Former SEAL Shares Tips on How to Protect Yourself in a Shooting Like That in Colorado
- Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:26pm by
Liz Klimas
- Print »
- Email »
A memorial near the Century 16 theater where the massacre occurred Friday just after midnight. (Photo: AP/Alex Brandon)
The country has had a weekend for the tragic Aurora, Colo., shooting to sink in. During that time, many have probably gone from shock, to anger, to grief, and several other stages. Some are also contemplating the lessons that can be learned. The editor-in-chief of SOFREP (the Special Operations Forces Report) is one who has considered the latter, and he has felt compelled to share “some lessons” from his time as a Navy SEAL that he “can pass on to the average citizen.” In other words, he has some advice for people going forward that could help protect you should you ever find yourself in such a situation.
(Related: See other coverage on The Blaze related to the Aurora “Dark Knight” shooting)
Brandon Webb, who was apart of the Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL Class 215, told TheBlaze that he, like many, was “angry that this sick individual could just stroll into this theater and open fire on innocent, unsuspecting people.”
However sickened Webb was by the news, while flying to New York and contemplating the events, advice “just poured out” of him about how to react — as much as possible — in dangerous situations.
“I wanted to do something to help that could possibly better prepare people in the future,” Webb said. “Having any plan in place will better prepare people …”
In a blog post, Webb first offers advice on how to lower your profile as a target should you find yourself in such a horrific event. He writes that one can achieve this at public venues by choosing seats that would allow for a “hasty exit.” For example, Webb states that he “still combat [parks] (backs into a space) and [sits] with my back to the wall when I’m eating.”
If a violent event, such as a shooting, were to occur, Webb then explains the difference between taking cover and concealment. He says that “concealment” merely hides oneself, while “cover” would hide and protect.
“It’s the difference between hiding behind a movie seat or a concrete wall,” he writes. “Think and move. A good decision executed quickly is better than a great one never executed. Violence of action, as we call it in the Spec Ops community, will often change the odds in your favor.”
From an offensive perspective, Webb points out that in the Aurora case specifically, the shooter — who police have identified as 24-year-old James Holmes — was heavily covered in body armor and other gear. Webb says that this could be used to the victim’s advantage. He suggests if one had a flashlight with a high lumens, they use it to blind the assailant:
The high powered beam would have taken away his vision for 3-4 seconds, which is an eternity and enough time to flight or fight. There’s also no shame in surviving and getting you and your loved ones out of harm – especially little ones.
Webb recommends a 200+ lumens flashlight that is waterproof, LED and runs off a 3-volt lithium battery. He says they are light, non-lethal and can be carried anywhere (including through airport security). For this tool, Webb said “I can’t recommend this purchase enough.”
He also advises those serious about protection to look up classes by former military or law enforcement in their area. If you are truly concerned about an attack, he recommends avoiding high-profile places with large crowds in the first place.
Webb cautiously points out the usefulness of a concealed carry weapon in this situation. He says for one to effectively use a concealed carry weapon they should “rehearse … use scenarios both physically and mentally.” He also points out that one should consider whether or not a jury within the state would likely rule in favor of the person using a weapon as a form of self defense.
Still, he told TheBlaze that he worries about this tragedy being used to bring up the issue of gun regulations.
(Related: AP: Renewed Calls for Stricter Gun Laws Getting ‘Little Support’)
“…[T]hey’re barking up the wrong tree,” Webb said. “Bad people will find a way to do harm whether it’s homemade explosives, illegal weapons or flying planes into buildings. Restricting law abiding citizens right to bear arms is not the answer.”
Read Webb’s full post on SOFREP for more details and tips to prevent and protect yourself from attacks here.
Popular Stories
Does Misstated Marathon Claim Prove Paul Ryan Is Dishonest? (POLL) 690 Comments
Paper Details Obama Admin’s Alleged Secret Note Sent to Iran: If Israel Attacks, We Won’t Get Involved 482 Comments
Obama: RNC Like Watching ‘Black-and-White TV’ Because Romney ‘Did Not Offer a Single New Idea’ 375 Comments
Roseanne Barr: Most Billionaires ‘Violent Pedophiles’ & ‘Heartless’ Cocaine Addicts 336 Comments
‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 323 Comments
Faith
This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 310 Comments- Pakistani Muslim Cleric Accused of Framing Disabled Christian Girl in Koran-Burning Case Read More
- ‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 323 Comments
Meet the Controversial German Imam Accused of Brutally Beating His Wife & Pushing Sharia Law Read More
‘Self-Proclaimed Messiah’ & Unification Church Leader the Rev. Sun Myung Moon Has Died — Here’s His Life Story Read More
Business
President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 220 Comments- Germany’s Upcoming Court Ruling Will be Huge for the EU Read More
Ford Looks to Beat Toyota for Best-Selling Car in 2012 With This Model 148 Comments
Bernanke & QE3: Here’s What You Need to Know Read More- ‘Extortion’: Why Did the Labor Department ‘Drop the Hammer’ on Oregon Farmers? 302 Comments
Technology
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 310 Comments
‘TaserDrone’: Hackers Weaponize Quadcopter With Actual ‘Shocking’ Technology Read More
Ever Heard of the Wild ‘Burning Man’ Festival in the Middle of the Nev. Desert? Here’s Your Primer Read More
Stanford Develops Technology ‘Better Than Steroids’ for Athlete Recovery Read More
Have You Pretended to Know What ‘the Cloud’ Is? You’re Not Alone Read More
Submitting your tip... please wait!
Comments (302)
LameLiberals
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:10pmWeirdos show up everywhere – subways pushing people off the platforms, planes, trains, movie theaters, sports stadiums – there a million places.
This guy is right. Just keep yourself educated as to where all the exits are on a plane or in a building (good advice in case of fire also) and keep aware of your surroundings. You cannot live in a bubble.
I am the last person to give excuses for bad behavior but this guy – something is not right – the guy is truly mental.
Report Post »IraHayesFlagRaiser
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:35pmHoorah!!!
Also can’t wait until the FAT LADDIE sings this coming Nov!!
Report Post »muffythetuffy
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:36pmTHE GUN LAWS TURNED THAT THEATER INTO A SLAUGHTER HOUSE
Of all those people, not one had a handgun. In a state were the 2nd Amenement is not revoked at on average two or three people would have been armed. That killer would have thought twice if he knew the chance of encounter with an armed person was more than 0. He was wearing body armor but shots to the body or head can cause broken bones and pain. Gun laws turned that theater into a Cambodian style KILLING FIELD.
