Episcopal Bishops Approve Trial Blessing for Gay Couples & Clear the Way for Transgender Ordination
- Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:23am by
Billy Hallowell
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(The Blaze/AP) — Episcopal bishops approved an official prayer service for blessing same-sex couples Monday at a national convention that also cleared the way for transgender ordination.
At the Episcopal General Convention in Indianapolis, the House of Bishops voted 111-41, with three abstentions, to authorize a provisional rite for same-sex unions for the next three years. The liturgy next goes to convention’s deputies for their authorization.
(Related: Episcopal Church Releases Proposed Gay Marriage Rites)
In a separate vote Monday, the full convention approved new anti-discrimination language for transgendered clergy candidates and church members. Some dioceses already ordain transgendered people or elect them to positions of parish leadership. However, advocates for the amendment argued they needed an explicit statement of acceptance as the churchwide policy.
The Rev. Carla Robinson, who is transgendered and a vicar of All Saints Church in Seattle, said she was lucky to have the backing of parishes and bishops when she was considering ordination, but she said others haven’t had the same support.
Rev. Carla Robinson (Image Credit: CarlaRobinson.com)
“I stand here as a priest today because my diocese specifically said that my gender identity and expression didn’t disqualify me from the discernment process,” Robinson said from the floor of the convention. “I ask that as a church we do the same for my trans sisters and brothers.”
While critics of the different measures registered their opposition during the convention debate, many conceded ahead of the vote that they were in the minority.
Episcopalians blazed a trail — and caused an uproar — in 2003 by consecrating New Hampshire Bishop Gene Robinson, the first openly gay bishop in the Anglican world. The Episcopal Church is the U.S. body of the Anglican Communion. Episcopal conservatives responded by creating a rival denomination under the guidance of like-minded Anglican leaders overseas.
Worldwide, the 77 million-member Anglican Communion, which has its roots in the Church of England, has been splintering ever since. Anglican leaders had asked Episcopalians for a moratorium on electing gay or lesbian bishops as the communion struggled to stay together. However, after a few years, Episcopalians voted to lift the temporary ban.
On Monday, several Episcopal bishops who spoke against the same-sex unions trial liturgy warned about the repercussions overseas.
“I believe it will put us, put the Episcopal Church, out of the Christian mainstream,” said Bishop Edward Little of the Diocese of Northern Indiana. “They will interpret that the Episcopal Church has endorsed same-sex marriage.”
However, Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde argued that an official service was needed to honor and bless the “lifelong same-sex couples“ who she said ”have served Christ and Christ’s mission in ways incalculable to measure.”
The official liturgy for same-sex blessings has been in development since 2009, when it was authorized by the last General Convention. Some bishops had already developed rites for the ceremonies for use in their own dioceses. If the deputies approve the proposal before them in Indianapolis, it will be the first such official prayer for use by the entire church.
The rite is called “The Witnessing and Blessing of a Lifelong Covenant.” It includes what one bishop described as a conscience clause, explicitly stating that no one in the church would be forced to perform the ceremony or punished in any way for barring its use. The Blaze first reported about it back in March, though at the time it was expected that the rite could take years to pass.
Like other mainline Protestant groups, Episcopalians have been debating the Bible and homosexuality for decades. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), have in recent years struck down barriers for clergy living with same-sex partners, while the United Methodist Church has maintained its ban on ordination for openly gay and lesbian candidates.
The New York-based Episcopal Church has 1.96 million members. The convention in Indianapolis runs through Thursday (read more about the provision here).
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Comments (203)
SAS6907
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:25amBrittany, do you really believe that the word of GOD, is anything but fact?
It’s either all right, or it’s not. There isn’t any middle ground…please read:
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God isliving andactive and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
and again:
Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Mark 13:31
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
PLEASE, do not be deceived,
Report Post »Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Brittany-Imbriaarts
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:37amYet each one of the New testaments you wrote tell the death and resurrection in different light, its about view points of different writers and each book is written within 100 years of the events so we are basing things on peoples memories of events. The old testament is based on many stories told around campfires and Jewish laws. Read a history book.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:13am@ BRITTANY…..and your point is? You must not accept any work of antiquity and therefore much of the history of the ancient world. Speaking of reading a history book are you aware of how oral tradition works? Are you also aware of how eyewitness accounts work? You may want to rwad a bit more yourself before you rush to a judgment that demonstrates a lack of full knowledge if your assertion is that those writings are unreliable for the reasons you listed.
Report Post »Brittany-Imbriaarts
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:25amMy point is story’s are changed over time thru being misheard misrepresented and being manipulated by others. While I do see the lessons of the bible as fact the words have to be taken with a grain of salt. As Thomas Jefferson said its important for us to question the word of god to understand the “WORD” of god. A simple game of Telephone shows one that stories change. The words become distorted and the modern bible has been re-written over 23 times since the 1600‘s that’s a lot of hands of man on the words of God. Plus if the book is the solid word of god then why is there divisions of Christianity. If the bible is written word of god why is there a debate. Its the word of man‘s interpretation of God’s word.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:55am@ BRITTANY…. I would argue that you are in error in several statements made in your last response. In fact the bible is the most supported work of antiquity with regaurd to the bibliographical evidence whcih leaves only 43 lines in doubt as to whether they were in the original manuscripts that is the story of the woman caught in adultery and the ending of mark both clearly marked in almost any bible. The bible has not be re-written 23 times since the 1600s it has been translated and retranslated when a better translation fits. Again and again the bibliographical evidence secures the accuracy of what we have in the bible most scholars do not even dispute this any longer. The OT is not even argued anymore whether it is a reflection of the original. Oral tradition is much much different than your telephone example. These “stories” were the life and culture of these people. It was not an entertainment while sitting around a campfire, it was what their lives were all about. Moses having written the original first 5 books would have solidified what was already known among the enitre Israelite nation and would not have been accpeted as genuine and accurate had it not agreed with what they all knew from the oral traditions they had been taught. Divisions exist not because of any fault with the bible but because of the sinfulness of man and faulty interpretations. However, some things stand very solidly in black and white. Most Christians share these doctrines in common
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:52pmNo BRITTANY sweetie…the story hasn’t changed. The four gospels were written within the lifetimes of the people described in them. Just taking Luke for example….he makes it clear he spoke to the people involved in the events. He and Paul sat with and travelled with the disciples of Jesus.
Report Post »You‘re trying to impose the belief that this was some kind of game of telephone whereby there’s been so long between the time of the events and the actual writing of them that the story has morphed into something else. You couldnt’ be more wrong. None of the gospels describe the destruction of the great temple in Jerusalem in 70AD. How can they neglect to mention the destruction of the holiest site in Judaism that Jesus had prophesized would take place? This can only happen if the gospels were written before 70AD. Christ was crucified in 33AD. Do the math dumpling.
PATTY HENRY
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:46pmFORMED IN ORDER TO get Henry VIII his divorce; mocked God, made enough in-roads to put it as the #1 Desired Church (PC ) in USA for a while, but the rotten premise it was founded on started showing thru. This past Century they had debates “Is Jesus really the Son of GOD (Divine) or is he
Report Post »just a very inspired teacher (????!!!!!!) ” that’s when I left them and went HOME to the CATHOLIC CHURCH. It got worse, they hired all these women as Priests (There is a reason GOD wanted Men as Priests) and their natural hysteria infected the church; then it got worse…some of the women (maybe all of them) turned out to be Lesbians… now they want to marry same sex couple, openly gay men… I mean they jumped off the deep end. the Archbishop of Canterbury is your classic Hollywood Casting version of a nutcase. The point that GOD is the same Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow is something they just can’t/don’t get. God for them is a Genie in a bottle. This is not a religion anymore than Islam is…these are self-serving activities that have -0- to do with the teachings of our Christ or the GOD who created the Universe. Now they will be ‘uncovered’. I’m sorry for those serious Episcopalians who thought they had a real faith. They are welcomed in the Catholic Church. They will find that it doesn’t worship statues; doesn’t put Mother Mary in front of Jesus and we are not treated like slaves. They‘re taught God’s Love, unchanging forever!
