Faith

Get Ready for a Bunch More Books on Whether Hell Is Real or Not

Rob Bell’s recent best-selling book, Love Wins, sparked huge controversy inside and outside the evangelical church, questioning if people actually go to hell.

And once the hip, outspoken pastor jimmied open the latch of orthodoxy, a tidal wave of criticism and heated debate poured in—on TV, on the Internet, and from other pulpits, calling Bell everything from a universalist to a heretic and even a hero. (One pastor even lost his job after supporting Bell.)

Now three follow-up books—fast tracked by Christian publishers to capitalize on the still-percolating Love Wins buzz—are joining the critical fray. Most prominent among them is Erasing Hell: What God said about eternity, and the things we made up by Francis Chan, also an evangelical pastor-author who’s quickly rising in the same ecclesiastical circles that Bell orbits.

Erasing Hell today sits at #7 on Amazon’s Christian Living category; #47 overall after its release last week. (The other two critiques—God Wins: Heaven, Hell, and Why the Good News is Better than Love Wins and Hell Is Real (but I Hate to Admit It)—release Aug. 1.)

Chan said that Love Wins upset a lot of his notions about hell and even led to sleepless nights over the issue—so he set out to study the theology of hell for himself.

In an extensive interview with ChristianityToday.com, Chan acknowledged that “maybe this was an opportunity to soften my stance on hell. I was hoping to find that in Scripture. And so when I didn’t it find it, it made me even more sick to my stomach.”

Chan, also the author of best-selling titles Forgotten God and Crazy Love, observed that “we have tried to block [hell] out of our minds. Yet because it’s written about so often in Scripture, I think God does want it on the forefront.”

Decidedly not in the camp of Christians who harshly went after Bell and Love Wins, Chan made it clear that “I really love Rob Bell. While he spurred on my thinking, [Erasing Hell] was not meant to be an attack on him. In my conversation with him, [Bell] said, ‘I don’t mean to be the final word on any of this. I’m hoping that others will continue the discussion.’ And so I guess that’s what I’m doing.”

Comments (235)

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  • I Love both Jesus and Israel
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:24pm

    To BOXY. Read the book of Revelation like I suggested. Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”

    Report Post » I Love both Jesus and Israel  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:39pm

      People write their own names with their work/labor, in the book of life, and people throw themselves into the sea of fire. Much like in a nation of Liberty, people write their own names in the book of success (if there was such a book).

      Report Post »  
    • snidley-whiplash
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 12:47am

      With obama as POTUS guess what. ……..we are in HELL right now.

      Report Post » snidley-whiplash  
    • Dustyluv
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 4:56am

      Snidely….You think this is hell? The best Nation on the planet still. Comparing hell to your comfey life…really?

      Does turn or burn mean anything more than a joke to people anymore? Hell is real and so many will find they went through life yucking it up and mocking God…

      Report Post »  
    • Polwatcher
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 5:50am

      If there is no heaven or hell with no sin or lack of it to put you there, then there was no need for redemption and our saviour made a wasted trip to earth. Obviously, this is not the case. Either this is an idea perpetrated by some lamebrains or it is just another well organized attack on Christianity.

      Report Post »  
    • Thomas
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 7:37am

      Eternity is not a segment of time but simply Un-relative Oneness with the Eternal One. There is no eternal place of torment but one day the Eternal Fire of the Truth is going to destroy all illusion along with those who decided to walk in it because it suite the lust and desire of self and they will cease to exist even in memory after judgment.

      Those who PRACTICE sin shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven.

      1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New American Standard Bible)

      9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not (B)inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

      Report Post » Thomas  
    • texasken
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:29pm

      Eliasim–

      I refer you to Ephesians 2, verses 8 and 9: “For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.”

      Report Post »  
    • texasken
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:38pm

      Thomas–

      Sorry, friend, you’ve twisted Scripture. That passage points out that we are all sinners, and that all unsaved sinners risk the fires of hell. I say, “unsaved sinners.” Jesus died so that we could be saved from that fate. John 5.24 says, “whoever hears My words and believes in Him who sent Me has eternal life, and shall not be condemned, but has passed from death into life.” Those whom God saves stay saved, and are forgiven of ALL their sins. They are as pure in the sight of the Father as though they had never sinned. I’m saved, and I’m a sinner. I sin every day, but I’m already forgiven of those sins because Christ paid my penalty by His death. It has nothing to do with the practice of sin.

      By the way, what in the world is “un-relative oneness”? Have you been reading too much Marianne Williamson or Sylvia Browne lately? Get your head in the game, man, and read the Gospel of John.

      Report Post »  
    • Thomas
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 4:32pm

      @texasken : First of all salvation does not override freewill and I said those who PRACTICE sin. There is a difference between sinning and PRACTICING sin. Un-relative Oneness is the absence of fragmentation of time. Heaven is not made up of molecules or atoms and neither is it a phantom zone so all that divides will cease to exist in Eternity. We will be One with the Eternal One, the imageless Spirit of Life our loving Father of which Jesus introduces us too. There is not other Eternal place other than Oneness with God.

