‘Disturbing Trend’: German Rabbi Faces Criminal Charges for Performing Circumcision
- Posted on August 22, 2012 at 10:59am by
Erica Ritz
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Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of Israel Yona Metzger briefs the media at the Federal Press Conference organization in Berlin. (Photo: AP)
Bavarian prosecutors have outraged the Jewish community after filing criminal charges against a German rabbi for performing a ritual circumcision, alleging the practice could constitute grievous bodily harm.
“The charges laid against a Jewish religious leader for performing a fully legal action is outrageous and a very troubling escalation, sending a deeply problematic message…” European Jewish Congress President Dr. Moshe Kantor said.
He continued: “It has been many decades since a Jew was charged for practicing Judaism openly and is reminiscent of far darker times. We hope that in Germany, of all places, the authorities would remain far more sensitive to this issue.”
The move follows a heated debate over the summer that German diplomats hoped would be quickly forgotten.
The AFP relates:
In a ruling published in June, a court in Cologne said removal of the foreskin for religious reasons amounted to grievous bodily harm and was therefore illegal, in a judgement that sparked an outcry at home and abroad.
Diplomats admit that the ruling has proved “disastrous” to Germany’s international image, particularly in light of its Nazi past, following uproar from religious and political leaders in Israel as well as Muslim countries.
Chancellor Angela Merkel reportedly told her party the country risked becoming a “laughing stock” over the ruling.
In July, German MPs adopted a cross-party motion calling on the government to protect religious circumcision. [Emphasis added]
A rabbinical student in Berlin holds his son during a circumcision ceremony in Berlin, Germany. (Photo: AP)
The Conference of European Rabbis is also urging the German government to speed up legislation, saying the charges “underline the urgent need” for the government to expedite the process of protecting “the fundamental rights” of minority communities.
The rabbis point out that Jews have been performing the practice for roughly 4,000 years, and that there are rarely complications. The rabbi who was charged, David Goldberg, has performed more than 3,000 since being trained and approved in 1997.
“Whoever insists we change this ritual is asking us to change our religion,” Metzger said, claiming it is like demanding “a Catholic priest [stop] celebrating Christmas.”
Israeli lawmaker Danny Danon said the charges are indicative of “disturbing trend,” and urged other Israeli lawmakers to speak out.
The government assures legislation protecting the rabbis will be passed “as soon as possible.”
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Comments (146)
Magyar
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 9:07pmWhat was the reason for bringing up this issue in the first place? What did they hope to accomplish with such an idiotic ruling?
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 9:38pmI was wondering the same thing when they tried it in California last year.
Report Post »Hollywood
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 1:22amThe purpose was to show that the ideology of Nazism is alive and well in Bavaria, as well as other EU countries. These stupid people, including the judge, do not realize THEY will, in the end, be judged by the Great Judge, for what they have done, and continue to do to Gods’ CHOSEN people. They should read Jeremiah 31:31.
Report Post »Shalom and Maranatha
progoyim
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 4:20pmTo learn who rules over you, simply find out who you’re not allowed to criticize.” – Voltaire
Report Post »barinttx
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 6:02pmThe reason that it is being brought up in this season is that Satan is up and working hard to cause as much harm to the Jews as he thinks possible. Gotta admit, more than 4000 years is a long time for a people to exist. Remember, Jesus was a Jew.
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 8:01pmprogoyim – I think that quote only works when you’re not in a republic.
Report Post »Wolfgang the Gray
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 9:06pmThose who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it.
“For it is the doom of man that they forget” – Merlin
Report Post »sldjulius
Posted on August 24, 2012 at 1:31pmIt‘s the implementation of the UN’s Conference on the Rights of the Child. They are intentionaly separating the rights of children from their parents’ guidance and authority and putting the sole authority for deciding and implementing those rights into the hands of the State.
Report Post »jdgalt
Posted on August 25, 2012 at 1:27pmThe purpose was to protect the fundamental right of a human being to keep all the parts he was born with, at least until he is old enough to be capable of giving informed consent. On this issue it’s the Jews who are prejudiced. Let them follow the same law as everyone else.
Report Post »mzk1
Posted on August 26, 2012 at 5:27amIt started as an attack on Muslims. As occurred during the reformation, the Jews are once again caught in the middle.
Report Post »freedomisasfreedomdoes
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 6:13pmRidiculous! What has happened to the world?
Report Post »hjablo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 7:40pmNothing new in Europe as far as Jews are concerned, this crap and a lot worse has been going on for a very, very, very, long time!.
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on August 24, 2012 at 1:03pmFreedomis, – What has happened to the world?
We have come to the last hours of the last days. – 2 Timothy 3:1-7
Report Post »hjablo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 4:34pmWhat do you expect from that country and that entire continent?. Their recent past is bathed in anti-semitism and they (Europe) run around acting like not much happened in the 1930‘s and 1940’s. I don;t get why Americans go over there, spending hard earned dollars, that benefit the kin of covert/overt, JewAmerican haters.
Report Post »hjablo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 4:43pmThere should be a / mark between Jew and American. Thanks.