Dr Vel
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:03pmThey should worry less about being out of the Christian mainstream and more about being out of the Kingdom of God.
Report Post »Brittany-Imbriaarts
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:13amAlways amazed at how many people post here don’t get that this comes down to choices. But then many people here seem to not understand the Bible while housing the word of god itself states its a historical record and not to be taken in full context as its written by man and man changes with times and has their own ways to benefit their lives, The churches here made a call to be inclusive to others, and many (Baptists I guess since many of the ones on the decent claim baptist as the clear way) don’t want to accept others into listening to the word of god and building hearts but be exclusive. I for one am happy a church is opening its doors for new voices to be heard and many new ears to listen to the word of god, no matter who they are.
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:25amSorry Britt, but God, my God with a capital “G” is very, very clear regarding homosexuals.
Report Post »Brittany-Imbriaarts
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:29amYeah and he is very clear on slavery, adultery, talking back to your parents, women wearing pants, what you eat, what cloth you wear. But I’m sure you believe that those sins are lesser then being gay even though all those stand in the same section. Don’t be selective in you casting of stones.
Report Post »vaman
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:39amThat’s adorable! You think making the G capital is a big deal. The bible is also clear in this regard (since we are randomly picking bible stuff)
A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. Deuteronomy 22:13-21
So if you married the town sl*t, get her executed. The bible says so and that is the absolute authority. It should always be taken literally and seriously. No deviations. Or is you just don’t like gays or for that matter anyone that doesn’t fit your tiny myopic view of what a person should be? At the very least stop using haphazard bible verses to make a point. To objective thinking people it just silly.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:22am@ VAMAN……It [the bible] should always be taken literally and seriously… this is an error. It is not always taken literally. There is simile and metaphor and personification throughout, not to mention historical, poetic, prophetic language and style. The bible should not be interpretted any different than any other literary work. And your critique about the woman not being a virgin is absolutely correct the bible declares that. However, ancient Israel never followed those commands. They were meant to be reflective of the law of God which states that sexual immorality outside of marriage is forbidden and a sin. The bible teaches that all sin deserves death. The bible goes on to say that the law helps us to see our need for forgiveness and the just penalty for our sins and that God himself as the person of Jesus Christ would pay that penalty. Therefore, the same God you are criticizing is also the same one who said to the woman caught in adultery..”Has no one condemned you woman?, then neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.” You have cherry picked a verse to make God seem evil when in fact it must be understood in the enitre context of the bible and what God was trying to teach humanity through those types of things. He himself even goes onto say that upholding the law does not produce life only death. That is why Jesus had to uphold the law perfectly so that he would be an acceptable substitute for you and me.
Report Post »lainab
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:25amBrittany, I AGREE WITH YOU! My comments have been deleted on here before… I guess because I actually do present another perspective that makes people uncomfortable. I keep referencing my husband’s blog ( http://teamcurtiss.com/part-2-is-the-bible-the-word-of-god/ ) because he has spent time wrestling with these very issues–we were both raised in very conservative Christian houses and never allowed to question WHY God is “against” homosexuality; and up until a year ago, I was staunchly against it because the Bible said so. However, all the homosexuals I meet are normal people who just want to be left alone… most of them have hated themselves all their lives because they are the way they are…
With all due respect to the moderators and other Blaze readers, I am not trying to push an agenda or stir up anything. I am simply humbly submitting my perspective that I and my husband have spent hours researching and seeking God to understand. Please believe me when I say that we approached this study with great fear and trembling. We didn’t post it flippantly or lightly.
In short, our message boils down to the theme of Beck’s rally this month–Restoring LOVE. Jesus (defined as the Word of God in John 1) said the two GREATEST commandments are to Love God and LOVE OTHERS AS OURSELVES… He also said not to judge (giving no stipulations… simply DON’T JUDGE)… He also said blessed are the peacemakers and the meek and the pure in heart…
Report Post »Brittany-Imbriaarts
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:30amSLEAZYHIPPOS ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
No they are show the double standard in yours and Ted’s view not saying god is being evil. based on that law any child born out of wedlock should have a woman that bore that child be killed. based on the teachings people use to argue that Homosexuals should be punished and not forgiven. You and several others here show a double standard in many ways stating things as a sin and not welcoming people in to hear the word of god and be forgiven for their sins.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 11:05am@ BRITTANY…
Report Post »I will accept your assertion that it is meant to elucidate a double standard and not reflect on God as being evil, although it certainly indirectly implies such. First of all, you leave no room for repentance. Moses killed, David killed, Lot committed incest, Abram lied twice, what you fail to understand is that the law that was given was meant to expose the sinfulness of humanity and what the just penalty was for breaking the laws of God. However, we know because we have the full revelation of God that those things must be understood in the context of the gospel which states that we become aware of sinfulness when we cannot uphold the law and therefore relaize our need for mercy and salvation. And I see no one argue that homosexuals should not be forgiven? As believers we want them to be saved, but God is very clear we cannot continue on in a dleiberate lifestyle of sin and think we are saved. In fact Paul even stated that some in the early church used to be homosexuals and drunkard and so one and they were forgiven. I want nothing more than the same thing, but this article is about a “church” endorsing what God clearly calls an abomination and they are not calling for homosexuals to repent in fact they are securing their sinful lifestyle. That is not loving at all. If we stay on point I am completely consistent with no double standrads at all. Thank you.
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 11:37am@ LAINAB…if I may respond at the risk of seeming arrogant. You seem sincere and genuine. I owuld simply say based on your information you are lQQking to the wrong thing to understand why Homoesexuality is wrong. If you lQQk to the people you may thing, what’s the big deal? They are nice. And so many nice atheists exist and many nice immoral people exist. The answer lies in what creation is all about. It is about reflecting the Character of God and aspects of spiritual reality. Marriage as instituted by God is to be between a man and a woman. The man is a reflection of Jesus Christ, hence the headship etc. and the woman stands for the church which has been redeemed by Jesus’ sacrifice. The very institution of marriage is meant to reflect the spiritual reality of a church purchased by Jesus’ death and blood to become His bride for all eternity. So when two men come together in such a way it is a perversion and corruption of what sexuality/marriage is meant to signify between a man and a woman. This is the Devil’s oldest form of warfare. Can’t harm God so harm what reflects Him and His glory, ie in this case the marriage relationship as designed by God. And your comment about not judging is in error. The context of the scripture is that we are to make right judgements/not be hypocritical, hence remove the log from your own eye BEFORE you remove the speck form your brother’s eye. You make judgments everyday. Your exegesis was way off there. Thak you.
Report Post »TheGrtDcptn
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:00pmBrittany-Imbriaarts wrote…
‘You and several others here show a double standard in many ways stating things as a sin and not welcoming people in to hear the word of god and be forgiven for their sins.’
Society is not responsible as to whether or not YOUR sins are forgiven, that falls on each of us, individually. I have read several of your posts and see you keep referring to Mosaic Law. Do you understand that we are under The Age of Grace, not Mosaic Law…?
Report Post »One question you asked is why are there are so many denominations…Simply stated, the doctrine of that particular church didn’t tickle the ears of some parishioners, so they broke off and formed their own chapter, one where they could preach their version of truth…and it has broken off into many different chapters since, as you have pointed out. Religion as a whole has become so entangled on what is the truth and what is “mans” truth, and there IS a very big difference between the two. Sitting in a pew, in a church, that preaches only what you want to HEAR does nothing to lead us to the right path of repentance/forgiveness of our sins, thus our salvation. NO man can give us salvation, only Jesus Christ through His sacrifice can redeem us.
The truth has been distorted, omitted, ignored and lied about for so long, by man, who has, and still does use deceit for their own purpose, not for the glory of God. It is what we DON’T want to hear that will bring us to the truth, and hopefully (repentance) our salvat
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:08pm@ LAINAB…let me clarify a bit more Genesis says for this reason a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife and the 2 shal become one flesh. In the same manner spiritually, Jesus left His heavenly Father to come and die and be united to His bride (the church) so that the 2 shall become one. In this way marriage has a very specific purpose not to mention that the marriage relationship has been given the task to procreate also reflective of the fact that the union between Christ and his church will produce spiritual children through evangelism of the gospel as more people become born again though this intimate relationship of Christ and His bride (the church). Homosexuality perverts this because no children can be procreated. It is Satan’s way of trying to blashpeme the work of redemption and becoming born again. Thank you.
