Tony Evans on Christianity & Partisan Politics at ‘Under God’ Conference: ‘God Does Not Ride the Backs of Donkeys & Elephants’
- Posted on July 27, 2012 at 8:44pm by
Billy Hallowell
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On Friday evening, evangelical leader Dr. Tony Evans took the stage for “Under God: Indivisible,” where he mixed humor with serious subject matter. From partisan politics to the power of the church, Evans rallied the audience and encouraged believers to focus upon their God.
“God’s immune system in the culture is the church,” Evans said, continuing, “So if cultural colds are now societal pneumonia, it’s because the immune system is down.”
Evans’ challenge to believers was well-received, as they cheered for him throughout his exuberant speech.
The faith leader also delved into partisan politics. Rather than towing the party line, he reminded believers that they serve God and not partisanship.
“God does not ride the backs of donkeys and elephants,” he proclaimed. “Your job is to represent another king in another kingdom.”
To this, Evans got a standing ovation from the crowd.
Watch the video, below:
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Comments (94)
woodyl1011fl
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 4:32pmchjaka, you simply do not know what you are talking about. By the way the democrat party’s animal mascot is in reality a jackass not a donkey. And the US Senate is full of them.
Report Post »DLG123
Posted on July 30, 2012 at 10:40amActually God did ride the back of a donkey…
Anyone heard of Palm Sunday? Matthew 21:1-11
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 3:04pmOur job as Christians is not to “agree to disagree.” Our job is to speak the truth in love. Speaking the truth in love still requires speaking the truth.
We are not to reject politics as worldly, or secular or beneath Christians. Politics is how God uses governments to bless people. We find ourselves supporting or opposing certain political parties because of the beneficial or detrimental political policies they support.
Although God does not “ride the backs of donkeys and elephants,” political parties more or less align themselves with God’s standards. It just so happens that the Republicans are more closely aligned with God’s standards than the Democrats.
Report Post »john vincent
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:03pm‘God doesnt ride the backs of donkeys and elephants…? No, they have both delegated GOd to clean up the mess from behind, at the same time blaming HIm for the mess. That you atheists.
At least there are a few voices who call unto him. Curse Israel, and you have GOd as an enemy, dont worry about being trampled by an elephant, or barked at by a donkey..
Report Post »melbach
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 10:41amWow! Great message, Dr. Evans. I loved the NFL analogy. His message goes right along with what my pastor has been preaching. “No King, but King Jesus.” Amen!
Report Post »woodyl1011fl
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 4:27pmThe democrats are going to come after us for that TRUTH. Obama thinks and his party agrees government is GOD.
Report Post »Creativethinker
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:41am@Paul
Report Post »As christians we should agree to disagree.. The most important thing is salvation. I have a problem with condescending christians… doesn’t seem very christian like and the world is watching.
gac1218
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 10:11amHow about if another christian believes in a different formula for salvation? There are indisputable truths in Gods word. I agree we must not demeen others and argue for the sake of arguement, but we must also do as Gods word says, regarding other christians. “You who are spritual, correct and rebuke, (in a loving spirit) with all authority.” We can’t ignore one scripture in favor of another. They must all work in harmony or our understanding is tainted by our minds. Romans 14 speaks of not passing judgement on disputable matters, (vices, or cultural no no’s) As christians we are never called to correct those outside of the church, but we do. We are always called to correct, (not attack) those in the church, but we don’t. What does that say about us? Fix the church, fix the world.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 1:05pm@ GA….In essentials unity, in nonessentials liberty, in all things love…..The key is correction done in a loving, gentle and humble spirit indicating a realization that we all see but dimly, and are not perfect in our morality or theology. Thankfully God does not condemn us in the same way many others do. There is NEVER a place for religious pride or arrogance, for God opposes the proud regardless of his theology. I think this is what CREATIVE was addressing if I may be presumptuous because of comments below on this thread that were not in a spirit of love. They will know we are Christians by our love, not are ability to argue theology in such a manner.
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 3:07pm@ Creativethinker,
Wrong! Try thinking again.
Our job as Christians is not to “agree to disagree.” Our job is to speak the truth in love. Speaking the truth in love still requires speaking the truth.
We are not to reject politics as worldly, or secular or beneath Christians. Politics is how God uses governments to bless people. We find ourselves supporting or opposing certain political parties because of the beneficial or detrimental political policies they support.
Although God does not “ride the backs of donkeys and elephants,” political parties more or less align themselves with God’s standards. It just so happens that the Republicans are more closely aligned with God’s standards than the Democrats.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 4:06pm@ DOGTAGS…you misunderstood the point of CREATIVES post, it was to PAUL and it was an admonition that upon disputable matters and nonessentials of salvation that we are to have a humble and charitable spirit toward one another. Not an arrogant, demeaning and proud spirit toward one another. Take a lQQk at all of PAULs posts and you will get the jist of what CREATIVE was communicating. It had nothing to do with politics.
Report Post »Paul
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 3:11amThat is truely sad thayt you feel that way but that is your right …
Report Post »gac1218
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 1:22pm@ sleaz I did not miss his point at all. I simply responded to it according to scripture, which people seem to denegrate when it doesn’t line up with their views. Jesus argued theology constantly with the church/ pharisees of his time, by bringing scriptural correction. Should he have just agreed to disagree? What I addressed was a christian using rationalizations as scripture. I agreed with his premise of the tone of responses being rather harsh for those who claim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. No offense was intended. Sorry.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 2:15pm@ GA….I meant no offense either nor did I think you meant any my freind. I actually completely agree with you about debating scripture and its truth. Heavens that is all I do on here. I just meant on disputablre matters, which is what was the issue in this context we should have a very humble and gentle spirit in our conversation. That is all I meant. I think we essentially are agreeing with one another. And I sure hope you didn’t take my response as being anything but engaging. YOu have a blessed day and thank you for your comment. I agree with it!
