Hitler said in his speeches … it’s propaganda and can not be taken at face value. You have to take a look at what he was actually doing at the time … like Aktion Klostersturm where Himmler and the SS tried to secularize every church in Germany.
AbbeyNormal
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 11:06am@Goddessgeek. Hitler would have killed the Christians just like the Jews if there weren’t so many of them in Germany. Instead he publically appeased them with comments like that. Those in his inner circle knew better.
But Hitler wasn’t necessarily an atheist either. You’re going to love this Goddessgeek, Hitler was a pagan who wanted to restore an old German paganism that he thought the Christians had destroyed.
Look it up before you quote random speeches. Even in that excerpt you quoted, you’ll notice that Hitler made no reference to Jesus or God, he used the expression, “Almighty Creator”. A phrase that would appease the Christians without denying his utter contempt for Christianity.
Even If you still want to believe that Hitler was a Christian, then why did someone who understands who the Jews were, as Christians do (or should) undertake the extinction of God’s chosen people. That doesn’t sound so Christian to me?
Report Post »Wolf
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:07pmPeople who use the crusades as an indicator of using God as an excuse to go to war don’t have any idea who the crusades were against. Let me give you a clue: it starts with muslim and ends with rule.
Report Post »acidovorax
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:48pmTaldren wrote: Explain the massacres that have happened in secular socialist countries like the USSR and Nazi Germany then. The rise of socialism and secularism are historically linked and often leads to a massacre
It’s very easy to explain. It’s a fanatical adherence to an ideology. Both secularist and religious individuals can be prone to such fanaticism.
Report Post »neo@theskepticarena
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:14pm@LAWDOGG
Taldren said, “Explain the massacres that have happened in secular socialist countries like the USSR and Nazi Germany then.”
Taldren thinks Nazi Germany and the USSR were secular countries. Whatever you do, don’t refer him to these pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RUSSIA#Religion
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany#Religions
You don’t want to be responsible for his fatal heart attack when he learns the truth.
Melvin Spittle said, “Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”
DOGG, quit singing.
bornbitter said “Well, how about you ask God… you know, the guy the church claims is in charge?”
DOGG, this guy thinks he can get the answers by talking to himself.
And here is where Taldren pulls the old
“The crusades have nothing to do with the modern church … it was 800 years ago.”
logical fallacy in a desperate attempt to ignore their long, bloody, violent history.
You said, “Your religion is one of the biggest lies ever told to modern civilization. THAT information can now be pieced together with ease and is why you’re finding less and less people believing in Jesus Christ.”
Dude, you are singing to the pigs again. Nice try DOGG, but trying to get through to people who are being threatened with eternal torture by invisible ghosts is a nearly impossible task. But as polls and statistics show, humans are slowly leaving ghost worship and superstition for reason and logic. Unfo
Report Post »neo@theskepticarena
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:37pm@CPTSTUBBING
“Jesus wasn’t’ born on Dec 25th”
Great start Stub, we agree on that one.
“and the bible doesn’t say when he was born.”
But the Bible does tell us what Jesus’ name will be: Emmanuel (Matthew 1:23).
The rest of your post simply tries to minimize the fact that the Jesus myth originated in previous religious mythology. The only thing that was weak … was your analysis.
But if you want to see something that is really weak, look at your belief that during Christ’s birth, a star froze in the sky. Science has never recorded that event – but your “holy book” did. As a matter of fact, your holy book also claimed that the sun froze in the sky for a whole day.
Your beliefs are about as far from reason and logic as one could possibly get.
The rest of your arguments remind me of ancient clergymen arguing over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.
That answer is easy. Since your religious beliefs are as imaginary as the Easter Bunny, the answer is … as many as you could imagine.
Report Post »Taldren
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:28pm@neo@theskepticarena, Oh noes … you referenced Wikipedia. What you referenced was religios breakdowns of the German people, not the people in the SS or Nazi party (aka the people actually in charge). I don’t know how many times I need to reference to you Aktion Klostersturm (Operation Monastery) before it sinks in. Also, Russia isn’t the Soviet Union … so nice try on the tangential argument. Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union#Stalin_era ? It is estimated that 60M died under his secular regime.
As for your completely debunked adherence to the Zeitgeist Jesus myth: http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-one/
Sorry, but history has shown that when atheists are in power during a pro-secular period in history … it causes massacres of an order of magnitude greater than anything the church has ever been blamed for.
Oh, and as my comment on the crusades … I said the MODERN church has nothing to do with the Crusades that happened 800 years ago. It wasn’t the teaching of Christ that caused the crusades, it was the teachers that twisted the lessons to fit the context of a political agenda. The fact that people read the bible for themselves and don’t require a preacher to tell them what it says is the best prevention to this happening again. The same medicine should be used for the United States in regards to its constitution.
Report Post »anomnomnommm
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:54pm@Taldren
“The crusades have nothing to do with the modern church … it was 800 years ago. It’s so strange that you fixate on ancient history when all the modern massacres are caused by secularists killing off massive amounts of the religious”
Careful now… you’re starting to sound a bit progressive… just because it happened hundreds of years ago doesn’t change its relevance, does it? ;-)
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:59pmGoddess,
“There are thousands of Hitler quotes available to look up. No fair saying ‘but he’s not a real Christian’. Since there are thousands of Christian sects around, who are you to judge?”
Law,
“The Nazi’s were christian by all claims.”
The claims that Hitler was a Christian is easy to disprove. The Nazi ideology was a mix that came from several places. One of the central tenets of the Nazi ideology was Nordic Paganism. If Hitler was a rabid Christian why would he allow Nordic paganism as part of the Nazi mythology? Why would Hitler wage a war against the church is he was a rabid Christian?
Another central idea that played a huge role in the Nazi ideology was eugenics. Eugenics did not come from Christianity but rather Darwinian evolutionists.Why aren’t you blaming Darwin or science in general for Hitler that same way you a blaming Christianity?
Despite adhering to the atheist doctrine of reason, rationality, and logic you have both shown that you have not even bothered to open up a history book. You are getting your information from a group of people who are either being intellectually dishonest or flat out moronic. How hard isn’t to read a history book? Your entire case to support the notion that Hitler is a Christian is based on quote mining.
Report Post »paperpushermj
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:59pm@ASHESTOASHES
Report Post »Suggest you revisit what you think you know about the Crusades. I think you will learn they where more of a reaction to an expansionist Islam then a aggressive act of there own.
Taldren
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:10pm@anomnomnommm, Your taking my statement out of context. As I have said, the crusades had nothing to do with the teachings of Christ or the modern church. That is a completely different animal then saying that because it happened a long time ago it isn’t relevant. In fact, it is the most relevant thing to issues within the United States today. Just like back then, too many get their belief system second hand instead of reading it for themselves. It is then very easy to manipulate those beliefs into a context that fits a certain political agenda.
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:11pmLawDog,
“When all religious zealots stop killing/going to war in the name of god…. There will be peace on earth.”
What an incredibly naive statement to make. If that is true how do you account for all the death and destruction of the 20th century? The 20th century was by far the bloodiest and none of it or very little had anything to do with religion.
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:18pmLaw,
“Did you know that the depiction, history and story of Jesus Christ is a direct copy of Horus the Sun God of Egypt in 3000BC?”
Yet another atheist canard that has been proven not to be true for about 50 years or more. Do yourself a favor and stop getting you information from atheist websites. Just because someone is an atheist does not automatically make them smart.
If you can’t get history right as you have shown with your position on Hitler being a Christian and Jesus Christ being a direct copy of Horus the Sun God, it’s time to go some where else to get your information.
Report Post »Artiewhitefox
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 4:23pmGod is not in religions because Jesus is not in it. Have Jesus not in religions, and they will not teach what Jesus taught. it is that simple. I know what Jesus taught in the KJV. The law of God is in you.
Report Post »db321
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 6:19pmI‘m trying to figure out which post with highly demonic points is coming from Glenn’s own Faith Editor. Just look at the 4 Faith Article this weekend alone. You people on the Blaze can be fool, but I will not except any of the BS the Blaze is posting concerning Faith. Then read the comments, people you can make this up.
Faith Editor at Blaze should resign and go to work at MSNBC. Stop Polluting conservative Blogs
Report Post »do_it_all_again
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 7:45pmI tell you the truth,, if you use the BIBLE to “fact check” the pastor, and everyone else, including the “atheist”,, and follow the words of JESUS and the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT, you will never go wrong!
But if you let SELF get in the way, you will miss it every time, i know that one from experience.
Report Post »Amarath01
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 8:35pm@338lap..
Report Post »I agree do fact check everything. Honestly with the divorce rate what it is obviously most Christians are not following Christ .. as his teaching are quite clear. Much of what the west believes and its traditions are more Roman than christian.
But the issue is pervasive.. few revisions/translation of the bible are committed enough to the truth to correctly translate Hebrew or Greek accurately. See gods name, saboth, virgin, inconsistencies in scripture (perceived) often are purposeful in original text, but fear of misunderstanding keeps them hidden.
@Anom…
“Careful now… you’re starting to sound a bit progressive… just because it happened hundreds of years ago doesn’t change its relevance, does it? ;-)”
Yes i may, but more so it was a different people/group doing these actions.
Modern day people in the middle east are not revolutionary scientist and mathematicians… they were at one point but this is no longer true.
Those espousing to be Christian were at one point violent and bear arms in gods name, but they no longer do.
American Indians are violent and murderous people, this is a true statement well a perfect analog, as some tribes were (as some Christians were) but not all, and not any group anymore fits that description.
So now that i have expelled this line of thought’s logical fallacies, cleaver literary devices, and false claims can to retort?
binge_thinker
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 9:37pmAtheism
Report Post »The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits.
Makes perfect sense.
binge_thinker
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 9:39pm@ Dogg
Darwinian evolutionism with its ”survival of the fittest” ideology has devalued human life. If man is not created in the image of God, and if there is no God in heaven Who will judge the living and the dead, if there are no objective standards of right and wrong – then life becomes cheap. When you devalue God, you devalue life.
What are people according to atheists who believe in evolution? ”A hairless ape” – Schoenberg; ”A mere insect, an ant…” – Church; ”An accidental twig” – Gould; ”A rope stretched over an abyss” – Nietzsche; ”A fungus on the surface of one of the minor planets” – Du Maurier; ”A jest, a dream, a show, bubble, air…” – Thornbury; and ”I see no reason for attributing to man a significant difference in kind from that which belongs to a grain of sand” – Oliver Wendell Holmes.
When atheism takes hold of a society, moral relativism is inevitable. Nothing is sacred. There is no objective standard of right and wrong, no God, no eternal Day of Judgement. No hope of eternal justice. Life becomes cheap.
