Atheist Calls Christians Planning to Attend D.C. ‘Reason Rally’ ‘Mindless Parasites’
- Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:19am by
Billy Hallowell
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Atheists are coming to Washington, D.C., en force. We already told you about the so-called “Reason Rally,” which is being dubbed a Woodstock for non-believers. The event, to be held on March 24, will bring together “free thinkers” and the organizations that serve them. But following the announcement that this massive undertaking would be occurring in our nation’s capital, it seems some Christians are crafting a response — an event called “True Reason.”
Screen shot from "True Reason" web site
The Christians behind the effort want atheists to know that they’re reasonable individuals who are prepared to confront them with love. Here’s what the “True Reason” web site says:
This website represents Christians from all over the country—even some from as far as Australia and New Zealand—who know that Christianity is both good and reasonable. We’re ready to meet the New Atheists at their Reason Rally in Washington: in truth and in love, to share person-to-person, one-on-one, with anyone we can.
At particular issue, the site proclaims, is the idea that atheists are using their “Reason Rally” “to trumpet the message that reasonable people reject belief in God.” Christians, of course, disagree with this notion. To ensure they interact with and combat the overwhelming aura of non-belief, “True Reason” participants will give out free bottled water, a printed mini-book called “Reason Really” and copies of a book about Christianity and atheism during the “Reason Rally.”
The organizers, though, want to make something very clear. While the “Reason Rally” will be a massive concert and demonstration touting non-belief, the Christian response should not, in their view, be considered a counter-demonstration:
We are going there to share Christ person to person as opportunity arises. We will not raise our voices. We will talk with those who want to talk with us. We will offer gifts and materials to all, but we will not press ourselves on those who do not wish to converse. Knowing that the way others may choose to gather near us is not entirely in our control, we will nevertheless attempt to avoid gathering groups larger than a handful of people.
At least one atheist who caught wind of Christians’ plans shared his disdain on FreethoughtBlogs.com. PZ Myers, who will be speaking at “Reason Rally” and who was also responsible for hijacking a Blaze poll about faith last year, had some strong words for believers planning to attend the atheist “Woodstock” event:
Oh, look who’s also going to the Reason Rally: goddamned annoying evangelical Christians. I’m beginning to feel like my long-standing personal policy of not intruding on their church services needs to be questioned, because man, is this ever arrogant and obnoxious. [...]
If these people bother you at the rally, I recommend one of two choices: either tell them sternly to leave you alone and walk away, or — and this is the fun part — calmly and politely take their rubbish arguments apart with much soft-spoken malice and cruelty.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. This gathering will certainly attract swarms of mindless parasites…this is just the first public announcement of their intent that I’ve seen.
As we reported, musicians and speakers will present and perform at the “Reason Rally.” Among those listed on the event’s web site are evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, Freedom From Religion Co-President Annie Laurie Gaylor and Jessica Ahlquist (the 16-year-old girl behind the prayer mural ban in Rhode Island).
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Comments (397)
cindy g
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:03amThe one question NO atheist can answer:
When asked for a response on the “Big Band Theory,” they can not answer where the particles came from to begin with? How did they form? How does SOMETHING come from absolutely NOTHING?
They have no answer. Why……. because it doesn’t fit their agenda!
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:08amIt is perfectly fine to say, “We don’t currently know the answer.” When the answer isn’t known, it makes no sense to place a magical explaination in its place. Humanity has done this since the first person came up with the “it must be something beyond us causing it” ideologies, thousands of years ago.
Report Post »HKS
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:11amSince atheist have no hope or reason to live, why are thy worried about anything. Just party, party.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:29amAtheism IS a religion!!! They are going to a “worship” service complete with music. They will be fellowshipping with like-minded people. They will be professing a message and they are attempting to proselytize new converts. They will have ministers of their ideology preaching and they will be just as intolerant of other belief systems as any other religion they like to condemn for the same. They are a walking contradiction in lifestyle and substance. Their constant protesting and concern for those they see who believe in “fairytales” demonstrates an insecurity in what they say they believe because they see it as a threat. However, if there really is no afterlife why waste all this time? Just live like a hellion enjoy yourself to the max and then die.
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:36amWhen you ask a religious person where their god came from they will say it existed forever. Why can’t the particles that created the universe have existed forever?
Report Post »Lotus4115
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:43amcindy g
Report Post »So we have the beginning of the universe. Maybe some intelligence is involved but that does not have any correlation to a desert tribe from 4000 years ago rendition of some rehashed genesis story and certainly does not lead to Jesus is our lord and savior. By the way there is a hypothesis on how particles can come from seemingly nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybSNaASDsME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zff0fyX7Jk8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo
Lotus4115
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:47am@watchtheotherhand
Report Post »Science does not equal religious dogma. Talkin out yo a$$.
watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:52am@ LOTUS..spoken like a true religious fanatic that is threatened when your belief system is exposed. Thank you for proving my point.
Report Post »Lotus4115
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:56amwatchtheotherhand
Report Post »Only thing proven here is that you are a closed minded BeckTard.
watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:59amyou see I criticized LOTUS’ savior “science” and just as I stated his intolerance for any belief system but his own was made very apparent. They are most intolerant and arrogant thinking that they know what real truth is and only their belief is right. Unfortunately, even though they claim they base their beliefs in science that is a propagandized fallacy. Real science does not in any way support what they say it does. They take many liberties in the conclusions they draw and the theories they espouse. They do not follow the scientific method consistently, especially when it does not benefit their belief system/faith.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:01pm@ LOTUS…….name calling, wow would have never seen that coming from such a science based intellectual. You do a better job of proving my point than anyone I have come a cross in a while. You continue to expose your intolerance and bigotry and yet you are unswerving as it is pointed out to you. Truly amazing!!!!!!
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:31pmScience is not a body of knowledge, it is a method of inquiry. The human brain has a bias to accepting simple causal explanations for things and then not investigating deeper. The God hypothesis, explains everything but allows us to predict nothing. Social scientists think that humans are intertwined and even have part of out brain called “mirror neurons” that feel pain when others feel pain and joy when others feel joy. It seems to me it is more common for Christians to talk of poor people “just getting a job” that it is for atheists. Atheists do not believe in personal redemption and, thus, have to understand their places in the social world. They are generally more moral than Christians because the only meaning to their life is what they contribute to the world they live in. The only “eternal life” they have is the improvements they make to the society and world they live in. On their deathbeds when they review their lives if they have taught others, built things that have made people’s lives better and been kind to others they can feel they have lived a worthwhile life. Christians can do anything they want and just ask for forgiveness and erase any manner of nastiness. Atheists are far more moral than Christians.
Report Post »Conservative Freshman
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:37pmWatchtheotherhand
I agree with your opinion that atheism is in fact a religion. basically they believe in nothing, its not that they really dont care, but they have a strong belief in absolutely nothing. this is something that I have been thinking about alot lately. atheists have been working to get anything religious on government property removed. and it is replaced with nothing, and is what I’m getting at is the worship of nothing is still the worship of something. I consider agnosticism to be less of a religion than atheism simply because an agnostic does not know does not care and thinks its something that can not be proven.
Report Post »MarianoApologeticus
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:38pmDeavonReye,
Report Post »God created the universe but do not ask me how because “We don’t currently know the answer.”
“In the beginning [time] God [a transcendent being existing outside of, beyond and not subject to the universe’s constraints] created [volitionally brought into being] the heavens [space] and the earth [matter].”
When we know that the universe had a cause it makes no sense to deny it by claiming materialistic agnosticism in its place.
It is the logical fallacy of the ad hominem aka generic fallacy to refer to that which “Humanity has done….thousands of years ago” as who and when are not relevant to truth.
Supernaturalism is the default position and materialism is not. Since the universe, life and everything do not explain themselves, that is do not account for themselves, then materialism is not the default position. Yet, since God is a philosophically necessary being then supernaturalism is the default position.
DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 1:01pmmariono, . . . that is utter nonsense. Where do you get that “the supernatural is the default position”???
Lightning isn’t cast down to earth by Zeus. I mean, . . . what the hell???? O_o
Report Post »closetotheedge
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 1:09pmOne of two things will happen very soon.Either we destroy one another due to our ignorance of what is true.Or we realize that what was written in the bible is true and for the theists who beleive in nothing more than we’re worm food,or they find out to late that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. We will all find out any day now what is the truth.The Hebrew prophets are batting 1,000%.Read and choose wisely.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 1:23pmUh, no. You can make “the hebrew prophets” say anything you want in order for it to appear “prophetic”. But you do so by throwing out the other parts of those stories that don’t correspond to “the future event” or turn around concepts so that “they were allegorical”.
Sorry, but the “prophets” are unconvincing.
Report Post »Dr Vel
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 1:42pmGet it right if you are trying to convince those educated in science. Big Band Theory? I think you are trying to say Big Bang Theory! Unless you are talking about 40′s swing bands. Personally I prefer the Blues Brothers from a later era but that is just me.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 1:52pm@HKS
I mentioned something similar to a particular atheist here once before.
I said, you know, the world is going to end some day, no matter what you do or do not believe.
So why don‘t you just party like it’s 19999999999999
They did not like my comment.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 2:13pmThe one thing that will not be found at this rally is “REASON”
“THE REASON RALLY…………….FOR NO REASON AT ALL”
Report Post »Elena2010
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 2:24pmScience addresses the questions of “how” and “what.” It is ill-equipped to answer “who” and “why.”
Science cannot answer who you are or why you are here. It cannot even begin to address the problem of why the innocent or just suffer. These are the questions that only God can answer for you in a personal relationship w/Him.
I suspect that many atheists have been deeply disappointed w/God in the past. He has not met their expectations or desires. To dismiss Him is to dismiss the pain surrounding the event.
God is NOT a cosmic genie who grants our every wish. He is Creator and sustainer of the universe who loves all His creation and gave it free will. It is the free will aspect that gives us the most trouble — people misuse that gift and cause harm to innocents. Innocents suffer because evil is real and loose until the Day of YHWH. Evil will be vanquished, punished, and banished forever.
Be patient.
Report Post »jeebuskiller
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 3:52pmIf you think Athiesm is a religion (???), then bald is a hair color, asexual reproduction is a sexual act, asymmetry is symmetry, and you sure won’t mind if I form an Atheist church and stop paying my taxes. I mean it’s fine with me if you stupidly think Atheism is a religion, just don‘t expect me to contribute to the State’s coffers.