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 3:46pm@ GA…I completely agree with what you stated. I think we both agree actually but this media on the Blaze is hard to communicate sometimes. I was taking the angle that we should agree to disagree on disputable matters as Paul asserts. In my opinion eschatology is a disputable matter with no bearing on ones salvation. That was my only point. Of course we should argue the truth of scripture, Jesus and all the Apostles did nothing less. Please forgive me if I came across in any way that was less than courteous or kind. You have not offended me in the slightest, so you have nothing to apology for my frined. God bless and have a good day…
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 3:59pm@ GA…for some reason my posts are not appearing….Please don’t apologize. You have nothing to apologize for. Forgive me if I was in anyway less than kind. We both agree with one another I think. I just didn’t want to have such tone over disputable matters as Paul the apostle said. I believe eschatology is a disputable matter not impacting ones salvation. Otherwise I agree with everything you said.. God bless and have a great day…
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 5:10pmWeird. Now all of them appear. sorry for the repeats. Darn Blaze…they really mess with my head sometimes on how long posts take to appear…
Report Post »gac1218
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:38amThank you Tony Evans for truth. When are we, as true christians, going to truly understand that our only choice is God as directed through his word? Isaiah 30 12-14 shows us the condition of America, and the Humpty Dumpty warning.” Because you have rejected my message, relied on oppression and depended on deceit, this sin will become for you like a high wall, cracked and bulging, that collapses suddently, in an instant. It will break in pieces like pottery, shattered mercilessly so that there is not one usable b piece left.” The government apart from God cannot fix us, it only adds to the burden of the cracking and bulging wall. The cure is in vs. 15 ” In repentance and rest (trusting God) is your salvation (wall repair), in quietness (listening to god) and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.” We need a wholesale return to God, thru Jesus Christ or the wall that we call our country will collapse, and in will be so shattered that it will never be the same again. Faith is about doing what God says even when it doesn’t make sense. That’s where he works, not in your rationalizations of the lesser of 2 evils, or doing things even through the popular opinion of the, so called, church. The true Church is John 14: 23. ” If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching, ….. he who does not love me will not obey my teaching.” If this is a burden to you then you are deceived. This is the greatest privelege in the universe, to serve your creator thru obedience.
Report Post »In That Day
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:25pmWell, how of the preacher who points his boney finger at his sheep and says, “Mankind is fallen! Mankind is born in sin!….. Now tithe to me! (Moohaha, moo ha ha!)”
So I quote you now: “Because you have rejected my message, relied on oppression and depended on deceit”…
James Madison said all leaders are NOT angels. This man’s preaching style is to have very little self-awareness for himself and his sheep.
True revival will happen when preachers finally say, “All mankind is fallen, and brother: Watch your deceitful cleric and political leaders! Watch me! Verify, check all leaders!”
True revival will happen when Evangelical Church leaders confess they use the cheap stage hypnotism tricks to dumb-down audiences to never apply lessons learned back on leadership!
Hence, Newsweek’s “We are all Socialists Now”… happened because preachers never say they have taken advantage as leaders (which they certainly have!) and the dumbed-down sheep agree… which also makes them agree to Socialism, voting tribal, and voting for Obama.
Better black preachers would say that Tribalism (in voting) is the scourge of mankind, and American pastors can do better than that! Forget skin color! Vote for the man who says “All leaders must be watched!”
That is the legacy of our Founders that 1st preachers (and 2nd politicians) conveniently forget!
Preachers forget to demand sheep question their authority!
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:07amExcellent, Dr. Evans! I’ve studied the Word under your daughter and been most blessed as well as impressed with how Priscilla describes her parenting and being raised in the Church. Well done, Sir!
Report Post »txblaze
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:01amI appreciate Tony redirecting our thinking to spiritual things. In some ways America has become our god. Being patriotic has become what we worship. People will willingly get involved with political things but how many churches have to beg people to serve in sunday school or other ministries? Our job as believers is to tell others about Christ, our King wants us to bring others into the kingdom. We are more worried about the future of America than we are about souls going to hell. The woes of American government has not taken God by surprise. And, as Tony said, if God is our problem then we must first start with making Him happy.
Report Post »In That Day
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:19amWhat if God wanted the consciousness, the self-awareness, the spirit of people to ascend? To climb much higher! To think better!
Then God would want us to be aware when TheBigManPreacher says “You-Should-Do-This!“ we should have a filter before ”amening” all said.
This preacher uses cheap thought, cheap means & cheap sermonizing to get agreement & amens.
God wants GOOD Democrats, GOOD Republicans, GOOD citizens.
This preacher was saying, basically, “don’t worry about learning the Tragic View of Western Philosophy! Just worry ’bout GAWD!” (And the audience is relieved from responsibility!)
But Dr. Larry Arnn of Hillsdale is wiser. There is a) one God above us all and b) One philosophy, which is the “Tragic View” of Civil Society (stating preachers & leaders are self-dealing, self-interested, unless checked!)
Extreme Muslims want to force us to believe d) one God is Allah and e) Sharia Law is civil philosophy. For 100 years Progressives force us to believe e) no God is above and f) society’s philosophy kills Natural Law, because anything goes.
