Concept Photos: IT Startup to Skirt Around Immigration Law With Floating Vessel
- Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:34pm by
Liz Klimas
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Blueseed, a company that seeks to incubate the best entrepreneurial ideas in the tech industry, wants to make it easier to bring the tech masterminds from around the world to the Silicon Valley. To do so, it plans to bypass years of immigration reform by taking its business just outside — or shall we say offshore — from California’s coast.
One of Blueseed's concept designs. (Image via Wired)
Last month, Ars Technica interviewed Blueseed co-founder and CEO Max Marty, who acknowledged that overall immigration reform may be a better way to go but for now is planning to set up shop 12 miles outside of U.S. boundaries in the Pacific Ocean:
Immigration law makes it difficult for many would-be immigrants to get permission to work in the United States. For example, there’s an annual cap on the number of H1-B visas available for American employers to hire skilled immigrant workers. However, permission to travel to the United States for business or tourism is much easier to get.
Marty pointed to the B-1 business visa as a key part of his company’s strategy. With a B-1 visa, visitors can freely travel to the United States for meetings, conferences, and even training seminars. B-1 visas are relatively easy to get, and can be valid for as long as 10 years.
Blueseed plans to provide regular ferry service between the ship to the United States. While Blueseed residents would need to do their actual work—such as writing code—on the ship, Marty envisions them making regular trips to Silicon Valley to meet with clients, investors, and business partners.
[...]
Marty tells us that getting permission to enter the United States permanently becomes much easier once a firm grows. “If you have a $5 million-10 million company, there are several avenues and channels you can use to be in the country,” he said. So the Blueseed ship would provide temporary lodgings until a startup grew large enough to move to the mainland.
On Tuesday, Wired got an exclusive look at the concept designs for the “visa-free offshore technology incubator”. Wired notes that this idea has gotten some financial backing from big names such as PayPal founder Peter Thiel.
A concept design for Blueseed. (Image via Wired)
But is this legal and will it stand? Wired asked Gabriel Jack, an immigration attorney at the firm MJ Law in Silicon Valley, who said it appears so:
[...] he points out that workers on the floating incubator will need valid visitor visas, which can be good for up to 10 years. “There’s nothing in the [visa] law that says how often you can visit the United States. If they make it clear that they work in international waters and are using a visitor visa to stay on land,” he says. “I don’t see how the immigration department can do anything about it legally.”
As you might imagine, the hopes of running a business on a floating vessel comes with some challenges. Wired had a Q&A session with the three founders to go over some of these details. The founders say they are currently researching things like how best to get Internet capability as well as power on the ship or barge. The team seem to be considering a cruise ship for economical reasons, but Dan Dascalescu, CIO, said that “No matter what we go with, we want to be the Googleplex of the sea.”
(Image via Wired)
Watch Marty explain the Blueseed idea to potential investors — interrupted by applause and laughter from the crowd:
Check out Marty’s recent clip on Fox Business:
Right now, the company is acquiring investors, but Marty states that they plan to be launching the vessel in under two years.
Read the rest of Wired’s Q&A with the founders and see more concept design images here. Learn more about the company at Blueseed’s website.
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Comments (117)
TexBork
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:41pmTell me there’s no taxes and then you can count me in! Looks like a pretty good gig!
Report Post »booger71
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:58pmI can foresee small cities being formed with like minded people with small security forces,, and a small but up to date hospital, outside of the long arm of the government. These would have the smallest governments on earth, and one would need to sign a statement not to get in each others business before you could live there. No taxes, except everyone would pay exactly the same for common area upkeep, security, and hospital costs.
Report Post »SgtB
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 8:22pmThe idea is called sea-steading and it is not particularly new. If they already had some of these you can bet your arse I’d be on one of them. We could use the same type of tech that we already have to make drill platforms and make entire floating cities. They’d also increase local fish populations as edible waste was dumped over and by shear virtue of the fact that structures in water provide habitable breeding grounds that can support tens or hundreds of tons of fish. I’d love to live on one of these things.
