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Exclusive: Actor Jay Mohr Talks About His ‘Calling’ to Faith & Laments Atheists‘ ’Child-Like’ Rejection of God

Actor Jay Mohr Talks About His Conversion to Catholicism, Atheism & More

You likely know actor and comedian Jay Mohr from his role as Bob Sugar in “Jerry Maguire,“ from his television work on ”Gary Unmarried,“ ”Saturday Night Live“ and ”Ghost Whisperer” — or from his regular podcast “Mohr Stories.” But did you know that the successful entertainer is also an outspoken Catholic? After learning about the conversion that Mohr made just four years ago, we decided to catch up with him to talk about his spiritual journey, and his views on heaven, hell, atheism and Jesus Christ.

Mohr, who grew up in a Presbyterian church, claims that he’s always been a person of faith. As a child, he sang in the choir, played the bells and participated in church activities. However, he wasn’t a fervent adherent during most of his adult life. So, four years ago, he realized that he needed structure — something he claims Catholicism inevitably brought him.

Plus, he says he found himself tired of generically describing his faith to the people he interacted with. When people would ask if he was religious, his response was less-than-stellar.

“I got tired of telling people, ‘No, but I’m a spiritual person,’” he said, going on to joke, “I’m like, ‘that’s what strippers say.’”

Actor Jay Mohr Talks About His Conversion to Catholicism, Atheism & More

MOHR’S CONVERSION EXPERIENCE

Mohr claims that he transitioned from “spirituality” to embracing Jesus Christ after his wife’s aunt (he’s married to actress Nikki Cox) passed away a few years back. While he had only met these relatives a few times, his wife’s uncle (the husband of the deceased) called him and asked if he was willing to be a pall-bearer — a responsibility that Mohr called “an honor and an obligation and a delicate thing.” Little did the actor know that the funeral would serve as the catalyst to getting him on a new-found Christian path.

“It was so beautiful. There was pageantry and robes and everybody knew the same prayers and there was this really incredible sense of togetherness,” he said of the funeral.

Seeing all of the religious imagery and being such an integral part of the ceremony caused Mohr to have what he described as “this odd feeling.” And the actor claims that he suddenly felt as though he wanted to belong somewhere and he realized that the Catholic Church was just the place.

Actor Jay Mohr Talks About His Conversion to Catholicism, Atheism & More

Actor Jay Mohr (left) and his wife Nikki Cox (right) (AP)

“I was home,” he said, going on to describe the feeling he experienced as “a calling.”

But it wasn’t only the funeral, itself, that brought the comedian into the Catholic fold. He also described telling his wife about this internal pull he was experiencing. He was so moved that he decided to go to mass at a local church and when the priest began speaking, the first thing the faith leader said was, “we are a called people.“ It was this ”call” that Mohr says was already tugging at him and that the priest’s words brought it all together for him.

Then, after he told his wife about the experience and the priest’s message, he found out that she was baptized in the very church he was sitting in at that day — a fact he hadn’t known beforehand. All of these factors combined, compelled him toward the Catholic faith. In the end, he described his religious awakening as coming after this “incredible confluence of events.”

Mohr is also careful to note that he didn’t convert to Catholicism as a result of his wife’s prodding (the two married in 2006, two years before his conversion). Cox, as mentioned, was already a believer when they wedded.

“I cannot emphasize this enough: I did not convert to Catholicism because of my wife. I was called upon,” he reiterated.

MOHR’S UNCONVENTIONAL VIEWS ON HELL & THE BIBLE

While he was learning Christianity’s ropes, Mohr said that Catholic leaders were patient and that they took the time to describe and assist him in understanding the parameters and core beliefs of the faith. Rather than forcing ideals upon him, the actor claims that he was given the opportunity to ask questions and to talk about the complicated elements.

“No one lied to me at any time. It wasn’t: ‘This is how it goes, Jonah lived in a whale. Believe in it or you’re going to hell,’” Mohr said. “It was more, ‘Well, let’s talk about it.’”

Now, when it comes to hell, heaven‘s opposing locality and the devil’s so-called lair, the entertainer separates from many faithful and doesn’t buy into the notion that non-believers (that is, those individuals who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior) will be banished from heaven. He also calls the notion that hell is a literal lake of fire “absurd,” claiming that to punish those born before Christ with hell (i.e. they didn‘t and couldn’t yet believe, so they can’t possibly be accountable) wouldn’t be fair.

Actor Jay Mohr Talks About His Conversion to Catholicism, Atheism & More

Additionally, Mohr separates himself from fundamentalism and doesn’t take the Bible overtly literally. Throughout our discussion, he was also very open about the fact that his faith is continuously evolving and changing. He doesn’t embrace every portion of the Old Testament as literal fact, but he does appreciate, it seems, the “decorum and rules” that it sets up.

“I’m not sure that God wrote 10 commandments on tablets, but I am sure that a man came and told masses [the masses], ‘Hey this is what I just got,’” he said, referring to Moses in Exodus and Deuteronomy.

Through this lens, he says the Bible becomes a book that is a fascinating work to interpret rather than “to obey.“ Mohr believes that theology flourishes when it is allowed to be malleable and when people remain open to go on ”a continuous journey.”

“I know enough to know nothing and that‘s what’s great about the Bible as a piece of work,” he said.

Some on the evangelical side of the spectrum would likely scoff at some of these ideals, as would conservative Catholics. But Mohr, who goes to a somewhat unconventional church, seems open to being refined in his faith journey. Thus, there’s no telling how he will evolve on some of these more complex and controversial issues. In speaking with him, it is clear that he continues to thoughtfully consider his views on these matters of theological importance.

Obviously, he’s rooted in a more theologically liberal footing. His current church, he says, has an “all are welcome” policy, which means that anyone and everyone is allowed through the house of worship’s front doors (it even has a gay and lesbian-friendly mass).

Previously, the actor described, in longer form, the process through which he became a Catholic. Listen to a recent episode of his podcast, below (faith conversation starts around 31:50 – caution: language):

MOHR’S VIEWS ON JESUS CHRIST 

When I asked Mohr if Jesus is God’s son, he paused briefly.

“I think we‘re all God’s sons, because in John 3:16, he says ‘you’re the son of God,‘ but earlier in John he says ’you’re the son of man,’” he claimed.

Certainly, many in Christian circles would embrace the notion that we are all, indeed, God’s sons, however this response didn’t dig deeply into the character of Jesus. That being said, Mohr did highlight the importance of people believing in a loving God.

Actor Jay Mohr Talks About His Conversion to Catholicism, Atheism & More“If we all, as a mass, believed in God and one another we would truly evolve into something much more peaceful…and beautiful,” he continued.

As for Christ, he said that his teachings provide the basis through which he, his wife and his family members wish to live and that his children, too, will be raised with these Biblical ideals. Also, at the center of his faith is the notion that the Golden Rule is what he wishes to live by.

When pushed a bit further and asked if Christ is “the way” to God, Mohr said, “I think Jesus is the way for me…I don‘t think anybody’s going to hell because they don‘t believe in Jesus Christ as God’s son. God is too loving to allow people to go to hell for choosing to believe in something else.” This, of course, would be a sticking point for many believers, but Mohr maintains that the belief that one must accept Christ to reach heaven is “too exclusionary.”

THE ACTOR’S “CONFUSION” ABOUT ATHEIST ACTIVISM

While there are many areas of disagreement between Mohr and more conservative Christians, there’s surely one issue they can agree upon: Atheism. During our discussion, the actor said that his conversion story dumbfounds many non-believers, because they can‘t comprehend how an adult who wasn’t indoctrinated ended up accepting Christian doctrines.

He also played off of the atheist argument that believers are child-like in their acceptance of God, giving his own assessment of people who choose not to believe that an Almighty exists.

“To not believe in a supreme being or beings…to me is more child-like,” he said, going on to re-word his statement in a more hard-hitting form: “To not believe that there’s something larger than you, to me, is the most child-like belief…”

Actor Jay Mohr Talks About His Conversion to Catholicism, Atheism & More

Penn Jillette

Mohr also said that he’s confused by the aggression that atheists sometimes showcase. They are, in his view, unbending and he takes particular issue with their characterization that those who believe in a higher power are foolish.

“[But] I’m more confused by the certainty of their stance,” he proclaimed.

His issues with non-belief also extended into confusion, particularly when it comes to Penn Jillette (read our profile on Penn here) and Bill Mahr and the way in which these atheist comedians and entertainers market their non-belief.

“I would love to sit with Bill Maher. I would love to sit with Penn,” he said. ”The unwillingness to even entertain the idea that anything else could be possible belies their intelligence and we’re talking about two of the more intelligent men alive.”

IN CONCLUSION…

As a fixture in Hollywood, Mohr admits that most of Tinseltown is more liberal and not as Christian as other areas of the country. But he also maintains that belief in Christ is growing and that many people, though the public doesn’t know it, are adherents. As for Mohr, he‘s continuing on his journey and he’s encouraging others to keep seeking the faith as well.

Belief in God and his conversion to Catholicism, he says, have changed him profoundly.

“I feel a part of something much larger than me. I feel smaller than I‘ve ever felt before and my heart feels larger than it’s ever felt before,” he said. “And I still have the ability to make my heart get even larger.”

For more on Mohr and to listen to his podcast, click here.

Comments (251)

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  • tradcatholicgirl
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:45pm

    Goodstuff,

    Best post I’ve seen today! I can’t help but smile. Now if you want to talk about indoctrination of a fairy tale….evolution is the most amusing example out there.

    Report Post »  
    • AvengerK
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 5:00pm

      God Bless you Mr Mohr.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 5:02pm

      Can‘t help but laugh at the hypocrisy of Mohr’s statements.

      He strikes me as the type of religious person who hasn’t heard the arguments against his stance.

      First off, atheists don‘t think there isn’t something higher then ourselves.

      I look at the universe and how expansive and empty it is, and am humbled by it.

      Religion looks at the universe and says, “wow, God made this all for us.”

      Plus, the certainty of atheists? Most atheists(and some of the most prominent ones as of late: Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris) all say that they can‘t prove that a God doesn’t exist. They can give evidence and arguments to as why a God may not exists, but they aren’t evidence.

      It is religion who says they KNOW a God exists. They go as far as people on this site and say, “I don’t even need to provide evidence that God exists.”

      Obviously Mohr hasn’t thought about the arguments for and against his stance or he would realize how easy it is to knock down his arguments.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 5:19pm

      Oops, “but they aren’t arrogant or certain.” is what I meant to say.

      Report Post »  
    • Conservative-Atheist
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 5:29pm

      @tradcatholicgirl

      Evolution is not a fairy tale, it is a fact of life.

      Report Post » Conservative-Atheist  
    • AnimalsAsLeaders
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 6:22pm

      wow. evolution is a fairy tale? It’s a theory that sets up a framework to make falsifiable predictions about observed behaviors and patterns in nature. Evolutionary theory is continually in line with observations we make. That’s the power of science, prediction, evidence to support claims, ability to refute other claims in an objective way, the ability to change in light of new evidence. That’s a dynamic system of ever growing understanding about the world.
      A fairy tale is an old story with mythical creatures and fictional characters. It would be foolish to base your perspectives on the world from old stories about magic and dragons. Although, it does make you feel good at night to be delusional about the nature of reality.

