Gingrich’s Iowa Political Director Leaves Campaign after ‘Cult of Mormon’ Remark
- Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:39pm by
Tiffany Gabbay
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During a focus group on Wednesday the newly appointed political director for Newt Gingrich’s Iowa campaign stated that Mitt Romney’s religion — which he referred to as the “cult of Mormon” — will cost Republicans the election.
According to the Iowa Republican, Craig Bergman, in reference to the beliefs of an anti-Romney pastor, stated:
“There is a national pastor who is very much on the anti-Mitt Romney bandwagon…A lot of the evangelicals believe God would give us four more years of Obama just for the opportunity to expose the cult of Mormon…There’s a thousand pastors ready to do that.”
But rather than cost Republicans the election, Bergman’s remark, which was made right before he was to start work on the Gingrich campaign — cost him his job. In a statement Tuesday evening, the Gingrich campaign said Bergman had “agreed to step away from his role with Newt 2012.”
“He made a comment to a focus group prior to becoming an employee that is inconsistent with Newt 2012′s pledge to run a positive and solutions orientated campaign,” spokesman R.C. Hammond said in the statement.
Iowa Caucuses adds:
In October, a Texas minister ignited a firestorm for attacking Romney’s religion by calling it a “cult.” Robert Jeffress, a senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Dallas, was introducing rival presidential candidate Rick Perry at the Values Voter Summit on Oct. 7 when he made his comment.
Perry’s campaign eventually disavowed Jeffress’ statement.
Bergman apparently hadn’t yet been hired by the Gingrich campaign when he participated in Wednesday’s focus group. The Iowa Republican’s editor, Craig Robinson, told The Des Moines Register this afternoon that Bergman identified himself as an undecided voter.
Bergman, a Des Moines Republican, joined the Gingrich campaign on Thursday, according to a report by Real Clear Politics’ Scott Conroy.
Linda Upmeyer, the chairwoman for Gingrich’s Iowa campaign, reached by telephone for reaction this afternoon, said she’s never heard Gingrich himself say anything negative about Mormonism.
“I’ve never had any discussion that resembled that with Speaker Gingrich,” Upmeyer said. “I have no doubt there are people that reject Mormonism but I’ve never engaged in a conversation regarding that, ever.”
In an interview with the Register, Romney said he doesn’t think religion should play a role in the election process.
“I don’t think the particular faith of an individual should become an issue in a campaign, but again it’s up to the people to decide what they want to do on their own. I think campaigns would be unwise to make a particular faith an issue in the campaign,” Romney said.
The Register reported that, in addition to serving as state director for Fair Tax for Iowa, Bergman worked for Ron Paul’s campaign four years ago.
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Comments (364)
amabokcuf
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:38pmGuys… the Mormon religion is cultic in the strict definition of the word: A centralized power structure, secretive rituals, questionable belief system based on a book with absolutely no archaeological proof of its claims.
Newt is just saying what is the truth.
Libs and cults, flipped: FlipTheLib.com
Report Post »Ishmot2
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:45pmabsolutely no archaeological proof of its claims
It’s a wicked and adulterous generation that seeketh a sign.
Report Post »GeddyWanaBe
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:54pmHow idiotic the misinformed seem. Mormonism is no more a cult than traditional Christianity. From Dictionary.com Cult: 1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies. Catholicism easily fits into this. The only reason much of protestantism doesn’t fit that is because they kind of make it up as they go. One doesn’t agree with the other so they start their own denomination. That’s why there are between 30k and 50k different denominations of Christianity according to the encyclopedia of Christianity. That doesn’t even count for the fact the Mormon doctrine is closer to the Bible than any other organized religion.
As for the Book of Mormon; while faith is never completely subject to proof, anyone who says there is no proof behind the Book of Mormon is too ignorant to comment. Do a sliver of research separate from those who hate and you’ll find your truth. Would you go to Hitler to find truth about the Jews?
Come on people, try to approach this with a little less bigotry.
Report Post »Lazier Than Thou
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:59pmEVERY religion is a cult by those definitions. In fact, many, many other things are cults as well. The Masons are a cult by that definition. Gym membership is technically a cult by that definition. Being a Republican or Democrat is to be a cultist by that definition.
Really, the term “cult” is horribly misrepresented. Yes it applies, but it’s such a loose definition that it applies to just about everything that involves a membership.
By their fruits you shall know them. Are the fruits of Mormons good or evil? That’s for you to decide, not if they’re a cult or not.
Report Post »Jay Jay
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:59pmyou just defined every religion dumb ass hahaha…… Newt is a fatty fat fatty with big government ideas
Report Post »markchristopher
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:04amWho are you to even say something so stupid? You remind me of that atheist that was booted off of Eric Bollings show. And if Newt doesn’t watch out what he says, he’ll drop like an anchor in the polls.
Report Post »newmexicopatriots
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:10amSir, I urge you to try reading the Book of Mormon before passing judgment. Yes, we do believe the Book of Mormon is inspired of God, we also believe in the Bible, the same as you. As far as ‘secret rituals’, no, not secret, Sacred. If only you knew the blessings of God’s Temples, you wouldn’t be so full of hate. I certainly don’t pass judgment on you. If you are a Christian, I wish you the best. God loves every one of his children. This really isn’t a time for divisiveness. We are Christians also, and all Christians need to unite against our real enemies, those who would destroy our country, enemies from within and from without. The very first of our Articles of Faith states: “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” Friend, I know of no Mormon who would seek to forcibly convert anyone else, which definitely can’t be said of any Muslim. Please keep these thoughts in mind, and God Bless you.
Report Post »Plojka
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:10amYou better include the ancient church that Christ established too and include God’s chosen people, the Isreaelites with their temple rites and other rituals under the law of moses. What god have you created for yourself?
Report Post »deerjerkydave
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:12amGood job, by your definition the Catholic Church is a cult. Centralized authority? Check. Sacred rituals? Check. Belief in a questionable book of scripture? Check.
How about building bridges instead of burning them? This is exactly why Newt and his drones could never win the presidency.
Report Post »blazingaway
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:17amOne could also say the Catholic Church in Rome is a cult as are most of these organized religious groups. If they‘re not communicating the good news that Jesus Christ is the savior of mankind then they’re a cult. Christ is either who he said he is or he was a lair and mentally ill. In which case all of Christianity would be a cult if Christ was a lair.
Report Post »Coralchristie
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:21amThere are many archeological proofs to the claim of the Book of Mormon. Let’s face it…you or anyone wanting to claim that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a cult will say and believe just about anything that would justify their ignorance or prejudice.
Report Post »symphonic
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:23amIts time to expose the CULT of EVANGELICALISM and how they pretend to be Christians but go around cutting everybody down including Catholics, JW’s and Mormons to name a few. The cult of liar. Fact is, they raise their hands and wave them around in a cult like fashion, and play electric guitars for worship. I’d say that our Founding Fathers would have had a heart attack over that LOL. So question is, who do they think they are??
Report Post »HippoNips
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:28amYou moron’s need an IQ test and rabies vacs.
I‘m not Mormon and I can’t stand Romney but Morons have additonal writings and Saints of their own, just like the Roman Catholics and Angelicans.
Now shoved it up your pie hole
Report Post »newmexicopatriots
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:29amRe: Ishmot2….“ absolutely no archaeological proof of its claims” Faith doesn’t need proof. Can Jesus Resurrection be “proven”? Of course not. That doesn‘t mean it didn’t happen. Why are you so spiteful?
and …..
Report Post »“It’s a wicked and adulterous generation that seeketh a sign.” What in the world are you talking about? LDS people are no more adulterous and wicked than anyone else, if anything, I would say we are less so, if only because our faith in our marriages, and in our principles, are so strong. (In general, I can’t speak for everyone).
Top_Down
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:33amBy your definition, all of Christianity is a cult (minus Catholisism, due to the fact that they broke off of the church with a different power structure based off different structure and spiritual rituals, questionable belief system based on another understanding of the Bible (remember that the Mormons use the Bible as well and just have a different understanding of it than main stream christianity or catholisism. So what is the problem with that. There are hundreds – thousands of break offs of Christianity or Catholisism that are cult like in many ways. Under your argument Catholisism is the only non-cultish Christian faith.
What does this have to do with him being the President, they are the most upstanding citizens we have, they make up a huge amount of the Tea Party as well. So why are we worrying about their faith just because they are a little weird or different to us.
Report Post »Jubie
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:37amwhere the crap did you get that Definition. Looking at both dictionary.com and merriam-webster.com I didn’t see that anywhere. I even searched for your exact definition on the web and it didn’t find anything. sounds more like the person that told you this made up a definition that would work best to fit Mormonism and no other religion into the box.
below is websters definition copied and pasted (welcome to school)
1: formal religious veneration : worship
Report Post »2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially: such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b: the object of such devotion
c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
newmexicopatriots
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:38amRe: Plojka’s comment:
“You better include the ancient church that Christ established too..”.
If you read my comments, you will see that I said Mormons (Latter Day Saints) DO believe in the Bible, the Old and the New Testament. Consider our name, The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Later Day Saints, first and foremost, we Believe in God, and Jesus Christ, our Savior.
“and include God’s chosen people, the Israelites with their temple rites and other rituals under the law of Moses.”
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I have only the utmost respect and love for the Jewish people. Our differences simply don’t matter at this point, it’s the common bond we have that matters, Love of the Lord our God.
“What god have you created for yourself? ” …. Well, the same God all Christians believe in, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob. The God who delivered Moses’ people to the promised land, the God who gives and gives, while most people only take and take. Why are so many so hateful here? It’s really sad.
Report Post »newmexicopatriots
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:42amRe: HippoNips Comments… “You moron’s need an IQ test… Now shoved it up your pie hole”.
WOW. Such wonderful prose and penmanship. Your mom must be proud of you.
Report Post »SUMTHINSTINKS
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:45amIf you’ll read what it says….Newt is NOT the one that said it!
Report Post »Jefferson
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:54amListen as a disillusioned GB supporter freaks out when GB says that he would vote for Ron Paul before he would Newt. This is what happens when you let someone else do your thinking and research for you.
Report Post »“Question Boldly” (but don’t color outside the lines)
http://www.dailypaul.com/192593/audio-glenn-beck-explains-why-he-would-support-ron-paul-for-president-over-progressive-newt-gingrich
Pouncing Porcupine
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:54amCult = Culture
Occult = Secret Culture
Mormonism is a secret culture, so is therefore occultic.
Book of Mormon is fictional compilation plagiarized from the KJV and “View of the Hebrews”.
Report Post »martinez012577
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:31am@Mormons
So lets get this straight.
