Photo of Soldiers Posing With Casket & Noose Leads to Air Force Probe
- Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:04pm by
Madeleine Morgenstern
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Air Force officials are investigating after a photo surfaced of a group of airmen posing with another airman pretending to be dead inside an open casket. (Image source: Air Force Times)
Air Force officials said they are launching an investigation into a photo of 15 airmen posing with another airman lying inside an open casket, pretending to be dead with a noose around his neck and chains across his body.
“Da Dumpt, Da Dumpt…Sucks 2 B U!” a caption across the bottom of the photo reads.
It shows the airmen, a mix of men and women, standing beside the metallic casket similar to those used to carry war dead.
The intended purpose of the photograph, dated Aug. 23, is unknown. It appeared on Facebook in early October, the Air Force Times reported, and forwarded to the newspaper earlier this week.
An Air Force spokesman for the Pentagon told the Associated Press the group is from Lackland Air Force Base, Texas, and the photo was taken during a training session at Fort Lee, Va.
Air Force Secretary Michael Donley told the Air Force Times his concern was for the families of fallen troops who could be disturbed by the image.
“We take this matter seriously. [Air Education and Training Command] has initiated a commander directed investigation,” Donley said in a statement. “Such behavior is not consistent with our core values, and it is not representative of the Airmen I know. It saddens me that this may cause additional grief to the families of our fallen warriors.”
An investigation is expected to take one to two weeks. It comes less than a month after reports that the Air Force mishandled the remains of nearly 300 war dead at a mortuary at Dover, Del.
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Comments (295)
RavenRet2000
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:12pm26 years of Fighter Squadrons & Wing Ops later … I see the “dark humor” of troops who have (or certainly may in future) face mortal combat is still alive and well. Apparently so is the corporate trend towards Knee-Jerk, Total BS, Political Correctness that now pervades the services and leads one to think this is anything more than a prank (tasteless as it may be).
Report Post »A “commander directed investigation” at the unit level IS in order to sort out the proper context and real reasons these troops felt compelled to make such a “statement” and just who exactly they aimed it at in the first place. If some clear violation of the UCMJ is found – punish the offender(s) appropriately. If not, chalk it up to the sometimes stupid things people will do under stress when the group-think takes the place of better judgment.
SpankDaMonkey
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:22pm.
Report Post »Now if the dead guy had been black and looked like Obama with a noose around his neck we might have something………..
Cptnjarhead
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 3:04pmim sure there is an inside joke to this picture.
Report Post »The pentagon should be spending resources on things of real importance.
Clive
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 3:13pmi don’t really see what the big deal is… i guess they were sort of horsing around and wasting time… other than that… who cares?
Report Post »TH30PH1LUS
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 3:31pmProbably just a fun inside joke.
Report Post »Understudy
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 3:35pmActually Article 134 of the UCMJ pretty much covers just about anything the military might deem unbecoming of its military members.
Report Post »It states “Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.”
jespasinthru
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 3:41pmWhat’s wrong with a little gallows humor (pun intended) anyway? Warriors have very strong intimations of mortality. They do that sort of thing all the time. Been doing it for thousands of years. Those soft, deskbound Pentagon lackeys who have never seen combat need to shut up and go away.
Report Post »Lawrence7
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:04pmThis may be a stupid prank, but it reflects poorly on the military as a whole. Very inappropriate from a group of erstwile professional war-fighters. Funny? yeah, in a dark way. Appropriate in the public view? No.
Report Post »teamarcheson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:10pmAre These Gay Or Atheist Airmen?
What do American’s expect from their soldiers when they allow them to be used as gun fodder, abused and force them to take part in surrenders. The Democrats were bragging that they had succeeded in stopping the surge and cutting the military budget. I am not surprised at all and I wonder why this is news worthy.
Report Post »Bill in Texas
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:26pmActually looks like some kind of anti drunk driving campaign or something like that. Any how it’s a non story. Please, stop the PC BS.
Report Post »ChiefGeorge
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:30pmOh boy….whats that sound? Its the sound of boots filled with sensitivity trainers raining down on our commands all over the US. He’s concerned about what? USAF values? Thats how they chain them and us down. You have to act and speak a certain way, don’t color outside the lines now. A certain Navy Capt of the USS Enterprise found that out in short order when he was relieved of his command just days before it deployed because of sensitive matters going on inside his ship. Troops do silly things mostly out of shear boredom and yes lines get crossed but where is the victim here? One could the USAF reputation but even that should not be tarnished because of one picture where no nudity or other illegal activities are present.
Report Post »Ruler4You
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:38pmThe things military personnel do to entertain themselves can get fairly nutty.
I was assigned to a FBM Submarine for my 9 years in the Navy. I made 16 FBM patrols. Boring doesn’t begin to describe the over 4 1/2 years I spent under water.
Half way through patrol we’d celebrate “Hump night”. New members of the crew, 1 from each division, would dress up like women for a ‘beauty’ contest. I’ve still got photos of that, too.
Then there is the traditional Navy celebrations of Shell Back, Golden Shell back, Blue Nose and others. These can get pretty, well, wild.
We invented others, too. Like UMA (Ugliest M F Afloat) where the crew votes for the ugliest guy on board and he is given an award certificate.
Of course, we had more ‘normal’ (yea, right) entertainment as well. Guys would bring instruments and put on a mini concert.
The point is that the stress these guys are under some times needs to be vented. This seems like a fairly harmless release or distraction, to me.
Report Post »tradexpertbuysell
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:46pmFFD. I understand the humor having once served. Everyone else should mind their own business. Why this is front news stuff is beyond me!
Report Post »mdbd
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:54pmI totally agree with you they were just being silly! I think it is much better than the sadness some of them are experiencing. I was not upset
Report Post »rs9
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:59pmWe must cut the balls off of our warriors there might be a gay soldier near by that would be offended by real man humor
Report Post »rogue operator
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 5:04pmMore left-wing, BS, demoralization tactics. This is only newsworthy if the goal is to make the military look bad. This kind of thing has always gone on, has always been under wraps, but now, magically, it is coming out under the Obama admin. Wonder why.
Report Post »janedough1
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 5:14pmI agree. For pity’s sake, these guys are facing death daily, and they all know that any of them might be occupying that casket for real tomorrow. Do you think maybe we could let them handle their mortality with a little humor without overreacting? Do you think that maybe command could remember back to being young soldiers themselves? Back off of them.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 5:49pmWhat do they expect from a military that has a government which is in part helping to cause PTSD.
Report Post »robert
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 5:59pmJust one more example of a military turned into a weird social engineering experiment.