Report Post »lynskinners
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:47pmHave we have become a notion of victims? I’ve combed the reports and every interview with eye witnesses and the most shocking thing to me is that there is NO evidence anyone tried to take down this coward. As for this post, I really see no purpose for any MAN to try and make himself a smaller target. I for one will NOT subject myself to be a target for anyone – with or without a weapon. Not for any considerable length of time that it takes for me to position myself to counter attack. Importantly, this shooting had to have taken several minutes to carry out. “To fire 100+ rounds of ammunition from any weapon requires multiple reloads, each of which takes several seconds to carry out. There would have been long pauses in the shooting. There has even been a report that the AR-15 rifle used by the shooter jammed, which would have created an even longer pause. These pauses are opportunities to bum rush the guy, or shoot back, or throw something at him, or just punch him right in the jaw with everything you’ve got. Holding a gun does not make you invincible. If anything, it makes you very, very vulnerable to all sorts of attacks. I’m not blaming the people there, I’m just bewildered that nobody fought back. It doesn’t make sense. Unless, of course, the very fabric of American culture is now so passive and afraid that people have forgotten how to take action in the face of fear. REMEMBER It’s your responsibility to protect yourself – 99.99% of the time the police can NOT help
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:48pm@LameLiberals
I’m really sorry to tell you this, but there is no real way to prepare for a situation like this. I wish that there was.
It’s like Generals that make Battle Plans. When the Battle startes the Plans fall to pieces.
Report Post »VRW Conspirator
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:53pm@Muffy
don’t blame gun laws…for or against them…for this…this guy was a PSYCHO plain and simple and would have done this regardless…he didn’t intend to come home…look at his apartment….
CO has some of the least restrictive gun laws in the nation…much like LA, TX, ID, WY, AK, and the least of any UT….you can actually own and sell fully automatic weapons in some of these states with the correct Federal license for the shop and owner….which is why I now live in TX and will soon own my first shotgun and rifle and handgun….every member of my family will eventually own one of each and become marksman and/or sharpshooter qualified on them all….
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 5:03pm@mopman64
God was right there, and it’s not about you……….
Report Post »Top Hat
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 5:15pm@mopman. You demand your free will and then shake your fist at God when he gives it. And then you scream that you don’t like the answer.
You need to do some thinkin’ ….
Report Post »TheLeftMadeMeRight
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 5:48pmWell Mr mopman64, have you ever heard of a guy named Satin? See if you read the whole story you will see Satin is around too, and influencing people like this nut job in Colorado to kill, and people like you deny God.
See having “faith” isn’t easy, as evidence of your inability to have any or to comprehend those that do. We were all put here on earth as a test, to do with and make of what you were given, and you are failing miserably.
So why do you have such a problem with people of faith? Is it because you can’t comprehend or understand, and like a child at the candy store, you can’t have some so you throw a fit and embarrass your parents?
Just remember, if I am wrong you get to say I told you so, but if you are wrong you will have some explaining to do. And His name is spelled God.
Report Post »St3phen
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 5:52pm@lynnskinners While I agree with you, If you‘re going to use someone else’s exact words, at least give them an attribution and let people know you’re quoting from a source:
Report Post »http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_James_Holmes_Batman_shooting.html
Wyatt's Torch
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 6:21pmWasn’t “SATIN” one of the warriors on American Gladiators?… oh wait,… you meant SATAN… never mind, that makes more sense :)
Report Post »pollyanna
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 6:42pm@poverty.sucks:
John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. :
35 By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another.
We are NOT the judge. Careful.
Report Post »Two Sheds
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 7:21pmThis was in a theater. Everyone should have thrown their popcorn, diet coke and mentos (or whatever you have, jacket, purse, bright flashlight) at the shooter to confuse him. Then seek cover or attack, if you have the balls. Shooting an attacker with a pistol for personal carry (short barrel under powered against kevlar) in a dark crowded smokey noisey theater at someone wearing body armor will only invite fratricide from amateurs. I‘m not saying don’t shoot back, go ahead if you are able. For most folks it’s best to confuse and disorient the attacker and then run like hell to find cover.
Report Post »Lt_Scrounge
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 7:31pmLyn, while I applaud your thought that actions could’ve been taken to end this thing more quickly, unless you were right on top of him, you simply don’t know diddly about weapons with high capacity magazines. It doesn’t take several seconds to change a magazine, especially on an AR. 100 round magazines are readily available, though only the best ones are truly reliable and they take maintenance to remain that way. The best defense in this situation is to simply shoot the SOB, preferably in the face. Even in body armor, a high powered center fire round would’ve certainly made the guy slow down, if not stop, his attack. Multiple follow up shots would’ve increased that effect. As Brandon Webb stated, a 200 lumen flashlight will work wonders to stun an attacker and destroy their night vision. While most of them require the CR123 3 volt lithium batteries, the Nebo Red line not only uses AAA batteries, it also has a 210 Lumen strobe mode that is designed to not only blind but can also cause disorientation and seizures. The Blue Line only has a 110 lumen output but only requires one AA battery. Both of them are reasonably priced at under $30. If you have the money for a flashlight that is basically battle proven, the Surefire E2D led Defender uses two CR123A batteries and is nice size. They are a bit pricier at $190+ but police and military swear by them. While I keep a Red Line on my night stand, I keep a Surefire E2D in my console since the lithium batteries have a long shelf
Report Post »stage9
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 7:50pm“The high powered beam would have taken away his vision for 3-4 seconds, which is an eternity and enough time to flight or fight. There’s also no shame in surviving and getting you and your loved ones out of harm – especially little ones.”
Could’a, would‘a should’a. I’m sorry, but c’mon, this kind of stuff doesn‘t happen when you’re prepared. It happens when you’re not!
He can say all he wants about the fact that a flashlight could’ve made a difference, but if we’re gonna speculate, a personal assault rifle could have made a difference too! But that wasn’t available to anyone either!
The point is, a flashlight is not something the average person is going to carry around with them. And the average person certainly won’t be chill enough under pressure to use it anyway! You think a mother of 3 is going to stare down a guy with an assault rifle pointed at her kids with a flashlight?? Yeah, right!
After a while, after time has passed and this event fades into memory, just like with Columbine, folks will start leaving their flashlights at home, and then another event like this will happen again. It’s unfortunate, and that’s rather blunt, but it’s true.
It’s human nature folks. Speculation is good for the moment but never realistic in the long run.
Evil exists in this world and sometimes it takes victims. You can do all that you can to avoid being a victim and still become one. A soldier especially should know that.
Report Post »stage9
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 7:52pm“The high powered beam would have taken away his vision for 3-4 seconds, which is an eternity and enough time to flight or fight. There’s also no shame in surviving and getting you and your loved ones out of harm – especially little ones.”
