US

Gay Couples Suing NJ to Force State to Recognize Same-Sex Marriage

Gay Couples Suing NJ to Force State to Recognize Same Sex MarriageTRENTON, N.J. (The Blaze/AP) — Seven gay and lesbian New Jersey couples, along with many of their children, are going to court to try to force the state to recognize gay marriage.

The families say in their legal complaint that the state’s civil union law designed to give gay couples the same legal protections as married couples has not fulfilled that promise.

One man says he was denied being able to make urgent medical decisions for his partner. Another saw his partner and children’s health insurance canceled by a skeptical auditor. One woman had to jump through legal hoops to adopt the baby of her civil union.

Along with the gay advocacy groups Garden State Equality and Lambda Legal, the couples planned to announce details of the lawsuit on Wednesday. The advocacy groups provided a copy to The Associated Press on the condition that no details be published before Wednesday morning.

The lawsuit, to be filed in state court, comes less than a week after New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed a law allowing gay marriage in that neighboring state. But it’s the latest step in a nine-year legal battle in New Jersey.

States afford gay couples a hodgepodge of rights. New Jersey is one of seven states that offer the same legal protections of marriage, but call it either civil unions or domestic partnerships. Once New York’s new law takes effect next month, six states and Washington D.C. will make full marriage available to gays. Another state recognizes gay marriages entered into elsewhere and three offer some legal protections for gay couples. But 41 have laws or constitutional amendments barring gay marriage.

New Jersey’s civil union law is cast as the villain in the suit.

“The separate and inherently unequal statutory scheme singles out lesbians and gay men for inferior treatment on the basis of their sexual orientation and sex and also has a profoundly stigmatizing effect on them, their children and other lesbian and gay New Jerseyans,” the claim says.

The legal filing tells the stories of seven couples – two of whom previously sued for the right to marry – and the problems they say they’ve faced since the state began offering civil unions in 2007.

Their lawyer, Lambda Legal’s Hayley Gorenberg, said most people in places like medical offices don’t want to discriminate against them, but don’t understand the rights conferred through civil unions.

“People are not badly inclined toward them,” she said in an interview Tuesday. “They are just flummoxed” by the civil union requirements.

Tom Davidson and Keith Heimann, of Shrewsbury, have been a couple for 24 years and have two adopted daughters. Heimann has health insurance for the family through his teaching job at Brookdale Communuity College, but says it was canceled for Davidson and the girls for months when a state-hired auditor questioned whether their civil union was legal.

Elena Quinones says she and her partner, Liz, spent about $10,000 for Liz to adopt their son Ian when Elena gave birth to him two years ago. And the Phillipsburg couple always travels with a binder that includes his birth certificate, their civil union certificate and other documents so that they can prove their relationship in places like doctors’ offices. “We’re still forced to justify ourselves,” she said in an interview.

If they were married, she said, those problems would be gone. “When you say you’re married, it’s universal,” she said. “You say `civil union,‘ it’s like you’re speaking another language.”

Last year, John Grant of Asbury Park was nearly killed when he was hit by a car. His partner, Danny Weiss, said hospital staff did not understand what a civil union meant and summoned Grant’s sister from Delaware to make care decisions that Weiss should have been able to make.

Speaking on the radio station New Jersey 101.5 Tuesday, Gov. Chris Christie said the state would defend the civil union law. He also said he is willing to improve it if it needs more protections.

“I don’t want same-sex couples to be deprived of legal rights,” he said, adding, “Marriage is an institution that has centuries-old implications in both religious and cultural institutions. I believe it should remain between one man and one woman.”

The IBTimes also quotes Christie as saying that New Jersey will not follow New York’s lead:

“In our state, we’re going to continue to pursue civil unions,” Christie said. “I am not a fan of same-sex marriage. It’s not something I support. I wouldn’t sign a bill like the one that was in New York.”

Len Deo, president of the New Jersey Family Policy Council, said he does not believe that judges will agree that gay couples face discrimination. He says only 12 of formal civil rights complaints have been filed by the more than 5,400 couples who have been joined in civil unions.

“Every person in the state of New Jersey has a right to marry a person of the opposite sex,” he said. “The Legislature has decided that if you reject that and want to have a relationship with a person of the same sex – we are going to call two men or two women civil unions.”

The civil unions law was enacted a few months after New Jersey’s top court in late 2006 ordered the state to extend to gay couples the legal rights and protections that married couples receive. Lawmakers stopped short of recognizing same-sex marriages, which at that point were legal only in Massachusetts.

Gay rights groups pledged to push for full marriage rights and constantly pointed out the shortcomings of the law and the way it was carried out.