Report Post »Aijahlon
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 5:34pmThere are two versions of history when it comes to Hitler and Nazi Germany, the excepted one that everybody has been spoon fed their whole lives, and the true one that people have been killed, severely beaten, and jailed for by the Jews in Germany, Canada, and other countries. The Jews have also made it illegal in a number of European countries to even question any aspect of the official (i.e. Jewish) version of the holocaust. You can be fined thousands of dollars, or spend years in prison. This is the only subject in the history of the world that is not allowed to be investigated or questioned. If you’re smart, you’ll ask yourself why, and start your own investigation instead of regurgitating the same lies you’ve been spoon fed your whole lives. Is there anybody here capable of independent thought? I’m beginning to think not.
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 8:40pmI’m still asking myself who all the people in death camps were and why they were wearing those funny looking clothes with stars on them… Are you serious dude?
Report Post »qpwo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 10:48pmI wouldn’t take this, of all issues, as an example of their being “Jew haters”. Muslims, if I have my facts straight, believe in female mutilation. Does disallowing this practice make us “Muslim haters”? My thought is that you can practice whatever religion you like up until such point as it interferes with the rights of others. No male child is born without a foreski’n, therefore, having such is what‘s healthy and getting rid of what’s healthy should be up to the child. You cannot oppose abortion (the rights of the unborn child) and at the same time think said child, when actually born, does not have the right to the healthy body is was born into. I am NOT a liberal, nor an I an anti-semite. You’ll have to disagree with me on intellectual grounds, not name-calling.
Report Post »blazingaway
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:10pmEurope is going to go through another cleansing… chances are if the Euro fails you will see more and more of what is happening in the Arab Spring. People without God are lawless and devoid of truth which is the only means of producing true virtue and honor that sustains and build a civilization … apart from that there is only temporary prosperity that is technology dependent and inevitably fails when the character of the people fails.
Report Post »Platonician
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:54pmThe ethnic cleansing is already happening in Europe, the MSN is not reporting it but France’s Socialist pro-islam president François Hollande has ordered the harassing and mass-expulsion of gypsies. Check here:
Report Post »http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/aug2012/fran-a10.shtml
http://www.euractiv.com/socialeurope/new-french-cabinet-fire-roma-exp-news-514281
SharonIsCaring
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 8:17pmAMERICAN’S please go reschool yourselves with the bible. So many confussed. Forgotten common sense. The bible is GOOD common sense. But, proving the #1 book around the world is TRUE as so many say has been difficut. What people don‘t know is scholars and scientist have been using forensic’s and science to look at the Shroud Of Christ, in the water’s where the RED SEA “really” parted, the DEAD SEA SCROOL’s,Island of Galapagos full of GOD’S 1st creatures ( were Darwin got his evolution theory)(evolution PROVEN wrong). See the scholar’s and scientist have discovered. YOU’LL BE AMAZED. I put all video in comment section for RESTORING LOVE(in faith section) and comment section from BIBLE CHALLENGE. SEE WITH YOU‘RE OWN EYE’S.
lukerw
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:07pmAfter the Arab Spring… “Spring Time for Hitler”…
Report Post »PAUL_THE_APOSTLE
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 5:41pmNow that was funny!
Report Post »mcsledge
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 1:51pmAlthough Germany does not have the US’ Constitution, acts against religion demonstrate Satan’s hold on the world. Dictatorships, Socialism, Communism, etc. are all mechanisms used by Satan to prohibit man’s moral agency to act according to his conscience.
Does Germany have an itching to turn back to their Nazi ways again?
Report Post »starman70
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:29pmDid Hitler really die in that bunker? His ideas didn’t and all over Europe, his spectre is appearing again.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:06pmIf you ever lived in Europe… you would know Nazism was NEVER erased!
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 1:48pmSo, if Rabbi David Goldberg is convicted, will he be sent to prison?
Report Post »Or a “relocation camp”?
Deeatonsr
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:31pmOr maybe a re-education camp….
Report Post »vaman
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 1:48pmWhat’s important to remember is the typical blaze reader does not support jews. As most are evangelical fundamentalist extremists, they probably hate jews. But they figure jesus will come back to Israel and the “good jews” will be born again, so stories like this are worth a little blaze attention. Make ‘em feel good to support the jews a little and when it’s against the Germans, then it’s a no-brainer.
Report Post »starman70
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:26pmI don’t know where you are coming from!!!! I am a dedicated BLAZE reader and I have always supported the Jews and Israel. Anybody with any sense KNOWS that JESUS was a JEW and his disciples were also Jewish. Christianity has its very basis in Jewdiasm.
I personally support Israel 100% and will continue to do so as ling as I live. I also support the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:58pmI think he’s coming from California.
Report Post »hillplus
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 4:05pmVaman=no-brainer.
Report Post »pcisbs
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 5:33pmThat had to be the most ridiculously stupid comment I have ever seen. Most readers? Stop displacing your lowly opinions on others. Personally, I don’t waste my time contemplating who I should designate into groups, so that I can hate therm. I’m certain that many, if not most, people share my perspective.