Report Post »Big Book Harry
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 10:41pm@Melvin Spittle I agree… Matthew 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs.
Report Post »@bornbitter….2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
Pray that the Holy Spirit will lead you in to truth as you read scripture.
ASimpleGenius
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 11:00pmWow, you guys are throwing out some really interesting arguments! I’ve learned quite a bit about different points of view. I treat knowledge about anything as good, since more knowledge can only lead one closer to truth.
Report Post »Perhaps one source to ‘fact-check‘ what pastors are saying that hasn’t been mentioned yet: get down on your knees and ask God in prayer if what the pastor is teaching, if what the words you are reading, if what the knowledge you are acquiring is correct.
After all, if He is all-knowing, and the bible is true, then He will give you the knowledge you seek. That’s in James 1:5-6.
ashestoashes
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 11:08pm@PAPERPUSHERMJ Thank you for pointing that out..Yes I know..it was one of those mistakes by the Vatican that came back to bite them in the butt..If you read the link..you will understand..when you read the link out ot Arutz Sheva news..you will see that she is up to her old tricks again.. I understand why the Crusades were fought..I just find it interesting that millions of Christian protestants were murdered and millions of bibles were burned..they even killed other ethnicities for not converting…Remember that..I have scarcely a Catholic admit to me that they are a Christian.(.I ask).. The Catholic Church did not give Jesus much credibility until Martin Luther in the 15th century..And since the bible plainly states that idolaters will not enter the kingdom of heaven…where does that leave the church?
Report Post »Ragnars Repos
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 12:10amHumans must evolve away from religion (death-worship/worship of gods), or they will continue to wallow in the horrible effects of shame. The church is about shaming human beings into obedience/slavery. What is the purpose of ‘original sin’, if not to shame you into lifelong ‘repentance’/tithing, or the like/self-sacrifice?
Individual freedom cannot coexist with religion. Let the priests rule and you will quickly find yourself in shackles for disagreeing with them, or worse, ‘We’re killing you to save your soul, sinner!’
The founders were enlightened individuals, or they would not have put forth the concept of a ‘separation of church and state’. To combine church (any church) with an army is to guarantee mass murder.
Atheist communists, or pious pols: both are equally dangerous to humanity, and they have proven it, over and over.
Show me a rational atheist and I will show you one of the few humans who, given the power, would dare to let you live free.
Report Post »opar5
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 3:36amIn reality, all we have is faith and the abiity to reason. To quote one brilliant young lady: J. B. Post: “Science is not a body of knowledge, but a process, a method, using observation and experimentation to produce models of how the universe works – ultimately grounded in unprovable faith. The unprovable elements of faith are
Report Post »the beliefs that:
(1) the universe operates on consistent principles and
(2) the human mind is capable, at least in part, of comprehending those
principles. The models are constantly being tweaked, changed, or outright abandoned as new data comes in, but faith that the models mean something remains.”
There being over a dozen “authorized” English versions of “the” Bible, Christianity is easy to beat up on, and virtually nobody will react violently; true Christians “turn the other cheek.” When are the brave yahoos going to take on Islam? Probably not today.
MizuNo
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 4:39amSecularist Dictators massacre the religious for the same reason any other dictator does religious or otherwise. Power. Plain and simple. Organized religions ,other than the religion currently espoused by those in power, are a threat to that power. Very few other organizations can put out a cohesive and timely message like organized religion. All dictators fear (and rightly so) that any large gathering of people not firmly in their control will become a revolt.
It is intellectual dishonesty to separate dictators or oppressive regimes by meaningless labels. (Religious vs Non religious). Since no matter what views are espoused it is for the simple reason of gaining and keeping power that they exist at all.
Report Post »old white guy
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 7:06amlawdog, you seem to lack any knowledge of the crusades and why they occured. i will give you a hint. muslim agression.
Report Post »zorro
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 8:57amI can understand Christians talking about God and Jesus an what-have-you. Christians are called to talk about it. But I’ll never understand why athiests give a crap. If you don’t believe, you don’t believe. Let these “crazy” Christians do their talking.
An athiest to me is like your divorced friend that always tell you how great it is to be divorced and trying to encourage you to get a divorce because they’re actually miserable and want you to be miserable too.
Report Post »farfel
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 4:22pmStates WITHOUT religion do a much better job of murdering and genocide. Mao murdered between 47 -79 Million, Stalin was in the area of 20 million, and Hitler, another 12 million.
Without religion where is there any moral consideration? The aforesaid monsters were all atheists intent on murdering all opposition with NO remorse.
Report Post »omnytamer
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 6:01pmWow, you’ve been to every congregation in the world! I’m impressed. It must have taken a really long time not only to visit each one but to examine each of them theologically.
Report Post »anomnomnommm
Posted on July 18, 2012 at 9:16pm@TALDREN
Good thing you’re so informed. I heard news site has good fact checkers.
Report Post »dealer@678
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:14pmDon Lemon and Soledad Obrien have become the laughing stock of cable news. And the idiots dont even realize it
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:44pmI agree.
But in regards to this “debate” on Lemon’s (what an appropriate name) show— the way they present non-belief and atheism is just as simplistic and solipsistic and stupid as the argument for religion.
“I was raised….”
“I went to college…”
“I joined….”
blah blah blah
God damnit! Shut up the eunuch voices!
They don’t get it.
———————–
Religion/faith/belief/superstition is intrinsic to humanity.
It has evolved over time and will continue to do so.
It will never go away.
Even those who claim to be “beyond” it are not immune to it.
Humanity needs uncertainties and the intellectual questions that arise from them
As much as I dislike and don’t believe in religion, I feel strongly compelled by my natural instincts of fairness, respect and human dignity to defend American Christianity against these stupid attacks.
You have my solidarity!
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:04amI signed in just to reply: cool, thank you mrbutcher!
Report Post »bornbitter
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:43amThis was not honest questioning, this was an advertisement for atheism; no faith-based reps at all, but TWO atheists. “…we want people thinking about [atheist groups], we want them questioning, we want them doubting.” Yeah, I bet you do. Let’s look at the only premise they proffered though: ‘I didn’t find the answers.’
I find it amazing that these people assert that a vastly superior intelligent and all powerful, sovereign being who controls the universe doesn’t exist… because [it/He/She] didn’t do what they wanted when they wanted it, or didn’t give them the answers they wanted. I’ve learned that “no” is a perfectly acceptable answer… as is “You’re not ready for that.”
This is akin to my toddler telling me that I don‘t exist when I don’t give him a cookie or let him drive.
I am religious, and I respect the choices of others to believe or not, but I cannot respect beliefs based on an obviously flawed logic. If you don’t believe, then you don’t. I am pleased that kids are asking questions and coming to their own conclusions. You don’t have to believe, you don‘t even have to ask the question if you don’t want and I’ll respect that choice. But I cannot respect intentional stupidity. Can you?
Report Post »JGraham III
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:04pmWhy does anyone care what CNN says or thinks? And, as Christian I couldn’t care less what any atheist thinks about my beliefs. Perhaps they should learn the difference between what is “fact” and what is “truth”. A fact can and often does change; truth never does. It remains true whether anyone accepts it or not. God says He is and also says that His Word is the truth. He doesn’t need the acceptance of an atheist to be so. Truth is not subject to consensus, a point the atheist/scientist fails to grasp when speaking about such things as evolution or the geological age of the earth or any other pet theory that attempts to negate creation.
Report Post »As far as the percentage of young people who doubt or disbelieve in the existence of God, it is no wonder given the godless culture they have grown up in and, having no real opportunity to hear the biblical message who can blame them. Yet for the seeker, the Truth is always there waiting for them.
Kankokage
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:13pmInstead of wringing your hands and saying “wo is me” since kids are questioning God’s existence, think of it this way:
Kids are seriously questioning God’s existence. That means they are seeking him out earnestly for themselves – and not taking someone else’s word for it. This is a good thing.
Report Post »Kankokage
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:26pmIn other words, it is better to question honestly and endure darkness for a time before learning God’s truth, than live a life filled with limp and baseless testimony, never questioning and never learning.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:37pm@KANKOKAGE
Very true.
I would add that these youths are looking for an answer and are easily influenced, therefore, be ready to bear your testimony. They will believe who they trust, and if the only ones they trust are teachers and movie stars, you may be in trouble.
Report Post »kcinco
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:47pmYou are right @Kankokage. My pastor teaches us that to believe in anything requires thinking and questioning and sometimes doubt. Even being an atheist demands critical thinking. Many an atheist has lived their life following the principles of nothingness and later come to question the purpose of it all. Emulating the life of Jesus Christ provides pure purpose, unlike secular standards and demands placed on society to act a certain way.
“Christ never meant that we were to remain children in intelligence … He wants a child’s heart, but a grown-up’s head.” C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:27amwell done Kankokage, i hadnt thought about that.
So the answer is not to go around bible thumbing – but to appeal to their mind. I have felt for a long time that mainstream christianity is too surficial (even the devotionals are too simplistic). IMO, the old testatment has been neglected and without it – there is no context when studying the new testament
Report Post »The-Real-Enrico
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:45amI would say that largest problem is that too many parents don’t live out their faith. It is one thing knowing how to talk the talk but it is harder to walk the walk.
I was raised in a home with loving parents who home schooled me and my siblings, brought us to church every week and always tithed.
But I never found any sense of community or service with in my family. My parents attitudes to others weren’t always loving but some time hateful. In allot of ways were cowards and would try to justify it to us and themselves biblically.
I always believe in God and the words and the facts of the Bible. I would find too much hypocrisy the action around me and within myself to have a personal relationship with God. I found God personally by honestly questioning in my beliefs and studying words, truth and intent of Jesus , the Bible and history good and bad.
Your not saved by actions but if you clam to be saved you must act. The truth will set you free then make you obligated.
OB must go! Rand 2014 or 2016 or for VP. We need some people some truth, math, common sense and convictions.
Report Post »Qoheleth
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:09pmThe Barna Group, which I trust to get the statistics right, has indicated something similar. It‘s not the first time it’s happened, however. Religious affiliation goes in cycles, the down-turns are followed by “awakenings” when people begin to realize the bankruptcy of humanism.
Report Post »Why is it happening now? I think there are two reasons. First, some people use God as way of dealing with anything they don’t understand. If I can’t figure it out, then God does it. If that’s all God is, then your god keeps on getting smaller as you learn more. God is more than just a gap-filler.
Second, a lot of congregations have become either social clubs or social action groups. Their activities are either centered around their members or doing some good in the community. Nothing wrong with either, but if the life of the church isn’t about the life-changing power of God, you might as well join the Kiwanis or Rotary Club. In these congregations, people don’t find real fulfillment, so naturally numbers dwindle and some folks never join.