They mounted a major push to get a same-sex marriage law passed by the beginning of 2010, before Christie, a Republican who opposes gay marriage, replaced Democrat Jon Corzine as governor. But the advocates, opposed by social conservative groups and the state’s Roman Catholic bishops, could not quite muster the votes to pass it.

Gay rights groups tried to get the state Supreme Court to take up the original case again last year, but the court said no, setting up the latest new lawsuit.

This month, Democratic state Senate President Stephen Sweeney apologized for abstaining on the gay-marriage vote. He said he was doing what was politically expedient rather than what was right.

Comments (115)

1 2
  • Darezon
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 3:50pm

    Look at all the intelligence in these posts!! I am astounded most of you even managed to string together two sentences. Good job on that by the way.

    Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 6:02pm

      I’ve noticed a lot of intelligence in the posts, except for yours…let me guess you must be a democrat!! LOL

      Report Post » joe1234  
  • godhead
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 3:24pm

    Face it, folks, you’re trailing the play. Equal rights for gays is inevitable. It’s what America is all about. I know you don’t like it. It makes you feel queasy, just like we feel queasy that dude from Montgomery Gentry shoots bears in a cage. That’s not manly. But hey, if Dick Cheney can do it with quail, AND shoot his friend in the face, I guess we have to accept the freakiness of others.

    Pull!

    Report Post »  
    • Homo_Erectus
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 5:13pm

      Cheney has a 120% lesbian daughter and supports Gay marriage. LOL

      (Pull)

      Report Post » MONICNE  
  • DallyWama
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 2:25pm

    It was never about **** marriage, but rather, forcing society to accept poor life choices..

    Report Post »  
  • melving
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 2:14pm

    As before, if you decide to be Gay, you are commiting a sin, it is in the Bible, so read it for your gay self. You will stand before God just as I will, one day, and be judged!!
    Genesis 1, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, 1 Corinthians 6, 1 Timothy 1…READ IT !!!

    Report Post » melving  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:45pm

      do you apply EVERY teaching in each of the books you mentioned to your own life? How about the rest of them?

      if not, why not? Please be specific.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
  • affinnity
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:27pm

    Gay political groups have only one true purpose – social strife.

    Report Post » affinnity  
  • Uechi
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:25pm

    Mariage is between a man and a women not same sex couple. I don’t care what these perverts do in the privacy of there bedroom/s but the sacriment of marriage I think not.

    Report Post »  
  • tarpon
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:20pm

    Well now we know why they don’t like to be called queers anymore.

    Report Post »  
  • bob11123
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:10pm

    Waaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

    Report Post »  
  • becauseitmatters
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:10pm

    I don’t believe in “redefining” marriage. I could understand letting them have “civil unions”. So now we are letting the government step in the church’s domain. I thought they wanted separation from church and state. The separation of church and state was to keep the government from telling churches what they could do. How sad for our country.

    Report Post »  
  • GMAUEL
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:05pm

    The government has no right to impose an non-natural law definition of marriage
    on the people. Marriage is inherently male and female based on biology. Marriage
    is mating ritual. Only the a male and female can mate. Any other definition would
    be more of a philisophical definition. In other words theology not biology. This would
    violate the first amendment guarentee of freedom from government imposed doctrine.
    I call it the Church of Non-Gender. This is just not reality.

    Report Post »  
  • DNoyce
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:50pm

    Once again, we normal people and our way of life are under attack from the sick thinking, aberrant acting homosexual community. They want so much to feel normal, like heterosexuals, that they try to steal our institutions.

    Report Post »  
  • Blackiswhite Imperial Consigliere
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:49pm

    I’m sure it never occurred to them to sue the people/entities who didn’t correctly apply the current law…

    Report Post »  
  • nomercy63
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:43pm

    Sue the state to force the people to accept a lifestyle choice??Now there is freedom for you!!!

    Report Post »  
  • Ghandi was a Republican
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:41pm

    Who will defend Marriage for hetrosexuals? If it is no different than “Gay” marriage- it’s not “marriage”! If you have to explain to someone whether your wife is a man or a woman- IT’S NOT MARRIAGE!

    Report Post » Ghandi was a Republican  
  • jedi.kep
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:41pm

    It’s not an issue of being happy, or even the moral issues. The fact that gays want to FORCE me to call it marriage is where I draw the line. Call it what it is: Civil Union, GAY marriage, or Domestic Partnership. What you do in your bedroom is your business and your right to choose, BUT when you start forcing me to accept it and forcing me to call it marriage then we are going to have some problems. If you want the tax break, have at it. If you want the visitation rights in the hospital, have at it.