      Report Post » AnimalsAsLeaders  
    • Pontiac
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 7:33pm

      [You likely know actor and comedian Jay Mohr from his role as Bob Sugar in “Jerry Maguire,“ from his television work on ”Gary Unmarried,“ ”Saturday Night Live“ and ”Ghost Whisperer” — or from his regular podcast “Mohr Stories.”]
      Nope, nope, nope, nope, and nope.

      Report Post » Pontiac  
    • jwt
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 9:19pm

      does not matter what he feels or thinks. he needs a spiritual connection with the Father allowed by the Lord, Jesus. The Lord, God is a all consuming fire, the ones who are of God will survive.his love

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 10:51pm

      Hey JAY,

      Seeing as how you are a comedian………I like the way you slipped in that little joke about Billy Maher being one of the more intelligent men alive.

      LMAO

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 10:59pm

      Check your last post….

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 11:09pm

      Hey Mod,

      If you are not “certain”,……..why are you always in here trying to convince us in to being uncertain along with you?

      Misery need some company?

      And I noticed your sneaky little way of still trying to get believers to admit that they could be wrong.

      Your right about one thing Mod. We know we are right, and that you are wrong.

      I mean….are you really so stupid as to not know the definition of the word “faith”?

      But keep plugging away there Skippy.

      And I guess I’ll ask you once again………How much evil should one accept and tolerate, in order to reach the level of MODERATIONTHATISBEST?

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • Bruce01
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 11:13pm

      Hey C-A if evolution is a fact of life……… Then who created life?….. I pray that you read the Bible which is the word of God and understand and hear Gods word and realize the Spiritof Christ lives within you. Acts chapter 1 … The beginning of the Church of God. Blessing to you.

      Report Post »  
    • red1
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 12:24am

      I can’t believe none of you mentioned the most likely cause of his faith. Jay is married to Nikki Cox! That would cause even the most ardent athiest to get down on his knees and thank God every day.

      I am an atheist but I find the comments made by the other atheists here to be bizarre and irrational. Jay is correct when he calls you child-like.

      Report Post »  
    • Bowlz
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 12:42am

      Good for Jay. God Bless you Brother. Glad to know you have the stones to stand up for your faith.

      Report Post »  
    • Conservative-Atheist
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 12:44am

      @Bruce01

      Hey C-A if evolution is a fact of life……… Then who created life?

      ***Well, you say it’s god right? All I would ask you is who created god?
      _____________
      Blessing to you.

      ***Thank you. You have a good day.

      Report Post » Conservative-Atheist  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 1:06am

      @THERIGHTSOFBILLY

      Billy, let’s take a step by step look at how our conversations have gone.

      1. You continually ask me that question that you posed at the end of your post.
      2. Me assuming you actually want an answer, give a detailed response to that question.
      3. You then claim it is a rhetorical question.
      4. I pose the same question to you as you do to me, but phrase it in terms of how much evil are you willing to allow on the claim of “religious freedom?” Except in my case, I make it clear that I am looking for your response to those ethical questions.
      5. You then refuse to answer my questions.
      6. I say that I would really like to understand what you think on the issues I asked.
      7. You then claim that I somehow already know where you stand on those issues and again don’t answer them.
      8. You then come back at me with the same rhetorical question.

      And don’t get me started on you saying
      “Yes we KNOW we’re right.“ and then in the VERY next sentence use ”faith“ as your evidence for ”knowing” you’re right.

      You don’t “know” you’re right about your religion, you “believe” you are right. You have “faith” you are right. Neither one of those lend any credence to what you “know.”

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 1:15am

      You ask me if I know what the word “faith” means. I know what the word “faith” means, which is why I laugh when you use words like “faith” to defend what you “know.”

      Do you understand what the word “know” means?

      The definition of “know” from dictionairy.com

      “Know : to perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend clearly and with certainty: I know the situation fully.”

      The definition of “faith” from the same source

      “confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another’s ability.”
      “belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.”

      Faith and belief don’t deal in truth, they deal in dogma, control, and superstition.

      Let’s look at how faith is described in Websters

      “firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust”
      ” belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion”

      Again, none of those deal in truth, or what you know.

      “Know” in Websters

      “a : to be aware of the truth or factuality of : be convinced or certain of
      b : to have a practical understanding of ”

      So please in future discussions, to avoid looking foolish please don’t use faith to defend what you know. Then again, do you even have these discussions with people you actually engage with on a day to day basis? Or do you seclude yourself from every non Christian?

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 1:50am

      Look at what I am saying objectively and not because you think I’m some atheist, socialist, whatever you want to call me.

      Maybe you will respond differently if someone you likely(assumption) respect makes the same argument?

      Here is Ayn Rand making the case for Atheism.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTmac2fs5HQ&feature=related

      Now I’m not necessarily saying that because you might agree with Ayn Rand and her views on capitalism, that you should then inherently agree with her views on the existence/non-existence of a God.

      I am merely providing that link so that you could hear the exact argument I’m making, but from someone you likely respect vs some random person on the internet who you feel you are ideologically opposed to in every sense of the term.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 2:19am

      Oh and to say I’m miserable is a statement with no factual evidence to back that up. Then again, I guess accepting something with no facts or evidence isn’t that hard for you to accept is it?

      Report Post »  
    • KStret
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 4:17am

      Mod,
      “Plus, the certainty of atheists? Most atheists(and some of the most prominent ones as of late: Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris) all say that they can‘t prove that a God doesn’t exist. They can give evidence and arguments to as why a God may not exists, but they aren’t evidence.”

      They are uncertain in their disbelief in God just like they are uncertain in their disbelief in unicorns, elves, Santa, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? That is being as certain as you can get. Stop equivocating and regurgitating what Richard Dawkins says…. You do not believe in God and you are pretty certain of it.

      “Obviously Mohr hasn’t thought about the arguments for and against his stance or he would realize how easy it is to knock down his arguments.”

      You do not have any arguments! Every thing you say is predicated logical fallacy.

      1. You don’t have the burned of proof.
      2. There isn’t any evidence
      3. Prove to me that a giant strawman logical fallacy monster doesn’t exist

      Catch phrases:

      Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence

      The idiocy of blaming every problem in the world on religion with the Christian body count game.

      Should I go on?

      Report Post » KStret  
    • KStret
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 4:40am

      Every single atheist says the exact same thing in the exact same order. You guys are like the Borgs in Star trek. When someone points out the flaws in your empty arguments and you can’t answer them, you disappear and pop up again only to make the exact same arguments.

      The people who are not thinking about their arguments are atheists and you are just as dogmatic as you accuse religious people of being. You would think that someone who values education, logic, and reason wouldn’t making such illogical arguments and if they were making bad arguments, you would think that they would change the arguments after the fact…..

      Believing that God doesn‘t exist doesn’t automatically make you a member of the genius club. For some reason, a portion of the atheist population who are probably really insecure about their intelligence convinced themselves that disbelieving in God was synonymous with intelligence.

      Repeating the mantra….. There isn’t any evidence……..There isn’t any evidence……..There isn’t any evidence…….. is the opposite of intelligent. Arguing that you don‘t have to justify your believe that God doesn’t exist is the exact opposite of intelligent.

      Attempting redefine atheism to a definition that doesn’t make any sense is a sad attempt get out of making a case for atheism and is equally pathetic.

      Report Post » KStret  
    • loriann12
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 6:39am

      So, Mod, you were there when the big bang happened? How did it go, what did it look like? How do you explain that a single cell organism evolved into you? did it grow an eye, without a brain to hook up to? Did it sprout arms and legs with no brain to tell them what to feel, how to move? Did it grow a brain first and then the brain said, hmmm, I need to see what’s out there, I think I’ll develop an eye. And how did ALL creatures decide to have two eyes? And who started the big bang? Haven‘t you heard of the theory that what’s in motion remains in motion, or what’s not in motion remains still unless acted upon by an equal or greater force? So who ignited the big bang? And how did they compress all that energy into a tiny spot, which exploded into the vast universe, out of nothing? Faith is believing in something you can’t see. It takes more faith to be an athiest than to believe the Bible is true. I don’t mind evolution being taught as a theory, if they include the “theory” of God or a higher being as well. But you try to cram down your lack of religion (and don’t get me wrong, athiesm is a religion) down our throats but don’t want to hear a word about the possibility of a higher being. It’s OK, God loves you too, just as he loved me before I believed in him.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 7:40am

      Yo Mod:

      I left you a responce to your question in the other story that went off the main page …search “referee” for the interview and you will find your answer … leave a responce and I will respond back if you check it out.

      Report Post »  
    • Free2speakRN
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 9:06am

      Moderationisbest, Hi, my friend.

      “I look at the universe and how expansive and empty it is, and am humbled by it.
      Religion looks at the universe and says, “wow, God made this all for us.””

      Myself, I experience both. We are indeed, small.

      I understand where you are coming from, as well, when people are saying they ‘know’ that God exists. It is very difficult, even non-discursive to communicate what a person ‘knows’ when they talk about faith. For instance, Dion, (‘Run Around Sue’, ‘The Wanderer’, etc.), who had it all, when 26 years old had a ‘twinkling of an eye’ conversion to believe and also be Catholic. From that very ‘moment’ he stopped using heroin, other drugs etc. and feels more relevant today than ever. (71years old, maybe.)?? For me, it wasn’t drugs, but incredible confusion in the ability to love. My conversion was just as quick. I cannot explain it. It was a surprise. It was unbelievable to Me, but it was there. How can I explain it. I can’t. It was an honest silence that was clear as a bell. I just started to love everyone, despite who or what they are. I also wasn’t stupid about it.

      Report Post »  
    • Free2speakRN
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 9:07am

      As you are saying, too, God’s existence cannot be ‘known’ or proven. That’s precisely why it’s Faith. Now, different atheists do set up arguments as to why He ‘may not exist’. It doesn’t ‘prove’ God doesn’t exist anymore than do Thomas Aquinas’ proofs of God. Ie. First Cause, First Mover, where contingency doesn’t exist, and more, about purpose, etc. Aquinas said that these were Not proofs, but arguably things to reasonably consider.

      As Catholics we are taught upon entering Heaven, Faith is replaced by Sight; Hope is replaced or fulfilled by Attainment, and Love Increases. Here on earth, Love comes to us in ‘characteristics of knowledge’. So there ‘is’ this unexplainable knowledge that a believer has that is certainly not Full, but evident and surely not disagreeable with reasoning skills according to the scientific discoveries made by believers through history. NOTE: “We do Not know God ‘as He is in Himself‘”. Jesus did not Push Himself on people. Nor do I push myself or beliefs on others. I continue to try to love, although, I think it’s known on these pages, I’m not past getting angry with some of the hate speech. I do try to make my apologizes.

      Report Post »  
    • Free2speakRN
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 9:09am

      I like you, Mod. I follow some of the stuff you say. At least you say, you don’t know! That is the best start. Self-honesty. Saints and mystics say God is better known by ‘negation’; Knowing by Unknowing. Whenever you try to form God, you create an idol. Like I said once, at least be ‘open’ to an ‘Unknowable God’. Free will ‘til the end… Let us wish each other well.