The third aspect is that churches are still working on the “if you build it, they will come” model. They won’t… unless you go out and get their attention. Congregations need to go back to the model of congregation-building that’s shown time-and-time again in Acts: Those folks went to the social centers and centers of debate and thought and caught people’s attention with their ideas, centered on that “life-changing power of God” menti
cruffler78
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:03pmHear, hear! ^^^^^^^^^^
Report Post »LAWDOGG
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:21amYou left out the out another important reason…. Child raping bishops.
Report Post »nickdolan
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:29amWell, as an atheist I disagree with your view on humanism, but you’ve outlined perfectly what churches need to do if they want to remain relevant in the second millennium. Aside from dealing with the obvious issues of banishing raped women who get abortions but allowing the rapist to remain in your flock (this happened a few weeks ago in Brazil) and refusing to cover up the rape of children any longer. Basically, remove the rapey vibe and get back to, you know, religion. Well done, sir.
Nick, 14
Report Post »booger71
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:02amThey learn in public school to bow down to government not God
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:09pmFew see the Light , but the Lord will never let the Light go out.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:08pmWhy is there less fire ? Maybe someone took away the match.
Report Post »rsanchez1
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:07pmYou could always fact-check your pastor. It’s called the BIBLE. It’s been in existence for thousands of years. It was the first book to be mass produced by Gutenberg. Maybe if people checked with the word of God instead of some guy on the internet, there would be much less confusion. There would probably not have been an audience for Jeremiah Wright or “The Reverend Doctors” Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton if people actually checked their Bibles instead of blindly following hate mongers and some guy on the internet.
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:33pmHow do you fact check with a book of fiction?
Report Post »taxpro4u03
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:40pmI dunno — that Book of Joseph thing back in 1848 lit up a few ‘Christians’ — was Joseph Smith right that the biblical Abraham is in fact Egyptian pharaoh AMEN-emhet the First??? and WHO ARE the Hyksos people? – Why were Greek writers involved in ‘preserving’ hyksos texts… and why was there even a NEED for the First Council at Nicea in 325AD… Where did King James get the ‘notion’ he could just — re-write some stuff… who‘s this vicar Pope guy and where did the ’idea’ originate — all good questions — many good answers — there are legitimate ‘conspiracy theories,’ and then there are conspiracy FACTS. Facts must meet the Standards for Review – come from totally UNBIASED neutral sources and be independently verifiable… answer: POWER, CONTROL, and COMMERCE. PERIOD. Jefferson was a DIEST, not a ‘christian.’ Strip away the myths and legends (Jefferson Bible) and you have Principles for DECENT human behavior…. :-0 “I like your Christ. I do not like many of your Christians; they are so unlike your Christ.” ~Ghandi
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:35am@HOLY…
In the Bible… the dating from the time Abraham… up to Revelations… matches Historical Events and Dates… so, it can only be said that it is about 99% Historical… and Not Fiction… but being History from the Perception & Perspective of the Subject people, where description may carry an Ancient Point of View.
In Fact… you Fact Check with the Records of Ancient Egypt and Roman Histories… where there are Matches… but also where the point of view of the Egyptians was: Israel was Tributary State to Egypt and never an Independent Kingdom… and Israel was Punished upon several occasions by Egypt.
The Public Library should have all the books needed to help you.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:19am@LUKERW
Hahahaha. Man you’re one delusional person.
Btw, you just admitted yourself that the Bible isn’t 100% true, which means you don‘t believe it’s the true word of God. It is you people who say this book is, “all or nothing.” Well you just said it’s 99% true(which is outlandishly hilarious). Well 99% isn’t 100% so you therefore can’t accept any of it.
Welcome to Atheism. :-D
Report Post »The-Real-Enrico
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 5:54am@ModerationIsBest I don’t think you get it when it come to the statement when Christians state that it is 100% true or what they mean in 100% or none at all.
They are talking about the message and the truth in it. Most the historical advents and time lines match up with the rest of historical fact. Also vice visa history also backs up many of the Bible’s claims. The message teaches how to live our lives.
Where the 99% as stated above comes from is it can never be 100% the same originally written do to the fact of translating. That is another point were faith come in. It’s not a blind faith. It’s on a educated faith.
Many of the character in the Bible were good people.. shoot most of them are not. All of the character are met with failure morally and more. None of the character were righteous. Not everything they said or did was Godly or of God. The old testament shows how even the unrighteous can do God’s will if they turn to him and listen to his guidance and then still can turn their back on him and lose their way if they listen.
New testament actually shows someone actually living God’s word. Someone who was actually righteous and went on to teach what and how it was to really be a one of God’s people.
The Bible also full of hypocrites and even some of those people wrote books in the Bible. We don‘t worship hypocrites and we don’t pray to Abraham , Job or even Mary. We don’t worship the Bible. We worship the God of the Bible and/Jesus Christ.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:19pm@THE-REAL-ENRICO
That is your interpretation on “all or nothing.” There are many Christians who look at the entirety of the Bible and say, “No, you either have to accept that Eve talked to a snake(etc), or accept none of it.” Again, your explanation is just a case of a Christian looking at how other Christians interpret the Bible and saying, “no, they’re wrong.“ or ”well that’s not really what the Bible says.“ or ”well, don’t judge all Christians by the crazies.”
To say that the Bible matches up with a lot of history is laughable(especially the account in Genesis).
Even more so, I still don‘t think there’s evidence of the “Israelites” ever being enslaved in Egypt. For a long time you always heard the “reasoning” of, “well obviously Egypt didn‘t want to have on record that they escaped enslavement so of course they wouldn’t be in records of Egypt!” which is purely laughable.
There has never been any evidence found of people wondering for 40 years.
To say that the Bible matches up with history is untrue and laughable.
It does have some things that are true historically, but they are mostly physical things which don’t argue to the point of the supernatural claims of Christianity.
Spiderman takes place in New York City. Please New York City exists, does that mean Spider-man exists? no.
Report Post »reality_check
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 8:38amModerate,
Your argument that certain people that do not believe in certain gods really has no relevance and certainly doesn’t suggest that Christians are Godless. Try not to muddy the truth to suit your divisive personal agenda. If you are atheist, you should be proud that you have no god and can thumb your nose at any imaginary deity willing to even notice your existence. Be happy you have the courage to face a dark and lifeless death when your body wears out and the soulless shell is dumped in a box to be buried and forgotten. You very well may have the psyche that allows and embraces that option.
Report Post »PROSECUTE_PUBLIC_SERVANTS__FOR_CONSTITUTIONAL_TREASON
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:05pmFathers are missing in action and if they are present in the family they are not being the spiritual leader. Christians are not being salt and light. God judgement is coming.
Fools have said in their heart there is not God. They are willfully blind. That’s OK. If they refuse God, God will still get honor and glory through their judgment. You can deny God and still bring honor and glory to God.
Do your own research.
Report Post »nickdolan
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:19amBut…but…he’s not real! I’m not denying it out of ignorance, but reason. And to be fair, you’re an atheist too. Thousands of gods you’ve never heard of, and outright dismiss. Furthermore,
“God either can’t fix catastrophes, doesn’t care to, or doesn’t exist. So God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely.” -Sam Harris
Nick, 14
Report Post »The-Real-Enrico
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 4:24am@PROSECUTE Nicely said. So much truth in your statement. God can use a sinner and the godless to spread his word and glory. Too many who proclaim Christ don’t ether fundamentally understand, personally believe and live their faith.
@nickdolan You seem to not understand who or what our “God” is. I would suggest you honestly study the Bible starting with the new testament and focusing on Jesus words and actions. Then go back and re-read the old testament in that context.
Finally apply that information with world history and Christians involvement through out. Crusader and all. Then come back and argue your point.
Report Post »strewth_cobber
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 4:08amAaaaaaaaaaaaah… reasoning!! Not everything can be rationalised.
Report Post »Some things will always be a mystery! Such as some things about God the Father, The Creator.
reality_check
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 8:40amNick,
Quoting anything from a virulent, anti-religious bigot like Sam Harris makes you look desperate and foolish.
Report Post »nickdolan
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 5:52pmReality Check: It’s not just him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
Enrico: I’ve been studying the bible on and off for about half a year, and I can appreciate it as a work of literature and symbolism (well, most of it–I cannot see the grace or love in condemning homosexuals and people who eat shellfish, not to mention those who work on Sunday), but I do not see the logic in a man in the sky. Regardless of what God MEANS, God IS just as much, and Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism all describe deities with beards and occasionally dozens of arms that live in the sky and control everything. This is illogical and I do not believe it.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:04pmSimple. Because many parents fail.
Report Post »freeberty
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:02pmI lay the blame on instantaneous information. You don’t have to go to the library to find out that the Bible was put together by governments and men. Daily on the internet you see the hypocrisy of religious organizations the most prevalent being the Catholics with the daily stories of their corruption and the horror of their pedophilia cover up that would make Jerry Sandusky blush. Then of course you have the evangelical con men that you could turn a channel and watch right now. It so bad an honorable, ethical person wouldn’t want to have anything to do with it.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:36amhypocrisy has been the main problem for thousands of years
Report Post »CatholicConservative
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:10amWell my “Catholic” Bible does tell me that all of the books were complied by several known and unknown authors, writing in several different literary genres, (poems, parables, etc.), to convey his message to readers that span hundreds of years. This is all part of God’s master plan for His message and purpose, which find fruition in Jesus Christ.
Report Post »It is because we are sinful, criminal, pedofiles, murders, rapists, liars, thieves, etc. that we need 1) this message of how to live a better, more moral life, and 2) Jesus’ sacrific that accepts our sins, paid for them, and shows us the path to eternal life for our souls. When enough like-minded people accept the same message as truth, they gather together to celebrate that truth and to worship the God who gave us that truth who constantly reminds us that His message is an eternal one of love. Hence, religion. In return, we try to be more Christ-like; forgiving, seeking wisdom, be joyful in all that we do, etc.
I question where an “ethical” person who doesn‘t want anything to do with God’s message gets his moral compass. Reason? Common sense? Logic? All relative and man-made, and remember: man is flawed. Again; this is why we need to think for ourselves about what the Bible teaches and question with boldness the very existence of God, for the answer is worth it. It is hard to be moral the way Christ teaches, but that doesn’t make the message wrong. It just shows how far we need to go to live a life full of the Hol
stockpicker
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:02pmRomans 1:18-23 tells us that the unbeliever won’t believe. Thus we have more proof of the truth of Scripture.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:44amIn fact… we are a Predator Species… Individually Unique, Self Centered and Egotistical… so we are prone to Disagreement upon Issues… which means that we are Not Rational… and so one cannot take disbelief as a total refusal to ever accept another’s point of view.