    Report Post » jedi.kep  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:43pm

      how exactly will you be required to accept that two gays are married because NY says they are? what specific impact on your life will occur? how will you be coerced in any way? please be specific.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • joe1234
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 6:01pm

      tammy: why don’t you ask the catholic charities in MA who had their religious liberty taken away by the fascist gays? same with the doctor in CA, or the photographer in NM?

      why don’t you get a clue, while you are at it?

      Report Post » joe1234  
  • RomanCatholic99
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:40pm

    If this pass All of the Conserivtes in New Jersy should sue the State to reconize Holy Matriome in the religes sence of the word. Sorry for the poor spelling I was in a rush.

    Report Post »  
  • TEIN
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:40pm

    Then change the civil union laws, don’t redifine marraige,,,,

    Report Post »  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:35pm

      Just serious enforcement would likely be enough. the fault here ultimately is not with the law, or with New Jersey, but with obstinate bigots and greedy exploiters who seek to evade obeying the law. in the process, they borrow trouble for themselves because they help make the case for a more serious law.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
  • bcwoodz
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:33pm

    OK, if states have to recognize marraige laws passed in other states, let’s carry that over to gun laws. Conceal carry permit from AZ? OK in New York. Something tells me that the left wouldn’t go for that.

    Report Post »  
    • PatrioticAmericanDad
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:44pm

      BCWOODZ
      You are correct, connecting the dots is hard to do for the left. They depend on an accepted double standard. As far as I am concerned every citizen should be required to own and maintain a firearm like certain counties in Georgia.

      Report Post » PatrioticAmericanDad  
    • Ghandi was a Republican
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:26pm

      And THAT’S an actual RIGHTS issue! Not some manufactured imperative that takes marriage away from the other 90%!

      Report Post » Ghandi was a Republican  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:33pm

      I completely agree.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
  • joe1234
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:32pm

    the gays in their starched brown shirts and jack-boots are on the march.

    Report Post » joe1234  
    • ZAP
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:35pm

      and browned out underwear

      Report Post » ZAP  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:32pm

      LOLZ! For realsies? 98% of the people* are trying to limit the liberties of 2% of the people and it’s the 2% who are brownshirts?

      what color is the sky in your world?

      *thankfully, not all of the 98% wish to be oppressors, or they’d probably have locked the gays in camps by now.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • joe1234
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 6:00pm

      tammy you and your gay allies sure do want to be the oppressors though don’t you now? why would NY have to put in exemptions for religious liberty unless gay marriage will take away those rights from people who disagree?? hmmm?

      oh don‘t worry I know you can’t answer the question…oh and you do know Hitler and the nazis started out as a small movement…and using lies and deceit took power…sound familiar?

      Report Post » joe1234  
  • regressive_democrat
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:30pm

    Pay your protection money to the Gay Mafia™

    Report Post »  
    • Gonzo
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:41pm

      “One woman had to jump through legal hoops to adopt the baby of her civil union.”…and rightfully so lady. Why do we let 2% of the population wag the dog on the other 98%? Gays create more ill will towards themselves with all these demands than they would otherwise face.

      Report Post » Gonzo  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:30pm

      Right Gonzo, why not just shut up and take it, eh? I’m sure the Jews received similar advice in the thirties. It’s a lot more puzzling why the 98% are so obsessed with keeping down a mere 2% than it is why the 2% wouldn’t much like that treatment.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • Homo_Erectus
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:48pm

      Its more like 14 1/2 % than two percent. Just saying it.

      Report Post » MONICNE  
  • Young_Conservative
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:29pm

    Isn’t this why Sodom and Gomorrah was burned into oblivion? Churchill was right…. “Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.”

    Report Post »  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:27pm

      have you ever noticed god hasn’t burned any city since n some 4,000 years or so? you do realize many of them were quite open to homosexual behavior (consider Sparta where being a “real man” worthy of the army came with having a young male lover) – yet no fire from heaven, why is that?

      or, if that’s not enough – consider the countries around the world that you KILL YOU for the heinous crime of being a Christian – they do it every day. Any fire on them?

      or is it your opinion that god thinks even less of gays than he does of killing Christians in the name of a false God?

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • turkey13
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 6:53pm

      Hey folks, don’t get excited about the queers. Just start helping these judges that want Sharia law. The queers are so dumb that they embrace the muslim brotherhood. Once Sharia law is a fact the Imans will have all the queers stoned to death. They will then go after all the sluts that refuse to wear a burka. Then they wi;ll go after all the politicians and their greed. We as Americans can start from scratch like our forefathers.

      Report Post »  
  • hi
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:28pm

    I love being married. 21years. Still madly in love.

