Do You Know the Real Story Behind the ‘Jefferson Bible’? David Barton Shared it With Beck
- Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:17pm by
Tiffany Gabbay
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During his Thursday evening broadcast, Glenn Beck interviewed WallBuilders founder and “The Jefferson Lies” author, David Barton. The two discussed what drove Thomas Jefferson and dispelled some long-held myths about the Founding Father.
For Jefferson, “it all goes back to God,” Barton said. This statement prompted the story of the “Jefferson Bible” and rumors that Jefferson was, in some way, anti-religious. Barton brushed off this idea as nonsense and went on to explain how history has been twisted.
The legend had it that Jefferson cut the Bible into pieces, sewing together the portions with which he agreed and discarding the rest. As it turns out, Jefferson had a long history working with missionaries and, in particular, bringing Christianity to the Native Americans. At one point Jefferson gleaned an idea to produce an abbreviated version of the Bible that only focused on the moral teachings of Jesus Christ with a view toward creating a more digestible, comprehensive volume for the Native Americans he and other missionaries were teaching. Jefferson did so and, at the beginning of the 20th century, his abridged bible was Congressionally re-printed and given to members of Congress upon taking office. The tradition lasted some some 50 years.
The fascinating lesson in history continues below. Watch and learn more about one of the most complex figures in U.S. history.
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Comments (323)
luvmykids
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:23pmI wonder if all these conflicting views of history are a result of distorted history being taught in our schools. I urge everyone to read a book called FED ED: The New Federal Curriculum and How It’s Enforced by Allen Quist. My son’s history teacher told him our Founding Fathers were terrorists, not patriots. I’m not joking. He came home quite upset about it, as he knows the truth. (I homeschooled him for several years). But what about the rest of the kids in the class/school? Their first taste of US History starts with that. We really should end the US Department of Education.
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:30pmState and Local governments dictate curriculum so please blame them.
Report Post »luvmykids
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:52pmDear Science Is Not Evil,
Regarding your comment, “State and Local governments dictate curriculum so please blame them.”
I’m afraid you are mistaken. Please read: http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/curriculum/2012/02/a_new_white_paper_raises.html
Report Post »The Federal Government does so much in such a way we aren’t even aware unless we do our homework.
ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:05pmFunny the school boards that I do consulting work don’t report any interference from the feds. However to do get interference from some on the state level who want them to teach the Earth is six thousand years old.
Report Post »luvmykids
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:15pmI urge you to read FED ED: The Federal Curriculum and How It’s Enforced by Allen Quist.
Report Post »luvmykids
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:18pmIt’s not interference if you are on the same indoctrinated page. That would simply be collaboration, unless one’s eyes are wide open.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:18pm@ScienceIsNotEvil
Clinton signed the bill into law that first integrated the FEDERAL Department of Education‘s computer systems with the States’. By the by, the DOE doesn’t educate anyone.
Oh yeah, and in case you actually wanted to think logically – just because you don’t have first-hand knowledge of something doesn‘t mean it doesn’t exist.
Report Post »texasbeta
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:21pmTrue, but you tend to trust the person who actually has firsthand knowledge as opposed to the conspiracy theorist who thinks it is all connected and we should end public education in this country because their kid has a smartass teacher one day at school.
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:25pm“just because you don’t have first-hand knowledge of something doesn‘t mean it doesn’t exist”
You don’t get it do you. I have directly asked them about such things they say it isn’t happening. Are all the various schools lying to me?
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:43am@SCIENCEISNOTEVIL
I say you are full of BS
Report Post »supermansdad
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:45amFunny, because science has proven that under the perfect conditions it oil can be produced in only a couple thousand not millions of years. Amazingly enough, those “scientists” found that those conditions included the events described in Genisis. Might be 6,000 years but the old-earthers with P.H.D. after their name seem to be being proven wrong more and more here lately.
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:30amsupermansdad
Report Post »I’m glad you at least had the intellectual integrity to put quote marks around the word “scientists” when trying to explain how the existence of oil can be reconciled with a literal reading of the Book of Genesis. Unfortunately, all real scientists know that the total mass of every living thing on the surface of the planet at any given time is insufficient to account for even a small fraction the amount of oil on Earth, so you will have to count me among the unconvinced old-Earthers.
Nick84
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:43amhttp://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:10am@NICK
Here’s the link to the homepage of the link you posted.
Be sure to click on the “Happy 420” near the top of the page, then skip the ad when the vid starts.
This is the website you choose to link to further your point of view?
What a joke.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:10amSorry, here is the link.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/index.htm
Report Post »RebelPatriot
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:19amThe answer is simple, Christians need to take their children out of public education and place them in schools that teach them about religion, civics and how moral values define the laws which we should live under.
To those of you who wish to use miss qoutes and quotes taken out of context to disclaim the founding fathers belief in Christian values. Why are you and the progressives trying so hard to change them? You attempt to take all the freedoms and liberties given to citizens by God and have a group that governs us to determine what our liberties should be.
Who died and left the intellectuals in charge? You can’t even balance a budget, but yet you know what is best for the citizens of a nation.
You assumptions that only those who are highly educated should make the rules of life are ridiculous.
You are a man or woman, you are no better, no worse. You don‘t have the right to tell someone they can’t or can. You don‘t have the right to choose who does and who doesn’t.
They aren’t your rights to give or take away, they belong to the individual.
The founding father’s made it very clear our rights are God given and should be exercised by every man and woman alike.
Report Post »AnAppealToGod
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:37amIf you’re a true bible believing Christian, will you please read this carefully.
(from the article)
“The legend had it that Jefferson cut the Bible into pieces, sewing together the portions with which he agreed and discarding the rest. As it turns out, Jefferson had a long history working with missionaries and, in particular, bringing Christianity to the Native Americans. At one point Jefferson gleaned an idea to produce an abbreviated version of the Bible that only focused on the moral teachings of Jesus Christ with a view toward creating a more digestible, comprehensive volume for the Native Americans he and other missionaries were teaching. Jefferson did so and, at the beginning of the 20th century, his abridged bible was Congressionally re-printed and given to members of Congress upon taking office. The tradition lasted some some 50 years.”
Joseph Smith did the same thing but only from a different perspective and on a much grander scale.
Our schools are doing to history what Thomas Jefferson did to the bible. Pick and choose.
Report Post »Nick84
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 3:30amTherightsofbilly-
I don’t really understand why it matters where the information comes from, as long as it is accurate. Would you like me to locate the same quotes on a different site?
Report Post »TomSawyer
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 4:23amScienceIsNotEvil, I doubt anyone is requesting to teach that the earth is 6,000 years old. I speculate that is your interpretation of what they said. IF you ever do hear someone request that, make sure you tell them that the Bible does not say that the earth is 6,000 years old.
Report Post »PapaPatriarch
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 4:47amreply to “Chet Hempstead”
Report Post »Look up Poly-strait fossils. They are tree fossils that run through multiple layers of coal. Some coal beds are full of them, proving they were not formed over millions of years, but all the coal had to form around the trees before they decayed. As for the oil, there was plant life that was HUGE all over the earth, things like 50 foot tall broccoli have been found in the fossil, record, not to mention even today, dryed up oil beds can refill in a matter of years, we just don’t know everything about this proccess yet.
The whole universe is young, or we would not still have molten cores on some planets, all planetary spinning would have stopped by now, the whole universe would have suffered a slow cold death. (see second law of thermo-dynamics= all things are breaking down, decaying.) Magnetic fields would be gone, stars would be consumed, the whole universe would have stopped, much like a top that is done spinning. Also, there is no experiment anywhere that can accurately measure anything in the millions of years. Variables can affect carbon measurements, by events like the global flood.
Reliable historians have written, (read Genesis), that our whole universe was actually created rather recently.
There is no repeatable scientific method anywhere to prove the earth is millions of years old, or that that any evolution between kinds has ever been found in the vast fossil record, it must take alot of faith to still believe this old pagan myth.
Itsjusttim
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 7:13amTongues: it isn’t blabbing in some hideous lingo that sounds like a chicken pen; Tongues is reaching for a cup the same time another reaches for a cup; Tongues is thinking of your best friend as they call you on the phone; Tongues is getting ready to make a comment to someone at the same time they get ready to speak.
Report Post »Shrugged
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 7:28am@scienceisnotevil – Think beyond the end of your nose Mr scientist. Much of the state funding comes from the Feds. I guess your arguement may be one of the best one for not needing a Federal Dept of Education? Great – I’ll support that.
Report Post »hidden_lion
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 8:09amScienceisnotevil-
Every major problem facing modern man is caused by Science. Science, in the end, will b the cause of our destruction. My wife is a teacher, the curriculum is pushed by the state under pressure from the FEDs. No child left behind is one example, Dept of education makes the rules.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 8:41am@TOMSAWYER
If you chronologically map out the lineages in Genesis and Numbers and the Matthew, you get an Earth of around 6,000 years old which scientifically stands. I know it‘s shocking when you have been taught your whole life it’s much longer. From the time I was in middle school, (in the 80′s) until now, that age has gone for 400 million years to whatever we’re at now 6 billion I think. That’s a pretty big margin of error. Also, they use circular reasoning to get here. They age fossils by the rock layer. And then they age the rock layer by the “index fossils”. Carbon dating and the other types are provably inacurrate and geologists will admint they can not be used in dating rock layer. Mt. St. Helens is a perfect study in how a cataclismic event can cause earth formations that appear old but are not.