Report Post »acovenantinblood
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 9:48pmPredator species? That’s called in Adam we all sinned.
Report Post »FlamingFartSyndrome
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:01pmPeople turn to religion because they don’t want to take full responsibility for everything that happens in their life. When something terrible happens, it is normal to believe that everything happens for a reason, because if you don’t believe that to be true, you have to deal with the FACT that life is unfair. Other than turning to religion because of sadness, people turn to religion because of fear. For example, many people fear death because it is the “unknown” and in order to feel better they believe there is a happy, magical place where they will live infinitely in joy. The last reason people turn to religion is for guideness, they are incapable of having the strength to change within themselves, so they search for a spiritual guide to help them change their ways.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:10pmYou got it all wrong.
Report Post »KangarooJack
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:17pmI believe in God {a Higher Power} not out of fear. I believe because I have seen first hand things that have happened that have no empirical explaination.
Your assumption that people believe in God because they fear death is skewed.
If you do NOT believe in God and die…you just die.
If you DO believe in God yet God is not real…you still die.
If you DO believe in God and believe in Heaven…you still die.
God IS NOT about the fear of death. God IS about the HOPE of the future.
Report Post »Tractorboy
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:31pmFlaming- Have you ever talked to a born again as I am, or did you come up with your hypothosises all on your own? I guess the later. You might want to dig a little deeper if you really want to know why people believe. Someday you may want Gods help to get you through something, I hope he’s there for you, as he was for me.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:52pm@FLAMINGFARTSYNDROME
I humbly disagree.
People who are looking for guidance in this world DO turn to religion for that very purpose.
There are many things in this world that cause harm – physical, mental and otherwise. There are many competing voices trying to lure you one way or the other. Many turn to science or reason, but these are really the opinions of men and are subject to change.
God’s rules are designed to keep you happy in this world and the next. Life is hard enough, you don’t need to make it any harder. By following God’s rules, you will help yourself.
If you don’t drink, you wont become an alcoholic. If you don’t get divorced (honor your marriage), your kids will be happier and you will not go broke paying alimony. If you rest on Sunday, your body will be invigorated. If you don’t lie, cheat or steal you will be trusted. The list goes on, but you get my point.
When the world’s advise sends you headlong on the road of misery, you look for a better way.
The wise look for a better way before it is too late,
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:56pm@KANGAROOJACK
Just because you have hope that something is true, doesn’t mean it is.
Just because you hope that there is something after death, doesn’t mean there is.
You may have tricked yourself into saying what you say, but religion started as a way to understand things that they were afraid of, or that they couldn’t explain. Each religion tries to say that they’re not a religion, that it’s about their “walk” or “faith” or whatever they want to do to try and make themselves feel better about what they believe and to differentiate themselves from other wackos who believe in invisible monsters.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:23pm@MODER…
Scientific Observation is Empirical Evidence… and in my Multiple Clinical Deaths… I observed and have memories of an After Life that is unrelated to Earthly Existence. And, yes… I have a Doctorate in Science.
Now, you can reject my Observation… but I will claim that you must Die to Disprove it!
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:32pm@MODERATIONISNEST
With all due respect, you must understand that your understanding of how religion started is not grounded in fact; rather it is modern man’s explanation of the motives of our ancestors.
I believe that when Adam & Eve were created, they walked and talked with God. When they transgressed God’s directive by partaking of the forbidden fruit, they were cast out of His presence. They were then instructed how they could be with Him again. These teachings were taught to their children. As their children populated the Earth, these teachings became distorted and mixed with the explanations you submitted. This is why you have animal sacrific rituals spread thought various cultures – the teaching remained, but the reason was lost.
This is, of course a thumbnail sketch, but you get the point.
Report Post »nickdolan
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:42amWell put. Fear of death has always seemed strange to me. For instance, I‘m not afraid of the year 1678 just because I wasn’t alive, so why should I be of 2678? I picture it as taking a long nap, or maybe something more beautiful: your body becomes one with the earth and the chemicals and cells you’re made of decompose into their purest form and rest in peace. And when the time comes, maybe millions of years into the future, one atom leads to another and you’re reborn. I find much more solitude in this than I ever would in a bearded dictator who’s either incompetent or evil.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:57am@LUKERW
Hahaha, typical religion.
Make asinine claims with no evidence
Demand others disprove it.
I am a robot from the future. Disprove it!
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:03am@BROTHER_ED
How hilarious.
You try to refute my explanation of history by giving me a literal interpretation of Genesis and think it’s accurate history of how man came to be. How absolutely laughable an argument that is that I really wonder if I should even respond to it.
You do know that Genesis isn’t a day by day account of what happened right? It was written by a man who looked at the world and then frantically started writing about how he believed that world came to be.
To try to correct my explanation of history by talking about what you “believe”(especially when you invoke Genesis) is irrelevant and intellectually dishonest to both you and myself.
I really hope you read through what you typed and realize how asinine it is for you to correct me while accepting Genesis. It’s downright insulting to your intelligence.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:12am@MODER…
The proof that you are not a Robot from the Future is: You keep failing to read what is written and do not seem to understand the meaning of the words. On the other hand, if you are a Robot… you are Broken.
Emprical Evidence is Observation that is Scientifically Recorded and made by a Scientific Observer… and I did record it and publish.
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:25amMod,
“Just because you have hope that something is true, doesn’t mean it is.”
Just because you hope something is true, doesn‘t mean it’s not true either…….
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:44am@Luke
Your “empirical evidence” doesn‘t hold water because it isn’t testable or repeatable. It is not falsifiable therefore it has no standing in science.
In fact, what you are claiming isn’t empirical evidence but non-empirical evidence. It is subjective and based on the observer(which is you). Empirical evidence ” For example, a thermometer will not display different temperatures for each individual who observes it. Temperature, as measured by an accurate, well calibrated thermometer, is empirical evidence”
Where may I ask did you get your “science” doctorate and in what field? Or did you get some kind of general “science” doctorate(didn’t even know those existed).
Oh and btw, I AM a robot from the future. Nothing you say will disprove that because a book I read told me I was a robot from the future. The reason I know the book is true is because the book says it’s true. Anything that counters the book must be false because I know he book is true.
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:07amMod,
“Oh and btw, I AM a robot from the future. Nothing you say will disprove that because a book I read told me I was a robot from the future.”
It would be really easy to prove that you are not a robot from the future.
You are attempting to make a really bad variation of Bertrand Russell’s Tea pot analogy. You have combined the atheist’s standard no evidence argument with the charge of circular reasoning.
Report Post »JACKTHETOAD
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 4:55amYou poor guy. So full of yourself. When you become full of yourself, you really become full of something else. Jesus will forgive you.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:34pm@KSTRET
I’m using the same “reasoning” that religion gives. Yet mines not as valid?
Oh and btw, you said it would be easy to prove that I’m not a robot from the future, but in your post you didn’t even try to. You proved my point! I am a robot from the future!
Report Post »JACKTHETOAD
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:45pm@MOD – Look up.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:25pm@JACKTHETOAD
I am not full of myself, it is you who are full of yourself.
I don‘t claim to know that a God doesn’t exist. I say that I think it’s unlikely that God exists(and haven’t been given good evidence that one does), but I can’t prove it. I am also open to evidence to the contrary. There is a reason why you have to accept Jesus Christ as your savior before you die, or before he supposedly returns. Once I actually have physical evidence that a God exists(and specifically to Christianity) that Jesus Christ is the Son of God(if I were to see him come down and start performing crazy miracles), it is deemed too late for me(if I hadn’t accepted him before that). Again, you may say that what I described above isn’t “your” version of Christianity, but then again, it would prove my whole point of the absurdity of religion.
You are the one who says, “i KNOW God exists” and not only that, but no evidence to the contrary would sway you otherwise. You don’t “know” because of any evidence, you “know” because of faith(which isn’t really knowing). Sorry but I have no interest in that.
That almost every religion believes that the Gods of other religions don’t exist(or never existed in the case of Zeus, Odin etc), yet they all command the same divinity behind the claims that their God DOES exist, leads me to think it’s unlikely that a God exists(much less a specific God).
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:38pmMod,
“I’m using the same “reasoning” that religion gives. Yet mines not as valid?”
First of all, you are stereotyping all Christians. Secondly, there are Christians who do not use circular reasoning.
“Oh and btw, you said it would be easy to prove that I’m not a robot from the future, but in your post you didn’t even try to. You proved my point! I am a robot from the future!”
Why don’t we go to a doctor and take an X ray? If we don’t see metal in it, that would be a pretty good indication that you are not in fact a robot. I bet we can find a birth certificate, your parents, or any siblings who have known you your entire life. This would disprove that you are from the future. You point is now in the sewer.
You are committing the category error and straw-man logical fallacies. Every single Simpsons comic book guy looking angry atheist activist make the exact same arguments in the exact same order. Everyone of their arguments is predicated on a logical fallacy. I would think someone whose credo is logic and reason would not make logically flawed arguments.It’s one thing not to believe in God. It’s other to think that disbelieving in God makes you intellectually superior.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 3:56pm@KSTRET
Again, I have never once said to be superior to anyone.
Secondly, you will find metal in every human body.
Thirdly, I can just say that the birth certificate was a forgery and that anybody that would attest to seeing me be born is lying.
Obviously I used an absurd example because religion in itself makes absurd claims and uses absurd examples. When approached with evidence to the contrary, it gives the exact same type of “reasoning” as I did above.
Of course I’m not saying my “reasoning” for why I am a robot is sound, because it’s not. The difference is, I know it’s not sound and am doing it to prove a point. Religion doesn‘t realize their arguments aren’t sound, or if they do they fall back on, “well you got to have faith.” No thanks, I’ll pass.
To say that most Christians don’t use circular reasoning is flawed.
In fact, the core argument of why someone would follow what the Bible says is, “well it’s the word of God.” When asked why they accept that it’s the word of God, they will say, “Because the Bible says it is.” It is why there are many people who will automatically reject anything that they think is contradictory to the Bible(even if the Bible doesn’t explicitly say anything about it). They have been taught an interpretation by someone else, and claim divinity behind their interpretation. Anything counter to it is WRONG.
Other people might appeal to a “feeling” or “faith” but not evidence.
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 4:45pmMod,
“Again, I have never once said to be superior to anyone.”
You are just calling anyone who believes in God stupid but you didn’t say the exact phrase that you are intellectually superior. That is a great point!
“Secondly, you will find metal in every human body. ”
The amount of metal that you would find in the human body would be the same amount of metal if the person was actually a robot? Since you find mental in humans, an x-ray couldn’t differentiate between a robot and human? You must also believe if someone had a mental plate in their head and a doctor took an X-ray, he couldn‘t tell that there was a metal plate in the person’s head. That is brilliant argument that is based on sound logic and reason!
