‘Embarrassing’ Source of Revenue?: New York Could Institute Speed Cameras
- Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:16pm by
Liz Klimas
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(Image: Wikimedia)
It’s no secret that automatic cameras snapping the license plate numbers of red-light-runners and stop-sign-coasters generates revenue for cities — especially since they’re constantly on and a uniformed officer is not actively monitoring and getting paid to catch the would-be traffic offenders.
Danny Rodriguez of New York thinks these cameras are fine. But speed cameras? Those go too far for him.
CBS Local for New York reports that lawmakers have introduced a bill, which could pass in the state Senate at the end of the week, to install 40 speed cameras. Although the onus for the cameras is to cut down on speeding and for safety, some wonder whether the government sees them as a cash cow:
“Stop signs and red-lights, I agree with. A little bit over the speed limit? Everyone goes a little over the speed limit once in a while,” [Rodriguez] said.
[...]
“I think it’s embarrassing the city is trying different ways to milk the citizens of this country,” said Danielle Beckforth.
Others interviewed by CBS simply said they would take alternative routes to avoid the speed traps. Only monetary fines will be issued for violations should the bill pass. Points will not be added onto driver’s licenses.
Watch CBS 2′s report:
In October of last year, we reported that one in every five Americans live in a community using for-profit companies to install and operate cameras such as these. In some of these cases, the cities were required to share revenue with these companies generated from the tickets issued, causing some to worry about the potential for quotas.
Robert Sinclair with AAA told WCBS 880 revenue is a motive for installing these cameras. Sinclair also said that it is “impossible for to defend yourself” in court against these cameras, should you challenge your ticket.
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jcwconsult
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 5:14pmIn almost every case, the “speeding problem” disappears IF the posted limits are set to maximize safety. This means you set the posted limit not to any arbitrary number, high or low, but to the ACTUAL 85th percentile speed of free flowing traffic under good conditions. This is the 70+ year old method that tends to produce the safest traffic flow, the smoothest traffic flow, the fewest conflicts between road users, and the lowest accident rate. So, WHY don’t governments set all speed limits this way to create the safest possible environment?
Report Post »It is not profitable. In most cases this means higher posted speed limits, no speed traps, and a LOT lower speeding ticket revenue. Revenue trumps safety for most traffic control laws and their enforcement priorities. The same principle is true for traffic lights to deliberately time the yellows too short for maximum safety and minimum violations so that red light cameras issue more tickets.
See our website for the sciences involved. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association, Ann Arbor, MI
srd275
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 4:58pmNot counting the fact that “speeding” is more a issue of underset speed limits. (see more on proper setting of speed limits. http://www.motorists.org/speed-limits/ )
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/38/3801.asp 5/24/2012
“State Reports Show Speeding Not a Significant Cause of Accidents
Analysis of data from twenty-five states confirms exceeding the speed limit is not a significant cause of accidents.
Out of 2.7 million traffic accidents recorded in twenty-five states over the course of a year, only 1.6 percent were caused by drivers who exceeded the posted speed limit. The figures come from an analysis by TheNewspaper of annual reports typically compiled by each state for use in applying for grant money from the National Highway Transportation Agency (NHTSA).”
What speed scameras are really about is petty policing. Long term they will lower the trigger speeds to keep the loot coming in. In one case in Europe it is as low as 1 km/h (that isUNDER 1 mph. http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/35/3582.asp ).
Heck Spain is actually issuing speed scamera tickets for going too SLOW! http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/35/3523.asp
FIGHT THE PHOTO FRAUD!
Ban the CAMS!
http://www.motorists.org
Report Post »http://www.banthecams.org
and camerafraud on Facebook
kbstreet1
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 12:12pmHow are they going to account for wheelbase if they use sensors on the ground?
Report Post »Tampa Ken
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 10:51amyeah, Traffic light camera’s should be trashed… I agree
and speed camera’s? I watch Top Gear from England.. and on ALOT of shows they Slam the camera’s
they had this one township turn off the speed camera’s to see if accidents etc. would increase.. They didn’t.. they decreased.. Traffic camera’s should be Scraped!
Report Post »country_hick
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 4:41amRadar selects, in order, biggest, closest, fastest. At least that is what they taught us in radar operator class many years ago. As the science has not changed I would assume that that is still the same.
It takes a live person to testify that they identified a vehicle that appeared to be exceeding the speed limit and that the vehicle was the one that was tracked without interference from bigger vehicles in the area, radio interference, etc.
How are you going to question a traffic camera about an unseen tractor/trailer causing a shadowing error? Weather interference? Ham radio interference? What happened to your RIGHT to confront and cross examine your accuser? How are they going to prove that it was the owner operating the vehicle at the time of the alleged offense?
Once again we see something aimed at revenue not safety!
Report Post »AmerNDN10
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 10:43pmI just read in NJ Christie is halting all traffic light cameras. The yellow to red part of the sequence is too short. It’s causing accidents and illegal tickets.
Report Post »Anyhow: I don’t believe in ANY kind of traffic cameras like that. It’s all that “give them an inch they will take miles” and this is what I’m talking about. First we comply with the stop light photo enforcement thinking “ahhh they’ll never go any farther than that” yeah right! :o( they are tryyyying! All this crap has got to stop now!
dasmoondog
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 9:00pmthese
Report Post »speed cams have been ruled unconstitutional and inadmisible as heresay in court violating rule 602 ‘personal knowledge rule’ or civil court procedure…..but i guess these tyrants feel they can do what they want. to bad most of you dont understand thet the ‘transportation code//motor vehicle code‘ applies only to ’motor vehicles’ …see u s code title 18 sec 31 (6) whats the matter with you sheeple? good god!