Report Post »SouthSideLib
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 4:03pmA magic man in the sky isn’t a reasonable answer to that question
Report Post »AmericanAtheistNavyVet
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 4:31pmCindy G, we Atheists find it necessary to train incompetent believers how to spell, capitalize proper nouns & instruct them away from other errors before proceeding to answer their braggingly stupid questions. The so called big bang theory is not a “BAND” NOR are Atheists lower case objects. Your foolish question reveals your ignorance of logic & a false assumption about science. Any intelligent science student over the age of ten can tell you that The Big Bang Theory is based upon observation of stars, observation of particle physics here on earth in laboratory experiments & a logical prediction of test results back into time. No single cosmologist makes claims as to events prior to a big bang which is evidenced by back ground radiation ambient in all of observable space. Thus you set up a straw man to knock down which also begs the logical question of whether matter can be created or destroyed. Science for over a century has confirmed neither is possible. Matter and it’s indwelling property energy is all that is in space. In all of our observations we have found zero gods creating anything. Your Jeebus Jehobah Ghost Hole alleged baby god & ******* virgin mom is senseless stupidly irrelevant to the big band theory, unless you sing & dance to it. 843-926-1750 Dial an Atheist & stay away from us in WDC next month. DC park police will keep you from interfering with our events, our Atheists in Foxholes March had 3 dozen nuts like you restricted to a single zone.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 5:26pm@ CONSERVATIVE FRESHMAN……….Ah I have stumbled across an actual thinker. It is very refreshing and rare. You are exactly right in your assessment. Agnostics come the closest to not being religious. Of course those like LOTUS and a few others like to spew false reasoning and then stand back like they are so intellectual superior. The only thing the end up mocking is their own limited ability to critical think and reason.
Report Post »@ SILICONVALLEYDAN…….That was just ridiculous and hardly worth any effort to address. You started out well then drove right off the cliff with a stupid and false generalization that atheists are more moral than Christians. That was simply opinion and certainly not supported by reason in any way. I would say even a weak misguided and ridiculous conclusion that exposes a prejudice individual rather than an objective evaluation. Try again after reading a bit more.
@ JEEBUSKILLER…….your little rant obviously was not given much thought. For you described things that by definition are or are not. For instance hair is or is not. However, religion is a set of beliefs that answers 4 basic questions across all times and cultures (I’ll let you do your own homework as to what those are). Let me unravel your non sequitur for you. Atheism is not Christianity=true, but to say that Atheism is not a religion because Christianity is a religion is a fallacy. A collie is not a poodle=true, but to say a collie is not a dog is just foolish logic.
binge_thinker
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 5:46pm@ AtheistNavyvet
Fear of the cross is the atheist’s demonstration of his fear of his own failure. His religion is already dead, and his philosophy has double crossed him.
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:16pm@ watchtheotherhand – actually my “opinion” is backed by research: http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/Zuckerman_on_Atheism.pdf
In addition, you might look at this large collection of research papers that show that religious belief is inversely correlated with intelligence: http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/iq_relig.htm
Report Post »MarsBarsTru7
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:18pmWhat’s funny is that the attempts at atheism to force secularization on Americans has been failing for a century, and it has failed so much that they now actually feel compelled to proselytize.
Proselytize. Really atheists? Besides being hypocritical on a fundamental level, I can’t help but laugh at the prospect of proselytizing the religion of embracing oblivion.
The Christian message: God created our existence. God loves us. We have an eternal soul. We’re all fallible. Accept God‘s forgiveness offered through Christ’s sacrifice, love one another, and live to be better every day than you were the day before.
The atheist message: Don’t believe in God. There is no reason for anything. It doesn’t matter if you exist or not. Oblivion awaits us all.
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:24pm@marsbarstru7 – you are wrong, we are winning: http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/living/us.religion.less.christian_1_american-religious-identification-survey-christian-nation-evangelical?_s=PM:LIVING
Report Post »iono12345
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:30pmMan I so love this subject, it just goes to show how screwed up people really are, how fragile the human mind really is, how belief systems have retarded the growth of humanity,. I’m blown away when a person believes they can base their arguments or beliefs on skewed and inaccurate history from thousands of years ago. Many of you think that Islam is nuts, well that’s how an atheist views all of you and the religions that you follow, you are all nuts…Remember the theory of the atom is only 100 years old and look how far we have come in proving a this theory, there is so much more to come in the world of science. Do the world a favor have your children put down their religious text and pickup a science book, maybe they will cure cancer, feed the world, stop wars and so on, main stream religion only has excuses for reasons we cannot do things…we need to grow up as our humanity is at stake…
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:54pm@SILICON
I take it you believe yourself to have a fairly impressive IQ ?
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:24pm@therightsofbilly – that would be huge leap, all we can guess from the research is that it is likely that I would have a higher IQ than any random person that believed in God. As both references I pointed to show, belief in God is also inversely correlated with education which is not the same as intelligence. Why do you think it is that intelligence and education reduce the likelihood someone will believe in God?
Report Post »bloptop
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:06pmOk how about this: If god created the universe, how did god begin? Both questions are like a dog chasing his tail. Go agnostic, its easier and less idiotic
Report Post »swift_driver
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:56pm@ SillyCON
I have read several of your comments and it is clear that you are as closed minded as you are ill informed. Try cherry picking something a little more recent than some three year old article to make your arguments if you can.
The latest Gallup poll from June of 2011 goes a long way in refuting your bogus claims and outright lies. If anything the “movement” of atheism is stagnant and dead at around 6% where it has been for decades while 92% of people surveyed believe in God.
Report Post »That’s what one might call a landslide loss for you and your side.
Sucks to be you.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147887/americans-continue-believe-god.aspx
watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:12pm@ SILLYCONDON………Your conclusions are extremely flawed. I laughed heartily at your comment regarding education and belief in God. Especially given some of your deductions and comments on this thread.
@ IONO…….You my little misinformed atheist need to do a bit more reading of your history. Many of the early scientists that contributed greatly to our current knowledge base and made remarkable discoveries in numerous fields of science were men and women of faith. Of course science discoveries are beneficial. Even in your prejudice mind you have to acknowledge that if God exists as a creator then science belongs to Him as it would merely be a reflection of His truth displayed in the physical manifestations of things that are and exist. The existence of scientific truth and our ability to explain things to a point do not disprove or exclude the existence of a creator God. Here is a test. Explain in detail why an atom holds together? My guess you don’t even understand the question or the scientific dilemma…..
Report Post »trotula
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 12:01amWatchtheotherhand: What holds atoms together, or rather the quarks that are believed to make up the protons and neutrons that make up the atoms, is called, “The Strong Force,” if I’m not mistaken. That is how physicists come up with their answers. They observe a phenomenon, write and equation that can describe it and make predictions, and then call it a Law of Physics. All it explains is HOW. It does not answer WHY. Atheists believe there IS NO why, people of faith believe there is. None of this has anything to do with intelligence. By the way, those atheists who want to ride that, “I’m smarter than you” trip…bear in mind, Albert Einstein talked about his belief in God all the time.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 12:05am@SILICON Says:
“Why do you think it is that intelligence and education reduce the likelihood someone will believe in God?”
I don’t think that Silicon. Don’t believe it for a second. Not the intelligence part anyway.
I have seen plenty of so called “free thinkers” come on here boasting of their intelligence. Many going so far as to claim superiority when it comes to IQ scores. (I at least give you some credit for not being quite as pompous as most).
When I then point out to them that a high IQ often coexists with an inability to think and behave in a rational manner, and also with a lack of certain cognitive skills, they become belligerent and then go on to further prove the point.
There are different kinds of intelligence, wisdom, common sense, and street smarts that combine to truly make one “wise”.
The ability to prattle on about any particular topic and come across sounding like an authority, and posting links to any number of biased “studies” is easy today, and means little.
Now when it comes to the mention of the “education” factor in your assertion above, that’s a no brainer.
The more time one spends in today’s “so called” educational system, the more he or she has been indoctrinated by Godless, left wing Ideologues.
Make sense?
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 12:42am@Swift_Driver – When they changed the question to “do you believe in God as a universal spirit” That is a far cry from someone that creates universes and answers prayers. Such a person may not believe in Jesus, heaven, hell, afterlife, the Bible, and they may well accept evolution, the big bang, abortion, birth control and whatever. I know many people like that. In fact, on dating websites they have a category “spiritual but not religious.“ If you also look at other ways of asking when asked the question ”how important is religion in your life” the number of people to whom it is important is declining rapidly. With the huge attack the Christians are making on education lately it might turn around and we will be expecting more and more poverty as the undereducated people in the country fail to find work appropriate for the 21st Century and the US is surpassed by other countries that value education. But I am optimistic and think that the numbers I am citing here show that the majority of people are finding ways that are not so dogmatic. Heck, I know Episcopals that do not believe in an afterlife. Here people are talking about burning in hell, the 2nd coming, Jesus forgiving your sins, the whole 9 yards. That is the kind of stuff that is going away.
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 12:44ambilly, I guessed before I even wrote it that your argument would be “I don’t need to address any of the dozens of studies referred to in the papers, or even read them because they were done by liberals and must be wrong.” What a joke
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 2:07am@SILICON
And at the same time you fail to address any of my assertions. You kind of punted.
I read quite a few of your “studies”.
They are what led me to write what I did.
I can spend a bit of time searching the net just as you did, and I can come up with just as many studies that counter yours. What does that prove? It proves that any idiot can pretend to be a scholar these days.
I also find it interesting and illuminating that in your earlier post, you used the following phrase.
“We are winning”
What exactly does that mean?
Do you consider this a war?
The Godless atheists vs. The People of faith?
I do believe that is your mindset.
You, MODERATIONISBEST, and the rest.
See you on the next go round Skippy.
Report Post »wesinLR
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 9:18amI do know why people would want to go there… let them have the anti religion meeting.. they can all stand around and sing, make each other feel smart (its very important that they feel they are smart)
Report Post »deep down they have a flaw that will not allow then to accept the fact there are things which cant be explained, but that in no way makes them untrue. in the war religion vrs science… religion predicted the returning of the Jewish people’s homeland… science told us in the 70′s we would be in an ice age by now. They love to point a christian not doing right as a reason to not believe in God. but large numbers of the science crowd made false statements in the current global warming con.
so let them have the good times.. let them all gather and mock the beliefs of other people. its not like the veiw of a buch of hate mongers really matter in much… just be happy with the knowledge one day they will believe.. it could be to late when they do… and the mocking they enjoy today will come back and remind them of how wrong in life they truly are…
watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 9:41am@ TORTULA………Thank you for demonstrating exactly my point and what I assumed. Your answer reveals that you don’t even understand the real question I asked or the problem that it poses for science as we understand it do you? All you did was a Google search and attached a fancy name to something I doubt seriously you understand. Prove me wrong and explain what the problem is for science with regards to the atom and its construction. Hint: Our current theories do not explain the problem and second hint “we just don’t know yet” doesn’t solve the problem. Let’s see if anyone on here that is so high minded in science can answer this question ???????????