Now these points a through f are not taught by such a preacher as this. Instead, he naively says a) There is one God and fahgit everything else!
But Glenn Beck teaches “a & b” and explains Progressivism’s “e&f” and Muslim’s “c&d” are bad.
God wants our brains engaged, and uplifted.
The Mind of Christ is not dumb, dumb sermons fall short.
Report Post »ChildofJesus
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 7:15amIt‘s obvious Jesus is not republican or democrat He’s I Am, his kingdom is not of this world. The donkey he rode on symbolized humilty the dems donkey means exactly what donkeys usually are; stubborn.
Report Post »walt1958
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:41amNo Jesus is not a Republican or a Democrat but he does not believe in killing babies with our tax money or any other ways of paying for it, he does not agree with same sex marriage, so right now there is one party that is teaching these things, I am not and will never be part of a party that believes in those and many other things that God is not pleased with. Between the ACLU and the Atheist and the media they want God as far away from America than they can get him. People of the Christian Faith it is time to take a stand and be proud to be a Christian and get back to serving God instead of 4-wheelers, boats, an all the Worldly things that have stop people from Worshiping our Father in heaven.It is time to get back to the basic of Christianity.
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 6:27amWait a minute. Jesus rode a donkey, and Brahma rode an elephant. So, if you are either a Christian or a Hindu, this guy is full of crap.
Report Post »charlieb58
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:16amDo you not get that it was a figure of speech???? Just like a liberal, never mind the actual problem, let’s get them sidetracked on a non-issue!!!!!! This world is in TROUBLE!!!!!!
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 2:52pmDid you not get this was humour? Geez,…
Report Post »Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:15amThe disciples came to Jesus and said some were preaching Christ in desension. Jesus told the disciples to leave them be. The important issue is the gospel and living a loving and righteous life. The rest is secondary. Most Christians claim to be loving but do not follow Jesus example and take up the cross and deny yourself.
Report Post »Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:12amURGENT NOTICE – Most preacher need fired. They are slient in the pulpit on the hot button issues. What have they said about boots on the ground issues like not shopping at pro homosexual companies like JC Penny, Target, Home Depot, Amazon, or using Google. ZERO. They are silent. There’s no excuse for this milk toast ***** foot preachers. We need manly men in the pulpits with a strong voice of reason and a Godly agenda not some pipe dream mini sermon every week. Where are the men of God in our pulpits. There few left. Most are weak and sickly and some are false teachers. The flock is asleep at the wheel. Fire everyone of them that can not take a serious stand for God. Wake up Christians.
Report Post »Brother Winston Smith
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:23amHere’s one who is a PATRIOTIC WARRIOR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY3H9le_FtI
Chuck Baldwin was also the Constitution Party’s candidate in 08. I voted for him over the “better evil” THAT LOST, and would do so a thousands times more.
I wonder… was he included in republican Beck’s Christian lineup? I know republican Beck WOULD NOT interview him in 08.
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 3:55amNo if you look at Chucks website he has videos against Beck. He used to like him but he now thinks he is a sellout to the NWO.
Report Post »child of the King
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:33amI have to agree with your comments about some pastors but put a different spin on it. Alot of, but not all pastors now days aren’t preaching fiery sermons,the type that will spiritually speaking, step on your toes. Instead they preach feel good sermons on the grounds they don’t want to offend anyone in their congregation, especially their big money contributers. Thank god we still have some pastors out there that will still preach what GOD want‘s them to preach instead of what man want’s them to preach.
Report Post »In the O.C.
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:56amFor what it’s worth, the issue you are mentioning while truthful neglects to mention one point. In my heart of hearts, and based on my understanding of the Word of God – the Bible – and not some extraneous texts added later on for whatever reason – I believe these to be the “last days”. As we see more and more pastor/teachers becoming less and less willing to speak the Truth, we will see more and more of what you describe. This is another Sign of the Times. Just stay close to God – all of you. Read the Bible – try to memorize as much as you can – and pray for yourselves, your families, and that God in His infinite mercy and love will protect you and yours. And get ready. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
Report Post »In That Day
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:50pmThis Dr. Tony Evans speaks emotionally, and what he says actually contradicts the basis of Glenn Beck, which is conservative talk radio.
Conservative talk radio has elevated the mentalities of Americans for 30 years, whereas this rehash of a dumb sermon never fails to blinker people. (People couldn’t get up an question the contradictions of simple-minded churchianity platitudes vs. cogent, discourse of Founder’s Principles.)
Folks, our Founders had better preaching than this!
As Dr. Larry Arnn, President of Hillsdale College says: We have a) one God above us all and b) we have one universal philosophy of Civil Society, and that philosophy is Western Enlightenment.
Our Founders understood the need for a pluralistic society in which the right fights the left, which is supposed to be so that neither side enjoys absolute power, which is absolutely corrupting.
Basically, this preacher has enjoyed absolutely no correction which has corrupted his thinking somewhat (if not absolutely.)
Churchianity must preach, as James Madison wrote, that ALL leaders are not angels, and need to be checked against self-dealing. This preacher’s veiled self-dealing is to cut out faith in great minds, like Republican A. Lincoln, who freed the slaves! Or Democrat Harry Truman who began the victory against Communism.
This preacher basically told athletes they don’t have to train. Great, except the athletes will lose.
Report Post »In That Day
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:03amIf Dr. Tony Evans was more ascendant spiritually and humble in his approach he might have said, Preachers need to confess we have been mighty self-serving and in being self-serving, we dumbed down our sheep so they wouldn’t see our self-service!