Allowing homosexuals to flaunt their perversions is just another aspect illustrating deterioration.
Putting unqualified people in high tech slots is another, and one that might well be the cause of America suffering a great defeat on the battlefield in the near future.
Report Post »Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 6:16pmLooks like it may have been a bachelor party.
Report Post »Thatsitivehadenough
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 6:16pmThis is ridiculous. SO WHAT! Someones feelings may be HURT by seeing this photo? Are they nutz? Are they DUMMIES? We need a new book:
“WASTING TAXPAYERS MONEY INVESTIGATING THIS FOR IDIOTS”
Report Post »A Extremist
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 6:20pmNothing to see here, move along. GI’s messing around. Leave them alone.
Report Post »mils
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 6:50pmI don’t understand the statment they are trying to make..
Report Post »lotta gangs in the military..?
truth-seeker2020
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 7:12pmThe GOVERNMENT is ready to investigate anything that has nothing to do with their own corruption.
Report Post »Absalom
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 7:33pmI agree Ravenret2000. This is probably a class picture, ergo the they were training in VA. It is common for classes to try to break up the monotony. Leadership is going to knee-jerk and command will treat these Airmen like criminals. Not a single commander or higher-up will have the nads to call this a non-story because it has gone viral now and the PC crowd has gotten ahold of it.
Abzz
Report Post »YoungBloodNews
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 7:50pmSilly pawns…
Sincerely,
H. Kissinger
Report Post »Mesaba67
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 8:13pmThank you. What you say is 100% correct.
Report Post »ConstLaw
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 8:56pm@ ravenret2000 My wife, a retired Chief Master Sergeant with 28 years of service, and I are disgusted by the conduct of the airmen and NCOs in this picture. She has been stationed in San Antonio, TX. at Lackland AFB (where this picture was taken). This picture was not taken by some airmen during a field training exercise or while in a combact zone as part of some type of “dark humor.” Lackland AFB is a training base and these young airmen were attending their tech school (after basic training) when this picture was taken. These airmen have been in the Air Force less than 6 months and are still in training, to include learning the customs, traditions and discipline of military service. They are at their tech school to learn how to do their job, which includes the respectful handling of our military heroes that have given their lives for our freedoms. If they act in this manner as young airmen still in training, then the NCOs are failing to instill good order and discipline in these airmen. At the minimum, the NCOs in this picture should receive Article 15s.
Report Post »cgnick
Posted on December 16, 2011 at 12:06amThis definetly is nothing more than a large group of young folks that live and work together and are blowing off some steam. Rather mild in my opinion.
Report Post »utahccr
Posted on December 16, 2011 at 1:21amSorry, I don’t share the opinion of those who claim “dark humor” or “inside jokes” excuse these actions. Statistics vary on other websites regarding each branch’s share of the total KIA, but a safe estimate of the Airforce’s share is around 1%. This isn‘t to say the Airforce isn’t vital to the war effort, they are.
But do they really face the imminent threat of death so many of you are invoking, that gives them the right to joke around like this? Why don’t we see the service-members who REALLY see the up close and personal action (which doesn’t involve watching airplanes in Texas) joking around like this?
Indefensible, if you ask me. Don’t kick them out of the service, but they should get knocked for being stupid, and for failing to show respect towards the guys and gals who do the military jobs that make them much more likely to end up in a casket.
Report Post »Vapor Trail
Posted on December 16, 2011 at 6:12amIt’s a statement to the military. It’s sucks to be you when you get sent to an unneeded war blown up by a bomb and then your cremated ashes are tossed into the dump.
Report Post »http://www.theblaze.com/stories/disturbing-report-us-air-force-dumped-ashes-of-at-least-274-service-members-into-virginia-landfill/
gofigureinternational
Posted on December 16, 2011 at 9:58am*Rogue Operator* is absolutely correct. This is a bit similar to wondering why our top technology is suddenly being captured “intact”, when it could have been destroyed when a threat occurs. It’s giving countries like China and Iran technology that is advancing their militaries DECADES, much like Clinton selling China 600 super-computers that the Pentagon vetoed. If you take the news of and policies of the last 12-18 months especially, what have we seen? Well Bestiality and Sodomy is now O.K. in our military, our soldiers rape, murder, and torture innocently, including SEALS, which are the most ethical warriors on the planet, they mock dead soldiers, all confidential information from the Osama raid being released immediately-instantly rendering useful Intel virtually irrelevant, and we give several of our allies nuclear secrets to Russia in an effort to appease to only name a few. All this is profoundly weakening the U.S., including a propaganda effort meant to discredit the views of the United States among the people of various nations around the world. When the excrement hits the fan, who exactly will stand with the U.S.? We have a multitude of politicians selling out the U.S. at a blinding speed!
Report Post »TinaFrey
Posted on December 17, 2011 at 1:00pmIs this journalism? Posting this without taking the 30 seconds to investigate the meaning behind it is irresponsible, sensationalistic, and actually parasitic. This is a training/safety photo. The floor of the C130 can be covered with rollers and every pallet Ive moved on C-130s or C-17s has made a the dumpt sound. If a heavy pallets rolls into you, it could crush you. Its safety and humor. Crossed arms means “Stop.” Has nothing to do with casualties of war.
The fact that worries me and actually makes my heart bleed is that the young service men and women in this training photo have received negative publicity so that you can have a controversial “news story”. I hope you have enjoyed your 5 minutes of fame.
Let me say this as clearly as possible: if any of these young men or women in this training photo harms themself or gets harmed as a result of this story, the next headline will read “Irresponsible Journalism Led to Suicide of Airman in Training Photo”.
And shame on the self righteous jackass that released the photo with total disregard for their shipmates. There are more appropriate ways to deal with things you disagree with. Now you have service members exposed to danger due to the release of a half-ass media story which was clearly done for shock value. This is a training/safety photo and nothing more!
Report Post »TinaFrey
Posted on December 17, 2011 at 1:02pmIs this journalism? Posting this without taking the 30 seconds to investigate the meaning behind it is irresponsible, sensationalistic, and actually parasitic. This is a training/safety photo. The floor of the C130 can be covered with rollers and every pallet Ive moved on C-130s or C-17s has made a the dumpt sound. If a heavy pallets rolls into you, it could crush you. Its safety and humor. Crossed arms means “Stop.” Has nothing to do with casualties of war.
The fact that worries me and actually makes my heart bleed is that the young service men and women in this training photo have received negative publicity so that you can have a controversial “news story”. I hope you have enjoyed your 5 minutes of fame.