Sacramento DUI Lawyer
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 8:25pmOur firm does mostly DUI defense, but we also have a grudge match against Red Light Cameras in California. Can they be beat? Depends on the judge and the county. Although it has turned against us lately in Sacramento, we still have close to a 2/3 win rate overall against these. The biggest issue is calibration and storage of data by the private, for-profit, secretive law enforcement company located in AZ. Still, 3 years into my battle, I have yet to cross-examine anyone from Red Flex. 6th amendment right to confront witnesses should have these things get tossed out of court. See SCOTUS decisions Crawford, Davis, Bullcoming, et al.
The fines in most states are low enough to discourage attorneys from getting involved (can’t get enough $$$ for the time involved in the case). California is different. They have the fine so high that a Camera Ticket usually costs upwards of $600 in addition to insurance costs (driver liability, not owner liability). Because of high fine and the insurance, clients come. Down in Southern California, there are three cases that are now finally making their way up to the California Supreme Court. My guess – it’s going up to the SCOTUS and camera-tickets will be held non-exempt from the confrontation clause. If witnesses have to fly from Phoenix, no profit and Big Brother goes out of business :)
By the way, the Equal Protection clause shouldn’t allow discrimination against non-monkey-mask-wearers. These things do NOT improve safety.
Report Post »dasmoondog
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 9:03pmdear sir..im sure you beinf a california att. you should already know of the superior court of san diegos ruling these traffic cams as inadmissable and heresay as they violate rule 602……. not to mention that these ‘laws’ are not even applicable to travlers in their private automobiles as they are not ”driving” or operating a ‘motor vehicle” you dont seem to smart for an att.
Report Post »Sacramento DUI Lawyer
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 12:34amDasmoondog – San Diego Superior Court decisions are binding for San Diego County ONLY. Appellate court decisions on the OC and LA cases are working their way up to the Cal. Sup. Ct.
We have multiple tracks we go down in our standard RLCT motion, including the areas you suggest (I assume you mean FRE 602, not CEC 602), and areas not mentioned in any of these posts. But there is no BINDING precedent in most Nor-Cal counties to force it. If you believe I am wrong and can provide a citation to bind Sac County into dismissing these things, I would love it. Being three years into the fight and having spoken with many other attorneys and RLCT activists, however… I doubt you will have much luck.
Report Post »CommonSenseTalk
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 7:40pmYou would not need any cops. They can make the money they need. Charge you if you want a crime investigated. The family of crimes will have to pay to keep criminals in jail. This is what you have when you mix government into everything.
Keep voting for more and more government. Give away your rights because you don’t have time to get involved.
It is easy to give away your rights but you have to fight like heck to get them back.
Report Post »subsailor
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 7:27pmTraffic ticket cams are patently unconstitutional. A traffic ticket is technically a criminal charge that you can spend time in jail for. You have a right to face your accuser and cross examine them. How can you cross examine a camera???? Has anyone heard of photoshop? The only reason these exist is for revenue generation period. If anyone had the guts and money to run this up to the supreme court it would be a 9 to 0 decision. Governments get away with so much now because people won‘t or can’t challenge it. Bloomberg hasn’t got a leg to stand on in NY city, but will get away with it if he is not challenged. Where is the ACLU on cases that really matter?????
Report Post »Dougral Supports Israel
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 7:08pmAnd yet another reason to avoid NYC.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 6:35pmthat is not bad 50 bucks for over 10 and 100 over 30 that is much less than if a pig stopped you and not only that but harass and even threaten your life. I hate the speed limit but this is much less dangerous way to enforce than some person who believes the home-front is battlefield.
Report Post »Stoic one
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 12:49amWas your intent, when you mentioned the three letter word for swine, to describe law enforcement?
That aside, time and time again, the cash collection assessment always rises – steeply.
And the gov’t goes for the next thing….NYC first salt; sodium-chloride …next? large sugary drinks.
the gov’t never stops….LOOK AT HISTORY!
Report Post »AUsername
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 6:24pmI would rather deal with a camera than militard pyschopath.
Report Post »AUsername
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 6:22pmthe question is would you rather it be true and pay less for it or would you rather argue it from someone with half a brain and a thuggish attitude from the military who decided to become a cop because he didn’t have the mentality or personality for other jobs out there and risk him attacking you and putting you in jail with false charges and paying more for ticket?
i hate the speed limit crap and we should get rid of it, the only purpose of it is to give stupid brutes jobs.
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 6:10pmThese things were installed in several places in New Zealand a few years ago. Despite serious resentment and objection, they remained in operation. One irate motorist even smashed one with a tyre iron (which saw him in front of the beak).
Why did the politicians not listen? Because these things managed to generate about 300 million dollars in one year which, for our little country, is a significant sum. Under strident criticism, the government got all pious about what was criticised as purely cash generation, and said that if New Zealanders didn‘t want to pay then they shouldn’t speed.
The effect on the road toll? A look at the stats over a long period shows no statistically significant difference.
Politicians care about three things in this order:
1. Votes
Report Post »2. Money
3. Everything else
nzkiwi
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 6:18pmI forgot to add that, if somebody else is driving your car, guess who is still fined.
Go ahead. Guess.
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 9:29pmI have to amend that last post on checking (which I should have done first). A photo of the driver is sent and if it is not the owner then they require the identity of the driver in order to fine him or her. So the owner has to dob in the friend.
Not that this makes it any better.
Report Post »