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 9:55amOn topic shameless plug:
Please follow me at http://www.twitter.com/founderstweets
I post all about the Founding years, about the Founding Fathers, daily quotes from Poor Richard, an a whole mess load more. It’s apolitical, so even you Leftist loosers… I promise you won’t be disapointed. Well, unless you hate America.
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 9:57amAlthough I realize that this country has been under the spell of wicked ______ Apartheid for some time and I know that they have been about subverting and perverting our History for a long time, I must confess that I too had bought into this Jefferson deist caricature a bit.
Thak you Mr. Barton and even you too Glenn Beck for getting the truth out. I realize that you two are not willing and capable of calling these conspirators out except in the most vauge general terms of Progressives or Atheists which I feel is a travesty but regardless I do appreciate the effort both of you bring to the table in educating the American conservatives of the facts. Yes I say conservatives for a reason because most liberals simply don’t give a damn about our history or about our Constitution whatsoever!
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:03am@TheRightsofbilly
I am not a supporter of SciencenotEvil because I haven’t done any research. I do know that when a person writes: it is all BS. The writer has reached the end of their rational thought process and can’t continue to present an intellectual thought. My mom used to call it poverty of thinking and poverty of vocabulary.
Report Post »TheePolitinator
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:03amThis is what they teach our law enforcement as well and I’m not kidding see it here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSGshyGjfNg
and btw If I were you I would go to the school and that moron teacher would wish he wasn’t born.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:24amluvmykids
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:52pm
Dear Science Is Not Evil,
Regarding your comment, “State and Local governments dictate curriculum so please blame them.”
I’m afraid you are mistaken. Please read: http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/curriculum/2012/02/a_new_white_paper_raises.html
Report Post »The Federal Government does so much in such a way we aren’t even aware unless we do our homework.
_________________
Your evidence only proves the method of how Barton creates fables from whole cloth. The letter is not evidence of anything more than a Congressman passing along a concern that a veterans’ group had, it doesn’t speak to the truth of what was alledge or offer anything in the form of proof as to what is alledged. Additionally, if this is what Barton holds up as proof, he has conflated a local is in an attempt to indite the Federal government. There is no evidence offered that there is a National or Federal policy as the Liar Barton implies.
VRW Conspirator
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:38amPlease excuse all the replies..but there are SO MANY inaccuracies from BOTH sides that I am choosing to deal with them one at a time…
First…the age of the Earth according to the Bible account. This was done in response to Pope Gregory, hence the Gregorian Calendar we use today, being upset about having different countries on different calendars due to nobody taking into account the 365.24 day cycle around the Sun. So every 50-100 years or so, it would mysteriously snow in July. The Roman tradition was to just make the first day of snow as January 1, and then start the calendar from there. Pope Gregory was not to keen on this constant resetting and decided there must be a formal world calendar. So he commissioned a formal account based on the Bible of the history of mankind to determine the correct year, month, and date.
the conclusions…the Earth was created on October 28, 4004 BC at 7:42 am …well the time part was kinda silly but it was included…i don’t think that was the actually time told to the Pope..but the date and year are correct. So from that calculation, not saying it was right, remember based on a genealogy analysis of the Bible, would put the Earth at roughly 6016 years of age currently.
Report Post »black9897
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:46amYeah. But Jefferson was not a Christian. He did not believe in the trinity and did not belive Jesus was God’s son. Not hatin’ on him, I like him and think he was a great guy.
Report Post »Unix
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:49amWell they say, time loves a hero, and only time will tell if he’s real…
I thank David and Glenn for giving us the TRUTH, for exposing the lies for what they are!
I think history will prove that Glenn is a true HERO, a man of vision and character and conviction. A brave man, for standing up for what he believes, and in the face of MUCH criticism!
I salute you Glenn Beck, you are a man of HONOR!!!!
To all the trolls, don’t even bother with your lies, I will not read them, or if I do, I will not respond, may you liberal communists twist in the wind with your cloak of deceit!!!!!
Report Post »izukiddin
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:53amIf you luv your kids, why on earth are you sending them to government schooling?
Report Post »VRW Conspirator
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:55am@ the debate over who controls education curriculum.
Speaking as a teacher of 14 years who has gone through a few textbook adoptions and the son of a teacher of 35 years who went through many, under many different governmental “strategies” to benefit children, Luv and Science are both right and wrong.
through the No Child Left Behind, Race to the Top, and other Federal legislation and the POWER of the purse (8.5% of education spending at the State and Local level comes from the Fed) and their army of regulators, inspectors, and “outreach advocates” the Department of Education has a HUGE influences over what States put into their curriculum guidelines.
Report Post »Now, do they DIRECTLY control what is taught? No, not directly, but through that power and regulation and THREAT of withholding finances, the FED can basically make the State do what they want which is why the majority of States have adopted the National Standards in the 4 CORE areas as their State Standards, some States like CA have actually ADDED to the National and created a more intensive curriculum placing teachers under more control and influence and stress to teach everything they are required by law.
Now, since CA, NY, and TX are the three largest influences because they have the largest buying power due to the number of children in schools, textbook publishers cater to these three States and pretty much make separate versions for them which the other 47 States are FORCED to use.
db321
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 11:03amI have been a fan of David Barton for 18 years – if he writes, says or teaches anything – you can take it to the Bank! He is defiantly annotated with a special gift from God and he speaks the TRUTH!
Once Glenn associated himself with David Barton – I knew at that very moment, I was on board with everything Glenn is doing.
David gives everyone a GREAT TEST! Ask your Pastor what he/she thinks of David Barton – if he have anything negative to say – then maybe you need to find another Pastor!
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 11:22amDB321: I too appreciate and follow David Barton but he is not without faults. He too like Glenn is promoting a sort of Universalism. Remember Glenn Beck says that he is the ultimate Rodeo Clown so we must ask and consider seriously what he is distracting us from… So too with Mr. Barton. I love much of his work and agree with most of it but whenever you find someone pushing Universalism just beware that there’s an agenda.
Now in defense of Barton, the Gospels do teach a type of Spiritual Universalism but it is complete and utter insanity to carry that spiritual principle over into the physical realm of a fallen world.
Report Post »VRW Conspirator
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 11:29am@ the actual article content about Jefferson and his abridged Bible.. it is called “the Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth”
First question – have YOU personally read it? You can get a free copy online as an e-book, even on your phone as an e-pub.
Second question – if you haven’t READ it, what makes you think you can COMMENT on it and draw conclusions?
Third question – if you have read it, did you pay attention to the pieces Jefferson included and edited out and think “why would he take that out and leave this in?”
There are places where Jefferson removes aspects of Jesus being the Son of God but pieces that include Jesus speaking directly too God and calling him Father.
The edit stops at the burial of Jesus and does not include the Resurrection but that does not mean Jefferson did not believe in the Resurrection. He includes in the edit the title given to Jesus as King of the Jews and Christ and mentions he is the Messiah.
Fourth question – if Jefferson was using this edited Bible book in his efforts to enlighten Native Americans about Jesus, do you think those peoples would KNOW what a King was, a Christ was, or a Messiah was? Or would Jefferson and the missionaries that used his book have to explain these terms to the Native Americans, thus fostering understanding and conversation about Jesus?
Now I didn’t know Jefferson so we only have his writings, but he clearly believed in God, Jesus, and the Power of God (Holy Spirit), his words say so.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 11:44amNICK84 Says:
“Therightsofbilly-
I don’t really understand why it matters where the information comes from, as long as it is accurate. Would you like me to locate the same quotes on a different site?”
Nick,
It matters because the information is biased.
It was selectively chosen to bolster only that particular viewpoint, while ignoring the volumes of information that tend to prove otherwise.
If you have not already discovered all that other evidence, I suggest you look in to it.
And last, the overall quality and respectability of a source is kind of a “tell” as to the quality of the information will get from it. Sort of like the old saying………“you get what you pay for”
No need for you to provide your other sources for the info……..I would imagine that they would all present pretty much the same bent.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 11:55amDISMAYED VETERAN Wrote:
@TheRightsofbilly
“I am not a supporter of SciencenotEvil because I haven’t done any research. I do know that when a person writes: it is all BS. The writer has reached the end of their rational thought process and can’t continue to present an intellectual thought. My mom used to call it poverty of thinking and poverty of vocabulary.”
@Dismayed Vet
Point taken, but at the same, I did a poor job of conveying my thoughts.
My reply was directed at only his last post which is right above my post in question.
What I was trying to say is that I think he was being……..“disingenuous” in his attempt to prove his point.
You know, second hand references saying that…….“so and so told me this or that”……..don’t go far on internet discussion boards.
I know because someone told me so.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:01pmHe isn’t full of it, he’s just a lying liberal, that is what they do, why would anyone with a brain expect them to do anything else?
Report Post »TomSawyer
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:10pmSquidVetOhio, You do not need to tell me where the 6,000 year old value comes from because I have heard it 100s of times. That is an interpretation over many different chapters of the Bible. When you say that the earth is 6000 years old, you make Christians appear stupid. There is no reason to say it.
Report Post »Centurian
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:14pmSpeaking as an adjunct professor for a local university, who has taught history and political science courses, I can state that the textbooks that I am forced to teach out of is absolute trash!