“Obviously I used an absurd example because religion in itself makes absurd claims and uses absurd examples.”
Wait a minute….. I though I couldn’t disprove that you are a robot from the future. Now you are back tracking.
“When approached with evidence to the contrary, it gives the exact same type of “reasoning” as I did above.”
What evidence do you have that would prove God’s non-existence? Please say that that there isn’t any evidence and make another ridiculous analogy.
“The difference is, I know it’s not sound and am doing it to prove a point.”
You are not proving a point but rather making a text book straw-man argument. Why is someone who values reason and logic making an argument that is a logical fallacy?
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 4:47pmMod,
“To say that most Christians don’t use circular reasoning is flawed.”
That is not what I said. I said you are stereotyping all Christians and not all Christians use circular reasoning. There is another straw-man.
“In fact, the core argument of why someone would follow what the Bible says is, “well it’s the word of God.”
Again, you are stereotyping all Christians.
“Other people might appeal to a “feeling” or “faith” but not evidence.”
What is your evidence that God doesn‘t exist and that Christianity isn’t true.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 4:55pm@KSTRET
“You are just calling anyone who believes in God stupid but you didn’t say the exact phrase that you are intellectually superior. That is a great point!”
Again, do a search on here for the word “stupid.” I think the only time you’ll see it is when it is a Christian saying that Atheists accuse them of being stupid. I can say your “reasoning” or “evidence” is stupid(which I haven’t said on here), but that is not calling you stupid. And you say I’m the one creating straw man arguments?
“The amount of metal that you would find in the human body would be the same amount of metal if the person was actually a robot?” That’s not what you said. You said, “Why don’t we go to a doctor and take an X ray? If we don’t see metal in it, that would be a pretty good indication that you are not in fact a robot.” I was merely refuting your point.
“Wait a minute….. I though I couldn’t disprove that you are a robot from the future. Now you are back tracking.” If you took me serious, you are making me laugh.
“What evidence do you have that would prove God’s non-existence? Please say that that there isn’t any evidence and make another ridiculous analogy.” I have never said I have evidence that proves God’s non-existence. There are lots of things we don’t have evidence against, that we don’t accept. To make a random claim and then demand it be proven not true is silly. I have merely said that religion has proven no evidence to the
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 5:10pm@KStret
” I have merely said that religion has proven no evidence to the existence of one.”
Also, I don‘t claim to know that God doesn’t exist. I say that I think it‘s unlikely and haven’t seen good evidence for it. It is religion who says they know that God exists even more arrogant(as Luke said below), they don’t even need to show evidence for it.”
Okay, you didn’t say “verbatim”(ironic how you can accuse me of making statements I didn’t make, yet your accusation is valid, and then when I do it on accident to you, it’s a straw man). Plus, I would argue my point is still valid in the end, that when it comes down to the crux of their argument, they accept the Bible because the Bible says its true. What are some non circular reasonings for accepting the bible?
That’s what you were raised in?
That’s what you “believe” or “have faith in.”
None of those provide evidence to the claims that you make.
“What is your evidence that God doesn‘t exist and that Christianity isn’t true.” What is your evidence that God does exist and that Christianity is true? Religion is the one who made the original claim. Prove Islam isn’t true, or Zeus.
Would you really like me to go into detail of why I think no God exists and specifically that the Christian God doesn’t exist? I can if you want. Then again, will you objectively look at what I say, or will you automatically reject it because the Bible says something different?
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 6:56pm@MODERATIONISBEST
I see nothing laughable about it.
My explanation is just as valid as yours.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 7:17pm@BROTHER_ED
False
Scientific reasoning is based upon observing the world how it is. Testing that observation to see if it holds up. Other people testing that observation to see if they can get the same results. Science then continually tries to disprove those results and if those results are proven not true, they no longer accept them as valid results.
Religion is about looking at how the world is explained in ones own holy book. It isn’t about testing to see if the claims made in that book are true. It isn’t about continually trying to disprove the claims made in that book(in fact, that book can’t be proven to be untrue because as we all know, the book is true). Any evidence that is contrary to that book is first viewed as wrong and then generally accepted with the rationalization of, “well our God created everything so it fits in.”
Ergo, your explanation isn’t as valid as mine. I care about whether my explanation is true. You KNOW your explanation is true, while providing no evidence. That is what makes it laughable.
Report Post »strewth_cobber
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 3:58amDo robots have free will? Or do they just do what they have been programmed to do?
Blessed are they that have not seen, yet have believed! John 20:29
Have to love gift of free will/choice! Unless you’re a commie/fascist/nazi/slave-master.
Report Post »reality_check
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 8:50amModerate was really on a tangent here. It’s funny, yet sad that he spends hours and hours belittling and demeaning something he swears up and down is not there, yet calls Christians irrational.
If your worldview is true then all beliefs are merely artificial transient constructs applied to randomly evolved synaptic firings. How else can you judge them? Their end goal is “survival of the fittest”, not truth, wrong vs. right, or personal rights or freedom. Those constructs are artificial as well. At a base level the logical consequence is that the subjugation of one set of artificial constructs to another is a neccessity (for the survival of the fittest) and is ultimately amoral regardless of the reasoning we assign to those base biologically evolved phenomenom.
So, Mod, you can dog Christianity all you like but it is evident that you owe Christianity (or at least Theism) a debt for stealing from it the concept of personal rights and the sense of moral absolutes. I wonder if that is why you constantly mischaracterize and ridicule Christians/Christianity as being illogical and irrational because by doing that you defray attention away from your illogical and irrational beliefs despite the logical conflict of those assumed beliefs with your stated worldview (materialism – survival of the fittest).
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:42pmMod,
“I can say your “reasoning” or “evidence” is stupid(which I haven’t said on here), but that is not calling you stupid.”
If a person accepts reasoning and evidence that is stupid would that indicate that
A. The person is smart
B. The person is stupid.
So.. Again, you are playing games with semantics. You imply someone is an idiot and when someone calls you on it, you argue that because you didn‘t say the exact phrase or you called a person’s point stupid that gets you off the hook.
“I was merely refuting your point.”
The problem is that you didn’t refute my point. If you believe that you refuted my point, you would have to believe that a metal plate would not show up on an X ray. This is not true, which means you did not refute my point.
“If you took me serious, you are making me laugh.”
If you were making a joke you could not have refuted my point. Which is it?
“” I have never said I have evidence that proves God’s non-existence…..I say that I think it‘s unlikely and haven’t seen good evidence for it. ”
If there is no evidence for or against God’s existence, that should leave you at a neutral position, rather than disbelief.
What good evidence is there for atheism? If you can not make a good case for atheism or don’t have any evidence to support atheism, why would you discount the existence of God because of a lack of evidence but then turn around disbelieve in God when there isn’t any evidence to suppo
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:44pmMod,
“Also, I don‘t claim to know that God doesn’t exist”
Please stop using the Richard Dawkins equivocation technique. The definition of atheism is someone who believes that God doesn’t exist. Comparing God to fictitious creatures or Santa clause would also be indicative of someone who believes the possibility of God existing is laughable and preposterous.
Don‘t tell me that you believe that there is a slight possibility that God exists and you also believe that there is a slight possibility the monster that you make up as a strawman argument against God’s existence exists as well.
“Would you really like me to go into detail of why I think no God exists and specifically that the Christian God doesn’t exist?”
I asked you that question before. Are you going to answer it?
Report Post »dealer@678
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:01pmI feel it is our duty as the elderly in this country to save the youth from itself with our vote this november, For some of us it will be our last vote BUT the most important one
Report Post »HKS
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:57pmWell, maybe government schools and other government entities driving that concept into the kids heads could have something to do with it. We quite frankly have no problems at all that didn’t come from the government at some level.
Report Post »drbage
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:10pmNot only the government indoctrination system being run by the unions aka public education, but also the ACLU is the champion of religion out. They are, of course, aided and abetted by the Dumbocrats who insist that the Constitution really says “freedom FROM religion.” Another institution that the Dumbos and their allies are trying to eliminate from our country is patriotism.
Report Post »RLTW
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:56pmMore and more young people are constantly lead to believe that looking outside themselves for the answer to problem or finding something or someone to blame is the answer.
Looking into your own soul and seeing darkness is difficult without God, It’s why we have all the corruption in this feel good society.
Report Post »PROSECUTE_PUBLIC_SERVANTS__FOR_CONSTITUTIONAL_TREASON
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:56pmPastors don‘t give themselves to study God’s Word today. They are stuck in their own sin or busy with running the corp. mega church. They are focused on everything but study and teaching Bible doctrine; thus lots of salvation messages. No where in scripture was church meant to win the lost. Church is for the sheep. The sheep are to go out into the world each week and win the lost. It’s all business today for the pastors. Many of the people view the church as a moral country club. The result is we receive devotional sermonettes without depth of teaching. The people on the other hand have itching ears and can not take strong Bible meat. The people prefer to be entertained and suck on feel good baby formula teaching. In addition, pastors have been silenced on political issues naming names because they accepted 501C3 tax exempt status in exchange for silence on vile gov. sin. To attract people the churches are marketing their services with hollywood style.
Report Post »The teens have no spiritual depth because the families, particularly the fathers who are the spiritual leaders of their home, are missing in action either devorced or unwilling to teach the family spiritually.
In fact the father struggle with their own sin dependencies and have no interest in teaching God’s principles of life. Most families barely understand salvation doctrines. Christians are no longer salt and light. The Bible “end of times” are beginning.
Munsonmanor
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:32pmI don’t doubt that there is a God. Where I have doubt is in the men and women who profess to be speaking God’s word. I’ve met very few religious leaders that I have trust in or believe in. The panel referenced in the article have one thing in common. They became athiests while in college. It‘s a whole lot easier to go along with a majority of your classmates that don’t believe in God than it is to be said to hate women, minorities, etc.. When you stop and take a GOOD look around at the wonders of this world, how foolish does someone look thinking that this was some sort of cosmic accident? When I look at my wife, kids, & family, how could I feel the love I do for them without God? To look at God and say he doesn‘t exist and that it’s all bologna is a joke. I can do whatever I want, however I want to whomever I want and there’s no consequences? When we die, we just blow out like a candle in the wind? To go through life like these Godless folks do is fruitless and empty. I have a nephew who has book sense that is much greater than I, but has the common sense of a grape. He’s already a democrat and an athiest and he seems to be in love with an environmentalist. I give him a year before he’s been arrested at some rally someplace and oh how proud his liberal mother will be when it happens. All we can do is hope for the best….and prepare for the worst!
Report Post »MeteoricLimbo
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:52pmIt aint rocket science.no hard times no need for something to lean on
Report Post »PROSECUTE_PUBLIC_SERVANTS__FOR_CONSTITUTIONAL_TREASON
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:58pmThe fool has said in his heart there is no God.
