Family of Marine Gunned Down by SWAT Team Still Searches for Answers and Justice
- Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:02am by
Christopher Santarelli
- Print »
- Email »
(The Blaze/AP) After video of SWAT team officers firing over 70 times at a 26-year-old former Marine in his home went viral, there was a public outcry for explanations and justice for Jose Guerena Ortiz, the former serviceman gunned down in the alleged drug raid. Six months later, the Guerena family remains frustrated and starved for answers as no arrests have been made.
Jose Guerena Ortiz was sleeping after an exhausting 12-hour night shift at a copper mine during an ordinary morning in a middle-class Tucson neighborhood on May 5, when an armored vehicle pulled into the family’s driveway and men wearing heavy body armor and helmets climbed out, weapons ready.
They were a sheriff’s department SWAT team who had come to execute a search warrant. Vanessa Guerena insisted she had no idea police were outside her home when she heard a “boom” and saw a dark-suited man pass by a window. She shook her husband awake and told him someone was firing a gun outside.
A U.S. Marine veteran of the Iraq war, he was only trying to defend his family, she said, when he grabbed his own gun — an AR-15 assault rifle.
What happened next was captured on video after a member of the SWAT team activated a helmet-mounted camera.
The officers — four of whom carried .40-caliber handguns while another had an AR-15 — moved to the door, briefly sounding a siren, then shouting “Police!” in English and Spanish. With a thrust of a battering ram, they broke the door open. Eight seconds passed before they opened fire into the house.
And 10 seconds later, Guerena lay dying in a hallway 20-feet from the front door. The SWAT team fired 71 rounds, riddling his body 22 times, while his wife and child cowered in a closet.
“Hurry up, he’s bleeding,” Vanessa Guerena pleaded with a 911 operator. “I don’t know why they shoot him. They open the door and shoot him. Please get me an ambulance.”
When she emerged from the home minutes later, officers hustled her to a police van, even as she cried that her husband was unresponsive and bleeding, and that her young son was still inside. She begged them to get Joel out of the house before he saw his father in a puddle of blood on the floor.
But soon afterward, the boy appeared in the front doorway in Spider-Man pajamas, crying.
The Pima County Sheriff’s Department said its SWAT team was at the home because Guerena was suspected of being involved in a drug-trafficking organization and that the shooting happened because he arrived at the door brandishing a gun. The county prosecutor’s office says the shooting was justified.
Six months later, investigators have still made no arrests in the case that led to the raid. Outraged friends, co-workers and fellow Marines have called the shooting an injustice and demanded further investigation. A family lawyer has filed a multimillion-dollar lawsuit against the sheriff’s office. And amid the outcry in online forums and social media outlets, the sheriff’s 54-second video, which found its way to YouTube, has drawn more than 275,000 views.
The many questions swirling around the incident all boil down to one, repeated by Vanessa Guerena, as quoted in the 1,000-page police report on the case:
“Why, why, why was he killed?”
Outside the family’s stucco home, a giant framed photo of Guerena in his Marine uniform sat placed in the front bay window, American flags waved in the yard and signs condemning his death were taped to the garage door.
The 27-year-old Guerena had completed two tours in Iraq, and a former superior there was among those who couldn’t make sense of his death.
Leo Verdugo said Guerena stood out among other Marines for his maturity and sense of responsibility. Verdugo, who retired as a master sergeant last year after 25 years in the Marines, placed Guerena in charge of an important helicopter refueling mission in the remote west desert of Iraq.
“He had a lot of integrity and he was a man of his word,” Verdugo said.
Verdugo, who also lives in Tucson, said Guerena came to him for advice in 2006 about whether to retire from the Marines and apply to the Border Patrol.
When Verdugo ran into Guerena and his wife at a Motor Vehicle Department office about a month before Guerena was killed, Verdugo said that Guerena told him that the Border Patrol had turned him down because of problems with his vision and that he had instead taken a mining job.
Those who worked with Guerena at ASARCO’S Mission Mine said the man they knew would never be a part of drug smuggling.
“I don’t care what the cops say. I don’t believe for one moment Jose was involved in anything illegal,” said Sharon Hargrave, a co-worker, adding through tears: “They were judge, jury and executioner, and there was no excuse.”
Guerena worked as a “helper” at two crushers in the mine, shoveling piles of rocks that fall from conveyor belts and wheel-barrowing heavy debris. “No one in their right mind” would choose this work, which paid about $41,000 a year, if they were bringing in drug smuggling money, Hargrave said.
“He was a hell of a worker,” she said. “He’s got good judgment and I could trust him.”
She said Guerena talked constantly about his wife and two sons, Joel and Jose Jr., 5, who’d gone to school the morning of the shooting. “I know he was definitely in love with his wife and in love with his kids,” she said.
Kevin Stephens, a chief steward at Mission mine and head of the miners’ union there, said bluntly: “Personally, I think he was murdered, and that is the feeling that is out here.”
But the sheriff‘s office said just because Guerena was a Marine and worked at a mine doesn’t mean he couldn’t be involved in drug trafficking.
“We know from our experiences that good people turn their lives around and do bad things, and this guy was bad irrespective of his honorable discharge as a Marine,” said sheriff’s chief of investigations Rick Kastigar.
He said Guerena was suspected of involvement in a drug operation that specialized in ripping off other smugglers. One tip held that Guerena was “the muscle” of the organization, or in Kastigar’s words, “the individual that was directed to exact revenge.”
An affidavit supporting the search warrant that precipitated the raid describes the department’s suspicions about Guerena in a drug investigation that appeared more focused on his brother, and his brother’s father-in-law. Guerena’s brother does not have a listed number and other family members have ignored written requests from the AP for comment.