Report Post »TheGrtDcptn
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:10pmThey cut off my post, that should read…
It is what we DON’T want to hear that will bring us to the truth, and hopefully (repentance) our salvation.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:32pmThere are many ways to sin, which has been pointed out.
To me it emphasizes the fact that nobody is perfect.
That is why Jesus died on the cross for us, that we may be cleansed of our sins if we repent and follow Him.
The key word is to repent.
The Bible states in Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man”.
We are here to grow and to learn.
We cannot be held accountable to rules we do not know. As we become aware of the rules we should follow them. We should feel Godly sorrow for having disobeyed God and repent – change our lives and try hard not to repeat the sin.
The invitation has always been the same: “Repent” and “Follow me”.
Report Post »RT4
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:11pmBritt you have to accept that you and people who have gender identity problems have some pssichological problems that should be addressed instead of using this uncontrolable lgbt activism that blindness the true and creates an or real world where everything is permisable and at that point becomes a sin. Britt don’t ding too much in the intentions of who wrote the bible, turn to GOD he will help you. Just remember to nowadays we don’t have an answer of who or how the world was created. Have faith and you will receive the right answer.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:21pmBRITTANY sweetie…you seem to be mixing the old and new testaments. The new testament is the new convenant. This is why christians don’t have to care about eating pork, mixed fiber clothing, shellfish..etc like their Jewish cousins.
Report Post »You seem grossly misinformed and your twisted hermeneutics betray a very uneducated mind as to the differences between judaism and christianity.
Come back when you actually know what you’re trying to talk about.
By the way..BOTH testaments make it clear that God decrees homosexuality as a sin. It’s not open to interpretation..it’s a fact..digest it, acknowledge it sweetie.
AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:42pmSee BRITTANY..here’s your problem again tulip….God indeed forgives sins, if the sinner is remorseful and abandons his sinful ways. God doesnt‘ just keep forgiving for the same offense if there’s no genuine attempt to rid oneself of the sin. See how this works sweetie? You have to mean it, not just demand forgiveness.
Report Post »Of course God would forgive a homosexual..if the homosexual abandoned homosexuality. See how it works champ?
And no sweetie..once again…the new testament was written within the lifetimes of some of the people in the events described in it. It’s not like a game of telephone where the story changes by the time it gets to the last person. That’s not what took place. Luke for instance makes it clear he investigated the events and spoke to the people involved, he and Paul spoke with the disciples of Jesus. Luke didn‘t ask Mary’s neighbour’s granddaughter in Nazareth what she knew about Jesus, is that what you think took place BRITTANY? Or do you think a bunch of disenfranchised ex-jews got together and made it up a hundred years later? Please stop insulting mine and everyone else’s intelligence here.
Brittany-Imbriaarts
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 2:32pmI am not insulting peoples views I am pointing out that this is a decision based in the article that the views of the church are being made to be inclusive to the GLBT community. If you don‘t agree then guess what don’t attend their church or services. The bible is for each person to read and take what they will from it. I state my views of the bible and for the last post been told I am wrong. The answer is no I am not wrong in accepting god in my own way. Tell me do you people go and complain to Jewish people for not accepting Christ, Mormons for following their take, how about Muslims or any of the other religions. We have a right in this country for freedom of religion as each person can take their own way of accepting god in their lives without being berated or persecuted for their beliefs yet the posts above prove that’s not the case here. I’m getting tired of each week seeing people on here be selective on their calling out sins that they feel strong on enforcing. Respect god in your own heart and not place your views of god on others.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 2:49pmYeah umm..BRITTANY..it doesn’t work like that sweetie. The bible isn’t a book of suggestions. Man is fallible..he makes mistakes, that’s why we humiliated, tortured and crucified Jesus..this is why the Episcopal Church has got it wrong all in the name of liberal thought.
Report Post »The texts are clear. Jesus himself states that the ONLY union blessed by God is the union between a man and woman, in fact he reiterates the T’orah when he says it. The Book of Acts goes on to explicitly address homosexuality as being a sin before God. This is why the Episcopal church has had to come up with new prayers for your LGBTACRONYM456^&* allies.
You don‘t get to cherry pick which parts fo the bible you don’t like and which ones appeal to your sensibilities BRITTANY..it doesn’t work that way champ. Is this really that difficult for you to process?
You already have demonstrated that you have absolutely no clue about biblical history and you want others accept your twisted hermeneutics now? Really?
AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 2:58pmPerhaps you misundertood what’s being presented to you BRITTANY…no one‘s telling you you can’t be wrong about the bible and it’s teaching. You have every right to be wrong..you’ve demonstrated that right today.
Report Post »Yes BRITTANY..you are wrong in accepting God in your own way because that’s not what the texts tell us to do. You accept him HIS way. You clearly have no remorse for your homosexual activity but demand his forgiveness nonetheless. It doesn’t work like that diddums.
He didn’t let his son be humiliated, tortured and nailed to a cross so that you can “choose to believe what you want to” about his word. The Episcopal church has fallen under the spell of liberalism. It‘s clearly strayed from the word of God this is why it’s having to come up with new rites and adherences to accomodate homosexuals and confused individuals. This was not unforeseen by Jesus (or the disciples later)…they saw this coming. But yes..you have every right to be wrong about the bible BRITTANY and you’ve clearly exercised that right today.
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:07pm@ BRITTANY….Neither am I trying to insult anyone. However, we must strive to be correct, accurate and logical in our deductions about such important matters. The bible is definitely for each person to read, but we do not get to accpet God on our terms, we must accept Him as He has revealed Himself to be in His word. Otherwise, we are creating God in our image. And of course I don’t complain about people not accepting Jesus, but in love I would try to convince them of their need to receive and follow Christ. Remeber their but for the grace of God go I (I used to be an atheist) so I am thankful that God loved me enough to confront my sin and so open my eyes to things. While it can be unpleasant, it is most definitely necessary. Much like receiving a diagnosis of cancer, unpleasant to hear, unless followed by that news is the news of a definitive cure for the disease. I can only speak for myself but I believe I have been very respectful just dealing with error or inaccuracy as it relates to comments and this article. If, for instance, the article was about lying or immorality or adultery I would address those straight on according to what the bible states. By telling someone that they have a sin problem that needs to be repented of, am I hating them or loving them? Faithful are the wounds of a friend Brittany. It may not be pleasant to hear I have cancer but if you didn‘t tell me I would ask why you didn’t care enough to tell me.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:18pmHomosexuality hasn’t been universally accepted as bad by every religion on the earth, because people wanted to pick on the poor little odd queers. It was demonized because history taught man what caused it, how it was spread, and how to slow it’s spread. While you may know some homosexuals that act normal on the outside, seem to have morals, seem to have compassion, the act that snaps something in their brain making them act the way they do, has side effects that does a lot more than just make them attracted to the one that abused them. The left wants it accepted these days because they know the damage that it will bring to this society, they think that once our society collapses, they will be the ones left around picking up the pieces.
Report Post »Brittany-Imbriaarts
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:32pmAnd you have a right to be wrong on the bible as well AVENGERK. Last time I checked only one person has come back from the dead and he told us to be accepting of all in the eyes of god. But you want to be blind to that lesson and tell me my belief is wrong. I will and am prepared to face god and his judgement when my time comes, but what I wont do is say who is right and wrong in their belief as you are doing to me. Sleaze I hope that cancer you talk about is clear and you can go on living and no I haven’t been insulted by your words I just am merely stick up for what and how I believe and supporting a group reaching out to others. I don’t like seeing politics in the pulpit but as all things in politics it works both ways, as previous following have held actions in the past to quote do good in the name of god for me by making my pocket pay for it. Politics and religion should not even touch each other ever. Its my personal belief that Government (not religion) is the problem of the gay marriage debate. Government should not charge or hold a event that has always been a religious one (note religious not Christian) thus anyone who finds a church willing can marry.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:38pmBy the way BRITTANY…I’m a terrible and flawed sinner. I have a lot to account for before my God when my time comes. But I work everyday to remove those sins from my life that he asks me to be free of. Some I have been successful in doing so, some I’m still working on. But that’s the difference between you and me BRITTANY..I don’t say..”ok that’s good enough” to God. I work at being what he wants me to be even it’s difficult to do. I stumble many times but I don’t just accept it and say “that’s all your getting God” as your’e doing.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:08pmNo BRITTANY…Jesus didn’t tell us to be accepting of all. He told us not to accept sin. Homosexuality is sinful in Christianity. He counselled the sinner but he didn’t accept the sin. In your warped interpretation of the bible you want the sin accepted because you want to ignore it in the name of “acceptance”. That’s not what Jesus taught at all.