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 9:43amIn discussing the intelligence factor, BILLY said:
There are different kinds of intelligence, wisdom, common sense, and street smarts that combine to truly make one “wise”.
——————————————————————————————————————
Excellent point, BILLY! I would add that Christians welcome, love and include people from every walk of life whereas atheists tend to attract like-minded people of “reason”. Having volunteered at a homeless shelter in a mid-sized city for years, I have never once went when an atheist group showed up to volunteer but it is always Christian organizations. Further, the homeless guests we serve often comment how they feel loved and welcomed. Many praise God for the food and the volunteers.
Is intellect the sole indicator of a whole person? If (a big IF) the atheist studies of intellect are correct, I’d far rather be surrounded by persons who may possess a few decimal points (the liberal-leaning studies I’ve seen are between 4 and 6 points) less intellect who have a Godly moral grounding and a compassionate heart.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 9:55am@ SILLYVALLEYDON……..You do realize that statistics are the most easily manipulated form of “evidence” around correct??? Especially data with an agenda and less than objective design and method. Education is often dependent on the views of the teachers. I’m sure even you see the problem with trying to nullify a belief based on intelligence?? Maybe not. I’m sure an Islamic leader could debate you under a table in regards to Islam because they have been educated in it. You may or may not be less intelligent. But neither speaks to the reality or fallacy of Islam. Of course, being a humanist you only observe from one perspective, because you are a minister of the gospel of “humanism” you are no more objective in approach to the topic than the Islamist is unless you work to drop your prejudice and examine real evidence objectively. Ask yourself from which perspective was the designers of your “data” approaching the topic. Were they entirely objective? I think the answer is quite clear. Of course, I could produce data that shows people of faith are happier, more productive, less likely to be addicted, their children tend to be more well-adjusted, etc etc. I’m sure you would except those readily, right?
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument, and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is condemnation before investigation………..
Edmund Spence
Report Post »eliwhit
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 1:16pmNo the reason is that at that point you reach the ir mindless parasitic point in them. Gotcha Athiest mindless wonders! Their problem is that they have been Narcisistic all of their poor little lives and since they spend most of their lives admiring themselves! Therefor they are LEGENDS IN THEIR OWN MINDS!
Report Post »phishing4men
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 1:23pmDEAVONREYE
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 1:23pm
Uh, no. You can make “the hebrew prophets” say anything you want in order for it to appear “prophetic”. But you do so by throwing out the other parts of those stories that don’t correspond to “the future event” or turn around concepts so that “they were allegorical”.
Sorry, but the “prophets” are unconvincing
Report Post »No one is trying to convince you of anything, ignorance cannot be convinced so live it up while you can.
lillith goby
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 6:08pmI was free wheeling in deep thinking after watched that Asian physicist on the Big Bang theory and he goes so far as to say it all originated out of matter so super concentrated that it could fit onto less than a pinhead.
I kind of laughed being kind of an artist and poet and thought, why can artists and poet’s take it to out of absolutely nothing came absolutely everything? Science is of man but could not have gone past the ape stage without God tweaking and inspiring, IMO.
Why can’t a physicist see that “God may have been so great that out of nothing his greatness burst forth”/
Not my personal belief as my religious tradition has God locked into the laws of the Universe for performing miracles. But poetically, why not revel and marvel at his greatness? All things to be known are not now known.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 6:30pm@ Phishing4men
“No one is trying to convince you of anything, ignorance cannot be convinced so live it up while you can.”
You are free to believe the false “prophecies” that your church has brainwashed you into believing, but be sure you realize that the ignorance you speak of is upon you alone. Your religion speaks of “not taking things out of context” . . . . except when it comes to “prophecy”. Sorry, but that is absurd. Bible “prophecy” is what it is. . . only because christianity NEEDS it to be true. That’s why vague references “must be talking about Jesus”. You take one section, toss aside [from the same story/account] what doesn’t fit, and claim it as “wonderous”.
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 7:19pm@billy. I did not have to spend time searching. I am educated in sociology of religion and those papers are well known by educated people. They are well regarded and there are discussions of them that are in peer reviewed journals and reasonable quality. I‘ll be you can’t find them and you can just find some blowhard on a blog somewhere. There are at least 75 papers there including the references. I have read most of them, I teach statistics (among other things) so I have a good idea if they did a good job at the studies. If you can actually come up with anything that has valid data and a good argument I would like to see it. There are many, many studies that correlate education level with religious belief and they reach the same conclusion, the less educated you are, the more likely you are to believe in things like a god you can pray to, that created the universe and so on. The assertions that it would take longer than the universe for life to appear are simply wrong, there is life, there is no reason whatsoever to think that an intelligence had anything to do with it. If you really understood how physics, molecular biology and probability worked you would understand that. You huff and puff and say that people who disagree with are not logical, or are stupid, but I backed up my arguments with research. Name calling is a logical fallacy so YOU are being illogical.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 9:55pmAtheists posting here……a few sincere questions if you don’t mind. I hear atheists here often say how they are bound by their own moral conduct. I’m honestly wanting to understand the authenticity behind your words.
How much do you give to charities as a percentage of your income after tax?
How often time do you volunteer each week/month?
How many meals have you served to the homeless?
How many orphanages have you volunteered at?
How many children do you sponsor in third world countries with monthly commitments? For how many years? How many letters have you written to those children?
How many natural disasters have you lent hands in service?
In what tangible ways are you consistently showing your moral conduct?
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 11:21pmHey Silicon Valley Don
You claim to be an educator?
If that post was written by someone that is responsible for the education of our youth, we are doomed.
Your post was a clinical example of my comment about someone being able to prattle on endlessly while trying to look smart.
And you still did not address any of my assertions.
And it really doesn’t do a whole lot of good to list all of your grand accomplishments and qualifications. Being anonymous and all.
Otherwise I would have been up front with you about my being a widely published archaeologist .
Report Post »Peer reviewed and all.
Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 11:24pmHey COPATRIOTS
I saw you mention William Lane Craig somewhere recently.
Just thought I’d let you know that there is some interesting things on YOUTUBE.
Just search his name there.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 11:40pm@ SILLYCONDON………Being a self proclaimed higher educated individual perhaps you can explain to me how the level of one’s education has any direct bearing upon the reality or fallacy of the existence of a Supreme Being, especially since level of education cannot even predict intelligence level? I couldn’t give a flying f@@t who thinks what or if they were educated by Einstein. It means absolutely zilch in regard to this discussion. And I still would like you to lQQk at other parameters/characteristics besides education level. If you are objective and are as well versed as you say, you already know what they say, don’t you? You being a sociologist with unlimited access to peer reviews should have no problem with that request, right? I shouldn’t have to list what or where, correct? Let’s see if your man/woman enough to post those results truthfully……If you want me to accept yours then you will accept those correct?????????
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 12:31amThanks BILLY…..and will do. But fill in the blanks please.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 12:35amBut before I do……. I’ve been sensing disturbance about all this “reason” going on. As you can tell in my comment above, there’s a point at which “reason” seems merely prideful and we must display human compassion. I felt (and still do) that somehow we lose the soul in all the intellectual reasoning. Does that make sense?
Okay….now I’ll check Youtube….since its still a week before I must quit all things Google. LOL
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 1:51am@ BILLY
Is your inference that Craig seemingly suggests Jews, Christians and Muslims believe the same God created the universe? Or is there something else I’m missing?
Thank you for indulging my questions.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 5:58pm@COPATRIOTS
Mr. Craig is new to me also. I started searching the net for him when I saw you mention that someone else told you about him earlier.
When I came across all the entries on Youtube, I thought I would let you know about it. I have not really delved in to watching much of them yet, but plan to soon.
So there was no real inference intended in my post.
Now your earlier post, even though I’m not really sure what you were asking, it did cause me to reflect on the manner in which I reply to some people here, and I have to admit that sometimes I find myself not being the type of person that I would like to be, or should be.
So I am going to work on being a bit more Christian in my conversations.
My best to you
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 6:21pmI’m sorry, BILLY! I wasn’t chastising you in any way with my above post about compassion.. I realized after I asked my question about Craig that I may have misunderstood your point. I’m very new to him also but have benefited much already from his seemingly very gifted intellect. Here is his direct website for further learning if you’re interested.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=q_and_a_archive
My compassion questions above were in no way directed to you! My point more was to inquire of atheists to think beyond reason to their moral standard……and the subsequent benefit of Christians and Christianity. Interestingly and not surprisingly, not one atheist answered. It was more a reminder to all that we aren’t solely intellectual-reasoning beings. If all we care about is who wins the argument of “if God” in this life…….well, really, we all lose.
I appreciate your input and posts! I am sorry I misread your intent. Meanwhile…..may His face shine upon you!
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 6:32pmAnd I now see what you saw. : ) The disturbance I was suggesting wasn’t directed at your posts but was more a general comment to discuss with you of all posts…….especially concerning the youth. It seems that being correct in a argument is more important than having compassion. Further, I meant “pride and arrogance” more toward those arguing for atheistic reasoning but, in retrospect, it seems reasoning for God without compassion could also be fit my comment. Again, in no way, was I directing that comment specifically to you…..was more an observation after reading many of the comments noted here.
Please forgive an unintended personal affront.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 7:17pm@COPATRIOTS
Please don’t worry, there was absolutely no offense taken whatsoever.
But like I said, I did make me reflect just a little, and I’m glad it did.
I always try to look for ways to be better.
I did not think you were chastising me at all.
I just got a little confused as to what you were asking, and that me think a bit.
I will look forward to discussing some of his videos after I get a chance to review some of them.
Thanks for the website link by the way.
Talk to you soon.
Report Post »waspanglosaxon
Posted on February 27, 2012 at 12:14amActually, most atheists adhere to an extreme philosophy based in the bowels of the Lunatic Left, one in which any natural concept of God must be vehemently denied, so that the atheist’s mind, body and soul may totally be 100% devoted to the more strict and narrow vision of leftist nirvana: race-mixing, disrespect for life, zionism, socialism, internationalism (e.g., championing illegal immigration) etc. These “atheists” are the types who make up the membership of the CPUSA, the SPLC, the NLG, etc. They are more fervent adherents to their looney causes than any others; most may be willing to give up their lives for their beliefs, the atheists even will give up their souls for their non-beliefs.