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 8:51pmWhen the Messiah does return he’ll be a practicing Jew dude. Jesus was JEWISH and he practiced JUDAISM – how can Christians not support him? So evangelicals are taught to hate – and better yet – they’re taught to hate their Messiah? HUH?!?
You think you’ve got everything figure out? Sounds like you don’t even understand Christianity, which is perhaps the simplest part of this issue to understand.
Report Post »StronzateDiDestra
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 1:42pmSave the poor children from all kinds of religious snipping, superstition and indoctrination.
Neither bible nor booze before they turn 21.
Report Post »JustinTexas
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 1:51pmWhy don’t you keep your ignorant comments to yourself
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:32pmWhy not just go all the way and not allow parents to raise their children at all? As soon as their born take them and put them into government care facilities or place them in the care of a government approved caregiver. Anyone ever read “The Giver”?
Report Post »gperky
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:52pmJust think, if it wasnt’ for the conservative Christians, you might have been aborted! LMAO
Report Post »PAUL_THE_APOSTLE
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 5:45pmSorry, but the Bible is the Best book to rear a child, as it contains ALL truth we ever need to know, not man’s wisdom which is foolishness to God.
Report Post »1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
ModerationIsBest
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 9:25pmWhat?
You mean religious nutjobs can’t mutilate the genitals of their children?!
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 10:09pm@moderation
Report Post »Secularist nutjobs are more than capable of grinding their unborn children into tiny pieces and you’re concerned about a minor surgical procedure that has no verifiable drawbacks? Removing the foreskin, from an anatomical perspective, isn’t much different from a procedure my mother underwent recently when she had her uvula (which had been particularly long for her entire) shortened. Both procedures take only a short time to perform, have low risks for complication, and don‘t significantly alter the person’s physiology. The fact that people even compare this to FGM is ludicrous. If there was a male equivalent to FGM it would most certainly have to be castration. Your not altering the organ your removing it entirely.
Chuck Stein
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 1:32am@ TZION
Report Post »The male equivalent to FGM is not castration (which would totally prevent a man from siring children). Rather, the equivalent is emasculation.
tzion
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 7:46am@Chuck
Report Post »My mistake. I used the wrong terminology. As you were right to point out, castration is the removal of the testes while I was referring to the partial of complete removal of the penis.
CulperGang
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 9:03pmhe just happens to be right
Report Post »right field
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 1:22pmGood example of why our Constitution trumps everything in European history. America is “exceptional” in every possible way because of the wisdom of our Founding Fathers. We must defeat the Marxist in November and never forget the brilliance found in our Constitution.
Report Post »Amendment I – Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Lloyd Drako
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 1:31pmReally? Ask Mitt Romney’s grandfather.
Report Post »adasigns
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 1:05pmOne of my cousins had to have one…when he was 17! There is a medical reason for it! It has to do with cleansing and disease that is associated when it is not done. When my boy’s were born that is what made my mind up to have them done. Better at birth when they don’t remember, than at 17 or older when it is embarrasing! I bet these same people who are against this are for abortion! What about that? Abortion causes “greivous bodily harm,” doesn’t it.
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:59pmIt’s very rare for there to be complications later in adolescence/adulthood that call for the operation. The cleanliness argument is a complete myth. If you teach your kid proper hygiene then cleanliness is not an issue whatsoever.
By your flawless logic, why don’t we just take out all appendices and tonsils at birth as well, despite the fact that most people will never have complications with either organ?
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:09pmAnd I, for one, am completely against abortion, and for a very similar reason that I’m against infant circ…cision. That being, in both cases the child has no say in the fate of its own body. Yes, abortion is quite a bit more serious, but genital mutilation is also serious in its own way.
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 8:31pm@Kupo – The cleanliness issue is a complete myth?! The World Health Organization has release multiple studies done on this and they PROVE that cases of AIDS are reduced significantly. To say that it’s a myth suggests you know better the the WHO. Wow.
By your flawless logic – if you teach your kid to do something he’s going to do it.
Report Post »Alduin
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 12:27pm@ Calm Voice of Reason it is most definatly a religious freedom issue, have you read the old testament or Talmud? It’s part of their covenant with God in their view
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 9:29pmYou also have freedom from religion.
The child has no consent on whether or not they want to get that religious ceremony done to them.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 9:00pm@moderation
Report Post »Last I checked, parental consent is all that is needed. The child is a minor and therefore it would take a court order to take away the power of the parents to consent to the procedure
Aijahlon
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 12:23pmThe_Jerk is the only one with any common sense on here. The rest of you are blinded by emotion through religious devotion, or just plain ignorance when it comes to the Jews. Of the eleven(11) current and former senior advisors of President Barack Obama, nine(9) are Jews, partial Jews, or have Jewish spouses. This is a numerical representation of 82%. Jews are approximately 2% of the U.S. population.* Therefore Jews are over-represented among the current and former senior advisors of President Barack Obama by a factor of 41 times(4,100 percent). The Jews control Obama, not the other way around. There’s an easy way of finding out who has the real power over your lives, just look for the ones that you’re not ever allowed to criticize publicly without losing your job or worse. I’ll give you a hint: J_ws and Is_ael.