      Report Post » Thomas  
    • Thomas
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 4:33pm

      There is no self in the Eternal.

      Report Post » Thomas  
    • Thomas
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 4:37pm

      Those who PRACTICE sin will eventually be given over to a depraved mind by God and will cease to see sin as sin and therefore will not confess. Where there is no confession neither is their forgiveness. This is even for those who were once saved and have stopped seeking. The theology of once saved always saved was a creation of those who actually wanted to be rid of God and to stop worrying about hell. There is not eternal place of torment called hell but not all will go to heaven either.

      Report Post » Thomas  
    • OKC08GT500
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 6:11pm

      Eliasim – We are saved by grace not by works and God knew before the foundation of the Earth who would accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Maranatha.

      Report Post » OKC08GT500  
    • Bluebonnet
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 6:22pm

      HELL YES, there’s a hell, and Satan is waiting for those who don’t love the Lord.

      Report Post »  
    • Bluebonnet
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 6:28pm

      Don’t need to read any of those stupid books, I already know there is Heaven & Hell. I’m hardly a goody 2 shoes, but I also know King David who messed up all the time, Loved God with all his heart and soul. So when I fail, I always ask God‘s forgiveness and know I’m forgiven and try to walk a more narrow walk. I read the bible and study the word, believe Jesus is God and my Saviour. Amen.

      Report Post »  
  • stage9
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:20pm

    It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death.

    The word the Bible uses to describe a burning hell—Gehenna—comes from a burning place, the valley of Gehenna adjacent to Jerusalem on the south. Gehenna is an English transliteration of the Greek form of an Aramaic word, which is derived from the Hebrew phrase “the Valley of (the son[s] of) Hinnom.” In one of their greatest apostasies, the Jews passed their children through the fires in sacrifice to the god Molech in that very valley.

    In Jesus’ time this was a place of constant fire, but more so, it was a refuse heap, the last stop for all items judged by men to be worthless. When Jesus spoke of Gehenna hell, He was speaking of the city dump of all eternity. Yes, fire was part of it, but the purposeful casting away—the separation and loss—was all of it.

    The NT describes hell as a bottomless pit (Rev. 20:3), a lake (Rev. 20:14), darkness (Matt. 25:30), death (Rev. 2:11), destruction (2 Thess. 1:9), everlasting torment (Rev. 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matt. 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matt. 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Rev. 20:12-13).

    Hell is a place that is worse than death, darker than darkness, and deepe

    Report Post » stage9  
  • beckbotsrlame
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:16pm

    The beckester a false prophet, the real 666 the beast. you have been warned. Shalom

    Report Post » beckbotsrlame  
    • Fastsam
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 4:26am

      I did not know they let teenagers on here. God be with you my boy.

      Report Post » Fastsam  
  • ares338
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:12pm

    The only hell is the one you create in your own mind. It may be real for you but it doesn’t make it my reality. Everyone, and I mean everyone is entitled to their own model of the world and afterworld.
    I do believe in a supreme being and her name is not important, just semantics.

    Report Post » ares338  
    • PastorDecker
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:55pm

      Truth is truth! No one is entitled to interpret Scripture for themself. God said what HE meant and meant what HE said. Heaven and Hell are both literal places all throughout the Scripture. Hell is real…and there will be a special place there for those who convinced other that it wasn’t real.

      Report Post » PastorDecker  
    • Melvin Spittle
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:34am

      PastorDecker, how dare you speak truths that may upset ares338′s delusional state? Ares338 arrogant and insulting statement will come back to haunt her on judgement day. Not sure if her name will be in the Book of Life or not, but she will know the truth in the end.

      God made man in His own image so I fail to see where ares338′s gets the insane notion that God is a her: Comic books I guess, or she believes in Gaya, the pagan goddess that is all the rage of new age enviro-fanatics.

      Report Post » Melvin Spittle  
    • Hemispheres
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:01am

      Pastordecker, are you not interpreting the scriptures yourself or are you repeating someone’s interpretation?

      Report Post » Hemispheres  
  • I Love both Jesus and Israel
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:10pm

    For anyone who doesn’t believe in Hell I recommend reading the book “ 23 Minutes in Hell”. Scripture is clear that Hell exists. I also recommend looking on http://www.boblarson.org if you have any doubts that Hell exists. I also recommend reading the book of Revelation. Hell is a real place. Bible tells us over and over again that it does. In fact if I remember correctly the Bible talks more about Hell than it does Heaven.

    Report Post » I Love both Jesus and Israel  
    • boxy
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:19pm

      The bible says that hell was created for the fallen angels and Satan.