Report Post »Puddle Duck
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 8:29pmBeing 200 miles out in the open ocean is not waht I would call living…mother nature has a perpensity for screwing up mans plans. Maintenence on this thing would be very difficult and when it’s time to overhaul the hull where do you go ? Stupid idea IMO.
Report Post »Anarcho Capitalist
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 8:30pmBOOGER71
Report Post »Read – For a new liberty. by Rothbard. In the end the state will be dissolved by the market. People will look back at the idea of government like they do the idea of beading sick people
SoulReaver
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 9:00pmWho is gonna protect these things? If they pay no taxes will it be us?
Report Post »Brooke Lorren
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:28pmUnfortunately, unless you renounce your citizenship, the government will want you to pay taxes. I‘ve seen an article about how the US government is going after the taxes of dual citizens who didn’t even know that they held US citizenship.
Report Post »Miami
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 6:01amYes this is a great idea till a gang of pirates raid the ship and take them all hostage and President Ron Paul says we don’t intervene in foreign affairs. Or Obama says you all went out there to avoid our laws and taxes so you are on your own…
Before that once they have their first storm at sea it will be over
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 10:39amWe should sink them or at the very least not let them ever come ashore, and have to ship everything to there from foreign waters, they are going to be using our resources, They are planning to use our resources while paying no taxes, and reducing our high tech, already underpaid, and in to great of a supply, wadges. This is a lose, lose situation for America.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:24am@Swampy
They’re not employing illegal Mexicans to water lawns here guy, they’re employing really smart people to make things that you use day in and day out. You know, the people we actually want immigrating but that our government won’t allow to immigrate, all the while letting in illiterate central Americans by the droves.
“may be a better way to go but for now is planning to set up shop 12 miles outside of U.S. boundaries in the Pacific Ocean”
They better move that to 40+, I’ve heard that the new sea borders are 40 miles, not 12.
Report Post »chazman
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:56pm… yo dude, look at me! I live onuh barge!
Report Post »coindexter
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:23pmSHARKCHOMP…we’re not talking about pirates on rickety old ships. how do pirates in helicopters and sub’s sound to you? it’s every bit as imaginable as a floating city. as to where they would be stationed…have you heard of mexico and the prescence of OTM’s? or, gosh…how about just crashing a plane into a floating city. pull your head out bro’.
Report Post »TAXLORDCOMETH
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:30pmThere are a couple of communities that are doing this. It’s not all that simple. You have to be recognized as a soverign state by all the other nations etc…. Dubai is creating all these artificial islands for corporations or people who want to do this type of thing. Governments will crack down if they start losing revenue. I‘m not sure running away is a good solution to our nation’s problems,
Report Post »mils
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 3:28pmIt is wrong to NOT follow the laws of a land..it is wrong to “skirt” the laws…I dont believe for one minue that ANY OTHER COUNTRY WOULD ALLOW THIS.
Report Post »But America will. We are falling apart and have no value system left in most of the areas of our lives.
chirodoc007
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:17pmIt’s ridiculous that H1-B visas are so limited that these ships have to be considered. Unskilled immigrants can just walk across the border and political activists fight for their “rights”. Skilled workers however, capable of adding to our society, are limited. These skilled workers would have real jobs, they’d buy homes, pay taxes, and improve the lives of countless Americans by contributing to our economy. It is is shear insanity that this is necessary.
Report Post »Thevoice
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:21pmWell there you go ..I just knew the other day before the week was over, we would some how have the story of the Mother ship ..Now to finish the week we need a 007 to come along and take out George Sorors …All the other elements for the perfect unreality of today’s reality went right into place From lost sensitive military equipment , threats form Islamic nut jobs..Some terrorist bombings and on and on…One week to the next it gets better and better.
Report Post »John 1776
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:10pmWonder what the tax implications are on non-nation payroll ?