Sheriff’s Capt. Chris Nanos, who heads the criminal investigations division and oversaw the Guerena case, said that high-powered rifles and bulletproof vests that were found in Guerena‘s home after the shooting back up investigators’ belief that Guerena was involved in drug trafficking. A shotgun found in the home was reported stolen in Tucson in 2008.
In the affidavit, sheriff‘s Detective Alex Tisch laid out the case against Guerena’s family. It details two instances of drug seizures, one in April 2009 in which Jose Guerena was found in a home with other people who had just dropped off 1,000 pounds of marijuana at a separate residence, and another in October 2009 in which a man who had met with Guerena’s brother was found with drugs and weapons.
Neither Guerena nor his brother was charged.
The affidavit also cites two traffic stops of Jose Guerena.
The first was on Jan. 28, 2009, when an officer pulled Guerena and two other men over north of Tucson. The officer seized a gun from Guerena, a marijuana pipe from Guerena‘s cousin and marijuana hidden in canisters of lemonade and hot cocoa that were under the feet of Guerena’s friend.
The officer arrested Guerena on charges of weapons misconduct, marijuana possession and possession of drug paraphernalia. But prosecutors filed no charges against him.
The other stop came Sept. 15, 2009, when the sheriff‘s office pulled over a truck leaving the home of Guerena’s brother. Jose Guerena was in the passenger seat and another man was driving. Officers searched the truck and found commercial-sized rolls of plastic wrap that they say are commonly used to package marijuana. No arrests were made.
Tisch wrote in the affidavit that the past arrests of Guerena and members of his family, combined with observations during months of surveillance led detectives to believe that the family was operating a mid-level drug-trafficking organization in the Tucson area.
The investigation is ongoing, the sheriff’s office says.
After the SWAT video circulated, people who didn’t know Guerena traveled from as far as California to march in protest of his shooting, and an Alaska woman began an online petition calling for a federal investigation of the SWAT team. Hundreds of people across the country have written on several Facebook pages dedicated to Guerena with messages that include, “He fought for our country, now we must fight for him.”
The Guereno family’s lawyer, Christopher Scileppi, filed a lawsuit on their behalf seeking damages from the sheriff’s office, the officers involved in the shooting and other officials. The lawsuit didn’t specify how much money the family was seeking, but a notice of claim filed Aug. 9 put the amount at $20 million.
“During this investigation, extremely little evidence, if any, was found to raise even a suspicion that Jose Guerena was involved in any possible drug trafficking ring,” the notice says.
Scileppi said the fact that Guerena had been fired at 71 times and hit 22 times was “grotesque,“ and ”almost a caricature of an overly excited group of poorly trained law enforcement agents.”
Kastigar sharply disputed that, calling the Pima County SWAT team one of the best of its kind in the nation. “We’re not a bunch of country bumpkins in southern Arizona with big bellies and cowboy hats,” he said.
The shooting was justified, he said, because Guerena pointed his AR-15 at the SWAT officers and said, “I’ve got something for you,” before they opened fire.
The five SWAT team members who shot Guerena believed that he had fired his weapon first, he said. Subsequent investigation revealed that the gun‘s safety was on and hadn’t been fired. Ultimately, that is not an issue, Kastigar said.
“What reasonable person comes to the front door and points a rifle at people?” he said. “It takes several milliseconds to flip the switch from safety to fire and take out a couple of SWAT officers. I’m firmly of the opinion that he was attempting to shoot at us.”
The officers laid down “suppressive” fire because one had tripped and fallen and the others thought he’d been shot.
“You point a gun at police, you’re going to get shot,” Kastigar said.
The five officers who shot Guerena declined to speak to the AP through Mike Storie, a police union lawyer who represents them and defends their actions.
“Anytime that they are faced with a serious, imminent and deadly threat, they are entitled and justified to use deadly force,” he said. “And when Guerena came around the corner and lifted an AR-15 and pointed it at them, that provided the justification.”
An independent expert, Chuck Drago, a former longtime SWAT officer for Fort Lauderdale, Fla., police who now does consulting on use of force and other law enforcement issues, said that the shooting itself appeared justified.
“It’s a horrible, horrible tragedy, but if they walked in the door and somebody came at them with an assault rifle, that would be a justifiable response,” said Drago. “It doesn‘t matter whether he’s innocent or not.”
But after examining elements of the search affidavit, Drago questioned whether the sheriff’s office truly had probable cause.
“When you back up and look at why they’re there in the first place and whether the search warrant was proper, my mind starts struggling,” Drago said. “There are a lot of things that don’t make a lot of sense.”
