World

Does New Video Cast Doubt on Thermal Images From Occupy London?

New Video Claims to Prove London Thermal Images are Faulty

Earlier this week we posted thermal images taken by two British newspapers that seemed to show many Occupy tents in London were being abandoned at night. Both the Daily mail and the Telegraph published the photos (which were then picked up by ABC News) suggesting protesters may not be as dedicated as they seem. But now, a new video has surfaced on YouTube that could call those images into question.

A video posted by “thermalunderpants” claims to show protesters using the “exact” camera used by the media outlets. And it shows that the tents may be blocking the heat signature of the protesters who are in them. Here’s what the video says:

Following all the media hype (Telegraph, The Times, Daily Mail, Daily Express) about ‘empty tents’ at OccupyLSX we decided to check out whether their thermal imaging evidence was true.

We got hold of *exactly* the same thermal imaging camera and showed that – surprise, surprise – you can’t tell when people are in their tents.

So don’t believe the lies – come down to OccupyLSX and join the vibrant community of people working for a better world.

Here’s the video:

The British paper The Guardian, which mentioned the images earlier this week, posted a short story about a military scientist denying the camera’s findings:

Several newspapers have filmed tents outside St Paul’s Cathedral using thermal imaging equipment, producing images that seem to suggest many tents are unoccupied. But the military scientist, who asked not to be named, said on Wednesday that the photographers were not using the right camera settings, and consequently the information needed to draw any conclusions from the images had been lost.

A camera of this kind would very rarely be able to see “into” a tent, said the scientist, as tent materials are almost always opaque to thermal imaging. A photographer would only be able to detect internal activity if the tent fabric was itself re-radiating heat produced by a warm object behind it – and this in turn would only be possible if very specific camera settings were used.

He said: “They cannot make the assumption that they have made from those images. The way they are set up, you wouldn‘t be able to tell if there’s anyone in the tent or not, especially if someone is sleeping in an insulated sleeping bag.”

A separate report also cast doubts about the papers’ earlier claims that police had noted the same occupancy issues with their thermal imaging cameras (and noted the objections voiced by the protesters that we included in our original piece):

A local councillor quoted in the reports said he had been told about the thermal camera by a City of London officer on Monday, but admitted he had not been able to verify the “second-hand” information.

“I simply heard it from talking to an officer on the street,” said Matthew Richardson, councillor for the Coleman Street ward. “The summary was that they have got a helicopter with a thermal camera in and only 10% of the tents are occupied.”

Several of the protesters outside St Paul’s admitted they were not staying at the camp full-time, but they disputed the occupancy allegations.

“This 10% figure is bullshit,” said one camper, who did not wish to be named but said he was from Birmingham. “It’s closer to 70% occupancy. People who live locally are going to their homes to sleep, but the rest of us generally sleep in our tents.”

We can’t know if the video was taken using the same settings as the others, or confirm that it wasn’t doctored. And we should note that our search didn’t turn up any retractions or clarifications on the British papers that originally published the photos. But it’s still important to note the recent developments.

(H/T: Mediaite)

Comments (55)

1 2
  • megamind
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 6:45pm

    maybe these kids just pulled the old clown car trick………..or not! who cares they should all get dysentary and have to go home to their parents…….they do understand that their “revolution” will be short lived, if the government doesnt crush it as soon as the **** bags leave the city the rural populations will just shoot them………….silly kids, then the rich leftists will just wait for another generation of cannon farter…….

    Report Post »  
    • loriann12
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 8:46pm

      There’s an easy solution. Go around at night (the police) and check every tent. If no one is there, it’s abandoned and should be removed to the police storage. If they want it back, they can go get it. They do that with abandoned vehicles. the police are already there.

      Report Post »  
    • Lunar
      Posted on October 29, 2011 at 12:44am

      WAIT!!!!!!, I know my thermal imaging. The images are correct. Have that punk ass kid stay in the tent for 20 min or more HEATING it up with his warm breath. Of course anything beyond even a pane of glass stops direct transmission of infra-red. Your NOT seeing a warm body in the “gotcha” images. Your seeing a warm tent. Any occupancy of the tent for any length of time is gonna provide a significant difference in the surface temp of the canvas. The images show EXACTLY what the first story says, these tent camps are EMPTY.