Pastors don‘t study God’s Word today. They are stuck in their own sin or busy with running the corp. mega church. They are focused on everything but study and teaching Bible doctrine; thus lots of salvation messages. No where in scripture was church meant to win the lost. Church is for the sheep. The sheep are to go out into the world each week and win the lost. It’s all business today for the pastors. Many of the people view the church as a moral country club. The result is we receive devotional sermonettes without depth of teaching. The people on the other hand have itching ears and can not take strong Bible meat. The people prefer to be entertained and suck on feel good baby formula teaching. In addition, pastors have been silenced on political issues naming names because they accepted 501C3 tax exempt status in exchange for silence on vile gov. sin. To attract people the churches are marketing their services with hollywood style.
Report Post »The teens have no spiritual depth because the families, particularly the fathers who are the spiritual leaders of their home, are missing in action either devorced or unwilling to teach the family spiritually.
In fact the father struggle with their own sin dependencies and have no interest in teaching God’s principles of life. Most families barely understand salvation doctrines. Christians are no longer salt and light. The Bible “end of times” are beginning.
MeteoricLimbo
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:08pmAtheists may not believe in a God but they sure seem to have a problem with the shadow God casts
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:49pmnote to AMERICAN CHRISTIANS,
THEY (the left) ARE TRYING TO INCITE YOU. The left wants you to be fanatical, offended, outraged and enraged so they can mock you and make Obama look better.
Please, don’t take the bait.
This is nothing new. People have been doubting the gods since gods were invented.
Just ask Socrates.
I think most conservative/religious Americans understand this.
————————–
Nonetheless, it is a good debate topic but understand the intent of those who bring it up.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:17pmI understand. Let them mock.
Report Post »godhatesacoward
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:10amLet’s Roll!
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:13amGood advice, but it’s just so difficult. I have seen horrible, horrible things all over newspaper opinion pages, talk shows, magazines like the rolling stones and Newsweek, most of the Internet, and even comments from some of the users on here that just make me want to cry.
It’s inescapable. And I know these sorts of agitations are called ‘Fabian tactics’ (a term worth looking up) and I also don’t know how to respond to these kinds of tactics besides a strategy of fighting fire with fire. But we must fight fire with water, hatred with love. We have our work cut out for us
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:45amWe do have much work cut out for us, Cabrito.
I really don’t know what is next or how to be prepared for it.
No one does.
There is a certain beauty in that…
I can’t put into words what I think is happening to humanity.
All I can say is “slow down, let;s think about this”
Religion always provides this skeptical respite.
It is a needed respite.
Report Post »4GODUSAANDISRAEL
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 5:15pmActually NJ, the THEORY of relativity WAS disproven by a group of scientists with CERN in September of 2011. Don’t you read the news? It was all over the place for like a week.
Report Post »horseyfied
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:49pmYea kids….that fiery ball of gas 93 million miles away that warms us daily, just happened, Oh yea….don’t forget about the moon controlling the tides and gravity….completely accidental. We breath oxygen …..WOW trees give us oxygen!!! who’d a thunk it. Definitely no signs of a Creator on this planet.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:00pm“I can’t explain it so it must be a God!”
That’s your argument.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:18pmYou could use a little insight.
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:09pmThen explain polio, smallpox, and parasites.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:06am“… imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact, it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’
-Douglas Adams
Report Post »Freebird
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:13am@ScienceIsNotEvil
Report Post »As soon as you explain the periodic table of elements without a Creator.
NJBarFly
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:34amFreebird – We understand very well how elements are made. They are formed through the process of fusion inside stars. Lighter elements fuse into heavier ones. Once a star reaches iron, it requires more energy to fuse the elements and the star super novas, creating the remaining elements in the periodic table. Not only do we have lots of evidence for this, we actually see stars going super nova all the time.
Just because you don’t understand how something works, doesn’t mean that god did it.
Report Post »Freebird
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:21amNJBarFly
Report Post »Maybe you can tell us all how you get uranium from hydrogen?You’ve observed this fusion taking place in the stars,were able to measure and record the elements present when this fusion took place?Also,in your statement ,the star must go supernova for the lighter elements to exist,so maybe you can explain how they were MADE on earth,and continue to exist here,without this planet blowing up,like your star?
JACKTHETOAD
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 5:06am@SCIENCE – Maybe, just maybe, the smaller you get (around these parts) the more power is entrusted to you. Microbes don’t think. They do.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 8:44amFred – They weren’t made on Earth. They were made billions of years before the Earth and Sun were created, when other stars went super nova. However, if you are a young Earth creationist, then I’m not going to waste any more time with this. You’ve already made up your mind and no amount of facts and evidence will change that. If you legitimately want to learn about it, I can point you in the right direction.
Report Post »Tigress1
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 10:44amIt’s interesting that the Vatican has a huge telescope. Are they looking for God? Aliens? Proof of the Big Bang? The religious aren’t afraid of science. However, the atheists simply deny the existence of a God and shut a blind eye to possibilities.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 10:48amTigress1 – No, that means that Catholics aren’t afraid of science. Don’t lump the rest of the fundies in there with them. Young Earth creationists are indeed hostile to science.
Report Post »Freebird
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 11:17am@NJBarFly
At what point in your argument did you use “facts”?You stated your opinion,you gave no “facts”,only supposition.I simply asked you to prove your supposition.And now you’re stating that because you think that I believe different from you,that you have no need to prove anything?Man that’s some weird science you got there.
You‘re telling me that I’m just gonna have to take your word for it?That all the elements found on earth were created by exploding stars,really,you’re stickin with that?Where’s your evidence?Isn’t that what science is all about,providing evidence to back up a theory,and if the “facts” don’t fit the theory,the theory is bogus?
I guess you can’t explain how all the elements came to be here,not some distant star,because by your theory,the only way they can be made is by a star exploding.And yet all the elements are found on earth?PLEASE EXPLAIN.
BTW, My moniker is FREEBIRD NOT fred.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:23pmFreebird – Currents estimates indicate the universe to be approximately 14 billion years old. Our solar system is estimated to be approximately 4.5 billion years old. This means that many stars formed and went super nova well before our solar system was formed. This formed large clouds of dust and gas called nebula. Over billions of years, these nebula mixed with other nebula until there was a critical mass of dust and gas and it collapsed, forming our solar system.
We can see this currently happening other areas of the galaxy, in large nebula such as the Pillars of Creation (link below). You can also find a boatload of scientific papers and websites explaining this is much more detail by Googling. If you want more details, here is a link to NASA.
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-345/contents.htm
http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/1995/44/image/a/
Report Post »Freebird
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:15pm@NJBarFly
From the link you provided:
Theories concerning the origin of the Sun and other stars clearly also must have a foundation in hydromagnetics and plasma physics. Even if appropriately constructed, SUCH THEORIES ARE BY NECESSITY SPECULATIVE AND UNCERTAIN. For this reason, in the present study of the formation of the solar system, WE DO NOT RELY ON ANY INITIAL ASSUMPTIONS concerning the primeval Sun or its history EXCEPT that during the hetegonic era IT EXISTED and was surrounded by a plasma. From our analysis of the solar system, however, we can draw specific conclusions about the primeval Sun: Its mass was approximately the same as today, but its spin and magnetization were much larger.
SERIOUSLY?Do you even read your own links before you post them?
To paraphrase MODERATIONISBEST;You can’t explain it so it must be evolution.
Is that YOUR argument?
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:50pmFreebird – Whoa! There is some uncertainty in the details. I guess you are right! The universe was created in 6 days less than 10,000 years ago! I’ll alert the media and the scientific journals. Someone on the Blaze with absolutely no knowledge of science or higher mathematics managed to prove every single astrophysicist wrong. Incredible! I humbly stand corrected. Maybe for an encore you can disprove the theory of relativity. I mean, it’s only a theory, right?
Report Post »4GODUSAANDISRAEL
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 5:25pmjust a quick repost; Actually NJ, the THEORY of relativity WAS disproven by a group of scientists with CERN in September of 2011. Don’t you read the news? It was all over the place for like a week
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 8:26pm4God – No, it was not disproven. In one experiment, the speed of neutrinos appeared to travel faster than light. This result didn’t match the results from every other experiment regarding neutrinos. Upon further investigation it was determined that there was a flaw in the experiment. Theories are not over turned from one experiment. The experiments must be independently verified and repeated.
Report Post »Freebird
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 8:44am@NJBarFly
Since this discussion began I have asked for an explanation of how the elements came to be on earth,and how they continue to exist in OUR WORLD.What you’ve given me is speculation and textbook propaganda,you’ve told me a fairy tale that begins “Once upon a time,in a galaxy far,far,away.” Not once did you answer any of my legitimate questions,rather,you point me to a government-run agencies website,the very government that is pushing evolution in public schools.-NO BIAS THERE HUH?
The truth is,you have no answer to any questions raised about your beloved evolution religion,all you can do is quote the teachers and proponents of this religion.Then,when you are pressed further,you resort to trying to bully the person asking the questions into silence with a condescending post about their intelligence.Is that how you saw it done in the classroom?Anyone with an objection to,or question about evolution is ridiculed into just going along,were you once that person?
I have tried to appeal to your reference for science,by asking questions that require scientific thought,in an effort to get you to think for yourself,research the answers for yourself.All I’ve gotten in return is snarky criticism of my beliefs and intelligence.
I do hope one day you learn how to think for yourself,and I pray to the Creator,that He will reveal Himself to you in such a way that all disbelief will be dispelled.
MAY GOD GRANT YOU EVERY THING YOU DESERVE.
Report Post »reality_check
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 8:55amI’ve also found that when in doubt an atheist always seems to go for a quote or an improper appeal to authority when they should be going for evidence to support their position. They are also masters of statistical chicanery as well.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 9:27amFreebird – As I sated earlier, there is nothing I can say that will convince you other wise. You have been brainwashed from a very young age to believe in your myths and no amount of science will sway you. I tried provide you with an unbiased source, ie NASA, but I forgot, everything that disagrees with your position is some agenda driven conspiracy.
Yes, I often appeal to authority. I understand how physics works, and how the scientific method works. I know that physics is is difficult and requires years of study and even then, many people do not have the intelligence to master it. The amount of mathematics knowledge required is well beyond most peoples comprehension. Scientists are also very critical of each other. If a scientist makes an error, the rest of the community will be there to criticize. So yes, when it comes to cosmology, I trust all of the worlds astrophysicists over the non-scientists here at the Blaze. The amount of arrogance it takes to think that you know more about cosmology than astrophysicists is staggering.