1. Elohim(your god) used to be a man.
2. He has alot of goddess.
3. He has two older sons (Jesus and satan).
4. Elohim lives near the star Kolob? Where is that again?
5. Elohim came to Earth and had sex with Mary ( Jesus’s mother).
6. Even though it clearly states Jesus accended to Heaven after resurection, he made a stop in the Americas?
7. Since some people were indecisive on which side to pick Jesus or satan, Elohim cursed them making them black. Glenn never talked about that subject on black people.
8. Jews came to the Americas and created great civilazations that no one has seen or heard of since.
9. These two tribes, one of them was cursed and turned dark. They became the American indians. The other eventually were killed by the dark jews.
10. These civilzations though had steel, elephants, machines, horses, wheat, barley, grapes, roads and great cities. None of these things have been found though pre columbian time.
Here is some real research on the subject.
http://www.irr.org/mit/bom-arch-v1.html
Here is a study done by the Smithsonian
Report Post »http://www.christianarsenal.com/Christian_Arsenal/Archeology_vs_Mormon.html
Libertarian
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 2:05amI‘m more worried about Romney’s association with the cultist-progressives.
Report Post »CanadaKen
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 2:27amamabokcuf
“Newt is just saying what is the truth”.
Newt did not say “cult of Mormon”, Craig Bergman said it.
Read the storie.
During a focus group on Wednesday the newly appointed political director for Newt Gingrich’s Iowa campaign stated that Mitt Romney’s religion — which he referred to as the “cult of Mormon” — will cost Republicans the election.
But rather than cost Republicans the election, Bergman’s remark, which was made right before he was to start work on the Gingrich campaign — cost him his job.
Report Post »wbalzley
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 2:41am@Martinez: The points you list are full of miscaricature and misdirection. The language is vague and easily misinterpreted by those who are not versed in either mormonism or biblical literature. For example, your first point refers to ELOHIM as “your god.” implying that he is different from GOD. This fails to recognize that ELOHIM is the Hebrew word translated into GOD in the Bible. ELOHIM is GOD…
All of your points contain similar literary tricks designed to distort or conceal the truth. Unravelling the deception in each would take more space and time than is warranted on this site. There are other sites and forums that address the points you raise here.
For general questions about the LDS Church, go to mormon.org. If you are interested in more scholarly questions about mormon beliefs, you might consider fairlds.org.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:07am@Wbalzley,
The “misdirection” seems entirely your own, as you don’t address a single assertion that Martinez succinctly makes about Mormon beliefs. You just say he has many distortions but tat you can’t go into all of them.
But political campaigns shouldn’t get embroiled in religious arguments. It’s better to let the voters make their own minds up about that.
I think Gingrich was being perhaps overly cautious here, as Bergman didn’t seem to be personally advocating the view that he attributes to “a lot of the evangelicals”. He was simply making an observation about many evangelical views of Mormonism.
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:17amSCOTT BAKER!!! SEE HOW MISLEADING YOUR HEADLINES ARE. IT DID LOOK AS IF NEWT HAD SAID THIS…>HE DID not….. HIS newly appointed Iowa Campaign person did and he stepped down immediately.
I want to know more about what is going on between YOU and BREITBART. I’m a BREITBART fan and I do not like this crazy tactic you seem to have of “TABLOID STYLE” headlines. ISN’T THE TRUTH ENOUGH FOR YOU? It sure as hell is for me.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:21am@Jubie
“sounds more like the person that told you this made up a definition that would work best to fit Mormonism and no other religion into the box.”
Actually this is pretty close to the truth. but it doesn’t make the definition invalid. This use of the term “cult’ is one invented to deal with those religions that claim to be Christian but are seen by the other Christian denominations as being different from them in a substantial way. It is an invented taxonomy (a technique that Gingrich loves to use as an intellectual) but all taxonomies are invented. Mormonism, Jehova’s Witnesses, Christian Scientists, Seventh Day Adventists, all share certain characteristics that put them outside the sphere of both normative Trinitarian religions and even outside the historical non-orthodox branches of Christianity like the Arians, Nestorians and Monophysites.
The definition isn’t created first, and then these religions are encountered and classified according to that definition.Tthese religions are encountered and the definition is created to account for the perception that they are different from Baptists, Lutherans and Catholics in a far greater way than either of those others are different from themselves. The distance between a Baptist and a Catholic, polar opposites in the realm of churches is seen as less than the distance between either of them and these new “churches”. Thus the need for a specific use of the religious word “cult” to identify them.
Report Post »Miami
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:28amJohn Birch Society…………………. enough said.
You owe me 33 minutes of my life that you wasted
By their reason we should’ve let Hitler be…
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 6:11amThis is just an excuse… to get away from a TR/Wilson PROGRESSIVE/FASCIST!
Report Post »watchmany2k
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 6:45amYou are a Christian if YOU can state:
1) Christ was with the Father from the beginning.
2) He was Born of the Virgin, became flesh on earth.
3) willingly Died on the Cross as the perfect and intended propitiation for ALL mankind’s sin.
4) Rose to life on the third day, and is seated at the right hand of the Father
5) will return to earth again in triumph to judge the living and the dead.
I don’t care if you sit quietly, or dance, wear a suit and tie, or feathers, worship in a building, a car or in the forest. there are dogmatic difference for sure, but if a man says to me he believes the 5 points above. He is my Brother (or sister) in Christ.
If he is lying to me, that is on him, not me.
Bashing a fellow Christian is like the ear telling the nose it has no place in the body because
it cannor hear.
Time to wake up, join together, or be divided on dogmatic semantics and defeated.
Report Post »The enemy is afoot, and spreading division.
watchmany2k
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 6:52amI should also add #6) that he is both the Son of God AND God, as he said himself.
Report Post »How that works out physically and in spirit, we shall see, when all is revealed to us.
HappyStretchedThin
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 8:45am@anti-Mormons
Report Post »It‘s often not productive to engage you since you’re convinced beyond the openness of mind necessary for truth to penetrate, and you’re impassioned to the point of provocation rather than serious two-way communication. But this is a public forum, and neutral readers deserve to decide for themselves.
If you want to refute claims of a religion, or denigrate someone’s beliefs, please AT LEAST get the beliefs themselves straight first:
1. Elohim as man: God the Father was God before we existed and LDS worship only Him, through His Son Jesus Christ. Since He promised his faithful the inheritance of all that He has, it is not illogical to assume that He himself may have inherited His omnipotence from elsewhere as well. This is assumption, not LDS doctrine–many believe it, but the Church doesn’t teach it.
2. Elohim as polygamist: God has sanctioned polygamy in limited conditions during limited periods and since the family structure was intended as eternal, some LDS believe polygamy exists in heaven–this is another logical assumption but the Church doesn’t teach it.
3. Jesus and Satan as older sons of God: No LDS source claims to know how many “elder” spirit-children God had, but the Bible claims a mighty archangel fell from heaven and became Satan.
4. No one claims to know where Kolob is. Don‘t know why it’s important to anyone to name a star close to which a physical location for heaven is supposed to exist. (cont.)
techengineer11
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 8:47amMiami
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:28am
John Birch Society…………………. enough said.
You owe me 33 minutes of my life that you wasted
By their reason we should’ve let Hitler be…
But it was ok to let Lenin and Stalin be? I don’t quiet get the logic. Before the outbreak of WW2 one may of put the responsibility upon Hitler for the deaths of 50-100 people but Stalin and Lenin literally millions if not 10s of millions.
But I suppose you are only capable of fast forwarding to War and are only able to consider the consequences that resulted from that War. Would we expect anything different from the typical ignorant braindead intellectually lazy Blaze reader? No. They are simply not much better than the average liberal walking the streets of America today.
Report Post »CarterWho
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 9:08am@Martinez
To know the truth about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints you really should go to mormon.org.
1. Elohim is the Hebrew name of God (The Father), Yahweh the name of the Lord (The Son).
Report Post »Don’t all Christians believe the Lord came to earth as Jesus and lived as a man and then ascended to Godhood?
2. This not an official Mormon doctrine, there are some Mormons who speculate about our Heavenly Mother and her relationship to God (The Father). But there is no scripture that clarifies such speculation.
3. We are all spiritual children, sons and daughters, of God. And yes that includes Jesus and Satan. Jesus was the ONLY begotten son of God.
4. We do call the dwelling place of God, Kolob. Whether this is a star, a planet, a galaxy or what have you, we don’t know.
5. We believe in the conception and birth of Christ as it is described in the New Testament
6. Christ said there were others he would teach who were not in Israel. (John 10:16)
7. Some Mormons have speculated on the origin of the Negroes, but there is no official church doctrine.
8. One of the groups who came to the Americas were descendents of Joseph, not Judah (not Jews).
9. The Book of Mormon gives the history of many divisions in the peoples who populated the American Continent. Some of these people had a darker skin tone. If these are the ancestors of the modern day American Indian, could be, but that is pure speculation.
10. Funny how archealogy makes news discoveries everyday
Ndbbm
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 9:21amThe Church may not be perfect but here is the archeological proof of the truth!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtq62XQ4jw
Report Post »Warrior4Zion
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 9:24amNevermind all of the Mormon stuff. Newt will appoint Bolton for Sec State and they will destroy all of Israel’s enemies. Newt is the only one that will go out and protect our ally Israel.
Report Post »lillith goby
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 9:38amLargest and most successful cult ever? Evangelicals have Mormonphobia or is that paranoia-unnatural obsession with the religious beliefs of others. In their obsession and evangelical fervor to save the world from the Mormon threat lest God destroy the US with another obama term they show more about themselves than their false witness bearing does to Mormons.
This has been going on since the founder, Joseph Smith first told pastors about his vision. Opposition grew as relatives and friends took to the new religion.
Missourians along with political pastors drove the Mormons from state. Joseph Smith killed to kill Mormon faith produced a martyr.
Driving them out of the US kept the Mormon religion undiluted.
Cult? I find the evangelical Mormon bashing more cultic and baser.
Secret? As if we had any religious secrets that haven’t been spread across the internet and on Wikkipedia. The only secret we have is how we manage to keep our cool against the un-American bigotry heaped upon us by the so-called Christians. Some make it their mission to spread their own distorted views of Mormons and Mormon beliefs on You Tube and websites to help Jesus keep the world Mormon influence free. Read and watch their stuff and decide for yourself what spirit guides them. It sure isn’t the sweet peace of Jesus IMO.
Report Post »PatriotNAmerica
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 9:42amMiami
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:28am
John Birch Society…………………. enough said.
You owe me 33 minutes of my life that you wasted
By their reason we should’ve let Hitler be…
But it was ok to let Lenin and Stalin be? I don’t quiet get the logic. Before the outbreak of WW2 one may of put the responsibility upon Hitler for the deaths of 50-100 people but Stalin and Lenin literally millions if not 10s of millions.
But I suppose you are only capable of fast forwarding to War and are only able to consider the consequences that resulted from that War. Would we expect anything different from the typical ignorant brain dead intellectually lazy Blaze reader? No. They are simply not much better than the average liberal walking the streets of America today.