And in this day and age, leaders need to ‘fess up that all leaders have self-dealing motives, and all followers of leaders must watch their leader’s other hand!
This is the story of Fallen Man. Cheap preachers have pointed boney fingers at sheep and said, “YOU are Fallen! Now, TITHE!!!!” This is a self-interested leader masking his own fallen condition and hiding his self-interest.
It turns out Western Civil Society fights self-interest really well. Better than Progressive solutions or Sharia Law solutions. So we in Churchianity need to defend Western Civil Society and use its self-correcting memes, tropes, lines and precepts to fix our Corrupt Church System that makes rubes!
But our preacher didn’t preach this self-correcting sermon! No, he gave sheep a pass on learning politics and Founder’s Principles and learning from conservative talk radio. He dumbed-down the sheep, and that is a sin. It is even anti-christ.
Truly ascendant spirits in God understand Western philosophy actually is from the mind of God. It is an alternate path that can correct an uncorrectable church system.
But such preacher hate prophets, and won’t listen. ’til In That Day.
Report Post »Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:10amMost preacher need fired. They are slient in the pulpit on the hot button issues. What have they said about boots on the ground issues like not shopping at pro homosexual companies like JC Penny, Target, Home Depot, Amazon, or using Google. ZERO. They are silent. There’s no excuse for this milk toast ***** foot preachers. We need manly men in the pulpits with a strong voice of reason and a Godly agenda not some pipe dream mini sermon every week. Where are the men of God in our pulpits. There few left. Most are weak and sickly and some are false teachers. The flock is asleep at the wheel. Fire everyone of them that can not take a serious stand for God. Wake up Christians.
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:47pmDr. Tony Evans said: “God does not ride the backs of donkeys and elephants,” he proclaimed. “Your job is to represent another king in another kingdom.”
Dr. Evans must have forgotten this verse:
Mark 11:7: Then they brought the donkey to Jesus and threw their garments over it, and Jesus sat on it and rode into Jerusalem.
The God of the Bible does ride a donkey.
Report Post »Belchfire V-8
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 1:04amNot the donkey of Washington.
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 5:38am@ BELCHFIRE V-8- A donkey by any other name is still a donkey. By the way, it is beneath the dignity of God to ride a donkey, for that matter any animal therefore, Jesus cannot be God.
Report Post »gac1218
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:00amYour rationalization that Jesus can’t be God because he stoops so low as to ride a donkey is pure twisting of scripture as Satan did with Jesus in the wilderness (Matthew 4). In fact the event was was prophesied in Zechariah 9:9, and the other 300 prophecies that were fulfilled with Jesus’ birth, life, death and ressurection, further prove he was the Messiah. If you want to use scripture then please validate it with the full council of God’s word and not the manipulation of it.
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 11:55am@ GAC1218- You have made several mistakes in your response to my thread. It is beneath the dignity of God to ride an animal. Jesus being a man can ride whatever animal he chooses to ride. You mentioned that 300 prophesies were fulfilled during Jesus’ lifetime, my question to is, what about the big fish that got away? The one prophesy that was not fulfilled in Matt 12:38-40.
You also said: “further prove he was the Messiah.” I never said Jesus was not the Messiah, Jesus is the Messiah however, the word “Messiah” does not mean God. It means “one who is chosen, appointed, or anointed.” If you’re inferring that Jesus is God because he is the Messiah then you might want to learn the definition of a word(s) before you try to correct someone else. Beelzebub was good at misusing words too.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 8:24pm@ SURHAN…..How do you figure that Jesus did not fulfill Matt 12:38? It was a symbolic picture of his death and resurrection which was fulfilled. And the Pharisees of Jesus day certainly understood him to claim that he was in fact God.
“Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!” 58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
The reason they wanted to stone Jesus was because of his use of the words “I am”, which was a title strictly reserved for God. Paul certainly Identified Jesus as divine and Peter acknowledged Paul’s writings as scripture and as a fellow apostle to the gentiles. Jesus, did in fact claim to be God. This is why he was crucified. Thomas declared upon seeing the resurrected Christ, “my Lord and my God”, without correction from Jesus. So the disciples clearly viewed him as divine and his enemies understod him to claim divinity as well. Indeed your argument falls apart upon examination of the Scrip
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 2:24am@ SLEAZYHIPPOS- You make the same mistake ALL Christians make when it comes to whether or not Jesus claimed divinity. If Jesus is God he would have said so. When the Jews picked up stones to stone him, if Jesus was God, he would’ve said, throw your stones because I am God. But he didn’t say that, he ducked out of sight. the phrase “I am”, and/or “I am God” are not the same. Peter, in the book of Acts 2:22 confirms that Jesus is a man.
When Thomas said; “my lord, my god” to Jesus, he wasn’t calling Jesus lord or god, Thomas was using what you Americans call figure of speech. That is why he was not corrected by Jesus when he used that phrase. In Great Britain, in their courts of law, they refer to the judge as “my lord” are they calling the judge God? No, this is their language, this is how they use speech. In South Africa, on the doors to their public restrooms they use to have signs on the doors that read “Lords” for the men’s restrooms and “Lady’s” for the female’s restrooms. Does the word “Lords” means that these toilets were reserved for God? Of course not, God doesn’t go to the toilet, He doesn’t excrete. This is figure of speech for South Africans.