      Report Post »  
    • momprayn
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:24pm

      Yes, I agree & I don’t understand “pastors” or “Christians” who say they don’t believe in hell. I’ve been a Christian for 50 yrs. & I could see it in the scriptures as plain as day, many times – mostly by Jesus. It’s a “no-brainer”. Something very wrong there. In short, it’s my understanding from Scriptures that when you die, your soul goes immediately to heaven or hell, depending whether you’re “saved” or not (no in-between state such as purgatory). Yes, hell is “Hades”, or the place where the dead reside before Judgement Day. They are tortured in an unquenchable fire until then. After the great Judgement, they are thrown into the “lake of fire” for eternity. Whatever – it’s “safe to say” you definitely want to avoid going there & not take any RISK! Just a few scriptures:
      “Woe upon the world with all its evils…if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. Better to enter heaven crippled than to be in hell with both of our hands and feet.” Matthew 18:7, 8
      “..the rich man died and was buried, and his soul went into hell. There, in TORMENT, he saw Lazarus (beggar who went to the place of the righteous dead)..with Abraham. “Father Abraham, he shouted, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here if only to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in these FLAMES.” Luke 16:22-24
      “..shall be in danger of hell fire” Matt. 5:22

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 11:00pm

      @MomPrayin

      The Bible speaks of Hell as the final punishment, not an on going punishment. It seems you have been misled and I respectfully ask you to carefully inspect these false teachings of men. 

      Hellfire devours the raised dead wicked causing them to exist no more, final punishment. Only believers have eternal life. John 3:16

      The parable you quoted of Lazarus is just that, a parable. I encourage you to learn what it meant.

      The lake of fire would be this Earth as Jesus Christ, God creates a new Heaven and New Earth. 

      When one dies, the soul sleeps until Christ awakens for judgement, believers receiving eternal life while unbelievers receiving Hell, existence no more.  

      The Bible does not say one goes to heaven or hell upon physical death. If it does please provide the scripture.

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • godlovinmom
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 3:26pm

      okie…to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord…are you referring to purgatory?…I believe that’s catholic doctrine.

      Report Post » godlovinmom  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 6:47pm

      @GodLovinMom

      Purgatory? No. What part of my post do you believe to be Catholic purgatory? 

      The soul sleeps. Jesus Christ awakens the dead, first the righteous (believers), then the wicked (non-believers). 

      Upon death if I go straight to heaven/hell why is Christ coming to gather me and coming to Earth to do so? Isn’t Christ in heaven? Is Hell on Earth? 

      The belief one goes to Heaven upon death is Catholic doctrine, just like Hell (a place) is Catholic Doctrine. Purgatory, the third Catholic Doctrine is a place for not perfect but not evil souls and need time to be “scrubbed” thru prayer.  I’m not advocating for any of these as they are all false, are you? 

      John 5:28,29
      Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 

      Acts 2 tells us David did not ascend to heaven. The soul sleeps until Christ Jesus comes. I appreciate the dialogue. 

      LIC

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • godlovinmom
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 7:20pm

      I LOVE the dialogue…okay you got me looking to the word…how about this…Luke 12:20 …But God said unto him, thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of them….I believe the unsaved will be the ones “sleeping” until their judgement, like all things with God’s word…I learn something new everyday…common sense, faith, God’s word tells me, that once I make the decision to except the gift of Christ Jesus, doesn’t matter what I do , that I will be with God upon my natural death…to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. (what do you think that verse means) Sorry if I come off wrong, organized religion is a pet peev of mine and how they ALL screw up God’s word…where two to three meet (or talk) is fellowshipping with like minded people, so I do appreciate the discussion. Sooo good to see alot of believers though!

      Report Post » godlovinmom  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 7:43pm

      @GodLovinMom
      This is what we with faith should do, converse like adults over our Lord. Jesus told us false teachings would begin after him. We must converse for truth. I appreciate you much. 

      2 Corinthians 5

       We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 

      Colossians 2:5
      For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 

      Paul is speaking in both scriptures. To be absent from the body is to deny the flesh and therefore present with the Lord as we walk in the Spirit. Also notice it says we must have judgement before the Lord. 

      John 3:6-7
      That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 

      Jesus explaining flesh is sinful way, rebirth in him is spiritual way. I hope God’s word around this helps you and leads you to more truths. God is good. LIC

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:31pm

      @GodLovinMom

      As for Luke 12:20, Jesus is calling the man a fool for stocking up on Earthly goods for himself instead of stocking up on crowns in Heaven. The reference your soul required tonight is simply a reference to death, physical death. I do not see it as Jesus talking as in detailed reference to death. Notice in verse 19 the man tells his Soul to “take a break” for it has much goods laid up. We can never take a break on sharing God’s Word. 

      Thank you again for the good dialogue. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • godlovinmom
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:42pm

      I must confess, I’ve been a little on the lazy side, studying God’s word, so bear with me…Hades since the ascension of Christ has not changed, still the place where lazarus was, but at the judgement of the great white throne, hades will give them up, since the ascension of Christ, there was a change in paradise or heaven if you will, 2Cor12:1-4 tells us that Paul was caught up in the third heaven…..Paradise therefore is in the presence of God….the present church age the saved who die are absent from the body at home with the Lord, the wicked dead in hades and the righteous dead at home with the Lord, …this is how I understand it…this truth like all truths in God’s word is for each and everyone of us to ponder for ourselves and pray that the Good Lord gives us wisdom to understand. :0)

      Report Post » godlovinmom  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 14, 2011 at 1:01am

      GodLovinMom

      Who is Christ arising on the first resurrection of the dead? Where are they? Start there and go forward. 