Report Post »indy1
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 10:04amYes, Joseph Smith was adamant that all of Christianity was an abomination to God. Mormonism teaches that as God was once a man, man will become a god. It’s polytheism. Be proud of it. Yet dishonest Mormons want to pretend they are just a sect of monotheistic Christianity.
Report Post »FEISTY
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 10:47amGreat point. Beck is campaigning as a Mormon. GO NEWT GO!!! Fight the bomb throwers! Beck is reaching deep into his bag of tricks to discredit you. The rest of us listen to you speak, analyze your policies and hear about what you would do to return power to the States and people and we know the real truth. And if Newt get the nomination, I can wait to count how many times Beck cries and says we’re all going to hell.
Report Post »taskmaster78
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 10:50amI personally don‘t give a rat’s arse about the moron being written about but I do take offense to one claiming the Christian mantle while having his or her faith put in the LDS church. The doctrine is developed by a man who live with delusions of granger. He failed to realize one thing and that is: God does not change his mind but is the most steady in HIs declarations.
The premise is “continued revelations” and Gods being dissatisfied with the current church and pushes it aside and begins a new with Joseph Smith. Wow, anyone who puts his or her faith in that story line fails to acknowledge Gods perfection in his plain, that if anyone understood it could never come to any other conclusion but that the LDS doctrine written by JS and all other self proclaimed prophets are man made and irrelevant to Christianity.
Like most he JS had Jew envy and wanted to put himself into the blessings and promises of Israel and failed to realize those blessings are promised to Israel and to be partakers of the blessings one must become as a Jew. And today the Jew must become as a gentile to partake in the blessings of God during the “dispensation of the Grace of God”. Scripture does not contradict itself but re-inforces Gods plan.
In closing I hang my hat on this truth and yes I’ve debated the “scholarly” of the LDS on scripture but the run to JS:
Report Post »The post following this one is from Galatians and those who claim Christian faith should take heed of St Pauls words.
taskmaster78
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:00amContinued: Galatians Chapter 1-7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Please read it in context and understand the Gospel of Christ is perverted and twisted by JS and the LDS church. Being called a cult is purely semantics and one who claims himself of God must not be sucked into such quibling. But one must hold to the doctrine given by God and not a, as it is claimed, angel. It goes against all this is Holy and Good and is of God my Father. One can use these terms but it does not make them of God. Even the unlearned can understand many have come in His name and were of their father satan.
You can deny the scripture and in doing so you deny God and his word and promise along with his steadfastness. And please don’s selectively chose scriptures that suites you and your beliefs.
Report Post »ReaganBaby
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:00amAMABOKCUF
You are ignorant. Mormons are some of the nicest people I have ever met. I work with several, what is secretive about them? every question I have ever asked has been answered and explained in full. They believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world and they represent the true definition of Christians. Before you speak lies and nonsense do a little homework whether you agree with their theology or not.
Report Post »remnantofjoseph
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:15amOne cannot exercise wisdom without knowledge. Too many people have no real knowledge of Mormonism (except for what their pastors preach about it, even though they are just stating what they’ve been told too.) Find out for yourselves. Your preacher has every motive for you to NOT find out for yourself. After all, his livelihood (income) depends on you staying where you are. It‘s what’s wrong with both politics and religion today. In the LDS church, there is not a paid clergy. All motives are sincere.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:41amMartinez;
“1. Elohim(your god) used to be a man.
2. He has alot of goddess.”
Isn’t “Elohim” the Hebrew and Christian God? And what official doctrine says He used to be a [mortal] man? You’ll find none. You will, however, find ample scriture that YHWH becoming a mortal man. Is that crazy or what? (Sarc off)
“3. He has two older sons (Jesus and satan).”
YHWH was a son of Elohim. Satan was a fallen angel. Angels are identical to “sons of God” in ancient scripture. I’ll leave the rest to you to piece together.
“5. Elohim came to Earth and had sex with Mary ( Jesus’s mother).”
No official doctrine says that nor has any LDS leader said that. There are comments by LDS leaders, which i agree with, that Jesus is the Son of the Father (as oposed ot the Holy Spirit) in a manner that part ofthe Father was used to create the Son. No mention of sex though. It’s pretty much anti-Mormons who say “Mormons say God came down and had sex with Mary”. In fact, let me treat you to official doctrine regarding Mary in LDS theology in a separate post.
“6. Even though it clearly states Jesus accended to Heaven after resurection, he made a stop in the Americas?”
He ascended to the Father and then to the Americas.
Report Post »kindling
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:42amIf it is such a horrible cult, why are there so many willingly joining and changing their lives for the better? I would rather live my life as though the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints is led by Jesus and find out after I die it is not, than live my life as if it is a cult to be slamed every chance I get and end up standing before Him, and learn it was. I have done both and find my life much more peaceful and enjoyable now…..thank you very much.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:46amMartinez (con’t);
“7. Since some people were indecisive on which side to pick Jesus or satan, Elohim cursed them making them black. Glenn never talked about that subject on black people.”
Because, like your other points, that’s NOT official LDS doctrine.
“8. Jews came to the Americas and created great civilazations that no one has seen or heard of since. 9. These two tribes, one of them was cursed and turned dark. They became the American indians. The other eventually were killed by the dark jews.”
Isrealites, not necessarily Jews. But, yes. Do we know of all of America’s ancient Indian societies? Hardly. A new one was discovereed in Nicaragua just a few years ago. And it wasa *big* discovery. The rest you got right as far as I can tell.
“10. These civilzations though had steel, elephants, machines, horses, wheat, barley, grapes, roads and great cities. None of these things have been found though pre columbian time.”
Yes, no less than a few, though not all, of these things have been discovered in pre-columbian time.
Report Post »David
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:47amThough I agree with you about the religious claims of the LDS, I thought this article was about NEWT, himself, rejecting the idea of any sort of accusations (at least initial ones) against Romney (or any opposition candidate), let alone Romney’s religion! I mean… isn’t that the point of why the guy was fired? So, why in the world did you claim “Newt” was behinf, or proposing these claims? I don’t get it.
I am NOT a Newt supporter. I am behinf Newt as much as Glenn Beck would be… which would be not at all! However… I am defending him here against your inaccurate accusation against him that he is doing the exact opposite that this article is stating! For the entire reason he had the guy fired, again, is that he does not wish to come against Romney’s religion, as Romney, himself, feels, no one should judge a candidate’s religion as a qualification for president! So, Newt and Romney, “Newt-Romney” as Mrs. Bachman would say… are in sync with this believe! So… I don’t understand why you said “Newt” would suggest, say, or believe this? It was the guy he FIRED who did! And it was why newt FIRED him, proving Newt believed the opposite! So… please!
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:50amMartinez;
Here’s some official LDS doctrine on Mary. Guided by an angel, Nephi writes:
” 13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white. 14 And it came to pass that I saw the heavens open; and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me: Nephi, what beholdest thou? 15 And I said unto him: A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins. 16 And he said unto me: Knowest thou the condescension of God? 17 And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things. 18 And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh. 19 And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look! 20 And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms. 21 And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father! Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw?
(1 Nephi)
That sums it up.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:05pmIslesfordian;
To me it’s the manner in which “cult” is used. It’s used to depict a deep, dark, scary organization. Such a connotation cannot apply to “Mormonism, Jehova’s Witnesses, Christian Scientists, Seventh [or] Day Adventists“ any more than it can be used to connotate the nature of ”Baptists, Lutherans and Catholics”. recently reading Margeret Barker, she constantly calls the ancient Hebrew temple worship a “cult”. She is correct in her term use and she clearly does not use it to connotate anything demeaning.
I agree that Bergman merely wanted to use the term “cult of Mormon” in a non-attacking manner (he should not have been fired but I do credit Newt for remaining consistant in presenting a positive campaign) but look at the comments right here after reporting it. So much creepy stuff declared about Mormonism. you yourself said to Wbalzley that Martinez’ declarations of Mormonism, “The “misdirection” seems entirely your own, as you don’t address a single assertion that Martinez succinctly makes about Mormon beliefs.”. You made it sound like Martinez said something correct about Mormonism but that it was Wbalzley who is misdirecting the issues regarding Mormonism.
Do you really believe what Martinez said?
Report Post »HappyStretchedThin
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:39pm@anti-Mormons 2 (sorry for the distance, Blaze hiccuped and lost my post, then work intervened):
Report Post »5. sex with Mary?: one former church leader published a wild conjecture about that, labeled it as such, and gave no supporting evidence. No LDS believe it, and it’s simply unknown by what means Jesus was conceived. The LDS believe in a miraculous virgin conception and leave it at that.
6. This is the first one the LDS actually do believe. They just find nothing contradictory about the idea that Jesus may have ascended into heaven and then returned at various times elsewhere. The resurrected Lord ascended to heaven once after telling Mary not to touch him at the sepulchre, then spent 40 days with his Apostles, no?
7. Again, wild conjecture published by a member-leader, but labeled as such. Not church doctrine, and no one believes it anyway (there have been numerous writings condemning that theory published later by private members). Interestingly the mark of a darkened skin happens to cursed peoples in 2 biblical accounts (Cain and Ham), and in one BofM account. In all 3 cases the skin was intended as a protection to them, and did not constitute the curse in and of itself (the curse was rather removal from the lineage where blessings associated with the priesthood could be obtained). LDS believe all hereditary curses about receiving blessings through the priesthood have been lifted and retro-actively so. That part IS LDS doctrine.
rox
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:48pmWe still have freedom of religion in this country. Mormons believe in God. I’m ashamed of the “Blazer’s” remarks about the Mormon religion. Why don‘t you pick on the atheists’? Remember “Divine Providence”?
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:50pmAgree.
Also, you could add the fact that an angel appeared to Smith saying that man had changed the Bible over time & that the Book of Mormon is the penultimate book, free from all of Man’s changes, nevermind the fact that another angel apeared to Mohammed about 1200 years before and said the same thing… AND that only Smith could even see the golden plates, let alone independently interpret what was on them.
You know what they say: the easiest way to lie is to tell most of the truth with some lies sprinkled in.
Let’s see:
-the doctrine of exultation (man can ascend to godhood if he lives well enough),
-that blacks are under a divine curse & that they can go to Heaven but will only be servants there (so the best blacks can hope for in Heaven is slavery). That gem was from “apostle” Mark E. Petersen.
-That there are three heavens (“degrees of glory”) where the Bible only teaches one,
-the endowment and sealing rituals, which have no biblical basis whatsoever,
-that Jesus & Satan are brothers,
-that Jesus was the created rather than Creator (they don’t believe in the concept of a Holy Trinity),
-the practice of some (albeit not much, these days) polygamy.