    The problem is that they will force our ministers who know that God despises sodomy to marry them. They will force Christians to take photos of their weddings or make wedding cakes for them. That’s the problem. They don’t want to get married, they want to shut down the church and force their nastiness on us.

    Ministers thrown in jail for hate speech(saying homosexuality is a sin) is happening all over the world.

    They can easily get a power of atty in order to see their lusted ones in the hospital.

    Report Post » hi  
    • cessna152
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:40pm

      Yes… whenever we hear “it’s their right“ and society gives them and ”inch” there is a completely NEW agenda behind their disingenuous propaganda. Just another Anti-God propaganda because the lefties fear God more than anything…. which is Ironic,BTW.

      Report Post » cessna152  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:24pm

      by all means, cite mean ONE case of a minister forced to marry an interracial couple after those relationships were legalized.

      Just one.

      Absent that, I suggest you quit listening to the shallow scare tactics designed to manipulate you into saying stupid things.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
  • ZAP
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:27pm

    NO,to be gay is a perverted choice

    Report Post » ZAP  
  • KickinBack
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:22pm

    To be gay is a lifestyle choice.

    Report Post » KickinBack  
    • banjarmon
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:30pm

      G.A.Y…Got Aids Yet??

      Report Post » banjarmon  
    • Bluefish49
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:30pm

      Hey Kickinback…..change your UN to Bendenover….

      Report Post »  
    • KickinBack
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:00pm

      @Banjarmon
      lol! Haven’t heard that one yet.

      @Bluefish
      Your comment reminded me of my favorite song from Evil Dead the Musical…”What the Fu** was that??”

      Report Post » KickinBack  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:17pm

      spoken as one who never had to deal with such attractions. The voice of experience is probably more authoritative in these situations.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • MIBUGNU2
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 6:07pm

      Gawd, these people going push this SHI** from State to State..
      I say stay in SF and NY Cesspools, STAY AWAY from AZ….

      Report Post » MIBUGNU2  
    • MIBUGNU2
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 6:13pm

      Good Luck, getting Christy to sign that one !!

      Report Post » MIBUGNU2  
  • Bluefish49
    Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:18pm

    Oh for crying out loud….let them get married and be as misserable as the rest of us married folks. Why should they be happy?

    Report Post »  
    • banjarmon
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:26pm

      Look on the bright side…civil unions of queer people wont produce more of their ilk!
      They will die with out offspring.

      Report Post » banjarmon  
    • KickinBack
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:26pm

      @Bluefish

      “Why should they be happy?”
      ——————————————-
      Because they are gay. (which means to be happy)

      Report Post » KickinBack  
    • regressive_democrat
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:31pm

      They don’t need to have offspring. The Gay Mafia™ actively recruits new members.

      Report Post »  
    • cessna152
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:31pm

      This only has to do with one thing… if they are recognized as “legally married” the schools will be forced to teach on it. Means pushing agendas, then pushing for special rights above traditional married couples and finally forcing the Churches to marry them so they can tie up Churches in legal battles and fighting between members.

      Marriage should NOT be recognized by the government… all marriages. That is between God, Church and couples. Period!! Keep pushing this bs gays because society is FED up with you…

      Report Post » cessna152  
    • smithclar3nc3
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:45pm

      Gays and lesbians are costing the State of New Jersey hundreds of millions of dollars to defend itself. All you none gays think about that when your taxes are raised.

      Report Post »  
    • Mgindi26
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:49pm

      It’s very simple. Words have meaning. The **** sexual agenda is to make their lifestyle normal which it is not. By attempting to call their relationships marriages they are trying to normalize their deviant lifestyle. Whether you decide to believe in the bible, which clearly defines homosexuality as an abomination, or you are secular and believe in darwin and natural selection (homosexuals would cease to exist as they don’t have offspring and are thus not the fittest. It’s time we go back to the truth that homosexuality is abnormal. And just as we wouldn’t call a union between a man and his dog marriage, or a father and daughter union a marriage, we don’t call 2 homosexuals who live together marriage. Their sexuality does not give them special rights and it does not change the definition of words such as calling their relationship marriage.
      This is an attempt to change society and we must say enough.
      Also it is illegal in a sense because there can be no law that causes a religion to not be able to practice. And if homosexual marriage becomes a law and a “civil right” then churches and jewish and moslem congregations will be forced to recognize them.
      If you want to ve gay keep it in your bedroom, the same way normal people keep their sexuality in the bedroom. You can’t force society to accept your deviancy as normal.
      Enough is enough!

      Report Post »  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:54pm

      Listen and listen well, the act of homosexuality is an abomination before the heavens themselves, so it is written. Like so many other wrongs in this country going on, I will no longer stand aside about it and remain my peace for the sake of peace; fine, the people wanted the ‘civil unions’ and have them, let that be the end of it.

