Double-Murder Charges Dismissed Under FL ‘Stand Your Ground’ Self-Defense Law

In a high-profile example of Florida’s controversial self-defense statute known as the “Stand your Ground” law, a judge has dismissed all charges against a man in what was initially considered by prosecutors to be a case worthy of the death penalty.Double Murder Charges Dismissed Under Stand Your Ground Law in Florida

Judge Richard Oftedahl of the 15th Judicial Circuit last week dismissed two first-degree murder charges against Michael Monahan, 65.

The ruling stated Monahan was justified under Florida Statute 776.013(3), the “Stand your Ground” law, when he shot Raymond Mohlman and Matthew Vittum because he was in fear for his life during an altercation aboard a 35-foot sailboat anchored near Riviera Beach, Florida.

At first glance the case appeared likely to see trial, as there were no weapons on the two dead men and little to go on except Monahan’s account. In fact, prosecutors had originally sought the death penalty against Monahan but altered course early in the case.

When Riviera Beach police arrived at the scene on April 3rd, according to the Sun-Sentinel, they found Monahan:

“Paddling his kayak away from the Green Galleon, where Ramie Mohlman and Vittum lay dead. In interviews with police, Monahan said the men had tried to remove him from the sailboat, which he had bought from Mohlman six months earlier for $1,000.”

Mohlman, formerly a competitive wrestler who quit his local teaching job in 2010 to spend most of the year in Belize, had previously confronted Monahan for allegedly running up $500 of tickets for registration violations with the sailboat.

Double Murder Charges Dismissed Under Stand Your Ground Law in Florida

(Credit: Thomas Cordy, Palm Beach Post)

Monahan’s attorney, however, told the court that Monahan explicitly stated from the outset he was afraid for his life, and felt he had no option other than to defend himself.  Mohlman’s intent that day, as well as his justification for boarding the vessel, came under the court’s scrutiny:

“Witnesses told police that by the time Mohlman boarded the Green Galleon with Vittum on the day they died, his plans were to either evict Monahan from the boat, or to kill him… Monahan said Mohlman never showed him any proof of the tickets and felt cornered when Mohlman and Vittum boarded his boat without his permission. He said he didn’t have time to call police.”

In addition to Monahan’s narrative of events, Mohlman’s blood alcohol level was three times the legal limit, and Vittum had cocaine, oxycodone, and marijuana in his system when he was killed.

The Assistant State attorney in the case, Jacqui Charbonneau, tried to prevent the court’s dismissal by asserting neither of the men Monahan killed were armed, they were shot from 20 feet away, and Monahan admitted neither of them laid a hand on him during the dispute.

The judge countered with the fact that the statute does not call for the assailants to be armed or to commit physical violence, only to have created the perception of imminent violence. The most relevant part of the statute reads:

“A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”

This case could already heighten the already tense debate over the “Stand Your Ground” law, which went into effect in Florida in 2005. As of last October, the law had been in effect for five years and was invoked in 93 cases that caused 65 deaths statewide.

For political reasons, gun control advocates may try to tie this case into the recent decision of Florida governor Rick Scott to normalize gun laws across the state by enforcing a law that has already been on the books for decades.

Meanwhile, the debate over “Stand Your Ground” will continue as the press fights it out in the court of public opinion case by case.

Comments (306)

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  • onyxsky101
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:28am

    Wow, the Assistant State Attorney needs to rethink his opinion that these two outstanding people needed to be armed or kicking this guy’s butt before he was justified to use deadly force. AND way to go, over looking the fact one was drunk off his rocker, and the other was drugged out of his mind, yep….. in no way could they have posed a threat to this guy!~ (Sarcasm! and eye roll) I’m sure the ASA would just reason with them in the same position.

    Report Post » onyxsky101  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:49am

      Lucky for this guy he did not reside in a liberal state

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • RightWrite
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:56am

      I’d like to know the last thoughts of the punks when the gun was pulled on them — “OH Crap”. When two big bullies come knocking, our friends Smith & Wesson can answer the door.

      Report Post » RightWrite  
    • arvadadan
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:01pm

      When seconds count, the police are only minutes away….

      Report Post » arvadadan  
    • Jezcruzen
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:06pm

      “Leave old men alone. They are too old to fight, so they will just kill you!”

      Report Post »  
    • Melvin Spittle
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:19pm

      Here is the People’s Socialist Republic of California, he would have been convicted of murder and received the death penalty. The disparity between state laws regarding “justice” is shocking when it comes to self-defense: He would have been given a medal as citizen of the month in Texas, but in California, the death penalty or life in prison. If you believe in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, stay out of California and other radical states that believe all of your rights are collective rights.