      Jews at Paul’s time viewed the world as an onion since technology and science had yet been expanded. Remember the Earth was flat……

      The core of the onion was physical Earth, second layer a water gulf and third layer “heaven” was unseeable to physical man. 

      Most often this model had 7 layers, but some contained only 3 as we see here. 

      Paul was describing seeing Christ risen on Paul’s day of transformation in the context and terms those of his day understood. 

      Paul is not saying there are 3 heavens. Paul is simply saying he saw Christ in Heaven. Paul was affirming his authority as some were questioning it. 

      Parables are parables. Hades is death. 

      If one looks and searches for truth they will find it thru diligence. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • godlovinmom
      Posted on July 14, 2011 at 1:56pm

      ok…I got ya…but…my faith in Jesus tells me that I will no longer wait after my natural death, when he said to the criminal that was on the cross alongside of him, because he believed that he would be in paradise right along side of him that day, does that tell you first he has to go to the grave for awhile and wait on Jesus…no..that shows me there is no more waiting, the ultimate sacrafice has been completed. So in my natural little mind, that means NO MORE WAITING, it is finished! Believe me okie, when I say, I appreciate your input, got me thinking again, and we as believers today get sidetracked very easily in today’s world! don’t we?

      Report Post » godlovinmom  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 14, 2011 at 4:46pm

      @GodLovinMom
      All the questions and beliefs you have, I once held myself. The Spirit of God leads us to truths and I am very grateful for it. Either you believe Christ will come gather his fruit from Earth as the Bible says or you believe your in Heaven which isn’t in the Bible. One or the other. 

      An important fact to know, punctuation was not used when the scripture was written. It was not practiced then. Read this verse now:

      And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.” [Luke 23:43] Correct version

      And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.” [Luke 23:43] Incorrect version

      Proof is in this verse: 

      John 19:31-33, “The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:”

      Sun is setting (new day) and two are still alive, Jesus is dead. They asked to break their legs to finish them off. Jesus died on a different day then the other two so it they couldn’t be tougher in Paradise that same day.
      Listen to your spirit. Your questioning for a reason. God is awesome and thank you again for talk

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • PghLady13
      Posted on July 20, 2011 at 9:37pm

      When we became separate from God, we where condemned to death. Eternal death is promised to all who do not believe the only way to the Father is through the Son. I agree with you. We have so minimalized the effects of hell it is way too easy to not believe it could happen to you because you are such a good person who…lusts after your neighbors spouse, speaks behind your best friends back…told that white lie that you go to church but your like everyone else…told your friend how to help her 15 year old to get an abortion….took a box of paper clips and a few pens from the supply room at work to bring home…cannot forgive your brother for stealing from you when you where a kid…who finds your parents a burden because they need your help around the house…you get my point. We all need a saviour. I know I couldn’t do it without Him.

      Report Post » PghLady13  
  • SonOfThunder
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:34pm

    Like Beck and his mormon friends they agree, there is no hell. Mormons are not Christian and are peddling their way straight to hell. The Bible is very clear that there is a hell. Mormon teaching , these anti christic author and rob bell authors are wolves in sheep’s clothing as the Bible describes. Case closed. Lucifer is not Jesus’ brother as mormons believe. Sorry you got the wrong Jesus you got the wrong salvation and god. Beck continues to say he is a christian and he is clearly not.

    Report Post »  
    • the hawk
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:41pm

      THERE IS hELL BEEN THERE A BACK SEVERAL TIMES !

      Report Post »  
    • dupaws
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:11pm

      You need to rethink your view. evryone goes tp hell, it is the grave, pit, place of the dead (grave yard) Look at the word Shoul that is its meaning. no more no less. The Catholic Church had a lot to do with what most think about hell, and if you really study you will find it is not what you think it is. Oh there will be a burnning, but not forever.

      Report Post » dupaws  
    • joel228
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 2:41am

      SonOfThunder, who taught you Mormon doctrine? I’ve been a life long member and must have missed the class where they taught what you say we believe.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • GdHUs
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 2:21pm

      Hey, Hawk, say something intelligent. No, never mind, you might hurt yourself.

      Report Post » GdHUs  
  • YellowFin
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:33pm

    The English word “hell” was originally used when translated from three different words in Hebrew and Greek.
    Hebrew – “Sheol”,
    Greek – “Hades”, and “Gehenna”.
    These three words, in their original language, mean simply “grave, or pit.

    Research it if you do not believe it.