      These nutjobs are just seeking to force the moral destruction of the country onto all of us, wheather we wish it or not. I am at the limit of seeing what is wrong going on, and when taking a stand not being called anything save evil incarnate.

      Fine, then let them call me what they wish.

      They will answer for their own deeds, and choices, so I shall keep peacefully working for what is right and just before the eyes of the Lord.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • hauschild
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:08pm

      The parents of these losers must be so proud.

      Report Post »  
    • USAMEDIC3008
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:20pm

      If he can keep going,He could become a
      Masterdebater someday

      Report Post » USAMEDIC3008  
    • Dale
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:25pm

      “Seven gay and lesbian New Jersey couples, along with many of their children, are going to court to try to force the state to recognize gay marriage.”
      —————-
      Anyone care to explain this sentence to me.

      Report Post » Dale  
    • TomFerrari
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:33pm

      @snow – YES, we are indeed entitled to believe what God says.
      However, that is OUR religion.
      They need to be free to live their lives as they see fit.
      We DO need to keep our schools from teaching our children things that are against our religions – that is why we need LOCAL control of our schools – not federal control.
      But that is a separate issue.

      FREEDOM is for EVERYONE.

      “…one nation, under God, with LIBERTY and justice FOR ALL.”

      I don’t want them telling me whether I can pray at a funeral or in a speech or in a pulpit.
      I dont’ want them telling me what to teach my children – that‘s why I dont’ want THEM teaching my children – I want to pick my children’s teacher and the cirriculum.
      I also am willing to recognize other people’s right to live THEIR lives as THEY see fit, just as I DEMAND they let me live MY LIFE as I SEE FIT.

      It’s called “FREEDOM,” and it made America GREAT!

      Report Post » TomFerrari  
    • Pastor Ray
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:51pm

      banjarmon
      You‘re partly right but you’re mostly wrong…If the Filthy QUEERS would stay to themselves they can just die out and go to HELL…BUT they’ve tried to trap and ensnare my Kids and Grandkids and I will not stand for that or their FILTH! Their FREEDOM ends where my NOSE starts! So, crawl back into filthy hole and die!

      Report Post » Pastor Ray  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 1:54pm

      @TomFerrari:

      Indeed we are a nation of Freedom for All.

      That is why I mentioned taking a peaceful stand against the immorality this group pesonifies. Let them make their statements and case, yet it should not be forced down my own throat by some activist judges and such in the nation…I will follow the path of Ghandi and MLK in change through peaceful and non violent means.

      The people will make the ultimate choices via the legislature and public debate. The line is now drawn in the sand for me. This is where I say, no more.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • sWampy
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 2:00pm

      @banjarmon@ yes it will, they will adopt kids, those kids will be abused. There is no gay gene, it’s 99.9999999% environmental, I spent 6 years working for child protective services in Florida, and 4 years working for the youth court system in Mississippi, I’ve witnessed more abuse than any 100 people should have to see in their lifetime, accepting abnormal as normal is a grave mistake that will have grave consequences in years to come.

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 2:03pm

      banjarmon
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:26pm
      Look on the bright side…civil unions of queer people wont produce more of their ilk!
      They will die with out offspring.
      )_______________________________________________________
      The problem with your logic is that God keeps on creating gay babies born of straight couple.

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 2:09pm

      Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 12:54pm
      Listen and listen well, the act of homosexuality is an abomination before the heavens themselves, so it is written.
      ___________________________________________________________
      So is eating shell fish, wearing cloth made of cotton and wool, tattoos, make-up, pork or other unclean beasts,

      While according to the same bible honor killing, slavery, captial punishment for non-violent offenses, etc. are A-Okay.

      Report Post »  
    • RedJeepBabe
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 2:39pm

      Marriage as defined is between a man and a woman. Civil union, or some such title can be their “marriage”. Give them the rights they want but never, never call it marriage.

      Report Post » RedJeepBabe  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 3:31pm

      once again, say the word “gay” and lots of folks start parking their brains at the door:

      @Banjarmon – how come they haven‘t died out centuries ago if that’s how it works?

      @Regressive – i could try to reason with you and tell you that the fact is that very very few “convert” and those are fetishist, just like all the crazy fetishes heteros get into. But since i know you are not likely to listen to a statement of fact, let me appeal to reason – IF in fact gays are “recruited” then how do you explain that, despite being FAR more acceptable now than it was 40 years ago, the percentage of the population which is Gay remains very constant? Shouldn’t recruiting be much more effective than that?

