Faith

Does the United Methodist Church Really Support Saturday‘s ’One Nation’ March?

The e-mails hit my inbox today almost as soon as Glenn started talking about the 10/2 rally this weekend and my story detailing who had joined on as supporters. The organization most were concerned about was the United Methodist Church (UMC). How could the UMC fall into the same category as the Democratic Socialists and support this Saturday’s “One Nation Working Together” march? Could this be true?

Heeding Glenn’s advice (“question with boldness”), some of you even contacted your local Methodist Bishop and denomination headquarters to see if the UMC had in fact officially endorsed Saturday’s rally. The answers you received, and forwarded to me, were mixed: some said “no,” while others were unsure. We take such claims seriously, so I began a little investigation.

Let me take you on a journey.

I first read the following statement last night while checking the New York Times for any news that might be important to you. The statement was couched in an article on this weekend’s progressive 10/2 march:

“the march is co-sponsored by the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ, the National Baptist Convention and several Jewish organizations.”

In the article, author Steve Greenberg makes the statement after speaking with a representative from the UMC (and after quoting a Methodist Reverend later in the story). I decided to check with the author about his story, and he was gracious enough to exchange multiple e-mails and several phone calls with me. Here is how he explains his story:

I was originally told by a p.r. person for the Oct. 2 march that the United Church of Christ, National Baptist Convention and United Methodist Church were backing the march. And I thought it would be interesting to speak with an official from the UMC about why they were backing the march because it seemed somewhat surprising that the Methodists would because they are not perceived to be as liberal as the United Church of Christ or the National Baptist Convention.

I had a good interview with someone from the United Methodist Church who told me that the church’s General Board of Church and Society “had signed on as a partner.” Because I wasn’t very familiar with the inner workings of the Methodist church, I called back the next day just to double-check whether the endorsement by that general board meant that I could write that the overall United Methodist Church had endorsed the Oct. 2 march. And this official said, yes, it would be accurate for me to write that.

Evidently I was misinformed. Today Diane Degnan, a spokeswoman for the UMC, told me that one can only say that the UMC endorses something once the UMC’s general conference has endorsed it. And here evidently the General Conference hasn’t taken a position on the march, just the General Board of Church and Society has, with its endorsement.

That’s interesting. And technical. So I called the church’s headquarters and left a message with Rev. Stapleton, who was quoted in the Times piece as being a spokesperson and who had been quoted saying some things that could be considered supporting the march. I never received a response.

I then called the public relations person listed on the UMC’s website, Diane Degnan, whom Greenberg references in his message to me. After an initial conversation promising she would do some digging, she called back and explained that, after speaking with several people, the UMC as a whole does not support the rally. Rather, “the General Board of Church and Society — which is the special advocacy agency of the United Methodist Church — endorses the principles of the event, but they are not a co-sponsor of the event.” She added that as an agency and arm of the Church, the General Board of Church and Society does not speak for the entire denomination: “they only speak for their own agency.”

I was still confused. I will admit I am not a Methodist, so the distinction to me seemed elementary. I called back and was passed along to Wayne Rhodes, director of communications for the General Board of Church and Society. Admittedly, Rhodes had to give me a lesson in the Methodist denomination — and he was patient and thorough in his explanation.

He explained that the Methodist Church does not have one single leader, but rather four general agencies and “12 or 13” general commissions spread out across the country. A single agency or commission cannot speak for the entire denomination — only a once-every-four-year General Conference can do that. “And certainly [the General Conference] didn‘t adopt any resolution related to the ’One Nation World March’ [sic],” Rhodes said. So, he added, it would be “impossible” for Rev. Stapleton to speak on behalf of the entire Methodist Church.

Fair enough. But even if the Church as a whole isn’t endorsing the march, why does the General Board of Church and Society think it’s okay to do so? According to Rhodes, the General Conference has ordered the Board “to support activities and to promote things that are consistent with” the denomination’s principles. And since the march’s core principles “are very consistent” with the denomination’s positions on issues such as jobs, education, and work, the Board endorsed the march and has no problem doing so.

In fact, Rhodes said, the General Board of Church and Society went as far as telling fellow United Methodists to attend the rally in its e-newsletter, “Faith in Action.“ ”We encouraged [United Methodists] to come to the march,” Rhodes said, “because [it] is consistent with our principles.” Rhodes directed me to the website where I could find this newsletter. The endorsement can be seen here, and the exact language states:

The United Methodist General Board of Church & Society endorses a march on Saturday, Oct. 2, to demonstrate re-commitment to change in the United States. … While GBCS has not been involved in planning the march or supporting it financially, GBCS encourages United Methodists to participate in the One Nation march because of its four core principles. [Emphasis added.]