It is filled with character assassinations of conservatives and of the Founding Fathers. It is filled with the downtrodden plight of the LGBT community, blacks, and the ecology. Rarely will the textbooks give an accurate portrayal of our history’s great past.
Instead, people like Noam Chomsky and others are given free reign to rewrite our country’s history. I usually end up using the textbooks for reference and teaching from PowerPoints that I made, instead of using the PowerPoints sent to me from the publisher. The worst publishing company, so far, has been Cengage.
It gets challenging, having to “wipe away” years and years of ignorance and misinformation. Luckly for me is the fact that the university I work for is a business university, and is more concerned with producing solid graduates, instead of zombies who can only regurgitate what was spoon fed to them.
By the way, if I sound bitter, I am. What has happened, and continues to happen, in our educational system is appalling.
GET RID OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND LIBERAL THEOLOGY IF YOU WANT THIS COUNTRY TO SURVIVE!!!
Report Post »lornaduwn
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:10pmScience:
Report Post »State and Local School Officials still have to answer to the Dept. of Education. They might have a choice of curriculum, but not much. Try finding a text book approved for use in schools that hasn’t been white-washed. Heck! They don’t even use text books now. Kids are taught by handouts and outlines! They have a discussion on a subject, watch a video and then take home questions, some of which are pretty questionable. All without the need to bring a book home for homework. And, when a book comes home, we no longer have parents who are saying, “Hey, this isn’t what I was taught.” Why? Because it’s been going on so long that their parents have already been taught that the truth is something that evolves.
techengineer11
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:53pmCenturian
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:14pm
Speaking as an adjunct professor for a local university, who has taught history and political science courses, I can state that the textbooks that I am forced to teach out of is absolute trash!
It is filled with character assassinations of conservatives and of the Founding Fathers. It is filled with the downtrodden plight of the LGBT community, blacks, and the ecology. Rarely will the textbooks give an accurate portrayal of our history’s great past.
Instead, people like Noam Chomsky and others are given free reign to rewrite our country’s history.
While there‘s no doubt that you are correct who’s behind this rewriting? You mention Chomsky. Is he Jewish?
I’m hated for pointing out the obvious but yes of course there are Jews spearheading the rewriting and distorting of American history.. Of course they hate everything about us. Why are people just so damn dumb about what is occuring in this country? Are you that brainwashed? Do you really think God is going to hate you or punish you for recognizing and pointing out the obvious truth?
Report Post »Clear-eyed
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:57pmWOW! There really are people who think the earth is 6,000 years old! In the depths of my cynicism I never believed people could still believe this. I thought it was a myth made up by the left wing nut jobs to make conservative Christians look ignorant. It’s like listening to someone argue the sun orbits the earth (don’t tell me anyone believes this). The vatican, for what it’s worth, employs scientists, they are scientist priests and ALL are in agreement the earth is roughly 4.5 Billion years old.
Also, freedom of religion means freedom from religion. Our morals do not come from our faith, they come from our biology. Studies of primates prove they feel: loyalty, sympathy towards weaker members, intolerance of cruelty, a sense of shame, even a sense of justice. Religion codifies and cements these traits, it does not create them.
It scares me to think that the only think preventing you Christians from going on a killing spree is the threat of eternal damnation – it’s really all about you… isn’t it?
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 3:09pm@Clear-eyed
Check this out:
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2011/06/going-ape-ultraviolence-and-our-primate-cousins.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news
Without going in to everything else you said………….one question.
Where did our biology come from?
Report Post »poverty.sucks
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 3:12pmWhat is Glenn smoking that makes him so confuse? Jefferson proved to be the master of Cut & Paste, share only what’s important to ones self. Jefferson failed to include the following:
• the prince who is to come Daniel 9:26
Report Post »• the fierce king Daniel 8:23
• a despicable man Daniel 11:21
• a worthless shepherd Zechariah 11:16
• the destroyer II Thessalonians 2:33
• a master of intrigue Daniel 8:23
• the evil man II Thessalonians 2:9
TRUTHSENSE
Posted on April 21, 2012 at 12:59amMy grandson was given an assignment to do a paper on something like who he thought was a great leader. He chose to do his report on Mao tse tung. He certainly never got that from home, he had to have gotten it from school. I printed off some of his history from the internet for my grandson to read before he finished his report. My grandson and daughter lived with my wife and I for most of his childhood and raised with a good christian upbringing. He prayed for salvation on his own initiative when he was five years old. But kids are so impressionable, assuming that what they are taught at school is always absolutely right. No wonder the liberals want our kids in school at an earlier age all the time. I started school in first grade, my daughter started in kindergarten and my grandson started with head start. The sooner they can get them, the sooner they can indoctrinate them.
Report Post »ckokkola
Posted on April 21, 2012 at 2:56am@Clear-eyed here is something you wrote:
Report Post »Also, freedom of religion means freedom from religion. Our morals do not come from our faith, they come from our biology. Studies of primates prove they feel: loyalty, sympathy towards weaker members, intolerance of cruelty, a sense of shame, even a sense of justice. Religion codifies and cements these traits, it does not create them.
First off freedom of religion is not freedom from religion. The Founding Fathers did some very religious things officially. 1st they started Congress in prayer, they started the Congressional Chaplain, they made the Supreme Court open in prayer, The Congress was the first to print bibles, they had used the Bible as a text book in schools and had prayer in schools, As President, Thomas Jefferson sent Christian Missionaries to the native Americans and globally funded by our government and the Capital building was used as a church until the 20th Century. And even after the ratification of the Constitution many states required the belief in God to run for office in their state Constitutions i.e. AR, MD, PA, SC, TN & TX So yeah they thought freedom from religion.
And that primates are so civil to each other lets look at the truth:
“Dr. de Waal, who is director of the Living Links Center at Emory University does not contend that even chimpanzees possess morality.”
“Young rhesus monkeys learn quickly how to behave, and occasionally get a finger or toe bitten off as punishment.” http://www.nytimes.com/20
HumbleMan
Posted on April 22, 2012 at 2:00pm@Chet,
Can you please restate your concern. I don’t get it. What does the mass of everyone on earth have to do with anything?
Report Post »mensa141
Posted on April 23, 2012 at 6:15pmI am a teacher and teach teachers so know quite a few. Our teachers are our neighbors, friends, and relatives. A few are nut jobs, some lean left and others lean right. Teh nut jobs feel they need to color any subject the way they see life. Now if the principals and other adminsitrators were doing their inspections and evaluations as they shoudl then these nut jobs woudl be weeded out of our system. Unfortunately most are not being evaluated correctly and then teach nutty things. Extreme Vegan ideas that screw your kids idea a nutrition up; terrorists for our founding fathers (they were the equivalent of terrorists to the crown) but not to Americans teaching in American schools; gays teaching that 50% of the population is LGBT; etc. Our schools are there to educate and socialize our children. Not to indoctrinate them into fringe beliefs.
Report Post »mensa141
Posted on April 23, 2012 at 6:17pmMost teachers teach correct history and the curriculum in almost every case is close to the actual truth. In some cases we get nut jobs who intend to re-write hsitory as they see it. Unfortunately our principals and adminstrators do nto weed these nut jobs out.
Report Post »bayhuntr
Posted on May 30, 2012 at 12:08pmI’ve asked around the family and all of the school kids say your story about the founders being terrorist is silly. The first thing I would have done is head on down to the school and talk to the teacher and make sure the statement wasn’t taken out of context, then if needed, filed a complaint; like any parent would do if this really happened. Everyone needs to remember, people can say anything on-line and when they give you nothing to back it up, it’s probably hyperbole at the least.
Report Post »RayOne
Posted on August 4, 2012 at 3:38pmI agree, the DoE has existed beyond its usefulness.How to teach is as important as What to teach and for the foreseeable past schools have been teaching, How to pass the test.
Report Post »And lately that has been a failure.
marybethelizabeth
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:20pmSo Thomas Jefferson declared himself Pope deciding what the religious missionaries could and could not teach?
Or Thomas Jefferson was the first Evangelical, choosing which portions of the Bible he liked and discarding the rest.
Report Post »Rayblue
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:34pmBoth hilarious assumptions are more for your own aggrandizement and self serving usurping of the facts than any sort of basis for a reply.
Report Post »kfalcon22000
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:37pmI can’t understand all these foolish remarks. The President served several roles. One of which was as the head of D.C. That is why he chose the Bible and Watt’s Hymnal as the textbooks for the Washington D.C. schools. As one of the leaders in his church, why would he not put together a Bible study for the missionaries to use? That is all he did. He isolated the teachings of Jesus as a first introduction to the Bible. That is what all Christians do, being that Christ is the center of our faith.
Report Post »texasbeta
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:20pmThis is moronic. We have copies of the Jefferson Bible. It directly contradicts the habitual liar David Barton. He took out the miracles. He took out the magic. No virgin birth. No casting out of demons. I mean, do you guys realize or even care what people like Barton and Beck and yes, Romney think of you? They think you are too ignorant and lazy to look anything up, so they just say any crazy ass thing they want…and what happens, you don’t even bother to check. Open up a Jefferson Bible. This isn’t rocket science. Don’t you people care to give a 30 second effort to find out if these things are correct?