My favorite Mormon belief is this: God has a wife. Mary is God’s daughter & Jesus was concieved through literal physical intimacy between Mary & God (which means she wasn’t a virgin). Here’s where it gets fun: they believe that despite these “facts,” the sex between them was neither ad
Report Post »martinez012577
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:53pm@ carterwho and other mormons
1. Yes Elohim is the Hebrew name for God, but you have twisted the facts making Christians think they are the same. That is like saying the Buddist god is the same as God.
2. Yes we believe Jesus came to this world. We dont believe God came down and had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus.
3. You say spirit children. Please fill us in on how spirit children are created. Isnt it from Elohim and his many goddess wives in heaven conceive them before they come to earth?
4. The reason the star Kolob is important is since your god was also a man at one time and through his exaltation he became a god and started his rule over the planet earth from that star.
5. You may believe that, but in Mormon writtings this is not what they believe. Mormon leadership tend to keep things that controversial away from their flock.
6. If this is so, why make two different books. One the Bible and one the book of Mormon that has contradictions and has no proof.
7. The books written by your prophets stated these things about the black races. If your prophets lied your religion is a lie.
8. DNA testing on American Indians proved they were descendents of the Mongols who came to the Americas from the Bering Straight.
9. Fake history.
10. Yet as long as the archealogy dept. at Byu has been around that have yet to find any real proof.
11. Steel bows, wheat, barley, grapes, horses, elephants, machines, giant cities, roads, gold coinage. NONE HAS BEE
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:54pmAnd then there’s the whole story about how, after Moroni gave Smith the plates, Smith had to run several miles with several golden plates weighing presumably upwards of 100 pounds, without stopping because he was being persued by people who wanted to steal the plates.
Let’s see: several miles carrying 100+ pounds of gold without stopping, and yet going fast enough that people persuing you in order to steal the gold can’t catch you.
IT’S A MIRACLE, FOLKS!
Report Post »HappyStretchedThin
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:01pm@anti-Mormons 3
Report Post »8. This is only the 2nd of your points that LDS actually believe (with latitude for the technical error of calling Manessahites Jews). Evidence of great civilizations is all over the Americas, and also evidence of their destruction, sometimes with little trace (Mayans and Incas come to mind from periods even closer to modern times). Your archaeological ignorance is staggering on this point. Furthermore their destruction is predicted and explained within the BofM itself.
9. Contrary to CarterWho’s well meaning assertions, it IS a fair assumption that the principle ancestors of Amerindians were the dark-skinned tribe. This is written in the BoM’s introduction and is accepted as scripture. Most LDS believe this, the Church teaches it, but it does not pretend to establish the genetic provenance of any given tribe and does not pretend no other peoples migrated to the Americas. DNA evidence does not contradict: http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_and_DNA_evidence
10. As to pre-columbian anachronisms cited as proof of fraud, it’s not as cut and dried as you present it: http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms
p.s. Since evidence is what you’ve been arguing on, I’ve presented sites equally biased in the LDS direction as yours have been in the opposite. May I submit that the Bible claims spiritual matters can only be understood by the spirit, therefore the best investigation is through reading the BofM itself and prayer.
HONORQUEST
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:04pmRead the freakin’ article, people. Newt didn’t say it. The guy that got canned said it. Sheesh!
Report Post »christianforever
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:11pmr
Dear Staff Members at First Baptist Dallas, October 14, 2011
I’ve tried unsuccessfully to find an email address for Dr. Robert Jeffress, so I’m sending this to all of the members on the First Baptist Dallas staff that I found listed on your website. I hope that at least one of you will forward this on to Pastor Jeffress because I feel it’s important that he have the opportunity to read and understand it.
= = =
Dear Pastor Jeffress,
I’m just one of the millions of people who saw and heard on TV news shows your statements that “Mormonism is a cult” and “not a part of orthodox Christianity”. As a faithful lifelong member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I felt a strong reaction to those statements, as you might imagine. My remarks here are only my personal thoughts, but I assure you they are heartfelt.
My reaction was twofold. First, I saw your remarks as an unfortunate “below-the-belt” swipe at Mitt Romney in the hopes of advancing your own favorite political candidate. While you certainly have the right to do that, I think many Americans join me in feeling that such a move was beneath a prominent religious leader such as yourself.
Second, as a devoted believer and follower of Jesus Christ I was saddened that you felt the need to speak out against my faith and beliefs. I’m sure there are those who think it was done with malice, but I’ll try to do the Christ-like thing and give
Report Post »christianforever
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:12pmPerhaps you’ve just been misinformed about “Mormonism” as many others have been.
But it might surprise you to learn that I actually agree with part of what you said, although perhaps for different reasons than you might imagine.
You said that Mitt Romney is “not a Christian” (and by association myself and the other six million-plus Americans who are Latter-day Saints). But I believe you need to be more specific. There are many different kinds or “flavors” of Christians. I agree that the LDS people are not Baptist Christians or Evangelical Christians or Catholic Christians, etc. I will even agree that we’re not part of “orthodox” or “traditional” flavor of Christianity, if by that you mean the post-Nicene church that became the “universal” or “catholic” version of Christendom.
I believe my faith to be the original church of the Corinthians, the Ephesians, and yes, those who were first called Christians in Antioch, – that same church now restored in these latter days. So I call myself a “latter-day Christian”, with theological roots that precede the “historical” or “orthodox” version that was the product of the various councils and creeds. That “orthodoxy” eventually became so corrupt and so apostate that the Reformers broke away from it in protest of its having “fallen away” from Biblical truths (2 Thess. 2) and “changed the ordinances” (Isa. 24:5) so that the “faith once delivered to the saints
Report Post »christianforever
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:13pmYour exact following words were: “and so by that definition it is a theological cult”. You made a weak distinction between a theological cult and a sociological one, but most people will not even notice that fine differentiation. It was obvious to any sophisticated viewer that your main goal was to keep repeating the word “cult”. It’s such an inflammatory buzz word that I’m sure your goal is to use it as often as you can to scare people away from “Mormonism” without seriously considering our theology and our beliefs. It’s a word used to end or avoid discussion, not to foster it. As a Latter-day Saint I welcome the opportunity to “stand ready to give a reason for the faith that is in me”, but those who sling around the word “cult” with respect to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seek to cut off debate rather than to encourage dialog. It’s as though they are afraid of an open and honest discussion.
But following your own definition of “cult” for a moment, I’d like to respectfully submit that:
Report Post »1. Roman Catholicism came 300 years after Jesus Christ.
2. Roman Catholicism has its own human leader, the Pope (or Peter if you accept the Catholic claims that he was the first Pope)
3. Roman Catholicism has its own set of doctrines (Mariology, transubstantiation, priestly celibacy, veneration of “saints”, indulgences, etc.)
4. Roman Catholicism has its own religious books (9 deuterocanonical more than those found in th
shandog
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:17pmWhere is the ‘arc of the covenant’? No archeological proof there either. Just a book stating it was there at one time. A bunch of people writing about what had possibly been there…hmmm..sounds familiar. People are indeed evil who think that faith in God requires proof.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:27pmMartinez;
“1. Yes Elohim is the Hebrew name for God, but you have twisted the facts making Christians think they are the same. That is like saying the Buddist god is the same as God.”
What “facts” have been twisted? The LDS believe that the Elohim in the Bible is God. Don’t conflate personal ideas with official LDS doctrine. Whatever the Bible teaches of Elohim, that’s what the LDS believe. Nothing more.
“2. Yes we believe Jesus came to this world. We dont believe God came down and had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus.”
If Jesus came tothis world and you believe that Jesus and Elohim are the same being then why is it so bizzar that you say Mormons believe Elohim was once a man? That doesn’t even begin to make sense. And sex with Mary? Huh? Mormons dont’t believe that. They don’t I tell you. It’s not found in any canon of doctrine nor has it ever been said that I am aware of. Even if it were said, again, don‘t conflate on individual’s idea with “what Mormons believe”.
“3. You say spirit children. Please fill us in on how spirit children are created. Isnt it from Elohim and his many goddess wives in heaven conceive them before they come to earth?”
Nobody knows the mechanics of how god created His spirit children. Some have speculated but nobody knows te mechanics. Never have from my knowledge.
(con’t)
Report Post »HappyStretchedThin
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:30pmChristianForever,
Report Post »You reminded me I should comment, as a linguist and lexicographer, on the use of the word “cult”.
In American English this is no longer EVER an innocent word. Historically (which is why many dictionaries still keep the term), it indicated an alternative form of worship or an organization with an alternative form of worship. If this were all that were meant by Pastor Jeffress, and Newt’s former Iowa political director, no Mormon would have a problem with that. But for that meaning, a more neutral descriptive term/phrase, such as “alternative”, “out of the mainstream”, or even “unorthodox” would get the point across WITHOUT requiring the negative baggage the term “cult” can no longer avoid.
But they don’t use THOSE words.
They INTEND to confuse the LDS with Jim Jones and David Koresh.
It’s not innocent.
Cults are organizations that brainwash, where behavior is top-down enforced, where a single charismatic leader profits by the exploitation of his followers.
None of those things accurately applies to the LDS church, whose first move is always to ask investigators to find things out for themselves, where local control is the norm, with only a small centralized handbook or two as operating procedure, and where leaders receive no direct remuneration (serving on advisory boards they make a small stipend usually, but no one gets rich that way). There’s been no major money scandals in the LDS for 180 years.
Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:36pm(con’t);
“4. The reason the star Kolob is important is since your god was also a man at one time and through his exaltation he became a god and started his rule over the planet earth from that star.”
You’re the one who believes Elohim was once a man; not Mormons. mormons believe YHWH was once a man; not Elohim. And the only mention of Kolob in official LDS doctrine was to prepare Abraham to go unto the Egyptians. My view is that it was to take what the Egyptians believed and use it to teach God’s word. Kolob is not “so important’ in Mormon beliefs. Mormons believe it‘s there and that’s it. You can say Mormons believe that symbolically approaching Kolob is like approaching God but that’s only metaphoric. Mormons believe that the only way to the Father (Elohim) is through the Son.
“5. You may believe that, but in Mormon writtings this is not what they believe. Mormon leadership tend to keep things that controversial away from their flock.”
You presumptions seem to hold no bounds.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:41pm(con’t)
“6. If this is so, why make two different books. One the Bible and one the book of Mormon that has contradictions and has no proof.”
What contradictions inthe Book of Mormon? And do you believe the bible to be the word of God becuase o the science of man? Do explain. I’m truly curious. I know it’s the word of God by the Holy Spirit; not by man’s science. You seem to be rendering unto Ceassar that which is God’s. That’s not how it works but I do suspect that you know that.
“7. The books written by your prophets stated these things about the black races. If your prophets lied your religion is a lie.”