Could’a, would‘a should’a. I’m sorry, but c’mon, this kind of stuff doesn‘t happen when you’re prepared. It happens when you’re not!
He can say all he wants about the fact that a flashlight could’ve made a difference, but if we’re gonna speculate, a personal assault rifle could have made a difference too! But that wasn’t available to anyone either!
The point is, a flashlight is not something the average person is going to carry around with them. And the average person certainly won’t be chill enough under pressure to use it anyway! You think a mother of 3 is going to stare down a guy with an assault rifle pointed at her kids with a flashlight?? Yeah, right!
After a while, after time has passed and this event fades into memory, just like with Columbine, folks will start leaving their flashlights at home, and then another event like this will happen again. It’s unfortunate, and that’s rather blunt, but it’s true.
It’s human nature folks. Speculation is good for the moment but never realistic in the long run.
Evil exists in this world and sometimes it takes victims. You can do all that you can to avoid being a victim and still become one. A soldier especially should know that. And I was one.
Report Post »FatPolice
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 8:01pmMOPMAN64
God didn’t give up on you. Rather our Country gave up on God. Jesus was sent to redeem the world from these fallen Satanic individuals. It was Adam in the garden,who gave the Title Deed of the world over to Satan, when he wanted to be “wise” like God. You only have to read the Bible to understand God is love and why bad things happen to good people.
Luke 13:16 “Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?”.
Jesus Christ saved her from the enemy. He will save you too. You just have to believe that He can, and repent and return to Him. I pray you will take action to stop blaming God and put evil on the back of the one who causes it, and that is Lucifer, the fallen Angel and his minions.
Report Post »NOT A CRAZY
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 8:35pmJesus loves you Mopman.
Report Post »RamonPreston
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 8:59pm@ PovertySucks John 3:13
Report Post »Kaoscontrol
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 9:00pmA flashlight is good, but hitting him in the eyes with the laser site on my 357 (right before I pull the trigger) would stop him really quick.
Report Post »dmerwin
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 9:09pmHe covered the bases. Blaze this is a good and helpful story.
Report Post »poverty.sucks
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 9:44pmFor God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:16, 17 KJV)
http://www.PeaceWithGod.Jesus.Net
Report Post »poverty.sucks
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 9:49pm@Polly
The Word of God is profitable, those who fail to believe in his words WILL be condemned. The Gospel is bias to those who choose to exclude themselves from Him and the teaching of Christ Jesus. Therefore we have the freedom of choice, however, we don’t choose our consequences.
http://www.PeaceWithGod.Jesus.Net
Report Post »lynskinners
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 10:25pm@ST3PHEN, You are correct. I had the quotations in the post reply but the word limit cut it off. You’ll notice the quotation marks before the words “To fire…” Always give credit where credit is due. My bad for not checking the post reply before submission. Thanks for catching the mistake.
Report Post »Congongrass
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 10:52pmI am really surprised that no one in the theater was armed. Muffythetuffy should check Colorado laws before suggesting that our state is anti 2nd Ammendment. A concealed carry permit has simple paperwork which requires proof of a four hour class. Fees are determined by the county sheriff plus a background investigation by the CBI. Mine took two weeks to clear; more populated counties may take the maximum allowed, 90 days. One of our local weekend consealed carry class courses is totally filled for both Saturday and Sunday. Legal Heat, out of Utah, holds monthly classes and there are many other local courses offered.
Report Post »EyeofthePatriot
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 12:10am@VRW CONSPIRATOR
Aurora, CO has it’s own set of laws. “Unenforceable” at this time or not… it’s still a law on the books, and you think your typical citizen is going to push the letters of the law to test this “unenforceable” law?
http://cnsnews.com/blog/ron-meyer/auroras-strict-gun-laws-didnt-prevent-shooting-if-one-law-abiding-person-theater-had
Report Post »WATER-THE-TREE
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 12:25amStrange how this happens JUST BEFORE they are going to vote on that UN treaty thing….. Is Alex Jones correct? Just saying???
Report Post »warrior21
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 9:52amBryanB;
I agree! Everyone seems to forget the environment this shooting took place in. No one can say what they would have done when the shooting started. The only thing you could do is get down and hope you are out of the line of fire. If someone wanted to take some action they would first have to locate the shooter. What action you could take will depend on the distance to the shooter. It would seen to me that the flashlight would be of little use in a large theater especially if you were in the front row and the shooter were in the rear. All in all, there is little you could do in this situation except get down and pray. As for attacking the shooter physically, I would think he would have prevented this by securing his back. Even if armed guards were available a shooter using an AR 15 with a 100 round magazine would have gotten quite a few rounds before they could take him down. As for concealed carriers, unless they were experienced, I would think they would have added to the causality list if they had draw their weapons. In sum, the chaos caused by a maniac firing an automatic weapon in a crowded, darkened theater would turn the crowd into a mob trying to evacuate the theater, and if you are not shot you might be trampled to death.
Report Post »Clive
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 2:37pmmuffythetuffy wrote:
That killer would have thought twice if he knew the chance of encounter with an armed person was more than 0. He was wearing body armor but shots to the body or head can cause broken bones and pain.
—————————
not true, he was wearing body armor past his groin, he also had a ballistic helmet on, and a throat protector. he also had launched tear gas into the theater. he also had an AR-15, and sprayed bullets for 3 minutes straight, in a dark theater. Remember people would be running and screaming all around you.
i’m a big guns rights supporter, but there isn’t a shot in hell that you were going to “take him out” with a simple hand gun in that scenario, even if you were dirty harry, you are probably far more likely to kill an innocent person trying to flee. there was nothing that was going to stop this guy, not by accident, he prepared this massacre for months.
Report Post »JEANNIEMAC
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 6:49pmRead my posting about the grant James Holmes received, for neuroscience. If you noticed the way he looked at his hearing, isn’t it possible he was drugged or hypnotized?
Report Post »pipsqueak
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:08amWeirdos show up everywhere – subways pushing people off the platforms, planes, trains, movie theaters, sports stadiums – there a million places.
This guy is right. Just keep yourself educated as to where all the exits are on a plane or in a building (good advice in case of fire also) and keep aware of your surroundings. You cannot live in a bubble.
****
my reply”
So … what about the tens of other spectators that NOT near an exit? Are they doomed? Not everyone at an event can sit next to an exit. Get real!!!
You, conservatives, want to shove YOUR concept of Christianity on everyone else, yet not hold to those teachings infuriates me. I want to throw my Christianity back at YOU. You are “self centered” only concerned of your own well being. One that is NOT following the teachings of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.