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:20pm*sigh*
Momma always said, stupid is as stupid does. Thomas Jefferson focuses on the verses in the Bible that were specific to Jesus Christ’s direct teachings, and you extrapolate that to “Thomas Jefferson declared himself Pope”.
Huh. Clearly.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:55amtexasbeta – Prove you have a Jefferson Bible. Create a web page and show us pictures.
Forgive me, but you are a FN liar.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 8:06amInquiring Minds want to know… just what did Christ say… as opposed to what others say that He said and meant!
Personnally… following this logic… I think Christ taught His own Gospel: The Kingdom Of GOD On Earth!
Report Post »warriorspirit
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 8:06amTexasbeta is correct. He reworked the Bible because he (and other Founding Fathers) didn’t believe in the “supernatural” stuff in the Bible. That is why they didn’t see themselves as Christians. They did believe in God and believe that many of the things in the Bible were of good use and should be followed but the “events” that didn’t fit with science where seen as man embellishing the “Good Book” with stories.
Report Post »marybethelizabeth
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 9:48amThe Jefferson Bible is still in print. See for yourself.
This is a continuation of Mr. Beck’s double speak and faux apologetics. It is the same as the blasphemous quote about Questioning the Very Existence of God that Mr. Beck constantly falls back on. But if you look at the context of the Thomas Jefferson quote, it is not the dark night of the soul musing that Mr. Beck makes it out to be. He is basically saying Christians are stupid for their blind belief.
Report Post »Unix
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 11:39amMBE – is just another cross-eyed liberal communist, who, when confronted with FACT, falls back on lies. It is a shame these amoebas cannot find the brain power to think critically, and use their ‘indoctrinated’ lies to further their cause, it is so transparent. Anyway, you trolls don’t bother me in the least, I get a good laugh when you come onto the Blaze to spew your skewed views. One day you may wake up, but I seriously doubt it, at least, not until it is too late for you to do anything about it.
Report Post »TomSawyer
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:12pmOr you just over generalized what was said. Jefferson never claimed to be pope. He was the president directing how federal funds were spent.
Report Post »texasbeta
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:42pmHey monkeys….you prove you are too lazy to even type 2 words into Google. Buy it for yourselves. Once again…Beck followers couldn’t care less if what was said is accurate, never do.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Jefferson-Bible-Thomas/dp/0807077143
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:54pm@MARYBETHELIZABETH
Your comments aren’t worth the time to decipher.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:15pmHey Texasbeta,
Please cite, in detail, the exact contradictions you speak of.
But before you go through all the trouble…….did you watch David Barton on Glenn’s show yesterday?
I’m gonna guess that no……..you did not.
Report Post »mcsledge
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:21pmI doubt you know much about the Bible so your qualifications in commenting are weak at best.
Report Post »lornaduwn
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:13pmCatholic means Christian. What we refer to as “Catholic” today; is the Roman Catholic Church. Protestants, then and now, refer to the Holy Catholic Church in their creed. Jefferson wished to have Christianity taught, NOT a particular church of Christianity. So therefore, Jefferson did NOT “declare himself Pope” as you say even figuratively.
Report Post »lornaduwn
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:23pmWarrior Spirit:
Your comment, “He reworked the Bible because he (and other Founding Fathers) didn’t believe in the “supernatural” stuff in the Bible”, is not factual.
Question: Is rising from the dead supernatural?
Report Post »Just one more question: Why would Jefferson include the razing of Lazarus if he didn’t believe in the “supernatural stuff in the Bible”.
kaydeebeau
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 7:36pmWell by all means let’s discount the actual writings of Jefferson (that Barton has and cites as proof of his position and conclusions) and go with something else.
That is the trouble with Leftists and atheists (such “free, logical thinkers”) when confronted with compeling evidence to the contrary they cling fast and refuse to see because they do not want to see.
We as a society would be far better off if we all would fit our lives to the truth instead of trying to twist the truth to fit our lives
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 8:18pmYes Kaydeebeau, we would be better off. Far better off.
But will the progressives ever be able to bring themselves to accept the realization that everything they have worked towards for the last 100 years was a monumental waste of time and effort?
Lets hope so.
Report Post »texasbeta
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 11:34pmGood lord you people are lazy. First, there was no mention of the raising of Lazarus in the Jefferson Bible. Once again – BUY THE FREAKING BOOK AND READ IT.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/the-jefferson-bible-to-be-published-in-color-by-the-smithsonian-55165/
Finally, tell me…you bitch about a welfare state, lazy people, but NEVER lift a finger for the sake of learning or acquiring information. How many people have asked me to do the work for them?
Report Post »Get off of your asses. It is in the book. It isn’t a mystery. You can buy if for 3 bucks on Amazon or go to Barnes N Noble. DON’T BE LAZY IDIOTS. Actually care about what is factual enough to check once in a freaking while.
Poorfessor
Posted on April 23, 2012 at 1:43pmAn abridged version can serve two purposes. 1. To alter the meaning of the original. 2. To convey the meaning in a condensed or simplified way. What is not included can be relevant, but for the sake of simplicity or even cost is not included. To say that Jefferson did not believe anything that was not included, you would have to deny he believed, what he did include.
Read why, then what, and see if you can rationally come to the conclusion that the Gospel of Christ was indeed presented in a way that was simple and easy to grasp. If Jefferson did not believe that Christ was indeed the Savior, then why did he go to such lengths to make it simple enough that a fool could find the way.
Report Post »bayhuntr
Posted on May 30, 2012 at 12:24pmI think your statement went over some heads. TJ didn’t believe in the old testament, miracles or the divinity of Christ and he removed all of these things from his version of the Bible. Now what separates TJ from Evangelicals who claim the Bible is the exact word of God, is he openly admitted what he did. Evangelicals pretend they follow the Bible, but in reality, they only follow what is convenient at the time.
Report Post »mrsuperpat
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:13pmIf you people wanted Jefferson you would have been rallying behind Ron Paul. He is the closest you can get. But the controllers have most of the sheep scared of boogymans and wanting handouts. The 2009 Tea Part and Occupy ripped off the only real political movement happening in the US. Watch and learn.
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak5Op4Bo4QU
IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:17pmYou are right, I have to agree! Good video. Thanks.
Report Post »Eaglesnest
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:32pmI tried to, but not many people were willing to listen or follow me, unfortunately.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:22pmYeah….Ron Paul’s leftist acolytes yet again try to connect the Tea Party to Occupy, and then declare that Ron Paul invented the Tea Party, Occupy, Freedom and America.
Is there anything that Ron Paul CAN’T do?
Report Post »stage9
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:00amLOL! Ron Paul wouldn’t use federal funds to give to missionary work!
LOL! Try again loon!
Report Post »Jude 4
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:06pmThe whole wallbuilders premise is contrary to what Jesus taught. Mr Barton erroneously joins politics with religion, something Jesus, nor the Apostles never did. He is fundamentally ‘calvinistic’, which leads to the inevitable conclusion that one can do whatever they choose, as long as they tag it with the name of ‘christian’ or ‘ministry’. He joined in “prayer” with someone (Mr Beck) that is outspokenly supportive of a false prophet (Joseph Smith); a “prayer” that didn’t rise beyond the top of their heads. Mr Barton is ‘deistical’ by his advocacy for the founders. He speaks as if it is an indisputable fact that the forming of the U.S was akin to a new ‘Israel’ being formed or the like. Read the debates and the remonstrants before the revolution started, especially some of the Methodist circuit riders. Colonist and the British were shooting each other over bar-room brawls on a number of occasions. The gosple never sanctions the violent overthrow of government, but Mr Barton and his followers speak as if there was a divine word given to the founders to do just that. Winning a war is no sign of Gods favor. The Babylonians nearly annhiliated Israel, but they were wicked, and their end came suddenly. These people are simply using a form of religion to ‘make merchandise” of (fleece) the people. An art as old as man.
Report Post »IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:15pmI guess you missed the sermon about give unto Caesar what is his and give unto GOD what is HIS!
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:30pmThe Holy Bible demands respect for leaders – But, The Apostle Peter was ” Carrying ,“ and Jesus will come back ” Packing.”
Report Post »TyrannyNoMore
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:33pmYour rant reminds of of the pharisees who stood before Jesus and accused him. You are just as blind and ill-informed as they were.
Report Post »kfalcon22000
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:42pmYou obviously never read Joshua, 1 and 2 Samuel. As for Israel, the faithfulness of the leaders determined the fate of the nation. They suffered for the sins of David big time. However, when the leaders were faithful, God protected them.
Do you remember how the Israelites were ordered to take the Promised Land by force? I guess not.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:51pmWhile I remind you of the Pharisees , you remind me of those left behind.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:06amI love it when the lefties on this site actually profess how smart they are and how they know what Jefferson did and didn’t do. How David Barton, a historian by trade and collects actually written words of the founding fathers and probably could run circles around you twits with both hands tied behind his back. What God really meant when he said this or that in the Bible.
You guys are so full of crap, I don’t know where to begin. Plus you are probably under the mistaken thought that your crap down stink. Let me assure you YOU STINK TO HIGH HEAVEN, EVEN GOD IS HOLDING HIS NOSE.
ARROGANT B ALL OF YOU.