Don’t take my word for it BRITTANY:
“Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves…For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.” Romans 1:21-24,26,27.
You see that BRITTANY? God made “into an image made like to corruptible man”. This is what you and the Episcopal church are doing. Mangling the word and corrupting it. I said ealier Jesus foresaw
Report Post »TheGrtDcptn
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:20pmBrittany-Imbriaarts wrote…
‘Tell me do you people go and complain to Jewish people for not accepting Christ, Mormons for following their take, how about Muslims or any of the other religions.’
Regardless of what religion one claims, there is still only ONE GOD…and only ONE WAY to salvation. God is not a religion, and religion is not a god.
‘Last time I checked only one person has come back from the dead and he told us to be accepting of all in the eyes of god.’
Accepting ones fellow man is very different from demanding they condone ones sin.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:53pm@ BRITTANY….Fair enough. I won‘t belabor the point any longer other than to say it is God’s judgement we should uphold. I really don’t have cancer, it was a literary illustration of the spiritual point I was trying to make. That being what we need to hear is always what we want to hear. Nonetheless, if someone knew I had cancer and did not tell me they would not be loving me they would essentially be hating me. Thank you….
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 6:38pm@BRITTANY
You sound like a wonderful, kind-hearted person.
You’re doing a great job!
I am a believer in “Seek and ye shall find”.
I never stop seeking, asking, knocking and learning. If people would keep this advise, the truth will come.
We are here to grow and to learn. Some folks get mad when they encounter someone who they perceive to not be as far along the path as themselves. Don’t get upset. You may be farther down the path than they are.
You are right to say that one cannot be expected to heed the invitation of Jesus to “Come, follow me” if they are excluded from hearing the word.
I would also say that sometimes our actions have consequences and by our actions west be excluding ourselves. Thankfully the Savior is ready to forgive. This may require corrective action on our part (repentance), but His promise is sure and available to everyone.
Report Post »SAS6907
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:07amAll you people who back what this “Synagog of Satan” is doing, allow me to ask you one question:
Report Post »Do you read the bible and did you read my post from the one page book at the end of the bible,
placed purposely before the book of Revelations…Jude?
dannyo
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:59amreally sick of gays…attention whores at best…
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:33pmDan…very true…we’re all sick of hearing their whining.
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:46amAnd yet, my beloved state of Indiana still refuses to permit the Episcopal church to legally wed same sex couples. So much for not prohibitting the free exercise of religion.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:44pmGet better material Lezzie.
Report Post »Donttredonme
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:04pmshes right…all you Christians are big government lame’os
Report Post »OneTermPresident
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:45am“I believe it will put us, put the Episcopal Church, out of the Christian mainstream,” said Bishop Edward
Yeah.. I agree, the church of hell and Satan is out of the Christian mainstream… Thank God.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:13amThe Episcopal Church describes itself as being “Protestant, yet Catholic. Just a note..I was invited to a joining of Evangelicals and Catholics together a couple of weeks ago for a 3 day walk..and although overall the program was good..with lots of prayer.. and although the Apostle’s Creed which we had to recite 3 times a day before meals is mostly good..I did not appreciate the fact that it read..“I believe in the Catholic Church which they said means ”universal” what the heck does that mean? Anyway a preacher who claimed to be nondenominational (which I highly doubt..I suspect he was a closet preist) falsely taught that Peter was the rock that the church was founded upon..Peter was not the rock..Peter’s statement which the Holy Spirit had revealed to him about Jesus being the Messiah..the Son of God..was the rock that the Church was founded upon..It was Jesus Himself that is the rock ..Jesus didn’t come to earth so the church could be founded upon Peter. Also the “preist” when asked what idolatry was..told them that it was “love of self” which was a side stepping of the first 2 commandments. 1 thou shalt not have any other gods before me.2 thou shalt not worship any graven image..i love some of the things about the Catholic Church..such as the re enactment of the last supper and the wedding feast..but the false teachings are disturbing.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:20amAshes
They are only false because you don’t believe them.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 11:30am@DISMAYED VETERAN.. Jesus said..pray to God the Father in my name..not to Mary or the Saints..He also said to make no graven images..the Catholic church is full of them..It is directly against the word of God. I have no problem with the Catholic people..I love a great many of them..but I do have a problem with the false teachings of the church..And the reason that I don’t believe them is that I believe God and I believe His Son Jesus/Yeshua and I believe in revelation of the Holy Spirit..above any man.. Blessings to you dismayed veteran and may the Spirit of the one true God be with you..
Report Post »RealLiibertarian
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:42amKudos to a church that puts people before dogma and realises that we are no longer in the Bronze Age
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:06amSo churches may not hold to any absolute morality? What, if any, moral absolutes do you believe exist? If you answer yes, they do exist then how do you determine what those absolutes are? If you say no they don’t exist, how do you know they don’t? What evidence do you possess that they don’t exist? Should a chruch marry 3 people? 6 people? What about a man and a boy? If there are no absolutes then you cannot condemn these marriages. If you say no, based on what grounds? What moral auhtority do you possess to say yes to some and no to others?
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:28amWow, a church for sodomites. How wonderful. I guess Our Lord has changed too. Today He’d never do to Sodom & Gomorrah what He did long ago, right?
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:41pmNo he still sends hellfire and brimstone. Haven’t you been reading the news? There has been an epidemic of people turning into pillars of salt when they tried to videotape the distruction with their iphones.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:58pmMoral absolutes are found not given. You can find this evidenced in the bible. The god of the old testament is very different than the god(Jesus) in the new testament. Is this because he changed? Of course not. Man, who invented god, changed and so their morals changed. Evolved. Our species is still very young, we are still finding our way. So no, there are technically no moral absolutes, we can only strive to be a society where the least amount of suffering possible is obtained by the most amount of people.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:59pmummm…actually DOORSIE…Christ made it clear that he was the new convenant and that he was here to fulfill the prophecies of the T’orah. Now of course Jewish scholars contest this..but this why jews are jews and christians are christians. And Christ himself said that the curtain in the temple would be torn in two..meaning there’d be a schizm in judaism after his ascencion to heaven. This is exactly what took place. Jews who believe in Christ were persecuted by other jews, the romans..etc. Gentiles were accepted into the fold, debate took place between rabbinic law and the practices of gentiles and how to reconcile them with Christ…voila..Christians have sprung from Jews. A new convenant, a new set of laws for man through Christ. Where the new testament reiterates the old testament is it normative to Christians..this is why christians can eat pork and shellfish, wear mixed fibers, can be “uncut” etc…This isn’t tough stuff to understand DOORSIE..but you seem to have trouble understanding it.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 2:11pmWhy the need for a new convenant? He couldn’t get it right the first time?
Have you ever read about black holes? Have you ever read anything or watched anything on the universe? Trust me…a creator wouldn‘t need two go’s at it.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 2:24pm@ THE DOORS…Your answer is illogical. Moral absolutes would exist whether discovered or not if they are present. However you stated the following..”Moral absolutes are found not given……… Man, who invented god, changed and so their morals changed”…..this my friend is the definition of moral relativism. You then go on to say…”So no, there are technically no moral absolutes”. You do realize you have contradicted yourself yet agian because this very statement is a moral absolute statement. If it is correct then it is false and therefore you have committed the logical fallacy of non-contradiction. So you believe in moral relativism,(which is an illogical position to hold)?
where the least amount of suffering possible is obtained by the most amount of people…So given your idea of morality would it be OK to torture 10 children to save the world? How about a tougher one. Would it be OK to kill 10 to save 20? Subjective morals change, can become contradictory, and might differ from person to person. Take a look at slavery, for example. The greatest happiness for the greatest number of people means that a minority of people should suffer in bondage. This way, the greatest amount of freedom for the majority is ensured. But if the atheist says that it is wrong to enslave a minority to benefit the majority, then why is it wrong? Because he said so? If he says it’s wrong because the minority is suffering, so what? Why is suffering wrong? It may be unp
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 2:26pmSee again DOORSIE you’re showing your ignorance.