      Report Post » Melvin Spittle  
    • afishfarted
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:31pm

      There are TWO very important things coming out of this. Like the preceeding cases, the judge read the law correctly and ruled on the law. Which leads to the other and more important issue, Lawyers on eith side have been efectively prevented from arguing “case law” in the furture. Too often, criminal cases are take to court using case law instead of the actual law. Kuddo’s to Florida

      Report Post »  
    • LordOfTheArchons
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:43pm

      The two guys could’ve choked the man to death or maybe knocked him out, tied something heavy to his feet and thrown him overboard. You don’t need a gun to kill somebody. Just ask Casey Anthony.

      Report Post » LordOfTheArchons  
    • Le Sellers
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:44pm

      rangerp sed:
      > Lucky for this guy he did not reside in a liberal state

      I hope “luck” had nothing to do with it. I hope “this guy” lived where he does precisely because Florida has the kind of laws that respect his creator-endowed right to self protection.

      I also hope that liberals and other progressives all end up together, so they can have the kind of place they prefer, and that they will leave the rest of us alone (Forlorn, hope, ’tis true, but a hope nonetheless.) Unfortunately, they tend to gather ’round the sanctuaries of freedom,. and then do their best to destroy them.

      Report Post » Le Sellers  
    • HisNameWasRobertPaulson
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:59pm

      @thirdarchon, the only thing that stinks here is your analysis, which is completely wrong.

      It is entirely possible to get two kill shots at 20 feet, even in a panic. Have you ever gone target shooting with a handgun? 20 feet is nothing! Most people, when holding the gun correctly, can get kill shots at 20 feet without much practice. Your analysis is incorrect.

      The man was in his sixties. The two men were very large, hulking men. One was three times past drunk, and the other was on a mixture of illegal drugs. When you have larger men, they do have a higher testosterone level. When you mix testosterone with high levels of alcohol or drugs, you get a very violent, potent, and yes, very lethal combination.

      Have you never heard of anyone getting beat to death? Really?

      As for evidence, THEY ARE ON A BOAT!!! They simply sail the boat out to sea, dump the body, bleach out the boat, and no more evidence. Even a drunk idiot and a stoned out moron can tell you that. In fact, a drunk idiot and a stoned out moron would think of that.

      You wouldn’t because of how smart you are.

      You got the whole thing wrong.

      Do you understand that once someone starts approaching you inside of 20 feet, you do not have time to draw your weapon and fire. Every police officer knows this. The man had to act. They could have killed him with their strength alone. He had nothing but his gun to protect him. He did just that. They died.

      He was right. You were wrong. Sorry. But truth is tr

      Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 1:12pm

      Why are you arguing with a troll? ;-)

      Report Post »  
    • old white guy
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 1:35pm

      it gets a little old having to defend yourself for defending yourself. police and others who bring such charges should have to pay some sort of personal penalty. if they had to be responsible for their actions they might think twice.

      Report Post »  
    • Angeli
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 1:39pm

      In the world we seem to live in,packin is the way to go. It doesn’t say the ages of these two thugs against a 65 yr.old and harm they meant to do no doubt,figured him an easy target and perhaps bully him into giving up the boat eh? Super spot on outcome!

      Report Post »  
    • STS2_SS_Iver
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 1:43pm

      Oh, yeah, living in Massachusetts if that happened to me I’d be screwed.

      Report Post » STS2_SS_Iver  
    • Bum thrower
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 1:49pm

      The ‘perps’ were doped and drunk; not a good combination;

      Report Post »  
    • Jaycen
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 1:59pm

      One of the guys was a professional wrestler. If a huge guy who was wasted was threatening me, I wouldn’t hesitate to pull out a gun and point it at him. If he didn’t back off, I‘m pretty sure I’d start pulling the trigger.

      Report Post » Jaycen  
    • Susan Harkins
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 2:07pm

      “Monahan’s attorney, however, told the court that Monahan explicitly stated from the outset he was afraid for his life, and felt he had no option other than to defend himself.”

      That’s enough for me. I have every intention of using the same criteria before deciding to shoot. If I am afraid — if my knees are shaking, my aim will be steady. Nuff said.

      Report Post » Susan Harkins  
    • CatB
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 2:09pm

      So glad that I live in FL .. someone breaks into my home I don’t have to wait to be raped or disabled before I send them straight to H!

      TEA!