Report Post »DYNA
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:53am@JUDE4
If by politics you mean government and by religion you mean God, Mr. Barton is correct. God the Father of Jesus, wants to reign in government as He reigns in the hearts and minds of men. It is by Him that kings reign and rulers decree what is just. Unless you want Satan enthroned by electing those who walk in darkness.
Apart from Jesus the Christ good government will not exist. All authority in both heaven and earth has been given to Him. And He will work in His body of believers if they know His will and live in their God given covenant rights.
The fall of nations engaged in war may not be a sign of God’s favor, but winning wars and avoiding wars requires His favor. When a man’s ways please the Lord He will make even his enemies to be at peace with him. For God to be on our side we had better be on His side. If God be for me, who can be against me? When those in authority thumb their nose at God and exalt that which is vile, this becomes problematic.
It is wise for one to know God’s covenant of protection for himself.
Report Post »DYNA
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:54am@JUDE4
The religious traditions of men have made the Word of God of no affect in their lives. Fortunately Jesus is not religious. These religious traditions include the thought that Jesus is a pacifist. Not so. Men of faith have subdued kingdoms administered justice, won strength and became stalwart even mighty and resistless in battle, routing alien hosts.
Good government is God’s servant for our good. Good government is God’s servant to execute his wrath (punishment, vengeance) on the wrongdoer. Again this becomes problematic when the wicked / twisted are in office. The wicked call evil good, and good evil. Exercising the faith that comes by knowing God can change this just as those whose faith in God founded the United States.
Report Post »Wyo_Kan
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:28pmAs a lifelong conservative I must say that I am ashamed of the people who are attempting to defend their position just by beating the messenger. Name calling, etc. has no place in intelligent debate and public discourse. Just because someone has a different opinion does not make them a liberal…
That said, actually, Jude 4 is not that far off here. I have done a good deal of research on this subject (Junction of Christianity/Americanism) and even as a Conservative patriot & a Christian I cannot condone the combination of the two.
Report Post »To those who mention the Pharisees, I would caution you. That reference does not reinforce your position. Those were the religious right of the day. They utilized the power of government to make all under their jurisdiction adhere to their religious views. Jesus was more libertarian then anything, because He did not recognize either religious or secular authorities that conflicted with what His calling was. However he obeyed both unless they did.
To the reference to “Give unto Ceaser… Give unto God” that precisely illustrates my point above. Jesus taught that one should obey earthly laws only in so far as they did not intersect with the spiritual. But as long as they did not, one must be subject to them, no matter how unjust they were. He also never advocated that his followers try to influence government, but rather that they be a positive influence in whatever place or position they were called to. In power or in prison.
kaydeebeau
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 7:48pm@ Wyo…not quite…God divines government, read the Torah, which is the foundation of Divine Government. It is expected that a moral and righteous people will elect moral and righteous representatives ( a founding principle from the Bible) when the foundation by which to become a moral and righteous people (The Bible) is removed, along with all reference to the Grantor of Rights, God, the very foundation is destroyed.
Since Jesus did not come to abolish the law (the Torah) but to fulfill that law (blood sacrifice for the remission of sin) the teachings of the Torah are still valid and the most effective rules upon which to structure a government.
Might also suggest a re-reading of the book of Titus…..
Report Post »Biddle
Posted on April 23, 2012 at 3:46pm“The gosple never sanctions the violent overthrow of government, but Mr Barton and his followers speak as if there was a divine word given to the founders to do just that.” well said. Its sickening to digest especially for those so devoted to country, however it is true. The US “appears as a lamb”, but “speaks as a dragon.” Its all right there. Christ followers are aliens in a strange land…this is not our home. Peace.
Report Post »Brother Winston Smith
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:03pmWhy would FAKE-conservative/libertarian Beck care about Jefferson or the Bible? Neither match his goals of complete Central Government Planning… by tricking naive Americans into thinking he’s the guide… AWAY from it.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:45amBrother Winston,
I believe you to be smoking something other than Winstons.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:10amOh so you are now an expert on what Glenn thinks?
Damn you are Arrogant. Don’t you think Glenn knows what he is interested in more than you? See what you fail to see is David Barton is Glenn’s friend, you are not.
All you leftist wanna bee’s that come on this site, you are freaking jokes. If I were Media Blathers, I’d fire your ___________. Ya’ll are useless and clueless.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:35amI am usually pretty good at telling when someone is lying, and I do trust that Glenn Beck believes what he says. And he is doing a great service to us for exposing truth. That is why these guys are all in a tizzy.
Report Post »bayhuntr
Posted on May 30, 2012 at 12:47pmTexas.7, I guess if you can debate with facts and sources, the next best thing is to debate by saying “I can tell if someone is telling the truth”
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:43pmI believe both Thomas Jefferson and Issac Newton were Deist ; and , that concept provoked the Church at that time but, fit so aptly with their philosophies of Christianity. They were both, very serious concerning Salvation – Deism carries a different meaning today than it did yesterday – definitions change over time and they are, as well, revised to fit the religious climate.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:54pmThanks for your view, which brings things into a better perspective – satan does have a way of twisting things to get his way. ping.Man I wish you guys would quite messing with my ty
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:01pmWell you’ve got your reward anyways at the very least eh? You, know, when you were born into this life you received the fruit from God while still in the womb from whatever you did last time.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:04pmNewton’s concept of Deism is Pentecostal , which overlaps the doctrine of the Apostle Paul.
Report Post »GJPinks
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:09pmNewton was a VERY religious Christian. Don’t worry, most people don’t have even a basic understanding of history and the people who made it so it is very unlikely anyone will correct your errors.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:38pmNot worried !
Report Post »Tandem2011
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:25pmSEARCHING, you’re suggesting that Satan has the powers of a god (by having such influence) when Christianity teaches monotheism — ONE GOD. Satan is a slow-to-die superstition. Read the scholarly books on the roots of that myth. Scholar Elaine Pagels wrote a very good book on Satan.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:59pmI know all that I need to know about the creep, satan . For me and my House we serve God – Jesus!
Report Post »DYNA
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:36am@Tandem2011
Best to read or meditate on the Bible directly. God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired and Holy Spirit revealed Words. It is only revealed to those born of the Holy Spirit or born again in Christ.
Report Post »Check a Bible concordance. Satan is very real. Good to know that the peace from God towards me crushes satan under my feet. Those who do not know God and the redemption in Jesus are ignorant of satan and do not resist the creep.
Just in time
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:36pmDavid Barton’s agenda is to teach us history. If you diagree, please bring your facts and evidence to back up what you say. And also your creditials. Just like he has done. Only then will I be open to listen to what you have to say. Just as I was open to listen to what he had to say.
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:09pmBarton: “I Don’t Consider Myself A Historian” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI-WRccsrwM
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:19pmHere are some more links which I posted already but I do not see a mechanism on this site to link to that post so I will include them for your reference.
Barton: The Constitution Reflects The Bible “Verbatim” http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D3WMRxjrK8o
Barton: America Declared Independence Over Issue of Slavery http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ4×8TZ9Ipg&feature=relmfu
Barton: “The Due Process Clause of The Constitution Came Out Of The Bible” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8uNc9mXrhU&feature=relmfu
Report Post »huntinwabbits
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 8:21amConsidering the Bible is one of the greatest history books of all time, I’d say your only proving the point
Report Post »justangry
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:22amWhy do you ask for credentials from everyone except Barton? Has he defended a thesis from other historians and gotten that diploma? Until he does, I think I’ll stick with my old advisors interpretation who defended her thesis at Harvard. See, I too am a stickler for credentials…
Report Post »Ted Doe
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:34pmI read the Blaze every day and sometimes look at the comments to see what other readers think and say about the various stories covered. This story is in my wheelhouse. I went to UVA and know a little about Mr. Jefferson . Mr. Jefferson did what each of us should. Search for personal truth about everything, especially one’s own unique understanding of the meaning of God. Mr. Jefferson found his. And, because he happened to be extremely famous and influential, way too many people try to interpret what he was believing and thinking. Which, if you really understood Mr. Jefferson, you would know that he would tell you no one can ever know what goes on in the mind of any other person. He would argue that each of us is totally unique and must find our own definitions of God. And, when you find that truth you will have a greater understanding of the purpose of our existence and appreciate the true meaning of “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”
Report Post »Pouncing Porcupine
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:58pm“Personal truth”? There is only “Truth”. Nobody has their own “personal truth”. As the saying goes, there are three sides to every story: Yours, mine, and the Truth.
From what I understand, Jefferson did not believe in the Bodily Resurrection of Christ, which is the Supreme Doctrine of all Christendom. If it‘s true that he didn’t believe in It, nothing else really mattered as far as he was concerned spiritually.
Report Post »luvmykids
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:10pmCite your source(s) please, more than just where you went to college. From what book(s) are you gathering your information?
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:17pmWell see, there are, indeed , miracles – you were allowed to type an opinion.