Report Post »WE couldn’t get it right..not God. Floods, plagues..etc..we still didnt’ get it. So he sent his son to redeem us. Through him and the new convenant we can make amends to God.
You being an “antitheist” (LOL) I’m not surprised these dynamics are oblivious to you. But if you want to enter into an intelligent discussion on church doctrine at least understand what you’re mangling.
And yes I’ve read books on cosmology.
The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:01pmI believe morality was learned and has evolved over time. There is no logical proof that morality was here before we were.
I could ask you the same straw man questions and I’m sure our answers would be similiar because we share a common trait, empathy.
How about people who are made without the ability to feel empathy? They don’t receive enough oxytocin to create bonds or care for other individuals as you and I do. Or their frontal lobe doesn’t work quite like ours. God made them that way yet they are unable to participate in the morality that we do. Therefore, they are incapable of the morality that you and I probably share. What is absolute morality if God can’t even create an equal playing field?
Morality is a learned behavior…and it is a result of evolution and what works in a successful and empathetic society. We were learning about morality before the bronze age, during the bronze age, and even today. The bible is a great testament to humans trying to form a principled morality…but it’s not constant or absolute. We treat women differently, we don’t owns slaves anymore, we treat homosexuals differently. We treat sins differently…something we still consider wrong we don’t punish with death. Why? Because we know more now. If morality is absolute and was here before us and time…why has it changed? Why was it ok to beat and own slaves in the bible then but not now if it is absolute?
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:09pmAvengersie
Hmmm….so God sends floods, plagues and such to convince them he existed? Kind of like Zues with thunderbolts? Why can’t he just level with us? Why does he have to send things on people that at the time they didn’t understand…like plagues, locusts, floods, volcanoes, weather in general. Doesn’t that seem cruel. They didn’t even have microscopes to see the animal that was plaguing them. I mean he obviously can’t do that stuff now because we know what causes all those things…we have science.
Sounds logical…sounds very man made.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:25pm@ THE DOORS…..You led again with a logical fallacy that there is no logical proof morality was here before we were. Where do the laws of logic come from? You are using them to state morality is created and discovered by man. Anything discovered must have existed before or it cannot be discovered. Your premise is logically flawed. Subjective morality is illogical my friend. Please stay on point my argument does not fall under the straw man category it is completely consistent with the laws of logic. You have also committed the fallacy of subject distraction when asking about people who cannot feel. The issue we are discussing is your concept of morality namely that it is not absolute. We can answer those questions after we have dealt with this issue. Thank you. If morality is learned then what is it learned from? If it is society where did society learn it from. There had to be a first cause somewhere if it is learned. You see you run into the same logical problem again, your position is illogical. What evidence do you use to support your premise that morality is learned? Your premise that morality has changed is incorrect. The law of God (morality) is the same it has simply been fulfilled by Jesus under the new covenant of grace.,
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:34pmAre you under the impression that God is in the magic trick business DOORSIE? That he’ll produce himself to “antitheists” (LOL) like you on demand and make them believe or else? No sport..that’s not what God does. He’s in the forgiveness and redemption business. You come to him.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:52pmEvolution. Survival. Man rapes and murders woman. Man does not reproduce. Man cares for woman. Man reproduces and his genes are passed on. The simpliest answer is usually always the best. Where do monkeys get their morality? Why don’t they rape and kill everyone in their group? Are they beholden to the same absolute morality from your bible?
Anything discovered must have existed before? Rethink that.
Man is disovering things in his mind all the time that never existed before. Did the computer exist before someone discovered how to make one? Did that thought in your brain just now exist before you discovered it coming out of your subconcious without any control by you? It always comes back to trying to fill gaps. You try to take it back as far as it goes for you at least…who created logic? Who created the thing that created logic? Who created the thing of the thing that created the thing that created the thing….
Logic is man made as well….just as the word logic is man made
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:14pmHe was in the Magic Trick business…at least when/where science was unavailable. See, you keep framing your argument as if I’m attacking god. Which I’m not. Just trying to show you how man made it all is. These things were only magic back then because they didin’t understand them. It’s just unfortunate that “theist” (LOL) still believe it today.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:17pmAvengersie
Haha yeah sort of. No but not all groups of monkeys do that. Chimpanzees care for each other…I don’t think they ever read a bible.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:39pmSo let me see DOORSIE…you’re trying to liken natural laws like caring for offspring with moral concerns like charity, humility and generosity? When’s the last time you saw a troupe of Chimpanzees build a hospital or a soup kitchen? Your “ha ha’s:” make you look even more shrill than usual by the way.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 5:09pm@ THE DOORS…please stay on task with me we are not talking about animals and morality (even though they do kill within their group to obtain dominance). I don’t have to rethink it it is a logical for something to be discovered that means it had to exist. Can you discover something that does not exist? If it does not exist there would be no evidence of its existence and therefore could not be known. Please if you feel there is an illogical fallacy state your case. Your examples are fallacious because the tools to create rest upon prior knowledge, computers were created using previously discovered materials and knowledge. You said man is dicovering morality not creating morality. If you don’t like the implications of what you have said pick your words better. To discover is not the same as to create. By citing the fallacy of infinite regression you have not supported with evidence your claim that morality is subjective and that there are no moral absolutes. Is it subjective that all knowledge is subjective? That is what you are stating unless you believe that there is no moral absolutes, which is of ciouorse a moral absolute and therefore self-defeating and illogical. If you then say it is subjective then how can you know it is true? Logical absolutes exist. They are, by nature, conceptual absolutes. Conceptual absolutes exist in the mind. They do not reside in matter. These logical absolutes cannot be quantified or tested in a lab. Yet, they exist. Cont…
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 5:19pmBy the way DOORSIE…look up “the knights of St John” and hospitals. A christian order of knights initiated the concept of hospitals on western civilization. Yeah..Chimps do that too right?
Report Post »HKS
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:22amWell, maybe it’s just me but, if churches are changing their doctrine to accommodate political views, it would seem to me that their views are false to start with and built on sand. With that said why would one want to give them financial support, seems like a worthless proposition to me. They are just changing their business model to justify themselves. Right is right forever and wrong is wrong forever, it doesn’t change like the weather.
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:47amSo, when slavery was right, it should have been right forever?
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:23am@HOLLOWPOINTS God does give us free will..what we choose to do with that free will is up to us..We have the privilege of reading God’s word and accepting it or rejecting it..We live but for a short time upon this earth..then there is eternity..Some people do not believe that we will live into eternity..That is their right..but just because they don’t believe it does not mean that there is not one. An atheist friend of mine asked me..well can’t we just die and that be it? It would be nice if it were that simple…but that is not determined by us but is by our Creator..We do not get the luxury of that option..When the saved in Christ die..they will go to a place of heavenly rest..and when the lost die..they go to a place of torment to await the final judgement. The saved will be with Christ in the millenial kingdom..the children born in that reign will know no sin until Satan is released for a short time to take who will fall..then the judgements will commence and the lost and Satan will be thrown into hell forever..and the saved will live eternally with Christ.
Report Post »Altair
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:27amAgree, HKS… the church should have been a rock. It’s nothing but PC now. The Episcopal Church even threw away the old prayerbook in favor of some stupidity that uses street talk, to appease the ’70s generation. I guess it did, but a few milliion of us older folks walked away.
BTW, carpetmuncher, slavery is a sociopolitical concept, not a religion.