YOU are the one living in a bubble!!
******
I am the last person to give excuses for bad behavior but this guy – something is not right – the guy is truly mental.
I agree!
Report Post »bharris0
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:09pmIt would also be better if the flashlight had a strobe capability as that adds to the disorientation.
Report Post »Texas Chris
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:19pmIn a smoke filled theater it would be an excellent diversion.
Report Post »The_Pointy_End
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:05pmor cause the perpetrator to fire in the direction of the light making you the target.
Report Post »000degrees
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:14pmActually it would be better if the flashlight was attached to an AR that had one in the breech and a full mag…….
Report Post »Patrick Henry II
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:41pm000Degrees
Report Post »I like your strategy.
Timijim
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:48pmIt’s possible, however I prefer a good small Surefire light. When you hit them with a light that bright, especially when their eyes have adjusted to the darkness, you will have a couple seconds. Enough time to run, or put a few rounds through his gas mask.
Report Post »alinmatt
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 5:56pm@thepointyend, nothing like drawing attention to yourself. That was the first thing I thought of when I read about the flashlight. While temporarily blinded, that guy‘s trigger finger would still be fully functional and he’d probably be shooting at the last place he looked, the light.
Report Post »Shran-For-President
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 6:18pm@The Pointy End – Lights, in hand and attached to firearms, are part of every tactical team’s armament for the simple reason that they work to disorient the opponent. You may think that they will draw fire, but they typically do not. Even in the odd case where the bad guy does try to shoot in that direction, the disorientation makes it extremely inaccurate. I can understand why people would think the lights would draw fire, but it is simply not so.
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 7:06pmWhat if the shooter directs their fire at the light ?????
Report Post »hifi74
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 8:05pmBRYANB,
Not really Bryan. From my own experience, specially when you’re in an exceptionally dark environment, a sudden jolt to the optical nerves from a HID light has the tendency to not only get someone to drop what is in their hands but send their hands up above their face and eyes to try and block the incoming light. That will afford you a few valuable unabated seconds to either return fire or to move yourself and others to cover. Also can’t express situational awareness enough. There are often things in your immediate environment that can be used as well. For example a short concentrated burst from a near-by fire extinguisher in the direction of the assailant would offer a few seconds of concealment to move to a better position or again move yourself and/or others to a safer location. As a word of warning though, if you are intending on returning fire the fire extinguisher burst would also block your field of view as well, so use it situationally.
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 9:41pm@hifi74
I once saw a Burglar shot in the head, from doing the samething with a flashlight, in the offices of a pitch black ware-house.
Be very careful about giving advice on these situations, every scenario is different. If you give someone bad tactical advice, and they get hurt, you are going to feel stupid……..
Report Post »hifi74
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 10:05pmBRYANB,
This isn’t bad tactical advice, it is proven techniques. Sorry but this is the kind of stuff that I have experience in and have seen work extensively well. No I would never feel stupid for helping others to be able to defend themselves. So you can take the platitudes and peddle them elsewhere.
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 11:10pm@hifi74
If you had any Training and or Experience, in law enforcement or the military. You would know that what tactic works in one situation, will not work in the next ,and nothing is proven. You can train and train and train, and nothing can prepare you for the actions or reactions of another.
The only thing you and this Navy Seal are going to do, is get someone hurt, and all because of ego………
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 5:31amPlease everyone Listen
Don’t go out and pay $200.00 to $1000.00 for a “Flashlight”..
If you are serious about defending yourselves and others, go and buy a Handgun, preferably a .38 Special Revolver with fixed sights, that will chamber +P ammo. I say a Revolver, because they are more reliable, accurate and require less maintenance and cleaning. Revolvers in 357 or 44 Special are very good also.
What ever kind of Handgun you deside even if it’s 1911 45 Auto, Master it. Know everything about it. Take NRA classes if you can, if not go to the Public Library, and learn as much about shooting as you can for free. And go to your local gun range, and practice, untill you can put a group of rounds anywhere on the target at will.
Go and get a Concealed Carry Permit, so when your at the Move Theater some night with your family, and some lunatic pulls out a gun and starts shooting everyone, you can stand up and SHOOT him in the head.
So which is better, Blinding the shooter for a few seconds with a “Flashlight”, or Killing the shooter and saving everyone ?
And it’s better to be Tried by 12, then carryed by 6…………
Report Post »Mil-Dot
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 9:03amYou know what, if somebody in the theater had a hand grenade, pulled pin with teeth, lobbed it straight-arm at the miscreant, BOOOM!. Now that would be awesome. Anyway, all jokes aside. I don’t want the govt to “protect” me and my family. Just get the hell out of the way. The govt is partially responsible for this tradgedy by disarming everybody so they are nothing but sitting ducks. I don’t want their “protection”.
Report Post »hifi74
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 6:37pmBRYANB,
If I had any law enforcement or military training? I WAS a Military Police Officer thank you very much. And as I said before a technique such as that is a very effective technique. Just to prove my point, what is the first thing people do when driving down the road and someone comes around the corner with their bright lights on? They bring their arm/s and hands up to block the light. In a situation like this a HID flashlight with a higher lumen amount achieves the same goal. So please, you can take that crap right back to the bus stop because it ain’t working here.
Report Post »hifi74
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 6:42pmBRYANB,
For the love of god man. No one is saying not to arm themselves. But using the flashlight in conjunction with the firearm is what they are saying to do. Jesus, learn to read first. Instead of just mashing the keyboard and hope that something intelligent comes out. Using the flashlight to blind them will buy you time to either get to cover if you are out and exposed and if you are already in cover then it gives you several seconds of unabated time to line up your shot and take it, WHICH is something that I said in my previous posts. Something that you seem incapable of recognizing. Instead of running off half cocked, try reading the whole thing first and don’t just cherry pick for your response. That is the behavior of the Hypocrats here, hmmm I’m seeing a pattern here with you.
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on July 25, 2012 at 1:10am@hifi74
I’m very reluctant to believe that you served as a Military Police Officer, because of your answers.
The first thing the Army teaches all Soldiers in Combat Arms M.O.S., during night operations, no “Flashlights” are to be used, unless in a secure location from the sight of the enemy, and only with a red lens.
And in BCT on the Night Infiltration Course. the Army will not even let you look at a “Flashlight” let alone have one.
In BCT and AIT the Army reinforces not using “Flashlights” or any luminescs materiels and giving your position away.
And you don’t really need a “Flashlight” attached to your M4, because you already have a laser sight there.
And one more thing, The Army issues Night Vison, so why would you need to blind the enemy with a “Flashlight”, when you can already have the element of surprise. because you can see him at night and he can’t see you.