Report Post »coindexter
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:15pmnice concept…not doable. the chinese will do it cheaper.
Report Post »DrFrost
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:46pmFirst off, we send vessels out to sea in a big storm. It’s safer out there for them then near shore. So I don’t think this is impossible by any means. When was the last time you heard of a navy ship going down in a storm?
I’m much more concerned with how financially feasible it is. If the operating costs were $50/day/occupant with small cabins (a value that seems reasonable given the cost of cruise vacations) and you assume the average employee has one wife and one child then that’s another $60k per employee per year… but the corporation might get away from a lot of taxes doing this….
Report Post »bigfatslob
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:10pmShades of Atlas Shrugged !
Report Post »David, the Constitutional Libertarian
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:05pmI say create one of these and make it a libertarian/conservative nation unto itself. We can sell the technology to the highest bidders.
Hmmmm, where have I heard this idea before?
Processing
Processing
Processing
Oh yeah, Atlantis. Who is John Galt?
Report Post »Southernsoul
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:01pmYeah, that’s our problem, not enough educated workers. But, wait, unemployment is near 20% (true numbers). Maybe it’s too many regulations, too heavy a tax burden, and an education system that is more concerned with indoctrination instead of education.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:11pmOff-shore detention facilities / concentration camps?
Report Post »coindexter
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:12pmone word…pirates.
Report Post »Exrepublisheep
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:39pmWhy, whenever people talk about unemployment, they don‘t talk about the fact that jobs are disappearing because they’re going to other countries? Tax burdens, regulations, even unions are irrelevent because even of you eliminated all of these slave labor in china…or wherever, will still be cheaper.
Report Post »AmericanSince1619
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:58pmDoes ANYBODY remember the concept of an American employer/employee relationship. Before the most important thing in business was finding the cheapest offshore labor or 3rd world country to locate manufacturing ?
Capitalism didn’t fail, the implementation did. And this reeks of that failure.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 9:23pm@Exrepublisheep,
“Why, whenever people talk about unemployment, they don‘t talk about the fact that jobs are disappearing because they’re going to other countries? Tax burdens, regulations, even unions are irrelevent because even of you eliminated all of these slave labor in china…or wherever, will still be cheaper.”
Slave labor cannot compete with specialization and capital, and only a free-er market can allow these to exist. And jobs are leaving the US BECAUSE of the higher taxes and regulations which make our labor more expensive than slave labor (which is why China needs to steal technology).
Our Minimum Wage creates a barrier to entry for unskilled labor. You say how can people get ahead with no Minimum Wage; But the reason everything’s so expensive is because of the protections and regulations placed on businesses in the first place – When you get government out of the way, and as the economy becomes more capital intensive, prices fall relative to wages.
This is why Alcoa was able to sell its aluminum for so little, while workers made a good wage. But then the Sherman Act came and stifled – yes, stifled – competition through so-called “anti-trust” policies.
See here.
Anti-trust, Anti-truth
http://mises.org/daily/436
And here.
Defending the Undefendable (Chapter 23: The Importer) by Walter Block
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTT_WHyzZ54
UrbanCombatSurvivor
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:37pm@ExRepub:
Your argument doesn’t hold water. The cost of labor excuse only works without plugging in any facts.
For instance, once you add the *fact* that the average illegal worker in the US makes over 40k a year, you remove the silly notion that they’re working for scraps. That’s right at average, until you figure in the fact that they aren’t paying taxes. With all of the numbers included, illegals make almost 35% MORE money on average than other workers.
Is the “cost of labor” the problem here? No, the unions, the government regulations, and the burden of the two built onto a foundation of taxation into poverty are what cause the issue.