Report Post »HKS
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:38amThe Lesbian, must be a liberal, when stumped they cry racism,
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:47am@ Altair & HKS:
Report Post »Actually, slavery was given tacit approval in your precious Holy Bible. you know, that thing that’s correct and righteous, then, now, and for all times. So, why doesn’t HIS CHURCH still approve of slavery? If it’s supposed to be constant and eternal, then why have they changed WRT slavery? And if they can change to stop approving of slavery, why can they NOT NOW change to stop approving of anti-gay bigotry and homosexual apartheid?
ashestoashes
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:20am@Hollow Points..the Bible does not condone slavery..but it does imply that we will not be promised freedom when living upon the earth..but we are still to be good stewards of God’s word and teach it to others and to deal righteously even if we have masters..there are instances of this throughout the Bible..For instance..Joseph whom being betrayed by his own brothers..for what turned out to be a holy purpose..became advisor to a king and ruled with him.. We are not promised a good life here on earth..but. if we live in obedience to Him..we will have a good eternity..like I said..this life is short.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:30am@ LESBIAN….You are in fact correct about slavery being in the bible however your isogesis of its meaning is glaring because you are making one fatal flawm, cultural and lietrary context. In those days slavery was abundant and God many times used the horrors of physical slavery to communicate the idea of spiritual slavery to a humanity that was essentially blind to spiritual slavery and oppression. He also sometimes used it as discipline upon his people who would wander and began worshipping false idols (demons). The next thing to realize is that slaves had no rights whatsoever, they could be killed on a whim with no regard and severly mistreated with no consequences. The OT was actually radically liberal in its day for the protections it afforded slaves compared to the world and treatments at that time. So please try to understand that even though there are difficult things to understand sometimes being guilty of presentism will never produce an accurate undertsanding of the reality or context of a situation. Thank you.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:41pm@LESBIAN PACKING HOLLOW POINTS
Always good to see you!
I believe that God is patient.
In a perfect world no one would be a slave, but we do not live in a perfect world. We are subject to temptation. Holding a person in bondage is a temptation that we have.
God teaches his children as they are able to understand and comprehend. Jesus spoke in parables mostly because if the people understood Him, they would be accountable for that knowledge. The ones who had “ears to hear” were His audience. The rest He let them do as they desired.
Paul said, “first milk, then meat”.
We learn in increments. As time went on, the world was ready for higher teachings.
Someday all will be revealed to us.
That’s how I see it. Others may see it differently, but that is how it makes sense to me.
Have a great day!
I enjoyed the poem you posted the other day, BTW
Report Post »helmuit_7
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:53pmDon’t look now but their is a whole new round of slavery coming. Just as soon as they get the waters muddied enough.
Report Post »HKS
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:58pmIt can be said that Obama wants us all to be his slaves right now. He’s working real hard at that. Most minorities are slaves to poverty, Democrats and ignorance. The package might be different but the result is the same.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:02pm@LPHP- During the time of the Israelites slavery was very common among the rest of the nations. In those cultures they treated slaves as mere things instead of people. They could be tortured or murdered at the owner’s consent. This was not consistent with God’s will. There were many different ways in which they were obtained, POWs, a robber who had been caught, one selling themselves into slavery to pay off debts, etc. Under the Babylonian rule anyone harboring a runaway slave could be put to death while under the Hebrew system a slave seeking refuge was not to be returned to his master. Jews were not permitted to kill their servants. The Hebrew system was not made to abruptly stop the practices of slavery in the ancient world it did however embrace restraining measures that would gradually allow slavery to fall to disrepute. God never condoned certain things that people look at the Old Testament and say “See! He allowed it!” I mean look at divorce, under the old law a certificate of divorce could be given for just about any reason. Under the new law there is only one cause for divorce. Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent Acts 17:30. Just because it was allowed in the Old Testament does not mean in any way it is condoned or allowed today.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:33pmI like how you guys love putting the bible in historical context when it comes to slavery and the treatment of women but when it comes to talking animals, living in fish, walking on water, rising from the dead, virgin births, and all those other “miraculous” happenings there is no need to do so.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 5:25pm@ THE DOOR…it is called Hermeneutics. It is the proper study of interpretation and is a well known study and accpeted methodolgy for interpretting any work of literature. Including the bible. To accurately interpret anything both literary context and cultural context is essential. Also, one must identify literary devices such as metaphor, simile, personification etc…Then one must lQQk at the writing styla and its form such as historical, poetic, prophetic, etc. By incorporating these things within the context of how they were written accurate meanings can then be arrived at in most each instance. When there is still question usually the options for potentialmeanings are quite limited and can often be infered bby other parts of scripture. How do interpret literature?
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 5:29pm@ THE DOOR….How do you interpret literature?
Report Post »enuffnow
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:20amTime for a name change to the despicable church!
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:19amTransgender ordination, LOL. Your church has become a joke Episcopals. Are you really willing to have Rue Paul as your priest? Time to abandon ship, there are plenty of Chriist centered churches left in America. The Episcopal church has no monopoly on Jesus.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:34amI’m sure George Washington is beaming with pride right now for his denomination. Although, I believe it was David Barton who said that there was a Baptist church next to his Episcopalian church and Washington would purposefully sit by the window so he could hear the Baptist preacher. He would never leave the Episcopalian church out of a sense of loyalty. Back when men were men.
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:49amRuPaul [sic] isn’t transgendered. He‘s a gay man who dresses flamboyantly in women’s clothing for entertainment value, not as a lifestyle. That makes him a drag queen, not transsexual.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:53amHis sense of loyalty would not have held him in that church with this stuff going on.
Report Post »Displacedsoutherner
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:08amJoining what has long been viewed as one of the more conservative denominations and then complaining that it‘s not liberal enough to suit your tastes is like going to a Ford dealer and getting upset because there aren’t any Chevy’s there.
Shop around until you find a denomination that fits your beliefs rather than try to radically alter one that doesn’t.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:42amWho cares *****.
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:48am@ Gonzo:
Report Post »Apparently, YOU care. I would never have brought RuPaul into this thread, but YOU cared enough to do just that.
Gonzo
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:33amWho cares how you define the pervert.
Report Post »65Mustang
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:34amGONZO. don’t let the LESBIAN put you down…you can’t argue with idiots. The Episcopal church is nothing but a tool for the devil along with many others, Jeremiah Wright’s for instance.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:43pmI love when someone calls someone an idiot, then in the same breath invokes the devil, a mythical creature. Replace unicorn or hobgoblin in your post and you might see how ridiculous you sound.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:59pm@ THE DOORS…..why do you believe the Devil is mythical? What evidence have you examined? Would you classify yourself as a weak or strong Atheist (meaning weak has no belief in god, strong means you know there is no god, and therefore devil)?
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:21pmI haven’t examined any evidence, because there is none. Do you believe in fairies, unicorns, leprechauns, centaurs, satyrs? Do you believe these things are mythical? If so what evidence have you looked at to come to that conclusion? I would assume the evidence would be the lack there of…but do you still hold a space in your mind for these things to be true or have you completely written them off?
I was unaware that there were different levels of athiesm. I’m more of an antitheist…I am completely open to a god being the creator. There is just no evidence at this time sufficient enough to make me believe or bow to him. If he would even be so self-absorbed to need to be bowed in front of or worshipped. I mean he created the universe for heavens sake…I would assume he would be a little more mentally sound than that considering what he is capable of.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 2:33pmYeah..here’s the thing DOORSIE….the historical Jesus existed. The disciples who evangelized after his ascencion existed. Secular sources corroborate these things. Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, Josephus..etc. So the only thing left to question is the supernatual aspects of the new testament..did Jesus perform the miracles he did. Did he rise physically from the dead? To a self described “antitheist” (LOL) like you no explanation is acceptable. To the believer, no explanation is necessary.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 2:37pm2 THE DOORS…..I haven’t examined any evidence, because there is none. Do you believe in fairies, unicorns, leprechauns, centaurs, satyrs? Do you believe these things are mythical? If so what evidence have you looked at to come to that conclusion? I would assume the evidence would be the lack there of…but do you still hold a space in your mind for these things to be true or have you completely written them off?….Of course I don’t believe in the things you listed because there is no logical evidence to support their existence. However, there is logical existence to accept the existence of God. What evidence would you accept? And would you accpet it? To make a negative existential assertion is by defintion not provable or knowable so a strong atheist is already not logical, better to be a weak atheist who says I have not seen evidence to this point. Will you take the challenge with me as long as this story is on the board? If you say there is no evidence but cannot proclaim the evidence you have examined and why it is not accpetable then your position is merely illogical and I would assume you are not in sincere pursuit of the truth but refuse despite any evidence to adapt your position. “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is a proof against all argument, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance –
Report Post »that principle is condemnation before investigation.” Herbert Spencer
The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 2:46pmWe weren’t talking about god…we were talking about the devil.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:22pmActually DOORSIE…both God and the Devil were mentioned to which you demanded evidence. The physical Jesus existed. Again secular and hostile sources like Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, Josephus all name him within the context of the events described in the bible. Tacitus in particular describes his execution at the hands of the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate. There’s no question Jesus the man existed. The only thing left to question are the supernaturual aspects of his story..and again.for the believer, no explanation is necessary.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:28pm@ THE DOORS…If the Devil exists then God exists if the Devil does not exist then God does not exist. It is a logical equition that is unflawed. So my questions still stand…
Report Post »togjr9
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:32pmThe Devil‘s greatest achievement was convincing the world he doesn’t exist! This argument ends itself.