      I mean cmon they have “unnamed military experts” backing there claims up ? Wake up Blaze.

      Report Post » Lunar  
  • South Philly Boy
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 6:17pm

    As USUAL… UNTRAINED media personel

    Report Post » South Philly Boy  
    • Salamander
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 6:53pm

      Yeah, they probably took the pictures while everybody was at dinner!

      Report Post »  
    • Chuck Stein
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 7:15pm

      Now I am wondering how ANY tents appeared to have people in them.

      Report Post »  
  • Desert Viking
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 6:02pm

    The device is showing that the batteries are dying… I’m supposed to believe that the device is still working within specification?

    Report Post »  
    • dukestreet
      Posted on October 30, 2011 at 1:43am

      I just find it interesting that before this became a media issue the tents appeared mostly empty. Now they have had the opportunity to arrange for people to hang around and stay in the tents for the “thermal op”. Once the new phtos are released they can go back to going home at night,cause how many times are the media going to bother with this ,really.

      Report Post »  
  • DSTSS2010
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 5:54pm

    Look at at those clowns coming out of that car…….er, I mean tent.

    Report Post » DSTSS2010  
  • allsounddj
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 5:22pm

    AS AN ITC (FLIR) CERTIFIED LEVEL II THEMOGRAPHER, I HAVE THE CORRECT VIEW OF THIS!
    1. An infrared camera CAN NOT see through objects like you see in movies! THEY CAN NOT SEE INSIDE HOUSES, OR TENTS. JUST THE HEAT RADIATING FROM THEM.
    2. IR Cameras use a color palette. This uses color to show the difference in temperature only, so in the picture with the tent that is glowing hot, they may have had a heater inside. This in NO WAY proves that there were not people in the other tents, just that some tents were hotter than others. This could be from more bodies inside, or heaters, etc. These temps could only be varied as much as 5 degrees, but the color would make them look much hotter, thats why the color palette is only a reference, not a temperature!
    3. On the other side, if the teens would have stayed in the tent longer, you would see the temp rise in the tent over time.
    4. GET A FREAKING JOB PEOPLE AND STOP YOUR WHINING ABOUT NOT HAVING MONEY AND THINKING THAT EVERYONE SHOULD PAY YOU FOR DOING NOTHING! I DO NOT SUPPORT WHAT YOU ARE DOING, AND I HAVE WORKED HARD TO GET WHERE I AM AT AND EARNED MY MONEY. I GOT LAID OFF 2 YEARS AGO, AND I WENT AND FOUND ANOTHER JOB. MAYBE YOU SHOULD SPEND YOUR TIME UPDATING YOUR RESUME, OR GOING BACK TO SCHOOL INSTEAD OF SITTING AROUND IN A PARK AND EXPECTING EVERYONE ELSE IS GOING TO GIVE YOU THEIR MONEY!!!!!! YOUR RETARDED LEADER, OBAMA IS GETTING BOOTED IN 2012, SO THEN WHAT ARE YOU WHINERS GOING TO DO?

    Report Post »  
    • 8jrts
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 6:26pm

      allsounddj
      Thanks for the info on imaging…I don’t know anything about it. Also in regards to #4…Bravo!!! Well said!!!

      Report Post » 8jrts  
    • Salamander
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 6:55pm

      Hey, if you want to make it look like a lot is going on in your tent, eat a lot of beans, pull the flaps down, vent a little, or a whole lot, and enjoy your ‘Dutch Oven’ with a friend! Unlike that cute little Daniel pup, your friends will probably head for the exits, gasping at your expression!

      Report Post »  
  • whatthecrazy
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 5:19pm

    I wish these people would go away and act like decent citizens but that probably wont happen till it gets cold then they will be back like roaches……………………

    Report Post »  
  • Stone Cold Truth
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 5:17pm

    Someone recreate this and youtube it already.

    Report Post » Stone Cold Truth  
  • bigfatslob
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 5:11pm

    Leftist propoganda trickery, I say !