Let me say this as clearly as possible: if any of these young men or women in this training photo harms themself or gets harmed as a result of this story, the next headline will read “Irresponsible Journalism Led to Suicide of Airman in Training Photo”.
Report Post »leftmyheartinkandahar
Posted on January 8, 2012 at 12:50amExcept for the fact that, as Airmen, none of them are likely to ever step one ******* foot outside the wire. Support personnel should learn their place.
Report Post »Manatajo
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:03pmOoooh an investigation. After 31 years of active and civil service to the USAF I have yet to see a policy where being stupid, having no common sense or sense of humer were illegal. If they were, we’d all be in jail. I don’t get the context of the pic…so I can‘t say if I’m amused or offended. Let it go .
Report Post »zorro
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:13pmI’m trying to figure out the purpose as well. At first glance, it just looks stupid.
Report Post »RavenRet2000
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:17pmHey MANATAJO, Looks like the “old heads” are in agreement here! Cheers, :-)~
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:18pmI met a girl in Mexico once who had an amazing sense of humer.
:)
Report Post »babylonvi
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:42pmLooks like they have figured out our policies in Iraq and Afghanistan are futile so they and their comrades are being sent over to be killed and maimed for nothing(ok, maybe to keep the opium trade flowing) and they were merely expressing their point. A point that can not, at this point in time, be disputed.
Report Post »Longpond
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:36pmI think these soldiers should be commended for their display of ethnic diversity and apparent inclusion of both genders. We can imagine that perhaps some of them are gay as well, perhaps a transsexual in their midst, but I digress.
One big happy multi-skin shaded, multi-gender little get together.
I’m not sure what evil we are supposed to read into this image. I believe it sucks to be dead as well.
But perhaps the “sucks 2 B U” reference is meant for the recipiant of the image, sucks not to be enjoying all this Air Force fun.
Report Post »sissykatz
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:48pmWell I fail to see anything that would require an INVESTIGATION.
Report Post »I am not offended and I don’t believe the families would be either.
This would have been the “Friends” of their loved one. If it was the
Taliban that was doing this with an American soldier it would be
different. I must say I don’t understand WHAT it is supposed to
really represent, but although it may not be in really good taste
I see nothing to investigate and probably cause each soldier to
lose rank or whatever punishment the civilians would decide.
I thank them for defending me and my family and do not begrudge
them some shinanigans. Unless this means something other than
I see.
discus02
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:19pmDoesn’t the Air Force have anything else to do. What a waste of taxpayer money!
Report Post »navydoc2008
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:34pmThis was most likely on their own time after a training evolution. What waste of time was it? Do you really want to control military members 24 hours a day? Best you pick a smaller horse before you fall off the one you’re on.
Report Post »SC_DTOM
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:56pmA waste of taxpayer money? You REALLY need to step away from the crack pipe before posting next time..
Regards,
Report Post »USAF Vet
Roscoe
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:19pmYou poor thing. Do you not know they get paid the same pittance whether they are on duty for a 8 hour shift or all night long?
That’s what you got out of the pic?
Report Post »Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 6:41pm22 years retired AF. This is the same old thing we have been doing for years, it’s called having fun. You work long hours, under a lot of stress, and doing things like this builds morale and team morale. But to have someone come in and “Investigate” and hand out punishment for something that doesn’t hurt anyone, does exactly the opposite.
When I was on honor guard, we used the practice coffin for a halloween party, but that never took away from the reverance and respect we paid when buring a fellow soldier. It never took away from our duty or professionalism. When we had to live for months at a time in tents, there were time we pulled pratical jokes to blow off steam.
What I find ironic is a group of airmen stationed over in Afghanistan, that did a mock video of a Lady Gaga song, that went viral, got nothing but praise. What is the difference here?
Report Post »navydoc2008
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:07pmFor the love of God people, do we not have more important things to do? Who cares that they took a picture of an Airman pretending to be dead? The “noose” is a strap handle on the side of the truck, infact there are two of them (one one each side). The X they are making is either the sign for aircraft to halt (Uhh they are Air Force right?) or for X’ed out. Again WHO CARES? Why a probe? If they used their own camera on their own time what right is it for anyone to say what kind of picture they can or cant take? Stop being so dang big brotherish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW I was in the Air Force before, and it does not matter what the service we all do stupid things at time for fun. If you don’t like it, you volunteer to put your life on the line for this country!
Report Post »bboatmanable
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:14pmBecause they’re in uniform. And the Uniform Code of Military Justice dictates what we can and can not do while in uniform. Primarly, not doing anything that will bring discredit upon the U.S.A.F.
Report Post »navydoc2008
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:32pmIf you are going to bring up the UCMJ please post your reference of which article and line you are referring to, because I’m a simple minded person and cannot think of the one that specifically covers this one. And please don’t copout, and refer to Conduct Unbecoming.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:34pm@Boatman
You may be utterly shocked at what real troops, in all militaries including ours, do to let off steam. If you‘re faint of heart you may wish to stick to the fantasy world where they’re all valiant stone jawed Men Of Honor who spend their free time rescuing kittens from trees and engaging in games of canasta with fellow soldiers.
As a former soldier I can assure you, the reality of the situation is quite different than spouting regs and “UCMCJ”.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:35pm“UCMJ”
D’oh! :)
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:19pmNavyDoc
Article 134, General Article, UCMJ would be the applicable citation, if a CO chose to pursue it. I think that the most this would warrant is an Article 15, Commanding Officer’s Non-Judicial Punishment. It may not even warrant that since we don’t no intent of photo.
You got to know their CO is going to get: BAD BOY. SLAP HAND TWICE. BAD BOY from his CO who would have gotten the same from his CO. The Secretary of the Air Force who got BAD BOY SLAP HANDS BAD BOY from the Secretary of Defense can report that everyone even remotely involved got BAD BOY SLAP HAND TWICE, BAD BOY.
Report Post »bboatmanable
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:30pm@Doc…I wasn’t referring to a specific UCMJ infraction…..more or less the “entire context” of what it means to follow the UCMJ, Code of Conduct, LOAC, and all other “laws”, as well as common sense that must prevail as military members.
Report Post »@ Ghost…… It might surprise you that I’m 10 years in the Air Force AND a Military Training Instructor (Drill Sergeant for the Air Force) for 2 years. And, I currently TEACH Military Ethics, UCMJ, Code of Conduct, and EVERY OTHER class involving this VERY issue (including HOW to use Social Media and what NOT to post) EVERY WEEK. I have also been deployed multiple times and know MANY other individuals who have (including my brother, as both a Marine and a Soldier). So, I completely undersatnd what blowing off steam is and I understand 100% that this photo was a joke among the class. But, that does not mean it wasn‘t a silly idea that has now placed the entire Air Force in a negative light at a time when we’re already going through cutbacks on multiple levels. It should be internally investigated and handled “in house” if any wrongdoing is found. But, the BIGGEST problem here is that one (or mulitple members) in this photo posted it online like they’re specifically taught not to do.