Report Post »Ted Doe
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:49pmPersonal truth, self-understanding … There is no other truth than the one a person believes. You can’t find it in books. You can‘t find it in another person’s words. You won‘t find it in another person’s truth. You can only find it in the dialog you have with the quiet, still voice in your heart and mind. Some call this prayer. Maybe many of the critics on this post should spend more time in quiet prayer instead of bickering and quarreling about matters you can not solve or fully comprehend. God is a personal matter and can only be understood through mindful searching for personal truth. In short, find your own meanings and definitions of God . Don’t accept those of others, since they may be false prophets…
Report Post »Mannax
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 6:18amInteresting thought, Ted but I think you worded it poorly. It is not come to their own truth. It is that they come to the “Truth” via their own path. The “Truth” is the destination, an no two people can follow the exact same path to get there. They may go down the same road, but even then they will have different experiences on that road that will lead them to the “Truth”. Some people will go off road and through the woods a bit before they find it and others will just never find it for lack of trying, will, or desire.
Report Post »Hythloday
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:31pmWhy are there trolls…because they have no homes, as their too busy burning bridges after their done living under them. I do enjoy the high standard of debate the trolls bring to the table: David Barton is a liar; he slants things; he just says propaganda; he’s a poopy face. Trolls spend so much time projecting their own behavior on others, they mistake banality for cleverness. No counter arguments, no citations, not a speck of ‘academic’ debate (the term so many of you seem to use to justify a claim), let alone the mountain you would actually need to even start your counter points. No evidence of any kind to support their own conclusions. And no, you can’t use Howard Zinn as a source. Trolls make terrible lawyers.
Report Post »IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:10pmThe question is who is the troll? Those that agree with Barton or those that appear here to spread unproven statements. And disrupt a good discussion of a great American.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:32amI agree, lots of trolls out on this story, which means that David Barton has upset the enemy. Well, that is fine. It was a great show, and as always, I learned a lot from the man. If David Barton taught the Bible as Literature classes, I might be ok with them in the class room. But our kids are subjected to the likes of these trolls teaching them truth, and they are a captive audience. Sure, we do the best we can as parents, but the world is our enemy, and darkness is growing. Home school if you can.
Report Post »jzs
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:30pmYou know, this is kind of silly. Jefferson was a deist, not a theist. He believed in a creator, a being that created the universe. He believed in a universal morality, a morality accessible by pure reason. He believed Jesus was a profound moral philosopher (as I do), and someone who had a unique insight into the universal morality he believed existed.
He did not believe in the miracles of the Bible. He did not believe that Jesus was the “son of God” in any literal sense and thought the idea of the “virgin birth” of Jesus was a myth. He did not think that Jesus received direct communication from God, but only that Jesus, through pure reason, was able to understand and teach the universal morality Jefferson believed in.
He thought much of the Bible was pure fiction of “inferior minds” and thought Revelations in particular was nonsense.
Report Post »Just in time
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:42pmJzs, you brought your credintials with you right. No, you did not bring your facts and evidence either. Go back under your rock and try again. Make a little mental note. “ Bring facts and evidence”
Report Post »luvmykids
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:08pmInteresting. I’d like to see first hand where you gathered this information. Please share the source from which you learned this. I tend to believe primary sources vs text without sources for obvious reasons. Did you know a book called The Godless Constitution by Isaac Kramnick has NO footnotes!? Isn’t that amazing that one can write a historical book and have nothing to back it up! No wonder everyone is confused. That book is actually being used in US colleges. There is another book called A People’s Constitution by Howard Zinn, a known communist. The FBI has hundreds of files on the guy. This book is being used in our public schools to teach American History. As you can imagine, it does not put a positive light on the USA. No wonder we have the OWS people. It‘s what they’ve been taught. I recently discovered my son’s school is using this . There is another book his school uses called We the People: The Citizen and the Constitution. It is being used all over our country because it was passed out to teachers free of charge, compliments of the taxpayer. The first federally funded textbook ever. Did I mention it was never subjected to peer review? Huh? It OMITS the 9th and 10th amendments, the ones that limits the power of the federal government. Also leaves out the 2nd amendment, the right to bear arms. You do know the first step in changing history is to omit it. Scary! I urge parents to find out what books are being used and demand better choi
Report Post »luvmykids
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:14pmSorry, I titled Howard Zinn’s book incorrectly. It‘s A People’s History of the United States. It makes me think of The People’s Car, compliments of Adolph Hitler.
Report Post »IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:25pm@luvmykids
Report Post »Those are interesting facts, thanks for pointing them out! Look forward to check it out with more time!
jzs
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:31pmluvmykids, past your first two sentences, you are off topic. Sorry, I don’t know anything about those books without footnotes. If they’re crappy books written by people who are no good, I believe you. Whatever.
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814
Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820
http://www.nobeliefs.com/j
Report Post »luvmykids
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:58pmJZS,
Regarding your comment,
“luvmykids, past your first two sentences, you are off topic. Sorry, I don’t know anything about those books without footnotes. If they’re crappy books written by people who are no good, I believe you. Whatever.”
Ignorance is no excuse for the truth.
Attacking someone‘s character certainly doesn’t help one find truth either. Except about you. Play nice.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:03amJZS,
You can sign up for 2 free weeks of GBTV.
Once you do that, you will have access to previous shows that you can watch at you leisure.
Tune in to the show that aired today. Then you will have the information needed to keep you from making another uneducated post like the one I unfortunately just read.
Remember, it’s FREE
Come on JZS, quit limiting yourself to just Media Matters and the Daily KOS.
I know those are your only sources, because everything you say can be found in those two places.
Open your horizons.
By the way, did you like the link I gave you a while ago…..the communist fashion show?
Here it is again if you missed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ
Veeeery nice.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:28amJZS,
You post a link to a “Freethinkrs” atheist website?
I guess I was wrong……..I’ll add that to your list of reading material.
Think “free” now
Report Post »Goldwaterite
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:34amWay to counter the qutoes JZS just posted Luvmykids and Billy. Doesn’t Revelation 22:19 spell out that anyone subtracting from the bible will go to hell? As Jefferson HAD to have read the bible to piece together his own version (minus all the miracles, magic and divinity ascribed to Jesus) he must have read that passage and known the penalty for his transgression against the “holy word.” As an aside, David Barton has no credentials to speak of, so why does he get respect from you if you demand your opponents have credentials? Is it only because his world view matches up with your own? That is intellectual dishonesty.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:38amJZSaul,
You are up to 3 material sources now……….
Media matters Not
The Daily KOS
Nobeliefs website
http://www.nobeliefs.com/index.htm
JZS my link actually works, and it’s the homepage of your link.
Click on the “HAPPY420” near the top of the page and watch the vid after the ad.
Your credibility diminishes a bit more each day JZS.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:51am@Goldwaterhead,
Take the same advice I have given to JZS, and watch Glenns show from Thursday.
Then you will see flaw that you made in your post that was actually discussed on said show.
When you do that, come back and we’ll talk.
We don’t have to counter JZS, no one around here takes anything he says seriously anymore.
Not anyone that matters, anyway.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 3:00am@GOLDWATERITE
Sorry for the name calling, really.
I apologize
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 8:01am”
The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.”
“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus”
“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors. ”
all Thomas Jefferson quotes. now, does that sound like some sort of religious man? Barton is doing what he does best – make stuff up.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:06pm@ Philly… if you are going to copy and paste others’ writings (nice try – the very circular non-reasoning of your “post” is a dead give away – when will you leftists understand that we are not your mindless drone audience *sigh*)
Thanks for “playing”. though…..Next….
Report Post »cous1933
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:23pmI am a Ron Paul supporter because of Thomas Jefferson. I have read volumes of Jeffersons own writings, as well as “The Jefferson Bible”, and a few biographies of Jefferson. I consider him to be our greatest, most moral, and wisest founding father. I also agree with David Barton that Jefferson is the most slandered and misrepresented of any great American in our history.
Report Post »Anyone who takes the time to research both Ron Paul and Thomas Jefferson will realize that among politicians today, there is no-one with Jeffersons incredible intelligence, morality, and perfect understanding of the true concepts of individual liberty, but Ron Paul is, by far, the closest we have come to Jefferson in generations. Like Jefferson, Paul is also slandered and misrepresented by those who, for some strange reason, hate and fear liberty.
Of course the people who believe all of the nonsense that is said about Ron Paul today are the same people who, without doing any of their own research, believe the un-true slanders against Jefferson, such as being a Deist (or even an Atheist), fathering a child (or even multiple children) with Sally Hemmings, etc. etc.
I believe that in both cases, if you research these men, you will find the kind of character that is needed in a leader of a free nation, rather than the corporatist phonies that about 98% of todays politicians truly are.
Texas.7
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:54amtoo bad Ron Paul didn’t sound so scary at times. I don’t believe he really knows the enemy we face, as he is a bit left leaning on several issues. But, I will say this- I’m not sure any candidate knows the enemy we face. The question is, who will put us on the right path? Quite honestly, not sure, but I’ll bet my vote on the the republican candidate, who at least will try to somewhat appease the Tea Party. Honestly, though, we need revival more than any certain man. We need a revival of Biblical proportions. Jesus is truly our only hope, and in Him can we trust.