Does the United Methodist Church Really Support Saturdays One Nation March?

That is slightly different than what I was told today by Diane Degnan. The above statement, in its entirety, says the Board is endorsing the event because of its principles, not just the principles themselves. In an email to me, Degnan highlighted the distinction:

The United Methodist Church is not sponsoring the rally in Washington, D.C. The General Board of Church and Society endorses the principles of this event; however, they are not a co-sponsor. They had no planning role and provided no financial support. While the General Board of Church and Society is an agency of the church, they do not speak for the denomination as a whole. [Emphasis added.]

An e-mail to Degnan seeking comment regarding the discrepancy was not returned in time for publication.

Interesting. But I digress.

So was the Board worried about being lumped in with some of the others that are endorsing the event, such as the Democratic Socialists? No. According to Rhodes, the gentleman who made the decision to encourage attendance did so “because many of the people we work in coalition with, who are involved in poverty ministries, are involved with this march.” What are those organizations? Among those Rhodes mentioned are Jubilee USA, Pax Christi (a Roman Catholic organization), and Sojourners (Jim Wallis’s organization). “These are very legitimate organizations,” he said, and “if they’re comfortable with it, I think we’re fairly comfortable with it.”

I then asked one final question: if the Board is easily confused with the entire Methodist Church, and since Rhodes cannot explain the inner workings of the denomination to everyone, why endorse such an event at all? Those inside the church will understand the distinction, he said. And even though “people outside of the church are going to be confused, there’s no ifs, ands, or buts, about that,” he’s not too worried about people making the wrong assumption at the rally because “we’re not even one of the major sponsors.”

The entire issue, he explained, stems from Greenberg’s confusion: “Amy Stapleton is not a spokesperson for the United Methodist Church. No one is a spokesperson for the United Methodist Church.” Rather, Rev. Stapleton was making a personal statement when she was talking about the event, and he added that Stapleton doesn’t even work for the Board, but rather for one of the “12 or 13” commissions mentioned above — specifically the General Commission on Religion and Race, which reports directly to the General Council. That, however, does not mean that the Board does not still support the march. It does.

And now the story has come full circle. This evening, Greenberg and the Times have issued a clarification (attached to the bottom of the original article):

An article on Monday about a coalition of liberal groups planning a rally in  Washington on Saturday, using information provided by a high-level minister for the United Methodist Church, referred incorrectly to the church’s role in the event. A board within the United Methodist Church has endorsed the principles of the rally, but the overall church has not endorsed the rally. Also, after the article was published, the church’s director of communications said that the minister, the Rev. Amy Stapleton, was not speaking on behalf of the church.

In all, that’s a lot to digest. So let’s recap:

  1. Amy Stapleton is not a spokesperson for the United Methodist Church — no one is.
  2. The General Board of Church and Society has endorsed the march and its principles, not the United Methodist Church as a whole.
  3. Diane Degnan went out of her way to point out that the Board only supports the march’s principles — yet the endorsement given in the Board’s e-newsletter says that the Board “endorses” the march and encourages participation “because” of the march’s principles; it doesn’t only support the principles themselves.
  4. The Times issued a clarification, and the author was either misinformed, misunderstood the church’s way of governance, or made an unfair conclusion.
  5. The rally’s core principles and the core principles of the UMC are aligned.
  6. The General Board of Church and Society is not concerned about the others who are supporting the rally.
  7. I am not a Methodist and needed this explained to me several times.

Clear? I hope so. Keep questioning with boldness.

Comments (308)

1 2 3 ... 9
  • autofixer
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:32pm

    This sounds all too familiar. It is like the the 1850′s again. The Methodists’ refused to take a position on slavery. As a result, the abolitionist Wesleyan church was formed in the South. Maybe the church is looking to split again?

    Report Post »  
  • PeachyinGA
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:31pm

    Thank you for the clarification of the original article. I am a member of a UMC and I have to admit I was quite alarmed to see in the first article that UMC claimed to back the Oct 2 rally ~ which I would never personally endorse. I feel slightly better after reading your informative article, but still plan to contact the pastor of my church to make sure our church has not aligned itself with these socialists.

    Report Post » PeachyinGA  
    • DWinMadison
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:21pm

      Hi peachy. I respectfully think you are fooling yourself. If young to http://www.umc.org and do a site search for “one nation working together” it will link you directly to the part of the UMC website that expressly endorses this rally on behalf of the United Methodist Church. Short of the pastor wearing a MAO suit, what else do you need? Surely you knew that reclaiming America would eventually require you to take a stand. Time to count the cost.