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:47pm@BBoat
Seems like we’re actually on the same page then. The only mistake I see is it getting out in public. Why people feel the need to live 100% public lives these days is beyond me.
Report Post »bboatmanable
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:55pm@ Ghost….. Yes, it sounds like we’re on the same page. By the way, I hope I wasn’t sounding to harsh in my reply. I’ve read many of your posts and agree with alot of what you say. I’ve had a pretty irritating day at work. You’d be surprised how some of the smartest individuals can do some of the silliest things when they get put under stress here at work. I apologize if I was harsh.
Report Post »navydoc2008
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 3:06pm@BBoat – c’mon seriously when are we going to tell the PC bandits to bugger off? This is a harmless picture that was not intended to be placed up as a news article! It was intended to be funny to those involved in the “PRIVATE” joke. If these were my Airmen and I was told to punish them I would resign my commission – PERIOD! I went through A.F. basic in the eary 90′s and it had gotten pretty soft and PC by then, I can only imagine what it is like now. We need our WAR FIGHTERS to be hardened warriors, not pansy butt pushovers. The only embarrassment this picture should bring is that it is stupid.
@Dismayed – really 134 Clause 2, Conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces? Really? What discredit does this really pose? It is a picture! They are not doing anything illegal, and it is hardly, hardly in bad taste. If you think this is really that bad then you’re part of the problem.
@ everyone – would you rather your WAR FIGHTING machine to be a bunch of PC wimps, or poor mannered non-PC grunts that will kill or give their lives trying to protect you and this Country we love? Huh? Well?
Give them a break, give all of the enlisted a break, leave the PC bull crap to us officers.
Report Post »bboatmanable
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 3:29pm@NavyDoc…. I agree 100% that we’re too PC (you couldn’t even BEGIN to understand how difficult it is to turn a civilian into an Airman in 8 1/2 weeks under our current system). We, as Instructors are placed under MUCH more scrutiny than the Trainees are. However, when you’re ordered to do something….you do it, unless it is an unlawful order. In my opinion the Air Force should simply say we’ll look into it and then move on. This is a slap on the wrist infraction at worst. But, now the media will blow it out of proportion…. and THAT’S where the problem comes in. They’ll paint this into the worst possible scenario they can LONG before any facts are available. We’re guilty until proven innocent in the MSM and those that write the checks in Congress will listen to the MSM before they listen to the truth. That’s the problem. Something as silly as this can affect many things much more important that weren’t even involved initially. And, in today’s PC environment, we as military members, have to keep that in perspective. Otherwise, our fellow Airmen, Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines may suffer inadvertantly (lack of funding etc.)
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 3:52pmNavyDoc
You requested a specific reference. I provided it.
It contains the following:
“all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces”
If you read my full response, I thought that Article 15: Commanding Officer’s Non-Judicial Punishment, AT THE MOST, would be most applicable and may not be applicable at all upon learning the intent of the photo.
As a Naval Officer you should have a passing understanding of the UCMJ. I would never argue conduct unbecoming because enlisted personnel are not subject to Article 133.
To further your education on the Uniform Code of Military Justice, I have quoted the entire Article below.
ART. 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN
Report Post »Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:10pmNavyDoc
One more thing. Please read my second paragraph. It reflects my personal view on this. Unfortunately for their CO and them, this has gone viral. Now the whole chain of command will feel like they need to get into the act. As anyone in the service knows this is not a good thing.
If I was ordered to punish someone for a prank, I complete a DF and write “SLAP WRIST TWICE”
I mean what could they do to me, send me to Viet Nam? I was already there. My time in the Army was a long time ago.
I am about to climb off my high horse. My grandfather fought in the Spanish American War and WWI. My father fought in WWII, Korea and Viet Nam. I was in Viet Nam. My son is coming home Saturday from his 3rd deployment to Iraq.
Doc, we are on the same side.
Report Post »navydoc2008
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:22pm@ Dismayed – Thank you for your clarification – It is a shame that this picture has been put in the news. When I was enlisted I probably did worse, and my Marines and Sailors… Well let’s just say are a heck of a lot more hard core than this picture. I find nothing wrong with it. People are quick to pass judgement on our elisted, and I’m tired of it.
Report Post »Pro-Palin
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 8:51pm@navydoc2008
Report Post »First off I knew their was something wrong with you when I started reading your comments,your an airforce retread. Second I as a DEVIL DOC USMC CORPSMAN for many many years then went to be an x-ray tech first day first job in school when we got to the lab portion I had to go work in the morgue. I was a HN and yelled at my first class instructors for telling the dead man on the table from a plane crash to take a deep breath and hold it. Unless u have been at the face of death and I have 1st gulf war and other times respect for the dead is paramount. I suggest u look up what a DEVIL DOC is your prob a C school lab rat or something that doesnt get to know what respect for your brothers in arms is like. the airforce has messed up oon body parts missing or placed with the wrong body from Dover and second we heard a report what 2 weeks ago 224 soldiers ashes ended up in a landfill. The freaking Navy can bury UBL at sea no Prob but the Airforce cant do justice by its other brothers. I thank u for your service , but if u want to be a real DOC go to FMF school and get inthe game their u will learn. I am not red headed and or cajun but I live by the creed of what a red headed Cajun corpsman will do for his fellow marines and not take death of any service member lightly.
If only I had acces to your shot record……….
navydoc2008
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 9:57pm@ Pro-Palin – you should probably read all of my posts on this subject before you flap your blow-hole. I am not a Corpsman. I have Corpsmen that work for me because I am a Doctor. For your information I am FMF I have been proudly serving my Marines for almost 3 years now. As a Doctor I don’t have to go directly into firefights unless they find their way to me. So I‘m sorry if I’m no longer a door kicker. When I was a enlisted in the USAF I had 3 deployments to the middle east in support of the Gulf war. I have been serving for almost 20 years in some form or another. So please don’t try to one up on me. If you really believe that Corpsmen wouldn’t do something like this then you are either a bonafide liar or have forgotten what it is like here. As I said before if my Corpsmen had taken a picture like this and I was told that they had to be punished for it, I would be the first to resign my commission. I do not believe this picture is disrespectful, stupid yes, disrespectful no.