Jesus never claimed to be God, nor did he say, God and I are one and the same. Now, about this big fish that got away in Matt 12:38-40. The Jews come to Jesus because they had heard that this man was claiming to be a man of God. So they asked Jesus to prove…
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 3:09am@ SLEAZYHIPPOS- …he was a bonafide man of God, so they asked Jesus to show them a sign. Some Bible translations call it a miraculous sign. What it means is, they wanted Jesus to perform a miracle to prove to them he was sent by God. Never mind that he had already turned water to wine. Never mind that he had healed those born blind and the lepers. Never mind that he had walked on water. Never mind he had cursed a fruit tree and the tree had withered and died. All these things were meaningless to them. This was not the first time a man of God was asked to perform tricks in order for him to prove himself. But this shock Jesus up, he was upset at his followers for asking him to perform like a trained elephant, and he said “an evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, and there shall be no sign (meaning miracle) given to it. Except, the sign (meaning miracle) of Jonah. For as Jonah (meaning like Jonah) was three days and three nights, in the belly of the fish, so shall the son of man be, three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”
Was Jonah dead or alive inside the fish? Everyone, agrees that Jonah was alive! How was Jesus inside that tomb, was he dead or alive? All of chritendom says he was dead! Is that like Jonah or unlike Jonah? Jesus said he would be like Jonah, yet, you Christians say he was unlike Jonah. Whose lying you or Jesus?
If a man is inside the belly of a fish for three days…
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 3:31am@ SLEAZYHIPPOS- …and three nights, he ought to die. If he dies, no miracle. If he doesn’t die, it’s a miracle. With the heat and suffocation inside the big fish, Jonah ought to have died but he didn’t. For three days and three nights the fish carries Jonah around his belly alive. The fish vomits Jonah out on the seashore alive. Jonah never died! Jesus said my miracle is the miracle of Jonah, so was Jesus dead or alive inside the sepulchral? I’ll leave it up to you (Sleazyhippos or anyone else) to supply the answer?
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 9:13am@ SURHAN….My friend you don’t know what you are saying “I am” is the name God gave himself to Moses in the OT. “I am” or Yahweh is God and it is the name Jesus used in the verse I posted. As far as what Jesus would have done when stones were picked up was an illogical inference and an assumption to know the mind and will of God. Acts 2:22 simply confirms exactly my belief that Jesus was a man and also fully devine. As Paul indicates in Phil 2
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death —
even death on a cross!
I am going to church and will continue to respond to your posts if you will be patient with me before you respond further thank you…..
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 2:29pm@ SURHAN….First thank you for your patient in letting me get back to you. I appreciate it very much. To pick up then with the last point. Jesus is both known as the Son of man and the Son of God which fits very nicely with the fact that Jesus was both fully man and fully divine as both your scriptural refernce and mine illuminate.
Secondly, while it is true that lord can in a generic sense mean simply a recognition of authroity, the fact it is coupled with “my God” explains the nature of this phrase. In the original language the same word used by Thomas occurs over 135 times in the Bible, and wen spoken by a Jew always refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (YHWH). So to suggest that thomas said my Lord and my God was meant to denote less than that meaning would be to go against that words use in every other instance in the Bible. So by your own argument we must lQQk to the culture and the ordinary use to determine its meaning, which in this case is quite clear and argues against your conclusion.
You stated the following, “his was not the first time a man of God was asked to perform tricks in order for him to prove himself.” Was raising the dead a trick? Jesus raised Lazarus before many witnesses and the little girl? In fact Nicodemus argues against your assertion when he a Pharisee stated, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.” CONTINUED…..
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 2:42pm@ SURHAN…..You asked, “Was Jonah dead or alive inside the fish? Everyone, agrees that Jonah was alive! How was Jesus inside that tomb, was he dead or alive? All of chritendom says he was dead! Is that like Jonah or unlike Jonah? Jesus said he would be like Jonah, yet, you Christians say he was unlike Jonah. Whose lying you or Jesus?”
This is just poor hermeneutics with regard to your interpretation. Jesus’ body was dead, but His spirit was very much alive. The symbolic picture contained within the story of Jonah was that to the watching world Jonah very much appeared dead to witnesses as he was engulfed by the fish ( you yourself testify to this fact that it was only by a miracle that he was kept alive). In the same manner to the onlQQkers Jesus appeared dead to the world. But just like Jonah, in a miraculous way both were still alive as jonah being spit out of the fish was symbolic of Jesus bodily resurrection back from the grave. Death had no ultimate power over him to hold him (any more than the fish had the power to take Jonah’s life) because he was the guiltless Son of God. There is no trouble or difficulty here at all my friend. It was fulfilled in a very logical way. Your are committing the fallacy of isogesis with your application of hermeneutics. Jesus even proclaimed on the cross, “Into thy hands do I commit my Spirit.” The explanation is actually quite simple and uncomplicated despite your assertion. Thank you ahead and thanks for your patie
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 4:04pm@ SURHAN..First thank you for your patient in letting me get back to you. I appreciate it very much. To pick up then with the last point. Jesus is both known as the Son of man and the Son of God which fits very nicely with the fact that Jesus was both fully man and fully divine as both your scriptural refernce and mine illuminate.
Secondly, while it is true that lord can in a generic sense mean simply a recognition of authroity, the fact it is coupled with “my God” explains the nature of this phrase. In the original language the same word used by Thomas occurs over 135 times in the Bible, and wen spoken by a Jew always refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (YHWH). So to suggest that thomas said my Lord and my God was meant to denote less than that meaning would be to go against that words use in every other instance in the Bible. So by your own argument we must lQQk to the culture and the ordinary use to determine its meaning, which in this case is quite clear and argues against your conclusion.