      Report Post » DWinMadison  
  • GunGraveR
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:31pm

    Add your comments

    Report Post »  
  • needanotherReagan
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:30pm

    One nation working together sounds suspiciously similar to workers of the world unite. Whether or not the UMC supports the hatefest depends on who’s asking. For any reputable religious organization to have any association with this is disgusting.

    Report Post »  
    • IKW
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:37am

      I see this as a gathering of the priests of Baal, from Judges…go check out what King Joash did, it didn’t end well for them. ;-) BTW, I’m not suggesting doing anything to them as justice only comes from God. Leave them to their own devices and they will receive that which their deeds have earned.

      IKW

      Report Post » IKW  
  • bobmontgomery
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:30pm

    This may sound paranoid, conspiratorial,what have you, but…they went first into the unions for the money, then into the schools for the minds, then into the bureaucracies for the framework, then into environmentalism for the platform, then into the churches for the souls. The churches are the final frontier. You now have ‘Christian’ denominations saying “Let’s not offend anybody with our Christmas and Easter celebrations.”

    Report Post »  
    • jake_hm
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 5:31am

      you practically summed it up, and doubts anyone would find it less crazy or paranoid then you think.

      Report Post »  
  • Jerry.n.Kzoo
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:30pm

    I went to my in-laws UMC this weekend and it was said. The church is dying and everyone agrees that all they need to do is align themselves with the social issues in the world.

    I keep telling them to get off the boat, but they just say they will ride it out. UGH!!!

    Report Post »  
    • jake_hm
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 5:28am

      well i supposed you can‘t save people who don’t want to be saved. it’s sad that churches in the United States are becoming indoctrinated by progressives.

      Report Post »  
    • IKW
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:31am

      Revelations 22:
      10Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”

      12″Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

      I’m not an apocalypt by any means, but I do read the words and do my best to live by them.
      IKW

      Report Post » IKW  
    • cj51
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:13pm

      HI Jerry, I understand where your family is coming from, I am entrenched in my church on a lot of committees teach sunday school, It floors me to see this happening …but to tell you the truth It is hard to reconcile what the gbcs is doing with my Church. .I am in prayer about what to do. Also another thing that I think is even worse then this is how they are backing the Palestinians over Isreal.

      Report Post »  
    • FLConservative
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:48pm

      This is part of prophesy. The apostate church at the time of the end. Churches that preach what “their itching ears want to hear”. It is very difficult to find a Bible believing church that is not inserting their own philosophy.

      Report Post »  
  • inferno
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:29pm

    Any organization that is associated with the National Council of churches, is Marxist. Most organized religious institutions are affiliated with that organization. Almost everyone subscribes to liberation theology.

    Report Post »  
    • firstHat
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:47pm

      yes, yes, and yes. It just makes me so sad!

      Report Post »  
    • Sense and Sensibility
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:35am

      Inferno -
      Do you have proof of this? Can you provide primary sources with this information please?

      Report Post »  
    • donbcg
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:40am

      Sense-

      Go to their website. If you hover over the tabs to the one labeled “Inside…” You will see the trash they promote. Don’t even need to click a link. “Living Wage” “Eco-Justice“ ”Justice for Women”. These are all the items Liberation Theology aspouses. I suggest you read this. Very, very disturbing given some of the large scale followings by large scale churches.

      It’s not religion is Ideology. False God‘s are a sure fire way to meet God’s wrath.

      Report Post » donbcg  
    • Spookytruck
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:23pm

      When the UMC came out in favor of abortion, how many questioned it’s departure from sound Biblical doctrine? When my pastor starts teaching anything other than the truth of scripture, it’s time to move on. Jeremiah 1:5 says: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you.” So if G-d knew you before He formed you in the womb; you must be a living person in the mind of G-d. Taking the life of the most innocent ones known by G-d can only be understood as murder in the mind of G-d. How do these liberal churches miss that? They miss it because they no longer believe the truth, but they believe lies and the father of lies. I would ask God’s forgiveness for my blindness and ask Him to open my eyes to the truth and then run as fast as my legs would carry me away from these false churches.

      Report Post » Spookytruck  
  • Autonomous_System
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:28pm

    I am glad I left the Methodist Church….years ago….

    Report Post »  
    • mugger1940
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:32am

      I have belonged to the UMC for over 60 years,but I am withdrawing my membership today.The churches should not play in politics.

      Report Post » mugger1940  
  • GunGraveR
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:28pm

    I am a member of a United Methodist Church and attend every Sunday, as well as manage the website….I haven’t heard one thing about this march at the local level.
    For what it’s worth—we have extremely liberal folks in the congregation….I guess they could have some of the same in the upper ranks of the church administration.

    Report Post »  
    • Buck Bagaw
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:44pm

      Not could have, Do Have! Wake up and smell the casserole.