      Report Post »  
    • Hollywood
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 2:13pm

      Fortunate he didn’t shoot them with a gun from Fast and Furious,drug lord re-armament program Barry and the boys were behind. Holder at the DJ,already has enough blood on his hands!

      Report Post » Hollywood  
    • liberalsruseless
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 2:59pm

      I’m in the process of moving from CA to FL, it looks like I’m making the right move, especially as I am a gun owner and believe in defending myself.

      Report Post »  
    • Edct
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 3:59pm

      Good for him…it is self defense and everyone has this right in America…if more people used guns against thugs like this we would have less crime.

      Report Post »  
    • ALANR
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 4:52pm

      The 64 year old man would have saved himself a lot of trouble if he would have used “the three shot rule”, you know, one in the middle to slow him down, one between the eyes, to stop the chance of a lawsuit and a third one in the roof or off two oneside. Somebody that is listening doesn’t know which order the shots were fired. Honestly Sir! “I gave them a warning shot but they kept on comming”.

      Report Post »  
    • UPSETVET
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 5:04pm

      As a 72 year old former combat Marine I aplaud Mr. Manohan for standing up to the two threatening bullies that thought just because he was old, he was a push over. I’d like to be able to hear their last thoughts when Manohan pulled out his gun and started blazing away. I’m a Texan and I was on a business trip in February of 2008 in Jacksonville Florida. I have a concealed weapon permit in Texas but always carry my 380 Colt automatic in my car wherever I go. I was minding my own business at a self service car wash off Blanding Blvd when I suddenly became a person of interest to a car load of young black men.

      They began calling me names like “old man” and “gray haired old honky fool ” and a few others I can’t write on facebook. I tried to ignore them but when they decided to approach me I drew down on them with my 380 Colt automatic. That stopped them in their tracks. A couple of them must of received a spurt of adrenaline because they suddenly started my way again. I let fly with a half clip( of eight rounds) just over their heads. I couldn’t see anything but dust and all I heard were loud screeching from the tires of their car and one hollering “your a crazy old man” and I yelled back, “ ”Yea, a might be, but I’m a live crazy old man.” Ha Love that Stand Your Ground Florida law. Every state should have it. Semper Fi…

      Report Post »  
    • Mil-Dot
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 5:17pm

      Yeah, you see, you have to wait until you are getting your head kicked in by intoxicated freaks and drug addicts and your brains are flowing out of your eyes and ears before you have the right to self defense with, “god forbid” a firearm. (sarc)

      Report Post »  
    • lylejk
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 5:43pm

      Glad to see the judge get’s this one right. No reason, especially after this many months, for the 2 dead guys to be even close to this boat and man other then to cause harm. Kudos to the man who had the gun and knew how to defend himself with it. :)

      Report Post » lylejk  
    • 4blackhorses
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 6:13pm

      Sarcasm, my middle name. Out did your self on the eye roll, more than you’d get from a teenager when a “oldster” says something “hip”(?).

      Report Post »  
    • KYHighlander
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 7:11pm

      Isn’t it considered piracy to board a boat without permission?

      Report Post »  
    • Disnylv
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 8:08pm

      Good for him. Take a lesson thugs, Americans are not afraid to live
      The law of the constitution.

      Report Post »  
    • Rowgue
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 8:21pm

      @MELVIN

      Actually the laws about self defense in Texas are pretty anti-gun. There have been countless cases of people convicted of murder in Texas for defending themselves and/or their property.

      Report Post »  
    • teamarcheson
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 10:08pm

      This should be the law of the land. Everyone other than criminals and people trying to take the law into their own hand would be safer. Something must be done to force criminals and angry people to think twice before attacking someone who may be armed. Think twice should be the motto of this law.

      Report Post »  
    • Red Bubba
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 10:21pm

      Nice pic, a Tiki from Infinity Firearms.

      Report Post » Red Bubba  
  • Ookspay
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:28am

    Nice Shooting Old Dude. Thank you for evicting 2 losers from my planet.

    Report Post » Ookspay  
    • AZfreeman
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 3:45pm

      An armed society is a respectful society! …rf

      Report Post » AZfreeman  
  • Seasoldier
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:27am

    As with any law, there will be those who attempt to twist this “stand your ground” law for their own purposes. However, law abiding citizens have a right to self-defense and, in this country such persons have a right to “bear arms”. There should be no question that citizens have a right defend themselves and others without first fleeing from danger, if they are capable of doing so.