Report Post »JustinTexas
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 1:56pmWell if the Jews are so powerful and the Arabs so weak then you should be ashamed of yourselves because there are so many more of you. I personally believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is infinitely more powerful than the god of islam.
Report Post »Aijahlon
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:21pm(1) I’m not an Arab, I’m a white, conservative American. (2) I never said anything about Arabs in my comment. (3) The reason you gave a anti-Arab reply to a non-Arab comment is because you’ve been conditioned to think that way by the Jewish controlled media.
Of the twelve(12) senior executives of the “Big Six” media corporations, nine(9) are Jews or have Jewish spouses. This is a numerical representation of 75%. Jews are approximately 2% of the U.S. population.* Therefore Jews are over-represented among the senior executives of the “Big Six” media corporations by a factor of 37.5 times(3,750 percent).
Report Post »cause_glen_said_so
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:34pmJustin, do some research. Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all Abrahamic religions. Mohammed is a descendant of Abraham.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:49pm@Aijahlon
Report Post »Rule #1 in any statical analysis: corelation does not equal causation. On top of that your pool is far too small to be of any statical significance. You really think 9 Jews in such a small group proves anything. Unless you can prove conclussively that their Jewish connections directly caused them to be placed in those positions your entire theory is nothing more than conjecture. How’s this for overepresentation? Nearly 100% of the people Obama works with or has ties to are socialists or communists. Ever think of that? Or maybe how blacks are overrepresented in basketball? Is the NBA racist?
Aijahlon
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:32pmTZION, I‘m assuming by your username that you’re a Zionist, so I’ll make it simple for you. It is not a small pool, because the “Big Six” control several hundred more media organizations from Hollywood to your local newspaper.
I don‘t care if Americans think we’re running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them. – Joel Stein
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-stein19-2008dec19,0,4676183.column
Here are some more media statistics.
Of the sixty-seven(67) senior executives of the major television and radio news networks, forty-seven(47) are Jews or have Jewish spouses. This is a numerical representation of 70%. Jews are approximately 2% of the U.S. population.* Therefore Jews are over-represented among the senior executives of the major television and radio news networks by a factor of 35 times(3,500 percent).
Of the sixty-four(64) senior executives of the major newspapers and news magazines, forty-two(42) are Jews or have Jewish spouses. This is a numerical representation of 66%. Jews are approximately 2% of the U.S. population.* Therefore Jews are over-represented among the senior executives of the major newspapers and news magazines by a factor of 33 times(3,300 percent).
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 7:05pm@ Aijahlon “Therefore Jews are over-represented among the current and former senior advisors of President Barack Obama by a factor of 41 times(4,100 percent).”
I‘m pretty sure we don’t vote for or appoint people based on their race (except in Obama’s case). Our political parties are not based on race so how can you say there’s over representation of “Jews”? We could just as easily say “there’s an over representation of whites“ and that ”whites” control the president.
If a certain group of people are exceptional based on the way they’re raised (or by perhaps by a blessing God has given them) should we punish them for it? Let’s replace them with less qualified people simply based on race? Sounds like a lose-lose idea. The things you’re saying are like a disease. I’ve heard it from Blacks/African Americans – “that guy‘s going to charge me more because I’m black“ or ”that cop pulled me over because I’m black“ or ”they hired the other guy instead of me because I’m black”. We live in a freemarket society. The only thing that’s wrong is when we hire someone less qualified based on RACE. I want the best man for the job regardless of his age, sex, or race be it white, black, arab, asian, female, etc. I don‘t care if he’s Irish, Jewish, Italian, Russian, or a freaking alien from Star Wars – I’ll vote for a person who fears God and has strong moral convictions every time.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 9:53pm@Aijahlon
You still haven’t proven anything. If we were talking about Jews being overrepresented among lottery winners that might be something to look into. You’re talking as though business executives are chosen at random from a pool of the entire US population. Clearly you have a lot of time on your hands so why don’t you find me someone who explicitly said that a Jew was given a job SOLELY because they were Jewish.
The real truth is that Jews are a generally very successful group. Look at Nobel prize winners. Look at how many are doctors. Lawyers. Engineers. Bankers. For whatever reason many Jews outperform a number of other groups. So do many Asians for that matter yet I don’t see any conspiracy theories there. In that case it’s attributed to a strong work ethic or a rigorous emphasis on education.
But the Jews are special. “There’s no way they could have done so well based solely on their own merit. Someone must have helped them. Someone must be showing them favoritism. I can’t be blamed for not doing as well. I would be doing that job if things were actually fair.” You are such a crybaby getting all upset because you’re not #1. You lefties and your class warfare can go somewhere else. And don’t claim to be a conservative because true conservatives judge people as individuals not as collectives.
Report Post »deeberj
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 3:53pmHey, Aijahlon. Tell me about your name.
Report Post »tothepoint
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 12:18pmJust wondering if the Germans have permitted Muslims to do their radical genital mutilation on their little female babies, little girls and women.