Report Post »MEANS2RESIST
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 10:11pmBoots acting like Boots…nothing wrong here, carry on….
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 16, 2011 at 8:58am@NavyDoc & Pro-Palin
I didn’t know that Marines had their USMC corpsmen. I thought they were all Navy and assigned to the Marines. The ones I came across in Viet Nam were Navy. Of course they had bragging rights for being assigned to the Marines. I guess times have changed.
In any case, thank you both for your service.
Report Post »Spartan_Soldier
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:51pmOk, First of all, I am presently in the military and I work and live with the Air Force but I am not in the Air Force. The sign they are making is the halt sign for when you are loading equipment on an air craft and the equipment is moving and you want it ti halt. Its is not a gang sign or a protest of DADT. What this is though is a show of a lack of discilpline and maturity on the part of the NCO’s. The Air Force treats it’s enlisted differently today then the Army or Marines treat them. The Officers are gods and can do no wrong, so they do not trust or train thier enlisted to take charge, so most do not understand about setting the example or leading from the front. Just my 2 cents.
Report Post »MaxineH20Sux
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:01pmThat is odd. My husband was in the Air Force a few years ago and now a veteran and the first thing he said was gang signs. He is now a police officer and they undergo gang unit training also. We shall see what comes of the investigation.
Report Post »bboatmanable
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:12pmThat is your two cents……and it’s wrong as far as how we think towards our officers (not attacking you personally understand). I AM in the Air Force and in the training environment. And, we specifically teach our Airman to be leaders and to lead by example (not just rely on the Officers). This was a group of individuals doing a silly thing. They made a bad choice, and they’ll face the consequences for that choice.
Report Post »Miami
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:12pmIt may not be a gang sign but it is a gang mentality, much like the morons we see on OWS
PS; I am a Marine a Lieutenant First Class retired and this would not fly
Report Post »TelepromoterNChief
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:19pmThat is odd.
Report Post »The “X” sign is what Ultraman Prime Omega does.
VRW Conspirator
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:22pmNot to be rude…but your husband needs to take a step back…remember when he was going through his basic training…and ALL the stupid things recruits do…and RELAX a little…maybe take a few days AWAY from the beat and gang life… This is just a bunch of NCO’s being STUPID on their time off AFTER finishing their training for the day.
Report Post »And before any other Air Force get their panties in a bunch over this…yes as was already stated, I also am of the opinion that the Air Force has the most lacks discipline of any service branch. They have the highest standards to enlist but the least amount of training in Basic and AIT and are the most lacks with uniform code and behavior between enlisted members.
With two sons that went through the Army BIT and AIT…one with oversees duty under his belt…and listening to his comments on the Air Force in country and here at home while training…all the other services bad mouth the Air Force Basic training and overall discipline structure…even the Navy… and they are pretty lacks as well… BTW..every other member of my family that has served has been Navy since WW II…
navydoc2008
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:38pm@ Maxine Yeah they look like a bunch of gang bangers lets crucify them, and we’ll release Barabas back to you.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:55pmMiami
What is a Lieutenant First Class? The last time I checked the USMC and the USA had the same rank normenclature for officers. The title is First Lieutenant. The USMC abbreviation is 1stLT. The Army abbreviation is 1LT.
If you commanded a platoon, company or detachment, you should know that sometimes the CO turns a blind eye to jokes and relies on the NCO’s to deal with it. Sometimes the troops have to let their hair down. I am not talking about permiting anything that violates true good order, discipline and combat effectiveness.
In this instance, the NCO on scene should never permitted it, much less participated, and their commanding officer should have taken immediate action under the UCMJ as soon as he/she first learned of it. Without knowing a single detail beyond this story, I would think this to be an Article 15 offense. I know I would have a “come to Jesus” meeting with each NCO individually and as a group.
Report Post »Defender00
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:21pmMIAMI: When did the rank of Lieutenant First Class get invented? After 24 years in the military, I’ve never heard of this rank. As a “Marine”, you should be familiar with the ranks of “1st Lieutenant” or for the Army , “Sergeant First Class”. But there is no Lieutenant First Class. You remind me of the episode of MASH with the “Corporal Captain”.
Report Post »Miami
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:14pmDefender00
First Lieutenant, my eyes crossed when I saw this display of disrespect for the uniform and the heavy price those have paid. For these clown to use it as a punch line steps no strides way out side the line I almost blew a gasket…
Report Post »Lucy Larue
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 5:17pmSPARTAN SOLDIER,
Merci! You’re dead on!!
Report Post »sgsander
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 6:10pmFirst of all…all of this is so incredibly unnecessary. Soldiers see many unspeakable horrors and deal with the images they see in various ways. I daresay this is one example. Second, I agree with Spartan_Soldier as to the meaning of the sign. Halt is exactly right. If the world did not see so many “PC” related issues out there, the world would be a much calmer place.
Report Post »mmabri
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 7:48pm@ Maxine
Gang signs? Funny your husband would think that. I was in the Air Force also serving as a security specialist (We’re the cops that work the flight line). I worked with flight crews and support personel daily, and this sign means Halt/Stop when loading/unloading equipment.
Report Post »jingoistic.patriot
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:44pmI was stationed at Ft. Lee which trains Logistics personnel from all branches. I’m willing to go out on a limb here and bet that this was a spoof Class Photo from one of the courses taught there and nothing more. The press and the suits in Washington are making this out to be more than it is. Good grief. This is what our military is being reduced to. A Social Experiment complete with Political Correctness and Fuzzy Wuzzy Feel Goodness that in the end is going to reduce moral, and get a whole bunch of our troops killed in the end.
Report Post »dthomps6
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:01pmYeah, man, that’s what I think. It was probably just a spoof.
Report Post »aLinedog
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:02pmI swear I am so dam sick of the hypocrisy. The self-righteous attitude that our military is made up of saints and cherubs. They are men and women, boys and girls in a damned scary and miserable situation.
Report Post »We can show movies like Saw, watch tv shows like Criminal Minds, but God forbid the troops we send into harms way use a little black humour to blow off steam.
“our soldiers aren’t mercenaries” – newsflash Sr., we are/were (relative to E.T.S.) mercenaries on retainer. Serving higher ideals than a paycheck does not make you pure. It simply makes you more trustworthy.
I think the picture is funny as hell, reminds me of Full Metal Jacket; squad has a dead VC and is posing with him.