Popular Stories
Does Misstated Marathon Claim Prove Paul Ryan Is Dishonest? (POLL) 688 Comments
‘Jumah at the DNC’ Speaker: ‘Muslims Visited America Prior to Columbus’ & ‘It Was a Muslim’ Who Guided Him to the ‘New World’ 536 Comments
Paper Details Obama Admin’s Alleged Secret Note Sent to Iran: If Israel Attacks, We Won’t Get Involved 459 Comments
Obama: RNC Like Watching ‘Black-and-White TV’ Because Romney ‘Did Not Offer a Single New Idea’ 374 Comments
Roseanne Barr: Most Billionaires ‘Violent Pedophiles’ & ‘Heartless’ Cocaine Addicts 333 Comments
Faith
This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 304 Comments- Pakistani Muslim Cleric Accused of Framing Disabled Christian Girl in Koran-Burning Case Read More
- ‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 316 Comments
Meet the Controversial German Imam Accused of Brutally Beating His Wife & Pushing Sharia Law Read More
‘Self-Proclaimed Messiah’ & Unification Church Leader the Rev. Sun Myung Moon Has Died — Here’s His Life Story Read More
Business
President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 214 Comments- Germany’s Upcoming Court Ruling Will be Huge for the EU Read More
Ford Looks to Beat Toyota for Best-Selling Car in 2012 With This Model 148 Comments
Bernanke & QE3: Here’s What You Need to Know Read More- ‘Extortion’: Why Did the Labor Department ‘Drop the Hammer’ on Oregon Farmers? 301 Comments
Technology
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 304 Comments
‘TaserDrone’: Hackers Weaponize Quadcopter With Actual ‘Shocking’ Technology Read More
Ever Heard of the Wild ‘Burning Man’ Festival in the Middle of the Nev. Desert? Here’s Your Primer Read More
Stanford Develops Technology ‘Better Than Steroids’ for Athlete Recovery Read More
Have You Pretended to Know What ‘the Cloud’ Is? You’re Not Alone Read More
Submitting your tip... please wait!
Comments (149)
Country_of_Arizona
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:52amAfter reading this article I found, at least, two statements in contradiction with each other:
Report Post »1.“What reasonable person comes to the front door and points a rifle at people?”
2.“Guerena came around the corner and lifted an AR-15 and pointed it at them that provided the justification.”
Will the real facts b known? Why wasn’t this all over the NATIONAL news, Gabbie is alive and this Marine and hardworking American is dead. One by cops the other by a crazy; one is white one is brown?
As to the following statement: Kastigar calls the Pima County SWAT team one of the best, really? “We’re not a bunch of country bumpkins in southern Arizona with big bellies and cowboy hats,” he said, really. I would claim that 5 ¿highly-trained?, SWAT firing 71 rounds but only 22 hits at close range (1-6 feet?) need a serious refresher course and we’ve seen the holes (outside the house) from exiting rds, where did they end up?
I have often talked, to anyone who’ll listen, that the militarization of our civilian police force should be of great concern to all Constitutional loving citizens. I read in the NOV 2011 “Tactical Weapons,” an article that talks of the Tulsa, OK, SOT. In a city of 390,000 residents and 720 officers why do they need a .50 cal capable of 1000 yd shot; when they already have Remmie 700s’ 308 for 600 yd shots? When the average incident shot is 70 yds! We all need to know what our LE’s are buying with our tax $$! Attend city council me
Mil-Dot
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 6:36amFirst of all you have to understand the role of “law enforcement” in this country. LE is not to protect you or your rights. It is to protect THE STATE-the politicians and their schemes. In exchange for this protection, the political criminals toss exorbitant salaries and pensions at the cops to buy their alliegence. And it is policy to show ex-military guys that might think that they are tough the door upstairs. Anything to intimidate the public into being afraid of them.
Report Post »Delta D-5-3
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 7:34amQUOTE: “You point a gun at police, you’re going to get shot,” Kastigar said.
And then:
“The officers laid down “suppressive” fire because one had tripped and fallen and the others thought he’d been shot”.
So in other words, DON‘T try to protect yourself or your family if someones breaking into YOUR HOME because if it’s a NO KNOCK POLICE RAID, your dead and possible your family. Even though these highly trained SWAT officers fired FIRST??? Does this not set a precedent for future SWAT home invasions???
Report Post »Ira McBiff
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 8:11ami could not agree with you more,,,just about everybody i know thats read this article,,has said if they were awakend by people with guns out side there window they would have grabbed thier weapon too,,what i cant understand is why they didnt try to make contact before kickin in the door?,,,this is nothin but tactics used in clearing a enemy hut or house here and thats all it is,,,if they would have made contact ,,like a phone call or even verbel contact from outside what possibly could happen?
Report Post »motonutt
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 10:17amMaybe the cops should have just knocked on the door and asked Jose to come outside.
Wouldn’t that have been common sense?
All this over some marijuana…..stupid.
Report Post »ozchambers
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 11:08amSomeone I am close with who used to be a police officer during the 70‘s and early 80’s and then spent nearly 30 years with CIA, mostly in counter-terrorism, including training DELTA, SEALs, Recon, FBI’s HRT and many other international counter-terrorism units spoke with me several months ago about the alarming explosion of SWAT and military style CQB techniques being employed in what were previously considered relatively routine warrant issuances and arrests. In the 70‘s or 80’s this would’ve been 2 cops and a squad car waiting for the suspect to leave for work. Or they would make a call to the house to report that the suspects car had been broken into, and arrest him when he steps outside. Now these cops get the military garb, gear and weaponry and look for ANY excuse to play recon ranger. In the 70‘s and 80’s SWAT was used ONLY for hostage situations and terror situations. PERIOD. The other issue is that law enforcement agencies are hiring lots of combat veterans who have been trained to deal with enemy combatants in a foreign land and are employing those same techniques and attitudes towards American citizens. The Hampton, VA Department of Police was a force he once served on. Now see how their SWAT raids shoot down senior citizens with canes in their own homes…
Report Post »http://articles.dailypress.com/2011-09-06/news/dp-edt-citizensreview-editorial-0904-20110906_1_hampton-police-hampton-cops-shooting
Buck Shane
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 11:20amThis is not the first such atrocity. My question in every one of these cases is, “Why didn’t someone just go to the house and knock on the door?”
Donald Scott – Early on the morning of October 2, 1992, 31 officers from the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department, Drug Enforcement Administration, Border Patrol, National Guard and Park Service broke in his front door and killed him. Five government agencies including the Border Patrol. Scott was the hier to the Scott Paper fortune – they wanted his land.