Report Post »T.Charles
Posted on February 27, 2012 at 1:23pm“When asked for a response on the “Big Band Theory,” they can not answer where the particles came from to begin with? How did they form? How does SOMETHING come from absolutely NOTHING?”
Yet Theists believe God created the universe out of nothing.
Report Post »How can something be created out of nothing?
Where did God get the material to create the universe?
KGFox
Posted on February 28, 2012 at 12:03pmThe “first particle” argument is a good one. The argument on the other side I have to counter is: Well the Big Bang, based on physics and math is a better theory than “It was some magical man living in space”. That’s just childish superstition! Those with no faith will call physics and mathematics reason? they will burn in hell .
Report Post »MemphisViking
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 8:10amT Charles, God did not need to get matter from somewhere, He created it out of nothing. There is no contradiction there. This is only a problem for atheists. They don’t believe in the supernatural, so they have to come up with some way for nothing to naturally become something.
Report Post »Lotus4115
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 1:11pmMemphisViking watch:
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo
philosoraptor
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 9:59pmOkay, I swore I would never do this… since you know, as the offensive but apt joke puts it, “arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics…”, but I’m outraged when I see the great Albert Einstein misquoted or misrepresented as being a believer. Here are some actual quotes, but still I encourage others to actually do some research for yourself.
“I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.” – Albert Einstein
“I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.” – Albert Einstein
(Also, I have to admit I didn’t have the patience to finish all these comments to know if someone before me already corrected the misquoter, forgive me.)
Report Post »philosoraptor
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 10:13pmAnd heck, since I’ve made the leap to post on this ridiculous thread, here’s my pitch:
I was a member of an evangelical Christian fundamentalist church for about 8 years as a youth, and for most of that time I was just as much of a nut-job believer as some of the folks commenting here. Trust me when I say I’ve heard all of (and even used some of) the arguments, so spare me any nonsense rebuttal. Where was I? Oh, obviously I am fortunate enough that I was able to snap out of it before the perceived “point of no return”, if you will, and reject the institution of organized religion. I think this stemmed from religion not being able to answer all of my questions to my satisfaction, as well as observing the negative effects of Christianity on the individual and society firsthand (though I would not be able to intelligently identify or argue this until later). I still remained spiritual, even Christian to some degree for years, eventually embracing science and reason to the point where I consider myself an… Agnostic Atheist? If there is such a thing. Looking back on my own reluctance to completely let go of all supernatural beliefs, I’d say without a doubt it was due to the fear instilled in me so deeply as a child. Fear of the unimaginable amount of eternal torment one was sure to endure by denying Christ! Now, there are many different motivators in religion, since different ones compel different people, but fear worked for me. Now, if that type of child brain-washing.
Report Post »philosoraptor
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 10:18pm…were to occur for any other purpose, it would be an outrage. But this garbage happens every day, and thus perpetuates itself. I’ll leave that as my one point to take away, if anyone reads this. That, and do some research! Don’t fear secular literature, I promise it’s not (as my parents maintain) influenced by Satan to get the world to doubt god. Help yourselves.
Report Post »RockAndRollah
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 5:53pmWhat kind of Big Band? Swing? Western Swing? Jazz?
Report Post »GodisaFarce
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 4:33amAtheism is not a religion. This is just a gathering of fellow atheist. It is not like we meetup every Sunday. It was not until the social media came about that we even met at all. You people dont like science because science is killing your god. Just as Christians once thought that thunder and lightning was the angry hand of god. Ben Franklin went out and killed that notion by flying a kite in a thunderstorm and finding that lightning was merely electricity and complete natural and not supernatural.
Report Post »GodisaFarce
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 11:42amWhat in the world is the big BAND theory. I am not familiar with this big BAND. How much bigger is it to other BANDS?
Report Post »PointsOutStupidity
Posted on March 25, 2012 at 6:05pmDo you have an answer as to why God just existed? Who existed before him? Who made him?
You don’t. Because it doesn’t fit your agenda.
Report Post »truthspeare
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:58amI love all people, even those who do not believe in a superior being. The view my hope for them and me as written in John 3:16 as mindless, stupid, arrogant …make up any mocking or depracating term you want. But, we live in America, a country founded by Christians. My family roots trace back to Jamestown, this makes me the biggest fool of them all in some of their eyes. I guess I accept the criticism. On the issue of John 3:16, if they be right, the worms get the best all in the end; however, if they be wrong, it will suck to be them in the end. Let us pray that all make it to a good place one way or the other. I will not hate them. They have a right to their opinion.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:04amAgain, . . . Pascal’s Wager is fundamentally flawed.
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:38amAmerica is a secular nation.
Report Post »Jeetman
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 3:28amLainejmoore said:
America is a secular nation.
The government and the Supreme Court tell us we are a secular nation but our traditions and heritage tell us different which is why the polls tell us that the majority by a good margin believe in God.
Report Post »am123
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:49amMany atheists may be intelligent, but in the end they are the biggest fools of all, for they have examined the evidence of this awesome universe we live in and come to the most foolish judgment one can make of it all, the most absurd conclusion one can come to, and that is, there is no Creator behind it all.
Atheism is pox on society. It is as Sir Isaac Newton called it, “senseless and odious”. Atheism drags morality down to animalistic levels with its moral relativity. And there are no uplifting and noble qualities to it, like Jesus taught us about caring for the least among us. Instead, inhumanity is elevated over love and goodness in a survival of the fittest mentality (atheism goes hand in hand with eugenics). Atheism can only debase society. For example, when it comes to the arts, the truly great artists in history, like Michelangelo, received inspiration from God above. And since art reflects the inspiration of the artist, his artwork was inspiring and uplifting. Any inspiration from an atheist on the other hand, can only reflect base, coarse, earthly things. And so instead of being uplifting, any so-called art from atheists can only debase and degrade. But such is the folly of atheism.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:01amExplain how it is “foolish” to find naturalistic explainations for that which is seen in nature??? O_o It wasn’t that long ago in human history that people thought it was Zeus [God of gods] that caused lightning. Even the bible made claims that lightning got their orders from god as to where they should strike. We no longer believe that . . . because of the “foolish” scientific method [of which created the ability for you to type your message on your computer and use GPS to find a destination].
Holy crap, people, . . . . what IS it with you all? You make baseless claims and defame people based upon their lack of a religion. MANY atheists are good people and are no different than you. They just don’t believe in a god. Yet they STILL love their families, work to provide, and even give their time and money to the less fortunate. O_o
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:31am@DeavonReye:
I actually agree with you in a way. I find it perfectly fine for scientists to try and figure out how God makes certain things happen such as lightning or how he made the eye work. It shows just how much work he put into it.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:49amOccam’s Razor.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:58am@DeavonReye:
We agree again.
Report Post »infidelible
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 2:25pmIf we live in an awesome universe and the conclusion is that it must need a creator, then wouldn’t it follow that your awesome god needs a creator too? And if the universe was created, from what vantage did god use? Where was he? Clearly he was not in reality as he had not yet created reality. So wouldn’t it follow, if reality did not exist, god is not real? If he is the creator, he can not be natural as nature existed from his will.
Philosophically, the god as creator is a non-starter. I can say with 100% certainty that there was not a god as creator. If you are inclined to ignore this observation, then you are left to determine if god is active in your life and is it a net benefit to spend any time actively attempting to engage him? Multiple experiments have been done, sponsored by the very pro-religion Templeton Institute to demonstrate that prayer works. Using variable controlled experiments it has been shown that no benefit can be positively correlated with prayer (don’t worry, that has not deterred the Templeton folks from their faith). People who are anti-god can materially prosper and people who are pro-god can suffer greatly (Job ring a bell?) so there does not seem to be an advantage to faith, There are more worthwhile texts to study for success; start with How to Make Friends and Influence People.
Now for the fun part, eternity. There is no evidence to suggest death is not final, that you have anything more than this life. Use it well, make it
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:18pm@Deavonreye: If the ‘God theory’ only came about a few thousand years ago(which is true), why aren’t there extensive historical records that we came from cavemen, or Neanderthal? Why isn‘t there more concrete evidence of the ’hunter/gatherer’ society, where are the ‘folk tales’ of our ancestors? What I see is historical fact/evidence that Jesus lived, that there was a man named Jesus that performed miracles. That Jesus, as historical fact, was crucified and did resurrect. Are you saying that the Apostles are also figments of everyone’s imagination? Was Stephen stoned for a myth?
Report Post »lisa2994
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:49amHow watching the world today and claiming to know the bible as some athiests do can you not see the world is coming to a close just as GOD said it would!
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:39amHmmm… where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, every generation since Christianity was founded.
Report Post »trotula
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:47amWell, I don’t know, guys. I mean, at least the malice and cruelty is soft spoken. Give the guy a break here.
Report Post »mjhoman
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:40amI do not care who you are, what your beliefs, whether a Athiest, Stanist, Catholic, other Christian, a Scientist, what have you, there is always someone that will be the opposite. And since everyone wants to be heard orseen like spoiled children, this does not shock me one bit. Listen to the religious and they talk about the none believers, then you go to the other extreme… and you have the opposite. Like hot and cold, male and female, a solid and a gas… opposites are part of our life. Grew up or grew a pair!
Report Post »NOTHNBUTTRUTH
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:20amI never felt like a “free thinker” until I invited Jesus Christ into my heart. Now I am TRULY free
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:13pmYou know, except that it’s a sin to think about certain things.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 2:16pm@LAINE
What name did you go by before today?
That’s Saul Folks
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 5:19pm@Laine: You know, we’re all sinners. Nobody lives in sinless perfection. So your point is?
Report Post »acovenantinblood
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:39amIt’s funny how they always tote that they believe in reason. Anyone ever notice that everything that Atheism has produced is uncivilized and barbaric? Our Christian Founding Fathers had rules of civility. They set up a legitimate government, raised an army and declared independence to fight a war to have a freedom loving government based upon Old and New Testament ideals. France was an Atheist revolution that was nothing short of barbaric animals perpetrating a bloodbath which led right back into a dictatorship. How about Russia? China? All based on Atheism. So much for reason.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/
http://www.creationtoday.org/
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:59amWhere did you get the idea that the French Revolution was an atheist revolution? Robespierre for one was quite severe with elements who wanted to substitute a “religion of reason” for his preferred “religion of a supreme being.”