The prophets speculated. Prophets are nothing mre than imperfect men called by God. They are, therefore, subject to the limitations of imperfection. There was no formal revelation given to the LDS Church regarding blacks that i am aware of. I will provide you a link which gives an excellent outline of blacks in the LDS Church as well as in society in general.
http://www.blacklds.org/history
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:47pm(con’t);
“8. DNA testing on American Indians proved they were descendents of the Mongols who came to the Americas from the Bering Straight.”
Those who have said as much are very premature and very unscientific. There has never been a formal study as to the DNA origins of Native Americans that I am aware of. You’re also assuming omniscience in the fied of DNA testing, also very unscientific. Besudes, you’re excluding the latest DNA discoveries of DNA and Native americans. that would be Haplogroup X. This form of DNA is unique to certain Native American tribes as well as to Europeans and particularly to Isrealis. There are no nown Asian groups to carry the Haplogroup X gene. Unlike the anti-Mormon crowds who very quickly and presumptuously cry, “see the Book of mormon is false, and DNA proves it,” I do not say that the discovery of Haplogroup X proves any truth of the Book of Mormon. That‘s between you and God’s Holy Spirit. It does, however, at least scienetifically, open the possibility of European and Isreali groups coming to the Americas. And, no post-Columbian mixtures are not included,. That’s been fitered out.
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/DNA.shtml#x
(con’t)
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:54pm“9. Fake history.”
If you say so. Tell me fof the archological evidence regarding King David’s reign over Jrusalem and of what today is more or less modern-day Isreal in ancient times. I guess you think that portion ofthe Bible is fake as well. Either that or you are not consistent. Sad either way.
“10. Yet as long as the archealogy dept. at Byu has been around that have yet to find any real proof.”
“Proof” has been forthcoming. Archeology of the New World is very much in its infancy compared to archeology of the Old World. but, interestingly enough, archeology has moved more towards the authenticiy of the Book of Mormon. But either way, it makes no difference to me. I know that book is true not by man’s science but by my faith in God. You can too.
“11. Steel bows, wheat, barley, grapes, horses, elephants, machines, giant cities, roads, gold coinage.”
Elephants (mammoths) were very much part of American history, or ,at least pre-history. The only mention of them would be among the Jaradites which would date around 2,500 BC. Mammoths were believe to have gone extinct hundreds of thousands of years ago but discoveries in Mexico I believe placed that to around 8,000 to 10,000 BC. Not in the Jaradite range but that’s a significant change in time and location of mammoths.
(con’t)
Report Post »SouthSideLib
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:55pmSounds like christianity to me
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 2:01pm(con’t);
Steel bows are entioned once I believe (I could be wrong). It was mentioned ot having been possessed by Nephi which he had in the Old World. This brings t mind something inofrmatinve, that the best archeological evidence of the Book of mormon is not in the New World, which, as I stated earlier, is really in its infancy, but by comparing Book of Mormon texts to that of locations inthe Old World. Not notable is Nephi’s journey intothe wilderness. In the text it is said that he and his group discovered Bountiful and Nahom. that Ishmeal died and was burried in Nahom. Following Nephi’s route, from Jerusalem, one can find and oasis inthe desert, just as described in the BoM and contine the direction described in there one can fnd an ancient place with NHM inscribed within it and tha this place was a place of burial. NHM also has Hebrew roots in words describing mourning or lamentations.
http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml#geography
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 2:03pmHappy;
“They INTEND to confuse the LDS with Jim Jones and David Koresh.
It’s not innocent.”
I think you are correct. That makes me happy. ;>)
Report Post »DrFrost
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 2:12pmIf you’re a catholic or a protestant, you can’t really be a true adherant to your religion WITHOUT considering the mormon faith unorthodox (i.e. a cult). If you truly believe mormonism to be orthodox, if you truly believe Joseph Smith, then you have to believe that protestant and catholic beliefs are an abomination and that the church of Mormon is the only true church (that’s what Joseph Smith said) and you‘re probably a mormon but you’re definitely not a protestant or catholic.
The word cult has also been, appropriately, applied to other situations that were much more unorthodox and/or more…. twisted. This DOES NOT IMPLY that mormonism is equivalent to… what happened in Waco or what happened in Jonestown. But for a protestant or catholic to apply the word cult to mormonism is entirely appropriate. It simply means they disagree on some fundamental doctrine.
The fact that this man lost his job is unfortunate. People need to have a thicker skin and consider what people are saying before reacting.
Report Post »aggiejags
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 3:54pmThose who are using the genetics argument obviously have never studied genetics in their life. If one went back 30 generations in a family, you have a 1 in 10 BILLION chance that you share a gene with your ancestor that far back. For The Book of Mormon, you’d have to go back at least 78 generations. Furthermore, there is introgression, also known as a bottleneck, which occurred right after the Spanish came, so even if there were Josephite genes, chances are they’d probably be drowned out. The Book of Mormon never makes the claim that the Lehites were all alone. The Mayans were probably here, there were probably splinters of the Jaredites, and a party of 20 couples going into the already existing lineage of the people in Mesoamerica could easily be drowned out. There have been no specific tests performed to test scientifically the authenticity of the Book of Mormon with DNA evidence. Furthermore, any “research” against the Book of Mormon has not been peer-reviewed by a scientific funding agency. If you base research off of something that’s not peer-reviewed, it is highly discredited in scholarly circles. The absence of proof is not the proof of absence.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:05pmDrFrost;
“If you’re a catholic or a protestant, you can’t really be a true adherant to your religion WITHOUT considering the mormon faith unorthodox (i.e. a cult). ”
You’re correct in that Mormon theology does NOT adhire to traditions of Christianity. It’s rejection of the Holy Trinity is a prime example of its unorthodoxy. However, the LDS *is* a Christian religion. It absolutely believes that Jesus Christ is the center of all the eternites and particularly for salvation. The problem is when you say, “cult” is the stigma of there being a dark and dreadful setting behind the faith. Its’ absurd.
“if you truly believe Joseph Smith, then you have to believe that protestant and catholic beliefs are an abomination and that the church of Mormon is the only true church (that’s what Joseph Smith said) and you‘re probably a mormon but you’re definitely not a protestant or catholic”
It’s correct that Mormons are neither Catholic, nor Protestant; but they are Christian. Also, Joseph Smith said that other’s faiths *creeds* are an abomination. “19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight” (Joseph Smith History). this includes the nicene Creed and any other creed which removes the bible from a doctrinal standpoint and places it on a philosophical one. Joseph Smith‘s callng was to restore all God’s truths.
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 5:15pm@ HappyStretchedThin
Here’s a question for ya…
Is there a site, any site at all, that presents a refutation to your beliefs that you don’t consider anti-Mormon? BTW: presenting Mormon sites as proof of Mormon beliefs smacks of bias. I guess you could say the same about sites critical of and outright disproving Mormonism, but I’m fairly certain that anyone outside of your cult, who hasn’t been indoctrinated into it, and who knows the true Word of God, can look at Moron -er Moroni’s claims and see right through them for the crap that they are.
Mormons like to claim you’re the closest to 1st Century Christian beliefs. Show me in the King James (not your Book of Crap) where it says anything about ascending to godhood for living a good life, or that blacks were cursed by God, or that UFO’s dropped thetons into volvcanoe… uh… sorry. Got you guys mixed up with the other American-made loonbag cult.
Report Post »Doctor Nordo
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 6:23pm@@LEFTFIGHTER
“Mormons like to claim you’re the closest to 1st Century Christian beliefs. Show me in the King James (not your Book of Crap) where it says anything about ascending to godhood for living a good life”
Just off the top of my head, Romans 8:17
“…or that blacks were cursed by God…”
I can’t think of any doctrine that specifically makes that statement.
Report Post »HappyStretchedThin
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 7:34pm@Leftfighter
Report Post »Sorry bro. Not the way I roll. I’m happy to entertain any and all genuine questions, but the evidence is that there’s no sincere desire to understand on your part. You’re not asking a question, you’re trying to pick a fight (which, btw, isn’t how Christ rolled either).
No ill-will intended to you personally, but when you’d like to come to the proverbial Chevy owner to find out his experience on a Chevy, rather than asking at the Ford dealership, I’ll be happy to start from the beginning with you.
On the other hand, for all neutral, truly curious readers out there who won‘t call a book they’ve never read a “Book of Crap”, just to leave you with the (true!) flavor that this PhD in literature (i.e. reading and interpreting skills) has not found a shred of doctrinal discrepancy between the Book of Mormon and the Bible. To be sure, there are those who interpret the Bible differently, but that’s only where the words themselves offer room for interpretation.
LDS doctrine states no one can be exalted based on works alone, but only through Christ. But those who DO, inherit all God has, as from the KJV:http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/rom/8.16-17?lang=eng#16
LDS doctrine takes the curses on Cain and Ham in the KJV to come with a mark of darkened skin coloring. As I stated before, this doesn’t make them inferior, but did historically exclude them from blessings. The fact that God also restricted priesthood blessings to the Hebrews, doesn’t make Him racist eit
Darren
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:46amLeftfighter;
‘Mormons like to claim you’re the closest to 1st Century Christian beliefs. Show me in the King James (not your Book of Crap) where it says anything about ascending to godhood for living a good life”
1st century Christians did not say the Holy Trinity. Tertullian spoke of a trinity in that the Father, the Son , and the holy Ghost shared the same substance but he believed in the corporeality of the three persons of the Godhead/trinity. The substance he referred to seems clearly referring to their respective bodies; not of being “one (mono) being”. Justin Matrin spoke of a “second god” to the Jew trypho. trinitarians say these two, and others, believed in the holy Trinity but to me it seems that they view the Holy Trinity according to the 4th Century creeds declaring the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, being of “one [physical] substance” and later of one essence. These created a paradox by which subsequent Christians view the past. That all Christians, and Jews before them, believed in a Holy Trinity. The fact oftha matter is that when you trace “Holy Trinity” back, it was mentioned by Tertullian (who later left the Christian Church) but no mention at all anywhere in the new or old testaments. Nor is there any mention of “substance” or “essence”. “one” meant unity.