    Report Post »  
    • Tim Law
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:58am

      In Calif. you can only shoot them after your dead. If you shoot them before your dead, you’ll be sued and spend the rest of your life in prison. Criminals have the right to rob you, beat you, or kill you. The price of defending yourself, is much higher than any punishment a criminal would pay for doing any of the above to you. Case in point Calif. is releasing 25 to 30 thousand prisoners due to over crowding, no parole, no restrictions, no supervision. Do you think even one of these people will be a person that was wrongly convicted for defending themselves? Not a chance! I tip my hat to the State of Florida and Judge Richard Oftedahl. Great Law! Great Judge!

      Report Post »  
    • Mil Mom
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:32pm

      @Tim Law
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:58am
      In Calif. you can only shoot them after your dead. If you shoot them before your dead, you’ll be sued and spend the rest of your life in prison. Criminals have the right to rob you, beat you, or kill you. The price of defending yourself, is much higher than any punishment a criminal would pay for doing any of the above to you. Case in point Calif. is releasing 25 to 30 thousand prisoners due to over crowding, no parole, no restrictions, no supervision. Do you think even one of these people will be a person that was wrongly convicted for defending themselves? Not a chance! I tip my hat to the State of Florida and Judge Richard Oftedahl. Great Law! Great Judge
      ****
      Bet He’ll never get nominated for Supreme Court by this administration, if a Perry, Bachmann or Palin administration did, wouldn‘t the lib frogs be croakin’ ?

      Report Post » Mil Mom  
  • SpankDaMonkey
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:25am

    .
    It’s safer to Shoot first, and ask questions later…………

    Report Post » SpankDaMonkey  
    • TEA4Me
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:55am

      These guys were tresspassing. They might as well have walked into his home. Give them one warning and open fire. Period.

      Report Post » TEA4Me  
    • blattack
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:59pm

      Once “THE BAD GUYS” find out we have a right to protect ourselves & family, crime will go “down”..one way or another. STAND YOUR GROUND

      Report Post » blattack  
    • hud
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 7:15pm

      The leftist BS of the 60′s started ending with the dead maggots at Kent State. Flash mobs and thugs will get the hint when a citizen wastes about 10 of them Sooner is better than later.

      Report Post »  
    • BobM
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 7:18pm

      The only “warning” they get is the sound of the safety being CLICKED OFF!

      Report Post » BobM  
  • eramthgin
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:24am

    Lets see….two men half his age and drugged up and fubared board his boat without permission. No different then walking into your house with permission. Sounds like the Judge got this one right on the mark. This old guy was suppose to attempt to physically remove them from his boat. Ridiculous! This Judge should slap the prosecutors for being stupid.

    Report Post » eramthgin  
    • BuckeyeWithA45
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:40am

      This Judge should slap the prosecutors for being stupid.

      He kind of did in my opinion. Captiol case my a$$

      Report Post » BuckeyeWithA45  
    • Mil Mom
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:37pm

      @eramthgin
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:24am
      Lets see….two men half his age and drugged up and fubared board his boat without permission. No different then walking into your house with permission. Sounds like the Judge got this one right on the mark. This old guy was suppose to attempt to physically remove them from his boat. Ridiculous! This Judge should slap the prosecutors for being stupid
      ***
      Minimum, they should have to repay any bond he’s posted, his legal fees and any other expenses the attempted prosecution cost.

      Report Post » Mil Mom  
  • Move2Texas
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:20am

    Justified all day long.

    Report Post » Move2Texas  
    • Hickory
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:30am

      Maybe after a few get put away, they will think twice about attacking and threatening people. It seems to me that liberals want to defend crooks, bullies and felons. The average guy has had the deck stacked against him for too long. We now have laws that level the playing field. Come to my house, threaten me………….. Mr. Winchester or Mr. Remington has provided me a way to take care of it.

      Report Post » Hickory  
    • power_cord
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 1:41pm

      @ Hickory – ala your Mr. Remington and Mr. Winchester…

      Mr. Daniels or Mr. Budweiser don’t live with me but Mr. Mossberg, Mr. Ruger, Mr. Marlin, Mr. Saiga and a few others ALL do. While they like to keep to themselves, I know that I can rely on them if I have to.

      BTW – I live in Florida and love it here. I agree with the old man‘s actions and the judge’s decision.

      Report Post » power_cord  
    • Mil-Dot
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 5:21pm

      It is not that lib progs want to defend bullies so much as they hate guns because they prevent their Utopian society from coming to fruition. That is what is up with that. Private ownership of guns = govt can’t do whatever it wants to with us.