If anyone has a problem with the christian faith then simply walk away. If we spent this much time fixing the country and employment instead of telling people how and what to pray too the world would be a better place. The meat of it is Christians try to follow a good set of rules, love all God’s children and leave the world a little better than we found it. Loose the hate and share the love, if you don’t believe in our faith, true Christians will pray for you.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:19pmYour god does a pretty descent job of convincing people he doesn’t exist as well. Should I just name whole countries that don’t believe in your god?
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:23pmSleazy
There is as much evidence that the god of the bible “logically” exists that exists for all those other gods and fairytales.
You have as much evidence on your hands that the greek gods exists as you do for the one in the bible.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:47pmShould I just remind you that man has been given a choice DOORSIE? Actually you’ll find within those “whole countries” that many of them have Christian enclaves. Perhaps you‘re referring to places like Saudi Arabia where there’s a conscious effort to make sure no other religion is allowed to be practiced other than the religion of tolerance..Islam? Or when Japan crucified and executed hundreds of Christian converts from the Portuguese clergy?
Report Post »Or better yet..how about those secular/humanist regimes of the twentieth century…Stalin’s Russia, Khmer Rouge, Maoist China, Hitler’s Germany…between them responsible for the incarceration and deaths of hundreds of millions of people. Heck..China still has gulags. You humanists really raised the bar there didn’t you?
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 5:37pm@ THE DOOR…your argument that the Devil‘s greatest achievement was convioncing the world that he didn’t exist is again illogical because to achieve something, that something must exist. So argument is not over. Unless you are conceding that He does exist which would mean that God exists. And this world, if Christianity is true is the least of humanities concerns for it would be the age to come that would be of greatest urgency.
There is as much evidence that the god of the bible “logically” exists that exists for all those other gods and fairytales.
This is simply erroneous. Please list the “same” evidence that you have investigated. Do other religious manuscripts possess the same bibliographical evidence? How about the same external evidence? What of internal evidence? A clear and objective examination will reveal that you have not based that claim on factual evidebnce or information. Believe me I have investigated and Christianity stands alone in reguard to the mountain of evidence that exists. I still await you to accept my challenge and pick any of the 3 fields of evidence that I Iisted and we will address any questions you might have. Is this acceptable?
Report Post »momrules
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:16amHuman beings trying to justify their deviance by claiming themselves a *church* and calling themselves Christian.
Report Post »They can fool themselves but they cannot fool God. Sometimes I wonder if people like this have ever read the Bible or do they just make it up as they go along.
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 11:38amFor the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Report Post »2 Timothy 4:2-4
formidable_foe
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 5:31pmWow… That’s a pretty prophetic verse. Very interesting.
Report Post »The Catbird
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:06amEpiscopalians of faith have been leaving the Episcopal church in droves over the past 20 years. You’ll find many of them now in the Anglican Church in North America (Google it…) This body, composed of American and Canadian followers is growing rapidly, not only from Episcopal exiles, but through evangelistic efforts.
Report Post »Altair
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:45amI left when, after coming back from Viet Nam, my home church had gone “charismatic.” Gone was the 1928 Book of Prayer, where young Episcopalians learned, among other things, proper and classical English, and in its place was some “street talk” stupidity designed to appeal to the hippies of the day.
The hierarchy tried to please everyone, and lost the entire older generation. I didn’t leave the Episcopal Church; it left me.
Report Post »SAS6907
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:06am16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.
17 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Report Post »18 that they were saying to you, “ In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.”
19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting;
23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
Nemo13
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:04amGays need to join Scientology or some other cult. All ‘real’ religions should stand up against these whackos.
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:56amSo, you would prohibit these people from the free exercise of THEIR religion? Bad Christian! No Communion wafer for you.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:38pm@ LESBIAN…I would certainly not inhibit their ability to practice their religion any way they wanted. However, having the freedom of speech and the love of Jesus enough to call sinners to repentance I would hope you would not limit me, or others that see this as I do, either? If the wolrd hated Jesus because he convicted people that their deeds were evil then it will hate those that follow Him and speak His truth. We expect nothing more and we should count it all joy. However, we must be willing to speak the truth in love. To those who believe, it is the aroma of life; to those who do not, it is the aroma of death.
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:29pmI don’t see anyone clamouring for state and federal laws and even state and federal constitutional amendments to prevent Christians from witnessing for the lord.
I see all of those things from those same Christians, to prevent same sex couples from wedding.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:11pm@ LESBIAN…Now we get to the matter. Marriage being deeply rooted in religion from some of the oldest religions on Earth and certainly in this country has never been defined as being between members of the same sex. For millennia, this has been the case. Now I would suggest as a premise that it is folks in your position that are forcing a certain morality upon those who want to protect what for thousands of years has been a recognized union between memebers of the opposite sex. Historical any society that has embraced homosexuality as a societal norm has ceumbled from within as societal structure was undermined and morality became a foreign concept. History I believe would bear this out upon objective research, eg. Ancient Greece, Roman, etc…
Report Post »SAS6907
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:04am8 Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.
Report Post »9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “ The Lord rebuke you!”
10 But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “ Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
…more to come….
SAS6907
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:57amGod has not blessed them and won’t. As a matter of fact, this is how He has dealt with these kind of things in the past and what will be now…He has told us all in the book of Jude 1 (NASB)
1 Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,
To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ: 2 May mercy and peace and love be multiplied to you.
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. 4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5 Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
Report Post »….more to come….
minnievike
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:12amYou’re blaming Vatican II???! WOW! I think you should start with Henry VIII, Martin Luther…Of course the Catholic Church needed to be reformed — but not this way!!!!
Report Post »Willik
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:53amThis is NOT my Episcopal Church, at least not the one I grew up in.
The US Espicopal heirchy is amazed at the fall off in attendance and some outright defections to other Protestant religions. Many, if not most, are defecting to the Roman Catholic as it is the closest to the Episcopal. My daughter and family have switched to being Catholic, she after 35 years of being an “Episcopal.”
This MY choice which is what this country is all about:
I’ll maintain my “Episcopal” (Church of England version, though I’m worried about them, also) membership and attend services and use its Missal (I have and use my own) where I can find a non “reform” minded “Progressive” parish in my area. So far: No luck. The “touchy/feely,” which began back in the ’70s is totally beyond me, now THIS abomination! And I shall not participate.
Vatican II, convened by Pope John XXIII, has resulted in the corruption and Progressivism of ALL churches. I really don’t think the good John XXIII intended Vatican II to break up Christianity, but bring it together all Christian religions into harmony. The effort has failed miserably!
Sorry, Sir, but you left us a real mess!
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 10:10amI think Minnie’s comment should be addressed to you.
How in the world did the Catholic Church take any action that influenced the Anglican Communtion and the Epsicopalian Church? If there was any influence, it certainly would not have resulted in what is going on in the Episcopalian Church. We don’t believe in abortion. We don’t believe in same sex marriage.