It seems that fundies are the most unreasonably critical and skeptical people when it comes to science, yet they believe stories like Jonah and the whale or Noah’s ark without question. These are stories that a 6 year old can plainly see are ridiculous. I guess there is nothing more to say here other than debating science with a fundie is both futile and pointless.
Report Post »Freebird
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 12:20pm@NJBarFly
Perhaps a few quotes from one,if not the,greatest physicist of all time will help you.
“In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I,with my limited human mind,am able to recognize,there are yet people who say there is no God.But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views.”
“I want to know how God created this world.I am not interested in this or that phenomenon,in the spectrum of this or that element.I want to know His thoughts.The rest are details.” Albert Einstein
So,it would appear,contrary to your belief, Einstein didn’t see it your way at all.And you can continue to put down my intelligence in your posts,but how are you going to argue with the greatest mind of modern science.You already look foolish for avoiding all my questions and going on the attack.How are you going to attack Albert Einstein,who exceeds all of your qualifications as an expert in the field of physics?Hmmm?
BTW you don’t have to be a scientist to know there is a God,He made this world.It belongs to Him.He makes the rules.You might not believe events in the Bible,but you believe this universe came into being by itself,man came from some primordial soup,and everything you can see evolved?
Report Post »That takes a lot more faith than believing “In the beginning,God created the heaven and the earth.”
NJBarFly
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 3:25pmFreebird – There are plenty of scientists that believe in god. As a matter of fact, I would say that most scientists believe in god. I very much doubt that they believe in young Earth creationism and I also doubt there are very many fundamentalists. They almost universally believe that the universe is approximately 14 billion years old.
As far as Einstein goes, he had very little interest in religion. While I don’t think he was an atheist, his views were probably more in line with deists. He often made metaphorical quotes like the one you listed.
A better example would be Newton. He was certainly a very religious man. This is all irrelevant though. Religious or not, the overwhelming majority of astrophysicists accept big bang cosmology. The only few that don’t, work for groups like Answers in Genesis. None of their theories have been printed in any main stream academic journals and are generally dismissed by the physics community. If you can find one, let me know. I would love to read it.
Report Post »snufy
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:46pmFact check preachers? First off, these morons don’t go to church to even listen to there pastors. Second, the fact check for them is to read the Bible, which is totally foreign to them. Kids are subject to wanting to be like the rest of the big boys, which accounts for a lot of it. The evidence of God is all aroound us in His creations. How do they think they came to be? How do they think such a perfect world and everything in it came to be, if it wasn’t created by God? Wake up, people. Don’t follow the crowd to Hell. Do something totally different…read the Bible.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:16pmRight on!
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Report Post »Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:35pmYoung or old; if you read and study the Bible and the underlying message of Christ; it is clear as crystal.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:47pmYou keep believing that.
It’s completely unfounded but yup, keep believing it.
Funny thing is, Jews, Mormons and Muslims all the same as you, “It’s so clear cut and obvious.”
Not to mention, it’s not so clear cut since there are so many varieties of Christianity. There are many denominations and all claim divinity around their interpretation of it and some even go as far as calling other people who don’t follow their interpretations fake Christians.
It‘s so man made it’s hilarious.
Report Post »rose-ellen
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:50pmOur new religion is americanism.Beck is its champion.
Report Post »Vegascelt
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:57pm@MIB At the end of your life you might want to get some sunblock with an SPF of 1 million or higher.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:02pm@VEGASCELT
I hear hell has a heated pool. Sign me up!
Typical religious threat, “You’ll find out after you die!”
Give me a break.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:08pmTron……….Yes it is crystal clear and I feel sadness for the ones who will not see. Time is short now and the constant assault on God and His Son is ginning up. The atheists seem more angry and more determined in their crusade against believers than ever before.
Report Post »IM4GOD
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:15pm@Moderationisbest … Isn’t it at all interesting to you how every single follower of Jesus DIED for what they beileved and what he taught? Isn’t it strange that the bible has been around for over 2000 years and everything in it is still relevant today? Isn‘t it strange that there are still apes that haven’t evolved? We have been given a mind and body that is simply incredible. It can heal itself without even thinking about it, it can reproduce itself from two tiny cells into trillions of cells we call humans in just 9 months with a mind that is more powerful than any computer we have yet to develop. There is so much that we simply don’t know because it is not seen, yet it exists. For you to think you are just some blob of cells that somehow ended up on this planet to simply eat, sleep and die is pretty freakin ignorant. Haven’t you ever wondered why EVERY single person who has experienced a near-death experience has completely changed their lives afterwards. It is because they saw (every one of them) that there is something else beyone this physical world that we live in. So to you .. I say …KEEP DISBELIEVING … maybe some day you will discover that there is indeed things that are not black and white and are not visible to people with closed hearts.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:20pmCorrection… Clearer than crystal. ;-)
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:30pm@IM4GOD
“Isn’t it at all interesting to you how every single follower of Jesus DIED for what they beileved and what he taught?” People die for delusions all of the time. Muslims die for their religion. Because they died for it doesn’t lend credence to the claims they made. If I die for Zeus, does Zeus then exist? No.
“Isn’t it strange that the bible has been around for over 2000 years and everything in it is still relevant today?” There are tons of things that aren’t relevant in it. Also, 2000 years is a drop in the bucket. Even if you are a young Earth Creationists who believes the world is 10,000 years old. Christianity has only been prevalent 20% of the time. If you accept science and think that humans as we see them today have been around for 100k+ years, 2,000 years is NOTHING.
” Isn‘t it strange that there are still apes that haven’t evolved? ” You don’t understand evolution. Common day “monkeys” don’t turn into humans over time. Chimpanzees and humans share a common ancestor that was likely more chimpanzee than human. Evolution isn’t a single chain that leads from a single cell to humans. Read up on it, even if you don’t accept it, it’s interesting to read.
“Haven’t you ever wondered why EVERY single person who has experienced a near-death experience has completely changed their lives afterwards.” Again, people are prone to delusions and mis-apprehensions. You also made a claim with providing zero evidence.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:47pm@IM4GOD
It is also you who accept this world as black or white. You’re the one who believes that a book(the Bible) is either all true or all false. You believe that if you’re not going to Heaven(hasn’t proven to exist) that you will go to hell(hasn’t proven to exist).
Report Post »IM4GOD
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:54pm@ModerationIsBest
Report Post »No one is here to try to show you anything. If you can look at the stars or look at a new born baby and say that it all came from some big bang … more power to ya. Again .. it is not my place to change your mind. I CAN tell you that spirits are real,, I CAN tell you that I have encountered a demon spirit in my lifetime. If something like that exists, there must be an oposite. That was not a dilution, as 3 others in the room saw the same thing, and we were all scared to death. This spirit appeared .. which means it was NOT visible before we saw it. That right there proved to me that there is a whole lotta stuff we stupid humans just don’t get. Again, you can call it a dilution of 4 different people at the exact same time .. but there are 4 people (me one of them) that would call you blind. I would love to know what you think the purpose of life is for you? Can you see love .. no but it exists. Are you really betting on science that continually changes its mind. I just watched a video of (I think was some Chinese doctors) that literaly healed a person’s tumor (on camera) in less than 3 minute using thought … Can’t see that either. It is just amazing to me how someone like yourself can truly believe that everything just happened, or better said that you truly believe in nothing. How can millions and millions of people all over the world be wrong .. but you got it right ?????
TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:06amOK, I’ll keep believing it. It would take exponential faith not to.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:53am@IM4GOD
If you saw “demon spirits” and admit to it then I say you’re delusional. I would also want a scientific study done of what you saw and if you all saw EXACTLY the same being. There will always be “stories” of group visions, etc. Usually things like that involve someone seeing something, and then the others either knowingly or unknowingly start agreeing and saying they saw the same thing. It’s group thinking(fear of exclusion/being different from the group).
I remember even as a teenager trying to go to sleep one night. Then I spotted something in my closest, I SWEAR I thought it was a pair of eyes looking back at me. I then got frightened and started to see other shapes(something that would start to resemble a face, and a body, etc). I turned on my light and there was literally NOTHING there. The human brain is a powerful thing easily capable of deceiving oneself, look at all of the different types of purely mental disorders(Stockholm Syndrome, etc)
Look at this link to another blaze article(the study itself is old but it’s fun to look at).
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/can-pass-this-fascinating-test-of-your-attentiveness-we-didnt/
The mere fact that so many people “Believe” yet believe different things and all command the same type of divinity with NO proof makes me think I’m more right. Each religion “believes” the other God‘s don’t or never existed, but THEIRS does. Give me a break.
Report Post »AUsername
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:33pmbecause we are being talk to think more than our ancestors have and it will be a good thing because we will be a generation of thinkers and independence, religion is a cancer that has been destroying many people’s chances to be all they could be. Godless and Free is the way to be.
Report Post »CAPTAINAMERICA24
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:43pmyou know, i have a lot of questions myself… but look around. do you really think that all of this just came about by chance? I have personally witnessed what i believe to be miracles in life. Yes, i may have questions… but not doubts.
Report Post »Sunnyy
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:43pmIt is very possible that you can’t chose to be “godless & free”…someday you just might meet Him…then what?
Report Post »calvertcitypastor
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:06pmIf you are being taught to think at such a sophisticated level, why do you write like you’ve never heard of grammar?
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:25pmAgree calvertcitypastor. Ausername seems to be grammatically challenged, and it may not stop there.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:21pmThis sounds the way every younger generation feels. They have the answers. The older ones just messed up. You need to put in a few more years. Have a job. Have a child. Loose your parents. Pay taxes. Buy a home. Pay a mortgage. These things have a way of making you a bit more humble and looking for non-material answer. Just wait. You’ll see. Hopefully, your fellow young folks won‘t mess things up so much that you don’t get the chance ( the OWS / anarchist crowd )
Report Post »KStret
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:18am“religion is a cancer”
The communists felt the same way about religion and look how that turned out. They only murdered about 100 million people. The French also felt the same way during the French revolution. They built a shrine for reason. Sending children to the Guillotine certainly is reasonable, isn’t it?
The problem is human nature not religion.
Report Post »RamonPreston
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 10:21am“grammatically challenged” I guess my age is showing. When I was young you were just plain “stupid.”
Report Post »strewth_cobber
Posted on June 25, 2012 at 4:33amI AGREE: RELIGION IS A CANCER!! Therefore it is wise to have a RELATIONSHIP with the Living Father!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaah-mazing! Such advances in these modern times.. new technologies, sciences, engineering, mechanics, medicine, planes, trains and automobiles, space travel (allegedly), the ability to kill one another, communications, information technology, personal computers, agriculture, et cetera (the list goes on) – many of these things visible even within one’s own lifetime (I born 1969). Some, as if overnight, have been developed.