You stated the following, “his was not the first time a man of God was asked to perform tricks in order for him to prove himself.” Was raising the dead a trick? Jesus raised Lazarus before many witnesses and the little girl? In fact Nicodemus argues against your assertion when he a Pharisee stated, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.” CONTINUED…..
SurhanSurhan
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 9:03pm@ SLEAZYHIPPOS- Your assertion that Jesus is God Because he said “I am” shows that your understanding of the scripture is deficient. Your only knowledge of God is what you have read in the Christian Bible. In order to have a better understanding of what is meant by “I am” you need to get a hold of a Hebrew Bible not a translation that you have. In the Hebrew Bible Moses says to God; “when I go back to the people to tell them about you, they are going to want to know who sent me…whom shall I tell them sent me…what shall I say?” God said to Moses; “look, don’t waste time with things like that, just tell them “I am, whatever I am…I am, what I am”
In another section of the Bible, the Jews that were out to arrest Jesus came to him and asked him; “are you Jesus”…Jesus said, “I am.” Does that mean Jesus is saying he’s God? No, it does not.
When Jesus raised Lazarus from death, he used that occasion to prove to the crowd standing by watching, and to Christians today, that he is not God. He goes to the village where Lazarus lives and he meets Lazarus’ sisters Martha, and Mary. They tell him our brother has died. “If you had been here, you could have saved our brother from dying.” Jesus says; “even now, if you have faith, you shall see the glory of God.” This is a reference to Acts 2:22. Jesus is not doing these things, It is God working through him.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 11:47pm@ SURHAN….Get a Hebrew bible? What in the world do you think the OT is? Your argument about what God told Moses is way out there my friend. It isn’t even close to reality. I think you need to lQQk into the facts a little closer my friend.
You stated, “In another section of the Bible, the Jews that were out to arrest Jesus came to him and asked him; “are you Jesus”…Jesus said, “I am.” Does that mean Jesus is saying he’s God? No, it does not.” First please reference where this occurred and apparently you do not know the original language because Jesus used the sameword God did with Moses. It is very difficult to have a meaningful conversation when someone is being intellectually dishonest about the reality and facts because they have a preconceived idea baout something and therefore twist everything to fit their notion. That is called isogesis and it is a fallacy of interpretation. Besides Jesus before Abraham was, I am, so that is completely contrary to your assertion as Jesus clearly indicates his eternal nature by claiming he existed before Abraham and used the same title that God did with Moses.
CONTINUED…..
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 11:52pm@ SURHAN….Finally your assertion that God merely worked through Jesus and Jesus was not God runs counter to what the conversation between Jesus and Martha in the context of this very story.
“Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?” 27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
The term Son of God is the exact same phrasing that was used when Jesus was on tril before the Sanhedrin. During His trial before the Jewish leaders, the High Priest demanded of Jesus, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matthew 26:63). “’Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied. ‘But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven’” (Matthew 26:64). The Jewish leaders responded by accusing Jesus of blasphemy (Matthew 26:65-66). Later, before Pontius Pilate, “The Jews insisted, ‘We have a law, and according to that law He must die, because He claimed to be the Son of God’” (John 19:7). Why would His claiming to be the Son of God be considered blasphemy and be worthy of a death sentence? CONTINUED…..
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 29, 2012 at 11:53pm@ SURHAN…. The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase “Son of God.” To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is “of God.” The claim to be of the same nature as God—to in fact be God—was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death, in keeping with Leviticus 24:15. Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being.”
Thank you for your time…..
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on July 30, 2012 at 3:49am@ SLEAZYHIPPOS- Again, your understanding of Matt 12:38-40 is deficient. First, let get an understanding of what the Jews wanted from Jesus, they wanted him to perform a miracle right there before their very eyes. Lets agree that the definition of a miracle is; an impossible thing that can’t be done, if you do it, you have performed a miracle. For example, if you, or I, are sitting in a room with other people and a person kills over and dies, and there’s a doctor in the room that exams the dead person, and the doctor declares that person dead, and you are I says to the dead person; come back to life, in the name of God, and the person wakes up from death, we have performed a miracle. If a person has been dead for a year, and is brought back to life, that’s a greater miracle than the previous miracle because the person has been dead for a longer period of time. So, the greater the impressibility, the greater the miracle. If a person has been dead for a thousand years and is brought back to life in the name of God, this is an even greater miracle, because the impossibility has increased.
Jonah is tossed into a raging sea, he ought to have died, he didn’t die, this is a miracle. a fish comes along and gobbles him up and takes him around the sea inside its belly for three days and three nights. Jonah ought to have died. he didn’t die, another miracle. After three days and three nights Jonah is vomited out of the…
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on July 30, 2012 at 4:32am@ SLEAZYHIPPOS- …fish. This is a miracle of a miracle of a miracle! Its a miracle three times over! At each and every turn when we thought Jonah ought to have died he is still alive! Jesus is saying my miracle is the miracle of Jonah, for as Jonah was (meaning like Jonah), so shall the son of man be. Jesus is saying to them and to us today. When you think that I am dead, I will not be dead, it will appear that I am dead but I will be alive. This was the only miracle he was prepared to give them. The miracle of Jonah.
You said: “But just like Jonah, in a miraculous way both were still alive as jonah being spit out of the fish was symbolic of Jesus bodily resurrection back from the grave.”