    Report Post » YellowFin  
    • Blacktooth
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:05pm

      Yellowfin,

      My brother, I know what you‘re doing and it is noble but don’t bother trying to teach here. Everyone is locked into their false doctrines and they will not look up the scripture to educate themselves. The Bible has all the answers but they prefer their own reasonings and they listen to false teachers and buy they many wearisome books to validate their erroneous coarse. This is not the proper setting to have a meaningful discussion on Christian faith.
      I know how it is to see the confusion and we may want to step in, to help, but I am coming to the conclusion that I am wasting my time here on the Blaze. Keep up the good work my friend.

      Report Post » Blacktooth  
    • momprayn
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:21pm

      BLACKTOOTH – Yes, but don’t give up. We all get discouraged since we usually don‘t see anything to tell us we’ve helped someone – usually just the opposite. But keep in mind, you only see a very few people that comment on here – there are all those that read them and never comment. Just keep praying that God will bring whoever He can work with to see any truth they may need. He sees it all and blesses your efforts. You probably won’t ever know here…..but you will in heaven. God bless.

      Report Post »  
    • Blacktooth
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:32pm

      Thank you Mom for your encouraging words.
      It is always good to hear from Mom.
      Proverbs 25:11

      Report Post » Blacktooth  
    • I Hear the Wolves
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:51pm

      Yellowfin

      Gehenna does not mean “grave” or “pit”. It is a literal place outside of Jerusalem. It is said that the fires there burned continually, to burn up trash and corpses. It is also where worshipers of Molech would sacrifice infants by burning them. It is used in scripture as a metaphor for Hell, where the fires will also continually burn. Apparently you and Blacktooth are the ones who have been listening to false teachers, if you think there is not a literal Hell where the lost will be eternally separated from God.

      For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold, And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and man-made fictions.

      2 Timothy 4:3-4 Amplified

      Report Post » I Hear the Wolves  
    • YellowFin
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 11:15pm

      I Hear the Wolves,
      Okay, you got me, Gehenna does not mean the grave or pit. I, of course agree with your explanation of what Gehenna was and what it represents, a fiery destruction of all things thrown into that garbage dump.
      But the end is the same, just as if a body was in the grave or pit with no life or consciousness thereafter. The problem is people confuse the old Gehenna reality by applying it to a Hellfire situation that is not scriptural. Remember Jesus always spoke by means of an illustration.

      Report Post » YellowFin  
    • I Hear the Wolves
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 11:34pm

      Yellowfin,
      You said, “Remember Jesus always spoke by means of an illustration.”

      Precisely my point. The continuously burning flames of Gehenna was a metaphor, an illustration for another real place where the fire burns forever. The fire never goes out for those who are cast into the fiery furnace/outer darkness. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. It is written pretty plainly. Fortunately for both of us, I don’t believe this is a salvation issue. So I will gladly, as John Wesley said while eulogizing George Whitefield, “agree to disagree.”

      Report Post » I Hear the Wolves  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 2:01am

      “Where the fire never goes out” does not logically mean the conitued perpetual existence of the damned being burned, as every finite thing that burns can only burn for a finite time.

      Like throwing a piece of paper into a roaring fire, the fire will never go out relative to the existence of that piece of paper, but it will cease to burn once it is burned up. No created thing is infinite, only God is. Thus, if the fire actually burns there must be a finite time for its finite existence to be consumed by the fire. The only other alternative is that God continually restores them a la Prometheus, but that conception of God is alien to everything that has been revealed.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
  • Benyahmin
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:28pm

    Everyone do themselves a favor and learn the words that are translated Hell, and the difference in them. Grouping Sheol and Gehenna has brought much confusion to understanding in this.

    Report Post »  
  • Rayblue
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:25pm

    Anyone that thinks hell doesn’t exist in the material sense is misled.

    Report Post » Rayblue  
  • Taxpayer550
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:24pm

    2 Thessalonians 2: 9-12
    “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

    Report Post » Taxpayer550  
    • mils
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:41pm

      I do not uderstand why your god would send a powerful delusion…seems a bit harsh for someone that loves you…perhpas he should send a “light”….it might work better. please don’t hand me more bible rhetoric about what has been sent. No one knows and I get dizzy with all the excuses that religions have that they are the best and their translations of their book…yeah, everybody has a “book”… is right.
      Just be a good person, do what you know is right. Hell? well, I don’t know..perhaps this is our hell right here…

      Report Post »  
    • hillbillyinny
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:00pm

      @MLS

      God “sends a powerful delusion” not to keep people from understanding, but because “. . . they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” When one choses to be separate from God, God does not force Himself on that person, he allows them to “enjoy” their “powerful delusion”–enjoyment in this world, which they’ve traded for perfection in the next!

      It’s called free will–not sealed, but some have made firm choices at a young age, sadly.