And yet, there are more illiterates and more stupid people in the world today, than there were 100 hundred years ago!
Go figure.
Report Post »Sunnyy
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:32pm“…Lemmon had two Atheists on his show to debate why…“ Not much of a ”debate.”
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:42pmI didn’t watch the video, but did the people on the show call it a “debate” or were they more discussing why they think that is. There is a difference.
If they didn’t clarify that it was a debate, you should fault The Blaze for their choice of words. If they did say it was a debate, then you have somewhat of a point, though I could simply say that different atheists could have different viewpoints on why they think that.
It wasn’t a “debate” about the existence of God, it was a “debate” as to why more people are doubting the existence of a God. There are not two clear cut sides, each presenting a case as to why their side is correct.
Also someone doubting the existence of a God doesn‘t mean they are saying that they believe a God doesn’t existence. They are just saying they doubt it it at times.
Report Post »Sunnyy
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:09pm@moderation
agreed…I think they meant discussion.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:29pmBECAUSE… Teachers promote that they know More Than the Parents… and a belief in GOD is not Scientific… so one must be Illiterate or Stupid to believe in GOD!
And… Teachers do this… because this is what they were taught in College!
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:23pmMany parents have failed their children. Science is simply what man uses to try and understand how and define what our Creator has already accomplished.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 11:11pm@MEY…
Report Post »Science… is Observation & Investigation that leads to a Formula… where the Formula can be Tested and always produces the Same Result 100% of the time… and anything less is a Pseudo Science. And, Scientists whom give an Opinion are not engaged in Science, but in Communication of Beliefs as if engaged in a Religion!
Freebird
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 12:27am@lukerw
Report Post »That is the best definition of evolution I have ever seen posted.THANK YOU!
justangry
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:27pmWhy would anyone want people to have doubts? I mean, I have my own, but believe I‘d be a happier person if I didn’t. Guess that’s the difference between an agnostic and athiest.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:43pmREASON IT OUT! GOD is Infinite & Eternal (TimeLess; not in Time)! The Universe is Finite (Measured, Oval. amd Spining)… from the Big Bang (a singularity) set in Time… where the Source to provide Energy for the Creation is Not in the Universe… where Time acts to make everything Mortal, from Life to Half-life all things decay. So, eventually, the Whole Universe will Decay… and all existence, then and now, will become MEANINGLESS. Then, why are you Moral and Obey Laws?
The Fact is Life only has MEANING, if GOD Exists and has a Plan that includes you! Where, most people believe that part of that Plan is Soul… which is a representation of you!
Pick one: MEANINGLESSNESS & INSANITY… or GOD!
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 9:45pmWhy would anyone want to doubt that the world was flat?
Why would anyone want to doubt that the Sun revolves around the Earth?
Doubt about the way the world works is what leads people to try and find out the way the world works.
Doubt isn’t a bad thing.
Report Post »Skepticism isn’t a bad thing.
momrules
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:00pmHi Just Angry………..I think you are fine. You admit you have doubts but do not dismiss God or disparage Him or the people who have faith in Him. I believe God may be working in your life more than you know.
I don’t know if you ever talk to God but maybe you should give it a try. He already knows you, knows all your doubts and won’t be surprised at anything you tell Him.
Blessing on you Just Angry.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:03pm@MODERN…
You would have us believe that all people thought that the Earth was Flat… when it was just certain Europeans, typically those who sailed the Oceans… and the Ancient Egyptians drew it as Round. In fact… the Fear Mongering Flat Earthers are alike the Global Warming people.
It is not Doubt that drives curiosity… rather a Thrist for Knowledge (desire to know)! But, not being able to Know… the Unknown & Everything (GOD)… drives the Science Worshiper INSANE!
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:04pm@Luke
“The Fact is Life only has MEANING, if GOD Exists and has a Plan that includes you! Where, most people believe that part of that Plan is Soul… which is a representation of you!”
Okay, you have NO understanding of what the definition of the word “fact” is.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:13pm@Luke
“Science worshiper” Hahahahahaha.
I love how religion always tries to force their world view on other people, almost to bring them down to religions level.
No one worships science as science can’t be worshiped.
A thirst for knowledge is to doubt that you already know.
For instance, people claimed to know what caused volcanoes and earthquakes. It was their doubt as to their reasons why that created a thirst for knowledge.
Plus, the Holy books and their followers claim to know everything that there is to need to know. You also claim to know the unknowable. Again, you claim to know why something is, without any evidence. It is people‘s doubts of your claims that drives them to try to see if you’re wrong.
It doesn’t drive me insane to not know everything, what does annoy me is that you claim to know the unknowable, without evidence and then claim you don’t need evidence.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 23, 2012 at 10:59pm@MODERN…
A Religious Meaning is a Truth; A Scientific Observation is a Fact; A observation that is Always True is a Fact & a Truth!
You do not Know Everything… but Science is based upon Theory & Research, seeking to Know Everything… so Scienists are either seeking to be God or to Know GOD… which makes it a Religion! But, until you Know Everything… you cannot claim that another Religion is False or anyone else is Wrong about GOD.
Your ERROR in Thinking makes you INSANE!
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:18am@LUKERW
Just because it‘s a religious meaning doesn’t mean it’s true. You flatly said, “The Fact is Life only has MEANING, if GOD Exists and has a Plan that includes you! Where, most people believe that part of that Plan is Soul… which is a representation of you!”
That is ABSOLUTELY not a fact, at all.
Here we go again, religion calling science a religion.
It‘s so laughable that it’s hilarious.
I also never claim that you are wrong, I say that it is unlikely that you are right(and you don’t provide evidence) and if what you said is true…..then you have NO right by your own admission to say that Islam is false.
Islam is as equally true to Christianity by your own “reasoning(if we call it that)” You don’t know EVERYTHING, therefore you can’t claim to say that Islam is wrong, or Mormonism, or Judaism, or believing in Zeus, or Scientology or ANY “belief” system.
The fact is, science isn’t a “belief” system. It is actually observable and falsifiable. Scientists are always actively trying to prove each other wrong and are always trying to find a better understanding for how this world actually works.
Religion doesn’t do that. It claims to know everything without providing evidence of this world to back it up but instead relies on special pleadings and threats of, “well you’ll find out after you die.”
it also immediately rejects any counter claims because counter claims contradict their own claims, which we know couldn’
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:03am@MODERN…
We were not speaking of individual Religions, at this point in time… and I reject your attempt to Change the Subject.
I said… if GOD does not exist… then the Whole Universe and all it’s is History is MeaningLess… because it all must decay… leaving No Memory nor Record nor Purpose… so you can commit any Crime that you desire and people can kill you… for being MeaningLess, is alike a Dream, AND WHO CARES!
If you do not think that GOD Exists… then why argue about… unless you desire to Convert others to your Belief? In fact… you are acting alike a Religious Evangelist… but for a Pseudo Sceince that cannot produce Proof of Non Existence… for without Proof you have no scientific foundation. On the other hand… Religion requires No Proof… because it is Faith based… and admits it. So, again, your Logic is in ERROR!
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:31am@MODERN…
Report Post »PS… Islam is Not a Religion! Islam is a Theocracy… consisting of… a State called the Caliphate… and a Religion called Mohammedism… where the Ideology is World Wide Conquest… and where the Koran is used for the inspiration of Muslims in their Holy War. Hence, it is nothing alike Christianity… just read the Gospels & the Koran and compare!
ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 2:56am@Luke
You can derive meaning out of life while you are living. Just because I don’t think anything happens after I die, doesn’t mean life is meaningless. To say otherwise is idiotic.
Because a vacation doesn’t go on forever, does that mean I can‘t enjoy the vacation while I’m on it? No, in fact the vacation is more enjoyable because it ends. Plus, part of the enjoyment of vacation is knowing that at some point you get to go back to the comfort of your own house.
I don’t desire to convert you to anything. All I care about is trying to reach a common ground and open a discussion. I enjoy discussing these things, I don’t go door to door, or talk to my friends about being an Atheist. I don’t think people are damned to an eternity of torture for not being an Atheist.
Once again, you are taking the negative connotations of religion and trying to apply it to Atheism or science because it makes you feel better about your belief.
The fact that you say Atheism is a “belief” is laughable. I don’t “believe” in anything. Belief and believe are idiotic terms to me. I choose to think about things, and rely on evidence.
I‘m glad you at least admit you don’t care about evidence. You happily admit you’re deluded by faith and that none of the claims you make are actually true, you just “believe” they are true.
Islam is a religion, just like Christianity. Christianity forced people throughout the centuries to convert or die, now it’s Islams t
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:25pm@MODERN…
If this entire Exchange… takes place upon a World, in a Universe… in a Dream… you cannot prove that your Life Exists, experienced Happiness nor Pain, nor how this all came to be (alike Evolutionists & and the Religion of Darwinism). Maybe if you study Zen & Enlightenment, these concepts might have more meaning.
Science & Religion seek the came Conclusion: TRUTH (GOD)! These are not forces of Opposition… rather one can be a Scientist & Religious… where most people understand one, not the other… and where you seem not to understand either. In fact… Inpiration for Scientific Research… is not unlike… Communications of the Holy Spirit… as set forth in Relativity and Acts.
You seem to need a Mentor to guide you through some thought processes… for what you have invented upon your own are In ERROR (alike your position upon Islam). To start, just go back and actually read what I wrote… rather than creating your self interpreted Implications, which you Infer to mean something that was not stated, but supports your position.
You acting alike a Liberal Provocateur… claiming to be of Superior Intellect, but uneducated. Focus upon an Issue, and debate it, without wandering to another subject, or Self claiming Victory.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on June 24, 2012 at 1:43pm@LUKERW
Your “arguments” are full of your opinions and not facts and then when you are asked for evidence you say, “I already gave it” and then you later say, “I don’t need evidence.”
I have NEVER claimed to be a “superior intellect” so that is a straw man and a laughable accusation. See, I actually respond to what you write instead of making continual straw man arguments.
“To start, just go back and actually read what I wrote… rather than creating your self interpreted Implications, which you Infer to mean something that was not stated, but supports your position.”
Why don’t you be more specific so I can actually go back and see where you say I supposed “created self interpreted implications.”
Religion doesn’t “seek” truth. It already claims to have truth. Religion doesn’t care about truth, it only cares about trying to distort truth to fit pre-determined opinions(from a holy book) on what the truth is. Any time truth is actually asserted that is counter to the Bible you get:
1. A denial from religious people
2. Trying to actively fight against it
3. Eventually accepting it and saying, “well our God created everything, so it fits within my religious belief.”
There are Muslims who don’t interpret the Quran as justifying a caliphate. There are some that do. Theocracy isn’t only applicable to specific religions, any country could become a theocracy.
Report Post »