(con’t)
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:55am(con’t);
Before showing you in the “non-caca” scriptures about ascending to godhood, let me offer you and exemplary essay which explores early Christian’s view of deification. This essay shows the view of deification from the Hebrews, pagans, and Christians and in particular the scriptures used by the early Christians to believe that man is to become like God through Christ. The essay focuses on the arguments made by Athanasius. Athanasius was the primary orator against Arius in the Council of Nicea which resulted in the Nicene Creed which declared the Holy Trinity. Athanasius disagreed with arius and the Arians who taught that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were separate divine beings yet the latter two were subject or subordinate unto the Father. (That, by the way, is precisely what LDS theology teaches.) People today say that Arius denied that Christ was divine. It‘s hard ot say for sure since all of Arius’ writings were burned in the Council of Nicea. Anyhow, Athanasius, in his defense of the physical oness of the three divine beings, became more and more vocal about man becoming like God through Christ. This was the predominate thought at the time and carried on for a while after the Council of Nicea. It carried on even further withthe eatern Christians, I think until around 600 AD. Enjoy reading: http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/papers/?paperID=5&chapterID=36
(con’t)
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:10am(con’t)
Now, to show you from non-caca bscriptures deification. When Jesus was charged with blasphemy by te Jews for saying He was the Son of God, Jesus replied to them, ” 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?” (John 10). This was a direct reference to Psalms 82:6, “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.“ Being a ”god” a child of the most High (Elohim) in and of itself shows a lot of inherited potential. The “most High” is infinitely potent and thus if we are children of an infinitely potent being then we inherent at the very least a otential to gain tha potency, no?
Obviously man is imperfect but can he be made perfect like unto the “most High”? When preaching at the Seromn at the mount, Jesus dcommanded the peple gathered, “48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Mathew 5). Would Christ charge people to do something they cannot do? Of course not, such a conclusion would stare reason in the face and deny it. how this is done is through Christ and Christ alone. ” 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.” (Romans 8) Being a “joint-heir” with Christ. What does Christ have? Why all that the Fathers has. (con’t)
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:20am(con’t)
In Ephisians 4:13 we read, “13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:” Perfection is clearly done by and through Christ, it cannot be achieved by any man. The LDS do not belive that an “earns” his salvation, but rather obedience to the commandments of God and through faith n Christ all of the Fther’s blessings will be made available to such.
This all leads the faithful to “become one’ with the “most High”. In Jesus’ great Intercessory Prayer, the lord spoke these words, ‘ 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:” (John 17). Here Jesus calls for the oness of the faithful and note His words: to be one in Him *as* He is one with the Father.
As early Christians believed (paraphrasing), “God became man so that man may become like God”, this teaching is clear in the scriptures. Yet it has become lost in time. Just as the Athanasian essay shows how Christians historically lost the belief that man may becomne like God, this is doctrinally lost as well. The LDS church restored this graceful truth to man.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:31am(Second Post)
Aggiejags;
You make excellent points. This may also be of interest:
“Quipu at Caral
The recovery of quipu from the civilization of Caral, if the context and dates are correct, suggests several things. First, this is additional evidence that Caral was a precursor to the Inca civilization (since the Incas also used quipu). Secondly, quipu as a tradition dates at least 2000 years older than we recognized prior to this point. Thirdly, and most importantly, if quipu were indeed a form of written communication, they are among the earliest forms of writing in the world, only slightly younger than cuneiform, which has been identified at the Mesopotamian site of Uruk approximately 3000 years BC.
As a very recently identified civilization of the world, Caral has the potential to help us rewrite human history.”
I believe this was published in 2007. A new discovery which may rewrite the history of the world? Go figure. Anyone who speaks as if they are omniscient about man’s science are gravely fooling themselves .
http://archaeology.about.com/od/ancientwriting/a/caralquipu.htm
Report Post »HAPPYRWE
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 12:45pmNo it’s not, period.
I joined the church 12 years ago and the whole part of converting is that it has to be done on your own. No one can convert you, the Spirit does it, it is very powerful, fulfilling and eye-opening. We believe in revelation as being directly from God, and it can come to a person individually based on his or her firm desire to know God’s will and truth. Nothing compares to filling the void a person feels, the gift of the Holy Ghost fills that empty, lost, void deep inside one’s soul.
The temple is sacred and holy and clean and peaceful. Everything adds up and coming to a knowledge of things after years of wondering, praying and pondering is true freedom, joy and hope. It does not matter what you think or what you assume, this “marvelous work and a wonder” will continue on and roll forth bringing light to the world.
No one knows the whole truth and nothing but the truth till they submerse themselves into complete prayer and study, asking God with a pure and sincere heart what the truth is, asking the right questions, then waiting until God answers them. The Church is simple, sweet and pure. Confusion and disdain comes from simple ignorance or from a hard heart or anger towards the church. Members are not perfect but the beauty and peace of the Gospel comes from the amazing gift of the Holy Ghost, knowing for oneself what “God’s truth is”.
-That being said I still will not vote for Romney- Socialist in Conservatives clothing…….
Report Post »Freedomtothink
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:37pmI‘m not a Mitt or Newt fan but this guy decided to quit and he’s gone. Why are we discussing what an unemployed X-campaign worker thinks?
Report Post »Rached Madcow SHOW
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:36pmI don’t know what disturbs me most; Glenns’ new behavior or his new friends.
Report Post »Jefferson
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:43pmWhy does GB surprise you? He calls himself a “rodeo clown.”
Here’s the surprise. You’re the bull, and GB is distracting you from the man riding on your back. Chew on that cud for a minute.
Newt and that creep Bolton would have us in the middle of WWIII in a matter of months. They‘re both power hungry blood thirsty radical nuts that don’t need to be anywhere NEAR command of our armed services.
We might be closer than we think. Things are heating up in the Gulf.
Vote for who the troops overwhelmingly want.
Report Post »http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/jul/23/ron-paul/ron-paul-says-members-military-have-given-him-far-/
THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:52pmAnd exactly who are his new friends? Freedom? Liberty? Truth? Honesty? Integrity? Love of Country? Constitution? Justice? I think I like ALL of his new friends!
Report Post »wbalzley
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 3:11am@Jefferson: I have not been able to watch Glenn for the past year, but I have been concerned about his dogmatic stance on several issues for a while now. In particular I have been offended by the way he belittles solar technology. On the one hand he praises American ingenuity and on the other he denigrates our attempts to harness the power of the sun.
We are making great progress. Conversion efficiency is UP costs are DOWN, and with the advances made in the past year the price of solar could match that of coal within the next two years. We can even produce it cheaper than CHINA. We OWN this technology!
I also don’t like his dogmatic defense of Corporate Power, or his promotion of gold as money. It is as though he thinks that doing the polar opposite of what we are now will solve all our problems. The solution to inflation must be DEFLATION! Too much debt? Cut all government programs! Economy sluggish? Cut corporate taxes and de-regulate, de-regulate, de-regulate!
…Sorry, I kindof went off there…I’ll be quiet now…
Report Post »CanadaKen
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:11am@wbalzley
Does Solyndra ring a bell? We have been working on solar energy for over 40 years and the greens keep saying every year ” Just a few more years and more of your money, just a little longer.”
What Glen is saying is let the private sector do it and get the government out of it. American ingenuity comes from the private sector not big government.
Report Post »wbalzley
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 8:13am@Canadaken: Solyndra is a slam-dunk case for the failures of Crony-Socialism, Obama bet on a lousy company with crappy technology. Thanks to DARPA-E there are MUCH better solar technologies that should hit the market in the next two years that boost efficiencies from 20% to 40% and cut the total cost of ownership in HALF.
Thanks to the billions of dollars poured into research, our universities, working with private industry, are moving technology from lab to market in record times. Because the tecnology is similar to computer chips we are seeing a Moore’s Law type progression. At this rate, the cost of solar energy will equal that of coal (without subsidies) by 2015, and drop every year after that.
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 8:38am@wbalzley —You posted(in part) ” Obama bet on a lousy company with crappy technology.”…..While fully understanding your point I question that it was a Bet, He did it with others money. To me that’s not a bet but a person who took others money and “gave ” it to a friend.
Report Post »watchmany2k
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:29pm@wbalzl\ey
efficient ? NOT even close.
The average home consumes 2KW a day.
To capture enough of the sun’s energy to replace what comes down the grid
is approx. $20- 30K in solar panels and equipment
all to replace a $1200 a year electric bill
the time to break even aka simple payback is 25+ years
even the BEST current panel has a lifetime of 20-25 years and their output degrades over time.
cost effective is 5 year payback or less.
It would be cheaper to purchase a propane powered generator than install solar.
will a panel produce electricity ? yep, but not enough, and certainly NOT cost effectively.
is a given panel more efficient than those of yesteryear ? yep, they now convert 20% of the energy in sunlight for the “best” most expensive models.
what most people forget is that those solar homes covered in panels, have zero storage capacity
which requires some grid consumption, or a further investment in batteries and their maintainence costs.
It is cheaper to go off grid, build out a battery bank, and charge them with a powered generator
than it is to cover the roof in panels.
DO the math.
http://www.watchman2012.com
Report Post »You’ll find real alternatives there…
wbalzley
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 7:38am@Watchmany2K: I am glad to see that you are paying attention to the actual economics of solar rather than getting distracted by the politics. However, it seems that you are a little behind on your numbers. The technology is evolving rapidly and it is hard to keep up.
The best panels on the market today are 40% efficient, and there are photonic coatings that could push efficiencies up to 10% higher while adding minimal cost. Also, recent developments in manufacturing could cut the cost of production in HALF by the end of next year.
You are correct that solar is too expensive TODAY, but within 2 years the cost of solar will drop to $.06 per kwh–comparable to coal. Within 5 more years, the cost will be cut in half again as we learn to tap into the infa-red spectrum and achieve 75-80% efficiencies.
As for storage, MIT has developed a cheap, efficient method of electrolysis that can be used to produce hydrogen fuel. This can be used to generate electricity or run your car. The economic potential for solar is really impressive.
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:31pmNewt belongs in jail, not running for the presidency. http://www.newtexposed.com
Come on Evangelicals you are selling your souls.
Report Post »Miami
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:40pmWhat…!?
What ever for?
Report Post »THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:00am@Miami
Report Post »Your selling them for more of the same corruption and homegrown terrorist policies of the progressives, The real problem you have is that you cant seem to diffetentiate between a progressive democrat or a progressive republican…what your failing to see is that THEY ARE BOTH progressives…it is the polices they cram through in the dark of night or hidden inside some obscure farm bill that is catching up with us quick, and if they can’t get their way slipping thier unconstitutional policies in a bill they just create some under the disguise of “ the war on terrorism” these are things you should already know if in fact you are a conservative, if this seems strange to you it’s because your not who you think you are, in your mind you say you are conservative but the people you support and your arguments are not those of a conservative.
Miami
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:30amTHE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
You sound like the Obama sheeple that believed he would heal the world, cure the none existent Global warming and everyone would love us.
Considering a third party is insane and will give over a second term to Zero
If Paul gets the nomination I’ll vote for him, If Bachmann gets it I will vote for her and if anyone else wins it I will vote for them.
Creating the hatred toward any of our candidates that’s burning bridges that will not allow some to vote for them.
Report Post »THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:42am@miami
Report Post »Watch this and see if I’m wrong…If Iam I will apologize to you
http://vimeo.com/6445068
wbalzley
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:04am@The Truth: WOW…He lost my vote when he voted for NAFTA…I lost my business due to that piece of legislation…
Report Post »Miami
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:29amJohn Birch Society enough said.