      ‘I am’ is the bottom of metaphysics. It is the only ‘Natural’ knowledge we can truly have in this life. Not ’who I am.’ Not ’what I am’. But ’THAT I am’. Philosophers say, “That wall isn’t there.”, yet they walk threw the door. In natural self-honesty nothing more can be known, but ’that, I am’. Nothing is so naturally deep and quiet as this one knowledge, with no noise of any other knowledges in the mind. All else could be illusion. I may be a brain in a laboratory, but I am an entity that ‘is’. I am. Nothing is so simple and profound in mankind’s natural knowledge. One thing to note is that from a volcanic mountain in a most ‘memorable way‘, when Moses said, “But Who shall I say sent me.” (meaning ‘that they might believe me‘). It is written, “Tell them I AM sent you.” That does hit a core, whether we believe or not.

      Report Post »  
    • Free2speakRN
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 9:11am

      Live a good life, my friend. Understand what Sacrificial love is. Many times it deeply hurts to go on loving in the midst of hate. Sometimes the love hides the sacrifice, like when you do something for your kid. Who sees sacrifice in that?! Politics should be an ‘extension’ of the family, because a lot of times, loving is tough. But you do it. It’s an act of the ‘will’.

      As far as extraterrestrial life goes, the Catholic Faith is the most open Christian Faith there is. Who knows how God handles the rest of the universe/multiverses, and all that ‘is’. I don’t know the answers. Whatever exists out there, we naturally have the mind to know ‘truth’ transcends time and space. Even though we don’t know what actually is out there, we, by truth, can transcend it all, and know and say, “What is, is.

      With Augustine, I will venture to say, whatever is out there, there is good, and evil… the lack of good that ought to be there.

      What is the difference between Faith and Believing? …Faith is the gift. Believing is the response.
      What is this holy disinterested love? ….Disinterested love, is love without an ‘angle’.
      How does Hope interact with Faith? ….Hope is the catalyst of faith.

      So, in the end, I cannot prove God exists, or do I even want to. But, Mod, as far as knowledge goes….. I’d die for Him. And I think if you’re the man I think you are, I’d die for you.

      Peace, Free2SpeakRN

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 11:30am

      @KStret

      “They are uncertain in their disbelief in God just like they are uncertain in their disbelief in unicorns, elves, Santa, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? ”

      Why do you keep using the word “belief” especially when discussing how I view the world? I think that in probably every single post, I’ve never once used the word “believe” to defend why I view the world the way I do. That is one way in which I am different then Hitchens. I’ve never said, “I don’t believe a God exists” therefore I have no connection to the argument you accused me of.

      “You do not have any arguments! Every thing you say is predicated logical fallacy.” I have made numerous posts and given evidence and also my thinking as to why I think it’s unlikely a God exists. However; each time I have been clear to say that it neither proves or disproves the existence of a God.

      “1. You don’t have the burned of proof.
      2. There isn’t any evidence
      3. Prove to me that a giant strawman logical fallacy monster doesn’t exist
      Catch phrases:
      Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence
      The idiocy of blaming every problem in the world on religion with the Christian body count game.
      ”

      Talk about a GIANT straw man. To try and say that those are the only three kind of statements I have made is being intellectually dishonest. I have never even begun to suggest to blame the entire problem in the world on Christianity.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 11:38am

      Your entire post at me was a giant straw man. Over generalizing my arguments for God not existing(then again, I think you‘re relatively new here so you haven’t seen many of the discussions we had). Then saying I make arguments that I have never made and then knocking down those arguments.

      When people tell me “prove God doesn’t exist” I don’t shift the burden of proof back to them(though I do think it’s silly to make a claim and then demand someone disprove it).

      I simply say that I can‘t prove a God doesn’t exist, but that doesn’t mean that he does. I can give reasons why I think it’s unlikely, but I admit that I can’t disprove the existence of a God. I then ask the person as to the reasons why they “know(their word not mine)” god exists. They then appeal to things like faith or you have other people on this site(like the guy named Luke) who just flat out say, “I don’t need evidence.” Well statements like that just prove my point. If you’re going to have that “faith” fine, but then don’t be intellectually dishonest with me and call it “truth” or “fact” or use to defend what you “know.”

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 11:51am

      @LORIANN12
      Science is continually trying to find out how the universe started and the big bang is the most likely possibility. Science will continually try to see if a better theory is out there based around evidence and not pre-conceived ideas of the world from some holy book. You see, because science actually cares whether or not the conclusions it comes to are true or not. I don’t see Christians theologians trying to disprove the Genesis account of how the world end(I‘m assuming you do know that Genesis isn’t a day by day account of how the world began? It is the writings of a person less than 3,000 years ago who looked at the world and started making up how he thought the world came to be.) I think it’s hilarious how the writer uses the 7 day calendar to describe how God created the world. Why not 4 days? why not 5? Nope, it’s 7 because there are 7 days in a week. Laughable.

      “And who started the big bang? ” Why do you say who? Scientists are continually having breakthroughs and some say that the formation of the universe was inevitable due to the “nothingness(there are different forms of nothing in science).”

      Because science doesn’t have every answer, doesn’t mean your made up answers are correct.

      The difference between me and you is how we respond to evidence and I think it is one of the defining things about faith vs science.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 12:05pm

      Take something like evolution. I can accept that it is the most likely explanation for how current man came to be. It has tons of evidence to back it up(despite what you think) and there is also overwhelming evidence that the Earth is more than 10,000 years old(something a lot of religious people actually argue, but I’m not saying this applies to you).

      That being said, there are countless of scientists who are continually trying to disprove evolution. To say that science(not saying you in particular are saying this, but a lot of religious people are) is ignoring evidence because they “believe” in evolution is hilariously false. First off there are many scientists who are religious and accept evolution. Secondly, scientists who are atheists have a reason to disprove Darwin because of the notoriety of being the person to disprove Darwin’s work.

      If evidence comes along that blows evolution out of the water(none has and it still wouldn’t prove a God exists), I would no longer accept evolution as how current man came to be. See, I actually care whether or not if the way I view the world is correct.

      Unlike religion, I am not so bogged down by dogma of a holy book that I deem infallible. Not to mention how each religion and almost each denomination has their own interpretation of the book, yet they all claim divinity behind their views. Surely they can’t all be right?

      I won’t even get into your claim that Atheism is a religion. It’s nonsense.

      Report Post »  
    • Alessandre
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 1:32pm

      @Moderationisbest: Mohr isn’t making arguments, he’s sharing his experience.

      I have mixed connective tissue disease that tends towards lupus, RA & crohn’s. my blood work is not positive except DNA testing indicates autoimmune disease & I have mildly to moderately raised creatinine. when I present w/ inflamed joints, diarrhea, an esophagus so narrow I can’t swallow solid food, intense fatigue & intense pain – it could be real or imaginary & for a long time, doctor’s told me it was stress (imaginary). but finally some realized I was sick & referred me to specialists & then I moved to TX & began to see drs w/ lots of experience & they finally diagnosed me. but the empirical evidence, the measurable evidence just isn’t present. so how did they diagnose me? experience. the RA of cancer patients undergoing chemo was getting better. drs began using chemo on patients w/ RA & other autoimmune disease & they got better. drs don’t know why, they only know it works & it works for me. it’s true for other meds too. experience.

      Christians have, experience. we can tell you what we’ve experienced. some of us can make coherent philosophical arguments for Christianity but what it comes down to is meeting the risen Lord & once that happens, life can totally change if we accept Him. & we must share our experience because that’s part of loving Christ & our neighbour. most Christians come to faith by experience. it‘s not always overwhelming but it’s real not imaginary & available

      Report Post »  
    • 124andmore
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 2:00pm

      A few famous atheists, some dead, some alive: Thomas Edison, Mark Twain, Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, Steve Wozniak, Mark Zuckerberg, Bruce Lee, Ayn Rand, John Lennon, George Carlin, George Orwell, Gene Roddenberry, Marlon Brando, and Richard Branson.

      Report Post »  
    • Alessandre
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 2:26pm

      @Moderationisbest: “Faith and belief don’t deal in truth, they deal in dogma, control, and superstition.

      For Christians, faith is an encounter w/ the risen Lord that one accepts. it is a minute by minute choice to walk w/ Christ, who is God as revealed in Scripture & become conformed to His image. I’m a Catholic but I think non-Catholic Christians would agree w/ my definition. the original etymology of the word faith is: “loyalty to a person based on promise or duty” from the Latin fidere, “to trust.” that’s what Christians have, loyalty to Christ based on the promises He makes to us. it’s not control or coercion or dogma (which comes from what the faithful believe). it’s choice. you may call it superstition but there is more evidence for the resurrection of Christ than any other ancient historical claim.

      there is a flaw in your definition of knowledge. as you note, dictionary.com indicates faith is also: “belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.” science, that which, for atheists, is the ultimate source of truth, operates in exactly this fashion, trusting that hypotheses will be substantiated. scientists, including friends of mine, spend years, sometimes entire careers, on an experiment that never fully works as they had believed. much of science, including medicine, is belief & faith. no matter how you define truth, we can’t get there w/o faith. you choose to have faith in something, we have fa

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 3:24pm

      MOD says,

      “I won’t even get into your claim that Atheism is a religion.”

      Why not Mod?

      Go ahead…….get into it………..you are an “Evangelical Atheist”

      “An evangelical atheist is one who not only believes there is no god or other supreme being, but is obsessed with convincing everyone around them to become an atheist too, usually through hard-line intolerance (the kind they accuse other religions of). When cornered they usually try to put down their opponent‘s religion and bash them for ’blind faith’ ”

      That quote, and more is from the urban dictionary.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 3:42pm

      @Billy

      Wow Billy, did you purposely make a ridiculous argument that is easy for me to knock down?

      ““An evangelical atheist is one who not only believes there is no god or other supreme being…”
      I have never used the word “believe” to describe my view of the existence or non-existence of a God.

      “but is obsessed with convincing everyone around them to become an atheist too” How would I go about convincing others to become an Atheist when I claim that I don’t know? The main point I have always claimed here is refuting religions claims that “atheists are arrogant and are so sure of themselves” when it is in fact religion who claims assurances, especially with no evidence.

      “usually through hard-line intolerance (the kind they accuse other religions of)” You mean intolerance like having tons of dear friends who are religious? Yup, that sounds like intolerance to me. Unlike religion, I don’t just “tolerate” people, I actually accept them for who they are. I don’t use condescending words like “tolerance” while secretly thinking that they are deserving of an eternity of punishment on an alternate plane of existence that hasn’t been proven to exist.

      “When cornered they usually try to put down their opponent‘s religion and bash them for ’blind faith’ ””
      What a weird way to word this. I could easily “bash” religions “blind faith” without feeling “cornered”.

      “That quote, and more is from the urban dictionary.” I quote

      Report Post »  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 3:47pm

      Hey Billy,

      Ready to try again? Blaze went down again a few hours ago at 1:35 to 1:45pm.
      Looks good now.

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 3:55pm

      @ALESSANDRE

      All of the arguments you could make about Jesus, other religions make about their deities. There is nothing special or original about Christianity.