Report Post »marjorie faye
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:22pmI greatly respect David Barton, but I have a problem with this. For one thing, I’ve read that the leaders of the time wanted to “Christianize” the native Americans so they would be less hostile toward the colonists. Also, I am wondering why the word God is not capitalized when quoting Barton near the beginning of this article. Probably just an oversight, but Barton probably would not appreciate that. Again, I greatly respect him.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:26pmWell, why don’t you go fight to create a nation? Oh I forgot, American men don’t even like delivering their children, let alone fight for their own nation, and deliver their own nation. You deserve neither liberty nor security.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:41pmThe only Jefferson Lies, are the ones told by Beck and Barton.
http://www.liarsforjesus.com/
Report Post »IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:06pm@marjorie faye
Report Post »Yes, early settlers did try and Christianize, only in the way of teaching them about the gospel, the same as Jesus and his disciples did! That is what GOD expects from Christians, to go out and teach the Gospel! And Christians would be less likely to kill Christians. The word GOD is not capitalized; probably the writer (not Barton) of the article may have over looked it or does not know the importance of the capitalization of GOD! I too, like what Barton has to say!
Just in time
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:17pmI love the way David brings real facts and evidence with him to back up what he is presenting. God bless and keep the both of them. They need support in these most trying of times.
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:21pmHow do you explain away all the lies he has told? I have linked directly to him telling them at various places in this discussion which you can find by searching for my name.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 12:17pmBarton and Beck and latter day P.T. Barnums. Of course Beck is going to let the liar speak, the liar is being published through Beck’s house of lies.
Report Post »IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:16pmChristianity is something that scares a lot of people! Fear is darkness and when people are blinded by the darkness they perish not knowing the love and peace of GOD. It’s hard to understand that GOD gave us the freedom to choose our paths and behaviors. When things go bad for believers others are quick to point out “GOD wouldn’t let that happen”. It amazes me daily the amount of effort put forth by the lack of understanding, to fight the advancement of Christian beliefs, by such a HUGE group that claim there is no GOD. If there is no GOD, then why fight to destroy HIM? There is only one GOD! I personally rather spend my life believing in GOD as a believer, instead of spending my life not believing in HIM and suffer the consequences at the end knowing what HE teaches! Thank you Jesus!
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:45pmWell at least you have faith in something. Even though myself, I would not take my five year old son out riding around in a hot-red Ferrari saying “Look what you can have son, and all you have to do is go through 12 grueling years of college.“ And then say ”You know what son, how about a taste of being behind the wheel of this hot ride right now, let me by you a scaled down version of a Ferrari so you can enjoy it now, before you know the value of a dollar, and education.” I think that might tend to kill his spirit a little bit.
Report Post »TPaine
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:09pmGod scares people because He calls them to account for their actions. And they do not want to be accountable to anyone. If they want to do something that God says is wrong, then they have to answer for that. But if there is no God, then anything they want to do is okay. Good example is pornography. It used to be illegal, but now it is part of national television. Watch any of the recent new shows on network TV. And the nation as a whole seems to think this is okay. “If you don’t like it, you don’t have to watch it!” is no response. It is pervasive, and no one cares anymore. The “F” word is acceptable on TV now…and watch the Oscars or any of the trade award shows.
There is no respect, there is no honor, no honesty, and it’s all because there is no moral law without the Creator. People are so happy now that they don’t have any rules to follow. And we are now headed off that cliff to self-destruction. Ain’t it great without God?
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:25pm“If there is no GOD, then why fight to destroy HIM?”
Atheists aren’t fighting god they are fighting his followers. Or do you think it is acceptable for people to try to remove kids from a parent simply because that parent is atheist?
You really expect people to sit back while their families are being attacked?
Report Post »IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:30pm@TPaine Great post! Excellent!
Report Post »IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:34pm@itsjusttim
Report Post »Still have not received that decipher book yet, looking forward to reading your posts, please get that deciphering book out, asap! Thanks.
ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:39pmTPaine,
If that was true why are so few atheists in jail?
Report Post »IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:50pm@ScienceIsNotEvil
Report Post »Sorry, I believe they are not Christians, you respond with nothing I know about, I am sorry if you have been hurt or attacked by someone that claims to be a Christian! However, it was not me! That must be a great burden to experience; my heart goes out to you. We lost a child, also many years ago, very, very painful, and no matter what people may tell you, you will never get over it! It’s been 32 years. But, GOD blessed us with two other beautiful girls. And I do understand your anger, it just was not me and I truly believe that a true Christian would do that! Again, sorry for your pain.
ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:07pmIDONTTHINKSO,
In the future please respond to what I actually wrote instead of taking the dishonest way of pretending I said something totally different than what I actually said.
Report Post »TreeTrimmerJim
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:31am@scienceisnotevil… “Atheists aren’t fighting god they are fighting his followers.” Why? Which non-belief do feel is worth fighting to have? That no person should have a belief that is different than yours?
I checked your links… whats the point you’re raising? Wording or thought? If wording which version? In which language? If thought, what is the correct thought according to scienceisnotevil?
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 6:18pmSCIENCEISNOTEVIL Says:
“If that was true why are so few atheists in jail?”
Hey scieneisnotevil,
Since I am after all “Groucho”, and if you are familiar with Groucho, please try to visualize Groucho answering your question in his own unique way………
“Well I dunno……..maybe cuz dere ain’t dat many atheists in da foist place?”
Report Post »Words_of_the_Buddah
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:11pmA man such as Beck only promotes disdain for his brothers. It matters not what he says, but that he means to create panic and hatred in the general public. He does not follow the teaching of your Christ, obviously showing hatred for other humans. It is men like him that showed me the ways of Christ are flawed; the teachings of Buddha are the way to enlightenment.
Report Post »Mark0331
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:29pm@Words…, Surely you have seen Buddhist monks fighting in Sri Lanka, Viet Nam and each other in Tibet?…they are not immune from the ‘sins’ of man either…I have seen it with my own eyes…but you can google it if you have to…you have computer, use it. Sohei might be a good place to start. Know history.
Report Post »IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:49pmSo to warn people of the pitfalls of not knowing about GOD and point out those that strive to do away with Christian teaching is creating panic and hatred in the general public. Like most idol worshipers you are confused. In life, do you not protect those near and dear to you? To call a cobra a cobra and tell others the dangers of that cobra saves lives that is what GOD is about saving lives!
Report Post »mjazzguitar
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:06pmA lady told me how a woman chopped a chicken’s leg off for getting in the grain. She had a baby and it’s leg was deformed. Being Buddhist they interpreted this as punishment for chopping the chicken’s leg off.
Report Post »So the chicken suffers, the mom suffers for what she did, and I guess the baby suffers because he did something bad in a past life. Lotta suffering in Buddha-ism.
PapaPatriarch
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 4:54amBuddists also kept slaves and supprted a caste sytem of slavery that locked people in generation poverty.
Report Post »Words_of_the_Buddah
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:07pm@Mark0331 All living beings are subject to dukkha. The words of the Buddha teach us how to overcome dukkha, part of reaching enlightenment. As your teachings say “for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god,” we say that all live with dukkha.
@IDONTTHINKSO You talk as if I worship the Buddha. I worship no being, living or dead. The Buddha is but a teacher a guide to enlightenment. I am less confused following the Buddha then I was when I followed Christ. The teachings of your god advocate peace, nonviolence, loving thy neighbor, aiding the poor, and turning the other cheek. Your Glenn Beck promotes hatred and distrust to his fellow man, and wants you to fear one another. Even if you fear the cobra, there is no reason to hate it, for it is just trying to live, as you do.
@mjazzguitar There is suffering everywhere; life is suffering. That is why we seek enlightenment, to end the suffering in life. Karma is real, it happens every day.
@PapaPatriarch Those are Hindus you are thinking of. You talk like Christians are free from guilt in that matter; might you look at this country merely 150 years ago?
Abandon abusive speech… Speak words that are soothing to the ear, that are affectionate, that go to the heart, that are polite, appealing and pleasing to people at large.
Report Post »PapaPatriarch
Posted on April 21, 2012 at 9:00amI wasnt reffering to the untouchables, unseeables, unaproachables of the hindu caste system. I was reffering to how the buddist idols are made of gold, the temples are made of gold, and all the monks wear rags and eat bean curd all day and work fields and beg on the streets for their masters who horde the wealth. Pray to something pounded in it’s shape by humans if you want, but we call it pagananism, or idol worship, and by the way, meditating before it all day is worship.
Report Post »Abbotts had countless slaves on hand in your typical monestary. The whole religion is a cult.
shards of narsil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:02pmreally, is anyone here willing to do the verbal gymnastics to tell me how that october, 1813 jefferson letter to john adams was not at the very least, indicative of some very serious and deep doubts of the mainstream views of christianity of his time?
Report Post »Mark0331
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:11pm@King Elendil..I think if you read the quote itself, you will find that he did in fact have reservations about the ‘interpreters’ of the Word at his time in history…in fact he wanted the ‘purest’ and easiest way to pass along the Word to those who he deemed most in need of it. ‘Diamonds in a dunghill’. In fact this seems to jive with what what Barton is saying…seems easy enough.
Report Post »shards of narsil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:59pmthis post is stupid. not surprising for this site though. jefferson’s letter to adams in october, 1813.
In extracting the pure principles which he taught, we should have to strip off the artificial vestments in which they have been muffled by priests, who have travestied them into various forms, as instruments of riches and power to themselves. We must dismiss the Platonists and Plotinists, the Stagyrites and Gamalielites, the Eclectics, the Gnostics and Scholastics, their essences and emanations, their logos and demiurges, aeons and daemons, male and female, with a long train of … or, shall I say at once, of nonsense. We must reduce our volume to the simple evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the amphibologisms into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves. There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man. I have performed this operation for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill. The result is an octavo of forty-six pages, of pure and unsophisticated doctrines.”