You owe me 33 minutes
Report Post »THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:25pm@Miami
I owe you thirty three minutes but not an aploogy! Lol
Report Post »HAPPYRWE
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:19pmIt is as simple as studying Communism.( Communism: The Deceitful Lie) All but Paul are socialist, I don’t know enough about Bachman, but she did vote against the Constitution many times??!!
Newt is a Progressive, he is a Socialist, he is not a Conservative, no matter what he says he is. Look at his voting record and his true beliefs…………sigh
Report Post »PJL
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:29pmSo tired of these stupid bigots that are speaking out of their butts against Latter Day Saints. Idiots!
Report Post »neverending
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:42pmYou and me both.
Report Post »db321
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:01amWhat does God says about the Mormon Bible. Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
I ask you? What is the Mormon Bible – I have no problem with Mormon’s – I just wont allow myself to learn from a Bible that adds to the word of God.
Report Post »jdog777
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:09amDB321…. LOL. If you understand that cannonization of the Bible, this scripture would disavow half of the New Testament. The truth is… The BOOK of REVELATIONS was referring to the BOOK of Revelations, not additional scripture. Tell your pastor to spend a little more time on the facts and the history of the book instead of his nonsense.
Report Post »PGMike
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:14am@DB
Report Post »Quick question for you. “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.” What book do you think John is referring to? Any honest study will show you he was referring to the book of Revelation not the Bible as a whole. The Bible was not even compiled in it’s present form until many, many years after the Book of Revelation was written. Also, there is much evidence that several of the books of the Bible were written after John wrote the Book of Revelation. If you carefully study the Bible you will find almost the same wording in Duet. as well.
Try reading the Book of Mormon for yourself and then see how you feel about it.
Grannie4news
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 2:14amIngnorance is bliss I guess. It does get tiresome seeing so many experts on the subject of Latter
Report Post »Day Saints, when they are either going by something they have heard or read and they really do not know enough about to even be offering an opinion. Secret rituals? NOT! They are sacred. I remember before I joined the Church, all the stories I heard and I thought the Book of Mormon was just something Joseph Smith or Brigham Young just made up. But when I read it I realized it was truly
a blessed history of the American Continent and the descendants of Joseph who came here from Jerusalem. I feel sorry for those who have eyes but don‘t see and ears that don’t hear. By their works ye shall know them it says in the Bible. All of you critics of our church should go to Morman.org which was set up so people like you could see just shat our beliefs are and not by word of mouth.
HAPPYRWE
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:23pmDB321 —tons of scripture in the Bible- Isaiah, Revelations, Ezekiel, Job….that prophecy of the “refreshing”, “restoration”, God sets his had a “second time”, tons of scripture that prophecy of the coming of the Book of Mormon and the restoration of the gospel…..it’s in there you just have to ask the Spirit to guide and not assume or “privately interpret” scripture……..The Bible and The Book of Mormon make perfect sense together-Two sticks…………
Report Post »ConstitutionFreedomLover
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 7:57pm@ron.brown…look at those religions that are right now in this century rewriting the bible…to fit what they want the bible to say. Just because they want it to be easily understood by people with there own interpretations. If you would actually do your OWN homework and read a copy of the Book Of Mormon and pray about it. Then you just might understand what it is really saying to everyone. The Book Of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ. It is not a Bible. By saying what you have you are showing ignorance, and shameful cowardiceness. Just like all the rest.
Report Post »12thArticle
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:28pmI stand continually amazed at the bigotry exhibited towards the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I guess its OK for Christians to judge others when their own religious creeds and doctrines are based on political councils convened 400 years after Christ and that most of those hammering a religion founded in 1830 are themselves adherents to religions started in the 1500′s, 1600‘s and 1700’s by people like Calvin, Luther and others who chose to break off from an old Catholic church they could no longer agree with. Go figure.
Report Post »UFOCPrez
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:42pmAren’t you doing the same? I‘m a Christian and I certainly don’t think Mormon’s are a cult, but I‘m not going to defend my position while bashing someone else’s. You are no different.
Report Post »ron.brown
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:47pmUmm..yeah all those religions you listed didn’t re-write the bible or come up with one of their own…they kept the same word of God and Christ and followed doctrine in the way that they interpreted it. For the record…Catholicism is a cult too. My Bible tells me to pray to GOD through Jesus Christ, not to pray to Mary, or the Saints. My Bible says that ““You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.” Therefore the statues of and praying to Mary are sins. Furthermore, my Bible says that “No man has seen God and lived” so I guess that makes Joseph Smith a liar. Newt is an idiot Big Government Progressive and Hypocrite!
Report Post »12thArticle
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:16amUFOCPREZ – I don’t begrudge anyone for their beliefs but I was only pointing out some historical similarities between the founding of Mormonism and other religions that others often site for why Mormonism is a cult. If that makes me guilty of bashing, then so be it.
Report Post »GeddyWanaBe
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:25amUFOCPREZ – 12THARTICLE is not bashing, just recounting history.
RON.BROWN – Look up some biblical scholarship and you’ll see that much was left out of the Bible and many transcribers put their own slant on the Bible. Luckily there is still enough left to get an idea of what Christ and the Apostles taught. Even with that much of the Bible is ignored by traditional Christianity. Some baptise, some don‘t some don’t think you need to do anything except recite a cute little prayer, which is in direct contradiction to the bible. Some doctrines (the trinity) are no where to be found in the Bible. How can you call Catholicism a cult when their the ones that decide on what went into the Bible. Technically speaking, the Bible is a Catholic book. Your graven image is the Cross. If no man has seen God and Lived, how did Moses and the Apostles see him? Believe what you want but Joseph Smith searched the truth without bias and found God, was commanded to translate a book that testified of the divinity of Christ and testified of him being the Son of God. The purpose of the Book of Mormon is to testify of Christ – pity those who only believe the haters and don’t take an honest look for themselves.
Report Post »12thArticle
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:28amMr. Ron.Brown says: “my Bible says that “No man has seen God and lived” so I guess that makes Joseph Smith a liar.” How does that make Joseph Smith a liar when that verse in the Bible was written in past tense and penned 1800 years before Joseph Smith was born. (Where does it say that just because it hasn‘t happened that it Can’t happen? ) Besides, does that mean that writer of the Book of Acts was also a liar by saying Steven saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God as he was being stoned?
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 3:58am@ 12tharticle
Report Post »While there is only one Jesus Christ, we mortals have adopted various understandings of Him.
(1) Homoousian — Nicean (“Trinitarian”) Christians (the majority of Christians).
(2) Homoiousian — Christians beleiving that Jesus and God the Father are of similar (but not the same) substance.
(3) Heteroousian — Christians believing that the substance and nature of God the Father and Jesus are different.
Traditionally, Homoousian Christians have been less accepting of other Christians. Not that there’s anything WRONG with that.
HAPPYRWE
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:30pmIt does not bother me…those who truly want to seek and know God’s will and truth with go through the process, others will just judge from the outside. Equation is easy Ask + Seek = Find.
Report Post »I will always be wholeheartedly grateful for the knowledge and truth God has allowed me to have after much sacrifice on my part and complete willingness to let God lead me.
We can all go back and forth with scripture all day, it takes one step complete submission to the Father, God the Father, and asking Him, believing He will answer, and waiting for Him to answer…most people don’t have the patience and humility…….
nmontague
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:28pmI’m sure Romney and Huntsman would welcome his support no matter what Newt thinks.
Report Post »CS Lewis FAN
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:11pmNewt obviously is distancing himself from this because he wants as much Mormon votes as possible from Mitt. But that is with the presumption that Mormons are stupid enough to vote for someone just because they, too, are Mormon. Can you say “Harry Reid”? He’s supposed to be Mormon and supports abortion…how’s that interview going to go at judgment day? Better question is how anyone support murder and claim to be Christian?
Report Post »I’m Mormon and I have more concerns about Romney now than I did 4 years ago.
But everything I read about Ron Paul makes me like him more…..Ron Paul 2012 !!!
gogogoff
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:28pmyou do understand the Church and Ron’s views are 180, on Drugs, and Gay marriage….
Report Post »tersky
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:28pmBeing from Arizona, Newt would have to be an absolute idiot to say anything against the LDS church and its membership. Heck, much of Arizona is just as Mormonville as Utah.
Report Post »ImmediateRealityCheck
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:37pmThe LDS should be afraid, very afraid, if Romney gets the Republican nomination. The Democrats have been strangely low-key in their opposition to Romney with only a token opposition compared to the frontal assault given Palin, Backman, Perry, Cain and now Newt. It reminds me of a gerbil we had that was furiously trying to find a way out of his cage. What he didn’t know was that our cat was watching with intense interest hoping the gerbil succeeded. The White House would love to have Romney as their opponent, even aiding in that outcome by not baring their fangs too early. As soon as Romney escapes the Nominating Process cage, he will be immediately faced with denying his faith’s basic tenants or being eaten alive by defending those tenants. And what a target-rich environment that would be. One certainty that he will play the Race Card to get back the Black vote by exposing that according to the LDS Blacks are the result of Cain’s Curse. In fact his surrogates have already floated this as a trial ballon. And if the LDS leaders think the White House and their surrogates wouldn‘t dare touch this subject because they avoided Obama’s association with Jeremiah Wright and his church, they are in for a rude awakening. Be prepared for the most vicious examination of Mormonism ever witnessed since the 1800′s. The Cat is waiting.
Report Post »Shane74
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:46pm@Gogoff
Have you heard Ron Paul’s religious views? Your inability to separate law from theology doesn’t really work in context to Jesus.
The “war on drugs” is an unending failure. Drugs will always exist. So will people who search them out.
Will legalizing them make you suddenly lose all control? Will you wake up one day suddenly needing a fix or something?
Making alcohol illegal didn’t help anything at all, and spun all sorts of crime cartels.
Sort of like the “war on drugs”.
Report Post »AlterReason
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:48pmthe mormon church advocates free agency…..it is your choice to make the right one…
Report Post »celestialfire
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 10:40aminteresting analogy and insight
Report Post »HAPPYRWE
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 1:37pmThank you Shane74 — Skousen, Benson others spoke out against Communism too and many of our church members are still lost to Progressivism (Romney)
Report Post »Ron Paul 2012
We are slaves to a big, greedy, evil government because we can’t think for ourselves. The Constitution is about states rights, government in the hands of the people. I guess people still want the government telling us what we should do like “Just Say No” that wonderful war against drugs……that really worked!!! People don‘t understand God and they don’t understand freedom………
THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:09pmNewts big government ship is sinking fast, WE THE PEOPLE see him for what he is…A fat, bloated, power hungry wart hog, and thats giving him a compliment.
Report Post »neverending
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:47pmThat is a compliment indeed.