Randy Weaver – The ATF/FBI sniper blew his wifes face apart while she was holding their infant, shot Weavers friend almost killing him, and shot Weaver. The day before the ATF had killed Weaver’s 13 year old son – shot him in the back while he was running for home – on Weaver’s land. This all happened because Weaver, at the direction a an ATF employee had cut the barrel or a shotgun 1/4 of an inch too short.
David Koresh – The ATF had an agent whom Koresh had invited to live in the church dorm – knowing he was an agent, and he was to have moved in two days after the raid. He was to have unlimited access – why did they need a search warrent and why did they need 40 armed men to serve it?
Report Post »Buck Shane
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 11:34amI have a question. There is a window flanking the front door. If he had wanted to take out the five men atacking his home and family, with his training and experience, he could easily have done it from that window. If he was so dangerous, why didn’t he? And, if he wasn’t, why did the need to go in shooting?
Report Post »By the way, where did all the misses end up – were the neighbors in danger?
Actually, that’s three questions, isn’t it? (not counting this one)
teamarcheson
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:13pmWas This Marine On Obama’s Kill List?
There is more to this story that we will never lean about. Maybe this Marine intended to run for election and had to be eliminated. Millions of Americans last year predicted that Obama would have to resort to murder because he and the Democrats have tried everything else.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:26pmWhen I think of Hussein’s ROE in Afghanistan, this SWAT team’s overreaction against one of ours makes my blood boil. What happened to innocent before proven guilty? I am still seething about the Chinook helicopter downed after the UBL raid. Those SEALs were also killed under highly suspicious circuumstances. This is what happens when a traitor is in charge.
How long, Lord?
Report Post »bjorn-free
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:02pmYou are witnessing the complete make over and militarization of the LEO‘s and they are buying into it and don’t see their own mental evolution of their thinking process….as the evidence continues to become overwhelming of this police state the more sicking portion of all is this is constant boot-licking of Glenn Beck…rather then pushing back and forcing them to be accountable…. presently they are accountable to no one komrade cah-pish…??
Report Post »libertytreecaretaker
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:16amI’ll bet you anything everyone of these cops pratice with targets with a bad guy holding an AR-15 in his hand and as soon as the marine stepped around the hall corner there training of shooting a paper target with an Ar on it kicked in and they went ape crap on the target just like it were a peice of paper.
Report Post »Evilroyslade
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:14amThis shooting is tragic made even sadder and harder to understand since Guerena appears to have been a Father, Husband, Marine, a hard worker, a well thought of co-worker, Family man, and unknown to most a person with a hidden life. However, information came up about him being involved in criminal activity. That info had to be supported by evidence or other reliable sources, then vetted by supervisors, maybe an assistant DA, then the affidavit and the warrant had to to be read, questioned, and scrutinized by a Judge who had to agree, and sign off that there was at least probable cause to issue the search warrant. A process no judge takes lightly because he is putting his own ass on the line. Then just watch the tapes. A textbook operation. Sirens, knock ( more accurately pound and loudly announce, repeatedly), kick door continue announcing.Then Guerena rounds the corner AR 15 in hand and makes bad choices by having the weapon, and pointing it, and further, if he said what SWAT said he did, he made the situation totally untenable and sealed his own fate. As any military combat veteran will tell you most of the time the opening seconds of a firefight are total confusion and chaos and who fired first and where the fire is comming from is almost impossible to tell. Add to that a SWAT guy falls down and there will be a tremendous volume of suppressive fire until the down man is removed from the kill zone. Guerena made a choice to remove any choice from SWAT. It was his call.
Report Post »Fuul Aluuf
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:52amYou must be assuming he knew they were cops… did you read what his wife said? She woke him up and told him that someone was outside and had fired a gun. If he wakes from a deep sleep after a 12 hour shift, not having heard the siren or the cops announcing themselves (which I could even barely understand from the video) and his wife is scared… and you say its a bad choice to have his weapon? He wasnt hired by the border guard because of some sort of vision problem… the cops didnt announce themselves AFTER kicking in the door. You can say he made the situation untenable, but I’d say it was the police in this case… remember, they had pulled him over TWICE with NO violent incident. So why not just wait till he is coming home from work and pull him over again? Kicking down a man’s house should be the very last result, because we all have a right to pick up a weapon in our own house and it can always go bad. Kicking down doors should be reserved for drugs houses full of perps and kidnappings where time is of the essence. A simple stakeout could have determined that he was the only armed man inside, and they could have picked him up on his way home from that 12 hour shift. It sounds like they made the situation untenable, not him.
“Then Guerena rounds the corner AR 15 in hand and makes bad choices by having the weapon, and pointing it, and further, if he said what SWAT said he did, he made the situation totally untenable and sealed his own fate.”
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 5:35am@evilroyslade
Report Post »Do you have inside info?
This story gave no good excuse for the police to engage.
They new the guy was a war vet, This could have been handled ,
with not a drop of blood spilled. There was not one persons life in danger , until the SWAT team went on the Offensive.
If this story is true .We no longer resemble the U.S.
This NATION it is looking more like NAZI GERMANY…!
Your going to defend this action. With a full Family inside the house. with hearsay evidence of a police official that has motive to deceive. Our border Patrol cant defend themselves properly against non Americans. Our soldiers cant defend themselves properly against non a Americans. But one our own citizens .That sleeping with his family ,all citizens. We can do what ever we want,abd a war vet..! Good thing there where no hostages. Just a wife and Child .What’s the difference between, A Illegal alien ,with a gun. A enemy combatant, with a gun . And a war vet Citizen of the United States ,with a gun. We shoot the war vet ..“Because some Vet’s go bad”. And he supposed to be protected by our constitution.
they shot him down like a dog, .. A WAR VET..! This happened on May 5th .What ..Did we have a media blackout..? A Person tries to defend these bastards (cops)and then this kind of crap happens. And then brag about how well trained they are. Good thing police have a union. Oh thats right.