Can you see my point ?????
Report Post »Nevermind
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:06pmWhile most who have served know how to deal with tear gas ( since we all had to get gassed in Basic) the majority of the population would not knwo how to deal with the gas and would lose it. SO it sounds good to haev a weapon on you but there isnt much worse than somone with a loaded weapon freaking out after being tear gassed, that would add to the body count.
Also , i dont know how many movies you go to see but the ability to sit with your back to the wall is slim to none so that advice dotn help either.
In the end when it is your time to go it is your time to go and all the monday morning QB’ing sounds good but since 4 of the 12 dead served in the milatry it shows that aint much you can do when time is up.
Report Post »KickinBack
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:20pmI can’t even fathom the psychological stresses one would experience under such conditions, but I would at least trust a military or police trained citizen with a weapon in that situation.
Report Post »johnpaulkuchtajr
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:26pmHey Nevermind,
Tell that to all the folks in Ocala, FL, who were saved from God-knows-what on 13 July 2012, when two thugs burst into an Internet cafe. One POS had a gun and the other had a baseball bat.
One of the Internet customers, Samuel Williams, calmly rose, pulled his pistol and began firing at the would-be robbers. Both robbers fled with wounds and police arrested both. All this can be googled using the info above. Sam had a concealed carry permit in FL.
I‘ll just bet that if you asked Sam’s fellow cafe customers what their thoughts were on self defense and concealed carry, it would make interesting copy.
BTW, have you seen any combat? How about a bar fight? Been slapped by your boyfriend?
Report Post »1TrueOne55
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:39pmA lot depends on the theatre’s construction usually the row farthest from the screen (last and highest) has some sort of barrier to the entrance to keep light from entering directly thus interfereing with viewing. Most theatre’s have that hallway built generally a “T” or “L” shaped entrance and it has a row of seats backed up to them.
It takes nearly 30 minutes to adjust to low light conditions to be able to see. And any light like a simple flashlight can destroy that for at least two or three seconds. Try it before going to bed, turn off the lights and then go to the bathroom and turn on your lights to find your toilet, just feel that temporary sensation of blindness just from that. You should be able to see what I am talking about.
Report Post »deeberj
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:53pmNevermind, what about that shooting in a church where an armed volunteer security guard stopped him.
I don’t believe in “if it’s your time to go” being used as a way to be complacent.
Report Post »obamasacommie
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:56pmIf the 4 had a weapon im sure they would have been able to take this dork out, and your comment that when it’s your time to go its your time yes we should all just lay around as lemmings and be victims. I carry and i can assure you that i would’nt have added to the body count, if someone who knew how to use a firearm had one i promise you the body count would have been much less then it was and we could have saved alot of money on prosecutng and jailing this loser. Also the military is’nt trying to help you deal with gas in basic, they are showing you how the mask works and teaching you to have faith in your mask. No one can “deal with gas” those of us who have served are not any better at dealing with CS then anyone else.
Report Post »eagle2715
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:58pmJOHNPAULKUCHTAJR,
By seeing combat he is some how more prepared for a movie theater incursion? Get off your pedestal…
The Old man did a great thing, and is a great story in support of CC. He was over not engrossed in a movie, then disoriented with some kind of irritant and smoke (have they confirmed it was tear gas?)…
Making assumptions as to how people would of been able to respond to this individual is pointless. Until someone else shoots up a theater that has armed folks in it we will never know how it ends up.
Save your snarky “did you serve in combat” ********* attitude for boots and girls at the bar.
I am an excellent pistol marksmen, and expend thousands of rounds a year on the range keep that skill sharp. I’ve also been through the CS gas chamber multiple times. And regardless of the situation I would never want to have to put the combination of those two factors to a test, especially in a small, dark, enclosed space, with very thin walls, and 100s of people in every direction. Your responsible for every round you send down range, and with smoke and some sort of irritant blocking your vision you have no way of knowing what is behind the shooter unless you are very very close.
That being said, I still take my sidearm almost everywhere with me. And I also think the story would be different had someone been armed and able to respond in that theater, but we will never know.
Report Post »apbt55
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:00pmYes and three of them died taking a bullet for someone else.
Adrenalin can help a lot with dealing with tear gas. And practicing with your weapon to make sure certain actions become instinct will help ensure you make the right moves. I never served in the military but fought Muay thai and MMA professionally and also worked int he executive protection area for a bit. I have pepper sprayed, tazed, and trapped with tear gas; you can keep your wits long enough to act. the biggest thing is to rehearse a few defensive reactions enough that they be become reflexive, then there is no need for higher level thought.
Report Post »burnteye86
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:04pmHe said he sits with his back to a wall when eating. So i‘m assuming he’s talking about resturaunt and not a movie theater.
Report Post »eagle2715
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:06pm“Also the military is’nt trying to help you deal with gas in basic, they are showing you how the mask works and teaching you to have faith in your mask.”
Suppose that depends on when you went through and which branch. We had to shoot in the damn thing, and it sucked. Besides, that’s not his point. Your average citizen gets hit with CS, they panic and scramble, the same way a lot of guys did the first time they had to breath that #$&* in… But the 2nd time around you realize it hurts, it burns, but you can still breath and it won’t kill you.
“No one can “deal with gas” those of us who have served are not any better at dealing with CS then anyone else.”
Oh yes they can. You get exposed to it a ton you build up a tolerance. The NBC guys who had to do that training every week for all the recruits on PI weren’t immune to it, but they could sure as hell stand near the door without the mask when even the DIs took off running.
Report Post »Rickfromillinois
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 5:35pmThere are times that no matter what anyone does, they will not escape the danger. The point is, do you want to be one of those who just sits there awaiting your fate, or do you to be one of those who goes down fighting? Can’t always sit with your back to the wall? Well do so when you can. Don’t think a strong beam of light will be enough to disorient the shooter? I say go ahead and try. I would rather be shot trying to rush the guy then to be shot sitting there wetting my pants. At least several of the victims died trying to cover the bodies of someone they loved rather then go into panic mode, and one of the ways to help prevent going into a panic is situational awareness and to ask your self, what would I do if this or that happens.
Report Post »Shran-For-President
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 6:33pmThat is defeatist BS. I hope I’m never next to someone like you in an emergency.
Report Post »hifi74
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 7:48pmOBAMASACOMMIE,
I will say some people are unusually adept at shrugging off the gas though. Especially people who have been in it enough times, they are able to hold back the typically gag reflex and urge to rub your eyes (which does make it worse). While in a concentrated amount I have issue with it myself but a small amount or in outdoor or outdoor like areas I can typically move through with near impunity. And that is in part because how much I was gassed in the Army. Then as an added bonus working at the last Naval Recruit Training base as a civilian now I get the occasional “confidence chamber” (the Navy’s new term for it, because gas chamber upset a few over protective parents worried about little Johnny. Though I’m with you calling it a gas chamber) experience when working in the building (sometimes the chamber itself) while they are running Ric’s through.