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:41amWow, just wow. You are basically the Christian equivalent of Muslim holocaust deniers.
Report Post »JJBlazeReader
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:55am..
Lloyd drako
This is part of the overall problem, you have been ill taught. It is common knowledge that the French Revolution was an atheist based revolution while the American Revolution was theist based.
You mention the goddess of reason; did you know that during the French Revolution they formally made a prostitute “the goddess of reason” and then later decided she wasn’t revolutionary enough so they sent her to the guillotine.
Robespierre was a blood thirsty animal – I pray that you are at least aware of that.
..
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 3:06pmYes, I am quite aware that Robespierre was a bloodthirsty tyrant. He was also ferociously theist. Among his victims were the leaders of a faction that sponsored the so-called “Cult of Reason,“ which had presented a prostitute as a fake ”Goddess of Reason.” Robespierre was having none of that. After dispatching the atheist faction to the guillotine, he sponsored his own “Cult of the Supreme Being,” i.e. “God.” Not Christianity, but not atheism either.
The French Revolution did indeed confiscate the property of the Catholic Church, and numerous victims of the Terror were Catholic clergy. But most of the revolutionary leaders of the period 1789-1799 were deists of one sort of another, like many prominent figures in the American Revolution such as Thomas Paine and Ethan Allen. It is not at all “common knowledge” that the French Revooution was atheistic, except among people who get their knowledge of history from the likes of Glenn Beck. Be as ignorant as you like, but do not advertise it.
Report Post »JJBlazeReader
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 3:24pm..
if you think Robiespierre was a theist, you are far from reality.
try PHD
Report Post »..
SouthSideLib
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 4:08pmThose early americans that you’re heaping so much praise on were slave owners who slaughtered the people who were already here
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 4:55pmA theist is simply someone who believes in one or more gods, whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Greek, Roman, whatever. Robespierre was a deist–that is, the sort of theist who believes in a single creator-god who more or less set the universe running and then left it alone. The sort of god advanced by ID, if you like. All deists are theists, but not all theists are deists. Got it?
There is little point in arguing with people who persist in willful ignorance. However, if you’d care to educate yourself on the subject of the French Revolution, I can point you toward numerous worthy sources. Start with Thomas Carlyle’s “The French Revolution.” I recommend Carlyle because he was a deep-dyed conservative who can hardly be accused of understating the excesses of 1789-1799.
Report Post »JJBlazeReader
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:06pm..
I agree Lloyd you are too steeped in indoctrination to understand the difference between the American Revolution and the French Revolution.
You are not a seeker of truth but a seeker of that which confirms you viewpoint.
..
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 9:07amJJBlazeReader:
Report Post »And I agree that there were huge differences between the American and French Revolutions. But a simple contrast between Christian piety and “atheism” does not suffice to explain why the French, unlike the American, culminated in a Reign of Terror and a military dictatorship. How much in fact do you actually know about the French Revolution? Do you understand why it turned against, not religion as such, but the established Catholic Church? It had as much to do with government finances as with doctrinaire atheism or deism. What do you know about the “flight to Varennes?” the role of aristocratic emigres? the Brunswick Manifesto? the uprising in the Vendee? When you are conversant with these and not just with the usual talking points, please, come back and we can “talk.” Seriously.
JJBlazeReader
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 7:55pm..
Lloyd Drako,
I would say that I know more and I am more familiar with this topic than you will ever be. I also know the difference between someone who has been indoctrinated versus someone who has been educated and has critical thinking abilities.
I do not waste my time on the former.
Report Post »..
Lloyd Drako
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 11:44pmI sincerely doubt that you know more about the French Revolution than I do, or you would surely have devoted some space to the particulars I mentioned–the Civil Constitution, Varennes, and the rest. Since you did not, but merely rehearsed your spiel about “indoctrination” once again, I am forced to conclude that your claims to profound understanding–whether of me or of the Revolution–are hollow. The issue between us is, again, “Was the French Revolution essentially atheist in character?” Not, were there atheists circling around the margins, but was it fundamentally atheist? The answer is no. Anti-clerical, yes, atheist, no. Can you present evidence to the contrary? I’m still waiting for a substantive answer, rather than a personal innuendo. I suspect I’ll be waiting for a long time.
Report Post »UBETHECHANGE
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:35amThe Baal Rally.
Report Post »LogicalMetaphysician
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:07amBaal Rally: Nailed it.
Report Post »YAHSHUARULES
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:31amFor any that might not know the whole significance of that statement, take the time to watch GBTV the archive of Feb 2,2012 very eye opening. Rabbi Lapin was Glenn’s guest and he spent a good hour explaining what Baal is and how that evil is in our midst today. He shows how Woodstock, Altamont and OWS are all its manifestations. Check it out good hour that answers alot of questions. And Rabbi Lapin a practicing orthodox Jew says he has one perscription to rid us of this very ancient evil in our midst and its for a Christian Revivial. He says nothing will turn this around short of a Christian Revial.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:05pmI tend to agree with Glenn Beck on most topics, . . .but the one about Ba’al was ridiculous. People are who they are. They don’t need any “influences” behind them. What is most revealing is that most of the crap that goes on in the world, . . . does so in highly religious countries.
Report Post »speaker-nightlight
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 2:30pmThis whole discussion so far has ignored a basic truth, and that is faith in God is a gift. Many have not received that gift as yet, and so they don’t know what else to do but to try to make sense of a senseless world the best way they can, and they have chosen the route of humanism. Their route (unknowing to them) is a route that worships and empowers the demon baal, a sad thing because they do not know they death and destruction they support by supporting this demon’s horrific power in this world. The bottom line is that those without the gift of God’s understanding, of faith, have no choice but to try to work out some kind order for their chaotic world. Talking to someone who is not holding a gift does not help them receive it- we must find out their names and pray for them to have a heart that is such God chooses to bestow them with the gift of faith. Our knees fall because theirs are unable to, our heads must bow in the place of theirs, and our hands must raise in worship as a substitute for theirs for now. We must pray, my friends, for these poor souls who do not realize they are struggling to provide and explanation that does not fit because they do not have all the pieces of information. This information, called faith does not come by thinking, for if we could think out God,God He would not be. These poor persons are trying to think out God, and when they cannot they quit looking. May we take their weakness and their lack and turn it into constant prayer. A
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 3:35pm@DEAVON
Then we can expect to see you in here frequently stating your agreement with most things BECK?
No, of course not, how silly of me to think that you have any credibility whatsoever.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 4:26pmWhen it is topics off the religious, I usually agree. What is so hard to understand about that? You’re just another one of the “attack their character” christians who hope that doing so will mean “you’ve won the debate”. Well, we all know that such thinking is BS. Right?
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:13pmNo Deavo,
My point was that you claim to agree with Glenn on most things thinking that it will gain you favor here, and that people will take you seriously.
But yet you never make the effort to log in and post anything positive about any of those other topics you claim to be in agreement with.
But you are always Johnny on the spot when it’s time to join in on one of the atheistic religion bashing festivals.
Why is that?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 9:38amMost of the time, I don’t see a reason to be a “yes man” with those topics. Sometimes I HAVE made comments. The reason why I am mostly posting on these types of topics is because there is usually a lot of misinformation included and so I feel the need to “set the record straight”, so to speak.
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 1:37pmDawkins and Hitchens give Atheists a bad name and are not representative. They just want (wanted in Hitchens’ case) to go on talk shows.
Report Post »VoteRightDammit
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:33amInsecure little twits, these (and most) atheists. I don‘t see why so many of you can’t see that.
Look – if atheists actually BELIEVED in their version of faith they would feel no compunction to accost anyone or ‘spread their non-word’. After all – in their view – a age 80 or so you simply become worm food. No upside there; no benefit in getting others to believe it – in the end you will become worm food if you are a believing atheist or not (again, in their view). So, there is no reason to combat non-atheists and ‘turn’ them.
But they ARE combative; they DO feel compelled to convince others that the ATHEIST way is the “right” way.
Only one reason an atheist feels that way: insecure to the core about their faith.
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:46amSecular Americans are the last true Americans who stand for real American values. This nation is great because it has a wall of separation between church and state and it is the only reason we haven’t devolved into a third world theocracy like many countries in the middle east. You people are systematically chipping away at that wall of separation and the country is suffering for it and that is why atheists and secular supporters are rallying at this time in history, we are trying to save this nation.
Report Post »swift_driver
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:01pm@ Lanie
That’s so cute. I bet you actually believe that too. Basically, atheists are the laughing stocks of our society.
Report Post »They are obsessive personalities who can’t get the God-idea out of their heads. They are particularly upset by the idea of an angry or punishing god. Never underestimate the shallow emotional charge behind atheism. And always note how a Dawkins or Harris present themselves as people of “superior” rationality, scientific “brights”. But it is a narcissistic veneer with many holes.
With luck, these obsessive, compulsive atheists will keep the God-idea alive for centuries.
Flame on!!
Bronco Guy
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:32amYou can’t argue with truth. Truth by nature will always be right. I would love to be part of this organization and show up to the rally and be challenged by an atheist. I can‘t think of a single argument that couldn’t be dismantled–as all lies and false theologies/philosophies can be dismantled. Only difference, is I would do this with gentleness and respect, unlike the atheists at the rally who will undoubtedly get very ugly. Praying for those brave Christians!
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:48amIt is possible for god to not exist. It is impossible for truth to not exist. Yes, the truth has no creed, religion, and no amount of false doctrines and claims of MEN . . . can change that fact. People are free to show up and protest if they want, but considering the event, they should save their gas money.
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:49amIf we were to wipe clean all knowledge and culture humanity has developed over its existence and start anew, humans would eventually develop all the scientific understanding we have today. They would eventually discover that the earth is round and revolves around the sun. They would discover continental drift to explain earth quakes and volcanoes. And they would even figure out the foundational elements of evolution. But that story of the talking snake, that would be lost forever.
Truth is the thing which still exists even when you stop believing in it.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:22pm@LaineJMoore:
Wow, I can just imagine it. Suddenly millions of people disappear and no one knows why, because no one remembers that it was predicted in the Bible.
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:31pmIf you get taken to heaven, can I have your car?
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 12:15pmSure, you can have the food and water I stored up to since it will be scarce during the end times. I’ll also leave plenty of pain killers.
Report Post »Jeetman
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 4:20amLaine said:
If we were to wipe clean all knowledge and culture humanity has developed over its existence and start anew, humans would eventually develop all the scientific understanding we have today. They would eventually discover that the earth is round and revolves around the sun. They would discover continental drift to explain earth quakes and volcanoes. And they would even figure out the foundational elements of evolution. But that story of the talking snake, that would be lost forever.