      @Cessna – why would you assume that schools are forbidden from mentioning “civil unions”? The reason that the schools start early discussing this sort of thing is not to “recruit” or to sexualize them but because when too many of the adults in our society STILL communicate the idea that gays are lesser people, those teens who turn out to be gay are the victims of abuse by many of their peers. The schools are trying to head that off.

      @Smith – it doesn’t cost “hundred of millions” if you give them what they are entitled to. But if you really really don’t want to fight over marriage, spend some of that to MAKE people respect the CUs instead of letting them play games.

      (more to come)

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 3:41pm

      @MGINDI26 – “Natural selection” is a dodge – all sorts of birth defects are not conducive to reproduction yet they keep happening. “Darwinism” doesn’t eliminate these because they are not genetic. Homosexuality is not “normal” in the statistical sense, nor is being born blind – but it IS “natural” in the sense that it’s a condition that occurs in nature – like being born blind. And people continue to be born blind…or deaf…or with autism…or birthmarks…or violet eyes.

      I‘ll leave the semantic and theological debates for another post as i’ve already demonstrated the foolishness of those claims in other threads a dozen times or more.

      I‘ve said this before too but I’ll repeat it for you: when the Supreme court, in the Loving case, struck down laws against interracial marriage (which some objected to on religious grounds) the same complaint was heard but NOT ONCE in over 40 years has any church or minister of any religion been forced to recognize or officiate an interracial marriage because of that decision. Learn from history.

      Finally (you are so full of wrong ideas it’s hard to keep up with you) gays keep their stuff in the bedroom to EXACTLY the same degree as heterosexuals do. Have you ever witness anyone having sex in public? Likely not but if you have it might have been either homosexual or hetero – but short of that what have you seen of “being gay” in public? Hand holding? kissing? Arms around? guess what? hetero people do all the exact sam

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 3:48pm

      @Snowleopard – please tell us, how many other unbilbical “abominations” have you dedicated so much passion to opposing? how much effort have you put into, say, pre-marital sex? In fact, since the word “abomination” is found in Leviticus – how’s your crusade against sex with women during their period going? how’s the anti-pork battle coming along? You can cloth your bias (bigotry?) in the robes of religion all you want but the only people you are fooling are those who already agree with you.

      Gays have been getting married in religious ceremonies for over 40 years and yet hetero marriages go right on doing what they were doing – the thing that is weakling the institution of marriage (and therefore, in your thesis, society in general) is the behavior of HETEROSEXUALS in (and out of) marriage.When homosexuals are under 3% of the population and heteros are over 97% of the population – and 50% of the hetero marriages end in divorce (and that‘s not counting the ones where adultery is going on that hasn’t been caught yet) then any fool can see that there is more damage done to the institution by the 48% than anything that the >3% can do.

      So, again i ask – hows your campaign against easy divorce coming along – surely your passion for the sanctity of marriage has motivated you to a committed effort?

      In any case, until we live in a theocracy your role is to work on these things in the private sector, not to ask the government to legislate doctrine.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • Dry_Drunk_GA
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 3:55pm

      They are Guaranteed to Never Get abortions! Better Record than Catholics! Better Record than Mormons! Only Equal to Christians with 100% NO ABORTION..

      Report Post » MONICNE  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 3:57pm

      @Pastor Ray – once again you provide a shining example of Christ’s love in your posts. i would wonder if your congregation knew how you conducted yourself here, if i could ever believe for half a second that any sane congregation would call a pastor who spoke as you do.

      Nevertheless, you are (of course) hopelessly ill-informed if you think you have straight offspring which can be recruited – despite the lies you have been told, no one CHOOSES to be a thing that so very many people (like you!) despise. It astonishes me that so many people don’t pause to consider that. why would anyone WANT to be the target of the sort of venom people like you spew out?

      you say there rights stop where your nose starts – maybe you ought to rethink where you stick your nose?

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • let us prey
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 3:59pm

      tammybeth aka agenda pusher
      going to court to try to force the state to recognize gay marriage.
      Force others to condone your lifestyle.
      Why dont you put some effort into stopping the government from highjacking our country.
      Selfish silly prog.

      Report Post » let us prey  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:05pm

      @swampy – is it your argument that all the abusers you witnessed – or even most of them – were gay? I live in MS too and i know for a fact that’s not remotely true. i do not deny that child sexual abuse can contribute to a variety of sexual dysfunctions in adulthood, among which is something that looks like homosexuality (as in a girl abused by a man who can’t trust men enough to be intimate with them)

      but i also know for a fact and from personal experience that children raised in the best of environments with NO exposure to any of the “nurture” issues so often cited still know they are gay/trans at an early age, often before they are “sexualized” at puberty at all. i knew i was trans when I was 8 years old and you couldn’t have constructed a more “normal” childhood if you’d tried. if I can be born trans (and i was) then a gay person can be born gay.

      is it genetic? No, likely not. Only lazy thinkers assume that the only way a condition can be present from birth is via a genetic defect. there are multitudes of “abnormal” conditions present from birth which are not genetic in nature.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:15pm

      @swampy and others –

      Consider:

      1. We know that birth defects (general term for abnormalities present from birth, not meant to imply “defectiveness”) occur. the often arises from various prenatal environment situations.