-line
Bigrod58
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 3:41pmSo VNA you look at the picture and you see “maybe” gang activity. I see that you are a correction officer. Do you see gang activity outside a high school after the closing bell rings? Could be. How about when you see a picture of Santa coming down the chimney? Could be a gang robbing a house. Perhaps you should find other employment. You are a little nucking futs. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to consider another career before you hurt somebody. These are military folks. I guess anyone could be a gang if they gather and hold their arms different. How about everyone with a blue bandana, are they in a gang? You are a hoot!
Report Post »vnachi77
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:43pmAm I the only one who took one look at this photo and instantly thought, a gang? I’m really curious to find out the results of the investigation.
Report Post »ghostsouls
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:57pm@VNACHI77, yes you are the only one that thinks like that. You must have never ever seen real gangs before. Take a quick tour on Google sometimes. Type in “Flash Mob” gangs. They gather, 50-100 of them 99% black, and go into stores and steal what ever they want. They even go into restaurants and take people’s wallets and jewelry. Or they will go to one person’s house to give them a “beat down”. Ever watch The First 48 hours? Now there is some real “gangs” for ya. This is nothing more than military solidarity, and probably the end of a tough set of classes and exercises which they completed. What were they all suppose to get in their little jammies, brew hot cocoa, and sit around the campfire singing kumbaya, while roasting marshmallows hugging their little graduation teddy bears??? Go back to your OWS encampment, they are missing another mindless person.
Report Post »MaxineH20Sux
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:05pmNo you are not the only one. We think that too. Obviously the ones saying this do not think we have gangs in our military- they better do research on that- and they have never been a part of a gang unit before.
Report Post »VRW Conspirator
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:35pmwhile there are now reportedly 15 different distinct gangs in our military…most aren’t in the Air Force.. the Air Force has the strictest guidelines for enlistment…they do not take just ANY average high school graduate…the Army doesn’t even require a diploma…the Marines kinda do but can look the other way for the right candidate…the Air Force looks mainly for those high school students that are college ready!! with technical skills and aspirations…
THIS is not the Classic Blood/Crypt gang member not even MS 13 illegals…about the only gangs that would qualify would be the Chinese Tongs and Japanese Yakuza members – most being highly educated and from affluent families…
Seriously…if you think this is a GANG…you are either looking for reasons to badmouth the military or a paranoid suburbia living white whose only contact with minorities is when you drive to the city to work locking your doors or pass them on the street – or cross to avoid them or in a restaurant as your bus-boy or waiter…
i have spent my adult life in and around the heart of the Bloods and Crypt homes in LA…not more than 6 miles from either…I have know friends of friends that came straight out of Compton, Wilmington, South Central, Venice…they are nice guys even though they did run in a gang..and they were ALL proud of their buddy, my friends, who GOT OUT and made it to college!!
These are just STUPID Airmen being immature…not a GANG!! Get over your paranoia
Report Post »vnachi77
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:45pmGhostsouls, you’re right about the gang thing. As a Correction Officer in a maximum security prison for 14 years, three as a Discipline Investigator, I have zero experience with gangs. I guess I’ll have to defer to your vast experience with gangs, via your viewing of Discovery TV. Rather than the Security Risk Group meetings and weekly updates from our Security Division, years of tripping the blocks, working the SRG Unit and talking with current and former gang members, I should have been watching more TV. Thankyou for setting me straight.
Report Post »vnachi77
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:56pmIt seems like the replys to my post failed to read it throughly. In the first sentence I used the word thought, not is, when talking about gangs. In the second sentence I said I was intrested to find out the results of the investigation. I believe an investigation is a search for the facts. As it appears that Ghostsouls and VRW have devined the facts by simply looking at the picture, we should alert the Air Force to suspend their investigation. Ghost and VRW, if you can fit in into your busy schedules, could you review the Zaputa Film and end this Kennedy question once and for all?
Report Post »luisr
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:25pmIf they are in a gang, that is one of the most racially diverse gangs ever. There are blacks, whites, hispanics, orientals and even an east asian.
Report Post »vnachi77
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:41pmLUISR, I guess we can all thank Obama for tearing down the racial discrimination walls that have for so long plagued our countries gangs. Wonder what he’ll do if elected for another term? Maybe encourage Canadian illegals? Hope and change we can believe in.
Report Post »luisr
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 3:03pmThat’s funny!
Report Post »Bigrod58
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 11:51pmSo VNA you look at the picture and you see “maybe” gang activity. I see that you are a correction officer. Do you see gang activity outside a high school after the closing bell rings? Could be. How about when you see a picture of Santa coming down the chimney? Could be a gang robbing a house. Perhaps you should find other employment. You are nucking futs. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to consider another career before you hurt somebody. These are military folks. I guess anyone could be a gang if they gather and hold their arms different. How about everyone with a blue bandana, are they in a gang? You are a hoot!
Report Post »Lee357
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:39pmThis photo was taken on an Airforce base in Va. These individuals were probably making a satement about the Airforce “dumping” cremated soilders over a landfill in Va. Ergo the phrase, “Da Dumpt?” and if this is true, how dare the Airforce complain about how the fallen soilders family would feel if they saw this pic?! Yea, the pic was in poor taste, but dumping our fallen soilders like trash is unforgivable!
Report Post »AzDebi
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:46pmLeave them alone! I agree with you “Lee357”…Investigation? Really? Give me a break! “straining at gnats and swallowing camels”…PLEASE…
Report Post »JLGunner
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:37pmLeave them alone! Where as I really don’t get it, these young Airmen need to blow off a little steam, so what. I just wish these youngsters would learn that you don’t post things of Facebook. Keep your fun to yourselves.
Report Post »nuttyvet
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:41pmNo. That’s f-ing disrespectful. Those metal caskets are for one use only. The sight of a stainless steel coffin congers up some feelings I’d rather leave back in Iraq and thes REMF are oblivious to this. Then need a good reaming and LOR!
Report Post »MidWestMom
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:25pmDisrespectful is the mildest word to describe this.
No matter what the inspiration for this picture was, it is appalling. It’s the equivalent of spitting onto the body of every soldier who comes home in a coffin.
Three of my kids are in the military. Two have pulled multiple tours in Iraq. One is in Afghanistan right now. Like millions of military family members, every day I live with a knot of terror in my gut that I might have to see one of these coffins up close and personal.
Report Post »6t5gto
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:31pmThe officers in charge of these clowns should be discharged also.
Report Post »MaxineH20Sux
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:55pmThey will probably be demoted and have a nice pay cut for their stupidity. Anyone who works and wears a uniform ( police, firefighters etc ) you better make sure you are acting appropriately when in uniform. You are representing that uniform. If they did this OUT of uniform it would not be an issue.