      There is NO proof to the resurrection of Jesus and to make that claim is again, just being intellectually dishonest. Please do your religion a service and claim that it’s faith that you believe in the resurrection of Jesus and not try to “prove” those claims.

      Once you have proof, faith is irrelevant and unnecessary.

      I don’t “believe” 2+2=4. I don’t have “faith” that 2+2=4

      “For Christians, faith is an encounter w/ the risen Lord that one accepts. it is a minute by minute choice to walk w/ Christ, who is God as revealed in Scripture & become conformed to His image. ”

      Why did you feel the need to them claim in the very next sentence, “I’m a Catholic.”

      It’s because everyone differs on their interpretation of the Bible, yet they all claim divinity behind those claims.

      Again, call it belief, call it faith but don’t call it proof, or true or any other words that deal with how the world actually works.

      Report Post »  
    • Northpaw
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 4:03pm

      I’m underwhelmed by his cafeteria Catholicism; doesn’t believe in a literal hell, can’t answer without flinching or apology who Jesus is when asked if he is God’s son.
      “When I asked Mohr if Jesus is God’s son, he paused briefly. “I think we‘re all God’s sons, because in John 3:16, he says ‘you’re the son of God,‘ but earlier in John he says ’you’re the son of man,’” he claimed.

      Sounds like the Øbama copout on the question does he believe in American Exceptionalism. Some rotgut answer, well yeah we are exceptional but so is Greece and other countries.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 4:03pm

      HI Monk,

      Having lots of power and internet issues today from the storms and heat I guess. Try to get something to you tonight or tomorrow.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 4:06pm

      Hey MOD,

      You proveth my point.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 4:24pm

      Got it Billy….

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • rbinflorida
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 6:02pm

      I am not in total agreement with Jay Mohr, but for the most part he makes some good points. The bottom line, we all need to learn about Jesus Christ. What it means to die for our sins?

      Someone writes that the crucifixion of Christ was written about 40 years after it happened. There is ample evidence that most of the writings we read today were actually written within 5 years, not 40.

      Someone asked (conservativeatheist) – Who created God?…Simply this — we’re here. Scientifically speaking you get nothing from nothing, so since there was nothing in the beginning, the Universe could not possibly create itself in the beginning . If the universe could not create itself, how are we having this conversation? Something else had to happen-there is ample evidence in this world that something greater than ourselves created this universe – figuring out how “God got here” is useless – knowing and understanding what God wants from us is where our attention should turn. I believe Jesus Christ is God, therefore I accept the Holy Bible from Genesis to Revelation and I believe that is the truth we need to follow. You are free to disagree, of course, but concerning yourself with “Where did God come from?” – we’re here and only ONE of two possibilities got us here….I’m going with God, it makes more sense, it is by far more logical, and it is more reasonable.

      Report Post » rbinflorida  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 6:10pm

      @THERIGHTSOFBILLY

      What got caught off was , “I quote Websters, you quote Urban dictionary, ’nuff said.”

      You mean by refuting everyone of your points I proved your point?

      Nice try.

      Your definition claims I try to convince people of what I believe.

      I show you that I have never used the word “believe” to describe my views and that I obviously am not trying to “convince” everyone when my main argument is refuting a claim of arrogance made by the religious.

      Your post states I am intolerant of religious people. I have given you numerous accounts of how much I care about my religious friends, and how respectful I am of their views despite our disagreements. I tell you that I don’t deal in tolerance, I deal in acceptance. I then show you that the type of tolerance you practice is disingenuous especially when you secretly hold the belief that the supposed people you tolerate are actually worthy of getting tortured eternally for the way they live their life.

      I then say that the final statement of your definition makes no sense, because it doesn’t take me being “backed into a corner(haven’t felt like that once)” to call someone’s religion blind faith.

      All of that somehow “proves” your point?

      Admit it, you had no point. I quoted Websters for my definition, and you pull up urban dictionary.

      You used urban dictionary to somehow try and prove that Atheism is a religion.

      It is such a silly argument that it is unworthy of being typed.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 6:24pm

      @RBINFLORIDA

      There isn’t ample evidence that the gospels were written around 5 years after the supposed events.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 7:53pm

      Mod,

      You sure are full of yourself, aren’t you?

      But then again, should we expect anything different?

      Mod, did you even bother to go to the urban dictionary and do a search for “evangelical atheist”?

      I don’t normally use it as a reference tool.

      There was a joke involved.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 10:32pm

      @Billy

      Okay, now you are just being flat out ignorant here and I’m assuming acting like a troll.

      I show you exactly how I’m not “full of myself” by my ability to admit I might be wrong(which you have commented on before).
      You then show how you are “full of yourself” by demanding you are right with NO evidence….

      and you then say to me “you sure are full of yourself.”

      You cant’ be serious, do you even understand English and sentence structure? Do you even understand what arguments are, and evidence? Do you realize that when you speak, and then I respond to your claims, that the next obvious step is for your to respond to my response?

      Go ahead, ask me your “rhetorical” question again.

      No please, make another argument, and when I show how completely idiotic it is, then claim, “oh well that was a joke” or “oh, well I wasn’t really looking for an answer anyways.”

      Please, continually ask me questions, and then read my answers, and then claim I am saying the exact opposite of what I just wrote.

      Seriously, and then when I ask you questions, continually refuse to answer them or make claims that I “already know where you stand” on those issues.

      Your refusal to answer any of my questions or claims shows your cowardice and inability to understand how a conversation works.

      Until you show me that you are able to hold a conversation, I find no reason to waste my time with you anymore. Go back to stalking me from article to article.

      Report Post »  
    • DARIVS
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 10:34pm

      I’m a Catholic, and I also believe in evolution. Basically, I can see how wonderous it is for God to create things that organize and change their form is. It’s like you building a machine that can create things on its own that you never thought of. To me this is no less amazing that POOFING us out of thin air. I think it‘s elegant and beautiful that God’s creations change and grow using the principles and means that God provided. Not EVERYTHING God does has to be a complete mystery. Our drive to learn how the world works is also given to us by God, and it that gift I see purpose. God wants us to grow and learn, change and adapt, physically, intellectually, and spiritually. I don’t think God meant things in the universe to be static and unchanging. I think he loves growth and change. (Maybe not Obama’s change, but that’s another issue!)

      Report Post » DARIVS  
    • mr.goodvibe
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 10:42pm

      I challenge you all to read genesis revisited by zecharia sitchin, you will learn more about science and the bible.

      Report Post » mr.goodvibe  
    • JBARRANCHAZ
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 10:49pm

      @ Conservative-Atheist

      Evolution is neither uniform or universal. Careful going too far down the road of evolution, there is plenty of data that the left WILL NOT let see the light of day regarding the subject. Not because it supports creationism, but because it supports adaptation (often confused for evolution).

      I support anyone that wants to be an Atheist, but I will still pray for you. Also, creationism supports that all men (and women) are created in the image of God and therefore deserve the be treated as such. What does evolution teach?

      Where are the Atheist hospitals and the Atheist aid organizations?

      Report Post »  
    • KStret
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 1:19am

      Mod,
      “Why do you keep using the word “belief” especially when discussing how I view the world? I think that in probably every single post, I’ve never once used the word “believe” to defend why I view the world the way I do.”

      The definition of atheism is someone who believes God doesn’t exist. You are an atheist are you not? It doesn’t matter if you used the word belief or not. Why do you play so many games with semantics?

      Please tell me that you do not believe that God doesn’t exist but rather you lack a belief of God….

      “That is one way in which I am different then Hitchens. I’ve never said, “I don’t believe a God exists” therefore I have no connection to the argument you accused me of.”

      You are an atheist but because you have never actually said I don’t believe God exists and that invalidates my point? What are ridiculous argument! Did you or did you not compare God to a fictitious monster that we both know you don’t believe in?

      This brings us back to my central point that you are attempting to dodge. You are equivocating. You cannot say that you believe that there is a possibility that God exists and then turn around and compare the possibility that God might exist to the possibility that vampires might exist..

      When someone asserts that you don’t believe in God, you argue that you believe that there is a possibility that he might exist, which is not true because you compared God to werewolves.
      This is incredibly disingenuou

      Report Post » KStret  
    • KStret
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 1:24am

      “When people tell me “prove God doesn’t exist” I don’t shift the burden of proof back to them though I do think it’s silly to make a claim and then demand someone disprove it.”

      You have the reasonability to explain you rationale for not believing in God. This would entail
      1. Arguments against the existence of God
      2. Arguments in favor of atheism.

      “I simply say that I can‘t prove a God doesn’t exist, but that doesn’t mean that he does.”

      It doesn‘t mean he doesn’t either.

      “To try and say that those are the only three kind of statements I have made is being intellectually dishonest. ”

      I didn’t say those are the only three kinds statements atheist make. However, they are the main arguments that the majority of atheists use. I asked you if I should go on? Would you like to state the argument from evil?

      Can you make any argument that isn’t predicated on avoiding your burden of proof, pathetically attempting to redefine atheism to avoid your burden of proof, repeating there is no evidence ad nauseam, or making the straw-man monster fallacy?

      “I have never even begun to suggest to blame the entire problem in the world on Christianity……They then appeal to things like faith or you have other people on this site like the guy named Luke who just flat out say, “I don’t need evidence.” Well statements like that just prove my point.”

      You stereotype Christians, why can’t I stereotype atheists?

      Once you run out of cliches and

      Report Post » KStret  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 1:41am

      @KStret

      “The definition of atheism is someone who believes God doesn’t exist. You are an atheist are you not? It doesn’t matter if you used the word belief or not. Why do you play so many games with semantics?”

      To imply that there is one type of Atheist would be as silly as me saying that there is one type of Christian, or Muslim, or Mormon. There are Atheists who say they “know” a God doesn’t exist. There are Atheists who say they don’t believe in a God. There are atheists who say they can’t prove a God exists, but still use the word “believe” in other terms of daily life. Something like “I believe non-violence is the best way“ I made a clear determination that I never use the word ”believe” to discuss how I view the world.

      “This brings us back to my central point that you are attempting to dodge. You are equivocating. You cannot say that you believe that there is a possibility that God exists and then turn around and compare the possibility that God might exist to the possibility that vampires might exist”

      I have never said that I believe in the possibility of a God. My argument has always been that while I think that it is unlikely a God exists, I can’t prove that. There is a difference in the formation of my view.

      “When someone asserts that you don’t believe in God, you argue that you believe that there is a possibility that he might exist, which is not true because you compared God to werewolves.”

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 2:01am

      @KStret
      Can you provide evidence that werewolves don’t exist?(see, it’s silly right?) Why do you think God(specifically your God) has any special weight behind it? Can you prove that Zeus never existed? Can you prove that Odin never existed? Surely you must see it is hilarious to be the one to make the original claim, and then demand I disprove it.

      Atheism is a response to the claim, “there is a God” Without the original claim of a God, it wouldn’t be possible to be an Atheist.
      I can’t reject the idea of fairies before someone claims they exist

      “You have the reasonability to explain your rationale for not believing in God. This would entail
      1. Arguments against the existence of God
      2. Arguments in favor of atheism.”

      I have before and if you would like me to go into detail, I will.