More fuel for the OWS Movement.
Marineraider
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 6:38amThis is over Drugs? This is the only way to pick him up? Why not pick him up at work, drive to the house and do the search? They know this hero is rattled by war and will react different than most. Why not try the path of least resistance and if that does not work they take another step.
In the end the police did not get what they wanted, information. All they got was blood, and that does nobody including Americans any justice.
Report Post »Mil-Dot
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 6:48amThere will always be people like EvilRoy who side with the cops no matter what they do. You people are wasting your energy trying to convince him of anything. He is one of them.
Report Post »BSdetector
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 7:26am@sawbuck
The video clearly shows the cops blaring the siren and yelling “Police, Search Warrant, Open up!” In English and Spanish for a couple solid minutes.
I’m not jumping to any conclusions here about weather this guy was a drug gang “enforcer” or not, but it seems everyone agrees that he was brandishing his weapon at the police.
What should they have done at that point? Assumed he didn’t know they were police and let him shoot them because he thought they were thieves or something?
There’s no possible happy outcome at that point, but I can’t blame the SWAT team for firing on the guy pointing a gun at them. What matters now is weather he is innocent or guilty of the charges.
Report Post »QuallaCherokee
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 7:42amWAS 92 yo Kathryn Johnson of Neal Street Atlanta, Ga DEAD
Report Post »Oh the cops had a “legal” warrant, they dotted the I‘s crossed the T’s
an ADA signed off a Judge signed off, and this 92 yo woman is dead,
Yes the cops busted down her door, they followed procedure yelling “Cops Search Warrant”
This frightened NON COMBAT didn’t have an AR15, or even an AK47 but she did have a .38
She’s dead and the 4 Cops ARE IN JAIL ! why? because 1st they had the wrong address
secondly they LIED on the warrant application. NO SIR I do not automatically trust a badge
and it seems more and more common that only dead victims do, err did.
Buck Shane
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:35pm@ BSdetector
Report Post »Why didn’t they just knock on the door and serve the warrant?
Why didn’t they pick him up when he came home from work?
Why would they invade a house with his wife and child inside?
Why would they invade a house in a neighborhood when they could pick him up at work or stop him on the highway?
How come the information they used to get the warrant is not public?
How come, given the outcome, they are not required to prove the warrant information was all true?
If he wanted to shoot them he had them flanked – why didn’t he?
If he wanted to shoot them, with his training and experience, he would have fired from cover; why didn’t he?
Now, even the Department of Education has a SWAT team.
Buck Shane
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:40pm@ Evilroyslade
Report Post »Our government will reach as far down in society as necessary to do the jobs no person with values will do. These men willingly attacked their own people. They are the lowest of people.
You appear to be one of them.
dirtydog1776
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:00amThe War on Drugs is a joke, except this murder (and I say murder) is no joke. Too much power has been given to drug enforcement officers who believe they are above the law. They live for the rush of adrenaline and the fast paced life style. Guerena, regardless of whether he was innocent or guilty, was denied a fair trial by an immoral and illegal raid.
Report Post »RepubliCorp
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:52amLets say he is as guilty as sin. You know he has a wife,kid and a job. Why not just grab him getting into his car to go to work? A lot less drama and everyone lives. The cops acted stupidly and top to bottom should be fired
Report Post »sasquatch08
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 4:07amNo, they should be tried for manslaughter (at the least).
Think those guys in prison will “get the wrong cell number”?
Report Post »conbones
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:57amthe truth is no man is safe within his home, i say shoot first talk later, you might live.
Report Post »libertytreecaretaker
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:11amIf you don’t shoot first your dead. If you do shoot first and kill a cop you will be sentanced to life or death. Where is the part of the story where we are told about all the illegal drugs they found or illegal firearms? Did the the cops recover anything in the warrent? Is there a journalist still alive that has the balls or ovaries to ask real question? This marine would not have been able to do what he did in two tours in Irac survive! If this marine was completely inocent they would of charged him with atempted murder of a police officer for holding a legal firearm in his house in front of a police officer.
Report Post »libertytreecaretaker
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:46amI think the root of the cover up leeds directly to that jackhole Sheriff Dupnick. The sherrif who was all over the news of Gabby Giffords shooting blaming everyone except the shooter himself.
Report Post »lylejk
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:31amAgreed. This guys such a crooked cop if your really want to call this fat mongrel that. He should be placed in jail, but of course, this no excuse for a human being still walks free. Breaking points about to be reached though. His time is numbered now. :)
Report Post »Mtroom
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:50pmI usually will side with our police force on most, but I really can’t find a reason that they would hit this house as hard as they did…They raided with just a suspicion? They had this Marine guilty before they even approached the house..Headed into this believing he is the guy doing these “drug dealer raids.” I can’t fault the S.W.A.T. team for following orders and doing their jobs (except the lack of marksmanship)…This was a guilty until proven Innocent murder..Someone in this investigation has a lot of explaining to do, even if this Marine is guilty.(which I do not believe he is.) Was a recon team in place? Did they know who was inside at the time the raid was going to happen? Why, in gods name, did they even attempt entry knowing full well the mother and child where in the home?…Did rules of engagement change at some point? Wouldn’t the wife and child be looked at as an unacceptable risk for an invasion of the home?..Thank god they aren’t dead, also …To allow a heavily armed team to kick open doors with just suspicion, is unacceptable..Take the man into custody, than the search warrant…They picked him up twice already without incident…And as for the “pot-belly, cowboy hat” comment…That proves your a hick, idiot, to think that that’s what people are thinking of this execution…..He needs to be fired just for that comment.