Report Post »Just in time
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:23pmShards, what are your credentials? David has them out for everyone to see.
Report Post »IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:32pmIt was about getting a simple easy to express version of the gospel that could be shared with all levels of intelligence and break down language barriers for ease of interpretation. If all could read and understand and express a true translation across all cultures it would greatly eliminate the confusion and provide a way to possibly curtail its misuse by individual or organizational gain. Corrupting the WORD to take advantage of the converted, is a big part of how bad things are now!
Report Post »D-Fence
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:55pmnice name calling
Report Post »Robert999
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:53pmJefferson, along with Thomas Paine and others who were anti-religious and anti-Christian should be stricken from the list of Founders.
Report Post »dissentnow
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:06pmOr you could just distort the truth about them like Barton does. Both the left and the right re-write the legacy of the founding fathers to fit their particular political agendas. The left paints the founders out to be evil, racist, slave owners and the right paints them out to be holier-than-thou bible thumpers. Neither are true.
Report Post »dissentnow
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:09pmYou can’t be serious? Removing Jefferson and Paine? You must be a liberal troll
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:13pmDid you know Jefferson, then how do you know he was anti-religious? Maybe Jefferson realized that Jesus wouldn‘t impress people with miracles because a Father doesn’t show that which is too far ahead of understanding “To show your face – so to speak.” And maybe Jefferson knew that which Jesus meant when he said this generation will get no sign. I think healing an actual lame hand is a sign – don’t you?
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:17pmMaybe, just maybe, Thomas Jefferson didn’t release his slaves and become very outspoken against it, because he understood you catch more bees with honey rather than vinegar, and perhaps he knew that would “Crucify” any chances of forming a nation with himself being credible. Hmm, just maybe?
Report Post »TyrannyNoMore
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:48pmRobert666 likes to pose as a religious zealot here to try and stir trouble. Ignore him !
Report Post »rlmeals
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:52pmHey, Blaze, could you at least do us the courtesy of capitalizing “God” in the second paragraph? Thanks. We’d appreciate it.
Report Post »Winedude
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:20pmI thoroughly agree. I’m somewhere between atheistic and agnostic. Yet, when I have to write the word, out of respect for believers, I always capitalize “God.”
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:18pmWhat about those believers who feel that writing the name out at all is wrong?
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:44pmJefferson new the Bible had the finger prints of Antichrist all over it.
Report Post »TyrannyNoMore
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:50pmWhat kind of dope smoking moron are you ??
Report Post »jmcclena
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:41pmUgh, Barton has been roundly renounced by academia. His “history” is simply an agenda driven attack with the attempt to convince the American people that we are a “Christian Nation.” In fact we are a secular nation that has a rich history of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, etc. This guy needs to go away.
Report Post »momprayn
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:47pmAh, yes – “academia” — LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »jmcclena
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:56pmUgh, this country is in a sad, sad place when a large portion of the population (most of you Beckbots) think school is for snobs and the “liberal elites.”
Report Post »ed0315
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:56pmUgh, another stupid progressive response. Hey numb nuts, they are talking about the United States back during Jefferson, not now! And just because those groups now exist here does not mean the country as a whole adopts those principals! Do we adopt anything under Sharia Law? If so you better look for another country to live in!
Report Post »jmcclena
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:05pmEd, you are sadly, pathetically misinformed. Our founders drew inspiration from all sorts of places, the Koran included. As for Sharia, what you wingnuts always scream, there is no, nor will there ever be, any threat of Sharia being used as our criminal judicial system. On the other hand, our civil courts routinely take into account Sharia law, Jewish law, etc, when applicable (if the parties are Muslim, or Jewish say).
Report Post »Welcome Black Carter
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:51pm“renounced by academia”
Report Post »That would tend to give credibility to the man in the eyes of most here.
IDONTTHINKSO
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:01pm@jmcclena
Report Post »They have an ointment for that “academia,” it might help.
ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 11:09pmed0315
Here is another example of barton lying. If you visit the link you will here him in his own words spreading what he knows the be lies. Now why would a “Man of god” lie like that?
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/more-barton-falsehoods-mentions-god-were-not-banned-veterans-funerals
Report Post »TreeTrimmerJim
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 3:18amScienceisnotevil.. Perhaps this is the letter your referring to that supports what Barton said about limiting speech at government cemeteries.
http://poe.house.gov/UploadedFiles/11-06-29_Letter_to_Sec_Shinseki_re_Houston_VA_Cemetery_Director.pdf
As you can see Barton’s claim is accurate. Do you have other information?
Report Post »go2gym
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:35pmSaw this on GBTV tonight. Great segment. Really enjoy when Barton is on the show discussing history.
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:48pmIndeed.
Report Post »Winedude
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 10:45pmBarton is a total fraud. Don’t let it bother you or persuade you that he has been discredited by just about any and all other historians. He has an agenda and so does Rev. Glenn. But keep in mind:
“The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine.”
–George Washington
“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever
from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with
blood for centuries.¬”
–James Madison
“Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologie¬s.”
- Thomas Jefferson
“The Christian God is a being of terrific character — cruel, vindictive¬,
capricious¬, and unjust.”
– Thomas Jefferson
“In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.”
Report Post »- James Madison
TreeTrimmerJim
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 2:56amWineDude… Your quotes are cool.. fabricated but cool. Please provide dates and places with the quotes to prove your not pass BS off as fact.
George Washington, the Christian by William Jackson Johnstone, Merrian Park, St Paul, MN February 23, 1919…… The book references quotes that use 54 designations for God and then lists 26 more references that George Washington used but are not included in quotes used in this book.
Report Post »- There is a scanned and hyper-linked copy on the internet -
http://books.google.com/books?id=FhgFAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22William+Jackson+Johnstone%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pAs_T9XxPPPWiALcv9G_AQ&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=inauthor%3A%22William%20Jackson%20Johnstone%22&f=true
MrButcher
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:31pmBarton is an idiot.
Report Post »mike3481
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:38pmCheck your mirror.
Report Post »right-wing-waco
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:54pmAnd… you’re an expert? Please site your sources.
Report Post »dissentnow
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:11pmBarton has a history of attributing false quotes to the founding fathers to support his particular agenda.
Report Post »marjorie faye
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:24pmTo Dissentnow:
Report Post »Give examples of your assertion.
grayling646
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 9:37pmThey can’t back up their accusations. The imps and minions are scared to death of this guy.
Report Post »dissentnow
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 7:00am@MAJORIE
Report Post »In his book, “myth of separation, Barton claimed that George Washington said, “It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible’’. That quote has never been found in any of Washigton’s writings. In the same book, Barton also claimed that Thomas Jefferson said, “I have always said and always will say that the studious perusal of the Sacred Volume will make us better citizens”. Again, Jefferson never said that.
Those are just two examples. I can go on for days if you’d like.
Barton even admitted that he used what he called “unconfirmed quotations” about the founding fathers without any primary sources to back up those quotes. He said that the quotes were “completely consistent” with the views of the founding fathers. Attributing fake quotes to the founding fathers is not “Consistent” in any way. If you guys want to keep learning “history” from this fraud, go ahead.
dissentnow
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 7:12am@grayling
Report Post »this “imp” just gave you two examples. Do you want more?
Vladia
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 10:06amIf you’re going to attack the man, Dissent, you should at least use the whole truth, not just the parts you like. http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=126#background
Report Post »marjorie faye
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 1:21pmDissentnow,
Report Post »I am working from memory in what I say, because I have read up on this in the past but have not reviewed it recently. I have books here at home with a great deal of information about it, and would have to get those out to refresh my memory. However, what I recall is that Barton did make some errors in the past… just errors, not intentional deception… and that he corrected those on his website. Accusing him of intentional deception is mean-spirited and unnecessary, not to mention false. Why do you feel the need to do that? Next, the fact is, John Adams stated very definitely in a very clear quote that the form of government they created would not work with any kind of citizenry other than a religious, moral one. George Washington most assuredly believed in God, even to the extent that he believed that God spared his life in all kinds of deadly situations. He made numerous statements regarding his faith in God. And there are other quotes that back up this point, including by Jefferson who saw the value of a moral citizenry who believed in God. What he did not like, as opposed to pure Christianity as taught in the Bible. He also opposed govt. interference in religion, such as setting up a state religion. That is what he meant in the letter he wrote in which he promised to protect a Baptist group from interference by the govt., which is the actual meaning of his phrase re. a wall of separation between church and state. These facts are easy to verify.
dissentnow
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 5:00pm@Vladia
Report Post »So you defend David Barton by using HIS website as proof? Nice!
dissentnow
Posted on April 20, 2012 at 9:01pm@Majorie
Report Post »How do you know that they were “errors”? How do you know that they weren’t intentional? You don’t know the man. Using quotes without a primary source is, in fact, being dishonest.
Mark0331
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:23pmThis story has ITSJUSTTIM written all over it….cannot wait to see where he goes with this..if he doesn’t show up to comment, I will be sorely dissapointed…do not let us down Tim!!
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:46pmJust because you‘re a Pagan don’t blame me.
Report Post »Mark0331
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 8:52pm@Tim…I knew you wouldn’t let us down…thank you, predictable you, thank you!!
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