      “Can you make any argument that isn’t predicated on avoiding your burden of proof”

      Do you know what burden of proof means? “the duty of proving a disputed assertion or charge” If i’m denying your charge, how can then it be on me to prove your charge is untrue? Do we require defendants to prove the charges against them are untrue? Or do we demand that the prosecution proves that the charges they make are true?

      “You stereotype Christians, why can’t I stereotype atheists?”

      Because your stereotype is hilariously flawed. Atheism is the rejection of all deities, not just the Christian one. If you’re going to stereotype me, at least make it a val

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 2:15am

      @Kstret
      “at least make it a valid one”

      A valid one might be, “that atheists blame the entire problem in the world on religion.”

      You claimed I stereotyped Christians, so I went out of my way to point out Christians on here who flat out say they don’t need evidence to prove their God exists. These are the same people who call me arrogant and then in the next verse say, “I know God exists and I don’t need evidence.”

      I have clearly stated my views on the world and that I express uncertainty and doubt
      The majority on here have clearly stated their views on the world and they express certainty with no evidence.
      They then proceed to call me the arrogant one and “full of myself.” It is illogical.

      But seriously

      Say I’m a juror in a courtroom.

      You’re the prosecuting attorney of a murder case.

      You lay out all of your evidence and when you look at my face, you come to the conclusion that I’m not buying into your evidence that the defendant committed the crime.

      Would it then make sense for you to say, “Well the defense hasn‘t proven that he didn’t commit the murder!”

      Any prosecuting attorney would be laughed out of the courtroom.

      When you say, “There is a God, here is my evidence” I am merely saying, “The evidence you have given me is insufficient to think there is a God.”

      When you say, “I have faith/belief there is a God.“ I can then say ”that isn’t evidence.”

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 2:31am

      @Kstret

      When you say, “I know a God exists and I don’t need evidence” I might point out that I think it’s stupid to accept things without evidence.

      In any of my cases, I never used the word “faith” or “believe” and I never claimed that a God doesn’t exist. I am merely saying that I am not swayed by your reasoning(or lack thereof in some cases).

      There are some atheists who might say they don’t “believe” in a God. Again, I named a few of the big ones and most of them don’t use the word believe. I don’t know any other atheists personally, but when talking about the existence of God, if someone asks me, “what do you believe” I always make a clear distinction to say that I don’t use the word “believe.” I then explain why I don‘t use the word believe to describe my views and why others shouldn’t either. I will then start talking about how I view the world. You claim I stereotype Christians, yet you haven’t said what type of Christian you are.

      You stereotyped me despite me claiming what type of Atheist I am. You say I use cliches, yet I am talking about specific people on here and specific instances.

      I have shown you on here how despite how silly it is, I haven’t shifted the burden of proof that you lay on me(never claimed proof anyways).
      I have shown you on here with a real life account how silly it is to try to shift the burden of proof.
      I have shown you on here how I view the world and how I respond to religious claims.

      Yet I’m u

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 2:39am

      Hey Mod.

      Either you did not like my little joke, or you did not bother to run the search for “evangelical atheist”
      at the urban dictionary……….so here is the link.

      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=evangelical+atheist

      Mod, I don’t stalk you from story to story. Don’t you know what the word “stalking” means?
      When I stumble upon one of your posts that contains things that you claim you never say, I call you on it. I’m sure you post many times that I never even notice.

      As far as having an intelligent debate with you………you are not a genuine or serious person, so I do not take you seriously.

      As has been pointed out many times by many people, you equivocate, you mince words, and you continually say things that you say you never say. And then when it is pointed out to you, you once again say you never said it.

      If you have not noticed yet, most people that take the time to entertain debating with you, soon tire of the game, and stop responding to you. (Yes, I went there……I called it a game again.)

      And it’s not because you have out-debated them.

      I’d still like an honest answer from you on what it is you hope to gain.

      IF I came back here tomorrow and said that you had convinced me that atheism is the way, would that please you? Would you sleep better at night knowing that? I really have a hard time understanding your motivation.

      I’m sure there is some underlying psychological reason, but it escapes me.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 3:02am

      @Billy

      I guess I don‘t understand how it’s a joke. I used well known definitions from reputable sources to show the difference between “know” and “faith” because you were obviously having a hard time understanding the difference. You then provide a definition from a joke site?

      Hahaha? Apparently I don’t get the humor behind it.

      “If you have not noticed yet, most people that take the time to entertain debating with you, soon tire of the game, and stop responding to you.”
      “http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-panel-debates-why-americas-youth-are-allegedly-beginning-to-doubt-gods-existence/

      Does this look like they “soon grew tired” of debating me?
      Do a search for shortened versions of my name. I think only like 25 of those are my posts.

      Certainly there seems to be some interest in talking to me. While sometimes they may not make the best of arguments(neither do I all the time), people like Kstret actually use their brain to think up responses.

      What do I hope to gain? I’ve answered that before. I like talking about this stuff…oh wait, is it rhetorical now?

      I applauded someone on here who actually read what I said and repeated it back to me successfully(it was the person who said its the hypocrisy of religion that annoys me the most). I have had good discussion with Bad_Ashe and decent discussions with someone else(can’t remember). I can’t help but deny the claims you say I make when I never say them.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 3:17am

      “As has been pointed out many times by many people, you equivocate, you mince words, and you continually say things that you say you never say. And then when it is pointed out to you, you once again say you never said it.”

      Let’s point out one supposed example of me “equivocating, mincing words and saing things that you say you never said.”

      I state exactly how I view the world in terms of “my” Atheism.
      KStret, you and others say, “That’s not Atheism, this(insert your view of Atheism) is Atheism”
      That is mincing words on my part?

      I say something like, “There were Christians, Deists and Atheists who played a fundamental role in the foundation of America but they came together to decide that we couldn’t be ruled by a Christian law(usually this in response to the claim, “we’re a Christian nation!”)”
      I then get responses back of, “Oh so you‘re saying that the founding fathers weren’t Christians?!”
      That’s equivocating on my part to you?

      Report Post »  
    • KStret
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 3:43pm

      Mod,
      “To imply that there is one type of Atheist would be as silly as me saying that there is one type of Christian, or Muslim, or Mormon.”

      Atheism is not a theology. It’s a pretty simple concept. Once again, the definition of atheism is someone who believes that God doesn’t exist.

      “There are Atheists who say they “know” a God doesn’t exist. ”

      Atheism asserts a belief that God doesn’t exist. You are playing semantics games again. It doesn‘t matter if an atheist says that they know that God doesn’t exist or compare the existence of God to a vampire. You are proving my point. You want to argue about the definition of atheism.

      “There are atheists who say they can’t prove a God exists, but still use the word “believe” in other terms of daily life. Something like “I believe non-violence is the best way“ I made a clear determination that I never use the word ”believe” to discuss how I view the world. ”

      You keep making the same ridiculous argument. It doesn’t matter if you used the word belief or not or if you compare the existence of God to a vampire, the result is the same. Even though you never actually said the word belief, you are insinuating that you believe that God doesn’t exist. You do in fact believe that God doesn’t exist. Coincidentally, that also happens to be the definition of atheism. Weird…….

      By repeating that you never actually used the word belief, you seem to be dancing around the pathetic redefinition of t

      Report Post » KStret  
    • KStret
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 3:46pm

      “I have never said that I believe in the possibility of a God. My argument has always been that while I think that it is unlikely a God exists, I can’t prove that. ”

      If you actually believed that it was unlikely that leaves the possibility that God might exist. I just looked out side. I would say that it is unlikely that it it going to rain today. Does that mean that I think the chance of rain is the equivalent of you turning into a werewolf tonight? Stop equivocating!

      “Can you provide evidence that werewolves don’t exist?(see, it’s silly right?) ”

      No, constructing a straw-man monster to knock down God’s existence is silly. You are conflating the lack of evidence mantra with good evidence that something doesn’t exist.

      If someone makes a claim that they turn into a wolf during a full moon, lock them up, and see if they change into a wolf during the full moon. There have been people who made this claim and none of them turned into a wolf. Subsequently, after they didn’t turn into a wolf, they enjoyed a nice vacation in a padded room. There is also good evidence that people cannot shape-shift……

      “Can you prove that Zeus never existed? Can you prove that Odin never existed?”

      Why is it Greek mythology instead of Greek theology? Zeus lives on Mount Olympus, people go to mount Olympus and Zeus isn’t there….

      Report Post » KStret  
    • KStret
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 3:53pm

      “Atheism is a response to the claim, “there is a God” Without the original claim of a God, it wouldn’t be possible to be an Atheist.”

      That is great but the definition of atheism is the belief that God doesn’t exist. Please say that atheism is a lack of a belief.

      “Do you know what burden of proof means? “the duty of proving a disputed assertion or charge” If i’m denying your charge, how can then it be on me to prove your charge is untrue?”

      I have no idea what it means, I am a christian which means that I am dumb. You are also making the claim that God doesn’t exist. This means that you also have a burden of proof. You need to make a case in favor of atheism.

      “Do we require defendants to prove the charges against them are untrue? Or do we demand that the prosecution proves that the charges they make are true?”

      First of all, we are not standing in front of a judge and jury in a court room, are we? No one is being charged and this is not a legal issue. To act is if we are in a court room is preposterous. Once again, you are committing a category error.

      Secondly, think abut what you are actually saying. You have a belief that God doesn‘t exist but you don’t have to justify it. What you are saying is only the positive claim has the burden of proof. That like the majority of atheist cliches and catch phrases is a logical fallacy. You do have to justify your beliefs and this is not a legal case.

      Report Post » KStret  
    • KStret
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 3:57pm

      “Because your stereotype is hilariously flawed.”

      Do you realize that you have validated my criticism of atheists. You have made every argument that I said you would.

      “You claimed I stereotyped Christians, so I went out of my way to point out Christians on here who flat out say they don’t need evidence to prove their God exists. ”

      You are constantly stereotyping Christians. You have done this on other message boards as well. If it’s permissible for you to do, why can’t I stereotype atheists. Do you look like the comic book guy from the Simpsons?

      Just because a Christian said that they don’t need evidence, does it mean that all Christians are like that?

      “These are the same people who call me arrogant”

      I agree with you that a Christian can not simply shrug and say that they don’t need any evidence. That being said, you strike me as being completely arrogant. Apparently you do not realize how arrogantly that you present yourself.

      “The majority on here have clearly stated their views on the world and they express certainty with no evidence.They then proceed to call me the arrogant one and “full of myself.” It is illogical. ”

      You can disagree that God exists without calling some stupid. The majority of people aren’t calling you arrogant because you disagree with them. It’s the way you disagree with them.

      Report Post » KStret  
    • KStret
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 4:00pm

      “You’re the prosecuting attorney of a murder case.”

      You are committing the category error logical fallacy. This is not a legal issue…….

      “When you say, “I know a God exists and I don’t need evidence” I might point out that I think it’s stupid to accept things without evidence.”

      If it is stupid to accept things with out evidence, wouldn’t it also be stupid to accept atheism without evidence?

      “I never used the word “faith” or “believe” and I never claimed that a God doesn’t exist. I am merely saying that I am not swayed by your reasoning(or lack thereof in some cases).”