      Report Post »  
    • TimEarl
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:41pm

      I also am a long time member of the UMC and was surprised to see this item appear. I am appalled at the notion that I have helped fund an organization that would align itself with the likes of the NAACP, the American Federation of Teachers, Al Sharpton’s National Action Network, the SEIU, Jim Wallis’s Sojourners, the AFL-CIO, Communist Party USA, and the Democratic Socialists of America. THE COMMUNIST PARTY USA!? Thinking this cannot be true I went to the UMC website and there it was, a statement for all to see on the “MethoPedia” page, “We believe all economic and political systems are ultimately under the rule of God. The role of government is to protect freedom and guarantee the rights of people to adequate food, clothing and education. The world’s wealth should be shared equitably so that no person is in economic distress.”

      Social Justice it its truest form and definition. Unreal. My tenure as a United Methodist may be reaching its end. Serious soul searching needed.

      Report Post »  
    • DWinMadison
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:11pm

      Gungraver, I fount it pretty easy. Simply go to http://www.umc.org an search the site for “one nation working together”. It doesn’t get much easier than that.

      Report Post » DWinMadison  
  • DonoRomantico
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:26pm

    Now this is a church I would definitely avoid. Very nice of the church to pervert the English language with it’s double speak.

    Report Post »  
  • flagbearer
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:24pm

    Why I’m no longer a Methodist–never know where my money ends up.

    Report Post »  
  • rflaaskog
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:19pm

    When it didn’t produce the fig Jesus wilted the tree.

    Report Post »  
  • grnhrn
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:17pm

    Well christ did say to minister where needed. To bad they couldn’t just stand up and state that. I hope they send members who are strong in their faith because they will be surrounded by those that are masters of manipulation.

    Report Post »  
  • Mermaz
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:17pm

    Well, CJ Hawking is a UMC minister & I’ll bet she supports the march.

    Report Post »  
  • timeout
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:17pm

    i think this is pretty clear. it appears to me that the umc as a whole has protected itself in the convuluted structure. however, it is very clear that the umc as a whole is aligned with the likes of those mentioned in the article, therefore indirectly supporting the entire agenda of the march.

    as for me, and mine, i will make sure that those who are in the power structure of whatever religious organization i find myself under believe the same way i do. i will not support any organization, no matter what the demonimation that is not preaching and teaching the inspired Word of the Living God.

    Report Post »  
    • beekeeper
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:30pm

      I grew up in the Methodist church, and I graduated from a Methodist Preparatory school. Having said that, the only thing I really knew about “The Church” was that 1) Then ministers could marry, 2) Alcohol was not permitted on my high school campus, and 3) We Methodists weren’t as strict as the Episcopalians.

      Well, I know the first two for sure – that last one was more of a “gut instinct.”

      Report Post » beekeeper  
    • terv77
      Posted on September 29, 2010 at 1:57am

      umc isn’t the only church that will still have some people in the pulpits the Sunday after the rapture.

      Report Post »  
  • ILFarmer
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:12pm

    wow. that’s um… complicated and confusing. Not being Methodist, I only hope those that are do understand it well enough to make their informed decision.

    Report Post »  
    • cj51
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:09pm

      HI I am a Methodist and have been involved in the church for 20 years and have just recently found out about the liberal views of the general board of church and society. This is not the only liberal stance that they are takeing. I think any one who is a Methodist should go to there web page and see everything that they stand for. They backed the health care bill, they are for amnesty, the gbcs is located in Washington and is very involved in politics. It is very distressing.

      Report Post »  
    • Buck Bagaw
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:40pm

      CJ51, You are spot on but did not go far enough, the UMC is also very anti second amendment, supports and embraces any and all “alternative” lifestyles, and has stocked it’s clergy with flaming liberals. This being said, I know some (mostly older) Methodists and a couple of ministers with a conservative bent. These folks are a lot like older democrats who are in denial of the corruption of their beliefs.

      Report Post »  
    • ForMyKidsVA
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:49pm

      I have been a UM member for my entire forty years. I have served on church council, trustees, finance and other boards. I understand the workings of the church very well and I can say that the church does seem to align itself with the progressive agenda. They can doublespeak it all they want but it doesn’t change the facts.

      I am truly embarrassed by the Rev. Amy Stapleton, the Rev. C.J. Hawking and the Rev. Dr. Eugene Winkler, The latter two were the ones at the Beck/Breitbart Chicago event.

      The UMC has a website, http://www.umc.org, that has a blog entry entitled “Christians and the Political Process” on it. It is by Debra Dean Murphy. The comments to her blog strongly indicate that we the members of the UMC do not support the actions of the above “ministers”.

      This whole sad affair is making me reconsider my family’s membership in the UMC.