      Report Post »  
    • KYHighlander
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 7:21pm

      @Hickory The reason the Democrats defend the criminals and the low lifes is that is their voter base. Read the Rolling Stone Magazine this month, there is an article in there ranting on how the Republican Party is trying to stop Democrats from voting, how you ask? By banning convicted felons and those without government issued photo IDs from voting. Duh..

      Report Post »  
    • RetiredChief
      Posted on September 13, 2011 at 6:47pm

      Of course the Libs want to protect these thugs…they’re their voting base!

      Report Post » RetiredChief  
  • commonsense2012
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:20am

    The right of self defense is a basic right of any individual or nation. If you do not want to get shot, do not get into any situation that puts you at risk. The perp is responsible, not the innocent victim! Of course any liberal will tell you otherwise… Evil is good-Good is evil

    Report Post » commonsense2012  
  • rpp
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:19am

    Good law. Seems to have worked as designed.

    Report Post » rpp  
  • taxedenuf
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:19am

    I love the Florida common sense approach to violence.

    Report Post »  
  • ValiantDefender
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:18am

    Assailants were drunk and high. They boarded a vessel out on the water and he was alone. I’m sorry, but I’d have to side with the old man protecting himself in this case.

    Report Post » ValiantDefender  
    • TH30PH1LUS
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:52am

      Agreed. Article mentions distance of 20 feet. A person can close 20 feet in a second.

      Report Post » TH30PH1LUS  
    • Rlynn
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:59am

      I‘m on the old gentleman’s side, too. What a horrible position to be in. Thank God he had a gun with him for protection.

      Report Post » Rlynn  
    • blattack
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 1:00pm

      yes sir

      Report Post » blattack  
    • Le Sellers
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 3:35pm

      ValiantDefendersed:
      > I’m sorry, but I’d have to side with the old man protecting himself in this case.

      Why on earth would you be sorry?

      Report Post » Le Sellers  
  • ROB RAGE
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:18am

    I believe Mr. Monahan was justified..these guys good have called the Cops and had the dispute resolved….People have the right to self defense…I think they wanted the boat back ..Pirate style…!

    Report Post » ROB RAGE  
    • MHP
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:40am

      Gun owners

      Dr. Ignatious Piazza founder of Front Sight says any gun is better than no gun.
      He’s got some damn good training courses, they are even better than the military and Law enforcement gives. Most people who go for this training are LEO’s and military, but any gun owner can go.
      This is the best gun training in the whole country, but it’s very spendy.

      http://www.frontsight.com

      Report Post » MHP  
    • Wolf
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 2:20pm

      Sorry, MHP- Front Site is NOT the ‘best’ school for gun training, it’s just one of many. And it is probably the spendiest, though Piazzo does have a lot of incentives to attend that bring costs down- such as his ‘enter a class and recieve a free XD’ program.
      But the best? Not by a long shot.

      Report Post »  
    • PatriotComeLately
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 2:30pm

      @wolf – so IYHO, what is the best gun school open to ordinary folks? or schools?

      Report Post » PatriotComeLately  
    • demarvell
      Posted on September 13, 2011 at 5:54pm

      Wolf, IMHO, Frontsight is the best. I am just a retired Vet and I could afford a Lifetime Membership, and they are the best, because they teach me! But any course is better than no course. If you don’t read up on all the places that offer courses, you won’t know which will be best for you. I will put up our Frontsight shooters up against any other course in the in the USA.
      (But, ok, I am a little biased.) Frontsight keeps growing and hiring more instructors all the time.

      Report Post »  
  • Neighborhood Watchman
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:16am

    skin em if ya got em!

    Report Post » Neighborhood Watchman  
  • BRONKO
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:16am

    Drugs and alcohal in there blood, intent to do harm, GIVE THAT MONAHAN AN ATTTA BOY AND SOME MORE AMMO.

    Report Post »  
  • steveo427
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:16am

    It’s better to have a gun and not need it than the other way around.
    Thank God for the right to conceal carry in Florida.

    Report Post »  
    • CharlesMartel
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 9:52pm

      “the right to conceal carry in Florida.” ???

      If it is a right, then why is a permit (license) required? [end sarcasm]

      Report Post » CharlesMartel  
  • rcampb10
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:16am

    I am so glad to hear this !!! Its about time people realized,,if you threaten to harm some one, and have the ability to do it. You may learn a life short lesson……Good Job..

    Report Post »  
  • Wayne
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:16am

    Sounds like murder to me, was the judge his kin folk?

    Report Post »  
    • JimCDew
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:27am

      It’s better to be sorry than it is to be missed by your kin folk (frickin’ idiot).