Report Post »Lt_Scrounge
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 7:49pmEagle,
Don’t forget to add in the fact that some of us are somewhat less effected by CS than others to begin with. The DI was rather amazed when I simply walked out of the gas chamber coughing a little bit and washed out my eyes with my canteen and went on about my business. Later when I was running gas chambers, I never wore anything but a mask. For me, CS really isn’t much worse than a REALLY smoky bar. Yes, my eyes tear up and I cough a bit, but that wouldn’t stop me from putting half a magazine through the eye piece of the gas mask.
Report Post »hifi74
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 7:53pmEAGLE2715,
Right there with ya brother.
*Dear god I think hell just froze over, an Army man just agreed with a Marine* :D
I kid I kid!
Report Post »Halloween
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 8:48pmIt’s not the bullet with your name on it that you have to be worried about, it’s the bullet that says; “To whom it may concern” on it that you should be concerned about.
Report Post »Mil-Dot
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 9:15am@ kickingback
Report Post »But you wouldn’t trust anybody else with one huh? Government trained goons only right? Get out of here man…..
In That Day
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:05pmStudy Russian Martial Art, Systema. See http://www.russianmartialart.com and find an instructor near you.
There are also tactics that might work:
If perp is advancing upon those who resist or flee, lie down with arms forward, belly down in greater surrender than those fleeing or otherwise making themselves a target. When perp passes you (a big if, but why wouldn’t he if you pose no immediate threat while perp is shooting others who are) then get up behind perp and take down.
If all in theater threw their cell phone at the perp’s face, this would have given a second or two to do something good.
If all in theater threw their shoes at the perp’s face, this would have given a second or two to do something good.
If everybody in theater read about the theater massacre that happened in Moscow, Russia… by terrorists… they would have been prepared with flashlights and guns.
If everybody in theater was taught what their God-given Natural Rights were, they would have been armed.
In Nevada, it is PERFECTLY LEGAL to carry concealed inside a theater, as it should be in every state.
As kids, socialistic public school taught it is bad to shout FIRE! in a crowded theater, sans fire. Better Natural Rights schools would teach: Don’t go into a dark theater unarmed, without lights or such personal protection as is prudent.
Underlying problem: SOCIALIST COLORADO LAWS making the fiat-ridiculous gun-free zone.
Report Post »KickinBack
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:15pmFor yours and everyone else’s convenience, please turn off all cell phones during the show. No talking please. Be sure to dispose of your trash in the proper reciprocals. In case of a crazed shooter, please be sure to throw your shoes at him. Thank you, and enjoy the show.
Report Post »Den-north
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 6:55pmThe theater used it‘s exemption under Colorado law by posting on it’s doors that guns were not allowed so any law abiding gun owner would not have taken his or her gun in with them. Me, I would never enter any business that does nor respect Colorado’s CCW laws and rules.
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:04pmUnless it’s a place with a metal detector and body searches, I will be armed. Sometimes heavily. If I have to defend myself or family in a place that does not allow guns, so be it.
I’ll fight it all the way, but in the end if I have to serve some time in jail, or pay a fine; I consider it the cost of survival.
My motto is: It’s better to beg for forgiveness, than ask for permission.
RANGER
Report Post »The Sergeant Major
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:38pm“It’s better to beg for forgiveness, than ask for permission” Isn’t that part of the Ranger Creed
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:30pmLol…if I had my way it would be.
Report Post »toiletclogga
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 5:27pmYou got that right Ranger! Arm yourself, become acquainted with your weapon, and aim at mass. Basic survival instincts kick in if you’re prepared.
Report Post »SeniorCitizen214
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:03pmThis guy speaks the truth; I employ his tactics all the time, just do it quietly. I am a veteran and have always known where the exits are, watch my surroundings looking for weirdoes.
Report Post »The shame about this tragedy is that it isn’t about guns it is that crazies always show up and figure a way to create chaos.
Politicians always capitalize on ways to protect us from unprotect able situations for their personal advancement. I remember when the daughter of a man killed a few years ago in a shootout in a Texas restaurant, speaking to the Senate and specifically Chuck Schumer. He was demanding for gun control and she said that even though I lost my Father we have guns to protect us from you and your type Mr. Schumer – that shut him up.
MittensKittens
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:15pmIt’s a grounded person like this that all people can take something of a lesson from, he’s right on the money.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:00pmThis is excellent advice. Take heed.
Report Post »face.chewer
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:58pmHow about laser pointers, do they work better or worse?
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:05pmWhy would you choose to call yourself “Face Chewer”?
Report Post »KickinBack
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:09pmToo small of a beam.
Report Post »peace maker
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:15pmLazer pointers woud not work well, you have to be pin point accurate to blind someone with a lazer, while a bright light will work like a flash bang. I teach Tactical Martial Arts for Law Enforcement and we work on surviving and controling these types of situations. Always be observant, prepared, and respond accordingly. If you are in the Utah area come and join us, or we (Urbansurvivors.com) can hold a self defense seminar for you. I want people to effectivly fight back, things could get worse.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:20pmBright white light will work the best.
Report Post »Thighmaster
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:27pmI agree it’s too small of a beam but in a dark theatre the attacker might think you have a laser on a weapon. Something I learned as a rescue diver, if someone is drowning and you can’t jump in with them throw everything you can. If nothing floats maybe they can climb out..
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 6:01pmI think the laser idea works best if it is part of the sight on your gun…..
Report Post »Shran-For-President
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 6:44pmLaser pointers must be aimed very carefully and are difficult to hold on target for any appreciable time. Flashlights are effective in even the shakiest hand. A tactical flashlight will blind and disorient the opponent for up to several seconds, and that is a lot of time in a shooter situation.
Report Post »Lt_Scrounge
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 7:36pmNot bright enough to cause enough damage to the retina or contraction of the IRIS. The purpose of the bright light is to cause an involuntary physiological reaction that incapacitates the shooter. While I would prefer to cause frontal lobe damage from inserting a copper clad lead object at high speed, a bright flashlight will at least reduce the shooters ability to focus, acquire targets, or aim properly. A high intensity strobe can have debilitating effects.
Report Post »vaughan
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:56pmNever in my life have I felt in danger in a theater…but now I will have second thoughts. Thanks for the heads-up. Be safe everyone.