      Report Post »  
    • trueblueday
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:12am

      I agree FORMYKIDSVA
      Actually was going to respond at the UMC website, but decided not to. How they could even have minimal ties to this upcoming event on 10/2 is hard for me to fathom. For the UMC to stand with communist, socialist progressives is not what I had in mind when we joined our church. It’s time for my family to reconsider our faith.

      Report Post »  
    • IKW
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 11:08am

      cj51, their building is right across the street from the Supreme Court. At the top of the building of the Supreme Court it says, EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER LAW, and on 828, when I walked by, the marquee on the United Methodist Building said, “SOCIAL JUSTICE AND EVANGELISM ARE UNITED HERE!”

      I was so blown back by the contrast that I even took a little video showing both. I tried to send it to Jonathon but the file was too big.

      IKW

      Report Post » IKW  
    • staythecourse
      Posted on September 29, 2010 at 12:47am

      IKW… I saw that sign in DC too. I was really surprised by it. I was surprised not only by its content, but most especially because of its tone as an obvious response to the 8.28 rally… a rally they obviously didn’t attend nor did they understand.

      Report Post »  
  • Silversmith
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:11pm

    yeah, smoke, mirrors, a couple of people shooting their mouth off and hoping to go unnoticed, not a big endorsement

    Silversmith

    Report Post » Silversmith  
  • aesaac
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:10pm

    maybe it’ll rain

    Report Post »  
  • poverty.sucks
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:10pm

    Question with Boldness 101

    Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • TruthDarts
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:27am

      Now, now, let us not be asking God to rain pigeon pooh down on their heads.

      I would rather have them be comfortable enough in their numbers that their seething vitriol is clear to see and hear…hour after hour.

      Let them adorn themselves in their chosen hate-filled & name-calling words describing Tea Partiers or Constitutionalists or Libertarians, etc…
      (what I call the: N.S.S.A.M. or NOT-SO-SILENT-ANYMORE-MAJORITY)

      The BACK LASH of voter turnout by N.S.S.A.M. will hopefully bury all the illegal ballots
      turned in by the plethora of liberal/socialist/freedom & Capitalism-hating
      CHEATER-CHEATINGTONS in America !!!!!!!!!!!!!!&!

      Report Post » TruthDarts  
  • Mousey
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:09pm

    geeez it’s so much easier with a pope :¬)

    Report Post » Mousey  
    • carol m
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:20pm

      I agree.

      Report Post »  
    • firstHat
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:46pm

      Is it really? Did you catch this bit?
      “‘because many of the people we work in coalition with, who are involved in poverty ministries, are involved with this march.’ What are those organizations? Among those Rhodes mentioned are … Pax Christi (a Roman Catholic organization), and Sojourners (Jim Wallis’s organization).”

      I’m not pointing fingers. My own Episcopal church is so RED it would make these others look pale if it stood too close to them.

      Report Post »  
    • Sicboy
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:37am

      He was kidding, Jesus doesn’t need a “Pope”. Just ask Peter.

      Report Post » Sicboy  
  • beekeeper
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:09pm

    A chalk board would have really helped me understand all this, Jonathon ;^)

    Report Post » beekeeper  
    • Sicboy
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:35am

      I hope your kidding about the chalk board. You don’t need special “seer spectacles” to understand the TRUTH.

      Report Post » Sicboy  
    • underdawg
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:27pm

      I needed a hunting dog and a ouija board.

      Report Post » underdawg  
  • Psychosis
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:08pm

    LOL tail wagging the dog well if this isnt a litany of backtracking and trying to cover your real associations and beliefs i dont know what is

    Report Post » Psychosis  
    • CatB
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:44pm

      I left the UMC quite a while ago … it was becoming clear that they were taking a socialist lean …I think that they are now back-tracking … since it is coming to “light” .

      Report Post »  
    • JohnStenberg
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:12pm

      @Catb, I grew up in the Methodist church as my father was a Methodist Preacher in the NW Texas Conference for almost 30 years. He constantly got moved from church to church because he refused to leave certain doctrines of the bible out. The people were too uncomfortable with those issues.
      The UMC (the upper echalons) have for years been heading farther and farther more in a Liberal/Progressive tilt. I saw one of their commercials back during the 08′ elections and nearly fell out of my chair because of the in your face socialist bent of the message.
      As the article above mentions the individual churches are much different than the governing body at the top, and most probably do not agree with their endorsement (at least in this area of the country).
      And last, food for thought. I was recently told that at the last world wide General Conference they attempted (again) to legalize homosexual marriage within the church. What stopped it? The African Bishops who hold true to biblical teaching. God Bless Africa.