      You know that it is disingenuous to say that you never said that God doesn’t exist and that you are not swayed when you continually compare God to werewolves and things like that. Once again, by comparing God to a werewolf you are saying that there is no way in H-e double hockey sticks that you believe that there is even a slight possibility that God exists. You have not rebutted to this point.

      When you make a fallacious argument and you can’t rebut the point, is it logical, reasonable and intelligent to keep making the same point? Stop equivocating!

      Report Post » KStret  
    • KStret
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 4:03pm

      “I always make a clear distinction to say that I don’t use the word “believe.” I

      It doesn’t matter if you use the word belief or not. Are you trying to argue that you don’t have a belief about the existence of God with out saying that? If you don’t have a belief ,you don’t have an opinion. You do have an opinion, so please stop repeating the same asinine comment that you don’t use the word belief.

      “You stereotyped me despite me claiming what type of Atheist I am. You say I use cliches, yet I am talking about specific people on here and specific instances.”

      First of all, there are no types of atheists. If you want to create atheist sub-categories to make your self feel smarter so you can say, “I am negative atheist of the type 2.23454 variety” and to avoid the atheists own burden of proof, you are free to do that. However, everyone else who doesn’t have a neck beard and pony tail is going to use the standard definition of atheism.

      Secondly, You affirmed every argument that I attributed to atheists. You claimed I was stereotyping atheists and then turned around and made every argument you said was a stereotype. Everyone of those argument is predicated on a logical fallacy.

      The burden of proof- Logical fallacy
      Not enough evidence- logical fallacy
      Prove to me that X monster doesn’t exist – logical fallacy

      Report Post » KStret  
    • Beardancer
      Posted on July 2, 2012 at 10:48am

      Jay is missing the point and as many Catholics, I know, I was one and my parents still are, they conveniently ignore the importance of the “Born-again” experience and cultivating a relationship with God, who is Christ, and being baptized in the Holy Spirit which brings the Word of God to life. Not many want this part of Spirtuality because it holds them accountable, pomp and ceremony does not. It’s a heart issue and a relationship issue. The Bible does say “unless you become as a little child (i.e., “childlike”) you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” Matt 18:3; and also, “God uses the foolish things to confound the wise.” 1 Corinthians 1:20-27. So actually the athiests have it right to call us child-like and foolish. Duh. That‘s God’s way.
      To asume the right to interpret the Bible the way we want to, with our own “wisdom” rather than by the Spirit of the Living God is dangerous and that‘s why we have so many people saying they are Christian but don’t walk it out or talk about it correctly. That’s why so may hate Christianity. It has to based out of Love (and God is love) otherwise it’s all noise. 1 Corinthians 13.
      Jesus Christ died on a cross and took all the beatings and scourging for a purpose. Because He is the only way to heaven. If people would seek God in their hearts and stop putting their own thoughts and opinions into it, they’d see what an incredible and joyous journey following Christ really is. So until one meets God personally, one knows n

      Report Post »  
  • John TB
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:43pm

    The concept of Satan contridicts an all powerful and loving all good God. Satan was a construct of the Babylonian captivity and Zoasterism. Prior, evil was only came from man. There was no bogeyman. The serpent in the garden is first a story, not reality. If man came from only one man and one woman, we would all be inbred. Where did the diversity come from? We are not a shallow gene pool. I believe in God but a passive one. Someone that created all but allow us to live our lives using our free will. God does not hurt us. We hurt each other. God does not punish but at the same time, does not reward those that do not deserve reward. Fire and brimstone is for the simple and uneducated. The love of God is more complicated. It is easier to bring fear than it is to bring contentment through the knowledge that God is all caring.

    Report Post »  
    • JediKnight
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 5:27pm

      The concept of Satan is supported by a God that let’s his creation choose freely. Satan (Lucifer) chose to disobey. Disobedience is not tolerated in Heaven, so he was cast out.

      As far as the gene pool is concerned, you’re forgetting that the Sons of Heaven were mating with the Daughters of Man. It is likely that a lot of diversity came out of that. Plus, Noah’s sons went on to become the three main nations of people.

      Jay Mohr is clearly showing a lack of knowledge when it comes to the Bible. “I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Christ also let the crowds leave (he didn’t chase after them) when they chose not to believe in him. Peter and a few others stuck around.

      I’ll pray that his knowledge and relationship with God improves, but right now, he has a lot to learn.

      Report Post »  
    • Alessandre
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 6:44pm

      @Moderationisbest: I had a lovely argument about knowing for you & then I found these videos by scientists (real ones) & a philosopher that do the job so much better. I‘m sure you’ll love quantum physics, biology, chemistry & philosophy. I know I do. interesting that we come to such different conclusions. but then you reduce the ability to know to what can be measured using scientific principles & I allow knowing to include all the ways one can know, including science but also including my heart. so the scientists are probably a better chioce:

      Dr. Gerald Schroeder & scientific proof of God: http://youtu.be/LzetqYev_AI

      why philosopher Anthony Flew is no longer an atheist: http://youtu.be/fbyTwmaJArU

      why Richard Lumsden, PhD converted from an atheist to a Christian when he realized evolution is intellectually bankrupt & intellectually corrupt; that it’s pseudo science. he says God is the only alternative to materialistic atheism; no one has found a third (I find this statement interesting & wonder if you would say there is a third alternative): http://youtu.be/s91-ABJ49ho

      scientific response to the accidental soup theory: http://youtu.be/iAY9d-tiO_Y

      what it comes down to is freedom to choose. some choose God, some reject Him.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 10:21pm

      @ALESSANDRE

      I have said numerous times on here that conversions to anything don’t mean anything.

      Because someone converts from Atheism to Christianity doesn’t then make their arguments and claims more true.

      If so, you would then have to accept that someone who converts from Christianity to Islam, Christianity to Mormonism, Christianity to Atheism then holds more valid arguments as to why Christianity is wrong which a logical fallacy.

      Let‘s dispense with these scientists who don’t accept evolution as some big number myth. Do a search for “Project Steve” and see how insignificant the number of evolution deniers there are in the scientific community.

      Report Post »  
  • not2cool2believe
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:43pm

    “He also calls the notion that hell is a literal lake of fire “absurd,” claiming that to punish those born before Christ with hell (i.e. they didn‘t and couldn’t yet believe, so they can’t possibly be accountable) wouldn’t be fair.”
    Just a thought…the people that lived before Jesus were saved if they believed that the Savior was coming as written in the bible.

    Also remember that God is our Father in every way. Would a father turn his back on his child because he a made the wrong decision because he was “tricked”? The devil has a nasty way of tricking people to move away from Christ.

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  • canadianlady
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:33pm

    Mr. Mohr seems to believe whatever he wants and then calls himself Catholic. I hope the spiritual seed that’s been planted inside Mr. Mohr‘s heart isn’t on rocky soil.

    Report Post »  
    • soybomb315
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 10:01pm

      Some very strange things in there. He doesnt think the ten commandments were actually written on stone….uh, has he read the Old Testament? Then he provides some Old Testament mis-interpretations.

      “I don‘t think anybody’s going to hell because they don‘t believe in Jesus Christ as God’s son”
      RED ALERT. RED ALERT. RED ALERT
      If he really thinks that, then he doesnt understand the bible. He doesnt have to believe in an eternal hell, but if he thinks they will get into heaven – wow is all i can say.

      I’m so tired of people not taking a more literal reading of the bible. It is KILLING mainstream christianity. Simillarly, people no longer take the Constitution literally – and look where it has gotten us…

      Report Post » soybomb315  
  • GoodStuff
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:32pm

    “So, four years ago, he realized that he needed structure — something he claims Catholicism inevitably brought him.”

    Christianity isn’t about structure or rituals. That is legalism. Jesus spoke out against that continuously. Legalism makes a mockery of the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Unfortunately, Catholicism and Mormonisn both teach good works and legalism as means to salvation, and Grace is placed on the back burner, even the though the Bible says that it is Grace and Grace alone that saves…through Christ.

    Report Post »  
    • hi
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 7:28pm

      Yes, it was the pious priests who outwardly did not sin who crucified Jesus. They had no love in their hearts and were unable to recognize Christ.

      Report Post » hi  
    • triplecross1658
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 7:48pm

      I must ask you this one question. What came first, the bible or the church? The church came 3 days after Christs death. The bible came 300 years later. If the bible came from the church how is it possible to say the church is wrong?

      Report Post »  
    • BlesstheJews
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 10:40pm

      Yep, sonds like he found religion and not a relationship.

      Report Post »  
  • Conservative-Atheist
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:23pm

    Child like rejection of god.

    I thought believing in fairy tales was child like, not the opposite.

    Report Post » Conservative-Atheist  
    • GoodStuff
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:37pm

      You mean like the fairy tale of evolution?

      Still trying to find a transitional fossil? Still?

      Report Post »  
    • justangry
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:44pm

      I was kind of miffed when I heard that. No more disappointed than seeing your comment though. Making fun of someone’s faith or lack thereof just seems distasteful, and I’m quite tired of it. I mean SOME on both sides that believe they‘re so enlightened to have all the answers tend to act out demonstrating they really don’t know squat either.

      Report Post » justangry  
    • Conservative-Atheist
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:50pm

      Since you ask, when I say fairy tale I mean stuff like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Humpty Dumpty, Hansel and Gretyl…like that.

      I’m not referring to science.

      Report Post » Conservative-Atheist  
    • Conservative-Atheist
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:57pm

      @justangry

      You’re right of course, I shouldn’t have gone there. It does get frustrating though to read the constant attacks on atheists here and sometimes I can go to far in my response. We all make mistakes but that doesn’t excuse the behavior. For the record, I don’t think belief in god means people are stupid. I just wish there weren’t so many comments here saying that non-belief indicates stupidity.

      Report Post » Conservative-Atheist  
    • justangry
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 12:52am

      Oh, I hear ya. I’m an agnostic myself and have felt the same way MANY times before. Especially on this site.

      Report Post » justangry  
    • davecorkery
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 10:12am

      Goodstuff

      Where have you been? In church? We have found 12 (that I can think of) transitional fossils in the last ten years alone. The one they found near Hudson’s Bay was the most spectacular, being almost complete. The world has been mapped out so well that we can now have much more accuracy in deciding where to look for these fossils. We are only going to find more. So if we get 99.9% of the puzzle, you would say that since we don’t have the other 0.1%, we don’t have anything? How childish. Your attitude is doomed. But you’ll probably find another straw to grasp at. Eventually, some charming and eloquent TV evangelist will come up with a way to link Darwin’s theory and the bible, and “prove”that both are right. You will go for it because you like being led. We are winning. You are losing. Get over it.

      Report Post »  
  • tradcatholicgirl
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:23pm

    It sounds like he has the humility that will keep him open enough to grow in his faith. Conversion is an ongoing process. Talk to him two years from now. His ideas on all he mentioned will have evolved. Early days yet for Mohr in discovering the beauty of his faith.