      2. We know that many of these affect the brain, and several others affect sexual characteristics.
      a. brain conditions such as autism
      b. there are several conditions which are as a group known as “intersex” conditions where some parts of the body are characteristic of males and some of females.

      3. We know the brain is the primary organ for sexual attraction and for gender identity.

      a brain abnormality which affects sexual attraction or gender identity is entirely logical.

      there’s even a very solid hypothesis for how this happens. We know, as a matter of scientific fact, that the pre-born child is subject to at least two major “hormone baths” which fix the child’s gender, one affecting the sexual organs and a separate one affecting the brain. it’s not a huge supposition to suggest that a malfunction in either of these can lead to orientation or gender identity issues.

      but, lazy thinkers will continue to cling to the “they ain’t found a gay gene!!!” canard to maintain the credibility of the threadbare robe they use to disguise their bigotry. Sooner or later, Christians of good conscience (and good sense) need to re-examine the false doctrine they’ve been taught so that the no longer need to believe pseudo-science nonsense to s

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:23pm

      @let us prey – you haven’t been paying attention (I’m shocked!) – i‘ve said multiple time on these boards i’m just fine with civil unions. the fact that i enjoy slapping down shallow and ignorant comments and trying to redeem thoughtful Christians away from this bigotry disguised as faith doesn‘t mean I’m in the “marriage or else” crowd.
      that includes pointing out that clinging to the word “marriage” as if it were sacred is nonsense.

      I‘ve not been shy in pointing out that I’ve a strong streak of libertarian and that “that government is best which governs least” is my guiding philosophy (which, by the way, includes the government NOT limiting the liberty of gays without cause). those among us who wish to exercise government power to limit liberty (as yourself) are poorly positioned to accuse others of “not wanting to reign in government”

      perhaps i should accuse YOU of being a “silly prog” since it is YOU who wish to have government power limit liberty without cause.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • JohnnyRaiden
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:42pm

      Tammy Beth is correct. Homosexuality is naturally occurring in multiple species. It‘s unnatural in the sense that gay couples can’t have children which is the primary goal of sex, reproduction. Generally, in mammals, homosexuality occurs to remove that from the gene pool since the instinct driven reaction isn‘t to kill and people don’t have a natural method of detecting disease or other bad traits like other mammals(Rats,mice, certain cats, and birds).

      I don’t not and will never support gay marriage, ever, but it’s pretty close to the same level as atheists getting married. Just because your a man and woman also doesn’t give you the right to marriage. With this in mind I’ve always backed taking the government out of marriage all together and giving EVERYONE civil unions and just having the definition of the union of 2 people……Or 12 if some people in Utah have a say in the matter lol

      Report Post »  
    • Homo_Erectus
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 4:45pm

      How would YOU feel if everyone had the ability to pursue happiness and you didn’t? The Gays will not get divorced, they do not have unwanted pregnancies, and they improve the neighborhoods. They are 15% of the country and they are everywhere you are.

      Report Post » MONICNE  
    • VanGrungy
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 5:29pm

      Watch the kids in the next 20 years or so…

      This is all about indoctrination at the micro level.. Macro indoctrination in schools just isn’t enough for the sick minded who wish to see themselves eradicated completely..

      As long as the queer insist on Nature being the culprit of their existence, I‘m sure they won’t mind when a DNA screen is invented for expectant mothers who want to know if their child needs to be aborted due to ‘homosexuality’…

      Uh oh… bye bye ‘master race’ queers.. you can thank your muslim buddies for being here to make sure you die.. Hey, it‘s not like we didn’t warn you..

      Maybe you just really really want those Bacha bazi..

      You had the Wandervogel before..

      Problem.. islam does not allow ‘love’ during man rape for jihad.. gay marriage will have to be banned..

      lol

      Report Post » VanGrungy  
    • let us prey
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 5:43pm

      @tammybeth
      You are also misinformed, and you enjoy putting words into peoples mouths. You draw conclusions using only your own thoughts, morals and standards. Ex: you say the word marriage is basically a joke and does not mean anything. It may not mean anyting to you, but it does to alot of other people. This is where you are the agenda pusher, because you dont care what others think or feel. Libertarian or not the role of government will not change if people like you dont change their focus.