Truth is the thing which still exists even when you stop believing in it.
———————–
Not according to this study. It concluded that the belief in a higher power is in our DNA. Can you name one civilization that didn’t follow a religion? If Atheism is so good, refreshing and liberating, surely there’d be one prominent, prosperous society is history we can turn to right?
Oh and I wanted to comment on your other post about our country being a secular society (the separation of church and state thing). Actually, we’ve only became the definition of “separation of church and state as it understood today” since the mid 1900′s (1948). During the founding fathers time, the Capitol was used as a church and it was approved by none other than Thomas Jefferson.
Report Post »Jeetman
Posted on February 26, 2012 at 4:28amSorry forgot to link the study.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-belief-in-god-ingrained-in-our-human-nature-a-new-study-says-so/
Report Post »ThankBabyJesus
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:27amThis will be a freak show.
Report Post »binge_thinker
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:32pmSounds like the “Seinfeld” of demonstations -To showcase a belief about nothing.
Report Post »Green-man
Posted on February 27, 2012 at 3:07amTo The rights of billy you said:
@SILICON Says:
“Why do you think it is that intelligence and education reduce the likelihood someone will believe in God?”
I don’t think that Silicon. Don’t believe it for a second. Not the intelligence part anyway.
I have seen plenty of so called “free thinkers” come on here boasting of their intelligence. Many going so far as to claim superiority when it comes to IQ scores. (I at least give you some credit for not being quite as pompous as most).
When I then point out to them that a high IQ often coexists with an inability to think and behave in a rational manner, and also with a lack of certain cognitive skills, they become belligerent and then go on to further prove the point.
There are different kinds of intelligence, wisdom, common sense, and street smarts that combine to truly make one “wise”.
The ability to prattle on about any particular topic and come across sounding like an authority, and posting links to any number of biased “studies” is easy today, and means little.
Now when it comes to the mention of the “education” factor in your assertion above, that’s a no brainer.
The more time one spends in today’s “so called” educational system, the more he or she has been indoctrinated by Godless, left wing Ideologues.
Make sense?
Report Post »Billy i see you’re feelings; but I must say as education isn‘t the holy grail religious fanaticism isn’t the answer.
God is another story! I’m a agnost
momprayn
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:25amEven the protests of the atheist doesn’t make sense…talking about if they come up and bother them – they had announced they wouldn’t do that – speak only to those who requested, said it was ok.
Report Post »And yes, they do not “see” (since they are “blind”) that they are the ones that are mindless, unreasonable parasites and also they are usually the ones that get in your face and are rude, etc.
Same with most all liberals — their criticisms of us are the very things they are guilty of and seem to be unaware of it and can’t convince them otherwise….they are hardened.
Pray that God will turn all this “harm” that they intend will be turned into “good” for as many as possible. Pray for all these atheists to be able to “hear the truth” which will lead to their salvation and healings of emotional wounds, etc. There are reasons these people are atheists – usually from terrible abuses, wounds from others (many times their own family) when they were growing up.,…not knowing any “real” Christians who are loving, harmful hypocrites, ignorance of the Scriptures, etc.
Only God knows each person’s situation & the Holy Spirit must be there working on them for them to be able to “hear”, believe and be saved. If nothing else, they could plant the “seeds” and then later “see the light”….pray for them all. It’s an opportunity for great good.
DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:42amWhere I can understand your desires here [being aware of them since I was in the church most of my life], and though you are free to “pray for their salvation”, I’m afraid it goes a lot deeper than what you said, . . “usually from terrible abuses, wounds from others (many times their own family) when they were growing up.,…not knowing any “real” Christians who are loving, harmful hypocrites, ignorance of the Scriptures, etc.”
You are assuming that they are “mad at god because of some past experience”. SOME [capitalized for importance] may have had that as a beginning point, but others are quite aware and knowledgeable of the bible, . . . and are aware of why it is incongruent with reality. You claim that they are “UNreasonalbe”. Tell me, . . . . how can a person, who chooses to agree with that which is evidential/demonstrable, somehow be UNreasonable . . . when REASON and what IS reasonable is evidence that is repeatable? How is it UNreasonable when a person chooses not to believe in the magic of an unseen entity, spoken exclusively about in a book written in bronze age Palestine?
Really think about this before commenting! Just don’t resort to “church cut and paste”.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:11am@DeavonReye :
Atheism in and of itself is unreasonable, for they think they are able to know for a fact that there is no God. If Atheists want to be reasonable they would convert to Agnosticism. Unless you believe you can prove that something doesn’t exist.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:45amMr. . . . . I am an agnostic atheist. I cannot make an absolute claim on the topic . . . because I’m not arrogant. But please tell me how it is unreasonable for a person to NOT believe the claims of bronze age, superstitious desert folk who made extraordinary claims. . . when there is no extraordinary evidence?
You cannot claim the atheist of being unreasonable on a realistic level. And anything of the phylosophical or etherial cannot hold an unbeliever as being unreasonable. Are YOU unreasonable for NOT believing in The Fae [Faeries]?
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:20am@DeavonReye:
If you think it is reasonable to say that there are no deities even though you cannot prove it, that’s fine by me. I just happen to take the opposite stance, since you can‘t prove God doesn’t exist.
Who‘s to say I don’t believe in faeries? Even if I didn’t believe in faeries, I wouldn‘t have the audacity to say I know they don’t exist. I would simply say that I can’t know whether they exist or not.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:32amI will agree with you on this. There COULD be entities that would be labeled as “gods” in the universe. There COULD be The Fae that exists just outside our reality. But where reason is promoted, it MUST be the case that the things which can be demonstrable are the things that are reasonable to agree with. Why are gods and faeries more unreasonable? Because without truly knowing, we could be [and most certainly would be, considering the many possibilities] wrong as to what they exactly are.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:54amCan the Big Bang be Demonstrated? No, but does that mean there is no science behind it? Just because something can‘t be demonstrated doesn’t mean there is no evidence behind it.
Now first one would have to argue Intelligent design, that there is a creator. Then one would begin the process of determining what creator, I simply believe that the God of the bible is the most accurate in a historical sense.
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:51pmActually, not all Atheists say “I am sure there is no God.” You can be an Atheist and say: “I don’t believe there is a God because there is no indication whatsoever that there is one.” The idea makes no sense, there has not been any intervention on Earth that anyone can point to and we get to the idea that either matter has always been around or some huge guy has always been around. Given the choice of imagining that some being came into existence fully formed or it started out as a bunch of quarks and so on smashed into a point it is easier to imagine the latter. We can see the radiation from the big bang. We can’t see even the slightest hint of the big guy. But the point is that believing God does not exist and knowing that God does not exist are not the same things. It is like dragons. There could be dragons on some planet somewhere but I know I am in no danger of getting eaten by dragons. In general, I would say I do not believe in dragons but I am not sure there are no dragons anywhere in the universe. I doubt it because fire and carbon based life forms don’t go together well and a giant, omnipotent, magical creator of all things seems even less likely than dragons, but I have no way to disprove it. If you look it up this is a “soft atheist” and it is often mistaken for “agnostic” which is more about the possibility of knowledge in general.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 12:34pm@SiliconValleyDon:
Well maybe not all atheists say “There is no god”, but that is what they all believe by definition. If they think “well we just don’t know” they are agnostic by definition.
If you assume matter has always been around you must assume it has existed forever. If you believe it existed forever can you explain why after an eternity matter suddenly decided to explode into the universe we have today, why not 300 trillion years earlier? What sounds more probable, that after an infinite amount of time suddenly matter decided to explode(A.K.A.) the big bang, or that God decided to create the universe so he started by causing the big bang?
I mean, if you have ever looked at the numbers that correlate with the big bang happening by chance it is astounding just watch as William Lane Craig explains it. It’s a pretty short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUWqXbdjvgU
Report Post »CJohnWest
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:23amIf an atheist was reasonable they would be agnostic, as that question from their purley materialistic viwpoint, is unanswerable, therefore the only acurate conclussion for a spiritually unaware individual agnostisism.
Report Post »Hey atheist, what is reasonable about hating on the foundation of reason when you haven’t even done the mose basic research into the subject?
The obvious conclusion of God; Everything in totatl is part of God, everything in total has ‘more’ than just a part of everything; thought is a thing, all thoughts together (correlated or not) is ‘more’ than just one mind; therefore the sum totatl of all is wiser than any, all-knowing, and the creator of everthing.
Who’s reasonable now, hippie!?
DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:15amNo, Mr. . . . . it is not unreasonable to “believe in no gods”. Again, it isn’t a BELIEF that there are no gods, . . . atheism is a rejection of the ideologies provided. I am personally an agnostic atheist. I cannot conclude that which I am unaware. . . .because I’m not arrogant. However, I see nothing evidential . . . AT ALL . . . that concludes that “the only true god is the god of the bible, who sent ‘his son’ to earth to pay for the sins of man, and did all sort of magical things . . . back then”.
Again, . . . it is NOT unreasonable to be skeptical of extraordinary claims that have no extraordinary evidence.
Report Post »I Aint PC
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:21amA belief in God does not make one mindless, nor parasitic. These so called athiests believe that we Christians follow a myth or a story. What is more mindless- the belief in Christ or believing that those that believe in Christ are stupid? Just because you disagree with someone, does not make them less intelligent. Everyone has a belief in something. It just goes to the point where they have the courage to stand up to their beliefs. Intelligence (mindlessness) and theological beliefs are not the same thing. A person can have MENSA level IQs and believe that God is the creator of all. One could also be as “smart as a box of rocks” and not believe in a Supreme God. When resorting to name calling, on either side, it shows that the intelligence is lacking.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:34amNo, everyone DOESN’T have “a belief in something”. A person may have a reasonable expectation based upon evidence, but that isn’t “belief”.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:02am@DeavonReye:
So you have the belief that not everyone has to have a belief? Your statement contradicts itself, unless you can somehow change the definition of the word belief.
be·lief /biˈlēf/
Report Post »Noun:
1.An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2.Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:11amUm. . . not contradictory. You’re playing word games . . .and know exactly what I mean in context. O_o
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:24am@DeavonReye:
I’m not playing word games, I’m simply stating that by the definition I gave of “belief” that your statement contradicted itself. Now if you have a different definition of the word “belief” I’d be pleased as peaches to hear it, although I would ask that you provide a link so I know your not just making it up.
be·lief [bih-leef]
noun
1. Something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. Confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. Confidence; faith; trust: a child’s belief in his parents.