      Report Post »  
    • Hickory
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:32am

      You have a hearing problem.

      Report Post » Hickory  
    • ShineTheLightBrighter
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:33am

      I am told police use the 21 foot rule. That is if the assailant is closer than 21 feet they can get to you before you can get your weapon out of its holster so you better get it out ealier than later. If I was alone on a boat with two intoxicated guys bent on beating me and tossing me overboard, I would have pulled the trigger too.

      Report Post »  
    • decendentof56
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:41am

      HaHa, you lost this one, Wayner…..
      I know you think the blacks who attacked Whites at the Wisconsin St Fair were justified, and the racist Black Panthers in Philly were justified in blocking access to the polls.
      JARTAMAN and you are idiots, and we don’t care what you think. Come into my house, and I’ll take care of you, too.
      Have a nice day, Waynee!

      Report Post »  
    • Dan
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:42am

      I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

      Dan

      Report Post » Dan  
    • Vic Tory
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:49pm

      What was he supposed to do? Jump overboard?

      Report Post » Vic Tory  
    • lel2007
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 10:46pm

      Sounds like two thugs died threatening one old man to me.

      Report Post » lel2007  
    • Mil Mom
      Posted on September 13, 2011 at 12:20am

      @Wayne
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:16am
      Sounds like murder to me, was the judge his kin folk?
      ***
      If he’d gotten off a lucky shot with his dying breath, then it’d been self-defense, RIGHT? GET OVER IT, PEOPLE WERE GRANTED THE RIGHT TO DEFEND SELF AND PROPERTY WITH OUR DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE!
      “We hold thiese truths to be SELF -EVIDENT, that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALEINABLE RIGHTS, that among these are LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. (para 2a Declaration of Independence)
      IF IT’S AN UNALIENABLE RIGHT, THAT MEANS THAT HE HAS THE RIGHT TO PREVENT SOMEONE FROM TAKING IT AWAY! If these guys had threatened him before and one was once a PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER, HE HAD EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND HIMSELF AND PROPERTY! Go buy a couple more judges for your side before the Tea Party takes away BO’s right to appoint them!!!

      Report Post » Mil Mom  
    • MKEgal
      Posted on September 13, 2011 at 9:27am

      No, the attempted murder was the 2 trespassers going after the 1 old man.
      Remember 1 of the thugs was a pro fighter, & they both were chemically impaired.
      What the victim did was to protect himself, which is perfectly legal, ethical, moral, etc.
      It’s called justifiable homicide.

      Report Post »  
  • MuyLocoNC
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:16am

    “Permission to come aboard, sir?”

    Report Post » MuyLocoNC  
  • jakartaman
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:14am

    I am a conceal weapons carrier (Licensed) but this does not seem appropriate.
    If I THINK my life is in danger I can shoot someone? wow seems to me an open invitation.
    These guys were unarmed and 20 ft away and drunk/high. They may even be real dirt bags but……

    Report Post »  
    • DimmuBorgir
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:17am

      By all means, don’t protect yourself.

      lawful or not, I will never just not defend myself cause I might get in trouble after.

      Report Post » DimmuBorgir  
    • jakartaman
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:26am

      Hey Dimwit,
      I did not say I would not defend myself – I was making the point that his shooting seems a little premature. The were drunk and loud mouths 20 feet away. Nothing in the article stated that these guys threaten him with violence.Now he could have pulled the gun and said come any closer and I will blow your head off. The story reads these guys got on the boat unwelcome and were shot.

      Report Post »  
    • calonzap
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:26am

      What do you think that weapon you are licensed to carry is for? Looks?

      Report Post »  
    • Gary Fishaholic
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:27am

      But what so you think the guy should have waited to be attacked before shooting them? This would have been a totally different story.

      Report Post » Gary Fishaholic  
    • blues guitar
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:35am

      What do you think a “reasonable” distance is before someone should protect themselves? 10 feet? 5 feet? 3 feet?

      “Witnesses told police that by the time Mohlman boarded the Green Galleon with Vittum on the day they died, his plans were to either evict Monahan from the boat, or to kill him…” Sounds like an imminent threat and the perps had intention to do harm. They also sought out the victim and were stoned.

      Not sure why a concealed carry permit holder would make excuses for two potential attackers. Would you want your spouse or children to wait for two thugs to get closer before they defend themselves?

      Report Post »  
    • VTDave
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:38am

      If he had simply attempted to hold them at bay and call 911, assuming he had a cellphone immediately in his possession, it may have ended poorly for him. In their jacked up condition it is likely that they would have attacked him and put a bullet into him after wrangling the gun from him.