With all do respect this is double talk. Jesus was never placed in a grave, beneath the ground. He was placed in a sepulchral, which is a big roomy chamber. Reverend Jim Bishop, in his book, ‘The Life of Christ’ describes it as a room 5 feet wide, 7 feet high, 15 feet deep with a ledge or ledges in it. I say this is plenty of room for his followers to get him out of sight to dress his wounds and be off the streets before the start of the Sabbath.
You said Jesus was alive (which makes him like Jonah) and then in the same breath you say he was dead (which would make him unlike Jonah), when he said he would be like Jonah. There’s nothing miraculous about a symbolism. The Jews wanted a miracle and Jesus gave them one.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 30, 2012 at 8:47am@ SURHAN….Thank you for your time first of all. The story of Jonah was meant to be a foreshadowing of the death and resurrection of Christ. In you analyzing of the story you are using very poor hermeneutics, with all due respect, to reach your conclusions about Jesus not fulfilling what he said he would. He simply drew an illustration from the story of Jonah to state that the sign that would clearly indicate he was who he stated to be was his resurrection as no man has come back from the grave. And I know perfectly well what Jesus was buried in. Back from the grave is a phrase that menas back from death. It is no different then when you pointed out the word lord can have several connotations. In the same way you want to take liberty with what Thomas said but then hold me to something different when it doesn”t suit your argument. In the same way you seem perfectly able to justify what Thomas clearly stated by claiming it was a common phrase or manner of speaking, however, you seem to want to be very literal in your assessment of Jesus fulfilling Matt 12. It is highly illogical to do my friend. Finally, I see you haven’t addressed any of the problems I have outlined with your arguments from what Thomas proclaimed (and what it really means), to what Martha proclaimed, to what “I am” really means, to the fact that Jesus was crucified for claiming he was God, to the scriptures that clearly point to the fact that Jesus was seen as the Son of man and Son of God. T
Report Post »iwillnotbequiet
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:32pmThis old white gal fell in love today…Tony Evens is a true gift. I loved all those that spoke today..you could feel the love. Thank you Glenn for bring all these amazing man and women together for us to hear. And thanks for making it so that those of us unable to be there could share.. I have a plan I’m working on and hope to have help soon.. Nothing feels as good as helping those that CAN’T help themselves.
Report Post »Creativethinker
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:05pmGod has always taken out his people when he has poured out judgement. He took Noah out(spared him from the judgement) and he took Lot out . Why would he not take his people out?
Report Post »Paul
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:18pmNo wonder “The World Will Be Decieved.”
Wow…
Report Post »Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:11amLook the important issue is salvation. Pre or Post trib. is not the end of the world for a Christian.
Report Post »Paul
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 1:58am@PROS
Yes it you want to wait a thousand years to find out … This is really , really sad , what the so called churches have done to God’s people .. Too stupid to read and think for yourselves….
You have a loud name and a loud atitude and it seems to end there … Good night.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:40am@ PAUL…. I find your tone and arrogance toward others offensive (if you are really what you say you are). Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees my friend….Religious pride and hypocrisy are dangerous. Jesus said to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. You are persecuting those who are not your enemies and demeaning them. Eschatological views ar not a prerequisite for salvation. Your hard heart is deceiving you and your pride is blinding you to it. I sure hope you do some reflecting on your posts, your attitude, and pray for a change in both. Good day.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:49am@ PAUL……Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity (love), I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity (love), I am nothing —- Paul the Apostle
Report Post »Creativethinker
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:44pmRevelations 4:1 After this I looked,and behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me which said,Come up hither, and I will show you things which must be hereafter. My understanding of “hereafter” is after the church is taken up. The Tribulation is mainly about bringing the Jews to Jesus.
Report Post »Paul
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:16pmSorry…
Fail.
Report Post »chjaka
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:36pmThe demonic teaching called Pre-Trib Rapture is one of the most evil doctrines within the Church today.
Report Post »chjaka
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:47pmThis is moral equivalence crap from the pulpit no less ! Disgusting!
Report Post »While the Republican party is corrupt, equating it in any way with the abject WICKEDNESS of the Demonrat party and our Precedent is just a bunch of BS.
Of course the Church needs to clean house and look within first, but give me a break.
If the Church is the ref.s on the field, well then one team is spitting, swearing, carrying knives, etc while the other is at least mouthing some respect for the game.
chjaka
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:55pmGuys like this are actually a part of the problem.
Report Post »Failure to stand up and point out the evil of abortion, gay rights (gay preference), hate crimes, minority racism run rampant, etc all mainly emanating from the Demonrat party reflects the corruption and cowardice of the Church.
artman54
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:40pmany man of God is a good man.
Report Post »Thanks
Brother Winston Smith
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:14pmTony Evans,
Report Post »You have been one of my favorites for years. It breaks my heart to see you mixed up in such a FAKE-TEA, FAKE-conservative, FAKE-Christian, LEFTIST REPUBLICAN rally.
Paul
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:29pmYou sure are not MY brother …
Change your name idiot.
Report Post »Brother Winston Smith
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:51pmWhat a very… FAKE-Christian thing to say, Paul.
Report Post »Paul
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:15pmYou seem to have a distord few of a True Christian that will not take crap from Ilk like you and your kind.. You must have me mixed up with those people that are lied to every Sunday if not more, much more….
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:26amBut I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.. — Jesus
Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. — James
Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. — James
With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. —- James
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:32am@ PAUL….in KJV if you like or I can type out the original language if you prefer?