Report Post »ZetaRho62
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:45amIt’s easy to point at the SWAT team and say “naughty naughty, bad stupid cop” when you’ve sat in an office or a job where you have the luxury of never having been in a stressful situation outside of getting a reprimand for being late.
I’ve seen plenty of “brave soldiers/marines” go bad when they got out and turn into total criminals and anyone who’s been a vet (like me) can attest to knowing that not all vets are pure and noble.
It’s easy to point fingers at someone else and condemn them when the only facts you know come from the internet.
Did anyone even bother to question the judge who signed the search warrant? Obviously this judge was presented with enough evidence and saw enough probable cause to allow this search warrant. How about when they shouted “POLICE!” he just drop the weapon if he had nothing to hide?
Point a weapon at me jack, I’m not going to ask to see a copy of your DD214, I’m going to shoot to stop you and if that means you die…..well, you die. Your choice.
Report Post »sasquatch08
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:47amI did.
No-knock warrants are BS and shouldn’t be allowed. If they are to be allowed, if the cops get the wrong address, shooting said cops should be allowed.
Report Post »libertytreecaretaker
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:00amI guess your guilty until the cop feels safe smashing your door in murdering you then once he is safe they will figure out if your inocent. What kind of twisted **** is that?
Report Post »ZetaRho62
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:07amSo Squatch, How much time should the cops give the guy who has the guns, drugs, the kiddie porn, etc. time to dispose of it before they knock and the time they enter? 10 seconds, a minute, maybe they should just post a note that says “Tomorrow between 3am and 6am the Police will enter your house, have all your drugs etc. on the table and all of your family members out of the house and please do not shoot at us because we’re the Police”.
And as for pointing out the mistakes the cops make, I’m sure they appreciate righteous people like you, who are PERFECT IN EVERY WAY, pointing out their mistakes to other righteous people who have also never made a mistake so you all can vilify people who you don’t know in an occupation you also know nothing about working in situations you have never been.
Report Post »sasquatch08
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 4:24amZETARHO62:
How about you admitting that the cops were outright wrong in the way they handled this from the get go?
The guy WORKS in a mine.
How about they use BRAINS rather than guns and pick him up on a traffic stop (trumped up as it may be) and never bother firing 50%+ shots that miss and might have hit his wife/kids/other innocent people? At least one guy was firing 5.56 NATO. That stuff goes through the walls and hits other houses/people. What would you be saying if the lady in the next house took one to the head while sleeping? What if that lady was your mom or wife?
How about we put an end to no-knocks where ANY reasonable person with the “wrong address” would defend themselves?
How about i yell “police!” and kick down your door at 3am? Let’s see what happens then. How much cash you got on hand?
I’m not perfect, but at least I’m not a total ****** like the person/people that signed off on this and many other “wrong address” ops that ended up with innocent people and pets dead.
This is nothing more than vigilante justice under the color of law enforcement. Those responsible AND involved should be prosecuted for nothing less than manslaughter.
Bottom Line: Cops should NEVER have put this guy in the position they put him in. We’ll never know the whole truth about the situation because 1/2 of the story is dead. The cops screwed the pooch, as they do regularly on drug raids. If you can’t accept that as reality (because it is reality) th
Report Post »klg1956
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:28amRemember when this was signed into law? If the mafia wants to get rid of somebody, all they have to do is set somebody up and let the “law” take care of it…the mafia is the global bankers, now maybe they are the law too. What happens when they come to your home because you voted a wrong way..If they can close down only Republican voting GM car dealerships, then they can do anything….and nobody does anything about it…We deserve 4 more years of this creep and his weird cronies and czars…..Iraq here we come! Obama, change you can believe in!
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:27amSoviet Union, USA:
“No Knock Raid”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV7u91A3KGQ
Usually the first thing that they do upon entry is to shoot any dogs that are in the home or dwelling, but I guess that the Guerena was lucky in that respect that they didn’t have any dogs.
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:18amOK. One last time then I’m moving on. From the article:
The officers — four of whom carried .40-caliber handguns while another had an AR-15 — moved to the door, briefly sounding a siren, then shouting “Police!” in English and Spanish. With a thrust of a battering ram, they broke the door open. Eight seconds passed before they opened fire into the house.
_________________________________________________________________________________
The shooting was justified, he said, because Guerena pointed his AR-15 at the SWAT officers and said, “I’ve got something for you,” before they opened fire.
The five SWAT team members who shot Guerena believed that he had fired his weapon first, he said. Subsequent investigation revealed that the gun‘s safety was on and hadn’t been fired. Ultimately, that is not an issue, Kastigar said.
“What reasonable person comes to the front door and points a rifle at people?” he said. “It takes several milliseconds to flip the switch from safety to fire and take out a couple of SWAT officers. I’m firmly of the opinion that he was attempting to shoot at us.”
The officers laid down “suppressive” fire because one had tripped and fallen and the others thought he’d been shot.
“You point a gun at police, you’re going to get shot,” Kastigar said
I don’t understand how anyone who reads these parts of the article can blame the police. Or at least place the entire blame on the police.
Report Post »phil65
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:26amsorry but if you point a gun at ME in MY home you are going to get shot period, you can argue until you are blue in the face in support of the police and it still won’t change my opnion on the matter. Were the police sent into a no win situation? Yea they probably were, no way this situation should have been carried out the way it was, you dont send a police raid into a house with innocent women and children in there and expect an armed citizen not to react to protect his family.