      Report Post » VTDave  
    • decendentof56
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:45am

      JAKOFFMAN…..
      They came aboard uninvited. No gray area there. Stay off and you don’t get shot. Even an idiot like you should be able to understand that.

      Report Post »  
    • evilhatemonger
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:54am

      How is it different than having two hostiles in your house? For the sake of the law, that boat is a dwelling. This wasn’t a public area. Did you sleep through your CC Class? They typically cover this stuff pretty thoroughly.
      Look up 21 foot rule by the way.

      Report Post » evilhatemonger  
    • AlansTigg
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:59am

      so “thinking” your life is in danger is not justification for self defense….please explain to me at what point you KNOW your life is in danger and are therefore justified? Is it when you realize that the first 20 punches/kicks were just a warm up?
      And despite your assertion that this is an open invitation, amazingly enough we do not have people running around the state shooting each other just for sport.

      Report Post » AlansTigg  
    • MerryColin
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:12pm

      Apparently you shouldn’t be “licensed” to carry a firearm. Any instructor in a CCW class will tell you that if you believe you are in a situation where your life may be in IMMINENT danger you are justified in defending yourself. In other words, think and then act in the moment— anything else may be suicide. Gun owners aren’t cops nor are they shrinks. You write like someone who would be happy to merely “get the drop on them” and sort it out from there. DUMB! If you pull the weapon you are obligated to use it to the best of your ability or don’t pull it! If I were alone on a boat and was boarded by ANYONE other than the harbor patrol or Coast Guard, you can bet your bippy I’d defend myself.

      Report Post »  
    • Ghostrider
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 1:04pm

      If yuo would not defend yourself like he did, then why in the world do you have a carry concealed permit? I mean, if you refuse to defend yourself, why? Maybe he could have offered them coffee or tea, and they could have all sat around the boat singing 1960′s love songs and felt better about themselves. Crap man, if two drunk punks come onto my property with intent to do me harm, yep, two shots, two kills, OOH-RAH!

      Report Post »  
    • SanRemo1959
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 5:26pm

      Jakartaman, you miss the whole point (and the beauty) of the Florida law. It removes all doubt from a gun owner’s mind in a confrontation, doubt which could cost him his life. The bad guys know the law. Given enough time for it to sink in, I believe there will eventually be fewer confrontations, as belligerents out there realize that they are liable to wind up dead. I love the peace of mind that comes from never ever having to flee and never having to face indictment should I decide that someone is required to be shot, as long as I stay in Florida.

      Report Post »  
    • RepubliCorp
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 8:24pm

      JAKARTAMAN boats, cars & house …….. you don’t have to retreat in Florida. Come on my boat without my permission here and you die…. It is that simple. There is nothing for you to figure-out or ponder.

      Report Post » RepubliCorp  
    • MKEgal
      Posted on September 13, 2011 at 9:25am

      Clear disparity of force: 1 old man, 2 young men; 1 of the attackers was a pro fighter.
      Attackers were trespassing.
      Apparently they’d made their intent to evict him from his property, probably violently, plenty clear to the victim.
      And given the various drugs in both of them, they were unlikely to be the most reasonable, thoughtful, easy to deal with people.

      I see absolutely nothing wrong with the man defending himself.
      Kinda sorry he now has to deal with having killed 2 people, but I‘m glad he wasn’t the one killed, & I‘m glad the taxpayers aren’t stuck with the cost of 2 trials + incarceration for however long.

      Report Post »  
  • scrapadapolis
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:14am

    need laws like that in NY.Here you shoot someone in your house and have a legal firearm You are a murderer.and have to be run through the system.

    Report Post » scrapadapolis  
    • dancermommd
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:24am

      I’d think about moving out of NY then.

      Report Post »  
    • Hickory
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:33am

      Ok, just stay in NY. Don’t bother the rest of us with your problems.

      Report Post » Hickory  
    • NYpolicestate
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:36am

      Not to mention the civil suite that follows the criminal case. I would say about $100k in attorney fees….I live in NY; it is the worst state in the nation! Would leave in a second if I could!

      Report Post » NYpolicestate  
    • MHP
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:26pm

      NYpolicestate

      Not here in WY. We have a stand your ground law (Castle Doctrine) here too, which I wrote the bill., and no need to get a license to carry concealed, although you can still get one, which is reciprical in 40 states.
      We can’t be sued either by state law.