Report Post »12thArticle
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 8:44am…But why are you slandering warthogs so?
Report Post »THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:06pmWow, for all the truth that newt is supposed to stand for…Didnt he just get done saying Palestinians were invented..because it is the truth! ..and than his manager says mormonism is a cult..which is the truth!..and he fires him??? Lol..you gotta love progressive flip floppers. ( After you round them up and hang them for treason)
Report Post »bernieyuiop
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:04pmI don’t get it? What did he say that was so bad? That the Mormon faith was a cult? All religions are cults. Some are just bigger that others. Some are just crazier that others. It’s a sliding scale of lunacy. On one end you have people waiting for Jesus on another people waiting for the 12th Imam. Some are pacifists some are wiling to blow themselves up for what they believe. Mormonism certainly qualifies as a cult, just like all the rest.
Report Post »THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:11pmYou have just seen newt flip flop..lol
Report Post »Miami
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:14pmOne small difference Christianity believes in freedom of choice and can coexist with other faiths or none faiths which is a faith on to its self and Muslim’s do not, it’s mandatory, convert or die.
Report Post »No matter how you shape yourself, the freedom you enjoy was given to you by a Christian
stage9
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:04pmUm, mormonism IS a cult…
The Bible vs Mormonism
Report Post »http://sourceflix.com/the-bible-vs-joseph-smith-official-release/
azitdad
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:14pmYour real name must be Obama?
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:28pmThe Christian Taliban is at it again. You are no different than your counterpart “radical Islam”. You have no tolerance for others. You condemn people to hell, and you hate others irrationally (Mormons, Jews, Catholics) like the Muslims hate the Jews.
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:57pmYou can just feel the “Christian” love! Wow what church do you go to? It must be a great place to take your children for Sunday school so they can learn to hate like a true “Christian”. Do they sing “and we will know they are Christian by their hate, by their hate”? Talk about lost.
Report Post »Are you still there or did you get Raptured?
Miami
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:01pmIt may have something to do with the scorched earth attack Glenn have been waging, while side stepping Romney for much of the same.
It could be a swipe at Glenn as well as Mitt…?
Still wrong and indefensible
Report Post »gogogoff
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:29pmSide stepping Romney, and attacking Newt ??? ROFL ignorance is bliss ? Beck has been BLASTING Romney as well!
Report Post »Miami
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 7:15amYes he has dedicated a week to tearing him down 5 hours a day and that is just this far.
Report Post »martinez012577
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:00pmIts not like Gingrich said it. Once again a overblown story. If this is the reason you dont want to vote for Newt you are a dummy. Newts record is what should keep him from getting elected. Not some comment some no name guy working for his campaign said about some cult.
Report Post »HarmonyCorruption
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:15pmRecord should be all people need, but for some rhetoric is the way more important…don’t ask me why.
Report Post »martinez012577
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:57pmSo much Mormon stuff on here these days.
Report Post »wbalzley
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 4:27amIt is a hot topic these days…don’t worry after Romney gets elected nobody will care anymore, just like nobody cared about Catholicism after JFK was elected…
Report Post »GeorgieJo
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:56pmANYBODY know Obummer’s RELIGION?
IF you do—-shout it out—so the CROWS will know where to roost???
Liberals love to disgrace religion but they sure did love JFK—-THE FIRST IRISH CATHOLIC president.
Report Post »As a child I ask my father…whats the big deal about JFK being Catholic?
He said Honey—-it’s the MAN not the RELIGION that sits in the Oval Office.
PlowMan
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:09pmMormanism or Later Day Saints (LDS) is very different than what the Bible teaches. A big difference is that their followers believe they will become gods when they die. It’s also interesting to note that when things get hot (such as when the US government fround upon poligomy) they get another revelation from God.
Report Post »All that said I don’t think this can disqualify Mr. Romney from being president. I am still undecided.
azitdad
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:19pmAmerica’s real enemies are the ones working to shred the Constitution. Mormons believe the Constitution is sacred because it protects the rights, freedoms and liberties of the smallest minority – the individual.
If by a ‘cult’ you mean we worship Jesus Christ, believe the Bible to be the Word of God, then you are right.
You can find differences between any of the Christian denominations, but we aren’t the ones working to strip away your rights to believe what you want to believe. Those people are the Progressives.
Report Post »WhitJWill
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:23pmDifferent from what the Bible teaches????? What would you say inheriting Gods kingdom means, or living a life that God lives, or gaining all that the Father has, or being commanded to be perfect even as the Father in Heaven is perfect…. None of you no anything about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We believe in God the Eternal Father and in his son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
Report Post »martinez012577
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:13am@AZIT AND WHIT
Well I know a pretty good bit about the Mormon faith. No matter how you spin it, you are trying to achieve “god” status. There are verses in the Bible about being tempted to be like “god”.
Genesis 3-4
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Speaking of the Bible. Since you say both the Bible and the Book of Mormon are works by the same god, why would one have archelogical proof and one not. Why would one talk about steel, elephants, great cities, machines, and have zero evidence to back it up but the other book (The Bible) be backed up by facts.
Why would God give us two books like this. One clear and constant. Then one muddled in unprovable things and mistruths.
Like most things, if you do research on your own you can learn the right side of most things and issues. You know I dont mind other faiths for the most part, but I feel the Mormons pray on other Christian faiths.
Report Post »selloursouls
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:11am@ Martinez, I usually avoid getting into these conversations because they are pretty much useless, but your emphasis that the Bible is provable needs commenting. My question to you is: Would you believe the Bible if there was no tangible proof?
I was always under the impression that God worked by faith. Maybe you can show the proof that Christ was resurrected. I have faith he was but the Bible has not been proven in that regard. Prove to me that the Red Sea was parted. Prove to me Christ turned water into wine. Prove to me Christ healed the sick, raised the dead, and took upon the sins of the world. Do not put a standard of proof on another denomination that yours would never meet as well.
Last I checked faith is a key doctrine with all Christianity, but since you work by proof, prove me your faith.
Report Post »remnantofjoseph
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 11:34am@PLOWMAN- speak with some “mormons” and find out what they really believe.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:56pmNewt is getting accused of so many things that other people did, he don’t want to give the anti-Newt people any more ammo. He’s already having to answer for Teddy Roosevelt! LOL I wonder who Romney’s presidental hero is, probably Woodrow Wilson, oh I’m sure if Romney had said that, the Blaze would have already posted it. NOT!
Report Post »THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:15pmYou are the ONLY ONE on all of blaze that has this conspiracy about beck and romney…Your sort of the champion in the special olympics…
Report Post »slr4528
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:22pmRomney’s presidential hero is Reagan. Romney has not spent 40 plus years of his life as a Washington insider and politician. Romney was a governor for only 4 years and he spent the past several decades developing companies and making them profitable in the private sector.
I personally do not see how anyone can accuse Romney as some big government guy when he has only spent 4 years in state government.
If people wan at BIG FAT PROGRESSIVE government…vote for Newt.
Report Post »gogogoff
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:31pmHe already has said John Adams.
Report Post »THX-1138
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:56pmDum dum dum dum dum dum dum…..
Report Post »cloudmcrain
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:53pmIt doesn’t look like anyone watches southpark… But good try :)
Report Post »IamEvilHomer
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:55pmMormon here. I have heard worst.
Report Post »Miami
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:54pmHe needs to apologize and explain himself even though there may be no coming back from this.
Report Post »Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:53pmThey didn’t mention Newt also pulled the “Hey pull my finger on him”, he also fell for the “I got candy on me somewhere, but you got to find it”
He just didn‘t get Newt’s sense of humor.
Report Post »A Conservatarian
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:52pm… and Mormonism is still in the minor leagues of world religions.
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:30pmYeah, but they run circles around you. http://thefamily.com/?p=18949
Report Post »gogogoff
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:33pmThere as as many Mormons as there are Jews in the USA…
Report Post »hopeful in montana
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 2:31am. . . and is the fourth largest religion in the United States. Of course, from a world wide perspective, most Christian religions are still minor players.
Report Post »fly892
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:51pmI love this stuff, I live for it…..
Now I’m getting a headache…………….
The enemy is Obama…….. FOCUS!
Report Post »THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:25pmThe friend of our enemy is our enemy also…Newtromneycon and obama are twins, All three of them were seperated at birth, newt was firstborn so he ate more than his share, and obama was the runt of the litter, he only got the scraps romney and newt gave him.
Report Post »Miami
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:51pmWow I‘ve defended Newt but if he said this I can’t defend that.
Report Post »Rached Madcow SHOW
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:51pmBeck believes in judging a man by his character and progressives are the scourge of the Earth no matter what their religion may be.
Report Post »Mitt Romney :”I think people recognize that I’m not a partisan Republican; that I’m someone who is moderate; and that my views are progressive,” he continued. “They’re going to vote for me regardless of the party label,” he added.
Miami
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:05pmTrue and Paul is to the left of Obama on foreign policy
Report Post »HarmonyCorruption
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:16pmHe’s pro-Constitution of foreign policy, how is that to the left of Obama? Obama got us involved in more conflicts!
Report Post »THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:21pm@miami
Report Post »You got Sr Ron Pauls position in the wrong place, his position isn’t left or right, his position is exactly in line with the Constitution which makes him in the right place, just like our founding fathers intende..You do know who they were don’t you?
HarmonyCorruption
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:33pmon foreign policy, not of. His policies need to read up on, don’t just believe the “isolationist” crap.
Report Post »gogogoff
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:38pmProgressive in 2002 did not mean to people what it means now, just like gay once meant happy.
Report Post »CFL Tea Party
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:41pm@miami
Report Post »Paul is far to the right of Obama and every other GOP candidate. Policing the world is as progressive as you can get.
Miami
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 12:16amFor starters he believes we can deal with all Governments on an equal level, no friends or enemies and is willing to turn his back on our friends. While I agree we should recall some of our long term bases like England, Germany, Spain, Japan, Saudi Arabia and others but not all. But as he was one who blamed our actions as a reason for 9/!1 attack which on its face is insane. Islamist have but one objective, convert or die.
It’s not that they hate our freedom or our way of life but that we have a different way of life and freedom. Ron Paul does not understand that or refuses it as a possibility but takes the Liberal ideology that we are to blame for their hatred of us. Which is naive at best.
I love the Constitution and have sworn to defend it from all enemies foreign and domestic
The founding fathers did not envision the US being the world power that everyone would want to knock off and I do mean everyone. Central & South America, Mexico want a part of the US, Islamist want a part of the US. China wants a part of the US, Russia still wants a part of the US and lets not even think how many others just don’t like us….
As we all well know, thanks to Glenn they’re willing to work together against the US along with those here that are willing to help them as well…1
Report Post »Miss America
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:49pmHmmm… is “oops” adequate enough in this situation?
Report Post »