4. A religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.
With anyone of those definitions it is easy to prove everyone has a belief even if it is a non-belief or a belief that something doesn’t exist.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:41amMr. . . . .IN the way christians use that word, they cannot equate it the same as the definition of the word. They claim the belief in something that hasn’t any evidence. If they DID have evidence, they couldn’t have “faith” [which is the "evidence" of that which is unseen]. Then, they claim that “atheists merely BELIEVE that there is no god”. That isn’t the atheistic stance. It is a rejection of claims.
Do you only believe there are no faeires or know it?
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:10am@DeavonReye:
Christians can believe and have faith in God at the same time if you know the words’ true definitions. I’d like you to give me your definition.
Atheists are people who believe there is no deity, period.
I believe I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of faeries, yet.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:27amMr., I accept the definition you provided, . . . but you still cannot place both camps on the same level.
Group One: Believes in magical occurances in a group of texts written by some men.
Group Two: Sees nothing of credible evidence in the claims of those who said “magic happened”.
These are NOT equitable stances when it comes to defining “belief”. They are NOT on the same level. I’m not sure why this is continuing to be an issue here! O_o
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:38am@DeavonReye:
The issue is that you claimed not everyone has a belief, which is false. So I provided evidence to the contrary.
Of course there are differences but they both have a belief in a certain fact. Theists state there is a God or gods and Atheists state there isn’t.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:54amAnd again, . . .the “belief” statements are NOT on the same level. One is reasonable. The other isn’t. Fact. What we see, test, and create via the scientific method are reasonable. Belief in magical stories from ancient writings, . . . when MANY other religions had magical stories as well, . . . is unreasonable. Therefore, that is why I argue against the idea that christians try to promote that “both ‘beliefs’ are no different.
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:55amI don’t think they were referring to all theists in general, just those showing up to protest the rally. These protesters are being parasitic in that they would not exist if it wasn’t for the rally.
I’m an Atheist and I know that belief does not gauge intelligence and I hold many theists in high respect but people who show up to protest the reason rally are mindless parasites in that they are doing nothing other than antagonizing. No one who is attending the reason rally will convert because of free water bottles and propaganda, all they are doing is going the way of the WBC and protesting for the sake of protesting.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:07pm@DeavonReye:
I said in my post that there are differences, I’m not here to argue that they are the same. I’m arguing that Atheists do in fact believe in something, either prove me wrong or accept that I’m right.
Alright show me the evidence that Atheism is accurate and correct, since you claim Intelligent Design is unreasonable and Atheism is reasonable show me proof.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:18pmAccording to the definition, an atheist can have a ‘belief’. And again, it is not on the same level as “christians believing in a god”. I think we have summed up this section of our talk.
“Alright show me the evidence that Atheism is accurate and correct, since you claim Intelligent Design is unreasonable and Atheism is reasonable show me proof.”
You can’t have “evidence that atheism is correct”. Atheism only rejects claims based upon skepticism. Again, most people are atheists about most of the gods/goddesses known to man. Some just take it one god further.
As for ID, . . . there are enough examples of UNintellegence in various aspects of nature. I think it is a dangerous ideology to have. Many actual scientists have and continue to rip apart the idea of an “INTELLIGENT designer”.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:38pm@DeavonReye:
So lets see, you agree that atheists believe in something(A.K.A. I’m right) , you stated that “What we see, test, and create via the scientific method are reasonable.” and claimed Atheism was reasonable, yet you can’t provide any evidence, and finally you state that ID(Intelligent Design) is incorrect and how scientists constantly rip it apart(Yet William Lane Craig has defeated almost everyone he has debated on it) yet provide no evidence for your claim.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:57pmDon’t gloat over “being right” when I reject the TYPE of “belief” in which christians promote. The “belief in god”. So, technically, and according to the DEFINITION alone, an atheist can have a “belief”, but it is through evidential support. Not because of wishful thinking. “Belief in god or gods” is BASELESS. “Belief that the lights will come on when I flip the switch up” is NOT the same.
William Lane Craigs ideologies? More baseless assumptions. If he debated the right people, that would be obvious.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 1:11pmAnd once again, . . . atheism isn’t a claim. It is a rejection of the claims of others.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 1:59pm@DeavonReye:
Until you can disprove my argument that “Everyone has to have a belief in something” , then it is not a matter of gloating but simply me being right.
Alright, I’ll give you one more chance to prove yourself. You say in your own post that, “So, technically, and according to the DEFINITION alone, an atheist can have a “belief”, but it is through evidential support. Not because of wishful thinking.”. So assuming your correct and my belief is nothing but wishful thinking(which it’s not since I have evidence to the contrary), and an Atheists belief is supported by evidence then I would like to see this evidence. If your going to say “Well, atheism can‘t have evidence because it doesn’t claim anything is true just that something isn’t” then stop saying it has evidence and can be supported.
I understand your trying to be a logical person that relies on nothing but reasonable thoughts, but I really want you to think on this. If you truly believe in logical conclusions and reasonable thoughts, then you should understand that Atheism is unreasonable and unable to be proved, since you can‘t prove that God doesn’t exist. I understand you can question the evidence for it but what proof is there for his non-existence.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 2:19pmYou are right on the basic level of the word, . . . not on the “super” level, which was my point that you apparently refuse to understand. “You have to believe in something”, when stated by a christian, IS having to do with supernatural claims and/or religion. It is stated that atheist are “religious on their own way” because they “believe that there are no gods”. This is an absurd claim, WHEN you tie it with the “you have to believe in something”. Equating the skeptical approach to all deities as “the same religious stance as a religious person” is far from the truth. And as you show in your post, it is again a misinterpretation of the word, Atheism.
Atheism ISN’T a claim. It is YOUR statement that “there is a god”. You believe it to be true. Atheists reject your evidence. It cannot “prove this” anymore than it can proven that faeries do or do not exist. It is the person making the claim to provide the evidence. Being an agnostic atheist, I make no absolute claim that there are no deities “out there”. I will not accept a person’s opinion or belief on this topic when another faith has the same level, if not more, assurance that their religion is right.
However, since we’re talking about evidence, you stated that you had some. Please present it here. Else, point me to a website that has this information.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 3:24pm@DeavonReye:
Oh, I see where I was wrong, I was unable to interpret your “super” definition of the word “belief” and instead stuck to the basic most well known version.
I should have known that when you stated “No, everyone DOESN’T have “a belief in something”. A person may have a reasonable expectation based upon evidence, but that isn’t “belief”.”, you were talking about something religious or supernatural since you used those words, not in a direct way mind you but in a more indirect way.
Atheism is defined as the claim that there are no gods. If it is as you say simply a belief that others beliefs are wrong, then can you tell me what part of other peoples beliefs they perceive as wrong? Isn’t it the part about there being gods? So then, wouldn’t you agree that they believe there are no gods?
The evidence I’m presenting is to show that Christianity is not simply wishful thinking, which is what you asked for, but has truth to it shown in the Bible.
There was in fact a man named Jesus during the time the Bible describes, Jericho was found and it was shown that it was destroyed at the time and the way that the Bible states. Those are just two of the proofs that the Bible is accurate and gives you at least the assumption that believing Christianity is not unreasonable nor wishful thinking. It does not prove Christianity is undeniable it does show it is possible or reasonable.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 3:32pmI think we are talking past each other on the “belief” and “atheism” thing. How about we focus on more important topics.
You said:
“There was in fact a man named Jesus during the time the Bible describes, Jericho was found and it was shown that it was destroyed at the time and the way that the Bible states. Those are just two of the proofs that the Bible is accurate and gives you at least the assumption that believing Christianity is not unreasonable nor wishful thinking. It does not prove Christianity is undeniable it does show it is possible or reasonable.”
That there was a destroyed city of Jericho or a specific person within ancient writings only shows that they existed. The claims of the supernatural cannot be, nor can the bible be adequate in making a determination as to why only THIS specific tribal god was the only one. It is still a religious claim without evidence. The same as other ancient writings of supernatural happenings that mentioned actual locations, such as in the Greek mythos.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 4:41pm@DeavonReyes:
So we agree they exist? What about the countless prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus and him being seen after his death? Why did Jericho’s walls fall outward and nothing but precious metals taken from that place?
Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Christ as represented in the Bible. I don’t have to prove every part of the Bible is accurate and show you super natural happenings to show that there is more to Christianity than baseless assumptions and wishful thinking, only that there are some facts that back it.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 5:15pmThere are two sides to “prophecy”. Those who believe it WAS. . . . . and those who don’t. The thing about past stories sounding like events of another time is, . . . because few things are “one of a kind”, similarities in stories can happen. That doesn’t mean that a previous story is “prophetic”. In fact, many of them were just stories that sounded similar to events that happened later, never being stated AS “prophecy” until men made “the connection” based upon taking stories out of context. What you have is misinterpretations or misunderstandings JUST so it sounds like miraculous “prophecy”.
You find a story about a man who had something happen to his hands, being punctured, and suddenly it is “a messianic prophecy”. . . . and “dogs” suddenly transform into Roman Soldiers. Even though Jesus’ bones were NOT “all out of joint”, the “prophecy” is created. But people can have their hands punctured for many reasons. Maybe, even parts of the “prophetic event” weren’t even true. There would have been no reason for Roman Soldiers to “cast lots for a man’s clothing” when what was on him was ripped and bloody, unless you would assume that they brought his clothing to his execution?
No. “Prophecy” is purposefully vague so that it could say anything. But a REAL prophecy that would have been amazing would have been, “In those days, the works of man will soar in the heavens. In one land, a man will ask a question. In another far land,
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 5:19pmPost got cut off.
No. “Prophecy” is purposefully vague so that it could say anything. But a REAL prophecy that would have been amazing would have been, “In those days, the works of man will soar in the heavens. In one land, a man will ask a question. In another far land, a man will answer him. They will talk as if face to face.”
THAT would have been an amazing prophecy.
Report Post »Mr._Proud_Conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 5:42pm@DeavonReye:
What now, your going to wait for me to bring up something else, So you can look scholarly by down playing them? My objective was not to provide undeniable proof that Christianity is true, but to provide evidence that would support it, which I have. Now, while you have done a good job of down playing my evidence you have yet to show me anything that shows it is false.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:36pmMR_PROUD,
In reading the comments here, I noticed a reference to Dr. William Lane Craig with whom I am unfamiliar. I watched the video of the lecture he gave at Oxford last autumn and have been reviewing the Q&A’s on the site. Wow…..what a brilliant and humble man!