    Report Post » bigfatslob  
  • TripleG
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 5:10pm

    Here’s a thought… use the thermal to find out what tents are empty, then go through and confiscate them. If anyone comes back to claim their tent fine them for littering :)

    Report Post »  
  • Tiny280
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 5:00pm

    What complete nonsense. Thermal imaging does not “see through” the tent fabric; it only detects differences in surface temperature radiating from the tent. Therefore, the fabric must be warmed jsut a bit for any contrast to become apparent. Had these disembling tools STAYED inside their tents for more than just a few seconds, it would have lit up like a Christmas Tree as their body heat warmed the air inside the tent and, in just a minute or two, the tent fabric. Of course, those tools damn-well know that, which is why they popped in and out of the tents as quickly as possible.

    Now let’s see if the ever-credulous legacy media gives this counter-factual rebuttal any air at all. If they do, and they care at all to repair what is left of their tattered reputations, the story will be about the willful deceit – or unintentional buffoonery – exhibited by those tools.

    Report Post »  
  • phillipwgirard
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 5:00pm

    why are they looking for heat signatures anyway, it‘s a little too high tech for a protest don’t you think?

    Report Post » phillipwgirard  
  • phillipwgirard
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:56pm

    it’s a bit obscene

    Report Post » phillipwgirard  
  • rdk
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:38pm

    It would be better, if they went home and cleaned up and slept and then came back to disrupt activities of honest, hardworking people.

    Report Post »  
  • JuliePatron
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:36pm

    RiotPlanner.com says they are all cold-hearted bastards, that‘s why they didn’t show up.

    Report Post » JuliePatron  
  • vonMises
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:23pm

    And any thermal imaging photograph taken now will show all the tents full of all the protesters who have come scampering back as fast as their sandal-clad feet can carry them. ROFL!

    Report Post »  
    • Jaycen
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:33pm

      Was it just me, or did the tent in the second “trial” begin to lighten up after a few seconds?

      Could it be that a cold tent blocks the heat signature inside when someone initially enters, but then begins to pass that heat as the tent warms up?

      In the original pictures, it was clear that some heat signatures were inside tents. Notice how quickly our scientifically minded camera testers enter and exit the tent.

      Let’s see a video of someone stepping inside a cold tent and spending more than 120 seconds inside. Then I’ll buy it.

      Report Post » Jaycen  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:34pm

      How true.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
  • Rowgue
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:23pm

    All you needed to read was that the scientist didn’t want to identify himself. That’s code for fake source. There is nothing about a tent that makes it resistant to thermal imaging.

    Sure a tent will mask the heat signature of a person right when they enter it, but within a few minutes either the entire tent would heat up enough to register as a significant heat source or you would see the heat escaping the tent.

    Report Post »  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:26pm

      Precisely. Thermal imaging works on houses for goodness sake, which are highly insulated (well, better than tents anyway). Most houses light up they have so much heat escaping. A tent, normal ol Walmart tent, somehow doesn’t?

      This not only doesn’t pass the smell test, it looks like a pure deliberate lie by some smarmy freshman thinking he’s smarter than then the rest of the world and sniggering up his sleeve. What an idiot.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • ApokTheGreat
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 5:18pm

      Not only that but the camera registers radiation differences. So if you had one occupied tent sitting next to an empty tent, the difference between the two would really show up, even if the difference was minor.
      The fact the camera did pick up occupied tents tells the whole story.

      AND WHERE DID THEY GET THE MONEY FOR THE THERMAL CAMERA??? Last I checked thermal cameras and night vision equipment costs a few hundred dollars for the old tech and up to $10,000 for the new generation. And this group of bums and jobless hippies just went out and bought a thermal camera just like the professionals have on a whim?
      It kinda smells of Spaghetti Bolognaise around this entire movement…Speaking of Bolognaise..
      It seems these morons love communism and socialism until they have to live it. A few days ago the OWS morons were complaining about not getting a big enough slice of the $500K pie and recently now they are complaining about having to work to feed the moochers… This is why Marxism always fails everywhere it has been tried.
      Then they have the cajones to tell us we need more welfare programs??? What did Jesus say about hypocrites?

      Report Post » ApokTheGreat  
  • AnAmerican111
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:20pm

    Who cares! Just more garbage in the street that needs to be disposed of

    Report Post »  
  • Kilroy1
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:14pm

    Notice even in this so called “proof” that the instant the person enters the tent they seem to be invisible, but just a few seconds later you can start to see a heat signature form. They are entering a very cold tent and thus disappear. As pointed out above, as they quickly warm the air around them the thermal image starts to take shape.