I don’t care how cheap labor is in china, have you seen the cost of FUEL? Can you *really* believe that the cost of labor alone offsets the cost of shipping a product all the way around the GLOBE, then distributing that product throughout the whole of the US? Please, apply some critical thinking skills here :)
Report Post »sharkchomp
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 2:44amOn the Pirates comment, The US Coast Guard will still protect the ships from attack… as they do off of Somalia… And where would a pirate base themselves anyway… California, Oregon??? Not a real threat…
Report Post »valleyfever
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:59pmThe cost of shipboard operations compared to land based more than offsets the saving from cheap imported technical labor. Interesting idea. When the winds blow and the seas kick up they’ll be puking all over their keyboards.
Report Post »tbl10
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:59pmNo need to worry about this, when the world economy crashes, there won’t be any money to build these businesses. Better yet I have a better idea, lets build them into lefty social utopia biospheres and we can just start sending the lefties out to sea. Make sure we put them out at the 200 mile mark, this way they are far enough not to be able to make it back to land when it fails. Not there’s a shovel ready job I can get behind.
Report Post »Cuthalu
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:57pmSedition or treason comes to mind after reading this story.
Report Post »Ari Ben TZion
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:52pm@ leumas
Why? I’ll tell you why.
These people know there is an endless supply of slave labor from hell-holes such as Romania.
Why in the world would these people pay a guy like me 90k dollars a year when they could bring a Romanian programmer, to do exactly the same job for 25K dollars a year?
Why?
Report Post »adastra2005
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:49pmThis debacle should be good for a few laughs.
Report Post »Ari Ben TZion
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:55pm@adastra2005
I’m afraid you’re wrong friend. What we are witnessing is not a debacle but the complete evisceration of the American way of life.
Soon America will be just another hell-hole like Russia, Mexico, Romania, India, Pakistan, etc.
Report Post »Ohio Guy
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:48pmJust have them cross the Mexican border, let Rick Perry educate them Mitt Romney hire them and Newt Gingrich defend their law breaking. Done and done!
Report Post »TelepromoterNChief
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:07pmMichelle Bachman can have them watch her kids while she is on the Sean crbaby Hannity Show.
Report Post »Oldphoto678
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:47pmGood to see that the world is starting to realize they don’t need big bad america.
Report Post »randy
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:08pmSo leave A$$wipe
Report Post »aLinedog
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:10pmI’m with the Big Z. Hail to the chief, baby.
Report Post »YoungBloodNews
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:46pmSo what happens when all the debris and toxic waste from fukishima hits in the coming year?
Report Post »Valerie Summer
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:41pmBrilliant, productive, and skilled workers can’t come here – but we financially support illegals that sneak across the border and sign up for welfare, medicaid, wic, etc. while they refuse to even learn English.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:41pmI would rather spend the money & time to train every White, black, Hispanic or Asian kid in the United State. It would only take 8 years at the longest. We don’t need more immigrants. We have enough people here.
Among the obstacles to having better educated kids, the NEA, Democrats, …
Report Post »Bill Wallace
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:39pmMaybe I can join and not pay taxes. Am a US citizen, pay property tax and maybe sales tax, but not income tax.
I am sure there is a way around paying the taxes, which means Congress will not let this venture proceed without locking things down.
Report Post »Ari Ben TZion
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:43pmI used to work for a software company where 70% of its employees were in the United States on H1 work visas.
Add to the all the H1 work visas, all the IT outsourcing jobs going overseas.
Now, some genius has come up with an even better idea – a ship to house all the Romanians, Russians Indians and Filipinos in international waters.
You guys know what this means? It means that’s its only a matter of time before I have to move to India to get programming job in the US.
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:49pmAs long as you are a U.S. person, U.S. tax code requires you to file a return & pay the appropriate tax. Sorry.
Report Post »jfwootten
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:08pmAnd if the ship were to get into trouble, I assume they will call the Indian government for help?
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:11pmNope, once the pirates or terrorists come aboard Obama will order the treasury to pay the ransom for the terrorists to sink the ship.