Report Post »SanMoo
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:55pmThe tape of this “Joker” in the court room…..shows a pretty frail nut case. Why didn’t someone grab his legs and bring him down?…there must have been large guys in there who could have done that…I don’t think he would have expected someone attacking “him”. He probably would not have known how to manuver in all that gear he had on. And then ripping off his mask….so he would have had to deal with the tear gas. I know my brothers would have tried to do something…..I know them. I’m just saying….
Report Post »TurboCat
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 3:36amI think that the reason no one attacked him as you say is because everyone was surprised by this ambush. No one expected something like this in such an innocent place as a theater. And by the time people figured out what was going on (it takes some thought to process, you know), a lot of disoriented people had been shot. There was tear gas, it was dark, they panicked. It was planned by The Man With No Conscience for his own optimum benefit, as evil as that was.
Report Post »lefty5005
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:54pmThey speak of metal detectors in theaters. Wouldn’t have mattered in this case as he came in through the emergency exit. Perhaps alarm the emergency exits but even then it would not have helped. He was denied membership to a gun club. I wonder if he was planning on shooting up the gun club and had to change his mind after being denied. Haven’t heard anything more about his politics which mean he was probably a Democrat and voted for Obama.
Report Post »LameLiberals
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:06pmHe wasn’t denied yet. He applied to join the gun club and left his phone number on an application. The guy who owns the club called him and that creepy answering machine message the police talked about came on. It spooked the gun club owner who said if this guy calls or comes in, I will personally interview him.
I wonder what the outcome would be if the gun club owner had called (AND NEVER HEARD THAT PHONE MESSAGE) and Holmes picked up the phone and spoke to him and had come in for the mandatory interview everyone wanting to join has to pass. Would Holme’s weird deteriorating behavior have shown though during this interview?
What was so creepy about that phone message that made the hair rise on the back of the neck of both the police and this gun club owner when both called at different times.
Report Post »Thighmaster
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:54pmOK I read the full post on the other site and while it was good it failed to mention the tear gas. I’d like to know how one deals with that little detail. You have to close your eyes and you can’t see to use your flashlight….
Report Post »Shran-For-President
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 7:00pmYou are wrong for multiple reasons: the gas was used in a large area and would be weakened by the sheer volume of air it is trying to occupy. Proof of this is – even though they were gassed, the movie patrons were able to see to find the exits – so they were obviously not blinded. Also, tear gas causes tears, not blindness. Finally, the seats are blocking/slowing the spread of the gas around the floor area so the air is clearer there. As a result, and despite the gas, someone with a firearm could crouch low in a defensive position in clearer air and get a good shot off at the bad guy’s head (yes, it is effective even if it hits his ballistic helmet – like getting hit with a baseball bat). Plus, since you are crouching to shoot and aiming high, any missed shot by you would be aimed above the heads of any innocent people in the area.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:54pmWhen you go into a restaurant, do you just plop down and work your i-pad unaware of that certain person? Or do you assess who is there and the atmosphere of the crowd?
Report Post »What would you do if a fight broke out with weapons, where would you go or what would you do? Do you know exactly where all the exits are? Where would you hide or conceal yourself and your family?
scuba13
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:02pmIt’s called situational awareness. I always practice it.
Report Post »Mikev5
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:18pmGood question I myself have always been an observer type of person no matter where I go I spend a few seconds evaluating were I am and who is around me what the feel of the place is and look for odd looking or odd acting people or groups of people especially large groups of people. Being aware of your surroundings at all times can save your life and maybe a few near you I think most hero’s are always aware of their surroundings that is one thing that makes them hero’s. This world is screwed up now we all need to be at our best and awake to our suroundings.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:22pmSame here scuba13.
Report Post »Mikev5
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:23pmsituational awareness… I need to remember that.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:09pmI always sit with my back against the wall where I can see the whole room.
Report Post »battles
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:53pmExcellent! Wild Bill Hickok was the one who taught me the lesson to always sit with my back to a wall. I have always done this.
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:51pmI really liked his advice. I will heed it as best I can.
Report Post »SavvyCowboy
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:49pmBrandon Webb offers great words of wisdom and everyone who has no military trainig whatsoever should read/subscribe to his blog and learn as much as possible from this expert. Like Webb I also combat park and think about EER (escape & evasion routes) at every venue – sad we live in times like this but if you fail to plan then you’ve planned to fail (or in this tragic case, die).
One last thought – if someone in that theatre would’ve been (legally) “packing”, the news story may be a totally different story – thus we need a national concealed weapons permit (one standard, one training, one license – nationwide) so LAWFUL citizens can protect themselves, the ones they love and the public who choose not to carry.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:52pmWe have a national Concealed Weapons Permit. It’s called the 2nd Amendment.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:11pm@ROTHBARDIAN_IN_THE_CLEVE Indeed we do and the progressives and other communist pigs in our government have been trying to repeal that right for over a century.I still contend that every ‘gun law’ passed since the second amendment is unconstitutional since there’s no authority given to congress that allows them to ban the sale or ownership of firearms.Nothing that says we need a permit from government or anyone else for that matter to own a firearm.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:26pm@Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve: Says it best.
Report Post »lketchum
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 4:01pm@Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Thank God and Amen that someone pointed this out. The U.S. Constitution simply “is”, no added requirements may be applied.
Imposing any restrictions like licensing, training, etc… are grossly unfair to the majority of citizens, because they are costly and time consuming. Most people do not have a week to attend such classes and have to be trained by fathers, uncles, brothers, sisters, etc… Beyond the very obvious is the not so obvious threat that is we let our elected leaders to start defining what our liberties are, we’ll lose every single one of them.
Report Post »AmericanFightingMan1
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:46pmGood advice by a man who knows. Awareness. As a parent, you should always be aware of your surroundings and know, beforehand, what you are prepared to do.
More advice: be physically fit. Don’t waffle. Be decisive. Knives are also great weapons. I too have concealed permit, but blindly shooting a firearm in a crowded theater is a very tough decision and not one to be made by the untrained. A knife, however, is safer in terms of collateral effects. As a father, my plan is to quickly instruct my wife and children and then I plan to go after the bad guy. With a knife if possible. Rush him. This is why you need to be in shape. Run low at him like a linebacker, take him out with a body hit and then use the knife to disable/destroy him, preferrably in the throat or eye.