Report Post »mdbd
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 5:02pmYou got that right buddy one kid wrong punish them all AND if the kids participate in a prank put the PARENTS in jail !
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:31pmA long time ago, I was the “old man” (24 years old) leading my detachment. Junion enlisted and 2LT’s are expected to do stupid stuff and think it is funny. I am surprised that NCO’s are in this picture. They were usually the one’s who took care of the stupid stuff before I had to openly deal with it.
Whatever they meant by their photo, they certainly got attention now.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:31pmIt appears to me that military training has softened since I was in, back then no one would have had time for such horse play!
Report Post »GMP
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:38pmMilitary training is just daycare now-a-days. My DI wasn’t allowed to SWEAR at us. And heaven help him if he laid a hand on any of us. And even in the operational force, there are so many touchy-feely programs geared toward keeping political correctness and “feelings” on the forefront, commonsense takes a backseat…
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:39pmWhen were you in the military, 1693?
There has never been a time in military history where soldiers didn’t goof off.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:27pmYep, it sounds like military basic training has become like everything else, just PC, thanks for the update of military training during the wus years!
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:31pmThe photo appears real to me. How is it fake?
Report Post »BrotherWill
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:31pmHow does the term “Fake” fit into this article.
Report Post »MaxineH20Sux
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:51pmBy fake, I think they mean that the airman inside the casket chained up and has a noose around his neck is not dead, just posing for the pic with his gangbanger thugs.
Report Post »BubbaCoop
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:30pmRe: Headline
Airmen aren’t Soldiers
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:37pmTrue. They’re a college fraternity with uniforms. :)
Report Post »The Sergeant Major
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:17pmWhen it comes to the official recognition of the military the USAF must take a back seat. NEVER let the uniform fool you. Civilians in drag! I once heard a USAF Colonel addressing a large group of maintainers and support types calling them Warriors? So tell me, the guy that sucks the “blue turds” from a C-17 is a Warrior?
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
Report Post »Pittcrew
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:11pm@BUBBA, @Sargent: I suppose you all are veterans so I thank you for your sacrifice. However, I will also say that you are sanctimonious A$$es to assume that your sacrifice is any better than that of another veteran. All the services have a mission and to degrade one service over the other is disgusting. I do not condone what these Airmen did but I can‘t condemn them either since I don’t pretend to know the details behind their action. I do recall though that the Abu Graib situation was Army so stupidity is not a exclusive to any one branch.
Report Post »chips1
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:29pmI don’t think they are too happy about following Obama. They realize the enemy terrorist has been put in charge of their orders. I told you before that the American Millitary has already made plans to defend the Constitution from all enemys, foreign AND domestic.
Report Post »6t5gto
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:28pmI would discharge every one of the NCO’s for dereliction of duty.
Report Post »deeberj
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:27pmWhat’s with that cross armed “salute”? I wonder what that means?
Go on facebook and look at everyone’s pictures. So many people post stupid things there.
So people take stupid pictures. Get over it.
Report Post »MaxineH20Sux
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:39pmGang sign. Look it up. It is a sign left arm over right for the westside gang. Gangs are rampent in our military. A friend of my husband saw usa gang tags on houses in Iraq. I do not know why this carp is allowed, but it is.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:41pmIn Nebraska, it means the defensive team of the UNL Huskers.
Report Post »Mikev5
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:44pmThe problem is this is the military they have a code of conduct that is strictly followed to not follow is unthinkable to the men in uniform and their commanders.
Report Post »PeanutButterDemon
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:18pmLet the kids have their fun, it‘s not as if they’re sawing off limbs of dead bodies or anything.
Report Post »TXPilot
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:32pmWhile the photo may not be in good taste, a lot of people forget that our military has huge number of kids in it, and like their civilian counterparts, they will occasionally do immature things.
Report Post »Starisoldat
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:40pmTXPILOT, When they join the military, regardless of which service, they give up their “immaturity”. Because if they don’t someone will get hurt or killed. This display of a total lack of discipline is just one more example of how bad our military has become.
Report Post »TXPilot
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:53pm@STARSISOLDAT…..lol….as a veteran, with sons currently serving, I’m quite familiar with how things work in the military. While you are correct, that the military does it‘s best to instill maturity in it’s members, young kids have and always will be immature sometimes, no matter how much we try to deny it.
As for your comment about how “bad” our military has become, you should really rethink that statement. Despite our traitorous politicians, and a significant group of left-wing types in this country that seek to stack the deck against them constantly, we have the greatest military this world has ever seen, and I am grateful for every single member that serves.
Report Post »nick7
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:16pmGang language ?
Report Post »O.I.F_03FourtyOne
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:15pmDa dumpt, da dumpt… sucks to be you, here is your M16A4 and flak jacket, the Marines need a few more bodies for foot patrol in Afghanistan. AF POG’s with no shame…..
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:48pmSounds like a dozen Airman are going to be getting orders after they recieve Article 15 entries into their record jackets huh?
Report Post »O.I.F_03FourtyOne
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:59pmIf only i were in charge, CEMERIUS
Report Post »ChinookMEDIC
Posted on January 31, 2012 at 10:28amSounds like a DISGRUNTLED marine who thinks hes a badass. Air force are known for their medics. When I was hit by shrapnel from an ied on my 2nd tour in Iraq.. who did I wake up to, the AIR FORCE. They saved my life and took care of me until I was sent to san antonio. You think youre a badass…bronze and no brains…typical…
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:13pmAhhhh looks like the defense cuts will start with a dozen airman’s paychecks!! Good thing they are mixed sexes and races.
Report Post »lobo2525
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:13pmLooks like a stupid joke to me… sure looks like there just making a joke of there base, People need to relax , there seems to be zero common sense since I have been back to the States, nobody talks…every thing has to have an “investigation”
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:22pmExactly. You can’t do anything these days without half the nation getting its collective panties in a wad and “investigating”.
“Air Force Secretary Michael Donley told the Air Force Times his concern was for the families of fallen troops who could be disturbed by the image.”
Take a chill pill Donley, and get a grip.
Report Post »kentuckypatriot
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:27pmI beg to differ. If one of your family members lost their life in the war, wouldn’t you be outraged? I know I would. Look, a prank is a prank, however, IMO this is way different.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:41pmRight, so we should all spend our time filtering every single action we take lest somebody be offended.
Chill pill, one for you too. Stop trying to control how other people peacefully deal with the realities of life.
Report Post »pukhed
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:44pmAs a family member who has visited Dover AFB for the purpose of receiving the body of a loved one, I can assure you this image is VERY disturbing. I can only hope to someday run into one of these morons in person so that I can personally un-wad my panties. Sorry, I don’t take chill pills.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:57pm*eye roll*
Yeah, ok, we all live to never offend.