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    • Taxpayer550
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:45pm

      God does not force Himself on an individual because He is love. Love does not seek it’s own, nor is it selfish. It trusts fully the one being loved and allows that person the complete and free will to do whatever they please. God’s love is manifested in providing a way for man to have eternal life. His love is NOT manifested by issuing a scare tactic (hell), then removing it at the last second. That is human in nature. God is love, but He is also truth. In His love for mankind, He provides a way of salvation through the death, burial, and resurrection of His perfect son, Jesus Christ. Salvation is not achieved by man through works or any other means. It has been achieved already by the ultimate sacrifice of Christ on the cross. All that man must do in order to have salvation is to accept Christ’s sacrifice as payment for his sin. Man simply acknowledges that he is a sinner, accepts the fact that Christ died for his sin, asks for forgiveness for his sin, and accepts Christ as Lord into his heart as Lord of his life. At that point, he becomes “saved” as in “saved from sin”. His salvation is guaranteed and secure for all eternity. He can not sin his way out of salvation, or do enough good works to make his salvation better. Good works are a manifestation of man’s love and appreciation for God and His free gift of salvation through Christ.

      Report Post » Taxpayer550  
    • Hemispheres
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:14am

      Taxpayer550, it seems pretty blasphemous to me to state that God, in His infinite mercy and love, would deliberately have one of His children deluded to believe the lie and be condemned–especially during this life and before judgement. That seems more of a lie of Satan.

      Report Post » Hemispheres  
  • RomneyWordsworth
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:19pm

    Well said Chan…well said

    Report Post » RomneyWordsworth  
  • Eliasim
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:18pm

    Well how can someone say hell does not exist? Doesn’t it say in Revelation, ‘And after the thousand years is finished, hell gives up the dead’…? Ah, you’ve been mislead. Around the mid to late 1800′s the bottomless pit became opened and hell gave up the dead to once again walk the earth with each bearing the fruit (their take on life) for which they have earned, and of course many are still burning in their spirit on the sea of fire, burning, yearning for the fruit others have.

    Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:30pm

      Hell has given up the dead, and that’s why there are so many billions of people increasing the last 100 years, and it has been 10,000 years since the earth was like it is now. And I’m sure you have noticed how the global population was very small up until around 1000 years ago, and then it gradually increased, exploding exponentially the last 100 years?

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    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:38pm

      Brains…BRAINSSSS…

      For real? You see dead people?

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:44pm

      Trolltrainer,
      Not dead, dead people – spiritually dead people. Their spirit is given up by hell to once again live in a human body. For example you are a spiritually dead person whom is dwelling on the sea of fire even now while your skin and bones is living your spirit is dead. And all you see around you are groups, and people who have more than others do. You’re burning inside.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:50pm

      There is very few people who are actually spiritually alive. Most people are spiritually dead, and it all depends on how much fruit you have gathered in past lives. Of course now it is too late, because damnation is right around the corner.

      Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:51pm

      lol, really? What denomination are you? What happened in 1800? When did that millennium start? Back up your theology with Scripture. It does not fit anywhere in the Bible that I know.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:02pm

      I‘m not going to back it up with scripture for you because it doesn’t matter when you don’t want to understand it that way. I’d be wasting my time and your time. I just tell it like it is and if you don‘t accept it it doesn’t matter because I’m doing what I feel is necessary, and I’m pointing you the correct direction and therefore I am guiltless in the matter. But just so people know, there won’t be many chances left to turn your spirit into a staff, because damnation is coming.

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    • Eliasim
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:23pm

      Some denominations call it the rapture others call it the Lord’s hour. An hour to the Lord is forty years to men. Billions of people can disappear over a forty year time period and people would hardly notice. Jesus will come like a thief in the night, and therefore like in the days of Noah – people will be marrying and having a good time while the flood happens, and most will know nothing significant is happening. But to tell you the thing that is happening I will inform you of, in that billions and billions of people will disappear from the earth, and their souls will not live again for many, many millenniums, if ever again. Because global population after, will not exceed more than several million.

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    • PAPPY72
      Posted on July 14, 2011 at 1:59pm

      I’ve read Revelations, and the events you describe don’t seem to match what has actually happened so far. I could be wrong, but I need more information in order to further my understanding. Is there a web site that describes the point of view that you’ve explained here?

      Report Post »  
  • YellowFin
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:18pm

    How can a person be tormented in a hell-fire in the light of what Psalms 146:4 says?

    Report Post » YellowFin  
  • NationOregonian
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:14pm

    Of course Hell is real: hell is a smart child growing up in a tea party haousehold.

    Report Post » NationOregonian  
  • Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:10pm

    It’s real for Christians, not for everyone else. Case closed. Now, where’s that debt ceiling game of chicken to deal with?

    Report Post » Lesbian Packing Hollow Points  
  • YellowFin
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:03pm

    To get started, Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10
    We need to think and reason on this.

    Report Post » YellowFin  
  • michaeljay
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:03pm

    Denial is not surprising when it deals with the reality of hell. It is similar to denials in cases of terminal illness, tragic events and a whole lot of other things we would rather avoid by plunging our heads in the sand or indulging in fantasy fiction. Remember the old saying, “The hell there is”? A lot of truth in that.

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  • I Hear the Wolves
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:02pm

    Francis Chan is man!