Of course the chaos of the situation works to the bad guy’s advantage. He knows when he will strike; you don’t. So being aware, ready and fit is your best defense. Untrained people with handguns is not a great alternative. If a person is armed, shooting low to high is probably the best chance of not hitting an innocent person. And there is the chance that someone will mistake you for the bad guy. Fog of war. You have to think this stuff through.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:58pmGreat point on the “fog of war”. Additionally, I was thinking what I’d do, and it wasn‘t a given in my mind that I’d shoot. In a dark theater with that kind of chaos? You can’t just go squeezing off rounds. Unless you were 12 o’clock on the dude with the screen behind him you may not be able to get a shot even if you could identify him as the shooter. If you miss or the round passes through him it could easily hit a bystander.
I really think the only way would have been to close the distance as you point out.
Report Post »SanMoo
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:59pmSounds right to me! Again, I don’t think he could have moved very well with all the dumb stuff he had on his body….a good solid body hit would have surely taken him to the ground….and then ripping off the mask….He looks like such an idiot.
Report Post »lawrench
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:59pmI agree with you stating to be prepared. But you have to wonder would he (the criminal) would have even attempted to do this with the possibility of 20 weapons pointed at him? I doubt even a crazy person would have tempted fate in this way.
Report Post »AmericanFightingMan1
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:12pmThis is why weapons training is important. Anyone who has shot a weapon (a lot) knows it is very difficult to hit a moving target even in daylight. The key is to get situational awareness, see where his weapon orientation is, and then go when you have a flank or back approach.
Most of these whackos are lone gunmen. It would be very tough if he had backup (like Columbine). As a loner, he is focused on his targets to his 12 O’Clock. Men need to step up and take him out. Don’t rush him to his front. Side or back. Side or back. Side or back.
Once you have him down, VIOLENTLY disable him. The throat and eyes are primary targets. A knife does the job fast. If no knife, then get a knee on this throat and watch his hands. Use your weight to crush his throat.
Again, men have the primary responsibility in a just society to protect. Watch, seize the opportunity, and go. If the whacko swings your way, there should be another man approaching from the opposite side. This is how we rely on one another.
Report Post »DouglassFiller
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:44pmThe movie was a gun-free zone, so most ccw‘s would have respected the theater’s wish. The flashlight/strobe is a really good idea.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:51pmI don’t know. Seems if I was the shooter and someone shined a light at me and I lost my night vision and the only thing I could see was this light….maybe I’d just shoot the light. Just sayin’.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:54pmAnd a pistol ain’t doing crap to body armor.
Report Post »lawrench
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:56pmThe problem we have in this country is that we all think we are safe from criminals ( like the one in Aurora). We as citizens do not pay attention to our environment or practice awareness. I am not saying it would have worked for anyone in this case, but being aware prepares you for a quick escape or evasion. When I took my class for my Permit to Carry, the instructor told us that we need to be aware of our environment at all times. We do not teach this type of stuff in schools or in life until it is too late.
Report Post »lawrench
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:04pm@ Swampy
Report Post »I am tired of people thinking body armor is like a shield that will not allow damage to the user. Anyone will tell you, body armor will stop a bullet from penetration, but you will feel it and in some cases you will go down in pain. Ask any soldier about body armor, they may just show you the bruises from being hit with body armor on.
Best_Patriot
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:17pmIt’s a good thing the theater is “gun free.” The last thing anyone needed was to have a bunch of frightened movie-goers firing off shots in the dark.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:29pm@sWampy: It depends on the pistol and the armor.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:44pmI know its different seeing as how everyone is an untrained civilian, but the idea is to get out of the kill zone. The worst place to be is 10 to 50 meters in front of the dude with the rifle. I know it’s counter-intuitive, but we were always taught to rush the ambush in a situation like this. Take the initiative, and exit the kill zone in the most hasty and effective manner. Rifles kinda suck in CQB. I know it’s all hindsight 20/20 and it isn’t a war scenario, and the flight/fight response is what it is and just one dude rushes it doesn’t work…but, I bet dollars to donuts he doesn’t react effectively to that response.
Report Post »Lt_Scrounge
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 8:01pmInside of 10 yards, the guy with the knife has the advantage over the guy with the rifle. If he can clear that distance fast enough, he can put one hand on the weapon and redirect the muzzle while shoving the knife into the shooter as hard and as fast as possible. Most body armor isn’t rated to stop a knife, especially one with either a spear point or tanto point tip. While a knife that would be considered effective is illegal in many locales, smaller ones can still prove effective, especially when targeting areas like wrists, throats, eye sockets or arm pits. (Don’t laugh, a knife shoved into the arm pit will hit both a nerve bundle AND a major artery. Just aim upwards towards the shoulder joint.
Report Post »MeteoricLimbo
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:42pmWasp spray is pretty effective from what I have heard. True, a gas mask would hinder it.
Report Post »I had a rattlesnake in the yard last year and sprayed it with the stuff from about 25 feet away and it sure worked on a reptile.
MeteoricLimbo
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:48pmplease don’t misconstrue that to think you should spray an armed goon with wasp spray.
Report Post »banjarmon
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:41pmBrandon Webb, Thank you SIR for serving Our country and Thank you for the Advice!!!
Report Post »stage9
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:47pmWhen Jack the Ripper left a gory trail of victims, the community reacted with just as much fear and trepidation, but no one sought to outlaw knives.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:40pmWherever you go, always be aware of your surroundings.
Report Post »Who is there, what is going on? If it does not look or feel right, get out of the area.
Always keep considering where the exits are to make your way out with as little confusion as possible.
Locate your shelter positions.
Do not get caught unaware, be alert, Always.
PATTY HENRY
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:50pmOn the EXIT DOORS: Seems to me that the Theatre would have had some type of silent alarm to let the box office/manager know that rear door was opened – before the film was ended. Or the lock was
taped over. There is NO reason for the exit door to be opened before or during the movie.
ALSO: ANYONE seeing anyone go out the EXIT before the movie is over… Tell the USHER. OR people coming in. not cool.
GOD BLESS those PEOPLE effected by this act of this brat in CO.
Report Post »brntout
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:39pmSorry,hindsight is always 20-20. Have had so many survival courses, I’m waiting for the big payoff. Number1,Why is there not an alarm attatched to the exit door,hmmm? Second why if there are so many cops watching the place, they would not be stationed at the exit doors? 3‘d I’m already dead(because I couldn’t conceal and carry inside because of a stupid sign that said no guns allowed) and that stopped it how?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 9:25amCarry in anyway. I’d rather be told to not come back [if they even notice it] than be another dead victim.
Report Post »WillG
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:38pmI suggest everyone read this and the full post before mentioned.
Report Post »dwmcalister
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 2:37pmI carried 2 flashlights for my two trips to Israel last year and felt just fine. This is great advice when you either can not, or will not carry a firearm.
Report Post »Meyvn
Posted on July 23, 2012 at 3:27pmNod.
Report Post »