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 1:45pmI hate to burst your little bubble of illusions about Islam, but female genital mutilation is not a requirement of Islamic law. Most Muslim clerics denounce it. It is practiced in some Muslim countries, notably Egypt, but in most of them it is technically illegal. It is far more prevalent in animistic African cultures.
Report Post »cause_glen_said_so
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:59amIf a man was created in the image of “GOD” why do men feel the need to alter what “HE” made in a so-called religious ceremony?
watersRpeople
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 12:16pmMoses gave them circ-umcision, and yet Moses didn’t conquer, and Moses even said of himself that he had “Uncirc-umcised lips” meaning of which to speak with through the Prophet Aaron. People are supposed to be circ-umcising their spirit, because [Man is created "In" God's image].
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 12:22pmMoses also gave them unleavened bread, of course which is bread that hasn’t risen, or maybe a [rib] that hasn’t risen. People keep eating unleavened bread, and they don’t even know what they are doing. Just some [routine] tradition.
Report Post »WHISKY13
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:27pmfrom Abraham on, Jews are circucized.
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:57amInteresting that “circ…cision” is filtered by TheBlaze language moderator but it’s perfectly okay for the word to be used in the headline. Anyway…
Circ…cision SHOULD be ILLEGAL! It’s a horrible, permanent disfigurement that the child has absolutely no say in, and which serves no legitimate medical purpose. Since FGM is illegal (as it should be), why is there a double standard with MGM? People may say that this should be protected by religious freedom, but I would argue that the baby’s religious freedom is being attacked in the most egregious of ways. He is receiving a permanent scar and the loss of an important functional piece of the male reproductive system all in the name of religion without even having a say in whether or not he wants to belong to that religion.
Report Post »Elena2010
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:14pmKupo — there are studies that indicate that removal of the f-skin inhibits the transmission of some diseases like HPV and HIV. A man does not need the f-skin to have a full and healthy sex life. This is why until very recently, most American men were “done” as babies.
In the case of the Jews, it was a sign fm Abraham back to God that he, Abraham, trusted and believed what God had told and forth-told. In Christianity, we would call it a sacrament – an OUTWARD sign of an INWARD grace.
Nowhere have the Jews mandated the practice for non-Jews. It is a matter of religious freedom and the rights of parents to teach religious expression to their children.
Under your “system of ideas” only the state can parent the children. This is wrong thinking and has been disproved by Marxist and fascist countries where group think is all that is allowed.
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:54pmThose studies are controversial at best. Regardless, even if removal of the foreskin prevented STD transmission in 100% of cases and increased sexual satisfaction a hundredfold, it should be a conscious decision on the part of the person being “altered” whether or not it is to take place. A baby cannot give consent, and should therefore not have circ…cisions forced on them by their parents.
Just because someone is the parent of a child doesn’t give that parent free reign to do anything they want to the kid, especially when it’s a permanent surgical alteration which, according to some other studies and loads of anecdotal accounts, does have the potential to lower sexual satisfaction for both partners, as well as has the potential for causing severe infection and hemorrhage which can result in death or complete loss of the organ.
Baby dies due to herpes transmission during circ…cision:
http://tinyurl.com/6rpkfrq
Man goes in for circ…cision, walks out minus his wang:
http://tinyurl.com/3w76l2m
Why risk crap like this for something that is barely more than culturally accepted infant cosmetic surgery? And why should non-therapeutic cosmetic surgery be allowed on children who lack the ability to give consent?
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:56pm“Nowhere have the Jews mandated the practice for non-Jews. It is a matter of religious freedom and the rights of parents to teach religious expression to their children.”
And this is B.S. Snipping a child is NOT teaching them to religiously express themselves. It IS the parent forcibly projecting religious expression onto them against their will. There is a huge difference and the fact that people such as yourself are blind to it is stupefying.
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:17pmAnd just in case you start scoffing at the amputation due it being deemed “necessary” due to the presence of cancerous tissue, regardless of the fact that the surgeon should have awoken him to ask permission or to allow him to get a second opinion, here is another link for you from the Korean Journal of Urology:
(Warning: graphic images)
Report Post »http://tinyurl.com/74oegsl
tzion
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:34pm@Kupo
Report Post »So if a child is born with a cleft palette the parents don’t have the right to surgically correct the defect? I’ve seen 3-year-olds with pierced ears; should that be illegal as well? In all cases involving children under 18, unless a court has ruled otherwise, parents have complete power of attorney. By your reasoning infant immunizations would be illegal because the child didn’t consent.
Kupo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:58pmCleft palate isn’t quite the same thing. That‘s an actual defect that has obvious tangible impacts on a child’s quality of life that can make it hard to breath, eat, and speak. A foreskin is not a birth defect so it’s not really fair to compare the two. And no, I don’t think that piercings should be allowed on small children. If you had actually read my posts you would have seen the following:
“And why should non-therapeutic cosmetic surgery be allowed on children who lack the ability to give consent?”
Notice the key word “non-therapeutic”. Fixing a cleft palate is a therapeutic cosmetic surgery. Snipping foreskins and piercing ears is not – they are non-therapeutic (i.e. cosmetic).