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:28amDoesn‘t look like we’re gonna settle this here. Enjoyed the debate. Let’s go get a beer.
Report Post »klg1956
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:31amBoy, are you a pushover….not only do you believe every word you read but you believe everything you are told too!
Report Post »phil65
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:33amI definitely would but they kind of frown on me getting a beer while I am on the clock. Have a good one.
Report Post »libertytreecaretaker
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:37amPhil is absolutly correct and if I awoke to someone breaking the door down in MY HOUSE I would use my SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT to defend myself and my famly in MY HOUSE WITH MY GUN! Loud noise 8 Seconds later I get to the end of my hallway and boom front door opens guns blazing! Every officer invloved should face a jury not a supervisor from their own department.
Report Post »sasquatch08
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:10amAs well as the unwinable and unconstitutional war on drugs, another major facet of this is “no-knock warrants”.
I mean think about it, the police get the wrong address (as they do terrifyingly often), you wake up at 3am half asleep thinking people are breaking into your house, grab your personal defense weapon of choice (mine’s a 12 gauge shotty) and the cops say you brandished a weapon right after they shoot you dead. God help you in this situation if you survive and actually shoot a cop you can’t identify as a cop in the dark.
The cops claim they “…moved to the door, briefly sounding a siren, then shouting “Police!” in English and Spanish.” But who really knows if that’s true? Cops lie about things all the time, especially when they figure out they just shot a former Marine. It‘s so common it has it’s own acronym: CYA (cover your @**).
While I have no evidence to support my claim; I suspect this is like many drug raids gone wrong. The cops got the wrong address and a no-knock warrant, barged in and shot a half-asleep homeowner for no real reason and now they’re doing whatever they can to cover up the mistakes they made. Further, if the bedroom is in the back of the house, the siren wakes you up but you don’t know what woke you up, you can’t hear them yell then the door breaks down.
I call shenanigans on this. The way my house is laid out and the way we’re armed, the cops better get the right address… or bring their own body bags.
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:24amWho know if it’s true? Neither the wife nor the lawyer are disputing it. That seems to be a pretty good indication that the timeline of events is true.
Report Post »sasquatch08
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:38amYou’re assuming that a woman who woke up in the middle of the night scared out of her mind and saw her husband shot to death seconds later has a perfect recollection of EXACTLY what happened and the timeline of those events. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
The cops on the other hand have multiple people, lawyers and most of all TIME to get their story straight.
Just because you add “P.D.” or PhD or MS to someones name doesn’t make them as trustworthy as Jesus Himself.
Report Post »whteshark
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:04amSounds fishy to me. It’s one thing to use Swat in an armed stand off or with an armed murderer. Next thing you know they will be using Swat when you jaywalk. It makes for big headlines when they do raids like this and it means more money in the coffers, except when they kill someone who was just defending his home.
I used to have the utmost respect for police.
I think they’re nothing but state sanctioned criminals now.
Report Post »Puppy
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:19amI don’t know about this one…he has a history so when the busted in the door and there’s a guy with a weapon…what do you do?
Report Post »Kinnison
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:04amMarines have long memories. If I were the SWAT officers involved in this shooting I would move and seek other employment. If someone—anyone—bashes the door of my home in in the middle of the night, then someone is going to get shot, and it might not be me or my family. This is not the first time that SWAT officers have either hit the wrong residence by mistake or gotten a search warrant under false pretenses. It has got to stop.
Report Post »Jase
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:55amWow, you are one confused, miserable little troll.
Report Post »athousandmillion
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:53amIt seems to me the problem is the unwinable war on drugs. What are the police to do when they kick in someones door and he has an assult rifle to protect himself? What should the home owner do when eight armed people kick his door in besides attempt to defend himself? He didnt have time to identify them as he was just woken up by his wife saying that someone is trying to break in and his adrenaline was pumping. The last thing you do when your adrenaline is pumping and you are preparing to defend yourself is disarm.
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:48amI thought I read that right. This must be the part you ignored.
The shooting was justified, he said, because Guerena pointed his AR-15 at the SWAT officers and said, “I’ve got something for you,” before they opened fire.
Report Post »phil65
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:19amGrayling,
Report Post »I get your point, but damn dude if someone breaks in the door of my house I am am coming out of the bedroom shooting. At least the homeowner had his weapon on safety. Since when do you get a warrant for an all out assault on someones home with such very vague evidence? Sounds to freaking fishy too me, there were better ways to handle the situation and the only mistake the homeowner made was coming out of the room with his weapon on safety.
libertytreecaretaker
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:19amwhat about the part that the safety on his firarm was not placed in the fire position and his firarm was never discharged! And the part where the officers stated that he shot the leed officer and that is why he was fired upon! the leed officer tripped. I will give the Marine who fight to preserve our liberty over Deputies who slaughtered this Marine! 71 rounds discharged and only God protected his wife and son from these murders! It was a strech to obtain that warrent and we lost one of our bravest because of it.
Report Post »Tim Law
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:07amI did read the whole story. The wife woke him up said there were men outside with guns. He jumps up grabs his gun steps out his bedroom door the cops kick in the front door 20 feet from him open fire. He’s dead on the floor of his own home. 1 story the cop’s story. Hmm maybe if they would have given the man a few seconds to see that it was the cop’s, he’d have dropped his weapon. We’ll never know now!
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:44amYou read the whole story? I guess you ignored the part where he stepped out and said ‘I got something for you’ and then pointed the gun at them. or did I read that wrong?