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. —- James
Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! — James
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. —- James
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. — Jesus
Report Post »earthbonz
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:04pmWell said, Doctor. 10 out of 10 doctors agree, Truth wins .
Report Post »Max jones
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 9:57pmTraditions of man make void the Word of God.
Report Post »Max jones
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 9:46pmThe only advantage a true believer has is Jesus Christ, and the example he set when he died for our sins. The laodicean church of the 21st century does no longer have this advantage. Earthly concerns have overtaken His house. Like a thief in the night, remember?
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 9:15pmI have been to tony’s Church many times. He is a wonderful man. And his son can sing like there is no tomorrow…
Report Post »jwt
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 9:07pmif you want protection from the flue, you get a flue shot with a dead bug. If you want protect man from a live Christ inject a dead Christ as most churches do today.
Report Post »Paul
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 9:18pmI’m glad you can think, they let liars think for them…
http://theseason.yolasite.com/
And you are %100 Correct.
Report Post »Dde13
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 9:37pm@paul
Report Post »Amen…..good post
Jesus said:
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. (Matthew 7:13, 14 NIV)
Max jones
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:00pmPaul. thanks for the link….check out Arnold Murray, Pastor of the Shepard’s Chapel in Gravitt, Ark. He knows.
Report Post »Max jones
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:06pmIt is time…..http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/currentedition1.htm
Report Post »Paul
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:06pm@DDE13
Be careful of the NIV … Cross Ref, KJV And Ezek 13:20
NIV
20 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against your magic charms with which you ensnare people like birds and I will tear them from your arms; I will set free the people that you ensnare like birds. 21 I will tear off your veils and save my people from your hands, and they will no longer fall prey to your power. Then you will know that I am the Lord. 22 Because you disheartened the righteous with your lies, when I had brought them no grief, and because you encouraged the wicked not to turn from their evil ways and so save their lives, 23 therefore you will no longer see false visions or practice divination. I will save my people from your hands. And then you will know that I am the Lord. ’”
This where GOD say HE against those that teach my children to fly to save their souls (rapture)
Report Post »It’s been tampered with big time, dangerous time, be careful. Use a KJV no later than 3rd addition , in my opinion.
Paul
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:09pm@Max
I will and Thank You…
Report Post »Reclaiming Our Nation
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:31pmMAX JONES,
Thanks for the prophecy watch link….I reviewed it. Lots of good info. I could get lost in all the interesting info.
I ran across this video today regarding the dollar. You may find this interesting.
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI-BIVWlc7A
http://www.reclaimingournation.com
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:31pm@ PAUL….I prefer the original languages over the translated KJV…….Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 11:05amThese are the facts about Arnold Murray…….
http://www.watchman.org/profile/murraypro.htm
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 4:45pmFirst let me state I am Amillennial in my theology and understanding of scripture concerning eschatology.
Mr. Murray also emphasizes, and takes dogmatic stands on issues over which Christians can legitimately disagree. One such case pertains to the rapture of the church. According to Murray, Christians who believe in the rapture are cultic, and do not have God’s seal upon them. They will be deceived by Satan during the end times. “Most go along with this cult that teaches the rapture that didn’t start till 1830, but it’s growing into the largest cult in the worlds”. (The Shepherd’s Chapel Questions and Answers period, aired ~16-91) “When this false christ stands in the holy place performing in the sight of Christians, the pretribulation rapture Christian shall think it is Christ come to rapture them away”. (Our Statement of Faith, p.2) Murray’s statement, however, is fallacious. Christianity has always believed in a literal rapture by which the saints would be transformed and removed from this earth to meet Christ in the air, not on the earth. Since the Antichrist (who will live on the earth, not in the air) will not be able to literally transform their bodies nor cause them to disappear from the earth, there is simply no way Christians will follow such a man, nor believe he is the Christ who has come to rapture them away. CONTINUED…..
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 4:48pmMurray’s statement, however, is fallacious. Christianity has always believed in a literal rapture by which the saints would be transformed and removed from this earth to meet Christ in the air, not on the earth. Since the Antichrist (who will live on the earth, not in the air) will not be able to literally transform their bodies nor cause them to disappear from the earth, there is simply no way Christians will follow such a man, nor believe he is the Christ who has come to rapture them away. It is true that followers of the Antichrist will be strongly deluded, but this delusion is caused by the miracles he and the false prophet perform (2 Thes. 2:9; Rev. 13:1115; 16:13,14; 19:20). But Christians already know that the Antichrist will attempt to delude people by using spectacular miracles. It is virtually inconceivable, then, to think that any believers would follow a man they know fits the criteria of the Antichrist. Mr. Murray bases much of his anti-rapture claim on Dave MacPherson’s research. He claimed that the pretribulation rapture came from a personal revelation of a young girl named Margaret Macdonald in 1830. Actually, there is no hard evidence that J.N. Darby, the pretribulatlon advocate of the 19th century, was influenced by Margaret Macdonald. Second, even if Darby was influenced by Macdonald, this does not necessarily mean that his view was false. As long as he can adequately support his position by Scripture, it does not matter who influenced him.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 4:52pmMy point in posting the 2 previous posts even though I am not a pretrib. guy is to point out the fallacy of Murray and his dogma concerning eschatology. Anyone who would twist the scriptures to suggest that if someone did happen to lean toward pretrib does not have God’s seal upon them, even though they may confess Christ as their Lord and Savior, doesn’t understand what hermeneutics is or how to use its prinicples properly. Thank you for your time.
Report Post »freeberty
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 8:53pmWell then, no wonder society is so sick.
Report Post »