Ear piercings are also prone to complications, although admittedly not serious ones. I had my ears pierced during a phase in college and I have been plagued with periodic infections in my right earlobe ever since, despite the fact that I let the holes grow in years ago.
I am typically as anti-statist as possible, but I do believe that there need to be laws in effect to protect children from barbaric and incompetent parents. Foreskin removal certainly qualifies as barbaric, antiquated, and unnecessary in my book. Why not let children decide for themselves? Are you so cowardly to face the probability that no cognizant person would ever want to go through with having a part of their member sliced off?
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 4:12pmHere’s a question for you, Tzion.
Since you are apparently okay with parents piercing their small child’s ears, then are you also okay with them piercing their eyebrows? How about their labrets, lips, or nipples? Is it okay to give them large guage piercings or to stretch piercings to allow for disc earrings? Is it okay to give a baby boy a Prince Albert or a baby girl a labia piercing? How about sub-dermal implants? Is it okay to tattoo a baby? Maybe give him a full sleeve or maybe a full back Yakuza style tattoo? Maybe a bunch of gang tats or hate group tats? Maybe tattoos on the eyeball? How about giving them tongue splitting surgery? Where does it end?
Report Post »qpwo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 10:42pmTotally agree TUPO. I appreciate your level-headed manner of argument, such as I’ve read. I cannot understand the majority of people, left and right, who are perfectly fine with cutting an infant for no medical reason. That body that they’re cutting into, does not belong to them. Whatever the child feels will be an appropriate offering as his or her commitment to God can wait until the child is of legal age. We should respect that individual relationship and decision enough not to interfere.
Report Post »Kupo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:23pmThanks QPWO
I myself was snipped as a child and, despite my belief that I have good parents, it’s something that I resent my parents for. I don’t think that they had any right to do what they did and I will never be whole because of it.
Report Post »deeberj
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 3:44pmIt really doesn‘t matter if it’s better for you to be snipped or not. It matters that this is a religious ceremony practiced for thousands of years (and does not cause long term harm or pain to the person being snipped) and a gov’t is banning it. That should cause some concern.
Report Post »deeberj
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 3:50pmkupo – and my son is not happy that I did not have him snipped. As soon as he gets a job (he is just starting college) and gets extra money he’s going to be snipped. It’s an elective surgery. He wants to do it as a nod to Hebrews being God’s people from whom Jesus was born. Jesus was snipped and my son wants to be also.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:53amGermans persecuting Jews….. Seems like I’ve seen this movie before.
If I were a Jew in Europe, I would consider splitting that scene like a fore ski…… Aw, nevermind. It’s too easy.
Report Post »jackact
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:28amAnti-semitism is thriving well in ‘old europe’ and communism is thriving in Russia.
Report Post »Good job Obama!
Your ‘level playground’ is accomplished.
….and the Muslims are safe.
:(
tothepoint
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 12:20pmYou got that right.
Report Post »When you read the anti-Jew, anti-Christian comments here from the supporters of the misogynist Muslims who murder homosexuals, you begin to understand the meaning behind their posts.
Aijahlon
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:03pmTOTHEPOINT, let me get to the point of why you’re wrong. I am anti-Jew and I’m a conservative, not a Muslim. As for the killing of homosexuals:
Leviticus 18:22 – Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 – If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 – (26) That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; (27) and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.
Romans 1:32 – Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 5:37pmAijahlon – How can you be anti-Jew and quote from a Jewish book? You ignoramus! Guess what?!?! Jesus was Jewish! Guess what again – Jesus practiced Judaism!!!!
You sound like you might be ok with killing a gay person – I‘m not disagreeing with what’s written in in Torah, but when the book says “must be put to death” it ALWAYS means through some judicial system. It’s never ok for a person (vigilante executioner) to kill another man (except in war and the defense of life).
Are you pro-Muslim?
Aijahlon
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 6:15pmJASON342, I’m well aware that Yeshua (Jesus) was a Jew, and I also knew that Yeshua (Jesus) was a Torah observant, tallit wearing, synagogue attending, Sabbath and feast-keeping, kosher Jew who observed the seven commanded holy days and practiced Judaism. Now, about the killing of homosexuals, I just quoted some verses from the Bible, no more, and no less.
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 6:51pm@ Aijahlon – Ok gotcha. You’re not a God-fearer.
Report Post »Aijahlon
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 7:33pmJASON342, You’re just not gonna be happy until you come up with a label for me are you? Pro-Muslim, anti-Muslim, anti-Semite, anti God-fearing, Nazi, etc…, take your pick if it will make you happy.
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 8:14pmAijahlon – Not trying to put a label on you, just trying to figure out why you seem to be so angry and have such an intense hate for Jews. That’s all. You said you were anti-Jew. What have they ever done to you?
Report Post »deeberj
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 3:47pmAijahlon – this is a name in Hebrew for a location in ancient Israel, and means “place of gazelles”. I find it very odd that you use this name and you hate Jews.
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 7:36pmInteresting. Modern-day Aijahlon is in the West Bank.