    Even a warm bundle inside a sleeping bag would leave an image, though not detailed. As also stated above, it doesn’t explain the tents it can see the signature.

    Report Post »  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:40pm

      What’s funny to me is that this has probably already been debated, debunked and dismissed across the interwebs. By doing this stunt, these dweeb hippies have actually removed what little credibility their movement had left. How painfully, tragically self defeating a move!

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
  • UlyssesP
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:14pm

    I don’t care if they are there all night or leave. They are still worthless commie tools.

    Report Post » UlyssesP  
  • stloocardsfan
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:11pm

    ‘ come down to OccupyLSX and join the vibrant community of people working for a better world.’

    HAHAHA…working???? They think squatting in public spaces is work?????

    Report Post » stloocardsfan  
  • rickbob
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:09pm

    These cameras don’t see “inside of tents. They only indicate thermal activity in the tent. I wonder how long the British rags had their thermal cameras on the tents. The“occupiers” didn’t prove anything. . .

    Report Post » rickbob  
  • GhostOfJefferson
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:06pm

    Just some quick research. To block heat from dissipating out to the open air, you need a significant amount of insulation. Not huge, but some at least, but that’s only good until the heat leaks through the insulation, which it will over time (even if you insulate with a vacuum). You can also have mirrored type materials (survival heat blankets, for example) reflecting the heat back to its source, and that only works if the entire subject if fully covered. Third would be glass.

    Are these glass tents, with heat blanket reflectors, that are well insulated? My tents are normal tent material and seem to let cold in (and thus, heat out) with ease.

    I think we’re looking at more leftist lies here. Maybe I’m missing something though, if so, I’m always open to correction.

    Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • Ruler4You
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:11pm

      Right. That’s real commitment. The same kind that you are complaining about, if I’m on my mark.

      Report Post » Ruler4You  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:16pm

      To expand on that idea a bit, if tents didn’t let heat escape in any capacity, which would have to happen to escape detection from a heat gun, the act of zipping up your tent for the night would be nearly suicidal. You’d be putting yourself in a place with no air flow (air flow would carry warm air out, and you’d register on the thermal gun), with super high insulative qualities, and airtight zippers/snaps (again, how good of an insulator are zippers on mesh again?). Am I missing something here? Is there some law of thermodynamics or fluid mechanics I wasn’t taught or have forgotten?

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:17pm

      I’m not certain I understand your comment.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
  • Texasczech63
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:05pm

    How long are they in the tents? The body heat takes 20 minutes to register ……nice try hippies.

    Report Post » Texasczech63  
  • SteelyEyedMissleMan
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:00pm

    There can be some trickery here as well. The longer someone is in the tent, the hotter it will get… showing that there is actually someone there. Also, the last bit with multiple people… the camera angle didn’t show the other side of the tent. It could be that people were entering off camera and coming back out on camera.

    Again, the longer someone is in the tent the hotter it will become. I think the original story is more correct.

    Report Post »  
    • Chrisknits
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 5:21pm

      Having just spent the weekend in a tent a few weeks ago, I echo the comment about the people exiting the tent. We have a 6 person tent that is 3x the size of the tent shown. Even with all the room we have in our tent, a similar exodus would be impossible. We would have to be lined up behind each other, from one side of the tent to the other. Our tent is tall enough to stand upright, the tent shown is not. So each person had to be crouched on the ground, ready to crawl out. There is no way this tent has enough length to be crouched 6 deep.
      It is difficult to exit out of a tent, even with an opening that is taller than the one shown.
      I don’t find the exodus believable, but can’t prove there is a separate entrance to the tent, since we aren’t shown the opposite end.

      Report Post »  
  • GhostOfJefferson
    Posted on October 28, 2011 at 3:59pm

    Interesting. So why were there tents with clear thermal markers indicating a person, long or “sitting” blobs of light in about the same size and general shape as a person? I can buy that a given camera cannot see inside a tent, or that it can see inside a tent. What I don’t buy is that It Can and Cannot see inside a tent.

    Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
1 2

Sign In To Post Comments! Sign In

Sign Up For Our Newsletter!

Glenn Beck Radio

Listen to Glenn Beck 24/7 Listen Now
Restoring Love