Report Post »Ruler4You
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:19pmSNOW LEOPARD I don’t think so. This is an in the open effort to subvert establishment sovereignty of (all) western nations. Especially the U.S. Accomplishing this goal is one of ‘Big O’s’ own agenda items. He’d defend it.
Report Post »symphonic
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:55pmRuler, not an effort to subvert, but a way to succeed, despite oppressive govt regulations and red tape. If only we could allow them to come here and help our economy, to pay some rent, or buy a home, and buy groceries. Heck, they don’t get a discount here just because they are from another country.
Report Post »SBR308
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:57pmThis idea will go no where!!
Report Post »hidden_lion
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:08pmWow, a floating, high-tech sweatshop. Good Idea, not.
Report Post »hidden_lion
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:09pmActually, the cartels could do the same thing, get a bunch of low wage (ie slave) workers an sit just off the coast in international waters.
Report Post »Cynic-clinic
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:34pmIf these foreign entrepreneurs (in waiting) are desperate to develop a great product, why can’t it be done between their country and the US using our high tech communication systems that exist today. After all, the iphone, ipad and all the other Apple advanced products were developed by brilliant people in the US and in China, Japan and Malasia. Advanced programming can be done anywhere in the world. Why do those immigrants have to come here??
Report Post »Also, if foreign brainiiacs can get a visa good for 10 years here, why can’t those people simply come here, develop their products as visitors in the many business incubators that already exist and work out the patents among the foreign and US laws. No one has to be a resident to create a product in the US. It seems that the 10 million dollar floating seed factory is nothing more than a huge PR scam to make a few upstart-startups rich with other people’s cash.
Link8on
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 11:13pmImagine 8 months after their initial ship launch, criminal triads and foreign organized crime cartels will find a way to hustle illegals on board.
After that, they can use that ship as just another beachhead into our harbors.
Report Post »Double_C
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:57pmThis is a sad example of why we need to reduce the size and role of Government. The only thing we have left over other Nations is our ability to innovate. This “innovation” culture is because of FREEDOM. Now that our Freedoms are being eroded/taken, entrepreneurs are looking for ways to succeed in spite of our oppressive laws.
Report Post »RamboTheDog
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:46pmyou are so wrong. It’s the governments colusion with companies like microsoft and the flooding of H1B visas that has decimated the onshore talent pool.
12 years ago an american computer programmer, contract worker at microsoft made 50+ dollars an hour plus benefits (no stock options)
Today that same job pays maybe 28-35 an hour, with no benefits – IF you can get a job because the foreigners at microsoft don’t like to hire americans.
Try making 45 percent less than you did 12 years ago..see how it feels.
Report Post »BrerRabbit
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:43pmIf we established discpline in our schools so kids could get a decent education, we would not need to bring in IT follks.
Report Post »txn4justice
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:50pmTrue, but that would require discipline.
Report Post »txn4justice
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:58pmDrill Sergeants of old are no longer permitted due to the whiny kids in boot camp, they write their congressman/woman to complain of abuse, which probably is false 99% of the time.. Discipline in the USA is something that needs to be revived.
Can anyone imagine trying to implement a draft today? How could you force the recruit to do anything including show up for bootcamp.
Report Post »AZBabe
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:27pmThey bring in foreign IT workers because they work for less money. It has nothing to do with there not being enough Americans to do the job. After you spend 80K to get a decent education to do the jobs, they expect a living wage, foreigners work for half of that.
I think the idea stinks.
Report Post »brntout
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:43pmIs this the Philadelphia experiment repeat? Or a bad Leggo commercial?
Report Post »NotPoliticallyCorrect
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:42pmHa! Just like L. Ron Hubbard evaded all government intrusion with his fleet of ships. Are they Scientologists?
Report Post »Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:51pmGood one, just what I was thinking.
Report Post »randy
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:41pmStupid
Report Post »AMERICA4EVER
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:39pmWell, they would make an easy terrorist target.
Report Post »txn4justice
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:48pmIt is sad we have to think like that, but you are right.
Report Post »