      Report Post » MHP  
    • faithkills
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 5:26pm

      @dancermommd

      You should definitely leave NY if they had a stand your ground law. You would no longer be able to burgle, murder or rape with minimal risk. You should move on to greener pastures like California or another victim disarmament zone. Just common sense for an ambitious criminal, go where the victims are.

      There’s a reason why no one ever robs redneck bars.

      Report Post » faithkills  
    • RepubliCorp
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 8:39pm

      I am from NY and had a pistol permit when I lived there. And you don’t have to retreat in your house in New York state. So BS

      Report Post » RepubliCorp  
  • ChiefGeorge
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:14am

    From what I can see he was still justified. If you wait til they get their hands on you then you have waited to long, because once this happens no telling how things will pan out for you…the victim. Shoot and ask questions later. It sends a good and healthy message to the masses that if they think they can just roll up on you without a fight then they have gotta rethink this because you just might shoot them from 20 feet away. This is the beauty of the gun unlike the knife for close encounters. You just point and shoot, problem solved.

    Report Post » ChiefGeorge  
    • shazam3
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:13pm

      The most important words in the statement was the man was 65 years old. Trust me at that age you can’t physically fight any one. The man did the right thing, he protected his property and his life.

      Report Post »  
    • Drop Bear
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 8:21pm

      Shazam3 – never be fooled by someone’s age. My 73 yr old dad could have taken them out without breaking a sweat. Also, if you ever watch shows such as Human Weapon, you would know to never mess with the old guys. ;)

      Report Post »  
    • lel2007
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 10:48pm

      “The great equalizer”

      Report Post » lel2007  
  • smithclar3nc3
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:12am

    Sounds like that’s one law that works great. And keeps the tax payers debt to a minimum.

    Report Post »  
    • DimmuBorgir
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:16am

      GREAT GREAT LAW. good job

      Report Post » DimmuBorgir  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:18am

      Indeed, this is one clear cut case of a prosecutor looking for quick political points in a conviction; and a defendant — confronted by a beligerant drunk and doped up bullyboy with him, rightfully could feel his life was in imminent danger.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
  • BurntHills
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:12am

    EVERY State should have a STAND YOUR GROUND Law built right in its Constitution.

    Report Post » BurntHills  
  • beekeeper
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:11am

    From the above article:

    “The judge countered with the fact that the statute does not call for the assailants to be armed or to commit physical violence, only to have created the perception of imminent violence.”

    I can’t wait for lawmakers at argue the bill they passed, the legislation that was implemented, is not what they ASSUMED the bill/legislation would do – despite the clear meaning of the words in both…

    Report Post » beekeeper  
  • drphil69
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:11am

    This is bizarre… how could the 2 dead guys evict the old man from a boat that he bought from them? That is how the story reads… and if they sold the boat to the old man, why would they care about “registration tickets?”

    Report Post »  
    • Docrow
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:49am

      two words “drunk and high”

      Report Post » Docrow  
    • Redscot
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 12:27pm

      If the boat has tickets on the license, he cannot license it in his name until they are paid. If they told witnesses that they planned on beating him and taking the boat, it is a justified case of self-defense. At 65, he was not going to be able to fight off 2 guys. They came onto his boat without permission.

      Report Post »  
    • hud
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 7:19pm

      No wonder he was paddling away, you can’t trust judges or prosecutors to correctly read and enforce the law.

      Report Post »  
    • RepubliCorp
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 8:45pm

      Because if the Old guy didn’t change the title on the boat the ticket could go to the last known owner.

      Report Post » RepubliCorp  
    • Mil Mom
      Posted on September 13, 2011 at 12:42am

      @drphil69
      Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:11am
      This is bizarre… how could the 2 dead guys evict the old man from a boat that he bought from them? That is how the story reads… and if they sold the boat to the old man, why would they care about “registration tickets?”
      ****
      Don’t know what the “registration tickets” means, but if he bought the boat from them several months ago for $1000, they may have boozed & drugged it all away by then. Probably needed to resell it to start over again.

      Report Post » Mil Mom  
  • JimCDew
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:11am

    Finally a judge with common sense (and a commonsense state law).

    Report Post »  
  • markdido
    Posted on September 12, 2011 at 11:47pm

    FloridaCracker.

    In Florida, you have always had the ability to use deadly force to protect yourself or others in your home. What the “Stand Your Ground” law did, was extend this right to anywhere that you had a legal right to be. This could be at the 7-11, or standing in line at the ATM. The law also does not allow for civil liability if it’s a “good shoot”
    I love living in Florida!

    Report Post »  
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