If an Episcopalian wants to remain more traditional, join the American Anglican Church or the Catholic Church. You will find a home.
Report Post »pjthom81
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:09pmYou intrigue me. I’m Catholic and I had thought there might be ripple effects from Vatican II to other versions of Christianity as well. I’m not sure they were due to John XXIII though…after all he was only alive for one session. He seemed to primarily want to rejoin the East and the Western Churches.
I think that the different forms of Christianity are not as far separated as they may appear. I think that when the council was convened the Liberals and Conservatives were equal on comittees with an Eastern Christian voting as tie breaker. I think that when John XXIII died the Liberals took over though not completely. They still had enough power to change the rhetoric of the council from reconciliation from those Churches that are sacrament-based to reconciliation with all humanity, regardless of status of the individual soul involved. Think of it as the “Age of Aquarius” moment for the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church seems to be recovering from that period, but society as a whole has not…and society as a whole is a lot less religious than at the time of convening. In fact, there seems to have been a blowback when the Catholics did not go as far as some people wanted (ie the birth control matter) and I imagine the same is true for other religions.
Put another way, the 60′s were a religious movement. Vatican II saw its partial triumph in rhetoric though not substance. We will be stuck with its conclusions until a new religious revival. Fasci
Report Post »JUSTANOTHEROPINION
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:45amAny Church that condones the Gay lifestyle is not Gods house, it’s satans and an abombination. It’s bad enough that we let the Liberals corrupt our Nation, but, are we realy going to allow them to corrupt our Religion too.If your truely faithful, I mean if you are a true believer in God you would not allow these sinners to continue to lead your Church. I am beginning to think we are truely living the last days.
Report Post »Johann
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:37amThe episcopal church in usa is the wealthiest and most powerful politically speaking. It is clear that their fullsome embracing of the homosexual culture is consonant with the American ruling class. After all the episcopal cathedral in Washington DC is called the “National Cathedral”’ this indicates that the American ruling class has declared through its official church that homosexuality is a sacred thing; the government controlled by the ruling class will follow shortly with its own declaration for the homosexual culture (no doubt John Roberts will put the supremes seal of approval on the deal). Those who do not go along with the ruling class will be punished severely. America delenda est.
Report Post »VoteRightDammit
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 11:08amYou are not really correct.
TEC is in a financial free-fall since the “Love homosexuality, not God” movement came out of the closet. An estimated 3,000 parishes will be shuttered within 2 years due to the mass exodus.
And this is all so easily predicted. Evan a simple business strategy analysis would have pointed out the foolishness …
TEC wants to be a social club, not bound by those pesky “Words of God”. As such, it is in direct competition with many other ‘social clubs’ that are far, far more experienced at providing social pleasure. The likelihood of TEC competing is near zero. Simultaneously, those who attended a TEC church FOR GOD will find He is absent within TEC, and those will leave for a real Christian church. The whole strategy is a lose-lose.
Report Post »JohnLarson
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:36amJesus didn’t say anything about gays…
And the Old Testament said to kill gays, so I don’t think you want to go there…
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:49amIf it’s in the bible it counts … Jesus doesn’t have to “say” it … the entire bible is the WORD of God … get real !
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:18amJesus knocked Saul..(after his conversion named Paul) off of his horse on the road to Damascus..and made him the second greatest Apostle..Paul was schooled in the law of God..but did not recognize Jesus Yeshua until Jesus literally knocked him off of his horse.. In 1Cor 6:9..he tells you who will not enter the kingdom of heaven..Do not be deceived..neither fornicators, nor idolaters,nor adulterers,nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you, but you were washed, but you were sanctified but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God..
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:48pm“…the entire bible is the WORD of God … get real !”
Get real? Oh the irony…
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:04pm@ THE DOORS….what objective lines of evidence do you use to determine if works of antiquity are first accurate reflections of original writings and second accurate in recorded events/information? Hint: there are three broad catagories
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:30pmDo we really need to start that conversation? I know you are intelligent enough to know that determining works of antiquity and their accuracy is far different than determing them as being the written word of God.
So, the better question is, with the thousands of works of antiquity claiming to be written divinely or from the spirit world or from God…how do we determine which one is? I imagine you only need one broad category to determine that because the answer is you don’t.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 3:33pm@ THE DOORS…..So no evidence will suffice in your mind because you set the standards for wevidence above anything else. The standards are the same regardless of what book is being studied and are recognized and used by scholars alike, they consist of bibliographical, external, and internal evidence. These are logical and reasonable for evaluating the claims within the bible. I used to be an atheist in your shoes, trust me I have been where you are at making assumptions assuming Iknew the evidence when in fact I did not……how do we determine which one is?…answer, with the criteria I just listed for you. Now if you want to explore any one of those three broad categories then jsut let me know if you are truly sincere in your search for truth. If you refuse to believe in a god regardless of evidence please let me know that to so that I will not waste your or my time. Thank you.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:39pmYo Doors
When you die and God is not REAL … no biggie … if he is REAL … your door is locked, thus the deception of your preception.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:19pmJohnlarson – Matthew 10:15 would disagree with you.
Report Post »Rickfromillinois
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:35amWere I a member I would quit the Episcopal Church and find somewhere else to go.
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:33amThus explains the falling away.
Ungodly actions by perverted, deceived, decadent, demon-infested leaders of this particular denomination. (Not the only one, unfortunately. umc is close on their heels.)
This church is not GOD’s church.
What a travesty.
CHRISTIAN EPISCOPALIANS, leave your denomination now and find or start one that is THE CREATOR GOD-centered with HIM as your foundation.
LORD, YOU told us there would be a falling away. Never would we have dreamed it would be so vast. JESUS, have mercy on our souls that we permitted such. Thank YOU for more “harbingers” of your soon-to-be-heard “Midnight Cry”. We await YOU with joyful expectation. Thank YOU, HOLY SPIRIT, for mediating between HEAVEN and us so that we are clear, comforted and courageous in these times. In JESUS’ precious name, amen.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:48amBecause of mine and my wife’s daily travel situation, we put our son in the only private school in the area. It was part of the Episcopal Church. Now I am so glad that he finished there around ‘01 or ’02. Have had no reason to be in contact with the school since my son is now in his twenties, but I understand the church membership is steadily dwindling. I suppose that like 0bama who can pick and choose which laws he prefers to enforce, this church now picks and chooses only certain parts of the bible to believe.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:09amWell said as always Kick, well said.
Report Post »ChildofJesus
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:38amAmen Kick..I feel the same and I’m sure God is grieved as well as frustrated. Slow to anger yes it‘s amazing how patient He is I’m no where near that standard. Ohh Jesus forgive us and help us Father to be your light and salt. Break our hearts and help us stand for you.
Report Post »Todd P
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 12:36pmAmen.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 1:10pmI really hope within a couple of generations, although I will not hold my breath since we are already more than 2,000 years removed from the bronze age, my childrens children will not have to hear such things as demon-infested, ungodly, or shouts of “Oh thank you Oh holy spirit”. It will just go peacefully into the night of history as many other ridiculous tribal chants and dogmas have.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:20pmDoors – You Marxists said the same thing back in 1917 and Christianity is still alive today. You’d better fix your own leftist dogma first before preaching to others about dogma.
Report Post »Fubared
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:32amWhy even have a Unitarian church now? Can I get my dog into the lefty clergy too?
Report Post »Donttredonme
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:31amGod bless em’
Report Post »REPUB1
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:46amway to GO you ARE NOW a Partaker Of Their Sins!!!!!
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:46amGod doesn’t bless sin
Report Post »Donttredonme
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 6:59pmGod could care less, you guys are just two little shiit stains on the underside of this huge wonderful universe. If he really cared about gays getting married he‘d stop em’ himself….but I’m pretty sure God has bigger fish to fry
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 8:43pmYo, now there is some real fine talking … God does care, even about you … and He is going to put an end to all sin and remove all stains.
Report Post »Donttredonme
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 9:16pmPeople have been calling on their gods to end the world since we left our nakedness in caves.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 11, 2012 at 6:22pmSo then would God be ok with murder and stealing?
Report Post »randy
Posted on July 10, 2012 at 7:31amSick!
Report Post »