Just wanted to thank you for mentioning him. Quite a blessing to have his defenses for Christianity to back up my faith!
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 9:32amMr., as I illuded to, it is quite possible that some of the stories, even the characters, found in the bible were taken from actual accounts. As for disproving the claims of supernatural occurances, specifically those involving the Jesus narrative, I would not be able to do that. The miracles that are said to have been done by him were ones that could not leave evidential support for them.
There are some of the biblical accounts that could be refuted, but it is possible that they were just metaphorical stories that never were meant to be literal. But even so, the only thing I would be able to offer would be the results of scientific discovery of those in specific fields of study.
Regardless, I think this exchange has gotten pretty long as it is. If you have a forum you go to, perhaps we could continue there.
Report Post »Roy Baty
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 12:20pmAs much as I believe in the Bible, it is not a good convincing proof to smack down the atheist. That would come from the evidence of Intelligent Design and the failure of Darwinism. Everyone knows there are no transitional fossils, and much of what is in “evolution” text books are lies. There is much scientific evidence to hit these atheists with to show them that their “science” is just like marxism and global warming, i.e. fraudulent!
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 6:04pmRoy, if YOU have a forum site you get on and would like to discuss why you are in error, post it here and I will set up an account there.
Report Post »Fipper
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:01amI don’t think anyone will ever figure out why all the hate from atheists. But, they are not going to control my life as they are attempting to do.
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:04pmIt’s not hate. It’s anger.
Atheists are angry that religion is trying to weed it’s way into our government. Atheists are angry that gay people and women are being discriminated against for religious reasons. Atheists are angry that non-Muslims are executed in Islamic countries. Atheists are angry that politicians treat them like second class citizens. Atheists are angry that insane science-deniers are creating policies on education and systematically destroying our children’s ability to compete with foreigners in the biological sciences. Atheists are angry that theocrats have taken over and destroyed the republican party. Atheists are angry that the teen pregnancy rate and abortion rate is going up because religious leaders insist on fighting contraceptives and sex education. Atheists are angry that political leaders blame the countries problems on supernatural reasons instead of actual doing something to fix them. *Sigh* need I go on?
Report Post »binge_thinker
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 11:29pmThe whole point of such a demonstration is to oppose Christianity – not Islam because that’s ethnic and multicultural (also you might be given your head in your hands to play with!) – but Christianity. It is an aspect of Western self-hatred.
Such a celebration is is akin to the French revolutionaries setting up a shrine to the goddess of reason.
That led to the reign of terror and the massive, atheist, global murder spree in the last century in the name of “scientific” materialism, the brotherhood of man and the workers of the world. The equally evil but less numerous murders of fascism were also in the name of “science”. The full title of Darwin’s book is rarely quoted “The Origin of Species and the Preservation of Races” – all right, the Nazis misrepresented Darwin but you can see where the idea came from.
Professor Dawkins’ strident book “The God Delusion” has often been quite convincingly refuted. Passing a bookstore the other day, I was pleased to see the cover of a book entitled “The Dawkins Delusion”!
Report Post »MBA
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:59amWow, clinton redefined the meaning of “is”, now his liberal party is redefining the meaning of parasite. I think more “real” Americans contend that parasites suck the life blood of the host until death occurs. That would mean all the welfare junkies are parasites and the politicians encouraging them to remain welfare junkies are parasite politicians. No, I think politicians have their own category of parasitism–sucking the US taxpayer dry of all money, possessions, and freedom. Well, there you have it. Another social syllogism: liberals = parasites.
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:58amWhat’s “parasitic” about a Christian? My goodness progressives are moronic. Only a progressive shows characteristics of parasites; the unproductive living off the people that pay the bills in this country and then having the stones to rip on these same people they’re bleeding dry.
The good news is that it’ll all come to an end at some point when the bottom feeders collapse the system.
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:11pmA parasite survives only because of it’s host. These christian protesters would not exist if the reason rally did not exist and therefore they are parasites.
Report Post »Mrs.M
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 2:03pmLAINEJMOORE:
“A parasite survives only because of it’s host. These christian protesters would not exist if the reason rally did not exist and therefore they are parasites.”
And athiests would not exist if not for religious folks. Don’t pretend to have some moral high ground.
Report Post »hempstead1944
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:54amA moment will come in everyone’s life when we will know if there is or is not a GOD…..for some who wear the banner of “atheist” there may be a big surprise and for the rest of us…….confirmation of what we believe. No matter how many symbols, prayers, or pictures they remove from public places, this moment will never change…….
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:31amPascal’s Wager is fundamentally flawed.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:54amI can’t name any atheist countries that have been prosperous.
Report Post »conservativejon
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:01amwonder how many you can name what were totalitarian and killed millions of their own people.
Report Post »lainejmoore
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:07pmAmerica. Secular Nation. Doing pretty good.
Report Post »jeebuskiller
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 2:21pmNorway, Sweden, Denmark, Japan… The less churchgoing a state, the more educated, prosperous and happy are the citizens.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:21pmHey JEEB
You better do some more recent research.
Things over there are not quite as you portray them to be any more.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:27pm@JEEB
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/01/15/sweden-scores-zero-on-quality-of-life-index/
They also have the highest ratio of single people, and the birth rate is dropping significantly.
Then study up on the fact that many of them live in ******* box apartments that might just fit inside your garage.
Happy happy happy.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:29pmWOW,
Another word for “Saltine” got bleeped.
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:19pmBelief in God in the Nordic countries is quite low and their happiness, education levels, health and general well being is higher than ours. Their crime rates are a fraction of ours. We probably have more people in the county jail of a small town in Texas than they do in one of their countries. Japan is also by far a majority atheist, probably the most atheist country in the world, and they are the third largest economy in the world, have longer lifespans that the US it is also far safer than the US. It is pretty clear that there are a number of far less religious countries than the US that are in many ways more successful than the US.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 12:16am@SILICON
It is silly to compare apples and oranges.
What do those people have to compare their so called happiness to?
Why are so many single?
Why are they not reproducing at a replacement level? Could it be they can not afford to?
After living my life here in the surroundings and comforts I am accustomed to, I would most definitely not be happy if I had to go live there in one of those tiny, European, living quarters.
Sorry Charlie, not me. This is still the greatest nation ever created in all of history, and I am going to do my best to keep it that way.
Report Post »siliconvalleydon
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 1:34pmbilly – I don’t think you keep up, 40% of all births in the US are to single women and it is increasing.
Report Post »http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/health/13mothers.html
And almost 1/2 the people in the US over 18 are not married:
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/12/14/marriage-rate-declines-and-marriage-age-rises/
The Nordic countries have a great deal of open space and the houses can be quite large. Social mobility is much higher than the US. In other words, it is much likely for a person that is born poor to be able to work his or her way up. I think America is wonderful and I have lived in other countries so I am not just speculating the way you are. However, if our educational system and other infrastructure continues to decline we won’t keep up. People who think there is no room for improvement and would never consider the idea that someone somewhere else in the world might have good ideas are the people have the potential to ruin the country.
Montanalady
Posted on February 25, 2012 at 11:01pmOne thing we know for sure The Devil will be at the “Reason Rally” and he will be among his kind.
Report Post »conservativejon
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:46amthe Evangelical rally needs to be held the week b4 or the week after the atheist rally only so that they dont get hit by the meteor or any other AoG
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:45amWhat makes these unwashed atheists believe they can have their so-called ‘peaceful’ rally in the very capital of these United States without being righteously and loudly chastised by the very Christians and Catholics who invented America?
TEA
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:50amYeah, b/c we all know that the wonderful atheist state of the former Soviet Union was such a great place.
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 3:26pm2 points:
Report Post »1. Christians AND Catholics? Catholics would be surprised at the distinction.
2. Catholics invented America? Latin America, maybe. Not necessarily a recommendation!
momrules
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:35amThe Christians will speak with love and respect but the atheists will speak back with “soft spoken malice and cruelty.”
Report Post »These brave Christians are going to enter a hellhole of hatred. I will certainly be praying for them.
DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 9:30amSo, . . . christians WON’T go there and yell at them about “turning to Jesus or burn in hell”??? I would like to see that day.
You seem to be assuming that all atheists are ravenous, angry, and mean people. They are just like you.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:01amNo, they are not just like me.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 10:06amNot LITERALLY like you, but they get up in the morning, go to work, provide for and love their family, enjoy nice weather, go on vacations, buy things they would like to have, etc.
The only difference is religious. Consider that, because there are thousands of god and goddesses that are believed by various cultures, . . . . everyone is an atheist on some level. There are those who just take it one god further.
Report Post »jimv2000
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:53pmYou missed his joke.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 7:32pmAtheists are not known for their sense of humor.
LOLOLOLOL
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:24amHmm.
Report Post »I wonder which event is going to need a fleet of garbage trucks for the clean-up..?
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:33amProbably the atheists; one way to solve that particular bands problems (the atheirsts) would be to bring in the local Occupy band and tell them that the atheists are hoarding all the twinkies and M&M’s, the resulting carnage would eliminate both bands.
I wish this gathering of God’s people the best.
Report Post »jimv2000
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:51pmProbably neither. Cleanliness is not a religious matter.
Report Post »joe conservative
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 8:23amI would have never believed someone if they would have told me twenty years ago that there would one day be an all out war against freedom of religion. This is why there is an America in the first place. Even if you’re not religious, this should be a wake-up call to all citizens.
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1oDqfTl3KA
jimv2000
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 12:50pmYou seem to be confusing “all out war” with people not choosing to believe the same as you.
Report Post »jeebuskiller
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 3:55pmIf I exercise at the gym, am I ‘waging war’ on fatties?
Report Post »AmericanAtheistNavyVet
Posted on February 24, 2012 at 4:43pmread my post Joe to Cindy G, my word “ V A G I N A L ” was censored by this place here. … alleged baby gods according to most xian believers do claim no phallus was involved in some sort of immaculate conception, as for your silly pretense that Atheists civil rights equal an attack on religious freedom is calling our denial of equal protection from government some how harming you? Do you condemn your bible for calling me a “fool” and a “reprobate?” It is the religionist & the theocrat who force secular citizens into submission & cause us to pay extra taxes when faith businesses pay nothing. … THE REASON RALLY is a negotiation for peace from the war crusaders, inquisitors & pogromist witch hunter McCarthyites have been waging on humanity TO force their baby Jeebus scam on us all, all we want is equality, science & our godless US Constitution enforces, as the imaginary alleged deity by any name does not appear in our nation”s highest law. 843-926-1750 Larry
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