Report Post »denkat56
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:27amkind of reminds you of hitler. heres a tip read your history books, its all about to repeat itself.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:25amSo let me see if I understand this thinking of the anti-theists…killing baby in womb good – following the Covenant of God bad?
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:21amLike I said I can always count on an Atheist to move the box [all the way] across the room if but for the only reason to push the buttons of the religious. You’re supposed to be circ-umcising your spirit.
Report Post »Gladius_Doctorae
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:20amWow! Getting arrested for leaving a “tip”.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:07amMore daily Jewish propaganda. Ask yourself why such a small group commands such a large part of the media.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:14amDeutschland Erwacht ?
Report Post »SREGN
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:16amI’m sure Louis Farrakhan, Van Jones, Cynthia McKinney, Reverend Wright, and the Obamas heartily agree with you.
Report Post »Balrog28
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:16amTrue to your name I see.
Report Post »Obviously this is more than just a Jewish story – these issues of religious freedom are popping up more and more – sadly due to this one world order/UN/PC/IMF garbage.
Calm Voice of Reason
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:22am@Balrog: In what way is this a religious freedom issue?
Report Post »Locked
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:40am“Ask yourself why such a small group commands such a large part of the media.”
Right place, right time, and a culture that encourages education and succeeding in society?
Oh, wait, no… it must be a global Jewish conspiracy, right @The_Jerk?
Report Post »termyt
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:42amKind of like homosexuals?
Now if the Jews could just switch it to 7 days before birth instead of 7 days after.
Report Post »tothepoint
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 12:19pmAhhh…the anti-Jewish contingent has landed.
Report Post »We pray that God will fill your heart with love.
tzion
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 2:27pm@Jerk
Report Post »“Daily Jewish propoganda”. Okay then, where is yesterday’s? Last time I saw a story featuring the Jewish religion in any way was way back when the Orthodox Jews got together to celebrate the completion of the Daf Yomi cycle. Is one story in maybe 150 too many for your Jew-a-phobic brain to handle?
Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:27pm…because lots of Americans Jews are liberals… and possibly because the last time legislation was passed that banned Jews from practicing their religion 6 MILLION JEWS WERE MURDERED!?!?
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 8:59pmPropaganda – a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position.
What are we being influenced to do?
Report Post »mike551
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:06amAnd you thought they were all dead?
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:04amThe German press is probably running stories about how the American President is forcing Catholic institutions to buy birth control for their employees.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:10amYou’ve just said far more than most will comprehend.
Report Post »Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 3:32pmSame argument… only Americans didn’t murder 6 million Catholics after making Catholicism illegal.
The government has overstepped it’s bounds (immensely) on this issue. I’m still wondering how this even became a serious issue… Are they (Catholic institutions) going to have to distribute sex toys next?
Report Post »Aijahlon
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 6:40pmJASON342, the Germans didn’t murder 6 million Jews, but the Communist Bolshevik Jews did murder over 60 million Christians, and also starved to death over 10 million Ukrainians in the Holodomor. What about the over 58,000 Germans being raped, tortured, and brutally murdered in Poland by the Communist Jews? This is the real reason Hitler invaded Poland, to save his fellow Germans. Learn some history man!
Report Post »psychokittis
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 7:56pmAIJAHLON- yes, the commies murdered at least that many people in Europe. You are , however, wrong about the Germans. Under Nazi rule, they murdered not onbloy 6 milliuon Jews, but another 12 million various other peoples, including Russians, Gypsies, etc. Read a little more history your self.
Report Post »Incidentally, I have been studying that period of history since 1975. Of course, back then there were far more ww2 survivors around, including death camp survivors.
Enough so that it was almost impossible for lies like yours to gain ground.
Jason342
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 8:36pmGermans didn’t murder 6 million Jews? I suppose the numeric tattoos I see on people was just a trend back in the 40s? How would you explain the video footage from death camp liberations in the 40s? Were those all actors? Were those REALLY skinny people pretending to be dead in piles as bulldozers pushed them into mass graves? Was Dreamworks animating back then?
Funny you would mention Bolshevik Jews since they comprised only about 5% of the entire Bolshevik party. Learn some History? PLEASE TEACH ME.
Your way of thinking is a disease. Somehow you manage to judge a man by his race instead of his actions. Why are you looking to blame Jews and what are you trying to blame them for?
Report Post »Aijahlon
Posted on August 22, 2012 at 11:07pmJASON342, Out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . . there were in 1918-1919, 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim, and 457 Jews.
Out of 556, 457 were Jews. Your 5% is completely wrong.
As for the 6 million number, it started being used as propaganda by the Jews in 1919. What about the population of Jews? Per World Almanac figures, it INCREASED by 584,549 between 1941 and 1948. So, this being the case, where did the 6,000,000 dead go?
Europe 1938 – 8,939,608 Jews
Europe 1948 – 9,372,666 Jews
Difference – +433,058
Check out Churchill’s Second World War, not a single mention of Nazi ‘gas chambers,‘ a ’genocide’ of the Jews, or of ‘six million’ Jewish victims of the war. This is astonishing. How can it be explained? Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill’s Second World War total 4,448 pages; and de Gaulle’s three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi ‘gas chambers,‘ a ’genocide’ of the Jews, or of ‘six million’ Jewish victims of the war.”