Report Post »jdog777
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:55amactually… you forgot the part where the cops announced their presence in english and spanish clearly before they entered. The only problem with this story is that no arrests have been made.. why? From a guy in AZ… the sheriff in Tucson refuses to pursue this any further after the political fall out. 1. the misuse of SWAT 2. His fudged up department he leads… under the spotlight after the near assassination of Rep. Giffords 3. He blamed the Tea Party for all of it.
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:04amOh, that clown. I wondered.
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:06amWhen‘s this guy’s term up and what’s his chances of reelection?
Report Post »Cuthalu
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:07amThose police will never see a day in jail. That is our country now. Accept it.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:39amWhat if one of the children was behind Jose Guerena Ortiz and SWAT fired those rounds? If you come in the middle of the night and wake people up, it may take them a few moments to comprehend that you are the police and burglars. Frankly, you would think that they would wait and nab him in the morning on his way out the door or to work, knowing their are children and others in the home.
Frankly, I think they overreacted and the SWAT team was just a bit trigger happy.
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:45amIs anyone reading the entire article? Sounds to me as though the Police didn’t have much choice. But then, I read the whole article.
Report Post »phillipwgirard
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:10amI read the entire article. so what he got arrested, pulled over several times and let go by the way. maybe he was no saint but their tactics are pretty 3rd reich.
Report Post »texasfireguy
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:31amI don’t know if I would be very patient with a gun pointed at me either. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I don’t think the police could have reacted much differently once the gun was pointed at them. But it seems like there might be questions about why they were there in the first place.
Report Post »Ditto Head
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:13am@ColoradoDimwit
Report Post »They must have switched the video, because in the video I watched, it was daytime, and the cops made enough racket to wake the dead. Frankly, you weren’t there, and haven’t the slightest inkling of what the cops were faced with or whether or not their actions were merited. Frankly, you’re a presumptuous ignorant fool.
RLTW
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 11:11amThe one aspect of this case everyone seems to ignore is the poor execution of the police entry. Lead officer trips in the fatal funnel? That’s a total lack of training combined with fear. The other officers believe he was shot, but lack the situational awareness as to the sound of a shot.
The fact the officer tripped and the stack stalled in the fatal funnel is proof enough to me these cops are incompetent.
Rangers
Report Post »Lead
The
Way
COFemale
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:47pmI read the article but I mistakenly attributed coming off a 12 hour shift to the middle of the night. I did not watch the video. My error. Still just because the sirens sounded and they were yelling in English and Spanish, what transpired inside the home is not seen and they did not give the family enough time to answer the door or respond.
I am not sure if that happened right outside my door, I would be comprehending exactly what is about to transpire. Frankly, since I don’t deal in drugs or own a gun of any kind; I am not sure I would respond to the door.
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:28am“You point a gun at police, you’re going to get shot,” Kastigar said. Hard to argue with that.
Report Post »phillipwgirard
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:32am22 times?
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:34amGosh I guess if someone is shooting at you, you’re gonna take the time to count the rounds you fire?
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:39amI remember rapid fire training in bootcamp. It only takes a few seconds for six or eight men to fire 70 rounds. Whaddya think?
Report Post »phillipwgirard
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:03am22 times though?
Report Post »Lord_Frostwind
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 5:22amphillipwgirard, police are trained to fire until the target stops moving, once deadly force is authorized you make sure that the target isn’t going shoot you from the ground. It is a lovely bleed over from the days when criminals were so doped up you could put dozens of bullets in their chest before their blood loss overrode their motor control.
Now, get five people pointing their gun at the same target, 4 ten round magazines for the pistols and a thirty plus round magazine for the assault rifle, and see just how fast those guns empty. Adrenaline is an amazing thing when shooting a gun.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:26amThere should be No such thing as a Warrant to enter a Home. Just… announce the Warrant, Wait, and Seige the Home… and once outside, then make the Arrest! Oh, it takes longer… but the Police are paid by the Hour not by the Case!
Report Post »This was the same Problem as Waco… The Government does not learn!
grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:30amDid we read the same article? The suspect came to the door said, “I got something for you” and then pointed a gun at them. Just what do you expect the police to do?
Report Post »mrsalvage2
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:21amSee, it does not matter if ou are innocent or not.
You are guilty by association.
Now under a new Senate Bill, you will be held indefinitely by the Military if supected:
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Congress_to_Vote_Next_Week_on_EXPLICITLY_Creating_a_Police_State_/16759/0/38/38/Y/M.html
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:33amYou’re gonna have to give me a source other than the ACLU. They’d lie when the truth would sound better.
Report Post »mrsalvage2
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 8:55amwow grayling.
ACLU has opposed the Secret Espionage Courts and the Patriot Act, and things that they said would happen have come to pass.
but they have no credibility on this issue.
Read the article and consider the experiences that you have burried in your memory as they were so henous and traumatic that you must struggle to face the horror.
Report Post »Jefferson
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:15amThe TRUTH is that the “war on drugs” has failed. There are as many, if not more drugs on the streets today, than there were 30 years ago.
Report Post »Legalize and regulate, and the bottom would drop out of the market overnight. Gang bangers, out of business. Drug cartels? No more.
Learn who Cele Castillo is, and you will see a deeper side of what is going on.
http://powderburns.org/
There is a REASON the troops in Afghanistan have to turn a blind eye to poppy cultivation. Do some research.
13th Imam
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:15amI need more info to make a decision. Any Drugs found? What was the actual purpose of the Raid?
Report Post »Got2bRoni
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:07amThis is sad. Somewhere the truth can be found……
Report Post »