      Report Post » JohnStenberg  
    • SunnyJ
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:52pm

      I remained a member but refused to let my donations be sent to the central church, as it was becoming very clear nearly 10 years ago where this was going. The fact that the UMC is attempting to hide it‘s agenda with this circlular explanation but ends up with a direct connection to Jim Wallis’s Marxist/Socialist group is the real story. It’s not about this march. It’s about all the heartlanders that donate every week at their little local church and are required to send in their “apportionments” every year (our little rural church really struggles to make that payment…it’s several hundred per member) to support the hidden agendas of central committee’s like this. They may only be verbally supporting this march, but they’ve been using the money of many hard working patriots to finance their socialist/marxist schemes. All in the name of social justice per their definition, not the parishoners. Mark my words, this is going to put the UMC out of business. People will leave in droves when they realize where their money has been going. I will only donate to individual families, food pantries, etc. locally. Or to individual candidates etc. This is why we need to take back our schools, our elections, our churches, needs to be at home.

      Report Post »  
    • HoosierMo
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:34am

      My husband and I are in the same spot as sunnyj…we have remained members of our fairly conservative local United Methodist Church, and hate to see our donations going to the liberal national organization. He and I are becoming more aligned with the “Good News” movement within the UMC. This group is “a ministry for United Methodist renewal”, and attempts to counteract the leftest tendencies of the national hierarchy. Hopefully, more and more United Methodists will hear about this movement and support its objectives and ministry.

       
  • BQI
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:05pm

    It all depends on what the word “is” is. This is what happens when you align yourself with organizations not governed or directed by morals and values and then bending your morals in order to seek political correctness. .

    Black Conservative Blog; http://www.blackquillandink.com

    Report Post » BQI  
    • George1
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:05am

      I am in complete agreement with you. When your morals aren’t determined by a sacred text that determines that absolute truth of the world, you yourself determine your values and morals. Not only do YOU determine them, the rest of the world (even those not of your faith) determine them for you.

      Report Post »  
    • AzDebi
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:47am

      Ditto!

      Report Post » AzDebi  
    • IKW
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:53am

      Rationalize, rational lies, ration the lies…

      IKW

      Report Post » IKW  
  • LastManStanding1
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:04pm

    Oh My, I’m glad you have got that straight!

    Report Post » LastManStanding1  
    • TruthDarts
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:06am

      I think my head hurts…yes, no, maybe, well, yes, now I am sure it may hurt.

      Report Post » TruthDarts  
    • IKW
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:51am

      HAHAHAHAHA!!! Me too! …maybe ?

      IKW

      Report Post » IKW  
    • JehovahJireh1
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:55pm

      Who is the master of lies? Only one answer on that, it be Satan, Lucifer or what ever he wants to call himself ( Obama,maybe) First and foremost only God is to be Reverned, not a bunch of so called reverns who pretend to serve God! They are the Pharisees and Sadduches God tells us about in his word. They are not of our brother Judah but are of the synagogue of Satan. DC is the largest Satan worshippers what better place for the cult to gather. God’s eyes are upon them and he hears the cries of his true righteous children crying out and I pray that his stiffknecked children come to Repentance and come back in his good graces. Forgive the morons they know what they do! MAY HIS MERCY ENDURETH FOREVER. AND EVER!! PLEASE GOD CONTINUE TO BLESS AMERICA!!!!!

      Report Post »  
  • QweeQwa
    Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:04pm

    One Nation Working Together?

    Sounds like an evil plot top me. it must be stopped.

     
    • VegasGuy
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 10:28pm

      The author had me hooked @ “Let me take you on a journey.”

      Kudos to Seidl for a very interesting and well documented story.

      Report Post » VegasGuy  
    • JD Carp
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:22pm

      I have visited the site and those folks are, 1) scary as hell, 2) competely misguided 3) totally delusional

      Report Post » JD Carp  
    • Sicboy
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 12:18am

      Liberal Doctrine, Religion, Theology, Politics. It “All” leads to one place. Hell.

      Report Post » Sicboy  
    • anOpinion
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:29am

      I think this rally will appeal to people who are too lazy to run their own life and want the government to do it. They are the ones saying “shut up and just give me a fish” when someone offers to teach them to fish. Of course they will also be the first to complain when they can no longer exercise the rights they willingly gave away to the ‘elites’ now running the country and their lives.

      Report Post » anOpinion  
    • chattycathy
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 6:18am

      ‘One Nation Working Together’ is much like ‘collective salvation’…. just as evil, just as dangerous.

      Report Post »  
    • DonkRoberts
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 7:48am

      Yes, One nation working together does sound like an evil plot…because it is. It implies force to be used to achieve its goal and that is what the people meeting 10/2 are advocating to achieve their goal. Any goal requiring the initiation of violence or the threat of same to achieve it is immoral and dangerous to a free people.