Holohoax Survivors Who Tell The Truth
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ux4n8E-PUIU
Jason342
Posted on August 23, 2012 at 4:09pmAijahlon – Who was taking the census? Did it have anything to do with an anti-Semitic government? I’m sure we can trust those numbers. You’re describing the “Stab-in-the-back myth”. There‘s a reason it’s called a myth. Churchill was an antisemite himself – of COURSE he’s not going to mention inhumane acts that were done to Jews. All of the info you’re touting are myths and lies. If I look at any REAL data I CLEARLY see that what you‘re telling me just isn’t true. You‘re seriously telling my that people I’ve know tattooed a number on their forearms as a hoax and that 6 million Jews were not murdered in Europe? HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE VIDEO?!? When 98% of data tells me one thing (and has proof) and 2% says something else (without proof) I tend to believe the 98%. If Jews have some global plan for domination please fill me in and perhaps I’ll stop going to synagogue – BTW I’m not a Jew.
“In October 1916, when almost three thousand Jews had already died on the battlefield and more than seven thousand had been decorated, War Minister Wild von Hohenborn saw fit to sanction the growing prejudices. He ordered a “Jew census” in the army to determine the actual number of Jews on the front lines as opposed to those serving in the rear. Ignoring protests in the Reichstag and the press, he proceeded with his head count. The results were not made public, ostensibly to “spare Jewish feelings.” The truth was that the census disproved the accusations: 80 percent served on
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 24, 2012 at 1:00am@Aijahlon
Report Post »Actually Jason’s 5% is accurate because he was counting the entire party, which included as its primary constituency the poor working class citizens who weren’t landowners. Yes secular Jews were prevalent in leadership positions due primarily to the fact they were typically well educated. But there were more than 500 Jews in Russia. How many Jews were Bolsheviks? You won‘t find those numbers on your typical conspiracy website because they don’t want you to know that those 500 Jews were not part of the Jewish mainstream. Mainstream Russian Jews were religious and were more concerned with remaining unnoticed than with bringing about political change. Russia has historically been among the most antisemitic places on Earth so can you blame them for not wanting to provoke the tiger. Only secular Jews, who were frustrated that they were still marginalized despite separating from Judaism, had any reason to try to bring about change.
Aijahlon
Posted on August 24, 2012 at 1:18amTZION, 100,000,000 Christian were exterminated by the Anti-Christian Jewish Red Commissars in Russia under the orders of Trotsky, the Jewish Commissar of Commissars, and they were murdered in the USSR under Jewish Marxism between 1917-1945, and many of the Marxists came to Russia from New York to do this to Christians in 1917 after Jacob Schiff, the Jewish anti-Christian maniac banker who owned The Guaranty National Trust, the largest bank in the United States, financed Lenin and Trotsky $35 million for the Red Revolution and the mass killing of these Christian souls.
Report Post »Aijahlon
Posted on August 24, 2012 at 12:27pmJASON342 – the numbers come from the American Jewish Committee Bureau of the Synagogue Council, and published in the World Almanac & Book of Facts. It didn’t come from some anti-Semitic government. Your claim of Churchill being an anti-Semite, so of COURSE he’s not going to mention inhumane acts that were done to Jews, is totally speculative on your part and completely unfounded. Even if your theory about Churchill were true, it still wouldn’t explain why Eisenhower’s “Crusade in Europe” and de Gaulle’s three-volume “Mémoires de guerre” has no mention either of Nazi ‘gas chambers,‘ a ’genocide’ of the Jews, or of ‘six million’ Jewish victims of the war.” These were the three biggest players in the war against Hitler, and they wrote a combined total of 7,061 (not including the introductory parts) between themselves, and not even one of them could devote at least one sentence to something as important as the Holocaust. I guess they were all just anti-Semites. Where the Jews being tattooed for identification purposes? Yes they were. Did the Germans make the Jews wear a yellow star of David on their clothing to identify them as Jews? Yes they did? Do either one of these facts mean that 6,000,000 Jews were murdered in Europe? No, it means they were tattooed, and wore a yellow star of David on their clothing for identification purposes. Now, as for the thing you wrote about October 1916, I‘ve read it a few times and I just don’t understand where you
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 24, 2012 at 3:12pm@aijahlon
Do you also deny that 3 million Poles were murdered by the Nazis? Or that nearly 5 million non-Jews, most of them Eastern Europeans perished in the Holocaust? The Nazis themselves kept records of their plans to exterminate the Jews. Have you ever been to Poland? I have and I have not only seen the death camps, the gas chambers, and the crematoriums, I have seen the piles of human hair, the mountains of children’s shoes, I have walked through soil that has been turned black from ash. I have seen the trenches that served as mass graves; I saw a mound of human ash the size of a large house. I have seen the pictures taken by those who liberated the camps of people so thin they were practically skeletons.
Not even the Nazis who were tried for war crimes denied what happened. Their primary defense was “I was following orders” or “this was entirely legal and sanctioned by the government so I have broken no law”.
Report Post »