    Report Post »  
    • loriann12
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 6:46am

      When I first got saved, I smoked 2 and a half packs of cigarettes a day. God doesn’t like idols, and they had become mine. I wouldn’t go to a movie because it meant 2 hours without a cigarette. It was the first thing God had me give up. I quit in a matter of about a week and a half, not quite cold turkey, but really close. But I became a non-smoking Nazi. Then one day I realized that someone could smoke and it not be an idol to them. God tells people different things. To some, being seen in Church every time the doors open, just to be seen being righteous is an idol. To some, it‘s drugs that they can’t/won’t give up. Everyone is different and God speaks for different priorities. Yes, he will grow as his knowledge and relationship grows. And to those who say he can‘t be saved because he’s catholic, you’re nuts. I am Baptist and I know some Baptists who aren’t truly saved, and Catholics that make better Christians.

      Report Post »  
  • kbuffin
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:14pm

    Listen….if it where called the “Book of Jay” then he could decide which parts are real and which parts are interpretational. But its called the Bible and there comes a point in every Christians walk where they have to make a decision. Is Jesus who he says he is or am I making him into something else?Some watered down version of who he says he is. Salvation lives in the full story and the cool part is that he left it up to us whether we want to take it or not. Twenty years into my walk with the Lord I can no longer deny any part of him. He has proven himself to me to many times for me to not at least give him that courtesy.

    Report Post »  
  • Waterlylys
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:55pm

    I wonder what he does with the scriptures and words of Jesus, when Jesus Himself says, “I am the way….” But I do believe Mr. Mohr is on the right track and will pray for him. Our few years in Cali showed us that there are many “closet” Christians and many who are far more conventional in their thoughts than Mr. Mohr.

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    • Hammerdown
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:15pm

      Glad for the direction he’s taking but to listen to his podcast that has a language warning attached to it? Two and two are having a difficult time adding up.

      Report Post »  
  • Conservative-Atheist
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:50pm

    “Mohr, who grew up in a Presbyterian church, claims that he’s always been a person of faith. As a child, he sang in the choir, played the bells and participated in church activities.”

    “the actor said that his conversion story dumbfounds many non-believers, because they can‘t comprehend how an adult who wasn’t indoctrinated ended up accepting Christian doctrines.”
    _______________________
    ***Obviously contradictory statements. His ‘conversion’ story is just that, a story, not the truth, which might explain why some non-believers might be dumbfounded by it.

    Report Post » Conservative-Atheist  
    • troymac20
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 5:11pm

      I noticed that too, didn’t know what he was talking about….guess it left me dumbfounded as well.

      Report Post » troymac20  
  • Smokey_Bojangles
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:46pm

    Hope that does not stop him from some of his funnier jokes.The one about “Soap being the only thing that you would rub on your butt and then rub on your face,you would not do that with apple sauce.” That was pretty funny.

    Report Post » Smokey_Bojangles  
  • Simple-James
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:38pm

    This guy is an idiot and a hippocrite. Congrats you’ve built your life on playing “make believe”. Pretending to be imaginary characters with others playing imaginary characters… for money. Now, name calling to those whom don’t share your views?
    Yeah… I’m the child.

    Report Post » Simple-James  
  • blackyb
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:34pm

    Moher better take the Bible literally because God does not make mistakes. He needs to read and study the KJV and/or Schofields. If he cannot believe the word of God and understand it, then he may better ask God to show him what he is missing.

    Report Post » blackyb  
    • Elena2010
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:51pm

      What really matters is that he loves God with every fibre of his being and loves his neighbor as himself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

      In time as he grows in grace and wisdom, his view of the Scriptures will mature.

      He belongs to Jesus, so don’t you get in the way.

      Report Post » Elena2010  
    • capelady
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 8:45pm

      You do realize that those are not the original scriptures, right? There is much to be learned by going back to the original Greek and Hebrew that the scriptures were written in because both of those languages are much more precise than English… and since the KJV was written in 17th Century English…I think the original Greek is probably a whole lot more reliable.

      I am always amused by Christians who know it all because they read the KJV of the Bible… and yet when you study the Greek meanings of many of the English words it puts those very scriptures in a whole new light.

      Open your mind… and your heart, and don’t be too quick to condemn others. We are all on a journey and each individual‘s progress is the Holy Ghost’s responsibility… not yours, or mine.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 10:17pm

      Yo Capelady:

      Correcting is not condemning … and from what I read almost everything this guy understands is incorrect … that is some poor/false teaching he is believing. I can be on first base, but if it’s in the wrong stadium …yo I’m out …you at least need to have the fundamentals down to be in the game…

      Report Post »  
    • spunkymonkey
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 12:26pm

      BlackYB, which Bible is he supposed to take literally? The KLV, Greek?

      Which one?

      Listen, the Bible has been written, edited, rewritten, re-edited, had books put in and then thrown out.

      To take one version as the literal word of God is treading on thin ice I’m afraid.
      It’s how you treat your fellow man that matters.

      Report Post »  
    • soybomb315
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 10:05pm

      Theres only two things worth caring about in this world – the Bible and the Constitution. They were both written for the average person and there is no ‘interpretation’ needed

      Report Post » soybomb315  
  • ozchambers
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:31pm

    I think Jay’s interpretation of Christianity and The Bible will likely help him and his family be better citizens or neighbors here on Earth, but unfortunately will do nothing to help him once he’s left this life.

    Report Post » ozchambers  
  • Simonne
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:27pm

    I enjoyed reading this article maybe because I agree with him on most points. One exception is I believe Jesus is the son of God but we have believe differently. I’m more concerned with my own relationship with God, my beliefs, & not concerned how anyone believes. Being a good person is what counts.

    Report Post »  
    • hi
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 7:29pm

      What was the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross then?

      Report Post » hi  
  • cortezhistory
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:26pm

    Jay, 2Thess. chapter 1 is clear:

    “when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with [f]His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified [g]in His [h]saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.”

    Eternal hell is real. Jesus taught more about this subject than he taught on heaven. This doctrine does not bring joy to the heart of the Christian, it brings a sense of urgency.

    False gospels are all around us…

    Report Post » cortezhistory  
    • dogdr
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:26pm

      Of course there is more about hell than heaven in the bible.
      That is what religion relies on–FEAR.
      Fear is one of the strongest emotions and most likely to be generalized beyond the original inctement.

      Without fear, religion would not stand a chance.

      Report Post »  
    • Marine25
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 7:56pm

      @dogdr
      Well said.
      And science has killed ‘god’ after ‘god’ by explaining the very things that mankind could not understand, and therefore feared. And science will eventually kill contemporary ‘gods’ as well.
      Until then believers will continue to attack science even if it means damaging the earth and civilization.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 7:49am

      Yo Dogdr:

      Revelation ( the book of) say’s, that the cowardly WILL NOT see the kingdom of heaven. Thus your WHOLE idea at least according to christianity is absolutely and completely WRONG!

      Report Post »  
  • tweetybird
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:19pm

    Ephesians 2:8 – For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. Also, John 14:6 – Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. What that means to me is if you do not believe in Jesus, you don’t go to Heaven. Jesus is the one who died for your sins….not Budda, not Muhammed, not the Dahli Lama…..Obama can’t save you. ONLY JESUS can save. Mohr is right about 1 thing….God doesn’t send people to hell…..the person sends themselves to hell in their own foolish and selfish ways. Gotta love that free will.

    Report Post » tweetybird  
  • PeaceAndHarmony
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:17pm

    “I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
    – Stephen F. Roberts

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  • jcldwl
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:04pm

    He refers to John 3:16 but then says this.
    When pushed a bit further and asked if Christ is “the way” to God, Mohr said, “I think Jesus is the way for me…I don‘t think anybody’s going to hell because they don‘t believe in Jesus Christ as God’s son. God is too loving to allow people to go to hell for choosing to believe in something else.” This, of course, would be a sticking point for many believers, but Mohr maintains that the belief that one must accept Christ to reach heaven is “too exclusionary.”
    He has a lot to learn and needs to sit down and read and study the bible. You do have to accept Jesus as the Son of God.
    For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son that whosever BELIEVETH in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16 You can’t argue it.

    Report Post » jcldwl  
    • Welcome Black Carter
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:20pm

      In his new found faith he cannot believe the comandments were printed on stone…
      is this why the Catholic church is dieing? Jesus is not the only way to salvation. I think he needs a Bible based church. He will not get what he needs where he is at. Probably really enjoys the Latin mass though.

      Report Post » Welcome Black Carter  
    • The_Doors_Of_Perception
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:24pm

      Well he has as much proof of the existence of hell as you do. Which is none. I mean just by a sheer numbers game you are probably going to hell. Over the millennia since humans have been around and created hells and underworlds the likely hood your belief is correct would be like winning a very large lottery.

      Report Post » The_Doors_Of_Perception  
    • @leftfighter
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:24pm

      Right on. He’s a non-believing Catholic.

      Also, I’m taking umbrage with how this is written… “Obviously, he’s rooted in a more theologically liberal footing. His current church, he says, has an “all are welcome” policy, which means that anyone and everyone is allowed through the house of worship’s front doors (it even has a gay and lesbian-friendly mass).”

      While my church isn’t offering gay and lesbian friendly services, gays and lesbians aren’t turned away. The way this is written, you’d think that shunning gays and lesbians is commonplace in more Conservative congregations. That simply isn’t true. In fact, most Christians would speak out loudly against the Westboro people, who *are* the ones who would do something like that.

      While it’s good to know Mohr is on the right track, he’s clearly got a long way to go.

      Report Post » @leftfighter  
    • castuslonginus
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:26pm

      He almost had me thinking he is a real believer,Jay, you can’t get there without Jesus Christ. If there is another way,why did He have to die on the cross?If there is another way,that was a dirty trick to play on Jesus.Keep looking earnestly and you will find Him, He said so.

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    • Conservative New Yorker
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:04pm

      @leftfighter-

      Thanks for your post as I echo your sentiments. Our pastor is a conservative who preaches Christ’s teachings that we are to love one another and not to judge. In fact, in a few sermons, he has chastised those who do pass judgement on others.

      Gays and lesbians are welcome in our church. Are there “Christian” factions that wouldn’t? Yes but there are self-righteous (and not necessarily church goers too) jerks in all areas of life. Our role and job is to love and bring others into the love of Christ and God.

      I’m tired of conservative Christians being portrayed as homophobic because, as you stated, most of us aren’t. It’s a convenient label for the libs and SOME atheists to try to pigeon-hole us to make themselves feel superior. Yeah, right.

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    • castuslonginus
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:17pm

      Gays and lesbians would be welcome in the church where i am amember. They would be treated as graciously as anyone else. They would hear the truth about their behaviour in Gods word but they would not be treated badly.They need deliverance,not destruction.

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  • SimpleTruths
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:04pm

    “To not believe that there’s something larger than you, to me, is the most child-like belief…”
    No, believing in the tooth fairy is child-like. Not believing in bronze age myths is adult-like behavior.

    Report Post » SimpleTruths  
    • DanMan2012
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:43pm

      Covering your ears and singing seems rather childish to me!

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    • Pontiac
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 7:32pm

      Singing and praying every sunday (the wrong day of the week btw) sounds rather insecure to me.

      Report Post » Pontiac  
    • goodone121
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 6:12pm

      First of all, Pontiac (and alinmatt), it is a HISTORICALLY VERIFIABLE TRUTH Jesus was resurrected on the Sunday immediately following his crucifixion. Secondly, on the basis of the Bible and Tradition, we believe God exists, and is who he says he is. If he exists, and is who he says he is (Infinite Love), then it only makes sense to praise his very ESSENCE.