I liked this country a lot more before PC crap was introduced. Sure, it was plenty offensive, but by golly you were free to speak as you wanted without worrying about poor offended souls all the time. That and you could smoke in public, bars served whiskey and beer and not a cocophany of sweet sugary mixed drinks, mom stayed home with the kids and a weekend out with the guys usually consisted of going out to shoot something or pull something from a body of water.
Freedom can be offensive sometimes, there is no right to not be offended. What a nation of limp wristed, caved in chest wimps we’ve become.
Report Post »Welcome Black Carter
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:23pm“Stop trying to control how other people peacefully deal with the realities of life.”
Perfect summary.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:42pm@Pukhed
I’ll let you retire to your world of morally pure Soldiers of Righteousness then, sir. Those of us who served in uniform know the reality of what goes on, contrary to the tender thoughts of those outside the service.
You’d be shocked at some of the photos I have from WW2 and our Glorious Uniformed Defenders Of The Homeland ™ doing things that would put you totally off your rocker for weeks. Or Vietnam. Or even the Civil War (yep, even then). I’m betting that even your fallen soldiers, goofed off in ways that would shock you if you knew. The military can be a tough life, and people blow off steam. Deal with it.
The only mistake I see here is that somehow somebody put the photo in the public realm. While normally I’d say “who cares”, we do in fact live in a Perpetually Offended culture now which also, for reasons unknown, lionizes any person in uniform as some kind of morally pure beatified saint. Strange world.
Report Post »pukhed
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:19pm“Soldiers of Righteousness?“ ”Tender thoughts?“ ”Deal with it?” Oh, I’ve dealt with it. You seem to keep pushing the notion that because I find the picture repulsive and completely distasteful that I am somehow naive as to what our uniformed men and women are capable of. You could not be further from the truth. Tough life? Those in the picture? Yeah right. How close to an M4A1 have they ever been? Even if it was, that’s a poor excuse for disrespect for the fallen. I assure you I am not “perpetually offended.” But I am starting to find your condescension mildly annoying. You accuse me of “lionizing any person in uniform as some kind of morally pure beatified saint.” I called ‘em punks, you’re the one defending them.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:38pmWell, it‘s clear you didn’t understand the content or context of my comments, so I don’t see a point of laboring to address them in other words. And I doubt you know where any of those people have or haven’t been. Many times, folks switch MOS’s in the military. Strange but true. And, well, lionizing somebody is making them larger than life, putting them in the status of some sort of morally pure demigod. In fact, I’m doing the opposite of lionization, I’m simply pointing out the reality of the matter, as a former soldier myself. Soldiers often mock death, you know, given as their entire profession is to make death occur.
Anywho, your offense is noted, and filed in the appropriate folder. End of the day, soldiers (and even airmen) will continue to do silly or even offensive things to blow off steam. I’ll forward your concerns on to them should I encounter any such displays, using the highest acme of technology and diligence. No need to thank me, it’s part of my complimentary services to the armed forces of these united States of America.
Report Post »navydoc2008
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 4:11pm@PUKHED – I see that you are mildly annoyed at GHOST’s condescension, so I will give you some of mine. I am sorry for your loss. However, if you think that every time a uniformed military member takes a picture of a coffin in a “disrespectful” way that it in any way implies that they are disrespecting our fallen heroes then you are seriously disturbed. I can tell you right now that if you were to drop off a coffin many if not most of my corpsmen would jump in and pretend to be dead, and I wouldn’t say a word to them for it. You have no idea what this picture was meant to represent, and your lack of tolerance shows a great disrespect for these Airmen and for our Bill of Rights – remember innocent until proven guilty? You should be ashamed of yourself for jumping to conclusions. There are many other probable reasons that should be considered first – yes first, our military deserves the benefit of the doubt!
Report Post »YepImaConservative
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 6:15pmPolitics aside, I have to agree with GHOST and NAVYDOC. I could tell some stories but the tender-hearted, faint-hearted and PC in the audience would lose their cookies. Non-story here.
Report Post »pukhed
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 7:23pmI understand your content and context perfectly. I am well aware of the definition of lionizing, and it has nothing to do with “morally pure demigods.” But it does have to do with treating one with great importance. Kinda like you treating yourself with great importance simply because you claim you wore a uniform, and know better than anyone else what is appropriate behavior and what is not. For the record I had no problem with things like the Abu Ghraib photos, other than the weird sexual overtones. I understand what young people under stress are capable of.
Report Post »And for navydoc, I have no idea what this picture was supposed to represent. But neither do you. I might have felt differently about it had it not been AF….the ones who transport the fallen. I never said anything about innocence, guilt, investigations, or punishment. I simply said I didn’t like it. The corpsmen I know would not do what you suggest yours would do. And by the way, innocence until proven guilty only applies to court, not to me. And it’s still a punk-a$$ picture.
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 16, 2011 at 9:40amWell guy, if all you wanted to say was “I didn’t like it”, that’s perfectly fine. Belaboring the point and bringing up dead relatives/friends/etc. seems to be more than “I don’t like it“ and suggests more along the lines of ”because it really hurts my feelings and people shouldnt’ engage in that kind of thing”.
If you wonder about my “condescension”, perhaps taking a kinder tact in the future will get you kinder treatment. The ad hominem on this site is thick to the point of absurd, and I am a bit weary of being constantly snarled at by people who engage far more deeply in “feelings” than in rational thought.
Report Post »randy
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:10pmI would assume it is geared towards our governments rules of engagement towards the enemy policies.
Report Post »If they would let our soldiers fight a war to win, we would see far fewer soldiers coming home in boxes!
cemerius
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:14pmMaybe a protest of Don‘t Ask Don’t Tell (DADT)?
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:16pmOn the money.
Report Post »lobo2525
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:30pmI have seen personnelly our current rules of engagement , they are modeled after the british in northern Ireland. You cant not shot unlast being fired at, You can not return fire unless you can positively identify there are no civilians in harms way….which is impossible, If enemy plants IEDs and runs you can not engage. The enemy knows these rules and uses them against us, The only rules we are not following is “WIN”
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:46pmMy only redeeming memory of times in Somolia were the loose ROE. If they pointed a gun in my or my Marines direction they could be killed……When we lost the Marine Barracks in Lebanon the “gate guards” weren’t even allowed to have ammo!!! The Rules of Engagement are policies/directives handed down by the most liberal bastion outside of the ACLU, they call themselves the US State Department!!!
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