      Report Post » DonkRoberts  
    • donbcg
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:40am

      The issue here is quite clear. The UMC has changed over time to believe that man can effect the actions of God through a perversion of faith. Social Justice is not a Godly commandment, it is a manly comandment.

      If it were His commandment then the entire book would have been devoted to selected leaders who have greater insight than He does and they would be charged with ensuring that all His gifts to His children were distributed fairly. No where in nature do you find this.

      Let’s take a trip into Darwinism. In his theory, only the strong survive. That nature has all the power. If nature should decide, your fate is death. Then, so be it. And once you are gone, you are gone. No chance for eternal life. End of story.

      In Christianity we are charged with being stewards of the word and bringing people into the faith. By repenting to Him our sins, we are saved from the end of story Darwinian theory. That our lives here are decided not by nature but by divine providence. As long as we repent, we will be saved in the after life. But each person is responsible for the repentence. I cannot go to Jesus and say, “Jesus, Bob here messed up. He didn’t mean it. Forgive him.” This doesn’t work. He clearly states that we are not able to do this via collective salvation. It’s an individual relationship. Enter baptism if in doubt. We ask, ” Have you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior?” Individual salvation.

      Now, one might assume that since Jesus took all the sins on Himself, this is collective salvation. That if one is to be a Christian we must do as Jesus did and take on ourselves all the ailments of the world, all the poverty, all the despair, and so on. Not true. Jesus was the Son of God. A vessel to carry away our sins and free us to form a church inside the hearts and souls of everyone. This is not possible for an earthly man. Jesus said to lay down the material things and give them away not to show we are selfish and others suffer because you have and they don’t. He wanted us to understand false God’s. The parable of the rich man demonstrates this. He worshiped things and not God. And in the end the rich man could not find salvation because he had not turned from a faith in his things and himself toward God.

      So, for a church to even remotely charge itself into the realm of social justice, has not fully understood the will of God. They have turned toword things as the needs of man. Each man cannot survive without enough food, enough work, enough money, enough this, enough that. If they truly understood the faith, then they surely would see that those things come after one has obsolved himself of worldly sin. Not before.

      Like saying, “If I can just get that car, I will be happy. I will be saved from my despair of not having a car. Because Jones next door is happy and he has a car.” Wrong. Nevermind that Jones has done the work to be saved. Thus free of the 10lb. bowling ball tied to a chain around his heart. Freeing him to accept the gifts that follow. Understanding that the will of man is no challenge to the will of God. Being His servant by serving yourself and then serving others.

      Jesus washed the feet of other men. Does this mean that we should fall and become equal. No. Not at all. It means that regardless of ones stature, ones riches, ones self image, we must be humble in the eyes of all men. That no man is higher on the food chain than any other. This was the sign of charity. That simply because a man have nothing, he may be rich in the eyes of God because he has been saved. That everyone has EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to be saved. Not a guaranty of success but equal opportunity. Because regardless of your level of stature, no riches will be found until each person individually accepts His Grace.

      That is why the UMC has now made themselves irrelevant. They have turned from God to try and get around the will of God. To fool His path chosen. To remove people from the chance to be saved as individuals through a redistribution of faith. You cannot force people to him. They must journey there on their own. Accept his Grace. And be saved. Once one actually fully adopts this, peace will overwhelm their heart and clear their mind so then he can find wealth. Then one can share that wealth with the Grace of God. You serve God by serving His children. You serve His children by doing as Jesus did. Lead by example. He taught us to fish. He did not give us the fish.

      Just my thoughts. Hope and pray for all. I pray for the UMC and it’s members. I pray they find their way back to Jesus. I pray they will again remember the Grace he allows us to find. I pray they will see the error in thier ways. May God have mercy on those who fall, and place a servants heart in those who have not.

      donbcg  
    • Red Bubba
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 8:56am

      Looks like Heddy Lamar had it right. (Blazing Saddles).

      Report Post » Red Bubba  
    • PatriotRider
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:18am

      That’s “Hedley”.

      Report Post » PatriotRider  
    • dwh320
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:01am

      Did you read their website? It demands Unions in ALL workplaces. It is a play book of the Social Justice agenda. It promote classes warfare and divides the country.

      This is nothing more then a Progressive Socialist March to counter the march from Beck back in August. They even try to say it is about faith and religion when in all truth it is about endorsing Socialism and Government control.

      The hate signs will be there for sure along with political speeches from Progressive Democrat candidate. It will be a true Progressive love fest. You can bet the news media will give it non stop coverage and inflate the number of people that show up.

      Report Post » dwh320  
    • IKW
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 10:49am

      Wow, donbcg, you really have it figured out! God Bless!!