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    • Pontiac
      Posted on July 1, 2012 at 11:43am

      [it is a HISTORICALLY VERIFIABLE TRUTH Jesus was resurrected]
      No, it is not “verifiable” that he was resurrected. The story of who witnessed his resurrection isn’t even consistant. Regardless, as commanded, you were to keep the sabbath holy…which was a saturday.

      [If he exists, and is who he says he is (Infinite Love), then it only makes sense to praise his very ESSENCE.]
      Children being raped, tortured, suffering from cancer, disease, starvation… Yeah not so infinite it seams. It’s not gods love you feel. It‘s a dopamine or endorphin release you’ve become addicted to and associate with some bronze age mythology.

      http://i45.tinypic.com/17z29u.jpg

      Report Post » Pontiac  
  • hipconservative
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:03pm

    C’mon Blaze editors: “pull-bearer?” it’s pallbearer.

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    • T-2
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:15pm

      thanks for pointing that out. i thought i’ve been saying it wrong all these years.

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  • girlnurse
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:01pm

    {”I don‘t think anybody’s going to hell because they don‘t believe in Jesus Christ as God’s son. God is too loving to allow people to go to hell for choosing to believe in something else.”….Mohr maintains that the belief that one must accept Christ to reach heaven is “too exclusionary.”}

    So I guess he is calling Jesus a liar then ha?? Sigh….I don’t know what God this guy is serving, but its not the God of the bible.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4FLAeu5Rg&feature=player_detailpage

    The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41, 42).

    Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire (Matthew 18:8, 9).

    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).

    Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:44).

    Report Post » girlnurse  
    • The_Doors_Of_Perception
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:10pm

      Can you prove to me that there is a hell?

      Report Post » The_Doors_Of_Perception  
    • SLOWBIDEN
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:16pm

      Can you prove to me that there is not a Hell?

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    • The_Doors_Of_Perception
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:34pm

      @slowbiden

      Of course not that is the point, but I‘m not telling people they will go there if they don’t believe a certain thing. I’m certainly open to the fact of there being a hell. I‘m open to the fact that there are a lot things that I don’t know about…i’m waiting for the evidence.

      I cant prove that there are no unicorns either…or fairies…or trolls…or space aliens. Again, I’m waiting for proof. So until i can prove the existence of these things and their motives, I’m not going to tell myself or other people that they will be tortured for eternity by them.

      Report Post » The_Doors_Of_Perception  
  • carpee
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 2:57pm

    i don’t understand how people can say they are christian and then not believe Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven…

    He said it himself.

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  • ChiefGeorge
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 2:54pm

    One more addition to the Kingdom! God Bless him and his family.

    Report Post » ChiefGeorge  
    • ed_mann
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:33pm

      @ChiefGeorge
      I would question that because of what the man has said.
      John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
      1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
      1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
      1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
      This would go on and on. I will say i hope he is growing in the faith and these beliefs he has of Jesus Christ will be corrected. If not this is the outcome:
      Matthew 7:22-23
      Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

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  • The_Doors_Of_Perception
    Posted on June 29, 2012 at 2:52pm

    Not believing in talking snakes, magic, witches, people living in fish, praying over wine and crackers to make it human flesh and blood, human sacrifice, the earth being 6,000 years old, talking to an invisible being in your head…is just the opposite of child like beliefs.

    And again atheist‘s aren’t certain that there is no god…that is not the point…we just need evidence that there is. Religious people are the one’s that are certain…despite the lack of evidence.

    Report Post » The_Doors_Of_Perception  
    • jcldwl
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:05pm

      You simply choose to ignore the evidence.

      Report Post » jcldwl  
    • The_Doors_Of_Perception
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:13pm

      where is the evidence for talking snakes, witches, people living in fish…all that stuff I mentioned? Can you tell me where that evidence is? I promise I will not ignore it.

      Report Post » The_Doors_Of_Perception  
    • Zac
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:22pm

      The evidence is there. you simply need to be willing to not only see it; but to listen. The Holy Ghost is the evidence. If you pray to know with real intent in all humility, you will learn the truth. The problem is that if you are unwilling to follow any direction received, it will not be given. the greater sin is on the head of those who know the truth and choose not to follow. If one receives the answer and then falls away from the truth he is more guilty then those who refuse to pray.

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    • SLOWBIDEN
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:29pm

      The Big Bang theory ignores the First law of Thermodynamics, which says:
      “matter cannot be created or destroyed”

      Those who believe in the Big Bang theory are also either unaware of, or ignore the “Second Law of Thermodynamics” which says:
      “Everything tends towards disorder”

      So rather than the chaos (big bang) becoming ordered (our universe), just the opposite would be true.. And it is. Our complex universe is wearing down, and becoming more chaotic…

      Paul was aware of this when he wrote his letter to the Hebrews:
      Everything “.. waxes old like a garment” (quoted in both Psalm 102:25-27, and also Hebrews 1:10-12).

      “This verse ”anticipates the famous second law of thermodynamics, or law of entropy, indicating that everything in the physical universe is growing old and wearing out. God created everything in the beginning, winding it up like a great clock, so to speak. Because of sin and the curse, however, it has been running down and “perishing” ever since. Jesus also said: “Heaven and earth shall pass away” (literally, “are passing away”) (Matthew 24:35)” – Waxing Old, like a Garment by Henry Morris, Ph.D.

      Things wear down. Nothing gets better by itself.

      If I told you that thousands of pieces of timber were set in motion by a tornado in a lumberyard and this ultimately resulted in the amazing design and complexity of the house you live in, you would think this was absurd to say the very least.

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    • The_Doors_Of_Perception
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:45pm

      @slow biden

      Again that is not proof…I have heard that argument before. It‘s interesting but it doesn’t prove god. There is still a lot to learn and find out. Humans didn’t know how volcanoes worked, what earthquakes were, lightning…you name it, at one point in history if humans didn’t know how it worked it was god(s). Just because we don‘t know how something exactly works isn’t proof of god.

      On your last statement dealing with the tornado and house is an argument I hear a lot about evolution…which usually shows how little the person knows about evolution. So I will err on the side of caution that you are wrong in using that analogy towards the complexity of our universe as a proof for god as well.

      Again I need some hard evidence for god people…the unexplained doesn‘t mean it’s supernatural. Just means we don’t know yet. I look forward to the future though!

      Report Post » The_Doors_Of_Perception  
    • girlnurse
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:52pm

      John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

      It’s called faith. You are richly blessed believers!

      Report Post » girlnurse  
    • jcldwl
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 3:56pm

      @ the_doors

      The Bible. Oh the talking snake was satan in the garden of eden. He can take many forms. Witches are prevalent today. Many people practice witchcraft. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t004.html if the link works you can read on Jonah there. We don‘t pray of wine and crackers to make them flesh it is symbolic of Christ’s flesh and blood. Christians don’t practice human sacrifice nor are we directed to by God, I have never found the age of the earth stated in the bible. Why don’t you look that one up and post it here when you find it in the bible. What makes you think God is invisible? I see evidence of him all around me everyday from the beauty of this earth to the prayers I see answered. He is there he is watching he is waiting for you to turn to him. He will welcome you in if you simply believe and repent of your sins. But hey read this book. The New Evidence by Josh McDowell. It will answer your questions for you and don’t forget to read the Bible.

      Report Post » jcldwl  
    • Conservative-Atheist
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:12pm

      @SLOWBIDEN

      The Big Bang theory ignores the First law of Thermodynamics, which says:
      “matter cannot be created or destroyed”

      How does ‘god created the universe’ work within that law that you are using to dispute the big band?

      Report Post » Conservative-Atheist  
    • Conservative-Atheist
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:14pm

      Big Bang even.

      Report Post » Conservative-Atheist  
    • NJBarFly
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:14pm

      jcldwl – I think we disagree on the what we consider evidence. I don’t consider your personal feelings or a 2000+ year old book as evidence. I would like something a little more quantifiable or measurable. Heck, I would like something that might stand up in a court of law. 2000 year old hearsay is NOT evidence. Your opinion on the beauty of a flower is NOT evidence. Finding gaps in our understanding of the universe is also NOT evidence.

      And as far as prayer goes, we can set up a controlled experiment and I‘m sure you’ll find that the rate of god answering prayers is no different than random chance.

      Report Post » NJBarFly  
    • NJBarFly
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 4:20pm

      GirlNurse hit it right on the head. It’s called faith. If it had evidence, no faith would be needed.

      Report Post » NJBarFly  
    • hi
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 7:36pm

      Doorsofperception
      If you genuinely want to check it out, read the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. He was a Yale Law grad atheist who set out to disprove the Bible. On his journey he becomes Christian. He uses legalese, facts, history, evidence to prove the Bible is true.

      1/3 of the Bible is prophecy. Jesus fullfilled 300+ specific things written about Him 700 years before he was born. For example, “His hands will be pierced.” There was no such thing as crucifixion at the time. Other prophecies such as where he would be born, from the line of David, born to a virgin, they would gamble for his clothes, they would spit on him , they would pierce his side, and so on.

      Even Genesis points to the Virgin Mary 2000 years before she was born. When God cursed the serpant He said “A Woman’s seed will crush you.” no one ever refers to a woman’s seed, only a mans. It means the woman would be a Virgin.

      Report Post » hi  
    • girlnurse
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 3:58am

      HI
      You gotta read “Case for Faith”! Its even better than “Case for Christ”….Sooooo good.
      Its faith and A WHOLE lot more NJBARFLY!
      Trust me…I needed proof….and I did years of research first before I believed…and now I still have some questions but faith is a big part of it and I accept I can’t know everything. Gotta have humility. If you really think you know EVERYTHING about how this world was put together by evolution, you’re lying. You are using more faith to believe that than I am.
      “Without Faith-you cannot please God”…I could write 10 books on that sentence alone.

      When I was a small kid I had to trust my dad because he knew more than me. In a way it was blind trust because I knew nothing of the world yet. I know alot now (through head and heart) …but you don’t get it all till the end. I trust God….He made me….so If I believe that…than He deserves my trust. Open your mind. Im sooo glad I dont carry the weight of this heavy world on my shoulders and He doesn’t expect me to.

      Report Post » girlnurse  
    • alinmatt
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 12:08pm

      @hi and girlnurse. Psalm 22:16 is the “piercing of the hands verse” referred to as prophecy. Read closer and see the annotation in your bible. The actual reading of it says “a lion mauled my hands and feet”. Christians took this verse and applied the word pierce here with absolutely no good reason, other than to back up the crucifixion story. As far as the other messianic prophecies, take a look at how the Rabbis interpret those same verses. One other thing. Could it be possible that the crucifixion of Jesus, being wrote down at least 40 years afterwards, was manipulated to fit the supposed prophecies? I say supposed, because Judaism has a very different interpretation of those same verses.

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    • goodone121
      Posted on June 30, 2012 at 6:01pm

      jcldwl, the “bread and wine” aren’t just SYMBOLIC, they actually BECOME the Body and Blood of our Lord,while retaining the accidents (physically sensible features) of bread and wine- it is a mystery how this happens, but it is a re-presentation of the one sacrifice on Calvary.

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