    Report Post » I Hear the Wolves  
  • ramburner
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:02pm

    Why not try to erase it. It makes man feel comfortable, until he meets God at the judgement and man finds out it IS real and then is condemned to spend eternity in it! Christ spoke more about Hell than Heaven. He was warning mankind of its horrible nature for forsaking God in favor of himself and his selfish prideful ways. Romans 10:9-13 is the ONLY way to escape Hell.

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  • jb.kibs
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 8:58pm

    hell is not spending eternity in heaven.

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    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:06pm

      Exactly — Hell or Hades, depending on how it is translated from the old languages simply marks the place of a pit for burial or a grave (above or below ground).

      The Hellfires are the literal “Fires of Death” reserved by God for the Devil, his fallen minions and his followers on the day of judgment when the darkness is gone forever; look in Ezekiel 28:12-19 and understand the one it speaks of and his final fate of annhilation.

      Eternal seperation from God; or as it is called in Revelation, The Second Death — “Blessed is he who partakes of the first ressurection for upon then the second death shall have no hold.” I believe it is found in Revelation Ch 20.

      Let everyone study it out for themselves and make up their own minds on the matter.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
  • Ira WIlson
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 8:58pm

    I would rather spend a lifetime believing in a place like hell than spend an eternity in hell because I didn’t think it exists!

    Report Post » Ira WIlson  
    • Stu D. Baker-Hawk
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 11:29pm

      Exactly, and well put.

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    • jeronadams
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:48pm

      What if you have it wrong, and the Hindus have it right? You’ll be spending eternity in a constant state of Samsara. Personally for me I would rather believe that Brahma exists then spending eternity in Samsara!!!! Dont worry though the Gita is the book of truths and can be found at any bookstore, i strongly suggest that you read it before it is to late for you…. I’ll pray for you.

      Report Post »  
    • happy2behere
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 2:42pm

      A spin on Pascal’s Wager, I like it.

      Report Post »  
  • Ron_WA
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 8:56pm

    I don’t know if hell is a real place but I know I believe in God. My Faith is strong; the rest of it is all minutia.

    Report Post » Ron_WA  
    • I Hear the Wolves
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:06pm

      It is a real place, and it isn’t “minutiae”. The belief in a real hell, should make you crazy about making sure as few people as possible end up there.

      Report Post » I Hear the Wolves  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 9:13pm

      Do you believe in Jesus Christ? Do you know what Scripture says about hell (or the Lake of Fire to be more precise for some folks in here)? It is all given to us in black and white and it was given for a reason. I think God wants us to study on it, I do not think He considers it “minutia.”

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:11pm

      @TrollTrainer

      You believe Hell is a place and all evil will have eternal life suffering there? Please provide scripture.

      Jesus Christ tells us that only believers in Jesus Christ have eternal life. 

      Hellfire is what devours the raised wicked dead and cause them to exist no more. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • I Hear the Wolves
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 10:42pm

      Matthew 8:12; Matthew 13:42,50; Matthew 22:13; Matthew 24:51; Matthew 25:30; Luke 13:28…uh, I could go on.

      If Hell isn’t real, why did Jesus talk more about it than Heaven? If souls are incinerated and are “no more”, how could they be weeping and gnashing their teeth? The belief that there is no Hell is wishful thinking.

      Report Post » I Hear the Wolves  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 11:32pm

      One that has not been cited that I saw is Daniel 12:12. “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. ”

      Everlasting…

      This seems to be the hurdle that annalists have to deal with. There is a lot of talk by both sides about “false teachings” but this is an intricate argument and both sides can support their views with Scripture. But let me say this…When you have to justify what Scripture says to fit YOUR theology, to get around your beliefs, then your argument is considerably weaker. Not defeated…But weaker. A clear reading of both the OT and NT would lead the reader to believe that punishment is everlasting. Why raise the dead in Christ only to destroy them? That is pointless. I will not even touch soul sleep…That one can be defeated scripturally.

      But this is a moot argument anyway. The question is do you accept Christ as your Savior? If yes then no matter your beliefs on this or any other doctrine is little more than fodder for argument. Study Scripture to show yourself approved unto God, but do not go to war against your brothers and sisters because they do not believe exactly as you do.

      Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 11:39pm

      “annihilationist”

      Sorry, used spellcheck and did not catch it.

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 12, 2011 at 11:47pm

      @I Hear the Wolves

      I ask you to show me where Sodom and Gomorrha are still burning to this day. 

      Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 

      The wage of sin is death. Death is eternal. Being burnt to ash is eternal. Ceasing to exist is eternal. The punishing is not eternal, the punishment is eternal. 

      A person being burnt alive screams and “gnashes” teeth until they cease to live. A soul burning I’m sure will do the same until becoming ashes. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 12:04am

      @TrollTrainer

      Please provide scripture disproving soul sleep. I believe you are incorrect. Many scripture explains your soul sleeps until Christ awakens it either in the first resurrection of the dead or the second. It also says it is better to be awaken in the first.  