      IKW

      Report Post » IKW  
    • donbcg
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:44pm

      IKW-

      Maybe. Who knows. Oh yeah, God. Guess that we all know the truth one day.

      Report Post » donbcg  
    • IKW
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 2:35pm

      I agree, donbcg…God willing, we will find out together. :-)

      IKW

      Report Post » IKW  
    • donbcg
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 3:08pm

      IKW- And maybe to all

      Here is what I posted to an Agnostic earlier. He was confused on why churches felt so plastic and self agrandizing.

      I think you fail to understand the truth about Jesus. I will try to explain it for I was once an Athiest.

      Jesus died on the cross to allow for all men to be relieved of sin. During His time the church had done what many have done in this day. Made the church the house of God. Or as many preachers say, “This is God’s house.” Not so much. Jesus was to teach us that God resides not in the house, but in the spirit. And that spirit resides in all men.

      You see the church or temple of God is inside of you. The church building is where we go to show reverence as a group.

      In many ways religion that chooses the building version use an almost collective salvation theology. Through this house, through this minister, through this saint, through this Pope. That is a perversion of the Gospel. Each person was removed of sin by Jesus because God can have no sin before Him.

      We are all men of flesh and flesh is corrupt. Adam and Eve were the first to be corrupted. Moses taught us His law. And Jesus was sent to wash away the sin that keeps us from being in direct contact with God. Once you have been saved, all your sins have been forgiven. You do not need a minister, or church to contact God because He is inside you now.

      Many believe Jesus will someday come back and deliver us from evil. And I for one hope he does. I don‘t know if he will or if he won’t. But, whether he does or not scripture tells us that he already come, died, and risen. He came in the physical to teach us, He died to suffer our sins, and he arose inside each of us so that we no longer would be tempted in our faith to worship a building, a Pope, a minister, or whatever.

      You see your opinion unfortunately has been scewed by a perversion of the faith. I am not the most scholarly theologist in world, but I do read and I do understand Jesus. He was to teach us that no man is above Him. Not even Jesus. So, you can be a believer and be saved all the same without even joining a religion. Because in Jesus there is no religion. There is only one church. There is one church for each of us. The church is in you.

      That is the difference between 2 key issues we face today. Individual Salvation vs. Collective Salvation. Divine Provedence vs. Manifest Destiny. The latter of both require a mediator. I prefer the former.

      I hope this helps. If you need more let me know on Twitter. Same call sign.

      God Bless You.

      Report Post » donbcg  
    • IKW
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:53pm

      DONBCG,

      Thank you so much for sharing your wonderful revelation. When I said I think you have it, I meant it from a personal perspective as much as a compliment to your good words. I too have had my “moment” although I did not start as an atheist, but an inquisitive child that didn’t quite follow the logic of the Catholic religion. I am very thankful for my wonderful childhood going to church everyday, but I am more thankful for the trials that have led me to truth.

      Three years ago I went on a “leap of faith”, and upon my return everything that I had been searching for snapped into a clear vision of understanding that culminated in a drawing and 99 pages of text. I don’t know if it will ever get read, but I do know I am very happy to have been blessed with the experience. I will change my avatar to the drawing for a brief time because I think it will make sense to you.

      God Bless,
      IKW

      We may want to compare notes

      Report Post » IKW  
    • IKW
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 4:56pm

      The Crest of my Knowledge

      Report Post » IKW  
    • dscm
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 9:26pm

      My heart is broken by the news that the UMC has anything to do with this rally. I am a member of a UMC and i guess i was ignorant of the main churches beliefs. I am not sure what i am going to do.

      Report Post »  
    • donbcg
      Posted on September 29, 2010 at 8:48am

      DSCM-

      Do not lose faith. It is only at the top. Like here in America. The people aren’t bad. Just the leadership. Get back in there and light up your church with this truth. The burning bush will consume them. I promise. Open your mouth and speak to your congregation.

      Shout from the mountaintop. Those who will see will see. Those who can hear will hear. And when the will of God spreads like fire in the truth, these false prophets will parish. I promise. Don’t give up on the church. The church is it‘s people not it’s leaders.

      Report Post » donbcg  
    • IKW
      Posted on September 29, 2010 at 9:42am

      Well, hopefully THIS one is the Crest. ;-)

      IKW

      Report Post » IKW  
    • Millhouse
      Posted on September 29, 2010 at 2:54pm

      For the record, I’m a member of the UMC and I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS RALLY. Nor do I support political activism on the part of the UMC. The governing bodies of the UMC should be going about the business feeding, clothing, and healing our neighbors. Not trying to garner political clout to use at their discression, especially among Marxist/Socialist organizations and Unions.

      Report Post »  
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