      Report Post » let us prey  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on July 1, 2011 at 3:43am

      @Let us prey – you said:

      “You are also misinformed, and you enjoy putting words into peoples mouths.”

      Examples please? and see below…

      “You draw conclusions using only your own thoughts, morals and standards.”

      Um, proof? I’ve well explained the source of my conclusions and they are wide ranging and come from all sides of the issue.
      ”
      Ex: you say the word marriage is basically a joke…”

      I did? Please provide the direct quote and the specific post. you are stating a falsehood and doing the exact thing you accused me of doing.

      “…and does not mean anything.”

      Again, I did not. I said it is not a religious word, it is not a doctrinal word, it is not exclusive to Christianity or religion in general, and that any argument you make why it is can be undermined by a simple observation of history. The claims that the word is “sacred” and reserved only to the church fly in the fact of obvious, overwhelming, real world evidence.

      “It may not mean anyting to you, but it does to alot of other people.”

      Indeed it does – it means much to people married by a judge who do not believe in God, and it means much to gays married by a minister who do.

      “This is where you are the agenda pusher, because you dont care what others think or feel.”

      I’m not sensing YOUR care for what others – such as the two groups mentioned in my last sentence above – think or feel. As has been noted, your compassion begins and ends with those who behave in a manner yo

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • MIBUGNU2
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 6:10pm

      Seems that ‘ force ” is the operative word here.. State by State..

      Report Post » MIBUGNU2  
    • VanGrungy
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 6:45pm

      MIBUGNU2
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 6:10pm

      Seems that ‘ force ” is the operative word here.. State by State..

      ===================

      Turnabout is fair play… except in islam..

      Report Post » VanGrungy  
    • Mgindi26
      Posted on June 29, 2011 at 9:23pm

      @tammy
      You claim that hsu people keep thie r sexuality in the bedroom yet how do you explain that they define themselves by their sexualit? If it was kept in the bedroom they wouldn’t identify themselves by their sexual deviancy. You don’t see anyone else define themselves ib public forums our w with lobbying groups by their sexuality. You don’t see a hetero pride day parade. And if ones witnesses the hsu pride parade a parade specifically designed too advertise what people do in their bedrooms you see quite a bit of disgusting behavior.
      Now we also don’t have groups saying that blind people should have a special right to marry their guide dog, you don’t see groups demanding that we give drivers licenses to blind people. Now since you obviously by your comparison to blind and deaf and autistic people to gays you must consider gayness to be a handicap. And people with handicaps try to overcome their handicaps the blind don’t sue to get radios redefined as books, to haver hearing defined as seeing. Marriage has a definition man and wife. To use your comparison gay people should be trying to become straight as much as a blind man would want to see. Blind people don’t get drivers licenses unless they get sight. Gary people don’t get marriage licenses unless they are straight. Using your logic.
      As far as the bible goes, dietary laws or laws against being with a menstrual woman are for jews not gentiles. But sexual laws like homosexuality or incest are for everyone

      Report Post »  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on July 1, 2011 at 3:25am

      Simple. you define yourself by your sexuality as well, else you wouldn’t make such an issue of the distinction. YOU define them by their sexuality as well. Else you wouldn’t otherwise be able to tell me what it is they are supposedly “imposing” on you and the rest who share your views.

      “You don’t see anyone else define themselves ib public forums our w with lobbying groups by their sexuality.”

      Bull-****. EVERY lobbying group which opposes marriage equality does PRECISELY THAT. Else there is no factual way to distinguish what they are for and what they are against.

      “you don’t see groups demanding that we give drivers licenses to blind people.”

      Right. Because we have a LOGICAL and non-THEISTIC reason why they can’t drive.

      “Now since you obviously by your comparison to blind and deaf and autistic people to gays you must consider gayness to be a handicap.”

      Some do, but that’s not necessary. if a woman is born with a condition that renders her infertile for life, that is not considered a handicap, is it?

      “To use your comparison gay people should be trying to become straight as much as a blind man would want to see.”

      Does the Blind man “try to become a sighted man”? if there’s a treatment he takes it, otherwise he moves on. No gay person would have, upon discovering the condition, passed on a cure. They simply realize the situation and try to move on to a productive life in spite of it.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
    • Tammy_Beth
      Posted on July 1, 2011 at 3:28am

      @MGINDI26 – (last was to you as well) – you said:

      “As far as the bible goes, dietary laws or laws against being with a menstrual woman are for jews not gentiles. But sexual laws like homosexuality or incest are for everyone.”

      Indeed?

      HOW DO YOU KNOW?

      I know the right answer – but i want to see if you do.

      Report Post » Tammy_Beth  
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