      The dead in Christ are raised first. Alive believers transform and the wicked are slain. 1000 years later New Jerusalem comes to earth, the wicked dead raised and Satan tempts them for the tree of life (encompass Saints) and hellfire devours the wicked, permanently ceasing to exist. 

      Eternal is used many times not as length but as a finalization. Just like we say “I’m gonna fix this once and for all” doesn’t mean your fixing something forever but means you have the final solution and fixed (one time action) the problem. 

      The wages of sin is death. Christ died for sin. Us sinners who do not accept Christ will receive death, not eternal life. 

      You are correct, those who twist scripture to fit their modern day prophecy show the weak argument they obtain. the Bible interprets the Bible, not man for his “prophesy”. 

      Understanding truth about Jesus, the Word, is our duty and what we should converse over to understand better and to have stronger faith. Finding truth is never moot. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • I Hear the Wolves
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 12:16am

      Okie from Muskogee, I have a question for you before we go any farther. Please tell me what John 1:1 says.

      Report Post » I Hear the Wolves  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 12:33am

      Wolves

      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

      ??? 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • the hawk
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:10am

      Hear The Wolfs,
      Sounds like you should be going door to door !

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:38am

      John 5:28,29
      Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 

      Acts 2:29-36
      Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:44am

      @TrollTrainer
      Just a few scripture showing your souls sleeps and does not go directly to heaven or hell. If David is not in heaven why would the wicked be in hell. Both are awaiting judgement, one to eternal LIFE the other eternal DEATH. Both describing spiritual aspects (souls) as the flesh is corrupted and gone on physical death. If your soul doesn’t sleep whom and what is Christ awakening on his coming? 

      Christ was the payment of sin and being the Son of God Christ overcame hell, spiritual death, and is alive waiting to give the same eternal life to those who believe in him. The opposite of eternal life is, eternal death. 

      @Wolves

      “The belief in a real hell, should make you crazy about making sure as few people as possible end up there.”

      You asked why Jesus talked more of “hell” then heaven. Your own statement should explain it perfectly. Jesus was trying very hard to let all know hell is eternal (final) and is the opposite of eternal life which is given upon belief in him. 

      I do appreciate good dialogue around the Bible and our savior Jesus Christ. I thank you both. LIC

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • I Hear the Wolves
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:24am

      Okie, I was just making sure you aren‘t a Jehovah’s Witness.

      Hawk, it sounds like you don‘t have a clue what you’re talking about.

      Report Post » I Hear the Wolves  
    • the hawk
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 12:23pm

      Hear The WOLFS,

      The belief in a real hell, should make you crazy about making sure as few people as possible end up there.
      SOUNDS LIKE YOU SHOULD BE GOING DOOR TO DOOR—
      TO MAKE SURE AS FEW PEOPLE END UP THERE as possible !
      Don‘t know what I’m talking about? I ment it in a light hearted way! Dont take offense ! best wishes !

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 3:02pm

      @Wolves

      No Jehovah Witness. I am now curious how you determine such thru asking the first verse of John. Please excuse my ignorance but could you possibly enlighten me on this?  Hope your days great.

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Bluebonnet
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 6:58pm

      John l:1 yes, but finish the rest of it. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh & dwelt among us..(Jesus) John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE. 1st John 5:7For there are 3 that bear record in heaven, The Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these THREE are ONE. 1st John 5:8 And 3 that bear witness in earth: The Spirit, the Water and the Blood, and these 3 agree in one..
      I’m not much into reasoning or arguing with theology, but I do read and try to put it all together and this makes sense to me 100% God said it, I believe it, and that case is closed.
      .

      Report Post »  
    • I Hear the Wolves
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 7:07pm

      Okie

      In the New World Translation, the version of the Bible used exclusively by JWs, John 1:1 reads as follows: In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

      Did you catch that? It’s subtle, just one tiny letter “a”, and it becomes heresy. They also believe in things like soul sleep, and no hell. That’s why I asked if you were a JW.

      Report Post » I Hear the Wolves  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 7:55pm

      @Wolves

      Thank you much. This I did not know. I have never used that version of a Bible and glad I have not. 

      May I respectfully ask your thoughts around soul sleep and hell. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
  • bullcrapbuster
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 8:54pm

    I believe that hell is a place that is ruled by behavior. Theives living with thieves,liars with liars, killers with killers,rapists with rapists and none of those that they prey on in this life are preent among them. The meanest and strongest among them will impose their rule. Perfect justice, spend eternity with people like ourselves.etc etc.

    Report Post » bullcrapbuster  
    • jeronadams
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:52pm

      I’m not sure putting rapists with other rapists would really be that bad of a punishment for them

      Report Post »  
  • notmeatglennbeckdotcom
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 8:54pm

    20% real unemployment, $14 trillion in debt, crashing dollar, 6 wars, record low housing prices, real inflation, and Obama in the White House – we’re living it!

    Report Post »  
  • Grandmadar
    Posted on July 12, 2011 at 8:49pm

    God never sends people to Hell….we make that choice for ourselves. He does make it clear how to avoid be separated from Him for all eternity.

    Report Post »  
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